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Scouts need a nerf


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#1 Parad0xLost

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Posted March 18 2014 - 07:19 PM

With the mix of lag and the scout being overly fast mech, it can be almost impossible to hit a scout. It's incredibly frustrating and aggravating to see a scout tear two C class mechs to bits. MAYBE in a perfect environment, the scout is balanced, but in reality it is unfair. I'm sick of having 4+ scouts in a match and feeling like a tree in comparison, regardless of my mech.

#2 LoC_TR

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Posted March 18 2014 - 07:31 PM

View PostParad0xLost, on March 18 2014 - 07:19 PM, said:

With the mix of lag

Can't balance a game around lag, I will say that that the scout is probably the best early mech. Once you start getting into higher skilled matches where players know how to move, you'll be complaining about all the mechs being OP. If you're playing deathmatch though, the scout rules the field. Which is absurd.

Any C class should be able to fend off a Scout. It has the second lowest health in the game, but it can avoid a lot of damage. You have to put it in a bad position, make that player work against your giant health pool. The lower skilled games are not a good representation of how well mechs are balanced. I would say most high tier players find the scout to be in a good spot, better than it use to be. Either way, if you don't have the scout yet, try it. You'll probably end up dying a fuzzy bunny ton, and fast too.

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#3 leviestrada

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Posted March 18 2014 - 07:48 PM

View PostLoC_TR, on March 18 2014 - 07:31 PM, said:

View PostParad0xLost, on March 18 2014 - 07:19 PM, said:

With the mix of lag

Can't balance a game around lag,Either way, if you don't have the scout yet, try it. You'll probably end up dying a fuzzy bunny ton, and fast too.
This
-------
A good key to kill scouts is: make them fail by moving, a lot!. Knowing that a scout is a "hit and run" mech you should probably know that if they fail the "hit" then the only thing they have is "run" and that is your best opportunity

Edited by leviestrada, March 18 2014 - 07:48 PM.

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#4 OmegaNull

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Posted March 18 2014 - 08:15 PM

View Postleviestrada, on March 18 2014 - 07:48 PM, said:

View PostLoC_TR, on March 18 2014 - 07:31 PM, said:

View PostParad0xLost, on March 18 2014 - 07:19 PM, said:

With the mix of lag

Can't balance a game around lag,Either way, if you don't have the scout yet, try it. You'll probably end up dying a fuzzy bunny ton, and fast too.
This
-------
A good key to kill scouts is: make them fail by moving, a lot!. Knowing that a scout is a "hit and run" mech you should probably know that if they fail the "hit" then the only thing they have is "run" and that is your best opportunity

Pretty much this. That in plying sustained pressure.

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#5 Condor2010

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Posted March 18 2014 - 10:54 PM

I know my thoughts about the Scout won't be implemented, but in general the Scout in Hawken defies logic.  By definition a "scout" anything is a fast, LIGHTLY ARMED vehicle that is designed for recon, not combat.  A scout should not be a front-line combat mech; it excels at other roles. It makes zero sense that a Scout can carry weapons that match a C-class frontline assault type mech in firepower.

#6 Anichkov3

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Posted March 19 2014 - 02:42 AM

Flak Cannon is the second alpha damage (per Shot - 118.8) of Primary weapons and damage surpasses even most Secondary weapons.
https://docs.google....#gid=1436396673
A Mini Flak with the highest DPS (125,7) in the game among all weapons?
How often do you see a scout in the field on the middle distance? That's it - Scout fight from cover and close to the enemy!

#7 Zycat

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Posted March 19 2014 - 09:00 AM

Take away the flak cannon and buff mini flak slightly?

#8 mittens800

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Posted March 19 2014 - 10:54 AM

That already happened in steam patch.  Also it's a shot gun so you need to be close to get all that damage...

#9 Nosmer

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Posted March 19 2014 - 12:39 PM

TOW+flak combo is too strong, that's all. It just takes a ridiculously small amount of time for flak to reload, and with scout mobility it makes an OP combo. Don't believe those who say that playing scout takes skill. Dodging and attacking at the opportune time does, not TOW+flak combo. Miniflak/heat cannon scout is pretty much ok on the other hand.

#10 Bazookagofer

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Posted March 19 2014 - 12:51 PM

It isn't OP. Actually in a real good spot right now. Tow might need some adjusting but that it. Replacing flak wouldn't be bad either.

Edited by Bazookagofer, March 19 2014 - 12:52 PM.

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#11 Aregon

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Posted March 19 2014 - 12:53 PM

View PostAnichkov3, on March 19 2014 - 02:42 AM, said:

Flak Cannon is the second alpha damage (per Shot - 118.8) of Primary weapons and damage surpasses even most Secondary weapons.
https://docs.google....#gid=1436396673
A Mini Flak with the highest DPS (125,7) in the game among all weapons?
How often do you see a scout in the field on the middle distance? That's it - Scout fight from cover and close to the enemy!
It got the name Scout because "Nuclear Glass-Cannon" wasn't as catchy.
I`ll fix it later.

#12 Laharls_Wrath

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Posted March 20 2014 - 07:41 AM

View PostAregon, on March 19 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

View PostAnichkov3, on March 19 2014 - 02:42 AM, said:

Flak Cannon is the second alpha damage (per Shot - 118.8) of Primary weapons and damage surpasses even most Secondary weapons.
https://docs.google....#gid=1436396673
A Mini Flak with the highest DPS (125,7) in the game among all weapons?
How often do you see a scout in the field on the middle distance? That's it - Scout fight from cover and close to the enemy!
It got the name Scout because "Nuclear Glass-Cannon" wasn't as catchy.
now I know what I'm naming my scout

#13 Bringer

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Posted March 20 2014 - 11:32 AM

A-class should all die when you glance at them! What is this? Their hitpoints dare be even a minute fraction of the noble C-class? Absurdity! Madness! Only C-class and their B-class servants should have any place in combat!

A-class are for hauling energy and healing! And creating shields with their debris for their betters to use as cover.

Edited by Bringer, March 20 2014 - 11:40 AM.


#14 Stingz

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Posted March 20 2014 - 11:51 AM

Good scouts are really hard to stop, but you need to back up and minimize the time you give them to shoot you. Don't close in, that's exactly where the Scout wants you. Wide open areas give you the most time to shoot a scout, and they avoid it.

Long fights favor the CRT's higher health pool, if you can make the most of it by dodging and using cover like the Scout.
Coolant only works on other CRTs with worse aim, gotta move to stay alive in Hawken.

If a plan isn't working check what you can do to change it, the same thing over and over leads to the same result.
Just came back from bushwhacking CRTs in Frontline Siege trying to fight my Scout head-on. [MM is quirky]
  Before that I was being bushwhacked by an extremely good scout player on Last Eco.

Edited by Stingz, March 20 2014 - 12:01 PM.

Running directly to/from sniper fire means you'll die tired. Taking cover gives (Ke-)Sabot time to reload.
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#15 Bringer

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Posted March 20 2014 - 11:56 AM

I always boost towards them to smite them with my seething hatred of all things different. The trick to fighting a scout, is to kill it!
What you have to do is ram them so they panic and blow their dodge. Thats when you have them! They try to run sometimes, but everyone needs sleep...

#16 Stingz

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Posted March 20 2014 - 12:03 PM

View PostBringer, on March 20 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

I always boost towards them to smite them with my seething hatred of all things different. The trick to fighting a scout, is to kill it!
What you have to do is ram them so they panic and blow their dodge. Thats when you have them! They try to run sometimes, but everyone needs sleep...

That's an awful idea, closing into Flak range while eating TOW rockets on the way there. You need to keep your distance and avoid giving the Scout breaks from combat.

320 HP is enough to take down 2-3 mechs, if you don't take too much damage. Long fights are where light mechs really start to fold, unless there's a Tech to heal them they die off fast.

Edited by Stingz, March 20 2014 - 12:07 PM.

Running directly to/from sniper fire means you'll die tired. Taking cover gives (Ke-)Sabot time to reload.
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#17 Bringer

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Posted March 20 2014 - 12:22 PM

If you let the scout get away you arent going to kill it. When a scout does its alpha immediately boost towards it, it cant shoot you for a while. Then dodge when its TOW cooldown is up. If you did it right the scout has eaten two TOWs and you have eaten one TOW and a few flak hits. More importantly, you are also now probably angled properly so that whatever corner it had been planning to use for peekabooing is useless for cover and can finish it off with your SMC and hitpoint buffer.

A-class must be ran down and slaughtered with out hesitation! It is the only way. If you let them turn it into a game of speed and distance control they will win! So you must react fast and decisively and kill them while they are planning to enter a remote detination corner peeking TOW duel with you.

This is the great secret of every game, let your strenghts carry themselves, you are playing your weakness.

If you see something more dangerous than you, you must rush it! And then you kill it.

Edited by Bringer, March 20 2014 - 12:24 PM.


#18 Stingz

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Posted March 20 2014 - 12:32 PM

View PostBringer, on March 20 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

If you let the scout get away you arent going to kill it. When a scout does its alpha immediately boost towards it, it cant shoot you for a while. Then dodge when its TOW cooldown is up. If you did it right the scout has eaten two TOWs and you have eaten one TOW and a few flak hits. More importantly, you are also now probably angled properly so that whatever corner it had been planning to use for peekabooing is useless for cover and can finish it off with your SMC and hitpoint buffer.

A-class must be ran down and slaughtered with out hesitation! It is the only way. If you let them turn it into a game of speed and distance control they will win! So you must react fast and decisively and kill them while they are planning to enter a remote detination corner peeking TOW duel with you.

This is the great secret of every game, let your strenghts carry themselves, you are playing your weakness.

If you see something more dangerous than you, you must rush it! And then you kill it.

Just be careful about how far you chase, you might get ambushed by a teammate.
Running directly to/from sniper fire means you'll die tired. Taking cover gives (Ke-)Sabot time to reload.
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#19 OmegaNull

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Posted March 20 2014 - 01:16 PM

View PostStingz, on March 20 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

View PostBringer, on March 20 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

If you let the scout get away you arent going to kill it. When a scout does its alpha immediately boost towards it, it cant shoot you for a while. Then dodge when its TOW cooldown is up. If you did it right the scout has eaten two TOWs and you have eaten one TOW and a few flak hits. More importantly, you are also now probably angled properly so that whatever corner it had been planning to use for peekabooing is useless for cover and can finish it off with your SMC and hitpoint buffer.

A-class must be ran down and slaughtered with out hesitation! It is the only way. If you let them turn it into a game of speed and distance control they will win! So you must react fast and decisively and kill them while they are planning to enter a remote detination corner peeking TOW duel with you.

This is the great secret of every game, let your strenghts carry themselves, you are playing your weakness.

If you see something more dangerous than you, you must rush it! And then you kill it.

Just be careful about how far you chase, you might get ambushed by a teammate.

Or, a good scout will be waiting for you to chase,

Being a scout pilot, let me give you some insight into what you are doing wrong and why I love it.

First, charging right at me is awesome because of 3 things:
1) When boosting, you are unable to fire your weapons
2) Unless you know to jump at the end of your boost (something good players know of) to quickly ready your weapons, I have about 2 seconds to hit you in the face
3) You are a really easy target. Hell, I don't even have to aim much.

If a scout runs away, let them. If you chase, be careful. If someone is chasing me, I am going to find the nearest cover, drop a repair orb (and if they are far enough behind me) drop down to repair. OR I will just sit and wait. As you come around a corner, fire a tow.

Scootin' and Shootin | Ballin' and Brawlin' | Ragin' and Raidin'

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I am Omega Null. The abyss is my home and your last frontier. Welcome to my lair and become my Prey. As I track your scent through this nether,

my mouth begins to water. Your Demise will be quick and wretched.

Enjoy your Pain and Suffering as I tear Limb from Limb. Prepare to meet your Final End.

Member of Violent Resolution


#20 Bringer

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Posted March 20 2014 - 01:41 PM

Sounds like you are just trying to confuse me so i do not kill scout!




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