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So, am I alone on this one?


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#1 Dawn_of_Ash

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Posted October 20 2014 - 04:36 AM

I use a Dualshock 3 controller (aka, a PS3 controller).

Yes, I know that keyboard and mouse are better and yes, I know that the mouse is easier to aim than the analog sticks on a controller but I just can't get used to it. All other games other than Hawken, I find it absolutely fine to adapt to keyboard and mouse. But not Hawken. I've never ever played a game which requires you to mash a key so consistantly (the boost key) while also aiming and shooting and monitoring your map and looking at your heat and...

Needless to say, I think this is why I found it so hard to adapt to the game from my usual console games (yes, I know, PC master race and all...you're not gonna get an arguement out of me). This game is hardcore.

Am I the only one who had a hard time adapting to the game from my usual other games and/or is using a console controller in the game? And to those who have tried both, is there a massive difference between aiming with a controller and aiming with a mouse when it comes to accuracy?

Edited by Dawn_of_Ash, October 21 2014 - 12:17 AM.


#2 Zaxik

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Posted October 20 2014 - 04:53 AM

It's just a matter of habit and skill I guess. I've seen people with bada*s aim using a controller and I've seen people with sh*t aim using a mouse. Hawken is a great example of a game where players with mouse have very little advantage compared to players with controller, because turn cap.
Got few Hawken vids here on my YT.

#3 Zuurkern

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Posted October 20 2014 - 04:55 AM

A friend of mine procrastinated getting into Hawken because he says he prefers controllers for shooters. I recently told him he could do that and now he finally got round to playing a few matches. I haven't asked him about it yet though and he might have just been using keyboard and mouse :P EDIT: He was using keyboard and mouse. I have nothing to contribute :(

I'm absolutely terrible at using controllers for shooters (except for throwing grenades in Killzone 1) and I play with very high mouse sensitivity. So to me personally, using a controller would completely nerf me.

I'm curious about playing you ingame now. Do you have any vids of you playing Hawken? It'd be interesting to see if there is a visible difference.

Edited by Zuurkern, October 20 2014 - 08:17 AM.


#4 Zuurkern

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Posted October 20 2014 - 04:59 AM

View PostZaxik, on October 20 2014 - 04:53 AM, said:

Hawken is a great example of a game where players with mouse have very little advantage compared to players with controller, because turn cap.

That's a good point actually. Now that I think of it, I like my high mouse sensitivity because it makes the turn cap more obvious, which in turn makes movement + aiming easier for me.

#5 Dawn_of_Ash

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Posted October 20 2014 - 05:20 AM

View PostZaxik, on October 20 2014 - 04:53 AM, said:

It's just a matter of habit and skill I guess. I've seen people with bada*s aim using a controller and I've seen people with sh*t aim using a mouse. Hawken is a great example of a game where players with mouse have very little advantage compared to players with controller, because turn cap.

I was confused when people keep stating the name "turn cap". Is a "turn cap" the sensitivty which you turn?

View PostZuurkern, on October 20 2014 - 04:55 AM, said:

A friend of mine procrastinated getting into Hawken because he says he prefers controllers for shooters. I recently told him he could do that and now he finally got round to playing a few matches. I haven't asked him about it yet though and he might have just been using keyboard and mouse :P

I'm absolutely terrible at using controllers for shooters (except for throwing grenades in Killzone 1) and I play with very high mouse sensitivity. So to me personally, using a controller would completely nerf me.

I'm curious about playing you ingame now. Do you have any vids of you playing Hawken? It'd be interesting to see if there is a visible difference.

I once tried using keyboard and mouse to play the game. I couldn't get past the beginner's training mode. :lol:

Regarding ingame videos, unfortunately I don't record because my computer is incompentent of doing anything. To play the game itself is stretching its resources. However, I do know a few videos where I am in, although I'm not sure if it would give you a good estimation of the differences between mouse and controller.

#6 Agile

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Posted October 20 2014 - 05:22 AM

i have posted before about this, i use half controller for movement (left hand) while i use mouse for aiming (right hand).

While you can do this with PS or Xbox controller, carrying the weight in just one hand is not very comfortable. For the "half" controller i use one of my hydra controller and mapped the keys via Hydra MCE profiler.

#7 Agile

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Posted October 20 2014 - 05:26 AM

btw, if you prefer to use a controller. there are ways to do that, using profiler software that allows you to map the controller to keyboard keys and mouse. If you want to know more let me know...

#8 Zaxik

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Posted October 20 2014 - 05:36 AM

View PostDawn_of_Ash, on October 20 2014 - 05:20 AM, said:

I was confused when people keep stating the name "turn cap". Is a "turn cap" the sensitivty which you turn?
Yep. Turn cap is something that most shooters don't have, but Hawken does. It's the thing that forces you to wait 0,5 sec before your camera turns 90 degrees, regardless of whether you use a mouse or controller.

In most games, using a controller is a handicap, because you have a turn cap simply because of the nature of a controller. You can instantly move your mouse certain distance to turn 90 degrees, but with controller you tilt your joystick and have to wait for camera to turn 90 degrees. The lower sensitivity you use on your joystick, the longer you have to wait before the camera turns to the desired destination.

Hawken kinda "blurs" this difference by having a "hard-coded" turn cap, making mouse users unable to instantly aim wherever they want.
Got few Hawken vids here on my YT.

#9 MoltenGorilla

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Posted October 20 2014 - 08:08 AM

Hawken was actually one of the easiest pc control schemes for me to get used to.  I played a lot of a game called gunz when it was big and hawken has quite a similar feel with double-tap boosts and aerial dodging, although at a much slower pace.
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#10 EM1O

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Posted October 20 2014 - 08:10 AM

XBox360 left hand, mouse right. i rest the 'right half' on my right thigh, and carry on. when you have mitts that you can pick up a basketball with one hand, keyboard finger-tangle becomes a real issue.

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#11 Beefsweat

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Posted October 20 2014 - 09:06 AM

I used a dualshock 3 for quite some time (roughly 1900 MMR) and then started using a dualshock 4 before I stopped playing nearly as much. hawken lends itself fairly well to controllers
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#12 StubbornPuppet

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Posted October 20 2014 - 11:38 AM

I hate the keyboard... but I love the mouse.

Soooo... I use a DualShock 3 controller in my left hand for movement and the mouse in my right hand for aiming.  I worked out a button layout for both that left every single control in the game's a quick button press away on either the mouse or the controller... and I've never looked back.

It's surprisingly easy to set up and get used to.  Give it a try.

#13 Hell_Diguner

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Posted October 20 2014 - 04:21 PM

View PostDawn_of_Ash, on October 20 2014 - 05:20 AM, said:

I was confused when people keep stating the name "turn cap". Is a "turn cap" the sensitivty which you turn?
I can't believe you've been on the forums as long as you have and you're still confused about Hawken's turn rate cap.

I guess if you've never really used m+kb on "normal" shooters (CoD, Battlefield, Counter Strike, Portal, etc.) you may never have gotten a feel for what m+kb players call "twitch."

A person with fine motor skills can get used to their sensitivity and field-of-view setting in a game and train themselves to instinctively know how much they need to move the mouse turn a specific amount in-game. If you don't have mouse acceleration on, you can move your mouse that distance however fast you want -ie extremely fast. In Blacklight: Retribution, I can turn 180 degrees very precisely in around a hundredth of a second. If I'm in the zone, I can "twitch" my mouse to bring the reticle directly on a target and fire almost instantly. You see this kind of twitchy gameplay in videos of skilled PC gamers all the time. It's twitchy not because their sensitivity is too high, but because they're actually moving their mouse that fast, intentionally, to look around or aim.

All joysticks (including controllers) have a defined maximum input (stick held all the way in one direction). Whatever sensitivity you use in-game defines the maximum angular velocity your character will turn at maximum joystick input. They have a turn cap by the very nature of their input method.

Hawken is different from most PC shooters in that it forces a turn rate cap for all input methods. No matter how high you set your sensitivity, the game will not allow you to turn beyond a certain angular velocity. It's especially noticeable if you use a mouse and have high sensitivity like the video in the first post of this thread:
https://community.pl...deo-on-request/
Notice how twitchy small movements seem, but his reticle seems to move slower and more smooth when he turns in one direction for a long time. He's hitting the turn rate cap. This actually looks more similar to controller gameplay than mouse gameplay. Search youtube for people who post quickscoping montages and look for videos with minimal editing. Then search for controller gameplay of the same game and you'll see what I mean.

This might not be the best example, but...
http://youtu.be/yVNYg9qyz0Y
Watch one screen closely, then the other closely. There are some points where turning with the controller is obviously hitting the turn cap. At those same points, the m+kb is able to turn so fast it almost looks like a slideshow. This is a large part of why many people insist 60 or more frames per second is a huge advantage. When their adrenaline is really going, some people can differentiate between one frame and the next at 60 fps, so they can actually benefit from 120 frames per second.

EDIT: Inverse mouse acceleration is a little different. Mouse acceleration applies a function (usually linear) to your raw input so your virtual input at high speeds is different than at low speeds. So... one inch of mouse travel at low speed results in a different angular velocity than one inch of mouse travel at high speeds. Something similar for controller input as well, usually it's implemented so holding the joystick at max input increases the virtual input over time by a spline curve similar to an inverse tangent function. "Normal" mouse acceleration increases the high speed virtual input while "inverse" mouse acceleration decreases your high speed virtual input. So with inverse mouse acceleration, there is technically a turn cap, but exceeding the cap actually further decreases your angular velocity.

Edited by Hell_Diguner, October 20 2014 - 04:42 PM.


#14 Hyginos

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Posted October 20 2014 - 04:35 PM

I actually find controllers to be more ergonomic than mouse and keyboard for extended sessions. I would totally use one if I could do well enough with it not to become frustrated at my own ineptitude.
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#15 Massive_Assailant_Stingray

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Posted October 20 2014 - 04:58 PM

Heathens, the lot of you.

#16 eth0

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Posted October 20 2014 - 05:51 PM

I used to have xpadder set up with my wired 360 pad. Usually it's mouse and keyboard, though. I can't find a way to give Hawken direct input from a G13 stick so WASD is just as good for me.
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