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What have we learned in Tournament 12/29/12.


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#1 h0B0

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Posted January 01 2013 - 03:41 PM

Starting a topic for the community to share and discuss what they have learned from last saturdays tournament.

I added all the mechs shown in the end game screens and have come up with these for times used in the tourney.

CRT 29
brawler 27
Berserker 26
scout 25
infil 12
SS 5
bruiser 3
assault 1
grenadier(heat) 1

Wins for Prosk = 7
Wins for Sentium = 6




Bugs:
  • unable to switch teams if observer is in the game.
  • in game VOIP did not work on the private servers.
  • Xacius kept getting exp even with a score of 0/0/0 in games he was not participating in.
Balance:
  • Origin is a balanced map. There are some "meh" spots but it is a lot better than Bazaar.
  • Radar scrambler is completely useless when used against an organized team that communicates and calls targets.
  • Origin is too small to have to use the radar item.
  • MG turret seem to have been the most used offensive item. Is it OP? i do not think so. I seem to have had less issues with MG turrets during the tourney than during regular pug games.
  • We need a way to ban OP rookie internals from future tournaments.
  • Repair orb seems to be the best all round support item. Shield is situational at best.
Esport potential:
  • This tourney has proved that Hawken has some potential as an esport.
  • Origin is a great example of what should take place in an esport type map. Most of the fighting took place on S2 and it made it easy for the casters to focus on the action and not miss much.
Tournament servers:
  • Switching teams should not be restricted in tournaments. Some have suggested to have the teams locked in tournament but i believe that is a flawed idea since the teams should alternate spawns. So have no limitation on team switching will allow players and organizers to take matters in their own hands, furthermore crashing and rejoining a server will send you to a team and the player should be able to go to his team no matter how many admins/observers/players there are.
  • tournament servers should have all mechs/items/internals completely unlocked.
Observer mode:
  • needs first person view with hud. So we can see their crosshair and judge their skills/hax apropriately.
  • needs a hud showing base armors and silos being captured.
  • needs red/white boxes around mechs, or at least something similar to identify players and teams.
  • observers need to be able to move around the map faster.
  • possibly show mechs behind walls, If we base ourselves on the last cast. Lets say a team would take the tunnels to go to silo1or3 the caster could not notice them and miss a big part of the action, being able to see mechs behind walls would increase our awareness of the game and therefore enjoyment.
  • Minimap showing where players are positioned, also usefull for fast travel to spots of the map that are being contested.
  • Recoderding/DEMO fonctionality. Useful for reporting cheaters and providing gameplay footage for clan recruitment, youtube and practicing casting skills.
Other:
  • Central us servers. Or any location for that matter. Maybe our fellow hawkenite would like to have a asia west server or moddle east server... idk?
  • Commentators. Yes im looking at you community. Time to show what you are made of. Do your research on the game mechanics, the participants, the clans, the events and anything basically. (please note i am not bringing down the people who commentated this event, they had a hard task on their hand and did an amazing job. But when i hear a veteran commentating false stuff like vanguard skins on a-classes.....) Next time a tournament is in the air, nominate your favorite community member for a casting spot. Or start commentating your own vids in order to promote your casting skills.
  • Pre-tournament ladder rankings: We need these for community growth and to avoid casting stomp games that might make the community look bad. It might also help avoid bruised egos.
  • Fresh Meat tournaments: Special tournaments for new clans or non established clans to make a name for themselves in the competitive scene.
  • Teamwork > skill. The question of "who is the best player" has popped up a few times. We have seen a lot of very skilled players in the tournament and not all of them could carry their teams. Teamwork and communication are far more effective than raw skill. And this has been demonstrated during the tournament.
Please post a reply including your own observations and suggestions.

Edited by h0B0, January 03 2013 - 08:20 AM.

Click me! I dare you.

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View Post[HWK]HUGHES, on March 15 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

Oh don't always listen to h0B0. Lol.


#2 nonsiccus

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Posted January 01 2013 - 03:45 PM

A detailed map for the observer with the ability to click on an individual to focus on their POV would be nice.
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#3 FenixStryk

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Posted January 01 2013 - 04:11 PM

View Posth0B0, on January 01 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

CRT 29
brawler 27
Berserker 26
scout 25
infil 12
-----
SS 5
bruiser 3
assault 1
grenadier(heat) 1
Rocketeer confirmed Bottom Tier? I'd wager so. Hellfire Tier is a bad place to be.

I'm inclined to take that one step further and say that every Mech below the Infiltrator is Mid Tier at best and possibly in need of positive adjustment, minus the Grenadier which was underused due to a weapon ban, and the Cupcake which should remain as-is due to the nature of its pay-wall.

Looks like the TOW got a lot more love on Origin. When you take the map layout into account, I'd say the logic follows. The GL shines in close-range DMs, but that's not what MA is entirely about.

Automatic weapons got a lot of love too. I'm a little surprised, actually; the spread between Automatic:Burst Top Tiers is 56 to 64* (29+26+1* vs. 27+25*+12). Very respectable representation.

All in all, it was close to my predictions... but not a mirror.


EDIT: *Counting is hard.

Edited by FenixStryk, January 01 2013 - 04:18 PM.

It was fun while it lasted.


#4 RipperT

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Posted January 01 2013 - 04:36 PM

Thanks for the after action report. Answers the questions that came to mind after watching the matches.

Great job man.

#5 Soshomru

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Posted January 01 2013 - 04:51 PM

Thanks h0b0 even though i don't know why I'm thanking you...
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#6 ZanderWild

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Posted January 01 2013 - 04:54 PM

I think preset viewing spots at an observer could get to by command/key/GUI would be nice as well. An instant way for a caster from anywhere on the map to the 3 capture points at least. Or even make it so you just click a spot on the map and you are instantly(as instantly as possible) at that spot.

For private servers- a way to ban weapons/items and internals, making it impossible to launch in a mech that has them equipped  Also a way to limit or fully ban mechs based on class or type(only 1 C class allowed or no more than 3 Brawlers, etc.) Is this really needed for tournaments? No really, since most people involved will stick to the competition rules on their own. It would be nice for other uses however, like sniper only matches, and other fun things that currently are very hard to do.

At the moment I can't think of anything else that hasn't been stated already. Thank you h0b0 for making this thread, I was thinking of doing something like it to start collecting ideas for making things better but had been too lazy to do so.
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#7 BeefC4ke

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Posted January 01 2013 - 05:12 PM

The problem I noticed with SS is that it is too dependent on the player's ping making it pretty useless in comp play if your ping is above 90.

As far as spectating, h0B0 pretty much covered it all. I think the spectators should be able to toggle the player names and have them visible from all distances and through walls.

It would also be nice if there was a way for teams to practice. One way would be with a party system where two partied groups can join a server or by being able to set up a private server of some sort.

TOW, AR, Flak, and GL are the obvious winners when it comes to weapons. The revGL would been up there if it had not been banned. The vast majority seemed to be using TOW/AR. I would like to see more diversity in weapons use for more interesting combat.

I was surprised to not see more HEAT cannon use. I may have just missed it but I only really remember seeing like 3 mechs really using HEAT.
/Merf-isms - What will he come up with next?

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#8 Zeshi

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Posted January 01 2013 - 05:22 PM

I learned that it is probably not going to be necessary to restrict the amount of each weight class in future tournaments. I feared a world where teams would roll all A class or all CRT Recruit but thankfully that didn't happen :)
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#9 PlagueDoctor

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Posted January 01 2013 - 05:24 PM

I think for Online Tournies we need central server so that everyone will have a good ping.

Also, the commentary left something to be desired...


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#10 Zeshi

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Posted January 01 2013 - 05:31 PM

View PostPlagueDoctor, on January 01 2013 - 05:24 PM, said:

I think for Online Tournies we need central server so that everyone will have a good ping.

Also, the commentary left something to be desired...

Central servers would def be nice.

As far as the commentary goes, cmon man it was barely possible to tell what was going on (due to not being able to see names and score) much less provide commentary on it lol. Plus, they has been casting for eight hours straight or something like that. Cut them some slack.
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#11 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted January 01 2013 - 05:35 PM

View PostZeshi, on January 01 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

View PostPlagueDoctor, on January 01 2013 - 05:24 PM, said:

I think for Online Tournies we need central server so that everyone will have a good ping.

Also, the commentary left something to be desired...

Central servers would def be nice.

As far as the commentary goes, cmon man it was barely possible to tell what was going on (due to not being able to see names and score) much less provide commentary on it lol. Plus, they has been casting for eight hours straight or something like that. Cut them some slack.
There were some problems with the commentary, but they are known by the people who organized that part and I assume being handled.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

The Sinful Infil HEAT Cannon Hustler, Cloaking and Smoking, C-Class Swagger, Ballin' n' Brawlin'


#12 Deaod

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Posted January 01 2013 - 06:25 PM

Central servers? You mean servers equidistant from most potential participants? If so, Iceland, here we come. Alternatively, someone needs to build a datacenter on the bottom of the Atlantic ocean.

What would be immensely useful would be dedicated server software.

#13 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted January 01 2013 - 06:28 PM

View PostDeaod, on January 01 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

Central servers? You mean servers equidistant from most potential participants? If so, Iceland, here we come. Alternatively, someone needs to build a datacenter on the bottom of the Atlantic ocean.

What would be immensely useful would be dedicated server software.
He meant Central NA.
The previous tourny was hosted on NA West.

Ideally EU players would play in their own tournaments.

Edited by AsianJoyKiller, January 01 2013 - 06:28 PM.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

The Sinful Infil HEAT Cannon Hustler, Cloaking and Smoking, C-Class Swagger, Ballin' n' Brawlin'


#14 ZanderWild

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Posted January 01 2013 - 06:39 PM

Central US servers? Yes please! Put 'em right here in Iowa and i'll love you all long time. Kidding, kidding. Both East and West servers are about the same for me, right around 100-140.
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#15 BeelzeBuff

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Posted January 01 2013 - 06:48 PM

View PostZanderWild, on January 01 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

Central US servers? Yes please! Put 'em right here in Iowa and i'll love you all long time. Kidding, kidding. Both East and West servers are about the same for me, right around 100-140.

Yea, North Texas here. Both servers are about 80 for me.

On topic to the tourney, i felt that the commentary was very lacking. I couldn't watch or listen without being painfully bored and sometimes confused. I realize they didn't have much to work with, but out of the commentators themselves, one was great, and the other was awful. Sorry, i don't know which was which.

About the mechs themselves, it was pretty boring to see nonstop TOWs and hitscan weapons. Boring to watch, very little variety.

The gameplay itself was of course, amazing. But hard to get the love it deserved through all the negatives.

Edited by BeelzeBuff, January 01 2013 - 06:51 PM.


#16 Warwhale

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Posted January 01 2013 - 06:54 PM

good post from OP

i would also conclude that we need a demo system and ingame clan/player pages for esports

#17 ZanderWild

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Posted January 01 2013 - 07:00 PM

View PostBeelzeBuff, on January 01 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

About the mechs themselves, it was pretty boring to see nonstop TOWs and hitscan weapons. Boring to watch, very little variety.

Most of the lack of variety will(hopefully) be fixed by the eventual addition of new mechs with new weapons.
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#18 h0B0

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Posted January 01 2013 - 07:46 PM

edited the op to add what i consider to be worthwhile suggestions. and stuff i forgot to add initially.

Quote

Minimap showing where players are positioned, also usefull for fast travel to spots of the map that are being contested.
Other:
  • Central us servers. Or any location for that matter. Maybe our fellow hawkenite would like to have a asia west server or moddle east server... idk?
  • Commentators. Yes im looking at you community. Time to show what you are made of. Do your research on the game mechanics, the participants, the clans, the events and anything basically. (please note i am not bringing down the people who commentated this event, they had a hard task on their hand and did an amazing job. But when i hear a veteran commentating false stuff like vanguard skins on a-classes.....) Next time a tournament is in the air, nominate your favorite community member for a casting spot. Or start commentating your own vids in order to promote your casting skills.
  • Pre-tournament ladder rankings: We need these for community growth and to avoid casting stomp games that might make the community look bad. It might also help avoid bruised egos.
  • Fresh Meat tournaments: Special tournaments for new clans or non established clans to make a name for themselves in the competitive scene.

Click me! I dare you.

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View Post[HWK]HUGHES, on March 15 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

Oh don't always listen to h0B0. Lol.


#19 Zeshi

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Posted January 02 2013 - 12:43 AM

Whats really shocking when u look at it is i believe two people accounted for 10 out of the total 12 infil uses (myself and redsdead) 0.0.
Really expected it to be more widespread given its ability to fight so efficiently in the outer missile silos.
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#20 Coldbound

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Posted January 02 2013 - 01:24 AM

View PostZanderWild, on January 01 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

I think preset viewing spots at an observer could get to by command/key/GUI would be nice as well. An instant way for a caster from anywhere on the map to the 3 capture points at least. Or even make it so you just click a spot on the map and you are instantly(as instantly as possible) at that spot.
Best idea so far. Would make spectating the match sooo much easier and more faster.
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