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Privately owned servers?


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#1 R3TRI8UTI0N

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Posted October 28 2012 - 08:53 PM

Wondering if there is any talk of supporting privately owned servers. I think this would be a great opportunity for my community to be able to host servers for this great new game.
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#2 Elix

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Posted October 28 2012 - 08:56 PM

I don't think that'd jibe with a free-to-play game with level progression mechanics. Hosting your own private server would either mean that the mechs can never get upgrades of any sort (or they're all just unlocked for everyone), or Adhesive would be giving you the keys to hack their systems six ways from Sunday.

There are no official private WoW servers even though it's free to level 20, now, for example.

Edited by Elix, October 28 2012 - 08:56 PM.

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#3 D20Face

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Posted October 28 2012 - 09:00 PM

Killing Floor uses levels and servers. It's not F2P, but a significant number of features are cut if you hack it. Enough to discourage most people from using the all level 6 perks mod.

Depending on how they make the servers it really shouldn't be an issue.

Edited by D20Face, October 28 2012 - 09:02 PM.


#4 DarkPulse

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Posted October 28 2012 - 09:14 PM

Well, there's nothing inherently wrong with private servers. I mean, presumably they just "phone home" for stats and progression.

Obviously, mods are going to be a no-go though, but I don't think anyone in here is expecting mods for the game.
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#5 Elix

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Posted October 28 2012 - 09:19 PM

View PostD20Face, on October 28 2012 - 09:00 PM, said:

Killing Floor uses levels and servers. It's not F2P, but a significant number of features are cut if you hack it. Enough to discourage most people from using the all level 6 perks mod.

Depending on how they make the servers it really shouldn't be an issue.
Well, KF also has the white/gray/blacklist system. If you had to purchase Hawken like you did KF or L4D or something, yeah, I could see that working.

But point being, the F2P business model means needing to maintain control of the server infrastructure to keep everything legit.
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#6 R3TRI8UTI0N

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Posted October 28 2012 - 09:23 PM

No I was just saying do something like BF3 does. Except for the game rules changes and un-ranked servers. Also this way we wouldn't have to rely on busy Meteor to admin the servers. Just keep it strict as to what private owners can do, and if the rules are broken, take away their server. You know there will be hackers some day, and we can't rely on Meteor to take care of them.

Also, if there are private servers there needs to be a way to admin the servers (obviously) and display messages. So just some sort of control panel or something, or let some 3rd party make it.
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#7 Elix

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Posted October 28 2012 - 09:26 PM

Aaaaaand all of this is more vectors for exploits against the game.

I understand what you're saying, R3t. I think it'd be fuzzy-bunny-awesome if I could host a private server and have more organized matches with friends I know. I'm just saying, I don't think Adhesive gets a return on the investment of time and resources unless they charge a purchase price for the game.
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#8 D20Face

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Posted October 28 2012 - 09:28 PM

View PostElix, on October 28 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

Well, KF also has the white/gray/blacklist system. If you had to purchase Hawken like you did KF or L4D or something, yeah, I could see that working.
And why wouldn't that system work with a f2p game?

View PostElix, on October 28 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

But point being, the F2P business model means needing to maintain control of the server infrastructure to keep everything legit.
TF2 never existed. It totally didn't prove that a F2P model can make loadsamoney without controlling content.

Did you know there are free hat servers that let you use whatever hat you want? Did you know that nobody plays on them?

#9 R3TRI8UTI0N

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Posted October 28 2012 - 09:30 PM

View PostElix, on October 28 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

I'm just saying, I don't think Adhesive gets a return on the investment of time and resources unless they charge a purchase price for the game.
They could charge server hosts a premium to host their servers, and then private owners pay the hosts. I'm just looking for new opportunities for my community.
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#10 Elix

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Posted October 28 2012 - 09:36 PM

View PostD20Face, on October 28 2012 - 09:28 PM, said:

TF2 never existed. It totally didn't prove that a F2P model can make loadsamoney without controlling content.

Did you know there are free hat servers that let you use whatever hat you want? Did you know that nobody plays on them?
Because TF2 was never part of the Orange Box and was free since 2007.

And because TF2 features level progression on your classes and weapons.

You have defeated me with your iron logic. I will withdraw from society in shame.
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#11 Nitris

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Posted October 28 2012 - 09:38 PM

To be honest even if people had their own dedicated servers and had some kind of mod that gave you bajillions of EXP and Hawken Points all that the main sync server would have to do is check the stats that you have earned and give you the correct amount of EXP and HP.
Hell even have max limits so that even if you somehow tricked the sync server into thinking you killed a million mechs in the last game you'd be capped off at say 10k EXP and maybe 100 HP?
A way to stop this just getting spammed 10k EXP 100 HP again and again is to mark someone who triggers this cap and keep track of their next 10 games or so. If they trigger the cap more than say twice more, they get black listed as being hackers and no longer allowed on anything but private servers.

These are all hypothetical numbers here, but you get the idea. There are ways to safeguard against exploiters and abusers of the system.

Hell why not just turn all progression off for private servers?
Give them full access to the tech tree and let people have FUN.
I would probably never play on an official server again.

It is not like AG or MTR are losing anything-- If anything AG and MTR would only gain MORE, because I'll not earn any HP points and therefore have to buy the MTR points to unlock things.
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#12 R3TRI8UTI0N

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Posted October 28 2012 - 09:43 PM

You make a point, but rather have private servers both ranked and unranked.

I don't understand you when you talk about private owners would have the ability to make mods and cheat the system. I know I keep coming back to BF3, but EA did a great job at somehow keeping server owners away from server files. Only if this could be done would I recommend private servers.

I'm a BF3 admin for 4 servers, and the only system access I have is to PunkBuster screenshots that aren't even worth the -100 kilobytes of data they use.

Edited by R3TRI8UTI0N, October 28 2012 - 09:44 PM.

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#13 Elix

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Posted October 28 2012 - 09:49 PM

View PostR3TRI8UTI0N, on October 28 2012 - 09:43 PM, said:

I don't understand you when you talk about private owners would have the ability to make mods and cheat the system. I know I keep coming back to BF3, but EA did a great job at somehow keeping server owners away from server files. Only if this could be done would I recommend private servers.

I'm a BF3 admin for 4 servers, and the only system access I have is to PunkBuster screenshots that aren't even worth the -100 kilobytes of data they use.
And this is exactly what I'm talking about.

It could be done, yes. That's not the argument. My point is that the amount of development time, resources, and effort into preparing and testing a hardened, hack-resistant server to give to private server hosts probably isn't going to result in huge profits for this small dev team. You can't even compare Adhesive and EA.

If Hawken becomes the next big thing and a million players show up, I think you'll see private servers becoming very much a reality because at that point, the amount of effort needed to scale up to hundreds of thousands of concurrent players is greater than just making a dedicated server and throwing it out into the community for people to use.
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#14 DarkPulse

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Posted October 28 2012 - 09:53 PM

View PostElix, on October 28 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

If Hawken becomes the next big thing and a million players show up, I think you'll see private servers becoming very much a reality because at that point, the amount of effort needed to scale up to hundreds of thousands of concurrent players is greater than just making a dedicated server and throwing it out into the community for people to use.
In other words, people, get the game into the hands of anyone who's even remotely interested. :P

Edited by DarkPulse, October 28 2012 - 09:53 PM.

Reason as my minor ego, and opposite my desire to be a murderer.
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An antinomian theorem of behaviorism, in all of my thinkings.
It's what we call "The Inversion Impulse."

#15 Nitris

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Posted October 28 2012 - 09:55 PM

View PostR3TRI8UTI0N, on October 28 2012 - 09:43 PM, said:

...I'm a BF3 admin for 4 servers, and the only system access I have is to PunkBuster screenshots that aren't even worth the -100 kilobytes of data they use.

See I'm of the opinion that if I am paying for something, it is mine to do with whatever the hell I want. That you only get access to worthless PB screenshots is just humiliating.
Can you turn low grav on your server? Can you give everyone knives only? Can you freeze and strip all weapons from that annoying prat who is team killing, forcing him to either sit there forever doing nothing, or leave your server? Can you stick everyone in a jet fighter each? Can you get plugins for admin tools that let you do all these things and more? Do you even have access to the RCON?

If you answered no to even one of those I'm damn glad I'm not into BF3.


Ok so with this kind of access you could quite easily tweak the game so that it gives massive exp for kills, as an example, but again as I said; It is not an issue if there is no progression sent to the sync server from private servers. This whole thing is avoidable, while still letting people do whatever they want to do.
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#16 SGRock

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Posted October 28 2012 - 10:01 PM

I would very much like the ability to host an official, unmodified, server.

Someplace that my friends and I could play without being camped/sniped/interrupted while we learn the maps and the gametypes.
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#17 DarkPulse

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Posted October 28 2012 - 10:07 PM

They could do a system similar to another game I beta-tested, Section 8: Prejudice.

Basically, they gave a set of "tolerance values" that must be set when the server was started; otherwise, the server automatically unranked itself until the conditions were met. For example, the server would not rank itself if less than four people were playing in it, or if time limits were set too high (over half an hour, I believe) or if friendly fire was off (not that it's on in Hawken, but just an example).

If all the conditions are met, server says "Okay, we're ranked now, stats are enabled" and it takes the stats accordingly. If the server stops being ranked, it naturally disables stats and phones home the experience gains as of that point in time, assuming it's mid-match. (It also naturally sends them at the end of every match as well, if it stays ranked.)
Reason as my minor ego, and opposite my desire to be a murderer.
A coagulated, gloomy thinking in the intelligence, as my major ego.
An antinomian theorem of behaviorism, in all of my thinkings.
It's what we call "The Inversion Impulse."

#18 WreckWren

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Posted October 28 2012 - 10:23 PM

It'd be great to have private servers, then maybe we could have some Aussie servers.

#19 Trolled

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Posted October 28 2012 - 10:34 PM

A good and balanced substitute to actual private servers would be the ability to rent a room on the official servers using MP. The person buying a room would be able to name the game, choose the location, set a password and other settings as well as moderate it to some degree (kick/ban/mute). Such server would be marked as private and could be filtered out in case a server filter is implemented. The feature would present no risk for Meteor because the use of MP means it pays the server bills, and it would attract clans and other sub-communities that are more than willing to pay for their own training grounds.
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#20 LordShade

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Posted October 28 2012 - 10:44 PM

Tribes Ascend did it, I don't see a problem with Hawken doing it eventually.




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