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Why the New TTK Ruins Hawken
#1
Posted February 08 2014 - 07:56 AM
I understand, on some level, why the devs changed the TTK. They wanted to appeal to all the twitch FPS gamers on Steam, I get it. But now, this game is completely not Hawken. It's not. Instead of the good ole' lengthy, simulator-ish duels that we have come to love about Hawken, we now are faced with arcade-y battles that sometimes last only seconds. This new TTK brought forth some changes that, in my opinion, pretty much ruins Hawken.
Sniping. Some will say the new TTK brings tactics and strategy into the game. No. The most used (I would say "only" but the other tactic is that of Alpha Striking. I'll get to that later) new tactic, that I have seen so far, is that of sniping. I believe we are entering the realm of "anti-fun" that Umbre mentioned somewhere. Now, in your fragile little Chinese-rice-paper mechs, you are being sniped at by super powerful weapons from halfway across the map, out of range of your weapons. Because Hawken is a fan of mostly open maps, this is terrible. Because of the reduced TTK, a Slug+Sabot+Slug will normally kill an A class.
A-Class is Forever Ruined. Notice that most teams are comprised entirely of B and C classes. The only A class I've seen in is the Reaper, and that's because the Reaper can sit back and blow away their enemies lounging in relative safety in the back of the battlefield. Infiltrators and Scouts and Beserkers are basically gone. The A class armor just doesn't cut it, in this new Hawken. I am somewhat glad that Scouts aren't OP anymore, but I definitely preferred them being OP than being UP.
Alpha Strikes. Before the new TTK, alpha strikes were bad. But, with the proper maneuvering and aim, the victim of that alpha strike could survive. Not so anymore. If you are alpha striked, that is pretty much the end of you. I cannot tell you how many times I've already been insta-killed by an EOC Raider. Because health is now super low, a single EOC volley + MIRV + Detonator = Death for A class, near death to B class, and about half health for a C.
Decline of Originality. I used to boast to my friends about Hawken. I used to tell them how blindly amazing and original it was. If they said "oh it sounds like Call of Duty" I would verbally slap them. Now, idk. I'm starting to agree with them. I understand that this game is not nearly CoD yet, but it is certainly moving in that direction. This game is becoming much too twitchy for my, and a ton of other player's, liking.
Hawken, in an effort to become more "popular" has completely crapped on everything that was good about this game. Including, and most importantly, the TTK. I like the other things about this patch/move to Steam, the EMP change, the new mech that we have been teased about for some time. But I really do not like the drastic change in gameplay.
After my game loaded from Steam, I joined in and....felt like a complete noob again. I felt like I was learning to play an entirely different game. That shouldn't be the way a player feels after logging back on to his favorite game.
 
#2
Posted February 08 2014 - 08:01 AM
I am tempted to copy this and paste it in every identical QQ thread that pops up in the hops to reduce this spam...and that is EXACTLY what it is.
 
#3
Posted February 08 2014 - 08:02 AM
#4
Posted February 08 2014 - 08:02 AM
A-Class is not ruined, I see A-Class still owning whole servers, just practice and you can do it to (I am practicing!)
This patch is awesome, it is fast as hell and instakills are only possible with items, whic hare limited ingame.
"Things change ... thank god, otherwise we would still hunt animals to survive and forge weapons of stone."
- FakeName

#5
Posted February 08 2014 - 08:02 AM
 LordTemujin, on February 08 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:
LordTemujin, on February 08 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:
I am tempted to copy this and paste it in every identical QQ thread that pops up in the hops to reduce this spam...and that is EXACTLY what it is.
 
#6
Posted February 08 2014 - 08:02 AM
 LordTemujin, on February 08 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:
LordTemujin, on February 08 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:
I am tempted to copy this and paste it in every identical QQ thread that pops up in the hops to reduce this spam...and that is EXACTLY what it is.
#7
Posted February 08 2014 - 08:03 AM
#8
Posted February 08 2014 - 08:08 AM
 Preternatural, on February 08 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:
Preternatural, on February 08 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:
 LordTemujin, on February 08 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:
LordTemujin, on February 08 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:
I am tempted to copy this and paste it in every identical QQ thread that pops up in the hops to reduce this spam...and that is EXACTLY what it is.
https://community.pl...ate-recap-poll/
https://community.pl...vailable-today/
https://community.pl...ut-ruined-imho/
+ the two dozen that have been deleted because its the SAME complaints and they are all being made with A>No logic behind them and B>Bad attitude + negative responses to reasoned answers about their issues.
 NaudyCaudy, on February 08 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:
NaudyCaudy, on February 08 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:
 LordTemujin, on February 08 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:
LordTemujin, on February 08 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:
I am tempted to copy this and paste it in every identical QQ thread that pops up in the hops to reduce this spam...and that is EXACTLY what it is.
That would be great if it wasn't literally identical arguments that all boil down to "I don't want to change" and then it is reduced to the OP belittling and ignoring all arguments against him.
 
#9
Posted February 08 2014 - 08:11 AM
Maybe the reason I hate this patch so much is because I used to rely on my health pool for kills. When you are playing at an average 14 fps and around 170+ ping, you have to take every advantage you can get. Now, with smaller health, I am constantly being destroyed because I can't keep up.
My very first game after the patch was a Siege in my trusty old Grenadier. I topped the scoreboard by 200+ XP. But all games after that I did terrible. Maybe the only way to do well now is to play C classes...is the purpose of this lowered TTK just to get more players to play C classes, and help them shy away from A's?
 LordTemujin, on February 08 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:
LordTemujin, on February 08 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:
 NaudyCaudy, on February 08 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:
NaudyCaudy, on February 08 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:
 LordTemujin, on February 08 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:
LordTemujin, on February 08 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:
I am tempted to copy this and paste it in every identical QQ thread that pops up in the hops to reduce this spam...and that is EXACTLY what it is.
That would be great if it wasn't literally identical arguments that all boil down to "I don't want to change" and then it is reduced to the OP belittling and ignoring all arguments against him.
I am not saying they are right, per se, I am saying that most players agree on the same things. If the majority wants change, and have arguments that multiple people agree to, their argument should be considered.
Edited by Preternatural, February 08 2014 - 08:16 AM.
 
#10
Posted February 08 2014 - 08:12 AM
 LordTemujin, on February 08 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:
LordTemujin, on February 08 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:
 Preternatural, on February 08 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:
Preternatural, on February 08 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:
 LordTemujin, on February 08 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:
LordTemujin, on February 08 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:
I am tempted to copy this and paste it in every identical QQ thread that pops up in the hops to reduce this spam...and that is EXACTLY what it is.
https://community.pl...ate-recap-poll/
https://community.pl...vailable-today/
https://community.pl...ut-ruined-imho/
+ the two dozen that have been deleted because its the SAME complaints and they are all being made with A>No logic behind them and B>Bad attitude + negative responses to reasoned answers about their issues.
 NaudyCaudy, on February 08 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:
NaudyCaudy, on February 08 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:
 LordTemujin, on February 08 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:
LordTemujin, on February 08 2014 - 08:01 AM, said:
I am tempted to copy this and paste it in every identical QQ thread that pops up in the hops to reduce this spam...and that is EXACTLY what it is.
That would be great if it wasn't literally identical arguments that all boil down to "I don't want to change" and then it is reduced to the OP belittling and ignoring all arguments against him.
#11
Posted February 08 2014 - 08:20 AM
People who are enjoying the game are PLAYING the game instead of complaining about it. The same people are attempting to explain the same points to every dissenter because we are forum normals who routinely deal with this kinda fuzzy bunny.
 Preternatural, on February 08 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:
Preternatural, on February 08 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:
No arguments have been thrown against me. And, when you propose an argument to me, I am allowed to have whatever opinion I choose. And, if so many people are having identical arguments, wouldn't it be safe to assume that most of the players agree that the new TTK is not good?
I am not saying they are right, per se, I am saying that most players agree on the same things. If the majority wants change, and have arguments that multiple people agree to, their argument should be considered.
If you want to read some of the arguments made, go read one of the other dozen threads. Go respond on one of the OTHER dozen threads. The alternative is for me to just copy paste THOSE arguments as well.
 
#12
Posted February 08 2014 - 08:38 AM
This patch is just like any other: People play it, hate it, come here on the forums to complain, but in the end they end up getting used to it. Not that I like the extreme low health on a-classes, but I can adapt to it you know?
I remember the first days of the open beta. Pretty much every a-class was a joke next to the others. And why? Because people had no idea of how to properly using them. They were just annoying fast soda cans running around, waiting for something bigger to help them. But in the end, people ended up discovering their perks, and ruled stomped over matches for almost an entire year.
However, it seems now that hawken is running only on extremes. I don't like that. The devs should look back where they started, the REAL hawken.
#13
Posted February 08 2014 - 08:46 AM
#14
Posted February 08 2014 - 08:49 AM
 NaudyCaudy, on February 08 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:
NaudyCaudy, on February 08 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:
Welcome to Competitive play: If You don't know your Role and don't do it properly you are a hinderance
What was the point of this patch? To make the game competitive like it used to be.
If you want to gripe and complain I am ok with it...some people don't deal with change properly. My recommendation was to stop spreading it across 15 threads. Choose one, build on it. Its alot harder to ignore a 50 page thread then 15 3 page threads with a bunch of QQ in them.
 
#15
Posted February 08 2014 - 08:50 AM
You forgot to add camping.
Because now everything is about "tactical position".
Because agressive playstyle is like total yolo (is THAT still a thing?)
How can you reward (k/d ratio) something like that?
#16
Posted February 08 2014 - 08:53 AM
 LordTemujin, on February 08 2014 - 08:49 AM, said:
LordTemujin, on February 08 2014 - 08:49 AM, said:
 NaudyCaudy, on February 08 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:
NaudyCaudy, on February 08 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:
Welcome to Competitive play: If You don't know your Role and don't do it properly you are a hinderance
What was the point of this patch? To make the game competitive like it used to be.
If you want to gripe and complain I am ok with it...some people don't deal with change properly. My recommendation was to stop spreading it across 15 threads. Choose one, build on it. Its alot harder to ignore a 50 page thread then 15 3 page threads with a bunch of QQ in them.
#17
Posted February 08 2014 - 08:54 AM
 LordTemujin, on February 08 2014 - 08:20 AM, said:
LordTemujin, on February 08 2014 - 08:20 AM, said:
People who are enjoying the game are PLAYING the game instead of complaining about it. The same people are attempting to explain the same points to every dissenter because we are forum normals who routinely deal with this kinda fuzzy bunny.
 Preternatural, on February 08 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:
Preternatural, on February 08 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:
I am not saying they are right, per se, I am saying that most players agree on the same things. If the majority wants change, and have arguments that multiple people agree to, their argument should be considered.
If you want to read some of the arguments made, go read one of the other dozen threads. Go respond on one of the OTHER dozen threads. The alternative is for me to just copy paste THOSE arguments as well.
I'm sorry but you are going against youre own argument. You are not adding anything to the topic, just posting youre frustration for the fact that there are too many similar topics (and i'm not saying that youre frustration is wrong in that^^).
If you have already answered other people than just don't answer this specific one. Or, i see no evil in simply auto-quote yourself^^
I'm sure who really have to read these topics will select the one with most activity and posts, so by ignoring the ones you labeled as "copy" you'll achieve more than just saying "it's a copy, i don't want to answer a copy with a copy of my answer" XD
Talking about the patch i really can't see how an increase of the effectiveness of Alphas can do good to a mech-fight simulator.
Cause this is a MECH-FIGHT SIMULATOR, with FIRST PERSON VISUAL, not an FPS. So please, PLEASE, don't make this game a new Call of Duty, PLEASE.
If you want to oneshot people you don't play a game where people are protected by layers of metal.
It would be funny to play a tank game where you die with a single cannon ball? Or a pirate game where you can sink a ship with a single broadside? (i don't know if it is the corrent word, i mean when all the cannons from the same side shot at the same time xD).
Sorry for my english ;P
"Go then. There are other worlds than these"
Jake, Gunslinger
#18
Posted February 08 2014 - 08:54 AM
 Preternatural, on February 08 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:
Preternatural, on February 08 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:
Maybe the reason I hate this patch so much is because I used to rely on my health pool for kills. When you are playing at an average 14 fps and around 170+ ping, you have to take every advantage you can get. Now, with smaller health, I am constantly being destroyed because I can't keep up.
My very first game after the patch was a Siege in my trusty old Grenadier. I topped the scoreboard by 200+ XP. But all games after that I did terrible. Maybe the only way to do well now is to play C classes...is the purpose of this lowered TTK just to get more players to play C classes, and help them shy away from A's?
This patch was like a bucket of cold water in the face. Everyone was used to the large healths and the lonng duels from ascension and invasion, and now they're gone. But keep in mind that almost everything added on patches is often modified. The devs can't ignore the unhappy players, just like they did for a long time on the Technician update. They have to chase a balance between it's playerbase, make something that pleases both twitchy and "ol'hawken" pilots.
For now, try to be open minded to changes. Sometimes they can be healthy
 
					
					#19
Posted February 08 2014 - 08:56 AM
 LordTemujin, on February 08 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:
LordTemujin, on February 08 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:
Back off a minute. Since when do all postings have to be about how great any change to the game are? Is it beyond your comprehension that some people who love the game might still have disappointment in major changes to how the game needs to be played? And why do you feel the need to "argue against" how someone feels? "The game is better now. That's a fact, and you're an idiot for not seeing it. How many times do we have to tell you you're wrong? Why don't you just learn to play in a radically different style than what you've come to enjoy and shut up?" <-This is the kind of response I'm seeing to posts that are respectful in their criticism of the new changes. Belittling and ignoring the arguments of some long-time players who are disappointed.
The developers can do what they want and do whatever they think will grow the game and make them more money. That's business. But don't get in someone's face because they aren't as happy about a major change as you are. Preturnatural has an opinion and you have an opinion. Your opinion isn't more valid just because it's applause for the change rather than disappointment with it.
#20
Posted February 08 2014 - 08:57 AM
 Preternatural, on February 08 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:
Preternatural, on February 08 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:
Wow 14fps and 170 ping? Thats a fuzzy bunny way to play any game in any shape or form or ttk..
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