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Raider too weak?


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#1 Vegueta

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Posted February 27 2014 - 12:17 AM

Am I the only one that thinks Raider is too weak at the moment? the secondary weapon cooldown is horrendous, it has low armor, fuel tank is low. Overall a really weak Mech, What are your opinions on this? I hope for buffs soon cause it's my favorite mech to play.

#2 palad1ne

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Posted February 27 2014 - 12:22 AM

Raider is broken at the moment. Its not fun  playing it. I hope they do something about in the near future.

Edited by palad1ne, February 27 2014 - 12:22 AM.


#3 Claxus

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Posted February 27 2014 - 12:43 AM

Hard to say, really. Sometimes it can so some really scary damage. Crazy burst damage, for sure. Land a primary and MIRV cleanly on an A class, and their HP is pretty much gone. Just mop them up with a little reflak spray. Mediums are tough contenders, but easier shots for Raider. Heavies... Wow, just blitz in a difficult manner to follow while shooting with the grenade secondary Solo any heavy easily.

The cooldown is huge... And he lacks range overall besides the excellent grenades. They're just difficult to hit with.

Well... I think Raider just needs some real concentration and precision. I want to say I'd like him buffed, but... At the same time, Raider can dance around A classes like they were Cs, and if you make your shots right, the burst damage is insane.

I fear that if he were buffed, he'd be too good... Because the main problem is how hard it is to get hits and the cooldown on the secondary, but on the other hand they're extremely rewarding and can tear apart anything, provided you get clean shots.

Would lowering the cooldown on Blitz a bit be a reasonable buff?
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#4 caduceus26

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Posted February 27 2014 - 12:48 AM

The Raider is no longer fun to play. It needs a buff.
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#5 LoC_TR

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Posted February 27 2014 - 01:15 AM

Lowering the CD wouldn't be enough right now. Blitz is just really slow overall, and with a classes wave dashing they can you usually out run you in a marathon. You just don't have the fuel. This mech is rather sluggish in cqc fights, the A classes just flow much better and can dance around more damage than a raider can dish out. It use to be i could bully a A class down if he strayed to close, now they dance pirouettes around me.

I can actually count the seconds in between corsair shot, I can time when to dodge it, I know when i can kill a raider. If they don't decrease the CD on the corsair, it needs a huge increase in speed, or a combination of faster Blitz/lower Blitz CD so that you can actually buy time to get out another corsair. Right now the Raider on an even playing field, 1v1 against pretty much any other mech, will lose 9 times out of 10. My fuel runs out just in time for my corsair to come back up then i die. Van said he is "aware" the raider sucks and they have to change the corsair animation to change the timing on it. Anyways I hope the fix is sooner than later.

EDIT: You double posted btw. There is a whole thread dedicated to how much the raider sucks.

Edited by LoC_TR, February 27 2014 - 01:22 AM.

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#6 Farlanghn

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Posted February 27 2014 - 07:33 AM

Obviously not because there is already several posts about it. No need to double post. Not going to change it any faster.

Edited by Farlanghn, February 27 2014 - 07:43 AM.


#7 Planerunner

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Posted February 28 2014 - 10:03 AM

Honestly, there's nothing worse than lining up a shot with the Corsair, HITTING with it, and having to wait . . . and wait . . .  and wait . . . and wai- oh look you're dead. That about sums up how the Raider works now. Meanwhile the default primary, the ReFLAK, generates heat like a steel mill. So by the time I die, I'm approaching shut down because I'm using the ReFLAK to sustain while waiting on the Corsair to reload. Most of the time, I can get 1 or 2 shots off with the Corsair before finishing off the enemy mech, or getting taken down. But the wait is what gets me.

The worst thing is the feel the mech gives now, post-Ascension. After a duel, I feel like I'm always at razor thin health, near overheat (or actual overheat), all because the Corsair is too fuzzy bunny slow. Heck, I feel more ready to take on another opponent in my fragile Tech than I do with this thing now.

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#8 CounterlogicMan

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Posted February 28 2014 - 11:57 AM

Increase boost speed on blitz by a few m/s, and decrease reload of KLA-mirv by about .15s. I would be very happy with it then. I don't think it should have more armor, or do more burst damage. The only other change I would suggest if the initial suggestions don't do the trick, would be to increase the projectile speed on the KLA-mirv slightly. This would result in the KLA-mirv being slightly easier to use. Buffing the raiders viability.

The raider is an incredible mech right now if you can hit all of your shots, position correctly, avoid overstepping your limits, use blitz at the right time, have appropriate item use, dodge like a beast, and know pretty much every mech and how it plays. Even then, when you check every thing on the list the mirvs reload is still too long, and blitz feels slightly lacking when boosting forward in a fight.

The low health and moderate fuel levels provide a really nice trade off for its potential power. Yet some of its stats, such as reload speed, blitz forward speed, and even the projectile speed of mirv make achieving the mechs highest potential incredibly difficult and in most high level team situations. Making the raider in these scenarios easily replaceable with a much more viable, or easy to pilot, mech.

Edited by CounterlogicMan, February 28 2014 - 12:09 PM.


#9 Ker4u

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Posted February 28 2014 - 12:15 PM

my mad suggestion
Increase hp by 50,  
decrease reload times
Corsair GL 2,75 Mirv 3,25
and increase fuel tank/regen slightly,

Edited by Ker4u, February 28 2014 - 12:15 PM.

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#10 LoC_TR

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Posted February 28 2014 - 01:40 PM

View PostKer4u, on February 28 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:

my mad suggestion
Increase hp by 50,  
decrease reload times
Corsair GL 2,75 Mirv 3,25
and increase fuel tank/regen slightly,

Overpowered! lol.
Keep the health where its at.
Increase speed to just short of the slowest A mech - Or increase fuel tank.
Increase blitz speed.
Lower blitz cd by 10 seconds.
Lower corsair cd by .25 seconds - If you lower corsair anymore more than this it does way too much damage. The corsair is a bomb when you land it, MIRV or KLA, the problem is landing it and buying time between shots.

maybe too much.

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#11 Ker4u

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Posted February 28 2014 - 01:51 PM

View PostLoC_TR, on February 28 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

View PostKer4u, on February 28 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:

my mad suggestion
Increase hp by 50,  
decrease reload times
Corsair GL 2,75 Mirv 3,25
and increase fuel tank/regen slightly,

Overpowered! lol.
Keep the health where its at.
Increase speed to just short of the slowest A mech - Or increase fuel tank.
Increase blitz speed.
Lower blitz cd by 10 seconds.
Lower corsair cd by .25 seconds - If you lower corsair anymore more than this it does way too much damage. The corsair is a bomb when you land it, MIRV or KLA, the problem is landing it and buying time between shots.

maybe too much.
why will it be overpowered? still weaker than current assault imo, weapons are ridiculously slow, with no advantages at all, 10 more damage? lol
. and i made a mistake, forgot about 5% increase, make that 500hp .
Why does it need more speed? it is already faster than slowest a class mech, and slightly below zerker, bliz speed is fine as it it, give it more fuel. Guess we just have really different views on raider in general.

Edited by Ker4u, February 28 2014 - 02:03 PM.

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#12 LoC_TR

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Posted February 28 2014 - 02:07 PM

View PostKer4u, on February 28 2014 - 01:51 PM, said:

View PostLoC_TR, on February 28 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

View PostKer4u, on February 28 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:

my mad suggestion
Increase hp by 50,  
decrease reload times
Corsair GL 2,75 Mirv 3,25
and increase fuel tank/regen slightly,

Overpowered! lol.
Keep the health where its at.
Increase speed to just short of the slowest A mech - Or increase fuel tank.
Increase blitz speed.
Lower blitz cd by 10 seconds.
Lower corsair cd by .25 seconds - If you lower corsair anymore more than this it does way too much damage. The corsair is a bomb when you land it, MIRV or KLA, the problem is landing it and buying time between shots.

maybe too much.
why will it be overpowered? still weaker than current assault imo, weapons are ridiculously slow, with no advantages at all, 10 more damage? lol
. and i made a mistake, forgot about 5% increase, make that 500hp .
Why does it need more speed? it is already faster than slowest a class mech, and slightly below zerker, bliz speed is fine as it it, give it more fuel.

Too much health. Mixed with failsafe you could eat through A mechs no problem. Especially with a 2.75 cd on the KLA. Face hug and bomb them. It's not suppose to be a frontal spearhead like the assault. I like where the damage per hit is on the Corsair so if you were to lower it to that CD you would also have to lower the damage per hit a lot. If you increase the speed or the fuel tank i could at least buy time for my corsair. As far as blitz goes, ya it's fast, but only under the right circumstances. It has to be a straight line. If you have to dodge around corners or wave dash you will slow down a lot. A Classes can just keep going because of how low their fuel regen and dodge cool down are. In the current build I use blitz a lot more in cqc just to walk/run faster, good results when I use blitz in this fashion.

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#13 Farlanghn

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Posted February 28 2014 - 06:35 PM

Jesus guys, only problem with the mech is the corsair! Sure increase other things to mech the mech OP but just remember, it's fun playing a mech like that but anytime you decide to branch out you'll meet another raider eventually and then complain its too much.

Increase Corsair reload speed and the mech is good.

#14 Claxus

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Posted March 04 2014 - 02:16 AM

Actually, as I've become more experienced in the game, I find my main problem are more secondary than the secondary weapon. First is heat, the reflak raises up heat like crazy, and corsair chunks up some heat, too. In most fights, I find myself having to stop on the verge of overheating. That's pretty bad for an 'assassin' mech. When a mech tries to run away, if I can chase them with blitz, usually at that point my heat is too high to finish them off with some mid-range flak shots.

Second is fuel... Sure, Raider draws the border to a Type-A, but his fuel always just runs out so quick. The issue here is that Raider really needs to be on the move to stay alive, and it also counteracts with blitz, because you usually run out of fuel to maximize its use during a conflict.

Last thing is more of a wish, but I feel the EOC is just so pointless on Raider... I think he could do with a vulcan or AR for a prestige weapon, they would really compliment his corsair's versatility and make Raider playable as a close-midrange unit.

But I really fear he'd be overpowered if they buff him. Maybe shave off half a second from the corsair, but it's already a huge burst if damage that could easily lose control into being OP. Right now he can basically OHKO (before they react) some type As with clean shots.
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#15 Nihiru

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Posted March 04 2014 - 10:16 AM

View PostClaxus, on March 04 2014 - 02:16 AM, said:

Actually, as I've become more experienced in the game, I find my main problem are more secondary than the secondary weapon. First is heat, the reflak raises up heat like crazy, and corsair chunks up some heat, too. In most fights, I find myself having to stop on the verge of overheating. That's pretty bad for an 'assassin' mech. When a mech tries to run away, if I can chase them with blitz, usually at that point my heat is too high to finish them off with some mid-range flak shots.

Highly agreed, but...

Quote

But I really fear he'd be overpowered if they buff him. Maybe shave off half a second from the corsair, but it's already a huge burst if damage that could easily lose control into being OP. Right now he can basically OHKO (before they react) some type As with clean shots.

Think of it like this. If they make the Corsair, which is most of the Raider's damage, shoot faster, it's less time you are using the ReFlak to kill your target. Raider should be functioning like this: it comes in, finds a target and takes it down quickly, then gets the hell out. ReFlak isn't helping to do that very well because it's very high heat gen and rather low damage, all of Raider's damage comes from the Corsair.

Raider is extremely squishy as is. I'd rather they increase its strength in burst damage and hit-run than try to round it out by reducing heat gen on ReFlak or increasing armor or something of those lines

#16 Claxus

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Posted March 04 2014 - 02:17 PM

I see, that's a good point. The other problems would be less prominent with a slightly faster secondary reload rate or a little more damage, without changing anything else about the Raider.
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#17 Zanozus

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Posted March 04 2014 - 02:35 PM

Quote

[font=play, helvetica, arial, sans-serif]all of Raider's damage comes from the Corsair.[/font]

Corsair KLA DPS is the lowest in the game except Healing Torch, even Hellfires have higher DPS than Corsair.

Edited by Zanozus, March 04 2014 - 03:18 PM.


#18 Zanozus

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Posted March 04 2014 - 03:09 PM

TOW (NO, NO, NO It's not OP, It's my favorite weapon, don't nerf it) *sarcasm*
125 Max damage per shot
52,785 Min damage per shot
55,5 Damage per second
2,25 Refire Rate
10,5 Heat per shot
4,0 Start of splash
13,8 End of splash
manual detonation, straight trajectory
GL (NO It's not OP too, PRO players love this weapon) *sarcasm*
125 Max damage per shot
50,0 Min damage per shot
50,0 Damage per second
2,5 Refire Rate
9,75 Heat per shot
4,62 Start of splash
16,1 End of splash
manual detonation, ricochet, arcuate trajectory
Corsair GL (OP ! OP ! It kills so many newbies. They will cry) *sarcasm*
120 Max damage per shot
51,0 Min damage per shot
32,0 Damage per second
3,75 Refire Rate
13,0 Heat per shot
4,66 Start of splash
15,4 End of splash
arcuate trajectory
Corsair MIRV (Definitely, It's OP. Look at the Damage per shot. It's larger than TOW/GL by 5 points !) *sarcasm*
130 Max damage per shot
104,0 Min damage per shot
34,773 Damage per second
3,75 Refire Rate
13,0 Heat per shot
0,4 Start of splash
2,2 End of splash
not hitscan

https://docs.google....#gid=1436396673

Edited by Zanozus, March 04 2014 - 03:21 PM.


#19 Claxus

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Posted March 04 2014 - 03:32 PM

I'm pretty sure he was referring to only Raider itself... Compared to other weapons, it may be outclassed, but for Raider it really is the main source of his damage. Though I suppose that's true for all the mechs, it partains to Raider even more because of the heat and damage of his primary, which essentially is just a bit of damage topping or for finishing off an enemy. He really needs the burst damage of his secondary.
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#20 Nihiru

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Posted March 04 2014 - 06:17 PM

View PostClaxus, on March 04 2014 - 02:17 PM, said:

I see, that's a good point. The other problems would be less prominent with a slightly faster secondary reload rate or a little more damage, without changing anything else about the Raider.

Indeed. I would much rather have the Corsair reload rate buffed over anything else at the moment, it would provide a small utility buff to the Raider as well because now they can also utilize the grenade launcher better to bide their time until Blitz is off cooldown.

View PostClaxus, on March 04 2014 - 03:32 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure he was referring to only Raider itself... Compared to other weapons, it may be outclassed, but for Raider it really is the main source of his damage. Though I suppose that's true for all the mechs, it partains to Raider even more because of the heat and damage of his primary, which essentially is just a bit of damage topping or for finishing off an enemy. He really needs the burst damage of his secondary.

This. I don't know where he got off thinking I said Raider's Corsair damage is amazing, I said Raider's primary burst damage is from Corsair-MIRV. If its rate of fire was buffed, it means less time generating heat by pelting the enemies with the ReFlak. For T-32 Bolt or EOC, I can't comment because I am completely incompetent with both, but looking at the spreadsheet alone, it looks like they aren't much better.




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