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RAIDER Weapons Discussion


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Poll: Raider Weapons (104 member(s) have cast votes)

What's your favorite weapon for the Raider?

  1. Re-FLAK-35 (20 votes [19.23%])

    Percentage of vote: 19.23%

  2. Corsair-KLA (67 votes [64.42%])

    Percentage of vote: 64.42%

  3. T32-Bolt (17 votes [16.35%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.35%

As the Corsair is a duel mode weapon which do you prefer using?

  1. RPG (28 votes [26.92%])

    Percentage of vote: 26.92%

  2. MIRV (76 votes [73.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 73.08%

As the corsair is unique; how would you envision the weapon's range combination?

  1. Leave it as is and change nothing. RPG medium range / MIRV short range (64 votes [61.54%])

    Percentage of vote: 61.54%

  2. RPG medium range / MIRV medium range (5 votes [4.81%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.81%

  3. RPG medium range / MIRV long range (5 votes [4.81%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.81%

  4. RPG short range / MIRV short range (1 votes [0.96%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.96%

  5. RPG short range / MIRV medium range (1 votes [0.96%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.96%

  6. RPG short range / MIRV long range (2 votes [1.92%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.92%

  7. RPG long range / MIRV short range (8 votes [7.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.69%

  8. RPG long range / MIRV medium range (10 votes [9.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.62%

  9. RPG long range / MIRV long range (2 votes [1.92%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.92%

  10. Something other than the above {add it below} (6 votes [5.77%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.77%

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#1 Spliff_Craven

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Posted March 05 2013 - 09:00 PM

Currently the Raider weapons are as follows

ReFLAK-35 + T32-BOLT are Short Range Shotguns
Corsair-KLA is a Short + Medium Range RPG and "MIRV"

My problem is with the Corsair-KLA.

A MIRV should work like this:

Posted Image

By definition a MIRV is a long range weapon that may strike as a Single drop or Multiple AOE

A 90 meter Distance is too short for this weapon to be realistic.

I would rather see this as 2 stage long range weapon with a Clusterbomb style AOE.
  • One right click to launch {single projectile}
  • Second click to disperse the payload.
  • A functional reticle change to accomodate range finding would also be nice.
I'm a player that likes versatility. To me this mech is almost complete.

There really is only one thing I'd change about the RAIDER's loadout.
Hand's down it's the MIRV range and function.

What do you all think?

Edited by Spliff_Craven, March 05 2013 - 09:03 PM.


#2 ReachH

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Posted March 05 2013 - 09:11 PM

Everything on the mech feels good. Right projectile speeds, right ranges on the weapons, being able to switch modes while reloading. I would like some data on the chargable flak and some more information on the miniflak clone. I can envision myself switching to EOC permanently and playing it as a CRT jack-of-all-trades Mk II.

Ability feels really good, maybe too good. Lets not forget that you can basically dodge around like a madman, while charging EOC on a 675hp mech. How is that fair?

Posted Image

Edited by ReachH, March 05 2013 - 09:15 PM.

View Post[HWK]HUGHES, on October 23 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

Development happens.


Posted Image


#3 145154151164145

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Posted March 05 2013 - 09:25 PM

Secondary does WAAAY to much damage in MIRV mode. Actually, I think it does the same in both modes, but its to easy to hit with as MIRV.

Edited by 145154151164145, March 05 2013 - 09:27 PM.


#4 Dreizehn

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Posted March 05 2013 - 09:26 PM

View PostSpliff_Craven, on March 05 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

Stuff

Corsair works pretty well as it is, though possibly too damaging. I wouldn't get my panties in a bunch over it being called a MIRV despite not really being one. I'd criticize their naming sense rather than the weapon itself.

#5 Aims

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Posted March 05 2013 - 09:54 PM

Can't say too much yet but I'll just put this out there - go fuzzy bunny yourself Reaper, the Raider is in town.

Edited by Aims, March 05 2013 - 09:54 PM.


#6 ReachH

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Posted March 05 2013 - 10:05 PM

The lovely individuals at SK have given us numbers for the Corsair. The GL does 175 (TOW 180 direct hit) and the mIRV does a whooping 240, comparable to Hellfires.

View Post[HWK]HUGHES, on October 23 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

Development happens.


Posted Image


#7 ShadowWarg

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Posted March 05 2013 - 10:39 PM

View PostReachH, on March 05 2013 - 10:05 PM, said:

The lovely individuals at SK have given us numbers for the Corsair. The GL does 175 (TOW 180 direct hit) and the mIRV does a whooping 240, comparable to Hellfires.
Its probably because of the scatter shot and limited shot distance that they made it hurt a lot.

Also I wish the Reflak had more range to it, but thats just me. I like it better than the bolt.

Edited by ShadowWarg, March 05 2013 - 10:40 PM.


#8 ReachH

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Posted March 05 2013 - 10:44 PM

reflak has better range than the flak because of its tighter spread. Plus you can fire it while blitzing. Gonna come back to the bolt after some spread reduction levels and see how it feels then. Blitz also feels kinda wasted on peekaboo.

Edited by ReachH, March 05 2013 - 10:45 PM.

View Post[HWK]HUGHES, on October 23 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

Development happens.


Posted Image


#9 Amisto

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Posted March 05 2013 - 10:50 PM

I don't like the visual effects of the KLA, seem rather lac-luster in terms of impressiveness.  The weapon however, is pretty good, most it is just versatile as hell, you are coming up to the engage, at medium distance, you get your aoe long range grenades out, and start doing damage, then you get in close, switch to Mirv mode, and finish them off.  It's awesome.

#10 Spliff_Craven

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Posted March 06 2013 - 12:38 AM

But right now the secondary shot {the MIRV} is more like a freaking shotgun.

I say change the dynamics of the thing. MAKE IT AN ACTUAL MIRV.

Make it 2 stages: 1 to launch 2 to drop an AOE like a clusterbomb.

View PostDreizehn, on March 05 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

Corsair works pretty well as it is, though possibly too damaging. I wouldn't get my panties in a bunch over it being called a MIRV despite not really being one. I'd criticize their naming sense rather than the weapon itself.

I could be persuaded to go with that.

However, I would prefer an actual MIRV over this limited range shotgun.

Fix the gun or change the name.

Edited by Spliff_Craven, March 06 2013 - 12:32 PM.


#11 Aims

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Posted March 06 2013 - 04:34 AM

How bout: Keep awesome weapon as it is - call it something that isn't MIRV.

Seriously the thing reminds me of the Pulse Rifle from Alien vs Predator 2  in terms of versitality. That is a damn good thing.


QUESTION: Flak or reflect-o-rifle?

Edited by Aims, March 06 2013 - 04:42 AM.


#12 ShadowGTR

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Posted March 06 2013 - 08:02 AM

Going off the name alone (MIRV), I would have envisioned it to be a medium to long range weapon. But the fact that it is short range (<90m if I recall h0b0's tests correctly) is fine by me.

From what I've seen so far, this mech does exactly what it says it's supposed to do: Be a close range fighter mech. Right off the assembly line, the ReFlak and Corsair MIRV thrive at close range. While the Corsair RPG can be used for a bit more distance, it isn't effective at long range. The EMP (as much as it is my mortal enemy...) fits this close range fighter style as well. Get in, tear up your enemy. If things start to go south, hit 'em with the EMP and finish them off (or you can lead with the EMP, but I prefer to save it as a last resort). Finally, it's ability allows it to close the distance while putting pressure on it's target. I didn't get a chance to try out the T32, so I can't speak for that yet.

In my opinion, I feel the Raider is just fine the way it is. Distance mechs can still cause it trouble (especially SS and Reaper). If the Raider doesn't have Blitz ready, the pilot has to work to get in close without getting destroyed in the process. And for the other close range mechs, the only one I see having any real problems against it would be the Flak Scout (but I tend to see more Heat Scouts, so I'm not sure how widespread a problem this could be). Admittedly, I am a bit biased in favor of the Raider, but I feel it gives the B-Class a really good close range mech. The A-Class has the Flak Scout, and the C-Class has the Flak Brawler. It's good to finally have a close range B-Class which has a nice mix of both A and C classes. Especially for those who would prefer to not be the SS' chew toy (A-Class), and aren't masters in Fat Ninja style (C-Class).

Edited by ShadowGTR, March 06 2013 - 08:32 AM.

Posted Image


#13 TheChaffeemancer

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Posted March 06 2013 - 08:12 AM

Charged Bolt is 120 damage, uncharged is 70 (or was it 75? Kiwi can't remember at the moment)
Beep beep, Kiwi's a Chaffeemancer.

#14 ExtremeUnction

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Posted March 06 2013 - 08:42 AM

The MIRV hits ridiculously hard with a well placed shot. It reminds me of the Flak Cannon in UT. I would almost say it hits too hard but I'm not so sure yet. The air-burst aspect doesn't really seem to matter at all. The spread gets so wide that it might as well airburst because it's not going to do much else unless it ricocheted too. It really is a high powered explosive shotgun.

#15 Brando01

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Posted March 06 2013 - 08:44 AM

I like the Bolt over the Re-flak as in combination with the Corsair you have major heat issues and the Bolt at least settles this down some.  Both guns are a lot of fun though.

#16 burns1124

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Posted March 06 2013 - 09:19 AM

I only got to play a few games last night before my farming partner in PoE dragged me away, but I have some first impressions as I only really played the raider (my rating reflects using a completely new mech, gonna have to break out the 25s soon to keep it over 1600 -.- I'm such a scrub lol)

Reflak is interesting, it's still a medium range at best weapon, but I really like the ricochet mechanic, and I think in time, it could really add to the game with it's ability to hit targets behind cover with poke damage.  It's heat feels about right, spam it too much and you over heat, coordinate burst fire with teammates will net you some nice assist exp.  Sadly I only got to level 3 so I didn't have time to work out things with the charge flak.

Corsair (disclaimer, I really, really, like this weapon)  

RPG mode:  I keep wanting to air detonate it, that's literally my only gripe.  It's so damn gratifying getting full hits/kills with this mode, it's like christmas, damage feels just a might low, but then again I missed at least 75% trying to longbow people behind cover/on top of AA in origin (I'm looking at you [HWK] Defty, you will come to fear my snipe RPGs >:D)

MIRV (I call it the Boomstick, cause thats what it is.): People are gonna cry this is OP all damn day.  People are going to cry that it needs more range, or should have remote detonation, etc etc.  This mode of the weapon is, freaking amazing.  It's a great finisher for that last 3 bars on an enemy bunny hopping you, but I think theres no drawback to just hugging someone with it and just gouging their HP, maybe a bit more pilot error element needs to be added, as I scored many kills nearly on top of enemies with the Boomstick, but didn't seem to take the damage you would unloading a TOW or HFs into someone under 10M away.  Maybe slight rebalance, lower the damage a tad unless the full spread lands, just getting in as close as possible and hitting them with it all seems a little cheap, but only a little.

EMP: Eh, it's been nerfed pretty hard, and having refused to use it up until now, I have to learn how to make it work for me.  Does feel a bit cheap to sneak up on someone EMP them, then unload a MIRV'd Corsair into their face while they can't do anything, but that's kinda the point.

Blitz: Increased movement speed is nuts, I think it's just a bit too fast, especially when optimization points (when are these getting redone??? I hope soon) for level 25s come into play.  Shooting while boosting, meh, cool mechanic, not really the best part of the ability unless you've got a MIRV ready to shove up their thruster exhaust.  Once again its too early for me to call, but it "feels" like it's a fun ability, and powerful, while it may need balancing, I think it's a good start.

TL;DR:  I think this mech is going to add to the game more than it takes away.  I think once things settle down and there isn't 80%+ players spamming raiders we're going to see the folks that reallly like cqc using this, and flak scouts to punish and harrass the long range chassis like SS and Rkteer, given they can coordinate with their teams and set up good flanks.  I do think some things may need further tweaking and rebalancing, but over all I think we've got a game that has legs again, and this patch has made me WANT to play again, not just log in for an obligatory 5-6 games to kill time.  Thanks ADH, keep it up!

#17 Spliff_Craven

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Posted March 06 2013 - 09:30 AM

I see alot of people would like the ability to "Airbomb" the RPG {I would like to myself}

This would also make sense for the MIRV to do this as well.

The MIRV should be long range with the ability to "Deploy" and detonate. this would be perfect for assulting an AA or area denial.

For the moment a MIRV is just a glorified high-powered shotgun.
It should be renamed or make it do what a MIRV does.

#18 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted March 06 2013 - 10:52 AM

View PostSpliff_Craven, on March 06 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:

I see alot of people would like the ability to "Airbomb" the RPG {I would like to myself}
Are we reading the same posts...?
You seem to be exercising some serious wishful thinking...

Quote

This would also make sense for the MIRV to do this as well.
Actually, no. No it wouldn't.

Quote

The MIRV should be long range with the ability to "Deploy" and detonate. this would be perfect for assulting an AA or area denial.

For the moment a MIRV is just a glorified high-powered shotgun.
It should be renamed or make it do what a MIRV does.
You are way too hung up on what the name means in real life.
If you're going to complain about inconsistency in names and how they don't match up with how weapons operate in real life, then you better start complaining about the Flaks, the Vulcan, the GL, and the TOWs. Arguments could even be made for Hellfires, HEAT, SMC, AR, SA Hawkens, the Sabot, etc.
Fidelity to how things actually are in real life is not a strong point of Hawken.

Then you are totally ignoring the purpose of what the MIRV is supposed to do. It's supposed to act like a glorified shotgun. That's the whole point of it and being on the Raider.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

The Sinful Infil HEAT Cannon Hustler, Cloaking and Smoking, C-Class Swagger, Ballin' n' Brawlin'


#19 Spliff_Craven

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Posted March 06 2013 - 12:26 PM

AJK you are so opinionated... Some may care what you think... I for 1 do not.

I will give you kudos for living up to your name... You do come off as a kill joy.

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on March 06 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

Then you are totally ignoring the purpose of what the MIRV is supposed to do. It's supposed to act like a glorified shotgun. That's the whole point of it and being on the Raider.

Obviously you do not know what a MIRV is.
Let me educate you.

As words cannot appear to express what one needs to know about this complex yet facinating subject.
I will attempt to illustrate through pictures

ThIs is a MIRV in action:Posted Image

This is what an ICBM MIRV does {BOEING LGM-118A PEACEKEEPER}

The Peacekeeper was the U.S. Air Force's most powerful, accurate and technologically advanced intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) when it served as a deterrent from 1986 to 2005. The USAF began planning for a missile to replace Minuteman ICBMs in 1972, and named the projected weapon "missile X," or MX. It would use the latest targeting technology to deliver many independently targeted nuclear warheads by each missile. The ability to deliver several warheads on one missile is known as MIRV, or Multiple Independently targeted Re-entry Vehicles. MX eventually was named Peacekeeper and designated LGM-118A.

Posted Image

This is a ballistics diagram of what a MIRV does:

Posted Image

This is what's in a MIRV and a definition of what it does:
{NOTE: A MIRV splits off from the main missile to hit it's target. The current Hawken model does not. It spreads from the gun therefore it it not a MIRV}

Posted Image

Even borderlands knows how a MIRV operates:

Posted Image
And another game {SWAT: Aftermath} illustrates a MIRV properly.

Posted Image

Clearly It is not designed to be a glorified shotgun.

I won't say it isn't a fun toy. It just isn't a MIRV.
A MIRV would be an excellent addition to this game.

Just make the MIRV feature work like one.

Edited by Spliff_Craven, March 06 2013 - 12:36 PM.


#20 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted March 06 2013 - 12:30 PM

Congratulations on ignoring gameplay and balance completely.
You know, the part that matters.

Edited by AsianJoyKiller, March 06 2013 - 12:30 PM.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

The Sinful Infil HEAT Cannon Hustler, Cloaking and Smoking, C-Class Swagger, Ballin' n' Brawlin'





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