HAWKEN servers are up and our latest minor update is live!
Forgot Password? SUPPORT REDEEM CODE

Jump to content


Slight change to Hellfires...


  • Please log in to reply
92 replies to this topic

#1 m3talc0re

m3talc0re

    Advanced Member

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 514 posts

Posted April 08 2013 - 05:01 PM

Right now, if someone strafes right when you shoot your hellfires, the rockets come directly out of their tubes at an angle impacting anything right there in the way. It's stupid and frustrating.

How about instead, make hellfires launch, go complete straight for a half second or so THEN arch and fly towards their targets. Like any normal missile obeying normal laws of physics would do...

#2 Beefsweat

Beefsweat

    Advanced Member

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,845 posts
  • Locationsan diego, usa

Posted April 08 2013 - 05:29 PM

+1, give the missiles a "soft launch", javelin-style to aid tracking. Simple strafing is way too effective against HF's.

Edited by Beefsweat, April 08 2013 - 05:29 PM.

Posted Image

#3 PScribs

PScribs

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 132 posts
  • LocationThe AA. With, or without you.

Posted April 08 2013 - 05:34 PM

Normal missiles aren't used in CQC.  Half a second with Hellfires would be (roughly) 20-30 meters and would leave the poor Bruiser with just it's Point-D in close range.  Just like last month.

I agree that the Hellfires need a small nerf after the latest buff (and this is coming from a frequent Hellfire user), but the homing seems about right now.  It's still pretty easy to dodge if you time it right as they seem to track towards where a mech would end up after a full dodge.  And you do get the warning the moment they are launched.

I would be able to accept a small damage or reload nerf (small nerf....because I'm a frequent Hellfire user ;)), but reverting the homing to before the latest buff would just turn it back into a wide spread MIRV in CQC again.
Mech Internals - Malibal Lotus P151HM: i7-2670QM - GTX 560M, 8GB DDR3 @ 1600MHz, 120GB SATA III SSD
Posted Image
Exercise Caution - I only suck 30% of the time.  Care to play the odds?

#4 RennZero

RennZero

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 20 posts

Posted April 08 2013 - 06:01 PM

Well I just dumb fire my rockets in CQC anyway, so I don't see the problem there.... At that range you don't really have time to get a lock. And yeah it is kind of silly when you shoot at an opponent half a map away but because he was strafing at the time, your missiles fly sideways into the wall next to you. There is really no reason for that at all!

#5 YellerBill

YellerBill

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 708 posts
  • LocationConstructing Additional Pylons

Posted April 08 2013 - 06:03 PM

View PostRennZero, on April 08 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

Well I just dumb fire my rockets in CQC anyway, so I don't see the problem there.... At that range you don't really have time to get a lock. And yeah it is kind of silly when you shoot at an opponent half a map away but because he was strafing at the time, your missiles fly sideways into the wall next to you. There is really no reason for that at all!

I wish the missiles had a tad more terrain avoidance when locked on, but dumb fire is indeed excellent for CQC.

Quote

I was not dead... I was only sleeping.

#6 Leonhardt

Leonhardt

    Rawr

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,820 posts
  • LocationFlorida

Posted April 08 2013 - 06:31 PM

I do not agree. They already have good enough tracking. If they were any better then I don't see how there would be any skill to using them at all nor any way to really outplay them as an A class mech. As they are if you know how to use them based on the tracking system they are extremely deadly. All it really means is you have to think more about your shot. In place of actual aiming this is a sort of balance so I don't see why they should have better tracking.

Edited by Leonhardt, April 08 2013 - 06:32 PM.

Posted Image


#7 m3talc0re

m3talc0re

    Advanced Member

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 514 posts

Posted April 08 2013 - 07:23 PM

I'm not talking about better tracking. I'm talking about making them shoot straight out for half a second so they don't come out of the tubes sideways and into a damn wall. They're hella-easy to avoid right now, sometimes without even having to try. Lets say you're on the ground and someone is on a bridge in front of you. You lock and fire, the missiles end up hitting the bridge simply because at your angle, the bridge blocks the flight path. If you aim up to counter it, the missiles still hit the bridge because the missiles shoot right out of your mech at an angle rather than following a forward velocity. TOW doesn't really suffer this problem. The following diagram is just a very simple example, but you get the idea. This same idea applies to, and is worse, when it comes to horizontal obstacles.

Posted Image

#8 ShadowWarg

ShadowWarg

    Advanced Member

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,384 posts
  • LocationIn the shadows behind you

Posted April 08 2013 - 07:59 PM

Well here is the thing. This is how they were originally at the start of open beta. But then people kept complaining about how useless they were so that is why we have what we have today. Personally I agree that this (the original) way is better. But I also think that the HellFire should be multi-target (divided(weak) damage in exchange for more crowd control) but that's just me.

You know, multiple missiles for multiple targets? Logic? The way they are now, you minus well just have one homing tow Missile.

Edited by ShadowWarg, April 08 2013 - 08:02 PM.


#9 Aims

Aims

    Advanced Member

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,539 posts
  • LocationAustralia

Posted April 08 2013 - 08:46 PM

But... half the fun of Hellfires is learning the angles they need to be fired at in order to curve them around geometry?

This sounds like it would make them even easier to use than they currently are.

#10 Leonhardt

Leonhardt

    Rawr

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,820 posts
  • LocationFlorida

Posted April 08 2013 - 09:01 PM

View Postm3talc0re, on April 08 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

I'm not talking about better tracking. I'm talking about making them shoot straight out for half a second so they don't come out of the tubes sideways and into a damn wall. They're hella-easy to avoid right now, sometimes without even having to try. Lets say you're on the ground and someone is on a bridge in front of you. You lock and fire, the missiles end up hitting the bridge simply because at your angle, the bridge blocks the flight path. If you aim up to counter it, the missiles still hit the bridge because the missiles shoot right out of your mech at an angle rather than following a forward velocity. TOW doesn't really suffer this problem. The following diagram is just a very simple example, but you get the idea. This same idea applies to, and is worse, when it comes to horizontal obstacles.

I can't fire my Corsair at all the same exact angles as a TOW. I can't fire a TOW at the same extreme angles as a GL. So I don't see why the HFM's should be able to fire at the same angles as a TOW and have tracking. They hit like a truck and are auto aim so at what point do we draw a line in the sand and say there needs to be some skill involved in your positioning at the very least?

Its not a matter of forward velocity, but rather the limits of a crutch weapon because whether you like it or not thats what the HFM's are. They are designed to help players enjoy the game at lower skill levels.

Edited by Leonhardt, April 08 2013 - 09:02 PM.

Posted Image


#11 ShadowWarg

ShadowWarg

    Advanced Member

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,384 posts
  • LocationIn the shadows behind you

Posted April 08 2013 - 09:15 PM

I don't mind low skill weapons. I just like it when those same low skill weapons have some aspect to them that allows high skill players to us them in a more advance manner. (again, personal opinion) Kind of like a yoyo. When you first get it you can only do one thing with it but it's still relatively fun, but over time if you put the effort into it, you can do some advance tricks with it.

#12 Watashi

Watashi

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 50 posts

Posted April 08 2013 - 09:44 PM

The thing that bothers me the most with HFM is that if the mech that you target jumps the misslies will crash into the ground.
The vertical acceleration on missiles will drive them to the ground as the jumpin mech is going downwards.

#13 Taw_Archangel

Taw_Archangel

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 292 posts

Posted April 08 2013 - 10:14 PM

View Postm3talc0re, on April 08 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

I'm not talking about better tracking. I'm talking about making them shoot straight out for half a second so they don't come out of the tubes sideways and into a damn wall. They're hella-easy to avoid right now, sometimes without even having to try. Lets say you're on the ground and someone is on a bridge in front of you. You lock and fire, the missiles end up hitting the bridge simply because at your angle, the bridge blocks the flight path. If you aim up to counter it, the missiles still hit the bridge because the missiles shoot right out of your mech at an angle rather than following a forward velocity. TOW doesn't really suffer this problem. The following diagram is just a very simple example, but you get the idea. This same idea applies to, and is worse, when it comes to horizontal obstacles.

Posted Image

The blue line is my current.... if you want tips and tricks with hell-fires I'd be more than happy to show you.
I am known as a few names. Sicarius_X, PilotError, and Archangel. Also, C-class master race ;)
Posted Image

#14 space_

space_

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 347 posts
  • LocationIt came from space

Posted April 08 2013 - 10:53 PM

Dude if you cant make the shot in your image with the current system it means you arn't jumping a bit when you launch.  Personally I think if we went back to the old system hellfires would be devastating because you could shoot them over walls again at almost any range.

All you need to do to make the shot in your image it jump and shoot.  In your second example you want to shoot the missiles almost right at the ground after you lock.  Both shots are extremely basic hellfire hook shots.

Edited by space_, April 08 2013 - 10:54 PM.

"Good, Bad, I'm the guy with the Gun."

"THREE!"

#15 Taw_Archangel

Taw_Archangel

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 292 posts

Posted April 08 2013 - 11:05 PM

View Postspace_, on April 08 2013 - 10:53 PM, said:

All you need to do to make the shot in your image it jump and shoot.

Or you could just aim straight up after the lock on
I am known as a few names. Sicarius_X, PilotError, and Archangel. Also, C-class master race ;)
Posted Image

#16 space_

space_

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 347 posts
  • LocationIt came from space

Posted April 08 2013 - 11:20 PM

Yep both work well, I suggested jumping bc its easier for beginners.
"Good, Bad, I'm the guy with the Gun."

"THREE!"

#17 m3talc0re

m3talc0re

    Advanced Member

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 514 posts

Posted April 09 2013 - 01:16 AM

You people are on crack, i swear...

Your missiles are NOT the blue line because that is NOT how they work in the game right now. The game mechanics force them into being like the red. Hellfires are not a crutch weapon either. By that logic, a TOW is a crutch weapon. Seeing as it's much faster than the hellfires, WAY more accurate in dumbfire (hellfires can be straight up retarded locked or not sometimes), and you can detonate them to use their splash damage.

I'm also talking about other angles, not just the extremely basic idea of that diagram. If I get a lock and they dodge halfway behind cover, I should be able to aim away enough that I can get the missiles to go around that obstacle and still hit their target. This would be a skilled use of the weapons. At range, this does absolutely nothing. This wouldn't shoot over a wall either. It would help go around obstacles. Key word being HELP. As they are right now, it's like this (top) vs what I'm saying it should do (bottom).
Posted Image

#18 Akaon

Akaon

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 391 posts
  • LocationThe Netherlands

Posted April 09 2013 - 08:41 AM

I like this idea, it adds some flexibility to the hellfires. Also get the feeling some people are forgetting about how short the interval is at which you can shoot hellfires and expect all of them to home. This makes the *hookshots* unreliable because even if you're quick, you're not given any certainty that all of the missiles will home.

#19 Leonhardt

Leonhardt

    Rawr

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,820 posts
  • LocationFlorida

Posted April 09 2013 - 01:18 PM

View PostShadowWarg, on April 08 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

I don't mind low skill weapons. I just like it when those same low skill weapons have some aspect to them that allows high skill players to us them in a more advance manner. (again, personal opinion) Kind of like a yoyo. When you first get it you can only do one thing with it but it's still relatively fun, but over time if you put the effort into it, you can do some advance tricks with it.

Isn't that how the HFMs function right now? Sure you can't always shoot them around a corner or do some crazy trick, but if you could hit people around corners consistently then they would be the go to weapon for everyone. Especially with the pee-ka-boo burst meta.

Look at it from the perspective of the player on the receiving end who does not have HFMs. They go around a corner and still get nailed. They can't trade damage and on top of that their weapon is harder to use in comparison. Why take something I have to aim when HFM's can hit just as hard if not harder and they can hit at even crazier angles than they can do now?

Its some bad joojoo!

Posted Image


#20 m3talc0re

m3talc0re

    Advanced Member

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 514 posts

Posted April 09 2013 - 02:42 PM

No it's not. The weapons all have their pro's and con's. Imo, right now, TOW's are superior to Hellfires. Their single, straight firing missile that travels a lot faster than hellfires is their advantage. I'd rather have a TOW on my Bruiser than Hellfires.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users