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Indefinite charging of weapons?


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Poll: Pre-Charged weapons? (36 member(s) have cast votes)

Should indefinite charging of weapons (ie: HEAT) be permitted?

  1. Yes - It's good strategy (21 votes [58.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 58.33%

  2. No - Too easy for high-damage instastrikes (11 votes [30.56%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.56%

  3. Doesn't matter (4 votes [11.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.11%

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#1 DM30

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Posted November 15 2012 - 11:24 AM

Just figured like seeing what people's opinions on this matter were. Do you think it's a good or bad thing that the game allows players to pre-charge weapons like the HEAT cannon indefinitely, without any penalty no matter how long they hold that charge? For example, I've seen a good number of vids of Infiltrator or Rocketeers holding the left mouse button down for pretty much the entire match, only releasing it when an enemy pops into sight, allowing for high-damage strikes with zero warning at any time. Should a penalty like very gradual heat build up or some other such side-effect be implemented in these cases, or is it fine as is?

Note: This poll wasn't started to seek confirmation of some personal bias on the matter. I personally am undecided.

#2 BuDeKai

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Posted November 15 2012 - 11:34 AM

now imagine if u can have the vulcan spun up all the time. it be kinda like that but with the eoc and heat cannon.

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#3 KejiGoto

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Posted November 15 2012 - 11:39 AM

There is a penalty for charging your weapon though and that is it produces more heat once fired. Yes they get that initial high damage strike but then the weapon needs to be charged again for another strong blow and the weapon is getting close to over heating much faster than if you were firing standard shots.

Infiltrators have very little armor and it doesn't take much to bring one down so having the ability to strike hard like that is pretty vital. Often I'm not sure where an enemy is exactly until I get a visual and a few times I've had a charge ready when running into someone at random which would have meant my death had it not been for the charged heat cannon. I smashed them hard, they smash me back, and then we both flee (typically) not wanting to give the other side a kill. As for the Rocketeer they are slow and burn fuel like no other so they need a way to hit hard and not be a sitting duck if they are caught off guard.

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#4 defekt

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Posted November 15 2012 - 11:42 AM

A related topic was raised in another thread, which I now can't find!  Typical.

Presently, I question the validity of the 'hold LMB' mechanic; not from a point of view that I question chargeable weapons, I like that, but more from the position that the hold button mechanic is unnecessary.  With the way that the weapons work now there is no reason that I can think of where you'd not want your weapon to charge up while it's not being fired, so why force players to hold down a mouse button all of the time?  It places unnecessary wear on your hardware, your hand, and all for what?  If chargeable weapons automatically initiated their recharge cycle after having been fired this would not change the practical function of said weapons in any way, yet it would lessen the real life strains and stresses on man and machine.

The only reason I see a need to require the player to manually initiate a recharge cycle, by holding down a button, is if the built up charge slowly started to decay after it reached its maximum; however, such a mechanic would not be easily implemented without forcing action like deliberate discharges, at nothing, just to restart the recharge cycle.  I really don't think that would work out.

#5 3Jane

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Posted November 15 2012 - 11:44 AM

I believe it is an issue if they leave certain weapon combinations such as heat and GL together, the damage is just insane.

In my opinion, Infiltrator should be more about positioning/cover usage, abusing speed and popping out. Not just based on a HUGE initial damage spike followed up by unavoidable splash damage.

A heat build up would be great I think, nice idea.

Not really used or seen this used on a Rocketeer so I can't really comment on that.

#6 Deu

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Posted November 15 2012 - 11:50 AM

I don't mind because you can't boost forward if you hold the left button. Easy to out maneuver but still a challenge. Already well balanced right? Don't fix it if it isn't broken.

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#7 Tezkat

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Posted November 15 2012 - 11:53 AM

The problem with applying a penalty like a heat buildup is that you'd need to add a safe way to discharge the weapon when it isn't needed. Right now the only way to do so is initiate a repair or boost forward, both of which leave you vulnerable. I don't mind the toggle mechanic for your secondary weapons, but I think it adding it to the primary would unnecessarily complicate the control system.

The heat cannon has a 1 second cooldown and a 1 second charge time, so at least a 2 second delay between shots. And you generally can't kill someone with an alpha strike anyway.
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#8 KejiGoto

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Posted November 15 2012 - 12:12 PM

View PostDeu, on November 15 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

I don't mind because you can't boost forward if you hold the left button. Easy to out maneuver but still a challenge. Already well balanced right? Don't fix it if it isn't broken.

I had completely forgotten about this but yea this right here takes care of the issue. Fast mechs can't boost and hold a charge at the same time so that ability to speed in, hit someone, and then take off can't happen.

This is a huge part of the reason why I don't care for the heat cannon on my Infiltrator.

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#9 TheChaffeemancer

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Posted November 15 2012 - 02:11 PM

View Postdefekt, on November 15 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:

A related topic was raised in another thread, which I now can't find!  Typical.

Presently, I question the validity of the 'hold LMB' mechanic; not from a point of view that I question chargeable weapons, I like that, but more from the position that the hold button mechanic is unnecessary.  With the way that the weapons work now there is no reason that I can think of where you'd not want your weapon to charge up while it's not being fired, so why force players to hold down a mouse button all of the time?  It places unnecessary wear on your hardware, your hand, and all for what?  If chargeable weapons automatically initiated their recharge cycle after having been fired this would not change the practical function of said weapons in any way, yet it would lessen the real life strains and stresses on man and machine.

The only reason I see a need to require the player to manually initiate a recharge cycle, by holding down a button, is if the built up charge slowly started to decay after it reached its maximum; however, such a mechanic would not be easily implemented without forcing action like deliberate discharges, at nothing, just to restart the recharge cycle.  I really don't think that would work out.

Kiwi would be behind keeping chargeable weapons the same as they are now, except they start charging automatically. In some ways, you can see it as optional weapon cooldown, fire sooner for less damage then the big, charged shot. Kiwi would love to see how this change affects HEAT/EOC play. Kiwi often feels like he's gimping himself with the HEAT because he doesn't keep it perpetually charged.
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#10 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted November 15 2012 - 02:27 PM

I'm against an autocharge. I think it takes away from the decision making process of charging and if I'm trying to maintain stealth, it gives me away. I've actually managed some rather nasty ambushes against HEAT infils because I hear the cannon even if I don't see them on radar.

However, I wouldn't be against a toggle charge. Click LMB once to start the charge, clicking it again would fire.
Boosting, repairing any of the normal charge-cancels would still do their thing.
I just want to make sure having a fully charged shot is a conscience decision and not something automatically done for you.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

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#11 Tezkat

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Posted November 15 2012 - 02:33 PM

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on November 15 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

However, I wouldn't be against a toggle charge. Click LMB once to start the charge, clicking it again would fire.

Ugh, no... that would mean even uncharged shots would require a double click. And unless the charge indicator was much more visible than it is now, you'd end up with a lot of accidental shots that way. Plus, there are still uses for uncharged or partially charged shots in the heat of battle...
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#12 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted November 15 2012 - 03:01 PM

View PostTezkat, on November 15 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on November 15 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

However, I wouldn't be against a toggle charge. Click LMB once to start the charge, clicking it again would fire.
Ugh, no... that would mean even uncharged shots would require a double click. And unless the charge indicator was much more visible than it is now, you'd end up with a lot of accidental shots that way. Plus, there are still uses for uncharged or partially charged shots in the heat of battle...
Which why overall I like it the way it is.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

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#13 TheChaffeemancer

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Posted November 15 2012 - 03:03 PM

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on November 15 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

However, I wouldn't be against a toggle charge. Click LMB once to start the charge, clicking it again would fire.

Ew, that just reminds Kiwi of the Bombast Laser in MW4, which was a bad weapon.
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#14 DM30

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Posted November 15 2012 - 03:10 PM

View PostTheChaffeemancer, on November 15 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

Ew, that just reminds Kiwi of the Bombast Laser in MW4, which was a bad weapon.

Ugh, please, I don't want to hear the words 'Bombast' and 'Laser' used together. Biggest waste of tonnage ever, IMHO...

#15 DarkPulse

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Posted November 15 2012 - 03:44 PM

Keep charges manual. And keep in mind that you automatically lose your charge if you boost forward.

The two of these combine to balance out holding a charge nicely.
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#16 Immie

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Posted November 15 2012 - 05:08 PM

Toggle charge (so one click builds up charge and a second click releases it) would be fine IMO; save the left mouse buttons.


Just preserve all the current properties of holding a charge (example: canceled when boosting/repairing) so that it's a control choice and not a balance change.

Edited by Immie, November 15 2012 - 05:08 PM.

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#17 ArnieF4440

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Posted November 15 2012 - 06:46 PM

I don't have a problem with holding the charge. Yes you do deal more damage, but the biggest problem is that to fire again costs you some time to build up the charge.

For the Heat Cannon, it does 85(/90?) damage uncharged, and not even double, 150 damage (but it has 2x the projectile speed), charged. IMO, it takes longer to charge the heat cannon and fire once, compared to firing 2 uncharged shots which deal more damage overall. I do agree that there should be a bit more heat buildup, if you only charged the Heat cannon (like me), the next shot's charge time negates most of the heat buildup anyway.

PS. like having a charge toggle, but how to you manage the uncharged shots?

Edited by ArnieF4440, November 15 2012 - 06:47 PM.

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#18 DarkPulse

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Posted November 15 2012 - 06:52 PM

View PostArnieF4440, on November 15 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

I don't have a problem with holding the charge. Yes you do deal more damage, but the biggest problem is that to fire again costs you some time to build up the charge.

For the Heat Cannon, it does 85(/90?) damage uncharged, and not even double, 150 damage (but it has 2x the projectile speed), charged. IMO, it takes longer to charge the heat cannon and fire once, compared to firing 2 uncharged shots which deal more damage overall. I do agree that there should be a bit more heat buildup, if you only charged the Heat cannon (like me), the next shot's charge time negates most of the heat buildup anyway.

PS. like having a charge toggle, but how to you manage the uncharged shots?
Heat does 90 uncharged, 155 charged. And yes, it does go at double speed if charged.

Refire rate is one second precisely, and it also takes one second to charge. So it's a tradeoff: You can do 180 damage for 20 heat in two seconds, or you can fire the single, charged shot for 155 at double the projectile speed (and a bigger splash damage radius) in the same time.

As for the toggle? Presumably it'd switch between auto-charge and manual charge states.

Edited by DarkPulse, November 15 2012 - 06:52 PM.

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#19 D20Face

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Posted November 15 2012 - 07:10 PM

I'd like the option to cancel a charge without using fuel.

Not that it'd be useful now, but I like being able to cancel my "weapon ready" vibe.

#20 DarkPulse

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Posted November 15 2012 - 07:21 PM

View PostD20Face, on November 15 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:

I'd like the option to cancel a charge without using fuel.

Not that it'd be useful now, but I like being able to cancel my "weapon ready" vibe.
Boost forward momentarily. It will cancel the charge and not cost you heat since it lowers your guns.

You could also drop into heal mode for the same effect.

Edited by DarkPulse, November 15 2012 - 07:21 PM.

Reason as my minor ego, and opposite my desire to be a murderer.
A coagulated, gloomy thinking in the intelligence, as my major ego.
An antinomian theorem of behaviorism, in all of my thinkings.
It's what we call "The Inversion Impulse."




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