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Why is it bad to develop for console and port to PC (below)


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#1 Guru_Zeb

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Posted October 07 2011 - 03:53 PM

Here's a bit of an educational wake-up call for all those who kept asking "why is it bad to develop for consoles then port to PC'.
When some of us warned of the dangers of the practice.
Run the vid in the page below. watch and learn.

http://www.joystiq.c...fixes-incoming/

Now discuss or just walk away nodding.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the juice of the Brew,
that thoughts acquire speed,
the teeth acquire stains,
the stains become a warning.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.

#2 JetUppercut

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Posted October 09 2011 - 04:50 AM

Maybe his computer is just drunk.

#3 SixEcho

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Posted October 09 2011 - 03:32 PM

Considering this subject is doomed and pointless I'll just troll you.

Rage made the fundamental mistake of not considering that the hardware for PC's is not nearly as optimized as that of a console and requires more intensive coding to really take advantage of that extra power.

Shouldn't have released on PC's or at least delayed it a full year behind consoles.

#4 Narshalbarsh

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Posted October 09 2011 - 05:39 PM

TheDubstepDisciple said:

the hardware for PC's is not nearly as optimized as that of a console and requires more intensive coding to really take advantage of that extra power.

The hardware isn't any more or less "optimized" its the fact that games for consoles can be written in low level code because consoles always have the same exact hardware, when a game is made for pc it has to be made in high level code to go through an api then the hardware to ensure compatibility with the different kinds of pc hardware being used

#5 Guru_Zeb

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Posted October 10 2011 - 01:54 AM

TheDubstepDisciple said:

Considering this subject is doomed and pointless I'll just troll you.

Rage made the fundamental mistake of not considering that the hardware for PC's is not nearly as optimized as that of a console and requires more intensive coding to really take advantage of that extra power.

Shouldn't have released on PC's or at least delayed it a full year behind consoles.

So any time someone confronts you with a truth (presented with clear evidence to support) that you'd rather not accept. Your level of intellectual response is to declare them a 'troll'  :roll:

Or maybe you just can't handle a little touch of sarcasm with your medicine  :lol:

So exactly how does the 2nd part of your comment not EXACTLY support my assertion about 'This is what can go wrong when console to PC ports are not done with meticulous attention' ?!?!?!?  :roll:

I mean i guess i can understand you being butt hurt about me bringing it up ........ but at least try to make sense  :lol:
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the juice of the Brew,
that thoughts acquire speed,
the teeth acquire stains,
the stains become a warning.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.

#6 Nitris

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Posted October 10 2011 - 04:49 AM

I get no texture popins, or lag of any kind. This may be because I spent a good 2 or 3 hours wading through the interwebs to find out how to setup a .cfg file- wherein I can specify exactly what GFX settings I want to run.

I don't see why we, as paying customers, have to fix up our newly purchased products ourselves-- you don't buy a car, and then open up the bonnet and fuck about under the hood to get the engine to start. If it doesn't work, you send it right back to the dealership and demand they fix it, or every penny of your money back.

Now, I know that the recent patch has fixed a few issues, and very slightly increased the number of GFX options available to the regular joe via the ingame settings, but seriously they barely scratch the surface.

As a side note: Why do we need a patch to help with NPC animation stuttering on ATI cards? Was this game not tested on ATI cards or something???

Anyway, from what I have read, there are texture popin issues on the 360 and to a greater extent, on the PS3 versions of RAGE as well-- go figure.
This would point to it not simply being a "developed for console, and ported to PC" issue, because it doesn't work properly on the consoles either.
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#7 Catgut

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Posted October 10 2011 - 10:12 AM

kody said:

TheDubstepDisciple said:

the hardware for PC's is not nearly as optimized as that of a console and requires more intensive coding to really take advantage of that extra power.

The hardware isn't any more or less "optimized" its the fact that games for consoles can be written in low level code because consoles always have the same exact hardware, when a game is made for pc it has to be made in high level code to go through an api then the hardware to ensure compatibility with the different kinds of pc hardware being used

In other words, the software is more heavily optimized for consoles and so runs better on consoles, even though the PC has more raw power available, which is pretty much what he said.

#8 SixEcho

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Posted October 11 2011 - 11:53 AM

Cat got the idea.

PC's need more individual time devoted to them. Day 1 patches on Consoles tend to fix all major bugs (Dead Island withstanding) whereas PC's need to be patched for any multitude of configurations.

Logistically its just far more work and upkeep. Its not like the PC crowd makes it easy for them either.

#9 Catgut

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Posted October 12 2011 - 10:30 AM

From a programming standpoint it's fundamentally different as well. On a PC, developers need to use relatively high-level functions (like the DirectX API) to do all your work. This ensures maximum intercompatibility, but isn't particularly efficient for any particular build. In developing for consoles, a developer can use low-level programming tailored for the hardware of the console itself, rather than relying on another level of software to translate the instructions. The thing is, these two are not readily convertible. It's a lot of work to take that low-level optimization, strip it out, and change it to DirectX calls. It's also a lot of work to go back and optimize for console hardware.

The solution, amusingly enough, is a new console hardware generation. The increase in available power makes it less crucial to have perfectly optimized code. It's as the console ages that optimization becomes more and more important, as the graphics quality is increasing but the processing power isn't.

#10 SixEcho

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Posted October 13 2011 - 12:33 PM

I concur as well. This next holiday season will prove that this console generation has worn itself out faster then expected. We need a newer more powerful console at this E3 or I dont know what console will do nesides stagnate.

#11 lunithy

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Posted October 13 2011 - 09:26 PM

TheDubstepDisciple said:

I concur as well. This next holiday season will prove that this console generation has worn itself out faster then expected. We need a newer more powerful console at this E3 or I dont know what console will do nesides stagnate.
I also concur also  ;) as someone who bought a ps3 after Sony claimed there 7 core would be future prof :oops: .
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#12 FullDread

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Posted October 13 2011 - 09:39 PM

They are still making games for xbox 360 and PS3?

#13 k0rN_b4LL

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Posted October 14 2011 - 07:49 PM

For you guys arguing on the first page, ^ that right there is what a troll statement looks like. :roll:

#14 Nitris

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Posted October 17 2011 - 04:38 AM

K0rN b4LL said:

For you guys arguing on the first page, ^ that right there is what a troll statement looks like. :roll:

Thanks, Capt. Obvious- What would we do without you?

[/off topic]

Purely from a business stand point, having to split your dev team, have a completely different team, or even have the same dev team work on both a PC and console version of your game is just plain inefficient. It can mean any of the following;

1. Half the work output.
2. Product taking longer to be finished.
3. Costs more in wages.

So what to do?
Well, work solely on either one market or the other- preferably the one that will require the lowest amount of work/time and have the highest possibility of sales.
That right now -- unfortunately -- is the console market.
Don't fight back. Fight forward.

#15 Crow

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Posted October 20 2011 - 03:42 PM

Getting a tad off topic but I am getting texture popping in Rage no matter what I try, any ideas?

And this picture amused me
Posted Image

I too hope, Hawken devs won't be like Bethesda and get lazy with programming.

#16 SixEcho

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Posted October 23 2011 - 03:23 PM

I will forgive you for insulting Bethesda on what was Id's programming fuck-up.

Id was very clear Bethesda had to stay hands-off if they wanted to acquire them, Bethesda acknowledged that and they made Rage.

Now Bethesda won't be hands-off. Problem solved.

#17 Crow

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Posted October 24 2011 - 07:26 PM

My apologies, I hope Hawken devs won't be like Id and get lazy with programming. Many of Bethesda's others games were also very buggy though, was this work of Id as well?

#18 Nitris

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Posted November 01 2011 - 05:21 AM

AzureCrow said:

Getting a tad off topic but I am getting texture popping in Rage no matter what I try, any ideas?

And this picture amused me
http://cdn.gamefront... ... arison.jpg

I too hope, Hawken devs won't be like Bethesda and get lazy with programming.

From my PC Steam version of RAGE. It CAN work...

http://cloud.steampo... ... C382368C9/

Also, note that I had not cranked up the GFX settings at this point- I have now and it is better with FSAA, and the other nice settings.

Also: ZOOM ZOOM!

@Asure; I take it you have the PC version? Check out the RAGE Steam forums for loads of helpful threads. Its how I got mine working.
Don't fight back. Fight forward.

#19 TheDoctor1

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Posted November 01 2011 - 09:31 AM

I think with a development team as dedicated to their product as this, the port probably wouldn't be as atrocious as some of the listed examples, and if I had to throw in an example of a bad port I would go with Saints Row 2. Sure it worked, but not well.

Seeing as how they have not announced a release date, or perhaps don’t plan to, this gives them ample opportunity to iron out any issues that may occur with a port like this. Hopefully we have one very vocal dev who is a PC gamer.

#20 SouPx

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Posted November 09 2011 - 11:27 PM

It's still better to make the game for PC first and optimize it for console afterwards. You put more work into it sure, but that's the minimum work you do for PC games. "Un-optimizing" it to work for the PC, which is the opposite way, is pretty much always messy from all the gaming experience I've had, often wishing they hadn't ported the game at all. Prototype was probably the worst example of a console-to-PC port I've had personally.

In the end it pretty much ends up being a hardware malleability issue, such as whether they want to make the software more capable of working on many compositions of hardware, or if they just want to streamline it for a few and let the others struggle. As one of their first games, I'd hope they take the wider choice so they get early footing on the method that leaves more people happy if done right.
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