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#1 IareDave

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Posted October 16 2014 - 09:35 AM

Orbs! Orbs everywhere!

The purpose of this thread is to simply bring to the table a few observations I have made in Hawken as of late, and perhaps to promote a discussion of the pros/cons of this new (or is it old?) build I have noticed sprouting up throughout some of the top tier players.

I refer this build as the 'hestoned' build, as he was the first person I seen to really push this build to the limit. It consists of the following internal comp.: adv. repair kit, extract, (insert random slot internal), with of course Mk.3 orbs (the more the better).

I switched to this setup on all of my mechs (removing the AC, which was a tear jerking process), and have taught myself how to properly play using only ground movement and the occasional jump and hover. What have I noticed? It's ludicrous. The hp regen is high, and you can virtually beat anyone in a 1v1 open-fight assuming you dropped your own orb at the appropriate time, your aim is adequate, and if your opponent isn't sitting on a orb as well. It's also incredibly useful in team scenarios as you can orb hop and maintain momentum with your pushes, as opposed to finding a dark corner and pressing C.

It is a powerful setup and if you haven't tried it I recommend you muster up the courage and give it a go yourself.

#2 Skitzo1d

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Posted October 16 2014 - 09:39 AM

Since Ive been using this set up do I get to include myself in high tier ? :)





people wil laugh so hard.

Fred is sad hes not like the other robots

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[12:43] <@ThirdEyE> skitzo1d = worst reaper NA

#3 Sylhiri

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Posted October 16 2014 - 09:42 AM

People have been doing this since HAB, lol. Tank Infil ftw.

[13:14] <nonsiccus_work> uh oh

there's gravy in my keyboard

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[11:18] <+shosca> if you wanna play ar, go play zerker
[11:18] <Hyginos> and if you want to play zerker, go smc
[11:19] <someone> if you want to play sustain, please go and die in hell


#4 DerMax

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Posted October 16 2014 - 09:54 AM

This build has been used by many since Ascension. Rajhin and FakeName used it extensively, from what I can remember.

I use it on my Raider, but in a different variation (Repair Kit + Basic Extractor).

Edited by DerMax, October 16 2014 - 09:57 AM.


#5 peacecraftSLD

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Posted October 16 2014 - 09:57 AM

Makes you think twice on chasing a Scout now behind a corner. They could drop the orb, heal to full or almost to full, and by the time you show up it's Round 2 and hes got the health adavantage.

#6 TwentyFirstPilot

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Posted October 16 2014 - 10:01 AM

TL;DR: To get good, orb it up.

Aspiring Professional Yolodriver


View PostAmidatelion, on May 24 2014 - 01:36 AM, said:

Yeah, but dude, we are at 1750. As much as we would like to be Professional Yolodrivers like you [Meraple] and Lightangel112, we're not there yet. It's something to aspire to, sure, but there's a lot of ground to cover.

View Postcomic_sans, on October 31 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

SS, you wanna fight me?  I'm druuuuuunk????? You could maybe win?!!

#7 ticklemyiguana

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Posted October 16 2014 - 10:38 AM

It's truly one of my least favorite things in the game, but I use some variation of it in most of my mechs. I feel it gives you far too much of a second chance in a game that's supposed to be about precision movement and planning. Some players who use it are indeed very good, but in my mind, if I've brought you down to 2 health, and you heal up on an orb, then fuzzy bunny you. I feel like I should have won that one.

It's a very serious advantage to anyone running such a comp with even a marginal level of skill.

Edited by ticklemyiguana, October 16 2014 - 10:48 AM.

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#8 hotdoginspector

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Posted October 16 2014 - 11:17 AM

Takes the fun out of 1v1 engagements. Guaranteed win for the orb muncher.
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I will if you ask me in a sexy voice over Skype.

#9 comic_sans

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Posted October 16 2014 - 11:27 AM

I usually just go for the adv. repair kit and drop an orb on a dead guy for double orb speedz, but yeah, it's OP as hell.  Only counter I've found is to get on your enemy's orb and keep them off it with your body.

Edited by comic_sans, October 16 2014 - 11:27 AM.


#10 Skitzo1d

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Posted October 16 2014 - 11:33 AM

View Postcomic_sans, on October 16 2014 - 11:27 AM, said:

  Only counter I've found is to get on your enemy's orb and keep them off it with your body.

find 5 of your teamates and you all shoot him.

Fred is sad hes not like the other robots

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[12:43] <@ThirdEyE> skitzo1d = worst reaper NA

#11 PoopSlinger

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Posted October 16 2014 - 11:48 AM

Its obnoxious and I hate when people do it.  With that said I do it on every mech since I started playing last summer.   I feel it kinda ruins the game.

#12 mittens800

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Posted October 16 2014 - 11:51 AM

I hate it when people do it.

If close enough, I always try to get in there with them - sharing is caring!  

Why should they get all the fun...

#13 Akrium

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Posted October 16 2014 - 11:56 AM

The irony of all the changes to healing and orbs means the counter play to orbs really went away.

Back when the ttk was longer you could push someone off their orb because it was absorbed slower as well. So you could start to take the orb they dropped. Thus making it a double edged sword to use.

But interesting things like that are not as easily reproduced in a fast paced game.

#14 Leonhardt

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Posted October 16 2014 - 12:04 PM

View PostAkrium, on October 16 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

But interesting things like that are not as easily reproduced in a fast paced game.

Traditional fast paced games (i.e. Classic Arena Shooters) have set points on the map to get health and there is no self healing system. So this "problem" is unique to Hawken because of how health is freely available to all players regardless of map position due to orbs, pressing "c" and the tech.

Ultimately the faster pace of the game is not really the offender, all the decreased ttk does is punish players who don't capitalize on anything that increases their health during a health race (fight). How health is handled in the game is the real issue. Being able to drop free health in any Arena Shooter would be god tier much like it is in Hawken.

Edited by Leonhardt, October 16 2014 - 12:04 PM.

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#15 Sylhiri

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Posted October 16 2014 - 12:08 PM

Manual healing has a disadvantage though while tech and orbs don't really have one. I would also say the Shield hasn't helped the health situation throughout the games life since they removed explosive splash when it got hit plus it helps certain mechs more then others.

[13:14] <nonsiccus_work> uh oh

there's gravy in my keyboard

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[11:18] <+shosca> if you wanna play ar, go play zerker
[11:18] <Hyginos> and if you want to play zerker, go smc
[11:19] <someone> if you want to play sustain, please go and die in hell


#16 LoC_TR

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Posted October 16 2014 - 12:14 PM

Old new meta!

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Raider Vids>>>Twitch Youtube<<<Raider Vids 2500mmr

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#17 Akrium

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Posted October 16 2014 - 12:16 PM

View PostLeonhardt, on October 16 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

View PostAkrium, on October 16 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

But interesting things like that are not as easily reproduced in a fast paced game.

Traditional fast paced games (i.e. Classic Arena Shooters) have set points on the map to get health and there is no self healing system. So this "problem" is unique to Hawken because of how health is freely available to all players regardless of map position due to orbs, pressing "c" and the tech.

Ultimately the faster pace of the game is not really the offender, all the decreased ttk does is punish players who don't capitalize on anything that increases their health during a health race (fight). How health is handled in the game is the real issue. Being able to drop free health in any Arena Shooter would be god tier much like it is in Hawken.

Just having the mobile healing doesn't make it god tier. It wasn't god tier in early Hawken, it was good.. but not god. And in a health race you have 4 options..

1) heal up as well
2) counter defensive item with offensive item
3) stop their dps (emp) so only you dps
4) attempt to run - not really plausible since most likely the time to escape was before the health race started due to low ttk

In the case of a tech coming into the fight.. well.. it's 2v1. That is just unlucky(or stupidity) that you don't have a teammate around.

/edit: also do to the low ttk and current nerfing of really good burst options.. a lot of those options are not as good as others.

#18 Merl61

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Posted October 16 2014 - 12:29 PM

This is what I use for the most part. On some maps (origin mostly) I still like having ac. On some mechs the fuel converter or failsafe is quite useful, but overall? Reppin for days on those orbs is the way to go. (me using orbs a lot)
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#19 DM30

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Posted October 16 2014 - 01:13 PM

Yeah, not exactly new, but I have seen the amount of people using this sort of build increasing a LOT recently (myself included). It does feel a little bit insane sometimes.

As a band-aid solution, I wouldn't be against adding 'incompatibilities' between Extractor and Repair Kit internals similar to the ones between different tiers of the same equipment so that people have to chose faster heals or more heals, not both.

#20 Sylhiri

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Posted October 16 2014 - 01:29 PM

Could always make half the damage you receive be recoverable with health orb/tech and the only way for a full heal is manual healing. Say you have 300 HP and get damaged for 150 HP, you can heal 150 HP with a manual heal but only 75 HP with a health orb or yellow tech beam. This way your progressively losing health until you manually heal.

Edited by Sylhiri, October 16 2014 - 01:30 PM.

[13:14] <nonsiccus_work> uh oh

there's gravy in my keyboard

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[11:18] <+shosca> if you wanna play ar, go play zerker
[11:18] <Hyginos> and if you want to play zerker, go smc
[11:19] <someone> if you want to play sustain, please go and die in hell





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