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New Game Mechanic: Reverse Dash


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#1 Flakkjack

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Posted November 21 2012 - 02:25 PM

Chip in if you agree but I believe combat strategy and fun would be increased if a reverse slide/dash was added.

If you think about it we have forward dash, left and right dash, and I really think it'd be cool and useful to be able to slide back (ala Steel Battalion) and give yourself some fighting room sometimes to pump that last TOW rocket or grenade into your unfortunate enemy. The default key should be Shift-back (shift-S).

I would keep the 180 degree spin in the game, sure. Because it's useful SOMETIMES haha. Just bind it somewhere else or double tap down.

I have given this a lot of thought and I think it brings a lot to Hawken.

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#2 Enryoki

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Posted November 21 2012 - 02:30 PM

This theme was speaked earlier.
Backward boost may cause troubles with balance.
Boost drives are installed in back part of mech and its physically impossible to boost backwards with it.

#3 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted November 21 2012 - 02:32 PM

Been discussed since Alpha.

The consensus is always no.

Want to know why?

The reverse dash mechanic is one that reduces how much thought you have to put into movement and making sure you're well positioned. If you accidentally run into a ambush, you can easily back dash to remove yourself immediately and place distance between you. It also trivializes close quarters combat play, as it allows you to continuously back away from a CQC class without having to turn your back on them, all while being able to periodically fire at them. When you learn to think about your positioning more, and don't overextend, you'll find you never need a back dash.

There's also the fact that it trivializes the skill of those who use 180 retreat tactics.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

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#4 Enryoki

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Posted November 21 2012 - 02:35 PM

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on November 21 2012 - 02:32 PM, said:

Been discussed since Alpha.

The consensus is always no.

Want to know why?

The reverse dash mechanic is one that reduces how much thought you have to put into movement and making sure you're well positioned. If you accidentally run into a ambush, you can easily back dash to remove yourself immediately and place distance between you. It also trivializes close quarters combat play, as it allows you to continuously back away from a CQC class without having to turn your back on them, all while being able to periodically fire at them. When you learn to think about your positioning more, and don't overextend, you'll find you never need a back dash.

There's also the fact that it trivializes the skill of those who use 180 retreat tactics.

+

#5 Flakkjack

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Posted November 21 2012 - 02:35 PM

Where the boosters are mounted on the mechs graphically shouldn't matter too much. The things have boosters on the back and can still boost to the side pretty well wouldn't you say? Don't let a technicality in the physics (on fictional mechs in an imagined futuristic setting) get in the way of a good gameplay mechanic.
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#6 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted November 21 2012 - 02:39 PM

View PostFlakkjack, on November 21 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

Don't let a technicality in the physics (on fictional mechs in an imagined futuristic setting) get in the way of a good gameplay mechanic.
There has to be some basis in logic, otherwise I should be pilot a fluffy pink elephant around that killed people with rainbow farts.

And anyway, back dash is a bad mechanic.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

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#7 Flakkjack

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Posted November 21 2012 - 02:50 PM

We're in a discussion forum not a dictatorship and comments like that don't help discuss topics that are of interest to some people. I'm only trying to add my voice to the discussion.

I don't want to roll pink elephants either lol. But you see my point, what I think would be good differs from your thoughts? Thanks for the comments.
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#8 Beemann

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Posted November 21 2012 - 03:02 PM

You're going to get impatient responses because this has been discussed to death. Every beta test has had at least 2 of these threads, and Alpha had quite a few as well

Same goes for melee, if you or someone you know was going to start a thread on that as well :P

Edited by Beemann, November 21 2012 - 03:02 PM.

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#9 StormTec

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Posted November 21 2012 - 03:04 PM

View PostFlakkjack, on November 21 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

Where the boosters are mounted on the mechs graphically shouldn't matter too much. The things have boosters on the back and can still boost to the side pretty well wouldn't you say? Don't let a technicality in the physics (on fictional mechs in an imagined futuristic setting) get in the way of a good gameplay mechanic.

I don't take much stock in the "it's not realistic" argument in a game that features a game mode where you collect energy units to power a space ship that flies towards the enemy base. However, the rest of AJK's post makes a lot of sense from a gameplay perspective. The game obviously wants you to treat retreating as something you do while giving up your ability to engage opponents, and a back-dash would go against that.

#10 TheChaffeemancer

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Posted November 21 2012 - 03:08 PM

We collect energy units because the battleships are not made of metal, they're made of ENERGY.

As for back dash, it's bad.
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#11 Necro

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Posted November 21 2012 - 04:34 PM

I could see possibly a mech that used this as an ability but all mechs doing it wouldn't end well.

#12 Gagzila

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Posted November 21 2012 - 09:05 PM

View PostTheChaffeemancer, on November 21 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

We collect energy units because the battleships are not made of metal, they're made of ENERGY.

What?... :blink:
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#13 5eraph

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Posted November 21 2012 - 11:13 PM

Protip: Rotate 90 degrees and sidestraffe.  Make sure to have a decently high mouse sensitivity for quick turning.

#14 Teljaxx

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Posted November 21 2012 - 11:23 PM

I agree that reverse dashing would not work well in this game.  I played eXteel back when it was around, and it felt somewhat similar to Hawken's dashing system, except in all directions. This made it so that melee and short range weapons were very hard to use because you could simply move at top speed away from your opponent and still fight back.

I find that in games like this, where there are relatively few limitations on movement, it is those limitations that make it interesting and allow more tactical gameplay.
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#15 DarkPulse

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Posted November 22 2012 - 12:12 AM

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on November 21 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

There has to be some basis in logic, otherwise I should be pilot a fluffy pink elephant around that killed people with rainbow farts.
I want this "gun."
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#16 RipperT

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Posted November 22 2012 - 12:29 AM

You should be playing tf2 then DP. I believe they have an optional gun that shoots something like that on the Pyro. Rainbow farts with party favors if i recall correctly.

#17 Beemann

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Posted November 22 2012 - 01:50 AM

View PostDarkPulse, on November 22 2012 - 12:12 AM, said:

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on November 21 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

There has to be some basis in logic, otherwise I should be pilot a fluffy pink elephant around that killed people with rainbow farts.
I want this "gun."
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#18 Gagzila

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Posted November 22 2012 - 02:28 PM

View Post5eraph, on November 21 2012 - 11:13 PM, said:

Protip: Rotate 90 degrees and sidestraffe.  Make sure to have a decently high mouse sensitivity for quick turning.

Or you could just SHIFT+S, SHIFT+W, SHIFT+S and shoot...this method allows you to get further away and to control your direction while boosting - you don't have to runaway in a straight line :P

I can definitely see your method working in some scenarios, usually though if I am 180ing and boosting away it's because I need to repair so I don't bother trying to keep shooting...this is also talking from a SS perspective where I'm usually elevated and a 180 and boost will drop me behind cover or I am far enough away to be able to boost around behind some cover while my team mates hold the front line.

Cheers,

Gagzila
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#19 Russhole

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Posted November 22 2012 - 03:24 PM

The limitations of movement are what makes Hawken different from any other FPS game. While there are many times I wished I had backwards boost, in the end I don't think the game needs it.

#20 Zorvaz

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Posted November 22 2012 - 03:33 PM

A reverse dash is a bad mechanic in my opinion and the game does not need it. You can already use the 180 as a makeshift back dash if you use it correctly, which raises the skill cap on movement in this game. If you could back dash running into a group of enemies and in general situational awareness would be a trivial thing, as you could just pop your mech in reverse and fire on them while getting away. Having to turn your back to an opponent is good thing, as it punishes you for poor decision making.




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