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A little social experiment

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#1 driedjello

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Posted September 21 2014 - 09:25 PM

So I loaded up my unplayed account and started life as a brand new player.  I took my plain vanilla crt out and within 7, yes 7 games I was playing against 2100 MMR accounts using the auto game finder thing.

Not only was I playing against players with hundreds of hours into the game, but the old team "balancer" was consistently stacking the level 30s against the <5 hours players.  The victors were often times not good sports but talked trash and took glee in camping the base and laying waste to hapless players.  Thus far I haven't experienced any of the sportsmanship I would like to think the vets would show, the same care-and-feeding some of you are claiming in these very forums.  There were some VERY familiar names in that list.

Some of you vets say that you are trying to "help" players learn Hawken but from what I have seen from a familiar lot of you is quite the opposite.  You are encouraging new players to logoff and not look back.  Congratulations, I hope your microphallic condition can be treated with over the counter cremes.

Nine games in and I have to say if this is the experience new players who saw this neat mech shooter on Steam are getting, then Hawken has a grim future.
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#2 Silverfire

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Posted September 21 2014 - 09:28 PM

I for one, whenever on my smurf account, always offer advice and tips to any players making obvious mistakes as they play, particularly in low MMR rooms.

Except when they accuse me of hacking, that's when I start putting limitations on myself (like TOW only, no flying, only AR, no dodging, etc.) and asking them to record me. If hackusations persist, and then I start doing...other things.

Edited by Silverfire, September 21 2014 - 09:30 PM.

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#3 EliteShooter

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Posted September 21 2014 - 10:11 PM

Am I among those players with no sportsmanship?

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#4 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted September 21 2014 - 10:18 PM

I've never been one to give quarter, but then again you won't see me claiming to be a nice person.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

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#5 SS396

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Posted September 21 2014 - 10:49 PM

Thats an interesting experiment, but my take on it is that it was slightly flawed from the get go.  Your previous experience in the game is what made your stay in the lower ranks such a short amount of time.  You were able to get lots of points per round and most likely you MVP'd every round of those previous 7 due to your familiarity.  A "standard" player I don't think would be able to achieve that as easily, its possible, but not very likely.  Most players are going to enter the game and go down in MMR right away, and have to climb back up as they learn.  Its like learning to ride a bike can take hours if not days, but you could of not ridden a bike for 5 years and when you get on one, it only takes a few seconds and you are right back to being familiar.  Also, you already knew which internals/items to equip.

I'm curious to know who these bashers are that are spoon feeding the new players on the forums and then smashing them in the game, sounds pretty hypocritical if you ask me.

I bet you might of run into me, but I'm not spoon feeding anyone on the forums, I'm using a slingshot around here for christs sake.  I blame my MMR, I'm not good enough to get into the elitist lobbies (or there aren't any and if I do, I get slaughtered in the same manner you mentioned by players with 500 more MMR than me) and the only thing available are matches with players slightly below my MMR.  So its a matter of poor population in my case.

Many times when I notice a team is a man down, I sit out until another player joins, or ask a player on the opposite team to sit out if they are overmanned.  Some of the high ranking players apparently can't read english cause when I asked one of them them last night to sit out, they didn't even respond, just kept on smashing the team with 6 people on the AA.  Its even on archive on twitch, if you all want the link, and yeah they are one of the top 10 players of the game and had a man advantage almost the entire round, and just plain out refused to sit out.  The next match they did the same thing 3 vs 2, but that ones not on video cause the person streaming had left.

Camping the base is one of the fundamental flaws of siege mode and missile assault, its kind of hard to blame the players for doing it.

Any idea if these players that were always on the same team, in a party?  Cause that'd be a huge difference in the situation.  Were they also on VOIP and using it to communicate their tactics?

The balancer should put the highest and lowest MMR player on the same team, if only someone knew how the balancer actually calculates things, or we could see the MMR of each team separately.

I do have a theory though, that the player that MVP's the round is 95% of the time the best player in the room and the one with the highest MMR.  I'd like to actually see the data per round and see how many times that happens.  I'd bet a Double Double (animal style, no grilled onions) that my estimation is pretty darn close.
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#6 driedjello

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Posted September 21 2014 - 10:56 PM

View PostEliteShooter, on September 21 2014 - 10:11 PM, said:

Am I among those players with no sportsmanship?
Nope!
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#7 driedjello

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Posted September 21 2014 - 10:59 PM

View PostSS396, on September 21 2014 - 10:49 PM, said:

Thats an interesting experiment, but my take on it is that it was slightly flawed from the get go.  Your previous experience in the game is what made your stay in the lower ranks such a short amount of time.  You were able to get lots of points per round and most likely you MVP'd every round of those previous 7 due to your familiarity.  A "standard" player I don't think would be able to achieve that as easily, its possible, but not very likely.  Most players are going to enter the game and go down in MMR right away, and have to climb back up as they learn.  Its like learning to ride a bike can take hours if not days, but you could of not ridden a bike for 5 years and when you get on one, it only takes a few seconds and you are right back to being familiar.  Also, you already knew which internals/items to equip.

I'm curious to know who these bashers are that are spoon feeding the new players on the forums and then smashing them in the game, sounds pretty hypocritical if you ask me.

I bet you might of run into me, but I'm not spoon feeding anyone on the forums, I'm using a slingshot around here for christs sake.  I blame my MMR, I'm not good enough to get into the elitist lobbies (or there aren't any and if I do, I get slaughtered in the same manner you mentioned by players with 500 more MMR than me) and the only thing available are matches with players slightly below my MMR.  So its a matter of poor population in my case.

Many times when I notice a team is a man down, I sit out until another player joins, or ask a player on the opposite team to sit out if they are overmanned.  Some of the high ranking players apparently can't read english cause when I asked one of them them last night to sit out, they didn't even respond, just kept on smashing the team with 6 people on the AA.  Its even on archive on twitch, if you all want the link, and yeah they are one of the top 10 players of the game and had a man advantage almost the entire round, and just plain out refused to sit out.  The next match they did the same thing 3 vs 2, but that ones not on video cause the person streaming had left.

Camping the base is one of the fundamental flaws of siege mode and missile assault, its kind of hard to blame the players for doing it.

Any idea if these players that were always on the same team, in a party?  Cause that'd be a huge difference in the situation.  Were they also on VOIP and using it to communicate their tactics?

The balancer should put the highest and lowest MMR player on the same team, if only someone knew how the balancer actually calculates things, or we could see the MMR of each team separately.

I do have a theory though, that the player that MVP's the round is 95% of the time the best player in the room and the one with the highest MMR.  I'd like to actually see the data per round and see how many times that happens.  I'd bet a Double Double (animal style, no grilled onions) that my estimation is pretty darn close.

Yeah, I think I was at 1700 mmr by that time but my teammates didn't seem to be.  I would never accuse you of being nice but you wouldn't have said some of those things.  They weren't critical, critical even if delivered harshly has a point.  I have seen you cuss out your teammates but it had a point.

BTW, I have seen you sit off to side and I have taken a page from that book.  If my team is up and somebody quits the other side, I almost always type in the command line, "say sitting off to side until things balance out"
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"...Then I presume the complex murder algorithm that masquerades as his cerebral cortex was done analyzing my panicked stumbling and he flattened me."  -Amidatelion on Xacius.

#8 Spliff_Craven

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Posted September 22 2014 - 12:01 AM

Steam charts say  the new low reached tonight I might add is 211 players within the hour.

http://www.steamcharts.com/app/271290

It is the most accurate tracking information we have to go on.

#9 Interrobang87

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Posted September 22 2014 - 12:04 AM

It's not uncommon for 1700mmr players to have 2100+matched into their room. When you sit in the auto match queue for a couple minutes it just gives up and puts you in any room it can find.

Not tooting my horn here, just an example, i float around 22-300mmr and i regularly get placed in 1800 lobbies during non peak hours. However, i also play with mechs I'm not good with like pred and reaper when this occurs. But to each their own.

BUT x2, if I'm just trying to get some dailies in quick i don't sit out etc. because I'm trying to win dammit!

/end 2 cents

Edited by Interrobang87, September 22 2014 - 12:07 AM.

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#10 4H0L3

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Posted September 22 2014 - 12:05 AM

I think it is to blame that servers are reduced.
That squeezes all the players to same server no matter of the MMR range player are from.

First free spot and bam. Balance is gone - if the player joining happens to be significant enough. If that someone wants to farm his MMR... then sitting out during the game is out of question. Simple as that.

As I a was getting sometimes MVPs... I admit... that thought came into my mind too... these beginners on the server which barely had 30 points in total... they are probably gone forever.

#11 DerMax

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Posted September 22 2014 - 12:23 AM

Who are those people? Just name and shame them.

#12 Zycon

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Posted September 22 2014 - 12:31 AM

View PostDerMax, on September 22 2014 - 12:23 AM, said:

Who are those people? Just name and shame them.

You can't, forum rules forbid it.

#13 SS396

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Posted September 22 2014 - 01:08 AM

View PostDerMax, on September 22 2014 - 12:23 AM, said:

Who are those people? Just name and shame them.

I'll raise my hand, I constantly get into matches where the average is less than my MMR, I would bet that Double Double I bet earlier that I was in one of those lobbies with Jello's smurf yesterday or tonight.  His response really confused me.  I'm also not exactly running around here claiming I'm the Pope and I'm up for sainthood either.  :blink:

I played 2 matches tonight, one where I joined in late, and lambasted a reaper player in chat for camping right outside our base and shooting at the AA.  I blamed him as the reason our team lost, and said that if he just walked to the AA and stood there he would of gotten more XP.  Yeah, I admit I could of been nicer and not use the F-bomb every other word, but oh well I let my anger get to me.  Been kinda in a rowdy mood all day and shouldn't of taken it out on that reaper.   Do I think that the reaper player is gunna quit because some random person on the internet yelled at them?  No, I wouldn't I'd just sluff it off, but perhaps not everyone is able to do that and sometimes I don't consider that.  Maybe thats what Jello is talking about.  shrug.

Theres a group of players that roll around and they have compassion for the new players, where they will only use a lower build mech with no internals or just fire TOW's or widdle the new players health down to 50 and then stop and run off, I've seen it, we've laughed about it many times.  I've seen players that when they have the AA and they have the one man advantage, they just don't push past the AA into the enemies base.  That sort of kindness system was created in closed beta by a great group of people that used to play many matches for hours in one lobby and I've still seen it used recently.

I've also seen a pack of high tier players use raiders and chase everyone down and completely obliterate the other team while they were on teamspeak.

So there are both the good and the bad still around unfortunately.

Edited by SS396, September 22 2014 - 01:12 AM.

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#14 RunaPanda

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Posted September 22 2014 - 01:41 AM

Imo since I've done the same Jello. Both new and old players do quite a bit of mud slinging during and after the match. Gone are the days of sportsmanship, and say hello to the days of steam, where every little hairball from the fuzzy bunny group to adults, only unlike before tempers run wild and mud slinging happens quickly.

As far as sitting out goes, I've attempted to do the same but a old of older players (not naming names) will actually intentionally come looking for me to get easy kills. I've noticed this as a big growing trend with older vet players then with new players.
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#15 crockrocket

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Posted September 22 2014 - 01:45 AM

Personally, I've noticed from a combination of my real account and smurfs that ~1630 - 1700 is matchmaking hell. In that mmr range you almost always get placed in a 3 star lobby, but that is frequently a spread of +2000 to under 1400. This happens because of the very large percentage of players that aren't mmr locked from such a server. Consequently, the percentage of crappy matches is higher in this mmr zone. I can create a new smurf and rapidly break through this zone of crappy matchmaking to around 1800 mmr, because new accounts start in a n00by server. However, my actual account has been an absolute slog from 1630 to above 1700. I was at around 1400 when I started to understand the game, and from there it wasn't too hard to break 1600. Additionally, it has been a lot easier to increase my mmr now that I'm past 1700, because the frequency of me being on terrible teams has dropped significantly.

Anyway, I didn't mean for this to sound to conspiracy theory ish, but 1600 - 1700 mmr absolutely sucks.
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#16 crockrocket

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Posted September 22 2014 - 01:48 AM

deleted

Edited by crockrocket, September 22 2014 - 02:19 AM.

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#17 Odinous

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Posted September 22 2014 - 02:57 AM

View PostSpliff_Craven, on September 22 2014 - 12:01 AM, said:

Steam charts say  the new low reached tonight I might add is 211 players within the hour.

http://www.steamcharts.com/app/271290

It is the most accurate tracking information we have to go on.
How can it be accurate when whenever u post it says 250+ and whenever i check it it says 500+?You do realise that different hours says different results?fuzzy bunny the charts,we know we dont have many people,but believe me its not that low!


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24-hour peak

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Edited by Odinous, September 22 2014 - 02:58 AM.


#18 EliteShooter

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Posted September 22 2014 - 03:17 AM

View Postdriedjello, on September 21 2014 - 10:56 PM, said:

View PostEliteShooter, on September 21 2014 - 10:11 PM, said:

Am I among those players with no sportsmanship?
Nope!

I know I talk trash a lot, but I don't say it to newbies. Because I don't set high expectations from them. Also the past week I only played on sat night. Though I suspected that I might be among the people who hurt yo feels :D

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#19 Jonnywithanh

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Posted September 22 2014 - 03:31 AM

Well aside from one guy constantly swearing in French in the chat, it seems to be a different story on EU servers. As I am sure most of you are aware the Hawken community is pretty small but nearly everyone on the EU side of things is polite. People always say hi and goodbye at the appropriate juncture and if someone on the team is not doing so well I have yet to see them be verbally abused in any way. Maybe I should set up a smurf and see what it is like for a noob on EU. Thanks for the insight Mr Jello.

#20 Dawn_of_Ash

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Posted September 22 2014 - 05:30 AM


View PostJonnywithanh, on September 22 2014 - 03:31 AM, said:

Well aside from one guy constantly swearing in French in the chat, it seems to be a different story on EU servers. As I am sure most of you are aware the Hawken community is pretty small but nearly everyone on the EU side of things is polite. People always say hi and goodbye at the appropriate juncture and if someone on the team is not doing so well I have yet to see them be verbally abused in any way. Maybe I should set up a smurf and see what it is like for a noob on EU. Thanks for the insight Mr Jello.


I do agree with you - my home community was also very polite until we all...left. First week when the AU server got shut down, and the weeks leading up to that when the server was dying, I have felt negative language being thrown at me from the US servers, although I think that was because I did not know the people I was playing against. It seemed to happen more often when the game had first came out on Steam...






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