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Height ceiling on maps is to low


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#1 Gagzila

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Posted October 26 2012 - 02:03 AM

Hey All,

I've just gotten the Beta (wasn't in Alpha testing) and have been playing some offline games. Straight away on each map I noticed so many areas that were easily accessible with my jump jets yet were invisibly blocked with an accompanying "max altitude" warning, even though I could fly much higher in other parts of the map. I quickly found this very frustrating as I ran into it quite a lot, the below quote from an old thread on the matter I think sums up my thoughts on it quite well:

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"I agree with the notion that the height limit should be removed, or at the very least "raised". It seems somewhat counter-intuitive to set a game in an urban setting and then limit the player on which buildings they can scale. An unlimited available height seems ripe for exploits, of course; but the frustration of hovering exactly around the roof of a building, but being unable to surmount it, feels a lot worse."

I do think some limit needs to be enforced to stop players simply flying over the whole map but I think this is already controlled quite well by your limited energy and the rate at which it burns versus your air speed.

I started out in this game feeling completely free in movement choice but every time I run into more of these invisible ceilings, I feel more and more hemmed in and snaps me straight out of my immersion in the game.

What do others think?

Cheers,

Gagzila

Edited by Gagzila, October 26 2012 - 02:04 AM.

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#2 BreShiE

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Posted October 26 2012 - 02:05 AM

How can you get on? 99% of us are getting "Unable to download metafile".

#3 Luftwaffle

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Posted October 26 2012 - 02:13 AM

I completely agree. Many times while exploring (especially on Titan) I thought to myself "Hey, I'll jump to that ledge", only to just barely be able/be unable to get high enough to do so due to the max height indicator.

Also, the invisible height barriers over some ledges were also an immersion-breaking pain. Nothing is less fun than invisible boundary walls when you're trying to explore.
If you can't stand the HEAT, stay out of the map.

#4 Gagzila

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Posted October 26 2012 - 02:14 AM

View PostBreShiE, on October 26 2012 - 02:05 AM, said:

How can you get on? 99% of us are getting "Unable to download metafile".

Manually launch the exe ;)

http://community.pla...ile/#entry70157

Edited by Gagzila, October 26 2012 - 02:15 AM.

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#5 b411istic_b411b4g

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Posted October 26 2012 - 02:29 AM

thanks!

#6 Rotaken

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Posted October 26 2012 - 02:33 AM

Hated the altitude limit from start. Not necessary because there's already that fuel. And it runs out pretty fast.

#7 Roundlay

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Posted October 26 2012 - 02:46 AM

The max altitude of each mech seems to be based on your starting position. That is, I was able to get to the top of the highest structure within each of the bases on MA-Titan.

#8 Gagzila

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Posted October 26 2012 - 02:53 AM

View PostRoundlay, on October 26 2012 - 02:46 AM, said:

The max altitude of each mech seems to be based on your starting position. That is, I was able to get to the top of the highest structure within each of the bases on MA-Titan.

Sorry that doesn't make sense, can you expand a bit more on your theory?

Cheers,

Gagzila
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#9 Luftwaffle

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Posted October 26 2012 - 02:59 AM

I think he means the starting position when you first lift off the ground.
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#10 FluentFox

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Posted October 26 2012 - 03:06 AM

How are you actually playing? I can launch via the .exe, but when I press Deploy I can't find any way of starting an offline game...

Cheers!
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#11 Luftwaffle

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Posted October 26 2012 - 03:09 AM

View PostFluentFox, on October 26 2012 - 03:06 AM, said:

How are you actually playing? I can launch via the .exe, but when I press Deploy I can't find any way of starting an offline game...

Cheers!
Here y'go!
If you can't stand the HEAT, stay out of the map.

#12 FluxX

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Posted October 26 2012 - 03:14 AM

View PostRoundlay, on October 26 2012 - 02:46 AM, said:

The max altitude of each mech seems to be based on your starting position. That is, I was able to get to the top of the highest structure within each of the bases on MA-Titan.
As far as I know, it might be based on the starting position, but drops off pretty fast to what is below your mech. So if your 20m up, jump to a 30m building, but have a flight limit of 15m, the road being 20m beneath you sadly prevents you from making the 10m extra jump (numbers illustrative, not actual). Can anyone confirm this? It means you have to be really quick not to fall back down onto the road when jumping across buildings and very annoying. :P

But if you master it, you can jump across quite easily.

#13 Roundlay

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Posted October 26 2012 - 03:16 AM

View PostLuftwaffle, on October 26 2012 - 02:59 AM, said:

I think he means the starting position when you first lift off the ground.

This.


View PostGagzila, on October 26 2012 - 02:53 AM, said:

Sorry that doesn't make sense, can you expand a bit more on your theory?

Sure.

The max altitude potential of each mech appears to be independent of the environment. For example, getting to the uppermost (nonclippable) point in either of the MA-Titan bases involves thrusting on to and between multiple platforms of varying height.

#14 FluentFox

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Posted October 26 2012 - 03:19 AM

Do I have to enable the console, Luft?

Usually to bring up the console I press the ` key, but the thread says to press ~ which is under # and I have to press shift to type it.

The console isn't appearing whatever I press.

Any ideas at all?

SOLVED: Switched Keyboard from English (UK) to English (US). ` now enables console.

Edited by FluentFox, October 26 2012 - 03:27 AM.

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#15 Subdivision

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Posted October 26 2012 - 03:25 AM

The height restriction works depending how high off the floor below you, you are. I feel the addition of jump pads and these restrictions it means map navigation is more essential than just going any place you choose and then jumping over anything you please. Plus to me it isn't counter intuitive at all because you're in mech after all and you're essentially levitating yourself upwards on a cushion of air or something to that effect which would limit the high potential. Also, jumping from a high platform to another using the boost mechanism works well. Once you learn the maps it should become clear where good places to be and move around are.

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#16 Scapes

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Posted October 26 2012 - 04:21 AM

View PostGagzila, on October 26 2012 - 02:03 AM, said:

Straight away on each map I noticed so many areas that were easily accessible with my jump jets yet were invisibly blocked with an accompanying "max altitude" warning, even though I could fly much higher in other parts of the map.

The "max altitude" refers to the height your mech is capable of hovering above the surface below it. You aren't hitting an invisible ceiling; your mech simply cannot hover any higher above the ground. To climb to new heights, you'll want to hover over incrementally taller platforms which will send your mech skyward again. Think of it as your mech "pushing" off the surface beneath it. This will allow you to scale many of the buildings in HAWKEN's maps.
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#17 Gagzila

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Posted October 26 2012 - 04:22 AM

I think I understand what your saying Fluxx but doesn't really make logical sense to implement into gameplay. I think it's more just enforced height ceilings in certain parts of the maps where they don't want people going, but some of these areas I cannot think why that would be...

I understand the concept of leap frogging off higher and higher ledges to get somewhere not normally within reach of a single jump and did it myself during my offline games but is not really related to the issue I am speaking off.

I also understand that you shouldn't be able to just go anywhere but if a platform is easily within reach of your jump jets you should be able to get on it. I think on DM-Alleys there are a couple of pillars in a more open area where a ramp leads to a lower area. You can't get on one of the pillars in the middle area as it "max altitudes" you even with energy still left to burn, yet a higher pillar near the edge of the map in the same area can be accessed by leap frogging from lower platforms, I think one of the jumps is actually higher than the pillar you can't get on. The map simply doesn't allow you onto this certain pillar which doesn't make sense and is frustrating to feel that invisible wall on something that looks like you should be able to reach and land on.

I just feel the map design should be a little more clever in making these areas inaccessible instead of invisible ceilings.

Cheers,

Gagzila
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#18 Gagzila

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Posted October 26 2012 - 04:48 AM

View PostScapes, on October 26 2012 - 04:21 AM, said:

The "max altitude" refers to the height your mech is capable of hovering above the surface below it. You aren't hitting an invisible ceiling; your mech simply cannot hover any higher above the ground. To climb to new heights, you'll want to hover over incrementally taller platforms which will send your mech skyward again. Think of it as your mech "pushing" off the surface beneath it. This will allow you to scale many of the buildings in HAWKEN's maps.

Hi Scapes,

That makes perfect sense, thanks for explaining it. I obviously just didn't think along those lines to begin with, I thought it was more a continues linear propulsion system that kept lifting you till your energy ran out.

That pretty much concludes this thread, feel free to lock it if you like :)

Cheers,

Gagzila

Edited by Gagzila, October 26 2012 - 04:48 AM.

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#19 Spiderz

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Posted October 26 2012 - 04:59 AM

View PostScapes, on October 26 2012 - 04:21 AM, said:

View PostGagzila, on October 26 2012 - 02:03 AM, said:

Straight away on each map I noticed so many areas that were easily accessible with my jump jets yet were invisibly blocked with an accompanying "max altitude" warning, even though I could fly much higher in other parts of the map.

The "max altitude" refers to the height your mech is capable of hovering above the surface below it. You aren't hitting an invisible ceiling; your mech simply cannot hover any higher above the ground. To climb to new heights, you'll want to hover over incrementally taller platforms which will send your mech skyward again. Think of it as your mech "pushing" off the surface beneath it. This will allow you to scale many of the buildings in HAWKEN's maps.

i'd like to add that from my experience playing this game (and even watching the IGN commentary LOL) whenever you boost to the edge of a ledge of building you are looking forward and you can't really see your feet and often you don't make it all the way and faceplant, sometimes your feet are even slightly on the ledge you just slip off

in other popular shooters, a recent example being Dishonored, when you reached the ledge or the very edge of the ledge your player climbs/vaults up onto it, while this animation couldn't be done in Hawken because Hawkens mechs have guns, not hands - i'm sure you could implement some sort of animation that would confirm your footing on the edge of a building/structure, such as press F to grapple or similar, maybe have the claw of your feet grab on or something etc, it would solve the current boost/pray situation we have now, the boost pads don't completely solve it unfortunately
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#20 Gagzila

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Posted October 26 2012 - 05:38 AM

Yeah I was talking earlier with Spiderz about the grappling thing which I thought could be a good idea in regards to the melee weapon topic...sacrifice one of your weapons for an arm with a big 4 fingered mechanical claw like device that can be used to inflict melee damage on other mechs or tear into the side of building with the fingers to basically grab on and hang there off the side of the building, making for some interesting and diverse defensive or ambush tactics.

Cheers,

Gagzila
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