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Siege Battleships: Problem


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#1 Brycko

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Posted May 08 2014 - 08:03 AM

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who is bugged by this:
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Don't get me wrong, I love siege, but I feel as if this is a bit of an issue. Battles do not work like this. You do not stand in front of someone and fire at each other until the other is destroyed. Is it possible to make battleships go around each other and not at each other? Can battleships please pass by each other instead of going with head-to-head combat? I'm sure it is possible to battle each other on the from the sides, since the turrets rotate. I'm quite inspired by how destroyers in Star Wars: The Clone Wars attack each other from the side.

Also, do ships fire at each other, or is it just the work of the base defenses and the AA beating at your battleship? Battleships should attack each other, if they don't already. The air battle should be more epic than it is at the moment anyway, emphasizing a larger battle overall , a more grand battle. More action. Please.

What happened to the missile turrets on battleships? Now that battleships are not firing at mechs, couldn't a missile turret be added again? (Just one?) Maybe weaker than the original. Smaller.

Finally, a suggestion: Although it was a bit overpowered, I like the interactivity of the ships with the mechs, firing at enemies on the ground. I thought, what if the battleship could tell it was in danger when the anti-air is activated, then fires random bursts at the enemy on the ground, causing them to scatter for cover? Just to show some sort of self-defense. (This doesn't necessarily correlate with the idea above)

I my opinion, battleships need a rework. I enjoyed the days when they were more interactive with the ground forces/skirmishes. I also feel that with the fast action of the mechs on the ground, the battleships are slow and slow down the gameplay. They could be slightly quicker, making the gameplay faster and more intense.

Thoughts? Comments? Additions? Opinions?

#2 TTU_Phoenix

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Posted May 08 2014 - 08:16 AM

Battleships do attack each other.  It's one reason you want to target the turrets if two ships are up at once, since destroying the other ship's turrets will reduce the damage it deals to your ship.  They don't seem to do a ton of damage to each other though, unless they're both up there a long time.

I was actually thinking that it'd be cool if battleships could shoot at mechs, but now I'm not so sure.  If you manage to flee from an enemy or the aa at almost no hp, and finally find a safe spot to repair, it'd be really, really irritating if the battleship just picks you off when you're about to save yourself.  Maybe the battleship only should shoot at mechs when mechs are shooting at it?  So if players start shooting the ship, it might start lobbing a few Hellfires back or something.

#3 ropefish

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Posted May 08 2014 - 08:31 AM

View PostTTU_Phoenix, on May 08 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

Battleships do attack each other.  It's one reason you want to target the turrets if two ships are up at once, since destroying the other ship's turrets will reduce the damage it deals to your ship.  They don't seem to do a ton of damage to each other though, unless they're both up there a long time.

I was actually thinking that it'd be cool if battleships could shoot at mechs, but now I'm not so sure.  If you manage to flee from an enemy or the aa at almost no hp, and finally find a safe spot to repair, it'd be really, really irritating if the battleship just picks you off when you're about to save yourself.  Maybe the battleship only should shoot at mechs when mechs are shooting at it?  So if players start shooting the ship, it might start lobbing a few Hellfires back or something.
they used to shoot mechs, it sucked
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View PostDaPheel, on October 26 2013 - 01:05 AM, said:

You don't nuke Ropefish : ROPEFISH NUKES YOU!

#4 Zdragow

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Posted May 08 2014 - 08:48 AM

The battleships are working perfectly.

I think people are forgetting that the year is 1806 and we are hot in the middle of the Napoleonic Wars.

Standing in front of each other and shooting until death is the most advanced tactic ever devised.

#5 Brycko

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Posted May 08 2014 - 09:56 AM

View PostTTU_Phoenix, on May 08 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

Battleships do attack each other.  It's one reason you want to target the turrets if two ships are up at once, since destroying the other ship's turrets will reduce the damage it deals to your ship.  They don't seem to do a ton of damage to each other though, unless they're both up there a long time.

I was actually thinking that it'd be cool if battleships could shoot at mechs, but now I'm not so sure.  If you manage to flee from an enemy or the aa at almost no hp, and finally find a safe spot to repair, it'd be really, really irritating if the battleship just picks you off when you're about to save yourself.  Maybe the battleship only should shoot at mechs when mechs are shooting at it?  So if players start shooting the ship, it might start lobbing a few Hellfires back or something.

Like Ropefish said, there was a time when the battleships did fire at mechs, but it was pretty OP. (The turret tracking was pretty insane)      I wasn't a massive fan of it, but it did remind you that the battleships were there, and were an active part in the game. I'm not saying re-implement this, i'm trying to maintain interest in the battleships. Firing a few bursts at a time at a group of enemies is basic but not incredibly overpowered because it isn't concentrating on just one mech (like before ascension). I'm trying to suggest that machine-gun spreads be like a freak-hailstorm, where it is not enough to do really serious damage but enough to shock and send people running for cover.

About the dashing-for-repair, again, i'm thinking more about concentrating on groups of enemies, and not a single enemy. If you're dashing for repairs, you are separating yourself from that group, and moving out of the turret's range, so it cannot fire at you. Lets say 4+people are taking the AA. They are all within a certain radius of each other, which registers them as a target. The turret than fires within that radius that the team is in. They scatter and dash for cover, where the turret stops firing and has a cooldown period.

#6 hellc9943

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Posted May 08 2014 - 02:23 PM

View PostBrycko, on May 08 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

Lets say 4+people are taking the AA. They are all within a certain radius of each other, which registers them as a target. The turret than fires within that radius that the team is in. They scatter and dash for cover, where the turret stops firing and has a cooldown period.

I'd rather see the battleship targeting the AA when it is in enemy hands, otherwise it would be even harder to take the AA. It should be the battleship's priority target anyway and could help to make a push. There's enough cover on the AA to take shelter so one wouldn't have to flee from it but and get forced to give up a superior position.

#7 ropefish

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Posted May 08 2014 - 02:36 PM

View PostBrycko, on May 08 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

View PostTTU_Phoenix, on May 08 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

Battleships do attack each other.  It's one reason you want to target the turrets if two ships are up at once, since destroying the other ship's turrets will reduce the damage it deals to your ship.  They don't seem to do a ton of damage to each other though, unless they're both up there a long time.

I was actually thinking that it'd be cool if battleships could shoot at mechs, but now I'm not so sure.  If you manage to flee from an enemy or the aa at almost no hp, and finally find a safe spot to repair, it'd be really, really irritating if the battleship just picks you off when you're about to save yourself.  Maybe the battleship only should shoot at mechs when mechs are shooting at it?  So if players start shooting the ship, it might start lobbing a few Hellfires back or something.

Like Ropefish said, there was a time when the battleships did fire at mechs, but it was pretty OP. (The turret tracking was pretty insane)   I wasn't a massive fan of it, but it did remind you that the battleships were there, and were an active part in the game. I'm not saying re-implement this, i'm trying to maintain interest in the battleships. Firing a few bursts at a time at a group of enemies is basic but not incredibly overpowered because it isn't concentrating on just one mech (like before ascension). I'm trying to suggest that machine-gun spreads be like a freak-hailstorm, where it is not enough to do really serious damage but enough to shock and send people running for cover.

About the dashing-for-repair, again, i'm thinking more about concentrating on groups of enemies, and not a single enemy. If you're dashing for repairs, you are separating yourself from that group, and moving out of the turret's range, so it cannot fire at you. Lets say 4+people are taking the AA. They are all within a certain radius of each other, which registers them as a target. The turret than fires within that radius that the team is in. They scatter and dash for cover, where the turret stops firing and has a cooldown period.
and before that! they were player controlled i the early early alpha days
"I find that there are those who will hang themselves if you give them enough rope, and that there are those who will provide their own rope. "
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View PostDaPheel, on October 26 2013 - 01:05 AM, said:

You don't nuke Ropefish : ROPEFISH NUKES YOU!

#8 nokari

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Posted May 08 2014 - 02:50 PM

I agree that the interaction between battleships can be improved. It would be cooler and make more sense if they circled each other on their way to the bases rather than sit there staring at each other like idiots.

Low TTK at this point means that battleship turrets will cause even quicker and easier deaths, which would give whichever team has a battleship alone in the air the greater advantage of stomping the other team. Before it was mostly a nuisance that you simply needed to be mindful of if you were standing out in the open, because TTK was much longer than it is now. With that change to TTK, turrets become a much larger threat. I think the way they work now is fine.

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#9 IronClamp

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Posted May 09 2014 - 07:23 AM

Here's an idea for the battleships shooting down on axes thing: utilize the spot enemy feature. (I know some people have externally modified their controls so that the Q key is a strafe-boost left, but that's their problem.) This could be used to guide the battle ships guns, if an enemy gets "spotted", ie you hit the Q key, the battleship, if not already engaged with the enemy battleship, will fire a short burst on that target. This will also give you a bit more incentive to attack the battleship's turrets if your being fired on.

This would give the team trying to defend their battleship and obtain the AA an advantage, but also doesn't make them OP, given that most AA's are engineered to have some kind of nearby cover within the AA's objective area. Another solution to the OP concern is to force the battleship to behave like an axe when firing upon axes, ie give the turrets a low accuracy rating and make it so that they have to have un obstructed visual contact to fire on the target, a logical step so that you don't have a just launched battleship hammering enemies that it shouldn't be able to see. This also means that the battleship's only mildly reliable since in maps like Wreckage, Last Eco, Front lines, Origin, etc. have tall structures/overgrowth that visually shield the ground from the sky.

And if damage per round is a problem, and accuracy isn't gonna fix it, then two solutions:
1) Nerf the turrets.
2) Create a second turret class, "anti-AXE", that is specifically mean't to fire on axes (low accuracy, low damage).

"Or maybe we'll just have to go through you"


#10 Brycko

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Posted May 09 2014 - 08:29 AM

View Posthellc9943, on May 08 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

View PostBrycko, on May 08 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

Lets say 4+people are taking the AA. They are all within a certain radius of each other, which registers them as a target. The turret than fires within that radius that the team is in. They scatter and dash for cover, where the turret stops firing and has a cooldown period.

I'd rather see the battleship targeting the AA when it is in enemy hands, otherwise it would be even harder to take the AA. It should be the battleship's priority target anyway and could help to make a push. There's enough cover on the AA to take shelter so one wouldn't have to flee from it but and get forced to give up a superior position.

I did say this in the first post... I guess i changed it to whilst the AA was being taken, and not wen the AA had been taken by the enemy. Sorry for the mixup.

Also, Last Eco is a Siege map, but unfortunately it offers little to no cover for those defending the AA. They have the trees above, however, which could provide protection from the battleship's turrets.

#11 PhasmaFelis

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Posted May 09 2014 - 08:52 AM

I have a theory that the battleships can't actually turn at all. They can only fly forward in a straight line, or stop.

You can't expect much from a navy that builds battery-powered battleships and then forgets to lay a cable from the generator to the dock.

#12 Brycko

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Posted May 09 2014 - 09:04 AM

View PostPhasmaFelis, on May 09 2014 - 08:52 AM, said:

I have a theory that the battleships can't actually turn at all. They can only fly forward in a straight line, or stop.

You can't expect much from a navy that builds battery-powered battleships and then forgets to lay a cable from the generator to the dock.

I'm pretty sure they can turn, I either saw this in the early open beta or in some sort of demo. They don't tilt or anything, and the turning is pretty discrete. But it does exist. And it does work well. It is smooth and is definitely a function. The only real problem the devs have is making logical pathing. Check out some of the demos. I'm sure you can see turning battleships there.

#13 Call_Me_Ishmael

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Posted May 09 2014 - 10:19 AM

View PostIronClamp, on May 09 2014 - 07:23 AM, said:

[font=play, helvetica, arial, sans-serif](I know some people have externally modified their controls so that the Q key is a strafe-boost left, but that's their problem.)[/font]

Unrelated to the topic at hand: This explains some facehugging flakscout action.  Thank you.  I'd noticed the effect ,but never bound it to a key macro.
Posted Image

#14 IronClamp

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Posted May 09 2014 - 05:16 PM

View PostBrycko, on May 09 2014 - 08:29 AM, said:

Also, Last Eco is a Siege map, but unfortunately it offers little to no cover for those defending the AA. They have the trees above, however, which could provide protection from the battleship's turrets.

Last Eco is a problem, but the battle ship has to be DIRECTLY over the AA in order to be effective. I also said that the turrets would have to have visual contact in order to even attack the enemy targets, and in game language, visual contact means that there are no meshes (this is also leaves) are obstructing the turret's line of sight (an imaginary line pointing out from the turret).

(I'm not trying to talk down, but trying to portray how this might work in an educational fashion)

Edited by IronClamp, May 09 2014 - 05:21 PM.

"Or maybe we'll just have to go through you"


#15 Brycko

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Posted May 17 2014 - 02:00 AM

View PostIronClamp, on May 09 2014 - 05:16 PM, said:

View PostBrycko, on May 09 2014 - 08:29 AM, said:

Also, Last Eco is a Siege map, but unfortunately it offers little to no cover for those defending the AA. They have the trees above, however, which could provide protection from the battleship's turrets.

Last Eco is a problem, but the battle ship has to be DIRECTLY over the AA in order to be effective. I also said that the turrets would have to have visual contact in order to even attack the enemy targets, and in game language, visual contact means that there are no meshes (this is also leaves) are obstructing the turret's line of sight (an imaginary line pointing out from the turret).

(I'm not trying to talk down, but trying to portray how this might work in an educational fashion)

Thanks for explaining it better. I needed some constructive criticism/enlightenment.

Edited by Brycko, May 17 2014 - 08:47 AM.


#16 camtheking20

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Posted May 28 2014 - 02:52 PM

View PostPhasmaFelis, on May 09 2014 - 08:52 AM, said:

I have a theory that the battleships can't actually turn at all. They can only fly forward in a straight line, or stop.

You can't expect much from a navy that builds battery-powered battleships and then forgets to lay a cable from the generator to the dock.

Yea it is a navy full of  mercs

#17 Meraple

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Posted May 30 2014 - 06:15 AM

You know what the real problem with a Siege Battleship is?
Apples.
And raspberries.
Hmm..
I'm hungry.

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Spoiler


#18 EliteShooter

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Posted June 01 2014 - 03:57 AM

Siege is fine, just make the EU fallen from battleships in the zones players can reach.

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#19 ThatDamnedBoedy

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Posted August 06 2014 - 12:15 PM

Siege would be fine if people would stop being useless *not on the aa* snipers.

#20 IronClamp

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Posted August 10 2014 - 04:28 PM

Snipers help get people on the AA.

I'm a sniper and I'm okay, I stalk all night and I roost all day. Ohhhhh, I'm a sniper and I'm okay....

"Or maybe we'll just have to go through you"





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