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Death Ballen , Why it happends and how to stop it.


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#1 Source_Mystic

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Posted October 14 2014 - 12:47 PM

The dreaded unholy death ball that rolls over your team and seems nothing can stop.

Yes every hawken player even the good ones have seen the squshy side of hawken boot.

Why does it happen ?  What if anything can you do to stop and reverse it .

Reasons for the death ball

1 Pure skill defisite teams are not ballenced (fuzzy bunny happends) NOT MUCH CAN BE DONE IN THIS CASE. Except get better.

2 Utter lack of team work (LONE WOLF SYNDROME)

3 Running into traps 3 or 4 vs 1 ( no one in this game can take on 4 on 1 and come out alive.)

4 Too manny of one type of meck ( Two tech or two predators are not really a asset unless you both are incredible.) This also goes for all a class mecks on tdm vs a more rounded team with a , b and c mecks.

5 Inturnals and items some inturnals and items synergise very well with certen mechs add to that a skilled piolt and a tech. That will get the death ball rolling.

6 If one team has a tech and the other does not.  

7 Running team formations to close where every one is steping on teammates and making it impossable to move efficacy.

8 A good incinerater running pappa  and a shadow tech ( That is what I call a teck that stays in the shadow of a c class so it is difficult to hit them.

9 lack of commuinaction ( Not spotting enemys and calling them out) In game  viop could  solve this but what can you do.

10 The players are new and have not gotten into the swing of hawken have no inturnals. ( In this case cut them some slack give them some constructive advice and for gods sake do not alinate new players .  We want to keep player base not alienate them. This in it self is relly important  for the game and the
commuinty .

Well that is all I can think of off the top of my head if you think of any more please add them with a solution .

Want to stop the death ball ... my advice when a team gets 3 or more kills fast look at why .... and react if they have a tech kill him first and add a tech to your team.

   If  you have a bunch of yolo , lone wolfs ether do your best or leave the game. Personaly I stick around and try to support my team  and commuinacate with them.  I look at it as a  learning experance and it has made me a better defencive support player.


If you assertain why the death ball in happing early and react you can reverse it that being said there are some games that can not be saved at a ceerten point.

Edited by Source_Mystic, October 14 2014 - 12:53 PM.


#2 ReEvolve

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Posted October 14 2014 - 12:55 PM

View PostSource_Mystic, on October 14 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

What if anything can you do to stop and reverse it .

1. Keep calm. Don't worry.
2. Throw your EMP into the fray.



No really, one or more timed EMPs and some teamwork can break up death balls pretty quickly. :)

#3 Source_Mystic

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Posted October 14 2014 - 01:00 PM

thanks for the laugh and the info ... add me in game if you like humor is  always welcome.

Edited by Source_Mystic, October 14 2014 - 01:01 PM.


#4 EliteShooter

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Posted October 14 2014 - 01:04 PM

I miss hobo :(

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#5 LoC_TR

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Posted October 14 2014 - 01:09 PM

Tdm is the only game mode where death balls can be maintained for extended periods of time, the whole game in fact...

How to prevent death balls, play MA more.

Edited by LoC_TR, October 14 2014 - 01:09 PM.

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#6 Jonnywithanh

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Posted October 14 2014 - 01:15 PM

I once saw a guy who used to play this game who went by the name of Ohbos take 5 players down by himself. It was like that bit in the matrix where Neo becomes super aware and doesn't even need to concentrate to win. I find if the team switches up classes in this deathball situation then you have a bigger HP pool so it makes their deathball tactic less effective. Sometimes there isn't much you can do but having more HP on your team means having more time to take a few of them out and hopefully break up the oncoming mech wall of destruction.

#7 Badtings

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Posted October 14 2014 - 01:27 PM

That's a tough one.

As you've listed... there are a whole host of reasons why that happens.

EMPs and choke points. Knowing what mechs to play... all that fits in, however it's also situational.

can be any of those things and a combination of many.

It's what keeps Hawken interesting. And why I love playing so much.
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#8 Sylhiri

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Posted October 14 2014 - 01:33 PM

View PostLoC_TR, on October 14 2014 - 01:09 PM, said:

How to prevent death balls, play MA more.

Pretty much.

[13:14] <nonsiccus_work> uh oh

there's gravy in my keyboard

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[11:18] <+shosca> if you wanna play ar, go play zerker
[11:18] <Hyginos> and if you want to play zerker, go smc
[11:19] <someone> if you want to play sustain, please go and die in hell


#9 Flifang

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Posted October 14 2014 - 01:59 PM

the most common reason I have seen is a team of mostly a's who assume their team will be there when the dive in. and there's usually like at least 3 people feeding this way. I have been one, both purposefully and unintentionally. it depends on if my team is being an fuzzy bunny hole or not

#10 Coboxite

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Posted October 14 2014 - 02:22 PM

I think the real problem is that there is no good counter mech for it, all the mechs are built for one on one encounters, the only good AOE mechs are the Gren(But only REV-GL gren) and Incinerator(Also good at causing deathballs).

#11 ReachH

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Posted October 14 2014 - 02:24 PM

So to summarize your advice:

1. Get at least one tech.

Edited by ReachH, October 14 2014 - 02:24 PM.

View Post[HWK]HUGHES, on October 23 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

Development happens.


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#12 Sylhiri

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Posted October 14 2014 - 02:26 PM

View PostCoboxite, on October 14 2014 - 02:22 PM, said:

I think the real problem is that there is no good counter mech for it, all the mechs are built for one on one encounters, the only good AOE mechs are the Gren(But only REV-GL gren) and Incinerator(Also good at causing deathballs).

Funny how they made a mech to lessen deathballs only to make the situation worse as it's health and DPS make it an ideal mech to start a deathball, lol. Also that it's classified as a "Support" that has a much damage as a non-support mech and gets even better at contributing to a deathball when paired with the only other support mech in the game, Technician.

Edited by Sylhiri, October 14 2014 - 02:29 PM.

[13:14] <nonsiccus_work> uh oh

there's gravy in my keyboard

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[11:18] <+shosca> if you wanna play ar, go play zerker
[11:18] <Hyginos> and if you want to play zerker, go smc
[11:19] <someone> if you want to play sustain, please go and die in hell


#13 Source_Mystic

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Posted October 14 2014 - 03:26 PM

Incinerater is not invencable even with a tech.   A good sharpshooter , pred , heat scout  can counter the  incinerater. Personaly I go eoc repeater with predator. Focus  in the tech witch takes all of 2 or 3 Seconds then create a minfeald around the incinerater. If one other person asists me even easer.

#14 Flifang

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Posted October 14 2014 - 03:54 PM

a fix to everything:focus fire. so often do I see people complaining about an enemy technician when all it would take is two people simultaneously shooting their heal target for a few moments. unfortunately most don't have even that much of an attention span. nobody follows through either. it's like driving if you pull out into traffic you need to commit. I have had so many teams get rolled because one or two people chicken out halfway through a push to go and heal dooming us all

#15 ThirdEyE

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Posted October 14 2014 - 04:00 PM

View PostSource_Mystic, on October 14 2014 - 03:26 PM, said:

Incinerater is not invencable even with a tech.   A good sharpshooter , pred , heat scout  can counter the  incinerater. Personaly I go eoc repeater with predator. Focus  in the tech witch takes all of 2 or 3 Seconds then create a minfeald around the incinerater. If one other person asists me even easer.

For Tech assassinating, Breacher is a much better option than EOCR.  Use your charged shot and follow that up with an uncharged shot with an EOCP mine or two and they're dead in just about 1 second.  If you can land all the damage it's enough to kill any A class.
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#16 Source_Mystic

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Posted October 14 2014 - 04:30 PM

View PostThirdEyE, on October 14 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

View PostSource_Mystic, on October 14 2014 - 03:26 PM, said:

Incinerater is not invencable even with a tech.   A good sharpshooter , pred , heat scout  can counter the  incinerater. Personaly I go eoc repeater with predator. Focus  in the tech witch takes all of 2 or 3 Seconds then create a minfeald around the incinerater. If one other person asists me even easer.

For Tech assassinating, Breacher is a much better option than EOCR.  Use your charged shot and follow that up with an uncharged shot with an EOCP mine or two and they're dead in just about 1 second.  If you can land all the damage it's enough to kill any A class.

  I am sure that is the case for most but I stand by eoc repeater. Just a matter of choosing your poisen. The eoc repeater  is my new go to . but then I love me some burst dammage.

#17 Sylhiri

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Posted October 14 2014 - 05:10 PM

View PostSource_Mystic, on October 14 2014 - 03:26 PM, said:

Incinerater is not invencable even with a tech.

I don't think anyone suggested that was the case.

[13:14] <nonsiccus_work> uh oh

there's gravy in my keyboard

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[11:18] <+shosca> if you wanna play ar, go play zerker
[11:18] <Hyginos> and if you want to play zerker, go smc
[11:19] <someone> if you want to play sustain, please go and die in hell


#18 Akrium

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Posted October 14 2014 - 05:13 PM

Couple things to clear up that I have read:

1) Ohbos was exceptionally good, but him killing multiple people at once was more pre-Ascension than post-Ascension. When the game first started and the fights were longer, good tactics and good timing netted a good player a LOT more than it does now. Even I used to take on 3v1 and win from time to time back then. Sadly those days are gone.

2) The incinerator and the grenadier are AoD mechs. That is.. area of denial mechs. Their role was to help clear out nodes in Siege/MA. Turns out they can be quite overly spammy though and be used in other ways than just area denial. Their role was NOT to break down death balls, as deaths balls were not even a thing for the majority of this game's life.

3) The general cause of deathballs was a combination of a multitude of things. The radar drastically getting reduced so you had less information which made you feel less willing to lone wolf, the tech being introduced which also lead to less lone wolf and eventually the lowering of the over all TTK of the game. If you want to fix deathballs, you need to change the core parts of the current game. Which, I wouldn't expect to happen this late in development.

4) As others have stated, emps work great at beating up tight packs of people. Combine that with sight denial and you can cause a lot of confusion. But it takes a team to beat a team. Just remember that.

#19 angryhampster

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Posted October 14 2014 - 05:56 PM

i found my own ways to stop the death ball on my own........

and i refuse to share it.......
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#20 Sylhiri

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Posted October 14 2014 - 06:07 PM

View PostAkrium, on October 14 2014 - 05:13 PM, said:

...as deaths balls were not even a thing for the majority of this game's life.

Deathballs have been a thing for a very long time. Started with A class wolfpacks and continued on since at least near the start of Open Beta. It's just easier and safer to kill in a group unless your forced to play objective gameplay like MA where the focus is split between two or more areas.

Edited by Sylhiri, October 14 2014 - 06:09 PM.

[13:14] <nonsiccus_work> uh oh

there's gravy in my keyboard

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[11:18] <+shosca> if you wanna play ar, go play zerker
[11:18] <Hyginos> and if you want to play zerker, go smc
[11:19] <someone> if you want to play sustain, please go and die in hell





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