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Auto-Balance


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Poll: Team Auto-Balance: Be or not to be? ( no more 6 vs 2 ) (101 member(s) have cast votes)

Are you againts a auto-balanced system based only on the number of players per team (player selection base on ready selection order: last to join first to be switched)

  1. Yes, I am against any form of auto-balance (16 votes [15.84%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.84%

  2. No, I want to see auto-balance system ASAP (78 votes [77.23%])

    Percentage of vote: 77.23%

  3. I don't care, I just wanna play. (7 votes [6.93%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.93%

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#1 HellRik

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Posted November 25 2012 - 03:30 PM

Let see who's againts it and who's not.
:)

Please restrain yourself from replying to this thread to give your words on the game balance. Its not about mech/ability/level balance but for team balance. No more 6 Vs 2.

QUESTION TO GAME DESIGNERS
Why did you implemented a auto-match system that needs 4 minimum to do a match while they only ask for 3 to ready up to start it??


The 4th one ALWAYS leave (trying to join a game with more players?). It already sucks to do a 2v2 match...even more to have to deal with a started match 1v2.

I think that the actual match making system gets fracked out at the moment a player leaves. IE: 2xLV12 MECHs VS 1xLV19 + 1xLV0..one leaves. Even a LV0 can do better then a LV10 when skills are involved. Its simply making the matching system fail after 1 min.

Edited by HellRik, November 25 2012 - 07:05 PM.

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#2 Makina

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Posted November 25 2012 - 03:33 PM

actually I really dont mind, but if it would help the game balance issues im up for it, no need to rage quit if you change team as you keep your stats so wtv seriously

Edited by Makina, November 25 2012 - 03:33 PM.

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#3 VertoPrime

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Posted November 25 2012 - 03:38 PM

This balance is not happening now I can't even level my bruiser with out it over heating its worthless in a fight now, as for the numbers balance it is starting to look like a free for all with no limits to levels levels.

Edited by VertoPrime, November 25 2012 - 03:43 PM.

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#4 HellRik

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Posted November 25 2012 - 04:40 PM

View PostVertoPrime, on November 25 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

This balance is not happening now I can't even level my bruiser with out it over heating its worthless in a fight now, as for the numbers balance it is starting to look like a free for all with no limits to levels levels.
This thread is not for mech balance, but for team numbers only.

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#5 Akrium

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Posted November 25 2012 - 06:21 PM

Auto-Balance is the punishment good players receive for playing the game.

Quit ragging out and learn how to play. This beta player level literally means next to nothing. The bonuses we get via trees and internals are a joke at best. So really it just comes down to player skill. And you will never get any better if you don't fight people that are better than you.

The switch team option is currently in game. People do use it.. just not always.

I won't because I earned to be on the winning team 99% of the time. I won't punish myself to play for the worse team unless my friends just happen to be on it.

Auto-Balance ruins games. It promotes people to rage quit even more. Why show me a stat about my wins and losses in my person section if you are going to force me to play on the losing team for doing well. Which will ruin my stat.. why am i being punished for someone else quitting out.

#6 Makina

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Posted November 25 2012 - 06:41 PM

honestly I dont find it as terrible as you say, I do change teams alot, I dont mind doing it, ok I might get a loose in my stats but wtv, ive gotten like 10 loose because of games that are like 5 vs 3 or even vs 2....but you keep your kill/assist/death ratio and xp, the best part is you might even get more xp going to the other team as there is more targets....well at least thats how I see it.

Edited by Makina, November 25 2012 - 06:41 PM.

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#7 HellRik

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Posted November 25 2012 - 06:58 PM

View PostAkrium, on November 25 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

Auto-Balance is the punishment good players receive for playing the game.

Quit ragging out and learn how to play. This beta player level literally means next to nothing. The bonuses we get via trees and internals are a joke at best. So really it just comes down to player skill. And you will never get any better if you don't fight people that are better than you.

The switch team option is currently in game. People do use it.. just not always.

I won't because I earned to be on the winning team 99% of the time. I won't punish myself to play for the worse team unless my friends just happen to be on it.

Auto-Balance ruins games. It promotes people to rage quit even more. Why show me a stat about my wins and losses in my person section if you are going to force me to play on the losing team for doing well. Which will ruin my stat.. why am i being punished for someone else quitting out.

I think you should learn to read before posting. I am asking for a team balance to prevent games going on for then 5 mins at 6vs2.

I didnt talk about skills and mech LV. I am talking about what devs have done with LV balance instead of focussing on Total PER team number.

I didnt whine about beeing stomped. I even stay when its 1vs3. Just to out run them and learn to get them down 1 by one. You got it all wrong about sportmanship and I hope not to get teamed with you. Rage quitters leave. Forget about them. I do blame them for causing disruption into the game balance, but they are GONE. I am focussing on a solution to get things right, not to promote rage quitters. W/e you do they will still be there.

I just feel your answer doenst belong in this thread because its off topic...sorry

Edited by HellRik, November 25 2012 - 07:06 PM.

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#8 Necro

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Posted November 25 2012 - 10:04 PM

View PostAkrium, on November 25 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

Auto-Balance is the punishment good players receive for playing the game.

Quit ragging out and learn how to play. This beta player level literally means next to nothing. The bonuses we get via trees and internals are a joke at best. So really it just comes down to player skill. And you will never get any better if you don't fight people that are better than you.

The switch team option is currently in game. People do use it.. just not always.

I won't because I earned to be on the winning team 99% of the time. I won't punish myself to play for the worse team unless my friends just happen to be on it.

Auto-Balance ruins games. It promotes people to rage quit even more. Why show me a stat about my wins and losses in my person section if you are going to force me to play on the losing team for doing well. Which will ruin my stat.. why am i being punished for someone else quitting out.

Don't worry we can start a riot if in game Auto-balancing becomes a thing.

However I'm not against auto balance for new players joining, If i were being forced to switch team I would insta-quit.

I would much rather a surrender system be put in actually that needs majority vote +1

#9 Deu

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Posted November 26 2012 - 01:05 AM

Anything that takes away from allowing you to play with as many of your friends as you want should never enter the game.

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#10 G4M5T3R

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Posted November 26 2012 - 01:53 AM

Idc, I just want to play xD   Ive stuck out MANY games 1v3 and still say gg with smile on my face and I move on.

*Now that it's OB I haven't seen this problem nearly as much as it used to happen. As predicted, there's more people now.

Edited by G4M5T3R, December 15 2012 - 03:27 PM.

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#11 Pap

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Posted November 26 2012 - 05:33 AM

for the time being autobalance based only on numbers is fine. but in a longer turn it should be based on other things like kills, energy collection/dropping control takin and such
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#12 DeVact

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Posted November 26 2012 - 11:35 AM

Balancing matches is probably the most difficult thing there is to designing multiplayer FPS. You get it wrong => less fun for everybody. I actually see where Akrium is coming from. If you're already 10 mins into the game , playing with friends on your team, getting switched must really suck.
On the other hand I also get why everybody's leaving as soon as they start to get slaughtered by the other team. Because it's simply no fun to get slaughtered. Therefore, in my opinion, some type of balancing will be necessary!
Coming from BC2 (or the Battlefield series in general) it would also help to incorporate some kind of support buff so the less advanced players can at least help their team and gain some XP (in Battlefield it's throwing meds and ammo kits).

EDIT: The best way of Autobalancing I've encountered so far is when the player who last joined the game gets switched as players often join already running games. This way nobody who was here for some time and feels comfortable in his team needs to switch! (On the downside if nobody recently joined the game somebody will have to take the bitter pill...)

Edited by DeVact, November 26 2012 - 11:40 AM.

DarkPulse said:

... less than witnessing Elvis crash a UFO into the Loch Ness Monster, seeing Bigfoot crawl out of the smoking wreckage, opening a wormhole in space, and then getting picked up by ET, Lando Calrissian, and an Arilou Lalee'Lay in the Space Battleship Yamato.

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#13 HellRik

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Posted November 26 2012 - 11:43 AM

View PostDeVact, on November 26 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

Balancing matches is probably the most difficult thing there is to designing multiplayer FPS. You get it wrong => less fun for everybody. I actually see where Akrium is coming from. If you're already 10 mins into the game , playing with friends on your team, getting switched must really suck.
On the other hand I also get why everybody's leaving as soon as they start to get slaughtered by the other team. Because it's simply no fun to get slaughtered. Therefore, in my opinion, some type of balancing will be necessary!
Coming from BC2 (or the Battlefield series in general) it would also help to incorporate some kind of support buff so the less advanced players can at least help their team and gain some XP (in Battlefield it's throwing meds and ammo kits).

EDIT: The best way of Autobalancing I've encountered so far is when the player who last joined the game gets switched as players often join already running games. This way nobody who was here for some time and feels comfortable in his team needs to switch! (On the downside if nobody recently joined the game somebody will have to take the bitter pill...)

lol thats pretty much what I am saying :P
Except for the ''support things'' Why? because everybody started at LV0....why would it be different for noobs/new players?

Thats why I dont support the idea balancing the game on Mech lv or ratio. This can be easily fracked ie: joins the game with a LV0 sharpshooter then after 1 death swtich to his lv20 rocketeer.

Can't do much about 5vs6...but when its comes to 3vs7..balancing 2 players (preferably the last 2 to join/hit ready)will make things much better for everyone...Good players dont mind playing againts their friends once in a while. Why are you all ( most ) taking auto-balance like a deceise?

Edited by HellRik, November 26 2012 - 11:48 AM.

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#14 DeVact

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Posted November 26 2012 - 11:55 AM

Quote

Except for the ''support things'' Why? because everybody started at LV0....why would it be different for noobs/new players?

Because real noob players don't know how to aim. Therefore they need something to make up for their lack of skill e.g. help out their team in some way. I just get the feeling there's a lot of people who never even tried to play FPS-games before HAWKEN.

DarkPulse said:

... less than witnessing Elvis crash a UFO into the Loch Ness Monster, seeing Bigfoot crawl out of the smoking wreckage, opening a wormhole in space, and then getting picked up by ET, Lando Calrissian, and an Arilou Lalee'Lay in the Space Battleship Yamato.

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#15 HellRik

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Posted November 26 2012 - 11:59 AM

View PostDeVact, on November 26 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

Quote

Except for the ''support things'' Why? because everybody started at LV0....why would it be different for noobs/new players?

Because real noob players don't know how to aim. Therefore they need something to make up for their lack of skill e.g. help out their team in some way. I just get the feeling there's a lot of people who never even tried to play FPS-games before HAWKEN.

YEAH! sorry I misread your post. You are totally right. Making THEM act as support. Sorry again. :P

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#16 spicymelons

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Posted November 26 2012 - 01:46 PM

Maybe not auto balance.
It would be frustrating to get switched to a team I worked so hard to fight against.

Maybe some kind of voting within the match to scramble teams.

This is a pretty good community so far. Usually, if I ask someone to switch teams, they do.

If I notice the other team is short, I'll jump over.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

#17 HellRik

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Posted November 26 2012 - 01:59 PM

View Postspicymelons, on November 26 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

Maybe not auto balance.
It would be frustrating to get switched to a team I worked so hard to fight against.

Maybe some kind of voting within the match to scramble teams.

This is a pretty good community so far. Usually, if I ask someone to switch teams, they do.

If I notice the other team is short, I'll jump over.

Maybe you are right for the vote part.
I was asked yesterday to switch team because the players in my team where ''friends''. Honestly , after switching 3 times in the last matches I was like why the hell would I do it again? How can I prove them I did? Why should it me instead of one of them?
The answer I got was, ''we don't want to lose because of some noobs''....false sportmanship to its best.! ;)

Well I did anyway and ended up fighthing 2vs3 and won our siege by 500pts ;)

Edited by HellRik, November 26 2012 - 02:01 PM.

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#18 Akrium

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Posted November 26 2012 - 02:47 PM

View PostHellRik, on November 25 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

I think you should learn to read before posting. I am asking for a team balance to prevent games going on for then 5 mins at 6vs2.

I didnt talk about skills and mech LV. I am talking about what devs have done with LV balance instead of focussing on Total PER team number.

I didnt whine about beeing stomped. I even stay when its 1vs3. Just to out run them and learn to get them down 1 by one. You got it all wrong about sportmanship and I hope not to get teamed with you. Rage quitters leave. Forget about them. I do blame them for causing disruption into the game balance, but they are GONE. I am focussing on a solution to get things right, not to promote rage quitters. W/e you do they will still be there.

I just feel your answer doenst belong in this thread because its off topic...sorry

I should have quoted your original post. Sorry since you edited it I cannot go back and read it.

What you say is that you want auto balancing. And every encounter I've had with that mechanic in games has always turned the games into utter trash. You can call me an unskilled player for always wanting to play with my friends and not against them. I'm fine with that. But auto balance is more punishment, not pleasure. Does a 2v6 suck.. yeah.. it does. I am not arguing anything against that. But do I feel I should be switched over because it's unfair. No..

Why? It's because auto balancing makes me want to play just slightly better than the other team so I don't get punished and made to play with them and lose. Why should I be punished because other people caused the issue and not me? I am only playing the game to the best of my abilities and most of the time working with my team.

The best games and most fun games i've had so far in hawken have come from epic 6v6 games where we still beat the team 2 to 1 in score. But the game FEELS so close that everyone is having a good time. These are times I know the match making system is working. Yeah we blew out the other team.. but by the skin of our teeth because we just happened to have ppl save each other just in time. So everyone knew their skills were on par with each other and it was exciting. Could you imagine an epic game like that.. but everyone leaves on the losing team at the end and after all that work I get put on the losing team? Seriously? How is that fair or fun for me. I just earned an epic win.. only for it to be given to me as a loss. I simply would quit out to be honest. That would annoy me to no end and I'd probably take a day away from the game.

Auto-Balance solves as many issues as it also creates issues. Thus nothing really gets done.

#19 HellRik

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Posted November 26 2012 - 03:09 PM

View PostAkrium, on November 26 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

View PostHellRik, on November 25 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

I think you should learn to read before posting. I am asking for a team balance to prevent games going on for then 5 mins at 6vs2.

I didnt talk about skills and mech LV. I am talking about what devs have done with LV balance instead of focussing on Total PER team number.

I didnt whine about beeing stomped. I even stay when its 1vs3. Just to out run them and learn to get them down 1 by one. You got it all wrong about sportmanship and I hope not to get teamed with you. Rage quitters leave. Forget about them. I do blame them for causing disruption into the game balance, but they are GONE. I am focussing on a solution to get things right, not to promote rage quitters. W/e you do they will still be there.

I just feel your answer doenst belong in this thread because its off topic...sorry

I should have quoted your original post. Sorry since you edited it I cannot go back and read it.

What you say is that you want auto balancing. And every encounter I've had with that mechanic in games has always turned the games into utter trash. You can call me an unskilled player for always wanting to play with my friends and not against them. I'm fine with that. But auto balance is more punishment, not pleasure. Does a 2v6 suck.. yeah.. it does. I am not arguing anything against that. But do I feel I should be switched over because it's unfair. No..

Why? It's because auto balancing makes me want to play just slightly better than the other team so I don't get punished and made to play with them and lose. Why should I be punished because other people caused the issue and not me? I am only playing the game to the best of my abilities and most of the time working with my team.

The best games and most fun games i've had so far in hawken have come from epic 6v6 games where we still beat the team 2 to 1 in score. But the game FEELS so close that everyone is having a good time. These are times I know the match making system is working. Yeah we blew out the other team.. but by the skin of our teeth because we just happened to have ppl save each other just in time. So everyone knew their skills were on par with each other and it was exciting. Could you imagine an epic game like that.. but everyone leaves on the losing team at the end and after all that work I get put on the losing team? Seriously? How is that fair or fun for me. I just earned an epic win.. only for it to be given to me as a loss. I simply would quit out to be honest. That would annoy me to no end and I'd probably take a day away from the game.

Auto-Balance solves as many issues as it also creates issues. Thus nothing really gets done.

Fine, after reading your last post , I may now teamup with you! :P
You are relating the fact that ''if'' someone leaves you feel like a punishment to be switched to the other side as if they are all responsible for 1 to leave. Its not fair for them to be out numbered as its not for you to be switch. I call that a neutral solution. Its not like its a lose/lose situation.

Like you said ( and I do to ) , you love epic and close fights where wining means working hard as hell as doing as much as you can to keep your team alive. W/e your style is, w/e your experience is, I'll never ever blame/make fun for anyone to lose. But thats me. Can you blame someone to play a game to have fun? He owns the right to play as much as us, skills factor aside.

You may be right, I may be wrong but thats why I started a poll on this matter. Imo, opinions dont count as a valid answer in a democratic topic. If the Devs see that the majority of their Beta tester, as they represent a small % of their next player population, they might consider changing ( or not ) game mecanics to fit their game into a bigger audience.

Final word , we'll see in a couple days what it will look like. So far, majority wants some kind of balance in numbers, thats all this thread is all about and nothing more. Not the ability/Mech balance, but the team matching system from start to end.

THey might consider 2 different matchmaking system.

1 for the TMD/DM section ( and anyother mode with more then 12 players )
1 for the siege and MA section ( and any other match lower then 6v6 )

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#20 HellRik

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Posted November 26 2012 - 07:49 PM

Edit: derp :P

Edited by HellRik, November 26 2012 - 07:59 PM.

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