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[HC Boost Contest] Credit sink alternatives to countermeasures


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#1 FR05TY

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Posted December 21 2012 - 05:07 PM

After my last post about how countermeasures are bad, I felt it was more useful to suggest alternatives that will fulfill the role of a credit sink. So if you hate countermeasures and/or have some ideas on alternative credit sinks, please post them here! I will give out a Hawken Credit booster to the first person who gets their idea implemented (if/when that happens), as long as that idea does not grant a gameplay advantage.

Why have a credit sink? Because if people pile up Hawken credits, they will be less inclined to spend real money when new content comes out. This might not sound like such a bad thing from a player's perspective, but free-to-play games do have to make money. The business/economic model has to be fruitful for Meteor. So in order to keep people from amassing credits, we need a place where they can spend their excess credits, otherwise known as a credit sink.

So, to spark the discussion, here are some ideas for credit sinks.

1. A consumable that makes your TOW shots explode with fireworks. 20 Hawken Credits per shot.

2. Likewise for the grenade launcher, except you launch tennis balls.

One could imagine a whole shop of these things that would basically be 'equiped' as 'ammo' for your secondary weapon. You would have infinite default ammo, but could choose to purchase these purely cosmetic variants for Hawken/Meteor Credits.


Don't think people will buy these? Take a look at this: http://wiki.teamfort...Someone_Special

This is an item that simply broadcasted a message across servers when someone gifted the item to another player. This item cost $100, and I can tell you that quite a few people were buying it when it came out, because I was watching some of the hilarious messages that people were sending. And this is with real money. People are even more likely to buy seemingly useless things when it's just 'fake money'.

These items are not sustainable by someone who is not paying real money, and will chew through your Hawken credits very quickly. They will be rare, and because of that, they will be desirable.

One doesn't necessarily need to make these silly either (I realize this isn't TF2) - you could imagine just 'airburst ammo' instead of fireworks, which would have a different effect on explosion, or 'plasma grenades' instead of tennis balls.


3. Mech XP transfer with Hawken Credits instead of Meteor Credits (at a terrible exchange rate).

4. A Hawken Credit -> Meteor Credit converter, 100 Hawken Credits -> 1 Meteor Credit. People who already pay are unlikely to use this, because they'd rather just use real money for the things Hawken Credits cant buy, so you don't lose much business from them. People who have yet to pay will have long term goals, which both keep their Hawken Credits down, and their interest in the game up, making them more likely to pay.


NOTE: This thread is not supposed to be about countermeasures. We have already discussed that in another thread. Please read that thread if you want to argue about it, and post there.

tl;dr - countermeasures bad, credit sink good. How can we make a better credit sink?

#2 ReachH

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Posted December 21 2012 - 05:15 PM

I would pay for any MP cosmetic item, as long as I still have friends playing, an active clan, new maps, a competitive scene to follow etc. Hell I may even buy a few Hawken novels if they're at least half-decent. Comics I'm not so excited for, but hey there's a first for everything.

Why do we even need a HC sink? It doesn't suit the business model that Meteor want, but seem so confused about.

Its just my opinion, personally, morally, and professionally, that you have to get the basics right, and the money will follow.

This is a great thing, that people obviously want. Now please make a way to take our money in a way that doesn't make us cringe. I implore you. Take our money please. Hawken is so good.

Edited by ReachH, December 21 2012 - 05:17 PM.

View Post[HWK]HUGHES, on October 23 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

Development happens.


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#3 Elix

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Posted December 21 2012 - 05:29 PM

How about this? Ammo "mods", much in the way FR05TY described here, that turn your weapon into something goofy or unusual (imagine tracer rounds or scifi-style laser bolts). They'd be consumables and last for the duration of a life -- so a checkbox on the staging screen, much like the current countermeasures implementation, would be appropriate. The price would be accordingly high (>100HC each or some trivial amount of MC) and the effects completely decorative. Or other cosmetic mutators, like giving yourself a faint Nyan Cat trail and a horn (triggered like taunts) with the music.

I'd put that in a Scout and just go bonkers in Bazaar, lol.
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#4 Guiotine

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Posted December 21 2012 - 05:33 PM

View PostElix, on December 21 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

How about this? Ammo "mods", much in the way FR05TY described here, that turn your weapon into something goofy or unusual (imagine tracer rounds or scifi-style laser bolts). They'd be consumables and last for the duration of a life -- so a checkbox on the staging screen, much like the current countermeasures implementation, would be appropriate. The price would be accordingly high (>100HC each or some trivial amount of MC) and the effects completely decorative. Or other cosmetic mutators, like giving yourself a faint Nyan Cat trail and a horn (triggered like taunts) with the music.

I'd put that in a Scout and just go bonkers in Bazaar, lol.

I want that nyan cat trail... can I become a pop tart as well?

ReachH said:

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View PostAsianJoyKiller, on July 02 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

This wall of text gets the AJK Seal of Approval.

#5 Aelieth

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Posted December 21 2012 - 05:50 PM

I'm going to say again, no, don't use credit sinks. I would rather focus on alternative ways of raising money than sinks. Sinks mean players continually putting into the same thing over and over with only the same return or mitigating returns. Would rather see investments, such as skins, parts for the mechs, and other that stay with the account permanently after being purchased. I will not invest in sinks in a game, they're not worth my time.

Here are a couple of good definitions:
http://www.merriam-w...dictionary/sink


a : to go downward in quality, state, or condition


b : to grow less in amount or worth



So!! My suggestions then!
  • Even more customization on the mechs, need more parts to change out - Such as the guns having new skins, logos for purchase.  

  • Skins and customization for the offensive and defensive items - Rather have machine gun that sets up, have a cannon that comes out and shoots cannonballs at people. Or an EMP that is pink or purple.  

  • Mech avatars - Custom mech avatars that show up in a comm box in everyone's mech (small, not huge, like using one of the screens down below). These can be customizable with looks, hair, eyes, glasses, and even going so far as expressions so everyone has their own look, and brings a feeling of even more immersion into the game.

  • Clan Bases - Want private servers? Let's do it. Complete with clan bases for Siege mode and Missile Defense. Rather than leaving a regular Prosk or Sentium base, your clan chips in for their own logo, and the leaders can outfit the base with custom looking defensive turrets, energy returns, and even battleships.

Wanted to revise this after quickly thinking about the mistake I already made. Anything that changes game play should not be purchasable with Meteor Credits, only the look and customization should be changed with Meteor Credits. So these fall under only Hawken Credit purchases:
  • Micro breakdown of Internals - Purchasing small internals all over the mech (its feet, knees, arms, back, etc) and they all do something, albeit much less than the current internals do.
  • Internals for your offensive and defensive items - Well, you made your cannon look like its shooting cannon balls, now make it really shoot cannon balls. Slow to attack and jars the enemy on impact, though it doesn't do much damage against all that metal.

Edited by Aelieth, December 21 2012 - 06:03 PM.

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#6 mechjeb

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Posted December 21 2012 - 05:51 PM

This is a pretty bad notion altogether.

20 hawkin credits per shot is ridiculous.  that's not a credit sink, that's a credit pit.  no one would bother to use it.

"A Hawken Credit -> Meteor Credit converter, 100 Hawken Credits -> 1 Meteor Credit."

even more ridiculous.  at that rate, they could just buy stuff with hawkin credits rather than meteor credits. as it is now, things bought with hawkin credits cost roughly 10 times more than with meteor credits.  The only thing you can't buy with hawkin credits anyways are things like camo.

People will have to play something like 30 decent games to to buy 1 unlock, and 60 games to buy one mech.  considering a game lasts over 10 minutes, even simplifying it down to 10 minutes means a person has to play for 5 hours just for one unlock (not including wait times between rounds), and 10 hours just to buy 1 mech.  considering these unlocks are only specific to each mech, and that there's dozens of them, that's a lot of play time to unlock.  of course most people will only unlock a couple of things for each mech, but they may also want to try other things they can't un-buy that might turn out to be not so useful.

As it is right now, credits bought with cash don't buy you a whole lot, not that there's much to buy or worth buying anyways.

I'd say the biggest game changing upgrades come in skill points and some of the alternative weapons you get.

Personally, I don't care that much about cosmetics to buy them and most people would feel the same.  This isn't TF2, and it certainly doesn't have the same user base as it....nor will it ever.  This game will always be a small community in comparison, and these kinds of ridiculous ideas will only serve to keep it from growing.  Then it'll come down to a group of the same 100 or so users left over circle jerking each other over the items they have on that no one else cares about or even notices.

Edited by mechjeb, December 21 2012 - 05:55 PM.


#7 ReachH

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Posted December 21 2012 - 06:02 PM

View PostAelieth, on December 21 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

  • Mech avatars - Custom mech avatars that show up in a comm box in everyone's mech (small, not huge, like using one of the screens down below). These can be customizable with looks, hair, eyes, glasses, and even going so far as expressions so everyone has their own look, and brings a feeling of even more immersion into the game.

This. Although you have to have enough so that not everyone is the same. Maybe also have some exclusive ones during events - so that veteran players can differentiate themselves in repayment for their loyalty.

View Post[HWK]HUGHES, on October 23 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

Development happens.


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#8 FR05TY

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Posted December 21 2012 - 06:29 PM

I didn't even realize there is already a thread on this (along with people who already came up with the ideas I listed): http://community.pla...measure-system/

Guess I should have searched first.

In any case, I understand the opposition to credit sink. However, realize that the developers don't have absolute say in this matter. They are dealing with the business side of things that you aren't being exposed to. You can say that you think they could just completely do without a credit sink, but the reality of the situation is that they have to compromise.

Personally, I agree with you. I think part of the reason I have spent so much money on League of Legends is that I feel like they're not actively trying to milk money out of me. There's no real perceived pressure to spend, and yet I've spent quite a lot, because I feel that they deserve it. Contrast this with EA, who I have refused to give literally any money to for ages.

Ideally, I think that credit sinks should not exist at all. However, it is desirable to keep credits down. If you let people pile them up to the degree that they become meaningless, what happens is that there is no sense of progression associated with them. This decreases investment in the game, as you now have less goals to work towards. Now, you might not care about this, but from a game designer's point of view, this is important. An alternative to credit sinks is to release content often enough that people are actively spending their points. I don't know enough about Hawken's long-term plans concerning content releases to say whether a credit sink is required, but at the very least, there is a perceived need for one.

Edited by FR05TY, December 21 2012 - 06:32 PM.


#9 Vulix

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Posted December 21 2012 - 06:40 PM

I'd rather not have counter-measures in the game either, but they are the only continuous HC sink in the game I suppose. Now if they introduce more ways to use HC, I hope they do so in a manner that does not affect in-match gameplay. As in, I don't want someone to spend 100 HC and immediately heal up or get to choose where to respawn on the map or anything. I'd rather have all HC spending occur outside of matches. More customization options for your mechs look? More weapons you can purchase as side-grades to the weapons you gain naturally through leveling? I feel this would enrich the game further and give players more to do than by just adding more in-match HC sinks.
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#10 Stalgrim

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Posted December 21 2012 - 06:50 PM

Why not simply put in the GREATEST credit sink known to mankind? Gambling. Bid a big chunk of your credits in increments of 5,000/10,000/15,000 to spin a bronze, silver or gold slot machine to win cosmetic items. Meteor could make it like other games where the worst you could do is get an item that breaks even with your investment, but it'll be something you likely don't want. Just for the love of GOD don't make another a slot machine that only takes Meteor points unless it gives you the EXACT same items as the regular slot machine but with a SLIGHTLY higher chance of getting better items and a much lower cost. Put in a cooldown period for new items so that they can't be gotten on release day/week this way, unless ofcourse people want to use the Meteor Points machine.

People are yearning to get cosmetic items for HC, why not let them have a chance at that? Nobody is really losing out here, certainly not Meteor, after all, the house ALWAYS wins.

Edited by Stalgrim, December 21 2012 - 06:54 PM.

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#11 KaszaWspraju

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Posted December 21 2012 - 06:52 PM

The only reasonable solution is, something like a world map in WOT.

Players in clans, who will spend more time in the game, they will have a place where they can spend the money earned HC:
eg:
  • The items (including offensive and defensive) and CM now are equipment, 3 slots, single use, any amount of life. All purchased by HC. These rules apply only here,
  • However clans must put HC to sign up.
  • All divided into seasons, winning clan gets HC, maybe MC plus some boosters and title.
The rest is playing with the old way, where the problem of excess HC will be slight, and probably something that devs can handle.

Edited by KaszaWspraju, December 21 2012 - 06:55 PM.

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#12 Brackstone

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Posted December 21 2012 - 10:46 PM

I like these ideas.

Maybe not "tennis balls" or something entirely too whacky like shooting toilets at people.

But it would be really awesome if I could rent like different colored explosions or tracer fire or something.

#13 Guiotine

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Posted December 21 2012 - 11:49 PM

View PostBrackstone, on December 21 2012 - 10:46 PM, said:

I like these ideas.

Maybe not "tennis balls" or something entirely too whacky like shooting toilets at people.

But it would be really awesome if I could rent like different colored explosions or tracer fire or something.

The TOW launcher now shoots various urinals and toilets instead of missiles..........there are few things funnier that I can imagine

ReachH said:

I dub thee, Guiotine, 'Coloxxen, the mech pokemon'

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on July 02 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

This wall of text gets the AJK Seal of Approval.

#14 Stalgrim

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Posted December 22 2012 - 05:48 AM

We can agree that all of these ideas are better than counter measures.
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#15 Avlaen

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Posted December 22 2012 - 05:50 AM

One idea for a HC sink thats allready functionaly in would be overflow xp Dosent effect in game balance and is a nice convenience you can sink HP into.
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#16 ReachH

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Posted December 22 2012 - 09:48 AM

View PostAvlaen, on December 22 2012 - 05:50 AM, said:

One idea for a HC sink thats allready functionaly in would be overflow xp Dosent effect in game balance and is a nice convenience you can sink HP into.

No, meteor have made it quite clear that they wish to slap a price tag on any form of convenience. Despite saying they are totally opposed to paying for convenience.

View Post[HWK]HUGHES, on October 23 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

Development happens.


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#17 Avlaen

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Posted December 22 2012 - 09:51 AM

i cant remember them saying there against paying for convenience, but yes all the convenience so far has been MP, but to me Overflow xp makes a much more sensible HP sink than the current implementation of CM.
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#18 Decoy101x

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Posted December 22 2012 - 10:01 AM

holy fuzzy bunny..a thread that actually has sound and reasonable discussions by people who arent one track minded

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View PostReachH, on December 22 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:



No, meteor have made it quite clear that they wish to slap a price tag on any form of convenience. Despite saying they are totally opposed to paying for convenience.

what? they said they are against PAY 2 WIN.   paying for convenience is different all together.

Edited by Decoy101x, December 22 2012 - 10:02 AM.

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