HAWKEN servers are up and our latest minor update is live!
Forgot Password? SUPPORT REDEEM CODE

Jump to content


Need a better way at guessing a players skill.


  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

#1 Necro

Necro

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,262 posts

Posted November 26 2012 - 09:44 PM

A lot of things I've recently seen about MM and team balancing and blahdablahdablah all rely on an estimation of a players skill.

I feel there need to be some sort of player level, not just mech level as that doesn't do anything.
having a level 20 mech doesn't stop you from having a level 0 mech.

Maybe a sum of mech levels, k/d ratio, damage ratio. something more mathematical then "Your level 20."

#2 D3m0n1t3

D3m0n1t3

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 17 posts
  • LocationMalaysia

Posted November 26 2012 - 09:50 PM

Or the players need to choose a mech before deploying. That way matches can be setup according to mech level.

#3 ArnieF4440

ArnieF4440

    Muscles

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,198 posts
  • LocationDown Under/invading US west servers

Posted November 26 2012 - 09:50 PM

+1, been thinking the same thing. I was thinking player level could be (at a bare minimum):
max level for a mech * number of mechs available
or
it is based on the total EXP gained (wouldn't mind more buffs for player levels, lol)

View PostNecro, on November 26 2012 - 09:44 PM, said:

Maybe a sum of mech levels, k/d ratio, damage ratio. something more mathematical then "Your level 20."
Like a skill level? *refer to BF3 skill level*

EDIT

View PostD3m0n1t3, on November 26 2012 - 09:50 PM, said:

Or the players need to choose a mech before deploying. That way matches can be setup according to mech level.
That's too restrictive ...XD

Edited by ArnieF4440, November 26 2012 - 09:51 PM.

Posted Image
Me: Youtube | Drop Bears
Guides: Hawken Tips and Tricks | Fraps + Compression | Lag + Gaming
Rig: i7-920 + H50 | MSI X58A-GD45 | Corsair Dominator 12GB | 2x EVGA GTX 660TI SC+ 3GB | OCZ Vertex 2 120GB | Corsair HX1000 | CM HAF932

#4 Necro

Necro

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,262 posts

Posted November 26 2012 - 10:01 PM

View PostD3m0n1t3, on November 26 2012 - 09:50 PM, said:

Or the players need to choose a mech before deploying. That way matches can be setup according to mech level.
That takes out the ability to switch mechs, not very fun.

#5 Necro

Necro

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,262 posts

Posted November 26 2012 - 10:06 PM

This would open up more tiers in MM thought if you had 1-5, 6-10, 11-15, 16-20.

as tiers then your splitting the player base in 4 already for MM.

Add player levels and then your splitting it into even smaller chunks, hopefully this could work without causing wait time but if it didn't then perhaps for higher skill level there could be less tiers 1-10 11-20?

Basically splitting the player base too much but not splitting it enough causes balancing issues/wait times.

i can argue against my own point in my own thread what of it?

#6 BeefC4ke

BeefC4ke

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 304 posts

Posted November 27 2012 - 12:33 AM

I think they just need to implement a per match or group of match ranking with tears like SC2 or something like LoL has.

Player level won't work as I can be bad at the game but reach max level.

The best thing they have at the moment is MM which has been mentioned here. I don't think it's the best system but if they can pair players based on that rating it would probably be better than whatever they're doing now. Unless that's what they're doing now.
/Merf-isms - What will he come up with next?

dirtnapgaming.com

#7 Dreizehn

Dreizehn

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 383 posts
  • LocationMalaysia

Posted November 27 2012 - 12:52 AM

View PostNecro, on November 26 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

View PostD3m0n1t3, on November 26 2012 - 09:50 PM, said:

Or the players need to choose a mech before deploying. That way matches can be setup according to mech level.
That takes out the ability to switch mechs, not very fun.

It doesn't have to. You can still be brought to the hangar after death or at the start of matches.

#8 KaszaWspraju

KaszaWspraju

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 922 posts
  • LocationPoland

Posted November 27 2012 - 02:55 AM

I wonder how something as abstract as a skill player to be better identified by the game?

INTEL i5-4670K * ASUS Z87-A * GOODRAM DDR3 2x4GB * GIGABYTE GTX 760 OC rev 2.0 * X-Fi XTREME MUSIC * GRADO SR-60

SAMSUNG EVO 120GB * OCZ STEALTHXSTREAM 2 600W * Win 7 64
@ defekt : Mobility is King and burst damage is Queen. Checkmate.
Gdy byłem młodszy byłem bardziej beztroski... aha... nie lubię już POLSKI !


#9 ArnieF4440

ArnieF4440

    Muscles

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,198 posts
  • LocationDown Under/invading US west servers

Posted November 27 2012 - 04:16 AM

View PostDreizehn, on November 27 2012 - 12:52 AM, said:

View PostNecro, on November 26 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

View PostD3m0n1t3, on November 26 2012 - 09:50 PM, said:

Or the players need to choose a mech before deploying. That way matches can be setup according to mech level.
That takes out the ability to switch mechs, not very fun.

It doesn't have to. You can still be brought to the hangar after death or at the start of matches.
Then you can switch to a low level mech first then switch to a high level ... i'd imagine that would be an exploit for players to use ...
Posted Image
Me: Youtube | Drop Bears
Guides: Hawken Tips and Tricks | Fraps + Compression | Lag + Gaming
Rig: i7-920 + H50 | MSI X58A-GD45 | Corsair Dominator 12GB | 2x EVGA GTX 660TI SC+ 3GB | OCZ Vertex 2 120GB | Corsair HX1000 | CM HAF932

#10 LunaticCalm

LunaticCalm

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 250 posts

Posted November 27 2012 - 09:38 AM

Just need to implement Elo or some other skill rating system.

#11 h0B0

h0B0

    Non Sequitur Leprechaun

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,143 posts
  • Location[delete for trolling] --defter

Posted November 27 2012 - 10:27 AM

Not necessary.

You can judge a players skill by facing him on the battlefield.

As for what is displayed on the screen, i have proposed the idea of having a ladder, confident players will be drawn to the ladder and have their games ranked.

I would also like to propose that we see the total accumulated exp for a mech. Once the game is released most of us will play a specific mech way past the base exp required for level 20. Having the chance to know a player has 10gazillion exp on his scout versus just knowing he reached level 20 would be nice.

Click me! I dare you.

Posted Image

View Post[HWK]HUGHES, on March 15 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

Oh don't always listen to h0B0. Lol.


#12 LunaticCalm

LunaticCalm

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 250 posts

Posted November 27 2012 - 11:05 AM

View Posth0B0, on November 27 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

Not necessary.

You can judge a players skill by facing him on the battlefield.

Ok for players, but a match making or autobalance system needs a number to work with.

#13 Necro

Necro

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,262 posts

Posted November 29 2012 - 03:05 AM

So came up with this in another thread but it's much more relevant here so i'm posting it here too, doesn't really solve the problem that much because skill may not translate thru different mechs and your allowed to change them. Basically you could be the best Scout but the Worst Brawler.


((Kill+assist)/death) * damage ratio) + (Skill increase * time in combat per mech)

This seems to be the easiest way to test a players skill for a certain mech. higher the number the better.
Use the kills and deaths from the mech your evaluating not every mech.
(time in combat would be a number that represents the total time you have played that certain mech since the last skill increase calculation)
(skill increase would be a percentage that would account for player getting better and subtract time from you playing essentially)

((Kill+assist)/death) * damage ratio) - player level) + (Skill increase * time in combat)
(player level would be the sum of a player mechs. It would be given in a numbered value like "player level" 1 for a level 20 mech 1.5 for a 20 and level 10 and level ones don't count)
(time in combat would be a number that represents the total time you have played since the last skill increase calculation)
(skill increase would be a percentage that would account for player getting better and subtract time from you playing essentially)



That's as good as I can make skill translate into math.

Essentially it takes your aptitude at getting kills, assists, not dying, avoiding damage while dealing damage and weighs it against the time you play while then calculating for an increase in skill by essentially subtracting time you have played.
(not literally just mathematically)

The player level one will essentially see how good of a overall player you are by weighing all the data against the levels of your mechs, This may mean however that you have an excellent top of the rank scout pilot but the worst overall pilot because of you have .1 k/ds with every other mech and they are somehow level 20. This proves a problem however because your able to switch mechs...there isn't really a way to account for that.

Of course right now the numbers don't mean much because people K/ds are insane due to clans entering pubs and uneven games. This also only calculates skill for TDM and DM. Skill in OBJ based games is entirely different.

Edited by Necro, November 29 2012 - 04:01 AM.


#14 z121231211

z121231211

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 453 posts

Posted November 29 2012 - 03:36 AM

"((Kill+assist)/death) * damage ratio) / time in combat)"
Ok let's simplify this!

((Kills+Assists)*[Total Damage]) / (Deaths*[Time in Combat]^2)

So let's say you have a KA/D of 1 and a Damage Ratio of 1
1/[Time in Combat]

This number will get closer to 0 the longer you play.

Edited by z121231211, November 29 2012 - 03:36 AM.

Desert Fox

#15 Necro

Necro

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,262 posts

Posted November 29 2012 - 03:46 AM

I overlooked that, it's fixed. I was implementing the Skill part to counter act that but I didn't realize the ratios would be the same throughout for some reason.

Now it's just Skill increase compared to time played since the last calculation.

You get less 50% more skilled in X amount of time it raises Y much

You get 50% less skilled in X amount of time it will lower it by Y much.

You stay at your current skilled rate 0% change multiplied by any time played keeps you at the same value. Or

1 + (change in skill * time played since last calculation)

This could tend to give improper values at first play so something would have to be put in to contract that. maybe newer players would have to play a certain amount of time before there skill increase * time played score is calculated and added to the equation or something.

Thanks :)

Edited by Necro, November 29 2012 - 04:05 AM.


#16 z121231211

z121231211

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 453 posts

Posted November 29 2012 - 03:57 AM

Now it's even more broken.


View PostNecro, on November 29 2012 - 03:05 AM, said:

((Kill+assist)/death) * damage ratio) / (Skill increase * time in combat)
This can be rewritten as:
((Kills+Assists)*[Total Damage]) / (Deaths*[Skill Increase]*[Time Played]^2)

If KA/D and Damage Ratio is constant (1):
1 / ([Skill Increase]*[Time Played])

Eventually all you want to do is decrease your [Skill Increase] as much as possible.
Desert Fox

#17 Necro

Necro

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,262 posts

Posted November 29 2012 - 04:01 AM

Suppose to be addition changed again.

It's 6:00 in the morning here and i haven't slept yet btw :)

Edited by Necro, November 29 2012 - 04:09 AM.


#18 z121231211

z121231211

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 453 posts

Posted November 29 2012 - 04:15 AM

Same here.
Desert Fox

#19 Necro

Necro

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,262 posts

Posted November 29 2012 - 04:17 AM

Atleast i fixed the damn thing xD.

thanks and good night.

#20 JustJake

JustJake

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 97 posts

Posted November 29 2012 - 04:42 AM

Necro starts lots of these silly threads. Maybe I'm just an old fuzzy bunny, but back in the day there was no such thing as "matchmaking." You found a low-ping server in the browser that had enough space for you and your buddies, and you tried to carve a place for yourself. Why do you need to guess at a player's skill? You'll know soon enough when you're locked in heated combat.

Posted Image





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users