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Q(3)vsUT? Moved anyway.


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#1 Sparkard

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Posted November 18 2012 - 04:17 PM

So... in MG turret thread an interesting and fierce discussion arose about Quake and Unreal Tournament. In order to stop the offtop in that topic which gave a lot of feedback from players on mg turrets, i've let myself to try to move it here.
I hope that i haven't missed or mixed anything, however if i did and you'd like to see it here, let me know eighter by PM or just by writing here.
Sorry for all those quote pyramids but i didn't want to edit  (aka "fix") what someone else said and there's only one <snip>.

View PostBeemann, on November 15 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

Want a good example of a game with good balance based around high end play? Quake works for that, as does Starcraft

View PostDarkPulse, on November 16 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

View PostBeemann, on November 15 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

Want a good example of a game with good balance based around high end play? Quake works for that, as does Starcraft
Won't comment on Starcraft, but Quake? You're joking.
  • Q1: Rocket Launcher and Lightning Gun.
  • Q2: Hyperblaster, SSG, Rocket Launcher, Grenade Launcher, Railgun.
  • Q3: Railgun and Rocket Launcher. And lots of timing the Megahealth and Red Armor.
The FPS with the best weapon balance to date was actually probably Doom, where even the Pistol would work in a pinch. I can't say that about any Quake game.

View PostBeemann, on November 16 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

View PostDarkPulse, on November 16 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

  • Q3: Railgun and Rocket Launcher. And lots of timing the Megahealth and Red Armor.
The FPS with the best weapon balance to date was actually probably Doom, where even the Pistol would work in a pinch. I can't say that about any Quake game.
I'm sorry, what?
Show me a Quake 3 comp match where only the RL and Rail are used, or even where they're the only weapons that truly matter
Plasma and GL get used for harassment and area denial, LG gets used EXCESSIVELY in straight fights and quite a few fights have come down to a good short-range burst from the Shotgun
And even then, you're dealing with a game in which both teams have access to the SAME weapons. To compare it, just for a moment, to SC, you don't have a game that's imbalanced just because someone queues up more of one unit than another. It's all about proper utilization of the resources you have

Mega and RA are both centralizing factors to an otherwise chaotic deathmatch mode. 1v1s in Quake need to be grounded. If you watch the attempts at Rocket Arena comp you'll know that it took ages to get anything done, because everyone just camped out after a certain point and waited for the enemy to come to them. Outside of that you could play an eternal game of cat and mouse and nobody would ever get anything done
RA and Mega force conflicts, and give an advantage to the victor. They aren't even a deciding factor at THAT point
There are MANY matches that you can look up yourself on youtube in which players like Rapha make up for a lost RA by cycling Yellows, and slowly build a big enough stack to match their opponents
And again, they're equally available to everyone

Quake 3 is built for high-end play, particularly when you factor in CPM
Strafe jumping is a little tricky for some folks to learn initially, but it's fairly simple to do it on a basic level once you know what the proper mouse and keyboard movements are, and it's part of a movement system with nigh-infinite potential
The guns all work well for their given niche, and with the exception of the CG they're all completely reliable. The LG, Shotgun, Railgun, Plasma, Rocket Launcher and Grenade Launcher will always fire in the same manner. It's entirely up to the player to get them to hit the target, and to fire them at their optimal range/in the right setting

View PostDarkPulse, on November 17 2012 - 06:46 AM, said:

To Beemann on Quake 3: Pretty much any match on Q3DM17. Or, if you prefer, Q3Tourney6. That said, I'm not going to get into an argument on Quake 3 here. Especially since I was a UT player, which makes you a heretic. :P

Regarding D20Face's post on how holograms can distract turrets: There was my thing I did not know for the day. That actually makes Holograms kind of useful!

View PostBeemann, on November 17 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:

View PostDarkPulse, on November 17 2012 - 06:46 AM, said:

To Beemann on Quake 3: Pretty much any match on Q3DM17. Or, if you prefer, Q3Tourney6. That said, I'm not going to get into an argument on Quake 3 here. Especially since I was a UT player, which makes you a heretic. :P

Oh dear
Not only did you fail to come up with any comp videos that show exclusively rocket and rail, but you've also shown your true colours
UT  has an inferior jerky movement system, and a comp scene that honestly does revolve around 2 guns (shock rifle and sniper rifle)
And I can post videos of that being the case

View Post3Jane, on November 17 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

Those q3 maps are just stupid pub maps made for people to basically practice spawn fuzzy bunny and aim with rail though lol ;)

I miss UT. I miss translocating inside someone else body and making the blow up from the inside. CTF <3

Edited by Sparkard, November 18 2012 - 04:41 PM.


#2 Sparkard

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Posted November 18 2012 - 04:20 PM

View PostSparkard, on November 17 2012 - 05:49 PM, said:

View PostDarkPulse, on November 17 2012 - 06:46 AM, said:

To Beemann on Quake 3: Pretty much any match on Q3DM17. Or, if you prefer, Q3Tourney6.
Whoah, you're soo underestimating MG and shotgun, especially the MG with it's awesome precision and pushing power.
(And even plasma can be used on q3dm17  for quad to rail rocket SWOB or simply ground boosting but that's another story... and a little bit of an over-kill).

View PostBeemann, on November 17 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

@Sparkard
I think you mean LG :P
MG makes it sound like you're talking about the CG, which actually does have a small CoF
LG is pinpoint-accurate and pushes targets

View Post3Jane, on November 17 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

Those q3 maps are just stupid pub maps
Pretty much

View PostDarkPulse, on November 18 2012 - 01:54 AM, said:

View PostBeemann, on November 17 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:

Oh dear
Not only did you fail to come up with any comp videos that show exclusively rocket and rail, but you've also shown your true colours
UT  has an inferior jerky movement system, and a comp scene that honestly does revolve around 2 guns (shock rifle and sniper rifle)
And I can post videos of that being the case
Only in UT2003/UT2004. UT99 is a lot more varied, as is UT3.

Then again, UT2003/UT2004 is a lot more like Quake... which should say something if Shock/Lightning Gun became the weapons everyone used in high level play.

And yes, sorry that we didn't have bunny hopping. It's what made your game more fun for some and less fun for others.

(Critics would argue UT won that battle by a narrow margin, by the way - even if it was technically inferior and less refined, it was more varied, and it's put out three sequels to Quake's two - one of which wasn't exactly played competitively online... not to mention this game is running on UDK and not id Tech 5. :P)

View PostSparkard, on November 17 2012 - 05:49 PM, said:

Whoah, you're soo underestimating MG and shotgun, especially the MG with it's awesome precision and pushing power.
(And even plasma can be used on q3dm17  for quad to rail rocket SWOB or simply ground boosting but that's another story... and a little bit of an over-kill).
I don't play Q3. I find it boring as hell to be honest. It would've been a lot more interesting to me without bunny hopping, but what made the game awesome for others effectively ruined it for me, because it made it almost too easy to control things and run loops, plus it forces everyone who wants to do good to use it or lose - two players of equal skill, but one who can bunny hop for speed versus one who cannot, the hopper will win because he'll get to the weapons/items quicker.

But I digress. This isn't supposed to be an argument about Q3. You have your likes and I have mine.

View PostSparkard, on November 18 2012 - 01:58 AM, said:

View PostDarkPulse, on November 18 2012 - 01:54 AM, said:

I don't play Q3. I find it boring as hell to be honest. It would've been a lot more interesting to me without bunny hopping, but what made the game awesome for others effectively ruined it for me, because it made it almost too easy to control things and run loops, plus it forces everyone who wants to do good to use it or lose - two players of equal skill, but one who can bunny hop for speed versus one who cannot, the hopper will win because he'll get to the weapons/items quicker.

But I digress. This isn't supposed to be an argument about Q3. You have your likes and I have mine.
Although i'm now about 2(-3) years into defrag (if you know what i mean) i still think that's not very biased to say that you saying that strafe jumping is stupid because it gives an advantage to people who can do it is like saying that proper aiming is stupid because it gives an advantage to players that are skilled.

Nonetheless, i perfectly understand why you dislike Q3 and idk why are you so defensive about that, really no one here tries to force you into liking it. For me it just looks like you've been involved into too many "Q3 vs UT" topics in the past :P :) .

View PostBeemann, on November 17 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

@Sparkard
I think you mean LG :P
MG makes it sound like you're talking about the CG, which actually does have a small CoF
LG is pinpoint-accurate and pushes targets
Puting aside that there's no LG on dm17, it have a crappy range.
The TA CG? Meh, still not too accurate, and kinda not my thing but that's not the point.
Anyway, don't tell me that no one ever "helped" you to the rail platorm (or bfg on Tourney6) ... and beyond it.
If there was more players knowing what they're doing at dm17, MG would eat you before you'd even get to RL... no to mention the rail.
MG ->really<- have a decent damage AND pushing power. Don't tell me you're one of those guys that keeps spaming rockets when enemy is on a railgun range (and you don't have rail)... :S .


#3 Sparkard

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Posted November 18 2012 - 04:21 PM

View PostBeemann, on November 18 2012 - 03:37 AM, said:

View PostSparkard, on November 18 2012 - 01:58 AM, said:

Puting aside that there's no LG on dm17, it have a crappy range.
The TA CG? Meh, still not too accurate, and kinda not my thing but that's not the point.
Anyway, don't tell me that no one ever "helped" you to the rail platorm (or bfg on Tourney6) ... and beyond it.
If there was more players knowing what they're doing at dm17, MG would eat you before you'd even get to RL... no to mention the rail.
MG ->really<- have a decent damage AND pushing power. Don't tell me you're one of those guys that keeps spaming rockets when enemy is on a railgun range (and you don't have rail)... :S .
I play CPM/QLive. There IS no MG :P
I also make a point of not playing DM17 though... that is, when I'm not running around in DeFraG like a kid in a candy shop

@DarkPulse
This IS actually relevant to Hawken<snip>. I've made a new thread here http://community.pla...for-spectators/

Also, you still have yet to prove that Q3 was all about the rail and rocket launcher ;)

View PostSparkard, on November 18 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

Then what IS this Oo http://quake.wikia.c...achine_Gun_(Q3)
EDIT://
And CG ability to push ppl into the void on space maps is just bad, works only at close range, when it's already spinning and you haven't yet ran out of ammo (but by NO means i'm saying that this weap is bad or something)

View PostDarkPulse, on November 18 2012 - 05:41 AM, said:

View PostBeemann, on November 18 2012 - 03:37 AM, said:

Also, you still have yet to prove that Q3 was all about the rail and rocket launcher ;)
Put it this way: If UT is all Shock and Sniper/Lightning Gun, Quake is all Railgun and Rocket Launcher. ;)

Maybe not true in a technical sense, but very likely the first weapons you'll think of unless you're a fan of the series. Me, I'd personally think stuff like Translocator, Flak Cannon, GES Biorifle... but yes, the Shock Rifle is there; however, not just as the "Shock Rifle," but as the "ASMD Shock Rifle."

Even funnier if you remember what "GES" and "ASMD" stand for. Quake doesn't have a monopoly on naughty weapon acronyms, after all. :)

View PostBeemann, on November 18 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

View PostDarkPulse, on November 18 2012 - 05:41 AM, said:

Put it this way: If UT is all Shock and Sniper/Lightning Gun, Quake is all Railgun and Rocket Launcher. ;)

Maybe not true in a technical sense, but very likely the first weapons you'll think of unless you're a fan of the series. Me, I'd personally think stuff like Translocator, Flak Cannon, GES Biorifle... but yes, the Shock Rifle is there; however, not just as the "Shock Rifle," but as the "ASMD Shock Rifle."

Even funnier if you remember what "GES" and "ASMD" stand for. Quake doesn't have a monopoly on naughty weapon acronyms, after all. :)
Except I'm talking about actual competitive play
I managed to find a match where Flak got used, but it was only because everyone kept hopping into CQC
All the heavy lifting was done with the Shock Rifle
You won't see that n Quake. The LG plays too important a role, as does the GL
The remainder of the weapons in UT see less use in the comp games I've watched than the Quake shotgun


View PostSparkard, on November 18 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

Then what IS this Oo http://quake.wikia.c...achine_Gun_(Q3)
EDIT://
And CG ability to push ppl into the void on space maps is just bad, works only at close range, when it's already spinning and you haven't yet ran out of ammo (but by NO means i'm saying that this weap is bad or something)
EDIT2://
Anyway, i don't think that there's much more to say, yet if you'd liek to continue then make a topic on that matter in offtop, before something bad happens :P
And apparently I've gone and got my quake guns mixed up
It's the Chaingun that I don't really see on the QLive and CPM games I play, and the MG that I should have been referring to this whole time
My bad

Serves me right for bailing on sleep :P

View PostDarkPulse, on November 18 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

View PostBeemann, on November 18 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

Except I'm talking about actual competitive play
I managed to find a match where Flak got used, but it was only because everyone kept hopping into CQC
All the heavy lifting was done with the Shock Rifle
You won't see that n Quake. The LG plays too important a role, as does the GL
The remainder of the weapons in UT see less use in the comp games I've watched than the Quake shotgun
And? That doesn't make it better, merely different. Different sort of game, different sort of weapons needed for good play. UT really has no rapid-fire weapons except for the Minigun. Well, and the Ripper in the original UT, but people cried because people could bank shots off walls and chop your head off with it, so it got tossed.


#4 Sparkard

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Posted November 18 2012 - 04:44 PM

@Beemann:
By QL and CPM do you mean QL and QL/"CMP" or QL and CPMA/CPM?
Because tbh i really hate QL physics, and you should know what i'm talking about if you're into DeFRaG.
QL/CPM isn't as bad as just QL but still :S .

#5 Beemann

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Posted November 19 2012 - 02:53 AM

Yeah I was referring to CPMA
I also play DeFRaG with CPM settings
Slowly been workin my way through trick maps. I've never played a game where my skill level increases in such huge leaps and bounds. I think I've figured it all out and then I discover the one thing I've been doing wrong and suddenly everything else gets twice as easy to do

I don't really mind QLive, it makes the game much more accessible at the cost of the feel and nuances of more precise and skilful Q3/CPMA movement system. I can understand why others would take issue with it, but Quake has always struggled somewhat with gaining more players. It never reached the same level of accessibility as other esports titles. I totally "get" why they made it simpler

Edited by Beemann, November 19 2012 - 02:53 AM.

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#6 Slp_

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Posted November 19 2012 - 08:53 AM

In UT99, the top level competition consisted of something like...

- Experienced, competitive players who used almost only the shock rifle and sniper rifle
- Exceptionally good players who could use any weapon effectively

I used to play it competitively back in the day, and you could very easily pick out the exceptional players from the rest.  Look up videos (or .dem recordings) of some top level play.  Some maps it was even favorable to use flak and rocket launcher in many situations, over the shock/sniper (such as in CTF-Coret).  Also, check out the WCG 2001 Grand Final between Gitz and Pain, for example; he abused pulse gun (aka Plasma gun) extensively. (edit: here's the vid: )  Hitscan rapidfire weapons such as minigun and plasma gun's secondary fire are actually quite effective if you know how to make use of them.  While the shock rifle is very versatile for a variety of situations, it's not optimal to use it 100% of the time; there are still plenty of ways to fake out your opponents and catch them off guard by switching between weapons based on your positioning.  That's generally how the exceptional players could outplay the 'mainstream competitive' players who only used shock and sniper.

Kind of too bad that most FPS nowadays are the same military shooter clone over and over with a few small tweaks... where almost all weapons are identical (a gun that shoots bullets, another gun that shoots bullets slightly faster, and then the same gun again with slightly more dmg, etc).  I still play UT99 even today, because there aren't many fast-paced shooters with good enough gameplay to be worth playing.  We'll see what Hawken turns out to be like; it's showing some promise, so far.  The weapon variety still needs work, but the core gameplay is good.

#7 Sparkard

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Posted November 19 2012 - 12:15 PM

@Beemann:
Yeah, saying that quake has been somewhat struggling with gaining new players or rather getting them more involved is a severe understatement. Being killed with a rocket from nowhere "before" you even spawn is not really enticing, and even if you won't get killed, you'll be wrecked a moment later.
Tbh there's not much in quake's mechanics to learn or master and even strafe jumping is not something that you'll try to use even near to it's fullest extent in normal game unless it's meaby cpma. But the way it all works together actually provides an extreemly long skill curve and players that didn't jump on the bandwagon with others on similiar level are unable to just pick it up.
In fact, that was my case, especially that i just wasn't too good in shooting games and quake in particular, and so i used to play UT, to be honest i used to think that UT was/is a more interesting game and slightly "better" game and i still do. It's just that once get to a minimal level in quake.. it's soo much more fun to play, it's sucking you in. Even to that day, even if i rarely jump into ql for few rounds, i still play defrag from time to time which i can't say about UT. And i think that's what accountedm for quake's longevity.

I think that QL is a great project that allowed many new players to jump into earlier mentioned bandwagon and i perfectly understand why they wanted to make strafejumping more noob-friendly and cutting in half the distance between skill floor and ceiling while still making you feel that your skills are the most important and there's always some room to improve.
But QL phisics with all that more inertion, less friction etc. make my char feel way too clumsy. It's harder to controll it effectively but there's just no room to improve yourself in that matter.

@Slp_:
It's just the problem of FPSs in general. One generation of players goes away, another one comes and they get the same proven franchise with just new skin, and ppl that are more into it suffer.
But we have to take into consideration that atm more and more casuals are starting to play games and for now large companies feel that they can get away with selling the same thing with new skin, yet once the market gets saturated enough it should change... or at least i hope so.
Putting it in fancy pompous words - once the new persisten generation of devoted players will establish, companies should be surprised to find their wrath when our wallets will close for them - :P .
But a little bit more serious, even inveterate kids start to boycott another skins for (for e.g.) CoD and other similiar games.

Edited by Sparkard, November 19 2012 - 12:17 PM.


#8 Beemann

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Posted November 19 2012 - 01:45 PM

@Slp
I actually found that match a little frustrating to watch
With an end score of 22 to 9, that couldn't really be seen as anything BUT a roflstomp
The POV player's opponent was awful at tracking, kept running into small corridors, and barely dodged in fights. Most fights ended in a few seconds due to the lack of mobility options
There wasn't really much cat-and-mouse, just spot-and-kill

@Darkpulse (from the last thread)

View PostDarkPulse, on November 18 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

And? That doesn't make it better, merely different. Different sort of game, different sort of weapons needed for good play. UT really has no rapid-fire weapons except for the Minigun. Well, and the Ripper in the original UT, but people cried because people could bank shots off walls and chop your head off with it, so it got tossed.
Your argument was that Quake only used two guns. When I offered to provide evidence that UT is more 2-gun-centric than Quake, you chose to ignore that fact. Now you're instead arguing that it's "just a different sort of game"?
As for the "no rapid fire weapons" thing, what about the Pulse Gun? and how rapid is rapid? Can the Bio rifle and Enforcer secondary fire be included?
In Quake, at a competitive level, you have LG, Plasma and MG (and I very rarely see MG used in a tournament setting, particularly given the maps involved)
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#9 Slp_

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Posted November 19 2012 - 05:18 PM

View PostBeemann, on November 19 2012 - 01:45 PM, said:

With an end score of 22 to 9, that couldn't really be seen as anything BUT a roflstomp
The POV player's opponent was awful at tracking, kept running into small corridors, and barely dodged in fights. Most fights ended in a few seconds due to the lack of mobility options
There wasn't really much cat-and-mouse, just spot-and-kill

No idea how you came up with those statements.

#10 Beemann

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Posted November 19 2012 - 06:09 PM

View PostSlp_, on November 19 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

No idea how you came up with those statements.
Er... how exactly?
The match you linked was won by a player with a 13 point lead
The player who lost showed mediocre tracking ability for a comp player, and kept positioning himself poorly (like jumping into a narrow corridor to escape, What's juking?)
Nearly every fight in that match was over as quickly as it started, with the PoV player winning by a landslide

Edited by Beemann, November 19 2012 - 06:11 PM.

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#11 Sparkard

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Posted November 20 2012 - 05:11 AM

Tbh for a comp player the winner also had kinda mediocre aiming skills :S
And i wouldn't say that the guy that lost was that bad with juking and ducking, the winner simply had some pretty good movement and positioning "abilities" imho.
It's hard to judge properly when we could only watch it from one pov, but that doesn't change the fact that it looked pretty much one-sided.

For a comparison, just the first better video from Quake:


Edit://
Also he spammed shockriffle at random but hey, it's the same for RL and nades in Quake.
Edit://
Hmm, although the vid that i posted is also pretty much onesided, but you i think there's still some difference

Edited by Sparkard, November 20 2012 - 08:25 AM.


#12 Slp_

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Posted November 20 2012 - 12:57 PM

View PostBeemann, on November 19 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

View PostSlp_, on November 19 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

No idea how you came up with those statements.
Er... how exactly?
The match you linked was won by a player with a 13 point lead
The player who lost showed mediocre tracking ability for a comp player, and kept positioning himself poorly (like jumping into a narrow corridor to escape, What's juking?)
Nearly every fight in that match was over as quickly as it started, with the PoV player winning by a landslide

Nope.  I have no idea what you're talking about.

You haven't said anything in reference to the weapon viability of UT99, which is what my initial post described.

To clear up the confusion; UT99 is definitely playable if you want to use only 2 weapons.  You might do well against most players, but you will get destroyed by the top players who know how to take advantage of all the weapons.

#13 Beemann

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Posted November 20 2012 - 01:35 PM

View PostSlp_, on November 20 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

View PostBeemann, on November 19 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

View PostSlp_, on November 19 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

No idea how you came up with those statements.
Er... how exactly?
The match you linked was won by a player with a 13 point lead
The player who lost showed mediocre tracking ability for a comp player, and kept positioning himself poorly (like jumping into a narrow corridor to escape, What's juking?)
Nearly every fight in that match was over as quickly as it started, with the PoV player winning by a landslide

Nope.  I have no idea what you're talking about.

You haven't said anything in reference to the weapon viability of UT99, which is what my initial post described.

To clear up the confusion; UT99 is definitely playable if you want to use only 2 weapons.  You might do well against most players, but you will get destroyed by the top players who know how to take advantage of all the weapons.
You can`t prove weapon viability with a roflstomp. If you`d like I can bring in Aftershock Launcher footage from GA, but that won`t prove that the Aftershock Launcher isn`t trash
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#14 Slp_

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Posted November 21 2012 - 04:29 AM

View PostBeemann, on November 20 2012 - 01:35 PM, said:

View PostSlp_, on November 20 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

View PostBeemann, on November 19 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

View PostSlp_, on November 19 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

No idea how you came up with those statements.
Er... how exactly?
The match you linked was won by a player with a 13 point lead
The player who lost showed mediocre tracking ability for a comp player, and kept positioning himself poorly (like jumping into a narrow corridor to escape, What's juking?)
Nearly every fight in that match was over as quickly as it started, with the PoV player winning by a landslide

Nope.  I have no idea what you're talking about.

You haven't said anything in reference to the weapon viability of UT99, which is what my initial post described.

To clear up the confusion; UT99 is definitely playable if you want to use only 2 weapons.  You might do well against most players, but you will get destroyed by the top players who know how to take advantage of all the weapons.
You can`t prove weapon viability with a roflstomp. If you`d like I can bring in Aftershock Launcher footage from GA, but that won`t prove that the Aftershock Launcher isn`t trash

Idk what you're talking about.

#15 RedVan

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Posted November 22 2012 - 11:03 PM

I've always preferred UT to quake.  Just feels less spammy over all imo.  But I like quake too

Here's an example of a good UT player

Edited by RedVan, November 22 2012 - 11:04 PM.


#16 Beemann

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Posted November 22 2012 - 11:40 PM

View PostSlp_, on November 21 2012 - 04:29 AM, said:

Idk what you're talking about.
I was making a reference to an entirely fuzzy bunny weapon that nobody really used in Global Agenda. I can show you clips of people destroying pubbies with it if you'd like
The video you showed involved one person with far better FPS fundamentals than the other, that doesn't really prove that more than 2 weapons are competitively viable, that just shows that the competitive scene has a huge skill gap in it

Oh and I was wrong about Quake tournament play dropping off in 2010. There's still IEM stuff in 2011
http://youtu.be/sFDza830p3I
Match begins at about 12:30

Edited by Beemann, November 22 2012 - 11:42 PM.

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#17 aethernet

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Posted November 23 2012 - 08:44 AM

http://youtu.be/NkK80yRjrgM

http://youtu.be/J3WjOIgivCU

Edited by aethernet, November 23 2012 - 09:34 AM.

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#18 Beemann

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Posted November 23 2012 - 03:12 PM

Well if we're going to show OTHER arena games :P
http://youtu.be/aDyHtuljdo8
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#19 Sparkard

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Posted November 23 2012 - 05:01 PM

Idk, looks kinda generic to me. I prefer

Edited by Sparkard, November 23 2012 - 05:07 PM.


#20 Slp_

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Posted November 23 2012 - 05:49 PM

View PostBeemann, on November 22 2012 - 11:40 PM, said:

View PostSlp_, on November 21 2012 - 04:29 AM, said:

Idk what you're talking about.
I was making a reference to an entirely fuzzy bunny weapon that nobody really used in Global Agenda. I can show you clips of people destroying pubbies with it if you'd like
The video you showed involved one person with far better FPS fundamentals than the other, that doesn't really prove that more than 2 weapons are competitively viable, that just shows that the competitive scene has a huge skill gap in it

No idea what that's supposed to mean.




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