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questions answered: Sharpshooter's need balancing


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#1 SweetTooth

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Posted October 31 2012 - 01:53 AM

I was wondering why I was so fixated on sharpshooters and why I thought they needed a bit of a tweak.

Both my friend and I were playing beta and it dawned on me. Sharpshooter should be a light mech.

Why do they have the amount of health they have, as well as the firepower, while other classes like berserker  or infiltrator do less damage and have less health, with the only thing to balance things out being mobility (which really doesn't help much at all, if the opponent knows what they're doing).

They need to be classified as a light mech, or have health reduction. They can sit too comfortably and snipe across the map, eating tow missiles like candy during halloween. As a recon class, they should already be in a light mech suit. They aren't supposed to see much up-close fighting so it's not necessary for them to have it.

On a side note, my main concern stems from watching my close friend shoot two TOW missiles (direct hit, direct hit) and approx. 20-35 smg rounds at a Sharpshooter. His health was at around 35% while my friend took one or two shots from a heat cannon (>25% health left).

happy halloween by the way.

#2 Subdivision

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Posted October 31 2012 - 02:01 AM

Without going into NDA covered material, I have a suspicion this will become apparent in later testing stages. We shall wait and see

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#3 BuffMyRadius

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Posted October 31 2012 - 02:28 AM

^As someone who has played the Alpha, I think the most we are allowed to say is this: This Beta is but an appetizer to the feast to come.
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#4 UjestShurly

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Posted October 31 2012 - 06:06 AM

View PostSweetTooth, on October 31 2012 - 01:53 AM, said:

I was wondering why I was so fixated on sharpshooters and why I thought they needed a bit of a tweak.

Both my friend and I were playing beta and it dawned on me. Sharpshooter should be a light mech.

Why do they have the amount of health they have, as well as the firepower, while other classes like berserker  or infiltrator do less damage and have less health, with the only thing to balance things out being mobility (which really doesn't help much at all, if the opponent knows what they're doing).

They need to be classified as a light mech, or have health reduction. They can sit too comfortably and snipe across the map, eating tow missiles like candy during halloween. As a recon class, they should already be in a light mech suit. They aren't supposed to see much up-close fighting so it's not necessary for them to have it.

On a side note, my main concern stems from watching my close friend shoot two TOW missiles (direct hit, direct hit) and approx. 20-35 smg rounds at a Sharpshooter. His health was at around 35% while my friend took one or two shots from a heat cannon (>25% health left).

happy halloween by the way.

I played the Sharpshooter through out beta, and from my experience you were missing the target.
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#5 RedVan

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Posted October 31 2012 - 07:54 AM

I played sharpshooter, assault, and infiltrator through the beta, and sharpshooter and assault in alpha.  The balance in beta feels quite good, if anything, assault is a tad on the "OP" side, but not anything terrible.

Get up close and personnel with sharpshooters to take them out, their necessity to zoom to use the sabat means you can dodge out of view easily.  That is their weakness.  I've had no problems taking sharpshooters out with any of the 3 mechs I mentioned having used in beta.

I also got taken out alot as sharpshooter by other mechs, you really need to be on your game to play close range as sharpshooter.  If the other team is getting taken out by a sharpshooter sitting in the back sniping, they're not playing properly.  It's not an issue of the sharpshooter being OP, rather an issue of the other team being bad.

EDIT:
Also remember, if you make the sharpshooter a light mech, you also increase its speed/maneuverability.  From all my time playing, the greater maneuverability, the higher likelihood of survival, regardless of armor.  By being a medium mech, though more armor, the lower speed and maneuverability make them extremely vulnerable targets

Edited by RedVan, October 31 2012 - 08:12 AM.


#6 DarkPulse

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Posted October 31 2012 - 08:19 AM

Sharpshooter is actually the worst class, in terms of max DPS. Yes, the Sabot hits hard, but if you miss, it has a big recharge delay, and so it's very unforgiving for missed shots - in this sense, it's arguably the weapon that has the highest penalty for failing to hit.

Their other two weapons are the Slug Rifle and the SA Hawkins. The Slug Rifle is a decent mix of damage and fire rate, but obviously it's nowhere near other, more offensively-minded mechs. The SA Hawkins feels so useless that I really don't ever use it (and hate it when I forget to swap it at the start of every match... please let the game REMEMBER this setting, devs). Presumably when you max them out they'll get alternate weapons, but those did not seem to be in as of this test, so I don't know what they are.

So in short, you're asking to punish someone because they're about precision aim and can hit you further than you can hit them, while seemingly having "too much" armor, as opposed to doing effective counter-sniper strategies.

Also, 675 Armor is nothing. Yes, they can boost it to 750 with a certain optimization, but that's nothing against a sustained assault. Like in any other FPS, snipers play a different mindset, and distance is always their friend until it disappears.

PS: Berserker and Infiltrator can be downright beastly. Again, just need the right setup and to play to your strengths.

Edited by DarkPulse, October 31 2012 - 08:21 AM.

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#7 RedVan

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Posted October 31 2012 - 08:28 AM

I didn't find SA Hawkins to be bad at all actually, granted, I generally chose the slug, due to my play style, but either way, I do about the same damage.

#8 BeefC4ke

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Posted October 31 2012 - 10:10 AM

I totally agree with the OP in that a light version at least should be supplied. Not sure if I would convert the sharpshooter to do it though. I was also in alpha and miss something I loved greatly.
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#9 Beefsweat

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Posted October 31 2012 - 10:44 AM

I agree with OP, I think the sharpshooter should be a light-class.
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#10 Culex

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Posted October 31 2012 - 11:03 AM

The thing is if they are a light class, they make escape melee confrontations more easily (if they choose to flee). If they choose to fight back, most experienced snipers will scope shoot, side-dodge out of LoS, side-dodge back in/walk laterally, and repeat. In the period where they are in LoS and whenever they are scoping, the lack of armor/hp will make them even more susceptible to any explosion followed up with a sustained M1. so I don't know which I would prefer...maybe light since they are less designed to fight in close distances (but then they may utilize escaping and reaim from a distance vs standing ground and fighting back).

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#11 Elix

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Posted October 31 2012 - 11:05 AM

View PostRedVan, on October 31 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

Get up close and personnel with sharpshooters to take them out, their necessity to zoom to use the sabat means you can dodge out of view easily.  That is their weakness.
You can accurately fire the sabot without scoping in. However, in order for it to be accurate, you either need to be scoped in or standing still. Firing the sabot, unscoped, on the move is just giving yourself heat unless you're lucky with your shot or it's almost point-blank.
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#12 SilentCid

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Posted October 31 2012 - 11:33 AM

I don't believe it should be a lighter mech as people should change their mindsets based on who they are fighting. I been using the sharpshooter exclusively this beta. What I do not see often is when I'm fighting an assault or an infiltrator is players taking advantage of the environment.  Example of this is on the map Andromeda on the upper road. A player in the TV mech trying to take me on in an open area from a distance. Assault weapon isn't going to be that effective for one and tow missiles can be dodge. One needs to find a way to close the gap and get up and personnel on against them.

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#13 Ai

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Posted October 31 2012 - 06:16 PM

View PostElix, on October 31 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

View PostRedVan, on October 31 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

Get up close and personnel with sharpshooters to take them out, their necessity to zoom to use the sabat means you can dodge out of view easily.  That is their weakness.
You can accurately fire the sabot without scoping in. However, in order for it to be accurate, you either need to be scoped in or standing still. Firing the sabot, unscoped, on the move is just giving yourself heat unless you're lucky with your shot or it's almost point-blank.
The tactic I use is to fire sabot in between the dashes to the side that split second you are standing still, 1 on 1 I usually never need to shoot sabot more than twice against A or B mechs

#14 RedVan

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Posted November 05 2012 - 07:03 AM

View PostElix, on October 31 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

View PostRedVan, on October 31 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

Get up close and personnel with sharpshooters to take them out, their necessity to zoom to use the sabat means you can dodge out of view easily.  That is their weakness.
You can accurately fire the sabot without scoping in. However, in order for it to be accurate, you either need to be scoped in or standing still. Firing the sabot, unscoped, on the move is just giving yourself heat unless you're lucky with your shot or it's almost point-blank.

If you're standing still, you're dead.

#15 BeefC4ke

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Posted November 05 2012 - 09:49 AM

View PostRedVan, on November 05 2012 - 07:03 AM, said:

View PostElix, on October 31 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

View PostRedVan, on October 31 2012 - 07:54 AM, said:

Get up close and personnel with sharpshooters to take them out, their necessity to zoom to use the sabat means you can dodge out of view easily.  That is their weakness.
You can accurately fire the sabot without scoping in. However, in order for it to be accurate, you either need to be scoped in or standing still. Firing the sabot, unscoped, on the move is just giving yourself heat unless you're lucky with your shot or it's almost point-blank.

If you're standing still, you're dead.

I agree with this guy for the most part. I don't think there's anything wrong with standing still for a split second. Even though people have been successful camping with a sharpshooter, I think it's a waste of time and, in general, a death sentence to stand around and camp a spot unless youre doing it for a damn good reason.
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#16 Elix

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Posted November 05 2012 - 09:51 AM

Not in team modes, you aren't. However, you don't want to kick off your shoes and have a picnic. Which at least a couple people did with Sharpshooter and actually triggered the five-minute you-didn't-move idle kick, heh.
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#17 RedVan

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Posted November 05 2012 - 12:42 PM

I'll be honest:  sharpshooters were the most worthless teammates in siege mode for the most part because they thought they were helping by sitting back and sniping, while the enemy held the AA turret.  So even if a sniper is doing what a sniper does, they're pretty worthless to a team in siege and missile.  Then when they go in to try to recap, or prevent a cap, they're rushing straight into their own weakness.

#18 BeefC4ke

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Posted November 05 2012 - 01:33 PM

View PostRedVan, on November 05 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

I'll be honest:  sharpshooters were the most worthless teammates in siege mode for the most part because they thought they were helping by sitting back and sniping, while the enemy held the AA turret.  So even if a sniper is doing what a sniper does, they're pretty worthless to a team in siege and missile.  Then when they go in to try to recap, or prevent a cap, they're rushing straight into their own weakness.

I'm just going to say that it depends on how you play. I agree about they types of players you described though. Just not about the mech that they player is playing.
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#19 NIGHTRAV3N

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Posted November 05 2012 - 02:44 PM

BeefC4ke is right. It comes down to the pilot and not just the mech.

I for one ONLY use the Sharpshooter class and with finishing top percentile every match I know from experience the SS mech is far from worthless. Especially in Siege and missile I feel like the SS can have a dominate roll. Given with the extra HP to top off at 750 I can escort A&C mechs rather well. As a sniper in most FPS I play I tend to have a vendetta against bogey sharpshooters. So with HAWKEN I'm always counter-sniping and aggressively pushing for the objective. A SS has great point man dominance when used effectively from the AA spot. With precise heavy spike damage I can force pilots to sit out of a mech battle for a repair or sit back while respawning. I'm constantly appointing enemy spotting and cover fire for the team regardless if the objective is fraggin or taking energy/points.

If you still have doubts and don't believe me then be sure to add me and party up for CBE2 this thursday.

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#20 DarkPulse

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Posted November 06 2012 - 05:24 AM

View PostRedVan, on November 05 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

I'll be honest:  sharpshooters were the most worthless teammates in siege mode for the most part because they thought they were helping by sitting back and sniping, while the enemy held the AA turret.  So even if a sniper is doing what a sniper does, they're pretty worthless to a team in siege and missile.  Then when they go in to try to recap, or prevent a cap, they're rushing straight into their own weakness.
You clearly haven't played with me. Even if I'm Sharpshooter, I'm often doing anything but hanging back. :P

Ask AsianJoyKiller, he can vouch for this personally, as we played a few matches on both same and opposing sides in CBE1.
Reason as my minor ego, and opposite my desire to be a murderer.
A coagulated, gloomy thinking in the intelligence, as my major ego.
An antinomian theorem of behaviorism, in all of my thinkings.
It's what we call "The Inversion Impulse."




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