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Turret Mode

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Poll: Turret Mode for Heavy Mechs (80 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you find turret mode useful?

  1. Yes, I use it all the time (5 votes [5.15%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.15%

  2. No, I find it useless (45 votes [46.39%])

    Percentage of vote: 46.39%

  3. It is broken. Scrap it! (9 votes [9.28%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.28%

  4. It is broken. FIX IT! (38 votes [39.18%])

    Percentage of vote: 39.18%

Would you like to see Turret mode dropped in favor of another ability?

  1. Yes (44 votes [55.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 55.00%

  2. No (36 votes [45.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 45.00%

If Turret Mode was kept what would you like to see improved? {Check all that apply}

  1. Faster Transforming (33 votes [13.52%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.52%

  2. Better Regeneration Rates (30 votes [12.30%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.30%

  3. Faster Movement (25 votes [10.25%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.25%

  4. More Durability {a decrease in damage receivd while deployed} (39 votes [15.98%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.98%

  5. Faster Rotation {horizontal rotation} (26 votes [10.66%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.66%

  6. Mini Map Added to Turret Display (36 votes [14.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.75%

  7. Zoom Addition {while deployed} (11 votes [4.51%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.51%

  8. Other (17 votes [6.97%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.97%

  9. None of the Above (1 votes [0.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.41%

  10. Scrap This Mode Entirely. Give Heavys New Ability Instead (26 votes [10.66%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.66%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 Spliff_Craven

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Posted November 27 2012 - 11:21 PM

I personally find the Turret mode on the broken side.
Observe the following:
  • Mobility - too slow

  • Transform - too slow

  • No mini map in Turret Mode

  • Slow Regeneration

  • The Rocketeer doesn't regenerate at all

  • Damages too easy while deployed

  • Slow rotation left to right and up and down

  • Nobody uses it as they are easy targets
This is a short list of what I have heard when people complain about this mode.
There are more drawbacks than benefits to being deployed. A majority of players stay "large" just because they lack decent mobility and at the least they can't shoot up or spin fast enough while deployed.

Before Beta is over this mode should be seriously reviewed and corrected.

I love this mech. :wub:
I just hate being punished for it. :angry:

Edited by Spliff_Craven, November 27 2012 - 11:22 PM.


#2 D3m0n1t3

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Posted November 27 2012 - 11:38 PM

I have to say mobility is not a problem. You trade mobility for higher defense. Makes sense, don't you think. Instead, in turret mode, it should be increase in damage reduction.

#3 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted November 27 2012 - 11:48 PM

View PostD3m0n1t3, on November 27 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

I have to say mobility is not a problem. You trade mobility for higher defense. Makes sense, don't you think. Instead, in turret mode, it should be increase in damage reduction.
With a loss of mobility, you are 100% likely to take damage if the opponent can aim.
Unless you buff resistance to stupid levels that make it OP, the loss of mobility is damning when your opponent can completely avoid damage while you can't.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

The Sinful Infil HEAT Cannon Hustler, Cloaking and Smoking, C-Class Swagger, Ballin' n' Brawlin'


#4 D3m0n1t3

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Posted November 28 2012 - 12:00 AM

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on November 27 2012 - 11:48 PM, said:

View PostD3m0n1t3, on November 27 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

I have to say mobility is not a problem. You trade mobility for higher defense. Makes sense, don't you think. Instead, in turret mode, it should be increase in damage reduction.
With a loss of mobility, you are 100% likely to take damage if the opponent can aim.
Unless you buff resistance to stupid levels that make it OP, the loss of mobility is damning when your opponent can completely avoid damage while you can't.

Yes, it can be a pain. Until your teamates arrive and rain hell on the opponent. Basically, a heavy should be more of a tanker.

#5 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted November 28 2012 - 12:02 AM

View PostD3m0n1t3, on November 28 2012 - 12:00 AM, said:

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on November 27 2012 - 11:48 PM, said:

View PostD3m0n1t3, on November 27 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

I have to say mobility is not a problem. You trade mobility for higher defense. Makes sense, don't you think. Instead, in turret mode, it should be increase in damage reduction.
With a loss of mobility, you are 100% likely to take damage if the opponent can aim.
Unless you buff resistance to stupid levels that make it OP, the loss of mobility is damning when your opponent can completely avoid damage while you can't.

Yes, it can be a pain. Until your teamates arrive and rain hell on the opponent. Basically, a heavy should be more of a tanker.
But then that points to an imbalance.
Why should any ability force such a disadvantage that your require teammates?

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

The Sinful Infil HEAT Cannon Hustler, Cloaking and Smoking, C-Class Swagger, Ballin' n' Brawlin'


#6 D3m0n1t3

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Posted November 28 2012 - 12:14 AM

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on November 28 2012 - 12:02 AM, said:


But then that points to an imbalance.
Why should any ability force such a disadvantage that your require teammates?

I don't see any disadvantages in a game that involves TEAMPLAY. I mean this game is, after all, about TEAMWORK. With just 6v6 matches, it clearly states that players move in group. Strategy-wise, the team with most cooperation wins the match.

#7 Beemann

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Posted November 28 2012 - 12:17 AM

A turret mode c class is less useful than a normal c class in pretty much every in-game situation
only on paper does the ability confer any kind of substantial bonus
Can you use it? Yes, absolutely. Sometimes you might even not die, or land a kill
Should you use it? Generally, no
Is this the case for any other ability? Hell no

Edited by Beemann, November 28 2012 - 12:18 AM.

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#8 PlagueDoctor

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Posted November 28 2012 - 12:18 AM

If all the turret modes had X amount of armor regen on the ability on top of what they already have then they might be useful.

Standing still in a game where attacks are mitigated by dodging at the right time is a recipe for death.

Edited by PlagueDoctor, November 28 2012 - 12:19 AM.

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#9 defekt

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Posted November 28 2012 - 03:15 AM

With all due respect to the OP, I think this message was received loud and clear by the devs quite some time ago.

Seeing as we’re here now -- when in Rome, etc. -- here’s my take on what should be the design parameters for C-class mech abilities, with respect to what we have in the game now:-
  • Abilities need to compliment each C-class machine’s primary modus operandi.
  • C-class abilities do not need to be trade-offs because none of the other class abilities are.
  • The ability needs to make use of the armour baffles; the model work has already been done so let’s use it.
With the above parameters in mind here’s my take on replacement C-class abilities (folks familiar with this subject will see nothing new here, with the exception of the Rocketeer idea):-

Brawler: Blitz.  A rapid, forward afterburner charge that uses the armour baffles as a battering ram causing damage and knockback to impacted mechs.  Added ‘cool factor’ could be accomplished with a ‘bulldozer blade’ armour baffle design.


Grenadier: Riot.  Armour baffles are semi-deployed, thus the mech retains full upright movement, granting significant damage mitigation from the forward 120deg arc for the duration.


Rocketeer: Heat Sink.  Armour baffles are instead huge heat radiators.  Heat radiator baffles are semi-deployed, thus the mech retains full upright movement, granting a significant heat reduction and ROF boost for all missile/rocket weaponry.  Added ‘cool factor’ could be accomplished with a ‘heat sink fins and ducts’ armour baffle design.


Edit: Apparently I can't spell, or construct coherent sentences.

Edited by defekt, November 28 2012 - 03:17 AM.


#10 Akaon

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Posted November 28 2012 - 09:15 AM

I'm all in favor of a cool turret mode, but the lack of mobility is indeed damning. You can't chase or kill anything, perhaps a turret isn't exactly supposed to do this, but ok. Not being able to kill anyone, or even damage if people take some precautions, also means you're not a threat, meaning you can *defend* but not really do anything constructive other than stand there. If they actually had normal movement speed, without being able to jump/dodge, they'd have a lot more purpose, while still giving up some important movement.
Also, increase the bonus turret form gives (other than durability), and of course, give them all passive repairs.
Makes sense to swap the increased movement speed and increased regen between brawler/rocketeer on a side note.

Turret modes are a cool idea that suit the class C mechs imo. They just suck atm.

Edit: having a trade-off is fine, just because other mechs don't have that doesn't mean nobody should. In fact, trade-offs make things more interesting imo.

Edited by Akaon, November 28 2012 - 09:16 AM.


#11 Spliff_Craven

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Posted November 28 2012 - 10:11 AM

View Postdefekt, on November 28 2012 - 03:15 AM, said:

With all due respect to the OP, I think this message was received loud and clear by the devs quite some time ago.

Seeing as we’re here now -- when in Rome, etc. -- here’s my take on what should be the design parameters for C-class mech abilities, with respect to what we have in the game now:-
  • Abilities need to compliment each C-class machine’s primary modus operandi.
  • C-class abilities do not need to be trade-offs because none of the other class abilities are.
  • The ability needs to make use of the armour baffles; the model work has already been done so let’s use it.
With the above parameters in mind here’s my take on replacement C-class abilities (folks familiar with this subject will see nothing new here, with the exception of the Rocketeer idea):-


Brawler: Blitz.  A rapid, forward afterburner charge that uses the armour baffles as a battering ram causing damage and knockback to impacted mechs.  Added ‘cool factor’ could be accomplished with a ‘bulldozer blade’ armour baffle design.


Grenadier: Riot.  Armour baffles are semi-deployed, thus the mech retains full upright movement, granting significant damage mitigation from the forward 120deg arc for the duration.


Rocketeer: Heat Sink.  Armour baffles are instead huge heat radiators.  Heat radiator baffles are semi-deployed, thus the mech retains full upright movement, granting a significant heat reduction and ROF boost for all missile/rocket weaponry.  Added ‘cool factor’ could be accomplished with a ‘heat sink fins and ducts’ armour baffle design.


Edit: Apparently I can't spell, or construct coherent sentences.

An excellent alternative!

I would still like to see any damages received reduced in these modes to reflect the deployed state.

#12 Dackstrus

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Posted November 28 2012 - 02:42 PM

Hey Spliff. I see you there. Also.


http://community.pla...ll/#entry102069

This post has a damn good idea.

View PostDackstrus, on November 23 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

I personally always thought those big arms on top could've been launchers. For other mechs.

Yes, you read that right, I wanna jump on a deployed class C and get launched across the map as class A. Right for their snipers.


In actuality, Boost the switch time, increase explosion resistances by 50%, Bullet damage by 30%, but turn slower for Rocketeer.

Grenadier should have a longer set-up time, but it increases the range and damage of weapons, Same move speed as current deployed rocketeer.

Brawler can continue moving while deploying, Only swinging the arms around infront of themselves, and taking a flat 20% damage reduction from the front, Losing only 15% Move speed.


Edit: I should also mention Grenadier would'nt lose aim speed after transforming, Hell, those poor bastards need to actually aim ahead and airshot.

This is also the max level of each ability, with the actual stats slowly rising to these numbers, instead of these at base.
That means at level one your mech while transformed would have:

Rocketeer: Explosion resistance 20% Bullet Resistance 5%
Grenadier: Would Gain a quarter as much range and damage as at max, I don't know what would be appropriate numbers..
Brawler: Would lose more speed, and take 5% reduced damage from the front.

Or my quote from the same thread.



defekt also has a grand idea.

Edited by Dackstrus, November 28 2012 - 02:45 PM.

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#13 Alloycat

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Posted December 03 2012 - 10:42 AM

I posted some thoughts on this over in this thread.
http://community.pla...-official-poll/

I'm currently thinking something like this might work best.

View PostAlloycat, on December 03 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

Having played a lot more C-class over the last week or so, and given this a bit more thought I've come to a few conclusions. Most notably that the Brawlers turret mode is actually very useful. Not so much as a tool to use in combat, but as a slower repair (about half the speed - it's really pretty good) where you can still fire.


Pretty sure you've all come across the situation where you've retreated from a fight and found a 'safe' spot to repair only to have someone boost round the corner and blow you to pieces with a TOW? Using the Brawlers turret mode to repair (if I'm not totally sure I'm safe) has saved from this a hell of a lot recently. The damage reduction can help survive anything they do get off before you blow them away.


In light of this I'd like to see turret mode for all C-Class mechs changed to have the slow repair, making it actually useful, and given a small buff on top based on the mech type. My suggestions for these would be something like;
  • Grenadier - Repair + VERY small radar signature when turreted (and maybe more detection range too?). - allows bombardment/sniping from concealed locations more safely.
  • Rocketeer - Repair + Increased damage. - good for shooting things with rockets.
  • Brawler - Repair + Allow it to dodge and quick 180, but at VERY high fuel cost (say, 55% for dodge, 27% for 180 turn?) - allows it to function as a 'line breaker' by entering/exiting choke points faster.

What do you think?

Edit: Also, the HUD really needs to display map objective information (fuel/battlship/flags ect) when in turret mode.

Edited by Alloycat, December 03 2012 - 11:36 AM.


#14 Eviltrick

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Posted December 03 2012 - 12:45 PM

IF the game someday makes it to e-sport, and high lvl gamers are competing, then i think the ability can come to use, its excelent for creating an epicenter for an ambush! Yes it might die fast, but then your team can destroy the other team in no time, because of your newly won strike of opportunity!

Just a thought ^^

#15 Beemann

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Posted December 03 2012 - 12:49 PM

View PostEviltrick, on December 03 2012 - 12:45 PM, said:

IF the game someday makes it to e-sport, and high lvl gamers are competing, then i think the ability can come to use, its excelent for creating an epicenter for an ambush! Yes it might die fast, but then your team can destroy the other team in no time, because of your newly won strike of opportunity!

Just a thought ^^
The time spent going into turret mode could have been better used shooting at or finding/closing distance on the enemy
The time spent IN turret mode could have been used to dodge and mitigate damage
If you're doing long range bombardment, turret mode is bad if you ever need to reposition (which you will)
If you're doing CQC fights or point defence, turret mode is bad because you can't push the attackers when they get low. They get that extra time you spend coming out of turret mode to escape or heal up
'Nade users also don't need LOS to hit you
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#16 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted December 03 2012 - 03:18 PM

Not to mention you become the perfect target.
When you have a team of organized player communicating, even turret mode's extra defense won't keep you from dying fast to focused fire.

Edited by AsianJoyKiller, December 03 2012 - 03:19 PM.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

The Sinful Infil HEAT Cannon Hustler, Cloaking and Smoking, C-Class Swagger, Ballin' n' Brawlin'


#17 Spliff_Craven

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Posted December 03 2012 - 05:07 PM

Shouldn't turret be a "fortified" position?

A turret shouldn't be easily taken down {ie: that's the whole point}. at the same token it shouldn't be highly mobile while deployed either.

#18 Beemann

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Posted December 03 2012 - 05:21 PM

View PostSpliff_Craven, on December 03 2012 - 05:07 PM, said:

Shouldn't turret be a "fortified" position?

A turret shouldn't be easily taken down {ie: that's the whole point}. at the same token it shouldn't be highly mobile while deployed either.
Sure, but that's precisely what makes turret mode bad, particularly for Brawlers
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#19 Deu

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Posted December 03 2012 - 05:31 PM

I've shared this idea a few times but I really think it'd be cool to allow a forward dash, not boosting, like a head butt that causes damage and moves the enemy mech with you. This would be amazing crowd control under AA and give the thing a damn use. It'd work perfectly since the booster engines are still facing the correct way seen here. Posted Image

Posted Image


#20 Spliff_Craven

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Posted December 03 2012 - 10:36 PM

Anything would be an improvement to the most usless mode





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