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Mobility Tree Health Optimization


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#1 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted November 20 2012 - 06:28 PM

So yeah, decided to spec into the health skill in the mobility tree.
And you know what it have me?

8 health.
That's right. I went from 820 (Grenadier) to 828 health.

That's when I realized, each slot on that skill gives a .3% boost, for a total of .9%

Look, I know vertical progression is bad and all that, but if your going to make something useless, just remove it all together. Because a less than 1% buff is absolutely useless.

Alternatively, this is a bug and someone screwed up on a decimal point.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

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#2 Skrill

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Posted November 20 2012 - 06:38 PM

yeah kinda wack dude i hope they live up to their word (they have time and again) and give us true horizontal progression for example see firefall tech tree Posted Image
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View PostAsianJoyKiller, on July 08 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

You're exactly right.

#3 Skrill

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Posted November 20 2012 - 06:40 PM

granted at higher levels you do get a slightly better weapon but its never really that noticable and the higher up ones really just have a different variation on the basic gun
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View PostAsianJoyKiller, on July 08 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

You're exactly right.

#4 KaszaWspraju

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Posted November 20 2012 - 06:44 PM

The only thing that pays fairly well is Reinforced Armar (+5% HP and receive a two percent more damage) , buy only in C-Class mech. They exaggerated a little with nerf. : D

Edited by KaszaWspraju, November 20 2012 - 06:46 PM.

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#5 Beemann

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Posted November 20 2012 - 07:54 PM

Even if Red5 re-sorted the skill trees Firefall would still be distinctly vertical. The problem is that there's no even trade-offs in the trees. Either the cost is next to nothing for what you get out of it, or it's so obscene that there's no point in using it
Either the optimization tree needs to be available from the start, or it needs to have an actual trade-off (not being able to get a different bonus is not a trade-off if you can have a higher number of bonuses than someone else anyway)
Otherwise it's not going to really work for anyone. People are going to complain that they're being put in matches against higher geared players, and those who actually want to make a difference in the handling of their mech will be disappointed with the impact (or lack thereof) their decisions make

Also the announced changes to progression in Hawken sound pretty damned good to me. I can't wait to see what the end result is

Edited by Beemann, November 20 2012 - 07:55 PM.

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#6 Toryne

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Posted November 21 2012 - 01:06 AM

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on November 20 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

So yeah, decided to spec into the health skill in the mobility tree.
And you know what it have me?

8 health.
That's right. I went from 820 (Grenadier) to 828 health.

That's when I realized, each slot on that skill gives a .3% boost, for a total of .9%

Look, I know vertical progression is bad and all that, but if your going to make something useless, just remove it all together. Because a less than 1% buff is absolutely useless.

Alternatively, this is a bug and someone screwed up on a decimal point.

THIS! Cannot agree more THIS!

#7 defekt

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Posted November 21 2012 - 06:47 AM

I think this is nothing but a storm in a teacup.  I'm not defending the current Optimization tree, I abhor vertical upgrade stacks with a passion and have made no secret of it within these multifarious fora, but we have already been informed that the progression system as a whole is being radically overhauled.  (Not just overhauled but also might even feature some stuff I've been vocal about before, which is not just cool it's also pant-wettingly cool: http://community.pla...ame/#entry92721)  I'm not saying don't point out stuff that looks wrong but also bare in mind that this is potentially only a placeholder for things to come.

That said, I agree with the OP's sentiment: if something is designed to be insignificant then the game loses nothing (and in many regards even gains) by not having that something at all.

Edited by defekt, November 21 2012 - 06:48 AM.


#8 Crimson_Corsair

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Posted November 21 2012 - 07:50 AM

I had a strange vision, where the optimization tree was available to all. All 25 points were given at the beginning. It was fun, you could make a difference to your mech, but all were equal.
But alas, it was just a dream.

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#9 FluxX

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Posted November 21 2012 - 09:48 AM

View PostCrimson_Corsair, on November 21 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

I had a strange vision, where the optimization tree was available to all. All 25 points were given at the beginning. It was fun, you could make a difference to your mech, but all were equal.
But alas, it was just a dream.
This. But I understand that the teams want to make the game viable economically. :P
So how about a mid way meet? Give each player 25 points, but "lock" those points into the skill tree as default. Based on either being generous (give scouts speed boosts, assaults damage and Class C defense) or being "average" by giving all new mechs even points in each tree.
Then with the level unlocks, you can move a point or 3 each unlock. Or move up to unlock all the points for customization.

That way everyone gets a "buff" but only high levels or paying customers get to choose the buffs. :)

#10 DarkPulse

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Posted November 21 2012 - 10:58 AM

I think, as Saunders said, they ran the "L20s were too powerful" bit of it.

And exactly as he predicted, we now have upgrades that are barely upgrades at all. :P

They definitely need to be somewhat higher at a minimum. I think most people were fine with them as they were (in most aspects; i.e; tune them so that the rough amount of armor given extra was "equal" for all classes compared to base HP instead of a flat number, for example) or else a slight downtune from that, but this is pretty much hack-and-slash razing of them.
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#11 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted November 21 2012 - 11:08 AM

I've spent more time looking through the tree's and I've realized, there's a lot of <=1% buffs in there.
That's just absurd.

I know you guys are changing things up soon, and I know that vertical progression is bad.
But you know what?
Having over half the optimizations be completely useless is really, really stupid.
It makes playing right now a lot less fun.
Why bother customizing right now? It's not like it's really doing all that much for you.

Edited by AsianJoyKiller, November 21 2012 - 08:00 PM.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

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#12 Toryne

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Posted November 21 2012 - 11:34 AM

The only thing thats actually increasing anything is purely regen/movement adjustments

#13 D3thpool

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Posted November 21 2012 - 01:08 PM

View PostCrimson_Corsair, on November 21 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

I had a strange vision, where the optimization tree was available to all. All 25 points were given at the beginning. It was fun, you could make a difference to your mech, but all were equal.
But alas, it was just a dream.

if it only was reality
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#14 Titzilla

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Posted November 21 2012 - 03:48 PM

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on November 21 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

I've spent more time looking through the tree's and I've realized, there's a lot of >=1% buffs in there.
That's just absurd.

I do think you mean <=1%
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#15 Rooslin

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Posted November 21 2012 - 04:53 PM

the optimization tree is un-noticeable

the internals are harsh and atm I'm not using any since you buy a 3% weapons boost and lose 2% health then you go to the defensive internal and buy a 3 percent health boost and lose 2 percent on your weapons

in CB2 atleast you could notice the difference which is how it should be or why is it even in the game if you cant notice it

I'm having less fun in this closed beta then i did the last two i can say that for sure

Edited by Rooslin, November 21 2012 - 04:55 PM.


#16 Interrobang

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Posted November 21 2012 - 06:01 PM

View PostCrimson_Corsair, on November 21 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

I had a strange vision, where the optimization tree was available to all. All 25 points were given at the beginning. It was fun, you could make a difference to your mech, but all were equal.
But alas, it was just a dream.
Your dream sounds a lot like a time before Closed Beta. It was, like you said, a lot of fun while at the same time being equal. It also had a noticeable effect on the mechs so it actually mattered and became a hard decision to make. They've decided to have a progression system because they'll make more money off of it, which I really can't blame them.

Edited by Interrobang, November 21 2012 - 06:05 PM.


#17 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted November 21 2012 - 08:00 PM

View PostTitzilla, on November 21 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on November 21 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

I've spent more time looking through the tree's and I've realized, there's a lot of >=1% buffs in there.
That's just absurd.

I do think you mean <=1%
Oops. Yes I do.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

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#18 D20Face

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Posted November 21 2012 - 08:03 PM

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on November 21 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

I've spent more time looking through the tree's and I've realized, there's a lot of <=1% buffs in there.
That's just absurd.

I know you guys are changing things up soon, and I know that vertical progression is bad.
But you know what?
Having over half the optimizations be completely useless is really, really stupid.
It makes playing right now a lot less fun.
Why bother customizing right now? It's not like it's really doing all that much for you.
Maybe then need to keep the system there for code reasons but they just nerfed the hell out of it so it wouldn't detract from games.

#19 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted November 21 2012 - 08:05 PM

View PostD20Face, on November 21 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on November 21 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

I've spent more time looking through the tree's and I've realized, there's a lot of <=1% buffs in there.
That's just absurd.

I know you guys are changing things up soon, and I know that vertical progression is bad.
But you know what?
Having over half the optimizations be completely useless is really, really stupid.
It makes playing right now a lot less fun.
Why bother customizing right now? It's not like it's really doing all that much for you.
Maybe then need to keep the system there for code reasons but they just nerfed the hell out of it so it wouldn't detract from games.
Or maybe someone got a little to happy with the nerf bat.
Who knows?

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

The Sinful Infil HEAT Cannon Hustler, Cloaking and Smoking, C-Class Swagger, Ballin' n' Brawlin'


#20 D20Face

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Posted November 21 2012 - 08:10 PM

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on November 21 2012 - 08:05 PM, said:

Or maybe someone got a little to happy with the nerf bat.
Who knows?
My suggestion is far more likely.

They have an unfinished system and a system that is linked to values in the code with a UI built around it.
If they removed it they've have to make temp UI(something people this close to open beta wouldn't like) a temporary hacked in replacement for all the code bits they effected that wouldn't be used in a few days, and other temporary fuzzy bunny that'd make the game look ugly, likely be buggy, and in general piss people off.

No more NDA means no temp assets in most cases as they'd be broadcasting broken bits.

Instead they effectively remove a bad idea by nerfing it into oblivion till the replacement arrives.

Edited by D20Face, November 21 2012 - 08:11 PM.





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