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How to fix the G2 Raider


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#1 Mykinius

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Posted May 01 2014 - 05:20 PM

Yes, I know I'm jumping the gun, but I'm almost 100% certain that many of the complaints made about it so far are valid. Given that assumption, let's find ways to improve the G2 to a more playable and/or fun state! I'm aiming for a level of balance similar to that of the G2 Assault: fun/novel gameplay mixed with ok but certainly not the best stats/weapons.

First off: what makes the G2 feel unfun? By this, I don't mean "bad," per se. I mean aspects of the G2 that add insult to injury due to the needless frustration they cause.
  • Low walking speed: These flaws make the G2 unfun because its 2 weapons require close range. While its ability can be used to rapidly approach close range in some situations, actually maintaining that pressure is impossible with this sluggishness. Enemies who (after the first hit, or "alpha strike") instinctively flee behind the nearest piece of cover can easily escape because the G2 lacks any way to pursue. Furthermore, unlike the default Raider, its low walking speed means that corner play (peeping out of cover, shooting a Bolt/Mirv, and scooching back out of sight) is less viable: lower speeds mean more time before and after that "peeping out," and therefore more opportunity for enemies to hit with their own weapons.
  • Low boost speed: Traversing the map as a G2 takes obnoxiously long due to its inability to boost at a remotely respectable rate. It's neat that it has a huge fuel capacity, but that bonus is mostly wasted when consuming fuel seems so unhelpful due to slow boosting. Furthermore, since close-range classes such as this tend to be in the thick of battle more than long-range ones, they usually need some way to escape: G2 is unfortunate enough to lack the boost speed necessary for getting around a corner without being shredded first. To add insult to injury, some other classes simply walk faster than this boost.
  • Low HP: Other mechs with low HP for their weight class are able to offset it with other ways of not being killed: the technician can heal itself over time in combat, the scout can quickly flit away, and the predator can turn invisible or go down a path laden with mines. The G2, on the other hand, is overall so slow that its low HP for its size makes it one of the easiest targets in the game compared to any other class at full health.
  • Regressed Corsair stats: The huge delay between firing compared to the already long one of the default Corsair results in a significant, frustrating DPS loss (which in turn causes many deaths that could have been prevented with just ooone more Mirv). Some may at the very least enjoy the slightly higher damage over the default Corsair, but I view this as another flaw that ought to be fixed: alpha strikes with this, the charged bolt, and an item are just enough damage to one-hit kill a light mech, but kills that don't allow any reaction from the other player feel cheap on both ends. I don't feel particularly excited or accomplished having made the kill, and burst-down A-class just feels annoyed that he couldn't even react to the first shot.
  • Disappointing special ability: Not only is the G2's Blitz worse than the default one in every way except cooldown, but it also punishes the user by taking away their fuel when they need it most. From full capacity, it only lasts a few seconds, and during that time the G2 has to move in a (mostly) straight line to achieve its temporary high speed. Then, once the ability is over, the G2 becomes a sitting duck because it's out of fuel and fuel regenerates hella slow on this thing. Its most useful application (as far as I can tell) is to pop out from behind a corner and surprise enemies with an alpha strike... just like the normal Raider can do by simply dodging and boosting instead of expending its special ability. Plus, I've been told it reveals you on radar as though you were dashing. What? Why? (I need confirmation on that last part though.)
What can be done to make the class fun and/or viable?
  • Stats, raise them (see first 3 points from above). #increasingthespeeds in particular would make the G2 better at its intended role and make the low HP for its size justified.
  • Tweak the Corsair XT: This doesn't necessarily mean making it identical to the better default Corsair. Instead, you could differentiate it from the default Raider a bit! You could lock the Corsair into one of its 2 fire modes and buff that mode at the cost of its old versatility, for example. And/or, replace the primary weapon with another (rebalanced) Corsair XT like with the G2 Assault!
  • Replace the T-32 Bolt XT with a Reflak XT: Bear with me here. The G2 Raider has trouble getting in and staying in close range, so this change would make it a bit better at midrange due to the Reflak's tighter spread and better falloff compared to the Bolt. Plus, its ricochet capability is a goofy bonus, perfect for G2 mechs!
  • Alternative to previous point: Replace the T-32 Bolt XT with a Breacher XT. Decent but gimmicky like the reflak, complete with usefulness at different ranges!
  • Change Blitz: This could be done in lots of ways. The fuel consumption could be lowered or replace with a timer like most abilities. It could enhance the mech's running acceleration while active, making it feel less sluggish and allowing better evasion and corner play since turning wouldn't slow it down as much. Replace the fast walking speed with a significantly lower or even removed dodge cooldown to make it a slippery target in close combat. Hell, give its arms something to do and turn Blitz into a temporary turret mode advance like a charging rhino.
Of course, maybe I'm just butthurt from doing poorly with it, and you'd be justified with that suspicion. I think I raise some good arguments, though. If you feel like you're doing well with it, I strongly believe you'd be doing better as literally any other class.

TL;DR: Unlike the G2 Assault, the G2 Raider is bad AND isn't novel to play. Any brief enjoyment from it is garnered from "hur dur, I'm handicapping myself" rather than the G2A's "hur dur, I'm firing more boolit than anyone else."

Edited by Mykinius, May 01 2014 - 07:06 PM.


#2 IareDave

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Posted May 01 2014 - 05:29 PM

There's one simple solution: boost the hp. For a mech this slow it deserves an hp buff, other than that it is a rounded mech

#3 jrkong

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Posted May 01 2014 - 05:49 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Raider G2 have slower walk speed AND less armor then the Vanguard? Right now it seems like it's Brawler G2 and not Raider G2.

#4 Mykinius

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Posted May 01 2014 - 06:11 PM

View Postjrkong, on May 01 2014 - 05:49 PM, said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Raider G2 have slower walk speed AND less armor then the Vanguard? Right now it seems like it's Brawler G2 and not Raider G2.
Slower boost speed than Brawler, too, but without the TOW to compete at midrange or the hp to compete at CQC. It seems like a bizarre combination of Brawler and Raider that takes the worst parts of each.

Edited by Mykinius, May 01 2014 - 06:12 PM.


#5 Hijinks_The_Turtle

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Posted May 01 2014 - 06:26 PM

What I personally don't get is how fast the ability can eat up fuel.  I'd suggest for the ability to consume less fuel since it really doesn't last long.  Also, maybe the weapons should also be balanced more?  If it's gonna be a slow C-mech, at least let it have one medium range weapon (make the spread narrower for the XL Bolt and let it travel farther than it's brother).

#6 caduceus26

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Posted May 01 2014 - 06:45 PM

Just boosting the HP won't fix the weaknesses with this mech. When I played earlier today I had some reasonable success with the G2 Raider but I also was on a strong team and tbh the opposition was a little weak.  This evening as I've encountered stronger competition the flaws of  this mech become glaringly obvious:  It is too slow, the T32-Bolt is underwhelming, the MIRV reload time is atrocious, the armor is low (should be on par with Brawler), the fuel burn rate is ridiculous, and the ability is doo-doo! You will never outrun anyone with this mech as you'll run out of fuel before you can get up a good head of steam.

Mykinius has some interesting ideas on improving the mech. In addition to an armor buff, I think it needs a boost and weapons buff along with a decrease in the fuel burn rate.

Edited by caduceus26, May 04 2014 - 12:41 PM.

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#7 jrkong

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Posted May 01 2014 - 06:47 PM

Maybe if they increased the falloff range of the XL Bolt and changed it so it's charge attack also tightens the spread so it acts like a slug sort of like the Breacher? The HP and speed of the Raider G2 should be buffed if it's going to be remotely similar to the Raider though.

#8 Mykinius

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Posted May 01 2014 - 07:04 PM

View Postjrkong, on May 01 2014 - 06:47 PM, said:

Maybe if they increased the falloff range of the XL Bolt and changed it so it's charge attack also tightens the spread so it acts like a slug sort of like the Breacher? The HP and speed of the Raider G2 should be buffed if it's going to be remotely similar to the Raider though.
Oh man, a Breacher/Corsair combo would be really interesting. Also, what if the Corsair were replaced with a Breacher XT? The XT would be similar to the default version, but middle click would toggle spread/rail instead (since managing two click/hold weapons would be obnoxious).

#9 Dictatorfish

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Posted May 02 2014 - 06:57 AM

I would like to suggest the following: BUFF THE DAMAGE OUTPUT TO THE MOON!
  • Low walking speed? That's because of the sheer, enormous weight of the weapons!
  • Low boosting speed? You're lucky this guy can drag his arms at all!
  • Pathetically low armour? You would've be able to move at all if they added any more metal to what this beast is already carrying.
  • Terribly slow fire rate? Have you any idea how projectiles this thing has to reload per shot?
The ultimate heavy glass cannon.

Example: Here's me in my Scout, zipping through without a care in the world, caressing my foes with flak and TOW, skip round a corner and HOLYFUZZYBUNNYBLAMI'mdead.  Given the horrific stats and ability of the G2-Raider right now, I'd accept for them to pay that OTT heavy price for the ability to scare the living **** out of the lighter mechs with some insta-gib action.

#10 SoldierHobbes11

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Posted May 02 2014 - 09:07 PM

Since I don't have any first hand experience with piloting the mech, I can't  offer much of an opinion. However, think about it this way: we are testing the mech. Remember, we're still technically in a beta stage, so the devs are counting on us to test new stuff. It's much easier to release a mech that's not totally balanced yet to the community for testing and plus, we get our hands on the goodies sooner. In fact, by doing that, we have a hand in making the mech. Sure, the mech is not balanced as of yet, nor are many things when they are first released. Have some patience and give feedback. I doubt the G2 Raider is set in stone at the moment. I'm just glad that the mech was underpowered on release than overpowered. I'm sure we can all agree the overpowered is WAY more annoying than underpowered.
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#11 jrkong

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Posted May 03 2014 - 02:22 AM

Just got the G2 Raider and I've been playing it for a bit and Blitz G2 ain't that bad since it increases your run speed enough to feel like a dodge or to close the distance. It isn't completely perfect but I'd be happy if they just gave the G2 Raider a little more HP and maybe a bit more walk speed and it'll be perfect.

I noticed that Blitz G2 doesn't really increase the boost speed a lot and it kinda makes it redundant for the short time it's active.

Edited by jrkong, May 03 2014 - 03:31 AM.


#12 LoC_TR

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Posted May 03 2014 - 03:08 AM

The problem with the G2 Raider is the same as the previous 3.75 KLA Raider. You simply can not buy enough time for the KLA to recharge in open areas of the map. This forces the player into a defensive mode having to wait for the right opportunity to strike. I would like to see an increase in the minimum run speed and a larger fuel tank rather than an increase in health. I've had marginal success with the G2 Raider but I often find myself just waiting behind a corner for things to happen. It makes for rather boring play imo and encourages a defensive play style. Still needs more testing though, it may be were all using it wrong and it has some unseen potential.

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#13 jrkong

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Posted May 03 2014 - 03:34 AM

View PostLoC_TR, on May 03 2014 - 03:08 AM, said:

The problem with the G2 Raider is the same as the previous 3.75 KLA Raider. You simply can not buy enough time for the KLA to recharge in open areas of the map. This forces the player into a defensive mode having to wait for the right opportunity to strike. I would like to see an increase in the minimum run speed and a larger fuel tank rather than an increase in health. I've had marginal success with the G2 Raider but I often find myself just waiting behind a corner for things to happen. It makes for rather boring play imo and encourages a defensive play style. Still needs more testing though, it may be were all using it wrong and it has some unseen potential.
I'm succeeding with the G2 Raider but I'm losing on a lot of situations where I should be winning. If the enemy mech decides to high tail, by using Blitz G2 you've got a 2 second window to get the enemy or give up due to the fuel drain. Not only that, due to the low base walk speed you're completely vulnerable depending on where you end up. You can find some success if you play G2 like the Raider but you need to be a lot more careful with positioning.

#14 Mykinius

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Posted May 03 2014 - 03:55 PM

View Postjrkong, on May 03 2014 - 02:22 AM, said:

Just got the G2 Raider and I've been playing it for a bit and Blitz G2 ain't that bad since it increases your run speed enough to feel like a dodge or to close the distance. It isn't completely perfect but I'd be happy if they just gave the G2 Raider a little more HP and maybe a bit more walk speed and it'll be perfect.

I noticed that Blitz G2 doesn't really increase the boost speed a lot and it kinda makes it redundant for the short time it's active.
IMO, Blitz G2 should automatically turn off boost for its duration since boosting with it active is 100% useless (slower AND can't attack). As it is, it causes a sort of conflict if you're boosting forward and suddenly want to activate Blitz G2 without waiting for the boost's end's "decelerate" effect.

#15 Cloudstorm

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Posted May 03 2014 - 04:38 PM

This Mech is a joke, completely useless. The previous responses try to offer some solutions but fundamentally the weapon mix is wrong. Giving the option to use the Mini Flac might help.
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#16 Odinous

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Posted May 03 2014 - 04:44 PM

As the devs did with G2 Assault and mentioned that when they introduce us a new mech,they will not him OP or something,but will balance him after the feedback(As they did with 2 vulcans),so people be patient,hotfix will come..
Also after spending some hours with my G2 Raider,by no means this mech is useless,in maps with close combat his weapons are destructive,but this mech definitely needs some adjustments to his ability/fuel consumption

#17 jrkong

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Posted May 04 2014 - 06:42 PM

I think the best fix for the G2 Raider atm would be just removing the fuel drain on Blitz G2 and everything would be fixed. A big problem I always have is whenever I go on the offensive if I miss the 2 second window given to me by Blitz G2 which catches me up to the enemy I have no way to continue pursuing the enemy. If the ability didn't drain fuel the G2 Raider would be a much better at harassing, closing distances wouldn't be an impossibility and the low HP would be more then justified.

The alternative solution I would like to see would be a buff in HP and movement speed and changing the T32 Bolt XT so it has less falloff and acts like a Breacher when charged so it can nail fleeing mechs with a concentrated shot.

If playing G2 Raider didn't leave me so open, exposed and vulnerable if I mess up I'd main the G2 Raider. I love the concept and I've had some success on small maps like Wreckage but that's only because of the size of the map and even then I would have been far better off if I were using my Raider or Incinerator.

Edited by jrkong, May 04 2014 - 06:46 PM.


#18 PheonixSlayer

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Posted May 05 2014 - 06:57 PM

View PostMykinius, on May 01 2014 - 05:20 PM, said:

Yes, I know I'm jumping the gun, but I'm almost 100% certain that many of the complaints made about it so far are valid. Given that assumption, let's find ways to improve the G2 to a more playable and/or fun state! I'm aiming for a level of balance similar to that of the G2 Assault: fun/novel gameplay mixed with ok but certainly not the best stats/weapons.

First off: what makes the G2 feel unfun? By this, I don't mean "bad," per se. I mean aspects of the G2 that add insult to injury due to the needless frustration they cause.
  • Low walking speed: These flaws make the G2 unfun because its 2 weapons require close range. While its ability can be used to rapidly approach close range in some situations, actually maintaining that pressure is impossible with this sluggishness. Enemies who (after the first hit, or "alpha strike") instinctively flee behind the nearest piece of cover can easily escape because the G2 lacks any way to pursue. Furthermore, unlike the default Raider, its low walking speed means that corner play (peeping out of cover, shooting a Bolt/Mirv, and scooching back out of sight) is less viable: lower speeds mean more time before and after that "peeping out," and therefore more opportunity for enemies to hit with their own weapons.
  • Low boost speed: Traversing the map as a G2 takes obnoxiously long due to its inability to boost at a remotely respectable rate. It's neat that it has a huge fuel capacity, but that bonus is mostly wasted when consuming fuel seems so unhelpful due to slow boosting. Furthermore, since close-range classes such as this tend to be in the thick of battle more than long-range ones, they usually need some way to escape: G2 is unfortunate enough to lack the boost speed necessary for getting around a corner without being shredded first. To add insult to injury, some other classes simply walk faster than this boost.
  • Low HP: Other mechs with low HP for their weight class are able to offset it with other ways of not being killed: the technician can heal itself over time in combat, the scout can quickly flit away, and the predator can turn invisible or go down a path laden with mines. The G2, on the other hand, is overall so slow that its low HP for its size makes it one of the easiest targets in the game compared to any other class at full health.
  • Regressed Corsair stats: The huge delay between firing compared to the already long one of the default Corsair results in a significant, frustrating DPS loss (which in turn causes many deaths that could have been prevented with just ooone more Mirv). Some may at the very least enjoy the slightly higher damage over the default Corsair, but I view this as another flaw that ought to be fixed: alpha strikes with this, the charged bolt, and an item are just enough damage to one-hit kill a light mech, but kills that don't allow any reaction from the other player feel cheap on both ends. I don't feel particularly excited or accomplished having made the kill, and burst-down A-class just feels annoyed that he couldn't even react to the first shot.
  • Disappointing special ability: Not only is the G2's Blitz worse than the default one in every way except cooldown, but it also punishes the user by taking away their fuel when they need it most. From full capacity, it only lasts a few seconds, and during that time the G2 has to move in a (mostly) straight line to achieve its temporary high speed. Then, once the ability is over, the G2 becomes a sitting duck because it's out of fuel and fuel regenerates hella slow on this thing. Its most useful application (as far as I can tell) is to pop out from behind a corner and surprise enemies with an alpha strike... just like the normal Raider can do by simply dodging and boosting instead of expending its special ability. Plus, I've been told it reveals you on radar as though you were dashing. What? Why? (I need confirmation on that last part though.)
What can be done to make the class fun and/or viable?
  • Stats, raise them (see first 3 points from above). #increasingthespeeds in particular would make the G2 better at its intended role and make the low HP for its size justified.
  • Tweak the Corsair XT: This doesn't necessarily mean making it identical to the better default Corsair. Instead, you could differentiate it from the default Raider a bit! You could lock the Corsair into one of its 2 fire modes and buff that mode at the cost of its old versatility, for example. And/or, replace the primary weapon with another (rebalanced) Corsair XT like with the G2 Assault!
  • Replace the T-32 Bolt XT with a Reflak XT: Bear with me here. The G2 Raider has trouble getting in and staying in close range, so this change would make it a bit better at midrange due to the Reflak's tighter spread and better falloff compared to the Bolt. Plus, its ricochet capability is a goofy bonus, perfect for G2 mechs!
  • Alternative to previous point: Replace the T-32 Bolt XT with a Breacher XT. Decent but gimmicky like the reflak, complete with usefulness at different ranges!
  • Change Blitz: This could be done in lots of ways. The fuel consumption could be lowered or replace with a timer like most abilities. It could enhance the mech's running acceleration while active, making it feel less sluggish and allowing better evasion and corner play since turning wouldn't slow it down as much. Replace the fast walking speed with a significantly lower or even removed dodge cooldown to make it a slippery target in close combat. Hell, give its arms something to do and turn Blitz into a temporary turret mode advance like a charging rhino.
Of course, maybe I'm just butthurt from doing poorly with it, and you'd be justified with that suspicion. I think I raise some good arguments, though. If you feel like you're doing well with it, I strongly believe you'd be doing better as literally any other class.

TL;DR: Unlike the G2 Assault, the G2 Raider is bad AND isn't novel to play. Any brief enjoyment from it is garnered from "hur dur, I'm handicapping myself" rather than the G2A's "hur dur, I'm firing more boolit than anyone else."

I don't like people that make gross one liners in the forums.... but.... this mech's ability sucks.  Nothing like the old ability, and is there even a boost to his speed?  I've tried it over and over again, and all I get is an empty tank and I move like 1 m/s faster than my usual run.  I can't fire while shooting, isn't that the point of blitz?  I hate slaving away for 10 hours to make 12860 HC and then feel like it was a waste because what should have been a fun mech was terrible.  This man, listen to him please.

#19 Dalek0Ka

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Posted May 06 2014 - 12:34 PM

I agree with most of the posts on the fact that the speed performance of the G2 Raiders are not correct for the role, but I would like to know if you have tried using "evasive device" is "power surge" to think with the low speed and "fuel converter" for the fuel?
Honestly, I have not yet tried this solution because I think the true defect is poor reliability of the T-32 bolt XT, because too often I happened to not be able to pull the latest blow to its low accuracy.

#20 jrkong

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Posted May 06 2014 - 12:50 PM

View PostDalek0Ka, on May 06 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

I agree with most of the posts on the fact that the speed performance of the G2 Raiders are not correct for the role, but I would like to know if you have tried using "evasive device" is "power surge" to think with the low speed and "fuel converter" for the fuel?
Honestly, I have not yet tried this solution because I think the true defect is poor reliability of the T-32 bolt XT, because too often I happened to not be able to pull the latest blow to its low accuracy.
I run power surger+evasive device. It's not enough to help me survive on the battlefield. Using fuel converter is a tad counter intuitive for me since you don't take as many hits when you blitz g2 and it'll probably get you maybe half a second's worth of fuel at most. The problem with the G2 is it needs to be up close and personal to make use of all it's weapons but half the time you need blitz g2 just to get into that range and if the enemy retreats it's almost guaranteed you'll never catch him.




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