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[Poll] - Fair that an A class mech can be "1 Shotted" via alpha strike in Hawken?


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Poll: Fair that an A class mech can be "1 Shotted" via alpha strike in Hawken? (118 member(s) have cast votes)

Are "1 shot" kill alpha strikes on A mechs balanced?

  1. Please Read The OP Before Voting - Yes (66 votes [55.93%])

    Percentage of vote: 55.93%

  2. Please Read The OP Before Voting - No (44 votes [37.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 37.29%

  3. Please Read The OP Before Voting - Not sure. (6 votes [5.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.08%

  4. Other - Clarify With A Reply. (2 votes [1.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.69%

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#1 RentAKnight

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Posted March 14 2013 - 02:05 PM

A lot of the balance discussion about weapon bursting for too much damage revolves around the fact that particular weapon combinations have the potential for alpha strikes that will 1 shot an A mech.

An alpha strike is delivering all of your damage at once, typically firing your primary, your secondary, and using your item all at the same time.

The most egregious combinations are:

EOC + secondary + detonator
primary + corsair-MIRV + detonator
Slug + Sabot + detonator

In my opinion landing such alphas is quite difficult and there is a high risk / reward associated with using the weapon combinations that have the highest damage potential.  In other words it's not easy to do.

Some players feel that having such high risk / reward weapons is not good for gameplay. That for any given combination there should not even BE the potential (regardless of difficulty or associated risk) to 1 shot an A mech with an alpha strike.

It is my observation that the developers intend there to be 1 shot alpha strikes as the weapon damage potential has been there since alpha stages of the game up to this point. (players have pointed out that while possible such occurrence was rare before open beta).

My experience is that if you ever 1 shot a player of equal skill with an alpha strike you had to do something outstanding because it is simply difficult to do.  The reward of getting yourself into a position where it's even possible let alone pulling it off means you earned the 1 shot alpha strike.

I'd like to get the communities thoughts on the matter.  I am sure many people have delivered 1 shot alphas as well have been on the receiving end of 1 shot alphas.

Do large damage alpha strikes have a place in Hawken, even if it means 1 shotting A mechs?

Edited by RentAKnight, March 14 2013 - 08:57 PM.

Inactive.

#2 TwiceDead

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Posted March 14 2013 - 02:07 PM

... Why would you be so immobile to get hit by an Alphastrike?
I mean, you're an A-Class. A quick little midget with a small hitbox and a short boost cooldown.

Edited by TwiceDead, March 14 2013 - 02:07 PM.

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#3 chrissphinx

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Posted March 14 2013 - 02:08 PM

leave the split second firefights to CoD, please

#4 draco7891

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Posted March 14 2013 - 02:15 PM

Yes.

The overarching problem here seems to be "+ detonator". Being able to tack on a heat-free TOW missile to every alpha combo is game-changing/game breaking. The dynamic of combat prior to the Detonator was far superior to the current iteration. Det needs a mechanics rework, not just a simple damage nerf.

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#5 chrissphinx

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Posted March 14 2013 - 02:18 PM

the hell did you vote "yes" for then???

#6 Skylead

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Posted March 14 2013 - 02:23 PM

I mean that's kind of the whole point of dmg items...you get them for burst damage potential. If I can use radar to set up a trap, emp to cc an area or use the repair spark to win a fight I don't see why those taking HE or Det. shouldn't be able to kill a person quickly.

#7 draco7891

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Posted March 14 2013 - 02:34 PM

View Postchrissphinx, on March 14 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

the hell did you vote "yes" for then???

Just to confuse you. :P

There are other combinations that take substantially more skill/luck/timing to pull off. Plus, A-classes should learn the fine art of "Don't-Get-Hit-no-jutsu", aka the "Bob-n-Weave", aka "Dancing Queen".

A-classes have full access to C-class weapons, the fastest run and boost speeds, the lowest fuel usage and the shortest dodge cooldown. Their disadvantage is that if they don't play smart, overextend themselves or are otherwise tactically unsound, they go squish in a hurry. High-risk, high-reward.

Draco

#8 Frouste

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Posted March 14 2013 - 02:43 PM

Undecided, but I am against one-shot kills (in general) if they're easy to pull off.

Detonator is essentially a pocket TOW, and should be less powerful than the TOW missiles themselves.

The "Alpha Strikes" are something I'd never be able to pull off as I can only maneuver the sharpy and the reaper, and my aim with the weapons on each is terrible overall.  Now that I know what to look out for, I can counter the strikes if I see them coming.

Comparison (now that I think about it.)
A single Flintlock pistol and sword  <----->  Alpha Strike Combos
Making the pistol's shot count is paramount to the flintlock/sword combo.
If the fighter misses the shot, he would have a fight or more people to contend with.
The flintlock is difficult to reload, so once fired, the fighter falls back to the use of his blade.
Once he wins/escapes that fight, he can reload so that he may use the pistol in another skirmish.

Edited by Frouste, March 14 2013 - 02:47 PM.

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#9 Guiotine

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Posted March 14 2013 - 02:56 PM

I was under the impression A-classes were supposed to be squishy in exchange for more speed. I say, let them be squished.

ReachH said:

I dub thee, Guiotine, 'Coloxxen, the mech pokemon'

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on July 02 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

This wall of text gets the AJK Seal of Approval.

#10 DeVact

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Posted March 14 2013 - 03:00 PM

I guess it's just the overall fear of the TTK being too low. Alpha strikes are part of that problem. It's in the devs hands to balance the game more towards tactics or twitch skill but the cry for more tactics is very loud right now...

Edited by DeVact, March 14 2013 - 03:01 PM.

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#11 BlackCephie

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Posted March 14 2013 - 03:27 PM

Well I definitely think the detonator could use a damage nerf. I don't think the MIRV should be nerfed as I think its range is pretty short, and its very easy to miss with, even being a hair off center mass. If they nerf it, id hope it would just be a slight damage reduction.

I don't think that low TTK is a good thing. I like prolonged firefights. They are engaging, and make for interesting chess-like strategies. To be honest, id like to see all damage on all weapons scaled down proportionately to create a higher TTK overall.
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#12 Frouste

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Posted March 14 2013 - 03:35 PM

View PostDeVact, on March 14 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

I guess it's just the overall fear of the TTK being too low. Alpha strikes are part of that problem. It's in the devs hands to balance the game more towards tactics or twitch skill but the cry for more tactics is very loud right now...

Team tactics require skill to be effective which leads to...

Personal Tactics...
Personal tactics are accumulated through experience.  Experience and skill build off of each other.  If power finds its way into a player's repertoire, they'll end up falling face-first when their power is yanked from them.  Too much time passes without a fix, the players become far too set in their ways, and are dependent.  Exploitation scenarios should be eliminated quickly to stem dependency upon said scenarios.  

Exhibit: Starcraft1 Zerg-rush!
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#13 xXHadronCutterXx

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Posted March 14 2013 - 03:40 PM

Am I only one that kinda preffers the HE over the Detonator?

Get your hard on.


#14 Pirits

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Posted March 14 2013 - 03:44 PM

I've never been alpha-struck before. Perhaps it's because I set my A-classes to live till they have the ability/weapon levels to stop caring, like a honey badger.

View PostxXHadroncutterXx, on March 14 2013 - 03:40 PM, said:

Am I only one that kinda preffers the HE over the Detonator?

I'll be sticking one to my infiltrator soon enough.
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#15 Dedhed

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Posted March 14 2013 - 03:47 PM

I prefer the HE as well. You can bounce it around corners and toss it downwards (*edit-as well as onto higher platforms) without revealing yourself.

Didn't know A-classes had shorter dodge cooldown...no wonder they're so difficult to hit with my Hellfires.

Edited by Dedhed, March 14 2013 - 03:48 PM.

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#16 Frouste

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Posted March 14 2013 - 03:52 PM

I prefer HE too.
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#17 SilentJacket

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Posted March 14 2013 - 03:55 PM

HEs never seem to blow up when I want them to...

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#18 Keyser Soze

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Posted March 14 2013 - 04:13 PM

View PostTwiceDead, on March 14 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

... Why would you be so immobile to get hit by an Alphastrike?
I mean, you're an A-Class. A quick little midget with a small hitbox and a short boost cooldown.

Exactly! If you get hit with one of these in an A class you need some work in the GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY area of your skill set.
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#19 _Caffeine_

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Posted March 14 2013 - 04:17 PM

The only times I can pull off a solid alpha is when I catch someone repairing when they thought they were safe, they were perched somewhere sniping when they thought it was safe, or they derp'd into a wall.,

So it was their fault.  Voted yes.

#20 Xuande

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Posted March 14 2013 - 04:27 PM

Thought nothing of this thread until an infiltrator in a MA match got me down to 10 HP several times (I was at full health) in my last game. It was extremely annoying.
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