HAWKEN servers are up and our latest minor update is live!
Forgot Password? SUPPORT REDEEM CODE

Jump to content


I thought we were going to avoid pay-to-win?


  • Please log in to reply
168 replies to this topic

#1 Raze

Raze

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 21 posts
  • LocationCentral US

Posted October 28 2012 - 03:03 PM

So, I log into the beta for the first time today...lo-and-behold, there's an option to acquire double exp and hawken points through meteor points.

http://hawkenhq.com/faq/#ptw

Quote

So will it be pay to win?

No! Adhesive Games will be following the example of games that successfully use the free-to-play model without unbalancing the game. In Hawken, many things available for purchase will be visual customizations and aesthetics. In most cases, weapon and armor upgrades that can be bought can also be earned through playing the game. More details on that in the future.

I thought this one was going to be different. I thought, finally, a competitive, free-to-play game where I'm not going to be dominated by the greatest weapon of all: daddy's credit card. I was going to spend so much money on customization, and now I'll probably have to spend it on these stupid boosts if I want to compete. What really pisses me off the most is that there are going to be players that are legitimately better than me who I'll be able to edge out simply because I'll be further along than him/her, even if we've played the same amount of time. That's not a win. Not in my book.

We'll see how it goes, but you guys may have killed any chance of legitimate competition concerning this game, especially when it comes to clan play, tournaments, etc, etc (unless, of course, you don't allow custom mechs, and that would be pretty lame as well).

I want this game to succeed. I've been pretty invested into it since the announcement trailer (bring back the original sounds!). EDIT: I took out Alpha 2 detals.

I just hope you don't fade away in half a year like the rest of 'em. When everyone starts leaving because they're getting dominated constantly, the kids spending all the money will get bored and find another game. We've all seen it happen before. You'll make a lot more money if everyone sticks around.

Regards

Edited by Raze, October 28 2012 - 03:10 PM.


#2 Applethief

Applethief

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 113 posts
  • LocationMiddle of, Nowhere; United States

Posted October 28 2012 - 03:05 PM

closed beta.
"does not reflect final product"

Edited by Applethief, October 28 2012 - 03:09 PM.

Posted Image

#3 Raze

Raze

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 21 posts
  • LocationCentral US

Posted October 28 2012 - 03:11 PM

Well,

View PostApplethief, on October 28 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

closed beta.
"does not reflect final product"

Well, it definitely seems as if they've made their decision on the matter. That's undeniable.

#4 Beefsweat

Beefsweat

    Advanced Member

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,845 posts
  • Locationsan diego, usa

Posted October 28 2012 - 04:24 PM

There is nothing that a player can buy that another player can't buy or earn in-game. Hawken is far from "pay to win".
Posted Image

#5 Raze

Raze

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 21 posts
  • LocationCentral US

Posted October 28 2012 - 05:05 PM

View PostBeefsweat, on October 28 2012 - 04:24 PM, said:

There is nothing that a player can buy that another player can't buy or earn in-game. Hawken is far from "pay to win".

...at exactly half the rate of other players that are using boosters every day. If two players both play for the same amount of time and have the same amount of skill, then guess who's going to come out on top every single time? The guy who paid to win.

Edited by Raze, October 28 2012 - 05:05 PM.


#6 Sinj

Sinj

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 65 posts
  • LocationStamford, CT USA

Posted October 28 2012 - 05:35 PM

Yea sure an XP boost sucks but you know what sucks more? a game that gets no funding and eventually dies, your free to play the game but that doesn't mean the game runs for free..
Posted Image

#7 Raze

Raze

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 21 posts
  • LocationCentral US

Posted October 28 2012 - 06:42 PM

View PostSinj, on October 28 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

Yea sure an XP boost sucks but you know what sucks more? a game that gets no funding and eventually dies, your free to play the game but that doesn't mean the game runs for free..

I'm well aware that games require revenue for servers and maintenance, more than you know...

There are plenty of other things already implemented to generate revenue for this game. There's even more ideas that could be implemented in place of the boosting. Maybe an entrance fee for official tournaments? Almost everyone wants in on that action. Or maybe charge a monthly fee for advanced stat tracking, heat maps, clan management, etc in the style of CoD Elite. Or maybe a long-term contest with an entry fee where a top percentage of players win some sort of prize. Just ANYTHING that exists outside of the realm of the core gameplay. If it's useful, involves competition, or makes my mech look awesome, I'll be more than happy to pay for it.

#8 XannyXan

XannyXan

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 2 posts

Posted October 28 2012 - 06:57 PM

View PostRaze, on October 28 2012 - 06:42 PM, said:

View PostSinj, on October 28 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

Yea sure an XP boost sucks but you know what sucks more? a game that gets no funding and eventually dies, your free to play the game but that doesn't mean the game runs for free..

I'm well aware that games require revenue for servers and maintenance, more than you know...

There are plenty of other things already implemented to generate revenue for this game. There's even more ideas that could be implemented in place of the boosting. Maybe an entrance fee for official tournaments? Almost everyone wants in on that action. Or maybe charge a monthly fee for advanced stat tracking, heat maps, clan management, etc in the style of CoD Elite. Or maybe a long-term contest with an entry fee where a top percentage of players win some sort of prize. Just ANYTHING that exists outside of the realm of the core gameplay. If it's useful, involves competition, or makes my mech look awesome, I'll be more than happy to pay for it.

XP Boost is not a "Play-To-Win" Feature.
Almost every game has some sort of Pay real money for XP Boost.
Getting higher levels faster doesn't make you better, it's the amount of time and skill you put into it.
If people wanna buy XP Boost let them do it, It's not game breaking, and it's not a big deal.
That's my input.

#9 Auxeus

Auxeus

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • LocationSYS:CORE01

Posted October 28 2012 - 09:03 PM

Pay-to-win is a model where provide special premium abilities that gain you an unfair advantage to beat other players out in the round. Where boosting xp only allow you to get exp faster. Like Xanny said, it doesn't makes you easier to win.

#10 HatterMadigan

HatterMadigan

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts

Posted October 28 2012 - 09:54 PM

As I understand, the XP boost is there to help you level up and gain abilities faster during the Beta than what you would during normal play.
This is to allow you to experience as much of the game as possible and find any flaws in the level-up system before it's pushed in to live.
The XP boost and HP boost wont be in live, they're only in now to make it easier to get the most out of it during a weekend.

#11 TheMadness

TheMadness

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 30 posts

Posted October 28 2012 - 09:58 PM

View PostHatterMadigan, on October 28 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

As I understand, the XP boost is there to help you level up and gain abilities faster during the Beta than what you would during normal play.
This is to allow you to experience as much of the game as possible and find any flaws in the level-up system before it's pushed in to live.
The XP boost and HP boost wont be in live, they're only in now to make it easier to get the most out of it during a weekend.

Eh, I'm not so sure. Like others have said, buying XP boosts is pretty commonplace in F2P games. I don't mind either way and I'm glad they're in for the beta, level 20 Berserker is a beautiful thing.
My love for you is like a truck
BERSERKER

#12 Korriban87

Korriban87

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 102 posts
  • LocationA galaxy far far away...

Posted October 28 2012 - 11:36 PM

View PostAuxeus, on October 28 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

Pay-to-win is a model where provide special premium abilities that gain you an unfair advantage to beat other players out in the round. Where boosting xp only allow you to get exp faster. Like Xanny said, it doesn't makes you easier to win.
+1

Double exp and meteor isn't a big advantage. It just let you reach the cap faster. Once you reached the cap.... well... what now? clap clap you reached lv 20. Now wait for the non-buyers to reach lvl 20.

#13 eat5

eat5

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 39 posts
  • LocationTexas

Posted October 28 2012 - 11:55 PM

they should charge 50$ for the game and then make new map packs for 15$ like big companies do, they got a big enough fan base. i personally dont play any game that has a money line attached to it or server fees, they can have dedicated servers and rent them out....
sig removed, not playing this game.....

#14 Roundlay

Roundlay

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 730 posts
  • LocationTokyo

Posted October 29 2012 - 12:22 AM

Yay for hyperbole.

#15 Drone

Drone

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 26 posts
  • LocationVancouver

Posted October 29 2012 - 01:01 AM

I have used no boosts, and I can say that it's easy to get max level on your favorite mech. I myself got level 20 on my C type in one evening. Maxing all of the mechs though is another matter. Likewise, buying your favorite items for your mech is easy, I myself already have all of my favorites. Buying all of the items though, again, is another matter. So you see, even if this is the system they keep, it's fine. It's just there for people who want to max all of their mechs and get every single item, or simply just to keep up with leveling because they don't have the time to put in.

You can't equip everything at the same time, and you cant swap items unless you leave the match and go to the garage. So I again stress that there is no big deal here.

Sooner or later everyone will end up with the same stats in everything, and to many of the free-players surprise, it probably won't be a whole lot sooner than when they get it, because most people who buy stuff have a lot more money than time, and even with a 2x boost still gain levels pretty darn slowly because they simply don't have the time to put in.
^Epic Sentence^

A real example of pay to win is an item for sale in the shop that directly gives you a boost to your pilot's characteristics such as weapon damage that is not available any other way.

Edited by Drone, October 29 2012 - 01:10 AM.

This platform is ready. Come at us...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted Image
www.blacksteelbrotherhood.enjin.com


#16 Korriban87

Korriban87

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 102 posts
  • LocationA galaxy far far away...

Posted October 29 2012 - 01:15 AM

View Posteat5, on October 28 2012 - 11:55 PM, said:

they should charge 50$ for the game and then make new map packs for 15$ like big companies do

N O .

That's the reason why most games suck nowadays. Why should I pay 50 bucks for a picece of the game ?
I pay, I get a full game... like it was in the sweet '90s. I'm going to pay something more if there is a REAL expansion (Like Baldur's gate + Throne of Baal... remember?) not just for maps or weapons... what am I ? A bank ?

Edited by Korriban87, October 29 2012 - 01:16 AM.


#17 systema

systema

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts

Posted October 29 2012 - 02:27 AM

i see OP has a different perspective on what PayToWin means compared to the actual term for the name

but yea I do slightly marginally agree with him... buying the items beforehand has a bit of P2W in it... BUT that still doesn't make it P2W, nor the xp boost nor anything within the game..


for example, look at BlackLight Retribution. That game is the perfect example of one that is not Pay2Win but has a few slight quite benign traits of P2W in it. Still, the game is not P2W and has balanced gameplay vs economy..... so far Hawken's good and isn't any of what you're accusing it to be. Seems to me you've had your butt kicked a few times and to stress that out you're making threads about the 'unfair' gameplay

#18 Elix

Elix

    Good Guy Elix

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,228 posts
  • LocationFred's cockpit

Posted October 29 2012 - 02:28 AM

View Posteat5, on October 28 2012 - 11:55 PM, said:

they should charge 50$ for the game and then make new map packs for 15$ like big companies do, they got a big enough fan base. i personally dont play any game that has a money line attached to it or server fees, they can have dedicated servers and rent them out....
If you want EA, you know where to find them.
HAWKEN Community Values (updated!)

ETA for $feature_you_want to be added to Hawken Open Beta: Imminent™
See someone breaking the rules? Don't reply, just hit Report. I am a player, not staff.
Drinking game: Check the daily stats. If I'm not the top, DRINK! (I'm joking!)

#19 CakeBandit

CakeBandit

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 168 posts
  • LocationSears, shopping for mech chassis.

Posted October 29 2012 - 09:49 AM

View Posteat5, on October 28 2012 - 11:55 PM, said:

they should charge 50$ for the game and then make new map packs for 15$ like big companies do, they got a big enough fan base. i personally dont play any game that has a money line attached to it or server fees, they can have dedicated servers and rent them out....

Oh holy fuzzy bunny no. No. No. No. No. No.

Everyone needs to not buy map packs. Ever. Jesus christ no. That is a trend of terrible gouging. It splits your playerbase and provides no content of significant value. Now please take your console marketing ideas elsewhere. Preferably to an incinerator.

I'm not dropping $50 on a game that I haven't tried from a small developer that nobody has ever heard of. And we all know that magazine reviews cannot be trusted. These are things that are going the way of the dinosaur for very good reasons. And no, demos are not a good gap-fill.
Posted Image

#20 Prodygy

Prodygy

    Dev Killer

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts
  • LocationIllal

Posted October 29 2012 - 12:26 PM

IMHO, a player's skill is far more important than his/her loadout, abilities, and items. Just purchasing $20 worth of XP boosts won't magically make you the best player in all of Hawken in a weekend.

Hawken will always be a free-to-play game, accordingly to the ideology they have so carefully crafted thus far. I wouldn't expect that to change in a million years.

And lastly, there are other games that do XP boosts and the like. League of Legends comes to my mind, which I imagine was of the main impetuses behind that decision.
"Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put." - Winston Churchill




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users