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Turret mode on heavys


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#1 Phaaze

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Posted November 20 2012 - 07:01 PM

I think they need a bit of work because as it stands most of the time you are much better off staying in normal mode.  even in combat dodging avoids waaay more then 65% of incomming damage.  in turret mode you will get hit with everything because you cant really move or dodge so there needs to be something that offsets that and the 65% less damage helps but not enough to want to stay that way for combat (aside from artillary turret and even then only if you are using stuff long range/not getting attacked) because if in combat 9/10 times i would much rather be able to dodge/run away then have 65% less damage.  from the other point of view its much easyer to kill a heavy in turret mode then a heavy that can dodge...

#2 Deu

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Posted November 20 2012 - 07:14 PM

I'm just going to say what needs to be said. The turret mode has no use whatsoever. I would add different abilities like a dash forward that does damage. Let them boost forwards in short little burst that can cause crowd control damage but not allow side to side dashing. Draw back is the forward dash is now on the cool down of the side dash.

Edited by Deu, November 21 2012 - 08:05 AM.

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#3 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted November 20 2012 - 08:09 PM

View PostDeu, on November 20 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

I'm just going to say what needs to be said. The turret mode has no use whatsoever.
Rocketeer's mobility turret mode is barely any more mobile than the Grenadier's Artillery turret mode.
I mean, I can't even tell the difference.

Grenadier's mode, I do notice the buff to my damage, but it's still not worth the lack of mobility.

Turret mode is still bad.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

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#4 Saunders

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Posted November 20 2012 - 08:16 PM

Take one of those bad boys on top of the AA (or inside of it), and go into turret mode and see how much longer you last.  That AA is yours.  Does that help?

If you still find it useless, what would you do to change it?
David Saunders | Game Designer on HAWKEN @ Adhesive Games

#5 Ace4225

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Posted November 20 2012 - 08:19 PM

scrap the healing ability and instead make it significantly more durable to damage. That seems like a better trade-off for mobility to me.

Then again, in tight quarters, that may not turn out so well.. [unless only the front receives extra durability]

Edited by Ace4225, November 20 2012 - 08:20 PM.

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#6 Ruzhyo

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Posted November 20 2012 - 08:31 PM

I in my infiltrator advanced on an enemy position behind a heavy in turret mode earlier today, and he made a magnificent shield against incoming damage. Together we were able to steamroll them. I haven't used the turret mode personally or had to shoot someone who was using it, but that one example seems like a decent enough reason to use the mode.

What it really made me yearn for was to have some kind of repairing weapon or tool, so that I could just hunker down behind him and heal him up while he soaked the damage. Would have been awesome!

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#7 Ace4225

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Posted November 20 2012 - 08:37 PM

it also would've made the turret mode OP...

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#8 Ruzhyo

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Posted November 20 2012 - 08:46 PM

View PostAce4225, on November 20 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

it also would've made the turret mode OP...
Oh completely! lol.

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#9 Dreizehn

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Posted November 20 2012 - 09:23 PM

I'd make it something more like a shield mode perhaps. No reduction to movement, but disable dashing/jumping and significantly reduce damage from the front. It'll give it significant utility in tunnels and narrow passages, but be weak to flanking. Then maybe the Brawler can actually do its job, be that fatty pushing inwards with its close quarters weapons.

#10 RudaForce

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Posted November 20 2012 - 09:30 PM

View PostDreizehn, on November 20 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

I'd make it something more like a shield mode perhaps. No reduction to movement, but disable dashing/jumping and significantly reduce damage from the front. It'll give it significant utility in tunnels and narrow passages, but be weak to flanking. Then maybe the Brawler can actually do its job, be that fatty pushing inwards with its close quarters weapons.
I REALLY like this idea, you could have the 'wings' or whatever they're called come down in front of the mech to reduce damage from it's front half. It would remove a slight amount of view from the pilot on either side, but you would still have your radar, which is always handy.
(Of course, if you still do have your radar when in turret mode, ignore that post. I haven't used turret mode in quite a while and can't remember the details.)

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#11 Ace4225

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Posted November 20 2012 - 09:35 PM

View PostDreizehn, on November 20 2012 - 09:23 PM, said:

I'd make it something more like a shield mode perhaps. No reduction to movement, but disable dashing/jumping and significantly reduce damage from the front. It'll give it significant utility in tunnels and narrow passages, but be weak to flanking. Then maybe the Brawler can actually do its job, be that fatty pushing inwards with its close quarters weapons.

This. Only I don't have a problem with the current pilot view for turret mode.

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#12 Beemann

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Posted November 20 2012 - 10:02 PM

View PostSaunders, on November 20 2012 - 08:16 PM, said:

Take one of those bad boys on top of the AA (or inside of it), and go into turret mode and see how much longer you last.  That AA is yours.  Does that help?

If you still find it useless, what would you do to change it?
I eat those C class mechs for breakfast on my Infil
GL can indirect fire. What are you going to do about it?
The main issue is that you give up so much mobility. By doing so you're basically inflicting much more damage on yourself than you would without a defensive buff, simply because even really awful/awkwardly made shots will hit you
You also attract more fire, because people know you wont avoid anything, and as a result, though you may become a distraction for a few seconds, you're basically guaranteed to die unless your team can wipe out the enemy forces in a situation that can often leave them shorthanded (IE if the other team doesn't let you have LOS)
And once you die, it's a 5 on 6 fight anyway, and the team that doesn't have the turret mode C class will stomp your side into the ground due to the extra firepower that they didn't have to give up for a temporary distraction

It also hurts more CQC oriented setups, like the Flak Brawler, because you don't have the movement required for a CQC fight. You can't chase whatsoever (and chasing is already pretty awful on a C class, particularly with what appears to be random shotgun spread)

To be honest, I actually really like NotKJell's ability ideas

Edited by Beemann, November 20 2012 - 10:03 PM.

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#13 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted November 20 2012 - 10:09 PM

View PostSaunders, on November 20 2012 - 08:16 PM, said:

Take one of those bad boys on top of the AA (or inside of it), and go into turret mode and see how much longer you last.  That AA is yours.  Does that help?

If you still find it useless, what would you do to change it?
If I go up onto the AA, I am absolutely 100%, totally and completely guaranteed to take a fuzzton of damage if I sit about in turret mode. The damage mitigation that turret mode provides is far to little in comparison to being mobile. When you go into turret mode, the odds of dying increase drastically.
Anybody with a brain knows how to deal with a mech in turret mode, and can do so with extreme ease and effectiveness.

Now you may be thinking, "Well why doesn't he use it with a team?"
Well, because in pub matches, teamwork is lacking, and it just makes me a big 'ol target. In organized matches, I'm much more deadly and useful if I don't root myself and limit where I can go. After all, why fear turret-mode when it's so easy to run away from?
Also, what other abilities require the use of the team to be effective?
That's right, none.

You want to make turret mode better? We need mobility.
Mobility is king in Hawken, and if you don't want to buff the fuzzy bunny out of turrets mode's defense, then we need to be able to move at least as fast as the standard run.
We don't need to be able to dodge, fly or 180. Heck, even nerf the turnrate speed a bit if you feel like it.
But being unable to avoid even long range TOW missiles is terrible.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

The Sinful Infil HEAT Cannon Hustler, Cloaking and Smoking, C-Class Swagger, Ballin' n' Brawlin'


#14 FenixStryk

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Posted November 20 2012 - 10:42 PM

The only mechs that benefit from prioritizing defense over extra mobility are high-DPS, high-ROF builds that face-tank damage while chasing their prey (e.g. the old Vulcan/TOW B-Class). In almost every other scenario, moving faster and using cover is more important. A stationary target is, more often than not, a dead one. That's the game.

IMO, Turret Mode should be you slamming down to the ground nearly instantly with zero commitment, read:
  • no cooldown,
  • ~1.5s activation time,
  • zero delay deactivation time.
You should be encouraged to use that **** in every fight, every mode, all day every day because that's how it is for every other ability. If a C ever says to himself, "I can't get out of this bunker in time even though I want to," then the ability has failed.

Edited by FenixStryk, November 20 2012 - 10:42 PM.

It was fun while it lasted.


#15 Sicarius_X

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Posted November 21 2012 - 12:09 AM

I'm of the agreeing for normal move speed while in turret mode. It will be easy to lead, but at least won't be unable to dodge my anything ever. Fenix is right about you should want to use it in every fight. As a suggestion to how to make it better, give it a mobile radar station when in use, that at least will make you want to use it in a team fight. Gives your team the ability to see exactly what is comeing. But I only saying this because I am unsure of what changes to make.

#16 Dreizehn

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Posted November 21 2012 - 01:03 AM

Just to add another scratch on turret mode - its just asking for EMP. I saw a few guys holing up with in in a way that I thought would have been mildly threatening.... then I EMP-ed him and riddled him with holes and explosives.

#17 Phaaze

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Posted November 21 2012 - 04:47 AM

im just thinkning that if you are basicly immobile and will be hit with everything and cant chase anything you get to low armor make one of 2 things happen:

1: make reduced damge go up by 75-90% so you can accually brute force something instead of 65%

2: somehting i have yet to think of

#18 Phaaze

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Posted November 21 2012 - 04:50 AM

View PostSaunders, on November 20 2012 - 08:16 PM, said:

Take one of those bad boys on top of the AA (or inside of it), and go into turret mode and see how much longer you last.  That AA is yours.  Does that help?

If you still find it useless, what would you do to change it?

Realisticly it comes down to

dodge and chase down units > 65% reduc dmg + small bonus

#19 Spiderz

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Posted November 21 2012 - 06:24 AM

View PostSaunders, on November 20 2012 - 08:16 PM, said:

Take one of those bad boys on top of the AA (or inside of it), and go into turret mode and see how much longer you last.  That AA is yours.  Does that help?

If you still find it useless, what would you do to change it?

nah its honestly so useless, actually i was going to reply to this thread but my mates on TS found a good match and closed the window, ironically to find this thread again i searched for "useless"

but yeah i love my brawler i really do, its my favorite mech but then i look at the ability icons of the other classes and cringe, its not fair that we get nothing good at all, i literally never use it - its such a huge liability it gets you killed instantly, i know its useless because nobody has killed me or defended anything from me ever in turret mode and when we see somebody use it, everyone on teamspeak laughs and they blow up not soon after then somebody on channel says "he must be new" that's how bad it is, it needs a to be totally changed/reworked

What would i do to change it? maybe use it standing up with the arms acting as DPS absorbing riot shield that you can't use weapons with so players can make a tactical push forward

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#20 HugeGuts

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Posted November 21 2012 - 06:37 AM

You can't buff the damage absorption much more, or else heavies will be nearly impossible to destroy once the repair torch comes out. Turret mode needs to move faster.




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