HAWKEN servers are up and our latest minor update is live!
Forgot Password? SUPPORT REDEEM CODE

Jump to content


Let's ditch the "enemy health" bar?

Announcement Beta Community Exclusive

  • Please log in to reply
25 replies to this topic

#1 GatNic3

GatNic3

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 48 posts
  • LocationEarth

Posted November 13 2012 - 12:23 PM

Pondering on whether or not to come out with this idea, but I think we need it.  The main reason is that the health displayed influences battle tactics and decision making especially in DM situations.  Can't count how many times some1 ran up[I r guilty too :P] and popped one in a mech for some ez frag.  And it was because the health bar displaying 3 bars or less from across the map  for everyone to hone in on & baiting immediate intervention.  Yea, the strategy and combat takes on a whole new dynamic if the HP aren't displayed.  Yet let the teammates see each other's HP and Heat[a small bar under the current HP bar].  Allows for prompting of which allies need assistance and which are rdy for engagements.
-The Oracle: AMD FX-8350 @4.4Ghz 1.404v
  12GB DDr3 1600 8-8-8-25-34 1T/890FX SB/2x RADEON HD5770
  Win 7x64 SP1/WD Raptor 150GB SATA HDD/1.5TB 7200rpm SATA HDD  
  Logitech Gaming Class M/KB

#2 Elix

Elix

    Good Guy Elix

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,228 posts
  • LocationFred's cockpit

Posted November 13 2012 - 12:27 PM

I could see this working for certain variant game modes, but in general, I personally like how it's set up now. You are piloting a mech, after all.
HAWKEN Community Values (updated!)

ETA for $feature_you_want to be added to Hawken Open Beta: Imminent™
See someone breaking the rules? Don't reply, just hit Report. I am a player, not staff.
Drinking game: Check the daily stats. If I'm not the top, DRINK! (I'm joking!)

#3 GatNic3

GatNic3

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 48 posts
  • LocationEarth

Posted November 13 2012 - 12:37 PM

Right and agreed; so display other pertinent info that's feasibly obtainable through combat awareness. Knowing the enemy HP is like having access to their network undetected.  Highly unlikely that computers able to govern such machines lack antivirus :o
-The Oracle: AMD FX-8350 @4.4Ghz 1.404v
  12GB DDr3 1600 8-8-8-25-34 1T/890FX SB/2x RADEON HD5770
  Win 7x64 SP1/WD Raptor 150GB SATA HDD/1.5TB 7200rpm SATA HDD  
  Logitech Gaming Class M/KB

#4 Elix

Elix

    Good Guy Elix

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,228 posts
  • LocationFred's cockpit

Posted November 13 2012 - 12:43 PM

Not necessarily... you've got radar, right? If a mech is on fire from damage, chances are its structural integrity (or lack of) is easy to guess. And, besides, the "HP bar" is an abstraction for the game, since it is a measure of the mech's current HP compared to the total. It could simply be an estimation by your mech's computers in order to prioritize combat targets (and it just happens to be 100% accurate for the sake of the game).
HAWKEN Community Values (updated!)

ETA for $feature_you_want to be added to Hawken Open Beta: Imminent™
See someone breaking the rules? Don't reply, just hit Report. I am a player, not staff.
Drinking game: Check the daily stats. If I'm not the top, DRINK! (I'm joking!)

#5 GatNic3

GatNic3

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 48 posts
  • LocationEarth

Posted November 13 2012 - 12:46 PM

However, as it stands, it's an exact representation of the mech's health and a dead giveaway for targeting KS's.
  Ill agree that monitoring the machine's physicality is doable, yet there's only subtle instancing of this in-game not a lot to go by as of yet.

Edited by GatNic3, November 13 2012 - 12:49 PM.

-The Oracle: AMD FX-8350 @4.4Ghz 1.404v
  12GB DDr3 1600 8-8-8-25-34 1T/890FX SB/2x RADEON HD5770
  Win 7x64 SP1/WD Raptor 150GB SATA HDD/1.5TB 7200rpm SATA HDD  
  Logitech Gaming Class M/KB

#6 Elix

Elix

    Good Guy Elix

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,228 posts
  • LocationFred's cockpit

Posted November 13 2012 - 01:04 PM

Killstealing is pointless, because the exp granted is based on damage done, and exp is what actually ranks you on the scoreboard. It's a lot less of a problem than in most other FPSs.
HAWKEN Community Values (updated!)

ETA for $feature_you_want to be added to Hawken Open Beta: Imminent™
See someone breaking the rules? Don't reply, just hit Report. I am a player, not staff.
Drinking game: Check the daily stats. If I'm not the top, DRINK! (I'm joking!)

#7 GatNic3

GatNic3

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 48 posts
  • LocationEarth

Posted November 13 2012 - 01:10 PM

It's less about the KS and more about battle awareness and deciding, which ultimately, leads to inadvertent KS because the "lowest HP bar" is always priority in firefights.  That's in any game mode and when information and relaying it are key factors to victory, knowing only friendly health supports more team member awareness and less focus on trying to finish off an opponent when the fuzzy buzzy hit the fan.
-The Oracle: AMD FX-8350 @4.4Ghz 1.404v
  12GB DDr3 1600 8-8-8-25-34 1T/890FX SB/2x RADEON HD5770
  Win 7x64 SP1/WD Raptor 150GB SATA HDD/1.5TB 7200rpm SATA HDD  
  Logitech Gaming Class M/KB

#8 Conquistador

Conquistador

    Holy Roman Emperor

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,176 posts
  • LocationAt the back of the North Wind

Posted November 13 2012 - 01:38 PM

This only works if Mech have consistent HP. In fps games where this is true, the player's awareness of the definitive HP can be memorized based on class.

This breaks down in hawken where the same Mech class can have wildly differing HP based on internals and the skill tree chosen. Because heat conservation and reload management is so important, I want to estimate if I need to hit my opponent one more time with a secondary or if a primary weapon is sufficient. Removing the heath bar would relegate this to guesswork.

I vote no, not unless they remove armor-modifiers that alter maximum health points.

Edited by Conquistador, November 13 2012 - 01:38 PM.

Posted Image

#9 Zeshi

Zeshi

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 605 posts

Posted November 13 2012 - 01:58 PM

I would be fine with this if it was implemented in the future as a separate game mode, but i would still prefer being able to see health bars.
Posted Image

#10 RavenSol

RavenSol

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 36 posts

Posted November 14 2012 - 09:07 AM

Gota say i agree with Elix on this one.

#11 Frenotx

Frenotx

    Advanced Member

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 808 posts
  • LocationConway, AR

Posted November 14 2012 - 09:24 AM

I personally prefer things as they currently are, in the scope of this topic. The opportunities for increased amounts of strategy outweigh the possibility of "ks cheese".
Your friendly otter-fox hybrid abomination about town.

To pronounce my name correctly, just pretend the 't' isn't there. You can also think of it as "Freno - [sodacan opening sound]"

#12 ultraChronestos

ultraChronestos

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 18 posts
  • LocationIndiana, USA

Posted November 14 2012 - 12:01 PM

I'm fine with believing that the computers in war robots can use a variety of sci-fi sensors to accurately gauge how much more damage an enemy can take before blowing up. I think it's only fair, considering that it was a lot easier to tell what was going in in MechWarrior even without a health bar due to limbs falling off/'mechs limping.

#13 Ace4225

Ace4225

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 684 posts
  • LocationMission Control

Posted November 14 2012 - 09:41 PM

View PostultraChronestos, on November 14 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

I'm fine with believing that the computers in war robots can use a variety of sci-fi sensors to accurately gauge how much more damage an enemy can take before blowing up.

I was about to say the same thing...

you're in a mech. Mechs in this time could have scanning technology that breaks down an enemy visually and calculates the amount of damage they can take.

Since the damage in Hawken isn't zone-based like MechWarrior, we can't expect it to be TOO realistic.

Posted Image
US East    -Brawler   -Berserker   -Scout   -Assault
---->[ =./\.= ]<----


#14 RudaForce

RudaForce

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 225 posts
  • LocationBC Canada

Posted November 15 2012 - 08:00 PM

I don't have a whole lot to add here:
  1) Agree that it should stay how it is.
  2) You should be able to see your teammates heat to better gauge when to help and when to get into a better position for the next enemy.

Edited by RudaForce, November 15 2012 - 08:01 PM.

Posted Image

"I don't have a favourite quote."


#15 Coldrew

Coldrew

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 57 posts
  • LocationPortland, OR

Posted November 15 2012 - 08:55 PM

+1 leave it as is.
My only suggestion would be to have health display based of a visual or audio tell given off by the enemy player.
Quake does it through audio, and in most situations you can hear your opponent clearly.
BUT
There's already a fair hand of audio in Hawken and a visual tell wouldn't work very well. There's a reason you get red bounding boxes around enemies. So to remove that and replace it with something else would potentially detract from the art style.

All-in-all, I feel what they have now gets the job done. Something different would be fun to try playing with. But I won't QQ if it doesn't change any.
My other job is a wizard.
The high price of Pink and Black.

#16 Beemann

Beemann

    Sentient Wall-of-Text

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,974 posts
  • LocationVancouver, BC

Posted November 17 2012 - 07:31 PM

BTW it also provides some perks
I bait people into my teammates by running around with low health

Edited by Beemann, November 17 2012 - 07:32 PM.

Posted Image

C-Class Swagger
Ballin' and Brawlin'
Cloakin' and Smokin'

#17 SmaCkexe

SmaCkexe

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 273 posts
  • LocationKansas City, MO

Posted November 17 2012 - 10:37 PM

View PostGatNic3, on November 13 2012 - 12:23 PM, said:

Pondering on whether or not to come out with this idea, but I think we need it.  The main reason is that the health displayed influences battle tactics and decision making especially in DM situations.  Can't count how many times some1 ran up[I r guilty too :P] and popped one in a mech for some ez frag.  And it was because the health bar displaying 3 bars or less from across the map  for everyone to hone in on & baiting immediate intervention.  Yea, the strategy and combat takes on a whole new dynamic if the HP aren't displayed.  Yet let the teammates see each other's HP and Heat[a small bar under the current HP bar].  Allows for prompting of which allies need assistance and which are rdy for engagements.

You mean you are tired of getting picked off when you are in the middle fight by a mech who sees you fighting another mech?   That is all I got out of your post.

When Mech 1 sees Mech 2 fighting Mech 3 Mech 1 gets a double kill!

Edited by SmaCkexe, November 17 2012 - 10:39 PM.

Posted Image

#18 Subdivision

Subdivision

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 455 posts
  • LocationUK

Posted November 18 2012 - 03:17 AM

View PostBeemann, on November 17 2012 - 07:31 PM, said:

BTW it also provides some perks
I bait people into my teammates by running around with low health

Yes, its a tactical thing and as its been mentioned already, kill stealing is negated due to the facts that:

1. EXP is gained through damage dealt, not kills secured.
2. Securing a kill is good thing in any competitive situation.

If you're dying in deathmatch because someone else wanders into a fight and cleans it up, that's the nature of the game mode. No way around it really. Taking away health bars will just make it more random and tremendously confusing to measure how well you're doing. If you can't see what damage you are doing, its going to be really hard to even get a hit confirmation minus an exploding mech. I seriously hope deathmatch is not a priority for balancing game mechanics like this as there are far more team based modes with far more competitive and esports prospects that I feel should be focused on more. Not saying deathmatch should be broken but I guess a good player will know when to get out of trouble, even if it means not picking up a kill. Alternately, sticking around to get a kill can be fun, even if you get taken out shortly after. Swings and roundabouts really.

And honestly, please stop justifying things to make them more 'real'. The nature of this being a game and science fiction means essentially anything goes. It is much more important for things to fit the mechanics and ganeplay of the game.

Edited by Subdivision, November 18 2012 - 03:19 AM.

Posted Image


#19 DeFrank

DeFrank

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 9 posts

Posted November 20 2012 - 08:13 AM

View PostElix, on November 13 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

Killstealing is pointless, because the exp granted is based on damage done, and exp is what actually ranks you on the scoreboard. It's a lot less of a problem than in most other FPSs.

If I'm not mistaken there is a killstreak bonus is there not?

#20 Ace4225

Ace4225

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 684 posts
  • LocationMission Control

Posted November 20 2012 - 09:44 AM

killstreak bonus merely consists of extra XP gained per kill, if I'm not mistaken.

Posted Image
US East    -Brawler   -Berserker   -Scout   -Assault
---->[ =./\.= ]<----






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Announcement, Beta, Community, Exclusive

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users