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CA# > CB# > OB - Where Did It Go Wrong?


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#1 defekt

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Posted December 14 2012 - 08:18 AM

It's pretty clear to me now that this game will be all about rewarding progress with stacked buffs.  Such a shame.  Throughout the Alphas and the Closed Betas these concerns were raised by many and in some ways these concerns were placated by the occasional hint from the devs that a more horizontal progression approach would be adopted, i.e., reward progress with additional functionality rather than simple flat buffs, but instead we now see if anything a reinforcement of the bad old ways rather than any sign that a 'flatter' approach would be adopted.  I don't have enough time or frankly the inclination anymore to go over this old ground yet again, i.e., why vertical progression is a destructive force, but if anyone is interested in reading what has been said before about this then the various Closed Beta fora should be your first port of call (IIRC the meat and potatoes of the debate took place within the CB2 fora).

To cover a few game components...

The Ops tree is still merely a list of artificial, stacked buffs.  Laughably, many of them have been reduced in strength to such a degree (still CB3 values in the main) that they afford next to no benefit whatsoever, so the Ops tree even fails to exploit the very philosophy that the game as a whole seems to have now fully embraced: rewarding progress with stacked buffs.  If a buff has been rendered next to useless for the sake of balance then why is it still in there at all.  There is no coherent thinking behind this that I can uncover.
A Trick Missed:  The Ops tree could have been constructed using horizontal reward methodology in that everyone starts with a full set of points to allocate to a core set of available elements within each category (the middle elements in each tier for the sake of example), whilst still retaining points enough only to reach the bottom of any one category, and then unlock side branches from the Ops tree through experience (rather than giving out more points) so that pilots could then redistribute resources to suit a particular style of play as they see fit.
(http://community.pla...ee/#entry107034)

The Ops tree yet further reinforces the game's now obvious vertical progression approach by drip-feeding the unlocking, and therefore use of, alternate primary weapon, items and internals.  Not since CA2 (I think it was) has a lvl20 mech been so superior to a lvl0.  Setting aside the vertical progression argument for a moment, how anyone at Adhesive thinks that such an approach can work given the current MatchMaking system I really do not know.  (Lvl20+ mechs will be routinely pitted against lvl0 ones because the MM system cannot divine which of your available mechs you plan to use.)  I don't understand why vital functional aspects of your mech need to be unlocked in the first place; if I'm honest it feels like it was done for the sake of the grind.  Huge step backwards.
A Trick Missed:  See above; something akin to the above suggestion would resolve this matter.

The weapon levels still stack buffs.  Amusingly, the buffs found in here are far higher than anything found within the Ops tree.  Not only does this make a further mockery of the Ops tree as it stands now but it also continues to reinforce the game's philosophy of a vertical progression system.
A Trick Missed:  The approach of unlocking functionality instead of falling back on the brain-dead solution of stacking yet more artificial buffs fits in neatly here as well: unlock weapon presets (chosen in the garage, not on the field) by weapon level that allow you to use a weapon in a different ways.  One example that was suggested by me and echoed by a dev at a later date would be to have a Hellfire preset in that the missiles fly at 150% normal speed but their turn rate is 33% worse.
(http://community.pla...mers#entry92721)

Other general niggles that in and of themselves aren't entirely evil but do contribute to the general state of the game:-
- C-class mechs are still without a special ability that isn't an immediate death sentence.
- C-class mechs are now even slower under thrust; barely an improvement over their already glacial walking pace.  (All mechs are slower under thrusting conditions but this change affects the Cs far more than any other chassis.  The Cs have been progressively dumped on as the test cycles progress; it's like Adhesive want Hawken to be A-shaped.)
- The cost of internals has roughly tripled.
- Countermeasures, commensurate with the buffing of the only internal item that's ever been useful in the game (the EMP), paint a picture of one of the most transparent attempts at generating revenue I've seen in recent times by creating a powerful force that can only be mitigated (without any skill whatsoever, which only compounds how poorly conceived this idea is) with MPs.  (New players, and probably a good number of experienced players, cannot earn HPs fast enough to keep up with the Countermeasure expenditure rate, particularly if you're trying to save up for a new mech and internals [see above].)

...plus enumerable other niggles that I will not be including, at least for now.  I am conscious of this being an ostensibly negative post but I don't want to turn it into industrial scale negativity-fest by hanging it all out on the line.

I hoped that the devs had inwardly digested the meaning of this term: Counter-play...



...Alas not, it would appear.  I can feel the disappointment twisting my gut.  *sad face*

I find it difficult to put into words quite how disappointed I am with this OB; I suppose some of this comes from a sense of resignation that if the above problems haven't shown signs of being resolved now that it's far too late in the day to expect anything better going forward.  (An Open Beta that does not wipe progress before full release is a far less agile beast when it comes to making fundamental changes.  Money is starting to change hands now so the game has entered into an entirely new, and in many ways binding, ballgame.)  

I enjoyed the Alpha tests but can't tell you why (NDA).  *cough* Fight Club *cough*  I enjoyed CB1 because it was the first glimpse of what the final product might look like; it had its faults but things were looking promising.  I now look back upon CB2 as something of a 'golden age' in Hawken's development, much to my current chagrin.  CB3 was a difficult beast to like, not in the least part due to the terrible matchmaking results (I think I had perhaps five good games out of countless dozens that were not ruined by stacked teams), and the various discussions about 'vertical vs horizontal' progression gave me cause for hope that something special might still result.  This OB sends a shiver down my spine which warns me that all I can look forward to is CoD in mechs.  No thanks, not interested in that, but I accept that it might be a model that makes money.

I paid for the Lieutenant package, and yes, I do feel like I've wasted my money.  There's no way that I can live with a vertical progression F2P game so I guess this post might well turn out to be my Dear John letter to Hawken.  *sniffles*
:unsure:

#2 z121231211

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Posted December 14 2012 - 08:25 AM

View Postdefekt, on December 14 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

The Ops tree yet further reinforces the game's now obvious vertical progression approach by drip-feeding the unlocking, and therefore use of, alternate primary weapon, items and internals.
Other than having to unlock item slots, that is one thing they got right. Assuming the weapons are balanced and internals have equal pros and cons, it's about as horizontal as they could get. It makes it so that a mech isn't exactly better at a higher level, just more specialized.

Edited by z121231211, December 14 2012 - 08:27 AM.

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#3 LunaticCalm

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Posted December 14 2012 - 08:38 AM

Yeah, I'm largely in the same boat a the op. All the news articles seemed to show the devs knew how to do f2p right, but the actual game tells a very different story.

It feels like they haven't really thought through the way that their progression system interacts with matchmaking.

Just going to keep my fingers crossed they come to their senses, but now that money is changing hands, their ability to do sweeping changes gets smaller and smaller.

Edited by LunaticCalm, December 14 2012 - 08:43 AM.


#4 ReachH

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Posted December 14 2012 - 08:52 AM

The ops tree is subtle because it is about tweaking the feel of a mech, something it does well.

The level buffs are to make leveling more significant, simply to appeal to the F2P nature of the game.

Countermeasures, I have always said, are a worthless addition - whose only purpose is to provide a variable for economic manipulation with the hopes of encouraging Meteor Point sales. Mark Long literally lied to our face when he said Hawken was not going to sell convenience. It is not only selling convenience, it is selling ​convenience towards acquiring power. It is literally soft pay-2-win.

All that being said, I still think the end-game has some competitive potential.

I just worry that they are designing a game who's only satisfaction comes from leveling, rather than getting better and better at the game. If my experience ever turns into this, I will literally stop playing - and there is nothing that would bring me back. Not out of spite, or principle, but simply by lack of interest.

LoL is massively popular in the Chinese market simply because it is easy to pick up, and immediately rewarding (read from an interview on TeamLiquid, I'm not just making sht up). It is simultaneously appealing to competition because of the rich meta-game. I don't mind Hawken sharing its appeal to both the F2P casuals and the competitive players, and its multimedia ventures - its just simply good for business, and could fund massive prize pools in the future.

But if it ever becomes clear that meteor values F2P more than competition, I will simply stop playing. Again, simply out of lack of interest. The hook of F2P is just too simplistic - it is literally designed to enrapture bored people (one of the reasons cited by the Chinese magazine editor as to why LoL is so much more popular than SC2 in China). I did the same with Planetside 2, after I had a look out of curiosity. It is now uninstalled and I will probably never think of it again other than in F2P comparisons like this one. And luckily, the same cannot be said so of Hawken... and by the way the devs act, I don't think it will.

So yes, the devs pulled a political fast-one in order to milk all the benefits of a F2P model, and they have even dabbled in P2W, but I am thus so far inclined to believe that they still want to make a competitive eSports title. That is what keeps me interested. That is all that ever has.

Edited by ReachH, December 14 2012 - 09:08 AM.

View Post[HWK]HUGHES, on October 23 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

Development happens.


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#5 MastaBlasta

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Posted December 14 2012 - 09:03 AM

It encourages people to put money into the game, as it seems the only way to win is to just have a better mech.  Isee this going the way of tribes 2, fun at first but after a while of getting fuzzy bunny by someone who just invested more into the game in time and money will really make me just not want to play this game.

#6 KaszaWspraju

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Posted December 14 2012 - 09:03 AM

My type, short:
  • EU  fills itself over time Siege mode.

  • Items now regenerate after a set amount of time.

  • Items are now divided into just two categories: Offensive Items and Support Items (the old Defensive and Functional categories are now "Support")

  • In my opinion, the last thing this game needs is to increase the speed difference between classes,taking into account how it can be further enhanced.

  • mechs now bouncing too high and too much time to spend in the air. It looks stupid.

  • fuel for the sprint is now far too much, I can virtually fly through the half map before it runs out, and it's no upgrade.

  • $ 1 = € 1 plus tax.

  • Countermeasures!
IMO bad changes.

@defekt

Quote

CoD in mechs
I see it also, unfortunately, the game goes in that direction, rather than follow his own path

Edited by KaszaWspraju, December 14 2012 - 09:14 AM.

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#7 techno_destructo

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Posted December 14 2012 - 09:13 AM

I just want a decent ping. I'm tired of teleporting all herky-jerky and causing self damage with projectile weapons. O' HEAT gun, I love and I hate. I've had some games back in earlier betas where somehow I was sub 100 ping and dear lord it was glorious. So much of this game is based around movement and having tasted how it should feel, it really kills me to know how much better it could be. I guess I should be thankful that I'm not one of those poor saps with 200+ but even then, this is 2012. I'm not using a 56k modem. I was happy for 150 ping when I had dial-up 14 years ago. Now it just makes me want to barf.
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#8 defekt

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Posted December 14 2012 - 09:23 AM

View PostReachH, on December 14 2012 - 08:52 AM, said:

The ops tree is subtle because it is about tweaking the feel of a mech, something it does well.
Yet it could have been implemented in such a way as to retain the feel aspect of your selections (in fact, enhanced to be more meaningful, a la CB1 levels - was it CB1? anyway, before the numbers were all divided by 3) and not p_ss in the face of a horizontal progression ethic, as suggested in the link.  Of course, if a player holds no ire toward vertical progression games, and a great many don't, then my reasons for quitting Hawken will not resonate with them and that's fair enough.  Live and let live.  :lol:

View PostReachH, on December 14 2012 - 08:52 AM, said:

The level buffs are to make leveling more significant, simply to appeal to the F2P nature of the game.
Indeed, yet once again there are more intelligent ways to accomplish this without stacking buffs.  I don't need to reopen the debate, we all know which games do well that do not stack buffs, and we can each cite games that do well that do stack buffs.  In many ways it is now immaterial to me which avenue Hawken takes, it's more that my frustration is born of wishing I'd known that this was the path that Hawken was taking a lot sooner and I'd have saved myself a bit of time and the better part of thirty quid.

Edit:  I should also say that I do agree with what you said in the remainder of your post.  :)

Edited by defekt, December 14 2012 - 09:30 AM.


#9 Talesin

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Posted December 14 2012 - 09:35 AM

Just adding my two cents here. I paid out for VI Commander based on the game as-it-was in CBT3. Needing some polish and re-balancing to even things out a little, but for the most part, pretty good.

The jump from CBT to OBT strikes me as some middle-manager going 'Okay, now MONETIZE IT! WE'VE GOT THEIR MONEY!!'. It's a shocking degree of change considering the jumps between Alpha and the Closed Betas.

I honestly feel more of betrayed than anything else at the moment; the game as-it-was reworked almost entirely in a very short period of time to make it easier to charge people, add in fuzzy bunny like the countermeasures, dropping HP generation and TRIPLING the cost of things in the Shop. I've got a level 15 Assault now, and not even HALF of the needed HP to buy the offensive item that unlocked *two days* ago. And I haven't exactly been doing nothing in the interim.


I'd say that the point where it went off the rails was when some greedy ****-nosed Marketing ****bag stepped in and said 'Okay, this is what we're doing now'.
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#10 KaszaWspraju

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Posted December 14 2012 - 09:43 AM

I think that the game is slowly losing its character.
In alpha 2 I felt that I play mech, since CB3 I play toy.

I'm raving, does anyone else have this feeling?

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#11 Sylhiri

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Posted December 14 2012 - 09:44 AM

I felt the progression from Alpha throughout the Closed Beta's was fantastic. Some things totally needed a fix but it felt like it was progressing quite nicely. When Open Beta came I was bursting with anticipation but when I jumped into the game it felt almost alien. All that progression seemed to fall on it's face and I do feel a bit betrayed that they didn't let the community test at least some of these things out before launch. CB3 was the longest closed beta yet we tested the least amount of in-game changes, kind of feels like as soon as money came into the picture all community input was just echos in the wind~~~

Edit: You know what, it feels rushed. A whole lot of last minute changes in order to meet the 12.12.12 deadline they set up a long time ago.

Edited by Sylhiri, December 14 2012 - 09:47 AM.

[13:14] <nonsiccus_work> uh oh

there's gravy in my keyboard

----------------------------------------------------------------------

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[11:18] <Hyginos> and if you want to play zerker, go smc
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#12 Cpt_Kill_Jack

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Posted December 14 2012 - 10:03 AM

View PostKaszaWspraju, on December 14 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

My type, short:
  • EU  fills itself over time Siege mode.

  • Items now regenerate after a set amount of time.

  • Items are now divided into just two categories: Offensive Items and Support Items (the old Defensive and Functional categories are now "Support")

  • In my opinion, the last thing this game needs is to increase the speed difference between classes,taking into account how it can be further enhanced.

  • mechs now bouncing too high and too much time to spend in the air. It looks stupid.

  • fuel for the sprint is now far too much, I can virtually fly through the half map before it runs out, and it's no upgrade.

  • $ 1 = € 1 plus tax.

  • Countermeasures!
IMO bad changes.

@defekt

Quote

CoD in mechs
I see it also, unfortunately, the game goes in that direction, rather than follow his own path
I really myself done like some of the same points that you are making. I dont like the fact that someone can now use as many turrets as they want. I liked it when it was one turret per life and one emp per life. In a way I like the time i can spend in the air as it opens up more combat capabilities. But the travel time across the ground is lower and I have noticed it. Countermeasures though I use them not often because every match you want to use them you have to check a box. But I would rather instead of seeing a countermeasure item for EMPs I would like to see a defensive internal called EMP shielding that Protects your weapons from the emp so you can still shoot them but your cockpit displays are gone. I just done really like them and they arent used so much so countermeasures will be something that might get removed due to non use.

For the Call of Duty yea there is some but there is some in all FPSs now a days and Crysis which tried to get away from it never got the attention it deserved and in Crysis 2 they codified it. This game is still far from CoD though. Hopefully as the devs add more mechs and weapons we will get farther away from cod like mechanics.

View PostTalesin, on December 14 2012 - 09:35 AM, said:

Just adding my two cents here. I paid out for VI Commander based on the game as-it-was in CBT3. Needing some polish and re-balancing to even things out a little, but for the most part, pretty good.

The jump from CBT to OBT strikes me as some middle-manager going 'Okay, now MONETIZE IT! WE'VE GOT THEIR MONEY!!'. It's a shocking degree of change considering the jumps between Alpha and the Closed Betas.

I honestly feel more of betrayed than anything else at the moment; the game as-it-was reworked almost entirely in a very short period of time to make it easier to charge people, add in fuzzy bunny like the countermeasures, dropping HP generation and TRIPLING the cost of things in the Shop. I've got a level 15 Assault now, and not even HALF of the needed HP to buy the offensive item that unlocked *two days* ago. And I haven't exactly been doing nothing in the interim.


I'd say that the point where it went off the rails was when some greedy ****-nosed Marketing ****bag stepped in and said 'Okay, this is what we're doing now'.

A lot of the stuff actually costs less. The mechs were reduced in price and there was a little change in the amount of HC you get but thats minimal. Many of the items were reduced in price and the different customizations were reduced in price except for the Pink Checkard. A lot has changed and it will continue to change.

#13 ApoC_101

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Posted December 14 2012 - 10:15 AM

Thankfully I've basically put the game down since that fateful launch day.... I still feel they are going to get it right, but it was definitely "off to a bad start" and put a sour taste in a lot of players mouths, both the new ones and the guys like us who have been playing and testing since Alpha. I really hope they head in the right direction... right now their direction with the game is definitely is something to be concerned about.

Edited by ApoC_101, December 14 2012 - 10:16 AM.

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#14 Talesin

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Posted December 14 2012 - 10:24 AM

View PostApoC_101, on December 14 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

Thankfully I've basically put the game down since that fateful launch day.... I still feel they are going to get it right, but it was definitely "off to a bad start" and put a sour taste in a lot of players mouths, both the new ones and the guys like us who have been playing and testing since Alpha. I really hope they head in the right direction... right now their direction with the game is definitely is something to be concerned about.

They need to fire the greedy Marketing manager who stepped in at the eleventh hour. Preferably out of a cannon. At a brick wall.
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#15 SirCannonFodder

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Posted December 14 2012 - 10:35 AM

View PostCpt_Kill_Jack, on December 14 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

A lot of the stuff actually costs less. The mechs were reduced in price and there was a little change in the amount of HC you get but thats minimal. Many of the items were reduced in price and the different customizations were reduced in price except for the Pink Checkard. A lot has changed and it will continue to change.

Items and internals all cost 1500 HC in closed beta. Now items cost over 3800, and internals cost over 2400.

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#16 Saunders

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Posted December 14 2012 - 11:25 AM

Hey there Defekt, we haven't yet had a chance to implement those features we talked about during CBE2/CBE3.

It's not a quick process to redo the way progression works, or redo the way the optimizations work, or create sidegrade weapons (we have very high standards for how to approach this and you'll start seeing some of it trickle in during early 2013).  Our focus for this open beta release was on getting the core of the experience really solid; an easier to understand process for new players to get familiar with the game (which was a super huge problem), revamped ui (still more coming), a strong focus on performance optimization, a strong focus on making sure matchmaking was working the way it should have been and making that feel as balanced as possible, a strong focus on making sure that the game didn't explode when we moved from close to open beta, etc.

Those updates we talked about are still coming in the future. :D  Specifically:
- Ops tree changes
- Weapon upgrade changes
- Ability upgrade changes (and making them more useful in general)
- More mech-specific differentiation

Please be patient - this is an ever-growing product and I assure you we haven't changed direction in any way from what we discussed before (other than doing MORE of what we talked about in better ways than we had originally imagined).  We have some sweet updates coming down the pipe that we're all super excited to share in the coming months (and years!)  :D
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#17 Beemann

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Posted December 14 2012 - 11:34 AM

View PostKaszaWspraju, on December 14 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

  • Items now regenerate after a set amount of time.
  • Items are now divided into just two categories: Offensive Items and Support Items (the old Defensive and Functional categories are now "Support")
  • mechs now bouncing too high and too much time to spend in the air. It looks stupid.
1. This is actually a good thing. The old system just promoted being a baddie. In a competitive match the last thing you want is to reward a team for dying
2. This is also a good thing really, as the old system would have basically turned into HE, turrets, Detonator and EMP for offensive, Shield, Repair Orb, Holo for defensive and just the two radar abilities for functional... which really doesn't leave much to decide. I kinda doubt they'd be able to equally support all 3, not to mention the fact that the player is now burdened with potentially tough choices as time goes on,
3. Vertical movement needed to be less pants. Standing on a wall or the AA was ridiculous before if you had any sort of cover to repair behind. Now people can climb up while exposing their mech to incoming fire

And I'm not really seeing the CoD comparison.
That sort of statement makes me feel as though the person making it doesn't play many FPS games, or is ignoring the huge differences between CoD and Hawken



View PostReachH, on December 14 2012 - 08:52 AM, said:

The ops tree is subtle because it is about tweaking the feel of a mech, something it does well.

The level buffs are to make leveling more significant, simply to appeal to the F2P nature of the game.
1. Actually the optimizations tree is set to change AFAIK. The devs said before (when health was still a huge stack) that they wanted a horizontal system Edit: Dev Ninja'd
2. F2P != grindfest. While grinding is the most popular way to make a F2P game, it really shows that either the devs, or the people defending it, don't feel that the gameplay is good enough to support the game on its own merits, and that artificial padding needs to be thrown in to make up for its shortcomings

Edited by Beemann, December 14 2012 - 11:35 AM.

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#18 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted December 14 2012 - 11:36 AM

View Post[ADH]Saunders, on December 14 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Hey there Defekt, we haven't yet had a chance to implement those features we talked about during CBE2/CBE3.

It's not a quick process to redo the way progression works, or redo the way the optimizations work, or create sidegrade weapons (we have very high standards for how to approach this and you'll start seeing some of it trickle in during early 2013).  Our focus for this open beta release was on getting the core of the experience really solid; an easier to understand process for new players to get familiar with the game (which was a super huge problem), revamped ui (still more coming), a strong focus on performance optimization, a strong focus on making sure matchmaking was working the way it should have been and making that feel as balanced as possible, a strong focus on making sure that the game didn't explode when we moved from close to open beta, etc.

Those updates we talked about are still coming in the future. :D  Specifically:
- Ops tree changes
- Weapon upgrade changes
- Ability upgrade changes (and making them more useful in general)
- More mech-specific differentiation

Please be patient - this is an ever-growing product and I assure you we haven't changed direction in any way from what we discussed before (other than doing MORE of what we talked about in better ways than we had originally imagined).  We have some sweet updates coming down the pipe that we're all super excited to share in the coming months (and years!)  :D
I remember you guys mentioning this, which is why I'm only complaining about absurd store pricing, countermeasures and FREAKING 7 SECOND LONG EMPS.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

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#19 LunaticCalm

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Posted December 14 2012 - 12:30 PM

View Post[ADH]Saunders, on December 14 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

Hey there Defekt, we haven't yet had a chance to implement those features we talked about during CBE2/CBE3.

It's not a quick process to redo the way progression works, or redo the way the optimizations work, or create sidegrade weapons (we have very high standards for how to approach this and you'll start seeing some of it trickle in during early 2013).  Our focus for this open beta release was on getting the core of the experience really solid; an easier to understand process for new players to get familiar with the game (which was a super huge problem), revamped ui (still more coming), a strong focus on performance optimization, a strong focus on making sure matchmaking was working the way it should have been and making that feel as balanced as possible, a strong focus on making sure that the game didn't explode when we moved from close to open beta, etc.

Those updates we talked about are still coming in the future. :D  Specifically:
- Ops tree changes
- Weapon upgrade changes
- Ability upgrade changes (and making them more useful in general)
- More mech-specific differentiation

Please be patient - this is an ever-growing product and I assure you we haven't changed direction in any way from what we discussed before (other than doing MORE of what we talked about in better ways than we had originally imagined).  We have some sweet updates coming down the pipe that we're all super excited to share in the coming months (and years!)  :D
Problem is, the market moves fast. If your initial impression isn't strong players are just going to leave, and probably not come back if you unveil a new progression system in 1-2 months.

The "open beta" label only does so much.

It's especially worrisome to the beta players, who seem to generally perceive the game going backwards, not forwards. Countermeasures, op tree changes, emp duration, inability to change weapons during a game, siege mode, item/internal prices, etc.

That's on top of the long standing issues which haven't been addressed at all, such as turret mode, autobalance, etc.

Edited by LunaticCalm, December 14 2012 - 12:32 PM.


#20 Saunders

Saunders

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Posted December 14 2012 - 12:41 PM

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on December 14 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:


I remember you guys mentioning this, which is why I'm only complaining about absurd store pricing, countermeasures and FREAKING 7 SECOND LONG EMPS.

We have a number of systems upcoming that will help with HC generation.  Not sure if you noticed, but HC generation was increased by about 30% over CBE3; that's something we'll definitely be adjusting over time.  Personally, I'm a fan of making sure players have plenty of mechs to choose from.  More mechs = better games!

As far as EMP goes, CBE3 had the shortest EMP time of all our closed beta tests.  After the item consolidation, and moving EMP from a support to an offense item, we wanted to buff it back up.  I'm of the opinion that the EMP SHOULD be powerful if you're going to give up a turret, a grenade, or any other offensive item to use it.  Plus you can EMP yourself quite easily.  Are you getting EMPd a ton?  I haven't seen it used much yet.
David Saunders | Game Designer on HAWKEN @ Adhesive Games




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