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Build your own mech


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#1 Thirsterhall

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Posted April 23 2014 - 04:54 AM

Wouldn't it be cool if you could "build your own Mech"?  Say pick a class A, B or C. Pick from a list of base parts, legs, arms body etc. Pick primary and secondary weapons and an ability.  Each choice could be limited based on previous choices for example some weapons might require a C class mech.  Ability's would also be limited by class of mech.

Each option could be gated by purchases so it would require a bit of effort to earn the credits to purchase all the parts you want.

#2 ReEvolve

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Posted April 23 2014 - 05:02 AM

View PostArnieF4440, on January 27 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

Q: Why don't we have full much customisation in the game?
A: Answer is a bit paraphrased, but:

View PostElix, on May 11 2013 - 04:59 AM, said:

This has been asked at least weekly since alpha. Let me tell you why it's never been done: It has been playtested, and it was awful. Giving people full customization meant that everything devolved into one or two minmax'd combinations that everyone played. If you weren't using a mech with the set of three or four OP combinations, you were intentionally handicapping yourself for no reason. It completely defeated the purpose of having customization.

But stay with me, here. If you separate the weapon loadouts and force people to make decisions, something amazing happens. With the application of individual special abilities and approriate selection of weapon loadouts, class roles emerge, and tactics and strategies begin to be created to fill the holes created around these new roles. Rocketeer is a medium to long range explosive house of paincakes, but it doesn't get any hitscan weapons. Sharpshooter is the premier long-range area-denial sniper mech, but it's not as suited for close quarters combat. On the other hand, the Reaper is a medium-range support sniper and short-range assassin, picking off weak people engaged in combat with the Reaper's teammates or darting after a weakened enemy trying to limp away. Raider gets in your face and blows it off, but it's not a very good counter to a Sharpshooter on the other side of the map.

These nuanced game dynamics came into being because you don't get to build your dream mech. There's a reason the Infiltrator does not get Berserker's damage boost ability and the Rev-GL (because the Infiltrator is a light cloaking striker, not a miniature Grenadier).
taken from: HAWKEN Tips and Tricks Thread

While it seems like a cool idea (and most players love customizing their mechs in order to be unique) it also brings some problems along. There would be some really OP combinations even with the restrictions that you mentioned your post. The game balance wasn't made for full customization so the whole game would need a whole rebalance and many players who just adjusted / accepted the latest changes to the gameplay would need to learn the game again. Chances are that Hawken would lose a lot of players during that process of rebalancing...

#3 IronClamp

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Posted April 23 2014 - 05:00 PM

I'm gonna say something your gonna read alot.

USE THE SEARCH ENGINE

I posted something similar, a month ago.

"Or maybe we'll just have to go through you"


#4 SectionZ

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Posted April 23 2014 - 10:08 PM

Oh, oh, I know this one!  Heavy or Assault, Jumpjets, a pair of Gauss Rifles or PPCs.

Am I doing this right?

#5 SciFox

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Posted April 23 2014 - 11:03 PM

Mink flak scout with Blitz.

IM THE FASTEST MAN ALIVE

#6 LEmental

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Posted April 23 2014 - 11:14 PM

A class with hellfire and heat cannon (or lasers).

Edited by LEmental, April 23 2014 - 11:14 PM.

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#7 Hell_Diguner

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Posted April 23 2014 - 11:16 PM

View PostIronClamp, on April 23 2014 - 05:00 PM, said:

I'm gonna say something your gonna read alot.

USE THE SEARCH ENGINE

I posted something similar, a month ago.
Heck, there's this threadon the frontpage of the general discussion right now.

View PostBeefsweat, on April 23 2014 - 09:59 AM, said:

...at higher levels of play, especially, players quickly realized that the internals system was merely an illusion of depth and customization, when in practice there were only one or two optimal internal builds to take on any given mech and using anything other than the optimal build put players at a needless disadvantage (funnily enough this is also why very early models of mech customization, where you could pick any combination of chassis+ability+two primary & secondary weapons, were fazed out - why go with anything but the best possible choice?).

View PostBlood_Jester, on April 23 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

If you are referring to mechwarrior level of customization in which you can change weapon load outs, engine, heatsinking etc.

I will requote myself on this and add abit more:

1. Balancing:
This takes time yet adding more complexity means more difficulty in balancing mechs and components. Mechwarrior is a complex game but it has gone through decades of balance tweaks and adjustments with each version, and yet even the latest MWO struggles to get it right, in fact players from that game had to deal with months of poorly balanced sniper mechs flying over terrain, 1 hit KO, and then fly back down to safety AKA "poptarting"

2. Another "pay hurdle":
Allowing more customization is great for players who have the HC, but again think of the new guys who joins, the economy still needs to be worked, yet adding another layer for new guys to have to push through if they want to tool their mech just right, only further increasing the feeling that the game is a "grind" or even pay2win.

3. The illusion of choice:
I will use MWO again as an example, even though there are multiple variants of mechs, and a huge array of weapons, you will find that in the end, most of the mechs are pretty much all carrying the same type of gear, because players will try to exploit the current meta. I believe the same would happen for hawken, even if players had 30 different types of weapons to choose from for a single mech, in the end 90% of them will still just carry the same one.

4. Advantages for those who don't need it:
I assume when it comes to customization people want to maximise their mech to suit their playstyle, which in turn means give themselves bonuses that increase how deadly they are in battle while having penalities applied (which may not even effect them at all). Here in lies the problem, if we assume that greater customization comes from the more you play, then the players who already have the experience and skill, now have a greater advantage against less skilled players.

-------------------------------------------------------

I actually would not mind greater levels of customization or uniqueness but remember that such things come at a cost. If hawken was a purely co-op game then huge levels of customization would not be a problem because you could run around with rediculously unbalanced mechs firing nuclear missiles at bots and people will just laugh and have fun with it e.g. Killing Floor with its funny array of weapons

But unfortunately in a PVP setting the cost of customization comes at the cost of balance and this not just an issue with Hawken, MOBA games such as LoL, Dota 2 and other competative FPS often offer limited customization for this reason
I have over 1500 hours playing the FPS game Blacklight Retribution - which has significant weapon and avatar customization. I had my kicks playing around with customization there and spent a lot of time looking at stats, tweaking, and testing. I have since decided games are more interesting and waste less of your time when your options are limited to a small number of well balanced items - so that you don't have to research the best builds or spend countless hours tweaking. In games like TF2 and Halo I adapted myself to the weapons, which turned out to be a much faster and more rewarding than building weapons and characters that I was (for lack of better explanation) OP with. Indeed, when I play BLR these days, I never equip my perfect build any more. It's boring.

And that's just my disenfranchisement with customization - let alone all the time and effort Zombie spent futilely trying to balance everything to be viable yet not overpowered - let alone the existence of best builds - let alone a pay and grind hurdle.

Edited by Hell_Diguner, April 23 2014 - 11:17 PM.


#8 ArnieF4440

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Posted April 24 2014 - 05:11 PM

View PostReEvolve, on April 23 2014 - 05:02 AM, said:

-snip-
Lol, beat me to it :D
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#9 Wipman

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Posted May 23 2014 - 11:01 AM

I'll like to see a slimer but taller C class mech, with a cockpit that looks like a MI-24 one from outside, that you could see the pilots inside, and how they bleed and the glass brokes down as the mech takes damage, maybe x3 Matra Snev rocket pods or HYDRA ones on one side and an arm with a hand holding a VZ Skorpion III like SMG with a visible green laser pointer attached; upgradeable to an AKS-74U like AR or to a Saiga 12-K like shotgun.
I would also like to see a C class mech with an AH-64 like cockpit, or an AH-1Z like one.. or with an EA-6B or EF-111 cockpit like, all wasted, with rust and fuel dirts, but that you can see the pilots from outside. Slimer but taller C class mechs.

#10 Battlesbreak

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Posted May 24 2014 - 06:15 AM

Infiltrator with two Vulcan TXT's "SURPRISE BUTSECKS!"

#11 Meraple

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Posted May 24 2014 - 06:20 AM

Incinerator with Blitz.

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Spoiler


#12 redslion

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Posted May 24 2014 - 10:15 AM

Well, let me tell you this as a GW2 player:

full customization rarely equals build diversity. In GW2 you can make very different builds, but each class rarely has more than 1-2 optimal builds for pvp.

No matter how much you can customize, devs always need to "force" diversity by having game concepts in mind and assuring at least THOSE are viable.

And the MOBA method AKA: you can't customize your mech but you can choose from a wide array of different classes is the easiest and most reliable way to do that.

#13 Cornarias

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Posted May 25 2014 - 03:44 AM

Assuming there are limitations to weapons based on weight class, I'll go with something that's all B-class.

Assault with T32, Corsair, and Powershot.

Only bad things can happen when this is allowed.

If we were allowed any class to use any weapons: Scout with T32, Corsair XT, Powershot.

This would be hella broken, and is the main issue when it comes to customization in games. Take Loadout for example. Loadout is an amazing game with the best weapon customization I've ever seen. And until the patch a month or so ago, there was no reason to use anything except the shield - tesla beam combo. Your secondary would often be a rocket launcher or a beam sniper. And that's all you'd see, because they were the best at the time.

I prefer being pushed into a class / role than making my own. It makes me feel as if I have a direction more than "if it moves, kill it". It's nice to have your own little niche without having to min-max everything to make the jack of all trade, loser to none.

Edited by Cornarias, May 25 2014 - 05:13 AM.


#14 Zealmon

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Posted June 02 2014 - 01:28 PM

I agree completely to a customization option should be revisited, the currnet mechs and changes are drastic from the game play a year ago and even from orinigally, but to a wrost extent not better. i dont beileve it should be excused to say the best option is the preselected cut outs of mechs which look and feel unbalanced and call them the best fit. Past players have stated and left becuase the developers dont wish to meet that challage in twicking a gameplay of mechwarriors but some clone version of it. Whatever the case this game has potential for meeting an high exceptation but i dont know when they'll start trying to meet it.




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