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Performance/Superiority Issues.


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#1 Valkerian

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Posted July 19 2011 - 12:47 AM

Ok, as I am sure most of you have seen by now, certain parties are raging in all the threads about how PC's trump consoles in every way. I myself must admit to getting sucked into said arguments. But it's a blight upon the forums and often drives most topics into the dreaded lands of the off-topic. So I decided to go ahead and create a thread (since I didn't see one already) in which you are able to duke it out. This thread is specifically for those that feel that PC, 360, or PS3 is generally superior or outperforms the others in some way when it comes to Hawken.

Feel free to contradict what someone is saying or refute their claims but be sure to remember that these are all opinions of individuals and be respectful of their opinions as they should be of yours. Golden rule applies: If you can't say something nice about someone, don't say anything at all. Lets not start yet another flame war.

#2 Delta_Centauri

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Posted July 19 2011 - 05:45 PM

In short:
PC will always be better since they have a number of features consoles can't give, but as the current game looks, it was already planned for consoles digitally and isn't the most struggling to run even on a low-end PC (In their own words.) I'm guessing the game will only be around 800MB for downloading purposes.

Continued:
Of course, I would love to see the team as dedicated as other indie game developers, like the team that made, "Sanctum." Adding free DLC such as maps, new Mechs, additional gamemodes, or simply working on idea's we suggested. The only problem is that if they set this towards consoles the additional content will be priced as well as capped on what they can release at a time and how much(Such as the case with Microsoft.) Being their own publishers digitally (Or released on other programs/applications like Steam) could benefit them as well as help them get a good name later on.

PC= Less money earned, but respect earned for free DLC such as maps and Mechs.
Consoles= Possible success or failure of Hawken, updates and map packs would help benefit income.

Seeing Kaos Studios crash is my main reason for that, Frontlines was one of my favorite games while Homefront was mediocre.

So I would support this as a PC-exclusive all the way. If they could strike a deal where they can easily support consoles as they could through the PC, then go for it. I would like to see them support this game afterwards, not where developers slag away from a game completely with the plan of a few map releases.

#3 The_Silencer

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Posted July 20 2011 - 07:16 AM

well, I'd be more on the side of a decent price for the main title and later for a cheap price for the DLC. Although this is just my personal opinion. :)

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#4 DarkS7ar

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Posted July 20 2011 - 07:52 AM

I like consoles because most of my favorite games are on them and I have a good friend base there.

With that said and being the simplest reason why I'll stand by consoles, I have to say yes you can do more and get more from/ with a PC.
But this "do more and get more" is user based content, better graphics, (If you have a good PC and internet service) smoother motion of the game, possibly a larger community and that's about it from my stand point.
Okay were talking all this for about 400 or 500 dollars more than the 150 or 300 dollars consoles.

The reason I bought my 360 was for Halo 3. There is only Halo CE (LOVE) and Halo 2 vista on PC. What I'm trying to point out is that there is no solid arguement to said one is better that the other. They BOTH have pros and cons. And when it boils down to it (from what I've witnessed) one being better than the other is only preference.

Also Another topic that gets thrown down is "porting". Because a game is going to be on both consoles and PC does not mean it will have console standard graphics for both. The only reason they normally do is because the developers of that game have to rush it out the door to meet deadline or they don't give a shit and want quick cash.

I can tell the Devs at AG are not going either route, because they will not release a date till they know things are solid with the game AND they want to make an Awsome Mech game with a beautiful world.

If a game fails in your eyes because of graphics then that's not the hardware's fault. Its the developers.

You can choose to believe my words or throw them against me. But this is what I believe are the Facts and I will stand by them without being swayed.

End of rant.
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#5 NAVY MARCOM

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Posted July 20 2011 - 12:08 PM

SO, your argument for both PC and console being equal is;

PC - HAS  better graphics, faster processors, you can do more with it..

360- HAS  Halo

..now really, how am I ever suppose to take you seriously when you say epically insipid things like this.
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#6 DarkS7ar

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Posted July 20 2011 - 12:57 PM

NAVY MARCOM said:

SO, your argument for both PC and console being equal is;

PC - HAS  better graphics, faster processors, you can do more with it..

360- HAS  Halo

..now really, how am I ever suppose to take you seriously when you say epically insipid things like this.

Lol in retro spec, Yes. I believe its the games that make the hardware, not the other way around.
Plus I'd rather save my money for things that I don't need to upgrade its hardware every two months to stay on top.

You playing PC because you like looking at something that's very detailed. I like going over to my friends house and having a 8v8 LAN party.

Its not a comparison, its an acknowledgement that these machines are two different things.

Can I ask you something? Which is better a desktop or laptop? Not which is better as a gaming computer but the overall factor.
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#7 NAVY MARCOM

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Posted July 20 2011 - 02:01 PM

a desk top and lap top can be upgraded and have greatly varied features, unlike the console which is static from the moment it's conceived, ( which is usually 2-4 years before the ramp up for production), you realize that dx9c is a spec from the EARLY days of XP SP2 .. the API your 360 has to work with is almost a decade old.

what's sad is that microsoft, in trying to keep the PC from moving too much further ahead has halted Direct X API production, DX11 is held static where we should be at DX13 by now given the 1-2 year turn around from direct X's inception.  Now that is sad and goes to proof that the console system, as an engineering exercise, is a flawed concept.. but like Apple from a business point of view it's gold, 100% proprietary, no upgrades, no 3rd party without lic. cost.. So console owners have done nothing but stunt the forward growth of computer/digital based gaming.
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#8 Ashfire908

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Posted July 20 2011 - 02:29 PM

I think you missed the part where DarkS7ar asked if desktops or laptops were better overall, rather than gaming wise.
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#9 NAVY MARCOM

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Posted July 20 2011 - 02:48 PM

I think he was asking me to pick between a lap top or desk top .. but did not give a context or parameters under which to make the choice, so I went where I felt like going with it.  Which is of course into a console bash.  :twisted:
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#10 ApocalypeX

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Posted July 20 2011 - 05:03 PM

Navy, I'm getting bored of your need to make your e-peen bigger. Yes the PC is superior than a console.

But does it effect you what happens on the console version?
No.

Will the quality of the PC version be hindered by the console version?
No.

Will developing them side by side effect the PC version?
Nope. The whole purpose of a development  suite like UDK that allows you to build games for multiple platforms is that it builds the game for a platform you tell it too. So there might be some xbox related stuff there but you wont be interfere your PC version. Maybe a tiny bit but nothing that could drop the framerate at all. The only thing that would be effected is content like models and textures but that can be tweaked for the console versions.

So what is your problem?
I don't know.

#11 LordPorkSword

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Posted July 20 2011 - 05:48 PM

LOL at this thread...but it's a good idea to redirect the 'getting outta control' flaming outta the other threads!  :)
At least a the Devs aren't getting slagged anymore.(from a certian member...)  :|

Onto the topic at hand...

I own a PS3, Wii and a gaming PC.  I do all my gaming on my PC and only use my PS3 for Rock Band/Guitar Hero(even though I own other games), media streaming and as a Bluray player.  I hardly use the Wii these days and it's now moreso for the kids to use.
When Hawken is released I'll be playing the PC version only!

We all are aware of the hardware superiority of PC's but we can't forget that for consoles support is a lot easier as it's a set hardware platform and there's more money to be made in producing for consoles these days.  
We all need good developers to succeed and the biggest chance for this is to go multi platform.

UDK based games have already proven to work well with PC's and consoles as it can give high quality gfx and performance solutions that are adjustable across various platforms.  Plus it's one of the easiest engines to work with!

Part of the issue in the forums atm is that peeps are jumping the gun in relation to how the game will look and play.  We have yet to see full rez direct feed footage, for a near final build of Hawken, and no one has even played it yet.  'Hardcore judging' and nitpicking the gfx and gameplay on low rez vid feeds is somewhat premature and can make you look like an idiot IMO!

We all know the devs will make sure that Hawken looks it's best on any platform that they decide to release it on... and we all know that there are some peeps who will never be satisfied...

Last but not least...
Never argue with an idiot!  They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience!  ;)
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#12 NAVY MARCOM

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Posted July 20 2011 - 06:04 PM

my e-peen?/ lol wut?

As a programmer you should be smarter then to thing 512meg of total memory combined with out of date CPU and GPU's makes more then just a minor " models and textures.." I use UDK3 and there are whole segments of the product that cannot be used with the console, starting with the DX11 implementation, going down through the number of  lit vertices and texture density to the most basic map size.. I can make a single map that is 10x the size of what can ge used on a 360 using the same specs as you need to use to function with 360..

anyway, please try and use some proper English as e-peen means nought to me or is it one of those cockish southerner words your Londers have come up with..

ApocalypeX said:

Navy, I'm getting bored of your need to make your e-peen bigger. Yes the PC is superior than a console.

But does it effect you what happens on the console version?
No.

Will the quality of the PC version be hindered by the console version?
No.

Will developing them side by side effect the PC version?
Nope. The whole purpose of a development  suite like UDK that allows you to build games for multiple platforms is that it builds the game for a platform you tell it too. So there might be some xbox related stuff there but you wont be interfere your PC version. Maybe a tiny bit but nothing that could drop the framerate at all. The only thing that would be effected is content like models and textures but that can be tweaked for the console versions.

So what is your problem?
I don't know.

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#13 Ashfire908

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Posted July 20 2011 - 06:12 PM

NAVY MARCOM said:

my e-peen?/ lol wut?

ApocalypeX said:

Navy, I'm getting bored of your need to make your e-peen bigger. Yes the PC is superior than a console.
e-peen = e-dick. Who's got the larger one? Oh, I got a [insert good graphics card and cpu here]! Well, I got a [insert better graphics and cpu here]! Oh yeah? I got [insert full hardware specs here]!

Basically just boasting about who's got the better rig and gear, one uping each other, which in the end is as pointless as comparing who's got the larger 'peen'.

Edit: Someone had to explain it.
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#14 NAVY MARCOM

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Posted July 20 2011 - 06:16 PM

common, if I'm going to spend good cash on an awesome part I'm going to put it out there.. but I don't , I just leave it in the sig line ..  But I fail to see how pointing out that 8-10 year old tech is going to be anywhere as capable as a modern component, which is what allot of the arguments boil down to, is E-peen-ing  ( this is such a Chav word and it's the last time i'll use it ).

* but my system DOES rock*
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#15 ApocalypeX

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Posted July 20 2011 - 06:21 PM

This is the day when maps are not understood as content and not part of the game's programming. As I said, the map is content loaded into the game. The PC version can be the high quality the console a lower quality.

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I give up on these forums.

#16 NAVY MARCOM

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Posted July 20 2011 - 06:40 PM

ok, when you want to use real grammar to describe a thought that would be awesome.. that first sentence was almost a double negative, if you had built a real sentence.

The 'content' is what makes a game, the programming is never seen, but I guess as a programming nerd you can't see the forest for the trees.. Homefront is a perfect example of tried and tested programming with horrendous content, that content was made even worse as it was ported directly to the PC, where the glaring errors were brought to epic proportions.

Very few companies have the funding or desire to make 2 versions of the game, a PC version that actually pushes a modern PC like most AAA games push the 360, ( to RROD), would be a completely different game altogether.
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#17 DarkS7ar

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Posted July 20 2011 - 07:05 PM

Guys I'm just saying I love the game more than the system. PC hasn't had its own good stuff in awhile... wait now I see why everyone is so mad at the console community, sorry PC fans. We stole your shit.



ApocalypeX said:


Posted Image



Lmao, nuh said.
Above the sky, beneath the stars.
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#18 MechMechanic

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Posted July 20 2011 - 07:45 PM

Lord_Porksword said:

At least a the Devs aren't getting slagged anymore.(from a certian member...)  :|


Am I already famous, lol?. ^^.


This thread is all right. You can continue on without me C:.

Besides if the devs behave like sellout cunts, I'm going to point it out and stretch their shit in their faces.

However if the devs are intelligent and diligent to attend the game in the rightful perspective, I'm going to be at their side.

I simply dislike shit like any other ordinary gamer.

Sorry, continue on....

#19 Ashfire908

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Posted July 20 2011 - 07:56 PM

Ok this is my reply with the whole graphics thing. (I've been badly wanting to post this for awhile...)

First, watch this: http://www.escapistm...s-vs-Aesthetics

No, seriously, go watch it.

...

Did you watch it? Good.

As towards the graphics power needed to deliver the aesthetics shown up to this point, they are not doing anything crazy. They are just using DX10, not DX11, and it has been said that it runs on like any decent computer before optimization. Work was started with the PC first, and it will be later ported to consoles, so any graphical downgrade would be done to the consoles, not the PCs. I'm confident the team can maintain the look and feel for consoles with any downgrades that may be needed, and there will be no graphical issues affecting the aesthetics for PCs.

From there, the PC/console difference is down to controls. They are already playing the game on controllers on the PC as well as mouse and keyboard, so I'm sure that the game will work just as good on the traditional keyboard and mouse as it will on controllers (PC or not).

As long as the game looks good, I don't see the need for advanced graphic capabilities. And if the game feels the same, and I'm immersed either way, then the whole console vs PC debate comes down to this: What you prefer most.

You guys can keep debating the whole console vs PC thing, but to me, Hawken will be the same either way. The only difference is the shape and color of that heater in the corner with lights that is running your games.

(I'll create a full list of references for the stuff I said about Hawken's development upon request)
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#20 DarkS7ar

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Posted July 20 2011 - 07:57 PM

MechMechanics1 said:

Lord_Porksword said:


At least a the Devs aren't getting slagged anymore.(from a certian member...)  :|


Am I already famous, lol?. ^^.


This thread is all right. You can continue on without me C:.

Besides if the devs behave like sellout cunts, I'm going to point it out and stretch their shit in their faces.

However if the devs are intelligent and diligent to attend the game in the rightful perspective, I'm going to be at their side.

I simply dislike shit like any other ordinary gamer.

Sorry, continue on....

You sound like a faithful guy. I think we should take a hike across the Mojave sometime.
Above the sky, beneath the stars.
Is where I soar, and your world is no more.

http://i306.photobuc...597d4c3e0b5.jpg
^Queen of sniping.

DESTROY   Cupcake!




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