HAWKEN servers are up and our latest minor update is live!
Forgot Password? SUPPORT REDEEM CODE

Jump to content


About HEAVY Class Mechs.


  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1 Enryoki

Enryoki

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 49 posts
  • LocationSaint-Petersburg, Russia

Posted November 11 2012 - 08:19 AM

Hello everybody!
Glad to see that ure reading this topic)

So let's start.

Im playing Hawken now as Assaulter and Rocketeer. Tested both ones and have an opinion.

Okay, let's have some similar mechs of those classes above.
So we have 1lvl Assaulter and 1lvl Rocketeer.
First one is Middleweight and the most universal class. I could easiely play and just have fun.
And we will finish with this one right here.

So, what about the second class I played as.
I can surely say that i love heavy class in this game.
But playing as Rocketeer is really really hard. I was a little dissapionted...
I thought that this mech could take damage and especially in Turret mode. But as I can see, it only becomes slowier and vulnerable. So what i can make a small propound:

- Turret mode MUST be almost immune to bullet damage from front and more vulnerable from behind. Also explosion damage may be less effective.
- In T-Mode mech may have a little zoom.
- Maybe a less overheating for weapons.

Now let's talk about offensive powers:

- There is a small disbalance in dealing damage.. As the heaviest class, rocketeer needs to be like a fortified deadly machine.
- Heat Cannon must be more powerful, deals more damage and may have a little more splash damage too.
- Hellfire Rockets MUST be more powerful too. I have no explanation for this, but in my opinion, this weapon is made ONLY to bring a REAL DEATH to your enemies.
- Rocketeer is now just like a huge tincan. Its useless against all game modes. (Maybe except only the Siege mode, but only for hitting enemy battleships)

By the way im from Russia and having problems with english.
Anyway thank you for reading this.
And i hope to see HEAVY changes in Hawken.
See you in game, good luck.

#2 Stevoo4552

Stevoo4552

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 148 posts
  • Locationgermany

Posted November 11 2012 - 08:36 AM

I also think that the Firepower of the Heavy class mech is to low, on this moment heavy mech is for me just a big thing that that says "IM HERE, SHOOT ME". I thinked about an Heavy mech that gives some firesupport or stuff like that A Mech with an submachine gun for example as his primary weapon and his Secondary Weapon is an Big Fuzzy bunny gun  on his shoulder Like a Howitzer or just an Tank canon  like this mech just without four legs.    Sorry for bad english ;)


Posted Image

Edited by Stevoo4552, November 11 2012 - 08:47 AM.


#3 Thegodofkeys

Thegodofkeys

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts

Posted November 11 2012 - 09:03 AM

I totaly agree,the heavy mech class is slow im fine with this,but there must be something that compensates for that,the dmg is low and the defense is not alot better, i hope we see some big buffs in that direction next patch(sry for bad english but i think you will understand the point)

#4 Enryoki

Enryoki

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 49 posts
  • LocationSaint-Petersburg, Russia

Posted November 11 2012 - 10:04 AM

Thanks for Your support friends :)
I like this game so much and want to play as Rocketeer

#5 DarioPerfectus

DarioPerfectus

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts

Posted November 11 2012 - 10:40 AM

agree... Need more advantage in firepower, the other mechs could not stand front a heavy machine, they should be more like a  battle fortress.

more firepower and armor, less mobility.


the disadvantage  between the mechs should be more visible.

#6 Enryoki

Enryoki

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 49 posts
  • LocationSaint-Petersburg, Russia

Posted November 11 2012 - 11:14 AM

Heavy mechs are like Artillery:
- Long range distance.
- Large area of damage.
- Good scaner/radar.

Heat cannon is a good thing to go with, but it needs to be more powerful.
Hellfire rockets - main support weapon and deal the most powerful damage.
Oh.. and one more thing.. I totally can't understand what the "Repeater" is made for... It's absolutely useful.

P.S. Ofcourse snipers are the most powerful in dealing damage too, but in fact they just CAN NOT kill Heavy mech in turret mode from front with BULLETS.

#7 Nothus

Nothus

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 2 posts

Posted November 11 2012 - 12:25 PM

Yeah i feel like a sitting duck in my rocketeer. I don't deal damage all that well, I see no point to the repeater at all. If it was some sort of grenade launcher it'd be fine, or maybe the shots would stick around and be proximity mines or something.

The heat cannon can deal ok damage fully charged, but i feel it lacks a bit anyways.

And the turret mode seems to do nothing advantageous at all! It's also extremely slow to deploy. some more speed for that would be nice as well.

Maybe the turret mode could add huge area of effects to all the weapons?

#8 DreamFall

DreamFall

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 74 posts
  • LocationSaint Petersburg, Russian Federation.

Posted November 11 2012 - 12:57 PM

Yea~

Just today we played Hawken with Enry and tried to squeeze somethin' out of this pile of metal. Sometimes it just comes to farce: a huge machine like a useless kit... When in fact this big guy can bump into the enemy and kill him. :D

So... We hope the developers will take note of this.

Edited by DreamFall, November 11 2012 - 01:06 PM.


#9 Enryoki

Enryoki

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 49 posts
  • LocationSaint-Petersburg, Russia

Posted November 11 2012 - 02:01 PM

One more thing.
It can be great if players would been recieved some extra EXP for shooting down  Battleships in Siege mode.

#10 Nymphs

Nymphs

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 46 posts

Posted November 11 2012 - 02:19 PM

I feel that heavy mechs would, ironically, do better at long range than close quarters combat. With just a few tweaks, I feel they would make an ideal support role. As you mentioned earlier, Enryoki, they do better at long range. However, I feel like it isn't addressed in the game and a handful of people think "HEAVY MECH? SICK, NO ONE WILL BEST ME IN ONE ON ONE COMBAT NOW."
   However, if there were more tweaks to the heavy mech class, making it more artillery heavy and more of a support role instead of having "close quarters" or "damage taker" qualities, the class would be more ideal to play as. I do not agree with you on all the improvements you proposed with the heavy mech, it just seems that it would be much too overpowered. If the heavy mech were like that, the game would be unbalanced. Sure, it should have some close quarters capabilities, but I feel like "close quarters" should be more of its weakness rather than its strength.

#11 Enryoki

Enryoki

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 49 posts
  • LocationSaint-Petersburg, Russia

Posted November 11 2012 - 02:36 PM

Thanks for the reply Nymphs!
Actually there are some facts which need to fix.
Its a turret mode and weapons.
In close combat heavy mechs almost useful. And I don't have any questions about it. Really.
But in long range combat, they must be more powerful then now. Because now they can easiely be killed in long range.

#12 SEEKER1019

SEEKER1019

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 2 posts

Posted November 11 2012 - 10:58 PM

While I agree that the heavy class seems to have too many disadvantages compared to the others, I don't agree on a lot of the changes you mentioned because they would result in heavies (or another class entirely) becoming extremely over powered.

On the offensive side of things:

- Making the heat cannon even stronger than it already is would actually make things worse for someone using a heavy. Remember: the Infiltrator has access to that weapon too. If a mech with that much speed was allowed to carry a weapon with the kind of damage you're asking for, it would be more than capable of dodging fire from a heavy in either mode while also dealing the same crippling level of damage, which any other class would be much less likely to avoid. Everyone would want to use a lightweight since they would offer near one-hit-kill capability and no one would want to risk getting hit by one of those shots.

- I honestly believe that the Hellfire missiles are fine as they are. The HM Launcher is already one of the more powerful weapons in the game in terms of outright damage-dealing capability, and the weapon's only real weaknesses are the slow flight speed of the missiles and their wide spread at range when fired without a lock-on. You mentioned that the Rocketeer seems to only be useful in siege, and to me that seems intentional. The Hellfire missiles always seemed like more of a utility weapon to be used for very specific situations rather than something you would carry into a duel with another player.

- From my experience, the EOC Repeater has actually proven to be a decent weapon overall, but it is only really useful at close range. It seems like the weapon is intended to be the heavy-class version of the assault rifle, except that it fires in bursts and has explosive ammunition. It's real advantage is that it allows you to keep up continuous fire on the enemy during the long time it takes for the missile launcher to reload.

Concerning improvements to the turret mode:

- I do agree that the turret mode needs to offer a larger increase in the mech's defensive ability, and that the defensive bonus needs to be directional with respect to the mech's additional layer of armor, but "near immune to bullets from front" is pushing things a little too far. If that was the case, a team playing siege could deploy a heavy at each of the lower entrances to the AA turret and completely deny the enemy the chance to recapture it with little effort on their part. They could just sit there the whole game and it would be near impossible for the other team to win. On the other hand, someone in deathmatch could enter turret mode with their weaker side facing a corner and sit there the whole game without fear of being killed, especially if they combine that with the Brawler's ability to regenerate armor.

- The heavy's turret mode does feature an increase in zoom already, but I understand what you mean. Personally, I would prefer the zoom bonus to come in a toggle form, like a less powerful version of the sabot rifle's zoom, rather than something that would be active constantly. That way the heavy's weapons can still be useful at short range should the enemy manage to close in on it.

The idea that I really liked was the howitzer/tank cannon idea. One of my biggest complaints with the heavy class is that while it does have access to powerful weapons, almost all of them are useless at anything but close range. This greatly reduces the turret mode's strategic value since it can only deal a significant amount of damage to a mech that runs right up to it, and by that point the enemy can easily get behind it and render the defensive bonus it provides useless. But if heavy-class mechs had access to some sort of powerful long-range weapon when in turret mode then their usefulness will increase dramatically. Perhaps the Brawler could have a long range cannon and the Rocketeer could get a pair of large missile pods. These weapons could replace the normal secondary weapons while the mech is deployed, and their long range and superior firepower could be balanced out with immense heat buildup when fired, so that the player would need to allow the heat level to drop to almost zero before firing again without the risk of overheating.

The other change that I would like to see would be an increase in turning speed while deployed. This could be balanced out with reduced mobility in turret mode, but right now the turning speed is so slow that the mech is unable to adjust its aim to any threat that isn't directly in front of it before it becomes too late. It could take the form of an ability or an item, but I would rather have the mech be completely unable to move while in turret mode if it means that the turning speed could be improved.

#13 Zeshi

Zeshi

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 605 posts

Posted November 11 2012 - 11:21 PM

They are fine as is (except for brawler turret mode)
Posted Image

#14 Seyren

Seyren

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 3 posts

Posted November 11 2012 - 11:33 PM

I agree about the turret mode - it feels totally useless as it is.

I'm also disappointed about how weedy the Brawler's flak cannon is. Even at point-blank range, it feels like a peashooter compared to the Assault Rifle.

#15 Enryoki

Enryoki

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 49 posts
  • LocationSaint-Petersburg, Russia

Posted November 12 2012 - 05:29 AM

Thanks for the reply SEEKER1019.
You are right.
But I still have a same opinion.
Rocketeers are not finished yet. At least low hp and useless turret mode.
Heavy weapons must be, in fact, heavy.. slow and powerful, and its not finished too.
Maybe, heat cannon and repeater needs to be changed to 2 another weapons.
For example heat cannon - tank cannon. Just simple giant weapon that deals splash explosive damage using heavy ammo.
Maybe repeater can be changed to something... assault rifle like weapon.

Heat Cannon is like sniping rifle now.
It's not a CANNON.
Explosions are like after throwing stone into the sand and damage is not dealing on some area around hit.
Thats my opinion.

#16 Saunders

Saunders

    Game Designer

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 148 posts

Posted November 12 2012 - 11:13 AM

For the next beta you'll see some nice updates to Turret Mode  :D
David Saunders | Game Designer on HAWKEN @ Adhesive Games

#17 OddaC

OddaC

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 79 posts
  • LocationThe wastes, waiting for the revolution...

Posted November 12 2012 - 11:43 AM

I find C-class mechs to be big targets for my A and B classes at the moment, and the underwhelming firepower make them unplayable for me. If A-classes were to take a slight health nerf, and C-classes to take a slight health boost, that would be grand. Heavy mechs should also do more damage than lighter classes, or at the very least be able to fire weapons longer before overheat. These will alleviate the poor mobility and make them much more viable. Brawler at the moment is completely pointless to me right now thanks to Assault in general, along with the questionable turret mode.

Then, in my A-class, I would have to actually think before engaging one, rather than going 'ooo, free kill!' :D

#18 Enryoki

Enryoki

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 49 posts
  • LocationSaint-Petersburg, Russia

Posted November 12 2012 - 12:02 PM

View Post[ADH]Saunders, on November 12 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

For the next beta you'll see some nice updates to Turret Mode  :D

Salute !!!

#19 Tijgerbos

Tijgerbos

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts

Posted November 12 2012 - 12:21 PM

Well immune against bullets when ability is used, I wouldnt advice. that would outbalance the game, and for it is hard to get around the mech in most of the maps.
oke, his weapon damage could be a bit higher.

remember, it is fun to make the mech you love like a god mode mech, but that isnt fun for other players who dont use the class. I use sniper class almost all the time and sometimes assault.

Rocket mech should indeed be more deathly, the rockets and other weapons it can use are way to low powered. I played with it ones a couple of deaths and then switched back to sniper.

But I agree with Oddac on that in close combat I have it hard with my sniper against a heavy, also sometimes from a distance when that player is good.
At the moment I hate the lightweight classes the most with my sniper ^^ they are just really fast and maybe a bit overpowered in there guns.

#20 SickDownlink

SickDownlink

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 120 posts
  • LocationCA

Posted November 12 2012 - 12:24 PM

View PostEnryoki, on November 11 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:



P.S. Ofcourse snipers are the most powerful in dealing damage too, but in fact they just CAN NOT kill Heavy mech in turret mode from front with BULLETS.

LOL

Edited by SickDownlink, November 12 2012 - 12:24 PM.

10000100010010010011101000101000 : SickDownlink
Posted Image




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users