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Hellfire Missiles Improvement


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#1 USM999

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Posted April 02 2014 - 11:18 AM

It's quite sad that it makes me feel some regret of ever buying the Merncerary Bundle only to realize that I am only using 3 of the mechs that I have purchased. It's even sadder that the only class that has missiles is practically broken and needs to be fixed.

Hellfire Missiles Is Broken
I have pretty much read across the forums that the Hellfire Missiles are not even being used like how they are supposed to be intended. It's basically used as a missile shotgun instead of an actual smart missile. The lock on feature is practically broken and needs to be fixed. I can barely kill any players with it and it is basically a tampon cannon that barely does any damage.

I am kind of better off not even using the lock on feature at all and just use it to spray at random.

Short Version - Problems
+ Lock on is too slow and range is too short and doesn't lock on if enemy is close.
+ Missiles do little damage. Tampon shotgun.
+ I wait 6 seconds to reload. 4 second to lock on. 6-8 second to reach the target.
+ The missiles are retarded and aim at the wall instead of the enemy.
+ I use up all of my fuel to lift myself to get enough distance to lock on and fire only once.
+ I have to look up or sideways at an angle to curve the missiles and hopefully they reach the target or miss.

Long Version - Problems
Whenever I lock on I have to waste time to wait until it the lock confirms it,then the enemy hears a lock on noise,then I fire,the enemy takes cover before my missiles are even 1/3 of their way towards their target,then they either hit the target and do little damage or only a fraction of the missiles make it because they hit the corner of some wall or object or they hit the hill or wall the enemy is behind in.

Solution
+ Increased damage or more missiles.
+ Missiles need to be smarter and dodge walls more.
+ Faster speed.
+ Less reload time.
+ Less lock on time.
+ More range both short and long.
+ Missiles need to curve more and allow to shoot backwards.
+ Less random missile trajectory and more of a helix shot.

Like I said before I basically use the missiles like a tampon shotgun to just simply scatter and do more damage. I can't even depend on the lock on to serve it's purpose.

That pretty much sums up the situation with this weapon. It makes me regret ever buying the bundle only to realize that I feel kind of cheated to get more quantity than quality. I should have just bought the best mechs individually instead.

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#2 PlagueDoctor

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Posted April 02 2014 - 11:38 AM

Hi, I've been using Hellfires since alpha.

View PostUSM999, on April 02 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

Short Version - Problems
+ Lock on is too slow and range is too short and doesn't lock on if enemy is close.
+ Missiles do little damage. Tampon shotgun.
+ I wait 6 seconds to reload. 4 second to lock on. 6-8 second to reach the target.
+ The missiles are retarded and aim at the wall instead of the enemy.
+ I use up all of my fuel to lift myself to get enough distance to lock on and fire only once.
+ I have to look up or sideways at an angle to curve the missiles and hopefully they reach the target or miss.

-Lock on is slow, yes, but its guaranteed 111 damage it mid range if in the open. It works well in hallways too.
-Damage is low, because its homing. Don't use hellfires if you're going for raw damage. Go with a TOW mech.
-Again, the weapon isn't made for doing raw damage. Its for area control. People are more afraid of the idea that missiles are coming for them than the damage they deliver. Use this to force Sharpshooters behind cover to move forward (for example)
-The homing is finicky, yes. You need to learn how to use their homing delay to get a better angle.
- Thats the problem with a weapon that takes the shortest route to an enemy.

View PostUSM999, on April 02 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

Long Version - Problems
Whenever I lock on I have to waste time to wait until it the lock confirms it,then the enemy hears a lock on noise,then I fire,the enemy takes cover before my missiles are even 1/3 of their way towards their target,then they either hit the target and do little damage or only a fraction of the missiles make it because they hit the corner of some wall or object or they hit the hill or wall the enemy is behind in.

Yes, its a problem that they lose a lot of their punch by just traveling to the enemy. Yes, thats an issue with them in their current iteration. But the fact that it forces your enemy behind cover is kind of the point of the hellfires. People play differently with hellfires on the field. I recommend sticking to Objective modes, like missile assault and siege, rather than playing DM modes.

View PostUSM999, on April 02 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

Solution
+ Increased damage or more missiles.
+ Missiles need to be smarter and dodge walls more.
+ Faster speed.
+ Less reload time.
+ Less lock on time.
+ More range both short and long.
+ Missiles need to curve more and allow to shoot backwards.
+ Less random missile trajectory and more of a helix shot.

- It doesn't need more damage. (well, some, but not a lot)
- No. Absolutely not. Thats straight up unfair.
- Yeah, I suppose this could work, but again that would make them take a hit to their tracking.
- I think their reload is fine as is.
- I think their lock time is fine as is.
- Its a mid-long range weapon. They aren't meant for homing at point blank. You should be dumbfiring them in CQC, if you use them at all.
- Why would you want to shoot backwards?
- I agree with this, But their spread is consistent even if their individual trajectory isnt.


Thanks for reading! I hope it cleared up some of your concerns.


I think it is 1000's of money. IT IS 1000,s OF MONEY!!!.


#3 spinele5s

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Posted April 02 2014 - 11:49 AM

your doing it wrong.

#4 Anichkov3

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Posted April 02 2014 - 11:50 AM

NERF NERF HELLFIRE

#5 USM999

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Posted April 02 2014 - 11:54 AM

View PostPlagueDoctor, on April 02 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

Hi, I've been using Hellfires since alpha.

You obviously have not played Battlefield Bad Company 2 with the use of the tracer + RPG. You can lock on and the RPG is smart enough to follow it's target. I can assure you that if this technology is advanced enough to repair mechs in only a few seconds then we can definitely have missiles smart enough to dodge simple obstacles.

Edited by USM999, April 02 2014 - 11:54 AM.

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#6 Valimer

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Posted April 02 2014 - 11:54 AM

What I'm seeing is a complete overhaul of this weapon. When you're trying to balance something it's better to adjust as little as possible so as to not tip the teeter-totter over to the other side, so to speak. Applying all these factors at the same time may not yield the result you're actually looking for. It sounds like with all these changes they would be over powered.

The only change I would make is having the damage flat across range, because it jsut makes sense for a missle to do the same damage at all ranges.

#7 PlagueDoctor

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Posted April 02 2014 - 11:55 AM

View PostUSM999, on April 02 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

View PostPlagueDoctor, on April 02 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

Hi, I've been using Hellfires since alpha.

You obviously have not played Battlefield Bad Company 2 with the use of the tracer + RPG. You can lock on and the RPG is smart enough to follow it's target. I can assure you that if this technology is advanced enough to repair mechs in only a few seconds then we can definitely have missiles smart enough to dodge simple obstacles.

Right, but game balance > (future) realism.


I think it is 1000's of money. IT IS 1000,s OF MONEY!!!.


#8 USM999

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Posted April 02 2014 - 12:02 PM

View PostValimer, on April 02 2014 - 11:54 AM, said:

What I'm seeing is a complete overhaul of this weapon. When you're trying to balance something it's better to adjust as little as possible so as to not tip the teeter-totter over to the other side, so to speak. Applying all these factors at the same time may not yield the result you're actually looking for. It sounds like with all these changes they would be over powered.

The only change I would make is having the damage flat across range, because it jsut makes sense for a missle to do the same damage at all ranges.

They were basically suggestions since I wanted to give out as many opportunities as possible.

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#9 Zdragow

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Posted April 02 2014 - 12:16 PM

I'm a Hellfire mech pilot, and I think Hellfires are just fine.

The Bruiser and Rocketeer are categorized as Suppression mechs, anyways. They aren't supposed to instantly kill anything and everything they see. These two mech fills their roles gloriously.

#10 renynzea

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Posted April 02 2014 - 12:41 PM

I don't have an issue with the hellfires.  They are excellent for medium range, and doubly effective if you use the Bruiser as a support mech, to tag-team the enemy.  The fear of lock-on alone is enough to make some people panic.  When they do hit (which isn't that hard if you only fire at targets who have been flushed out into the open by another mech) they deal an absurd amount of damage.  Also pretty good for blind firing in tunnels against other mechs.  Overall, decent weapon.  Prefer it to the TOW, as you have to be really good at predicting where your enemy is going with the TOW to get a hit.  Hellfire missiles, not so much.

If you want guaranteed hits you are better off with the Sharpshooter or Reaper.  No warning on the sabot rifle, and near instant travel time to target.

#11 Bazookagofer

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Posted April 02 2014 - 12:44 PM

I think your playing it wrong... it not the best weapon but it isn't as bad as you say.

(For that it would need an overhaul so it can stay in one place, as of now all we get is nerfing HF into ground and than buffing it to the OP and then we got a transition era ... you could fix this whole problem with a revamp but alas, devs too scared too do that while other games sometimes revamp stuff if necessary... in this case i think it necessary but whatever)

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#12 PlagueDoctor

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Posted April 02 2014 - 01:05 PM

Hellfires don't need a numbers buff. They need a functionality change to become more than lock on dude then fire weapons. Umbre suggested using the abliity to paint a place on the ground, then when you fired it would go there. I'm not the biggest fan of that idea, but perhaps in conjunction with the current lock system it could work.

IE: lock for 111 damage, paint ground for ??? damage (I'd suggest an area larger than the current spread, to compensate), and dumb fire.


I think it is 1000's of money. IT IS 1000,s OF MONEY!!!.


#13 Valimer

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Posted April 02 2014 - 01:18 PM

View PostPlagueDoctor, on April 02 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:

Hellfires don't need a numbers buff. They need a functionality change to become more than lock on dude then fire weapons. Umbre suggested using the abliity to paint a place on the ground, then when you fired it would go there. I'm not the biggest fan of that idea, but perhaps in conjunction with the current lock system it could work.

IE: lock for 111 damage, paint ground for ??? damage (I'd suggest an area larger than the current spread, to compensate), and dumb fire.

I don't know I think the lock on missles sounds appealing, this paint the ground idea could be suitable for another new weapon though. Sounds interesting.

#14 EliteShooter

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Posted April 02 2014 - 01:23 PM

So you want to buff the hellfires basically ...




















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#15 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted April 02 2014 - 02:27 PM

I'd listen to Plague on this. He's one of the absolute most experienced Hellfire users in the community.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

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#16 Bazookagofer

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Posted April 02 2014 - 02:31 PM

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on April 02 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:

I'd listen to Plague on this. He's one of the absolute most experienced Hellfire users in the community.
Unfortunately we are not going to get a functionality change because the devs don't like the idea of "revamp" even if the community wants something "revamped", and the worst part is if something NEEDS a revamp we still dont get it  ... remember the time when the forums were screaming for tech having "skill shot heals" and all we received were number adjustments...

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#17 PlagueDoctor

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Posted April 02 2014 - 02:34 PM

View PostBazookagofer, on April 02 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on April 02 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:

I'd listen to Plague on this. He's one of the absolute most experienced Hellfire users in the community.
Unfortunately we are not going to get a functionality change because the devs don't like the idea of "revamp" even if the community wants something "revamped", and the worst part is if something NEEDS a revamp we still dont get it  ... remember the time when the forums were screaming for tech having "skill shot heals" and all we received were number adjustments...

The hellfires weren't always like they are now. The only reason they are is because SOMEBODY *hint hint* was real loud about it.


I think it is 1000's of money. IT IS 1000,s OF MONEY!!!.


#18 Trych

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Posted April 02 2014 - 02:48 PM

View PostUSM999, on April 02 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

+ I wait 6 seconds to reload. 4 second to lock on. 6-8 second to reach the target.

No, no you don't.

ideas are bad


#19 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted April 02 2014 - 02:52 PM

View PostUSM999, on April 02 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

I wait 6 seconds to reload. 4 second to lock on. 6-8 second to reach the target.
I just noticed this.
You may want to invest in a watch, or if you have one, a new one because yours is clearly not working properly.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

The Sinful Infil HEAT Cannon Hustler, Cloaking and Smoking, C-Class Swagger, Ballin' n' Brawlin'


#20 Planerunner

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Posted April 02 2014 - 02:55 PM

View PostPlagueDoctor, on April 02 2014 - 02:34 PM, said:

View PostBazookagofer, on April 02 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on April 02 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:

I'd listen to Plague on this. He's one of the absolute most experienced Hellfire users in the community.
Unfortunately we are not going to get a functionality change because the devs don't like the idea of "revamp" even if the community wants something "revamped", and the worst part is if something NEEDS a revamp we still dont get it  ... remember the time when the forums were screaming for tech having "skill shot heals" and all we received were number adjustments...

The hellfires weren't always like they are now. The only reason they are is because SOMEBODY *hint hint* was real loud about it.

The devs certainly listen to the community, yes. But even they have limits to what they will do and how far they will bend. I highly doubt they will revamp Hellfires which are, frankly, pitch perfect for their role: SUPPRESSION ARTILLERY. Stop treating Hellfires like a shotgun. Use it like it was meant to: as a piece of artillery.

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