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What Hawken Closed beta 3 has given us.


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#1 Necro

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Posted December 07 2012 - 01:30 PM

This is sort of an archive of the most discussed things in CB3

I think I got just about everything but I may have missed some. If there are some highly discussed topics I missed let me know and i'll add them.


Items:
Many players are divided on the re-spawning of items. Some view it as a nice reward for staying alive some view it as making the game easier. Many players feel items need to re-eneter balancing as right now there are 3 clear winners. MG turret, EMP, and the HE charge. Link

Weapons:
Vulcan:
Everyone seems to agree that the vulcan was nerfed too much and even after the patch mid beta some still believe it needs a buff somewhere else. possibly in the heat management.
HEAT:
There are some worries about this weapon becoming too good in the hands of a skilled player.
Slug:
Most players believe it's been nerfed too much and needs to be closer to CB2
Sabot:
Most players believe it's been nerfed too much and needs to be closer to CB2
EOC repeater:
Overall needs a buff or small redesign. Link
Mini-flak:
Many believe it may need a small dmage/RoF nerf.


Pivor is too op:
Nerf him. Link

Botters:
Hey...we don't bot ok?! Link

Dancing mechs:
We need them. Link

End game:
There are some worries about very skilled player becoming too good, this game greatly rewards skill and some players are already almost un-killable,

C class:
They seem to have a higher learning curve for some players and definitely fits in a support role. Link

Siege mode:
Many people do not like the changes with siege mode. Players feel that the EU gathering phase should encourage combat and not just trucking EU. many feel that the battleships in this mode need to be redesigned in one way or another. Also having 3 health ticks encourages people to keep fighting after the 1st team gets off a ship. Link Link Link

Optimizations:
Way to low I think the maximum increase to dps while level 20 with weapons levels, internals and optimizations is a tad bit under 10%. Also include more options that are more in-depth rather then just percentages possibly. Link

Turret mode:
Needs buffed or Replaced or altered in some other drastic way because it leaves you as a sitting target who usually dies very quickly.

Game Performance:
Many players are experienceing low FPS or high ping when they should not be.

Prototype mech:
Many players are disappointed with the C class mech that is being rewarded and wish there was more of a choice along with a code for activating the xp/hc rewards Link
(I just want to inform everyone that the devs quickly addressed this issue so no one thinks other wise from my post.)

Rage quitters:
Most view this as fault of the faulty matchmaker but many still think something should be done to deter this behavour but nothing that impedes on innocent players. Link

Matchmaking:
There are TONS of threads on this issue. As it stands it needs to divide payers by skill, fill games that have just started, stop putting people in empty rooms, stop putting people in even games, even out uneven games, stop placing people in almost finished games.

Classes:
Bruiser:
May be under-powered in some situations and it's ability's feel a bit weak. Link

Sharpshooter:
Many feel it is now underpowered and needs a buff somewhere. Link Link

Scout:
A pretty well designed class. The weapons on it may need a small nerf but overall it has nice balance. The name doesn't fit it very well however. Link

Rocketeers:
Many say it is a noob friendly mech because of it's lock on capability's  It may need a fire rate or heat increase on the seeker. Other suggestions have been given also like half-life missiles.
Link

Edited by Necro, December 10 2012 - 06:31 PM.


#2 Akrium

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Posted December 07 2012 - 01:46 PM

I can say there has been a response on the Sharpie weapons. Better accuracy across the board and slightly more dmg if I remember the dev post right. Could just be accuracy though. Someone that loves SS probably knows the exact thread but I was just skimming it after pages of talk.

On optimizations they have said they are reworking the trees and such and CBE3 was more along the lines of curbing the massive distance between a lvl 20 and a lvl 0 while they implement the new stuff. So you will see a better result hopefully in OB, when ever they drop the new stuff.

But that is about all i know about the outcomes of everything we've posted on w/ our concerns.

#3 Skylead

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Posted December 07 2012 - 01:48 PM

Good collection +1, also I like the new sig.

I'm glad that optimizations are going to get some love, I'm all for letting level 0s compete with level 20s, but right now they are so weak that specializing doesn't let you build the mechs for a niche situation/playstyle.

Edited by Skylead, December 07 2012 - 01:50 PM.


#4 h0B0

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Posted December 07 2012 - 02:00 PM

good work.

Click me! I dare you.

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View Post[HWK]HUGHES, on March 15 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

Oh don't always listen to h0B0. Lol.


#5 Zyrusticae

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Posted December 07 2012 - 02:15 PM

With regards to optimizations, I think nerfing the fuzzy bunny out of them was going the wrong way; simply separating high-level players from low-level ones should work well enough (provided there are enough players to fill the rooms in the first place).

But it's good to hear they're being revamped. I just hope they're actually meaningful.

#6 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted December 07 2012 - 03:29 PM

View PostZyrusticae, on December 07 2012 - 02:15 PM, said:

With regards to optimizations, I think nerfing the fuzzy bunny out of them was going the wrong way; simply separating high-level players from low-level ones should work well enough (provided there are enough players to fill the rooms in the first place).
To hell with that.
It would still mean that there would be a fair amount of vertical progression. Matchmaking would be a mess, since you could have multiple mechs of greatly differing levels. It just doesn't work. Firefall had that sort of system, and they had to throw it out because it didn't work.

Edited by AsianJoyKiller, December 07 2012 - 03:29 PM.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

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#7 Floofus

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Posted December 07 2012 - 04:04 PM

Very good summary. Especially with the Bruiser, since I main the Bruiser (enjoy it too), but I always get smashed in a 1v1. Also, lvl 20 'prestige' items, good post.
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#8 Cpt_Kill_Jack

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Posted December 07 2012 - 04:11 PM

Hardware issues:

PhysX particles do not enable PhysX on secondary GPU.

Engine limitations:

Somewhere in the Engine its still set to have a max of 90fps this can be fixed and opened up to 120+ if you change a setting on your end.

#9 Decoy101x

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Posted December 07 2012 - 04:11 PM

some people will just be better than others. the quicker they stop trying to please everyone via the matchmaker and mech's / tech trees  the better they are. STOP catering towards the crybaby casual player.
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#10 Cpt_Kill_Jack

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Posted December 07 2012 - 04:13 PM

Matchmaking has never really worked on the PC. Its always about what server your friends or clan plays on and you regular it. The Server browser is a must for the PC and always will be. For Games that work on the Consoles matchmaking is the best thing, it simply doesnt work on the PC.

#11 ArnieF4440

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Posted December 07 2012 - 05:01 PM

Nice collection mate :)
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#12 DESMO

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Posted December 07 2012 - 06:09 PM

Wow, great summary, Necro!

As for siege points I think two is enough.  By the first point you know which team has the better players whether you're outnumbered or not.  By the second point you know who wants it more.  With even teams 2 siege points can take 30+ minutes.  A 2 point system is also used in Kendo/Kumdo to determine the winner; because if you can hit the guy twice you're either better or more lucky.  Once that's determined the third point is unnecessary - and time to mix up the teams.

#13 Zyrusticae

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Posted December 07 2012 - 07:02 PM

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on December 07 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

To hell with that.
It would still mean that there would be a fair amount of vertical progression. Matchmaking would be a mess, since you could have multiple mechs of greatly differing levels. It just doesn't work. Firefall had that sort of system, and they had to throw it out because it didn't work.
But then, League of Legends has the same system and it works just fine.

Mind you, its player base is probably an order of magnitude larger than Hawken's, but it doesn't mean they shouldn't try.

View PostDecoy101x, on December 07 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

some people will just be better than others. the quicker they stop trying to please everyone via the matchmaker and mech's / tech trees  the better they are. STOP catering towards the crybaby casual player.

View PostCpt_Kill_Jack, on December 07 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

Matchmaking has never really worked on the PC. Its always about what server your friends or clan plays on and you regular it. The Server browser is a must for the PC and always will be. For Games that work on the Consoles matchmaking is the best thing, it simply doesnt work on the PC.
You guys are being irrational. The whole reason a game like League of Legends gets millions of players is because they treat their casual players well and use decent matchmaking.

But of course, you guys aren't making the game, and you don't have to worry about paying the bills, so I understand your concerns are completely different from someone who actually wants to see the game succeed...

#14 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted December 07 2012 - 07:14 PM

View PostZyrusticae, on December 07 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on December 07 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

To hell with that.
It would still mean that there would be a fair amount of vertical progression. Matchmaking would be a mess, since you could have multiple mechs of greatly differing levels. It just doesn't work. Firefall had that sort of system, and they had to throw it out because it didn't work.
But then, League of Legends has the same system and it works just fine.

Mind you, its player base is probably an order of magnitude larger than Hawken's, but it doesn't mean they shouldn't try.
I like the part where you completely ignore the fact that they are entirely different games with entirely different goals in what baseline gameplay should be like.
You also forget to address the fact that Hawken devs DO NOT WANT vertical progression.

Quote

You guys are being irrational. The whole reason a game like League of Legends gets millions of players is because they treat their casual players well and use decent matchmaking.

But of course, you guys aren't making the game, and you don't have to worry about paying the bills, so I understand your concerns are completely different from someone who actually wants to see the game succeed...
So you are saying that using matchmaking systems that have been proven to work well for over a decade is a bad idea?
Also, you imply that matchmaking is the sole reason LoL gains/retains players. That's completely silly, and ignores tons of other factors.

And to address the "you guys aren't making the game", stop relying on fallacious arguments. Trying to put words in other peoples' mouths is a stupid thing to do, especially when they've said nothing of the sort. That reflects badly on you, and shows you can't support your argument well through reason and logic.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

The Sinful Infil HEAT Cannon Hustler, Cloaking and Smoking, C-Class Swagger, Ballin' n' Brawlin'


#15 Necro

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Posted December 07 2012 - 07:16 PM

Just to let everyone know some of these topics have been addressed by the devs and i'm aware of that.
(like optimizations and the vanguard initiative problems)

I was going to list the developers responses to these but I feel this should just be more of a collection of the most prominent problems so we to can look over them later and see what is fixed during open beta.

I will most likely follow up this post sometime during open beta with what has been fixed and what may still need to be addressed from closed beta 3. If someone feels like working with me on compiling CB2 and CB1 that would make this post all that much better!

(and i know some jokes are in here but it just makes it more fun to read :P)

Edited by Necro, December 07 2012 - 07:17 PM.


#16 Cpt_Kill_Jack

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Posted December 07 2012 - 07:21 PM

View PostZyrusticae, on December 07 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on December 07 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

To hell with that.
It would still mean that there would be a fair amount of vertical progression. Matchmaking would be a mess, since you could have multiple mechs of greatly differing levels. It just doesn't work. Firefall had that sort of system, and they had to throw it out because it didn't work.
But then, League of Legends has the same system and it works just fine.

Mind you, its player base is probably an order of magnitude larger than Hawken's, but it doesn't mean they shouldn't try.

View PostDecoy101x, on December 07 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

some people will just be better than others. the quicker they stop trying to please everyone via the matchmaker and mech's / tech trees  the better they are. STOP catering towards the crybaby casual player.

View PostCpt_Kill_Jack, on December 07 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

Matchmaking has never really worked on the PC. Its always about what server your friends or clan plays on and you regular it. The Server browser is a must for the PC and always will be. For Games that work on the Consoles matchmaking is the best thing, it simply doesnt work on the PC.
You guys are being irrational. The whole reason a game like League of Legends gets millions of players is because they treat their casual players well and use decent matchmaking.

But of course, you guys aren't making the game, and you don't have to worry about paying the bills, so I understand your concerns are completely different from someone who actually wants to see the game succeed...

I of course mean mean within the realm of generas which is in this case FPS. Matchmaking has never really worked on PC FPS games. We dont even like EAs Web based server browser because its not an ingame browser.

As for your comment about not making the game, true i have not made this game. But I am a game developer. I know what it takes to make games and I know what it means to get good feedback and testing having tested many games myself and talking with many developers.


I help develop games with Limn Interactive a just starting Independent game studio.

Edited by Cpt_Kill_Jack, December 07 2012 - 07:23 PM.


#17 Roundlay

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Posted December 07 2012 - 08:50 PM

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on December 07 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

So you are saying that using matchmaking systems that have been proven to work well for over a decade is a bad idea?
Also, you imply that matchmaking is the sole reason LoL gains/retains players. That's completely silly, and ignores tons of other factors.

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on December 07 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

Trying to put words in other peoples' mouths is a stupid thing to do, especially when they've said nothing of the sort. That reflects badly on you, and shows you can't support your argument well through reason and logic.

Class.

#18 Thermite

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Posted December 07 2012 - 08:52 PM

I love how the Grenadier, is not mentioned in these discussions, yet you will never find this class on the top of any leaderboards.

I admit it is a support mech and should not expect much, but it would be nice to see a little more mobility.

#19 JuiceBox

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Posted December 07 2012 - 09:29 PM

CB3 gave me a headache and a lack of ANY motivation to play.

Honestly I played more in Alpha3 an CB1 than I did in CB2 and CB3. That is how much the matchmaking system bothered me.

#20 DarkPulse

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Posted December 08 2012 - 05:53 AM

View PostCpt_Kill_Jack, on December 07 2012 - 04:11 PM, said:

Engine limitations:

Somewhere in the Engine its still set to have a max of 90fps this can be fixed and opened up to 120+ if you change a setting on your end.
Will not happen. Replication goes out the window if it goes much higher.
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