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Hawken TTK (time to kill) poll


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Poll: TTK (time to kill) Poll (161 member(s) have cast votes)

Where do you believe Hawken's AVERAGE TTK should be?

  1. 1 second (BOOM HEADSHOT) (3 votes [1.86%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.86%

  2. 2 seconds (Unreal baby!) (3 votes [1.86%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.86%

  3. 3 seconds (22 votes [13.66%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.66%

  4. 5 seconds (just take a little off the top) (56 votes [34.78%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.78%

  5. 7 seconds (current Hawken) (77 votes [47.83%])

    Percentage of vote: 47.83%

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#1 Interrobang87

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Posted January 30 2014 - 10:13 AM

Watched the Cockpit recording from last night and tbh it scared the hell out of me

thinking in a vacuum, thinking in a vacuum, thinking in a vacuum, thinking in a vacuum...

So I wanted to see what you, the community, thought about what duration of TTK you would find enjoyable
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#2 Exeon

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Posted January 30 2014 - 10:23 AM

I request another option, I do not know what I want.

View PostDew, on April 04 2014 - 01:15 PM, said:

There's a difference between making the hoop 14 feet high and telling all the players that you have to wait for half a second after running before you can shoot the ball.


#3 WarPig

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Posted January 30 2014 - 10:46 AM

It does scare me as well but I think the overall change across the board to everything is the hard part to get into peoples brains.

I talk to a lot of players and get into topics/ discussions and hear the things they are saying with concern or the others who have experienced it and say it's really not that bad. I can only try to be there as a comfort for people and give some input because I really don't know how this will play out on live...

I'd like to think the entire system being re looked at , balanced out , faster mechs, faster TTk just making a much more skill based shooter with more speed but still maintaining the mechs and core aspects of the game is something that I will be happy with.

The point came up last night about how people complained about burst dmg being too much etc.. not having a chance...
so now they are all asking , well isn't this the same thing we just got done complaining about ?

short answer - no.

The new balance they put into the game is meant to reward you for doing well and being good . If you wanna face plant 3 mechs well honestly I think you deserve to be insta gibbed for being stupid. Every mech is going to be in a position where dying is something that CAN and WILL happen... no more IM SUPERMAN 1 guy show boating or running the game on other team.. you now have to work together provide better gameplay etc..

This is info that has been passed on to me from dev's & from PLAYERS. I was def. not excited about ascension and damn near walked away from Hawken with complete disgust but the way things are going and how much EFFORT is being poured into making a game to take care of more skilled players, and build a tighter comp scene to support I am now more excited than I ever been I hope everyone here can enjoy it as well. I'm sure that won't be the case and I'm sorry to those who will walk away sad or angry but all I can say is it's still not "released" and they are gonna adjust things even after the patch hits so hang in there and just be smart and give good feedback .

Great Poll idea, Felt like adding some of my thoughts on it.
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#4 DerMax

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Posted January 30 2014 - 10:54 AM

Can we just wait for the patch and see what it brings to the table, without all this intellectual masturbation?

#5 Sylhiri

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Posted January 30 2014 - 11:00 AM

View PostDerMax, on January 30 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

Can we just wait for the patch and see what it brings to the table, without all this intellectual masturbation?

You like it, don't lie.

[13:14] <nonsiccus_work> uh oh

there's gravy in my keyboard

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[11:18] <+shosca> if you wanna play ar, go play zerker
[11:18] <Hyginos> and if you want to play zerker, go smc
[11:19] <someone> if you want to play sustain, please go and die in hell


#6 Zaxik

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Posted January 30 2014 - 11:01 AM

I didn't watch the cockpit thing (wth is so scary there?), but my opinion is that current Hawken is fine as is. I don't mind very long TTK, it places a huge importance on teamplay. Your team can either take 25% health away from every enemy and effectively do nothing, or you can all focus the same target and kill enemies one by one.

Long TTK has also a funny "side effect": critically wounded player can try to retreat, most probably luring at least one enemy who sees nothing, but the small healthbar and wants the kill - TTK is sooo long that many people, including me, will often take the risk and just rush at whoever has lowest health.

I remember that one testing patch when devs increased armor by flat 100HP for every mech, great times....
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#7 Hocisern

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Posted January 30 2014 - 11:05 AM

View PostInterrobang87, on January 30 2014 - 10:13 AM, said:

thinking in a vacuum, thinking in a vacuum, thinking in a vacuum, thinking in a vacuum...

You mean like this? :)
Spoiler


#8 VacuumTube

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Posted January 30 2014 - 11:19 AM

View PostWarPig, on January 30 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

faster mechs, faster TTk just making a much more skill based shooter
ye, i heard van say that, and  how  Xacuis died a lot from random flak tows, game will also be much more randon,
and death rewards still sound retarded to me,  surprised you guys didn't touch on that one.

#9 Preternatural

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Posted January 30 2014 - 11:30 AM

I like current TTK.

One of the best things about Hawken is that there are no "BOOM HEADSHOT INSTA-KILL" deaths. I like my duels to be lengthy, not just a few shots before the other person dies. I feel like the current TTK gives both pilots the time to turn the fight around, instead of the win going to the person who starts shooting/hitting first.

Edited by Preternatural, January 30 2014 - 01:59 PM.

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#10 zorin1

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Posted January 30 2014 - 11:36 AM

I'm already dying a lot in a match.  I'm just a little better than one kill per death.  I just have a feeling that with the 2-3 seconds time to kill that I will be dying more.  If you are dying once every 30 seconds, a lot of your time will be wasted on reentering the game.  Plus if you start dying more you are going to be less likely to engage, so everyone will be sitting back.

I just think that I will get frustrated with the game if I am killed a lot. Two flak and a TOW will kill a small mech is what I heard.  That is only three button pushes, if you can land them on a small mech.

Wait and see how it goes.

Zorin

#11 Ker4u

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Posted January 30 2014 - 11:46 AM

We are fuzzy bunny moving in circles,
increase ttk/decrease ttk,
increase heat/ decrease heat,  
decrees speed/ increase speed,
add tuning/ remove tuning,
clearly devs know what they are doing and what the consequences will be.

- lok'tar ogar -


#12 flimsy

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Posted January 30 2014 - 12:09 PM

I think my concern here is less with the individual changes and more with the scope of what's is going on. The potential pitfalls here are the same as Ascension: that too much is changing too fast, and ADH doesn't have the developer resources to fix everything in the event that the player base at large hates these changes. This just seems like a very risky move from a development perspective, and I'm not confident that the community is patient enough to wait while the inevitable problems are ironed out of yet another set of sweeping revisions.

I have other concerns with the content of the patch, but the real concern here is that shaking up a complex system runs a real risk of seeding hidden optimal strategies, severe balance problems and just straight up bugs. You'll forgive me if I'm not particularly confident about the QA process currently in place. On top of all of that, the development cycle is very slow and fixed, so whatever happens here we're committed for a while. If it goes wrong we're stuck with it.

This is something that should really have been released to the player base at large as an alternate build. I know that this is difficult and expensive in terms of infrastructure and development hours, but it's an effective hedge against risk, and right now there's no hedge of any kind. This game cannot ford another ascension-style miscalculation, and despite the confidence of the small group of players who have actually seen the patch, there's a lot in there that makes many of us very uneasy. There's a lot of dismissive talk about how players will get used to whatever changes go into production, but that certainly didn't happen with Ascension, and there's no guarantee it will happen here. The next couple of weeks are probably going to be pretty damn ugly.

#13 Leonhardt

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Posted January 30 2014 - 12:17 PM

TTK is directly linked to weapons damage and health on mechs. Both of those things are easy to change on their end and tbh we will probably see quite a bit of adjustment over time regarding those numbers. The February patch is the start of a "new balancing philosophy" which hearkens back to some of the older game play in Alpha and Close Beta(s).

It may seem scary to a lot of people at first, especially since we can't play it right now, but major changes like this are a requirement to fix the balance problems with the game and to put the fun back into it. I don't think it will detract from team play as much as people like to say, but it certainly won't be as forgiving as it is now.

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#14 dorobo

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Posted January 30 2014 - 12:18 PM

There were drastic changes in the past but maybe this time it's the right thing to do?

#15 MechCraft

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Posted January 30 2014 - 12:24 PM

Difficult to form a valid opinion without all the pieces of the puzzle. Like many players, I'm accustomed to the game's current TTK/combat and remember when many players were adamantly calling for TTK increases, so this news comes as a seemingly unfortunate surprise.

That said, most of us merely have a few fragmented bits of information, which makes it very difficult for us to really see the whole picture. It feels like the devs are knee-jerking and pulling some drastic 180's on the game's development, but without first hand experience it's almost impossible to get a good perspective.

For many players who were not able to participate in the in-house test, this patch brings a sense of foreboding moreso than hope or excitement. None of us want to see Hawken die, but right now the future looks more than a little grey. In the end, though, the patch has been content locked - all we can do is wait, and prepare to brave the oncoming storm.
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#16 Xacius

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Posted January 30 2014 - 12:31 PM

View PostZaxik, on January 30 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

Long TTK has also a funny "side effect": critically wounded player can try to retreat, most probably luring at least one enemy who sees nothing, but the small healthbar and wants the kill - TTK is sooo long that many people, including me, will often take the risk and just rush at whoever has lowest health.

I find that, in many circumstances, by the time you fall back and repair, the enemies you've killed have already respawned.

View PostPreternatural, on January 30 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

I like current TTK.

One of the best things about Hawken is that there are no "BOOM HEADSHOT INSTA-KILL" deaths. I like my duels to be lengthy, not just a few shots before the other person dies. I feel like the current TTK gives both pilots the time to turn the fight around, instead of the win going to the win who starts shooting/hitting first.

Funny enough, in my duels against NotKjell at the in-house testing, our fights sometimes took more than 2 minutes.

View PostVacuumTube, on January 30 2014 - 11:19 AM, said:

View PostWarPig, on January 30 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

faster mechs, faster TTk just making a much more skill based shooter
ye, i heard van say that, and  how  Xacuis died a lot from random flak tows, game will also be much more randon,
and death rewards still sound retarded to me,  surprised you guys didn't touch on that one.

I died a lot, but Van left out how much destruction was left in my wake.  I got two to three times as many kills that I normally do on live, and after adjusting to the new health pools (and playing safer) I was able to stay alive.  The new repair times were really nice (no more 15 seconds to full - about half that tbh).  I remember one instance in specific where I jumped up on a couple people repairing and snagged a quad-kill in 3-4 seconds worth of shooting.  lol.  

I think I went something like 15/1 in the last match, but I was playing SS and hanging back.

Edited by Xacius, January 30 2014 - 12:39 PM.

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#17 Sylhiri

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Posted January 30 2014 - 12:35 PM

TTK would have already been lower with increased speed and unlimited dodges, not entirely sure why lowering the health was necessary.

[13:14] <nonsiccus_work> uh oh

there's gravy in my keyboard

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[11:18] <+shosca> if you wanna play ar, go play zerker
[11:18] <Hyginos> and if you want to play zerker, go smc
[11:19] <someone> if you want to play sustain, please go and die in hell


#18 DerMax

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Posted January 30 2014 - 12:41 PM

View PostSylhiri, on January 30 2014 - 11:00 AM, said:

View PostDerMax, on January 30 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

Can we just wait for the patch and see what it brings to the table, without all this intellectual masturbation?

You like it, don't lie.


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#19 driedjello

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Posted January 30 2014 - 12:50 PM

TTL is one of the most important aspects of this game.  I believe I am summarizing what Hughes said in an interview that in order to make the game fun for the masses this needs to be tuned just right.  If you lower it, you take a step toward the twitch shooter that has kept me out of FPS games until Hawken came along.

Reducing it will be good for the high skilled player.  How many high skilled players are there vs. lower/more casual.  I am talking the people who don't want to spend hours a day practicing for a game that's supposed to be fun, not work.
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#20 FuryMonster

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Posted January 30 2014 - 12:50 PM

less dodge cooldown + no fuel cost  = winning
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