HAWKEN servers are up and our latest minor update is live!
Forgot Password? SUPPORT REDEEM CODE

Jump to content


new siege encourages spawn camping/old version poll


  • Please log in to reply
84 replies to this topic

Poll: siege versions (61 member(s) have cast votes)

which siege mode was the best

  1. Closed Beta 1 (2 votes [3.28%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.28%

  2. Closed Beta 2 (37 votes [60.66%])

    Percentage of vote: 60.66%

  3. Closed Beta 3 (3 votes [4.92%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.92%

  4. Current Version (19 votes [31.15%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.15%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 Spiderz

Spiderz

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 475 posts
  • LocationMarcoola Beach, QLD, AUS

Posted December 13 2012 - 08:43 PM

new siege encourages spawn camping

considering the ship doesn't explode, which is nice on the realism btw.... it means people have to sit in the base to blow up the ship, which means spawn camping is much more common and so are rage quits

this isn't a welcome change because 9/10 players leave the match,

in previous builds of siege the ship struck the base and exploded, leaving all the fresh spawns to run out onto the mid field for more EU, now this is not the case, because the machine guns's now attack the ships, it leaves the gates open for the enemy team to rush the spawn point, this is immediately a poor design choice, it leaves already vulnerable players without a spawn area

i'm point this out because i'm one of those guys, coming into a base and shooting people point blank, saying "something is wrong here"

it shouldn't be this easy....

spawn camping was something that didn't often happen in last builds, it was the final push on health bar 3 to make sure it didn't get shot down, at the crucial moment, if a team was half good you'd never get camped until the very end and that was because you'd failed to hold the AA, so you'd never get camped unless you're already a flimsy team that failed on the mid field, now even half decent teams get camped

spawn camping is very much a regular part of hawken now, this is a problem, we need to introduce these new 2.0 "elements" sooner

Edited by Spiderz, December 13 2012 - 08:48 PM.

DAMN SON! WHERE'D YOU FIND THIS!?
i want keybinding that makes my mech play this tune with acouple twirling beacon lights.
click banner for clan info
Posted Image

#2 Necro

Necro

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,262 posts

Posted December 13 2012 - 10:24 PM

None...can i say none?

They all need to be mixed together into one ball.

Edit:

Also 9/10?

There are 6 players on a team :P

Edited by Necro, December 13 2012 - 10:25 PM.


#3 Gagzila

Gagzila

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 352 posts
  • LocationVIC, Australia

Posted December 13 2012 - 10:57 PM

I haven't even played OB yet and Siege 2.0 sounds shockingly bad just from what I have read in various threads.

I don't understand as so many people posted (& pretty constructively) how bad the CBE3 changes to Siege were and ADH are usually a pretty receptive and accommodating bunch...but instead they ruin the best game mode even more???

I understand we've been testing beta but do others feel that what we played in CBE 1 & 2 (wasn't in Alpha) would ultimately still be the game we would be playing in OB but just with all the content added back in? It just feels like they keep changing the ball game in the last two releases and I can't understand why as it was already great the way it was. I just recently invested $40 (vanguard pack) in Hawken based off the game as I know it...if they keep just randomly (or so it seems) changing major gameplay elements of the game, it won't take long for it to no longer be the game I passionately invested time and money into...which quite frankly the idea of really pisses me off!

Cheers,

Gagzila
Posted Image

#4 EMEUTIER

EMEUTIER

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 348 posts
  • LocationNSW, Australia

Posted December 13 2012 - 11:00 PM

I have to agree with Spiderz,

Only 1 of maybe 20 seige matches actually hit the 30 min mark, the rest of the games were a total steamroll where all the dominating team needed to do was prevent the enemy from even getting out of their base.
Not fun for either team.
Posted Image

#5 Rokth

Rokth

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 21 posts
  • LocationThe Internet

Posted December 13 2012 - 11:07 PM

This is a major problem. Is it too soon to ask for my money back?

#6 AsianJoyKiller

AsianJoyKiller

    Lithium Cellophane Unicorn Salad

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 8,011 posts
  • LocationWI

Posted December 13 2012 - 11:29 PM

According to some of the Steel Killers, NotKjell's competitive CBE3 strategy may still work, which is another mark against this version.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

The Sinful Infil HEAT Cannon Hustler, Cloaking and Smoking, C-Class Swagger, Ballin' n' Brawlin'


#7 Necro

Necro

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,262 posts

Posted December 13 2012 - 11:31 PM

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on December 13 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

According to some of the Steel Killers, NotKjell's competitive CBE3 strategy may still work, which is another mark against this version.
It would take a long time but i could see it because the ship still drops EU.

You would need accurate weapons. All Heats or all SS something like that.

Edited by Necro, December 13 2012 - 11:31 PM.


#8 Inushokin

Inushokin

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 37 posts
  • LocationGrove City, Ohio

Posted December 13 2012 - 11:38 PM

They did say they still had a lot of work to do on it. Chill the pants!

#9 Dracoslayer16

Dracoslayer16

    Advanced Member

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 782 posts

Posted December 13 2012 - 11:59 PM

I think the current system is the best yet BUT the base turrets need to do more damage to the ship.  You shouldn't be able to win the match with only 1 BS.  Right now the BS can take out the base from 2000 to 0 in one go if the enemy is spawn camped enough, I think the base defenses should deal a tid bit more damage to the ship so it doesn't sit around quite so long.
Posted Image

#10 RedVan

RedVan

    Advanced Member

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,250 posts

Posted December 14 2012 - 12:04 AM

The current mode revolves too much around players shooting the battleship.  That just isn't good PvP gameplay, one team shooting AI, the other team shooting the team shooting the AI....  boring and stupid.

#11 DESMO

DESMO

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 129 posts

Posted December 14 2012 - 01:25 AM

Well one good thing with the new version is that bad matches end sooner.  But like Spiderz said, it can get ugly..

View PostSpiderz, on December 13 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

...i'm point this out because i'm one of those guys, coming into a base and shooting people point blank, saying "something is wrong here"
it shouldn't be this easy....

Game is ending, your fangs are out, you chase a low-health enemy into his base and kill him and his repairing buddy.  Lo and behold you are still alive walking around unmolested in the enemy base.  Use a shield to heal up and head to the battlements where your battleship will provide fire support while you fire on the poor bastards.  Sure, this is war and losers die horribly; nevertheless, as a game I think the base defense could be a little better.  Perhaps the one place in Hawken for lasers?

But that doesn't really address the spawn-camping issue in siege mode.  Really, the even matches are quite good but it's more common to end the game at or in the enemy base.  Perhaps that's by design?  At any rate I don't want to make any outlandish suggestions to change what is my favorite game mode, but hope the devs will continue to work out some of the weaknesses in siege mode that have been mentioned in other posts.

#12 Izayoi

Izayoi

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 25 posts

Posted December 14 2012 - 03:19 AM

The new version of Siege is awesome. I absolutely love the changes they made to the overall flow of the gametype.

#13 Gagzila

Gagzila

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 352 posts
  • LocationVIC, Australia

Posted December 14 2012 - 03:28 AM

View PostInushokin, on December 13 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

They did say they still had a lot of work to do on it. Chill the pants!

They DID, A LOT of work on it all through Alpha to Close Beta Event #3! Open Beta Siege 2.0 isn't "more work", it's completely changed the core gameplay of this game mode...it's more like they thought "no one likes our CBE3 changes to Siege but we can't be seen by the community as possibly being wrong so we'll change it again and announce it as a "new and improved" Siege 2.0 game mode in OB! Yeah that works, no one will realise what we've done..."

Or that's the feeling I'm getting since they had a perfectly good game mode in CBE1 & 2 and now its gone through two major changes for some unknown reason and the result as is evident by a lot of other posts, is that it's not for the better :(

View PostDracoslayer16, on December 13 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:

I think the current system is the best yet BUT the base turrets need to do more damage to the ship.  You shouldn't be able to win the match with only 1 BS.  Right now the BS can take out the base from 2000 to 0 in one go if the enemy is spawn camped enough, I think the base defenses should deal a tid bit more damage to the ship so it doesn't sit around quite so long.

We are supposed to be mainly focused on battling enemy mechs for EU and control of the AA, not the battleship...the all team on battleship tactic was a last ditch but very unfavourable option in CBE1&2 versions of siege and it worked great this way.

View PostDESMO, on December 14 2012 - 01:25 AM, said:

Well one good thing with the new version is that bad matches end sooner.

Lengthy matches was one of the great things about Siege originally and made for EPIC matches...and if you wanted a shorter, faster game you played Missile Assault, TDM or DM.

Cheers,

Gagzila
Posted Image

#14 CyanideFuse

CyanideFuse

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 137 posts
  • LocationUK

Posted December 14 2012 - 03:35 AM

I have only played this mode once since OB arrived.

I was quite shocked at how we won the match with one launch taking the full 2000. The other team got backed into their spawn point and couldn't do much.

I enjoyed SM in Beta 2 the most because the teams were full and it felt competitive with some good long matches; I never got a game in Beta 3 so cannot comment on any changes made.

#15 z121231211

z121231211

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 453 posts

Posted December 14 2012 - 03:46 AM

There needs to be an anti-air in the base that'll blow the ship up before it can do 1000 damage.

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on December 13 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

According to some of the Steel Killers, NotKjell's competitive CBE3 strategy may still work, which is another mark against this version.
Not only that, it even feels like you're encouraged to do so.
Desert Fox

#16 Glothrenite

Glothrenite

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 57 posts
  • LocationSt Kilda, Australia

Posted December 14 2012 - 03:55 AM

The current state is not a noticeable improvement over the state it was in at CB2 .. CB3 was horrible.

That you need to stay and kill the ship is a flaw, that you have the option to attack it is good.

Entering the enemy base should present a FAR greater challenge.

The game was much more engaging for me when the energy requirement was higher (750 if i remember correctly) this meant phase one was longer and increased the sense of investment in that ship.

The three point system of CB2 was imo superior to the later 2 point system on CB3 and, I think, somewhat better than the current state of Base HP count.

Aspects that increase the duration of the match should not be viewed as bad, similarly, creating an 'Esport' should not be the goal when developing this game mode.  The goal should instead be a 'fun game'.

Suggestion:  Return to the 3 point system with one addition: If the ship delivers its payload (arrives at the enemy base) at above 50% hp (or some kind of similar special arrival achievement) it scores 2 points instead of 1.  

In a hotly contested game this shouldn't happen very often.

In theory i like the idea of the Base HP count model, i just think the map setup and base defenses don't compliment it.  The turrets should consider the enemy players high priority.  This would mean that diving the enemy base was risky but granted moments where the turrets stopped damaging the ship.  AND turret damage should be higher OR Base HP higher.

Edited by Glothrenite, December 14 2012 - 03:59 AM.

Posted Image

#17 Gagzila

Gagzila

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 352 posts
  • LocationVIC, Australia

Posted December 14 2012 - 04:03 AM

Everyone suggesting "fixes" for the spawn camping should realise these are just band-aid fixes to the real issue, which is that the current iteration of siege simply doesn't work. They already had a great, TESTED version of it in CBE2 that barely anyone had an issue with apart from being a bit long for some people which could have just played any of the 3 other shorter game modes available.

ADH also could have either alongside the normal long one made another shorter siege like mode or once the server browser came back, allow the companies hosting the servers to setup servers with varied mode options such as base health and EU availability to cater for varied player tastes in how they wanted to play the said mode.

Cheers,

Gagzila

Edited by Gagzila, December 14 2012 - 04:05 AM.

Posted Image

#18 Spiderz

Spiderz

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 475 posts
  • LocationMarcoola Beach, QLD, AUS

Posted December 14 2012 - 05:13 AM

View PostNecro, on December 13 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

None...can i say none?

They all need to be mixed together into one ball.

Edit:

Also 9/10?

There are 6 players on a team :P

i didn't literally mean 10 :P  thanks for that necro :P it was the expression sort of thing, i meant "pretty much everyone" :P
DAMN SON! WHERE'D YOU FIND THIS!?
i want keybinding that makes my mech play this tune with acouple twirling beacon lights.
click banner for clan info
Posted Image

#19 KaszaWspraju

KaszaWspraju

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 922 posts
  • LocationPoland

Posted December 14 2012 - 05:20 AM

Another problem with Siege mode:

EU  fills itself over time.

Why devs artificially accelerated pace sige mode. TDM 15 min, now sige mode ends in 7-10 minutes, more or less.

We have auto use iteam and now we have auto fills EU ?

ok, I played the game, sige mode. Three of our team, has collected and delivered EU:
  416
  271
  225
=912
Our total Eu was 1240 - this allowed us to run two ships. We win.

But 1240-912 = 328 free energy. Had the match lasted longer securely that ended on two free full  C-class mech canister. THI IS RIDICULOUS !

INTEL i5-4670K * ASUS Z87-A * GOODRAM DDR3 2x4GB * GIGABYTE GTX 760 OC rev 2.0 * X-Fi XTREME MUSIC * GRADO SR-60

SAMSUNG EVO 120GB * OCZ STEALTHXSTREAM 2 600W * Win 7 64
@ defekt : Mobility is King and burst damage is Queen. Checkmate.
Gdy byłem młodszy byłem bardziej beztroski... aha... nie lubię już POLSKI !


#20 Vindictive

Vindictive

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 2 posts
  • LocationIndianapolis, IN

Posted December 14 2012 - 05:27 AM

View PostIzayoi, on December 14 2012 - 03:19 AM, said:

The new version of Siege is awesome. I absolutely love the changes they made to the overall flow of the gametype.

4 vs 3 @ready
*Yoink!*
1 vs 6 @start
The first battleship is launched before new joins.
Camp spawn.
<sarcasm>It's awesome!</sarcasm>

If people would cut this stupidity out, the mode actually is awesome.




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users