18 replies to this topic

[Urvanis]

As someone who exclusively plays A class mechs. I think its boring to have a mech that can be build identical to a mech of the same class.

I'd like there to be an A class sniper mech. with the weapon load out from one of the early gameplay videos. It seemed like a B class mech. but It had a chain gun and a sabot rifle. I think assault rifle/sabot, and  SA hawken/sabot would be a little more interesting for the scout, with a  heat cannon 20 unlock.

the flak and mini flak cannon feels more appropriate for the berserker. I'd say take the assault rifle from the berserker and replace it with a mini flak. and give them a 20 flak and 20 vulcan unlock. to really make it a close quarters mech.

as it is now,  heat cannon aside, the scout feels too much like the berserker

[Vitinary]

There was ██████ in alpha.
Any proofs can't be given, but you just have to belive that scout is now where it belongs.

[defekt]

As things are now there are only three broad levels of distinction between mech concepts in Hawken: chassis size (A, B or C), weapon set and ability.  In ideal conditions every mech concept would retain uniqueness in all three levels of distinction.  Currently there are not enough sets of three weapons to create a wide selection of unique and useful mech concepts and giving most mechs a level 20 unlock further dilutes the uniqueness of any given combination thus Hawken has been forced to compromise on one level of distinction, weapon sets, in order to try and keep things fresh and interesting.  Nothing wrong with that, two levels of distinction are probably still enough to hold the forces of homogeneity at arms length.  However, allowing repetition of possible weapon combinations within the same mech class sounds like a mistake to me, if only from the stand point of compromising on two levels of distinction.  IMO none of Hawken's current levels of distinction are individually strong enough to avoid a sense of homogeneity.

[JustJake]

You might find that sniper weaponry on a Class A is what some would call 'OP'

[defekt]

Shhhh...

[Urvanis]

defekt, on November 25 2012 - 05:18 AM, said:

As things are now there are only three broad levels of distinction between mech concepts in Hawken: chassis size (A, B or C), weapon set and ability.  In ideal conditions every mech concept would retain uniqueness in all three levels of distinction.  Currently there are not enough sets of three weapons to create a wide selection of unique and useful mech concepts and giving most mechs a level 20 unlock further dilutes the uniqueness of any given combination thus Hawken has been forced to compromise on one level of distinction, weapon sets, in order to try and keep things fresh and interesting.  Nothing wrong with that, two levels of distinction are probably still enough to hold the forces of homogeneity at arms length.  However, allowing repetition of possible weapon combinations within the same mech class sounds like a mistake to me, if only from the stand point of compromising on two levels of distinction.  IMO none of Hawken's current levels of distinction are individually strong enough to avoid a sense of homogeneity.

well with the exception of the scout and the berserker, no other mech in the same class share the same secondary. That is a big part of what makes the scout feel like the berserker to me. you top that with them both being close to mid range oriented and also sharing a primary weapon ontop of secondary weapons, the gameplay and tactics end up being the same. Save for every 2 minutes or so when I activate an ability.

Though from what I gathered from your post, you seem to agree with me on the level that at least the scout and berserker secondary shouldn't be shared.  I'm not so keen on terminology but I may very well have said what you've already said.

[KungfuDojo]

If anything shouldn't they change berserker then_ It is basically a copy of assault for A class. Scout is actually rahter unique with the flaks.

[Urvanis]

KungfuDojo, on November 25 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

If anything shouldn't they change berserker then_ It is basically a copy of assault for A class. Scout is actually rahter unique with the flaks.

That was why I suggested giving the flak to the berserker. Scout has a recon feel to it, doesn't seem like the name of a close quarters unit.

[Cyclonus]

Urvanis, on November 25 2012 - 06:36 AM, said:

KungfuDojo, on November 25 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

If anything shouldn't they change berserker then_ It is basically a copy of assault for A class. Scout is actually rahter unique with the flaks.

That was why I suggested giving the flak to the berserker. Scout has a recon feel to it, doesn't seem like the name of a close quarters unit.

Don't scouts typically gather reconnaissance_

[Necro]

Urvanis, on November 25 2012 - 06:36 AM, said:

KungfuDojo, on November 25 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

If anything shouldn't they change berserker then_ It is basically a copy of assault for A class. Scout is actually rahter unique with the flaks.

That was why I suggested giving the flak to the berserker. Scout has a recon feel to it, doesn't seem like the name of a close quarters unit.

At first the name didn't sound like what it was. A true CQC would have a flak/mini flak and a flamethrower.

I agree that berserker sounds like a better name for a CQC with the mini and the damage boost.

Scout sounds like something that would have AR/SMG

[BlackCephie]

I agree with the OP. I cant say much here, but I will say that it would be a very interesting twist on the scout. I also agree that flaks would be more apprprpiate on the zerk. Me and my buddy Astrolis employ scout tactics that I feel would be far more fun and efficient with a sabot as the secondary. You boost in with low sig radius, spot the team, harrass them with tow, then bait them into you team. However you still have that travel time. Its very satisfying to hit long range tow shots, but sabot rounds would more than likely hit faster and more often. At that point, you have scouted, so now in battle you can the speed to flank, but the range to stay out of the chaos and not get insta-popped. As it stands, people are complaining that scout is OP, but I disagree. Its so easy to die in a large game with good players to just get focused and picked off in an engagement, even after you team has showed off. This is mainly from rocketeers and whatnot. With a sabot, you would have big damage at long range, and have the mobility to constantly shift position and not get hunted down so easily. AR would be a solid primary. EOC would also be interesting, as being far away would all you ample opportunity to set up EOC traps on incoming enemies. Definitely would be an advanced playstyle I think though. +1 to the thread.

Edited by BlackCephie, November 25 2012 - 01:52 PM.

[Astrolis]

JustJake, on November 25 2012 - 05:43 AM, said:

You might find that sniper weaponry on a Class A is what some would call 'OP'

considering how much DPS the current SS weapons do, I don't see how it would be OP to just turn the SS into a A-Class mech.

[BlackCephie]

Astrolis, on November 25 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

JustJake, on November 25 2012 - 05:43 AM, said:

You might find that sniper weaponry on a Class A is what some would call 'OP'

considering how much DPS the current SS weapons do, I don't see how it would be OP to just turn the SS into a A-Class mech.

Lol I really would hope they would bring the sabot back to its original state. Precision weaponry should always be rewarded with mad damage

[Astrolis]

The Sniper (A-Class SS) from "a previous build that can't be talked about" had it right.

there NDA happy

Edited by Astrolis, November 26 2012 - 08:10 AM.

[Analysis]

Urvanis, on November 25 2012 - 03:57 AM, said:

As someone who exclusively plays A class mechs. I think its boring to have a mech that can be build identical to a mech of the same class.

I'd like there to be an A class sniper mech. with the weapon load out from one of the early gameplay videos. It seemed like a B class mech. but It had a chain gun and a sabot rifle. I think assault rifle/sabot, and  SA hawken/sabot would be a little more interesting for the scout, with a  heat cannon 20 unlock.

the flak and mini flak cannon feels more appropriate for the berserker. I'd say take the assault rifle from the berserker and replace it with a mini flak. and give them a 20 flak and 20 vulcan unlock. to really make it a close quarters mech.

as it is now,  heat cannon aside, the scout feels too much like the berserker

I like the mini flak and the tow on the scout. I also prefer the fuel ability to the damagae boost. I don't like the idea of sniper weapons on a light mech. The weakness of a sniper should be close range, but the light mech is the fastest so getting close would almost be impossible. The reason the scout is fun to play is because the mech requires the user to get close to another mech. Since the scout has low health there are two dangers for the pilot. The first is getting close and the second is not dying to splash damage once you are close. The scout is becoming my favorite mech.

[BlackCephie]

NDA Astrolis

[N0stalgia]

The Sharpshooter in Alpha was overpowered. The Sniper in Alpha was WAY OVERPOWERED. But it was a hell of a lot of fun while it lasted.

[Spliff_Craven]

Currently the Scout is being used as a hard close quarters hitter. They are too fast and heavily loaded out.
Scouts are getting in close & you can`t turn fast enough to hit them; not to mention they are hitting way too hard.

I think a Scout is for scouting and shouldn`t be used as a hard hitting Brawler.
Scouting should be akin to spotting as Sharpshooter is to sniping.
Scouts should travel light, Heavy weapons would only slow them down...

The last match I was in the highest scores were the Scouts by a significant margin on both teams.
All heavy and mid weights suffered the worst K/D ratios. average was about 4 kills to every 7 deaths.
The scouts on the other hand had 20 kills and 3 deaths.
Clearly in need of tweaking...

I submit the current armament is way overpowered with Tow and both Flak and Mini Flak.

Might I offer a better mix_ Give them a SA Hawkins and Assault Rifle with the Tow Rocket and slow them down just a bit the extra gas tank is more than enough of an advantage for getaways.

Lighter primary`s for this mech should be a must regardless.

Edited by Spliff_Craven, November 25 2012 - 11:29 PM.

[BeefC4ke]

Urvanis, on November 25 2012 - 03:57 AM, said:

As someone who exclusively plays A class mechs. I think its boring to have a mech that can be build identical to a mech of the same class.

I'd like there to be an A class sniper mech. with the weapon load out from one of the early gameplay videos. It seemed like a B class mech. but It had a chain gun and a sabot rifle. I think assault rifle/sabot, and  SA hawken/sabot would be a little more interesting for the scout, with a  heat cannon 20 unlock.

the flak and mini flak cannon feels more appropriate for the berserker. I'd say take the assault rifle from the berserker and replace it with a mini flak. and give them a 20 flak and 20 vulcan unlock. to really make it a close quarters mech.

as it is now,  heat cannon aside, the scout feels too much like the berserker

Class A with Sabot and Slug/Hakens. Special ability heat dump. Level 20 unlock could be Heat maybe but that might be too strong.

JustJake, on November 25 2012 - 05:43 AM, said:

You might find that sniper weaponry on a Class A is what some would call 'OP'

It wouldn't be OP as it would be a glass cannon. If anyone got close to it it would be game over.


I really wish they would just take the damage boost ability away from the SS and put sabot/slug damage values and weapon speed back to CB2. They could even increase the heat and just give the SS the heat dump special and make the class about managing your heat and landing your shots.

High skill = high reward.