229 replies to this topic

[deusex2]

From limited experience I have with Hellfire, the only gripe I have with it, is it's slow projectile speed. One second delay is annoying, but manageable. However slow projectile speed for a long range weapon_! That's just silly, because the damn thing is even slower than GA sniper rifle shot.

[Mothanos]

You can work around its disadvantage but still it is inferior to the TOW.
You can have fun with it, but versus good teams your better of with another class as you can only shoot noobs with it.

Bruiser is underpowerd, any1 saying its not havent played versus good teams / players.

I think we all like to play our own mechs, but it needs to perform well, Bruiser is not perfomring well and i have heared alot of Closed Beta players saying it is not on par a few patches ago....

Would like to see another solution to improve Hellfire as it is not a good choice...

[Omega22]

I hear you hotdog , many times in DM, i see the guys are shouting for TEAM PLAY but everyone whats to be like JOHN RAMBO...

listen to the AI...stick together or go out in a Flash if you go out there alone with all guns blazing

Edited by Omega22, December 19 2012 - 05:54 AM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Beemann, on December 19 2012 - 02:18 AM, said:

Remove spread, put player skill and decision making into firing the weapon (read: HL2 style laser tracking please), fix explosion stunlock, fix firing delay across the board (fire then dash != I want to dash into that wall and blow myself up)

Weapon works with low skill play (AOE spam), weapon works with high skill play (curving around corners through clever laser guiding), missiles get reliable, weapons in general stop acting silly

Problems_

All of my yes.

That said, the Hellfire is actually really good at the moment. Better than it's been ever before.

[TwiceDead]

I love hellfire missiles... You can fire them AROUND corners! Get a lock, dash back to cover, rapidly turn towards the corner you came from and fire the hellfire missiles AROUND the corner. Now let me see ToW's do the same.

[Deu]

AsianJoyKiller, on December 19 2012 - 06:05 AM, said:

All of my yes.

That said, the Hellfire is actually really good at the moment. Better than it's been ever before.

I wasn't gonna name drop but since you are here, I've seen this guy use the rocketeer and only use the HFM to kill many innocent people. Never again do I want to witness such a bloody mess.

Mothanos, on December 19 2012 - 05:48 AM, said:

You can work around its disadvantage but still it is inferior to the TOW.
You can have fun with it, but versus good teams your better of with another class as you can only shoot noobs with it.

Bruiser is underpowerd, any1 saying its not havent played versus good teams / players.

I think we all like to play our own mechs, but it needs to perform well, Bruiser is not perfomring well and i have heared alot of Closed Beta players saying it is not on par a few patches ago....

Would like to see another solution to improve Hellfire as it is not a good choice...

Honestly you are just saying things with absolutely no regard for fact. Do you even know the stat numbers for any of the weapons_ You've heard CBE players talking most likely in a complaint thread. It's not a mech flaw but just fate that you had to be matched up against better players. Of course better players are gonna defeat you, that's why they're better! It's called getting rocked and with it I welcome you to the world of first person shooters because if you've never lost so bad that you've wanted to quit the game forever you've clearly never played any FPS. I'm confident that AJK isn't a total moron and knows what he is talking about when he says HFM are better than they've been for awhile.

The thing to do is lose, go to forums, and cry and complain *insert mech of choice here* isn't strong enough. Gotta stop letting it bug me so much but I won't.

Edited by Deu, December 19 2012 - 07:00 AM.

[Zyrusticae]

AsianJoyKiller, on December 19 2012 - 06:05 AM, said:

All of my yes.

That said, the Hellfire is actually really good at the moment. Better than it's been ever before.

Well, I completely disagree.

No other secondary weapon is completely useless against light mechs. No other secondary is rendered inoperable in close-quarters combat.

It's one thing if it's disadvantageous to engage in close combat with this thing, but it doesn't just go from strong -> weak in CQB, it goes from strong -> UTTERLY USELESS.

This, in combination with every single map having an abundance of cover means the only times you do well with it is in situations where the enemy is preoccupied by someone else, in which case you may as well TOW them in the back anyway as it's just as effective.

Hell, it doesn't even have the damage advantage because of its slow firing rate (5 full seconds between volleys vs. 3 1/3 seconds for TOWs). Again, the only thing it has going for it is its ability to stomp on noobs. It doesn't even excel at fighting in open areas when skilled players can still hit you more often with the TOW.

By the way, firing around corners is entirely ineffective if the target is laying flush against the wall you're firing around OR if they're dashing away. It also doesn't work if you're too close to the corner and your missiles will just hit the wall instead. Too many 'what-ifs' there to be effective; again, just use a TOW and it works just as well (mid-air detonations make everything easier!).

Beemann's suggestions would go a LONG way to fixing its many terrible issues. The removal of the terrible firing delay alone would elevate it to 'deadly weapon' in my eyes.

[Karaipantsu]

Beemann, on December 19 2012 - 02:18 AM, said:

HL2 style laser tracking please

Oh god... I think I need to change my pants....

[ConsterMonster]

if you can catch a light mech at a good enough angle, hellfires really hurt them. It may be much less reliable against them, but when it hits they really suffer

Edited by ConsterMonster, December 19 2012 - 10:11 AM.

[Omega22]

Yes please guyz notch the firing speed up , suffered really with the bruiser ,,, its so easy to dodge the hellfire and the damage is pathetic , its like i am firing minature missles or mini missles and they all have a mind of their own and happly fly off away from the target and misses the target. never saw this much in cb3 ...really what the hell did they do to the hell fire missiles ///

give me a TOW AS A LEVEL 25 PRESTIGE WEAPON INSTEAD OF A CRUMMY ASSAULT RIFLE

[matsnake]

Well... i don't have a clear idea yet on hellfire missiles.

I used this weapon with the rocketeer and worked fine for me.

But.. yesterday i bought the bruiser.. and ... i'm pretty confused about the hellfires on this mech.
Basically i feel that doesn't fit the bruiser gamestyle.
It got the vulcan that's the best close range weapon i tihnk... but it has this weapons that doesn't work on close range. It's really hard to hit something if your enemy is close. I managed to hit A-Classes by skyp the lock-on and just shoot the rockets where i supposed to hit the enemy mech and sometimes worked fine. But the damage wasn't really high.

I'm probably playing wrong, but i feel that must be done something with the hellfires. Since if i play at medium range or long range the vulcan is almost useless, and if i go close range hellfires are really hard to use.

just a big IMHO

[DexteraDomini]

Zyrusticae, on December 19 2012 - 09:04 AM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on December 19 2012 - 06:05 AM, said:

All of my yes.

That said, the Hellfire is actually really good at the moment. Better than it's been ever before.

Well, I completely disagree.

No other secondary weapon is completely useless against light mechs. No other secondary is rendered inoperable in close-quarters combat.

It's one thing if it's disadvantageous to engage in close combat with this thing, but it doesn't just go from strong -> weak in CQB, it goes from strong -> UTTERLY USELESS.

Snip

I've had several CQB scenarios with the Rocketeer where the Hellfire nut-punches everyone in front of me. My favorite one was underneath the AA - 3 guys came through 1 hole and ate the entire volley point-blank. I died anyway but the number of assists that rolled in afterwards was great

If your weapons don't work well for you at certain ranges, I suggest you improve how well you dictate range. Stuck in CQB_ Disengage and search for a better environment to take down the guy chasing you. People keep dodging in and out to avoid your missiles_ Shoot at other people that aren't paying attention.

But if you're hell-bent on using a medium/long range highly explosive weapon for CQB, maybe you just need this to pop up every time you try to use them as such:



And, let me say this again. I pilot an A-Class mech. I've eaten a few Hellfires, and by god they hurt. They are not useless against us, their owner just needs to use them better in order to kill us with them.

~

But, to stay productive on this thread:

Can I suggest an improvement on the lock-on mechanism_ For some reason, I can't get it to work. Ever. Maybe I'm an fuzzy bunny or something, but lock-on must be some magical thing only for the 3L33T. Maybe, I dunno, hold down the fire button to lock on_ I would like that much more, and it'd be a little more intuitive imo.

[Phaaze]

As much as asianjoykiller is socially abrasive he is a very good player.

Edited by Phaaze, December 19 2012 - 10:37 AM.

[Zyrusticae]

Phaaze, on December 19 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

As much as asianjoykiller is socially abrasive he is a very good player.

I am laughing at how bad so many of those players are. That is exactly what I was talking about.

There were far too many instances of players just sitting in one place waiting to be destroyed. Any weapon will do against that caliber of opponent.

[Hinata]

seriously this topic make must login in since i love and experienced enough with rocketeer and its hellfire missile...
if you play on asia server ,come let me show you...

Quote

they have no use except for supporting teammates at mid-to-long ranges in completely open fields

^ thats the answer,...
no need aim at mid-long range (including flying target) ..just lock and shoot....it guarantee 100% hit if they not dodge
compare it with tow at mid-long range...all you need to do is AIM where enemy move then they still can dodge it ..fly _

how to use it on close range = i agree its kinda hard anyway all weapon need + and - right _
you still can lock the enemy then fly to make range so the missile can manuver
or you can just shoot it without lock system...it still deal good dmg if not too close


can you win 1 on 1 fight againts TV mech __ yes , A class __ lol they take 50% hp if hit by hellfire and some seeker spam
Hellfire + spam seeker + hellfire again + couple seeker = kill from 100% hp

what if they good pilot who use dodge when you locking __
just lock then wait 1 sec ...if they dodge too early and have no cover it hellfire will hit them
use fly it create more range , harder to hit by tow , if they flying too = easy target for lock + helllfire + seeker

but yes i agree ...the biggest enemy of hellfire is cover, just lock and wait their reaction then decide when to shoot
and also unguided hellfire also accurate at mid range

about CQB as rockeeter + hellfire it the situation you must evade !!
fight on mid-long range is better


The biggest ENEMY for now is how ppl start creating PRE-MADE team
and you got bunch of teammate who think you can fight alone like COD...and you will be end up targeting together by pre-made team..

I always ask them , HOW HARD TO STICK TOGETHER _ and GO or ATTACK to location which already red marked

Edited by Hinata, December 19 2012 - 11:27 AM.

[DexteraDomini]

Zyrusticae, on December 19 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

Phaaze, on December 19 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

As much as asianjoykiller is socially abrasive he is a very good player.

I am laughing at how bad so many of those players are. That is exactly what I was talking about.

There were far too many instances of players just sitting in one place waiting to be destroyed. Any weapon will do against that caliber of opponent.

Things that happened in that video:
Taking advantage of players that don't move much.
Taking advantage of teammates taking the attention.
Using the 'element of surprise.'
Chasing and killing of weakened opponents.
Use of the PRIMARY weapon for CQB (see 1:50ish).
Regular use of weapons at their intended ranges.
Range control.

All of these things are player skill.
But hey, since you're bent on talking talking talking about how broken the Hellfire is, could you upload a video showing us just how tragic it is_ Maybe then we can decide for sure if the problem is in the weapon or in the cockpit

[Phaaze]

Zyrusticae, on December 19 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

I am laughing at how bad so many of those players are. That is exactly what I was talking about.

There were far too many instances of players just sitting in one place waiting to be destroyed. Any weapon will do against that caliber of opponent.

Now THAT has me intersted...
I would like to see asianjoykiller with rocketeer vs you and see who wins....
(not taking sides because I don't know your skill level but intriguing non the less)

Edit if you can stomp asian (or someone of similar skill on video) when he/she has rocketeer ill admit you are right.

Edit2: Not meaning to single out asian he just happened to be the one who made the vid.

Edited by Phaaze, December 19 2012 - 11:27 AM.

[Hinata]

i dunno how good AJK is... but i think no need AJK yet, come play with me (i start play this on OB and still not reach 20 hours of gameplay)
i think, i can give this topic starter  enough trouble  using "hellfire"

[z121231211]

Deu, on December 19 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

Omega22, on December 19 2012 - 12:36 AM, said:

and i am talking about have a clear , unblocked shot and you fire for a direct hit and it flys off target like a spread/bloom effect.... what gives man...

so i dont think its about skill... skill is about dodge  enemy fire

Oh it's Omega22 /skiptext

How about instead of quoting him stating that you're going to disregard what he says you should use the features made specifically for that.

[Zyrusticae]

I may have to revise my opinion on the matter. After some tests I have found that the extreme close ranges that kill the Hellfire's effectiveness also happen to make the other secondaries difficult and possibly suicidal to use. Amusingly, despite only using it for half the time I've used the Bruiser, the CRT-Recruit already has almost as many deaths by suicide.

Moreover, though my K:D ratio is superior with the CR-T Recruit (which is basically identical to the Bruiser except for the ability and secondary), my assist ratio and, by extension, damage ratio is indeed superior on the Bruiser and is something that has been consistent across multiple games.

I still fear that the weapon will fall by the wayside as players get more skilled and learn how to properly counter the weapon. However, as long as the game continues to get an influx of less-skilled players and as long as there are plenty of distracted players to shoot in the back, it will still have a place in the game even so.

Bruiser Stats
CRT-Recruit Stats