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What I think we'd all like to see from the Devs.

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#1 _Hex_

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Posted January 17 2013 - 12:11 PM

I know it's not THAT simple because of legal reasons, but I think as a community that some of us would like to see a bit more transparency on what's being worked on (patch wise) from the Devs. I (personally) would enjoy having a small list that is open to the community. I know we have a suggestion forum, but having an area where the Devs could explain exactly what they are working on and leave a small comment section for CONSTRUCTIVE criticism (Not that "This is bad... no reasoning... blah blah blah..." B.S.) But actual facts. (Think an AJK post). I know that it's kind of far-fetched, but it's an idea nonetheless. I realize that due to legal complications this would be hard to implement, but having an open (as possible) Dev to player community communication is the best thing a game can offer to its players. Just my thoughts

Also I will add that I enjoy the fact that the Devs do post to the forum, and address minor problems very quickly.

Any comments_


     -Hex

View PostLeonhardt, on April 30 2013 - 04:00 AM, said:

alt+F4 fixes this. Reinstall and as soon as you see it quickly hit alt+F4. If the game crashes restart and try again until its fixed.

#2 -Tj-

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Posted January 17 2013 - 01:16 PM

While that would be nice, it could also lead to a lot of chaos amongst players in the community, particularly the outspoken ones. This wouldn't be because they don't want transparency, but rather because they think they know better than the devs do. It's probably not a legal issue they'd be facing, unless they start releasing confidential information. The devs are busy enough trying to keep up with the patches; it'd be more stress on them than they already have if they had to post detailed updates AND answer a torrent of questions they may not have time for.

To give you an example, perhaps they post something like this:

Quote

(Disclaimer: this is not a post by any dev. It's a fake, made up post used as an example for this post and this post alone. Do not take it as actual news!)

As we work toward the next patch, we're aiming to release a fix to Matchmaking that fixes a majority of the problems we know you all have been concerned about for the past month. The new Matchmaker focuses on player skill by [insert what they use]. We have to use this data because this is all the data we currently record in the game, and we feel it will lead to a better experience.

There is a fix for the EMP in the works, but at this time it's not a top priority.

Once posted, most players will be completely oblivious if they don't check the forums. You might get some that will say, "great!" or, "awesome!" You'll get a lot that will say, "fuzzy bunny FINALLY," and others that will completely just critisize the fact that it took so long, without actually considering that all the data they collected previously is what allowed them to come up with the new MM methods. You'll have a lot of players saying, "MM is fine, fix the fuzzy bunnying EMP instead, wtf devs_" and so on.

After it's released, you'll have a bunch of players saying, "MM still broken, wtf," or, "ugh, see_ MM was fine before, EMPs still broken, stupid devs." You might even see, "this doesn't work, it doesn't work because you didn't use this, this, or this," even if they have no idea what the data they collect looks like. They likely wouldn't be able to release the data for people to see, so those who are saying, "do it this way, not this way," may not have any traction at all in their comments.

On top of that, you might get players who remember recent news, like Hawken being ported to Nvidia's Shield, and inject that into the negativity. There was already a small outcry by certain members of the community saying, "why are they doing a port instead of fixing what's broken_" What they may not realize is they might have hired a team of one or two people to work specifically on this port using already-made assets. The port itself might only involve some recompilation of the main game data, then tweaks to the levels for performance optimization and tweaks to the controls. This team might not have anything to do with the main development, thus not having any impact whatsoever. Then they might say, "well if they could hire a team to do the port, why not hire more people to do fixes_" Even if they did hire more to support the main team, they'd need to be trained, which takes time, and they'd need even more time before they know the ins and outs of the game and the system as well as the established team does. Those doing the tweaks to the game already know the ins and outs, and those team members might know their job so well that they can play the game in their head to get an idea of how the changes they make could change the game. They won't know how well they work till it's tested en masse, but that's what we're here for. ;)

Then, if the team decides they no longer want to deal with the drama that comes from being too transparent, you'll get even further outcry that they're being too secretive, or that the change isn't "fair."

It goes on and on...

I like transparency, personally, but I know the negative side of it as well. It's better for the sanity of the team and community if certain things stay under wraps. If you want a novel-sized read, check the Pandora console forums for a lot of the drama that came about from too much transparency during development... there's YEARS of it.

Edited by -Tj-, January 17 2013 - 01:18 PM.


#3 The_Silencer

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Posted January 17 2013 - 09:00 PM

Feedback from devs uses to flow in such a sinusoidal motion. Its frequency may vary as we all move forward. But I think that hints, tips and quickies are always present somehow..

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"The difference between theory and practice is smaller in theory than it is in practice"


#4 SilentJacket

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Posted January 17 2013 - 09:02 PM

View PostThe_Silencer, on January 17 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

Feedback from devs uses to flow in such a sinusoidal motion. Its frequency may vary as we all move forward. But I think that hints, tips and quickies are always present somehow..

In english, please

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#5 The_Silencer

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Posted January 17 2013 - 09:07 PM

Sure, they're doing a good job up there and I'd say that they're more than busy right now... Now yes_ :D

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"The difference between theory and practice is smaller in theory than it is in practice"


#6 _Hex_

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Posted January 17 2013 - 10:04 PM

They've been more than open so far imo. I'm just saying for the future. :P

View PostLeonhardt, on April 30 2013 - 04:00 AM, said:

alt+F4 fixes this. Reinstall and as soon as you see it quickly hit alt+F4. If the game crashes restart and try again until its fixed.

#7 flimsy

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Posted January 18 2013 - 01:26 AM

The lack of specifics is not the problem, it's the lack of a overall plan that is really frustrating. We don't need to know exactly how the are going to fix x problem, but we do need to know the context in which they regard x as a problem.

#8 Kvazimodo

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Posted January 20 2013 - 05:03 AM

That is an interesting idea. I think they should take it into consideration

#9 Elix

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Posted January 20 2013 - 07:59 AM

I don't have any definite dates, because this is beyond my control, but the devs are already at work to change this communication problem, and it's something I'm actually helping with. Plans are already coming together to get closer to the way it used to be with a smaller playerbase.

More info, and the opportunity to join in on the process and ask questions of the devs, is in the second thread link in my sig.
HAWKEN Community Values (updated!)

ETA for $feature_you_want to be added to Hawken Open Beta: Imminent™
See someone breaking the rules_ Don't reply, just hit Report. I am a player, not staff.
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#10 The_Silencer

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Posted January 20 2013 - 10:58 AM

Again, they all must be in hair-on-fire mode in the labs rightnow.

About sharing plans... that's not our biz, guys, IMHO. We've a new shinning and fat patch coming soon (24th). We've recently enjoyed Operation Frostburn, we've had mini patches and fixes pretty frequently, the possiblity of giving a try to several mechas, and now lots of new goodies plus a brand new mech. Honestly, I don't have much to say against how we're moving forward in here.

Although that does not mean that the lack of most specific data on balancing may be causing worries to certain nerds in here. I've been messing with RTS games during all these many years so I'd also like to have at hand much more specific numbers on everthing. But again, at this stage I can understand on that this is probably not a priority in the TODO queue. Nevertheless I think we'll have all the data at hand relatively in brief.

Just my 2 extra cents.

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"The difference between theory and practice is smaller in theory than it is in practice"


#11 Elix

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Posted January 20 2013 - 11:19 AM

I would actually like it if they pulled back the curtain just a tiny bit and revealed a liiiitle bit of the overall roadmap for the somewhat-near future... without getting the lawyers or board of directors on their case for disclosing confidential business secrets that would hurt Hawken or give away critical info to competitors.
HAWKEN Community Values (updated!)

ETA for $feature_you_want to be added to Hawken Open Beta: Imminent™
See someone breaking the rules_ Don't reply, just hit Report. I am a player, not staff.
Drinking game: Check the daily stats. If I'm not the top, DRINK! (I'm joking!)

#12 The_Silencer

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Posted January 20 2013 - 11:22 AM

Something says me that.. ( well.. a blue bird, Ok_ :) ) after the new upcoming patch is released we'll notice certain related changes on that matter. Slightly, at least. ;)

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"The difference between theory and practice is smaller in theory than it is in practice"






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