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Make Camera Shake _Mandatory_


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#41 Majic12

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Posted February 02 2013 - 05:07 PM

View PostNBShoot_me, on February 02 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

... . . one sec.. just... hold on for a sec... elite_. .. ..  pffftt.. HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!  MY SIDES! TEH HURT!

Holy cow!  I need to save this one to HD!  This is priceless!  OK, too many problems to really go into depth here, but.. LMAO.

dude ... you need, like an ambulance or something_
[Pilot Error]

#42 NBShoot_me

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Posted February 02 2013 - 05:13 PM

View PostMajic12, on February 02 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

View PostNBShoot_me, on February 02 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

... . . one sec.. just... hold on for a sec... elite_. .. ..  pffftt.. HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!  MY SIDES! TEH HURT!

Holy cow!  I need to save this one to HD!  This is priceless!  OK, too many problems to really go into depth here, but.. LMAO.

dude ... you need, like an ambulance or something_

Dude... like, um, lemme check...






.. no.  ;)

Edited by NBShoot_me, February 02 2013 - 05:13 PM.


#43 Majic12

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Posted February 02 2013 - 05:14 PM

better safe than sorry, carry on.
[Pilot Error]

#44 NBShoot_me

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Posted February 02 2013 - 05:19 PM

View PostMajic12, on February 02 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

better safe than sorry, carry on.

Sir, YES SIR!

#45 ReachH

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Posted February 03 2013 - 08:08 AM

[font=play, helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Guys, keep posts constructive to the topic and inviting to all members.[/font]

Even if some of them are slightly retarded.

View Post[HWK]HUGHES, on October 23 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

Development happens.


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#46 NBShoot_me

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Posted February 03 2013 - 10:54 AM

View PostReachH, on February 03 2013 - 08:08 AM, said:

Guys, keep posts constructive to the topic and inviting to all members.

Even if some of them are slightly retarded.

You do know that playing the role of forum nanny rarely gets the intended results, right_

Anyway...

The idea is bad, the OP is trolling pretty hard, where do you think threads like these go_  I'm a little surprised it didn't get locked already.  Besides, way for you to be constructive and inviting.  LOL.  ;)

#47 Gagzila

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Posted February 04 2013 - 04:03 PM

View PostBeemann, on February 01 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

View PostGagzila, on February 01 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

BF3's hardcore mode has parrallels in that removing the normal HUD / UI brings you closer to the raw experience the game is trying to recreate for you. Playing a mech game, you want to feel like you are piloting it, part of which is enhanced by the screen shake and cockpit lag, simulating the experience.

It's a rather simple request really, one that I can see the merit in and find it funny that some people would argue against so much when they need not even trouble themselves with it since it would be optional and actually in favour of maximising the Hawken experience for those not medically affected.
Actually the immersive parallel in this case would be forcing the cockpit HUD, which already happens. Screen shake is parallel to.. well... screen shake, and motion blur too to a degree
Both of those are toggleable options in just about any competent game, because they're frustrating to deal with and don't add any real depth to the game
And again, wasting time on a game mode that specifically shuts people out based on what are essentially health concerns is silly
Taking the time to implement said hardcore mode could be better spent creating a mode that everyone can play or in some way benefit from

It seems you are unable to comprehend past direct simple comparisons such as a green apple and a green apple versus a green apple and a orange where they are not the same fruit but can be compared on the fact they are both generally round and can be the same size or that both have seeds.

Graphical immersion is made up of many components, removing a HUD / UI in BF3 and inducing screen shake in Hawken both contribute to the same thing and so you can draw the conclusion that hardcore modes often include elements of graphical immersion that bring you closer to the raw game experience - there's the parallel in my example. BF3 has graphical immersion elements in it's hardcore mode and Hawken could as well in a future hardcore mode. So on that premise it makes perfect sense that the OP originally thought it could be part of a hardcore mode but in the interest of not excluding medically affected players from a whole game mode, make it a server toggle option so that it caters to both player bases.

Off course in other games screen shake isn't really a big thing but I think you would have to agree it adds loads more depth to the feeling of piloting a mech.

Also you don't seem to be reading my responses particularly well, since I did say the idea is to make it a toggle option for servers, therefore there will only be as many servers as want to actually run this option and it's not about shutting anyone out...if you want to talk that way, basically everyone against this idea is in essence shutting out the players that want to play with the screen shake turned up. If you want to talk about splitting a community, it's the game itself doing this by having this optional feature...not the players that simply want to play the game as it allows them to (with or without screen shake) without affecting their ability to compete on a level playing field.

Cheers,

Gagzila

Edited by Gagzila, February 04 2013 - 04:05 PM.

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#48 Dread_Lord_Pitr

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Posted February 04 2013 - 04:47 PM

View PostHekatonkheires, on February 01 2013 - 04:20 AM, said:

But I still think that the people getting nauseous just by the camera movement could better make use of a visit to the doctor. Is a common symptom of the Photosensitive epilepsy.

It's a form of Motion Sickness often referred to as Simulator Sickness.
Has nothing to do with Epilepsy.
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#49 Beemann

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Posted February 04 2013 - 05:00 PM

Not making it mandatory allows people to do both
Making it mandatory allows people to only choose one option
Only one of these is exclusive, I'll let you guess which one
Also remember, screen shake is a slider, not a toggle

And I don't feel that it adds any depth at all, it just makes it annoying. If we're really going to get into realistic combat and the details of it, why are we piloting mechs that look slapped together instead of driving tanks or flying those battleships we power with EU_
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#50 Gagzila

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Posted February 04 2013 - 05:15 PM

View PostBeemann, on February 04 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

Not making it mandatory allows people to do both
Making it mandatory allows people to only choose one option
Only one of these is exclusive, I'll let you guess which one
Also remember, screen shake is a slider, not a toggle

And I don't feel that it adds any depth at all, it just makes it annoying. If we're really going to get into realistic combat and the details of it, why are we piloting mechs that look slapped together instead of driving tanks or flying those battleships we power with EU_

Do we need to bring up the whole understanding english thing again Beemann_ As it seems you can't properly comprehend mine or many other posts.

OP is saying to make it optional with a topic heading designed to grab attention. I said to make it optional. Who is still arguing for it to be mandatory across the whole game_

We are asking for a server option toggle for a set amount of screen shake to make it a level playing field for those wanting this. If you play on normal servers you will still have your slider option to customise as you desire.

Ok, so you don't feel it adds depth. Myself and many others do.

As discussed previously, this is not about real world realism but about immersion in the game universe and piloting a mech. Get it through your head.

Do take a minute to understand what people are saying.

Cheers,

Gagzila
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#51 Beemann

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Posted February 04 2013 - 05:23 PM

If it's game-world immersion, why can;'t they have some technology that absorbs the impact_ We're already dealing with pilots who can, in the Hawken universe, do a 180 spin in about half a second without splattering themselves across the cockpit

As for the assertion that it's an option, what it is is an option to deny others an option. It's the request for an unnecessary exclusive option that a chunk of the playerbase CANNOT use. It's like asking for the team colours to be restricted to red and green because you feel that it's a better option, and fuzzy bunny any colourblind people who feel otherwise
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#52 Gagzila

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Posted February 04 2013 - 05:52 PM

View PostBeemann, on February 04 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

If it's game-world immersion, why can;'t they have some technology that absorbs the impact_ We're already dealing with pilots who can, in the Hawken universe, do a 180 spin in about half a second without splattering themselves across the cockpit

The devs could make it this way if they wanted to, the fact is though they don't and the option to turn camera shake off is solely to appease medically affected people. It's part of the game you are turning off so that it enables YOU to play but also inadvertently gives you an advantage over other players playing with it on, whether by choice or naivety (since it's on by default).

View PostBeemann, on February 04 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

As for the assertion that it's an option, what it is is an option to deny others an option. It's the request for an unnecessary exclusive option that a chunk of the playerbase CANNOT use. It's like asking for the team colours to be restricted to red and green because you feel that it's a better option, and fuzzy bunny any colourblind people who feel otherwise

Where are you drawing this conclusion from_

Cheers,

Gagzila

Edited by Gagzila, February 04 2013 - 06:00 PM.

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#53 Beemann

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Posted February 04 2013 - 05:55 PM

View PostGagzila, on February 04 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

The devs could make it this way if they wanted to, the fact is though they don't and the option to turn camera shake off is solely to appease medically affected people. It's part of the game you are turning off so that it enables you to play but also inadvertently gives you an advantage over other players playing with it on, whether by choice or naivety (since it's on by default).
Or maybe they figured you, and other players, would like it, so they decided to implement it
You know, like how they're adding those physX particle options

View PostGagzila, on February 04 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

Where are you drawing this conclusion from_
...the fact that you're asking for a mode in which it's mandatory, and that there are people who CANNOT play those modes whatsoever, while people in favour of screen shake can already play with screen shake_
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#54 Gagzila

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Posted February 04 2013 - 06:20 PM

View PostBeemann, on February 04 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

Or maybe they figured you, and other players, would like it, so they decided to implement it
You know, like how they're adding those physX particle options

I highly doubt it and why would the introduce a new feature that disadvantages you by using it_...They wouldn't, therefore it's an unintentional side effect of trying to cater to everyone, part of the "watering down".

View PostBeemann, on February 04 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

...the fact that you're asking for a mode in which it's mandatory, and that there are people who CANNOT play those modes whatsoever, while people in favour of screen shake can already play with screen shake_

The way you are talking indicates we are asking for it to be mandatory across all game modes or somehow stopping people playing something different from what is available in other modes. This is not the case....if someone such as yourself can play TDM as it is now and I can play TDM on another server with no difference apart from a set level of camera shake...what are you missing out on_ Nothing except a feature you are volunteering to opt out of anyway.

Similarly if a hardcore mode was created, there would be mostly servers for the standard hardcore mode that you could play and a few with mandatory camera shake enabled that I can play. Why do you give two fuzzy bunny about this_

Also you are mistaken again...I am not asking for a separate "mode" but a server side option that leaves it up to the hosting party to decide what type of match they want to host.

Cheers,

Gagzila

Edited by Gagzila, February 04 2013 - 06:21 PM.

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#55 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted February 04 2013 - 06:59 PM

View PostGagzila, on February 04 2013 - 06:20 PM, said:

The way you are talking indicates we are asking for it to be mandatory across all game modes or somehow stopping people playing something different from what is available in other modes. This is not the case....if someone such as yourself can play TDM as it is now and I can play TDM on another server with no difference apart from a set level of camera shake...what are you missing out on_ Nothing except a feature you are volunteering to opt out of anyway.

Similarly if a hardcore mode was created, there would be mostly servers for the standard hardcore mode that you could play and a few with mandatory camera shake enabled that I can play. Why do you give two fuzzy bunny about this_

Also you are mistaken again...I am not asking for a separate "mode" but a server side option that leaves it up to the hosting party to decide what type of match they want to host.
So in essence you are asking for exclusive servers for people who can afford high end machines and excludes people based on physical limitations_

Edited by AsianJoyKiller, February 04 2013 - 07:03 PM.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

The Sinful Infil HEAT Cannon Hustler, Cloaking and Smoking, C-Class Swagger, Ballin' n' Brawlin'


#56 Gagzila

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Posted February 04 2013 - 07:31 PM

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on February 04 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

So in essence you are asking for exclusive servers for people who can afford high end machines and excludes people based on physical limitations_

Here comes the cavalry to try and save Beemann's arse as usual :rolleyes:

So why do you need a high end machine to use camera shake_ And why are WE excluding when you're the ones that simply can't handle it_ Do people that get vertigo demand other people not sky dive because they can't_ Do you demand that others not enjoy a particular type of food that you are allergic to_ The sheer arrogance of your point of view...

You both sound like kids that can't afford to spend money in F2P games and so whinge and complain when others pay to progress as being pay to win. You're wanting to handicap others based on your own limitations. You've both got your fingers in your ears like little kids saying "no no no no no no...."

Again, what are you missing out on other than something you are already choosing to opt out of_ Your arguments seem pretty pointless to me.

Lets extrapolate the scenario some 100 years to when everyone has in house simulator cockpits that actually shake you around as you play the mech simulator....you're saying that because a minority have medical issues using these, everyone else has to turn off their simulator cockpits to remain competitive due to the visual advantage the minority receive by not being shaken around_ I think not.

Cheers,

Gagzila

Edited by Gagzila, February 04 2013 - 08:25 PM.

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#57 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted February 04 2013 - 08:53 PM

View PostGagzila, on February 04 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

Here comes the cavalry to save Beemann's arse as usual :rolleyes:

So why you you need a high end machine to use camera shake_ And why are WE excluding when you're the ones that simply can't handle it_ Do people that get vertigo demand other people not sky dive because they can't_ INVALID ANALOGY/STRAWMAN Do you demand that others not enjoy a particular type of food that you are allergic to_ INVALID ANALOGY/STRAWMAN

You both sound like people that can't afford to spend money in F2P games and so whinge and complain when others pay to progress as being pay to win. PERSONAL ATTACK/AD HOMINEM/STRAWMAN You've both got your fingers in your ears like little kids saying "no no no no no no...." PERSONAL ATTACK/AD HOMINEM

Again, what are you missing out on other than something you are already choosing to opt out of_ Your arguments seem pretty pointless to me.
This is a little hard to reply to, as most of your post consists of logical fallacies... but I'll attempt to anyway.

First off, I don't know why you think it's so unlikely that I browse the Suggestion Forums, and may just happen across your posts without Beemann calling my attention to it. Besides that, I don't even know that that little remark is supposed to accomplish. It just seems like your being condescending for no other reason than being condescending.

So wait, servers that grant immersion through screen shake only, but no other graphical immersion options would be forced_ I'm a little confused here. Why is that one graphical immersion option worth making servers exclusive to only those who have it on_ One graphical option seems like a rather trivial reason to exclude players. I would actually understand it more (though not agree with it) if there were Maximum immersion only servers, that required Ultra, full screen shake/cockpit lag, etc.
Should we also then be able to make servers that exclude people based on cockpit lag, motion blur, PhysX, texture quality, Experimental Reticle, HUD color or any other graphical immersion options_

For the record, you are excluding because you want to prevent people from play based on a certain parameter.
We are not excluding anybody. I don't know why you think I we would be trying to prevent people from playing with whatever graphical options they want. We don't care if you want to play with Ultra graphics and full screen shake. We will play with you regardless. It's your choice whether or not you want to sacrifice personal performance for graphical immersion. If that puts you at a disadvantage, then that is a choice you have made. Nobody has forced that disadvantage upon you, and nobody is preventing you from playing based upon that.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

The Sinful Infil HEAT Cannon Hustler, Cloaking and Smoking, C-Class Swagger, Ballin' n' Brawlin'


#58 NBShoot_me

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Posted February 04 2013 - 08:57 PM

View PostGagzila, on February 04 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on February 04 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

So in essence you are asking for exclusive servers for people who can afford high end machines and excludes people based on physical limitations_

Here comes the cavalry to try and save Beemann's arse as usual :rolleyes:

So why you you need a high end machine to use camera shake_ And why are WE excluding when you're the ones that simply can't handle it_ Do people that get vertigo demand other people not sky dive because they can't_ Do you demand that others not enjoy a particular type of food that you are allergic to_ The sheer arrogance of your point of view...

You both sound like kids that can't afford to spend money in F2P games and so whinge and complain when others pay to progress as being pay to win. You're wanting to handicap others based on your own limitations. You've both got your fingers in your ears like little kids saying "no no no no no no...."

Again, what are you missing out on other than something you are already choosing to opt out of_ Your arguments seem pretty pointless to me.

Lets extrapolate the scenario some 100 years to when everyone has in house simulator cockpits that actually shake you around as you play the mech simulator....you're saying that because a minority have medical issues using these, everyone else has to turn off their simulator cockpits to remain competitive due to the visual advantage the minority receive by not being shaken around_ I think not.

Cheers,

Gagzila

Well, in the realm of opinion, I’m going to side with Beemann on this one.  The community is just too small to be splitting it up right now, which, if you didn’t notice, is split four ways right now as it is.  Since there is still NO SERVER BROWSER, a “hardcore” mode really should be a no-go at this time.

Now, once there is a server browser, and if people want to start “hardcore” servers out there, that’d probably work, but NOT within the game’s MM, ever.. which is the equivalent (or should be) of a random battle (friends list kind of hurts this a bit).  An equivalent of a MM filter just removes people from an already small pool of players.  But hey, if you want to wait in the queue a little longer, I guess I can’t argue with you there..

In the spirit of this hardcore mode, I guess the FOV should be locked at what, 60’ish_  Maybe 65.  Custom paint jobs disabled, default brightness, contrast, etc. locked, no 3rd person repair mode, keyboards supporting key macros banned, graphics settings locked at, eh medium, and well, you get the idea, nothing should be allowed that gives someone an “edge”..  Because the whole argument behind this “request” is to create a more level playing field.. and add to the.. immersion in all that is Hawken, and to do so, you can’t cherry pick.  And no, I’m not going to make the dumb argument of “Everyone should hav teh saaem hardwear!”, which would be dumb.

As for this:  “You're wanting to handicap others based on your own limitations.”

Well.. you could almost argue that, if it weren’t for the fact that NO ONE is forced to play with camera shake on in the first place.  If someone wants to put themselves at this apparently earth shattering disadvantage by turning on/increasing camera shake, THEY chose to do so.  No one is forcing anyone to turn on or ratchet up these settings.  All this in a game that is nothing more than a mech arcade game, which is closer to an arcade version of Counter-strike with mechs when you have garbage like: near full combat capability at 0.00001% health, infinite ammo, replenishing fuel from nowhere, no friendly fire, ability to repair at will.. ANYWHERE, and a Hollywood style inability to harm the mech pilot even within a paper-thin A-class mech.  At least in games like Battlefield Bad company 2 you don’t have a single player class that can re-arm, self-heal, snipe, and kill EVERYTHING on the battlefield with relative ease..

As for all the little personal jabs... LOL.  Yeah, I hope you never intended on changing anyone's mind thar buddez!  And yes, I know that I'm never going to change your mind. ;)

Edited by NBShoot_me, February 04 2013 - 09:00 PM.


#59 Gagzila

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Posted February 04 2013 - 10:18 PM

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on February 04 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

...

It's a little hard for you to reply because you've got no meat to your arguments. My analogies are spot on and no amount of ALL CAPS IN RED TEXT will change the fact that because you have a limitation, you have to hold everyone else back.

EDIT: Here's one of them again with a bit more detail so you can see where I'm coming from - 8 people go to a restaurant, who engage in a competition to see who can eat a cherry pie the fastest. 2 of them say they are allergic to cherries and will have to eat the smaller lemon tart which 2 of the other 6 people don't like. So 6 of them go to have a competition with just lemon tarts instead, otherwise the 2 with allergies would have an unfair advantage. The other 2 that don't like lemon tarts want to have their own competition with cherry pies but the 2 that are allergic to them complain and carry on about the unfairness of it all, that they are being excluded to the point that through no fault or limitation of their own, the 2 that don't like lemon tarts are forced to eat them to compete since the restaurant owner would not serve cherry pies in order to shut up the 2 with allergies making a scene in his restaurant (either that or leave the premises), leaving a sour taste and wishing they had somewhere to have a good cherry pie eat off without lemon tart eaters so that they don't have to compromise on their enjoyment and have a level playing field to start with.

What does it matter to you personally, that a group of people are playing on a different server from you with forced camera shake_ You can still go play the same game on any other server without it. What is it that makes you unable to allow this_ How are we excluding you from playing and enjoying Hawken_

In regards to the cavalry comment...it's just a trend I've been noticing where you two basically go about the forums together, brow bashing individuals with your unbending opinion.

Yes servers that offer this as a singular option. Others can be implemented as well to provide a greater range of gameplay tastes. It's hardly unheard of as part of server customisation.

Again, the whole idea (from my POV) is not about excluding anyone...that's just an unfortunate part of having a game that caters to so many different people. It's actually about the inclusion of people that want to play with such settings and there's nothing stopping you joining but if you can't play with those settings, well that's your bad luck - go play on the majority of other servers than don't run this option, sheesh! These people DECIDE that they want to play this way (again - which the game allows and runs as default), who are you to deny them and look down your nose, demanding they play by your limitations. Yes you can say they could choose to turn the setting off, but what choice do they actually have if not wanting to be easy meat.

And no, it's my choice to play the game as it was advertised and meant to be played. An option that makes such a difference in competitive play should not actually be changeable by the player and if it is, a solution put in place that ensures a level playing field is maintained.

View PostNBShoot_me, on February 04 2013 - 08:57 PM, said:

...

NBShoot_Me, I've said a number of times that a hardcore mode would be great further down the track (ie. not now with the current player base) and that forced camera shake should be a separate server customisation option.

If the MM actually worked properly, it could filter on a set number of camera shake levels (either on / off with on being a set minimum or a range of 1 - 4 levels...this would require devs changing how the slider option works or it could just put you into % brackets).

I'm not sure what you are replying to with your "spirit of hardcore" paragraph. This is about game settings that create an advantage / disadvantage for players after which they should have the option for forcing it one way or the other via server customisation for those that are actually competitive and care about such things. rFactor, a racing simulator is a good example of this if at a more simulator level. You can set what assists are allowed / dissallowed, what are forced either on or off, camera views, etc. that gives the players connecting an assurance of a level playing field without some other player not playing by gentlemen's rules and running a setting that gives them a clear advantage...whatever happens after the lights go green in the match is up to their skill.

And I will argue that since NO ONE is forcing you to play with camera shake on, the idea is to have a few servers that cater to the people not wanting to compromise on this particular immersion setting and maintain competitiveness. If you can't play with this setting on then play on the bulk of other servers that are no different other than NOT forcing this setting. Simple.

If you ever have a difference of opinion with either of these two (Beemann & AJK), don't expect them to ever concede a millimetre towards your position. I've liked quite a few of their posts in the past and will continue to do so if I think it's a good post and on the money. If I think they are wrong, then I'll let them know. It's the way they always think they are right no matter what and can't be told otherwise that gets on my nerves a bit. I can be reasoned with...don't even try it with them though.

Cheers,

Gagzila

Edited by Gagzila, February 04 2013 - 10:52 PM.

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#60 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted February 04 2013 - 10:27 PM

I... I actually think you have done more damage to your own argument and point of view than I could ever hope to do. You are so determined to have the last word and be right, that you are actually defying basic logic to try win your arguments and contradicting yourself.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

The Sinful Infil HEAT Cannon Hustler, Cloaking and Smoking, C-Class Swagger, Ballin' n' Brawlin'





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