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A Serious Case for an (OPTIONAL) third person view


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#1 wat

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Posted March 01 2013 - 11:47 PM

Dear Meteor,

I would be much much  more inclined to spend real dollars on cosmetic things like thrusters and camo - seriously, much more inclined - if there were more opportunities during the game (not just the garage) to actually see my mech.

When repairing, your mech is stationary and in fetal position, and the camera is elevated for situational awareness - you really cant get a nice look.

You could argue that cosmetic things are mainly for other people to see, but i'm seriously not a fan of that.

The single thing that would compel me to spend more money on hawken is if a simple, no-frills, OPTIONAL third person view was added - the HUD can remain exactly the same - it can be an asymmetrical style third person view, over either the left or right shoulder (perhaps a toggle_), or it can be some other form of third person view.

I would get a much greater sense of ownership of a product i am paying for if i can simply look at it more.  I mean, when do I ever see thrusters_  at 358 hawken points, that's what, $2.50_  To never see my thrusters_

I am serious, i will throw money at you if someone spends however long it takes to implement a simple, functional third person view.



I understand that the advantage of situational awareness would go to those in third person - able to see around corners- but what if it were a very tight third person view - hovering just over the shoulder.

Besides, it is not necessarily a real "advantage" since every player will have it as an option.  If anything, it could even be a new hotkey-assignable command that lets players quickly toggle it in game - first person for combat, third person for roaming, quick switching for tricky situations.

Seriously, I will build a catapult designed solely for shooting my own projectile money at you guys if you add third person.

I love you.

wat


PS - I am obsessed with Hawken because I connect with its art.  The imagination and design choices totally resonate with me as much as star wars did when i was a kid.  I loved collecting models and staring at concept art and right now the mech designs in hawken, especially the Reaper and the unreleased "Pat", are some of my favorite sci-fi concepts out there.  I am craving better ways to look at my mech.

Edited by wat, March 01 2013 - 11:50 PM.


#2 Elix

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Posted March 02 2013 - 12:19 AM

If it confers an advantage over combat in first person, it is not optional. You will need to play third-person or be handicapped.
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#3 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted March 02 2013 - 12:20 AM

Are you seriously suggesting placing COSMETICS before balance and adherence to the fact that Hawken is FIRST PERSON SHOOTER_

My reaction is your name: WAT

EDIT:
And you can't tell me that it isn't a real advantage. Something that useful does not end up being "optional".

http://youtu.be/_5nFa5ObxMg

If you bring it in tight enough to be useless, it's just going to be ugly.

Edited by AsianJoyKiller, March 02 2013 - 01:26 AM.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

The Sinful Infil HEAT Cannon Hustler, Cloaking and Smoking, C-Class Swagger, Ballin' n' Brawlin'


#4 DoctorSprocket

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Posted March 02 2013 - 12:23 AM

It's entirely superficial and defeats the purpose of the art and how it's made. It's meant to represent a realistic version of what a mech battle will be like. You can stare at your mech in the garage and leave the admiring in gameplay to you enemies while you take them down.

Edited by DoctorSprocket, March 02 2013 - 01:17 AM.


#5 wat

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Posted March 02 2013 - 07:33 AM

wow, relax friends


If anything -

- replay viewer that lets me find moments for screenshots
- in game spectator mode that lets us view from 1st person, 3rd with rotating camera, and free-roam camera


Here are some examples of what I am suggesting -
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Perhaps if unranked / free play servers become available one day, it can be an option in only those servers.


I understand that the game needs to be competetive, so some kind of third person ala Skyrim where the camera floats high above and gives a wide view of things would break things like surprises around corners, etc.  But a tight enough view would be a close approximation of first person anyway - and would not be that much different in terms of visibility.  

Even if you guys feel strongly that it would hurt balance, can you at least admit that the game is beautiful and that the reason a lot of people play games is to enjoy the scenery and the art_  Couldn't we think of ways to satisfy that need without sticking to dogma like "You can stare at your mech in the garage and leave the admiring in gameplay to you enemies while you take them down."_

Edited by wat, March 02 2013 - 07:45 AM.


#6 Beefsweat

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Posted March 02 2013 - 01:05 PM

Do not want 3rd person views for gameplay. I agree with 3rd-person views for spectator mode, however.
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#7 Beemann

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Posted March 02 2013 - 01:09 PM

3rd person of any variety in-game confers a higher level of situational awareness and becomes a necessity so long as they don't bugger up the aiming in that mode (which is not an appropriate "fix")
3rd person in spectate and the like is fine
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#8 BlackCephie

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Posted March 02 2013 - 02:19 PM

My god...enough with the third person fuzzy bunny already
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#9 DoctorSprocket

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Posted March 02 2013 - 04:17 PM

View Postwat, on March 02 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

wow, relax friends


If anything -

- replay viewer that lets me find moments for screenshots
- in game spectator mode that lets us view from 1st person, 3rd with rotating camera, and free-roam camera


Perhaps if unranked / free play servers become available one day, it can be an option in only those servers.


I understand that the game needs to be competetive, so some kind of third person ala Skyrim where the camera floats high above and gives a wide view of things would break things like surprises around corners, etc.  But a tight enough view would be a close approximation of first person anyway - and would not be that much different in terms of visibility.  

Even if you guys feel strongly that it would hurt balance, can you at least admit that the game is beautiful and that the reason a lot of people play games is to enjoy the scenery and the art_  Couldn't we think of ways to satisfy that need without sticking to dogma like "You can stare at your mech in the garage and leave the admiring in gameplay to you enemies while you take them down."_
I realised I may have come off as aggressive and it was not my intention.

I can agree to a replay viewer and spectator mode. However while you're playing you should only be able to do so in first person. They spent time making the movement inside feel like a mech. A 3rd person view could not have that without seeming weird (having the camera move all clunky like a tank with legs while you look at it from a 3rd person perspective for no apparent reason) the only way you could have 3rd person is to stabilise the camera defeating the purpose of having it feel real not to mention making aiming much smoother over 1st person.

It would be a choice between feeling like you're piloting a mech and having smoother aiming and a larger view to compensate for having a mech in the middle of your screen (or off-center).

But I digress.

Perhaps there is a better option, one no one is giving attention. Imagine for a moment you were a mech pilot, you would not spend time and money pimping out your mechs paint job and custom plating when it's probably going to be riddled with bullets anyway

Why not have a customizable cockpit_ The same way you'd do in your car with bobble heads and fuzzy dice (not those specifically, but you get the idea). It would feel so much more like your own mech and would give it a feeling of character. You could have pictures stuck to the inside of the mech with images you input yourself.

Edited by DoctorSprocket, March 02 2013 - 04:33 PM.


#10 DM30

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Posted March 02 2013 - 08:57 PM

The big issue for me with a third-person view is one that I saw come up in a Mechwarrior 4 forum a while back, where there were comments on people using third-person to get missile-lock on enemies from behind the lip of a hill, allowing them to fire volleys while hardly/never revealing themselves. While I realize that Hawken is pretty much nothing like Mechwarrior, I could see the same thing being done with Hellfires: Peek past the lip of a hill/obstruction, get lock, flick aim upward and fire, all while keeping most/all of your mech hidden from view.

Have the camera offset sideways instead of upwards_ Substitute 'hill' for 'corner' and you have basically the same thing.

As others have said, some kind of spectator mode or replay mode would be completely fine, but I'd rather not have it as an in-play option myself.

If someone's really that desperate to see their cosmetics in the thick of battle, you can always try Youtube. With how many gameplay vids have been uploaded, you'd be surprised how you might see yourself by complete chance. I have, and I can tell you that the green camo on my 'Zerker looked mighty fine then. :P You never know.

Edited by DM30, March 02 2013 - 08:59 PM.


#11 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted March 02 2013 - 10:41 PM

View Postwat, on March 02 2013 - 07:33 AM, said:

- stuff -

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Quote

HAWKEN is a... mech-based first-person shooter

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mech-based first-person shooter

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first-person shooter

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first-person shooter

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first-person shooter

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FIRST PERSON SHOOTER

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

The Sinful Infil HEAT Cannon Hustler, Cloaking and Smoking, C-Class Swagger, Ballin' n' Brawlin'


#12 PlagueDoctor

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Posted March 02 2013 - 10:58 PM

Guys I think its a first person shooter


also my palm sweat smells funny


I think it is 1000's of money. IT IS 1000,s OF MONEY!!!.


#13 Pirits

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Posted March 02 2013 - 11:53 PM

Even if it was a handicap to play in first person as compared to third, I'd use first...

...CAUSE I'M PRO!!! B) ;) :P :D (insert more epic smiles here)

But I consider it a crutch even if someone uses a mech below 2.5 stars difficulty and 2.5 stars is pushing the limit.
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#14 Beemann

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Posted March 03 2013 - 01:09 AM

View PostPirits, on March 02 2013 - 11:53 PM, said:

But I consider it a crutch even if someone uses a mech below 2.5 stars difficulty and 2.5 stars is pushing the limit.
Considering the classes that make up 3 and 4 star rankings, I'm not too concerned with the "difficulty rating"

Edited by Beemann, March 03 2013 - 01:10 AM.

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#15 Pirits

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Posted March 03 2013 - 04:38 PM

View PostBeemann, on March 03 2013 - 01:09 AM, said:

View PostPirits, on March 02 2013 - 11:53 PM, said:

But I consider it a crutch even if someone uses a mech below 2.5 stars difficulty and 2.5 stars is pushing the limit.
Considering the classes that make up 3 and 4 star rankings, I'm not too concerned with the "difficulty rating"

Yeah, you're right about that, but it dose take some thinking to use them, especially after this upcoming patch.
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​On a separate note - "Cover me, I'm commentating."
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#16 SilentJacket

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Posted March 03 2013 - 06:51 PM

you guys are starting to act like [REDACTED]

on topic:

Aesthetically, 3rd person would be amazing, and would defiantly justify spending money on aesthetics

however, gameplay is much more important, and for that reason, I feel that 1st person is best

you can always admire yourself when you repair, that's what I do :P

Posted Image


#17 Beefsweat

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Posted March 03 2013 - 09:30 PM

I say they just give us spectator mode already. <_<
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#18 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted March 03 2013 - 09:40 PM

View PostBeefsweat, on March 03 2013 - 09:30 PM, said:

I say they just give us spectator mode already. <_<
It's not like it's currently in the works, but the current form is in no way ready to go live.
OH WAIT

EDIT: Seriously, if they implemented it now, it would likely just end up with tons of people bitching about how spec mode sucks, ignoring the fact that it's unfinished.

Edited by AsianJoyKiller, March 03 2013 - 09:41 PM.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

The Sinful Infil HEAT Cannon Hustler, Cloaking and Smoking, C-Class Swagger, Ballin' n' Brawlin'


#19 The_Silencer

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Posted March 03 2013 - 09:49 PM

Third view_ Nopers, please.

Although I'd like to go back to the old repair cam. This one makes feel like too much exposed while I repair.. this is another subject though.. I know. :)

Posted Image

.

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#20 Beefsweat

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Posted March 03 2013 - 09:55 PM

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on March 03 2013 - 09:40 PM, said:

It's not like it's currently in the works, but the current form is in no way ready to go live.
OH WAIT

EDIT: Seriously, if they implemented it now, it would likely just end up with tons of people bitching about how spec mode sucks, ignoring the fact that it's unfinished.

but I want it NOW
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