HAWKEN servers are up and our latest minor update is live!
Forgot Password_ SUPPORT REDEEM CODE

Jump to content


Analyzing the Raider Patch

Community Beta News Patch Video

  • Please log in to reply
259 replies to this topic

#21 Beemann

Beemann

    Sentient Wall-of-Text

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,974 posts
  • LocationVancouver, BC

Posted March 05 2013 - 06:37 PM

View PostBlackCephie, on March 05 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

I disagree. I would argue that being able to refill your fuel guage is still very strong, and though a raider could catch a scout, it would have to secure the kill in chase. Failing to do so means you are left with little fuel, so a duel at the end of said chase has the raiden at a disadvantage. So you CAN chase and outrun a scout, but given variable circumstance, its not always in your best interest to do so. I can see Raider pilots being greedy, and charging after a target just cuz they can, only to find that it was bait, at which point they have no fuel to escape the ambush.

EOC is insane, but I welcome it. B classes needed the burst damage class, and I would say that the EOC, though formidable, doesn't necessarily give you THE edge over, say an EOC Inf.
Fastest speed in the game+shooting at that speed > adding more fuel, end of story
If you cant secure a kill on someone running in a straight line, this isn't the game for you
If you can't kill someone during the chase with a total initial burst of 450, then this isn't the game for you
If you seriously run in and get "trapped" in a comp mach, then maybe comp isn't for you

The EOC is insane and should not be welcomed. A primary that does more damage than a secondary is absurd. Additionally, both fires on the secondary are better than the GL


View PostvVolfgang, on March 05 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

^ this. you already have a scout pilot (clearly) crying when that A class dominated pre this patch. bless the devs for creating the raider. <3
I've already outleveled my scout on my raider, if that's any indication
Posted Image

C-Class Swagger
Ballin' and Brawlin'
Cloakin' and Smokin'

#22 N0stalgia

N0stalgia

    Advanced Member

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 570 posts
  • LocationSan Diego, California

Posted March 05 2013 - 06:57 PM

Played 1 match with the raider and felt immediately that it was OP. Just sayin'

Badass mech though. Cool weapons. It needs serious balance.
Call me Nos.

#23 SilentJacket

SilentJacket

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,590 posts
  • LocationInstallation 00b

Posted March 05 2013 - 07:01 PM

View PostN0stalgia, on March 05 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

Played 1 match with the raider and felt immediately that it was OP. Just sayin'

Badass mech though. Cool weapons. It needs serious balance.

Really_

I played a siege map where I just mowed them over in my bruiser

The raider's roll is rather specialized

Posted Image


#24 BlackCephie

BlackCephie

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 665 posts
  • LocationWashington D.C.

Posted March 05 2013 - 07:03 PM

View PostBeemann, on March 05 2013 - 06:37 PM, said:

View PostBlackCephie, on March 05 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

I disagree. I would argue that being able to refill your fuel guage is still very strong, and though a raider could catch a scout, it would have to secure the kill in chase. Failing to do so means you are left with little fuel, so a duel at the end of said chase has the raiden at a disadvantage. So you CAN chase and outrun a scout, but given variable circumstance, its not always in your best interest to do so. I can see Raider pilots being greedy, and charging after a target just cuz they can, only to find that it was bait, at which point they have no fuel to escape the ambush.

EOC is insane, but I welcome it. B classes needed the burst damage class, and I would say that the EOC, though formidable, doesn't necessarily give you THE edge over, say an EOC Inf.
Fastest speed in the game+shooting at that speed > adding more fuel, end of story
If you cant secure a kill on someone running in a straight line, this isn't the game for you
If you can't kill someone during the chase with a total initial burst of 450, then this isn't the game for you
If you seriously run in and get "trapped" in a comp mach, then maybe comp isn't for you

The EOC is insane and should not be welcomed. A primary that does more damage than a secondary is absurd. Additionally, both fires on the secondary are better than the GL


View PostvVolfgang, on March 05 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

^ this. you already have a scout pilot (clearly) crying when that A class dominated pre this patch. bless the devs for creating the raider. <3
I've already outleveled my scout on my raider, if that's any indication

TL:DR- they gave the raider great chasing ability, but in a game where chasing will often get you killed. I feel that the way the game is designed provides an inherent checks and balances to the raiders ability.

Lol again, id have to disagree.
Raider ability greater than scout ability_ Id say not necessarily.

First of all, who says you are chasing someone who is sticking to a straight path_

Who says you landed 450 total burst initially_ And if so, and they bolt, and you chase now you have to envision chasing someone down with close range weaponry OR the eoc.

-if you are using the reflak or bolt, you first have to close the distance in order to do ANY damage. So let's say you do. Now let's say they turn a corner, are more than a shot away from death, and you now have zero fuel because you chased. They pop their gas, now ur fuzzy bunny. Not every map is sahara, and there are plenty of ways to duck and dodge a chasing opponent.

-using EOC_ Cool. Now you are chasing a moving target that may be intelligent enough to not get shot in the back with a full chain. Shoot them in front_ Good idea, of course they saw where the pucks went so a sode dodge to reroute still nets you little to no damage. Finish them with corsair. Possible, then again they could still anticipate and turn the tide, whether it be because you chased them across the map, OR an enemy teammate intevened.

Point is, we will only be able to determine this greater/less/equal to scout ability through more testing, and specifically situational conditioning. I think that trying to abuse the chasing capabilities of the raider is more likely to get more raider pilots killed than the other way around. You ever chase someone in this game_ Of course you have. it gets ugly often times, and I don't mean for the chasee.

Edited by BlackCephie, March 05 2013 - 07:11 PM.

Posted Image

#25 Command0Dude

Command0Dude

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 153 posts

Posted March 05 2013 - 07:32 PM

Oh god. Here comes the new scout. Looking at that speed...just...Yeah, not only can it go faster than any other mech, but it can ALSO fire while boosting_ Pick one or the other, both is just OP.

#26 Sylhiri

Sylhiri

    Advanced Member

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,135 posts

Posted March 05 2013 - 08:06 PM

I think the EOC can be a little bit too much from what it was before ONLY because you can now combine floor mines with actual direct shots. The skill for direct shots is still there and you get rewarded for such and you can also trap escaping mechs (even though it overheats like a bugger, lol). I personally wouldn't mind a 5 damage explosive decrease (per mine) for the EOC just to help reduce the effectiveness of the floor+direct shot combo. I would have to see mechs use it at level 25 for a month to fully say what it now is capable of.

[13:14] <nonsiccus_work> uh oh

there's gravy in my keyboard

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[11:18] <+shosca> if you wanna play ar, go play zerker
[11:18] <Hyginos> and if you want to play zerker, go smc
[11:19] <someone> if you want to play sustain, please go and die in hell


#27 CaptainSoviet

CaptainSoviet

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 29 posts

Posted March 05 2013 - 08:18 PM

I like this mech. It makes for very good target practice. I especially love it when it uses it's ability, for it looks quite a derp before silently exploding into just a mere few fragments on the battlefield. I'm somewhat indifferent to it's abilities and weapons, as people have not yet developed the cqc playstyle to counter them quite yet. I have found the best counter to this mech is to shoot it. I enjoy saving my damage pop for this mech in particular. I want to make raiders stop playing raiders :D
“Sometimes the questions are complicated and the answers are simple.”
Dr. Seuss

"More gg, more skill." -Whitera

#28 nokari

nokari

    Advanced Member

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,557 posts
  • LocationSan Francisco

Posted March 05 2013 - 08:24 PM

I'm at level 19 with the Raider right now. I can say it gets pretty damn fast (really chaotic when you get two guys blitzing at each other and trying to circle), but all things considered, I'm still not sure I like it over my Scout yet. It's still a B-class and after spending over a month in a Scout, I say it's about as fast as driving a couch. Hopefully after filling out all my optimizations, it will be much better.

Edited by nokari, March 05 2013 - 08:26 PM.

Posted Image


#29 NY_TimeBombTimmy

NY_TimeBombTimmy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 61 posts
  • LocationB-LO

Posted March 05 2013 - 08:24 PM

To put it simply, this patch might make this game unplayable for me. Shooting while boosting are you f-ing kidding me_ I thought the scout was bad speed wise, now the raider is introduced with a special ability that straight ruins everything else. I miss the calculated fights, not "I'm twice as fast as you lol" fights. C-class mechs have been dismissed from school.
/rant

#30 Beemann

Beemann

    Sentient Wall-of-Text

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,974 posts
  • LocationVancouver, BC

Posted March 05 2013 - 08:31 PM

View PostBlackCephie, on March 05 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

TL:DR- they gave the raider great chasing ability, but in a game where fleeing will often get you killed.
FYP

View PostBlackCephie, on March 05 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

First of all, who says you are chasing someone who is sticking to a straight path_
The mechanics of boosting_ You're forced into straight or near straight lines. Anything else means the Raider doesn't have to use its abilty

View PostBlackCephie, on March 05 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

Who says you landed 450 total burst initially_ And if so, and they bolt, and you chase now you have to envision chasing someone down with close range weaponry OR the eoc.
The fact that you're fleeing states that either you are damaged, or you're going to get damaged

View PostBlackCephie, on March 05 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

using EOC_ Cool. Now you are chasing a moving target that may be intelligent enough to not get shot in the back with a full chain. Shoot them in front_ Good idea, of course they saw where the pucks went so a sode dodge to reroute still nets you little to no damage.
This shows a lack of understanding concerning the non-existence of ESP, the EOC's current mechanics, and how easy it is to catch up and shoot at a target moving slowly on a relative level
Posted Image

C-Class Swagger
Ballin' and Brawlin'
Cloakin' and Smokin'

#31 HugeGuts

HugeGuts

    Advanced Member

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 629 posts

Posted March 05 2013 - 08:54 PM

After playing the Scout and Raider side by side, I say the Scout is still the best at close combat. The Flak Cannon is better than both of the new shotguns.

The ReFLAK-35 doesn't do a lot of damage, and ricochet doesn't seem to hit anything even when I know something is right around the corner. The T32-BOLT also doesn't do a lot of damage, and charging it doesn't seem to noticeably increase damage either. Meanwhile the Flak Cannon shoots faster and harder than a charged T32-BOLT at the cost of extra heat, but that's not a problem. The way they are now makes me think the Scout and Raider should switch primaries.

However, while the Scout is still the best at close combat, running from a Raider is hilariously impossible. Blitz is going to completely change the game. I have a feeling it will be the next EMP - Something with a mechanic so powerful, no amount of numbers adjusting will balance it. It's either overpowered or nearly useless.

Edited by HugeGuts, March 06 2013 - 05:07 AM.


#32 145154151164145

145154151164145

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 384 posts

Posted March 05 2013 - 10:10 PM

Raider game play goes like this:

activate ability, lol at A class
get shot at, activate ability, SEEE YA
someones dying, activate ability, MY KILL

#33 ReachH

ReachH

    Advanced Member

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,459 posts
  • LocationUK

Posted March 05 2013 - 10:52 PM

Noone has mentioned how stupid Hellfires are now. It has become HAWKEN's noob tube, except it requires even less skill, and has no advanced tricks (anymore).

Edited by ReachH, March 05 2013 - 10:52 PM.

View Post[HWK]HUGHES, on October 23 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

Development happens.


Posted Image


#34 The_Eldritch_Abomination

The_Eldritch_Abomination

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,055 posts
  • LocationDATA REDACTED

Posted March 05 2013 - 11:06 PM

That... is fast.
< TEXT-FIELD >

#35 draco7891

draco7891

    El Tigre

  • Full Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 458 posts
  • LocationCA, USA

Posted March 05 2013 - 11:07 PM

View PostSaturnine, on March 05 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

There actually is a speedometer on your hud! Normal boost speed for an unlevelled Raider is 28.5 units (I think they are KPH...), and with the boost active it rises to 44 units. Walk speed is... ~18_ That walk and boost will be consistent across B classes.

Speedo is in Meters per second (it's in very small text at the bottom).

Fun fact: 44 m/s is as fast as an A-class dodge. So imagine an 8 second dodge, in a Scout, while being able to fire forward.

Another fun fact: B-class dodge is 40.5 m/s.

Draco

#36 GN010

GN010

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 193 posts
  • LocationPH GMT+8

Posted March 06 2013 - 12:24 AM

Blitz makes Raider like a Mech with Alien technology I think.
public enum MECHS {
SHARPSHOOTER_LV25, REAPER_LV25, SCOUT_LV25, BRUISER_LV25, BRUISER_LV25, ROCKETEER_LV25, CRT_RECRUIT_LV20,
BRAWLER_LV1, GRENADIER_LV11
};//GN010 current mechs, plays @ us-west servers but located in gmt+8. @author gn010 @since 12/2012

#37 Jintonic

Jintonic

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 453 posts

Posted March 06 2013 - 12:39 AM

Quote

Makes me wish the cockpit had a speedometer... and a boost gauge
there actually is a speedometer, to the right of crosshair

#38 FighterHayabusa

FighterHayabusa

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 56 posts

Posted March 06 2013 - 12:52 AM

View PostBeemann, on March 05 2013 - 06:37 PM, said:

View PostBlackCephie, on March 05 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

I disagree. I would argue that being able to refill your fuel guage is still very strong, and though a raider could catch a scout, it would have to secure the kill in chase. Failing to do so means you are left with little fuel, so a duel at the end of said chase has the raiden at a disadvantage. So you CAN chase and outrun a scout, but given variable circumstance, its not always in your best interest to do so. I can see Raider pilots being greedy, and charging after a target just cuz they can, only to find that it was bait, at which point they have no fuel to escape the ambush.

EOC is insane, but I welcome it. B classes needed the burst damage class, and I would say that the EOC, though formidable, doesn't necessarily give you THE edge over, say an EOC Inf.
Fastest speed in the game+shooting at that speed > adding more fuel, end of story
If you cant secure a kill on someone running in a straight line, this isn't the game for you
If you can't kill someone during the chase with a total initial burst of 450, then this isn't the game for you
If you seriously run in and get "trapped" in a comp mach, then maybe comp isn't for you

The EOC is insane and should not be welcomed. A primary that does more damage than a secondary is absurd. Additionally, both fires on the secondary are better than the GL


View PostvVolfgang, on March 05 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

^ this. you already have a scout pilot (clearly) crying when that A class dominated pre this patch. bless the devs for creating the raider. <3
I've already outleveled my scout on my raider, if that's any indication

Ah, I love seeing people talk down to others in order to try and make a point.  Here, let me try:  If you get chased down, maybe this isn't the game for you.

If you turn your back to a Raider and try to run, then you're only getting what you asked for.  The ability doesn't mean very much if they stand and fight, which is what you should actually do against one.

#39 Beemann

Beemann

    Sentient Wall-of-Text

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,974 posts
  • LocationVancouver, BC

Posted March 06 2013 - 01:01 AM

View PostFighterHayabusa, on March 06 2013 - 12:52 AM, said:

Ah, I love seeing people talk down to others in order to try and make a point.  Here, let me try:  If you get chased down, maybe this isn't the game for you.

If you turn your back to a Raider and try to run, then you're only getting what you asked for.  The ability doesn't mean very much if they stand and fight, which is what you should actually do against one.
If you'll note, the conversation was about the scout's ability and running away, and that the raider outruns A mechs
If you could, in the future, read everything, that'd be great (and I mean that sincerely. I find these sorts of post annoying to reply to, as they hold up the conversation)
Additionally, my point was already made with the video and weapon stats
Posted Image

C-Class Swagger
Ballin' and Brawlin'
Cloakin' and Smokin'

#40 ShadowSkulkerer

ShadowSkulkerer

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 45 posts

Posted March 06 2013 - 01:11 AM

View PostBeemann, on March 06 2013 - 01:01 AM, said:

View PostFighterHayabusa, on March 06 2013 - 12:52 AM, said:

Ah, I love seeing people talk down to others in order to try and make a point.  Here, let me try:  If you get chased down, maybe this isn't the game for you.

If you turn your back to a Raider and try to run, then you're only getting what you asked for.  The ability doesn't mean very much if they stand and fight, which is what you should actually do against one.
If you'll note, the conversation was about the scout's ability and running away, and that the raider outruns A mechs
If you could, in the future, read everything, that'd be great (and I mean that sincerely. I find these sorts of post annoying to reply to, as they hold up the conversation)
Additionally, my point was already made with the video and weapon stats

I think his main point and at any rate mine is just that you're being jerkish.

Back on topic, I too have had several crashes since the patch.   Hopefully they stabalize things soon.

Edited by ShadowSkulkerer, March 06 2013 - 01:11 AM.






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Community, Beta, News, Patch, Video

1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users