139 replies to this topic

[AsianJoyKiller]

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on March 10 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

Whatever, I even provided a video made by someone else. You see what you want to see.

Asian...*siGH*...if only you knew what the dev's think of your attitude....

Well last time Scapes or Hugs joined my Mumble, I didn't hear them saying I need to tone it down...

[rdKNIGHTMAREZ]

Quote

My favorite part was when he made personal attacks.

That's .....counter-attacks.

[AsianJoyKiller]

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on March 10 2013 - 05:37 PM, said:

Quote

My favorite part was when he made personal attacks.

That's .....counter-attacks.

A personal attack made as a counter-attack is still a personal attack.
And as far as counter-attacks go, not very effective.

[Erdos]

Gonna drop this in the active Raider thread:

Erdos, on March 10 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

I'd like to see the Raider's ability replaced by one that boosts its explosion resistance.  Heck, you could even leave in the fire-while-boosting part of the ability.  This would mean the following:

- The Raider would still be better than other B-classes at direct approaches.  Less explosion damage means less damage from TOWs, GLs, unlocked Hellfires, basically all the best ways of punishing a Leeroy.  This is especially true if it stays able to return fire while boosting.

- The Raider would take less self-damage in CQB.  This thing wants to get close, so make it maximally effective there.  Being less afraid of its own rockets would still promote an "in your face" playstyle, maybe even more so than its current ability.

- The ability would still be able to be used defensively.  A Raider at low hp with a barrage of incoming missiles could definitely benefit from popping its ability and fleeing.  This could help a Raider pilot execute some fast and clever hit and run attacks ("Raids," if you will) by shotgunning down one mech in a group, using the ability to survive the inevitable influx of enemy ordnance, and running away.

- The Raider would not be able to move faster than a Scout.  This is my primary beef with the design.  Normally, when you're fighting a larger mech as an A-class, you have the option of at least attempting to beat a hasty retreat when you get low, maybe even bait the enemy into an ambush by your team.  If it's a Raider you're fighting, this is a non-option entirely, and that really sucks.

One last thought: It could be interesting for the ability to have a massive magnitude (75% resistance or more), but a very short duration and a shorter cooldown than other abilities.  This could make it very useful for blocking specific hits if you see them coming, although it might overlap with the dodge mechanic.

Edited by Erdos, March 10 2013 - 05:40 PM.

[Elix]

AsianJoyKiller, on March 10 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on March 10 2013 - 05:37 PM, said:

Quote

My favorite part was when he made personal attacks.

That's .....counter-attacks.

A personal attack made as a counter-attack is still a personal attack.
And as far as counter-attacks go, not very effective.

AJK, you finally have a use for countermeasures!

[Un3thical]

okay raider is strong up close but at range its easy picking, recently i have been enjoying the bruiser ( new optimizations and internals ) so many times i have killed a raider trying to close in on me so many times with out him touching me because helffires are just dandy now and i have the range advantage, yes he has the arcing shot but people arent always accurate with that ( took me a while to get the hang of it ) just don't go up close to a raider if your mech can't handle it.

[Beemann]

I think we need to focus one one main point
IF: The raider is a dual wielding class and is more powerful than other classes as a result
THEN: Dual wielding is overpowered, and shouldnt be in the game
What we just saw was the OP coming clean about the dual wielding thread. Good on ya OP

[Erdos]

Un3thical, on March 10 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

okay raider is strong up close but at range its easy picking, recently i have been enjoying the bruiser ( new optimizations and internals ) so many times i have killed a raider trying to close in on me so many times with out him touching me because helffires are just dandy now and i have the range advantage, yes he has the arcing shot but people arent always accurate with that ( took me a while to get the hang of it ) just don't go up close to a raider if your mech can't handle it.

This is gonna be my standard response for all of the "Just don't fight it 1v1 if you can't hack it" posts: How do you run away from something that boosts faster than an A-class, and can shoot you while doing so_

Edited by Erdos, March 10 2013 - 05:50 PM.

[Erdos]

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on March 10 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

ha ha ha, well i would have 3000+ posts too if i spent my time being a politician and throwing verbal fuzzy bunny at the other players instead of actually addressing their points with any kind of debate. AJK is a cynic. I don't care if you random internet humans like me. I care about Hawken.

provided a video that clearly shows the op-ness and the theory behind it. After he stops wanking on the keyboard maybe ajk will actually finally make some sort of point about the Raider_ ....pft....do i even care if he does._

I'm obviously right and the people who agree don't speak up because they don't want to be on the receiving end of verbal abuse on a forum.

Plenty of us speak up.  We just make our points with more eloquence and fewer fallacies, and receive less verbal abuse as a result.

EDIT: Anyone want to actually talk about the Raider instead of the OP_  Thoughts on removing the speed boost from the ability and adding explosion resistance_

Edited by Erdos, March 10 2013 - 05:58 PM.

[v009]

Yes. Raider had high DPS and they are OP. But only when they are in CQC. Medium to long range the Raider cannot do his business. Yes it  get's EOC at 25 but over 50 metres it's much harder to hit full burst on the target (unless it's an AI pilot). It can use Blitz to close the gap but it will take some damage closing the gap and have less fuel than the enemy afterwards.

[Elix]

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on March 10 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

I'm obviously right

And this, people, is why you don't reply to an rdKNIGHTMAREZ thread.

THREAD OVER. DON'T FEED THE TROLL.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Erdos, on March 10 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

EDIT: Anyone want to actually talk about the Raider instead of the OP_  Thoughts on removing the speed boost from the ability and adding explosion resistance_

That changes how the Raider plays significantly. At that point, you start changing it's role. Changing the ability from mobility to defense, would be similar to swapping on of the Raider's shotguns to a SMC or AR.

[Erdos]

v009, on March 10 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

Yes. Raider had high DPS and they are OP. But only when they are in CQC. Medium to long range the Raider cannot do his business. Yes it  get's EOC at 25 but over 50 metres it's much harder to hit full burst on the target (unless it's an AI pilot). It can use Blitz to close the gap but it will take some damage closing the gap and have less fuel than the enemy afterwards.

How does an A or B class stop the Raider from closing_

Edited by Erdos, March 10 2013 - 06:11 PM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on March 10 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

I'm obviously right

Prove it

[Elix]

[Erdos]

AsianJoyKiller, on March 10 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

That changes how the Raider plays significantly. At that point, you start changing it's role. Changing the ability from mobility to defense, would be similar to swapping on of the Raider's shotguns to a SMC or AR.

Aye, that's the point.  The problem I have with the Raider is that is has the defense of a B-class and the mobility of an A-class (And some would say better, since it can get pushed on demand).

Explosion resistance would let the Raider keep its ability to close gaps in a head-to-head firefight, but would remove the problem of a mech with 675 base armor and two shotguns being impossible to escape from.  A-class mechs are the chasers, not B-class.

EDIT: No, weapon swapping would be very different.  A Raider with explosion resistance still wants to get close to deal significant damage.  A Raider with an AR would have a fair amount of medium-range harassing.

Edited by Erdos, March 10 2013 - 06:19 PM.

[SilentJacket]

Elix, on March 10 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on March 10 2013 - 05:39 PM, said:

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on March 10 2013 - 05:37 PM, said:

Quote

My favorite part was when he made personal attacks.

That's .....counter-attacks.

A personal attack made as a counter-attack is still a personal attack.
And as far as counter-attacks go, not very effective.

AJK, you finally have a use for countermeasures!

I wish I could just give this the rest of my likes for the day

[rdKNIGHTMAREZ]

Quote

Prove it!

No...dude. Why don't you prove that it isn't_ Null hypothesis and all that jazz....bully boy....or is it girl_

[Erdos]

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on March 10 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

Quote

Prove it!

No...dude. Why don't you prove that it isn't_ Null hypothesis and all that jazz....bully boy....or is it girl_

You are helping nobody by making these sorts of posts, definitely not people who would like to see the Raider changed, and least of all yourself.  Please stop.

[Elix]

Elix, on March 10 2013 - 06:06 PM, said: