16 replies to this topic

[CaliberMengsk]

Not a good thing btw. I've had this issue a few months now. I didn't report it as a bug because someone already did, and several other people replied saying the same thing. I took a video to show what I mean.


I looked through the older posts, and someone said this was intentional. If this is intentional, then it's total fuzzy bunny. You should not be penalized for having fast reflexes in a game based on reflexes and skill. If I move at full speed, it takes around 10-15 full mouse pad movements just to spin around once. I can understand that there should be a limit to the speed, but if I can move my mouse a small amount and move 4 times faster then moving the fastest, then it's broken.

Please fix this. It's not a setting (deleted settings several times), and it's not my computer and mouse settings on the os, because no other games do this. Please please please fix it.

EDIT:
I should state, this is not a turn speed cap. If it were the turn speed cap, I would move the same distance as I would if it were moving slow. This is not at all right. I can understand a speed cap, I'm not an idiot, but if I move a faster speed over the same duration of time, I should not move at a slower rate. This is negative acceleration. I've played plenty of games with a turn speed cap, and they do not feel the same. I move slower the faster I move, not the same rate the faster I move.

Please don't just disregard this as someone that doesn't know what they are talking about. I have been playing FPS games since the original doom, as well, I develop games in my spare time. I know the technical parts behind it, and this is not a turn speed cap.

Edited by CaliberMengsk, May 20 2013 - 08:45 PM.

[Ashfire908]

Turn rate is capped, any input over the cap is just gonna be ignored. You could spin the mouse 100 times, it's not gonna care. This gives the illusion of some sort of negative mouse acceleration. I overaim in hawken pretty hard, and when I switched to another game (happened to be Warframe), I went to turn left about 90 degrees and promptly did a 720.

Also, the post you are referencing was about how the aiming used to not be limited in speed in a small range in all directions, eg, if you were not moving your aim, and then changed where you were pointing, there was a small area where there was no limit applied, until you were outside the range, and it starts getting limited. It was the moving your eyes vs moving your body type of system: you can move your eyes in a range, but to go outside that you need to move your head, which takes longer. This system was removed for consistency, because everyone thought it was negative mouse acceleration rather than whatever is a short name for what ^ is.

In the video, I just see turn capping, though it's really hard to tell what the inputs are from just recording the game.

[ArnieF4440]

can you try another mouse if you have one and tell us what mouse and mouse settings you have

[chrissphinx]

CaliberMengsk, on May 20 2013 - 07:58 PM, said:

Please don't just disregard this as someone that doesn't know what they are talking about. I have been playing FPS games since the original doom, as well, I develop games in my spare time. I know the technical parts behind it, and this is not a turn speed cap.

except that it is

[AsianJoyKiller]

The problem with Hawken is that there's no indication that you've hit the cap, or how close to hitting the cap you are.

MWO actually has solved this problem by having an indicator on the HUD.

[ArnieF4440]

AsianJoyKiller, on May 20 2013 - 10:57 PM, said:

MWO actually has solved this problem by having an indicator on the HUD.

that might actually be a good idea. Would certainly be useful

[Ashfire908]

AsianJoyKiller, on May 20 2013 - 10:57 PM, said:

The problem with Hawken is that there's no indication that you've hit the cap, or how close to hitting the cap you are.

MWO actually has solved this problem by having an indicator on the HUD.

Actually there is an indicator. Arrows appear on the crosshairs area on the side that the movement is being capped in. Look in the video. When he turns right, two arrows, one at the top, one at the bottom, pointing to the right appear.

These are really hard to see though, they need to be way more noticeable than they are, though not get in the way.

[Ashfire908]

Apparently no one else ever saw those marks before, so here's some screenshots of what I'm talking about:







And before you post "I've never gotten it before", yes you have. It's been there for many months, it's just that hard to notice.

[Fantus_Longhorn]

Just to confirm what Ashfire908 is saying, that indicator has been there for ages.

Also, when it comes to a turn-rate cap, what you need to pay attention to is how long you're moving the mouse for, not how far. Those movements where you (Caliber) were moving across the entire pad were a split-second so only a split-second's worth of movement was recognized. Moving slower across the same distance will get you more movement because you have spent longer moving your mouse at a lower speed, there is more total movement to be recognized (less is above the max speed which is just ignored).

Edited by Fantus_Longhorn, May 21 2013 - 12:16 AM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Ashfire908, on May 20 2013 - 11:45 PM, said:

And before you post "I've never gotten it before", yes you have. It's been there for many months, it's just that hard to notice.

No need for attitude...

[Ashfire908]

AsianJoyKiller, on May 21 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

Ashfire908, on May 20 2013 - 11:45 PM, said:

And before you post "I've never gotten it before", yes you have. It's been there for many months, it's just that hard to notice.

No need for attitude...

Wasn't directed at you (nor anyone in this thread), when I told the people I was chatting with at the time about it they were very adamant that they never had that before.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Ashfire908, on May 21 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on May 21 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

Ashfire908, on May 20 2013 - 11:45 PM, said:

And before you post "I've never gotten it before", yes you have. It's been there for many months, it's just that hard to notice.

No need for attitude...

Wasn't directed at you (nor anyone in this thread), when I told the people I was chatting with at the time about it they were very adamant that they never had that before.

Ah. Right then.

[CaliberMengsk]

The reason this is not a speed cap, is because if I move my mouse say, an inch over a half a second, I turn quite a bit, but if I move my mouse the entire mouse pad for the same duration of time (a half a second), I move much less of a rotation.

Rotational speed caps are common in many games, whether in tanks, or helicopters, or turrets. I know what speed caps feel like. Most people know what speed caps feel like. The difference is, I'm not moving at the same consistent speed if I move fast. I turn faster if I move slower. It's not about distance I'm not saying that I move slower because I move farther. I move slower because I move faster, not I move the same speed because I move faster.

I understand a turn speed cap completely, and this is not the same thing.

[Fantus_Longhorn]

I'm going to have a proper look at this later tonight, make some recordings and measure distance and time.

I'll post back here with some results and videos once I've had a proper chance to test this.

[Jintonic]

Ashfire908, on May 20 2013 - 11:45 PM, said:

Apparently no one else ever saw those marks before, so here's some screenshots of what I'm talking about:


And before you post "I've never gotten it before", yes you have. It's been there for many months, it's just that hard to notice.

i didnt even notice speedometer before people told me

CaliberMengsk, on May 21 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

The reason this is not a speed cap, is because if I move my mouse say, an inch over a half a second, I turn quite a bit, but if I move my mouse the entire mouse pad for the same duration of time (a half a second), I move much less of a rotation.

this sounds like you got mouse acceleration turnd on

Edited by Jintonic, May 21 2013 - 11:39 AM.

[CaliberMengsk]

If I have acceleration on, it's not in the hawken settings as well it's not in the windows settings.

[Fantus_Longhorn]

Fantus_Longhorn, on May 21 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

I'm going to have a proper look at this later tonight, make some recordings and measure distance and time.

I'll post back here with some results and videos once I've had a proper chance to test this.

So, I made some recordings and got this result:



This is two recordings of mouse movement at different speeds which I merged together (repeated 3 times so you get a chance to see everything); There is absolutely no difference for me. I have mouse smoothing off and I have mouse sensitivity on 25. The dpi on my mouse is 1260 in both cases.

The slower movement is literally on the borderline of the movement cap, the faster movement goes far beyond it. I didn't post a video of movement below the cap as it was obviously slower.


Edit: A key point that I would like to make is that the we are constantly being told that the feel of the game is what they want feedback on. So, on that basis, if it feels like the input isn't responding in a constant manner then that is the feedback we should provide.

Edited by Fantus_Longhorn, May 22 2013 - 03:44 AM.