583 replies to this topic

[ReachH]

h0B0, on August 14 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

ecaflip, on August 14 2013 - 07:17 PM, said:

There isn't much of an accomplishment when it comes to grinding for hours on end to finally get a fully equipped mech. Accomplishment should be brought about through actual game play and not chasing a carrot through the veil of "progression"

I just want to bring more attention to this statement. How true this is. What hawken needs after a new progression system is comp support. Keep the player invested after he has grinded all there is to grind.

Yeh, everyone knows that level progression and items are a dead end.

Competition and community is what drives a game after a few months.

[ChemicalX]

ReachH, on August 14 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

h0B0, on August 14 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

ecaflip, on August 14 2013 - 07:17 PM, said:

There isn't much of an accomplishment when it comes to grinding for hours on end to finally get a fully equipped mech. Accomplishment should be brought about through actual game play and not chasing a carrot through the veil of "progression"

I just want to bring more attention to this statement. How true this is. What hawken needs after a new progression system is comp support. Keep the player invested after he has grinded all there is to grind.

Yeh, everyone knows that level progression and items are a dead end.

Competition and community is what drives a game after a few months.

We also need to remember that they will be adding more maps, game modes, mechs, higher lvl caps, things of that nature! So far they havent done anything wrong in my eyes...but its just such a big change im a bit nervous! Im sure it will be fine though. Perhaps a week or two of getting used to the new lay out.

[phed]

Chancellor, on August 14 2013 - 08:55 PM, said:

I sure hope I have to level my Pilot, I dont want everything done for me because I've played so much already.

i am of the opposite opinion.

[Chancellor]

phed, on August 14 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

Chancellor, on August 14 2013 - 08:55 PM, said:

I sure hope I have to level my Pilot, I dont want everything done for me because I've played so much already.

i am of the opposite opinion.

Really_ You'd rather just coast into the end game instead of having something else to work towards_

[ecaflip]

Chancellor, on August 14 2013 - 09:29 PM, said:

Really_ You'd rather just coast into the end game instead of having something else to work towards_

I certainly would, less time worrying about numbers and more time worrying about pulling off trickshots with hellfire missiles

[ReachH]

ChemicalX, on August 14 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

higher lvl caps

Oh God no. The more they want to incentivise us with meaningless garbage like more mech levels, and cod style progression, the more I want to put down the game.

I am not stupid, the l00t level carrot doesn't work on me. If I want a good loot grind, I'll go play diablo 3, and then cry about how its not diablo 2.

Its nothing personal, and if they want to suddenly change the genre of the game from 'competitive mech fps' to 'online mech action rpg', then I am not interested.

[Chancellor]

ReachH, on August 14 2013 - 09:32 PM, said:

ChemicalX, on August 14 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

higher lvl caps

Oh God no. The more they want to incentivise us with meaningless garbage like more mech levels, and cod style progression, the more I want to put down the game.

I am not stupid, the l00t level carrot doesn't work on me. If I want a good loot grind, I'll go play diablo 3, and then cry about how its not diablo 2.

Its nothing personal, and if they want to suddenly change the genre of the game from 'competitive mech fps' to 'online mech action rpg', then I am not interested.

I miss D2. :c

ecaflip, on August 14 2013 - 09:31 PM, said:

Chancellor, on August 14 2013 - 09:29 PM, said:

Really_ You'd rather just coast into the end game instead of having something else to work towards_

I certainly would, less time worrying about numbers and more time worrying about pulling off trickshots with hellfire missiles

You're not MexichanMan.

[ReachH]

It feels like HWK are behind the curve when designing these out of game extras like progression and whatnot. Valve have long since moved on from the TF2 style model.

Both Dota 2 and CS:GO follow the mantra that unlockables and items and paid investment should have 0 impact on actual competitive gameplay. They should be for user experience only. Their games focus on the core competition, and build the user experience around that.

Appealing to casuals is done through special matchmaking options, and different rulesets (team damage off, more money, everyone has kevlar+helmet etc.), the core game is left alone. Therefore anyone can pick up the game and compete, and most importantly, be competitive.

The casuals are happy, the dedicated player base is happy, the competitive scene is happy (except the movement mechanics - a core gameplay issue).

tldr; separate progression and user experience things from core gameplay. Levels should unlock badges, skins and models, not weapons, stats, or mechs.

[Sylhiri]

Chancellor, on August 14 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

You're not MexichanMan.

You can be, only if you buy his twelve volume book set "The Nerves to do Curves".

[phed]

Sylhiri, on August 14 2013 - 09:40 PM, said:

Chancellor, on August 14 2013 - 09:36 PM, said:

You're not MexichanMan.

You can be, only if you buy his twelve volume book set "The Nerves to do Curves".

...and spend the same 300 hours behind the seat as him.

that dude seriously has some crazy seat time in that mech.  and practice makes perfect.



on the subject of having to grind out my player level, i very turned off by the prospect.  i feel like my nearly 3million experience points should count as much as the next 3million.

as reachh said (paraphrasing) i'm not donkey, and i don't care for carrots.  that's why i twinked in wow and prefer my shooters free of progression.

on a positive note, the item/internals/customizations look cool.  more freedom of choice in loadout is always good.  and i'm relishing the thought of digging into it.  i'll be able to put my three scouts to good use trying out different combos.

[ReachH]

http://www.youtube.c...eisNZms#t=2m41s

Edited by ReachH, August 14 2013 - 11:44 PM.

[phed]

ReachH, on August 14 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

Relevant:
http://www.youtube.c...eisNZms#t=2m41s

*Can't get it to embed, if someone can do that for me it would be much appreciated*

you just have to paste the link w/o any elipses (...) or media tags.

Edited by phed, August 14 2013 - 10:16 PM.

[phed]

[ecaflip]

ReachH, on August 14 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

Relevant:
http://www.youtube.c...eisNZms#t=2m41s

*Can't get it to embed, if someone can do that for me it would be much appreciated*

broken link

[chuiu]

ReachH, on August 14 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

Relevant:
http://www.youtube.c...eisNZms#t=2m41s

*Can't get it to embed, if someone can do that for me it would be much appreciated*

When you go to paste links on this forum click on the top left button of the edit window (right next to the eraser icon) then paste the link.  I've noticed when you paste the link in the default editing mode it truncates the link and embeds it in a url tag, which sometimes breaks the link itself and also makes it incompatible with the media tags.

Edited by chuiu, August 14 2013 - 11:08 PM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

ReachH, on August 14 2013 - 09:39 PM, said:

It feels like HWK are behind the curve when designing these out of game extras like progression and whatnot. Valve have long since moved on from the TF2 style model.

Both Dota 2 and CS:GO follow the mantra that unlockables and items and paid investment should have 0 impact on actual competitive gameplay. They should be for user experience only. Their games focus on the core competition, and build the user experience around that.

Appealing to casuals is done through special matchmaking options, and different rulesets (team damage off, more money, everyone has kevlar+helmet etc.), the core game is left alone. Therefore anyone can pick up the game and compete, and most importantly, be competitive.

The casuals are happy, the dedicated player base is happy, the competitive scene is happy (except the movement mechanics - a core gameplay issue).

tldr; separate progression and user experience things from core gameplay. Levels should unlock badges, skins and models, not weapons, stats, or mechs.

This this this this thiiisssssssssssssss.
Catering to competitive players and casual players are not mutually exclusive goals. There's no reason to incorporate a leveling system that alienates one group of players and ruins any future of competitive play.

And before someone goes "But AJK, you can't possibly know that this would ruin comp play", name me a shooter that has been competitively successful and uses vertical progression.

[AsianJoyKiller]

chuiu, on August 14 2013 - 11:06 PM, said:

ReachH, on August 14 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

Relevant:
http://www.youtube.c...eisNZms#t=2m41s

*Can't get it to embed, if someone can do that for me it would be much appreciated*

When you go to paste links on this forum click on the top left button of the edit window (right next to the eraser icon) then paste the link.  I've noticed when you paste the link in the default editing mode it truncates the link and embeds it in a url tag, which sometimes breaks the link itself and also makes it incompatible with the media tags.

Embeded videos cannot use the "start at this time" function on these forums.

Edited by AsianJoyKiller, August 14 2013 - 11:08 PM.

[ecaflip]

AsianJoyKiller, on August 14 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

name me a shooter that has been competitively successful and uses vertical progression.

cawadoody

[AsianJoyKiller]

ecaflip, on August 14 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on August 14 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

name me a shooter that has been competitively successful and uses vertical progression.

cawadoody

Fails the "competitively successful" check. CoD comp scene is a joke.

[FuryMonster]

even people playing COD think its a joke