13 replies to this topic

[Silk_Sk]

Over the course of the last few patches I've somewhat lost track of how this weapon compares to the Detonator. I know the MK-III does 180 damage compared to the Detonator's 140. But how does the blast radius compare_ I'd imagine it to be much larger, yet the explosion looks so much smaller. That's definitely something that needs fixing.

Additionally, holding down the fire button for increased velocity isn't nearly as effective as it should be. There is very little appreciable increase in the distance it flies.

[The_Silencer]

I've always thought that you should be able of manually detonating it.

[SeasonzTZK]

The_Silencer, on December 12 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

I've always thought that you should be able of manually detonating it.

This^^ Is all the HE charge needs in my opinion.

[Sylhiri]

The_Silencer, on December 12 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

I've always thought that you should be able of manually detonating it.

HE Detonator_ We got a pocket TOW so why not a pocket GL_ XD

I always voted for HE having a heat generation mechanic, but since a mech is coming out with a **** ton of those, that idea went down the drain >.>

Hold button for projectile speed and/or number of bounces before exploding_

Hell, lets have it hit something and split into three small grenades.

Edited by Sylhiri, December 12 2013 - 09:19 PM.

[Bazookagofer]

As of now it only good for alpha strikes on unexpecting people...

[Houruck]

The_Silencer, on December 12 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

I've always thought that you should be able of manually detonating it.

That would be nice, but it would be almost the same as the detonator.

Detonator is slow moving but you can detonate it in the air.
H.E. Charge has a curve (it can be useful, but mostly it just acts silly bouncing off the HAWKEN virus infected wall geometry) but deals more damage.

I use detonator if my secondary weapon is loading, and H.E. charge for surprise buttsecks situations.

[Muffintrumpet]

in my opinion the HE and the Detonator have between them most of the necessary characteristics to create two unique and differently functional items, it's just a shame that the devs seemed to have missed a trick or two here
for example...

HE (mkIII)
- low velocity, short-medium range lob weapon
- charge shot to increase velocity
- deals 140 feathered damage within a 15m AoE burst
- detonates on mech impact
- manual detonation option

Detonator (mkIII)
- medium velocity, flat trajectory rocket-mine that sticks into the scenery
- arms 2 seconds after impact
- deals 180 feathered damage within a 20m AoE burst
- *manual detonation only*

in my view direct damage dealing items should be pretty hard to land, and should not be the brain-dead pocket-rockets that the Detonators currently are
high damage dealing items should require good situational awareness, timing and worthy levels of utility, just like the current HE isn't

[Sylhiri]

In my opinion I would rather have Deto/HE do an effect or at the very least DoT damage instead of straight up burst damage. One of the main problems with burst damage is that you can combine it into something that instantly ends a fight or gives the other player no chance. At least with DoT you won't get as powerful of an alpha strike (the most you get is primary, secondary and maybe a second of DoT), it could counter Repair Charges, continually degrade shield/barricade hp, help counter tech's sustained healing, etc.

Although if it did have a DoT, the enemy shouldn't lose the ability to manually heal.

It doesn't even need to be a damage DoT, could be a fuel or heat gen DoT.

Edited by Sylhiri, December 13 2013 - 11:26 AM.

[PhysicsCrime]

I always thought that the differences between the two should be something along the lines of what I have listed below.  High explosive charge being highly explosive but not as deadly with a direct hit and the detonator being more dangerous with a direct hit but very weak otherwise.

High Explosive Charge
- 10 damage points*
- 5/10/20 explosion radius* :: inner(10 dmg) / middle(6.7 dmg) / outer(3.3 dmg).
- Does not explode on contact and cannot be manually detonated.  Detonates after 2-3 seconds.
- Slow speed but can be charged to increase velocity.

Detonator
- 15 damage points*
- 0/3/7 explosion radius* :: inner(15 dmg) / middle(7.5 dmg) / outer(2.5 dmg).
- Explodes on a direct hit and can be manually detonated.  Goes forever until it hits something or is detonated.
- Medium speed, cannot be charged

*The "damage points" and "explosion radius" numbers given are not real number and are only for the sake of comparison between the two items.

Edited by PhysicsCrime, December 13 2013 - 11:49 AM.

[Angels]

Make the HE charge into as sort of mine, so that if it comes close enough to an enemy mech it automaticly explodes (perhaps with 1 sec delay or it would be an almost 100% hit with rather high dmg)... lower the dmg and increase the splash + this would make it into a much more interesting option, specially when fired into clusters or used as a normal GL around corners.

[CounterlogicMan]

The HE charge allows for bouncing, higher direct damage, can be charged for greater distance/speed but not equal to that of the detonator.

The detonator has massive splash radius, less damage, faster speed, and fires in a straight line.

They both have advantages and disadvantages. Detonator is more used right now. I can only speculate that it might be because of how easy it is to use when compared to the he charge. HE charge takes a decent amount of skill to land on moving targets. It has a higher skill cap then detonator but with more damage output it is potentially more rewarding. That being said both are extremely useful in similar and different situations.

[PhysicsCrime]

CounterlogicMan, on December 14 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

The HE charge allows for bouncing, higher direct damage, can be charged for greater distance/speed but not equal to that of the detonator.

The detonator has massive splash radius, less damage, faster speed, and fires in a straight line.

That sounds rather opposite to what you would expect from the descriptions.

[Kerc_Kersa]

Sylhiri, on December 13 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

In my opinion I would rather have Deto/HE do an effect or at the very least DoT damage instead of straight up burst damage. One of the main problems with burst damage is that you can combine it into something that instantly ends a fight or gives the other player no chance. At least with DoT you won't get as powerful of an alpha strike (the most you get is primary, secondary and maybe a second of DoT), it could counter Repair Charges, continually degrade shield/barricade hp, help counter tech's sustained healing, etc.

Although if it did have a DoT, the enemy shouldn't lose the ability to manually heal.

It doesn't even need to be a damage DoT, could be a fuel or heat gen DoT.

I agree that the HE needs to be changed from it's burst mode. When I read the lore on the HE charge it says it is made from old mech parts and laced in mech fuel. What if it caught the mech(s) on fire in it's explosion radius and did DoT_ This would make the item quite unique IMO.

[HugeGuts]

I see items eventually separating into three basic categories: Instant Launch, Stationary Deployment, and Mobile Deployment.

Instant launch items like the Detonator, HE Charge, Repair Charge, EMP, and Shield should not directly affect health. They can only work as debuffs or a buff with a big trade off.

For the Detonator and HE Charge, I think the Detonator should have been a knock back and the HE Charge should have been a random debuff.

I also wonder if instant launch items should have multiple versions. They disappear as fast as they appear. They're not like deployables that stick around and potentially have uses outside of their description. Due to instant launch's simplicity, you will probably choose the version with the best power to slot ratio and be done with it.

Edited by HugeGuts, December 30 2013 - 06:45 PM.