12 replies to this topic

[fingerknitter]

So, I am unaware how the tech should be changed (up or op) as I have only just started experimenting with it again HOWEVER:

I think a change that should at some point take place is for the repair torch to generate heat while its active, not just when its damaging or repairing someone. If the tech is considered UP right now, than give it this with some sort of buff because from a DESIGN perspective, I think it needs to be done.

[ropefish]

fingerknitter, on December 19 2013 - 07:18 PM, said:

So, I am unaware how the tech should be changed (up or op) as I have only just started experimenting with it again HOWEVER:

I think a change that should at some point take place is for the repair torch to generate heat while its active, not just when its damaging or repairing someone. If the tech is considered UP right now, than give it this with some sort of buff because from a DESIGN perspective, I think it needs to be done.

that may be the perfect thing >_>

[fingerknitter]

I realized while just playing, and netting 1900 points in a siege game with it, that it is impossible to miss and generate heat with the repair torch, which I think is deeply flawed.

Imagine firing a TOW rocket, and only having it generate heat if it connected with its target!!! Like wut_

It promotes more skillful play, and makes it easier to evade that beam, which can simply be mashed regardless of whether or not you have LoS, or are even facing the right direction.

Problem is...I can't tell if its actually UP in higher level play, and its going to be REALLY hard to ever balance it properly, but if the way it works now is unsatisfactory, I think they should consider being a little adventurous with their changes to it and include this change as a counter balance.

[LostlnPlace]

one tow rocket and a tech is about dead anyway what is the prob_

[fingerknitter]

LostlnPlace, on December 19 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

one tow rocket and a tech is about dead anyway what is the prob_

Do you mind reading what I have to say first, before you make hyperbolic claims_

[burns1124]

fingerknitter, on December 19 2013 - 08:27 PM, said:

LostlnPlace, on December 19 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

one tow rocket and a tech is about dead anyway what is the prob_

Do you mind reading what I have to say first, before you make hyperbolic claims_

It's not hyperbolic, Techs have the 2nd lowest health in the game, a well placed TOW does require them to seek cover or risk being destroyed.  

On topic:  The devs said that if the torch generated heat while not actively healing someone, that it became too difficult to manage heat and unfun for the player, they also said that the stickiness was required because Hawken's "fast gameplay" made it too hard to skill shot heals, like hitting a TOW that healed people.  They are loath to touch the tech, even tho its' presence pretty much requires the opponent to either run a tech as well, or all strategies revolve around destroying/nutralizing the tech.  This is not fun.

The nerf to in-combat repair rate made the tech at least beatable in a 2v2 situation without HAVING to zerg rush the tech, and run the high risk dying from it's teammates/the techs combined fire (if the tech team was at least mildly competent, this was a very tough fight for the non-tech team)  but the real problem with Tech, the ability, is still what makes the mech completely and totally broken imho.

No one, should have a 300%+ effectiveness boost in one button, and couple that with the CD reduction items and you've got a huge annoyance, making any assault on the team with tech a kamikaze run.

The tech's ability should be rebalanced to only restore the in-combat healing to it's previous values, or slightly more at the cost of it's self healing (that way you can pop one with concentrated fire if he tries to use his bail as an iWin button, and give the vamp-beam a reasonable boost to self healing.

[shosca]

Just nerf the green beam. That ability boost is out of whack compared to what other mechs get with their abilities.

[fingerknitter]

burns1124, on December 20 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:

fingerknitter, on December 19 2013 - 08:27 PM, said:

LostlnPlace, on December 19 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

one tow rocket and a tech is about dead anyway what is the prob_

Do you mind reading what I have to say first, before you make hyperbolic claims_

It's not hyperbolic, Techs have the 2nd lowest health in the game, a well placed TOW does require them to seek cover or risk being destroyed.  

Yes it is. It would still by hyperbolic if we were talking about a scout.

On topic:  The devs said that if the torch generated heat while not actively healing someone, that it became too difficult to manage heat and unfun for the player, they also said that the stickiness was required because Hawken's "fast gameplay" made it too hard to skill shot heals, like hitting a TOW that healed people.  They are loath to touch the tech, even tho its' presence pretty much requires the opponent to either run a tech as well, or all strategies revolve around destroying/nutralizing the tech.  This is not fun.

Oh I'm not surprised that the devs were responsible for it in the first place, for the same reason that HF lock ons onto cloaked predators were intentional all along; doesn't mean I have to agree with it :S I personally tried playing the tech as if I had to manage heat yesterday and, given the proper commitment, I was nearly as effective. Granted, I could only "avoid" my theoretical heat punishment for missing, but having to manage when I made the repair torch active was not asking much (one of the loudest secondaries in the game I tell you xD).

The nerf to in-combat repair rate made the tech at least beatable in a 2v2 situation without HAVING to zerg rush the tech, and run the high risk dying from it's teammates/the techs combined fire (if the tech team was at least mildly competent, this was a very tough fight for the non-tech team)  but the real problem with Tech, the ability, is still what makes the mech completely and totally broken imho.

No one, should have a 300%+ effectiveness boost in one button, and couple that with the CD reduction items and you've got a huge annoyance, making any assault on the team with tech a kamikaze run.

The tech's ability should be rebalanced to only restore the in-combat healing to it's previous values, or slightly more at the cost of it's self healing (that way you can pop one with concentrated fire if he tries to use his bail as an iWin button, and give the vamp-beam a reasonable boost to self healing.

So like I said, I do not know the perfect combination of nerfs/buffs, but from a design/gameplay perspective, I would really like to see this nerf incorporated. I do agree that the ability is far too applicable, and perhaps it just needs a nerf to its duration, but no mech should be free from heat management. If they think heat management on the technician was rough, they should take that predator of theirs for a spin with that heat monster of a secondary...

[ThatDamnedBoedy]

Well and easy thing to do to the tech would be to give it a boost to armor resistances while repairing (5% maybe) to improve its ability to repair while under fire.  You can still be debuffed by enemy tech pilots using the redox.  As far as its counter...just use a scout atm...or a reaper...or a berserker...or frankly any other a-class mech.  There is no real need to buff its armor amount since there is no other mech yet in its family.

I would like to see a C-class repair mech...but one that only reapairs effectively in turret mode (but out-reps the tech).  I'd give that c-class good damage resistance but no self-repair ability.  useful in siege mode or TDM in certain situations.  Its main damaging weapon should be the reflak/SA-hawkins/mini-flak.  Oh and no amplify ability...just a slightly higher sustained rep while in turret mode and resistances like a vanguard.  

Were you to have a b-class support mech then the stats should resemble a CRT but with a faster base walking speed and 20-50 points less base armor.  I'd keep the amplify ability for this one and have it be the only b-class with access to the Ripper and Redox with its primary weapon being an SMG.

So I guess my point is that we should hold off balancing the tech until we see what B and C class types can bring to the table.  Hell there isn't even a prestige weapon yet for the damned thing. (my vote would be for the reflak for use in those tight spaces)

[burns1124]

fingerknitter, on December 20 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

burns1124, on December 20 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:

fingerknitter, on December 19 2013 - 08:27 PM, said:

LostlnPlace, on December 19 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

one tow rocket and a tech is about dead anyway what is the prob_

Do you mind reading what I have to say first, before you make hyperbolic claims_

It's not hyperbolic, Techs have the 2nd lowest health in the game, a well placed TOW does require them to seek cover or risk being destroyed.  

Yes it is. It would still by hyperbolic if we were talking about a scout.

On topic:  The devs said that if the torch generated heat while not actively healing someone, that it became too difficult to manage heat and unfun for the player, they also said that the stickiness was required because Hawken's "fast gameplay" made it too hard to skill shot heals, like hitting a TOW that healed people.  They are loath to touch the tech, even tho its' presence pretty much requires the opponent to either run a tech as well, or all strategies revolve around destroying/nutralizing the tech.  This is not fun.

Oh I'm not surprised that the devs were responsible for it in the first place, for the same reason that HF lock ons onto cloaked predators were intentional all along; doesn't mean I have to agree with it :S I personally tried playing the tech as if I had to manage heat yesterday and, given the proper commitment, I was nearly as effective. Granted, I could only "avoid" my theoretical heat punishment for missing, but having to manage when I made the repair torch active was not asking much (one of the loudest secondaries in the game I tell you xD).

The nerf to in-combat repair rate made the tech at least beatable in a 2v2 situation without HAVING to zerg rush the tech, and run the high risk dying from it's teammates/the techs combined fire (if the tech team was at least mildly competent, this was a very tough fight for the non-tech team)  but the real problem with Tech, the ability, is still what makes the mech completely and totally broken imho.

No one, should have a 300%+ effectiveness boost in one button, and couple that with the CD reduction items and you've got a huge annoyance, making any assault on the team with tech a kamikaze run.

The tech's ability should be rebalanced to only restore the in-combat healing to it's previous values, or slightly more at the cost of it's self healing (that way you can pop one with concentrated fire if he tries to use his bail as an iWin button, and give the vamp-beam a reasonable boost to self healing.

So like I said, I do not know the perfect combination of nerfs/buffs, but from a design/gameplay perspective, I would really like to see this nerf incorporated. I do agree that the ability is far too applicable, and perhaps it just needs a nerf to its duration, but no mech should be free from heat management. If they think heat management on the technician was rough, they should take that predator of theirs for a spin with that heat monster of a secondary...

The mech is designed to be an "easy-mode" for people who can't aim/manage heat to ease them into the game.  I don't agree with enabling bad play, but I don't make this game I just play it.  A nerf to the ability's effectiveness is really the only way to make it semi-balanced, yet not completely invalidate it as a choice of play.  Most techs that play now aren't even healing, and that makes them even easier to beat.

[Wasabi_Wei]

I noticed a lot of attack-Techs lately also. That ability on red..

[fingerknitter]

burns1124, on December 20 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:

The mech is designed to be an "easy-mode" for people who can't aim/manage heat to ease them into the game.  I don't agree with enabling bad play, but I don't make this game I just play it.  A nerf to the ability's effectiveness is really the only way to make it semi-balanced, yet not completely invalidate it as a choice of play.  Most techs that play now aren't even healing, and that makes them even easier to beat.

Wasabi_Wei, on December 20 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

I noticed a lot of attack-Techs lately also. That ability on red..

This is how I came to this conclusion and discovery yesterday; I hit almost 2000 points in a siege game yesterday with the tech.

I was 20 - 4 - 24 and something like 20000+ damage healed. I realized that the repair torch is the most heat efficient weapon in the entire game, even though it is the easiest one to aim in the first place; it just isn't right to me. Its obvious the mech was made as an easy mech, but asking for it to have the same kind of heat management as other mechs isn't asking too much IMO.

[Grizzled]

burns1124, on December 20 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:

fingerknitter, on December 20 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

burns1124, on December 20 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:

fingerknitter, on December 19 2013 - 08:27 PM, said:

LostlnPlace, on December 19 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

one tow rocket and a tech is about dead anyway what is the prob_

Do you mind reading what I have to say first, before you make hyperbolic claims_

It's not hyperbolic, Techs have the 2nd lowest health in the game, a well placed TOW does require them to seek cover or risk being destroyed.  

Yes it is. It would still by hyperbolic if we were talking about a scout.

On topic:  The devs said that if the torch generated heat while not actively healing someone, that it became too difficult to manage heat and unfun for the player, they also said that the stickiness was required because Hawken's "fast gameplay" made it too hard to skill shot heals, like hitting a TOW that healed people.  They are loath to touch the tech, even tho its' presence pretty much requires the opponent to either run a tech as well, or all strategies revolve around destroying/nutralizing the tech.  This is not fun.

Oh I'm not surprised that the devs were responsible for it in the first place, for the same reason that HF lock ons onto cloaked predators were intentional all along; doesn't mean I have to agree with it :S I personally tried playing the tech as if I had to manage heat yesterday and, given the proper commitment, I was nearly as effective. Granted, I could only "avoid" my theoretical heat punishment for missing, but having to manage when I made the repair torch active was not asking much (one of the loudest secondaries in the game I tell you xD).

The nerf to in-combat repair rate made the tech at least beatable in a 2v2 situation without HAVING to zerg rush the tech, and run the high risk dying from it's teammates/the techs combined fire (if the tech team was at least mildly competent, this was a very tough fight for the non-tech team)  but the real problem with Tech, the ability, is still what makes the mech completely and totally broken imho.

No one, should have a 300%+ effectiveness boost in one button, and couple that with the CD reduction items and you've got a huge annoyance, making any assault on the team with tech a kamikaze run.

The tech's ability should be rebalanced to only restore the in-combat healing to it's previous values, or slightly more at the cost of it's self healing (that way you can pop one with concentrated fire if he tries to use his bail as an iWin button, and give the vamp-beam a reasonable boost to self healing.

So like I said, I do not know the perfect combination of nerfs/buffs, but from a design/gameplay perspective, I would really like to see this nerf incorporated. I do agree that the ability is far too applicable, and perhaps it just needs a nerf to its duration, but no mech should be free from heat management. If they think heat management on the technician was rough, they should take that predator of theirs for a spin with that heat monster of a secondary...

The mech is designed to be an "easy-mode" for people who can't aim/manage heat to ease them into the game.  I don't agree with enabling bad play, but I don't make this game I just play it.  A nerf to the ability's effectiveness is really the only way to make it semi-balanced, yet not completely invalidate it as a choice of play.  Most techs that play now aren't even healing, and that makes them even easier to beat.

If tech is for early/new players to ease them into the game why does it take so fuzzybunny long to unlock_!_!_