18 replies to this topic

[Phantasmo]

Straight to the point:

* The spin up time is ridiculous. It takes longer to spin up than to heat up.
* Worse yet: the gun won't fire at all during the spin up time. Other gatling guns fire slowly and speed up with each shot. This one will not fire until it gets up to speed. Which takes a while.
* The gun's text says it's most suitable for close distances. Well such a long spin up time will get you killed in close distances
* It builds heat so fast that firing rockets will not cool it fast enough, effectively killing sustained fire .
* Burst damage would be an option but the spin up makes it impossible: by the time you start pumping damage you're either dead or somebody else got the kill.
* Using the special ability to cool down is asking for trouble, since you are vulnerable whlie using it. You become a sitting duck.

There seems to be a bug with Incinerator's guns, the weapon's flash is not  at the gun's muzzle but a couple meters away. I don't know if this is intended. Please have a look here:
http://cloud-4.steam...0753A77A6F4C33/


So all in all this gun looks great but it's disappointing. Such a long spin up time makes it useless.
The first gun (BBY) seems the best gun so far for it.


TL; DR: The gun builds too much heat, too fast, and the ridiculous spin up time make it useless.

[Leonhardt]

Phantasmo, on March 12 2014 - 11:40 AM, said:

TL; DR: The gun builds too much heat, too fast, and the ridiculous spin up time make it useless.

I would argue that its the only gun that makes the mech viable, but to each their own.

[Phantasmo]

In my experience, the very long spin up time added to the heat you get from close friendlies means you overheat way too fast and can't fire at all.

When I play with the first gun I can get some kills, but when I pick the PPY I always end the last one in the ranking.

[Leonhardt]

Phantasmo, on March 12 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:

In my experience, the very long spin up time added to the heat you get from close friendlies means you overheat way too fast and can't fire at all.

When I play with the first gun I can get some kills, but when I pick the PPY I always end the last one in the ranking.

To use the ppa you need to maintain spin and balance heat by firing your secondary weapon in alternate mode. It takes some time to learn, but in the hands of an experienced pilot its deadly.

[LoC_TR]

Brb with a vid..

Edited by LoC_TR, March 12 2014 - 12:17 PM.

[Dew]

PPA Incinerator is ridiculously strong if you can manage your heat properly. It has the highest DPS in the game by a very wide margin. Just because you can't use it doesn't mean it needs a rework.

As a side note, Incinerator probably does need some balancing, if only because it's so overwhelmingly powerful in competitive play.

Edited by Dew, March 12 2014 - 12:34 PM.

[Phantasmo]

So the PPA is not mean to be used as a primary gun but as a way to fuel the secondary.
Pity, I really wanted a good gatling gun.
Thanks for the answers.

[Dew]

As long as you're continuously firing the big shots from the SAARE you can still hold down the PPA for a decent amount of time. You'll eventually have to let off the button or start firing in bursts though, especially with teammates nearby.

If you want a rotary cannon that you can fire continuously without ever having to worry about overheating, BBY is a better choice.

Edited by Dew, March 12 2014 - 12:52 PM.

[Phantasmo]

Dew, on March 12 2014 - 12:52 PM, said:

As long as you're continuously firing the big shots from the SAARE you can still hold down the PPA for a decent amount of time. You'll eventually have to let off the button or start firing in bursts though, especially with teammates nearby.

If you want a rotary cannon that you can fire continuously without ever having to worry about overheating, BBY is a better choice.

The BBY's RoF is so slow. You don't need a multi-barreled gun for such a low rate of fire.

I already tried what you say about firing the SAARE continuosly but it won't last for more than four or five seconds.


Ah, I'm just disappoointed because I thought that that huge gatling gun would work like, well, like an actual gatling gun. But it doesn't.

Thanks for the tips again.

[Leonhardt]

Phantasmo, on March 12 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

So the PPA is not mean to be used as a primary gun but as a way to fuel the secondary.
Pity, I really wanted a good gatling gun.
Thanks for the answers.

The PPA adds to the massive amount of sustained damage the Incin does. You just have to have the ability to trace well and adjust aim between the rythm of shots. The heat produced by the PPA is not its only use its just the main use at longer ranges and a constant side effect of the weapon.

At close range that thing rips people apart if you use it correctly. It just takes some practice.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

I dislike PPA as well, but I need the practice if someone like Leonhardt was able to make the thing work.  Personally, we should at least make the thing a little easier to use for a trade off of nerfing Incinerator a little if it does happen.

Edited by Hijinks_The_Turtle, March 12 2014 - 02:46 PM.

[len1977]

I agree with OP. Yes the Papa is useable BUT it's a gattling canon that plays like a smei auto shotgun and for that kind of play the spin up is waay to long (esp for peekabo)
No doubt the Baby is the easiest to handle and I think the mama is well balanced too (though all may not agree). Its a good balance of heat and saare (on secondary).
THe papa however seems to want to penalize you for using the gun..... just way too much heat gen. Personally wouldn't mind if they dipped the heat gen more (and compensate with reduced dps for balance, without turning it into the Baby).
Or better still keep DPS as it is but turn it into a shotgun type weapon like the flak/mini flak. The long spin up definitely needs to go

[Phantasmo]

It's a problem shared by all three guns. You see the mech and think WOW A GATLING GUN!!
You grind for it, you buy it and then you find out all it's weapons are slingshots, they do not work like rotary cannons.
The Incinerator's looks are very deceiving, weapons look like high rate of fire but they are not.

Edited by Phantasmo, March 13 2014 - 07:46 AM.

[Baconrath]

How to Incinerator 2 -or- How I learned to stop worrying and love the Papa Bear
1. Spin up PPA
2. let off mouse 1 right before you overheat (or you will probably die)
3. find victim
4. boost into close range
5. press F to Incinerator toots
6. repeat steps 1-5 if still alive

No seriously. The PPA is really good at fueling the Incinerators ability. However the ability damage seems inconsistent and somewhat useless against airborne enemies in addition to the high risk of overheat and slow spinup. This will likely make you a liability.

But it is soooo satisfying to kill people with the Incinerator toot. And fun.

And as mentioned above I recommend keeping the SAARE open as the closed one doesnt get rid of enough heat.

edit: forum replaced f@rt with fuzzy bunny so therefore 'toots' : /

Edited by Baconrath, March 15 2014 - 08:12 PM.

[Wasabi_Wei]

I wish we could toggle the passive heat absorption. That is what gets me killed more often than anything using the Papa. It is also a very different experience depending on teamwork. To do really well with the Papa I find secure flanks key - but the team needs to give the Incinerator room to move and not all keep firing madly while huddling around the Incinerator. I would like to NOT be the heat sink for the team because it gets me pinned down and overheated time and again. I have tested the passive heat absorb and I know 100% that is absorbs heat from enemy bots. I suspect that the bug is present vs. players as well. I may test that after work..

[Phantasmo]

A funny thing I noticed is normally your team mates don't exactly stick with you, meaning they don't really find the heat sink thing so attractive.
Players tend to go closer to the technician, but they aren't exactly excited about staying close to the Incinerator.

People don't find that ability very interesting but at the same time it really hinders your rate of fire.
Besides, the rockets aren't suitable at all for 1 vs 1 fights, and your enemies can exploit the heat sink thing by staying close to you, making it very difficult to fire the PPA. And using the special ability doesn't help because it takes too much time both before dealing the damage and before resuming normal gameplay.

I know the mechs wasn't designed for 1 vs 1 at all, but you've got to face it: there are lots of 1vs1 fights in Hawken, and you are going to die in each and any of them.

[Stingz]

Phantasmo, on March 16 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:

A funny thing I noticed is normally your team mates don't exactly stick with you, meaning they don't really find the heat sink thing so attractive.
Players tend to go closer to the technician, but they aren't exactly excited about staying close to the Incinerator.

People don't find that ability very interesting but at the same time it really hinders your rate of fire.
Besides, the rockets aren't suitable at all for 1 vs 1 fights, and your enemies can exploit the heat sink thing by staying close to you, making it very difficult to fire the PPA. And using the special ability doesn't help because it takes too much time both before dealing the damage and before resuming normal gameplay.

I know the mechs wasn't designed for 1 vs 1 at all, but you've got to face it: there are lots of 1vs1 fights in Hawken, and you are going to die in each and any of them.

Trust me, mechs using Vulcans have no problem sticking with a Incinerator. The heat from sustained Vulcan fire adds up fast.

You might need better teammates or positioning to get them to stick together. C-Class mechs are hard to handle also.

Edited by Stingz, March 16 2014 - 11:48 AM.

[jrkong]

I would be happy if I could spit a few bullets as the PPA spins up. As it is the 3 second spin up time makes it really hard for you to heal and get back into the fight. This'll probably be fixed if I get some internals though. Also does the PPA "jam" on anyone else as they're doing bursts_ I've had the gun completely ignore me sometimes even though I've been clicking the fire button.

[IareDave]

Just got the PPA, and it took me just a few minutes to get the hang of it. It's not as hard as people are claiming, treat it like a burst weapon. Then use the alt saare shots like mad because of its high heat build.

Bottom line: If you can aim with the saare well then get the PPA.