110 replies to this topic

[h0B0]

Gumby789, on March 13 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

This is an Amateur Tournament and is not geared towards the hardcore/skilled competitive Hawken player. The goal was to aim at those players who maybe play the game on an occasional basis or those who just picked up the title. To have that one person be like cool look at this and they call their brother, co-workers and friends and get them involved in Hawken to participate. The target audience is those kinds of players and we want them to get involved in Hawken and feel like they have a chance of winning this, not to get stomped on because that is not fun for anyone.

[...]

Therefore when caught, besides being banned from TAW, their name and I.P. will be shared publicly anywhere and everywhere Hawken has a presence.

I once again applaud the effort you are putting forth to provide the community with a well organised event. However having a competitive event aimed at casual players seems like a contradiction in itself.

Furthermore pretty sure that last sentence is against forum rules. Sharing IP and public shaming isn't going to bring positive light on the hawken community even if its intent is to shine a light on sour apples.

Lastly i'd like to say something to the people making a fuss about the exclusion of leaguers in the tourney: Its not your tourney, you've made your point and if the organizers don't want to change them to accommodate you nothing positive will come out of you complaining in this thread. If you really want to share your strong emotions take it into private. There is nothing wrong with having multiple sources of competitive events in hawken and at best once the participants have competed in this event they might be tempted to pursue a competitive hawken "career" and join the league in the future.

[Xacius]

After much speculation and discussion, I've come to the following conclusions:

1. Hosting a competitive event with restrictions based on participation in another competitive event only serves to divide the competitive playerbase.  
2. An MMR restriction is more than enough if you wish to limit participation to new/more casual players.  
3. Gumby789, you seem to hold the notion that TPG only includes competitively-driven players.  This is not the case.  The TPG league welcomes teams from all levels of play.  I suggest that you change the ruleset so as to promote both forms of competitive play.

Edited by Xacius, March 13 2014 - 05:15 PM.

[irish_00]

hwk fellas,

nobody's perfect. and what one person gets for his effort of making an event for new players and making one single mistake _
yes, tons of big fat negativity rage that's literally squeezing out all the sense that was initially put in it so one can only guess...

what new players get from it _
right, that our community is completely coo-coo xD

come on, fellas, Gumby really do not deserve that much pressure.
and you know what _ this whole issue do not deserve that much attention at all. its just not worth it.

dudas, stay classy.
we got lots of new players now and 2 tournaments for them.

PS: if somebody have missed it - read OP once again now.

Edited by irish_00, March 13 2014 - 05:18 PM.

[LONEDEADWOLF]

Alright how do i become a sponsor for a player for future tourneys.. You know to buy their unique skin  or outfit or special load out stuff....This would be so much fun this way. ..lol .....like after  July (special day  coming)....lol...._ Is there a way to do this or am i  dreaming( )

[DrunkenZergling]

sounds cool but i only only know one other person that plays, and i doubt i'd be good enough.

[Gumby789]

DrunkenZergling, on March 13 2014 - 08:10 PM, said:

sounds cool but i only only know one other person that plays, and i doubt i'd be good enough.

Grab some friends, family or co-workers, after all Hawken is free to play, and this event is set up where the skilled peeps sit out for all you new players can have some Hawken fun.

[NotKjell]

Do you think you should have a sign up sheet for the people without clans or enough people_ People could try and sub in for other groups or make their own teams with other people.

[Houruck]

Gumby789, on March 13 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

Therefore when caught, besides being banned from TAW, their name and I.P. will be shared publicly anywhere and everywhere Hawken has a presence.

Once again, IP address are not something that can specifiy a person.
Internet service providers usually give IPv4 addresses from a dynamic pool, which means you can easily acquire a new one. Someone else - totally innocent - could even end up with your banned IP.

[Ker4u]

Xacius, on March 13 2014 - 05:15 PM, said:

After much speculation and discussion, I've come to the following conclusions:

1. Hosting a competitive event with restrictions based on participation in another competitive event only serves to divide the competitive playerbase.  
2. An MMR restriction is more than enough if you wish to limit participation to new/more casual players.  
3. Gumby789, you seem to hold the notion that TPG only includes competitively-driven players.  This is not the case.  The TPG league welcomes teams from all levels of play.  I suggest that you change the ruleset so as to promote both forms of competitive play.

And it will also make a lot of new players interested in this mythical "competitive hawken" that 20 players in usa are playing. People start forming more teams, try to play coordinated.  Cross-promote your tpd league that i didn't even know existed.
It's a very positive event for hawken in general, people complain about restrictions, but i don't see  kids from my neighborhood playing in champions league vs Real Madrid.
Dividing  players in to leagues/ranks/divisions is a very common thing.

[Xacius]

Ker4u, on March 14 2014 - 12:11 AM, said:

Xacius, on March 13 2014 - 05:15 PM, said:

After much speculation and discussion, I've come to the following conclusions:

1. Hosting a competitive event with restrictions based on participation in another competitive event only serves to divide the competitive playerbase.  
2. An MMR restriction is more than enough if you wish to limit participation to new/more casual players.  
3. Gumby789, you seem to hold the notion that TPG only includes competitively-driven players.  This is not the case.  The TPG league welcomes teams from all levels of play.  I suggest that you change the ruleset so as to promote both forms of competitive play.

Dividing  players in to leagues/ranks/divisions is a very common thing.

And for a game whose competitive playerbase is already small, I find it unnecessary.

[Ker4u]

Xacius, on March 14 2014 - 12:28 AM, said:

Ker4u, on March 14 2014 - 12:11 AM, said:

Xacius, on March 13 2014 - 05:15 PM, said:

After much speculation and discussion, I've come to the following conclusions:

1. Hosting a competitive event with restrictions based on participation in another competitive event only serves to divide the competitive playerbase.  
2. An MMR restriction is more than enough if you wish to limit participation to new/more casual players.  
3. Gumby789, you seem to hold the notion that TPG only includes competitively-driven players.  This is not the case.  The TPG league welcomes teams from all levels of play.  I suggest that you change the ruleset so as to promote both forms of competitive play.

Dividing  players in to leagues/ranks/divisions is a very common thing.

And for a game whose competitive playerbase is already small, I find it unnecessary.

and this tornament can help to grow it

[Vilyria]

I think this is perfect. As an lower MMR player i see this as a chance to play against players who roll around same numbers. If I would dare to ever join in some other tournament, I'd be grilled alive in seconds.

[Opicron]

Before entering this thread I had no idea about TAW and TPG. However after reading the thread I have developed an aversion to both.

Well done!

[Houruck]

I am glad it was resolved.
I am looking forward to watch both events since I can not participate in either.

Edited by Houruck, March 14 2014 - 01:38 AM.

[Muffintrumpet]

Xacius, on March 14 2014 - 12:28 AM, said:

Ker4u, on March 14 2014 - 12:11 AM, said:

Xacius, on March 13 2014 - 05:15 PM, said:

After much speculation and discussion, I've come to the following conclusions:

1. Hosting a competitive event with restrictions based on participation in another competitive event only serves to divide the competitive playerbase.  
2. An MMR restriction is more than enough if you wish to limit participation to new/more casual players.  
3. Gumby789, you seem to hold the notion that TPG only includes competitively-driven players.  This is not the case.  The TPG league welcomes teams from all levels of play.  I suggest that you change the ruleset so as to promote both forms of competitive play.

Dividing  players in to leagues/ranks/divisions is a very common thing.

And for a game whose competitive playerbase is already small, I find it unnecessary.

I don't see a problem with it at all
the so-call 'best' players have in the past excluded lower skill players from their events because it interferes with their jimmies, to my eye this is just the other side of the same coin
...and still some of the 'higher' skill players attempt to deconstruct these efforts by citing 'unnecessary segregation'

live and let live

[kazuya989]

Opicron, on March 14 2014 - 01:26 AM, said:

Before entering this thread I had no idea about TAW and TPG. However after reading the thread I have developed an aversion to both.

Well done!

This right here.  this is the risk, if this all carries on.

I find it surprising and very disappointing that this community is incapable of having a calm and respectful discussion, about what is in its core essence an event designed to promote Hawken in a positive light, to new lower skilled players.

Indeed the very players that we would all like to stay in the game, grow their skills, and maybe become competitive players in the future.

I applaud Gumby for his efforts in this, and its a shame that a few take to raging on the forums when a polite PM message would have been so much better.

Gumby is a top bloke and very approachable, the fact that he has organised this event to support Hawken (with prizes paid for by TAW) should prove this.

All that spitting venom around the forums will lead to, is people avoiding TAW the TPG and maybe Hawken entirely.

As Keji would say on the cockpit "Stay classy Hawken Community".  

"Class" has been sadly lacking from a number of individuals in this thread.  I would ask people to pause and think before they post.

We all want Hawken to succeed, both as a casual and competitive game.  

We are all ultimately on the same team.  

Please lets not forget that.

[Requiem132]

The issue that people are complaining about is not them being excluded because of MMR. It is excluding players who are apart of TPG already who now can't participate even though they meet those MMR requirements. This is more us TPG people defending our newer players who are in our league and would probably love to participate but because of that restriction they can't =/. This is the only reason people are arguing aside from that good work TAW! I am happy too see this happen and can't wait too see it on stream. But please consider if any team on TPG who has low enough MMR players be allowed to participate for their sakes on having fun with everyone else their skill level_

[kazuya989]

And if everyone was stating their concerns as calmly / respectfully and eloquently as you Requiem, then there would be no problem.

Healthy respectful debate is good,  name calling and tantrums are bad.  

Defending a reasonable position, in an un-reasonable way, isn't acceptable behaviour, and will only damage that which people care about.

[burns1124]

kazuya989, on March 14 2014 - 03:19 AM, said:

And if everyone was stating their concerns as calmly / respectfully and eloquently as you Requiem, then there would be no problem.

Healthy respectful debate is good,  name calling and tantrums are bad.  

Defending a reasonable position, in an un-reasonable way, isn't acceptable behavior, and will only damage that which people care about.

I hardly see anyone throwing a tantrum in this thread, or "calling-names", to express your opinion of someone being obtuse with their rules that are clearly devisive and needlessly discriminatory as "idiot" is a pretty tame way of expressing their frustration with what you have done, and what you plan on doing with this event. Especially when they've worked for months to set up said league, all for the benefit of the community at large, without excluding anyone.

No offense but TAW has had a long and well documented history of being overly restrictive, and overbearing with it's rules and regs, and the caveat of using IP addresses to shame anyone trying to "infiltrate" your event's silly restrictions is both unethical, against forum policy, and just plain wrong.  For these reasons alone I personally would not participate in this, or any TAW sponsored event.  What's next_  Disqualifying teams/players because they use certain words you have deemed unacceptable (like your TS)_

Hawken is still an extremely small community in total, with certain individuals trying to grow that community thru events like this tournament, a competitive league, or events like Fight Club.  I would like to point to those last two examples, which welcome all players/skill levels, as "doing it right"  to exclude a fair bit of either returning players, or those that hover in the middle (1800-2100) is the wrong move imho.  Why not bracket your tourney in ~200 mmr brackets, as a gap of 500 (as that's about the gap on your average TDM) is ludicrous for a "competitive" event in the first place, as thats a HUGE gap in skill.

A 1350 player is not going to know how to dodge, move with their team, or play in a team based enviroment, as they are literally just learning the games mechanics/maps.  an 1800 player likely has had a few weeks/months to familiarize themselves with mechanics and meta game, just by watching a stream or two, and will utterly dominate any 13-1500 player easily.

Also, not disallowing any mech/internal/item combo on a tournament aimed at "new players" also puts them at a disadvantage to their higher end (1850) counterparts as those with the high end are likely higher pilot level, with access to internals/items that a 1300 would not.  How would you handle mech stacking on certain maps_  Lets take HF/Sabot mechs on Bunker for example, you put 3-4 HF mechs on one team, and do not retort with the same, then you have a roflstomp on your hands.

i think your main idea of a newbie tourney is a great idea, but as usual, TAW's implementation could use a little more thought and prudence that you have attributed to it.  Good luck all the same.

[pseulak]

Silverfire, on March 13 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

Good idea, i like/support it, rules are a bit more lax compared to TPG, but meh on calling out TPG.

I'm not on a TPG league team because I doubt I'd be any benefit to a team just looking at the rosters knowing my relative skill level and MMR. I just didn't bother even if I'd like to. However, I'm higher than 1850 (passed it a week ago), so that would mean I'm not qualified for this either. Stuck in the in between with nowhere to go, a tourney for the 1900-2100 players needs to come soon.

Silverfire, you should jump on the vR Teamspeak and hang out. A bunch of us are in this relative skill bracket and we try to play pretty often.