36 replies to this topic

[RavWielki]

Tow is OP for sure.

[NewEden]

As a new player who primarily plays infiltrator, this is what I have the most problems with. Why is the grenade launcher sub par to this extremely fast and deadly weapon_ While I have to have a DIRECT hit with the GL for the most damage, the TOW does exactly the same thing with way faster travel speed and reload.  What is even worse is that the Brawler has it. But hey, this is just from a newbie who started playing 2-3 weeks ago. Overall I think it could use a slower reload time or reduced damage, its just too strong.

[Nikoro]

Agreed. I love the fact Fred is a well rounded and noteworthy starter mech compared to most games -intro- weapons of choice, however with the current HPs and weapon lay it seems grossly overtuned. A sharpshooter with its ability and slug/sabot can do 200. This compared to practically the same damage, spammable, and about as fast (Yes, even from mid to long range it almost feels like a hitscan) make it unreal to justify anything else. Like I said, I love Fred, but to see the ranks constantly filled with them just because of the TOWs carry capacity alone is frustrating. Either tune the damage back or tune the sniper weapons up (not likely) cause while reload or heat compensation -may- pull it back, remember your starter gets a coolant flush.

Edited by Nikoro, March 25 2014 - 09:05 AM.

[Desert_Fox2]

Hayseed, on March 20 2014 - 08:01 PM, said:

Dont throw a fuzzy bunny fit because we just happen to be talking about that weapon that get you your 13 and 0 K/D.

That all_

The TOW is what makes things interesting. If it was at 120 damage, fights would take way to long. Also, taking down a C class would almost not be possible.

[Desert_Fox2]

You just have to learn how to avoid them. It really isn't that hard. Takes a bit of skill, good hearing, and the ability to calculate.

NewEden, on March 22 2014 - 04:41 PM, said:

As a new player who primarily plays infiltrator, this is what I have the most problems with. Why is the grenade launcher sub par to this extremely fast and deadly weapon_ While I have to have a DIRECT hit with the GL for the most damage, the TOW does exactly the same thing with way faster travel speed and reload.  What is even worse is that the Brawler has it. But hey, this is just from a newbie who started playing 2-3 weeks ago. Overall I think it could use a slower reload time or reduced damage, its just too strong.

The GL is very good. You can bounce it around corners. Arc it over walls. It is also a bit easier to detonate it when you need to. There is a time after firing when you can't detonate it. The TOW sometimes travels a bit to fast and goes past that point.

[Kimerex]

Did they stealth buff its dmg though. Like today, i was in a siege match where we got rolled by 4 assault mechs. What i noticed was in one of my 1v1 duals i ran into against one of these assaults it looked like it hit me with 1 tow then two bullets from the vulcan and gg i died. The tow seemed to do 3/4 of my Raiders health in dmg before the vulcan even spun up. This was after i got the jump on him and hit dead on with the corsair for only about 1/4 of his health. I don't remember this being the case a week ago.

[Battlesbreak]

Slightly too powerful TOW is currently on my opinion. GL slightly bit too good. Rocketeer and Grenadier don't even speak about them seriously painful as hell to play against and needs adjustment because of weaponry. Yet I think Raider might be OK but really situational [or how it was announced]

[Stingz]

Check over the patch notes, Seeker damage is being reduced to 50, Corsair MIRV is getting 21 damage per pellet.

Raider is getting buffs in almost everything, except fire rate.

Edited by Stingz, March 26 2014 - 03:58 AM.

[Nexogon]

tow OP_ nice joke...

Edited by Nexogon, March 28 2014 - 04:29 AM.

[Hayseed]

Stingz, on March 19 2014 - 05:34 AM, said:

MechCraft, on March 19 2014 - 04:07 AM, said:

The spiraling is only a visual effect - the actual projectile travels and registers in a straight line. Tested this in-game just to be sure.

As it stands, the TOW's combination of strengths (fast projectile, fast reload, high damage) arguably make it the best secondary in the game. It's an incredibly reliable weapon and it hurts like hell. If anything, I would tune the damage back slightly and work from there.

Others have already noticed that the TOW has a faster reload time than the Grenade Launcher, 2.25 sec/TOW vs 2.5 sec/GL.
If anything that should be the first change.

Damage is fine, same as GL but has less splash for a faster projectile: "...for Soldiers who have mastered the art of shooting at their targets instead of vaguely near them."

You keep using this quote, but I dont think you truly understand what it says. This comes from a Wikipedia article discussing the team fortress 2 rocket launcher called "The Direct Hit". Its called the Direct Hit for a reason. It has absolutley zero splash damage. Not almost zero splash damage, literatly zero splash damage. The TOW in this game has quite a significant amount of splash damage, enough to at least take away a quarter of your health if your in an A class mech. If they made the TOW to have 0 splash damage, I think i would be satisfied.

[Hayseed]

ok guys, think about it like this. What are the top five mechs of Hawken, as in what you get kills with the most and what you get killed by the most. My list is this.
1.) CRT Recruit (i have never leveled this up or played as it...i randomly choose it in a match and got a triple).
2.) Assault (pretty much the same as the CRT Recruit)
3.) Berserker
4.) Scout (I've never played as this, and havent really played against it much, but it did dominate pretty well in the games i did played against it and i always hear someone saying its either really good or OP)
5.) Brawler
now look back at your list...how many of them have TOW_ In my list it is all of them which I know may seem a little biased but i made it based on actual experience.
Other facts: Tow is either the most damaging or in the top three of most damaging of secondary weapons
    rate of fire is only under the EOC predator and the helix repair torch
    heat generation is average (but when you have cooldown as your ability does it matter_).

[Hayseed]

Desert_Fox2, on March 25 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

Hayseed, on March 20 2014 - 08:01 PM, said:

Dont throw a fuzzy bunny fit because we just happen to be talking about that weapon that get you your 13 and 0 K/D.

That all_

The TOW is what makes things interesting. If it was at 120 damage, fights would take way to long. Also, taking down a C class would almost not be possible.

1.) C class mechs are not "that" hard to take down, with exception to the brawler...in part because of the TOW and in part because of its ability to heal itself.
2.) Is that it_ You're telling me that the whole purpose to the TOW is just "to make things interesting"_. Isn't that a little stupid to say_ You are in a freaking mech with giant guns shooting other freaking mechs you dont need to add a special weapon to make it interesting.
3.)Your argument about how supposedly the only way to take down a C class would be with a TOW kinda proves my point. Imagine you have this giant ass creature, with huge health. The only way to take it down would be with 3 hits (yes, it takes three hits to kill an C class with a TOW) with a certain weapon. Do you think that anybody with their right minds would use anything else_ No! Lets just carry this really powerful gun, that can practically take out an A class mech in one hit, a B class mech in two, and an C class in three, and is also quick firing, low heat generating, and even if I miss a lot and start to over heat I have this amazing ability to cool my weapons down! Hooray! spam for everyone!
4.) Nerfing the TOW is the easiest way to balance these mechs out. If we aren't doing that then we need to change other aspects about these mechs to balance them out. For instance, Armor, speed, fuel capacity, or ability regen time... stuff like that.

[Vdragon]

Nah, GL is just weak.

[Desert_Fox2]

Hayseed, on April 13 2014 - 03:56 PM, said:

1.) C class mechs are not "that" hard to take down, with exception to the brawler...in part because of the TOW and in part because of its ability to heal itself.
2.) Is that it_ You're telling me that the whole purpose to the TOW is just "to make things interesting"_. Isn't that a little stupid to say_ You are in a freaking mech with giant guns shooting other freaking mechs you dont need to add a special weapon to make it interesting.
3.)Your argument about how supposedly the only way to take down a C class would be with a TOW kinda proves my point. Imagine you have this giant ass creature, with huge health. The only way to take it down would be with 3 hits (yes, it takes three hits to kill an C class with a TOW) with a certain weapon. Do you think that anybody with their right minds would use anything else_ No! Lets just carry this really powerful gun, that can practically take out an A class mech in one hit, a B class mech in two, and an C class in three, and is also quick firing, low heat generating, and even if I miss a lot and start to over heat I have this amazing ability to cool my weapons down! Hooray! spam for everyone!
4.) Nerfing the TOW is the easiest way to balance these mechs out. If we aren't doing that then we need to change other aspects about these mechs to balance them out. For instance, Armor, speed, fuel capacity, or ability regen time... stuff like that.

Those are the expressions I made while reading your post.

First, C classes are not at all hard to take down. Brawler is also very easy to take down. For it to heal itself that means it is in turret mode. Free kill there.

I really don't see the point of your second point. However, if you just want me to answer you then yes, the TOW makes things interesting. Can you imagine a mech game without a missile_

To answer your third point. I honestly have no clue how you arrived at that assumption. Actually, looking back at what I wrote I can see how you got there. One weapon shouldn't be used over another. I use both or the weapon that fits the circumstances I am in. You talk about the cooling ability. Out of the five mechs you named only two, basically identical mechs, have that ability.

Finally, your last point. I would say that nerfing the TOW is probably the worse choice that could be made. The Grenade and TOW have the same damage. By nerfing the TOW you are actually unbalancing a lot of mechs. I don't think that is what is wanted by the Devs or majority of players in Hawken. With your philosophy of spamming TOWs, I would win against you every time. It isn't about how many your fire. It is when you fire.

I have seen every single mech in the game at the top of the scoreboard at some time or another. I repeat. Every single mech. That means it isn't the TOW that wins a match. So, what does_ Health_ No, I have seen Infils and Reapers at the top. I believe that the key is movement. Anticipating a TOW is not very hard. Dodging it is not hard. You should be able to get our of splash range for the most part. It is all about being in the right position to fire, and being in the right position to dodge. It is about knowing your opponent. Knowing their tendencies and habits. Everyone has a habit. When in a fight it is key to find that habit as soon as possible and turn that into their biggest mistake. Manipulate the battle to make the revert to what they normally do. Then you have them.
I know that got a bit off track, but I had fun writing it.

I am curious to know how long you have been playing. Most of your comments seem to come from someone who keeps getting killed by mechs with TOWs.

Edited by Desert_Fox2, April 13 2014 - 07:44 PM.

[Hayseed]

Desert_Fox2, on April 13 2014 - 07:44 PM, said:

Hayseed, on April 13 2014 - 03:56 PM, said:

1.) C class mechs are not "that" hard to take down, with exception to the brawler...in part because of the TOW and in part because of its ability to heal itself.
2.) Is that it_ You're telling me that the whole purpose to the TOW is just "to make things interesting"_. Isn't that a little stupid to say_ You are in a freaking mech with giant guns shooting other freaking mechs you dont need to add a special weapon to make it interesting.
3.)Your argument about how supposedly the only way to take down a C class would be with a TOW kinda proves my point. Imagine you have this giant ass creature, with huge health. The only way to take it down would be with 3 hits (yes, it takes three hits to kill an C class with a TOW) with a certain weapon. Do you think that anybody with their right minds would use anything else_ No! Lets just carry this really powerful gun, that can practically take out an A class mech in one hit, a B class mech in two, and an C class in three, and is also quick firing, low heat generating, and even if I miss a lot and start to over heat I have this amazing ability to cool my weapons down! Hooray! spam for everyone!
4.) Nerfing the TOW is the easiest way to balance these mechs out. If we aren't doing that then we need to change other aspects about these mechs to balance them out. For instance, Armor, speed, fuel capacity, or ability regen time... stuff like that.

Those are the expressions I made while reading your post.

First, C classes are not at all hard to take down. Brawler is also very easy to take down. For it to heal itself that means it is in turret mode. Free kill there.

I really don't see the point of your second point. However, if you just want me to answer you then yes, the TOW makes things interesting. Can you imagine a mech game without a missile_

To answer your third point. I honestly have no clue how you arrived at that assumption. Actually, looking back at what I wrote I can see how you got there. One weapon shouldn't be used over another. I use both or the weapon that fits the circumstances I am in. You talk about the cooling ability. Out of the five mechs you named only two, basically identical mechs, have that ability.

Finally, your last point. I would say that nerfing the TOW is probably the worse choice that could be made. The Grenade and TOW have the same damage. By nerfing the TOW you are actually unbalancing a lot of mechs. I don't think that is what is wanted by the Devs or majority of players in Hawken. With your philosophy of spamming TOWs, I would win against you every time. It isn't about how many your fire. It is when you fire.

I have seen every single mech in the game at the top of the scoreboard at some time or another. I repeat. Every single mech. That means it isn't the TOW that wins a match. So, what does_ Health_ No, I have seen Infils and Reapers at the top. I believe that the key is movement. Anticipating a TOW is not very hard. Dodging it is not hard. You should be able to get our of splash range for the most part. It is all about being in the right position to fire, and being in the right position to dodge. It is about knowing your opponent. Knowing their tendencies and habits. Everyone has a habit. When in a fight it is key to find that habit as soon as possible and turn that into their biggest mistake. Manipulate the battle to make the revert to what they normally do. Then you have them.
I know that got a bit off track, but I had fun writing it.

I am curious to know how long you have been playing. Most of your comments seem to come from someone who keeps getting killed by mechs with TOWs.

To tell the truth I have not been playing as long as others, but I have maxed out about...five mechs___ IDK the number off the top of my head.
Anyways...
1.)  Ok.. I see we agree a bit about how hard/easy it is to take down a C class mech, I wouldn't go so far to say a "free kill" while in turret mode but you get my point.
2.)There are already plenty of missles in Hawken (the rocketeer_) and I know that there would seem to be a vast empty space without the TOW, but remember, Im not saying that we should remove the TOW, just nerf it.
3.) Yeah, I know that that argument wasn't the strongest, but its what I see a lot in games I play.
4.) By nerfing the TOW's damage it would still have priority over the GL when it comes to firing rate, speed/range of projectile, and heat generation. Doesn't seem to unbalance a lot of mechs there. In truth, spamming TOW's can be a winning philosohpy. If you're in a big mech, my TOW will hit you almost every time, in a B class, maybe half to two-thirds of the time. In an A class, probably half or less if you're a jumper, but remember that almost every mech that has TOW also has a decent automatic, if I hit you just once I can finish you off with my assault rifle.
5.) Just because you see different mechs at the top of the scoreboard doesn't mean that TOW isn't OP. Depending on your game type, points are awarded differently. I used to play TDM a lot but got annoyed because it was a TOW-fest. I recently re-tried it to see if things have changed...nope. And dodging a TOW is not that hard, at least for the first time, if you see it coming. But remember in three seconds he gets another TOW, and then you have to dodge that one, and then another one, and then another one. Remember, the new patch makes dodges slower to recharge plus the fact that your aim is also affected by your own dodges. If he hits you once or twice, you're screwed.

[Anichkov3]

Actually, nerf TOW really necessary. Why is it TOW inflicts the same damage as Grenade Launcher, while the of the TOW get much easier. Yes, and the rate of recharge higher for TOW. Reduces damage when hit up to 110 ... 115 would be sufficient.

[cneltym]

Done a really big, at least 120 should be reduced.
tov flies slowly enough. uncharged hit canon that is what is necessary to remove the speed so it is, that's what you can really spam

---

and how you managed to compare with sabbot tov, hitskan who immediately hits the target and the projectile flying at a speed of Scout

Quote

"hey, is [insert mech name here] a good mech_ I just want to hear people's opinions before buying it."
"well, does it have TOW_"
"no"
"then its not good, dont buy it".

And about that, I think that GL is  better (at least for me)

• it has a big splash
  
• it flies in an arc
  
• it bounces off the walls
  
• it looks nice

tov have a lot of damage and all... and all of it is easy to dodge

Edited by cneltym, April 14 2014 - 09:08 PM.