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Hawken now has become cheap than the first trailer

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#41 nepacaka

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Posted April 06 2014 - 02:14 PM

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Yes more maps like prosk! why_ because that is one of the few maps where you genuinely feel like you are in a big mech due to the scale, aesthetics and theme.
Tell this to devs.

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Map aesthetics also help, examples of things they did well was add little trucks/cars your mech could knock over and destroy
actually, early car model was better. current futuristic car have wrong scale. they are too small, and the man whom we see in the hangar would not be able to fit in this car.
another broken thing.

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In regards to actual gameplay, I can't comment because I was never in closed beta
this is one of the reason because old player like me from time to time reminded of this. I have something to compare. I saw how it could be ... and how it's look like now.
and i think most of old players would be solidarity with me here. But...but they are not. Because many of them just do not play in this game after Ascension patch.

Edited by nepacaka, April 06 2014 - 02:15 PM.


#42 Interrobang87

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Posted April 06 2014 - 05:24 PM

Poor poor Nepcaka spinning his wheels to no effect. I agree that i liked the ttk of pre ascension better but they're done with major changes at this point. Time to hang up the gloves buddy
How will you spend eternity_ Smoking or Non-Smoking_
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#43 kanmuri

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Posted April 06 2014 - 10:08 PM

I've been recorded Hawken now.



The poor, please forgive me.

Scout became Quake too fast.
TTK it becomes the normal FPS too fast.
HUD uncool.(But HUD Customization is cool)
Internals "Armour fuser" and the like.
This game have gone away from the "Mech" more and more.
The essence of this game What "Mech".
Let me not forget this if.

Edited by kanmuri, April 06 2014 - 10:10 PM.


#44 kanmuri

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Posted April 06 2014 - 10:14 PM

I want to introduce one more video.
Of my friends he is "RickyZX".

]

He is a player of the strength of one of the best among the Japanese.
His movements or those that can be said to be "MechShooter"_
I can not say.
Completely This is a "sports FPS".

Edited by kanmuri, April 06 2014 - 10:15 PM.


#45 Valimer

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Posted April 06 2014 - 10:36 PM

View Postkanamisan, on April 06 2014 - 10:19 AM, said:

View PostValimer, on April 06 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

View Postkanamisan, on April 06 2014 - 08:09 AM, said:

again, you missed my point,  also you say you could make the mechs look like heavy infantry. but the thing is that they would not have a limited turn rate, they would not have delays in how they move, odd effects that make them more mechanical, instead they would be very fluid. its the little details I belive you are missing out on. its part of the difference in taste, also, much of the game challages were made to make the game more balanced in the long run. also alot of your problems are personal preference and not actul problem that the game has. also, I never said that your opinion is wrong or bad, you assumed it. however you have been acting like a child. just because you dont like something does not make it bad. and constantly making post saying the same thing we have heard 5k times or more is a pain in our butt and does not help the devs make the game any better. they dont have the time to hear you saying the same things over and over again, so if you really dont like the way the game is, leave, otherwise addapt and move on and stop dumping these posts again. you can have your opinion, but dont shove it down everyones face and dont waste our time. and at the least, try to clean up your posts and make them more readable.

sounds like you haven't played WH40K: Space Marine
so basicly because a very awakened third perspective shooter, you assume that a mech shooter is not a mech shooter because it. again, your loss. again, there was not a turn rate cap in space Marine, (did play the demo) and it did not feel anywhere as hawken does.

Hawken has it's own rules. There are plenty of mech games that don't have turn rate cap and are wonderful mech games. Some of these include Gundam Extreme Vs and Frontline Mission Evolved. The point is that just because there is a turn rate cap doesn't mean it feels like you're in a mech. One could argue that Hawken feels like Battlefield, but with a turn rate cap. I just think that Space Marine does a really great job of feeling like an huge armored walking weapon, arguably better than the current state of Hawken.

But what do we know_ Maybe the mechs in Hawkens fictional world don't operate like the mechs we think they should. It's really up to the developers to make a unique and believeable game world whose rules can be supported by their narrative. Then the players can accept it for what it is and decide if it's the kind of game they want to play or not, just like they do with Mechwarrior and Armored Core.

Hawken really is an inbetween game. It's come to a point where people are split between Hawken not feeling enough like a mech game and people who feel the clunkiness put in to atempt that mech feel gets in the way of the fluidity of the action. No one is happy.

#46 nepacaka

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Posted April 07 2014 - 12:54 AM

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There are plenty of mech games that don't have turn rate cap
if u have good mouse, hawken not have turn rate cap now too. see video above
where the player turns almost 360 degrees by means of a smooth rotation of the mouse. Before this turn cap was more stronger

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But what do we know_ Maybe the mechs in Hawkens fictional world don't operate like the mechs we think they should. It's really up to the developers to make a unique and believeable game world whose rules can be supported by their narrative. Then the players can accept it for what it is and decide if it's the kind of game they want to play or not, just like they do with Mechwarrior and Armored Core.
question is not whether what you know or not know.
the question is - what do you want from game_

Hawken looked like a simulator before. Now looks like the arcade.
what they want the players themselves_
play in the arcade, or get more realism features_

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Time to hang up the gloves buddy
this time has come when they announced the Ascension, I clearly understand that. But it does not change my desire to return pre-asc.
In the end, there is no rule prohibiting ask me to return it on forum ^_^

Edited by nepacaka, April 07 2014 - 02:16 AM.


#47 kanmuri

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Posted April 07 2014 - 05:25 AM

Dust of the battlefield is gone, the air was washed.
Mech is faster, it became a man who was wearing a powered suit.
Cockpit is omitted, worse parentheses.

They are whether the changes that are aimed at "MechShooter" really_
That this game is aimed at is I do not know.

Meaning to play this game will disappear If it gives "FPS normal" future.
This game is why I say "MechShooter".


HUD was too easy to see lose the sense of immersion.
Battlefield became too neatly lose the sense of immersion.

Mech too fast also lose the sense of immersion.
TTK too fast also lose the sense of immersion.
VR training became SF also lose the sense of immersion.

Longer this game is not "MechShooter"

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this time has come when they announced the Ascension, I clearly understand that. But it does not change my desire to return pre-asc.
In the end, there is no rule prohibiting ask me to return it on forum ^_^

You're right.

But tuning system was interesting.
There was a sense this game is "MechShooter".
Where you've been bad in it more often.

Edited by kanmuri, April 07 2014 - 05:25 AM.


#48 dorobo

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Posted April 07 2014 - 06:37 AM

I have to agree in a way.. Also the sound palette was way cooler back then. Now that funny epic music in siege and funky holographic elements break immersion alot. Im sure the speed can be incorporated in to mech immersion.

#49 nepacaka

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Posted April 07 2014 - 07:28 AM

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Mech too fast also lose the sense of immersion.
Today I saw my friend playing, he is bad, it was pretty funny. and I noticed that he can not even go as fast as I am.
due to the fact that he presses the left, when he wants to go the other way, it has been losing speed, stops after each drop and things like that.

Maybe I'm just accustomed, because I'm don't stop while moving.
in any case, his movements and my movements look different. My mech is constantly moving in the right direction without stopping, but his mech is always subject to various restrictions (like turn-cap, landing delay etc.)


but the loss of cockpit-hud in my opinion the most terrible crime which Devs made

#50 nepacaka

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Posted April 07 2014 - 08:11 AM

I made a list of all what we have lost in this 2 years, and what we have acquired since open-beta.

and important all of this. IMHO
green - for me, it is important
orange - it would be nice, but not as critical if this remove or rework
red - not particularly important

We Lost:
- walking acceleration (delay between walk/run is very small)
- highly decreased landing delay
- look up/look down vertical degrees restriction (that is also a problem with flying mech, before they could not hover over you and shoot)
- some good weapon sound, and some other sound (SA hawkins for example, but part of this was returned in steam-patch ad it's good (thx devs)
- Great trajectory/animation or rockets. (more cool early. srsly.)
- Delete smoke (ok, this need be for performance, but why not added option for "On" for good PC, and "Off" for old-PC)
- Weapon Spread
- Perfect HUD
- Interactive Crosshair
- increase the brightness of the game/ Change gama correction. less gloomy atmosphere (it's bad for me)
- good +/- internals, which not create u mechs in monsters. it was like fine-tuning not real advantages
- skill-tree (but it's was useless a little bit, cuz all people use same build)
- mechs dismemberment (it's working good, like speceffect. i don't know why this features will be deleted)

and little changed whole game mechanic, early mech walking slower, and u need use boost in fight (for fight better) and use fuel-management. added more oriented to air-combat. with tech and new ascension regeneration internals imrotant of "C" button little decreased. uh...i mean, whole game conception a little changed.


this
purple - good new features
yellow - bad new features
blue - not important, or nothing change in total for me

We Got:
- Simple but ugly interface. but it can be configured. (change map corners, etc.)
- changed crosshair (some of them are really curves. i.e. lines are not running in parallel. fuzzy perfectionist nightmare!)
- changed overheat. all mech now assault ability if they don't shoot 3 sec.
- improved air-combat. (most of this just destroyed weapons balance like EOC, Heat) not like this, not like air-dodge
i'll be objective this, improved air-combat it's not bad, just need fixed some broken things like hopping and other fuzzy bunny.
- reworking hp and speed.
- turret-mode animation for C-class (many ppl don't like, but i like it. better than static sliding mech. If even added gnashing and sparks when they drag strut-arms...)
- create 110 fov maximum (it's good, before early ppl with high FOV gain an advantages)
- added fuzzy bunny hopping gameplay (it's stupid, but devs don't fix it almost a year)
- fixed bug with shoot-after-jump (thx)
- decrease TTK (it's not like in CB3, where we have 500-850hp, but it's very close values 3-4 secs. imo - good.)
- rework all internals (with mysterious principle of work. and still broken)
- added grind
- added ragequitters solution (which actually not working, because i know how easy hack them in two clicks)
- rework siege mode
- added bullet FallOff damage
- decrease match time. 10-12 minutes instead 15.
- reworking score table. (imo, it's bad now)
- added avatar
- and some things that maybe are not bad, but I could forget about them.

just say, that we have many nice things for this 2 years. it would be nice if we got a lot of things without replacement old. We would have had a lot of features/chips, and we would get rid of the bugs and straighten balance.
but we not.

Edited by nepacaka, April 07 2014 - 08:15 AM.


#51 The_Silencer

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Posted April 07 2014 - 08:35 AM

The game has been vastly improved.. you know_ I think that simply by allowing us moving those 2 bars to the bottom of the screen/cockpit could (at least provisionally, I'd like to believe..) improve a lot the realism factor and immersion feeling in HAWKEN.

Just my 2 cents for now. [8}]

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#52 nepacaka

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Posted April 07 2014 - 09:13 AM

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The game has been vastly improved.. you know_
I did not mention fixing bugs, but that goes without saying. i know that game has been improved.
i just forgot say about this above

attention. whining
I would be willing to sacrifice current crosshair customization for the return of the old cockpit and interactive crosshair.
but devs say their "no".

#53 Valimer

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Posted April 07 2014 - 10:51 AM

@Nepacaka: thats my point. Everyone is going to want something sifferent from this game. Thats why they dont put hundreds of people in charge of a games design, no one will agree to the same thing. Its up to the developer to determine what the game is going to be like. All we can do is provide feedback.

I will say however that from an objective standpoint, Hawken is advertized as a realistic mech simulation game which Hawkens current state does not reflect.

#54 kanmuri

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Posted April 07 2014 - 11:07 AM

View PostValimer, on April 07 2014 - 10:51 AM, said:

@Nepacaka: thats my point. Everyone is going to want something sifferent from this game. Thats why they dont put hundreds of people in charge of a games design, no one will agree to the same thing. Its up to the developer to determine what the game is going to be like. All we can do is provide feedback.

I will say however that from an objective standpoint, Hawken is advertized as a realistic mech simulation game which Hawkens current state does not reflect.

So I'm want to know the direction of the developer.
Plan update_
This game is what makes sports FPS_
Or become a robot game_

It is not told me anything recently.
I'm looking forward to this game.
So I want you to tell me the plans for the future.

#55 The_Silencer

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Posted April 07 2014 - 11:51 AM

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attention. whining
I would be willing to sacrifice current crosshair customization for the return of the old cockpit and interactive crosshair.
but devs say their "no".

As is Space-Time continuum you can not travel backwards with so ease (assuming there's a way to do that, would not be worth at all at this stage and as Mr. Hughes officially stated time ago from a -basically- raw coding standpoint in these forums).

Lemme tell ya.. having radar back on the top of the screen (even allowing to the end-user to pick up what side of the screen he/she wants to place it) plus the brand new cross-hair customizations I can state that I'm almost 100% cool with the latest ingame UI improvements and steps forward made into this direction. My performance on the battlefield is back to what it was long time ago. Yes, I was one of those who payed with blood those changes in the past (due to a number of cognoscitive and interface related reasons...).

So right now, what I think would be cool is cockpit integration or, by default, allowing to the end-user moving those 2 data bars to the place in which he/she feels more comfortable. The later from an immersion and overall game feedbacl stand points. Well, I'm repeating myself on this, my apologies. :)

Oh, I should have used an small font here... c'mon!. :lol: :D

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#56 nepacaka

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Posted April 07 2014 - 11:59 AM

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Thats why they dont put hundreds of people in charge of a games design, no one will agree to the same thing.
It's some kind of trolling_ or jokes on me_

Nepacaka wants:
to the developers made the game in the same style. I want them to make maps like Prosk, Origin and Uptown. I want them to make mechs out of trash who are fighting in cyberpunk cities!

I want them to be stuck to the original concept of designers! I want them to designers, did everything in original concept, which was at the beginning!
You do not understand what I just ask them to do so as they did! I'm not asking them to change anything!

But they (devs) changed. You say that they do not employ hundred Designers, that the game was in the same style. And that's fine.
But people are asking forest. And they get a stupid forest. They ask for maps with lava and gorge, and other stupid.
Do you think this is normal_ to such idiocy appeared in Hawken_

All I ask them - do not change original design. But they changed it.


I ask - "devs, please don't create something stupid!"
People ask - "devs, please create something stupid!"

@Valimer: ^ this is my point!

---
I'm not talking about game balance, matchmaking, performance, or bugs. I'm talking only about the visual style of game. And I do not understand why the developers themselves violate it.

Ordinary map editor could make maps in a thousand times better than Bunker and LastEko. A thousand times! using same textures and combining various elements of the gigastructure + added some news.
Moreover, in such a way could be created under the already 20 similar stylistic maps that are attractive to the majority. For I do not know that someone does not like map designed like Prosk.  There are someone does not like how look Prosk map_ i think no.

So why do not_ with this approach, we could get 1 map per month! and more variety in game modes. This map for DM only. This map for TDM and MA only. This map for Siege and TDM only. also, People start more play in different game modes. Because we start have map like "MA only", or "Siege only". I'm somewhere wrong_

But people want a "unique" forest map...if we ignore fact, that the Prosk looks like something "unique", and LastEko looks like a regular forest in World of Warcraft. Really uniqure map. sure.


well...now we have a "unique" maps. 8 unique maps. instead 20 "ordinary" maps looks like prosk...and don't tell me that UE3 don't contain map-editor, and they drawing all maps by hand


the_silencer, your apologies accepted. but this is not changed our current reality (q_q)


---edit
some mistakes

Edited by nepacaka, April 07 2014 - 12:08 PM.


#57 The_Silencer

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Posted April 07 2014 - 12:06 PM

View Postnepacaka, on April 07 2014 - 11:59 AM, said:

the_silencer, your apologies accepted.

Still awaiting to accept yours and.. my dear pilot.. pull yourself together!

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#58 Vinushka

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Posted April 07 2014 - 12:15 PM

View Postkanmuri, on April 07 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

View PostValimer, on April 07 2014 - 10:51 AM, said:

@Nepacaka: thats my point. Everyone is going to want something sifferent from this game. Thats why they dont put hundreds of people in charge of a games design, no one will agree to the same thing. Its up to the developer to determine what the game is going to be like. All we can do is provide feedback.

I will say however that from an objective standpoint, Hawken is advertized as a realistic mech simulation game which Hawkens current state does not reflect.

So I'm want to know the direction of the developer.
Plan update_
This game is what makes sports FPS_
Or become a robot game_

It is not told me anything recently.
I'm looking forward to this game.
So I want you to tell me the plans for the future.

Well as I think you know, the direction is leaning more to "sports FPS". I agree with you though. I've played since beta and I do think we have lost a lot of the cool "mech game" features Hawken used to have. On another forum recently some new steam players were saying things like "it would be cool if fuel and health were actual gauges on the mech's cockpit" or "it would be cool if we had more options to upgrade our mechs" and I just had a laugh because those things we're already removed from the game. I would love if Hawken went full mech game, but I also think it would make the game too niche. At least the current direction will appeal to a broader audience and allow the player base of Hawken to grow. While I may not have liked all of the changes and things we've lost along the way, I understand why. A slightly compromised vision is better than a dead game.

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#59 DeltaCluster

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Posted April 07 2014 - 12:33 PM

View PostVinushka, on April 07 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:

View Postkanmuri, on April 07 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

View PostValimer, on April 07 2014 - 10:51 AM, said:

@Nepacaka: thats my point. Everyone is going to want something sifferent from this game. Thats why they dont put hundreds of people in charge of a games design, no one will agree to the same thing. Its up to the developer to determine what the game is going to be like. All we can do is provide feedback.

I will say however that from an objective standpoint, Hawken is advertized as a realistic mech simulation game which Hawkens current state does not reflect.

So I'm want to know the direction of the developer.
Plan update_
This game is what makes sports FPS_
Or become a robot game_

It is not told me anything recently.
I'm looking forward to this game.
So I want you to tell me the plans for the future.

Well as I think you know, the direction is leaning more to "sports FPS". I agree with you though. I've played since beta and I do think we have lost a lot of the cool "mech game" features Hawken used to have. On another forum recently some new steam players were saying things like "it would be cool if fuel and health were actual gauges on the mech's cockpit" or "it would be cool if we had more options to upgrade our mechs" and I just had a laugh because those things we're already removed from the game. I would love if Hawken went full mech game, but I also think it would make the game too niche. At least the current direction will appeal to a broader audience and allow the player base of Hawken to grow. While I may not have liked all of the changes and things we've lost along the way, I understand why. A slightly compromised vision is better than a dead game.

I agree. But I would be happy if the Devs could bring some features back into that game because many features made the game unique. E.g. the A class mechs don't have some chances to survive now. You are able to finnish them too easy. That destroys a lot of fun because HAWKEN is no challenge anymore.

Edited by DeltaCluster, April 07 2014 - 12:34 PM.


#60 Vinushka

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Posted April 07 2014 - 12:52 PM

また、フォーラムに来て、意見を言ってしてありがとう。 結局、メカビデオゲームに関する日本人の意見は特別。

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