31 replies to this topic

[huyzer]

I have an:
AMD Athlon 7750 Dual-Core @2.7 GHz,
4gb RAM Corsair XMS2 ddr2 DHX dual path ( http://www.amazon.co...y/dp/B000Q061WU ),
GTX 570 card.
edit: Foxconn a79a-s motherboard ( http://www.newegg.co...N82E16813186149 ),
edit: Thermaltake 700w Toughpower ( http://www.newegg.co...N82E16817153039 ),
edit: Zalman cpu cooler ( http://www.amazon.co...lman cpu cooler ).

What is the first purchase that would have to most significant effect so that I can run Ultra Ultra on Hawken, and also help with encoding video output in Premiere Pro_ Should I buy an SSD, RAM, CPU, or GPU (possibly GTX 760).  Currently on Low Low graphics (Ultra too much; around 12-15fps only).

Maybe there is a bottleneck in the amount of RAM I have_  Or maybe it's the CPU_

Any experience in this would be appreciated.  Please don't suggest a new computer.   Just one component with the most effect on improving things (which I can use later on).

Thank you.

Edited by huyzer, September 11 2014 - 08:43 PM.

[bacon_avenger]

I remember you from #hawkenscrim

Unfortunately, my suggestion is still the same.  You need a new CPU and motherboard to go with it.

Your current CPU only supports DDR2, which isn't that inexpensive compared to current prices for DDR3.  Also, the board probably (99.99% sure) isn't keyed for DDR3 as well.

You are better off just biting the bullet and getting one of the combo deals I pointed out on Tiger Direct or Newegg.  Trying to upgrade the CPU on that system is just going to be throwing money away for very little return and very short term usability before it's going to be replaced.

EDIT:  I mentioned this to a friend who is really good at doing some serious tuning on systems suggested finding a Athlon 64 X2 6400+ cheap, assuming your motherboard supports it.

The 6400+ has a larger L2 cache and the hypertransport is an even number, making the memory divider match, which can lead to a better performing system.

Considering said friend was running that exact same chip with a NV 8800GT 1 gig (now upgraded to a 750ti) and was able to play hawken with most of the eye candy turned on with 8 gigs of system RAM, he tends to know his stuff.

Edited by bacon_avenger, September 10 2014 - 04:18 PM.

[xeroslash]

You need a CPU upgrade. Like, now.

If your board supports AM3 (some boards had both AM2+ and AM3 support), for a quick and dirty upgrade, get a Phenom II x4 955. You probably will not be able to find any in stores at this point, it's ancient tech; but if you can score a cheap used one, it's worth a shot if your motherboard supports AM3.

Realistically, you need to get a new motherboard + CPU. It depends on your budget, but generally you're aiming for the i3/FX6300 price range to start off with.

[Silverfire]

The CPU is bottleneck, it seems.  Get a new CPU, but it will NOT be worth it.  You'd be spending money for a very short term gain with zero long term gain given the age of your components.

That CPU socket is AM2, so you'd really be buying an old CPU, which probably isn't worth it, imo in the long run.  It also only supports DDR2 RAM, which is also old, also not entirely worth upgrading in the long run.  You can't get newer CPUs or newer RAM because it has different slots (AMD is now AM3+ and FM2, and RAM is now DDR3) and it won't fit.  If you do upgrade now, you will not be able to use the same component in the future if you get a newer computer because it won't fit.

I hate to say it, but I really do recommend getting a new rig.  Many of your components are not compatible with newer stuff (except the graphics card). What you would need for the long run is a new CPU, new RAM, and a new motherboard (which is essentially getting a new computer).  You can reuse your graphics card (it's still pretty decent), and possibly your computer case and power supply, but that all depends on any parts you buy.

Try checking out TigerDirect and Newegg, as they usually have very decent bundle deals for computers. http://www.newegg.co....aspx_StoreID=7

If you really are against getting a new rig (although you can get some really cheap, good rigs for sub $400-500 from Newegg bundle deals), then find a CPU compatible with the AM2 socket (but again, I really do NOT recommend it due to very little long term value in the purchase).  A quick search yielded that a bunch of major online electronics providers do not carry the AM2 socket anymore because it's really outdated. You might be able to scrape up a used one, but really.  It's not worth upgrading it in the long run. At all. Sorry


If you give me a price range of what you're willing to spend, I'd be more than happy to compile a list of possible computers you could build or buy within that budget.

Edited by Silverfire, September 10 2014 - 02:46 PM.

[nokari]

As the others have said, you need to upgrade your CPU and the motherboard if you ever want to use Ultra settings. You'll also want more RAM and a 64-bit OS to maximize its potential.

Earlier this year I gutted my computer, because I was in a similar situation as you are. I went further than you're probably looking to customize, but overall after upgrading almost all hardware components, I spent about $1100 and can run Hawken with the highest settings without issue. Here's my build: https://community.pl...lding-building/
You could easily go cheaper and pick different manufacturers for a budget build that would be much better than what you currently have.

If you're considering upgrading parts on your own, rather than buying another computer, use this site to pick things and find the best prices: http://pcpartpicker.com/
If you're considering buying a pre-built computer, I'd also recommend the bundles on NewEgg.

Edited by nokari, September 10 2014 - 02:43 PM.

[Sam123456]

Your graphics card is fine. My old comp was running hawken on medium or high with I think a 560ti. A 570 is a bit faster than a 560ti, so that isn't your bottleneck.

Sorry to confirm that you may indeed want to think about a new mobo+cpu.

[bacon_avenger]

(Added new info to my post.)

[Silverfire]

bacon_avenger, on September 10 2014 - 04:19 PM, said:

(Added new info to my post.)

And the info is very relevant.  My seal of approval.

bacon_avenger, on September 10 2014 - 02:24 PM, said:

EDIT:  I mentioned this to a friend who is really good at doing some serious tuning on systems suggested finding a Athlon 64 X2 6400+ cheap, assuming your motherboard supports it.

The 6400+ has a larger L2 cache and the hypertransport is an even number, making the memory divider match, which can lead to a better performing system.

Considering said friend was running that exact same chip with a NV 8800GT 1 gig (now upgraded to a 750ti) and was able to play hawken with most of the eye candy turned on with 8 gigs of system RAM, he tends to know his stuff.

[huyzer]

THANKS, ALL!!!!

Thank you for taking the time in giving me the advice and sharing your knowledge.  

bacon_avenger:  It was me on the IRC. haha  Thank you for asking your friend and updating that info about the AMD 64 x2.  I'll keep it in mind and weigh the pros and cons.

xeroslash:  Thank you for pointing to the specific CPU.

Silverfire:  Thank you for ALL the info, and the offer to put together the parts list.  I appreciate it!  Thanks for confirming bacon_avenger's edit.

nokari:  Thanks!  I took a look at your machine, and read the thread.  Thank you for sharing the experience.  $1,100 is way out of my budget.  lol  I just wanted something quick and dirty and cheap.  

Sam123456:  Thank you for the experience with the GTX 570 and confirming it's not the bottleneck.  What is your CPU and RAM specs_  So, you're running on Ultra at what FPS now with that comp and card_  Thanks.

Edited by huyzer, September 10 2014 - 04:59 PM.

[Barbie_in_a_Mech]

I don't know if you really need 1100$ to be able to comfortably play on ultra settings, but asking to play Hawken on ultra with a limited budget is not being very realistic, unless you're fine with your framerate being low.

You could at least get a rather significant upgrade with 300$.

Have a quick look at prices
CPU
Motherboard
RAM (DDR3 2133 if motherboard supports it.  1600 is a bit cheaper.)


You'd at least get a better FPS than now on ultra, and you would be able to play with higher settings than now if you value your framerate.

It's a cheap upgrade that should last you a good few years.  It should be enough to support your next GPU upgrade in a couple of years when your budget allows it.  Of course you can get better if you're willing to put more money.

[huyzer]

Barbie_in_a_Mech, on September 10 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:

I don't know if you really need 1100$ to be able to comfortably play on ultra settings, but asking to play Hawken on ultra with a limited budget is not being very realistic, unless you're fine with your framerate being low.

Yeah, I'm not sure if I was being realistic or not; not experience enough with the computer tech to make a fair judgment.  But with yours and others input, I'm slowly learning. haha.  Thank for the links and input.

[Silverfire]

huyzer, on September 10 2014 - 06:58 PM, said:

Barbie_in_a_Mech, on September 10 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:

I don't know if you really need 1100$ to be able to comfortably play on ultra settings, but asking to play Hawken on ultra with a limited budget is not being very realistic, unless you're fine with your framerate being low.

Yeah, I'm not sure if I was being realistic or not; not experience enough with the computer tech to make a fair judgment.  But with yours and others input, I'm slowly learning. haha.  Thank for the links and input.

Just going to say, it's quite possible to run Hawken on ultra and pay under $1000 for it.  I can probably list multiple builds that can do so.

You can probably do ultra Hawken at around $700-800 with a new computer from the ground up. $600 if you really squeeze and grind and cut a few corners.

I mean I can play on ultra Hawken at 30-40 FPS with my build listed in my sig.  But I run on medium settings in order to get 100+ FPS, which is more essential to better gameplay than pretty trees and light rays.

Edited by Silverfire, September 10 2014 - 07:14 PM.

[nokari]

Silverfire, on September 10 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:

huyzer, on September 10 2014 - 06:58 PM, said:

Barbie_in_a_Mech, on September 10 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:

I don't know if you really need 1100$ to be able to comfortably play on ultra settings, but asking to play Hawken on ultra with a limited budget is not being very realistic, unless you're fine with your framerate being low.

Yeah, I'm not sure if I was being realistic or not; not experience enough with the computer tech to make a fair judgment.  But with yours and others input, I'm slowly learning. haha.  Thank for the links and input.

Just going to say, it's quite possible to run Hawken on ultra and pay under $1000 for it.  I can probably list multiple builds that can do so.

You can probably do ultra Hawken at around $700-800 with a new computer from the ground up. $600 if you really squeeze and grind and cut a few corners.

I mean I can play on ultra Hawken at 30-40 FPS with my build listed in my sig.  But I run on medium settings in order to get 100+ FPS, which is more essential to better gameplay than pretty trees and light rays.

Definitely under $1100. I could have gotten the same or similar performance with cheaper, lower spec hardware upgrades. The only reason I went with what I did was because I wanted fresh, high enough performance to last a lot longer and still be upgradable.

Edited by nokari, September 10 2014 - 08:33 PM.

[Spliff_Craven]

Some people are cheap and some just can't afford an upgrade. Most fall in the latter category.

I sent him a PM but I will add some extra's over looked.

Flash USB stick as Virtual RAM. It expands your cache without paging to drive.
Hack: http://lifehacker.co...tra-virtual-ram

And the version of windows was never asked... Win XP you are kinds stuck with a 4 gig top out.
Windows Vista - 7 You have a minimum of 4 - 16gig recognition pending the version and as high as 192 if I remember correctly...
Windows 8... I know nothing about it. As soon as I saw it's interface I went back to windows 7.

[Draigun]

Silverfire, on September 10 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:

[...]
You can probably do ultra Hawken at around $700-800 with a new computer from the ground up. $600 if you really squeeze and grind and cut a few corners.

[...]

Sorry, but this is simply not true. I have rather high-end components with a GTX 780, and that alone cost me 3/4 of what your price target is. I'm even running PhysX on high. Even with that all, I still encounter severe bottlenecks in very specific places. I could push Ultra roughly 85% of the time, however. Part of the problem is the developer's poor optimization on both client and server side settings.

The way to get the best price-to-performance ratio for a gaming PC, is to just focus on the GPU.

Honestly, I would have spent the extra $125 for 2 way sli GTX 770, which is roughly a 170% boost over the GTX 780 as a single card.


Now, to the OP, I suggest getting an NVIDIA GPU, as HAWKEN is developed with that brand of video card in mind.

Edited by Draigun, September 10 2014 - 11:24 PM.

[Zacam]

As the user that bacon_avenger mentioned, I managed rather well to get decent settings operating on my setup.

In fact, I'm still running that set up, with the exception of changing out the 8800 GT 1GB with a 750Ti 2GB, which essentially allowed me to crank up the nVidia Inspector settings for Anti-Aliasing a little higher without any changes to my game configuration.

To be honest, I did adjust some settings within the game in the begining, but now I rely solely on the in-game options (such as turning off Motion Blur, Depth of Field, Bloom, Film Grain and Static Effect) for aesthetic purposes. But I otherwise play at 1080p Borderless, PhysX Particles "On" with Texture Detail and Graphics Quality on "Ultra", and again, the only thing that changed when I switched video cards was upping the forced Anti-Aliasing via nVidia Inspector. I'm debating turning off Ambient Occlusion, simply because it visually doesn't seem to impart any decent visual aesthetic, but that may just be because it's not being properly utilized by the card's profile settings in the driver.

AMD processors in terms of the AM2/AM2+/AM3 are all generally accommodating. You can run an AM2 processor on an AM2+ Socket (and vice versus), you can even run an AM3 processor in an AM2+ Socket (do note that AM2 and AM2+ processors will NOT work on AM3 Socket board unless it is a Hybrid board that can run both DDR2 and DDR3 and you'll be limited to DDR2 on the AM2/+ CPU's), but you'll need to take care to check the motherboard manufacturers CPU compatibility chart and note if you need a BIOS update.

The biggest thing in your DDR2 setup that is limiting you is the 2.7 Ghz per core. Assuming that your DDR2 is 800 Mhz, 3200 Mhz as a number divided makes for a better parity in the relationship between the two (in that one divides into the other resulting in a whole number).
This is one of the limitations of DDR and DDR2 (which we thankfully don't have to worry about so much with DDR3 or 4 so far as I'm aware, but as I haven't yet built a system based on those, my experience is hearsay at best on the subject and should be taken with a grain of salt, so I'll defer that to more experienced recent architects until such time as I replace my system components).

In any case, best of luck to you. I know well the challenges of keeping legacy hardware on the cutting edge, but the upshot is that things don't always stay unobtainable.

[Silverfire]

Draigun, on September 10 2014 - 11:23 PM, said:

Silverfire, on September 10 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:

[...]
You can probably do ultra Hawken at around $700-800 with a new computer from the ground up. $600 if you really squeeze and grind and cut a few corners.

[...]

Sorry, but this is simply not true. I have rather high-end components with a GTX 780, and that alone cost me 3/4 of what your price target is. I'm even running PhysX on high. Even with that all, I still encounter severe bottlenecks in very specific places. I could push Ultra roughly 85% of the time, however. Part of the problem is the developer's poor optimization on both client and server side settings.

The way to get the best price-to-performance ratio for a gaming PC, is to just focus on the GPU.

Honestly, I would have spent the extra $125 for 2 way sli GTX 770, which is roughly a 170% boost over the GTX 780 as a single card.


Now, to the OP, I suggest getting an NVIDIA GPU, as HAWKEN is developed with that brand of video card in mind.

It's very possible. Maybe not for $600, but for $700-800 I can definitely build something that can do ultra.

Again it all depends on parts I would use and the various deals and sales that go on. I've seen deals where I can pick up a Haswell i7 for under $275. Or a 770 for under $300. Under $800_ No problem. Even at normal prices too.

And note that you still ought to have a decent CPU because otherwise, if you build an unbalanced rig, the CPU could very well be the bottleneck once more.

Edited by Silverfire, September 11 2014 - 05:59 AM.

[Silverfire]

Double post

Edited by Silverfire, September 11 2014 - 05:59 AM.

[Barbie_in_a_Mech]

Draigun, on September 10 2014 - 11:23 PM, said:

The way to get the best price-to-performance ratio for a gaming PC, is to just focus on the GPU.
(...)
Now, to the OP, I suggest getting an NVIDIA GPU, as HAWKEN is developed with that brand of video card in mind.

I think your advice is partially good and partially bad.
Yes, the GPU is more important than the CPU for gaming, but if the CPU is so weak that right now it drags the GPU down ("bottlenecking"), then buying a stronger GPU won't help much.  In this kind of context, the most urgent upgrade is the CPU.  Then later it will make more sense to upgrade the GPU, because the newer CPU will be able to support it better.

Edited by Barbie_in_a_Mech, September 11 2014 - 12:49 PM.

[Draigun]

Silverfire, on September 11 2014 - 03:15 AM, said:

Draigun, on September 10 2014 - 11:23 PM, said:

Silverfire, on September 10 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:

[...]
You can probably do ultra Hawken at around $700-800 with a new computer from the ground up. $600 if you really squeeze and grind and cut a few corners.

[...]

Sorry, but this is simply not true. I have rather high-end components with a GTX 780, and that alone cost me 3/4 of what your price target is. I'm even running PhysX on high. Even with that all, I still encounter severe bottlenecks in very specific places. I could push Ultra roughly 85% of the time, however. Part of the problem is the developer's poor optimization on both client and server side settings.

The way to get the best price-to-performance ratio for a gaming PC, is to just focus on the GPU.

Honestly, I would have spent the extra $125 for 2 way sli GTX 770, which is roughly a 170% boost over the GTX 780 as a single card.


Now, to the OP, I suggest getting an NVIDIA GPU, as HAWKEN is developed with that brand of video card in mind.

It's very possible. Maybe not for $600, but for $700-800 I can definitely build something that can do ultra.

Again it all depends on parts I would use and the various deals and sales that go on. I've seen deals where I can pick up a Haswell i7 for under $275. Or a 770 for under $300. Under $800_ No problem. Even at normal prices too.

And note that you still ought to have a decent CPU because otherwise, if you build an unbalanced rig, the CPU could very well be the bottleneck once more.

So, by Ultra settings, I'm assuming you're going to be running everything, including PhysX, at the maximum settings_ My definition of pushing ultra is keeping a minimum constant FPS equal to the monitor's refresh rate, which is 60Hz, or 60 FPS. If you're sensitive to input lag and FPS below 50 like me, it is a pain for it to fluctuate and bottleneck, and severely ruins the fluidity of the game.

I could see how the deals could lower the price of the entire rig altogether dramatically, however. You would seriously have to cut a lot of corners although, and even then, it could be considered risky for the quality of the components. You must ask yourself, is longevity and reliability more important than budget_ Other than that, yes, I agree, balancing the rig is rather something to note. I actually had a GTX 460 with a lowly i3, and the performance was more or less balanced for the games. However, new games are now optimized to utilize 4 cores instead of 2, so that could partially explain that.

As a sidenote that I'll include, don't get a cheap PSU if you're planning to build, or have someone build, an entire rig, OP. The PSU is often the most important item to choose, and it influences the other component's stability for good or bad. Settling for a cheap PSU, may or may not do damage to your computer, and worst case, may fry all of the circuitry in the rig.

Barbie_in_a_Mech, on September 11 2014 - 12:42 PM, said:

Draigun, on September 10 2014 - 11:23 PM, said:

The way to get the best price-to-performance ratio for a gaming PC, is to just focus on the GPU.
(...)
Now, to the OP, I suggest getting an NVIDIA GPU, as HAWKEN is developed with that brand of video card in mind.

[...]
Yes, the GPU is more important than the CPU for gaming, but if the CPU is so weak that right now it drags the GPU down ("bottlenecking"), then buying a stronger GPU won't help much.  In this kind of context, the most urgent upgrade is the CPU.  Then later it will make more sense to upgrade the GPU, because the newer CPU will be able to support it better.

Agreed, to an extent. Things like turbo boost and hyperthreading tremendously help in this case. I'm not too knowledgeable about AMD processors, but I believe they also implement some performance perks in their CPUs.

Edited by Draigun, September 11 2014 - 01:21 PM.