18 replies to this topic

[DeFrank]

I'm new so forgive me if this has already been brought up. I think that the points for assists need adjusted. I just went 16/5 and had 2 people above me in rank with 9 and 11 kills. I don't necessarily feel that assist point should be taken out completely, but with the current scoring system it seems more beneficial to shoot at everything with reckless abandon instead of try to stay alive since every point of damage nets you points. Careful and skilled play is being punished and the problem with that is that it is dumb.

I suppose it could be fixed by giving more xp for kills or reducing the value of assists.

[DeFrank]

Also, regarding the "shoot until you die" strategy: Dying seems to be the only way to refresh your specials, which promotes reckless play even more.

[Inny]

You shouldn't be afraid of dying. That's what keeps it fast paced. There is no shame in blowing up if you can take an enemy or two with you. And it's incredibly satisfying when you get a 14 kill streak.

As a side note, if you do get a significant kill streak without dying, you do get a significantly large bonus to your XP.

Edited by Inny, November 11 2012 - 12:07 PM.

[DeFrank]

Inny, on November 11 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

You shouldn't be afraid of dying. That's what keeps it fast paced. There is no shame in blowing up if you can take an enemy or two with you. And it's incredibly satisfying when you get a 14 kill streak.

I see your point. But there's a fine line between keeping the game fast-paced and spam promotion. It seems like with the game in its current form too much is hinging on the pure luck of how many people happen to end up in front of you or in your vicinity. There is little motivation or reward for finishing the job, just fire until you're dead.

[bacon_avenger]

One of the biggest annoyances I see when playing in a team match is players whining about 'you stole my kill' or concentrating only on how many kills they get, often to the detriment of the team.  The current system, I think, does a pretty good job in balancing out the points given between landing the final blow and helping wear the enemy down.

Don't forget that assist points are also based on how much damage you did to a particular target, and there is a time limit (IIRC it's 10 seconds) placed on when it applies (you can't get an assist for someone being killed that out hit 30 seconds ago).  Of course, this may be bugged as well, and I've not been in a situation to be able to test these limits myself.

[DarkPulse]

DeFrank, on November 11 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

I'm new so forgive me if this has already been brought up. I think that the points for assists need adjusted. I just went 16/5 and had 2 people above me in rank with 9 and 11 kills. I don't necessarily feel that assist point should be taken out completely, but with the current scoring system it seems more beneficial to shoot at everything with reckless abandon instead of try to stay alive since every point of damage nets you points. Careful and skilled play is being punished and the problem with that is that it is dumb.

I suppose it could be fixed by giving more xp for kills or reducing the value of assists.

Leaderboard is actually sorted by XP gained, not by K/D Ratio. So while you had the higher kills, they got more XP - so they were technically better players than you.

[DeFrank]

DarkPulse, on November 11 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

DeFrank, on November 11 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

I'm new so forgive me if this has already been brought up. I think that the points for assists need adjusted. I just went 16/5 and had 2 people above me in rank with 9 and 11 kills. I don't necessarily feel that assist point should be taken out completely, but with the current scoring system it seems more beneficial to shoot at everything with reckless abandon instead of try to stay alive since every point of damage nets you points. Careful and skilled play is being punished and the problem with that is that it is dumb.

I suppose it could be fixed by giving more xp for kills or reducing the value of assists.

Leaderboard is actually sorted by XP gained, not by K/D Ratio. So while you had the higher kills, they got more XP - so they were technically better players than you.

Right. They got more XP as a result of the way the current xp is calculated. That's what prompted the post.

[MK501]

I think this game does a wonderful job with the current scoring system ( at least for the objective based modes ). I'm very happy it doesn't focus on the K/D ratio in essence, the reward for assists seems to be right in place. In my opinion, the way the scroing is being handled actually promotes teamplay, as it should be.

[DeFrank]

MK501, on November 12 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

I think this game does a wonderful job with the current scoring system ( at least for the objective based modes ). I'm very happy it doesn't focus on the K/D ratio in essence, the reward for assists seems to be right in place. In my opinion, the way the scroing is being handled actually promotes teamplay, as it should be.

I can agree with that. It's the deathmatch scoring that I believe to have an issue.

[DarkPulse]

DeFrank, on November 12 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

Right. They got more XP as a result of the way the current xp is calculated. That's what prompted the post.

Well, the relative value of both kills and assists is dictacted by how much damage was caused. Whoever did the most damage to the mech before it's destroyed will get the lion's share of the XP, regardless of who landed the kill shot. (There's also some other factors as well, like kill streaks, etc. but I'm just speaking in regular terms here.)

This is how a person can have a better K/D but be lower on the XP ladder - they basically got the final shots, but the guys who did most of the fighting got more of the XP - putting them on top of you.

Edited by DarkPulse, November 12 2012 - 09:25 AM.

[Nitris]

@OP: Exp amount gained for a kill or assist is not a flat amount, it is based on how much damage you have done before the enemy died, and as far as I have seen there is no boost for landing the finishing blow.

This in and of itself is enough to make pinging everyone just a few times with your AR and not attempting to get kills or do real damage fairly pointless, and also on the flip side of that kill stealing is also not going to be getting you much EXP if all you did was do the last 5% total damage.

I see no problem with this, at all.

What probably happened with those two pilots higher up on the scoreboard than you was that they were either doing the actual objectives of the gametype (dropping off EU, capping silos) or indeed, having their kills stolen-- possibly by you_ It is not important, because the fact is you don't and cannot earn EXP for doing absolutely nothing, therefore they earned that EXP and their places on the scoreboard.

[DeFrank]

Nitris, on November 12 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

@OP: Exp amount gained for a kill or assist is not a flat amount, it is based on how much damage you have done before the enemy died, and as far as I have seen there is no boost for landing the finishing blow.

This in and of itself is enough to make pinging everyone just a few times with your AR and not attempting to get kills or do real damage fairly pointless, and also on the flip side of that kill stealing is also not going to be getting you much EXP if all you did was do the last 5% total damage.

I see no problem with this, at all.

What probably happened with those two pilots higher up on the scoreboard than you was that they were either doing the actual objectives of the gametype (dropping off EU, capping silos) or indeed, having their kills stolen-- possibly by you_ It is not important, because the fact is you don't and cannot earn EXP for doing absolutely nothing, therefore they earned that EXP and their places on the scoreboard.

I guess what I was doing could be qualified as kill stealing, but in a pure deathmatch matchtype I think that distinction should be made a bit differently I guess.

In deathmatch it seems like it makes little sense to try to stay alive, that's what I take issue with. Why go heal and try to survive if there are no benefits whatsoever_ There is no XP penalty for dying. Just deal as much damage until you are dead and then you respawn with no countdown whatsoever with all abilities restocked.

Admittedly, in other matchtypes though this less of a problem.

[Frenotx]

You get awarded bonus XP for kill streaks. The penalty for dying is having your streak reset (also being put out of the action, wasting time that could be spent getting points).

[DeFrank]

Frenotx, on November 12 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

You get awarded bonus XP for kill streaks. The penalty for dying is having your streak reset (also being put out of the action, wasting time that could be spent getting points).

The killstreak bonus defninitely lightens the blow. I was completely unaware of it. Thanks for the info.

[DarkPulse]

Be warned: Long post.

XP gained in a nutshell:

Spoiler

• Damage: 0-100 XP depending on how much damage you did. Straight-up percentile.
  
• Kill: 20 XP. (Thus, a full kill on an enemy mech where you did all damage should net you 120 XP pretty much every time, unless other factors apply.)
  
• Assist: 10 XP.
  
• Killstreaks: Bonus 45 XP at 3 kills, 35 XP at 5 kills, 25 XP at 7 kills.
  
• Ending a killstreak: 25 XP.
  
• Multikills: 40 XP for a double kill, 35 XP for a triple kill, 30 XP for a quadra kill, 25 XP for a super kill, 20 XP for a mega kill (AKA wiping out the whole enemy team). If you score it, you net yourself an extra 150 XP from the cumulative bonuses. Each kill must be within 6 seconds of the previous one.
  
• Avenger: 10 XP. Must kill someone who killed a teammate within 5 seconds of the teammate's death.
  
• Revenge: 15 XP. Only counts for the person who last killed you. I think you can kill other people in the interim, but obviously this gets set to someone else every respawn.
  
• Nemesis: 75 XP. This person must have killed you five times before they qualify as a Nemesis. I'm not sure if the kills have to be consecutive or not.
  
• Savior: 15 XP. To qualify as a Savior, your teammate must be under 25% armor, they must have been damaged by the person you killed within the last 5 seconds, and they have to have dealt at least 50% of the damage your teammate has suffered.
  
• Zero Deaths: 200 XP. Match must be at least five minutes long.
  
• EU Transfer: 1 XP per EU.
  
• Battleship turret destruction: 125 XP.
  
• Battleship engine destruction: 200 XP.
  
• Unscathed Base bonus (Siege): 200 XP if your base never takes damage.
  
• AA Control (friendly): 100 XP for converting the AA from neutral to friendly. 75 XP for the entire team every 10 seconds you control the AA. 10 XP for every kill made in the AA's radius.
  
• AA Control (hostile): 150 XP for the entire team every time you launch an AA missile. 25 XP for every kill made in the AA's radius.
  
• AA Control (misc): 15 XP if you and your enemy are both in the AA radius when you get a kill. 10 XP for a successful AA attack or defense.
  
• AA Control (Assist): 10 XP if you and your enemy are both in the AA radius when you get an assist. 5 XP for a successful AA attack assist or defense assist.
  
• Silo conversion: 25 XP.
  
• Silo Control: 100 XP for any kill made in the silo's control radius. 15 XP if you and your enemy are both in the AA radius when you get a kill. 10 XP for a successful AA attack or defense.
  
• Silo Control (Assist): 10 XP if you and your enemy are both in the AA radius when you get an assist. 5 XP for a successful AA attack assist or defense assist.

Hawken Points gained in a nutshell. BE ADVISED, THIS INFO IS PROBABLY INCORRECT. Anything I am not sure on, I put question marks instead.

Spoiler

• Maximum that can ever be obtained in any single match: 360 HP_
  
• Time Bonus: 5.3 HP per minute of play_
  
• Match win (SG): 45 HP.
  
• Match win (MA): 28 HP.
  
• Match win (TDM): 20 HP.
  
• Match win (DM): _ HP.
  
• Match loss (SG): 25 HP.
  
• Match loss (MA_): _ HP.
  
• Match loss (TDM): 13 HP.
  
• Match loss (DM): 10 HP.
  
• Place finishes (SG): 25/_/_/_/_/_ for 1st-6th place.
  
• Place finishes (MA): 15/12/9_/6_/3_/0_ for 1st-6th place.
  
• Place finishes (TDM): 13/8/_/_/_/_ for 1st-6th place.
  
• Place finishes (DM): _/20/_/_/_/_ for 1st-6th+ place.

Edited by DarkPulse, November 12 2012 - 03:54 PM.

[c0mad0r]

bacon_avenger, on November 11 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

One of the biggest annoyances I see when playing in a team match is players whining about 'you stole my kill' or concentrating only on how many kills they get, often to the detriment of the team.  The current system, I think, does a pretty good job in balancing out the points given between landing the final blow and helping wear the enemy down.

Don't forget that assist points are also based on how much damage you did to a particular target, and there is a time limit (IIRC it's 10 seconds) placed on when it applies (you can't get an assist for someone being killed that out hit 30 seconds ago).  Of course, this may be bugged as well, and I've not been in a situation to be able to test these limits myself.

Not to mention the amount of power-up health received off of the dead is directly proportional to the amount of damage you inflicted on that person/mech. The random pickup health is all one-size from what I can tell.

[ItsThatGuy]

DarkPulse, on November 12 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

Be warned: Long post.

XP gained in a nutshell:

Spoiler

• Damage: 0-100 XP depending on how much damage you did. Straight-up percentile.
  
• Kill: 20 XP. (Thus, a full kill on an enemy mech where you did all damage should net you 120 XP pretty much every time, unless other factors apply.)
  
• Assist: 10 XP.
  
• Killstreaks: Bonus 45 XP at 3 kills, 35 XP at 5 kills, 25 XP at 7 kills.
  
• Ending a killstreak: 25 XP.
  
• Multikills: 40 XP for a double kill, 35 XP for a triple kill, 30 XP for a quadra kill, 25 XP for a super kill, 20 XP for a mega kill (AKA wiping out the whole enemy team). If you score it, you net yourself an extra 150 XP from the cumulative bonuses. Each kill must be within 6 seconds of the previous one.
  
• Avenger: 10 XP. Must kill someone who killed a teammate within 5 seconds of the teammate's death.
  
• Revenge: 15 XP. Only counts for the person who last killed you. I think you can kill other people in the interim, but obviously this gets set to someone else every respawn.
  
• Nemesis: 75 XP. This person must have killed you five times before they qualify as a Nemesis. I'm not sure if the kills have to be consecutive or not.
  
• Savior: 15 XP. To qualify as a Savior, your teammate must be under 25% armor, they must have been damaged by the person you killed within the last 5 seconds, and they have to have dealt at least 50% of the damage your teammate has suffered.
  
• Zero Deaths: 200 XP. Match must be at least five minutes long.
  
• EU Transfer: 1 XP per EU.
  
• Battleship turret destruction: 125 XP.
  
• Battleship engine destruction: 200 XP.
  
• Unscathed Base bonus (Siege): 200 XP if your base never takes damage.
  
• AA Control (friendly): 100 XP for converting the AA from neutral to friendly. 75 XP for the entire team every 10 seconds you control the AA. 10 XP for every kill made in the AA's radius.
  
• AA Control (hostile): 150 XP for the entire team every time you launch an AA missile. 25 XP for every kill made in the AA's radius.
  
• AA Control (misc): 15 XP if you and your enemy are both in the AA radius when you get a kill. 10 XP for a successful AA attack or defense.
  
• AA Control (Assist): 10 XP if you and your enemy are both in the AA radius when you get an assist. 5 XP for a successful AA attack assist or defense assist.
  
• Silo conversion: 25 XP.
  
• Silo Control: 100 XP for any kill made in the silo's control radius. 15 XP if you and your enemy are both in the AA radius when you get a kill. 10 XP for a successful AA attack or defense.
  
• Silo Control (Assist): 10 XP if you and your enemy are both in the AA radius when you get an assist. 5 XP for a successful AA attack assist or defense assist.

Hawken Points gained in a nutshell. BE ADVISED, THIS INFO IS PROBABLY INCORRECT. Anything I am not sure on, I put question marks instead.

Spoiler

• Maximum that can ever be obtained in any single match: 360 HP_
  
• Time Bonus: 5.3 HP per minute of play_
  
• Match win (SG): 45 HP.
  
• Match win (MA): 28 HP.
  
• Match win (TDM): 20 HP.
  
• Match win (DM): _ HP.
  
• Match loss (SG): 25 HP.
  
• Match loss (MA_): _ HP.
  
• Match loss (TDM): 13 HP.
  
• Match loss (DM): 10 HP.
  
• Place finishes (SG): 25/_/_/_/_/_ for 1st-6th place.
  
• Place finishes (MA): 15/12/9_/6_/3_/0_ for 1st-6th place.
  
• Place finishes (TDM): 13/8/_/_/_/_ for 1st-6th place.
  
• Place finishes (DM): _/20/_/_/_/_ for 1st-6th+ place.

jesus where the hell are you getting this info_! Awesome post

Edited by ItsThatGuy, November 12 2012 - 04:20 PM.

[Vertigo]

I think siege is really the most conductive to team play. K/D doesn't mean a thing if you don't pick up the EU of your fallen enemies, which means you need to get in close and personal. Also it might be because C-Class Mechs are actually useful in that mode.

[DarkPulse]

ItsThatGuy, on November 12 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

jesus where the hell are you getting this info_! Awesome post

Partially observation of my screenshots (that's the Hawken Point numbers), partially from digging in game files.