the experimental longer games
#1
Posted 25 April 2015 - 05:38 AM
I do not like 60 kills a gam(e).
I would not like them longer still.
I would not like them, take the Blue pill.
I do not like game times be longer.
The Bang does say short games are stronger!
#3
Posted 25 April 2015 - 06:25 AM
After having played a few matches on those servers, I have mixed feelings.
On the one hand, it can be quite fun, and I like that there's always plenty of action, unlike regular TDM where you can sometimes go several minutes without finding other players. It also makes ragequitters less of a problem.
On the other hand, I hate that it renders many mechs essentially useless, particularly close-range ones such as Predators and Raiders. Obviously, there's still room for these to prosper, but the fact that there are so many enemies makes it almost impossible for one to get close enough for these mechs to be effective. I recently did quite well in a 24-man match as a Raider, but mostly because I mostly stayed at mid-to-long range, which defeats the purpose of playing a Raider at all. The only times I ever really jumped into the fray was when the enemy were extremely low on health. More generally, these larger servers more or less make individual player skill moot, as it mostly comes down to having superior numbers.
The second problem is that these experimental servers are included in the regular TDM queue, as opposed to being their own separate category. I understand that splitting them could, in theory, divide the already small playerbase even further. However, I don't think it would really cause that much of a rift, as I assume there is already a portion of the playerbase that dislikes these large-scale matches, so in practice, I don't expect this would really change things that much. What's sad is that, as I'm writing this, on a Saturday morning during a double-exp weekend, there are hardly any of the 12-man servers that actually have players; most people seem to be in one of these experimental servers.
The last problem, which I consider to be the least important, is simply the lack of a proper interface for these servers. As it is, to my knowledge, you can only ever display the names of the top 6 players on each team, so most of the time you have no clue what your team composition is, as much in terms of players as in terms of mechs. I can only assume that this is something that is being worked on, or that will be worked on.
In conclusion, I enjoy these types of matches, but I find that they definitely shift the dynamic of the game in a direction that isn't necessarily good, because it trivializes individual player skill, and makes several mechs even more niche than they already are. It also has the potential to create a bit of a rift in the playerbase, and given how small that base is, this might not necessarily be a good thing. It mostly comes down to what we (as players) and the developers value more: skill and tactics, or mayhem (which isn't a bad thing in this context).
- Jelooboi and JackVandal like this
#4
Posted 25 April 2015 - 06:26 AM
Mayhem servers? Why, of all silly tricks! I haven't uppers, and I haven't stimsticks!
Me play in longer matches? Why it doesn't make sense!
The maps are so tiny, and Hawken so immense!
- eth0 likes this
Did I say Call Me Ishmael?
You should call me Luna.
#5
Posted 25 April 2015 - 06:52 AM
just tried one of those bigger servers yesterday, it was really a mess, you could not get beyond certain points or you'd be dead in a second, I have to admit it worked a lot better on the big city maps (prosk, front line and origin) but on more open maps like bazaar it ended up with bothe teams hiding behind a rock and shooting occasionally, not really how I wanted hawken to be.
#6
Posted 25 April 2015 - 07:01 AM
mayhem servers are a total clusterf##k. mexican standoff or deathball, no in between on the games i played. As said above skill equaliser as skill less imporant, just stay in a ,big group and get a tech.
if people do like it then it needs a separate que,, as it is very frustrating to que up and continually get dropped into one. i just leave immediately and after 3 attemps or so, i go and play somthing else.
- LaurenEmily likes this
#7
Posted 25 April 2015 - 07:45 AM
I was trying to describe, through butchering Dr Seuss, that normal tdm should remain 40 kills, 15 minutes. HWK made a Facebook post about finding what settings felt the most hawken
#8
Posted 25 April 2015 - 08:36 AM
#9
Posted 25 April 2015 - 08:38 AM
- Waelcyrge likes this
#10
Posted 25 April 2015 - 08:52 AM
- DieselCat likes this
#11
Posted 25 April 2015 - 08:54 AM
- LoC_TR likes this



Come on Crafty, you have been officially called out on your lies. Your online reputation is at stake here, this is just like an old school street race running for pink slips. Its run what you brung and hope its enough. Put up or shut the fuzzy bunny up.
#12
Posted 25 April 2015 - 09:09 AM
The old (Pre-Ascension) values were probably the best. I was pretty drunk last night, but I got dropped into a DM server (Bunker?) that seemed like it had a million players in it, people were joining and leaving constantly. Ended at 2nd place. Next match I queued into was a 24 TDM with 80 kill on Wreckage. It was farking Glorious Carnage: we lost 79:80. Upvote!
:)
It's that time!
#13
Posted 25 April 2015 - 09:54 AM
80 seems appropriate to me. Twice the people twice the time. Besides out of the several 12v12 tdm matches I played yesterday I don't think a single one of them actually lasted more than 12 minutes. That being said I think nobody should be dropped into the 24 person destruction pit that is Bunker without signing a waiver first.
- Rainbow_Sheep likes this
#14
Posted 25 April 2015 - 11:54 AM
I think bigger maps made just for Mayhem servers in the future could help reduce the bottlenecking small maps and larger teams create.
Then more people may find this more enjoyable to play....just a thought
*+
#15
Posted 26 April 2015 - 04:07 AM
As it is, to my knowledge, you can only ever display the names of the top 6 players on each team
You can scroll the list up and down using the mouse wheel.
#16
Posted 27 April 2015 - 05:43 AM
I have mixed feelings on the matter.
For one I enjoyed many of the longer matches with larger teams and the occasional chaos that ensued. There were some games that were extremely satisfying as some matches were really close.
On the other had I played matches that were uneven teams and clearly out skilled as my team was constantly on the run and waiting for more players to join but none were found. These matches made for really long matches that couldn't end fast enough and were filled with multiple players leaving mid-match rather than waiting.
Longer matches demand a longer time commitment from the players and as one who has kids it becomes more difficult to commit to longer matches,
I think it would be nice to still have the option to play the shorter matches while still allowing players who can commit longer the opportunity to play the longer matches.
#17
Posted 27 April 2015 - 07:13 AM
I love the larger, longer matches. It's so much more dynamic and I enjoy the longer opportunity to sway the course of the game. I hope this stays... would even like to see it tried with 18 player Siege matches.
An observation on the large size/player count/time TDM matches: Since my mmr allows me to play with a wider range of players, I notice a much different style of play between higher MMR matches filled with mostly elite players and the lower MMR matches filled with mostly newer players.
The high ranked matches tend to turn into more chaotic clusterfraks where 3 or 4 groups of players form on each team fighting in different areas of the maps... and people complain a lot.
The low ranked matches have players on each team tending to group up in big full-team packs and looking for ground to hold - taking turns popping out from cover and laying down as much fire as they can until they have to go back behind cover to heal... while the next batch takes their turn to pop out and lay down fire. In complete contrast to all other game modes, the lower ranked TDM matches seem to have newer players using a better strategy than the high ranked.
I think this is simply a result of how the veteran players have learned to play TDM. With 6 players on each team, the strategy is much different than with 9 or 12 players on a team, and the longer time means a different strategy as well. I think that the vet players will eventually develop adaptive strategies for larger matches with time and opinions will change.
To be serious for a moment this is just a joke
#18
Posted 27 April 2015 - 08:57 AM
I find high tier play is much more about position and movement trying to force 1v1 or other mismatches perceived or real
Did I say Call Me Ishmael?
You should call me Luna.
#19
Posted 27 April 2015 - 09:44 AM
I've posted this elsewhere, but this seems like a better spot for it.
Initially, I really enjoyed the larger servers, longer match times. The 60 kill/20 minute match was fun and a bit chaotic... the things I love about TDM in the first place. But as the weekend rolled on, I ended up playing in more 80 kill/25? minute matches. By late Saturday afternoon, I started to lose interest in playing, but played anyway. (For the good of the game!) By Sunday afternoon, I would play maybe one or two of these extended matches before needing to take a break. By Sunday evening, I had no desire to play at all and barring being able to find a "normal" or even "shorter" match, I logged off.
I've played close to 800 hours of Hawken, probably 90% of that in TDM and through the quiet period with hardly any players, and never once felt bored with the game... until now. I never thought I'd suffer from Hawken burnout! In part, the longer timer means more time on a single map - and yes, more time playing - but part of the fun for me was playing through to get to my favorite maps. That takes so much longer now and by the time I get to those maps, I am really apathetic toward playing them.
The original 10 minute matches seem entirely too short now though. Maybe a happy medium would be somewhere in the 12-15 minute range? Not sure, but the 20+ minute matches are honestly not doing it for me. I'm not a mid-match quitter, no matter the reason, but there were so many times over this weekend that I just wanted to get up and do anything else other than finish playing one of those long matches... even when the match didn't go the full time, something about it just seemed to drag my enthusiasm down.
As for the number of players... I didn't really mind 18 or 24 players. As someone else mentioned, you're not spending half your match time trying to FIND other players, which is a good thing. Some of the smaller maps do get a bit congested, but I wasn't too bothered by it. Eighteen might be a better fit for the maps that we have, as there are only a few that seem to accommodate more players without overcrowding.
I do agree that the lobby needs to be reworked if we're playing with larger teams. The scroll only works for me from the lobby itself (not when I hit Tab in-game) and the bar across the top is pretty useless to see who is spawned (or not, and in which mech) beyond the first six team members. I don't mind only the top six players in the line-up necessarily, as it gives me a goal to shoot for during those long, agonizing 25 minute matches. :P
#20
Posted 27 April 2015 - 12:40 PM
I also might suggest that we have a requirement of 8 people minimum to start a match that has 18-24 players. It's bad enough watching the balance go to hell when you start a 12 player match with only 4 players... but when you start a 18-24 player match with only 4 players, yikes.
- HoneyBoomBoom likes this
To be serious for a moment this is just a joke
#21
Posted 28 April 2015 - 02:23 PM
#22
Posted 28 April 2015 - 03:44 PM
- eth0 likes this
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