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Reverse thrust option vs 180 turn option

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#1
Loris16148

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Reverse boost option or a 180 turn option in main menu. or make the option in form of an item or something. For example when you press Shift+back you boost backwards without having to turn around. 


Edited by Loris16148, 03 July 2015 - 08:43 AM.


#2
Elite_is_salty

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No one minds a joke. But a misleading title? Get that fuzzy bunny outa here.


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#3
Dawn_of_Ash

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I agree with Elite.

 

Please change the title.

 

As for your idea, it has been suggested before on the old forums and discussed a lot on it, but I think that the general discussion was a "no" due to multiple reasons which I cannot really remember right now.



#4
SatelliteJack

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I like the idea of it being an option. Introduce a backboost for those that want it, but keep the 180 for those that don't. Maybe don't make it an item, but just an option. I think it could work.


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#5
The_Silencer

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...just a side note...

 

According to a talk I had with the former devs in the past, boosting backwards wasn't implemented in the game by design (GDD).

 

Now I should say something relativistic like for example: Time will tell.. or something...


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#6
Kopra

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How to boost backwards:

 

Turn 180

Boost forward

Turn 180 again

 

Now you have effectively boosted backwards and are facing the enemy.


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#7
MomOw

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How to boost backwards:

 

Turn 180

Boost forward

Turn 180 again

 

Now you have effectively boosted backwards and are facing the enemy.

 

Kopra, you aren't objective. You are one of the only players who buy air 180 to spin even while flying :teehee:

 

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#8
Pelanthoris

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This would introduce a thing called "raider retreat". Would also burst weapons even better as you could retreat, shoot, retreat, shoot...

"The vectors... The vectors are all wrong!" -Bum


#9
Liederkranz

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As Dawn said, it was discussed a lot in the old forums. Even if it's a good idea, I think it'd break the gameplay. And the reason why it wasn't implemented in the first place was that the game was conceived with the idea of having to choose between fighting and running away. At least that's what I remember from the old discussions.

 

The fact that you have to 180, boost, then 180 again adds a little more strategy because you still DO have to choose between fighting and escaping, BUT if you want to fight while retreating, you can do it with the 108-boost-180 technique and the cost is that it's not as easy as pushing shift + back.


Edited by Liederkranz, 06 July 2015 - 05:48 AM.

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#10
The_Silencer

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...

 

Ouch!


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The difference between theory and practice is smaller in theory than it is in practice.


#11
doujutsu501

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Mechs don't have thrusters in the front, fool!


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#12
The_Silencer

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Mechs don't have thrusters in the front, fool!

 

Although I don't know who are you referring to with your post here... you should pay attention to various (IIRC..) of the lower mech parts due that I do see pieces in those which many may consider to be... thrusters..

 

Do that and tell me if not ... actually there are not operative in the game, right.. but IMHO, can be pretty interesting to check that in person as well..


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The difference between theory and practice is smaller in theory than it is in practice.


#13
JeffMagnum

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I remade an old video of mine and added a nice keyboard overlay just for you

 


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#14
The_Silencer

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Cool vid..

 

... Let' save the HC; why not? ;) Needs some of love, indeed...

 

Back on topic?


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The difference between theory and practice is smaller in theory than it is in practice.


#15
obliviondoll

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I'm an Armored Core player as well as a Hawken player. I also play a few other mech games, with varying levels of freedom for control.

 

I do like the mechanics of Hawken being built around this "fight or flight" type control scheme, but as someone who has a LOT of time in Armored Core across the many games in that series, I'd actually quite happily sacrifice a fairly large portion of my Mech's upgrade capacity if doing so could give me a reverse boost.

 

I think having an upgrade which allows this (much like the aerial boost/180 upgrades) would be great, because it would make it possible, but by making it expensive to equip, they could keep it as a somewhat niche ability rather than just handing it out to everyone. Another possibility would be to make the reverse boost less powerful and/or more taxing on your fuel reserves than a side boost. This could work in conjunction with a less expensive upgrade, or making it a free option (I'd still prefer it to be an upgrade). That way, you'd give up the ability to quickly respond to a threat from behind, but gain a LITTLE - only a little - more speed when backing up.

 

Great video from Jeff to show the current best-fit option, but good luck using your Assault Rifle like that without throwing dps out the window.

 

I can't honestly - as much as I'd like to see it myself - defend this as a "must have" feature, or claim that the game needs it. But I can say I'd like to see it, and if it's implemented, even as an expensive and difficult-to-run upgrade, I'll probably be using it.



#16
Panzermanathod

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As an Armored Core player myself I'm not actually wanting a reverse boost here.

 

Sometimes there are deliberate game design choices that I honestly don't mind. Like some platformers not allowing you to change direction in mid jump. Or properly implemented tank controls. Or, in this case, the lack of a reverse boost.

 

Yes, the lack of a reverse boost did take some getting used to but it wasn't much of an issue.


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#17
Hyginos

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Drink.


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#18
CraftyDus

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DoD had reverse sprint. Adversely effected nothing


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#19
HubbaBubba9849

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People were fighting about the Air compressor becoming a thing and we got that. I say make back-boost a 3-slot internal and give it a shot.



#20
StubbornPuppet

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I, too, think that backwards boosting would mess up the dynamic of encounters... and the gameplay in general.

 

The way it was intended, "boosting" is something you do to get into combat faster or for turning tail and running away from combat.  If we could boost backwards, even if it was an expensive internal, it would create a whole new meta of contstantly retreating your way to victory.


To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#21
obliviondoll

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I think "mess up" might be more than a little hyperbole. Change? Sure. But there are plenty of games which allow similar to what's being asked for here - a limited option to dash backwards in short bursts. Most of them work just fine, and I can't name a single game which has trouble specifically because of having such a function.

 

I'm all in favour of limiting it - and even doing so quite harshly to make it a niche type ability that most people won't use. And as I said before, as much as I'd enjoy having that as an option, I won't argue that the game "needs" to add it - the gameplay as it stands is great, and this is something which would just be a minor personal preference thing for me.



#22
Panzermanathod

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. But there are plenty of games which allow similar to what's being asked for here - a limited option to dash backwards in short bursts. Most of them work just fine, and I can't name a single game which has trouble specifically because of having such a function.

 

But as stated before, it is a *deliberate* choice by the original devs. It's not hyperbole to say it would mess up the game in some way. It's not whether or not Hawken would have issues with a backdash, it's that you're giving it something it wasn't meant to have initially. It is a mechanic the game was built around.

 

It's like adding 2D controls to Resident Evil 2 for the N64. Some people prefer it because they don't like tank controls, but it doesn't stop the fact that RE2 wasn't made for 2D controls and thus has some issues a player would have to work around if they decided to go that route.

 

Or like when Super Castlevania came out and some of the mechanics changes, namely multi-directional whipping and jump controls, ended up making the game much easier, unlike the difficult and more deliberate design of Castlevania 1, 3, and the second game... Haunted Castle.

 

Of course, adding backdash doesn't have the magnitude of 2D controls in RE2 but it's a similar concept.



#23
nepacaka

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G2-raider have a reverse thrust, you can try it.


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