Jump to content

Photo

Giving Mechs More Spring in Their Step. Or Hop in This Case

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1
ShadowWarg

ShadowWarg

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 27 posts

So, lets stay for a moment that the maps get reworked. I think it would be perfect if we, say..... remove the height cap for hovering?

 

While talking to another pilot in another thread It got me thinking about Hawken's movement, and I was wondering what others thought of these 3 ideas.

  • The first is removing the height cap while hovering. I know that the original purpose was to prevent players from going places that they weren't suppose to, but I always felt that was just a band-aid to poor map design. Removing the cap would give players a bit more flexibility when moving.
  • The second is dodging into side boost. Side boosting was actually a popular internal item request back in the day, but instead of it being an internal, add it as something built into every mech. Simply put it would allow players to boost sideways after the initial dodge and continue in that direction when held; uses fuel (after the initial dodge) much like forward boosting.
  • The Third is taking the air dodge and air 180 internal and adding it to every mech as well as giving mechs forward air boost. The air dodge internal was a big debate in the old thread were many claimed that it gives an overwhelming advantage to mech that have it and was to strong to be limited to just an internal (Most builds actually do have it). This is more for balancing reasons than anything.

The idea behind these suggestions is to help speed up the pacing slightly. (though I really don't think the game's pace needs to be any faster, I do like the idea of more boosting options and no more height cap)



#2
kaiserschmarrn_

kaiserschmarrn_

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 556 posts

lol



#3
HubbaBubba9849

HubbaBubba9849

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 131 posts

I'm all for removing the height cap.

 

As for the other two:

Spoiler


  • crockrocket and ATX22 like this

#4
americanbrit14

americanbrit14

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 440 posts

The only real problem with removing the height cap with hovering would be fall damage, though to compensate for this you could add a little HUD indicator similar to the overheat and lock-on effects, and it just tells you when you've gone high enough to start taking fall damage


VfuS0qE.png?1

contracted by 

 

??

INDUSTRY


#5
bacon_avenger

bacon_avenger

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 366 posts

I don't like it.

 

Then again, I don't like the air dodge either.

 

Remember the early debates on this kind of movement?  I believe the usual reply was something along the lines of 'This is Hawken, not Armored Core or Gundam'.  Hughes himself stated the hovering cap was becasue they didn't want people flying around all over the place, and IMO, since a certain point in the past (*cough* Ascension *cough*), Hawken has slowly been loosing it's way more and more.

 

I think I've made my preferences known, but for those who don't know, I don't believe the pacing of Hawken needs to be increased at all, if anything it needs to be toned down back to beta/alpha (yes yes, the stats show mechs moves at a similar speed to back then, but that's only a part of what makes up the 'pacing' of the game).


Edited by bacon_avenger, 28 January 2016 - 09:07 PM.

  • StubbornPuppet likes this

Test dummy for science, Follower of Wheatons Law, usually hanging around #hawkenscrim and #spawn, occasional poster of YouTube videos and streaming.  Can also be found on twitter

 

cs5t805.png?2


#6
ATX22

ATX22

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 507 posts

About the only way I'd be in favor of any increase in the amount of airborne movement in Hawken would be if it were accompanied by a huge accuracy penalty during and then for X amount of time after landing back on the ground.

 

Otherwise, no... please no.  Then the hackers creating new accounts as well as smurfs have all they need to zip around in Hawken from the get-go when they join servers with all the completely new players.



#7
dorobo

dorobo

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 990 posts

Surely there are plenty of room for improoving movement in hawken. Side boosting seems logical to be able to do that. Overall transitions between different moves could be more fluid than it is now.

 

tumblr_mtbry24wvF1r34zhyo8_500.gif



#8
HubbaBubba9849

HubbaBubba9849

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 131 posts

About the only way I'd be in favor of any increase in the amount of airborne movement in Hawken would be if it were accompanied by a huge accuracy penalty during and then for X amount of time after landing back on the ground.

That's right. There did used to be an accuracy penalty for hovering. I wouldn't be entirely against that being added back in to some degree.



#9
Sp3ctrr

Sp3ctrr

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 266 posts

I can dig the hover height increase, within reason of course. The accuracy penalty idea would be great in practice, games like blacklight: retribution have it and it does stop people from dancing around like magical fairies of death.

 

Adds some realism, hm?

 

a +1 from me.


Welcome_To_The_Enclave.png

Spoiler

#10
Hecatoncheires

Hecatoncheires

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 171 posts

Instead of removing the height cap, wouldn't it be more interesting to add a new map with reduced gravity/a magnetic field? I always see small floating rocks everywhere, so I've always wondered about the forces involved in the Hawken world. Not to mention, a map like this would give excuse for floating platforms as well as a change in vertical movement as you've mentioned.


What the Heca-


#11
ATX22

ATX22

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 507 posts

Instead of removing the height cap, wouldn't it be more interesting to add a new map with reduced gravity/a magnetic field? I always see small floating rocks everywhere, so I've always wondered about the forces involved in the Hawken world. Not to mention, a map like this would give excuse for floating platforms as well as a change in vertical movement as you've mentioned.

 

The floating rocks contain the make-believe lighter than air element that the mechs in Hawken utilize to be able to dash and float around and stand (ignoring how all this would reduce a pilot to tasty-paste all over the insides of the mech).  You could probably increase the height-cap via reduced gravity (same end result either way) in a new map, but that'll require whomever is designing the map to put more work into making sure there aren't any places where you can get to normally out-of-bounds areas.  Concerning the Aesthetics of said map, more work would have to be done to unreachable areas or the 3D skybox (or whatever the engine uses, I've only mapped for Quake based games, not worked with Unreal engine games) otherwise you might feel like you're in a closed-in silo.


Edited by ATX22, 29 January 2016 - 12:11 PM.


#12
ShadowWarg

ShadowWarg

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 27 posts

Surely there are plenty of room for improoving movement in hawken. Side boosting seems logical to be able to do that. Overall transitions between different moves could be more fluid than it is now.

 

tumblr_mtbry24wvF1r34zhyo8_500.gif

2 things.

 

First where is this gif from. I must know!

 

Second. I actually don't think Hawken's pacing needs an increase. Though I would like a more "Fluid" style of movement though. For instance maintaining momentum after boosting or something.

 

About the only way I'd be in favor of any increase in the amount of airborne movement in Hawken would be if it were accompanied by a huge accuracy penalty during and then for X amount of time after landing back on the ground.

Originally there was an accuracy penalty originally. Then they removed it. Adding it back, added with fall damage, seems like a reason trade off for removing the height cap.


  • dorobo likes this

#13
ATX22

ATX22

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 507 posts

2 things.

 

First where is this gif from. I must know!

 

Second. I actually don't think Hawken's pacing needs an increase. Though I would like a more "Fluid" style of movement though. For instance maintaining momentum after boosting or something.

 

Originally there was an accuracy penalty originally. Then they removed it. Adding it back, added with fall damage, seems like a reason trade off for removing the height cap.

 

And if reloaded could also add the impact kick-back while avoiding the stun lock issues of old...



#14
CraftyDus

CraftyDus

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1354 posts
While including air compressor and air 180 as default would be better, also removing fuel constraints and height caps would likely make Hawken more like COD and therefore irrefutabley better.
I'm for this huge improvement to everybody's play experience

EOC Raider, Bolt Pred, Rev Gl Gren, EOC Infil, All the Reapers, Father, Expert in Guitar Kung Fu, and Founder of TPG Hawken

I4U54qx.jpg     bQCgI0k.png   zd30MxR.png   vP7JiOe.png     uq0awfp.gif

lwY3QRd.jpg


#15
Silverfire

Silverfire

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1421 posts
What about an internal that improved your air capabilities (much like air dynamics tuning of old), lore base = mech infused with extra favorite, but at the cost of armor integrity (like weaker health or more susceptible to explosives and explosive feather damage).

So a more annoying internal for the zerk but easier to kill.

Edited by Silverfire, 30 January 2016 - 10:49 PM.

lNM7VnC.png

( ^ click for the EMP song ^ )

 

Come take a look at Hawken guides | Join me on #hawkenscrim IRC

 

 


#16
ATX22

ATX22

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 507 posts

Even something as simple as removing the height cap would require a near complete rework of all the maps in Hawken, creativity walls and all, to be done right.  Most of the maps were created back when you could mainly hover a bit and make yourself a big slow moving target in the air.  

 

Also don't forget that all this would do more to hurt the new player experience while seasoned players get to fight against completely new players, smurf or main account.  New player retention is already bad enough, maybe if Hawken ever gets to the point of being popular, then maybe they could try making air-combat more prevalent in Hawken without the risk of running more of the few that still try it off.  Just a thought.


Edited by ATX22, 30 January 2016 - 11:13 PM.


#17
HugeGuts

HugeGuts

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 101 posts
Also don't forget that all this would do more to hurt the new player experience while seasoned players get to fight against completely new players, smurf or main account.

 

I wouldn't add anymore movement options to Hawken for this reason. It would only widen the already too-large gap between new players and veterans.

 

 

First where is this gif from. I must know!

 

It is the intro to the second Patlabor movie.


  • dorobo likes this

#18
StubbornPuppet

StubbornPuppet

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1508 posts

I'm in favor of 'why' the jump height was capped... just not a fan of how it was done.  The fact that they (Adhesive) went in and used a dorky bandaid fix to solve the problem of players escaping the maps and turning the game into a flying simulator, is indicative of their entirely lazy approach to fixing everything.

 

The problem I think people have with the jump height cap is that it feels like your mech is bumping into an invisible ceiling.  That's stupid.  They should have actually gone in and tuned each mech so that it was only able to jump and boost up to a reasonable height - naturally.  It wouldn't feel weird that way and the core of the intended gameplay would remain intact.


To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#19
DallasCreeper

DallasCreeper

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1135 posts

I'm in favor of 'why' the jump height was capped... just not a fan of how it was done.  The fact that they (Adhesive) went in and used a dorky bandaid fix to solve the problem of players escaping the maps and turning the game into a flying simulator, is indicative of their entirely lazy approach to fixing everything.

 

The problem I think people have with the jump height cap is that it feels like your mech is bumping into an invisible ceiling.  That's stupid.  They should have actually gone in and tuned each mech so that it was only able to jump and boost up to a reasonable height - naturally.  It wouldn't feel weird that way and the core of the intended gameplay would remain intact.

Just as speculation: are you thinking in terms of different jump heights for individual mechs, or just weight-class(this might already be in-game, i just haven't tested it)?


 

Spoiler

2XhpJes.png

Ridding the world of evil, one Berzerker at a time.


#20
ATX22

ATX22

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 507 posts

What incentive does Reloaded have though for enhancing the movement system any more in favor of primarily the established players?  New players already have a hard enough time tracking the movements of higher MMR players and smurfs who end up coexisting in the same servers, why add to this problem?  Even with signs of life coming from the dev team, the player base is still shrinking.  New content will help tremendously (if it's good and not typical P2W nonsense Reloaded is known for), but to be lasting, IMHO, the game itself still has to be both entertaining and approachable for new players as well as teh hardcore been here since the beginning "Hawken vets" that can obliterate an entire team in their sleep.  Even the match making system already works against this by lumping as many new players together in the same server and then peppering them with a few high-MMR players (or a squad) vs, the old-school approach of finding a server that's either more in line with your level of skill or diverse enough that you may struggle, but still learn.

 

The way things are currently set up in Hawken, I personally wouldn't want to add or change anything that would further add to the frustration level of new players.. including any enhancements to the air movement in Hawken.


Edited by ATX22, 10 February 2016 - 10:12 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users