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Is this what I'm relegated to now?

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#1
harmless_kittens

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NM.  Not worth it.


Edited by harmless_kittens, 15 March 2016 - 10:03 PM.


#2
-Tj-

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Hey HK, sorry you had a bad time tonight.

 

Honestly, a lot of the smurfs/vets/high-ranking-players do frequent the forums, and they do see this kind of thing, but it's just one of those things that's become an unfortunate reality of the game at this moment in time. The low population and high percentage of experienced vets in that low population just sorta leads to the inevitability of low MMR players becoming fodder for the high MMR players. It becomes a challenge to balance the fun of long-time players getting the most out of the game and the fun of players who are just experiencing the game fresh and new.

 

Part of the issue is that if the MMR-observant players play against low MMR players and go easy on them, their MMR tends to drop. That can also result in the spawning of a smurf account, played by the same player who wants to keep their main account MMR high, but still wants to play, albiet differently (handicapping themselves, playing drunk/high/different styles, etc...), though those smurfs will still appear to be experienced players likely no matter how much they try to mask themselves. Some habits just don't die after you've learned the ways of Hawken. Another part of the issue is the matter of fun: who's fun do you impede to get the most playership? Vets will likely keep playing for a while, while new players have statistically been shown to leave the game pretty early-on (though that may likely be due to players encountering veterans, among other reasons like 'this isn't quite the mech game I thought it was supposed to be,' 'I love mechs, but I can't stand PvP,' and the like...), so how and where do you balance the new player/veteran community? What about the players in between?

 

Honestly, my MMR isn't super high, though I'm definitely above the level you've noted. I'm honestly not sure where my MMR actually stands due to playing against new and lower-MMR players frequently, and not enough against the high MMR guys I should be playing against. It's not that I don't want to, it's just that with my schedule and time zone, I'm almost forced to. That said, when I do encounter players who are obviously low level, or players who state that they're new, I try to go easy on them. There is an exception to this self-imposed rule, however: if another high MMR player joins, the matchmaker will almost certainly place the other high MMR player on the opposite team, in which case matchmaker is expecting me to perform at around the same level as the other guy to keep the score even. That usually means I have to be mean to the low rank guys on the opposing team, or the score will be uneven (sometimes massively uneven) and those on my team might possibly complain about not having fun due to the uneven score, or blame me for not carrying my weight. It's a conundrum for sure.

 

Anywho, even I have bad days here and there, but this is far from limited to Hawken. ANY PvP-focused game will be like this. There will always be the top dogs, and there will always be players who just aren't on the same level. When you place real people against real people, natural selection will always play its hand. You either take the hits, try to improve, and try your best to have fun, or you die a lot without learning much at all and blow a blood vessel in your head or move to another game. Obviously, we don't want players to leave Hawken (pop's low enough as it is), but I've had to do this on one occasion before on account that I was just getting too rage-tastic to actually have fun in a game. In fact, I've seen worse matchmaking in Titanfall... much, much worse. Hawken's matchmaking is decent by comparison, though I'm actually not sure if Titanfall's matchmaking has been improved since I played it near its introduction. It was horrible back then, maybe they've improved it now. Anyways, try to have fun, endure the vets you encounter from time to time. If you're having a bad time, take a breather, or even a break from the game. The devs are supposedly working on stuff, and hopefully it's new content or a new update that will refresh the game and entice a whole slew of new players back.

 

:smile:


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#3
kaiserschmarrn_

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Sorry babe, but this point has been argued to death on the forums already.

 

We all know that the playerbase is too small for the matchmaker to work properly, but we have absolutely no control over this, so please don't blame it on anybody in the community.

 

I can relate to your frustration, but all that we can really do right now is understand that Reloaded would not have bought the game if they didn't have a plan.


Edited by kaiserschmarrn_, 15 March 2016 - 10:04 PM.

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#4
DallasCreeper

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-snip-

 

 

-snip-

 

 

-snip-

Is this one of the threads where people complain about getting put into matches that they don't stand a chance in; except it's written by a fairly respected member of the community and not some 1st-post 5-shot whiner?


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#5
harmless_kittens

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Sorry guys.  I had a moment of weakness last night, and decided to rant.  Not a good idea, and it's not in my nature to do that.  But there is little point in complaining, especially to you guys, who are generally very sympathetic to our plight and share our frustration.

 

In short, we are in a situation now where THE LACK OF PLAYERS CAUSES A LACK OF PLAYERS.  This is because new players, unless they are just inherently awesome, are matched with the superstars who have been here for years, get frustrated, and then quit.  I'm not there yet, but I suspect many others have tried it, got creamed, and then decide its not for them.  I think this is a problem, but apparently this is not a new complaint/problem at all.

 

I apologize again if it sounded like I was taking it out on the players, when its not really their fault.


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#6
PoopSlinger

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Unfortunately it might be best to let the game be ded for a while until an update hits and more people come back Harmless.  This game can be really really good so it would maybe be better to let it rest until more people in your level come back.  This would prevent you from associating negative feelings with such a fun game.


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khn3gAi.jpg?1CitkI9t.jpgGkp2fB7.jpg

Come on Crafty, you have been officially called out on your lies. Your online reputation is at stake here, this is just like an old school street race running for pink slips. Its run what you brung and hope its enough. Put up or shut the fuzzy bunny up.


#7
dorobo

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Finished making hawken vids and playing for couple of weeks now. Until there's a serious change just not going back. I can easilly frustrate my self with "Devill daggers" in couple of minutes and be done with it and just go do something usefull and interesting instead.


Edited by dorobo, 16 March 2016 - 05:30 AM.


#8
DallasCreeper

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Unfortunately it might be best to let the game be ded for a while until an update hits and more people come back Harmless.  This game can be really really good so it would maybe be better to let it rest until more people in your level come back.  This would prevent you from associating negative feelings with such a fun game.

I basically only play for events like War Wednesday and Sunday Sunday DM so I can interact with the people who are wrecking me. 


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#9
Amidatelion

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The best thing Reloaded could do for new players is institute opt-in <lvl 20 servers and ditch matchmaking entirely until they have a body of more than 2000 players.


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#10
TheButtSatisfier

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The best thing Reloaded could do for new players is institute opt-in <lvl 20 servers and ditch matchmaking entirely until they have a body of more than 2000 players.

 

I agree that opt-in servers for players below a certain level would improve the current situation, but how does eliminating matchmaker help them once they pass that level threshold? Are you saying that you want to remove MMR restrictions on all level 20+ (or whatever) servers but still keep the part of matchmaker that balances teams before the game starts? Or are you suggesting that we get rid of that functionality too and let teams be truly random?

 

This is assuming that "matchmaker" is the same entity / program / function that both (1) shoves players into a MMR-appropriate server where available and (2) tries to sort players into somewhat even teams before the game starts.


8) Tech in the streets, Brawler in the sheets (8


#11
Amidatelion

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I agree that opt-in servers for players below a certain level would improve the current situation, but how does eliminating matchmaker help them once they pass that level threshold? Are you saying that you want to remove MMR restrictions on all level 20+ (or whatever) servers but still keep the part of matchmaker that balances teams before the game starts? Or are you suggesting that we get rid of that functionality too and let teams be truly random?

 

This is assuming that "matchmaker" is the same entity / program / function that both (1) shoves players into a MMR-appropriate server where available and (2) tries to sort players into somewhat even teams before the game starts.

 

If they want to keep the matchmaker for teambalance, sure, but I figure just junking the system entirely is easier and removes the expectation that they are going to play "people of their level."

 

Although they may bring that from other games. Hmm.



#12
harmless_kittens

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In a moment of irony, my son just sent me an email here at work.  He is Kaotic_Beaver, and a much better player than I am.  He just told me that even HIS matches are too hard now and he doesn't want to play on that account anymore :(  Wow I wish there were more people playing this game ...



#13
StubbornPuppet

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In a moment of irony, my son just sent me an email here at work.  He is Kaotic_Beaver, and a much better player than I am.  He just told me that even HIS matches are too hard now and he doesn't want to play on that account anymore :(  Wow I wish there were more people playing this game ...

 

that's actually a good sign for him if he can stick with it.  It means that his MMR has increased enough to introduce him to matches with the big-league players.  He will get devastated for a long time now... but, if he sticks with it, come out on the other side as one of these heavy hitters.


To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#14
Amidatelion

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As of right now the son is an a match with a pair of pubstars, and someone who is probably the smurf of a 2500 player who should know better.

 

Qzu5w9y.png

 

Not much to be done about the pubstars on account of matchmaking, but get out of the fuzzy bunnyng smurf.

 

You know who you are.


Edited by Amidatelion, 16 March 2016 - 12:23 PM.

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#15
harmless_kittens

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As of right now the son is an a match with a pair of pubstars, and someone who is probably the smurf of a 2500 player who should know better.

 

Qzu5w9y.png

 

Not much to be done about the pubstars on account of matchmaking, but get out of the fuzzy bunnyng smurf.

 

You know who you are.

Sorry, but I don't know what this means.  What are "pubstars"?



#16
Amidatelion

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Sorry, but I don't know what this means.  What are "pubstars"?

 

Someone who does well in public matches but would fail in a competitive environment.

 

That's as neutral as I can manage, but just imagine my voice dripping with vitriol and disparagement. 


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#17
TheButtSatisfier

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Sorry, but I don't know what this means.  What are "pubstars"?

 

It's a gaming colloquialism to describe a player who generally performs well in public matches (or "pubs" for shorthand) but either (1) doesn't play competitively or (2) when they do play competitively, they don't do as well as when they play in pubs.

 

Though nobody would mistake it for an academic-quality source, https://www.urbandictionary.com/ will usually have a definition for other gaming-related colloquialisms that you aren't familiar with. Of course, as you just saw, asking here will probably work too.


Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 16 March 2016 - 12:48 PM.

8) Tech in the streets, Brawler in the sheets (8


#18
DM30

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Sorry, but I don't know what this means.  What are "pubstars"?

*edit* Already answered better by others


Edited by DM30, 16 March 2016 - 12:46 PM.

Hawken gameplay

 

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#19
SS396

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Hey Harmless "Welcome to Hawken" where the overqualified rule the game, and the regular players are simply the feeders.

I recommend you go buy Stardew Valley for you and your kid and take a break until (or should I say a BIG IF) Reloaded gets their act together. Its single player for now, and multiplayer is on the horizon with no ETA but still its great for at least 100 hours of quality entertainment, although you might have issues with it because there are no restrictions and anyone can marry whatever sex they choose. But either way for one person to create the entire game (music, art, story and programming), and it only costing 15 bucks is one of the greatest miracles in gaming to happen in the recent years.

http://store.steampo....com/app/413150


As far as Reloaded goes, I've given up. I think they have squandered their chances and wasted too much time, and their window of opportunity has long since past. It doesn't take this long to produce some sort of update unless they are moving it to an entirely new engine or completely rebuilding it from scratch. And I seriously doubt they are going for that route for a 3 year old F2P game. It was fun back when it was in closed beta before ADH fuzzy bunnyed it up with ascension. Those were the best times for Hawken, plenty of players and fun games for everyone, now its only fun for the few bored pubstompers picking on everyone weaker than them.

[DELETED]

 

fuzzy bunny you CZeroFive 


#20
americanbrit14

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As of right now the son is an a match with a pair of pubstars, and someone who is probably the smurf of a 2500 player who should know better.

 

Qzu5w9y.png

 

Not much to be done about the pubstars on account of matchmaking, but get out of the fuzzy bunnyng smurf.

 

You know who you are.

I apologize for not being competitive you cheeky fuzzy bunny waffle. 

poeB7.jpg


VfuS0qE.png?1

contracted by 

 

??

INDUSTRY


#21
americanbrit14

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oh wow fuzzy bunny is censored, i don't think its even a bad word... hmm is scrublord censored too? nope


Edited by Americanbrit14 the moderately bad., 16 March 2016 - 01:12 PM.

VfuS0qE.png?1

contracted by 

 

??

INDUSTRY


#22
Amidatelion

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Close enough.

 

a4VJbiO.png

 

 

oh wow fuzzy bunny is censored, i don't think its even a bad word... hmm is scrublord censored too? nope

 

Get gud, forum nub.


Edited by Amidatelion, 16 March 2016 - 01:16 PM.

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#23
Taurist

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I consider myself a "new" player and I simply have to accept that I'm going to get stomped for a while.  Like, a long while.  Same thing happened when I started playing chess in a competitive chess club in NYC... got my a** handed to me for two years running before I started holding my own.  
Is the playerbase really that low?  I love this game and play fairly often.  I don't often run into "intolerable" situations... Sometimes I get owned, sometimes not. 
MM is surely not the greatest, but it's not *that* bad is it?  I am pretty nooby when it comes to FPS's but damn, I'm enjoying Hawken.  

Is a MM "fix" really necessary?  I mean, it's a PvP game.  Take a straw, open up the paper wrapper, and suck it the f*** up!!!

 

That's just me, though.  I guess.



#24
DallasCreeper

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Someone who does well in public matches but would fail in a competitive environment.

 

That's as neutral as I can manage, but just imagine my voice dripping with vitriol and disparagement. 

Like me? Then again, the only reason I'm not good at comp is I don't play comp. Well, I did sub for a scrim between TDM and THC. Once. 


 

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#25
crockrocket

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As of right now the son is an a match with a pair of pubstars, and someone who is probably the smurf of a 2500 player who should know better.

Qzu5w9y.png


Not much to be done about the pubstars on account of matchmaking, but get out of the fuzzy bunnyng smurf.

You know who you are.

What was the average mmr on that match? I'm guessing 1900 since I recognize maybe half the names

                                                                    JgQjgkx.png

 

Salvage: An Idea to Stop Leavers

Player Retention & Howken

 

[14:31] <Crafty> I know that in my balls
[14:32] <Crafty> hawken is unlike anything Ive played

 

 


#26
crockrocket

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Hey Harmless "Welcome to Hawken" where the overqualified rule the game, and the regular players are simply the feeders.

I recommend you go buy Stardew Valley for you and your kid and take a break until (or should I say a BIG IF) Reloaded gets their act together. Its single player for now, and multiplayer is on the horizon with no ETA but still its great for at least 100 hours of quality entertainment, although you might have issues with it because there are no restrictions and anyone can marry whatever sex they choose. But either way for one person to create the entire game (music, art, story and programming), and it only costing 15 bucks is one of the greatest miracles in gaming to happen in the recent years.

http://store.steampo....com/app/413150


As far as Reloaded goes, I've given up. I think they have squandered their chances and wasted too much time, and their window of opportunity has long since past. It doesn't take this long to produce some sort of update unless they are moving it to an entirely new engine or completely rebuilding it from scratch. And I seriously doubt they are going for that route for a 3 year old F2P game. It was fun back when it was in closed beta before ADH fuzzy bunnyed it up with ascension. Those were the best times for Hawken, plenty of players and fun games for everyone, now its only fun for the few bored pubstompers picking on everyone weaker than them.


Stardew Valley is a fantastic game. I recommend picking it up and still playing Hawken.
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Salvage: An Idea to Stop Leavers

Player Retention & Howken

 

[14:31] <Crafty> I know that in my balls
[14:32] <Crafty> hawken is unlike anything Ive played

 

 


#27
harmless_kittens

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I looked at Stardew Valley, but practically every screen shot is "farming", which I don't like.  I've heard people say that you don't HAVE to do farming if you don't want to.  Is this true? 



#28
crockrocket

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I looked at Stardew Valley, but practically every screen shot is "farming", which I don't like.  I've heard people say that you don't HAVE to do farming if you don't want to.  Is this true? 

 

Eh farming is pretty necessary. You technically don't have to but if that's not your thing you probably shouldn't get it.


                                                                    JgQjgkx.png

 

Salvage: An Idea to Stop Leavers

Player Retention & Howken

 

[14:31] <Crafty> I know that in my balls
[14:32] <Crafty> hawken is unlike anything Ive played

 

 


#29
SS396

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I looked at Stardew Valley, but practically every screen shot is "farming", which I don't like.  I've heard people say that you don't HAVE to do farming if you don't want to.  Is this true? 

 

How could anyone dislike farming.  Don't you like vegetables?  

 

Well in the first season (28 game days) you'll pretty much be regulated to farming for income, but once you raise up enough money to buy a coop or barn you can start making money by raising and tending to animals.  You can fish, or forage or fight and mine for ores.

 

I find it relaxing to just do everything, its never the same thing 2 days (in game) in a row.

 

Right now I gotta serious wine and brewery setup that really rakes in the money every 6 days.  I'm going for the 10 million dollar achievement.  

 

Next playthrough I'm going to go the Joja corporate route.


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[DELETED]

 

fuzzy bunny you CZeroFive 


#30
DemitronPrime

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for the record brit...

 

Competitive would mean you tried to play against people in your own skill level...

 

that is something you DONT do... i mean if i had a MC for every time i have seen or heard you you, kaiser and a few other " VETS" stomping pub servers because you " cant find a game " or what ever stupid ass excuses you can think of I would have all the cosmetics in the game...

 

simple fact is... you enjoy stomping because it makes you feel special, please dont treat this community like we are to dumb to know that... we are not...

 

and as to your harmless... Dont let it get you down man, remember, hawken is a game and the second you take it too serious you will end up making a joke of yourself by becoming one of those overly serious "pros" that make smurf accounts just to avoid losing mmr in pub servers because they actually know deep down they are not as good as they think they are...

 

games are made to be played for fun man.... so play and enjoy, and dont sweat it all too much


Edited by DemitronPrime, 19 March 2016 - 06:47 PM.

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#31
JackVandal

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In a moment of irony, my son just sent me an email here at work.  He is Kaotic_Beaver, and a much better player than I am.  He just told me that even HIS matches are too hard now and he doesn't want to play on that account anymore :(  Wow I wish there were more people playing this game ...

I have actually played a match once with your son due to matchmaker shenanigans, I can attest to what the others have said in that he will improve if he sticks it out, having been one such player myself a year ago, the great silence pubs were brutal as i was usually way over my head, but even so this game is great and im glad iv stuck with it long enough to be "competent". All i can say is to do your best to improve. Its worth it. 


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