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#1
Silverfire

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I know this is discussion of forum moderation, but the rules say "excessive discussion of the rules" so I hope this thread does not become excessive.  Keep it on the down-low. I do not wish to stir up any negative feelings, but wish for honest, straightforward, non-excessive thoughts of forum rules.

 

Just to get it out of the way:

 

I'm just curious if there is a set standard, or a procedure, when it comes to moderation of these forums.  There does not seem to be in my observation. When it comes to certain rule infractions, consequences have not been consistent in various talks with community members.  Warning points and temp-ban durations vary moderator to moderator, bringing ambiguity, uncertainty to how we are to be policed. For example, "x" forum user posts "y" on "z" thread.  "y" is against forum rules for "abc" reasons.  "x" forum user is issued 5 warning points and a 1 day temp-ban by one moderator.  Somewhere else on the forums, "e" forum user is issued 10 warning points and no temp ban for posting the exact same "y" content, which was against forum rules for the same "abc" reasons with the same degree of rule-breaking that "x" forum user posted. "e" forum user was actioned by a different moderator.

 

 

To be clear, forum moderation is a thing that is necessary.  It's a good thing that it's there.  It should be.  However, it is to my opinion that clear and visible procedures and standards be available to both the average community member and the moderating team to be accountable.  It's this ambiguity that makes forum regulars hesitant to post sometimes.  This does not bode well for active forum participation in the future.  

 

Does a forum regular withhold a well-known community joke/meme in appropriate context simply because he or she fears warning points and a ban from a moderator who does not comprehend the joke?  At what point do we, as forum users, need to draw the line in our actions in order to prevent being actioned and still maintain our "independence" in a sense.  Where do we have to draw the line? And where do the moderators draw their lines and say, "this is how moderation is breaking down.  This type of post will draw X number of warning points and Y number of forum suspension days"  or "this type of post will give you (insert range here) warning points and at Z number of warning points you will be suspended.  (insert number here) of temporary suspensions will be followed by a permanent suspension."

 

 

I'd like to believe that we desire clarity.  I'm not asking for a changing of the rules, I'm not asking for a clean slate, I'm not asking for amnesty or favored treatment.  Just like many other things in Hawken that are unclear to us, this community desires clarity from the developers of a very loved game.  I honestly hope the developers can bring clarity to the community in a timely fashion.  If they can't bring clarity to us regarding in-game stuff, then I'm very disappointed but it's likely due to NDA from the publisher or whatever.  But what they can bring clarity to, what they can put to rest, what they can settle in the community, is the rules.  Something concrete.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now in order to avoid this thread being classified as excessive discussion of the rules, here's other Hawken related things in order to decrease the overall percentage of rule-related words.

 

I recently read somewhere on the forums that someone believed that there was a current dearth of mid-tier players.  This would result in a population curve that was somewhat like a double bell curve: lots of lowbies, lots of high tier cabal people, few mid tiers.  This was one of the primary causes of imbalance in matches, was his belief.

 

What do I define as each "tier" when it comes to low, mid, high? To me, lowbies consist of 1500-1600 and below.  Mid tiers consist of 1600 to 1800-1900ish.  Anything 2000 MMR and above could probably be considered high tier considering the current population size.   Shadeness was kind enough to lend me a peek at the MMR distribution in the game that he gleaned from his now defunct leaderboards.  

 

Spoiler

 

So that was some curious data.  Numbers are magic. This, unfortunately is only of PC Hawken, and something like 26,617 unique accounts logged playing is what I'm assuming from Shade's data during a one month period.  Anyone on console that's a "good PC player and/or can adequately measure MMR", how would you judge the current MMR distribution/MMR breakdowns across respective consoles?  Console Hawken has been out for at least a month now, plenty of time for people to settle in and get into the game (or leave it). Similar to PC Hawken?  How would you judge the playerbase size as well?

 

 

I haven't played console, but given that Hawken hasn't changed a whole lot from what I can tell, I would imagine that player retention is similar to what PC Hawken is and has been at for years: decent for the first few days, and then a sharp drop off.  Which brings me to the long-repeated question of "what can be done about player retention" and then the vets go "oh thats ez, new tutorial, more information to the players to help em out duh its ezzzzzzzzzzzzz"

 

to which I would say, I'm not so sure.  New stuff helps.  New content helps.  It's nice. Better servers would be great. Better performance optimizations would be fantastic.  All these things add up, but I don't think it'll solve player retention.  Part of me says that it's partly due to a higher skill ceiling and people just want a mechanically easy game to "git srs n supa gud"  *cough OW cough* and Hawken isn't exactly mechanically easy.  Gameplay wise, stylistically, Hawken is somewhat unique, but partly doomed because it's somewhat unique and a little off the well-worn path of "normal" popular FPSes.  And another part just might be the difficulty of "making it" on the video game market where games primarily come from AAA developers.  RLD is not a AAA developer.

 

 

So what are we left with? That's a really good question.  Also, 27,000 players is a lame number.

 

 

 

Also this imgur gallery is very important to everyone right now: http://imgur.com/gallery/QUN1X

 

 

 

 

Also when is Pusher and Siege Tank coming out, thanks devs


Edited by Silverfire, 02 February 2017 - 12:29 AM.

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#2
Elite_is_salty

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Does a forum regular withhold a well-known community joke/meme in appropriate context simply because he or she fears warning points and a ban from a moderator who does not comprehend the joke?

 

Yes he/she does. Every single time. Sad ain't it?


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#3
dorobo

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Triple the number of mechs.. no need for a perfect balance but make em different and interesting to play. Add moba mode :yucky:

No need to dumb down controls but just perfect them to the point where when a new player starts getting better understanding it feels very good for him to control a mech. IMMERSION, scale. If it looks like a part time hello kitty f2p game people will respond to it like that. But these things will never happen so why even bother.

 

edit: basically more content would help alot


Edited by dorobo, 05 August 2016 - 01:34 AM.


#4
LaurenEmily

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Needs more mechs somehow the 30 we have doesnt feel enough

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#5
crockrocket

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Regarding the first part, I think we would all like to see a clear line drawn for us. Because right now things seem pretty damn arbitrary.


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#6
nepacaka

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basically more content would help alot

 

i'm not sure if it help. when new player came in game, they have a lot of choice to buy and see many mech. but players leave from game after 2-3 hours of play (one day maximum).
my own opinion, game play is not clear. old players use game mechanics tricks and exploites, which makes they faster than ordinary player. stupid shooting mechanism and weapon spread (i'm still not sure how it working because ping) when bullets hit target only if you crosshair look at enemy hitbox. weapon shake which not working while dodge or flying, but working while u walk and shoot anywhere but not in crosshair, etc. many things which make hawken not understandable for player from first time.
 

game is too hard. i can't explain this correct, but many things is unplayable before you understand real mechanism how these things working. even if devs added 500 new mech, it is not help, because players play 2-3 fight on TV and leave.

in my opinion, hawken should be more based on thinking, positioning, timing, turncap. but not on reflexes. like it was before, when everyone not jumping like stupid bunny just because weapon delay is shorter when you walking, or flying with AC. stupid maps like bunker, if enemy have better aim %, you probably can't beat him, just because he have faster reaction, at the same time, you have a chance on origin, just if use some corner and alpha-strikes, and tying beat him with mind, not by slow reflexes. 

i.e. too much things need to fix/remade, to make hawken playeable for average player. it is impossible now. much more easy make a "Hawken 2", than fix all cerrunt things. i know many people think than this things is working normal (like bunny hopping, and decreased weapon delay in air, broken mechs air speed, and other). in my opinion -not. these things is broken and illogical. i'm ordinary player, and i can use those things when i play, but i don't love use it. i don't love use bunny hopping on brawler (you know, shift+space+flak, move to enemy, activate deflector, repeat till it die), but it is hard to do every time. i tired from gameplay like this. 
i love use some standart r-dodge, like i did it before, but now it is mostly useless, why i should use this? if i can just jump, activate deflector, shoot faster due shorter weapon delay, and don't have crosshair shaking while air. it is stupid part of gameplay which still exist.

people leave cuz they gameplay is bad (i mean, gameplay is good, but 99% not understandable, nobody except small % of players can't understand how it working. and as a result -  leave)

nobody tell you:
- why your weapon delay in air shorter than ground
- why your air-speed higher than normal if you jump after boost
- why your weapon not shake while jump or dodge
- why your start moving slower if immidiately change walking direction
- why after speed you walking acceleration close to 100% if you continue moving at the same direction
- why you bullets not hit target if you crosshair not look at hitbox
- why these bullets tracers not hit enemy but you see that you 100% shoot in him
- why...
too many "why" which players should know, or should read tonnes of manuals or hours of play, to know this. and even if he know it, he can't use it, if not have reaction higher than normal. and this is not changes even if reloaded added in game 30 new mechs + CTF + 15 new maps. imo.
 


Edited by nepacaka, 05 August 2016 - 02:34 AM.

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Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#7
MomOw

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nobody tell you:
- why your weapon delay in air shorter than ground
- why your air-speed higher than normal if you jump after boost
- why your weapon not shake while jump or dodge
- why your start moving slower if immidiately change walking direction
- why after speed you walking acceleration close to 100% if you continue moving at the same direction

- why you bullets not hit target if you crosshair not look at hitbox
- why these bullets tracers not hit enemy but you see that you 100% shoot in him
- why...
too many "why" which players should know, or should read tonnes of manuals or hours of play, to know this. and even if he know it, he can't use it, if not have reaction higher than normal. and this is not changes even if reloaded added in game 30 new mechs + CTF + 15 new maps. imo.
 

 

 

This. I don't know if it's working as intended but it's the actual movement "meta", should be part of the tutorial.


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#8
nepacaka

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I don't know if it's working as intended but it's the actual movement "meta"

 

actually, weapon delay is a bug, which was fixed, but than bugged again, because some players start whining than they can't shoot without bug. because when devs fix this bug, bunny-hop + jump stop working, and you up weapon with the same speed like player who use bosst+dodge, for example. for me, it is still a bug, and many people even don't know that you weapon ready faster when you use jump. and you can't only use boost (as it should be like jumping alternative), if you wanna shoot faster.

But it doesn't matter, i just say that players not know about it. or even if know not use because it is hard. 

At least, devs can decrease weapon delay after boost (ez solution). Which Should be done long times ago! but still not...

 

and the one thing which i still don't understand, like an ADH, Reloaded also don't know way in which put hawken.
- hawken is still not a "competitive" game, because it is too much p2w, and first player not equal second player. (like in quake for example, where every players equal. difference only in personal skill). players gain HC even if do nothing instead gain 0 (zero). players not learn (why you need to learn if you can bring EU in siege and earn 500-700 points? or play in TDM where game pay you just fo "time in match"? it is stupid). Players don't want to learn - it is bad.

- but hawken also not a fun game with some f2p/p2w in which you just can play, because it is too hard and have many thing which make a Huge gap between ordinary and skilled players who use some tricks.

this game not hardcore for hardcore players, and this game still hard for ordinary players. which nishe hawken have? for whom this game exist?
it is not simulator for mech fans, it is not shooter for CoD fans. it is no competitive, it is not fun game. which sort of people hawken should ??????? in game?


Edited by nepacaka, 05 August 2016 - 04:18 AM.

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Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#9
DallasCreeper

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nobody tell you:

- why your weapon delay in air shorter than ground
- why your air-speed higher than normal if you jump after boost
- why your weapon not shake while jump or dodge
- why your start moving slower if immidiately change walking direction
- why after speed you walking acceleration close to 100% if you continue moving at the same direction
- why you bullets not hit target if you crosshair not look at hitbox
- why these bullets tracers not hit enemy but you see that you 100% shoot in him
- why...

-mechanics

-momentum: A mech moving quickly on the ground is going to retain some of that speed when it jumps up. Having a very fast-moving mech like the Scout lose all its speed once they press spacebar is very silly.

-Why would they?

-If you go into explore maps and enter "third person(TAB)" you'll see that when a mech changes direction, the legs turn around, hence you slow down

-If I'm understanding this correctly; mechs do take time to slow down. Of course,it's not Mech Warrior stuff, but it's noticeable

-The thing I'm getting her is,"You don't hit the enemy if you're not looking at their hitbox"

-Tracers aren't tied directly to the rounds fired (hitscan only) Take the T-32 Bolt as an example; when you fire, there is a burst of tracers,  but you've usually hit the enemy before the tracers do. It's the way hitscan weapons work in every game with hitscan weapons. The tracers are for effect, they aren't the bullet itself. 


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#10
Hyginos

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It appears to me that moderation is largely done in response to reports. It is a logical way to conduct if you assume that users report uniformly and based on a similar reading of the rules, but in practice it means that those who are most eager to be offended have inordinate power over those who are more reserved with the report button.

 

As for movement mechanics, nepacaka, I'm not sure any of those things really need a why so much as new players need some time to get used to them.

 

this game not hardcore for hardcore players, and this game still hard for ordinary players. which nishe hawken have? for whom this game exist?

it is not simulator for mech fans, it is not shooter for CoD fans. it is no competitive, it is not fun game. which sort of people hawken should ??????? in game?

 

The idea that not being CoD or Mechwarrior is a bad thing isn't particularly sound IMO. It surmises that people who play CoD or MW will only play games that are extremely similar to those. There is something to be said for variety. 

 

EDIT: Ever heard that saying that in an Irish bar your best mate will call you a fuzzy bunny but if you get called 'friend' you had best be ready for a fight? I don't think the mod team has a good handle on which is which yet.


Edited by Hyginos, 05 August 2016 - 04:36 AM.

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#11
CraftyDus

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EDIT: Ever heard that saying that in an Irish bar your best mate will call you a fuzzy bunny but if you get called 'friend' you had best be ready for a fight? I don't think the mod team has a good handle on which is which yet.

 

 

Fuzzy bunny, you ain't kiddin.

 

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#12
nepacaka

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DallasCreeper, Hyginos, I can tell you, that sometimes I say some small info about hawken in comments (in Russian hawken social net) and some people who even play long time in hawken don't know this moments and say something like "really?". I mean, even players who play longer than me (by hrs), just don't know it (I'm 90% sure that even I don't know all small moments in game mechanics). Many people don't understand how working radar, or how working some "strange" internals. People don't know weapons stats (but it is very important, in my opinion), they don't see which weapon have better damage, dps, etc.
I just say that many of this thing is not clear. And I not added all in list, because it will be to long to type.

Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#13
nepacaka

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To be honest, in 2012 hawken many things working more "clear".
Like walking acceleration. If you change move, you speed highly decreased and you undersand that this is "no-no". When you falling you got stun and stop moving, you understand that you shouldnot falling. You see how your weapon spread increased when you shooting, and you see overheat, you not shoot, heat down. You understand it. Game was easy for everyone, imo. (except some bug with weapon delay, but it was a bug, not mechanics). Most unclear thing in 2012 was a TOW detonation. All other will be more visible. It is like game teaching you on your mistakes.

Edited by nepacaka, 05 August 2016 - 11:01 AM.

Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#14
coldform

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It is like game teaching you on your mistakes.


This. There are a great deal of mistakes that low to mid tier pilots make, and are completely unaware of them.

Also, that wierd thing where the weapons move while dodging, but your ordnance flies true. Very wierd.

I like going against the best of any game I play. Helps you in the long run n motivates u to do more. Always room for improvement not failure

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