2. Garage Time until your first spawn
Edited by GreyFalcon, 10 December 2015 - 03:23 PM.
Edited by GreyFalcon, 10 December 2015 - 03:23 PM.
TRIBES: Developed a server mod with 40 servers, 20 clans, and competitive league play.
PLANETSIDE: Got about 30 suggested changes implemented, and 40,000 game downloads via a 1Mb mini-installer I developed.
http://hawken.heroku...user/GreyFa1con
Garage Time until your first spawn
on a serious note, time between matches really should be decreased.
Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka
Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/
Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/
G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/
Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/
Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/
Wow! Original and meaningful suggestions! In the proper section! AMAZING! *Dies from sarcasm overdose*
Is it really though? Haven't seen any requests for more Garage Time?
Even though it's a big detriment to new player experience.
And the other Suggestions forum is usually people asking for unreasonable vast new content.
(i.e. Asking for turning Hawken into an RPG)
Even though this game has limited developer resources right now.
And honestly, these are perhaps the main issues the game has right now.
(And heck, if they are cliche, perhaps that's a good indicator that they need fixing)
TRIBES: Developed a server mod with 40 servers, 20 clans, and competitive league play.
PLANETSIDE: Got about 30 suggested changes implemented, and 40,000 game downloads via a 1Mb mini-installer I developed.
http://hawken.heroku...user/GreyFa1con
IMHO...
If autobalance hasn't been "fixed" by this point, it's never going to be.
I'd much prefer "unreasonable vast new content" to "Oh hey we messed with matchmaker again, GLHF."



"DeeRax's got what you've always wanted."
sry but the main issue is server/routing/whatever performance that lead to lag / stuttering / weapons firing delays / hitreg fuzzy bunny / secondary projectile disappearing.
And then other stuff. IMHO balancing pubs with ragequit and mid-game joining can be really hard to achieve with the actual player base. and garage time... allow you do afkbio....
IMHO...
If autobalance hasn't been "fixed" by this point, it's never going to be.I'd much prefer "unreasonable vast new content" to "Oh hey we messed with matchmaker again, GLHF."
They got like 1 to 3 active duty programmers at most right now.
As much as you'd prefer it gigantic budget content. Be realistic.
What they need right now is tweaks.
And "they" at this point when it comes to match maker, is basically the previous developers.
Reloaded is still working on build code, (And getting server routing all figured out)
and might be limited from altering matchmaker too much yet.
Although maybe not, since it could largely be a serverside thing.
Similar deal with the garage time. Looks like something they could just alter with a bit of serverside code.
IMHO balancing pubs with ragequit and mid-game joining can be really hard to achieve with the actual player base. and garage time... allow you do afkbio....
It's not healthy for Hawken to have less than 400 concurrent playerbase.
Besides which, thats what the AFK kick feature is for.
Edited by GreyFa1con, 10 December 2015 - 01:44 AM.
TRIBES: Developed a server mod with 40 servers, 20 clans, and competitive league play.
PLANETSIDE: Got about 30 suggested changes implemented, and 40,000 game downloads via a 1Mb mini-installer I developed.
http://hawken.heroku...user/GreyFa1con
About the balance, I don't know if something really efficient can be done at low cost.
Maybe, (just maybe) :
- 2 types of servers, Free for all and MMR restricted. MMR categories could be below 1600, between 1600 and 2k, between 2K and 2.4K, Above 2.4K
only FFA should be selectable manually, and the MM (with random search) should first search for a match in the appropriate category then ask if you want to go to a FFA server.
- no mid-game joining that lead to uneven teams
-> the purpose is to limit unbalance by reducing MMR standard variation and avoiding uneven teams.
- score condition for winning : TDM after 5min if score difference is > 15 ends the match, and same sort of stuff for Siege.
-> limit the duration of the stomp to make them less painfull and ragequit
- remove underdog bonus to scores, and drastically increase the MMR variation for account that played less than 10h (dunno what level it correspond to)
- add e-mail verification
-> limit smurfs
autobalance dont have a problems.
if you look deeper, the root of problem is:
1) smurfs (autobalancer not work when ppl have a fake rating)
2) leavers/ragequitters (when you play not 6vs6)
my opinion, most of 6vs6 matches balanced well (in ideal situation, 6vs6, no smurfs, no leavers)
but one team SHOULD lose. and team which not leading rules and not use focus-fire lose. this is how it working.
if you play in siege and wil 3000/0, it does not mean that teams not balanced. just one team was better in UE management, and going to AA in 6 ppl group, and kill all enemy team 6vs1 while enemy team was disunited.
disbalance in team = 5 vs 6 matches, where one of team hust have +150 additional DPS and + 350-800 bonus HP. this is unbalanced.
when u talking about autobalancer, u look in wrong direction.
Edited by nepacaka, 10 December 2015 - 03:05 AM.
Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka
Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/
Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/
G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/
Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/
Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/
Oh yay, another thread about how to REALLY improve Hawken!
Edited by Pleasure_Mortar, 10 December 2015 - 04:31 AM.
Yes, however the one thing that probably should be added is stopping the exploits for aimbots and other hacks. This will level the playing field a bit. I know why some newer players would do it, but it's something that should be eliminated.
on a serious note, time between matches really should be decreased.
than how will i roll my smokes in between matches?
1 minute match leave penalty?
Autobalancer does its job excellently if everyone stays inside the room, the skill levels are indeed balanced out. What some people count as unbalanced is when one team steamrolls the other 40-12 in TDM, or get a 3000-0 Siege loss. Landslides doesn't mean the autobalancer screwed up necessarily. It makes me wonder though, it doesn't mean the match itself was unbalanced statistically. 6v6, MMRs balanced excellently. Where the fault lies is with the players. Siege, no one went to AA. TDM, no one ever grouped up. Landslides don't ever mean the match was imbalanced. It just means one team worked better together than the other. The players made the right decisions. Player chose the right mechs to suit the map. One team refused to group up or play the objective. The list goes on and on.
So therefore it is the fault of the players for the loss instead of the autobalancer. Also, the thing is people leave, and that fuzzy bunnys things up so either prevent leaves midmatch or penalize it with a small timeout.
When you lose, the first place one should look is inward. What did you do wrong that caused you to lose? Shifting the blame to the autobalancer doesn't help you improve, it just makes you look like a whiny fuzzy bunny. We need to get rid of the notion that we are blameless and the system is at fault, when oftentimes it is just not the case.
1. Fix Autobalance so less landslides occur (Especially midgame team assignment)
2. Garage Time until your first spawn
Notable mention:
3. Nerf Scanner to get rid of the radar wallhacks aspect
4. Disable Shift+S by default, and make it an option
5. Put out any new TDM map
3 and 5 go without saying.
Scanner just needs a rework to be fair.
However, for 4, I would propose to leave Shift-S on by default and give the option to rebind it to something else. Players need to adjust to the game to be successful, meaning they have to learn the keybinds. If they don't like it, sure, bind it somewhere else, but by no means should someone intentionally disable a mechanic designed to help you.
Rather, the tutorial should go through how useful Shift-S can be to a player and teach a new player how and when to use it.
Far better than shutting it down and never having the opportunity to learn it.
1. Sandwiches
2. Sandwiches
lol
Edited by Silverfire, 10 December 2015 - 08:12 AM.
Spoiler
That and parties. I get that they count as much more than the combination of the 2 player's MMR, which works in a relatively balanced (as in not a big gap between lowest and highest MMR) server. But when a party of 2 or more players made of players that have a lower MMR than the server average joins, the team with the party on it usually loses by a landslide.
I guess ideally matchmaker should look a the server average and not increase MMR taken into balancing calculations for the party if their average is under the server average.
Edited by neon, 10 December 2015 - 08:09 AM.
t
t
CRITICAL
ASSIST 
t
t
Wow! Original and meaningful suggestions! In the proper section! AMAZING! *Dies from sarcasm overdose*
Merl, please tell Tiggs to lock this thread and/or move it to the Suggestions and Ideas subforum, this thread is polluting my general discussions.
Now back to the action -
LOOKS LIKE YALL FOLKS BE TALKIN BOUT SOME MATCHMAKING! Why don't you all take a sip from the education cup and check out some sick threads where it's been talked about before
Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 10 December 2015 - 08:13 AM.
1. Fix Autobalance so less landslides occur (Especially midgame team assignment)
Did you have a fix in mind?
1. Fix Autobalance so less landslides occur (Especially midgame team assignment)
2. Garage Time until your first spawn
on a serious note, time between matches really should be decreased.
Why not just be able to change items, internals, and buy things during matches? Does it take anything out of the game besides removing the use to buy multiple of one mech?
I do appreciate the art, but I don't have time to find anything good. /h/
That and parties.
oh. yep, and parties too. i forgot about it cuz I always play solo.
it probably can be be good create ranked matches, to divided low-mmr and high-mmr pub players, where high-mmr ppl can play with each other.
Why not just be able to change items, internals, and buy things during matches? Does it take anything out of the game besides removing the use to buy multiple of one mech?
other player shouldn't wait while you think what you need to buy now.
it's like in FrontMission 3. fight - it is fight and nothing more, in garage you can sit whole day and experiment with internals, if you need it.
Edited by nepacaka, 10 December 2015 - 08:29 AM.
Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka
Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/
Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/
G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/
Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/
Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/
Crushing landslides will always be a thing that happens, its a video game. Really close games will also always be a thing that happens too, its a video game. I'd prefer to have both. TBH, every match being as close and as balanced as possible would get overly-tense and really boring, I don't know why there is always a clamor to move video games in that direction. Just play the fuzzy bunnyng game, cast the fuzzy bunnyng die, live a little.
OK Sure, if matchmaker can be tweaked and improved some more, go for it, but certainly not to the exclusion of anything else. And it's certainly not the #1 thing HAWKEN needs right now to be infinitely better/attract new players. I can tolerate a whacky matchmaker, indefinitely and forever, as long as I'm consistently getting to do it with new fuzzy bunny. Most other people could too. Even if it's just minor new fuzzy bunny only 1-3 people are able to make. Just saying.
1.) Get better fuzzy bunnyng servers, & 2.) give us new fuzzy bunny to spend our internetcashbucks on. If somewhere along the way match balance can be improved, fine whatever (Parties are an actual problem, I concur). Or not, I don't care. As long as the first two things get done first, at some point. Eventually?
tl;dr: I'm not saying the game's autobalance is fine or can't/shouldn't be fixed. I'm just saying "I don't care."
Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 10 December 2015 - 09:17 AM.



"DeeRax's got what you've always wanted."
I think the point is that you can't force every match to be a non-landslide. Those will happen, regardless of autobalancer as it depends on the players themselves. We can't force every match to be close just to make players feel better. That's artificial success.
I actually very love old-matchmaking system for pub, without any rating. game just put 12 players in match and you always play 6vs6. it how it should be. i hate wait 2 minutes while balancer find a siege for me, and then i play 5vs6.
I also don't love server-browser. this thing kill fun. early we have several 5 fun 6vs6 matches, now we have 20 matches with the same amount of ppl, but all of they 5vs6, 3vs3, 4vs5 etc. in my opinion, it is problem.
i know some interest fact about wargaming politique in WoT. WoT matchmaking balance matches by tanks, but not calculate skill. i.e. one team can have all pilots with 65% win percentage, and the other team have all people with 45%. As a result, we have matches known as a "turbo-lose" (when you lose with score close to 15/0 :D).
People many times asked about balancing players by skill. ie, good pilots plaing with good pilots, nubs plaing with nubs. But Wargaming think, that this way can make matches not fun. it probably wiil be an very interest matches, but players will be tired after 2-3 matches.
I'm not sure how it working, bit probably their politique have some sense...
Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka
Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/
Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/
G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/
Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/
Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/
As a result, we have matches known as a "turbo-lose" (when you lose with score close to 15/0 :D).
LOL, I love that, I'm going to use that term from now on.



"DeeRax's got what you've always wanted."
To GrayFa1con: Hey man, take it easy what people write to you. They love the game and most are good people (ok not most but some
...), but they've grown a bit jaded and mean with what the game had to go through...
LOL, I love that, I'm going to use that term from now on.
yeah, it is like lose in TDM with 40/0 score in less than 5 min in hawken :3
sometimes this happens
Edited by nepacaka, 10 December 2015 - 09:20 AM.
Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka
Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/
Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/
G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/
Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/
Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/
From a guy who successfully helped revive two FPS games that feature powerarmor and jumpjets.Oh yay, another thread about how to really improve Hawken.
1) For smurfs, that's easy. Just treat all lowMMR+lowTime pub stompers as if they were smurfs and hike up their MMR dramatically. And boot them out of the server, and requeue to another one at the end of the round.autobalance dont have a problems.
if you look deeper, the root of problem is:
1) smurfs (autobalancer not work when ppl have a fake rating)
2) leavers/ragequitters (when you play not 6vs6)
If you could change your equipment until your first spawn. There wouldn't be much reason to spend 50 seconds before switching maps.on a serious note, time between matches really should be decreased.
1) Don't think they have the playerbase size to support ranked servers at the high end of MMR. And assuming no smurfs, they already kinda do that at the low end of MMR with locked servers outside your skill level.1) 2 types of servers, Free for all and MMR restricted.
2) no mid-game joining that lead to uneven teams
3) score condition for winning : TDM after 5min if score difference is > 15 ends the match, and same sort of stuff for Siege.
4) remove underdog bonus to scores, and drastically increase the MMR variation for account that played less than 10h (dunno what level it correspond to)
- add e-mail verification
-> limit smurfs
Why not just be able to change items, internals, and buy things during matches? Does it take anything out of the game besides removing the use to buy multiple of one mech?
Edited by GreyFa1con, 10 December 2015 - 09:34 AM.
TRIBES: Developed a server mod with 40 servers, 20 clans, and competitive league play.
PLANETSIDE: Got about 30 suggested changes implemented, and 40,000 game downloads via a 1Mb mini-installer I developed.
http://hawken.heroku...user/GreyFa1con
I don't think having the balancer shuffle the teams more is a preferable solution to preventing players from shuffling the teams as much as they do.
OK Sure, if matchmaker can be tweaked and improved some more, go for it, but certainly not to the exclusion of anything else. And it's certainly not the #1 thing HAWKEN needs right now to be infinitely better/attract new players.
I don't think having the balancer shuffle the teams more is a preferable solution to preventing players from shuffling the teams as much as they do.
TRIBES: Developed a server mod with 40 servers, 20 clans, and competitive league play.
PLANETSIDE: Got about 30 suggested changes implemented, and 40,000 game downloads via a 1Mb mini-installer I developed.
http://hawken.heroku...user/GreyFa1con
It kinda is though. Landslides are really un-fun for the losers and the winners. And create a really horrible new-player experience.
Only other comparable thing that they could do is add new maps.
Or better newbie training.
But that takes a lot more development resources.
I don't really understand what you mean by the latter part of that statement. But shifting one player around on occasion, so the whole server doesn't have to suffer a landslide sounds like a better alternative.
I think the point is that you can't force every match to be a non-landslide. Those will happen, regardless of autobalancer as it depends on the players themselves. We can't force every match to be close just to make players feel better. That's artificial success.
What some people count as unbalanced is when one team steamrolls the other 40-12 in TDM, or get a 3000-0 Siege loss. Landslides doesn't mean the autobalancer screwed up necessarily. It makes me wonder though, it doesn't mean the match itself was unbalanced statistically. For example, take a server, 6v6, MMRs balanced excellently. Where the fault lies is with the players. Siege, no one went to AA. TDM, no one ever grouped up. Landslides don't ever mean the match was imbalanced. It just means one team worked better together than the other. The players made the right decisions. Player chose the right mechs to suit the map. One team refused to group up or play the objective. The list goes on and on.
I do fully 120% support more maps.
I also 120% support a better newbie training system. It sucks right now, new players are entering games just as confused.
Educate the new players and give them the proper knowledge to succeed. Give them the opportunity to succeed. Don't hand them an artificial success. It's a far better long term solution than tweaking matchmaking and autobalancer to frustrate players within matches further.
I don't really understand what you mean by the latter part of that statement. But shifting one player around on occasion, so the whole server doesn't have to suffer a landslide sounds like a better alternative.
My experience has been that if an even number of players on accounts reasonably close to their main mmr land in a lobby, allow the balancer to make teams, play the match to completion, and repeat, the matches go pretty well.
What I'm trying to say is the balancer works pretty well if you allow it to, but it is far too easy and often beneficial for individual players to do things that directly inhibit the balancers ability to work correctly. Aforementioned actions generally hurt the experience of other players in the server as well beyond just what it does to the balancer, so I think it would be more efficient to remove the things that break the algorithm rather than attempt to complicate the algorithm itself.
Edited by Hyginos, 10 December 2015 - 10:00 AM.
My experience has been that if an even number of players on accounts reasonably close to their main mmr land in a lobby, allow the balancer to make teams, play the match to completion, and repeat, the matches go pretty well.
Edited by GreyFa1con, 10 December 2015 - 10:08 AM.
TRIBES: Developed a server mod with 40 servers, 20 clans, and competitive league play.
PLANETSIDE: Got about 30 suggested changes implemented, and 40,000 game downloads via a 1Mb mini-installer I developed.
http://hawken.heroku...user/GreyFa1con
Autobalancer does its job excellently if everyone stays inside the room, the skill levels are indeed balanced out. What some people count as unbalanced is when one team steamrolls the other 40-12 in TDM, or get a 3000-0 Siege loss. Landslides doesn't mean the autobalancer screwed up necessarily. It makes me wonder though, it doesn't mean the match itself was unbalanced statistically. 6v6, MMRs balanced excellently. Where the fault lies is with the players. Siege, no one went to AA. TDM, no one ever grouped up. Landslides don't ever mean the match was imbalanced. It just means one team worked better together than the other. The players made the right decisions. Player chose the right mechs to suit the map. One team refused to group up or play the objective. The list goes on and on.
well, I play in siege. Bring all EU, launch ships, beat all enemies at AA and capture it, defend AA, etc... than we have score like 3000/1600, and enemy team start leave from game.
why i should press F12 and switch in another team, if I do everything to won in this round? why i should switch?
I play for win in matches. if i need working like a bait, if necessary, I'll even depict the bait to distract the enemy team, and allowing my team gain a foothold at this time on AA.
you guys are really think that this is "competitive"?
No, it is just something stupid and casual.
Just realise, Navi and Fnatic play in Grand Final in Dota. than 2 players from navi leave, because they team close to defeat, and one player from Fnatic team should switch for Navi team? Just realise, how stupid it is!
And yes, we need return frag count in our f@cking score table, and delete this "300 score" for kids.
Edited by nepacaka, 10 December 2015 - 10:53 AM.
Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka
Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/
Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/
G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/
Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/
Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/
To be honest, I don't really play Siege or Missile Assault.well, I play in siege. Bring all EU, launch ships, beat all enemies at AA and capture it, defend AA, etc... than we have score like 3000/1600, and enemy team start leave from game.
why i should press F12 and switch in another team, if I do everything to won in this round? why i should switch?
I play for win in matches. if i need working like a bait, if necessary, I'll even depict the bait to distract the enemy team, and allowing my team gain a foothold at this time on AA.
you guys are really think that this is "competitive"?
Edited by GreyFa1con, 10 December 2015 - 10:50 AM.
TRIBES: Developed a server mod with 40 servers, 20 clans, and competitive league play.
PLANETSIDE: Got about 30 suggested changes implemented, and 40,000 game downloads via a 1Mb mini-installer I developed.
http://hawken.heroku...user/GreyFa1con
To be honest, I don't really play Siege or Missile Assault.
ok.
well, I play in TDM. Kill people, look at radar, beat all enemies and stay in group, etc... than we have score like 25/4, and enemy team start leave from game.
why i should press F12 and switch in another team, if I do everything to won in this round? why i should switch?
I play for win in matches. if i need to kill people faster... i kill people faster!
you guys are really think that this is "competitive"?
Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka
Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/
Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/
G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/
Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/
Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/
ok.
well, I play in TDM. Kill people, look at radar, beat all enemies and stay in group, etc... than we have score like 25/4, and enemy team start leave from game.
why i should press F12 and switch in another team, if I do everything to won in this round? why i should switch?
I play for win in matches. if i need to kill people faster... i kill people faster!
you guys are really think that this is "competitive"?
TRIBES: Developed a server mod with 40 servers, 20 clans, and competitive league play.
PLANETSIDE: Got about 30 suggested changes implemented, and 40,000 game downloads via a 1Mb mini-installer I developed.
http://hawken.heroku...user/GreyFa1con
0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users