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#1
harmless_kittens

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I thought I had read somewhere that this item was "banned"?  But it seems to me that I can purchase it if I wanted to.

 

It's weird because my son was asking me if he could use one, and I told him I didn't think so.  But then he asked "Then why is it still there?"  Good question!

 

Second, how do these manifest when they are used in battle?  Does it show up on the map like turrets and scramblers do?  I don't recall ever seeing one.

 

Next, how does it work?  Does it show the positions of all enemy mechs in its radius, even if they are cloaked?  I ask this mainly because I primary a Predator, and I have suspected at times that the enemy could detect me even though I was cloaked, hidden, and not moving.

 

So is this thing really available for use in TDM and other modes?  If so, why don't I see more of them?  Is it just considered "unsportsmanlike" to use one?

 

Thanks in advance for the clarification.


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#2
DallasCreeper

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Scanner is an deployable like a turret or scrambler. It reveals any enemy mech within its range: cloaked, stationary, walking, or repairing. It also does not appear on enemy radar, ever. The noise it emits is loud and annoying. This is basically why it is banned by the competitive Hawken community and their events, along with Orblords(Advanced Repair kit and Extractor). 


 

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#3
OdinTheWise

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scumbags use scanner 


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#4
KaBLoS

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good that emp and shield is not banned :)



#5
Hyginos

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So is this thing really available for use in TDM and other modes?  If so, why don't I see more of them?  Is it just considered "unsportsmanlike" to use one?

 

The scanner in TDM is a shade weaker than in SG or MA becasue the battle may move out of its range.

 

And yes, it is considered unsportsmanlike, but it also makes you bad by training you to be complacent about your awareness. I've also seen a number of instances (and perpetrated them myself) where a player will notify the enemy team of the location of a scanner, becasue fuzzy bunny scanners.


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#6
harmless_kittens

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So I've likely had it used against me and I just never knew it?  Maybe I just didn't recognize the noise.

 

WHY, if everyone hates it so much, would the DEVs not just remove it, or at the very least make it appear on enemy radar?  (Given that Scramblers and Turrets show up on Radar, it's the lack of a radar signature that I understand the least.)



#7
TheButtSatisfier

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WHY, if everyone hates it so much, would the DEVs not just remove it, or at the very least make it appear on enemy radar?  (Given that Scramblers and Turrets show up on Radar, it's the lack of a radar signature that I understand the least.)

 

For the same reason why nothing has been modified, added, or removed from Hawken for roughly a year: there's a development freeze in place.

 

That, or they do have some development going on, but we haven't seen public release changes for about a year.


Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 29 April 2016 - 10:06 AM.

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#8
Hyginos

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So I've likely had it used against me and I just never knew it?  Maybe I just didn't recognize the noise.

 

WHY, if everyone hates it so much, would the DEVs not just remove it, or at the very least make it appear on enemy radar?  (Given that Scramblers and Turrets show up on Radar, it's the lack of a radar signature that I understand the least.)

 

Well, they did nerf the range at one point, but the devs haven't really been doing much of anything, to say nothing of balance patches.

 

It makes a noise similar to the scrambler, though slightly higher pitched IIRC. You mentioned that people were spotting you in a pred, so it is worth noting that the sound of a breacher charging is audible from a long ways off.


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#9
Amidatelion

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I thought I had read somewhere that this item was "banned"? But it seems to me that I can purchase it if I wanted to.

It's weird because my son was asking me if he could use one, and I told him I didn't think so. But then he asked "Then why is it still there?" Good question!

Second, how do these manifest when they are used in battle? Does it show up on the map like turrets and scramblers do? I don't recall ever seeing one.

Next, how does it work? Does it show the positions of all enemy mechs in its radius, even if they are cloaked? I ask this mainly because I primary a Predator, and I have suspected at times that the enemy could detect me even though I was cloaked, hidden, and not moving.

So is this thing really available for use in TDM and other modes? If so, why don't I see more of them? Is it just considered "unsportsmanlike" to use one?

Thanks in advance for the clarification.

Scanner is banned in TPG because it is horrendously imbalanced. It gives perfect radar awareness to an entire team at little-to-no risk. Compare this to the only comparable alternative: a cloaked pred in the middle of an enemy team. High risk. For the same reason it is considered, as you say, unsportsmanlike. Complete noons are given a pass because they don't know better. But experienced players using it are mocked mercilessly, especially if they use the excuse "oh if it was unfair the devs would patch it."

As to revealing stealth, it will periodically ping with a "enemy sighted" at your location on the minimap, which can direct more scrutiny to your position.

The other side of it is that it makes you cognitively lazy. You should have a very twitchy eye on your radar at all times and a scanner habituates you to more information provided at any time - as opposed to being able to glean swathes of tactical information from a blink. It is unlikely that you will develop the ability to distinguish a C from a B class from radar data, let alone a Blitzing Raider from a boosting Scout.

tl;dr scanner is cheap, dishonourable and cripples your awareness as a pilot.


Edited by Amidatelion, 29 April 2016 - 12:02 PM.


#10
DallasCreeper

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-snip for length-

I have begun to notice many people in pubs  don't watch their radar, ore else they'd notice the blitzing G2 Raider coming from behind them. It's especially funny with Techs, losing almost their entire health pool in one moment. It's even funnier when they have a Scanner and they still don't notice. 


 

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#11
Charcoal

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This plus the bugged Pred mines can really spoil my mood.

 

* Pred mines can't be popped with explosives like EOC mines


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#12
crockrocket

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Most private servers will kick anyone using scanners at any time if someone with admin is present. It's basically just a gentlemens agreement that people don't use it, though below 2k mmr many who aren't involved in comp play do still use it.


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#13
StubbornPuppet

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It's kind of been said, but I did want to reply to you Harmless Kittens:

 

It's not "banned" unless you're playing in one of those private matches for one of the competitive leagues.  I can safely assume you are not and probably aren't interested in them.

 

So, there's nothing stopping you from using them.  In general, the long-term players will give you a lot of crap for using them... and they have their good reasons.  I have chosen not to use them, in order to 'keep the peace' and maintain a gentlemanly spirit in our small community.  But, I see no real reason that YOU shouldn't feel free to equip them and go experimenting with them.

 

As for how useful they are (especially related to the general disgust folks have for them), it comes down to the same fact as everything else in Hawken; they are only as good as the players ability to use them to their full potential.  You absolutely have to be really good at always having a third eye on your radar for them to provide you with a significant level of benefit.  If you're already weak at always noticing what is on your radar, the Scanner item will still only benefit you when you do happen to look at radar.

 

What it does:  It provides enhanced radar in a fixed diameter range that shows movement of opponents.  Normal radar only shows opponents when they shoot, boost, jump or dodge.  The Scanner shows them no matter what.  (I cannot recall if it spoils the cloaking of Preds and/or Infiltrators).  It also provides that same enhancement to any of your own teammates when they enter the Scanner's range.

 

I think it is the "provides radar enhancement to all teammates" part that really gets most people fired up... and that they call it a 'global wallhack'.  I don't think it's nearly that bad - because it is not 3-D and only shows that info on the radar in the corner of your screen. It also makes a distinct enough sound that opponents usually eliminate it within moments of its being deployed (unless you're incredibly crafty or know all the spots where you can toss it inside of objects - which is more of an exploit).

 

Again, I don't use it to 'keep the peace'... but have also learned there are items which are ultimately more valuable to my success in-game.


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#14
WmMoneyFrmMissouri

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Scanners due to their radiation output are also known to cause erectile dysfunction. Couple this with cheaply made Prosk mechs and you're asking for a long term problem. It becomes suspect when you're constantly having to say sorry, you're just stressed from your recent mission, you'll perform better next time. Ask HBB, she's tired of hearing that "excuse".
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#15
Call_Me_Ishmael

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... use the excuse "oh if it was unfair the devs would patch it."
 

 

Papa-Incin and Tech

 

Vulcan Gren on Ability

 

Predhole mines or predholes who use breacher with shield

 

True Orblording (Brawler or Vanguard a la Davehole)

 

Fuel & Failsafe A-classes

 

Skip training


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#16
ticklemyiguana

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Kittens, your involvement in this community is valued. I appreciate the assumption-less manner in which you ask questions whose answers many of us take for granted.


Edited by ticklemyiguana, 29 April 2016 - 08:34 PM.

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#17
Rainbow_Sheep

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Skip training

You can skip training (on a new account) by clicking on one of the other menu buttons (Garage, Shop etc) when you are shoved into the training menu

Unless you're talking about the game limit before you can play certain gamemodes like MA etc.

Edited by Rainbow Sheep, 29 April 2016 - 10:38 PM.

Spoiler

#18
JackVandal

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Most of the above is true, though much of it as far as bad tactical awareness leans toward long term habits, short term issues i have notice, being almost exclusively a pub player, are related to balance. In pubs scanners provide a crutch to players who use them effectively, and function like a wall hack to skilled players on a team that has scanners as the radar shows elevation differences also. As for the immediate impact, a scenario i have had on a few occasions.

 

Walking, silently flanking enemy team, walk around corner and receive an emp and 5 tows to the face, insta-gibed because the entire team saw me coming.


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#19
PsychedelicGrass

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For what it's worth I used to use a scanner quite often a long time ago. Once I stopped using them I improved at the game in various areas. Those who said they promote negative, long term habits are right.



Now I hate scanners so much that I'll happily run into an entire enemy team and die if it means I can destroy their scanner in the process

Edited by PsychedelicGrass, 30 April 2016 - 12:09 PM.

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#20
The_Silencer

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The Portable Scanner item should not render on radar those cloacked enemies who are walking far away from it.. within its close range or near to the scanner might be something as reasonable as fair but hey.. that's a pending balancing tweak we've been discussing a thousand times on here the forums..

 

Other than that.. well... probably non-moving mechs or mechs which are repairing -and after a short period of time- should not render on radar either ... but other than that the Portable Scanner "fullfools" its function in the game "well enough"


Edited by The_Silencer, 02 May 2016 - 11:39 AM.

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#21
6ixxer

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... predholes who use breacher with shield
 
True Orblording (Brawler or Vanguard ...


Looks like guilty on 2 charges O_o
I'm apparently a Predhole and an Orbhole?
I used to be a Scanhole but now i'm working on being an EMPhole

There have been plenty of suggested reworks of the scanner (including mine to have an anti-scanner internal) and I hope they rework it rather than deleting from game.

#22
Arkhaun

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Well, they did nerf the range at one point, but the devs haven't really been doing much of anything, to say nothing of balance patches.

 

It makes a noise similar to the scrambler, though slightly higher pitched IIRC. You mentioned that people were spotting you in a pred, so it is worth noting that the sound of a breacher charging is audible from a long ways off.

also the that eoc pred secondary is the deadest of giveaways once you learn that mines are evil shadow magic packets and whatever noise makes them needs murderous attention


SORRY CAPS

 

 

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#23
DallasCreeper

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Papa-Incin and Tech

 

Vulcan Gren on Ability

 

Predhole mines or predholes who use breacher with shield

 

True Orblording (Brawler or Vanguard a la Davehole)

 

Fuel & Failsafe A-classes

 

Skip training

I have done all of these. 


 

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#24
The_Silencer

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Papa-Incin and Tech

 

Vulcan Gren on Ability

 

Predhole mines or predholes who use breacher with shield

 

True Orblording (Brawler or Vanguard a la Davehole)

 

Fuel & Failsafe A-classes

 

Skip training

not me

 

well.. besides point 2 (& 6)... 2 has an excuse while playing with not so responsive team mates..  basically when you have to face off enemies alone on the field


.

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#25
Flifang

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For those who want a good elevation based wall hack, I suggest turning on the video setting dynamic shadows. Shadows project on the underside of where a mech is standing like on the underside of the bridge in prosk for instance. It doesn't even require the use of an item slot.

 

After some time your intuition will become better than the scanner most of the time anyway. I'll catch a flanking pred or other mech just about any and every game in which my team is holding the top of uptown. It's so easy to notice when one enemy is missing from the chokepoints when nobody is killing anybody and just about everyone is participating in the standoff.



#26
StubbornPuppet

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For those who want a good elevation based wall hack, I suggest turning on the video setting dynamic shadows. Shadows project on the underside of where a mech is standing like on the underside of the bridge in prosk for instance. It doesn't even require the use of an item slot.

 

After some time your intuition will become better than the scanner most of the time anyway. I'll catch a flanking pred or other mech just about any and every game in which my team is holding the top of uptown. It's so easy to notice when one enemy is missing from the chokepoints when nobody is killing anybody and just about everyone is participating in the standoff.

 

Ha!  I did not realize that it was a setting that was allowing me to see players shadows through ceilings and walls.  It's always bugged me, like it was just a glitch in the Unreal Engine.  I'll probably turn it off now.


To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#27
Nov8tr

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Just thought I'd give everyone a heads up. SecretSociety and LorentzBlank use scanners. Pretty wimp, unprofessional move. And get really hostile calling ya names if you say anything about it. That makes it even more wimp. So keep you eyes open in matches for em using scanners. Forewarned is good. :D  Below is a wimp using a scanner. :yes:

 

5739a3b74585b.gif


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#28
harmless_kittens

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I suspected the enemy was using scanners a couple nights ago.  How can I tell for sure?  I never saw an actual scanner.



#29
TheButtSatisfier

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I suspected the enemy was using scanners a couple nights ago.  How can I tell for sure?  I never saw an actual scanner.

 

1.) Learn to identify the sound of a scanner. If you hear a scanner, then there's a scanner afoot.

 

2.) Get killed by every enemy team member. On the right-hand side of the kill cam you'll see the loadout of the mech that killed you. Look for a scanner in their inventory. If you see someone with a scanner in their loadout, then it's possible that they've deployed it.

 

The only surefire way to tell if a specific person is using a scanner is to see them throw it down. Besides that, you won't know for sure.


Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 16 May 2016 - 01:38 PM.

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8) Tech in the streets, Brawler in the sheets (8


#30
StubbornPuppet

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I suspected the enemy was using scanners a couple nights ago.  How can I tell for sure?  I never saw an actual scanner.

 

Watch the chat.  If someone is using a scanner, you'll see a bunch of people asking them to stop.  :P


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To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#31
DallasCreeper

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Just thought I'd give everyone a heads up. SecretSociety and LorentzBlank use scanners. Pretty wimp, unprofessional move. And get really hostile calling ya names if you say anything about it. That makes it even more wimp. So keep you eyes open in matches for em using scanners. Forewarned is good. :D  Below is a wimp using a scanner. :yes:

 

5739a3b74585b.gif

Totally not a callout. 


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#32
harmless_kittens

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1.) Learn to identify the sound of a scanner. If you hear a scanner, then there's a scanner afoot.

 

2.) Get killed by every enemy team member. On the right-hand side of the kill cam you'll see the loadout of the mech that killed you. Look for a scanner in their inventory. If you see someone with a scanner in their loadout, then it's possible that they've deployed it.

 

The only surefire way to tell if a specific person is using a scanner is to see them throw it down. Besides that, you won't know for sure.

 

Will I hear the sound if I deploy it myself, so I know what it sounds like?  If not, is there an audio file of it someone could post?  Thanks.



#33
TheButtSatisfier

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Will I hear the sound if I deploy it myself, so I know what it sounds like?  If not, is there an audio file of it someone could post?  Thanks.

 

You'll hear it if you deploy it yourself.


8) Tech in the streets, Brawler in the sheets (8


#34
6ixxer

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Both scanner noise and scrambler noise are mixed in there, but you should be able to discern both.
Best to just deploy one and have a listen

#35
LorentzBlank

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Just thought I'd give everyone a heads up. SecretSociety and LorentzBlank use scanners. Pretty wimp, unprofessional move. And get really hostile calling ya names if you say anything about it. That makes it even more wimp. So keep you eyes open in matches for em using scanners. Forewarned is good. :D  Below is a wimp using a scanner. :yes:

 

5739a3b74585b.gif

I used to use the scanner, but it was long ago ( 2014) and was before i player with pred (witch i started this year, and is pretty much the only mech that i use).
My usual items are h.e. bomb and emps. But i'm pretty sure that you never saw me using scanner, cause it was a LONG LONG time before i was any good to someone even notice me in the game and rage about me in a forum or remember my complex name.



#36
StubbornPuppet

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Ha, this whole conversation feels like telling someone, "Man, you should never, ever even try heroin - it will ruin you for life.  But, if you want to know what it feels like, the only way to find out is to shoot up."


To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#37
HHJFTRU

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The scanner has been nerfed to oblivion, it's not worth using it.  Er....as I heard from a friend of mine...er, not actually a friend, rather sort of a .....er...


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THANKS FOR THIS AWESOME GAME!

 


#38
StubbornPuppet

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The scanner has been nerfed to oblivion, it's not worth using it.  Er....as I heard from a friend of mine...er, not actually a friend, rather sort of a .....er...

 

Not that I've heard of.  It got a slight reduction in radius a long time ago (maybe over a year)... but it still instantly prompts pitchforks and torches the moment someone deploys one.


To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#39
DemitronPrime

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The scanner has been nerfed to oblivion, it's not worth using it.  Er....as I heard from a friend of mine...er, not actually a friend, rather sort of a .....er...

mhmmm

 

lol

 

Though its true, scanner is 80% a waste of space, as soon as people relalize you have one you become a Skrub and thus, out weighing any possible advantage you may have gained


Edited by DemitronPrime, 01 June 2016 - 02:14 PM.

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#40
HHJFTRU

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Not that I've heard of.  It got a slight reduction in radius a long time ago (maybe over a year)... 

I'd call it a massive reduction.

 

... but it still instantly prompts pitchforks and torches the moment someone deploys one.

 

No, it's not me, I can assure, I don't use scanners (anymore).


Ceterum censeo ... bootcamp-servers!  &:

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     #buffG2R                               #nerfZerk'n'Assault

     #dosomethingwithHF             #noisesupression4breacher

THANKS FOR THIS AWESOME GAME!

 





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