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the new hc values are brilliant!

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#1
Browno

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50 hc rewarded for a win now and 200 for team balancer!
Really nice move!
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KOBALT DEFENCE REGIMENT

...and let slip the dogs of war...

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#2
DerMax

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Are you serious?


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#3
Dawn_of_Ash

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Are you serious?

 

I am wondering the same thing. O__o

 

Please be true.



#4
(P:B)Augmentia

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Wait is this new? I thought these values were always in place. I can confirm, as I have been getting these the past few days. It is kind of funny, because I noticed I was getting quite alot more HC than usual.


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#5
Shadeness

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Can confirm team balance was buffered from 20 => 200. Didn't notice  when the other one happened.



#6
Dawn_of_Ash

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Wait is this new? I thought these values were always in place. I can confirm, as I have been getting these the past few days. It is kind of funny, because I noticed I was getting quite alot more HC than usual.

 

I think that winning a game was +20 HC. And team balance was the same deal - to have it increased to 200 is amazing!!! :D



#7
PepeKenobi

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Yep, that is cool! :thumbsup:



#8
hotdoginspector

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Hope Reloaded keeps up this amount of enthusiasm...



#9
ReEvolve

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50 hc rewarded for a win now

I think that winning a game was +20 HC.

 

Hm, afaik the win bonus was 50 HC already (unless someone changed the values sometime after May 2014).

 

ec0ae86511e0d661568d51e9509af383.png


Edited by ReEvolve, 20 April 2015 - 08:40 AM.

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#10
Browno

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I also remember it being 20 hc for winning. I would change team whenever i could since it equaled a win

KOBALT DEFENCE REGIMENT

...and let slip the dogs of war...

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#11
teeth_03

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I think that winning should still be more than 20-50 HC. I think it should be 100 with the switch bonus being 200. So if a team is losing, people leave, you hit F12 to volunteer switching, then go to the other team for the clutch win, you could get 300 bonus :)

I'm all for limiting the driving force to win so people stop leaving losing games, but winning should at least count for *something*....

#12
StubbornPuppet

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Now, they just need to take away the "Daily Win Bonus" and replace it with the "Multiple Matches in the same Server Bonus" so that most of the people on the winning team will stop quitting at the end of every match.  That would really help with keeping full and balanced matches in the rotation.


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To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#13
Bergwein

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I think that winning should still be more than 20-50 HC. I think it should be 100 with the switch bonus being 200. So if a team is losing, people leave, you hit F12 to volunteer switching, then go to the other team for the clutch win, you could get 300 bonus :)

 

Um.. yeah, erm..         no.

 

 

 

 

But I also like the change for team balancer.

More HC is always nice. :)



#14
EM1O

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i've seen bailouts and team-switch prompts twice in a game. 400 bonus HC! awsum! more, horatio!


Edited by em1o, 20 April 2015 - 06:56 PM.

#:  chown -R us ./base

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"...oh great Itzamna, you shall know Us by the trail of Dead."


#15
teeth_03

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Um.. yeah, erm.. no.


Posts like this don't help anyone have proper debates on this forum. Care to elaborate?

If the reward for keeping teams balanced is still more than if you win the game, then I don't see what the problem is. The thing is, 20-50 HC seems like a very negligible amount of HC considering the prices of everything. Doesn't seem much like a bonus to me.

Keep in mind, that I think we should get rid of the daily bonus. So if winning a game regardless gives you 100 HC, I think that will help keep players in the game, since you no longer have to play gametypes you don't like as much.

Even at 100 HC, you would still have to win more games than if you got the daily bonus in multiple game types, I think is the point to realize here.

#16
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

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I dislike rewarding winning as a public policy. People who want to win can set up there own competitive brackets and rewards. Forcing it on the public has repeatedly caused toxic behavior in many games. I hate the daily win bonus for its focus on winning and feeding people's rage and I hate rewarding wins with amounts greater than that which is awarded for playing the game.

Why reward toxic behaviour? Why risk creating an elitist, toxic community? Why risk creating a multiplayer game with a social environment that is disgusting and uninviting? Thanks but no thanks.

Edited by WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW, 21 April 2015 - 02:53 AM.

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Thank you for your time,

 

WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW


#17
teeth_03

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See, that's a much better explanation. It never really occurred to me that rewarding wins = toxic communities because I understand losing is part of the game, where as some people don't understand that.

#18
Panzermanathod

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Wins shouldn't be rewarded? Isn't that, like, counter to why most people play video games in the first place? There's going to be your sore winners no matter what, but if wins aren't rewarded then I now some players simply won't care any more.

 

This game is largely competitive in varying degrees. A small win bonus is fine as is. The Daily win bonus, well, I think that arguably it has its place. But if you remove it basically say that players who *do* want to put in effort to win but aren't pricks about it, well... their effort is pointless in wanting to build up funds to get HC.



#19
zorin1

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I think the daily win bonus is good for new users.  I started a new Mech just to see how the leveling would go.  I did not have to pay any money and now have all the Mechs fully loaded out.  I did not buy every weapon or internal possible, just the ones that I wanted.  All I did was play one Mech at a time until I got it leveled and then moved on to another Mech.  I would always play bot-tdm, tdm, missile until I got the daily win bonus.  If I had time, maybe I would play Siege.  I did all this without the double XP or HC.  I would have been in trouble if I was getting double XP and not the HC.  Because I would have leveled my Mech faster than I was getting HC which would have caused me to have to play the mech longer after it was fully leveled so that I had enough HC to get the next Mech. 

 

What am I really saying here?  Hawken is setup right now where a new user does not have to spend any hard earn cash to get all the Mechs.  You don't have to grind after you get your mech fully level.  Maybe HC needs to be reduced so that Reload Games can make some money.


Edited by zorin1, 21 April 2015 - 10:53 AM.


#20
teeth_03

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Maybe HC needs to be reduced so that Reload Games can make some money.


We don't need to make the grind any worse than it is. The devs can make enough money off of cosmetics and impatient players.

#21
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

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See, that's a much better explanation. It never really occurred to me that rewarding wins = toxic communities because I understand losing is part of the game, where as some people don't understand that.

 

 

Wins shouldn't be rewarded? Isn't that, like, counter to why most people play video games in the first place? There's going to be your sore winners no matter what, but if wins aren't rewarded then I now some players simply won't care any more.

 

This game is largely competitive in varying degrees. A small win bonus is fine as is. The Daily win bonus, well, I think that arguably it has its place. But if you remove it basically say that players who *do* want to put in effort to win but aren't pricks about it, well... their effort is pointless in wanting to build up funds to get HC.

 

I worded the opening to my post stronger than what I meant in entirety, so I'd like to add some words to nuance what I mean.

 

Winning should be rewarded but much more important with respect to player experience in my experience is to reward participation with a comparably significant amount. Presently, the 20 HC win-reward represents about a 15% increase from 130 HC to 150 HC for a full-duration match (if memerory serves). That is, the majority of the HC reward is based on participation. I feel that this is the case presently as well as what should be: win rewards represent a small fraction of what the total HC reward is based upon.

 

The problem, specifically, with giving win rewards a large proportional weight is because it sets up a sort of double-whammy stress effect on players. To begin, there might exist a healthy vibe for self-improvement and friendly competition -- players generally already want to win. The problems begin when players want to win because, for F2P players certainly, it would be their only significant source of game currency (or it even simply appears to be the case). In a case of rewarding winning heavily, players want to win more (not necessarily bad on its own) and that desire translates very often into pressure and stress (arguably good or bad) that in turn easily translates into toxic behaviour by egging on other teammates and frustration (definitely bad).

 

At this point, players feel they have to win. Even a winning team might have had a very toxic internal experience -- at this point, a victory bonus is something that "makes up for" a terrible social experience for most of the team. On the losing team, the loss of the victory reward hits hard because they lose (not bad in itself), they wanted to win for the reward and now face disappointment (probably not good), any stressed players might have caused toxic behaviour on top of any actually toxic players (bad), and now, in the case of Daily Win Bonus, a player must risk going through another toxic experience to get a significant victory-based reward (bad because the player is in the mindset of "well, I have to go through yet another match, risk losing, for a reward whose value actually appears to decrease over the course of continuous losses and potential toxic experiences").

 

This is a very large pile of risks and bad games for which most people simply do not have the time to waste or usually have better options. In fact, it is not really quite the players who are toxic normally that are the biggest problem in this case, it is creating an environment that pushes normally pretty relaxed people and players into situations that are unpleasant that they put up with (until they leave the game) consistently and unnecessarily.

 

http://gdcvault.com/...-Shaping-PlayerLoL had to deal with toxic behaviour. Heroes of Newerth as well. Dota as well. I would say these have a less-than-stellar reputation wrt community. It is also not a far throw to assume that real life experiences will also have an impact of player behaviour (and vice versa). While this video doesn't address rewards exactly (IIRC), there are other examples of experiments done in video games that support this approach to mostly negating unnecessary stress in players.

 

Given this information, and the goal of getting more players to stay with Hawken and pay money because they believe Hawken is worth there time, it ends up a logical decision to reward victory with a small fraction of the total HC reward. It also makes sense to remove the Daily Win Bonus because the more significant, impacting thought going through a player's mind will be "should I risk wasting my time to maybe possibly get the Daily Win Bonus while also risking a bad frustrating game" vs. "maybe I can get the Daily Win Bonus over with."

 

That is to say, I can perhaps assume that only a few players are sore winners and sore losers, and that most players do want to win, but when a game decides to throw in significant victory bonuses, it mostly leads to typical players engaging in sore winner/loser behaviour, and it's basically a good idea not to do that (significantly weighted victory bonuses).

 

I'll throw in that I think replacing the +200 HC Daily Win Bonus with a +100 HC Daily Game Bonus (match complete regardless of outcome) would both be statistically about the same in terms of HC rewarded while also inviting players to "get that daily game in!" without pressuring players to win or lose -- at this point, the players drive their own experiences unhindered, and I think this makes it easier to foster both an open community and a stable population more resilient against players leaving due to rage or frustration.

 

Taking away this sort of pressure to win would also help new players if and when smurfs or even just high level players come in and smash a game. (It would also help skilled players by relieving them of pressure to actually carry a game.) People perform better without a carrot on a stick in creative enterprises (such as how best to destroy enemy mechs) anyway, so it all just makes too much sense to refuse to refuse to heavily reward wins.


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Thank you for your time,

 

WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW


#22
StubbornPuppet

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To respond to a couple of earlier sentiments:

 

I play games because they are fun.  That's the only reason.

 

When games started introducing all of the incentivizing statistics  (like KDR, Win/Loss Ratio, etc.) and started rewarding these performance indicators with points which could be used to even further enhance these stats, only then did anyone I know begin to start thinking about how good they were compared to others... only then did winning and being the best ever matter.  And, from that point forward, online multiplayer games became less about having a good time and more about winning and being the best... which led us down the path to hacks/cheats becoming commonplace and the now predominate "winning is everything" attitude.  Basically, I'm blaming the success of Modern Warfare for ruining the fun of online gaming.  There, I've said it.

 

Before MW, I played an online FPS game called "FarCry: Instincts" almost every day for over 5 years.  I don't ever remember more than two or three times during that period where anybody ever even claimed to care who the best player was or even thought about whether they were winning or losing more than anyone else.  And those handful of whiny individuals were never around for very long to annoy the rest of us.  The end of every match was just a round of "Good game, that was awesome fun and hilarious when..." and then "Let's get the next match started."

 

Eh, so those days may be gone... but any steps taken to reduce the amount that players care about their stats and winning is a BIG step towards a healthier, happier Hawken community.


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To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#23
Jerv

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Hm, afaik the win bonus was 50 HC already (unless someone changed the values sometime after May 2014).

 

ec0ae86511e0d661568d51e9509af383.png

 

Yes, but you got 30 HC on a loss as a participation/consolation "prize", and since 50-30=20, wins got you 20 (twenty) HC more than a loss.

 

 

 

Wins shouldn't be rewarded? Isn't that, like, counter to why most people play video games in the first place? There's going to be your sore winners no matter what, but if wins aren't rewarded then I now some players simply won't care any more.

 

This game is largely competitive in varying degrees. A small win bonus is fine as is. The Daily win bonus, well, I think that arguably it has its place. But if you remove it basically say that players who *do* want to put in effort to win but aren't pricks about it, well... their effort is pointless in wanting to build up funds to get HC.

 

Many games base their rewards more on personal performance; damage, kills, base captures, and the like. Doing all of those things deserves a reward even if you lose. Then again, doing those things better than the competition will make you win anyways.

 

Conversely, overly rewarding victory tends to lead to toxicity as players start blaming others for losses, belittling those who don't perform as well, and just generally violating Wheaton's Law. Paradoxically, it also punishes the skilled players by making their rewards independent of personal performance to the extent that many people won't even try any more. If I had an HC for every time I have just given up with the thought, "I don't care because I get paid the same either way", I'd have every mech in the game, all fully upgraded.

 

Winning should be secondary though. I know, you competitive types will flame me for that, but hear me out. If you play your heart out and rack up a nice KDR, ROFLstomp the enemy team, and still walk away with a loss because one of your teammates AFK'd or something, would you rather be rewarded for your personal success, or punished for your team's failure? If you're competitive, you will already be doing all the things it takes to win anyways.

 

As for the "Daily win", the way Hawken does it seems more of a loyalty bonus; a reward for playing a couple battles of each type every day. However, it also makes up at least half of the earnings for those who play less than five hours a day. Still, having a flat bonus instead of a multiplier like many games do is nice in that usually the first win is a battle where you aren't warmed up yet. In WoT, there's been many times where my "Daily double" earned me less than any other battle that session.


Edited by Jerv, 22 April 2015 - 05:51 PM.

Still recovering from a neurological incident, spent a couple months learning how to walk without a cane,

figured I'd try a fast-paced game to see if I could get my reflexes back to where they were.

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#24
Panzermanathod

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Well, hey, usually I try to get a win in but, yeah, I get paid win or lose so I don't fret a loss in most cases.

 

And payment for personal skill is fine by me. But as I said, a small win bonus is fine. There will still be the overly competitive until Hawken stops being a competitive game.



#25
thirtysix

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When you have enough hours in the game (>500) I don't think any of that matters any more... honestly I don't even look, it's a non-issue.

Play to have fun, play till your fingers bleed... just play :)


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#26
EM1O

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it's like stressing over jacking up your MMR. forget it. enjoy the game. Why not just limit it to linking HC earning to your XP and "achievements" in-game? It's like getting paid for a good job--incentive. the better the job, the higher the pay--even if you lose.

 

i looked up and Holy Crappicus, where'd that 20k HC come from?

look again, 30k HC. ok. fine, buy a third Vanguard and a monster load of stuff (that I'll prolly never use).

hmm. at 25k again already. gawd. Should I buy a fourth G2 Raider? A third Berzerker? Wat?

oh well...no big deal...

Launch!

Rock On!

:)


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"...oh great Itzamna, you shall know Us by the trail of Dead."





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