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What was the point of reducing cusomization?

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#1
Morquedeas

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So I've been watching a bit of Hyginos' analysis video, seeing all the stuff and what not.

 

Besides all the G2 mechs, the only "new" mechs will be the dual seeker, the dual miniflak, dual eoc, and dual b3ar gun.

 

What was the point of taking away alternate weapons if they aren't even using them to make "new" mech weapon combinations?  Those four mechs could have been made without removing alternate weapons and still have been "fine." 

 

And in addition we have only 2 items (called it) that are locked, and 2 internals that are locked as well.

 

Reducing customization is usually a bad thing in games, and if the reasoning is that its easier to balance, that's a cheap excuse.

 

So far I'm pretty disappointing with the direction things have gone.

 

P.S. Also a bit unrelated but I'm not a fan of dual primaries, its kind of a cheap way of making mechs, massively reduces versatility, and gets boring pretty fast.  You effectively have one gun, regardless of the difference in output.


Edited by Morquedeas, 01 July 2016 - 05:26 PM.

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#2
WmMoneyFrmMissouri

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I believe the point was to royally piss everyone off.

Edited by WmMoneyFrmMissouri, 01 July 2016 - 05:27 PM.

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#3
americanbrit14

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I believe the point was to royally piss everyone off.

i mean its done literally nothing else


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#4
Shade__

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So people stop complaining about AC and EMP being OP and shet... ORRRRRRRR because they think that console players are so stupid they can't even figure out how to customize a mech.


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#5
Str8Jacket223

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I imagine it was to reinforce the feeling of each mech being tailored for certain playstyles and situations. Plus to give the appearance of more content by splitting everything into seperate mechs while simultaneously giving the players more to grind for to artificially fluff the game.

Pretty terrible idea but I get why they are doing it.

Edit for spelling

Edited by Str8Jacket223, 01 July 2016 - 05:51 PM.

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#6
WmMoneyFrmMissouri

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So people stop complaining about AC and EMP being OP and shet... ORRRRRRRR because they think that console players are so stupid they can't even figure out how to customize a mech.


Wait until they figure out orb lord internals.... Then there will be tears
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#7
crockrocket

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Wait until they figure out orb lord internals.... Then there will be tears


Jokes, can't customize internals.
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#8
TheFrostnessMonster

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It's kind of sad that with all the combined knowledge from long-standing community members, as well as new people from the first Steam release, they choose to completely ignore every suggestion the community has and go with what they think is good, and not listening to the players.

 

I guess this is the second-to-last nail in the HAWKEN coffin, sadly.  I was getting my hopes up.


Edited by TheFrostnessMonster, 01 July 2016 - 06:39 PM.

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#9
Nightfirebolt

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I immediately spent $10 US the exact moment I saw that they had released the Hon chassis.

 

I would've done it again and again for every new chassis they released until I ran out of mechs to put them on.

 

Alas, now I guess I'll be hanging onto my money instead.  :rolleyes:



#10
nepacaka

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The main point which i see, making each mech as his own role. like only brawler now has orb-lord, gren is supress, inci is a support etc, to making it more like "teamplay". it is my own vision of RLD concept. if we just forgot about p2w, lies, g2 mechs, and other sh!t for a second, and thinking only about numebers, mechs, and their abilities.
they delete item custom, i.e. now only some mech have emp, or shield. whole team now can't bring and spam shields and emp'd on AA every seconds. because only brawler now have shields, and only raider can counter his with EMP. it is conception more like rock-paper-scissors. it is actually not so bad in general.
scout and gren now use scannres. scout can put it behand enemy team and you team can see what enemy do (ie scouting), grenadier use scanner to iprove his own visible, and use rev-ricochets to spam it in enemy, Infil now truly disruptor mech to confuse enemies. etc. 

also, in current hawken we use only 4-5 items, it is - shield, scanner, orb, emp, det. because all other ites are very situationely and actually is...useless sh!t. tell me please, who use ISM? only noobs who don't buy EMP because don't have HC. or, why we need blockade? (except roofing and broke map borders? :D) to make some jockes on frontline? Who use HE grenade? nobody.
Now all mech use many combinations of item in fight. it is actually not bad. it is all about vaiety (and yes, i already see a team based on 6 raiders because it have EMP :D, but it is actually another problem, because game not restricted team with 2A 2B 2C algorythm)

the same logic with internal, cuz we always use the same loadouts. just because this combinations makes our any mech more stronger. and it mostly by defensive play.


Edited by nepacaka, 02 July 2016 - 12:35 AM.

Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#11
Morquedeas

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nepacaka, I strongly diagree with your opinion. I the ideas you are describing may work for other games (overwatch comes to mind), but I'd rather not see them in Hawken. Making mechs more niche and giving them specific roles is a bad idea for this type of game. Roles lead to lineups, and people should be able to play what they want, and fight evenly against any mech while in any mech. The last thing I want to hear while playing Hawken is "omg no tank gg" or whatever. We all know how bad of an idea the tech was, we don't need more of that. As for the items, the issue is balancing them, not making them exclusive to certain mechs. With a little bit of change many items would have been viable, now we have people choosing mechs specifically for a particular item instead of letting people bring what they want. And we won't even see some of the items at all anymore.
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#12
-Tj-

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In my view, removing the ability to customize loadouts must've been a pretty hard decision for the devs to make, primarily because it could have been another source of income for them, as they potentially are now. Players who wanted to pay real money to customize their loadouts the way they like without having to grind their way up to the required amount of HC is something I could see a lot of players doing. Maybe not us here, but I can see a lot of console players doing so. While I don't agree with a lot of the decisions made for the new "Howken," I'm interested to see how this will pan out.


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#13
Hyginos

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Here's another thing that gets me:

 

No item customization means that I don't get to decide which item is on which key unless I flip my keybindings every time I change mechs.


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#14
WmMoneyFrmMissouri

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So I played s little last night in a buddy's Xbox. I hate the Controller layout. It feels counter intuitive to what you are used to from other fps. I also experienced lag, which I've never had on a console. Overall, I hope down the line they will let you rebind the controller it was a really bad experience for me. Good to see a lot of players going at it though, hopefully there will be some migration to pc from some of these robros.

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#15
DieselCat

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I'm in agreement with all here.....Ran out of likes, guess they reduced that too....


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#16
Proctor

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Will the Berserker only be allowed the submachine gun now and not the point D Vulcan?

#17
Morquedeas

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Presumably, yes.  They did say somewhere that alternate weapons would return at a later time, though this could be a while from now and they could in theory change which weapons are chosen.

 

I think their backpedaling on the customization is pretty funny, but God, how did they not see the community response coming?

 

 

I'm also hoping the just hold off on the PC re-release until they've at least re-implemented mech customization. At present, the PC version of the game is vastly superior to what the consoles have.


Edited by Morquedeas, 04 July 2016 - 04:48 PM.

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#18
ARCH3TYP3

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Will the Berserker only be allowed the submachine gun now and not the point D Vulcan?

 

Presumably, yes.  They did say somewhere that alternate weapons would return at a later time, though this could be a while from now and they could in theory change which weapons are chosen.

 

 

https://community.pl...-tiggs/?p=96526


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#19
StubbornPuppet

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I have a feeling that the current reduced customization was an initial sacrifice based on complications with the UI - and having the guy who did the UI die before his work was finished had to have really put a crimp on what could be done in time for release.  Beyond that, I also expect that customizing a mech will soonTM become something players can pay real money to unlock.


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#20
xXHadronCutterXx

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Out of the loop, are these changes coming to PC? (only one primary, fixed internals etc.)



#21
crockrocket

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Out of the loop, are these changes coming to PC? (only one primary, fixed internals etc.)

 

Yes? And soonTM


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Player Retention & Howken

 

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[14:32] <Crafty> hawken is unlike anything Ive played

 

 


#22
xXHadronCutterXx

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Yes? And soonTM

 

Fuuuuuuuck that.



#23
WmMoneyFrmMissouri

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Yes? And soonTM


I guess the short term solution to this is to log in today, right now and play the hell out of the pc version while you can in its current form.... You know I will be. #RAIDEROSITYprevails!2016
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#24
OmegaNull

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The weapon backends were messed up and you couldn't adjust weapons at all without affected all other mechs with them. 


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#25
6ixxer

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I have a feeling that the current reduced customization was an initial sacrifice based on complications with the UI - and having the guy who did the UI die before his work was finished had to have really put a crimp on what could be done in time for release.  Beyond that, I also expect that customizing a mech will soonTM become something players can pay real money to unlock.

 

Tiggs mentioned customization of internals for Console is broken. They want customizations to return.

 

https://community.pl...ion/#entry96369

https://community.pl...gs/#entry96273 


Edited by 6ixxer, 05 July 2016 - 08:32 PM.


#26
Pelanthoris

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Told you so

These are not the changes we (at least not me) waited for :confused:

Spoiler


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#27
xXHadronCutterXx

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The weapon backends were messed up and you couldn't adjust weapons at all without affected all other mechs with them. 

 

That is like the easiest of all problems to fix. Each mech has its own variant of the same weapon, just with different stats to be appropriate for the respective mech. Could slightly edit the model/textures so the weapons don't look identical if it would bother people that much. This is litterally what they did for G2 mechs. I don't see this as a valid reason.


Edited by xXHadronCutterXx, 06 July 2016 - 03:57 AM.


#28
ARCH3TYP3

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Tiggs mentioned customization of internals for Console is broken. They want customizations to return.
 
https://community.pl...ion/#entry96369
https://community.pl...gs/#entry96273 

Again, I feel I must mention that Tiggs has never explicitly defined "customizations".
In my post in the "click bait" thread, I link to the q&a thread, where it seems that the devs may or may not include weapons and internals under the "customizations" umbrella.

Posted from my phone in a hurry.

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#29
OmegaNull

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That is like the easiest of all problems to fix. Each mech has its own variant of the same weapon, just with different stats to be appropriate for the respective mech. Could slightly edit the model/textures so the weapons don't look identical if it would bother people that much. This is litterally what they did for G2 mechs. I don't see this as a valid reason.

If you knew how broken the database structure was for the weapons, then you would understand. Creating a "variant" of each weapon will only further complicat e things on the dev end. Additonally, you would have to make the weapons different, make sure animations are correct, update textures, models and test extensively to make sure said item isn't broken (in turns of it working, not overpowered). 


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#30
xXHadronCutterXx

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If you knew how broken the database structure was for the weapons, then you would understand. Creating a "variant" of each weapon will only further complicat e things on the dev end. Additonally, you would have to make the weapons different, make sure animations are correct, update textures, models and test extensively to make sure said item isn't broken (in turns of it working, not overpowered). 

 

Have they not considered, you know, actually fixing the database? And if it's that broken start from scratch and do it right this time?



#31
Silverfire

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Have they not considered, you know, actually fixing the database? And if it's that broken start from scratch and do it right this time?

That's apparently what they've done. Readding customization with an improved internal system is hopefully the next step.

And it's not that easy, nor is it easier to start from scratch, afaik.

Edited by Silverfire, 07 July 2016 - 04:04 AM.

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#32
KejiGoto

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That's apparently what they've done. Readding customization with an improved internal system is hopefully the next step.

And it's not that easy, nor is it easier to start from scratch, afaik.

Want to know what else isn't easy? Fixing a bad first impression because you released your game without a major component like customization in it, something the game was known for before and still remains in the PC version leaving console players to wonder why they don't have that.

First impressions, you only get one.


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#33
tropt

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i wish they'd customize the maps, reduce the sticky bits and improve the level design for the "new" air meta they introduced; before re-releasing on consoles, tweaking the UI and mech loadouts.



#34
StubbornPuppet

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Want to know what else isn't easy? Fixing a bad first impression because you released your game without a major component like customization in it, something the game was known for before and still remains in the PC version leaving console players to wonder why they don't have that.

First impressions, you only get one.

 

A bigger truth has never been spoken, or repeated.

 

And some of the key elements of a "first impression" in a video game are:

  • graphics
  • control
  • design

From what I've been hearing, new Xbox One players first impressions of this game are:

  • outdated graphics and very slow detail draw
  • bad control scheme with no alternate options or button assignment.
  • UI looks cheap
  • Maps are poorly designed.
  • Very little in the way of mech customization

Well, I understand that the graphics working on Xbox One at all is a bit of a miracle.  And the maps are what they are - we've been living with them for years now.

 

But, the controller issue, customization and UI issues were totally within ReLoaded and 505 games power to give a "no go" call on.  It's so unfortunate that game developers have to report to accountants, shareholders and other executive twats who only understand deadlines and charts.


Edited by StubbornPuppet, 07 July 2016 - 10:22 AM.

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