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Slug SS vs. Slug Reaper, a brief damage potential over time analysis

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#1
Kopra

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I haven't seen a Reaper vs. SS thread in some time so let's open those wounds once again. With a colorful spreadsheet.

 

I took into account the situations:

1) The player constantly has things to shoot at,

2) The player minimizes the exposure time to stay alive, shooting only when both weapons are ready (but still has things to shoot at)

3) The  "real" (but still completely detached) situation where the player mixes things up and combines sustained and burst playstyles when it's suitable (just a raw average between 1 and 2)

4) Whether the SS uses Power Shot at t = 0

 

 

Note: the negative values in the juicy green fields are a result of "SS minus Reaper damage". 

 

 

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Conclusions:

 

- The Sharpshooter dominates the initiative

 

- The Reaper is pretty good if you can manage to get the second KE-Sabot in 1.85 seconds after your first one

 

- The Sharpshooter, if gets to shoot the second Sabot at 3 seconds, becomes king again

 

- The Reaper may be more suitable for corner poking with quick scopes (esp. when you take into account KE-Sabot's 150ms accuracy delay vs. Sabot's 300ms)

 

- Both have the same TTK vs: Tech, Infil, Scout, Predator, Raider and Brawler (not taking internals or healing into account) when fighting with sustained style

 

- ???????? maby reaper not 2 bad after al? ??+ stil need mor electrolyts 

 

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#2
Guns_N_Rozer

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the advantage of Reaper is Mobility with no scope in close (in a certain distance ) 

the disadvance of Reaper is the HP

 

the advantage of SS is HP and the ability 

the disadvance of SS is mobility and for slug u need to scope for tune aim 

 

but they both have different play style and move , than u can survive .

Sabot+Slug in the same time is awesome for Reaper .

 

 

thanks kopra for the awesome data



#3
Silent_

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Oh boy, certain someone has been bored while having pc problems.


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#4
JackVandal

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i generally find with the more teamwork, the better the ss is, if teamwork is less than the opponents, then reaper is better, due to its ability to get out of a bad situation. 


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#5
CounterlogicMan

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The Circle of Several Sabots approves of this honorable research Kopra. Your power shot is in the mail.

 

Reaper isn't bad, its major pitfall is its ability which is only useful sometimes with am-sar and with rpr. Kopra's data really shows how well SS and reaper are balanced. Reaper is much better at dealing damage consistently over time, while the SS damage is more effective in bursts over intervals of time. Ranged sustain lending itself more to mobility and less hp, and ranged burst lending itself to more hp and less mobility. Thanks for the data Kopra!

 

i generally find with the more teamwork, the better the ss is, if teamwork is less than the opponents, then reaper is better, due to its ability to get out of a bad situation. 

 

I personally find the opposite to be true. The reaper may be more survivable yes. But if your team is at a teamwork disadvantage, you need to be looking to create mismatches, and put out enough raw damage to put them into disarray. I find the SS to be better at this due to higher burst and power shot. You can wheel around a corner or jump up and land a much more devastating shot/killing blow than the reaper can. The SS can duck out after taking a few hits and still have enough hp to have a chance against any pursuing A classes. Reaper has less hp so if the enemy team has better teamwork you are typically under more pressure. Pressure = damage and reaper doesn't handle damage well compared to SS.

 

That being said, Reaper is still a good mech. It is a great complement to an SS on maps like Frontline, Bunker, and Last Eco. It can also be pretty effective when facing a team with no SS, as it adds a lot of versatility beyond just being a light sniper. But if you need a dedicated sniper mech or someone to counter snipe an SS. I suggest going with the SS over reaper. 

 

 

 

the disadvance of SS is mobility and for slug u need to scope for tune aim 

 

 

You don't need to scope with SS to get/be ~100% accruacy with slug. 

 

 

Counterlogicman,

Arch Duke of Axe-Attack,

Member of ~The Circle of Several Sabots ~


Edited by CounterlogicMan, 22 November 2015 - 12:38 PM.

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#6
MomOw

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the reaper is one of the few mech I don't have a KD >1 with it, I really don't know how you get the kills beside superman aiming or playing like a [insert insult] and steal kills. BTW I don't know where are the sniper spots on most maps.

 

There are some really good players with reapers but not that much, so I guess it's a little underpowered with actual balance. The higher burst of the SS make it a more efficient finisher (well 170dmg with slug+Sabot is more than just finishing mechs).


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#7
JeffMagnum

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Imo the major advantage SS has over Reaper is its effectiveness and versatility against A-Classes

 

Possible damage with two windows of exposure if both weapons are up in SS:

 

2x unscoped Slug+Sabot=290

1x unscoped Slug+Sabot and 1x scoped Slug+Sabot=315

1x unscoped Slug+Sabot PS and 1x unscoped Slug+Sabot=326.25

2x scoped Slug+Sabot=340

1x unscoped Slug+Sabot PS and 1x scoped Slug+Sabot=351.25

1x scoped Slug+Sabot PS and 1x scoped Slug+Sabot=382.5

 

Possible damage with two windows of exposure if both weapons are up in Reaper:

 

2x unscoped Slug+KE=234

1x scoped Slug+KE and 1x unscoped Slug+KE=252

2x scoped Slug+KE=270

 

 

A-Class armor values:

Technician=315

Scout=320

Infiltrator=330

Reaper=350

Berserker=355

 


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#8
brackets

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As previously the biggest proponent of buffing the Reaper's damage, I feel the need to chime in. So here are some effective DPS calculations for the Reaper and Sharpshooter using both the Slug rifle and the AM-SAR assuming constant fire, perfect accuracy, and always scoped.

Spoiler

 

Contrary to my previous claims, the Reaper and Sharpshooter's potential damage output is actually remarkably consistent over arbitrarily long times. Powershot creates a discrepancy, however this should be fixed by changing the Reaper's ability, not the KE-Sabot's damage output.

 

Something interesting to note: the Reaper overheats before the Sharpshooter when using the Slug rifle, but it overheats after the Sharpshooter when using the AM-SAR. This is because some heat is dissipated in the long duration between each Slug rifle shot, but not in the short duration between each AM-SAR shot.


Edited by brackets, 22 November 2015 - 08:40 PM.


#9
Rainbow_Sheep

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Can we have a damage/time double line graph for SS/Reaper?

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#10
jjm1

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The Reaper should have Power-Shot, and Power-Shot should have 100% un-scoped accuracy for both Reaper and SS.

 

That's one way to add value to the Reaper's ability. - if you don't mind two mechs with the same ability, I don't think I do in this case.



#11
Kopra

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Can we have a damage/time double line graph for SS/Reaper?

 

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#12
cavefishes

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-graph snip-

 

Don't want to be a fuzzy bunny, but as someone who's colorblind those two shades of green and red are pretty much indistinguishable. Same thing with your two shades of green in the initial spreadsheet. Do you think you could replace one of the colors with blue or something?

 

(Also, having the color key be a thin line instead of a filled box makes it super hard to identify which is which)


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