Programmable mouse
#1
Posted 08 April 2015 - 10:23 PM
What is the common opinion about this ? Is this somehow considered cheating because it helps me be more accurate with semi-automatic weapons, all i have to do is aim at the enemy and hold the button down instead of clicking it again for each individual shot, this makes it easier to hit people because my aim stays more accurate as opposed to actually clicking.


#2
Posted 08 April 2015 - 10:27 PM
I don't think this is cheating, I for one experimented with my programmable mouse too. Mechs like the sharpshooter and reaper have a zoom function which not only increases accuracy, but also damage. In this case, I took the time to zoom, roughly 0.4 seconds if I remember correctly and made it so my weapons would fire and unzoom.
This was practically quick-scoping in a sense.
#3
Posted 08 April 2015 - 10:42 PM
IIRC, this came up on the cockpit a while ago and it was considered to be cheese at the very least.
I'd have to check the twitch archives to find the broadcast in question to be sure what the overall opinion was.
Test dummy for science, Follower of Wheatons Law, usually hanging around #hawkenscrim and #spawn, occasional poster of YouTube videos and streaming. Can also be found on twitter
#4
Posted 08 April 2015 - 10:47 PM
- DisorderlyMechanic likes this
Technician | Fear the Beam | Support
Welcome to the End of Days
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]
Smoke this!
#5
Posted 08 April 2015 - 11:10 PM
I myself would say it is nothing else than using the product itself. You do not have a gameplay advantage in damage or possibilities.
That's just like having a low end and a high end computer. Playing Hawken with 20 FPS or with 120 FPS is indeed a difference. But there is only one thing I can say to the 20 FPS players:
"How sad, poor you."
Hardware has nothing to do with cheating just because you have the better equipment. Otherwise the devs had to force us to just have a maximum amount of FPS, have the exact same graphic settings (including colour sheme of your monitor), you may not have 110° FOV but forced to have 90° and ofcourse the whole thing changes if a new palyers requiers his lwoest settings to be the force standart as it would be otherwise an unfair gameplay advantage.
Oh, don't forget ping issue, if one guy has 500ms ping, the server will automatically delay messages to every player in the room. Everyone plays at 500ms and only if that is archieved, it is fair play.
- M3CH47 likes this
- Sitting next to the sound box in Last Eco -
#6
Posted 08 April 2015 - 11:13 PM
I myself would say it is nothing else than using the product itself. You do not have a gameplay advantage in damage or possibilities.
That's just like having a low end and a high end computer. Playing Hawken with 20 FPS or with 120 FPS is indeed a difference. But there is only one thing I can say to the 20 FPS players:
"How sad, poor you."
Hardware has nothing to do with cheating just because you have the better equipment. Otherwise the devs had to force us to just have a maximum amount of FPS, have the exact same graphic settings (including colour sheme of your monitor), you may not have 110° FOV but forced to have 90° and ofcourse the whole thing changes if a new palyers requiers his lwoest settings to be the force standart as it would be otherwise an unfair gameplay advantage.
Oh, don't forget ping issue, if one guy has 500ms ping, the server will automatically delay messages to every player in the room. Everyone plays at 500ms and only if that is archieved, it is fair play.
It's not the hardware that allows it. It's the software that does. Your hand acts and moves differently when you have to hold or repeatedly press a button. This would remove that. So... Good try though.
Technician | Fear the Beam | Support
Welcome to the End of Days
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]
Smoke this!
#7
Posted 08 April 2015 - 11:19 PM
It's not the hardware that allows it. It's the software that does. Your hand acts and moves differently when you have to hold or repeatedly press a button. This would remove that. So... Good try though.
Yes ofcourse, it is just a question of how you see it. You have two additional buttons on your mouse and for obvious reasons you have to tell them what to do. That's nothign else than installing drivers.
Same with my GPU. Without it, I would not be able to paly on the best graphics settings or a decent resolution. I install drivers so I can play on the best visual settings. Am I a hacker now because I have a visual booster software?
- Sitting next to the sound box in Last Eco -
#8
Posted 08 April 2015 - 11:20 PM
My clicking index finger got raped using the am-sar on the reaper. Actually my joint is actually suffering from the insane clicking all the time. I would definately advice the devs to have the am-sar fire continued when holding the mouse button. There is absolutely no need to make this weapon so demanding on the physical body ^^.
And as a sidenote, many mouse buttons can be programmed easily to repeat fire. Of course my razer hasnt enough buttons to do that properly without losing other much required functionality. So, overal I wouldnt consider it cheating tbh..
Edited by opicr0n, 08 April 2015 - 11:22 PM.
KOBALT DEFENCE REGIMENT
...and let slip the dogs of war...





#9
Posted 09 April 2015 - 12:21 AM
My clicking index finger got raped using the am-sar on the reaper. Actually my joint is actually suffering from the insane clicking all the time. I would definately advice the devs to have the am-sar fire continued when holding the mouse button. There is absolutely no need to make this weapon so demanding on the physical body ^^.
Leave the AM-Sar semi-automatic alone. It had acutally sense when there was recoil. But ofcourse, just hold LMB for damage is the current meta. No recoil, no heat, no inaccuracy when dodging/flying.
That's why there is no need for keeping the AM-Sar semi-automatic. But let it as it is, otherwise it had zero difference to the Hawkins RPR except fire rate. The DPS is more or less the same.
- Sitting next to the sound box in Last Eco -
#10
Posted 09 April 2015 - 02:26 AM
Honestly not a fan of that. For the Reaper it is a game changer. I wouldn´t call it cheating but i would let out some "Grrrrr"´s and "Whyyyyy"´s in chat. You know me. I wouldn´t call it cheating however...if that´s the real question.
Edit: I might call it cheating in the heat of the moment. My apologies in advance. You might now that from me as well. But i have seen others using it, so...well it´s on you then. There are times when my chat should be ignored.
Edit 2: @FakeName. I am NOT calling you a cheater here, but thats pretty much the same argument i heard from actual cheaters "Why aren´t you downloading the cheat as well?" It´s a thin line. Worth the discussion at least.
Edited by Aelita, 09 April 2015 - 02:37 AM.
#11
Posted 09 April 2015 - 02:51 AM
Yes ofcourse, it is just a question of how you see it. You have two additional buttons on your mouse and for obvious reasons you have to tell them what to do. That's nothign else than installing drivers.
Same with my GPU. Without it, I would not be able to paly on the best graphics settings or a decent resolution. I install drivers so I can play on the best visual settings. Am I a hacker now because I have a visual booster software?
Your drivers don't assist you in playing. They allow you to play. Very different. The SOFTWARE that allows you to set up macros, however, may help you excel at the game and that's the line that, in the agreement we all signed in which it states that we will not yse ANY 3rd party software that manipulates gameplay or may give you an unfare advantage, is crossed. ANY.
Technician | Fear the Beam | Support
Welcome to the End of Days
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]
Smoke this!
#12
Posted 09 April 2015 - 03:12 AM
However one could argue that based on the objections here, teamspeak could be considered a 'game-experience changing' third party software too.
- CrimsonKaim, Kopra and Ninja_Goat like this


#13
Posted 09 April 2015 - 03:15 AM
Your drivers don't assist you in playing. They allow you to play. Very different. The SOFTWARE that allows you to set up macros, however, may help you excel at the game and that's the line that, in the agreement we all signed in which it states that we will not yse ANY 3rd party software that manipulates gameplay or may give you an unfare advantage, is crossed. ANY.
Okey another example. How do you compare apples and oranges? What would you say if I use my Joystick now?
It has around 7 buttons completely customizeable. I can activate my ability, dodge, fly, shoot, etc. with it.
You don't get abnormal advantages with your hardware, it is just a customization thing.
Cheating on the other hand gives you abnormal advantage. For example speed boost you will never be able to get within the normal game.
Aimbot is not neccessarily a cheat, but it gives you an advantage that other players are not able to get playing the normal game.
Mouse buttons will not give you any unfair advantage. It's like activating your ability on [P] for example instead of [F].
You have enough buttons on your keyboard, don't tell me adding 2 more is an unfair advantage. Otherwise I would have to sell my keyboard because I can play and stop music on it, just like I can adjust the volume. Oh, and 5 macros ofcourse as well as a Numpad.
- Sitting next to the sound box in Last Eco -
#14
Posted 09 April 2015 - 03:24 AM
Okey another example. How do you compare apples and oranges? What would you say if I use my Joystick now?
It has around 7 buttons completely customizeable. I can activate my ability, dodge, fly, shoot, etc. with it.
You don't get abnormal advantages with your hardware, it is just a customization thing.
Cheating on the other hand gives you abnormal advantage. For example speed boost you will never be able to get within the normal game.
Aimbot is not neccessarily a cheat, but it gives you an advantage that other players are not able to get playing the normal game.
Mouse buttons will not give you any unfair advantage. It's like activating your ability on [P] for example instead of [F].
You have enough buttons on your keyboard, don't tell me adding 2 more is an unfair advantage. Otherwise I would have to sell my keyboard because I can play and stop music on it, just like I can adjust the volume. Oh, and 5 macros ofcourse as well as a Numpad.
You're not getting it. It's not about mapping. It's about using SOFTWARE to do things for you such as aim or fire for you.
Technician | Fear the Beam | Support
Welcome to the End of Days
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]
Smoke this!
#15
Posted 09 April 2015 - 03:27 AM
You're not getting it. It's not about mapping. It's about using SOFTWARE to do things for you such as aim or fire for you.
The programmable mouse neither does the one nor the other. So it is perfectly fine according to your argumentation.
Edited by FakeName, 09 April 2015 - 03:27 AM.
- M3CH47 likes this
- Sitting next to the sound box in Last Eco -
#16
Posted 09 April 2015 - 03:29 AM
The programmable mouse neither does the one nor the other. So it is perfectly fine according to your argumentation.[/quote]
Wrong. The OP specifically asked if they could program their mouse to fire there weapon continuously for them.
Here. I quoted it for you in case you didn't understand what was being asked.
"LaurenEmily" post="14935" timestamp="1428560630"], for example it could be used to keep LMB held down without actually having to hold it etc.[/quote]
Edited by SaturdayGhede, 09 April 2015 - 03:35 AM.
Technician | Fear the Beam | Support
Welcome to the End of Days
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]
Smoke this!
#17
Posted 09 April 2015 - 03:32 AM
Wrong. The OP specifically asked if they could program their mouse to fire there weapon continuously for them.
Well if you add 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1=9 or just 9*1=9. The result is the same. The fire rate of the weapon is not increased and the damage remains at the same amount as well.
I really don't get your problem, as there is not any problem ingame. And everything outside the game does not matter and is not even our business.
- M3CH47 likes this
- Sitting next to the sound box in Last Eco -
#18
Posted 09 April 2015 - 03:32 AM
You don't have to go Rambo on your mouse. I hardly move my hand or mouse when i fire. There is no software "aiming" for you, except aimbots. No mouse will do the hard work for you. Use what you got to stay on top! Hardware, haxed ini files, mouse with 432 buttons, keyboard with fancy display & 20 programmable buttons. Everything except aimbot software/hax is ok in my book.
If you don't got the skill, you can't do fuzzy bunny with it either way. True story.
- opicr0n likes this
<3 BLITZ | CEREBRAL PILOTS | BONK BONK
#19
Posted 09 April 2015 - 03:33 AM
- opicr0n and CrimsonKaim like this


#20
Posted 09 April 2015 - 03:36 AM
To clarify: the mouse does no aiming for me, the mouse does not really do shooting for me either, it saves my fingers the stress of continuously tapping and in turn the mouse gets less raped. I still need to press a button when i want to shoot.
But you did say in your OP that not having to hold the button would help you aim better.
Technician | Fear the Beam | Support
Welcome to the End of Days
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]
Smoke this!
#21
Posted 09 April 2015 - 03:41 AM
But you did say in your OP that not having to hold the button would help you aim better.
It helps me maintain my crosshair on the enemy better. I can just focus on aiming while holding the thumb button down and it helps to keep my hand movement more precise, every time i would do a normal mouse click it would also move the mouse slightly, disturbing the aim. I hope i am explaining this clearly enough.


#22
Posted 09 April 2015 - 03:41 AM
Well if you add 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1=9 or just 9*1=9. The result is the same. The fire rate of the weapon is not increased and the damage remains at the same amount as well.
I really don't get your problem, as there is not any problem ingame. And everything outside the game does not matter and is not even our business.
You don't read anything before you start typing do you? You have an opinion and no mateer what is substantiated as gainst it you continue on. Your hand reacts differently when you have to hold down or continuously press a button. The OP stated in the original post that by programing the mouse it would help them aim. Stop tying your ego to your opinion. Please and thank you.
- Kopra likes this
Technician | Fear the Beam | Support
Welcome to the End of Days
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]
Smoke this!
#24
Posted 09 April 2015 - 03:47 AM
If someone wants to make AM-SAR automatic because manually clicking each time strains their joints or make it so that you don't have to keep your fingers pressed to fire a weapon continuously, let them. The difference is unnoticeable in the receiving party while the scripter can evade carpal tunnel syndrome.
The scripts people make don't suddenly become aimbots or let them fire faster, it's just QOL and having a better gaming rig and/or connection has more impact on your performance.
Of course, you can make chat scripts for encouraging to take the AA, go for EU, some specific silo or a cute catchphrase. Since a human can't possibly type that fast, having a much higher information per second index, it's so unfair, ban chat macros! /s
#25
Posted 09 April 2015 - 03:49 AM
It helps me maintain my crosshair on the enemy better. I can just focus on aiming while holding the thumb button down and it helps to keep my hand movement more precise, every time i would do a normal mouse click it would also move the mouse slightly, disturbing the aim. I hope i am explaining this clearly enough.
Yes. That's what I'm saying. It allows you to not move your hand, in turn, giving you the advantage of aiming more precisely. It removes a fundemental short coming.
Technician | Fear the Beam | Support
Welcome to the End of Days
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]
Smoke this!
#26
Posted 09 April 2015 - 04:04 AM
I consider it below the realm of FairPlay .
Somewhere between third party macro utilities and scripting is the slope of cheese at the bottom of which lies straight up cheating.
The am-sar is intended to be semi- auto, scoping is intended to be a key function separate from firing.
Automating either compromises the fair contest of skill for those that do not use third party utilities to short out the skill or dexterity necessary to play it as designed.
I have less respect for the "skill" of a player fully automating a semi auto, or binding scope to fire using third party macro utilities.
It is not tolerated in competitive fps leagues.
EOC Raider, Bolt Pred, Rev Gl Gren, EOC Infil, All the Reapers, Father, Expert in Guitar Kung Fu, and Founder of TPG Hawken
#27
Posted 09 April 2015 - 04:07 AM
Hi Eli, TL:DR it's not cheating.
You made a great point about Teamspeak. That IS a game changer, as good co-ordinated teamwork will usually beat higher individual skill.
A friend of mine has used a macro on their Reaper Amsar for ages that makes it fire continuously by holding the button down instead of click click clicking. That's not cheating either, and actually is a potential health benefit as Opicron stated. It didn't made my friend a better pilot or OP in anyway. He got better by learning movement and decision making from better pilots (as we all did).
You still have to aim, and manage you're heat, and you're positioning and other skill stuff. Firing an Amsar 0.3 seconds faster ain't a factor here.
Aimbots are cheating, so are wall hacks as they artificially increase skill by using methods not available to other players.
Kopra beat me to it, but a Macro automates a manually available action, just into a more efficient, and maybe very slightly faster action.
That said SaturdayGhede does have a valid point, and made it eloquently, they are a grey area open to a level of interpretation.
For the record I was in a clan called TAW which has a strict zero tolerance policy on cheating, and macros were not considered cheating.
The previous Hawken Devs also stated Macro's were not cheating. I find in hard to believe Reloaded would have a different view either.
After all Teamspeak would then have to be classed as cheating, and not just because VOIP doesn't work in Hawken (yet), but because pilots in TS are co-ordinated Vs a team that aren't, and benefit from a combined tactical knowledge of Hawken and each others abilities.
- opicr0n likes this
#28
Posted 09 April 2015 - 06:15 AM
Hi Eli, TL:DR it's not cheating.
You made a great point about Teamspeak. That IS a game changer, as good co-ordinated teamwork will usually beat higher individual skill.
A friend of mine has used a macro on their Reaper Amsar for ages that makes it fire continuously by holding the button down instead of click click clicking. That's not cheating either, and actually is a potential health benefit as Opicron stated. It didn't made my friend a better pilot or OP in anyway. He got better by learning movement and decision making from better pilots (as we all did).
You still have to aim, and manage you're heat, and you're positioning and other skill stuff. Firing an Amsar 0.3 seconds faster ain't a factor here.
Aimbots are cheating, so are wall hacks as they artificially increase skill by using methods not available to other players.
Kopra beat me to it, but a Macro automates a manually available action, just into a more efficient, and maybe very slightly faster action.
That said SaturdayGhede does have a valid point, and made it eloquently, they are a grey area open to a level of interpretation.
For the record I was in a clan called TAW which has a strict zero tolerance policy on cheating, and macros were not considered cheating.
The previous Hawken Devs also stated Macro's were not cheating. I find in hard to believe Reloaded would have a different view either.
After all Teamspeak would then have to be classed as cheating, and not just because VOIP doesn't work in Hawken (yet), but because pilots in TS are co-ordinated Vs a team that aren't, and benefit from a combined tactical knowledge of Hawken and each others abilities.
Team Speak does not Automate anything you do in game. That's the difference. Mapping things to your mouse or keyboard does not automate them. You still have to do all of the work. Creating a macro that continuously fires for you automates the process. Voice comms are a standard affair in competitive games, thrid party or otherwise because they do not automate anything. We're talking about a computer doing work for you.
Technician | Fear the Beam | Support
Welcome to the End of Days
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]
Smoke this!
#29
Posted 09 April 2015 - 06:20 AM
Mountain out of a molehill. if a mouse has macros, then maybe more or all mice should come with macros. I'm about to buy my 3d mouse, because I've been trying out mice, not satisfied with each. Started with Razer Ouroboros. Good feel, but only 2 thumb buttons.
Then I moved to a Razer Naga Hex, GREAT little gadget I'm using with 6 thumb buttons in a hex shape, so I can jump on items 1, 2, or 3, instantly, not have to move my left hand fingers, not having to scroll my mouse wheel. Instant, pow! But it's a bit smaller than I prefer, and the spacing of the buttons is not optimal.
I have decided to get the Mad Catz Rat MMO mouse, the Rat 7 or 9 are sweet, but, again, only 2 thumb buttons. The MMO solves this issue. when a high end mouse is between $80 - 130 a pop, making mistakes and compromises on hardware selection isn't cheap. But how hardcore a gamer are you?
I haven't used macros yet, no need. I don't use SA Hawkins much. I might, if I needed it. If the hardware lets you do the job, get it, and enjoy it.
KOBALT DEFENCE REGIMENT
[/size]...and let slip the dogs of war...
[/size]




#30
Posted 09 April 2015 - 06:22 AM
Mountain out of a molehill. if a mouse has macros, then maybe more or all mice should come with macros. I'm about to buy my 3d mouse, because I've been trying out mice, not satisfied with each. Started with Razer Ouroboros. Good feel, but only 2 thumb buttons.
Then I moved to a Razer Naga Hex, GREAT little gadget I'm using with 6 thumb buttons in a hex shape, so I can jump on items 1, 2, or 3, instantly, not have to move my left hand fingers, not having to scroll my mouse wheel. Instant, pow! But it's a bit smaller than I prefer, and the spacing of the buttons is not optimal.
I have decided to get the Mad Catz Rat MMO mouse, the Rat 7 or 9 are sweet, but, again, only 2 thumb buttons. The MMO solves this issue. when a high end mouse is between $80 - 130 a pop, making mistakes and compromises on hardware selection isn't cheap. But how hardcore a gamer are you?
I haven't used macros yet, no need. I don't use SA Hawkins much. I might, if I needed it. If the hardware lets you do the job, get it, and enjoy it.
Again, ity's not the HARDWARE allowing you to do anything. It's the software.
Technician | Fear the Beam | Support
Welcome to the End of Days
[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]
Smoke this!
#31
Posted 09 April 2015 - 06:49 AM
My awesome mouse also has software to quickly switch the dpi level in game. This greatly improves my performance as well, cheating ? ![]()
- M3CH47 likes this


#32
Posted 09 April 2015 - 06:51 AM
#33
Posted 09 April 2015 - 06:54 AM
My awesome mouse also has software to quickly switch the dpi level in game. This greatly improves my performance as well, cheating ?
SOFTWARE is the DEVIL1!1!
One should only be able to change one's DPI by using a wooden crank installed to the side! ![]()

- CrimsonKaim, LaurenEmily and Zaxik like this
#34
Posted 09 April 2015 - 06:55 AM
My awesome mouse also has software to quickly switch the dpi level in game. This greatly improves my performance as well, cheating ?
No, just use your mouse already. There is absolutely no reason why a company would produce products whic hare 'illgeal' in games.
- Sitting next to the sound box in Last Eco -
#35
Posted 09 April 2015 - 08:16 AM
Unsportsmanlike, perhaps, but if my understanding is correct and this is simply a turbo click built into the hardware and drivers it is completely unenforceable.
Edited by Hyginos, 09 April 2015 - 08:16 AM.
#36
Posted 09 April 2015 - 10:01 AM
A while back I setup a macro that would quick scope, fire the slug and sabot, then un-scope when playing Reaper. I did much much better when using the macro to the point where it felt like cheating. While the macro didn't do anything I couldn't do manually, it did do it much more reliably and quicker than I could ever pull off. So I stopped using it because it felt like I was cheating. Automating the timing and binding three different keys to one button press is just cheese.
I don't see auto-fire for the AM-SAR the same way because I personally think it is stupid that you have to click so much for that gun, which is the main reason I don't use it.
(I also wish they would add a feature to auto-charge weapons, or at least allow you to bind the charge to another key. My finger will cramp holding LMB down to charge for long periods of time. If I could bind the charge to another key, I could use my thumb buttons on the mouse to control the charge and also it would allow the weapon to fire as soon as the LMB is clicked, instead of when the click is released...)
#37
Posted 09 April 2015 - 01:38 PM
So i recently realized that my mouse can be programmed to do various things that are activated by simply pressing a button, for example it could be used to keep LMB held down without actually having to hold it etc.
What is the common opinion about this ? Is this somehow considered cheating because it helps me be more accurate with semi-automatic weapons, all i have to do is aim at the enemy and hold the button down instead of clicking it again for each individual shot, this makes it easier to hit people because my aim stays more accurate as opposed to actually clicking.
dont think that this would make some huge difference in Hawken. In other FPS you should be carefull. No Recoil Mouse macros can cause you a very fast PB Ban.
“I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.”
#38
Posted 09 April 2015 - 02:15 PM
It's not the hardware that allows it. It's the software that does. Your hand acts and moves differently when you have to hold or repeatedly press a button. This would remove that. So... Good try though.
So if I duct tape my left mouse button down, it's all good?
0 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users
Sign In
Create Account



Back to top















