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Why does this happen on the Matchmaker screen?

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#1
harmless_kittens

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Sorry, I don't know how to post screenprints, but we've all seen it happen anyway.  I just want to know what's going on.

 

I'm talking about the "Ready" screen, where the game is trying to create a match based on the players that have indicated that they are ready.  I've been in dozens of matches now where multiple people click "Ready", and the game sorts us into our two teams on the next screen.  But then, quickly, one or more people UNCLICK the "Ready" button, so that we go back to the Matchmaker screen again and the process starts over again.  Eventually enough people click "Ready" again, and the process repeats, so long as people don't change their minds again?

 

My question is regarding WHY people are unclicking the "Ready" button right after we have been sorted into teams (or at least it appears this way).  As a novice player it looks to me like some people don't like the team they got sorted into, so they unclick real fast to hopefully get a better team?  Is this what is happening?

 

I totally understand not wanting to be on my team, or wanting to be on the best player's team, but if we can really manipulate the system this way it seems kind of "cheap".

 

I'm hoping that I'm just misunderstanding what is happening there.  Thanks for helping me understand it better.



#2
PoopSlinger

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Either people are being dicks or they are flip-floppy on their internal and cosmetic choices.


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Come on Crafty, you have been officially called out on your lies. Your online reputation is at stake here, this is just like an old school street race running for pink slips. Its run what you brung and hope its enough. Put up or shut the fuzzy bunny up.


#3
_incitatus

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Sometimes, peeps will do this if the teams aren't even, with the hope that another will join to make it a fair match.

 

Other times, could be a need to go into the garage.  Could be a desire to do the weapon glitch at the last second.


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#4
Bergwein

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"Okay, I'm rea... ah damn let's head for the bathroom real quick."


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#5
coldform

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"Okay, I'm rea... ah damn let's head for the bathroom real quick."


"Alright folks! Ready u- oh fuzzy bunny. Stand by - There's a herd of angry trolls in the TS. Back in 1minute..."

"Time to start- what do you mean "he's bleeding from the head"!!?? Hold on..."

" don't leave spawn till you- dammit buddydog, get back here! No! Don't do that! Leave that alo-
"User disconnected from the server"
fuzzy bunny."
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I like going against the best of any game I play. Helps you in the long run n motivates u to do more. Always room for improvement not failure

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#6
LaurenEmily

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They either do it because they are displeased with the matchmaker choices (afaik the MM won't change it's mind no matter how much they spam the Ready button)  Or just to mess with people, make them mad for the lulz.


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#7
harmless_kittens

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Well, maybe it would help me if I understood the rewards system better, especially since I don't care about my MMR that much.  It's my understanding that, other than a daily reward for winning one Coop TDM and one TDM match, you get the same rewards regardless of if you win or lose.  Is this incorrect?  For MMR purposes, I thought that it was only based on your own individual performance, and is not affected by your win/loss record.  Is this incorrect?

 

Thanks again.



#8
dorobo

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I usually do that when we are one player short.

 

But one time I kept unclicking after a first sound of countdown then clicking ready again so it would play that sound again unclick! Repeat! So i was making my own rythm with it.. Others just let me keep doing it sayin nothin in chat. And I felt that other players were hypnotized and mesmerized tryin to follow the pattern   :pirate:

 

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Edited by dorobo, 19 February 2016 - 07:24 AM.


#9
-Tj-

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You do get the same-ish rewards in Hawken Credits (HC), but XP rewards change depending on how well you do in the match. If you do terrible, you get less XP. Do great, you get more. Though it doesn't really matter what team you're on, it's much more fun earning XP when the teams are evenly matched (or in some peoples' cases, when the match is stacked in their team's favor).


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#10
harmless_kittens

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You do get the same-ish rewards in Hawken Credits (HC), but XP rewards change depending on how well you do in the match. If you do terrible, you get less XP. Do great, you get more. Though it doesn't really matter what team you're on, it's much more fun earning XP when the teams are evenly matched (or in some peoples' cases, when the match is stacked in their team's favor).

Who is "you" here?  Do you mean the XP is better if your TEAM does well, or just you personally?  Thanks for clarifying :)



#11
_incitatus

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Your XP is based on how well you do in the match, which is obviously affected by your team's performance.  If you are doing a lot of damage and nobody is securing the kills, you won't get as many points which means less HC/XP.


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#12
StubbornPuppet

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Back on topic, I will 'un-ready' when I realize the teams are uneven.  This happens because either someone leaves the server just as everyone is 'ready' OR because I cannot count and readied up with uneven teams.

 

But, I've also seen it done by people who were obviously trying to manipulate the team they were on.

 

I've also seen it done by people who were just being jerks that like to annoy everyone.


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To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#13
harmless_kittens

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Is it a problem people are trying to remedy because the Matchmaker sometimes puts the best players all on one team?  Or are there some that just don't want an uneven number of players on each team?  The first I can understand as being a problem with the Matchmaker.  

 

But if we also feel we need an equal number of players on each team before beginning a match, I'm not sure that this follows, because of differing skill levels.  I've been in matches where one player was so good they could have probably won by them self against 6 human novices on the other team.


Edited by harmless_kittens, 19 February 2016 - 12:01 PM.


#14
TheButtSatisfier

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Is it a problem people are trying to remedy because the Matchmaker sometimes puts the best players all on one team?

 

My general understanding is that matchmaker will try to balance the teams as best as possible before the match begins. If matchmaker is putting the best players a team together, it's doing that because (1) they're in a party, or (2) it calculated that the most optimal balance for that lobby is putting those two players on a team and stack the remaining slots of the team with the least skilled players. It would then put all the (relatively) mediocre players on the other team.

 

That being said, I know there are a few players around here that have a more granular understanding of matchmaker's mysterious ways. If what I've said is inaccurate, or there are some important nuances that we should keep in mind, please speak up.


Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 19 February 2016 - 12:44 PM.

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#15
angryhampster

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space out and let it happen.

 

i know about the ADHD feeling when wanting to get into a game but some fuzzy honey wanted to purposely piss me off, and i jus wanna rip off his computer and eat it, and then go to the park and take a shot of pepsi while shooting imaginery rockets from my ears and machine gun bullets from my nostril while i see a giant shark flying in and attacking me, only to be saved by a charging elephant at the very last second, only to wake up to the dream and read this post.


Edited by angryhampster, 19 February 2016 - 01:51 PM.


#16
talon70

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The fact that one person can ready and unready, changing team composition until  they get the teams they are looking for, proves the  matchmaker algorithm needs  some work.

 

It is really the best balanced matches that are the most fun for me. I was thinking that adding an AI to balance the pub matches better might work pretty well. A ji-b4b4  Ai mech could even maybe be scripted to 'balance' that  pilot dominating a server of noobs. hmm



#17
comic_sans

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Sometimes, peeps will do this if the teams aren't even, with the hope that another will join to make it a fair match.

 

Other times, could be a need to go into the garage.  Could be a desire to do the weapon glitch at the last second.

 

Also, to be a fuzzy bunny.

 

DOUBLE also,

 

and then go to the park and take a shot of pepsi

 

Never change.


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#18
Morquedeas

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I do this sometimes.

 

Basically the matchmaker is better at balancing everyone when they are all already in the game then it is when its adding people to already formed team.  The way it adds people during a match where the teams have formed its actually pretty terrible, I could go into detail but I don't think its necessary right now.  Basically, the match will be more balanced the more people there are when you click ready.

 

The other reason I do this is if there is like 5 people in a lobby, if everyone readies up then you get a 2v3, not fun.  The smaller the teams, the more of an issue uneven team sizes is.  If its like 5v6 I don't care as much.People don't always sit, and it's nicer if everyone can play right when the match starts so I'd just as soon wait till there is an even number of people in the game.


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#19
DemitronPrime

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Who is "you" here?  Do you mean the XP is better if your TEAM does well, or just you personally?  Thanks for clarifying :)

 You PERSONALLY...

 

your team win adds a bonus but hawken xp etc is based on your individual performance...

 

well thats how i always thought it worked


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#20
1uster

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One more thing to add (I just speedread through the thread):

At least here in EU often there is a "Pilot connecting...". This is the moment when I unready because very often this "Pilot" never joins. And I am not sure if the MM is aware of the MMR of the incoming pilot. So just wait till he is there or not and then reready.


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#21
angryhampster

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i like being on the losing team, because at least on the losing team, i can find out how much i  fuzzy gunny and realize again, how important teamwork is.


Edited by angryhampster, 19 February 2016 - 05:35 PM.

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#22
maxajcd

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"Time to start- what do you mean "he's bleeding from the head"!!?? Hold on..."
 

Is this a joke about me because i got hit in the head a few weeks ago and lots of bleeding :]


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#23
MechFighter5e3bf9

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all of us usualy do this to do match makers job ourselves kinda have too when you got the whole irc cast on left, and recruit/nightfirebolt etc on the right



#24
angryhampster

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if angryhampster is on the other team, the person on the losing team will automatically click un-ready juyst to be with me.



#25
PsychedelicGrass

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if angryhampster is on the other team, the person on the losing team will automatically click un-ready juyst to be with me.


I'd unclick ready a million times if it meant I'd be on your team <3

What's the big fuzzy bunnyng deal? Lots of amazing people have committed suicide, and they turned out alright.

 


#26
-Tj-

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Who is "you" here?  Do you mean the XP is better if your TEAM does well, or just you personally?  Thanks for clarifying :)

 

Pretty much what the others said, the "you" is you yourself. incitatus hit the nail right on the head about you doing a lot of damage but nobody's actually helping secure kills, thus nobody gets XP. The basics of it are the more damage you do to a killed player, the more XP you get. The player who gets more kills will get more kill bonuses, but not necessarily more points for damage done.


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#27
OdinTheWise

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i do it just to be a fuzzy bunny some times 


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#28
asipo

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this happen alot when i first join the game

 

i assume most old player will just ready (or totally forgot to) and afk continue surfing the web


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#29
angryhampster

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I'd unclick ready a million times if it meant I'd be on your team <3

 

i will not even dignity your post as a response, since you have no face, and NO SOUL!!!!!

 

 

on topic, sometimes, when I am feeling like a nice person, i ready and unready because i think it's cute.  and fuzzy bunny is cute, and i like to fuzzy bunny all over the fuzzy bunny when eating the fuzzy bunny off the fuzzy bunny table with fuzzy bunny and more fuzzy bunny to fuzzy bunny with..



#30
DieselCat

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this happen alot when i first join the game

 

i assume most old player will just ready (or totally forgot to) and afk continue surfing the web

 

What are you trying to say sonny (or is it little Missy) ? Older players have a tendency to daydream and drift off ?

 

You young whipper-snapper...Why I oda.............Uh wait, what was I just doing ?  :tongue:  


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#31
_incitatus

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You young whipper-snapper...Why I oda.............Uh wait, what was I just doing ? :tongue:


You were just about to check on your lawn in your underwear.

#32
DieselCat

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You were just about to check on your lawn in your underwear.

 Close...my boxers with little robots ....wise guy  :no:


Just Relax....and take life one game at a time....

Don't run to your death....walk

 

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#33
angryhampster

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harmlessskittens, a good way to make them stop is to ask them why they are doing it, and tell them that they are wasting valuable time and your time.  they will listen and respect what you say if you say it politely.


Edited by angryhampster, 20 February 2016 - 05:51 PM.


#34
harmless_kittens

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Sorry to necro, but this is getting REALLY annoying.  I just want to play the game, and these long waits between matches (WHY IS IT SO LONG?!) are compounded by people just sitting on that screen and not clicking the "Ready" button (or doing the click/unclick game I already mentioned).  And its not like the people are really AFK, because as soon as the match starts (despite them NEVER clicking "Ready"), they're boosting off to fight like everyone else.  I'd rather people click "Ready" and then go AFK, despite the match starting, than leave that screen sitting there forever.  I just want to actually PLAY Hawken, not just admire my mechs in the garage.  I don't care if I win or lose - I just want to play the game, and these waits seem pretty ridiculous. Just click that "Ready Button", please? 

 

On a related note, why is there such a long countdown between matches?



#35
StubbornPuppet

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Sorry to necro, but this is getting REALLY annoying.  I just want to play the game, and these long waits between matches (WHY IS IT SO LONG?!) are compounded by people just sitting on that screen and not clicking the "Ready" button (or doing the click/unclick game I already mentioned).  And its not like the people are really AFK, because as soon as the match starts (despite them NEVER clicking "Ready"), they're boosting off to fight like everyone else.  I'd rather people click "Ready" and then go AFK, despite the match starting, than leave that screen sitting there forever.  I just want to actually PLAY Hawken, not just admire my mechs in the garage.  I don't care if I win or lose - I just want to play the game, and these waits seem pretty ridiculous. Just click that "Ready Button", please? 

 

On a related note, why is there such a long countdown between matches?

 

I don't have enough information, having not been in the same matches, but some people may want to patiently wait in the lobby until there are enough people to mostly fill the match.

 

The team balancer really can only do it's thing during the pregame lobby - and once teams are assigned, it uses two simple things to decide the team upon which an incoming joiner should be placed:  Which team is short a player and which team is technically losing.

 

So, if you start a match with 4-6 players, you can guarantee that it will begin getting lopsided as soon as other players start to join.  Conversely, if you wait for 8-10 players at least to be on hand, the few who join afterwards will hopefully have little impact on the team balance.

 

People who know that, will often try to hold out for as many players as possible before becoming "READY".  But, once enough people ready-up, they're ready for action.


To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#36
harmless_kittens

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That may very well be true, but the past couple nights its been faster for me to leave each match after its over and join another match in progress elsewhere.  I get to start playing again right away.  But this may make the match I left take even longer to get started.  But I and others get so impatient and leave because people are not "readying up" fast enough.  Personally I'd rather start a lopsided match than sit in a lobby for 2 minutes.  I'm going to get squashed no matter which match I join, so I might as well get to the "squashing" as fast as possible :)



#37
TheButtSatisfier

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-snip-

 

1. On average, how long are you waiting in a lobby before people ready up? A minute? Five?

2. What would you say is the longest amount of time you wait per day? Ten minutes?

3. When you play Hawken, do you usually stay in the same server, even if it's taking everyone a long time to ready up? Or do you wait a minute, leave the server, and re-queue after a minute or so?

 

To be honest, I can't remember the last time that I had to wait an unreasonable amount of time for a game to start. I use matchmaker to join a server, play a few rounds, and if the server population gets too low or the game isn't starting in the ~40 seconds I'm willing to wait, I leave and re-queue. Within about 30 seconds of queueing MM has found another match for me and I'm playing again in moments.

 

There have been a few times that I've been in a match where people wouldn't ready up in a timely manner. However, just telling them "ready up" seems to get those last couple check-marks to get the game going. If they still don't respond I leave and find another server.

 

It has been months since I've had a problem quickly finding a match to play in. If anything that's something I feel like Reloaded has done right; they've expanded the MMR range for matchmaker selection and reduced the queue time enough that there's no unreasonable delay between me hitting "launch" and MM putting me in a match. We used to have issues with that months ago, and it's been so long since it's come up that I've nearly forgotten that it was a problem to begin with.

 

Mind you, just because I haven't had a problem with what you're describing doesn't mean it's any less real for you. I'm curious if you are leveraging MM to quickly find other matches though.


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#38
Hyginos

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Further note, if there are pilots connecting and you have the option to un-ready, please do so. Best not to mess the balance before minute zero.


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#39
StubbornPuppet

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That may very well be true, but the past couple nights its been faster for me to leave each match after its over and join another match in progress elsewhere.  I get to start playing again right away.  But this may make the match I left take even longer to get started.  But I and others get so impatient and leave because people are not "readying up" fast enough.  Personally I'd rather start a lopsided match than sit in a lobby for 2 minutes.  I'm going to get squashed no matter which match I join, so I might as well get to the "squashing" as fast as possible :)

 

Perfectly understandable. Play the way makes you enjoy the game most.

 

I am one of the people who would rather wait for a full and balanced match and to not leave after each match.  I think that constantly leaving and joining contributes to the woes already felt by a low player-base - every match is imbalanced, every player who loses gets frustrated, they quickly leave, everyone scrambles to find new matches already in progress, the balance is bad, players lose and get frustrated, they leave,.... ad nauseum.  It's a vicious cycle that I believe contributes to problems with player retention.

 

But, again, it is perfectly understandable to just want to get to playing.  And I hold no bad feelings when it happens.


To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#40
DM30

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 I'd rather people click "Ready" and then go AFK, despite the match starting, than leave that screen sitting there forever.

 

Just wanted to address this point in particular, because while I understand wanting to get the next round moving quickly this is probably one of the worst things you could do in terms of match balance, and one of the things that annoys and frustrates me the most when playing pub matches.

 

I always get a massive sinking feeling when people rush the ready screen, teams get selected (bonus points for uneven team numbers) and then I watch as at least half of my team fails to spawn in as the countdown reaches 0, because now not only is my team likely down a man because of the balancing (I seriously need to tally it up some time, but the game seems to love putting me on the under-manned team for some reason), but now we're down an extra two or three because we have a couple of AFK'ers, and by the time they either get back to their keyboard or get auto-kicked there's often a noticeable score gap. Often them being auto-kicked doesn't even solve the problem because after that the endless join/leave cycle begins before someone can volunteer to switch teams and the team numbers never even out. Call me salty if you want, but this happens far more often then I think it has any right to because people are too impatient to wait for a minute or two at the ready screen to make sure the team balancer actually has a chance to work properly. It's one of several reasons why pub games just aren't fun to play for me anymore.

 

tl;dr: If you want to rush people at the ready-screen or bail out of a lobby to join another game in progress because you don't like waiting then that's fine, you do you, but do so with the knowledge that you're not doing any favours for the balance of the games you're rushing/leaving/joining.


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