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So...what happened to the east coast servers ...again?

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#1
Compliance

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So i log in today and see no ashburn servers...now only "na" servers?

 

It seems that support for the northeast continually gets worse.

 

We used to have NY servers where i could get an 18 ping sometimes on a good day....then they went bye-bye....slowly got more used to the "ashburn" servers with a 38+/- ping on a good day.....my game steadily got worse in terms of score as this and other tweaks happened....now i log on today and all i see are "na" servers....where i'm getting a ping of over 40. I still see los angeles servers...and dallas servers....and now the vague na, which I'm assuming stands for north america....seems like the desire for northeast support is really going down hill. I try to keep a positive outlook on this game....but it gets to be more and more "work" to make a kill between the server issues as well as all of the nerfing that has gone on since early on. I mean it really feels like we may as well be throwing marshmallows at each other. What happened to the nice server pings we had and the real "punch" these weapons used to have? In terms of weapon power I really think all of the player whining has caused an overkill on the nerfing of weapons...and in terms of server support I feel like the northeast is being ignored or abandoned.

 

As an owner of a PC shop that specializes in building custom gaming rigs, I've always steered our clients to this game...but it just seems like there's always some new...not so pleasant surprise every so often. I really don't get what the end goal is here.

 

As I've said before...I'd be willing to pay $50-$60 for this game if it would help on the financial side. I'd also like to be able to host a northeast server if that would get NY better service. Anyway....just some feedback from the client-side and an early beta player.


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#2
Silverfire

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NA servers are new east coast servers the devs are testing out. I'm connecting to all NA servers from NJ.  I've seen slightly higher ping in these new na servers than the old ashburn ones, like averages from 30-32 ping on ashburn to 36-40 on these na servers, but everything has seemed much smoother overall for me.  Less lag, no teleporting, less rubberbanding, just a smoother experience.  I have a relatively small sample size of perhaps a half dozen games played on these na servers as of this very minute, but I like what I see so far. I'll be server browsering to make sure I'm connecting to these more often.

 

Although playing on those NY servers were godly.  I used to get 10-12 ping on those and everything was so smooth and refined, movement felt crisp.  I find it's less about my ping and more about the servers themselves.  I get decent ping to dallas servers, like 60-70 ping which is very manageable, but those servers are absolutely atrocious with hit reg and teleporting and lag, etc.  Slightly better ping, like 40 ping on these na servers and there's WORLDS difference, and I doubt the 20 ping difference made that large an impact.  At this point though, everything is literally better than Dallas.

 

I still have no problems recommending this game, I work in a PC shop as well, and my clients are usually happy with both the computers I build them (or fix for them) and the games I recommend, lol.


Edited by Silverfire, 30 June 2015 - 08:14 PM.

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#3
EM1O

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The queue is broken as well. I've never had to wait more than 30 seconds to hop into a server, even if I was the only person online, for a DM or bots-tdm.  2 minutes and I gave up.

I used to be able to manually hop into a server, and if no one else showed up (in bots-tdm) I could at least mess around and pharm HC from the bots (I dont' need it, but it's cool all the same)--it's like Solitaire, but much more entertaining when I'm not looking for the adrenaline from a TDM, CDB or MA. Eventually someone joins up, and life goes on.

Not now. I just sit and sit, either in queue, or in the server, and my game experience is NOT HAPPENING HERE, folks. This needs a bit more work. I gave it about 4 or 5 hours between 0001gmt 1july and now, and haven't see one player from the "usual suspects" drop into these NA servers. Apparently I'm not alone in just giving up and Exiting the game, and you have just shut out a significant portion of your very first match Noob players, as they're very likely receiving the same experience when they do this, or defaulting to the hit-or-miss Dallas and left-coast fat ping / >50% hit reg loss.

 

Fix this mess, or you might be cutting your throats here... :wallbash:


Edited by em1o, 01 July 2015 - 03:39 AM.

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#4
Compliance

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Ok, so....tonight in "na" servers...which are supposed to be the "east coast".....pings are now averaging 108....more aggravating every time i sit down to play this game. I think at this point I'll give it a couple days more...but I'm close to giving up on this game.

 

Couple of questions:

 

1) Why can't we at least have private servers available for the northeast?

 

2) Why in god's name can't we see relative server pings in the server list?...like what has been the norm for like....forever?....instead of this vague "na"....or city name?   You have to actually jin the server and play for a few minutes before your ping registers...and then...quit mid game if your ping is to high to play....

 

3) Why is the server access filtered by skill or experience?.....I mean wth?...the better you get...the less chance you have of ever playing again?...is that what we want?....I mean...i'm not that great a player and I have like 1 choice of east (supposedly) or midwest server to choose from...sometimes...what is this vague filter of "game enjoyability"?....if you don't play against skilled players...you'll never get better....if you try to make everybody happy in that they are always winning or "having close games"....its just not possible...and it makes for a really messed up and unenjoyable system...

 

4)....and while we're at it....lets bring back the player ability to switch teams so that we can manually balance out team skills when things get out of whack during the game....yes...this can be abused...but the majority of players will utilize this properly....like they always have....and bring back the vote kick if needed...why try to reinvent the wheel?....it's not working....

 

 

I've said this before too many times...I've been here since early on.....the whole package has gotten to the point where I'm within a session or two of throwing in the towel...


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#5
Call_Me_Ishmael

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Compliance,

 

Can you code C++?  Got any clue how a toolchain works?  Can talk to a DevOps guy, maybe do his job?

 

No?  Stifle.

 

Yes?  Fill out an app.


Did I say Call Me Ishmael?

 

You should call me Luna.


#6
Silverfire

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Devs are aware of ping issues with the na servers, they're being looked at. Apart from the sudden change in ping, they've been good for me.

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#7
DieselCat

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The ping on the newer NA servers have been worse for me. I usually have averaged 40-50 on these but tonight it was in the 120-140 range. I was getting better ping rates on the LA servers (approx 105-115) and EU servers were around 140-150. I try to avoid the Dallas servers if I can.

 

I'm not complaining though, even at these higher pings I'm still able to play, though not quite as smooth as before. I realize the staff is working things out and it's a process that can't be completed on a day. 

 

Just chiming in with my personal observations in recent gameplay.

 

My pinkie finger is killing me.

 

*+


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#8
Compliance

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Compliance,

 

Can you code C++?  Got any clue how a toolchain works?  Can talk to a DevOps guy, maybe do his job?

 

No?  Stifle.

 

Yes?  Fill out an app.

So Ishmael....do I now need to actually go to work for the company in order to voice opinions or end up with an enjoyable game?...Thank you for your moronic response... 



#9
Call_Me_Ishmael

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So Ishmael....do I now need to actually go to work for the company in order to voice opinions or end up with an enjoyable game?...Thank you for your moronic response... 

 

Seems like you're spouting out of ignorance.  You deserve to be educated.


Did I say Call Me Ishmael?

 

You should call me Luna.


#10
Compliance

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Seems like you're spouting out of ignorance.  You deserve to be educated.

*Checks to see if Hell has actually frozen over*.....nope.....I guess this is not the day that you'll ever educate me...



#11
Call_Me_Ishmael

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You're making this too easy.  I'm moving my household this weekend, so it'll be a while before I can post a reply to whatever you might come up with.


Did I say Call Me Ishmael?

 

You should call me Luna.


#12
Compliance

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You're making this too easy.  I'm moving my household this weekend, so it'll be a while before I can post a reply to whatever you might come up with.

You see this is the problem...according to Ishmael...who I'm assuming knows all....in order to make the game better, players first need to apply to the company for a job, then they need to learn all of the inner workings of the game development, as well as the network and server structure, the implementation and deployment plan, and maybe the overall company business plan...simple enough...I guess....are you giving classes in all this Ish?...jesus I hope so...I mean you know...between moves and all...anyone else have a good idea?...Something constructive?



#13
DieselCat

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You're making this too easy.  I'm moving my household this weekend, so it'll be a while before I can post a reply to whatever you might come up with.

 

Topic derailment ....no need for this  :sad:

 

 

*+

 

 

 

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Just Relax....and take life one game at a time....

Don't run to your death....walk

 

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*+

 


#14
Compliance

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True DieselCat....Well maybe Ish will take his time carting his troll house to its new location under some hobbit bridge...and that will give others some time to come up with some positive ideas...I hope so.

 

One thing that I'm assuming could possibly be done to make things better sooner (for the east anyway), would be to allow private servers located in the northeast (preferably NY). I know I've read that this may be coming at some point after the bugs are worked out of the initial release of private server packages. Any further word on this?



#15
Call_Me_Ishmael

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Compliance, you engender feelings in me.  Feelings.


Did I say Call Me Ishmael?

 

You should call me Luna.


#16
Compliance

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So with a little testing and research....looks like the na servers ping best to the Utah area. So it really looks like there are no east coast servers atm...or there are east coast servers that happen to ping best to the west-mid-west.



#17
Compliance

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Compliance, you engender feelings in me.  Feelings.

Sorry Ishy....not interested lol...



#18
Call_Me_Ishmael

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Mmm.  Guess I'll have to rek you in game.

 

Feelings.


Did I say Call Me Ishmael?

 

You should call me Luna.


#19
Compliance

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Mmm.  Guess I'll have to rek you in game.

 

Feelings.

Nice hat btw.



#20
Call_Me_Ishmael

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No, no.  You don't understand. 
 

Ok, so....tonight in "na" servers...which are supposed to be the "east coast".....pings are now averaging 108....more aggravating every time i sit down to play this game. I think at this point I'll give it a couple days more...but I'm close to giving up on this game.
 
Couple of questions:
 
1) Why can't we at least have private servers available for the northeast?

 
Because Private servers are hosted on the same VMs as public servers, and, for whatever reason (probably cost), there are currently none in the Northeast.
 

2) Why in god's name can't we see relative server pings in the server list?...like what has been the norm for like....forever?....instead of this vague "na"....or city name?   You have to actually jin the server and play for a few minutes before your ping registers...and then...quit mid game if your ping is to high to play....

 

Because the game components are distributed, this is asking for server-level and client-side changes.  Both are in code.

 

I'll speculate (somewhat educated speculation): You'd need to change the current client-gameserver implementation and make a system service.  Continuing the speculation, this requires architecture, design, implementation, and testing.  It'll take a sprint team three weeks, most likely (they'll do other stuff in the sprint, too), but what Josh has been telling you about understanding the build environment - the toolchain, CI/DevOps - is as important as understanding the architecture (where and how in the distributed elements to make changes like this). 

 

Ash, Josh, I think there is a centralized service (AWS?  my Process Explorer says Hawken has connections to three machines in EC2) for all of Hawken, and there are game serverhosts by region, correct?  If so, this is THREE places needing modification:  the central registration server, the game servers, and the client IF.

 

That is a lot of change, Compliance.  How much value - in terms of business revenue - does that bring?

 

Kanban and Agile Scrum have the Product Owner order the backlog (PrioritiesTM) by weighted-shortest-job-first (WSJF), aka 'Net Present Value' (NPV); work To Do list items are sorted, and the ones with the most contribution (value) are done first.  If it costs a lot to do for a little return, don't do it first.

It's entirely possible that Reloaded doesn't use Scrum, btw; this is just one way to run a project.

 

Now, for you, Compliance:  I am a Program Manager (I have a nicer title in the org chart, but this is what it amounts to), and I've been running Application, Embedded, and HW (including FPGA) projects and programs for about 24 years; I will freely admit the last time I personally coded anything for production was December, 1998.

 

 

3) Why is the server access filtered by skill or experience?.....I mean wth?...the better you get...the less chance you have of ever playing again?...is that what we want?....I mean...i'm not that great a player and I have like 1 choice of east (supposedly) or midwest server to choose from...sometimes...what is this vague filter of "game enjoyability"?....if you don't play against skilled players...you'll never get better....if you try to make everybody happy in that they are always winning or "having close games"....its just not possible...and it makes for a really messed up and unenjoyable system...

 

Well, I feel it'd be better to list the MMR ranges, and make everyone's MMR visible (i.e. on the killscreen).  Higher-MMR players would theoretically be ashamed to stomp, and if there were guides (not a tutorial, but visual indications for new players) to indicate fitness, that would be better than locking.

 

The real problem is low player count.  We've been over this about 1e6 times.

 

 

4)....and while we're at it....lets bring back the player ability to switch teams so that we can manually balance out team skills when things get out of whack during the game....yes...this can be abused...but the majority of players will utilize this properly....like they always have....and bring back the vote kick if needed...why try to reinvent the wheel?....it's not working....

 

I joined Hawken 1/9/13.  I don't EVER recall a votekick.  I concur with the switch button, but go back to my answer for #2.  There are other things to fix, this one would need to be evaluated (how much more money would the game bring if we didn't lose x-many players to not letting players self-balance/switch teams, versus how much would be lost if we let gamers abuse the feature and stack teams).

 

I've said this before too many times...I've been here since early on.....the whole package has gotten to the point where I'm within a session or two of throwing in the towel...

 

I think I remember you joining circa Steam release, but could be mistaken.  Your tone here is petulant, and it's what drew my response.

 

Your feedback to Reloaded has to be summed with everyone else's, and then, when the actual development team is fully hired and able to produce demo'ed code and orchestrate releases, what the team will work on needs to be determined between the various roles in Reloaded's organization.  Your input may be drowned by business need.

 

If you don't see that after this explanation, I don't know what to tell you.  You seem young; I don't know if you're out of HS or in college; I will say it's someone with a lot of experience who'll make the decisions.  Threatening to throw in the towel as a user if they don't accede to your priorities is childish and suggests a lack of experience.

 

Nice hat, btw, it really reflects the inner You.


Did I say Call Me Ishmael?

 

You should call me Luna.


#21
HorseHeadProphet

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Is it better to have 15 ping to a server that maybe needs minor tweaking, or ping 108 to a tuned-up, experimentally configured server? I know what I would pick.

 

NY servers were great. Don't think I'd ever seen a complaint about them. Oh well it's not like anyone lives on the east coast anyway, right?

 

Hell, the servers were much better back when no one was running anything!

 

Massive hit reg issues, teleporting, and delayed tows on Dallas servers. Oregon and LA servers, forget about it.


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#22
Compliance

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Well Ish, I must say I sincerely appreciate the fact that you took the time to explain some of these things in detail.
 
I have been playing Hawken since early beta. I can't remember now how long before the Steam release...but it seemed like a couple of years maybe? Correction...I just checked and it was 2/19/13.
 
I realize that there was never a votekick option, but the reason I bring it up, as well as manual team switching, displayed server pings, etc., is that these things have been around a long time in many online multiplayer games, and they are effective in making a game a more enjoyable experience, and they are especially important in shooters. In other words...I may be able to lob rockets in a high ping game, but I can't snipe effectively in a server with a 108 ping.
 
I realize it would take a huge and expensive effort to make these changes to the game at this time, and that it's probably too late to even consider, but I bring it up out of frustration because I can't understand why they wouldn't be part of the design initially...pretty basic stuff in terms of what a player of PC shooters/simulators would expect. It's especially frustrating when one has to listen to the constant whining in-game about "the broken auto-balance". From what I gather this issue must be taking a lot of development resources to try and resolve, and I don't believe it really can be resolved fully. Even if you have 2 teams with perfectly matched skills and experience...there are too many other variables that will, as often as not, throw the game one way or the other...maybe even to the extreme.
 
I like your idea of listed visible MMR ranges and ratings.
 
Still would like NY servers...there are quit a few people living along the eastern seaboard..quaint little villages with names like....NY...Boston...Washington...few little towns in Jersey...Miami...
 
If we want more players, it seems that might be one direction to go eventually.
 
And it's not that I'm "threatening" to quit the game. No one would give a damn. I'm just voicing frustration about these things, and I know I'm not alone. And really...the most frustrating part is that the game worked better earlier on....when most of the bugs were out in beta...it also worked well somewhat around the initial Steam release...but since then...with losing servers and the addition of a multitude of tweaks I'm sure...it has become less fun and more frustrating to play...at least for me coming from the northeast. And I know a huge amount of resources must have gone into making these changes over time. 
 
I wouldn't bother bringing these things up if I didn't otherwise like the game so much.
 
I say these things hopefully to let whoever is in charge of the decision making know...that at some point...it just becomes easier and less frustrating to find another PC game to play for now..and maybe check back from time to time (to Hawken) to see if anything has changed for the better.
 
Anyway...again...I do respect the fact that you (Ish) took the time for a more rational response.  

Edited by Compliance, 04 July 2015 - 01:39 PM.


#23
Compliance

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Is it better to have 15 ping to a server that maybe needs minor tweaking, or ping 108 to a tuned-up, experimentally configured server? I know what I would pick.

 

NY servers were great. Don't think I'd ever seen a complaint about them. Oh well it's not like anyone lives on the east coast anyway, right?

 

Hell, the servers were much better back when no one was running anything!

 

Massive hit reg issues, teleporting, and delayed tows on Dallas servers. Oregon and LA servers, forget about it.

I'd like those 15 ping NY servers back...never had any issues with them. Current next best choice for me seems to be the Dallas servers.



#24
Call_Me_Ishmael

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OK.  I apologize for being such a d ick.  Or at least for letting it flow so much.

 

Frustration exists: servers in game, my household move, and work (trying to get a $171M - revenue - project moving).  I realize I'm being an a ss

 

I'll turn the 'self-expression' knob back down.


Edited by Call_Me_Ishmael, 04 July 2015 - 03:17 PM.

Did I say Call Me Ishmael?

 

You should call me Luna.


#25
o1me

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i'd just like "someone" to pop up and explain why a person living in Virginia is getting a comparable ping from Frankfurt (much better server tho) or identical to Los Angeles, and half the ping from Dallas, over the value from "NA" servers? Are the NA servers in fact geographically located on the west coast?

Just using a little objective viewing here makes this pretty damned obvious: No actual servers on the east coast at all, absolutely NO servers east of the Mississippi.

 

edit: either that, or ReLoaded has a bucket full of really bad service providers. and that's stretching the hell out of it.


Edited by o1me, 04 July 2015 - 03:30 PM.


#26
Compliance

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OK.  I apologize for being such a d ick.  Or at least for letting it flow so much.

 

Frustration exists: servers in game, my household move, and work (trying to get a $171M - revenue - project moving).  I realize I'm being an a ss

 

I'll turn the 'self-expression' knob back down.

No worries...no apologies needed...but accepted in respect for the offer.



#27
Compliance

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i'd just like "someone" to pop up and explain why a person living in Virginia is getting a comparable ping from Frankfurt (much better server tho) or identical to Los Angeles, and half the ping from Dallas, over the value from "NA" servers? Are the NA servers in fact geographically located on the west coast?

Just using a little objective viewing here makes this pretty damned obvious: No actual servers on the east coast at all, absolutely NO servers east of the Mississippi.

 

edit: either that, or ReLoaded has a bucket full of really bad service providers. and that's stretching the hell out of it.

I get the same kind of server performance. The na servers seem to ping similar to the west coast servers. The couple of Dallas servers I used last night were playable at 68+/-, but nothing like the missing ashburn servers (mid 30's)...or the ny servers (mid to high teens often).


Edited by Compliance, 04 July 2015 - 04:53 PM.





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