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Hopefully, it won't end like this 2nd time

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#1
kvazarsky

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Right, new Overlords? Riiiight? ;)

 

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Source: https://www.reddit.c...e_with_a_dying/

Btw. Interesting nickname for a dev.


Edited by kvazarsky, 31 August 2015 - 04:59 AM.

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#2
dorobo

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This type of fuzzy bunny happens very often.. I witnessed similar corporate pyramid workings in my previous job.

Couple people at the top send orders down to everyone else to the most bottom grunts. And grunts at the bottom like WTF?! This will be a disaster clearly it's not gonna work!

Then you work couple of years on a game wich is in the end not profitable so they close down this small branch office because its not making them any money :)



#3
nepacaka

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that's sad

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Edited by nepacaka, 31 August 2015 - 05:41 AM.

Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#4
Hyginos

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I'm assuming he's talking about Meteor? 


MFW Howken

 

My post count is neat.


#5
Dawn_of_Ash

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Call me ignorant, but I'm not convinced. There is literally no evidence supporting whatever the "dev" had said was true until the person gives more reason to believe it. That said, there is also no evidence on why it is not an Adhensive employee. I am however very suspicious on this person's Reddit name - not a name seen by a developer (but then again, this could be a personal account) and the fact that he says that the game has a P2W model when it quite obviously doesn't. Any person who argues against this just hasn't given the game enough time, thought and effort. I've played a fair share of F2P games in my gaming career and this is not even close on being P2W - Hawken is one of the most charitable games currently out and clearly beats LoL. I seriously doubt a Hawken developer/whatever they are would not know that their game is not P2W.


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#6
nepacaka

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I'm assuming he's talking about Meteor? 

i think yes. sure, if this guy is a really from devs band

 

I've played a fair share of F2P games in my gaming career and this is not even close on being P2W - Hawken is one of the most charitable games currently out and clearly beats LoL. I seriously doubt a Hawken developer/whatever they are would not know that their game is not P2W.

 

MechWarrior:On - slots. you should donate, or create another accounts for every mech in game (like i did :D), because one fully mech talent tree required 3 the same mechs. Devs are force you to Donut.

WoT - slots for money. you can't play without slots. donut, or use smurfs/twink account to have a additional slots. Devs are force you to Donut.

 

Warframe - Slots/reactor (ok, after we have real-money trade in chat you can get everything without donut). Devs are force you to Donut, but you can fuzzy bunny devs with trade.

 

Blade & Soul - invetory for real money, you can play without donut, but it is uncomfortable. Devs are force you to Donut, but it is not need if you don't want.

 

Robocraft - slots, or use smurfs (which actually not variant because "titanic-grind"). Devs are force you to Donut
 

Hawken - ????

nothing restricted? where's the catch? what wrong with this game?

 

I can give thousands of such F2P examples. but i probably know only 2-3 F2P games where devs not restricted nothing to players.

 

i'm just sad again...


Edited by nepacaka, 31 August 2015 - 05:58 AM.

Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#7
Silverfire

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I still don't feel the P2W, even at early OB launch, never ever did, which is why I'm not buying this guy's statement.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey guys, plot twist, I'm actually Khang Le.  I made this game. I've been interacting with you forever.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can be anyone on the Internet folks, doesn't mean I'm actually Khang Le, or any dev for that matter.  I'm not, never been a dev, but anyone can say anything.  The fact that this guy is saying that the game was P2W makes me skeptical despite what the rest of the paragraphs say.


Edited by Silverfire, 31 August 2015 - 05:45 AM.

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#8
nepacaka

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i actually think people like Khang Lee is a very busy to sit on forums and post some sh!t in discussion. :P
but i'm also sad because it is a 3 topic today about p2w.


Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#9
nepacaka

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also, Silverfire, Dawn_of_Ash.
Maybe you are forgot, but when hawken start in game exist "extinguisher" (and 2 other useless items, which no one use) which allow only for real money. so, early game was a p2w a little. and actually extinguisher added you free assault ability. it was bad.

 

i mean, what if these guys on reddit just remember hawken p2w version in which they are played long time ago? only since ascension (maybe, even since steam patch) hawken evolved into 100% fair free-to-play model.


Edited by nepacaka, 31 August 2015 - 06:19 AM.

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Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#10
CraftyDus

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Btw. Interesting nickname for a dev.

 

it's because they are slow to escape, it makes it easier than with say, toads


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#11
HepTagoN

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also, Silverfire, Dawn_of_Ash.
Maybe you are forgot, but when hawken start in game exist "extinguisher" (and 2 other useless items, which no one use) which allow only for real money. so, early game was a p2w a little. and actually extinguisher added you free assault ability. it was bad.


You are talking about countermeasurements, which were shortening effect of being emped, overheated, and removed effect of radar scrambler. It was purchasable for HC, but for short time, for MC too, which made ppl crying that is P2W. It was never obtainable for mc only.

What is wrong with ppl crying about that p2w?? There MUCH more grind hard games out there. Plus u got v good mech from the very beggining! By the time newbie learn how to use it, he is able to buy couple other mechs, i think

#12
MomOw

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Why not having a "this ain't a P2W game" event : make vids in some random servers playing a naked Fred and stomping.


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#13
Nept

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Call me ignorant, but I'm not convinced. There is literally no evidence supporting whatever the "dev" had said was true until the person gives more reason to believe it. That said, there is also no evidence on why it is not an Adhensive employee. I am however very suspicious on this person's Reddit name - not a name seen by a developer (but then again, this could be a personal account) and the fact that he says that the game has a P2W model when it quite obviously doesn't.

 

People don't typically spew sensitive information while readily disclosing their identity.  "Lead engineer" is kinda specific.


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#14
Saturnine

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I'm completely willing to believe that the guy is legit since the story is basically the same one I had been hearing since the fight club tournament. Even if it is just some guy, they're spot on about Meteor spending money like California drinking water and making all the stupid decisions. 


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#15
Silverfire

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He's right about the money management, bleeding money, but the P2W from management? That's hard to believe, but then again, given how Meteor miserably failed at making Hawken a big title with improper management, they failed at making the game overtly P2W, if P2W at all.


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#16
Nept

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As per IRC,

 

<Nept> I have a hard time buying the idea that it's a dev - partially because they're not providing any new information, but mostly because they're willing to name their position on the team

[08:17] <Nept> on top of that, they describe the model as p2w
[08:17] <Nept> when it quite clearly was not
[08:17] <Nept> sounds more like a disgruntled community member

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#17
nepacaka

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It was purchasable for HC, but for short time, for MC too, which made ppl crying that is P2W.

 

yes, but look.

i play not so much in hawken (if compared with other players) before ascention i have only 60 hours played.

all HC what i can earn, i spent on newest mech and internals, because i want buy all mech in game when i play. So, i just don't have any HC to buy this countermeasures.
but some players who buy only one scout, and play on it buy this countermeasuares. it is never been a problem for me because i can kill enemies without it, but...

 

the same situation in WoT now. look. you can buy "golden bullets" with silver-money (in game money), but it cost so much money.
i play in WoT without premium account, and i don't spent real money, only time. So, every silver-money which i earn, i spent on higher tier tanks, and modules. it required a lot of money, and if you play without premium account, you don't have enough silver to buy this "golden bullets". you should choice beetwen "upgrade your tanks" and "shot with golds"
So, my choice "new tanks", so i can't buy golden-bullet. so, this game is p2w for me. only one reason why i play in it, because i have a good skill, and can kill anyone without golden-bullets. but it is obviously 100% p2w game, in my opinion.

early i feel the same to hawken (as i say it is not problem for me). now i feel hawken free to play. because this bonuses no more exist at all. and i've don't

 
and if before I could blame hawken in P2W, but now I even can't find any reason to call it P2W.

i wrote something unreadable xD, but i think you understand me correct. i'm not blame hawken in P2W, i just want to say, the game could leave the wrong impression, and I could blame it in P2W early.

Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#18
nepacaka

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Why not having a "this ain't a P2W game" event : make vids in some random servers playing a naked Fred and stomping.

 

not so long time ago in russian community one player made a vote, and suggest "flash mob". all hawken players (who want) going in fight without items and internals whole week. I approve :D


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Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#19
Aregon

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I'm completely willing to believe that the guy is legit since the story is basically the same one I had been hearing since the fight club tournament. Even if it is just some guy, they're spot on about Meteor spending money like California drinking water and making all the stupid decisions. 

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#20
phed

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I'm completely willing to believe that the guy is legit since the story is basically the same one I had been hearing since the fight club tournament. Even if it is just some guy, they're spot on about Meteor spending money like California drinking water and making all the stupid decisions. 

 

wait, so you are more willing to believe him because you have already heard his story from some other source?  

 

but didn't other people hear this story at the same time you did? couldn't someone be parroting this thing you both already heard?  

 

i mean, isn't it vague enough that you could imagine anyone remotely knowledgeable in hawken writing the same thing?  like, i could have written that, what new thing did we learn from that post?


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#21
Saturnine

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wait, so you are more willing to believe him because you have already heard his story from some other source?  

 

but didn't other people hear this story at the same time you did? couldn't someone be parroting this thing you both already heard?  

 

i mean, isn't it vague enough that you could imagine anyone remotely knowledgeable in hawken writing the same thing?  like, i could have written that, what new thing did we learn from that post?

 

I heard about this kind of thing going on for the first time from [HWK]TJ out of conversations we had arising from his helping out with the Fight Club tournament server, who, as it turns out, Sloths is claiming to be now on Reddit. 

 

Also re other stuff: Whether Hawken is or is not p2w is irrelevant, as it's the aspects of the game that people perceive as being p2w that are the problem, and are the aspects of the game that were forced on the company by Meteor partway through early development, and those are the elements sloths is presumably referring to - MC, buying mechs, items, weapons, internals, etc.

 

And it's true anyone sufficiently knowledgable could've said what sloths is saying - in fact I've been saying it for ages. It totally could be a community member like me (blames9) or it could be the real deal. As far as I am concerned the difference is basically moot because myself and others have heard in the past from confirmed developers the kinds of claims sloths is making. (Except Hughes being threatened with his job, hadn't heard that before, but would be completely unsurprised to find it to be true.)


Edited by Saturnine, 31 August 2015 - 09:20 AM.

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Don't know which mech to pilot? Check out my guide to the mechs!

Want to hang out with some awesome people, even the world-famous Loc_Tr? Come to the #hawkenscrim IRC!


#22
kaiserschmarrn_

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And I'm Jesus Christ, your lord and saviour.



#23
dorobo

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In these days of indie developers and overpopulation and wars there are still plenty of suits that know nothing about games but have the power to make all the decisions. Sad but true. 



#24
hestoned

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to be fair there was a little bit of p2w back in open beta. the upgrades you can use during co-op bot destruction used to be available during multiplayer games until adhesive released an update to move them to bot destruction only. ex. reducing emp effect on yourself, reducing heat like the crt ability etc. plus the grind used to be like 10x longer. but yea meteor screwed up royally with the stupid fuzzy bunny they spent money on. just make the game 20 bucks and constantly update it with new cosmetics.


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#25
thedark20

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Even if the game looks P2W, learning curve is rather high and playerbase is filled with veterans. I've been playing without internals since forever. Why? There where fuzzy bunnyng expensive and i could only afford a SS back in closed beta. I was spending HC only to unlock all the mechs and try them out, but i've never needed that things.

I still run some mechs without them, but since prices have been cut in half for the internals i can afford outfitting them with items and internals. Yes now i can perform better with them but it feels rather stupid for me. it's more satisfying to run without them IMO. Maybe it's just me and i'm used to run without internals nor items.


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#26
nepacaka

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Early internals give you + and -, so, going without internals make a sense, now is not. (actually I always want return old +/- system)

Edited by nepacaka, 01 September 2015 - 03:02 AM.

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Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#27
Superkamikazee

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Also re other stuff: Whether Hawken is or is not p2w is irrelevant, as it's the aspects of the game that people perceive as being p2w that are the problem, and are the aspects of the game that were forced on the company by Meteor partway through early development, and those are the elements sloths is presumably referring to - MC, buying mechs, items, weapons, internals, etc.

 

 

If this doesn't get fixed, Hawken doesn't stand chance. 

 

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who wanted to slow the pace down, and one life per match would have been great, shorten match time to 5 mins or something (perfect). Hawken is and always was pretty complex (gameplay), but increasing movement speed, AC , added unnecessary complexity (the elite call it the skill ceiling) making gameplay less intuitive and more frustrating for new players. Then sprinkle in some P2W esque monetization, and tadaaah, here we are folks.. Keep it simple,  strategy should be the major skill gap not gameplay mechanics and system complexity. That's why games like Rising Thunder exist now. But hey, hindsight...

 

I feel bad for ADH, seems like there were people there who really wanted to do the right thing, but once you get in bed with the devil (publisher Meteor), there's always a cost.


Edited by Superkamikazee, 01 September 2015 - 04:23 AM.

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#28
KOS_Baconman

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What if we just give some bacon paint, some bacon holo-emotes and change Bunker from snow to bacon.

 

This way, everyone will be happy.

What you should really do, is replace your parts with bacon, so you can cook games and eat bacon

Obviously the wallpaper would be cooler if bacon was incorporated into it.

 


#29
bacon_avenger

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I'm of the same opinion as S9, I tend to believe the post is legit based on what I know and heard from talking to some people who either worked closely with Meteor or knew people who worked for Meteor.

 

Fun 'fact':  Ascension was an idea from Meteor to try and attract CoD players into Hawken.  At that point in time, Meteor had, for most intents and purposes, used all their funding up and what they were bringing in wasn't enough.

 

I put the word fact in quotes as I was told this as kind of a secret back at PAX Prime '13 (the last time Meteor or Hawken had a presence at PAX) by someone who knew someone who was an employee of meteor and had an interest in the game.  I know, it sounds like one of those 'my friend's friend's boyfriend' things, but:

  • They had no reason to make this up
  • When asked, I said that ascension felt like a grab for CoD players.  Only after that was when I was told I was correct and elaborated a bit more

As for the source, I'm not going to say who it is, or the details of how they knew the MTR employee for the reasons stated before.  Granted, I highly doubt anything bad would come of it now, but I'm also not going to violate their trust, even after all this time.

 

Toward the end, MTR was all about wringing as much cash from the player base as they could, and quite often made ADH concentrate on monitization ideas over ideas that would fix and/or improve the game.


Edited by bacon_avenger, 03 September 2015 - 08:20 PM.

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