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#1
Valimer

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with people being able to come and go from the server during the match. It completely ruins the experience.

 

Siege is a fragile game mode. It requires strong coordination and communication. It requires proper utilization of most mech types.

 

Believe it or not, people can lose and still feel like it was a good experience. But this is not possible if there are meta forces that control the balance of the game which the player can blame for their loss. They will feel cheated.

 

Also the fact that there are only 6 people to a team means that when someone leaves there is a noticeable increase in struggle for that team (unless the other team is terrible, of course).


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#2
CrimsonKaim

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This is a problem not only for siege, but for every gamemode.

The best thing we can do is wait now. The most problems are already on the forums and the devs probably informed.
It is up to them now, we did our job as beta testers.
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#3
MajyckToad

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Problem: the present (at this moment) 173 online players.

Solution: the 2011 anticipated 10 million subscribers finally showing up.

 

heh.

 

edit: sorry. that was out there just begging to be grabbed...  :)


Edited by MajyckToad, 19 May 2015 - 09:22 PM.

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#4
hawkenfox

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I think hawken can benefit in having AI bots placeholder until human can join the server. And whenever someone leaves

a match an AI mech will be injected according to the player's skill level so the match isn't affected. I am not saying however

to do AI injection like coop mode, but rather where an unbalance is numbers are detected match that number. Eg. 2 vs 2

there should not be any injection of AI bots, 3 vs 2 will see the server injecting 1 bot to the team with 1 less player ... if that

makes sense.

 

Hope the dev can look at this issue. Also let the players vote at the beginning if they want that AI mech when teams

are unbalanced.


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#5
Aregon

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You can have a good game of siege, if

-Your team is competent
-Enemy team is competent
-You are competent

But to say it is common is a lie.
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#6
Saltydawg

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This is why the very first night Josh came into Merl's Team Speak to introduce himself (yes I was there ;-) One thing I asked him for was some sort of debuff for leaving a game mid match. The debuff should be at least a 5-10 min penalty that prevents them from being able to que up for another match. I have seen some people leave then rejoin then leave again..making it even worse by preventing someone else from joining. I think it's a great idea and if you guys do to then talk to Josh about it. He is a very approachable guy. The concern he had initially was that there isn't enough people playing but the game is growing everyday. Maybe if enough people suggest the idea it might just make it into the game.

 

 

 

 

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#7
Lioot

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Have bunker siege, everyone loves bunker siege!


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#8
dorobo

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It's a cruel game. In that sense hawken is realistic  :ninja:  It might seem like a win at the start a total failure at midgame and you would still have a hope for the happy ending.



#9
coldform

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seriously. one server, out of MM rotation, nothing but bucker siege, with no MMR cap.


I like going against the best of any game I play. Helps you in the long run n motivates u to do more. Always room for improvement not failure

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czerofive-Today at 2:22 AM > got banned from playing lazertag - I used a knife to conserve ammo

FIRST OFF WHAT THE FUZZ IS A "SHILL"


#10
LaurenEmily

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Problem: the present (at this moment) 173 online players.
Solution: the 2011 anticipated 10 million subscribers finally showing up.
 
heh.
 
edit: sorry. that was out there just begging to be grabbed...  :)

10 Million ? did they really expect that ?
Sweet jesus can you even imagine what hawken would be like even with 10k players...

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#11
CrimsonKaim

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10 Million ? did they really expect that ?
Sweet jesus can you even imagine what hawken would be like even with 10k players...

they also said they would get 100 million dollars out of it in the first year or so. I turned out to be 1/10 of it.
Yes old hwk dev team failed. Failed hard.

And no it had no damn use to cheer them up. ._.

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#12
M4st0d0n

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Ah. Same old siege topic. War never changes.


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#13
TGrave

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they also said they would get 100 million dollars out of it in the first year or so. I turned out to be 1/10 of it.
Yes old hwk dev team failed. Failed hard.

And no it had no damn use to cheer them up. ._.

 

I heard they got 20 mils from Oculus when they started out, so add at least another 2/10th to that :P



#14
Nov8tr

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10 Million ? did they really expect that ?
Sweet jesus can you even imagine what hawken would be like even with 10k players...

Hawken hit a high of over 8k online at one time around this time last year. :) But yeah they told their financial backer they could get 10 million players and make 100 million......opppsss. Well we all know that didn't hapen.


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#15
BaronSaturday

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Hawken hit a high of over 8k online at one time around this time last year. :) But yeah they told their financial backer they could get 10 million players and make 100 million......opppsss. Well we all know that didn't hapen.


To be fair, meteor fucked off all the money as it came in. So I've been told. The game never got out of beta so it never really got the chance.
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#16
CrimsonKaim

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To be fair, meteor fucked off all the money as it came in. So I've been told. The game never got out of beta so it never really got the chance.


Yea, they had like two offices and half of the time they were doing live action series and stuff like that. Like a movie for a game that isn't ready.
The other half was busy with rewriting the code so low ejd rigs could run hawken. But in the end, they have wasted atleast half a year without any new content.
Even though they got warned by the community, they wouldn't listen with their argument: "We are creating our game." yes they did but they were not able to keep it up for obvious reasons.

Hopefully the new dev team will listen to the community.
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#17
DonCornelius

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Also the fact that there are only 6 people to a team means that when someone leaves there is a noticeable increase in struggle for that team (unless the other team is terrible, of course).

assign one of those high capacity servers to siege mode. BooYa!



#18
TheFrostnessMonster

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assign one of those high capacity servers to siege mode. BooYa!

That would be a very chaotic experience, an 18 man or 24 man siege game; it would be complete anarchy, and it probably wouldn't work, since there are only 2 maps that can 'support' a 24 player capacity without you running into another mech every 3 seconds.

 

But it would be cool to see.  Just sayin'.


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#19
StubbornPuppet

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I want to immediately disagree with the OP's topic title.  You absolutely CAN have a good game of Siege.  And you can do it often.

 

What is holding you up from enjoying your games of Siege is yourself - you are getting upset about losing due to the one problem common to ALL online video games in every game mode, people.  People suck.  But we can't change that and, despite them sucking, we also seem to quite enjoy the company of other people and the challenge of playing against other people.  You have to take the good with the bad.

 

To echo what another poster said, "We need a penalty for players who quit mid match."  I'm all for a couple of different rage-quit penalties.

  • Cannot join another match for 4-5 minutes.  (even if you quit for legitimate, real world, non-rage reasons - those should keep you busy enough for 4 - 5 minutes so that not being able to join another match isn't even an issue)
  • No XP/HC for the match you just quit (a really minimal and lame penalty that we already have)
  • All deaths during the match you're quitting still count against your KDR.  You lose the kills.  Sorry.
  • Match counts as a LOSS for your WLR, regardless of the actual outcome.

Penalties have to actually feel like penalties or they will be ignored.  Tough love.


To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#20
americanbrit14

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This is a problem not only for siege, but for every gamemode.

The best thing we can do is wait now. The most problems are already on the forums and the devs probably informed.
It is up to them now, we did our job as beta testers.

we did our job? hah no, our job has only begun...

 

the question is, how long will we stand before we can't handle any more.


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#21
DonCornelius

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this hawKen community needs to grow to survive. regular players can reduce the frustration and quitting by exercising a little common sense good sportsmanship. stay positive, be polite and respectful. dont tell people they suck, advise them how they can be more helpful. if a team is loosing so bad that players are bleeding away stop the bleeding. volunteer to balance teams quickly, and apply pressure. keep it lighthearted and fun for everyone. its a playground. we should all be friends. when you are amongst friends taking a whooping isnt so bad at all. and remember, next round will be different. sometimes you get a legendary match that people will sing songs about for generations.

 

siege is the highest form of competition in hawKen. everything else is just siege lite.



#22
Valimer

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I want to immediately disagree with the OP's topic title.  You absolutely CAN have a good game of Siege.  And you can do it often.

 

What is holding you up from enjoying your games of Siege is yourself - you are getting upset about losing due to the one problem common to ALL online video games in every game mode, people.  People suck.  But we can't change that and, despite them sucking, we also seem to quite enjoy the company of other people and the challenge of playing against other people.  You have to take the good with the bad.

 

To echo what another poster said, "We need a penalty for players who quit mid match."  I'm all for a couple of different rage-quit penalties.

  • Cannot join another match for 4-5 minutes.  (even if you quit for legitimate, real world, non-rage reasons - those should keep you busy enough for 4 - 5 minutes so that not being able to join another match isn't even an issue)
  • No XP/HC for the match you just quit (a really minimal and lame penalty that we already have)
  • All deaths during the match you're quitting still count against your KDR.  You lose the kills.  Sorry.
  • Match counts as a LOSS for your WLR, regardless of the actual outcome.

Penalties have to actually feel like penalties or they will be ignored.  Tough love.

 

 

 

"What is holding you up from enjoying your games of Siege is yourself - you are getting upset about losing due to the one problem common to ALL online video games in every game mode, people.  People suck."

 

You are telling me to feel a certain way. You are telling me not to feel cheated and frustrated that players up and leave for seemingly no reason. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. Imagine if the Captain said "Deal with it." That would not fly at all.

 

Imagine if League of Legends, ranked CS:GO matches, or DOTA2 allowed players to drop out and just go play another match, or let players queue up to join a game already in progress. Those games would be failures. And I'm not saying people don't leave during matches in those games, but it is very rare and most of the time it's because of external reasons.

 

Siege, as a game mode, does not work well with a queue system that let's players drop in and out whenever they want. It's a fine game mode and of course it's possible to have a legit, fair and good experience but those are too rare.

 

You want such HUGE penalties for people leaving, why not just make it so players can't join another match until their current one has ended?

 

Maybe Siege should never have been a game mode. Maybe they should have had capture the flag instead.



#23
Elite_is_salty

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seriously. one server, out of MM rotation, nothing but bucker siege, with no MMR cap.

 

My friend eth0 owns a private server, he set it to bunker siege, 24/7. Go thank him.

 

Server is in ashburn.


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#24
Hek_naw

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When playing with uneven teams, you just gotta pray someone else joins, right? It happens often, and sometimes the joiner actually helps turn the scales around.

 

Sometimes people have to leave all of a sudden and no penalties are going to fix that. But for the true game-hoppers, aren't those most of the time simply newbies ("siege omglol idk what i'm doing")? Or players with a bad attitude towards others, that go "**** this, I'll go play deathmatch". And in both of these cases, do you think penalties are going to matter much to them?

 

I agree with others here, the underlying problem is the current hawken player population. As a recent player myself, this game rocks so I'm gonna stay for a good while at least!



#25
coldform

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To all those who have problems with playing siege: find a way to get on the public TS. Play a match with VOIP, and you will see a huge difference. With communication, siege is very much playable.

BTW, how many people here will stop their involvement in a match when a player quits? I've started doing this, and the match seems to go better when I enforce my own fair play.

Edited by {TDM} coldform, 20 May 2015 - 12:24 PM.

I like going against the best of any game I play. Helps you in the long run n motivates u to do more. Always room for improvement not failure

z6aJAX7.png?1

 

czerofive-Today at 2:22 AM > got banned from playing lazertag - I used a knife to conserve ammo

FIRST OFF WHAT THE FUZZ IS A "SHILL"


#26
eth0

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seriously. one server, out of MM rotation, nothing but bucker siege, with no MMR cap.

 

assign one of those high capacity servers to siege mode. BooYa!

 

24 slots, 66 tick, bunker siege on ashburn-sg24m-pizza-is-pass. Let me know if it give you any trouble or if you guys want a map rotation to break up the salt that builds up on bunker.

 

My friend eth0 owns a private server, he set it to bunker siege, 24/7. Go thank him.

 

Bunker siege deserves no thanks. It only wants the salty tears of pilots.


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Pubstomping is a whole different strategic discussion, however, and usually just becomes an exploration of the ethics of dumpstering randos.

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#27
coldform

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I'm the one who should be, and is, thanking you, eth0. I have nothing but pure loathing for bunker siege. It's the vile, sadistic maceration of both enemy and ally hordes that is spurned so easily by this game mode. It's as if everyone that plays has some dibilitating addiction to feeding the murder machine disguised as the aa/EU tree. That is what I love about bunker siege. That is what I am thankful for.
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I like going against the best of any game I play. Helps you in the long run n motivates u to do more. Always room for improvement not failure

z6aJAX7.png?1

 

czerofive-Today at 2:22 AM > got banned from playing lazertag - I used a knife to conserve ammo

FIRST OFF WHAT THE FUZZ IS A "SHILL"


#28
StubbornPuppet

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"What is holding you up from enjoying your games of Siege is yourself - you are getting upset about losing due to the one problem common to ALL online video games in every game mode, people.  People suck."

 

You are telling me to feel a certain way. You are telling me not to feel cheated and frustrated that players up and leave for seemingly no reason. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. Imagine if the Captain said "Deal with it." That would not fly at all.

 

Imagine if League of Legends, ranked CS:GO matches, or DOTA2 allowed players to drop out and just go play another match, or let players queue up to join a game already in progress. Those games would be failures. And I'm not saying people don't leave during matches in those games, but it is very rare and most of the time it's because of external reasons.

 

Siege, as a game mode, does not work well with a queue system that let's players drop in and out whenever they want. It's a fine game mode and of course it's possible to have a legit, fair and good experience but those are too rare.

 

You want such HUGE penalties for people leaving, why not just make it so players can't join another match until their current one has ended?

 

Maybe Siege should never have been a game mode. Maybe they should have had capture the flag instead.

 

Nah, not telling you how to feel and I didn't say anything about not feeling cheated or frustrated when players leave.  What I'm suggesting is that you not let it ruin your fun or ruin your day.  People suck - that's life.

 

As for League of Legends and DOTA... well, they aren't Hawken and Hawken isn't them.  People don't want to sit around in a lobby in Hawken for 20 minutes waiting for enough players to join their match before they can begin and the Hawken player base (both in types and numbers of people) won't deal with a game mode that requires them to wait around a long time between every match AND be unable to leave it for whatever reason may come up.  We can't treat Hawken and the style of gamer it attracts like an MMO.

 

As for my HUGE penalties, well, those are just my opinions.  But I'm not being as harsh by asking for a 4-5 minute standout penalty as your suggestion that people not be able to join another game until the current one is over.  I've seen plenty of Siege matches that go on for 40+ minutes.


To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#29
System64

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I find origin to be the most annoying map to play on siege. 90% of the time, the AA is just a giant clusterf*ck firestorm. I mean, I know this can happen on other siege maps, but on origin the structure of the AA makes it really annoying to capture or defend, because of how tight it is. The massive pillar in the middle and the four walls around it basically forces you to constantly flank around the walls or engage in extremely close range, increasing the risk of self damage with explosive weapons. The AA on origin needs to be more open, in a similar way to front line.


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#30
_incitatus

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I find origin to be the most annoying map to play on siege. 90% of the time, the AA is just a giant clusterf*ck firestorm. I mean, I know this can happen on other siege maps, but on origin the structure of the AA makes it really annoying to capture or defend, because of how tight it is. The massive pillar in the middle and the four walls around it basically forces you to constantly flank around the walls or engage in extremely close range, increasing the risk of self damage with explosive weapons. The AA on origin needs to be more open, in a similar way to front line.


In other words, fighting over the AA on Origin can be a lot of fun.
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#31
System64

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In other words, fighting over the AA on Origin can be a lot of fun.

Not for the average player, for veterans and experienced players surely, but given the matchmaker's horrible method of joining inexperienced players with experienced ones, it is often especially frustrating on this map.


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#32
Hayseed

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I want 15 V.S. 15 Hawken battles lol

 

 

Actually that would be kinda awesome....provided the maps were big enough....

 

But I think upping the mech count to 7v7 or 8v8 would be a fun way to try to reduce that problem youre talking about



#33
MajyckToad

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seriously. one server, out of MM rotation, nothing but bucker siege, with no MMR cap.

as much as i hate bunker siege, this i want. yes. what you sed. really ,  hate it. Loath it also.

BUT

mor e somthingz need doing. and damfuknsoon.


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#34
reVelske

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but on origin the structure of the AA makes it really annoying to capture or defend, because of how tight it is.

 

There are two layers of the AA structure for a very good reason, learn to get on the top of it more, it's the most advantageous position to be at IMHO. I avoid fighting from within the structure as it's frankly inefficient in keeping enemy team off AA.



#35
Valimer

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Nah, not telling you how to feel and I didn't say anything about not feeling cheated or frustrated when players leave.  What I'm suggesting is that you not let it ruin your fun or ruin your day.  People suck - that's life.

 

As for League of Legends and DOTA... well, they aren't Hawken and Hawken isn't them.  People don't want to sit around in a lobby in Hawken for 20 minutes waiting for enough players to join their match before they can begin and the Hawken player base (both in types and numbers of people) won't deal with a game mode that requires them to wait around a long time between every match AND be unable to leave it for whatever reason may come up.  We can't treat Hawken and the style of gamer it attracts like an MMO.

 

As for my HUGE penalties, well, those are just my opinions.  But I'm not being as harsh by asking for a 4-5 minute standout penalty as your suggestion that people not be able to join another game until the current one is over.  I've seen plenty of Siege matches that go on for 40+ minutes.

 

You're telling me not to let something ruin my fun or my day but not telling me how to feel...?

 

My point in the OP was that when something happens like a player leaving the match, the remaining players have a reason to feel that their loss OR their win, was not real. Because forces outside of their control changed the balance of the game. That's not to say you can't still have fun, but it does mean that winning or losing doesn't mean anything which inherently ruins what is supposed to be a competitive experience. We can agree Siege is fun because it's a very competitive game mode, right? I mean Hawken itself is very competitive in nature.

 

I never claimed Hawken was like LoL or DOTA. What I am saying is the game mode Siege, as a game mode, does not work well with the current queue/join system. Siege is comparable to LoL or DOTA because it relies heavily on team coordination and objective based game play. Both also have small teams which means every team member counts. And since leaving the match influences the entire match so heavily, to have a fair and satisfactory experience those games have to do everything they can to keep everyone in the game.



#36
Valimer

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Also I acknowledge that there are not many people playing the game, and that is a huge factor in why Siege matches don't turn out well. But my point still stands. Even with 100 million people playing Hawken, Siege deserves a more suitable system for keeping players in place.



#37
System64

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The inside of origin's AA is the annoying part, the top is fine.


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#38
coldform

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Played bunker siege @WW last night. It was almost an hour long.
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I like going against the best of any game I play. Helps you in the long run n motivates u to do more. Always room for improvement not failure

z6aJAX7.png?1

 

czerofive-Today at 2:22 AM > got banned from playing lazertag - I used a knife to conserve ammo

FIRST OFF WHAT THE FUZZ IS A "SHILL"


#39
Nightfirebolt

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I play siege whenever possible.

 

It's a love-hate relationship.

 

I've had plenty of great games on siege, but it's largely up to chance. One thing I've found that helps, though, is if somebody knowledgeable takes the reigns and starts giving orders. When a team has direction, it tends to perform better. I've turned plenty of hopeless matches around just by giving good instructions to the aimless/clueless players on my team.

 

But of course, it doesn't always work, as people don't always listen (language barriers can also be a problem). And of course, many people would rather load up a Reaper and sit back and be useless than risk their lives at the AA.

 

C'est la vie. What can you do? They're not exactly leeching...

 

I completely agree that a system should be in place to punish leavers, though, similar to the dishonor system in Guild Wars.


Edited by Nightfirebolt, 22 May 2015 - 04:06 PM.


#40
reVelske

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Don't ships used to shoot you back in the days? I miss those chaotic days.

 

They really need to add more flavours to Siege when the new devs get their heads around the game.






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