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figured out what the problem with orblord builds is

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#1
Acguy

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Sorry if this is old news, but aside from the fact that orblording just "gives you a bunch of health" and lets you stack parts which work together, there's a very specific issue with repair kits that needs to be fixed. The issue with repair kits is that they're... also extractors.

 

Let's say you've been given a pie, but you have a coupon that gives you 15% more pie. If you've got 15% more to eat, it should take you 15% more time to eat it assuming your consumption rate is unchanged by the coupon, as each percentage of the pie takes the same amount of time for you to eat so long as you can fit it in your stomach.

 

That isn't how the repair kit works at all. With the repair kit, you get 15% more pie, but you actually eat it in the exact same amount of time. The time it takes to deplete a repair orb with the repair kit is identical to the time without one. That means you're eating it 15% faster, which is exactly what an extractor already does. Your hp/s while standing on an orb with a repair kit is identical to your hp/s while standing on it with a basic extractor.

 

Here are the actual average times and healrates, tested with 4 trials each with a stopwatch that read down to the tenths place:

 

No parts;              170 hp, 4.45 seconds                                        = 38.2022 hp/s

15% extractor;   170 hp, 3.85 seconds                                        = 44.1558 hp/s

15% kit;               195.5 hp, 4.45 seconds (should be ~5.2!)   = 43.9326 hp/s (should still be 38.2 without the extractor's speed!)

Both parts;          195.5 hp, 3.85 seconds (should be 4.45!)  = 50.7792 hp/s (that's a 30% increase, should only be 15!)

 

Of course, I doubt this applies to EU stations and things of the like, but the fact of the matter is that the repair kit does exactly what the basic extractor does, only it allows you to do it for a longer period of time. The only advantage extractors really have is that they make the orb dissapear earlier if you want to keep anyone else from using it, but you're getting no more hp/s than you would with the kit.

 

Just using math instead of timers, let's compare things which require equal slots to use:

 

15% rep + 15% ex (3 slots); 1.15 orb's worth of hp, at 1.30 times the speed

25% rep (3 slots);                   1.25 orb's worth of hp, at 1.25 times the speed

...so by switching from the first to the second setup, you can heal an additional 8.7% more hp and only heal 3.8% more slowly (compared to the former setup, not to the base orb)

 

15% rep + 30% ex (4 slots); 1.15 orb's worth of hp, at 1.45 times the speed

25% rep + 15% ex (4 slots); 1.25 orb's worth of hp, at 1.40 times the speed

...so by switching from the first to the second setup, you can heal an additional 8.7% more hp and only heal 3.6% more slowly (and again, this on the latter setup compared former, not both to the base)

 

Bear in mind that this doesn't necessarily mean repair kits are objectively better than extractors. If you're just standing on your own orb by yourself or while you're shooting someone from afar, they almost are just better, but if you're both competing for an orb then the orb is going to last the same amount of time for both players either way. This means if we've got a player with an extractor and a repair kit both standing on an orb, they're both going to heal the same amount since they have the same heal rate and the same amount of time to heal, and in that sense the basic extractor is better since you're using less slots for the same effect. However, that's assuming you're both on it for the whole time which is unlikely.

 

The real issue is that the existence of this trait in repair kits allows you to basically equip almost four basic extractors at once if you really want, a type of stacking players really shouldn't have access to. With the largest kit and extractor, which is five slots, you almost get the same healing rate as you would with four basic extractors, and on top of that can heal at that rate for a significantly longer period of time, thus compensating for the fifth slot used. To compare, imagine being able to wear four pieces of composite armor at the same time. That's a 60% damage reduction until you get your first kill. With that kind of armor, a scout would effectively have as much lifespan as a predator or raider, as those each have around 60% more hp. You just shouldn't be able to stack parts like that, and the fact that medkits increase your healing rate sounds like a fluke. Your healing rate should remain constant with medkits, what they should do is make your mech remove less of the orb per second. Extractors in general might end up needing a subtle nerf to not outpower medkits after that though.

 

Edit; I typically refereed to armor as "hp" and in turn refereed to the sum of your defense bonuses as "armor" even though armor is the word for hp in this game. Sorry if that's misleading.


Edited by Acguy, 22 December 2016 - 03:22 PM.

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#2
Call_Me_Ishmael

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#3
ArchMech

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tl:dr

summarize in three to 5 sentences or gtfo pl0x 

trolol (three to 5)


Edited by ArchMech, 22 December 2016 - 03:47 PM.

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#4
DeeRax

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tl:dr

summarize in three to 5 sentences or gtfo pl0x 

trolol (three to 5)

Get an adult's attention span or gtfo pl0x

trolol


Edited by DeeRax, 22 December 2016 - 04:00 PM.

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#5
EM1O

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yes.  this is old news.

2013 old news.

but i like it. heh.

:thumbsup:

 

edit because i'm rekt:  most of my mechs have either

1.  (because numbers) extr+advrepairkit+4slot orbs+1slot whatever in items & ints

2.  (more of numbers)  basic extr+repkit+3 slots of somewhat (AC or evasive+basicPS) or failsafe and basic deflectors for Coop or DM.

3.  setup these rigs in separate mechs *as in several of any breed* so you can fast switch without garage bumping.

 

whatever blose your nose.  :yes:


Edited by EM1O, 22 December 2016 - 04:06 PM.

#:  chown -R us ./base

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#6
Acguy

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tl:dr

summarize in three to 5 sentences or gtfo pl0x 

trolol (three to 5)

 

The second paragraph and a half alone explains it in full in about five entrances, I know how to write an abstract.

 

 

yes.  this is old news

 

Old news that they work this way or just old news that orblording is powerful? You'd think that if it were old news they'd have already fixed repair kits so that they weren't extractors anymore.



#7
Amidatelion

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Old news that they work this way or just old news that orblording is powerful? You'd think that if it were old news they'd have already fixed repair kits so that they weren't extractors anymore.

 

Believe me.

 

We've been over this.

 

Hundreds, hundreds of times. It hasn't been fixed. A nerf was applied to the console version, but nothing that addressed the core problem.

 

Now wait until he realizes that dropped orbs give more HP than death orbs!

 

But seriously, this is in part why I don't think orblord can be fixed with pure number crunching. The interaction of the three offenders (extractor, repair kit, item orb) are the issue, not any numbers you can apply to them. The consoles received a massive nerf to orbs and orblord, but even that hasn't fixed them. I would say that the PC community would be pleased with the balance of orblord at this junction, but would rapidly notice that the nerf did not affect the fact that they are still the single best choices for items and internals to the point where everything else is a secondary consideration (with a few niche exceptions that I won't go into here).  They break the repairing mechanic, the one that requires you to leave combat to restore your primary resource and allow you to leverage that resource to overcome what you should not be able to by the metric of all other internal mechanics

 

Just fiddling with numbers isn't going to balance this thing. The very interaction of the item and internals needs to be changed and probably reworked from the ground up.


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#8
CZeroFive

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Old news that they work this way or just old news that orblording is powerful? You'd think that if it were old news they'd have already fixed repair kits so that they weren't extractors anymore.

 

Orblording is addressed in console. The rates for extractors and repair kits are significantly lower, orbs still drain when you're at full HP, and overall they aren't as big as a problem. We're in a code freeze for the PC platform right now. PC hasn't seen an update in a number of years and contains significantly different balancing than console.

 

Otherwise - yes - this issue would be addressed already.


Edited by CZeroFive, 22 December 2016 - 04:51 PM.


#9
Acguy

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Just fiddling with numbers isn't going to balance this thing. The very interaction of the item and internals needs to be changed and probably reworked from the ground up.

 

I wasn't suggesting just numeric changes, unless all you're getting at is how all nerfs thus far have been purely numeric. Personally I wouldn't mind repair kits just being tossed completely, but if you wanted to keep them from directly stacking with extractors (albeit still working well with them), you would have to make it so that your hp/s while standing on an orb is unchanged by them, and instead make them only decrease the amount of orb you remove per second as you stand over one. If you're getting 115% instead of just 100%, you should have to stand there for 115% of the time instead of just 100%.

 

On the subject of testing things though, can someone explain the fusor to me? If I get an instantaneous double kill, will that just make the effect last twice as long, regenerate twice as fast, or do nothing? In other words, does getting a kill while the ability is active add to the duration, stack the effect, or just reset the duration?

 

Edit;

 

So it's understood that this, specifically, is one of the bigger issues? Is this specifically how they were nerfed on console or did they just get some general nerf? Were extractors or healing orbs also nerfed?


Edited by Acguy, 22 December 2016 - 04:54 PM.


#10
CZeroFive

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I wasn't suggesting just numeric changes, unless all you're getting at is how all nerfs thus far have been purely numeric. Personally I wouldn't mind repair kits just being tossed completely, but if you wanted to keep them from directly stacking with extractors (albeit still working well with them), you would have to make it so that your hp/s while standing on an orb is unchanged by them, and instead make them only decrease the amount of orb you remove per second as you stand over one. If you're getting 115% instead of just 100%, you should have to stand there for 115% of the time instead of just 100%.

It's not that big of a deal in consoles because of the values and slots available. If you forego any other internals, and use the best combination available (3-slot repair kit which is 15%, plus 3-slot extractor, which is 10% in consoles) you still are missing out on other internals (like Heavy Armor, a new internal for console that adds a flat 5% damage reduction while providing a 35% movement penalty) and do not get as good as a benefit as PC does right now.



#11
Amidatelion

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On the subject of testing things though, can someone explain the fusor to me? If I get an instantaneous double kill, will that just make the effect last twice as long, regenerate twice as fast, or do nothing? In other words, does getting a kill while the ability is active add to the duration, stack the effect, or just reset the duration?

 

Fusor double kills simply reset the duration.

 

It's not that big of a deal in consoles because of the values and slots available. If you forego any other internals, and use the best combination available (3-slot repair kit which is 15%, plus 3-slot extractor, which is 10% in consoles) you still are missing out on other internals (like Heavy Armor, a new internal for console that adds a flat 5% damage reduction while providing a 35% movement penalty) and do not get as good as a benefit as PC does right now.

 

Bro, I love you and everything you've done for this community in the past months, but no one in their right mind is gonna take that, for reasons you stated in that post. I think someone in EU had access to this from the Sharpshooter package that unlocked everything... and promptly dropped it. 35% movement penalty is crippling.


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#12
wischatesjesus

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35% movement penalty is crippling.

 

Not totally clear on what a 35% movement penalty means. 65% boost/walk speed? Dodge speed/distance/cool down?


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#13
Silverfire

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Nerfing numbers does not remove the core problem, the fundamental issue with orblording.  The concept remains in the game, albeit in a weaker state than it used to be, but it's still there.


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#14
Elite_is_salty

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Bro, I love you

Wait ... amid doesn't love ... who is this? give us amid back!


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#15
Elite_is_salty

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Bro, I love you

 

Wait ... amid doesn't love ... who are you? give us amid back!


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#16
Acguy

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Heavy Armor, a new internal for console that adds a flat 5% damage reduction while providing a 35% movement penalty

 

... I'm not even sure I'd use a flat 5% armor part without the 35% movement penalty when I could get 10% while boosting dodging with deflectors. And that's assuming both of them take up single-slots, if the heavy armor took up multiple I'd most definitely not use it.

 

On the contrary though, it would be pretty bad if you could stack it with deflectors, so it's probably good to incorporate something which works against them.

 

It's not that big of a deal in consoles because of the values and slots available. If you forego any other internals, and use the best combination available (3-slot repair kit which is 15%, plus 3-slot extractor, which is 10% in consoles) you still are missing out on other internals and do not get as good as a benefit as PC does right now.

 

Now to be fair, I guess I've seen people take more time to say "no".

 

Look, just in general, you don't want to have options which are overly comparable. Let's take the health and absorption stats in dark souls iii for instance; in ds3, you've got the option to equip a ring which gives you 10% more health, or a ring which reduces incoming physical damage by around 8% (and for those of you who play the game, I know it's typically said to be 15, but the effect is halved in pvp). Ignoring healing, you can pretty easily see that one is objectively superior to the other, which makes the other one either A) a stack item, or B) pointless (and in this case it's B, the ring of steel protection is more or less garbage). You don't want things that are too similar. Medkits working well with extractors might not necessarily be bad, but they should do something unique.

 

Look at the actual numbers you're presented here; a 15% rep kit which takes up 3 slots, and a 10% extractor which takes up 3 as well. If medkits on console work the same way as the PC kits (which you haven't denied), then the 15% kit is literally better than the 10% extractor in every single way. From the tests I did in the OP, it seems that increasing the amount of HP you gain from an orb does not increase the amount ot fime required to consume it. Speed is consumption divided by time. If consumption is increased by 15% and time is held constant, that means consumption-speed is going to be increased by 15%. A 15% medkit IS a 15% extractor, only you're also able to extract for a longer period of time. Why would anyone use a 10% extractor over that? It's essentially worse in every single way. At best you could point out that the extractor affects EU stations, but those aren't even in every game mode. As far as repair orbs go, you heal slower, and you heal less.


Edited by Acguy, 22 December 2016 - 07:53 PM.

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#17
CZeroFive

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At best you could point out that the extractor affects EU stations, but those aren't even in every game mode. As far as repair orbs go, you heal slower, and you heal less.

 

That's the point of the extractor. It affects EU stations in that gamemode. So you'd put it on for that gamemode. It also stacks with the Repair Kit, so you would want to put it on if you want to get the most benefits out of orbs at the expense of depleting the orb faster. You cannot equip two repair kits. The extractor is there to increase the benefit at a cost of not using any other internal.

 

The value increased with the internal is the EffectTransferRatio variable.

 

From our internal comments:

// this is the direct multiplier to find the amount of energy increase.  A value of 0.1 would be a +10% increase in transferred energy

A repair orb has a specific value of 'energy' before it becomes depleted. Both Extractor and Repair kit can be equipped at the same time, we do a for loop to get the values and adjust the output value if both are equipped.

 

Repair kits additionally do not drain the orb faster in addition to providing a bonus to the drain rate. Extractors do. We apply Extractor bonuses/penalties first, then the repair kit bonuses. Two repair kits of different tiers cannot be equipped, so you are forced to pick the best combination for what you're looking to accomplish for internal bonuses.

The benefit of picking an extractor on console is purely for EU stations in Siege right now in addition to the benefit/downside from repair orb pickup.

 

The only thing we have considered is reversing the drain effects on internals; ie;

Repair Kits drain more energy out of an orb, and heal more per energy unit transferred.

Extractors drain slower, heal slightly less but sustain better.

 

I should also mention there's a 4-slot repair kit with 20% EffectTransferRatio in consoles, but it does take up 4 slots which is the downside in itself. The goal with that is to allow for 1-slot internals and 2-slot internals to see more use.

 

As for which one you should use, they are situational right now. As all internals should be.


Edited by CZeroFive, 22 December 2016 - 09:23 PM.


#18
Acguy

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Repair kits additionally do not drain the orb faster in addition to providing a bonus to the drain rate. Extractors do. 

 

You are correct to say that repair kits do not cause the orb to disappear faster. HOWEVER, they cause your health to re-appear just as quickly as an extractor would make it re-appear. Let me be clear; the speed at which you heal over time IS NOT the same as the speed with which the orb disappears. With a 15% extractor and a 15% repair kit, the rate at which the orb disappears will be faster on the extractor (it goes away sooner), but the rate at which you actually heal will be identical on both (your hp/s while the orb is present is identical on both). This means that, while standing on an orb, the 15% repair kit is healing you faster than the 10% extractor, and on top of that it's ALSO healing you for longer. Outside of EU game modes, the only advantage an extractor offers is that your healing orb goes off the radar sooner. The healing potential and healing speed are both lower.

 

If extractors really are intended just for EU game modes, why bother making it affect the rate at which you consume healing orbs? I mean it's just hard for me to believe in general that we're expected to situationally swap out internals in general when you have to leave the match to do so.

 

Either way, this is what I'm suggesting your logic should look more like

 

- while a player (player A) is close enough to a repair orb (repair orb B)

{

- - player A's armor increases by HR*(1 + ext)

- - //where HR is the base rate you heal at while on an orb, and ext is the % increase in healing rate from extractors

- - repair orb B's energy depletes by DR*(1/(1- ext + med))

- - //where DR is the base rate at which an orb disappears, and med is the % increase in hp gained from an orb

}

 

not that I know how it's applied to the game as a whole or what language its written in, this is just how the math should crunch out. You'd also obviously need to keep the logic which prevented you from healing past max health and which caused the orb to die once energy is 0.


Edited by Acguy, 22 December 2016 - 10:36 PM.


#19
wischatesjesus

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We have known this to be the case for years, by the way.

 

If you increase armor pulled per repair charge percent but don't change the repair charge percentage pulled per second (as it appears to function right now) then you end up increasing rate. You would have to build a negative percentage-per-second stat into the internal to compensate for this.


Edited by wischatesjesus, 22 December 2016 - 10:03 PM.

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#20
Acguy

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You would have to build a negative percentage-per-second stat into the internal to compensate for this.

 

It wouldn't need to be a unique stat. The only thing medkits need to do is increase the amount of time you canstand on an orb without killing it via decreasing the rate at which the orb vanishes while you heal on it. Bear in mind that the energy an orb loses per second DOES NOT AFFECT the amount of health gained by the player per second.

 

-though I think I did do something slightly wrong with my math in the prior post, with just a 15% kit you'd remove the 85% of the orb per second compared to what you normally would, which in turn means you'd be able to heal for 117.6% of the normal time as opposed to just 115% of the normal time (the normal time being 100%). There's something I need to flip over or something. Same principle should be applied though.

 

Edit; figured out what I did wrong

 

DR*(1 + ext - med) needs to be replaced with DR*(1/(1- ext + med))

 

(prior post has been edited to amend this)


Edited by Acguy, 22 December 2016 - 10:33 PM.


#21
Morquedeas

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Orblording is addressed in console. The rates for extractors and repair kits are significantly lower, orbs still drain when you're at full HP, and overall they aren't as big as a problem. We're in a code freeze for the PC platform right now. PC hasn't seen an update in a number of years and contains significantly different balancing than console.

 

Otherwise - yes - this issue would be addressed already.

 

How is then that the Scanner is still unchanged on consoles then (as far as I know)?  That item, regardless of being locked on certain mechs or not, is just as, if not more imbalanced than orb lording builds.  There is a reason they are so stigmatized by most of the veteran community.  I'm really hoping something will be done before the PC patch hits.

 

As for the orblording changes on console, I really can say how successful they are till I've played with them.



#22
TangledMantis

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...PC hasn't seen an update in a number of years and contains significantly different balancing than console.

 

Otherwise - yes - this issue would be addressed already.

 

How much balance difference does there need to be? Xbone and PS4 have expanded keyboard and mouse support on the horizon. If the game is being tamed due to controller use, those with a couple hundred extra to spend are going to dominate on console.



#23
Acguy

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How much balance difference does there need to be? Xbone and PS4 have expanded keyboard and mouse support on the horizon. If the game is being tamed due to controller use, those with a couple hundred extra to spend are going to dominate on console.

 

I don't think he meant to imply that there ought to be a difference between PC and console balance, just that there simply was one (due to a code freeze).

 

And as far as silver lining goes, kbm players should have less of an advantage over controller players in hawken than they would in games without turn-speed caps. Not to say it'll be negligible.



#24
TangledMantis

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I don't think he meant to imply that there ought to be a difference between PC and console balance, just that there simply was one (due to a code freeze).

 

And as far as silver lining goes, kbm players should have less of an advantage over controller players in hawken than they would in games without turn-speed caps. Not to say it'll be negligible.

 

There are mechanics in the game that allow you to break the turn cap (somewhat) 

 

Even on console I would rather be aiming with a mouse than a clumsy set of joysticks. Ive played FPS over the years on console - originally even more than on PC - and although I got pretty good with a controller, nothing beats the PC interface.



#25
Acguy

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Even on console I would rather be aiming with a mouse than a clumsy set of joysticks. Ive played FPS over the years on console - originally even more than on PC - and although I got pretty good with a controller, nothing beats the PC interface.

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

I actually went and installed the game on console just to look at it (couldn't even get into a co-op tdm match for some reason), whats the mech-web thing? Is there a specific order you need to buy mechs in? Do you get discounts if you buy them in some sort of order along the web? Is it just something thats supposed to look flashy?



#26
Amidatelion

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Couldn't agree more.

 

I actually went and installed the game on console just to look at it (couldn't even get into a co-op tdm match for some reason), whats the mech-web thing? Is there a specific order you need to buy mechs in? Do you get discounts if you buy them in some sort of order along the web? Is it just something thats supposed to look flashy?

 

It was supposed to look flashy, but the damn thing lags when I try to zoom and navigate through it.  

 

And yeah, there's a mech progression. Phenomenally irritating when I just want to test the Vytro.


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#27
Acguy

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And yeah, there's a mech progression.

 

Dear god. 

 

Are we expected to keep our mechs on PC when we get updated? Should I buy certain things in order to start off farther down the tree?



#28
Morquedeas

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They said we would keep our mechs as they are.  If they re-implement alternative primaries properly the issue of "legacy" mechs won't be a thing, so getting all the mechs prior to the patch wouldn't be such a big thing.

 

Honestly I wouldn't expect the PC patch for AT LEAST another 2 months so you've got plenty of time if you want to focus on unlocking all the mechs to bypass the unlock grid thing.



#29
Acguy

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They said we would keep our mechs as they are.  If they re-implement alternative primaries properly the issue of "legacy" mechs won't be a thing, so getting all the mechs prior to the patch wouldn't be such a big thing.

 

Honestly I wouldn't expect the PC patch for AT LEAST another 2 months so you've got plenty of time if you want to focus on unlocking all the mechs to bypass the unlock grid thing.

 

Yeah but that doesn't seem like it would work in some cases. Take PC assault and crt compared to console. On PC, you've got cr, Assault (has a tow) and assault G2 (two vulcans and vytro parts), but on console you've got crt, crt G2, Assault (two vulcans this time) and Assault G2 (you can't even buy vytro parts for it). What really happens to those? Is my assault's tow going to get turned into a vulcan? Is PC assault just the console crt G2? Will my current G2 assault get turned into G1?

 

I also just played on console for a while and it honestly felt horrendus. Normally on PC there's that one guy one the enemy team in a zerker who just hovers around speedkilling anyone who can't aim and speed-dying to anyone who's smart enough to detonate their tow rockets, but on console that's literally everyone and they just get away with it. Not to mention noone knows how to play siege. Maybe it's just because I'm technically a smurf though.

 

The menus are also horrible. If I scroll through the three weapons on a mech I haven't bought, it asks me if I want to buy the mech every single time I press up or down on the control pad. On top of that, if you're navigating the scoreboard etc after a match and you press the side button on your pad, it'll throw out one of your holo taunts even though you're just navigating the menu. 



#30
nepacaka

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Yeah but that doesn't seem like it would work in some cases. Take PC assault and crt compared to console. On PC, you've got cr, Assault (has a tow) and assault G2 (two vulcans and vytro parts), but on console you've got crt, crt G2, Assault (two vulcans this time) and Assault G2 (you can't even buy vytro parts for it). What really happens to those? Is my assault's tow going to get turned into a vulcan? Is PC assault just the console crt G2? Will my current G2 assault get turned into G1?

well. 
CRT on consoles in reality is a just rebalanced assault. so, RLD just turned salt into different mech.

for some history, before ascention patch, CRT and assault will be a "clones". it will be just two the same mechs with equal stats and weapons. so, people may ask something like "which sense is buyind assault, because TV is the same mech?"
so, devs make they different. and now assault just better (i mean, on PC), cuz have all important stats as very high. high walking speed, boost speed, high HP (if compared with other B-class) so, it is imba.
my own opinion, assault should be nerfed, or swaped HP with CRT. so, on consoles devs just reworking assault. and leave you only CRT. CRT it is just copy of assault. and they no need nerf it. 
in PC reality, CRT is not bad, but it look like "already nerfed" assault. less HP, less speed. ok.
 

What really happens to those? Is my assault's tow going to get turned into a vulcan? Is PC assault just the console crt G2? Will my current G2 assault get turned into G1?

 

No. No. No. No.
nobody know what RLD doing when/if they bring console-patch to PC.
i think, RLD just leave you old mechs as is. obviously, old mechs can't be competitve with current console G2 because they just have lower speed/HP (but they have smaller dodge time). my own opinion, you just got new game, with useless mechs in hangar, where you need again leveling all mechs and open G2 variants. But if you want, you can play on your "old G2 assault".
 

The menus are also horrible. If I scroll through the three weapons on a mech I haven't bought, it asks me if I want to buy the mech every single time I press up or down on the control pad. On top of that, if you're navigating the scoreboard etc after a match and you press the side button on your pad, it'll throw out one of your holo taunts even though you're just navigating the menu. 

Come to the corner. Hug your knees. Cry.


Edited by nepacaka, 29 December 2016 - 10:18 PM.

Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#31
Morquedeas

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Chances are CRT and the Assault will be as they are on the consoles right now, with the G2 upgrades and everything.  I saw a player on twitch who had Neif with a miniflak + SMC so I'm guessing they've started to implement the alternate weapons, I'm guessing for the double primary mechs you just get choices of more primaries.

 

Honestly the Assault has been one of the best mechs for a really long time so I don't mind it getting the slightly less good CRT stats and have that be the new "Assault."

 

Zerk has also been one of the best mechs for a really long time so I could stand to see it get its comeuppance.  ALTHOUGH, what really confuses me is why they made A TON of sweeping balance changes with no apparent reason or thought process, so who knows where balance will be when that hits PC.  I can't imagine changing the stats of almost every mech all at once could be good for balance though.



#32
Acguy

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Personally I wouldn't mind having my current assault mech having the fred stats just thrown on it, but I really wouldn't want to have the tow replaced with a vulcan XT.






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