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Opening Up Anti-Botting Procedures to the Community

- - - - - anti-botting cheating esp augmentation anti-cheat system passive anti-cheat system

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#1
Cytor

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Botting has seen an increase over the past few weeks, as many have noticed. There could very well be too many botters for the current anti-botting system to handle.

 

Here's a topic that will hopefully prove some usefulness towards the current dilemma we are facing with botters.

 

We are fortunate to have a *generally* trustworthy player base in terms of defeating the exploiters and botters. Many have the intent to establish a report via the ticket submission system, and desire for them to have their account(s) banned in some form. This system works, but it does not work well enough for scalability, and also fails to meet the demands of our player base.

 

Here's an idea. Why not open up the entire anti-botting process and its procedures to the community? Community-controlled bans are probably going through your head right now; or unfavorable odds against an innocent individual through sheer numbers imposes swift action against said individual. That can be avoided through a filtered and buffered, if you will, contact system.

 

This is what it could boil down to:

 

The Procedures

 

Procedure # 1 - If there are a certain amount of reports (i.e. tickets from the support site) aimed towards a certain user(s) account or identity, this procedure will automatically trigger Procedure #2. Such reports can still be examined by a qualified person.

 

Procedure # 2 - The system will establish communication using a list of verified (i.e. valid users) users through E-mail, forums, ticket, et cetera. The communication details are automatically generated based on the report that Procedure #1 found eligible. Details of the message will—or rather, should—go along the lines of a request for information / evidence (if any), some questions regarding if you've played with the user(s) in question for any amount of time, and / or a link to evidence that the original reporters provided to the ticket submission system; for you to examine and answer questions pertaining to said evidence. The next procedure is automatically triggered once the system has finished sending out messages to those valid users from the community.

 

Procedure # 3The system is now waiting for responses. Once there have been enough responses, the system will send the results to an Administrator (i.e. the team at Reloaded). The team should then be able to base their final action from the information, and hopefully make informed decisions about the reported account that's flagged for an investigation. The results are not shared, due to Reloaded's privacy policy on accounts.

 

Procedure # 4 (implementation is optional) The system collects relevant information regarding the identity of the reported account. What is collected is entirely up to the discretion of Reloaded (within their own privacy policy), but should allow for a basic unique identifier. The system is then programmed to recognize the characteristics of the unique identifier, and can automatically ban the user for up to 24 hours based on the offense. After a ban has automatically been applied, the system will notify an Administrator. The Administrator can manually check on things to ensure it's not a false positive. Although for this procedure to be triggered, there would have to be a manual ban in the first place for such an individual, as explained in Procedure # 3.

 

 

OR

 

- Add a right-click option to report players from within the game. Standard procedures will be used. Surprisingly effective.

 

 

FAQ

 

Q: How is this better than the current system already in place?

 

A: This system is designed to offload the tasks of those wishing to report players and those examining the reports, respectively. It follows the same characteristics of the current. If designed properly, it can handle the scale of botters better, and with future game updates, can be used in conjunction with another anti-cheat system.

 

 

Q: It is against Reloaded Games' privacy policy to share details about users, right?

 

A: Their privacy policy is assumed to be derived from, or is, this. Since there is no public front being established with any procedure, it avoids the issue of "call out" threads, as indicated by the Official Hawken Forum Rules. However, the procedures can be altered to avoid problems with this as well. There should be no personally identifiable information that is collected throughout the entire process. Evidence pertaining to a callsign, at best, a video, is essentially all that is provided. Obviously there will be a known fact about a certain user being lamented a botter/exploiter. Making it a public front on the forums should be disallowed, and is in fact, not allowed. Based on this, there shouldn't be a problem with sending information only about their callsign and account to certain community members. And even then, a verified list is in place for such community members.

 

 

Q: Why?

 

A: We need something better than what we have for anti-cheat. With a future update, perhaps it will render the cheats null, but if the game gains popularity, there will always be a threat of botters out there. This system can absolutely do a decent job at handling botters while retaining the current system's characteristics. By taking advantage of the community at large, why not at this point?

 

 

Q: How does this system avoid stigma, while also ensuring no unfair, community-controlled actions against any innocent individual?

 

A: Due to the nature of callsign creation, it's incredibly easy and fast to create bogus call signs. Many botters already have been banned, and the nature of their existence is arguably non-existent in the first place. As such, no stigma would be associated with that person for the majority of the time. It's incredibly rare, if at all, to see a valid, community member use an aimbot or some form of augmentation, and to receive reports about them. Regardless, this is why each requested response from a valid community member is randomly selected each run, so as to not favor certain individuals and their judgement. Telemetry can tell what these valid members have contributed to, and can also assist in determining their intent based on their record. Insight is key here, and it's probably best left up to Reloaded for gaining it ultimately.

 

 

---

 

I think Reloaded should recognize the community for what we've done, and our relationship with Hawken. We are dedicated, some show it, others don't. We want to see this game become great and rise from the ground, especially after The Fall. This community, as small as it is, is actually quite intelligent and reasonable, and it shows. I also believe there are a handful of users who have the capacity to make sound judgement, especially given their experience and desire to provide a fair gameplay experience.

 

TL;DR - There is none. This is a serious topic, and deserves a super serious read.

 

 

Also! Freezepage link for the uninformed (if any).


Edited by Cytor, 20 January 2016 - 11:44 PM.

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#2
nepacaka

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I agree with many, but

- Add a right-click option to report players from within the game. Standard procedures will be used. Surprisingly effective.

Sometimes people have paranoia and offending in hax everyone. Sometimes even I got a "hax called", despite the fact that is clearly visible how many time I miss my bullets. I don't think it is really working. Ppl just offend each other without any reason.

It should be totally automatic system, which compare data on servers, and if server get wrong values from game client, or numbers which values not match or higher than normal (speed hack), automatically ban account.
I mean, banned ppl can create new account, trying go in fight again and will be momentary banned again.

Or something like this. Devs just need got some cheats, see how it working (I think it is very close to original U3) and added some compared mechanism in code, for values which cheats can change. As I know, U3 don't have his own anti-cheat, and probably any game at U3 engine don't have AC, but maybe I'm wrong. =/
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#3
DerMax

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The Procedures

 

Procedure # 1 - Do nothing.

 

Procedure # 2 - Wait for Reloaded to implement an anti-cheat system, because if they don't, the game is not going anywhere.

 


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#4
Morquedeas

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Yeah I've definitely noticed an influx of hackers in the past week.  Actually just got out of a game with one who had his previous account banned, and just made another with the same name but slightly different characters (I'm sure many of you know who I speak of).

 

Honestly I wasn't aware there was any anti-hacker system currently, unless you refer to the report system.  But last time I reported a player, the ticket is still open after over a month now so I assume that doesn't accomplish anything.

 

Honestly anything would be better than what we have now (nothing?).  Rampant hacking is one of the things that can ACTUALLY KILL a game completely, as I'm sure some of you have witnessed in other online games before.  It would be a bit ironic for Hawken to last this long only to be ruined now, and pretty disappointing. Hopefully reloaded will move their butts and do something before its too late.



#5
CraftyDus

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Unless it's exceedingly obvious, like breaking the turn cap wantonly and speed cheat with abandon, I might not want full over watch considering some Hawken kids propensity for lacking restraint regarding a community ban system for cheats.

I've found maybe a handful of players in Hawken I'd really want timed demos from on a really subtle ticket.

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#6
PoopSlinger

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Didn't Omeganull make a big push one time to get somebody banned for being too gud?  Then Rei was all like "thats my alt you dofuss".  I feel like that would happen again in your system.


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Come on Crafty, you have been officially called out on your lies. Your online reputation is at stake here, this is just like an old school street race running for pink slips. Its run what you brung and hope its enough. Put up or shut the fuzzy bunny up.


#7
nepacaka

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Some facts about report button :3

https://m.youtube.co...h?v=NwfI7Aq0z9Q

Report moment in the end of video is epic xD
I want it in hawken... Actually not :P

Edited by nepacaka, 21 January 2016 - 06:21 AM.

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#8
I2DI

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The ideas are not half-bad. But the problem is not the hackers themselves rather than the of skill diversity in current player base. Sorry to say that, but it's way too early to implement any of those possible changes.


I simply cease to believe that something is OP just because it's OP.


#9
The_Silencer

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I think the automation factor against the real offenders should be as much automated as possible, with a plus of community feedback/interaction/support to (hopefully) improve the overall quality of it..

 

That basically to not have individuals from the Dark Side (so to speak) abusing of the sub-system nor messing with the real, fair and useful data..

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Edit: 1 Like given to the OP for his/her insterest in solving such a "pretty" relevant issue in our online gaming scene.


Edited by The_Silencer, 21 January 2016 - 10:48 AM.

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#10
crockrocket

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Reloaded should step up and actually issue bans when there is clear evidence. Even if they aren't doing that, this is not something that should be the communities jurisdiction. Too easy for false positives to come up or politics to get involved.


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#11
StubbornPuppet

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There could very well be too many botters for the current anti-botting system to handle.

 

Say what?  What current anti-botting system?


To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#12
DM30

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Say what? What current anti-botting system?


There were posts quite a while back (pretty sure on the old forums) that stated that there was some background system in place that apparently detected suspicious players and flagged them for the devs to investigate. Coming to a verdict and actually taking action were still entirely manual from the sounds of things, and from what the devs said they still relied quite heavily on additional evidence from players.

Don't know if that's still active or what Reloaded's policy with it is. Either way, Hawken does technically have/used to have an anti-cheat system. It's just...limited, it seems.

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#13
Nightfirebolt

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We don't need this. It would become irrelevant when the next client patch hits, which will supposedly happen in the first half of 2016 (according to capnjosh).


Edited by Nightfirebolt, 21 January 2016 - 03:44 PM.

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#14
6ixxer

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I hope so.

#15
devotion

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TL;DR - There is none.

tl;dr: tribunal from league of legends

 

 

Didn't Omeganull make a big push one time to get somebody banned for being too gud?  Then Rei was all like "thats my alt you dofuss".  I feel like that would happen again in your system.

it would certainly happen, but the idea is that if the community can filter anything at all out, then it removes that much more of the onus from reloaded. it's a system of escalations with built-in fail safes; worst case scenario, reloaded takes full charge of the case and reviews it independently of the community, which is what happens anyway.

 

building infrastructure like this is a good long term approach to decreasing workload for reloaded, but given the size of the staff and the pressure from the community for updates, i can't imagine they're in a good position to push out qualify of life improvements over straight content.



#16
CounterlogicMan

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This sort of proposed system only leads to empowerment of toxic players and players who assume anyone who kills them is a hacker. I think the latter is where most of these "Hackers are on the rise in Hawken", claims come from. Anyone past a certain MMR experience consistent hackusations. Baba-ji help us if these players "who cry wolf" are given the power to ban players they think are hacking by tribunal. On top of this, the sort of system proposed is resource intensive and take a lot of planning and consideration to implement properly.

 

Come to think of it...I don't know of a single game that has a good community enforcement system. Maybe Heroes of the Storm is the closest to a good one, but it isn't for hackers it is for toxic players in general. If a player is reported consistently for chat abuse/feeding/etc they are lumped in with other toxic players in MM and also muted so they cant chat. Works pretty well when it is used. But community enforcement of toxic players is a lot easier and hands off. Community enforcement of anti-cheat is a lot more susceptible to abuse and punishment of the innocent.

 

Hackers in Hawken do get banned eventually if you report them and provide evidence. Just remember it may take awhile due to the resources available to Reloaded. 


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#17
The_Silencer

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I think that actual pilot careers do gather a number of stats good enough to reveal who really cheat in the game. Although as it's been said already, taking too much into account end-user reports could be not so efficient, occasionally and unfairly abused... smurfs are very relevant about this subject..


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#18
StubbornPuppet

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This sort of proposed system only leads to empowerment of toxic players and players who assume anyone who kills them is a hacker. I think the latter is where most of these "Hackers are on the rise in Hawken", claims come from.

 

Do you still feel that way after the recent waves of video proof from so many different players?


To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#19
CounterlogicMan

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Do you still feel that way after the recent waves of video proof from so many different players?

 

TL;DR Yes I do. The "rise of hackers" is almost certainly all alternative accounts of 1 or 2 people trying to ruin Hawken for people because they feel wronged by Reloaded over APB. This is then blown out of proportion by hackusers and people wanting to bash on the devs. 

 

 

Long Version:

Hackers in a game like Hawken seem to come in waves. Usually are only a few players who make a bunch of accounts to run hacks on. They run around and hack on each account until it is banned or they get bored. All the while trying to grief as many players as they can, because to them this is fun. Then they move on to the next game, unless you give them a reason to keep griefing. Sometimes the hackers have some vendetta against the developer or a group of players in the game. I think this recent small increase of hacking is just that. My friend who I just got into this game ran into the culprit. He sent me a text message with pictures of the hacker chatting about how he doesn't like reloaded and that is why he is hacking. He then went on to spam that Hawken hacks are available at an unreal hacks repository that I won't mention here.  Doing this undoubtedly in an attempt to get other players to try out the hacks. Will black out the names and edit this post with it later.

 

So yes there has been a small increase in hackers. No, they are not "On the rise" as many put with such hyperbole, as if hackers are becoming some sizable portion of the game's population. There has most certainly been a rise of hackusations in the game which are knee jerk reactions to the small increase of hacking perpetrated by, my guess one or two people who have a bone to pick with Reloaded. Every player that hackuses regularly, who has heard about these actual hackers, now feel they are justified in every hackusation and feeling angry at the developers. This is exacerbated even more if they happen to run into one of these hacking accounts. On top of this, people who don't usually listen to hackusers are now more likely too, regardless of evidence, because they might have seen someone else with evidence on the forums or have seen one of these hacking accounts first hand. Even though the accounts hacking are probably the same person, or part of a small group of hackers having a go at Hawken. The icing on the cake is the players who want any reason to bash reloaded that see this as an opportunity to do so. So yeah I do still feel that the vast majority of cries of hackers in Hawken are false accusations, probably even more so when there are small increases in hackers in the game. 

 

So if you see someone clearly hacking in game or even if you think someone might be hacking, record it and report it via support ticket. Running around the forums, public ts, irc, etc. typing "Hackers everywhere! They are on the rise! Hawken is ruined!" really doesn't do anything except make the problem seem much worse than it actually is. It also gives the hackers what they want, attention and salt of the community. 

 

I still don't feel community anti-hacking tribunals should be even considered in dealing with such a petty threat to the community/game.

 

 

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Edited by CounterlogicMan, 07 February 2016 - 03:14 AM.

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