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#1
Merl61

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Nothing really special here. Just wanted to throw something out there. Quite often people talk about a high level player coming in and ruining a low level match. It happens all of the time because the majority of the small remaining population is still what I would consider to be mediocre. This results in low average skill in most matches and means that when a "high level" player joins the game, they will most likely win.

All of this is probably not news to anyone here, but here comes the interesting part. Low level players have the opposite effect on high level matches. Rare as they are nowadays, high level matches DO still happen, and when they do, there will inevitably be anywhere between 1 and 3 players who just don't have what it takes to compete at that level. Invariably, whichever team has more of them loses, not unlike when the opposite is true with high level players.

I'm not really trying to make a huge point or a suggestion of any kind. We all know that this is simply a population issue that won't be fixed until there is an influx of new players and a second coming of the large number of highly skilled players who have almost entirely stopped playing. I just find it funny that this is a thing and wanted to share it with you all. Ggs. I'll see you on the battlefield.

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#2
Amidatelion

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The team with more high tier players wins.

 

The team with more low tier players loses.

 

A team with more high tier players will have less low tier players and will win.

 

A team with more low tier players will have less high tier players and will lose.

 

Not really sure what you're point out here, other than the obvious. Milges farm scrubs, end of story.


Edited by Amidatelion, 16 May 2016 - 12:52 PM.

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#3
DerMax

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Yeah, let me quote my post from one year ago:

 

 

So, now any player can get into any game via Quickmatch. This means, if there are no better servers at the moment — which, oddly enough, is quite often the case — complete newbs can get into 2300+ matches.

 

This completely ruins the fun for us vets. Even one newb can destroy the balance. I have to babysit these goofs and deal with their not understanding the game mechanics on a constant basis. Here are some of their favorite things to do:

 

- dodge right in front of me as I'm about to shoot my secondary, to make me deal massive damage to myself

- wander off into the enemy team and die needlessly, a lot

- do something stupid > require my help to escape > do another stupid thing > die > put me at risk (often gravely)

- reveal my position followed by the enemy team one-shotting me

- bodyblock me from escaping the enemy fire

 

etc.

 

Playing with new players on your team is really tiring. But I have to, because we usually have only one high-mmr server going in EU in the evenings.



#4
harmless_kittens

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I have been joining "1 Star" matches more and more recently just because I appreciate the honesty of someone who is good and has the MMR to show it more than I do the "smurf" parading around at 1400 MMR when their "main" is around 2500.  If I'm going to be over-matched I'd rather know it outright, personally.


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#5
Merl61

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Yeah, let me quote my post from one year ago:

Pretty much.

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#6
DemitronPrime

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I have been joining "1 Star" matches more and more recently just because I appreciate the honesty of someone who is good and has the MMR to show it more than I do the "smurf" parading around at 1400 MMR when their "main" is around 2500.  If I'm going to be over-matched I'd rather know it outright, personally.

 

And here inlays part of the problem....

 

I agree with several points raised here,

 

New Players CAN be annoying at times (specially when they step in front of my nador as im popping a buffed nade at 50% hp)

BUT!!

They are FAR less annoying than a High mmr player jumping on a smurf account and stomping because " they cant find a match on their main "

(p.s.. we ALL know that is a fuzzy bunny excuse for your smurfing to protect your overrated MMR)

 

 

Not really sure what you're point out here, other than the obvious. Milges farm scrubs, end of story.

 

In MY (not so humble sometimes) opinion that is about right...

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OBVIOUS facts,

 

come to think of it... amid, dont you pub stomp on your many smurf accounts quite frequently?


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#7
Call_Me_Ishmael

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Amidatelion, on 16 May 2016 - 3:50 PM, said:snapback.png

Not really sure what you're point out here, other than the obvious. Milges farm scrubs, end of story.

OBVIOUS facts,

 

come to think of it... amid, dont you pub stomp on your many smurf accounts quite frequently?

 

 

Uh... no.  Amid has only one account.  He sort of makes a point of not using an alt.

 

Crafty, on the other hand is a Hero of the Cylon.


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#8
DemitronPrime

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Uh... no.  Amid has only one account.  He sort of makes a point of not using an alt.

 

Crafty, on the other hand is a Hero of the Cylon.

 

 Woooosh....


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#9
Gyrocopter

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I think the only reason that people dislike more skilled players stomping more than they dislike new players sabotaging their team is because when people are doing comparatively well dragged down by unskilled players, they can easily claim superiority over the opponents. 

 

That said, I agree that there is often no way for a skilled player to enter a match without a smurf, and there is nothing an unskilled player can do to solve their end of the problem except gitgudscrub, leaving the only easy solution being the devs actually doing something. I have faith that they are doing something, but it is important for the devs to realize that the more time they wait, the more people lose faith, and the more their dwindling playerbase shrinks, which will inevitably reduce the speed at which the game can regain players when the devs are ready to unveil SUPER ULTRA HAWKEN 2.0 or whatever the fuzzy bunny they're going to do when they are finally ready to patch the game.



#10
HOHOHOSANTA

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Im mediocre :D!



#11
DemitronPrime

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Im better than Demitron


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#12
TheButtSatisfier

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I agree that there is often no way for a skilled player to enter a match without a smurf

 

That used to be true up until a year ago or so. Since then Reloaded has changed things so that any MMR player can queue up and have matchmaker drop them in the best available match - even if the server average is 1000 MMR below their own (and rarely, vice versa).

 

Now, there's no reason to have a smurf except to [a] play anonymously and/or [b] protect the MMR of another account. Technically there's [c] which is "I create smurfs because why the fuzzy bunny not". See: Crafty, EM1O.


Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 16 May 2016 - 04:31 PM.

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#13
DemitronPrime

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That used to be true up until a year ago or so. Since then Reloaded has changed things so that any MMR player can queue up and have matchmaker drop them in the best available match - even if the server average is 1000 MMR below their own (and rarely, vice versa).

 

Now, there's no reason to have a smurf except to [a] play anonymously and/or [b] protect the MMR of another account. Technically there's [c] which is "I create smurfs because why the fuzzy bunny not". See: Crafty, EM1O.

 

I love the way you guys are all pointing at crafty.... yet we all KNOW there are MANY other "smurfers" out there....

as to a and b... both are BS reasons... exfukincuses....

 

as too this "reverse" thing....

 

AS a rather experienced player that wants hawken to GROW it is in part my job to make NEW players feel welcome, to have them feel like my level of skill etc IS achievable...

THIS will ALWAYS be over-written by the " Imma vet I own this fuzzy bunny so fuzzy bunny you" attitude that ALOT of the older players display in game

 

as a WHOLE... the simple answer is...

Join a match, it is too low MMR for you, LEAVE and SEED a Server IN YOUR MMR, I have lost count of the amount of times i've been playing, server bounced and found that in every server I join there are 1-2 players WAY above everyone else,

IF one of them had joined a server and invited the other, they would probibly have a REALLY nice 3v3 in their own tier, but no, they like the tiny mmr gain they get from stomping...

 

as for picking on people that dont KNOW better...

 

You should be Ashamed of yourselves for that elitist pov ( IF APPLICABLE)


Edited by DemitronPrime, 16 May 2016 - 05:45 PM.

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#14
PsychedelicGrass

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Demitron what if you have no friends to start your own server with? :c
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What's the big fuzzy bunnyng deal? Lots of amazing people have committed suicide, and they turned out alright.

 


#15
DemitronPrime

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Demitron what if you have no friends to start your own server with? :c

 

 

make some.... maybe?

 

Considering the limited number of players... it shouldnt be hard

 

just dont piss everyone off like i do :P


Edited by DemitronPrime, 16 May 2016 - 06:47 PM.

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#16
Nov8tr

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make some.... maybe?

 

Considering the limited number of players... it shouldnt be hard

 

just dont piss everyone off like i do :P

LOL, you USE to piss me off. Now I get you. Well that and your attitude is miles better...............grin. :yes: hahaha


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"Nov8tr" is pronounced "INNOVATOR"

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#17
Flifang

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Yeah, I'm going to politely disagree. I could lose 10 games in a row to a smurfer on an enemy team, and it still wont nearly match the frustration of having a teammate get in my way once or twice in a match. Oh how I would enjoy friendly fire for those asshats that dodge right in front of me or decide to body block me from escaping. Or those people who take 20 damage and run a quarter mile to cover to heal while the rest of the team has to deal with the full enemy force. fuzzy bunny I'll take a -2 kill hit to my kdr if you let me kill these ass holes per kill 


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#18
DieselCat

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Whining, complaining and crying on both sides or just trying to make some kind of point here....I suppose it's a little childish to keep rehashing this when those that have been around for a long time, to even people for a short while,  understand the circumstances this game is in with a low and unhealthy player pop.

 

It is what it is atm...it may change or it might not, depending whatever it is Reloaded is doing with the game....So I'm assuming all the things mentioned above will continue to happen, whether they are right or wrong, until the devs do what needs to be done to bring in a new and stronger player base...

 

I hope it happens...have had some bad feeling as of late with all this talk about console development hoping to bring in new players....all I can think about is the move to Steam by ADH. It was highly praised at first but no progress was made later on to Hawken with patches, content, etc. for all the reasons that have been discussed ad nauseum.

 

So the Steam move,  we all know how that turned out....just hope Reloaded sticks to their word from in the beginning when they came onboard, saying to make Hawken a success. Without that promise I just don't see any new players coming onboard and staying and without that this issue of unbalanced matches due to disparity in player skill will never be resolved.......then the game may no longer be around to talk about these things.    


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Just Relax....and take life one game at a time....

Don't run to your death....walk

 

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#19
BariumBlue

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A bit frustrating is when i'm playing in an enjoyable 3v3 (or even less players), then the server fills up with low level players.

 

Even if all the lower servers are full, if there's enough players floating around it'd make more sense for the matchmaker to start a new server rather than stuffing people into servers where each half of the people don't want the other half.

 

If I were to put it into proposal format: 

Matchmaker would be more inclined to create new servers if X people of a similar level cannot find well-matched servers. If there aren't enough appropriate people to create a server with, the acceptable range to join increases, but slowly, slowly enough to generally ensure enough people will join the queue in the meantime for healthy server creation.

 

Also, matchmaker would prefer 4v4 or 5v5 matches, to leave acceptable wiggle room for people joining similar level servers so those who could not be part of the creation of a new server are not pigeonholed into inappropriate servers.


Edited by BariumBlue, 16 May 2016 - 07:26 PM.


#20
EM1O

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not sure no one beats me. 40 accounts.

i have memory issues so i mayhave forgottensoem. but notmany

 


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#21
Arkhaun

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I have been joining "1 Star" matches more and more recently just because I appreciate the honesty of someone who is good and has the MMR to show it more than I do the "smurf" parading around at 1400 MMR when their "main" is around 2500.  If I'm going to be over-matched I'd rather know it outright, personally.

 

my thoughts on stars in the server browser:

 

1 star: good players. Decent communication mostly

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2 star: the absolute saltiest crapfest of smurfs and artificially 1700 mmr mains with 45-50% win percentages

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3 star: Lies, preds and the occasional Nep joining late game

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(double dragon reference is Nep and HOHO when on the same team as SS)


Edited by Arkhaun, 16 May 2016 - 09:33 PM.

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SORRY CAPS

 

 

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#22
WmMoneyFrmMissouri

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Smurf accounts are the worst problem to ruining match maker. It's really that simple. A lot of people have smurfs and while the amount of mediocre players who smurf (never understood this) are a problem to balance, it's the high tier players who smurf that are the real cancer as they totally ruin any sort ability for MM to do its thing. A lot of people rant and rave about match maker but it's doing the best it can in light of this circumstance. While initially I had a lot of respect for these elite players I've realized now most of them got that high through some sort of bs angle, one of them being they never play their main and when they've tried new mechs (oh gawd the sniper smurfs make me want to puke) it's with these secondary accounts. For shame, especially since these people will be the first to moan about the lack of balance.

Newer players at least just don't know any better. I make a point of trying my best to assist these robros when I can. I think if everyone did this the average skill level would rise. Yes, body blocking your well placed emp is frustrating or getting in your way while you are running for your life can be infuriating as well but a lot of us forget in the distant past WE were those guys too. If it was less mememe and more wewewe things might improve around here. Maybe that's the observation everyone can take away from this one.
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#23
Arkhaun

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the smurfs that complain about new players or just blanket spam salt to their teams abt them being "noobs"

 when they themselves are basically doing it to themselves and are really just mad that their sketchy plans went awry

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SORRY CAPS

 

 

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#24
Tom_Neverwinter

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I don't always play hawken, but when I do;


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#25
HHJFTRU

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You gotta keep 'em separated.

Spoiler

 


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THANKS FOR THIS AWESOME GAME!

 


#26
DemitronPrime

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well that didnt take long.....


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#27
6ixxer

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I've noticed that the team with the most high pingers tends to lose.

I usually have to play out of region and contribute to said high pingers.
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#28
CrimsonKaim

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And that enlightment took 3 years? Jeez. :D

 

 

This is why I say we should disable the matchmaker until we have a good player base to actually get matched.  Free matches for every, low and high! After all, it is a beta, no?


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#29
ATX22

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Should've always been MM priority set by 1. Server gametype selected 2. Server has players / not full 3. Lowest ping server

 

Grouping people up by MMR sets any given game up to fail if the MM is configured to allow people way out of the MMR range to join in and/or there isn't anything preventing people from smurfing and trolling a server filled with less skilled players than said smurf.



#30
lo_spaghetto

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If thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee.

 

Smurf this noob that blah blah blah. Just blow mechs up. So what if you lose and lose some MMR? MMR ISN'T LYFE.


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#31
DemitronPrime

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This Global Ping idea intrests me...

 

matching people with the same pings no matter what region COULD be pretty cool


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#32
asipo

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happen in asia server
 
CASE1
6 player
- 1 pro
- 2 average
- 3 new
pro+2new vs 2average + 1new = pro carry the team but still lost
 
CASE2
and once in a while
3pro vs 3average even 6 of us ready before the match start

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#33
StubbornPuppet

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A bit frustrating is when i'm playing in an enjoyable 3v3 (or even less players), then the server fills up with low level players.

 

Even if all the lower servers are full, if there's enough players floating around it'd make more sense for the matchmaker to start a new server rather than stuffing people into servers where each half of the people don't want the other half.

...snip...

 

That's one of the biggest parts of the problem right there!

As I've pointed out before, if a person puts themselves in the queue for a game mode which has no active matches at the time, Hawken currently just leaves that player (or multiple players) sitting in limbo waiting to see if some other player goes into the server list, picks a server on that same game mode, and starts a match in it.  If that doesn't happen, people who went with the Queue option end up just wasting their time.

 

Hawken should be saying, "Oh, this guy has queued up for a Missile Assault match... hmm, nope, no MA matches open right now - so I'll create a match in the server closest to the first player in the queue and start filtering these players in."


To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 





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