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Weekly Update - 2015-05-08 -Matchmaker Updates and Some Charts

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#1
capnjosh

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Matchmaker and Server Browser changes are a hot topic.  Oh yes indeed :)

 

I've got some numbers and some tweaks I think we'll all agree are in order.  The goal right now for matchmaking is to tweak things enough that we can make out significant differences within a few days.  Then, we can adjust from there.  Of note, I have built out some consistent data sets we can look at over time to gauge what *actually* happened.

 

Some of these charts may not be screamingly clear enough.  Forgive me for now; I'll get better with time.

 

First up: We reduced the threshold that allows joining matches from the Server Browser.  We lowered the range from 500MMR difference to 300MMR difference.  More users experienced more cases where they couldn't join the selected match. This is also a slightly higher % of the population.  In graph form (the depressed section is actually due to data sampling reducing the raw number of data points, so ignore that part):

 

UY5e8wR.png

 

 

Next up: Differences between winning and losing teams (keep in mind these are indicators over time).  This indicates the matchmaker changes 2 days ago did have a tangible impact.  Winning teams on average have a higher kill spread within the team, and winning teams are getting more kills overall.  And, yes, I'd prefer to see that winner-loser kill gap tighten over time:

 

3ZAfJVF.png

 

 

Next up: % of Matches with various spreads in kills.  In short, the changes have resulted in more matches having larger overall kill spreads between the best and worst players:

 

GYWudna.png

 

 

What do we do from here?

 

1. Expand the MMR threshold back to 500, which is what it was before.

  -Granted, relatively few players actually encounter this.  However, for those that do, it's *really* annoying.  We'll leave at this value through the weekend and then review the data that comes in.

2. Increase the time we give the matchmaker to expand its criteria in search of suitable matches.

  - This may seem a bit unexpected, but what has been happening with the 30 second expansion time is that each expansion iteration is pretty large, netting a bunch of servers all of a sudden.  In that case, the code is having a hard time telling *which* of those servers is the "best".  By effectively reducing the possible number of servers it can net in the first iteration it actually gets some valid servers to match a player to, we can be more certain of getting the closest possible server.

  - I've increased it to 90 seconds (this means you will get a match at most 90 seconds after entering the matchmaking queue)

3. Watch the data and then iterate.

  - If we don't get satisfactory results over the next few weeks, then we will have to identify more drastic action that will require client and game server builds.  I'm hoping we can at least see a tangible overall improvement in things before then though.

 

 

What happened over the last 7 days:

1. Verified solution to load-related slowdowns

  - we should not have any more big drops in CCUs, even under heave load

2. Pioneer Private Server roll-out was completed.  Support is ongoing.

  - yes, those mice are going out soon - I'm taking the first batch to the post office today

3. First changes to the Matchmaker were implemented

  - Tuning the existing system will take about 2 weeks - we need enough time after each iteration to gather enough conclusive data

4. We built our first functioning Hawken client.  To make it more of a challenge, we built a 64-bit client too.

  - We need to roll back some changes we're seeing in there, and it seems that may take some decent effort (for both client and server), but the point is that I was able to log in with a client built from source :)

  - The original estimate for an actual client build was roughly 4-6 months after we acquired Hawken, so we're still a good 2-3 months out.. just to set some expectations...  And, yes, it's ok to vent frustration that it's not faster/sooner/better/bigger/badder/full-of-win ;)

5. Boost Items are now at a full 100% boost (up from 50% boost)

  - a long time ago they were decreased to 50%... anyone have some juicy stories surrounding why?

 

 

What's happening this next week:

1. Get the mice all shipped

2. Start moving build servers to a permanent location

  - no, I do not like the idea of having servers sitting on desks

3. Matchmaker tweaks

4. A new mech package

5. Let's get some more items released - what do you think of that?


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#2
Nept

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Nerd.


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#3
ThirdEyE

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Seriously though, thanks for listening and adjusting accordingly.  You're awesome!

 

Edit:  I realize you didn't mention anything about oversized servers in matchmaking... Any thoughts on that?


Edited by ThirdEyE, 08 May 2015 - 05:14 PM.

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#4
Maxunarul

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What's happening this next week:

 

4. A new mech package

 

 

:woot:   I approved 

 

f17ff7c5ef2b35e22d4df1d255bdf97bacd5fce6


Edited by Maxunarul, 08 May 2015 - 05:05 PM.

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#5
GeneralJWJ

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Matchmaker and Server Browser changes are a hot topic.  Oh yes indeed :)

 


What's happening this next week:

1. Get the mice all shipped

2. Start moving build servers to a permanent location

  - no, I do not like the idea of having servers sitting on desks

3. Matchmaker tweaks

4. A new mech package

5. Let's get some more items released - what do you think of that?

 

I'll admit this is what I'm most curious about right now. I'm gonna have money for Hawken related things soon so this is right up my alley :D


Go read and edit the hawken wiki you fuzzy bunnies.


#6
bacon_avenger

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64-bit client build?

 

Where do I sign up to test one of those?


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Test dummy for science, Follower of Wheatons Law, usually hanging around #hawkenscrim and #spawn, occasional poster of YouTube videos and streaming.  Can also be found on twitter

 

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#7
LaurenEmily

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4. A new mech package

5. Let's get some more items released - what do you think of that?

 

Ooh interesting


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#8
Shadeness

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Could we get a Bunker Siege server put up? Either a 24/7 one, or have it added to the rotation?

Edit:
And a server that rotates all gamemodes/map combinations? People tend to leave a server to get the daily in another gamemode, so having one that cycled gamemodes every map would be nice.

Edited by Shadeness, 08 May 2015 - 06:21 PM.

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#9
JackVandal

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"4. A new mech package

5. Let's get some more items released - what do you think of that?"

 

 

*Froths at the mouth*


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#10
Draigun

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[...]

 

5. Boost Items are now at a full 100% boost (up from 50% boost)

  - a long time ago they were decreased to 50%... anyone have some juicy stories surrounding why?

 

[...]

 

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here; if I recall, Adhesive reduced the amplification factor of boosts in alignment with the ongoing economy restructure procedures. They felt that the amount given with the boosts was too much of an imbalance to the economy, and weakened it. More specifically, they lowered the price of items, internals, and mechs at one point; in response, either during the same patch or the one following it, they nerfed the boosts.

 

In any case, I appreciate the work you and your team has done over the past few months with Hawken, capnjosh. Looking forward to the changes both current and future. o7


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#11
Nightfirebolt

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What kind of items would be released? More cosmetics and stuff?

 

1zocenn.jpg


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#12
LiveBacteria

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Once again thanks for the updates and Data ^^. I cannot wait for you guys to get to those old map bugs :3, then I might actually be a,b,le to compete on Prosk with my fps dropping to 20-.
Also, what do you make of server mods.. Im not really a fan when they break the game lol

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#13
PsychedelicGrass

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I love you<3

 

 

What are you referring to when you say "new items released", though? Camos and parts?


What's the big fuzzy bunnyng deal? Lots of amazing people have committed suicide, and they turned out alright.

 


#14
gArphEus

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More items? - NEW items??? - Well, if u want some suggestions: what about a single fire & forget missile, that just deactivates the boosters and air compressor 4 a while. An item 2 help defeating these pesky flying scouts. Can any1 remember the last time having seen a scout WALKING??? Would b a nice help 4 those playing Grenadiers, G2 Raiders, Predators and other absolute helpless mechs. Just my 2 HCs.

Regards, Garpheus.

#15
SandSpider2

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Thank you, thank you, thank you!

 

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Edited by SandSpider2, 09 May 2015 - 04:25 AM.

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#16
Neraste

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Interesting data! But I had a hard time reading your graphs. They're not trivial to understand. Also, what does the "# nulls" on bottom right mean?

 

I highly suggest you to run tests on a longer time span: 2 days is too short and I think you should expand to one week or two. I say this because I can see higher variations on your graph before matchmaker tweaking, which occurred the 6th of May. Also, since that time, data you've gathered represent only 3 points on the plots, and I can't trust anything based on so few points.

 

 


4. We built our first functioning Hawken client.  To make it more of a challenge, we built a 64-bit client too.

  - We need to roll back some changes we're seeing in there, and it seems that may take some decent effort (for both client and server), but the point is that I was able to log in with a client built from source :)

  - The original estimate for an actual client build was roughly 4-6 months after we acquired Hawken, so we're still a good 2-3 months out.. just to set some expectations...  And, yes, it's ok to vent frustration that it's not faster/sooner/better/bigger/badder/full-of-win ;)

 

Hooray!

 


2. Start moving build servers to a permanent location

  - no, I do not like the idea of having servers sitting on desks

 

Good for them!

 

4. A new mech package

5. Let's get some more items released - what do you think of that?

 

Dat smells gut!


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#17
Loglino

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2-3 months? Work weekends and make that under 2!

Mind the fact that pizza is my avatar.
Pizza is cool and you know it.

 <3 HAWKEN

 

 

 


#18
Tankman95

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#19
Meraple

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Amazing stuff.

 

Although I have to ask, when will the purchasable MC codes be on the Steam Store?

I'm sorry if I sound impatient, I totally am but not being able to buy MC is painful when there's new content incoming.



#20
Odinous

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New mech package?New items?OH BOY OH BOY!!!!please...just TAKE MY MONEY  :teehee:


Edited by Odinous, 10 May 2015 - 04:13 AM.


#21
PepeKenobi

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...

 

5. Let's get some more items released - what do you think of that?

 

If what you are referring to are brand new items then cool. If you're pointing to revised existing items then cool as well. And if what you mean is a combination of both possibilities then I'd be cool with that too.

 

BTW, have a look at these posts my uncle and me made on actual items as possible ways to improve them in the game.

 

This is about scanners and turrets:

 

https://community.pl...ge-2#entry29547

 

https://community.pl...ts-in-the-game/

 

Edit:

 

Visual addendum:

 


Edited by PepeKenobi, 11 May 2015 - 01:08 PM.


#22
1uster

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I am aware of the advantages of 64bit for production based applications but what is the possible good thing for a game? First impression from a non-programmer view is like it's a waste of time since until now Hawken wasn't crashing because of too much RAM needs - or? Would love to hear some insight.



#23
Pelanthoris

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It seems this big old rock is starting to roll. Slowly but steadily. I don't wantyou to rush things, take your time to deliver the awesome. As long as it's awesome in the end :D

"The vectors... The vectors are all wrong!" -Bum


#24
Nov8tr

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Today has been a joke. Only problem is it is not funny. The hitscan is all over the place. Shoot 10 missiles and 1 does damage. Pings bouncing around like some kids rubber ball. And they are up 40 to 50 than they were a week ago. And some servers up 200, 300, or more. 1400-1500 MMR matches with people who are 2000 -2500. What??? How is this even remotely fair. I've been on the winning and losing side. And lot of the time even if we are winning, in comes someone who get 900 points above the other players. This is insane. This is not really fun. I don't find fun in stomping people. Some might, but I am not one of them. It is not fair to them in any sense of the word. And on the losing side. Well 42 to 2 is a real BS score. Not cause the losing team was bad, but because the winning team came in as a "TEAM" of 3 to 5 players and were players easily over 2000 MMR. I know I've played them plenty of times. I've played them in War Wed. And many times in the past. I hope to god you are not going to leave the MMR range this way. How fair is that to the people who have now had their MMR destroyed by getting stomped by high MMR people. And your 500 limit is not working. We have had players in alts who admitted to being 2500+ players. Would not tell who they were though. Look at their specs and they have insane K/D ratios. And more. And have played 30 minutes.

 

I really appreciate all the hard work you're doing. Really, I do. I understand the wadded up bowl of spaghetti you inherited. I don't envy you. But this is just not working at all. I have heard nothing but complaints all day. Rage quitting people. It has not been pretty, believe me. I don't mind losing to a superior player. OF MY SKILL LEVEL. Losing to someone who is 1000 MMR above me is NOT fun. Sorry but it's true. I love the game. It is one of my favorite games of all time and I've played a LOT of games. But I don't know what to do. I am trying to chill but man, not easy. It's the equivalent of putting a Navy Seal squad with tactical weapons against a room of 5 yr old kids with dull sticks. OK now you go over there and kill those Seals with your sticks! Uh huh, oh yeah that's gonna happen. NOT.

 

I know you are just trying to make things better. I wish I had some magic answers for you. I don't. I just know I'm really tired of this. I want to play this. Sigh. There are plenty of good suggestions here for you. There are other people who have ideas. I like how you are open with us, ask our opinion. Well you just read mine for what it is worth. I am not demanding anything. I'm not trying to tell you what to do. I'm just giving you my honest opinion. I hope you listen. Thanks.

 

/rant over :P

 

This is what it feels like getting stomped:

 

giphy.gif


Edited by Nov8tr, 11 May 2015 - 01:14 PM.

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"Nov8tr" is pronounced "INNOVATOR"

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#25
Nept

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That is a fat cat.


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#26
capnjosh

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I keep wishing I could come across a "make_all_games_fair" ini setting on the gameserver ;)

 

One positive thing, is that extending the matchmaking expansion time seems to have reduced the MMR range of matches.  I want to leave things as-is for another number of days - I want to see where the numbers stabilize.

 

An addition to the matchmaking system would be features that effectively adjust MMR during matches.  In addition to that, there would have to be some mechanics in place that result in somehow making interactions between pilots with very different MMRs be reduced.  Think along the lines of how a golf handicap would translate over to Hawken (yes, there are some terrible ways that could go down; I don't want to realize those ways).  Still some time out though.


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#27
eth0

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An addition to the matchmaking system would be features that effectively adjust MMR during matches.  In addition to that, there would have to be some mechanics in place that result in somehow making interactions between pilots with very different MMRs be reduced.  Think along the lines of how a golf handicap would translate over to Hawken (yes, there are some terrible ways that could go down; I don't want to realize those ways).  Still some time out though.

Armor adjustment? For example, -50 health every +300 MMR? Not sure how this would pan out in extreme cases but I wouldn't mind trying it if I was stomping on a server.

 

Higher heat generation, decreased fuel tanks, increased dodge cooldown (A->B, B->C C->C+) are interesting but seem like they would take a lot of tweaking. One thing is for sure, they'd all make great mutators.


Pubstomping is a whole different strategic discussion, however, and usually just becomes an exploration of the ethics of dumpstering randos.

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#28
Sorroritas

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3. Matchmaker tweaks

4. A new mech package

5. Let's get some more items released - what do you think of that?

Me like!

Me happy!

Me thanky graph drawing man!


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Treat them with honour, my Brothers.

Not because they will bring us victory this day,

but because their fate will one day be ours.





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