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Jobs and Ord Changes - Feedback Thread

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#41
Nept

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BlastDuration 3 seconds (down from 5)
Regeneration Time 35 seconds (up from 5)

 

Database error or no, that's fuzzy bunnyng ridiculous.

 

 

 
The lack of dodging on console is already a problem; I have met 1 player ever who could chain dodge (and hestoned but he doesn't count).

 

Those scary good playtesters tho


Edited by Nept, 13 February 2017 - 11:22 PM.

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#42
Nept

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THIS POST WAS A MISTAKE (LIKE THE JOBS)


Edited by Nept, 13 February 2017 - 11:24 PM.

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#43
nepacaka

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i bievive dey can fix it...


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#44
dorobo

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That gluedON Cup in the video is hurting my eyes.. It screams: I just visited a souvenir shop out here in this dystopian world!!

 

domonkos-1.gif


Edited by dorobo, 14 February 2017 - 02:03 AM.

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#45
crockrocket

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How is this relevant to the PC edition? Still waiting on that update...

 

PC will receive some form of this update in the future. It's completely relevant.

 

Would you rather go back to hearing nothing about console? Because personally I say fuzz that....


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#46
Amidatelion

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Not to be cynical, but it's had Soon© taped to the front of the box for a while now.


I won't tear into you like I did the last one to ask this because you've been pretty cool, but them being open and transparent about what was happening on console is relatively new and something we had to fight for. Whole swathes of the development cycle were purposefully hidden from us and if you think you're frustrated with "Soon" now, imagine what we felt like with NO info, left alone and ignored over here with nary a peep.

Previously, all information regarding console development was segregated to the console forums and anyone sharing any was warned or banned.

We literally asked for this. Many Bothans, etc.

#47
DallasCreeper

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Not to be cynical, but it's had SoonTM taped to the front of the box for a while now.

ftfy


 

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#48
ARCH3TYP3

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I remember when going into turret mode on a Vanguard would change your hitpoint count to 1000....and there were players who were waiting for patches since way before I got here...And some are still here!
So, yeah, the community patience and anticipation is in full effect.

"Finally, the white knight I deserve. [ARCHETYPE]" -  Amidatelion


#49
Ornual

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 I am 75% sure that he Immobilised me after I killed him.
 

 

 

 Yeah it does that. Unsure if it's intentional or not but you will be hit by the ability every time you're in range, even if you kill it.

 

 

i bievive dey can fix it...

 

 

I am going to take a guess here and say that since people have purchased it already, they will not take such crazy actions as to completely change how the mech ability works, just tweak how well it does or does not work.

 

I stick by my earlier statement in saying it really is not all that bad in it's current state. You basically play it like a Raider (Without the whole speeding about), then perhaps 1-5 times per match you might actually be in a position where you can hit someone with the ability to actually do all that much good for you. It is for sure a team based mech, either used on a corner, through a small wall/short ceiling, or  when they're facing the other way fighting a team mate are about the only times to properly use the ability due to the short down time.

 

Not really a suicide mech, simply an opportunist. As long as they release it on PC in about the same state it is now, it really won't be all that annoying to fight against, it is actually quite fun!


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#50
crockrocket

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 Yeah it does that. Unsure if it's intentional or not but you will be hit by the ability every time you're in range, even if you kill it.

 

 

 

I am going to take a guess here and say that since people have purchased it already, they will not take such crazy actions as to completely change how the mech ability works, just tweak how well it does or does not work.

 

I stick by my earlier statement in saying it really is not all that bad in it's current state. You basically play it like a Raider (Without the whole speeding about), then perhaps 1-5 times per match you might actually be in a position where you can hit someone with the ability to actually do all that much good for you. It is for sure a team based mech, either used on a corner, through a small wall/short ceiling, or  when they're facing the other way fighting a team mate are about the only times to properly use the ability due to the short down time.

 

Not really a suicide mech, simply an opportunist. As long as they release it on PC in about the same state it is now, it really won't be all that annoying to fight against, it is actually quite fun!

 

But as far as I can tell it will be completely OP in team based gameplay. It will make siege more hell than it already is and it will be banned without question from any competitive tournament, league, or even scrim. No matter how you try to balance it this mech is conceptually broken.


Edited by crockrocket, 14 February 2017 - 05:26 AM.

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#51
Ornual

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But as far as I can tell it will be completely OP in team based gameplay. It will make siege more hell than it already is and it will be banned without question from any competitive tournament, league, or even scrim. No matter how you try to balance it this mech is conceptually broken.

 

I don't think people are getting a good idea of just how much the range was nerfed. I don't know exactly how they changed the area of effect, but occasionally when someone who is pretty much right in front of you jumps off into the air they don't get effected, other times the effect range is rather impressive feeling still.

 

I assume it is sphere oriented in nature, though sometimes random things like that happen that make me question the effect angles. Their Q/A guy we play with on a regular basis on Xbox (awesome dude btw) made a remark thinking that it felt too nerfed when he played it, though the other 3 of us in the lobby who had them to use right after the nerf did not feel that way. Time will tell here in a week or so when they fully release it, then we will see how the balance works in larger numbers of them playing.


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#52
wischatesjesus

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Comp wise I see this mech walking a fine line between a must-pick/ban and a complete joke. On one hand static mechs are pretty much free, but the way I understand it Jobs has to spend 3 seconds standing still and beeping before anything happens. That is ample time to kill Jobs several times over, though from reading the thread that doesn't seem like enough to actually stop the ability.

 

Barring strats on Origin that involve activating the ability while dropping/jumping to a point, I don't see any reason to pick Jobs over Raider right now.


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#53
Amidatelion

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...that doesn't seem like enough to actually stop the ability.

 

This is the issue.  

 

Cancel the charge on death and it's fine. Otherwise its just another poor gameplay decision(encouraging suicide charges) on top of everything else.



#54
dorobo

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It's just no good. Bad/lazy design.

Anyways..

another idea. Make  mechs affected by it just walk/boost in the direction they are facing until effect wears down. Or make em start shooting  until they overheat but they can still aim/walk it's just this uncontrollable shooting  :thumbsup:

 

Those lagging mechs walking into walls would look dope  :ninja: and you're like hey what where am i going stop get back!


Edited by dorobo, 14 February 2017 - 07:32 AM.

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#55
nepacaka

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 Yeah it does that. Unsure if it's intentional or not but you will be hit by the ability every time you're in range, even if you kill it.

this should be fixed anyway. another reason thinking about Jobs like a "suicidal-retardo" mech.
press F, die, see how they being stunned, lel. 

just another example, if delete "after death stun", and "through wall stun" features, which is obviusly look like a bug for me (even if this not a bug, it is just sux), EMP-blast will be completely bad without it.
you literally will die any time when you trying to use it, because you should see the enemy. if enemy also see you, he kill you because you got charge/self-stun.


i can agree with current mechanic if... let say:
1) charging -> 1 or 1.5 second (which allow you jump+shift and press F, and got stun while you landing),
2) no self-stun after EMP-blast
3) highly decrease stun time to 2 second
4) but EMP-blast shouldn't working through wall or floor, and shouldn't blast if you die before you can cast it.

this mean, you can do stun for someone, and don't die like a sicide mech.
it is also mean, you spent 1-2 sec to charging, but when you release EMP-blast, now you got advantage, but enemy have a disadvantage and can't move. enemy still can kill you, but also can kill him due don't have stupid self stun.

as a variant, it also can be:
- 1 second charging (no move, no turn)
- no self stun after blast
- enemy also got 1 sec. stun
- 15-20 sec. ability cooldown
to use it like a micro-stun while stun. you not have a high effect, but can do it often and sometimes make it unexpected.


anyway, i still prefer mechanics with "10% slowdown", "EMP items disabling" or "EMP disarm" (like standart EMP), which i suggest before, instead stun mechanics.
 


Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

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#56
crockrocket

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Comp wise I see this mech walking a fine line between a must-pick/ban and a complete joke. 

 

I guess that's partly what I mean by conceptually broken. You can't balance a mech if the core idea is bad.


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#57
CZeroFive

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We've changed the Mech in our development builds to not have the EMP blast go off if the Mech initiating the blast is dead. Unfortunately, there's no way to hotfix that functionality so expect to see it in an upcoming update.


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#58
wischatesjesus

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#59
DeeRax

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nm, this is a useless post.


Edited by DeeRax, 16 February 2017 - 02:43 PM.

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#60
Amidatelion

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We've changed the Mech in our development builds to not have the EMP blast go off if the Mech initiating the blast is dead. Unfortunately, there's no way to hotfix that functionality so expect to see it in an upcoming update.

 

This is, incidentally, what killed Battleborn.

 

Please, *please* do not 

 

  1. Try for platform parity
  2. Release mechs without doing QA on PC first, once you've unfrozen that code.

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#61
CZeroFive

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This is, incidentally, what killed Battleborn.

 

Please, *please* do not 

 

  1. Try for platform parity
  2. Release mechs without doing QA on PC first, once you've unfrozen that code.

 

 

It will be easier to push out hotfix patches for PC than it will be for consoles.


Edited by CZeroFive, 16 February 2017 - 03:50 PM.

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#62
DallasCreeper

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It will be easier to push out hotfix patches for PC than it will be for consoles.

Let me guess... Sony & Microsoft?


 

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#63
Amidatelion

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Let me guess... Sony & Microsoft?

 

Basically. They require updates to be submitted for some depraved, arcane inquisition before release to the general public.  

 

Not that said inquisition ever catches anything of any note...



#64
wischatesjesus

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Basically. They require updates to be submitted for some depraved, arcane inquisition before release to the general public.  

 

Not that said inquisition ever catches anything of any note...

 

I think the inquisition is more there to make sure the update doesn't commandeer webcams, brick consoles, or summon demons. They don't care about the game itself.

 

 

It will be easier to push out hotfix patches for PC than it will be for consoles.

 

Being able to fix something quickly is not a replacement for QC. I understand you guys are a really small team, but the content release scheduling really should reflect that.

 

With that said, progress is being made.


Edited by wischatesjesus, 17 February 2017 - 09:08 AM.

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#65
Morquedeas

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Alright time to weigh in I suppose.

 

Not gonna say much about the Ord, I'd really have to play it to form any opinion.  One thing I can say though is that unless it's been changed on the console version, the PN-222 or whatever is one of the worst weapons in the game, both on paper, and especially in game.  I'd imagine most people would favor the dual pistols being synchronized anyways though.

 

For the Jobs, I'm pretty much in the same boat as everyone else.  I think the possiblity of stuns/roots/slows in Hawken is one of the things that has been discussed ad nauseum, and unanimously considered a bad idea in a game where movement is king.  Jobs introduces the worst of all CC's, the stun.  Even if the duration, cd, radius, whatever, are balanced, I don't see this ability being "good" for gameplay.  Any amount of stun is going to neuter A class mechs, and will generally be unfun.  Taking control away from the player is one of those things you really have to be damn careful about in video games.

 

I also feel like I have to mention again that I have a support ticket that has been open for 3 months now.  Maybe I should just make it my signature or something....


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#66
nepacaka

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Not gonna say much about the Ord, I'd really have to play it to form any opinion.  One thing I can say though is that unless it's been changed on the console version, the PN-222 or whatever is one of the worst weapons in the game, both on paper, and especially in game.  I'd imagine most people would favor the dual pistols being synchronized anyways though.

maybe will be a good move to buff Ord pistols like +5 damage for PS4/Xbox.
ut, we should see how it will be playing on PC before, due the difference beetwen mouse and gamepad. Obviously, player on PC can be more accuracy, and Ord in their hand can be stronger.
just for clarify, i have 50% accuracy with Slug, it is mean every 2 shot lying in your face. i'm strongly doubt than average console player can do something like this.

what i'm trying to say.
easy solution for Ord on consoles - slightly buff pistols +5 dmg.
see how it will be on PC (in future).

PN223 should got some buff anyway. i like this weapon style (i mean tech+PN), but hawkins-RPR or Redox just better anyway, and 223 just not worth to put it on mech.

maybe a good way will be directly buff damage, and increase spread, to make it like small shotgun for tech. like high dmg close-range weapon.
 


Edited by nepacaka, 17 February 2017 - 11:50 PM.

Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#67
Arkhaun

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maybe if the jobs shoots the emp in a frontal cone with a diminishing duration of effect depending on distance?

 

Like some kind of unibeam or skyrim shout.

 

 

with a 1.5 sec casting time down from 3 and a 35-40 sec cd


Edited by Arkhaun, 18 February 2017 - 08:31 AM.

SORRY CAPS

 

 

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#68
Morquedeas

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PN223 should got some buff anyway. i like this weapon style (i mean tech+PN), but hawkins-RPR or Redox just better anyway, and 223 just not worth to put it on mech.

maybe a good way will be directly buff damage, and increase spread, to make it like small shotgun for tech. like high dmg close-range weapon.
 

 

Yeah so I just looked at the stat sheet, PN223 has abysmal dps, but crazy high dps/heat ratio, although I'm not sure that would behoove the Ord at all.  The other thing I remember is that the PN223 is the only gun that still has accuracy "bloom" like in the old days of Hawken when continual shooting increased the spread.  It being the old burst fire weapon makes it unique, but it is among, if not the, worst primary in Hawken (PC).



#69
nepacaka

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devs told before, that they can't making changable secondary in hagar, but will be pretty fun to allow Ord equip 2 pistols, or 2 PN223 instead, like when you changing weapon in left arm, weapon in your right arm also changing automatically to PN223.

it is also will be good for console G2-sasalt, because he look ridiculous with AR+VulcanXT and SMC+VulcanXT. pretty ugly.
 

the PN223 is the only gun that still has accuracy "bloom" like in the old days of Hawken when continual shooting increased the spread. 

hmm... i think AMSAR has this feature, not 223. but even with this AMSAR is pretty accuracy weapon.
223 spread look randomly for me.

 


Edited by nepacaka, 18 February 2017 - 02:36 PM.

Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#70
Morquedeas

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devs told before, that they can't making changable secondary in hagar, but will be pretty fun to allow Ord equip 2 pistols, or 2 PN223 instead, like when you changing weapon in left arm, weapon in your right arm also changing automatically to PN223.

it is also will be good for console G2-sasalt, because he look ridiculous with AR+VulcanXT and SMC+VulcanXT. pretty ugly.
 

hmm... i think AMSAR has this feature, not 223. but even with this AMSAR is pretty accuracy weapon.
223 spread look randomly for me.

 

 

Okay I was bored so I totally just tested them, AMSAR has no spread bloom, although its static spread is probably a bit more than you'd expect, probably only 10-15% less spread than the Hawkins.

 

The PN223 definitely has spread bloom, it starts quite accurate and before overheating becomes absolutely atrocious, like the spread is worse than that of the Flak.  Although you have to be shooting basically non-stop for this to happen.  I don't it'll be much of an issue, but it's still something that should get fixed at some point.


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