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On an hypothetical Realistic game mode in HAWKEN

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#1
The_Silencer

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Just for fun, let's talk about this possiblity for the game.

 

I'll mention some few points about this hypothetical "much more" Realistic mode in HWK. You may apport yours and/or comment on any other point posted already.

 

For example,

 

And considering fun over realism, as much as possible further on

 

1.- Minimalistic HUD

 

2.- Integrated Cockpit

 

3.- Friendly fire

 

4.- Realistic detonation when a mech dies (distinct AoE and Damage per Mech Class) .OR. causing heat within the explosion AoE.

 

(new)5.- Accordingly increasing TTK

 

(new)6.- Adapting Radar and its related stuff*

 

(new)7.- Limited internals

 

(new)8.- Bringing the Tactical Minimap back

 

...

 

 

Note: This OP may be updated and enlarged by including your apported material/ideas. Credit will be given (as much as possible). Points not added probably require some more of discussion.. I'll do my best ;)

 

First Quick Update - 03/05/2016


Edited by The_Silencer, 05 March 2016 - 03:00 PM.

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The difference between theory and practice is smaller in theory than it is in practice.


#2
KOS_Baconman

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hyper realistic in my mind doesnt correspond with a set amount of health for a mech


  

What if we just give some bacon paint, some bacon holo-emotes and change Bunker from snow to bacon.

 

This way, everyone will be happy.

What you should really do, is replace your parts with bacon, so you can cook games and eat bacon

Obviously the wallpaper would be cooler if bacon was incorporated into it.

 


#3
asipo

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we need bigger player base

create new mode TDM-Competitive (friendly fire: ON) 


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#4
CraftyDus

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friendly fire, no radar,  low health pools, and increased damages all would make hawken great again


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#5
ATX22

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On 4.  - You could also have the mech lock up / sudden shutdown or explode depending on what ultimately disables it.  For example, destruction by rockets, missiles, etc. result in the mech exploding where smg fire causes it to just stop once health reaches 0.  If location damage ever gets added, that could also determine what happens.   As for the explosion doing dmg, that'd be cool.

 

For a more "realistic" mode, I'd also like to see the functionality of internals (health) separated say from armor on the mech.  Have the repair drone only repair the internals (health) of the mech, not the armor.  So, you can keep a mech going, but with no armor you really take a lot of dmg to the internals (health ) when hit.  Could even go so far as to have a consumable or item for purchase that consumes armor in order to repair internal components faster.  Have armor repaired only at base and maybe by being healed by a tech (give that mech a reason to exist).


Edited by ATX22, 02 March 2016 - 02:48 PM.

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#6
thirtysix

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Problem with health regen at base is opposing team will camp the base, happens now in siege. Friendly fire should have been on from the beginning. IMHO we need the mini-map back, ability to set way points via team capt (person with most points), and BETTER radar, by which I mean abilty to zoom in/out to fine tune it, more accurate the more it's zoomed in, less on out. Conversely the scrambler should become more powerful the closer you get. Remove enhanced radar item. After thought, give team capt ability to set respawn point(s).


Edited by thirtysix, 02 March 2016 - 09:33 PM.

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#7
dorobo

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i'd say increase ttk with friendly fire on


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#8
-Tj-

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- Dodging or boosting rapidly continuously without pausing causes the pilot to experience a blackout from G-forces. The effect starts by fading from color to black and white, then starts getting blurry before ultimately just going black for several moments. During this time, the player's mech can received damage and may continue doing what it was doing just before the pilot blacked out, like walking in one direction, or firing continuously, so it's entirely possible for a pilot to come back from a blackout to find their guns have overheated and they're surrounded by enemies.

 

- Dodging or boosting in a direction that isn't in the same or similar direction as the current dodge or boost can cause the mech to fall over from ill balance. Depending on the class and shape of the mech, falling over may just cause a slight mis-balance, and the mech can regain footing, though others may fall over permanently, unless there's something for the mech to hook on to. It's also possible for other mechs to kick the mech back up to assist. Some may even roll over (depending on the speed and other physics), and turret modes may be able to help with flipping back over to feet on the ground. During this time, the mech's soft underbelly may be exposed.

 

- "Pilots need to potty, too." During long games, the player's pilot avatar thing may need to bathroom badly. During such moments, the mech's controls will feel erratic as the pilot shakes to keep from soiling their pants and cockpit, and the screen may angle slightly on one side or the other. If the Cup Noodle cup is purchased and used in the cockpit, the potty break will come more often.

 

- Cockpit decorations fall off during heavy damage. Once loose, they flop around the cockpit even if the mech is repaired. While flopping around, they can hit the pilot's head and make "thonk" sounds. If they poke the camera, the screen gets blurry for a little bit. If Cup Noodle cup spills, it causes 2nd degree burns to the pilot, causing the pilot's hands and/or legs to jerk in pain, in turn making the mech move in unexpected ways for brief moments. That perfectly lined-up sniper shot you were working on? Yeah, not happening now.

 

- If no cockpit decorations are used, the pilot gets sad from time to time, at random. Unable to afford the luxuries of Illal, only able to earn the Illalian war equivalent of food stamps: HC. While in sad mode, a big ":(" in bold yellow Arial text shows up in the middle of the screen for a few moments, joined by the sounds of dog whimpers, like those made by dogs who want to desperately go out for a walk. This effect is purely cosmetic, because otherwise players would cry that it's pay to win.


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#9
Sp3ctrr

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Change up radar a a bit, as opposed to it being constantly active, you would need to press a key to warm it up, then press it again to release a radar ping which would give you a still image of enemy positions. Nowhere near as useful as radar is currently, but it would make it a lot more realistic.


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#10
MomOw

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Realistic ? really ? 2 legged tanks with external jet engines ? what would be the gravity to have such things work fine ...

 

So realistic would mean : limited ammo, slow paced, localised damages and almost insta-gibs, hard landings, thermal detection instead of "radar" (but could work almost the same), no orbs, all internals should be reworked.

(I'd lol a WYSIWYG on hawken : TOW limited to single use ?)

 

IMHO sabot and hellfire would be kings unless nerfed down to hell.

 

Edit : and rocket turret could be the new meta.

 

friendly fire, no radar,  low health pools, and increased damages all would make COD great again

 

Edited by (KDR) MomOw, 03 March 2016 - 01:44 AM.

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#11
LaurenEmily

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- "Pilots need to potty, too." During long games, the player's pilot avatar thing may need to bathroom badly. During such moments, the mech's controls will feel erratic as the pilot shakes to keep from soiling their pants and cockpit, and the screen may angle slightly on one side or the other. If the Cup Noodle cup is purchased and used in the cockpit, the potty break will come more often.

 

Call me childish but lmao

(Also this is the reason we have such long wait times in between matches i think)


Edited by (KDR) LaurenEmily, 03 March 2016 - 05:25 AM.

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#12
The_Silencer

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Realistic ? really ? 2 legged tanks with external jet engines ? what would be the gravity to have such things work fine ...

 

So realistic would mean : limited ammo, slow paced, localised damages and almost insta-gibs, hard landings, thermal detection instead of "radar" (but could work almost the same), no orbs, all internals should be reworked.

(I'd lol a WYSIWYG on hawken : TOW limited to single use ?)

 

IMHO sabot and hellfire would be kings unless nerfed down to hell.

 

Edit : and rocket turret could be the new meta.

Ok, yes; really

 

However and above all, fun over realism. That is the most important before any realism overdose or special new mode. That equilibrium is what might make such a possibility viable in HAWKEN.

 

No need to feel deceived anyhow. This is just an experiment. Although I'll admit that, taking for example on of the forementioned points.. friendly fire if you wish. Yes? That could have such an impact into gameplay that many would go in Wow! mode.. so to speak. Imagine a -obviously an exquisite and accurate- suit of realism touches.. not so terrible idea, IMHO. That's what this is about, we all are on it ;)


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The difference between theory and practice is smaller in theory than it is in practice.


#13
lo_spaghetto

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Game-like --> realism

COD --> fighters in Syria blind firing AKs like a mofo

Hawken --> lemme just stay behind this wall for now


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#14
The_Silencer

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Thank you for your input -I've been reading everything you guys have posted in here and up until now. I'd like to comment on some pros and/or cons

 

First of all, i should'nt have said "hyper-realistic" in the OP. Actually I'd reather prefer saying "pretty more realistic" or "realistic v.2" or something better and more accurate; but I positively think that we get the idea much better now

 

Cons first, how not: ;)

 

.- Limited ammo would be too much in HAWKEN; not something pretty fun, at first glance

 

.- The same with Locational Damage; I'm afraid:

From the top of my mind the first con would be maneuverability. Restricting or limiting maneuverability would not be much appealing.. at least at fist glance once more.  Allow me, please, the licencense to tell ya on that limiting visibility and/or maneuverability uses to have one negative impact in gameplay -at least from a freedom stand point of it- and HWK is a game in which you may enjoy very much of that. Although the Disruptor item "vulnerates" the first, I personally can live with it due to its short duration

 

.- Taking damage from the map's geometry due to collisions with it -intended or not-  would have one pretty relevant impact in the current gameplay. However, I'd like to see how much and how in some hypothetical build... something I'd like to see in more realistic bouncing effect which could counter that undesired "getting stuck on a wall" effect we have now.. maybe if you crash frontally in a wall at full throttle might dserver some damage.. not a priority anyway.

(Hard landings are already implemented although there's an internal to not absorb any damage due to those)

 

.- Thermal detection: Yes and no.. at fair "very" short range scanners should reveal cloacked stuff, imho. All stuff that is not boosting should not render on radar? (If I understood you well up there)

 

.-  Base points to dispense heal and ammunition: Well, my initial idea was mostly TDM.. as for now

 

--

 

Pros now:

 

.- Post-mech-death / residual / item Orbs: One possiblity might be replacing these with fuel cells.. something like a la terminator way. Subsequently, another possiblity might be making these to explode if damaged... but again, something like this might have such an impact in the game that.. well, you get the idea although sounds interesting at certain degree, at least to me =)

 

.- Increasing TTK with Friendly Fire on sounds very good ;)

 

.- On several new G effects: Visually appealing if well implemented but many competitive pilots won't check on the option in settings..

 

.- Radar:  more realistic might worth some testing. That could help at solving some actual inconsistences in the game too. - Radar improvements and better interaction-mechanics in within items / mechs / Special Abilities would be really good stuff; indeed.

 

.- "Minimap back": Big yes to that! ;)

 

.- On Healing: Nanobots. Revised in all modes and probably limited in this hypothetical new one..

 

.- Limited internals: Sounds good at first glance

 

.- On mech deaths: Maybe, maybe, one possiblity could be to make those inflict heat and slightly damage too instead of big damage points with in the AoE (Area of Effect) of the s detonation

 

.- 360º degree geometry render on the radar would be much appretiated too. (As it was in the past)

 

.- On "Pilots need to potty, too": The Producer must be in "Hair on Fire" mode while reading this; I'm afraid. I'm confident about that this issue is gonna be solved soon in HAWKEN! ;P :D


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The difference between theory and practice is smaller in theory than it is in practice.


#15
MechFighter5e3bf9

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id love it if radar was more real so you have active and passive modes meaning you can leave it passive  to listen for activity and active means it sends out signals to locate enemies but reveals yourself too



#16
The_Silencer

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Updated the OP with the new material apported


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The difference between theory and practice is smaller in theory than it is in practice.


#17
ATX22

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Would this be something that you would want to have as a vote-able mode in any server or dedicated servers for a "realistic-game mode" in Hawken?  



#18
The_Silencer

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Would this be something that you would want to have as a vote-able mode in any server or dedicated servers for a "realistic-game mode" in Hawken?  

Let's say that a couple of dedicated servers per region could provide ground good enough for starters.

 

However -and to be honest about all this- implementing this new mod(e) in HAWKEN probably isn't a task so "easy" to do.

 

On the other hand.. who should have access to play this hypothetical mode?  Everyone? Or by Minimum MMR to join in? -The later might become in an interesting incentive too. Or perhaps only by purchasing the option to participate with game money? Et cetera..


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The difference between theory and practice is smaller in theory than it is in practice.


#19
ATX22

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Let's say that a couple of dedicated servers per region could provide ground good enough for starters.

 

However -and to be honest about all this- implementing this new mod(e) in HAWKEN probably isn't a task so "easy" to do.

 

On the other hand.. who should have access to play this hypothetical mode?  Everyone? Or by Minimum MMR to join in? -The later might become in an interesting incentive too. Or perhaps only by purchasing the option to participate with game money? Et cetera..

 

Dedicated servers?  Yeah, I could see that working.

 

Nope, it isnt... I'd assume that if something like this were to make it into Hawken, it'd be a long way off.

 

Eh, I'd say everyone, maybe have restriction where you have to play X number of hours before you can drop into a "realistic mode game".  Reloaded would need to be careful about putting too much behind a grind-wall.  And if someone over there got the notion to make it a credit sink.. the horror if it were to become a more popular game mode.



#20
talons1337

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Most importantly for realistic mode, permadeath. If you die then your account is permanently deleted.


When in doubt, attack your own team. You will still get points for it!

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#21
ATX22

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Most importantly for realistic mode, permadeath. If you die then your account is permanently deleted.

 

Sure, why not.



#22
The_Silencer

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Most importantly for realistic mode, permadeath. If you die then your account is permanently deleted.

That might be something pretty interesting to see, at least, during some few testing sessions. Although that more than probably would not be much appealing for the wide audience soemthing like that could be available for specialized and realistic++ tournaments, just to mention some possibility..

 

Nevertheless, I have no idea on what many A class pilots could say you about this matter ;P


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The difference between theory and practice is smaller in theory than it is in practice.


#23
maxajcd

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add this too, with battlefield sized maps


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#24
hoghead

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Most importantly for realistic mode, permadeath. If you die then your account is permanently deleted.

Might get rid of some smurfs. :ninja:



#25
The_Silencer

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add this too, with battlefield sized maps

battlefield sized maps have no sense in HWK, -I'm afraid; in case you weren't trolling


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The difference between theory and practice is smaller in theory than it is in practice.


#26
Pelanthoris

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  • Remove orbs as they are. Replace them with EU in all game modes. Healing uses EU. EU isn't a glowing sphere, but a barrel.
  • Momentum, mechs not only need time to accelerate, but also decelerate. If you want to stop quickly, you should "counter-boost". ( lol at 180)
  • Nerf radar (passive). Add on-demand active radar which is much better, but uses fuel or EU and lights you up on other players passive radar.
  • EOC pucks tear your legs off.
  • I loved the idea about separate health and armor. Add also pilot health to go all the way. (sniping isn't about disabling the mech you know. it's about disabling the pilot.)
  • You can't mix mech chassises

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#27
The_Silencer

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separating armor from health would be a coherent way to enlarge TTK. Once your armor is over then .. well, you know. a la Star Trek with shields and so forth. Not much needed though


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The difference between theory and practice is smaller in theory than it is in practice.


#28
Sam123456

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So many people love the old health number written inside the mech cockpit, and seem to think that was more realistic. I assume that's what you meant by #1 and/or #2? You want more realism? Make the HUD way LESS minimalistic. But there's nothing unrealistic about text floating in front of your eyes - helmet HUDs are fine.



#29
The_Silencer

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So many people love the old health number written inside the mech cockpit, and seem to think that was more realistic. I assume that's what you meant by #1 and/or #2? You want more realism? Make the HUD way LESS minimalistic. But there's nothing unrealistic about text floating in front of your eyes - helmet HUDs are fine.

Yep


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The difference between theory and practice is smaller in theory than it is in practice.


#30
ATX22

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The old integrated cockpits had more character to them.  I never cared that they took more effort to get the same amount of info (honestly, it was just as easy for me, but people say otherwise...) that is displayed in the current hud, but I suppose the whole learn to adjust / deal with it mentality is applied selectively even in the Hawken community.  There was the performance argument too, but eh, even when I was gaming on an old GTX 260 I never noticed any performance problems.  The HUD was also closer to what you'd expect to see in a fighter jet.. I don't care if a good deal of it was useless, it was still cool IMHO and again, added to the the whole scrap parts bolted together to make mechs thing Hawken had going.

 

Oh, and I'd like to see battleships that do more than go poof in the air and crap green energy turds down upon all the good little mechs scampering about  on the ground.. something along the lines of having it arc down and either crash intact or explode mid-air and have large sections rain down on the mechs below.  Have it burn away like regular mechs do, just more slowly.  If the EU balls are a must, have some of the bigger chunks of the ship dissolve and drop 'em, maybe just the engine section.


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#31
-Tj-

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The old integrated cockpits had more character to them.  I never cared that they took more effort to get the same amount of info (honestly, it was just as easy for me, but people say otherwise...) that is displayed in the current hud, but I suppose the whole learn to adjust / deal with it mentality is applied selectively even in the Hawken community.  There was the performance argument too, but eh, even when I was gaming on an old GTX 260 I never noticed any performance problems.

Same here, never had any problems reading them, nor had any performance issues on a 560Ti. I don't remember the devs ever giving us any kind of concrete evidence beyond "it was heavy," so I remain skeptical about that claim. I say bring back the old cockpit, even if I have to pay some real money for it.


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#32
The_Silencer

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Oh, and I'd like to see battleships that do more - something along the lines of having sections rain down on the mechs below

IMO, that "worths some testing". Although i find it to be risky at first glance, this could add suspense and intensity to gameplay. I'd suggest moderately big chunks of residual wreckage falling down.

 

That idea of yours, ATX22, might be a cool addition to the game ;)

 

--> One related idea could be adding a new "Collision" indicator/light/etc, in the cockpit and/or on the HUD. Basically some blinking 3D led and/or message.. This way, if you're in the middle of a fight thus can not pay much attention to the sky, you would have a chance to move away from falling BS's chunks. Also, could be useful right before getting crushed by an enemy mech.


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#33
The_Silencer

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One more thing about indicators and leds integrated in the cockpit for a better immersion and to improve reaction times:

 

3 days ago, that little red light rendered over the technician's secondary -while in deconstruction mode- brought to me some memories from the future.. ;)

 

One of the aspects I liked the most in the old integrated cockpit of the alpha game builds was the blinking red led right after a lock-on. IIRC, it was placed middle-top in your mech's cockpit. The visual feedback was 100% functional and effective -plus that SFX helper too.

-->

Ok, "the vision" while staring at that little red light of the Techie's 2nd_wpn had blinking red lights rendered on the inner side of both weapons while overheating. That way you may check your weapons with -more- ease; and both of the weapons. The actual VFX which makes the weapon to look as if incasdescent is as useful as cool. However, I'd also suggest to enlarge it in order to make it more evident and visible. Just as an annecdote, yesterday I found myself -while piloting my Infil2 and fully overheated- trying to kill a bounded C-mech by repeatedly jumping on it... that was quite a lol moment here. -I got killed, btw.. lol.

 

Right, also loved the old overheating bars for both weapons of the alpha cockpit. I honestly think that these worth to be brought back as well. Or otherwise, those "bars" could be used to display HEALTH. ;)


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