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#1
LEmental

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I think it's better to approach this game with broad strokes rather than the nitty gritty.  Identifying problems is the first step to making something better.  Here is a list of things that 'I' feel are rough spots in this game.  This in no way reflects the community at large, but I strongly feel that most people will agree with my points here.
 
*The new player experience is not good.  Players feel weak compared to others who have more in game currency.  The CRT looks weak.
 
* Maps are imbalanced. Maps with bases aren't symmetrical. Also spawning logic is not good. Opponents that you just killed can spawn behind you.
 
* Matchmaking is a nightmare.  Players are locked out of games because MMR is too low or too high.  We people que together is messes up team balance because it weights the queued partners higher than their individual skills combined.
 
* Stalemates in TDM. This is both a problem with maps and with things like technicians. In high level play. The optimal move is the hold specific choke points on the map. This is made even worse by the addition of technicians. This mech has the ability to keep the downtime of mechs to a minimum.  Add in orbs and extremely powerful radar and it's very difficult to gain an edge.  It's difficult to sneak up because every mech is framed by a colored box.
 
*Lack of downtime when injured. Repair orbs and technicians take away from the beautiful mechanic of repairing with 'c'. 'c' has a good trade off because the player is vulnerable while healing. When healing doesn't has this limitation. The games, pacing doesn't reward aggression.
 
*Hellfire missiles need work. They are really strong on Last Eco and Bunker and then utterly useless on other maps. They are rarely seen in high level play.
 
*Lack of balancing knobs due to overlapping weapons. (the slowest and fastest mechs both have a flack)

*Sustain damage is very strong right now.  (I don't know if that is because healing is also strong).
 
*TOW rockets are very strong.  It's hard to miss with them because they can detonate in the air.
 
*A class mechs dominate DM while C class mechs dominate team modes.
 
*EOC repeater is weak. Rarely is it used in high level play.
 
*Scanner is super strong and doesn't allow for interesting counterplay.  It makes it impossible to sneak up on the other team.
 

*Players shouldn't have to pay for crosshairs.

 

*Glitch: EOC P doesn’t do damage to shields.  It’s blast also goes through shields.
 
Please feel free to list things that you are having issues with in this game.  I don't want this thread to be about how to fix the problem.  I want this is be a practice in identifying rough spots.

 


Edited by LEmental, 23 March 2015 - 11:02 PM.

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#2
ticklemyiguana

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+1 and an unintentional bump because no more likes.


Edited by ticklemyiguana, 23 March 2015 - 08:48 PM.

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#3
Hijinks_The_Turtle

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+2 We need a thread that lists all the bugs and stuff.  It'll suck for the new devs to have to hunt all over for this one. :c Ran out of likes.....


Edited by Hijinks_The_Turtle, 23 March 2015 - 08:57 PM.


#4
USM999

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I have my Bruiser mech maxed out and the hellfire missiles are incredibly useless. I have no choice but to use it like a rocket shotgun more than anything in close range combat and rely on my primary weapon most of the time.

 

The Technician is also maxed out and the EOC Repeater is pretty much a BB gun more than anything.

 

I am sick and tired of these developers adding weapons to the wrong mechs and forcing you to have their crappy weapon setups.



#5
Hijinks_The_Turtle

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I have my Bruiser mech maxed out and the hellfire missiles are incredibly useless. I have no choice but to use it like a rocket shotgun more than anything in close range combat and rely on my primary weapon most of the time.

 

The Technician is also maxed out and the EOC Repeater is pretty much a BB gun more than anything.

 

I am sick and tired of these developers adding weapons to the wrong mechs and forcing you to have their crappy weapon setups.

Too many things changed.  Back then, the set up of the weapons were fine.



#6
LarryLaffer

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@LEmental: I wanted to write some detailed commentaries on every point you listed, but after I read your post carefully I changed my mind. You made a good point about new player experience and spawning logic. I don't agree with you about matchmaking; there is just not enough players to make matchmaker work properly.

 

But other points... I don't agree with them not because they're wrong or right, but because they all are particular cases of one main big... no, HUGE problem of HAWKEN. So here I state it. It's a lack of main concept of the game. I mean the game has no core. During my almost 500 playhours Adhesive Games completely changed the game balance like 2 times. They changed it from groundwork to air mobility, from medium TTK to high and then to low TTK. They made optimization tree, then tuning system and trashed them both. They added maps which was not compatible with weapons and movement system on that moment. Yes, I'm talking about Last Eco/Bunker and Hellfires/Snipers. These maps could be good even with old stats of HF/Sniper weapons, but with decreased air mobility and height cap like in pre-Ascension, because you couldn't do such crasy HF curves or sniper shots without height advantage.

 

Balance is a really tough goal to achieve. There is no place for vacillation, especially when game is in open beta state. There should be some core concept, and all additions/improvements (new mechs, weapons, map designing) should be done according to this concept. Otherwise we will always read such statements as "This weapon/mech is OP/crap" or "This map is unbalanced/has poor design". And I really hope that new dev team will make right decisions.


Edited by LarryLaffer, 23 March 2015 - 11:13 PM.


#7
Odra

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My biggest peeve is being thrown into a match that is practically over or siege games where the score gap is beyond ridiculous.

 

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#8
crockrocket

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+2 We need a thread that lists all the bugs and stuff.  It'll suck for the new devs to have to hunt all over for this one. :c Ran out of likes.....

ArchMech got a great start on all the map glitches with this post.


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Salvage: An Idea to Stop Leavers

Player Retention & Howken

 

[14:31] <Crafty> I know that in my balls
[14:32] <Crafty> hawken is unlike anything Ive played

 

 


#9
LEmental

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Regarding matchmaking, I'm referring to EVERYTHING that is involved in placing people on each team.  This includes the server browser, and in game balancer.  As of right now it allows players to leave and join whenever they want.  There is no "sitout" option when teams are unfair.

 

It MUST work and it MUST be scaleable.


Edited by LEmental, 24 March 2015 - 10:33 AM.

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#10
gopherAnime

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I have my Bruiser mech maxed out and the hellfire missiles are incredibly useless. I have no choice but to use it like a rocket shotgun more than anything in close range combat and rely on my primary weapon most of the time.

 

The Technician is also maxed out and the EOC Repeater is pretty much a BB gun more than anything.

 

I am sick and tired of these developers adding weapons to the wrong mechs and forcing you to have their crappy weapon setups.

 

U wot m8?

 

You have a tech with an EOC on it?

 

I find EOC fine on pred & rocketeer. Conflicts with grounded raider but some folks do great with it.

USM meant tech's PN-233. Its was never fine-tuned after release (took 1 year to release that prestige btw). It's a short range pistol, low dps, low 44 dmg per shot, awkward ROF doesn't know if it want to be sustain or burst, overheats faster than RPR (there's a video), and it's BRIGHT RED.

 

I agree with some of OP's ideas. Spawning in middle of enemies sucks. Sticky walls kill.

Other ideas relate to what you repeated several times: high level play. Before bankruptcy, two large polarizing groups were comp/competitive players vs casual players. There were other polarizing groups and Hawken took those ideas one at a time and we know how that went, or read: https://community.pl...sition-decline/

I play in servers mostly with 1200~2100 mmr range, mid-range, lots of casuals, 1~3 newb CRT's, also 1~3 occasional elite players. Don't forget high-ping vet players. It's a very broad mmr per server & balance is hard with low player count.

 

My view on this mid-level mmr:

Hellfires: A bit annoying on bunker, but with training I'm able to avoid dying from it. Eco enough trees/rocks I never found a problem dodging. HF still fun on uptown/origin, even though obstacles make HF useless, splash damage is passable. Occasionally I see 3+ bruisers in a Wreckage match doing great.

 

Most my TOWs never land, while my Grens often miraculously hit or kill. Tows are slow so long range they just move away (not even dodge). They start faster than gren so there's a farther min distance to air-detonate, which means you can't air-det near an enemy close to you. Last I checked min distance felt ~40m, basically 1/3 farther than how close an elite Infiltrator would fight. With all this 150-300ms ping & lag most folks only land a few Tows mid range.

 

Sustain dmg: I only found g2 assult & berserker most dangerous, the rest are bolt/flak burst weapons. Many sustains are short/mid range. Often guys shoot PPA at me mid-far range & I don't care, the spread is so huge like 1/8 bullets hit. Both weapons types suck with higher ping, but high ping players need sustain to get a few bullets, instead of none. That feeling when my G2 Raider 4 second MIRV shot an A class strolling slowly 20m away made 0 damage, and he wasn't even facing me. Leading a bolt on fluctuating 100~300 ping is frustrating, so most my mechs are sustain tuned. Spread, range & lag already lower sustain, and it's poor enough for corner play.

 

I think some changes for high level play are valid, but sweeping changes that affect mid-level or high-ping players could mean a lot of frustrated players.

 

In the past when Skill Trees lived, newb CRT's had training wheel buffs. So I'll suggest the opposite of some ideas: for new CRTs up to some level (or scale buff by level inverse), buff their primary damage (all sustains btw), buff their TOW, and more service awards early on.

 

Edit: stalemate TDM: Since ex-devs rebalanced tech etc 2-3 times months ago, I find mid level match rarely stalemates. The group standoffs usually lasts under 1-2 minutes. By then either 2 mechs run a flank, 3 noobs die in the front, and the pack keeps moving around the map or respawn miles away. The higher level the faster techs die, then the group follows shortly if it was weak. More often lone spawners die before they rejoin group, or the small group dies off. Even with tech-incin it didn't guarantee enemy wins, though it's definitely strong resistance. By then we see 6 EMPs in 20 seconds, and both groups scatter.


Edited by gopherAnime, 25 March 2015 - 02:27 AM.


#11
Chief_ChiLLaXN

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I just downloaded this game about a week ago and put 35 hours

I have a feeling that the weird spawning in team based games is so that a player has a choice of going solo or looking for his team

as for maps like the sandy or swampy or super hilly one I havent found any problems.

as for non symetrical maps that are almost symetrical they do have advantagous sentry spots when the other side has nothing

my opinion is both sides should have good sentry spots and have the same geometry .

for the squarish map with the snow I have found a couple sentry spots that give superior advantage which makes putting sentrys any where else feels like a bad choice.






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