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#41
Silverfire

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I know, I know.  "Git gud", right?  Some of you have been telling me that for weeks now, and here I am still getting schooled by the Vets even WORSE than before.  I'm wondering how many of the Vets "got good" themselves when there were multiple servers with dozens of players, so they were able to learn the game years ago with other newbies.  Try instead to imagine a person who has never played a FPS shooter before trying to learn the dodge-fest that is Hawken today, and then imagine 2500 MMR players and the "Smurfs" coming in to show us how its done.  In this new player's humble opinion, the "learning curve" for this game is not a curve at all - we start at the bottom of a sheer cliff.

 

 

It's not always "get gud."  I know plenty of players who have been playing for years and don't rise above 1500-1600.

 

Am I using "SRD", as you suggested, correctly with Scrimbot?  When I get into a match I type SRD to Scrimbot and he will tell me the MMR range of all players on the two teams, correct?

 

I've been doing it every match or so and its been very interesting.  First of all, I only click the TDM matches that are "3 stars" for me, or "2 stars" if 3 stars is not available.  In a "3 star" match, I get an MMR range of like 1300-1800.  I do "OK" in these matches, with my low MMR hovering around 1400.  But its interesting how when someone new joins the match and I run the MMR again.  If that range increases to, say, 2300 all of a sudden, does this mean the person who just joined has an MMR around 2300?  So far the matches do seem to reflect this.  In fact in one match I just flat out asked "Who's the one here with 2350 MMR?" (I of course had my suspicions when we're all at 100 or so points and he keeps getting over 500).  And he/she said that it was them.  But this person joined a low MMR game when there WERE high MMR matches going on (I know because I looked).  Another player with a high MMR kept thrashing us all last night before admitting "I shouldn't be here", and then finally left (thankfully).  Saturday a player with around 2500 MMR joined our low tier match, which I and others promptly left.  Also last night a "team" of super-skilled Scout pilots thought it would be fun to come down to our level and club some seals for a while.  Out of about 10 matches last night, I estimate that 3 of them were actually close.  When I asked a "smurf" whose score was consistently scoring 400 points or more above the rest of us how long he's been playing the game.  "Two days", he said, and I promptly left the forum.

 

I'm sorry, but I'm not buying the "no comparable matches thing" right now.  That may be true after about 2-3 am, but this weekend from 9pm EST to 2am EST there were MULTIPLE TDM matches taking place.  Players of this skill level are not just accidentally getting placed with us - they're deliberately doing so, and I'm getting closer and closer to not tolerating it anymore.  And this is after my son and I feeding about $50 of our own money into supporting the game.  I can confidently say that they will NEVER EVER get a very large player base unless they FIRST find a way to stop the Veterans from clubbing the weaker and newer players like myself.

 

 

 

My MMR hovers between 2150-2300.  I pretty much only use the autoqueue function to find matches because if the only servers available with space are 1300-1800 MMR servers, it will not show up for me as available in the server browser.  I cannot consciously, purposely pick to enter that server.  However, the autoqueue will place me in that server if nothing else closer to my range is available.  Understand if a server average is well below a player's MMR they cannot join it purposely, AFAIK.  It's the autoqueue that places them in there, and at sometimes odd hours it can be difficult to find matches in the server browser to actively choose from.  So if I'm dropping into a lower MMR server, is it my fault for having higher MMR, for the autoqueue to have placed me there?  It doesn't matter the amount of active TDMs, it matters in the MMR average of those servers.  If they are all in the 1500 average, and I'm 2200 MMR, what choice do I have? Don't play the game?

 

I buy the no comparable matches thing because very often there are not.  I see it, I experienced it.  It's a population issue.

 

This is an unfortunate side effect of a low player population, and this will only really change with an influx of players, both old and new, both low and high MMR, and the likelihood of that happening is highly likely if a content patch is pushed out.  The best we can do, imo, is to stick it out and wait for the patch, see what changes occur.  


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#42
harmless_kittens

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Well, I know that I was allowed to join one star matches that it said were "almost" out of my range, and when I checked the MMR range there they were up to 2300 or more.  But perhaps there is a "zero star" match also, which means its too high for me and I cannot join at all?



#43
Hyginos

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Well, I know that I was allowed to join one star matches that it said were "almost" out of my range, and when I checked the MMR range there they were up to 2300 or more.  But perhaps there is a "zero star" match also, which means its too high for me and I cannot join at all?

 

Only the server average is considered as far as I know, so a server with two players at 2500 and 1500 (thus an average of 2000) will ironically not be joinable with someone with an MMR of 2500 or 1500. This means that the max ranked player in the server may have quite high MMR despite the server being joinable by newer players.

 

Private servers that are out of MMR range are still joinable and will show up as zero stars.

 

On a more pedantic note, "up to 2300 or more" describes literally all numbers.


Edited by Hyginos, 28 March 2016 - 10:08 AM.

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#44
TheButtSatisfier

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Does the star rating that a player sees in the server browser represent how close that server is to your MMR?

 

For example, if my MMR is 2000, then servers with an average MMR very close to 2000 will appear to me as 3-star servers, right? And there's less stars as the server average moves further away from my own MMR in either direction (above or below my MMR)?


Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 28 March 2016 - 10:22 AM.

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#45
Call_Me_Ishmael

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Even when there are multiple matches available, as you saw this weekend, it is rare that one of those will have an SRD over 2k. It really is a population issue.


Agree. They're ALL no-star. At the mercy of MM for host location/ping or srd.

Kittens, for the first YEAR I played I got wrecked continuously. I started getting better circa Oct '13, and moderately 'good' by May '14. YMMV.

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#46
Epsilon_Knight

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Only the server average is considered as far as I know, so a server with two players at 2500 and 1500 (thus an average of 2000) will ironically not be joinable with someone with an MMR of 2500 or 1500. This means that the max ranked player in the server may have quite high MMR despite the server being joinable by newer players.

 

Private servers that are out of MMR range are still joinable and will show up as zero stars.

 

On a more pedantic note, "up to 2300 or more" describes literally all numbers.

 

Yes.  That is exactly what the star rating expresses.  I've seen 3 star games that contained Hestoned.  I've seen 1 star games that contained Hestoned.  I've seen 1 star games with no recognizable players where I ended up being at the top of the SRD.  Stars only express how close the games' average MMRs are to your MMR.  The idea is that 3 stars expresses an excellent game play experience because you fall almost right at the average for the match, and should find it the most fun.

 

Of course, parties, smurfs, atypical mech choices for a given player, etc, can all take a massive fuzz on that, so your mileage will always vary.  I recommend people have fun trying to blow up mechs and don't sweat the small stuff too much. 

 

To Harmless_Kittens: No high MMR players are trying to troll your games.  If you see that higher lobbies are available, it probably means those games were full or those servers were unavailable when they queued, otherwise the autoqueue would place them there.  Afterward, the player may remain on the server until they decide to leave, but often it's not malicious, they just take what they can get and play.



#47
Amidatelion

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Does the star rating that a player sees in the server browser represent how close that server is to your MMR?

 

For example, if my MMR is 2000, then servers with an average MMR very close to 2000 will appear to me as 3-star servers, right? And there's less stars as the server average moves further away from my own MMR in either direction (above or below my MMR)?

 

Correct.

 

-snip-

 

Alright, look.  We cannot choose to join a zero-star game that's not a private server. Once there are only zero-star games. our only choice is to queue. Once we queue, we have no ability to select what server the queue is going to put us in (aside from selecting gamemode). I don't even know how it determines one. I've looked up and found 8/12 1850MMR TDMs and queue, only to be put in a 1400 game. There's also the possibility that the game was changing over, or that it filled before the queue could find it. The best part is, people trying to join or selecting the server in browser take up a slot!

 

You are obviously getting frustrated by players with greater skill entering your games. There is no point in further complaining about this, checking people's MMR, or even checking your own MMR like this. You are going to make yourself neurotic. Take a break. Play bots destruction. Chill.

 

I am not even touching the aspersions about what will or will not make a game or learning curves.

 

Also:

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#48
The_Silencer

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aren't stars also related to latency besides MMR?


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#49
Amidatelion

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aren't stars also related to latency besides MMR?

 

No.



#50
The_Silencer

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No.

how do you know?


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#51
harmless_kittens

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Guess I need to take a break then.  I'll keep watching the forums, hoping against hope for more players of my skill level to join the game (not likely).  I don't have the patience to play the game for a year before I get better at it.  Sorry to be a bother, everyone.



#52
StubbornPuppet

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Guess I need to take a break then.  I'll keep watching the forums, hoping against hope for more players of my skill level to join the game (not likely).  I don't have the patience to play the game for a year before I get better at it.  Sorry to be a bother, everyone.

 

You weren't bothering anyone that I can tell.  If anything, I think your posts have actually contributed more to the community and discussions than anyone else in the last two years.  It is very helpful and important to hear the perspectives of a new player who isn't already bias and jaded from too much previous experience.


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#53
SS396

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Guess I need to take a break then.  I'll keep watching the forums, hoping against hope for more players of my skill level to join the game (not likely).  I don't have the patience to play the game for a year before I get better at it.  Sorry to be a bother, everyone.

 

I truly believe that you are the typical player experience in Hawken (with the sole exception of coming to the forums to voice your opinion, only a tiny percentage of Hawken players have ever visited the forums (ALL of them, the one that died, steam, etc)).  I am NOT trying to say that to be mean or to put you in your place, I just feel that the feelings that you feel are in my opinion exactly the reasons why no new players stay around more than 3 days on average (data from one of Joshs previous posts).  Hawken has always had this issue with new player retention.  

 

The saddest part is if the game was able to separate your money from your wallet BEFORE you figured out it wasn't for you.  Just seems like a shady business tactic.  

 

What you need to do if you want to continue playing Hawken (and enjoy it) is find a number of other players in your skill level, NOT MMR level, and play exclusively with them on private servers.  Note: higher or lower MMR does not automatically relate to higher or lower skill level.  Once you figure out what it takes to raise your MMR, you'll understand what that means.  Right now you assume that someone with a 2300 MMR is automatically more skilled than you, and that really isn't the complete truth, it just means they've played, and placed higher in more matches than you.  Its all about points in a match and nothing more, once you figure out how to get the most points in a single match your MMR will climb like crazy.  

 

If you are able to coordinate and get a group of similar players together and play matches on a private server, I'm sure you'll enjoy it without some unknown smurf coming in and ruining the fun.  Plus if one of those players has Admin rights to the server you are on, you can easily just boot that player in question.  I really hate that I feel like I'm selling a fuzzy bunnyng private server, but its the only way to separate and guarantee your enjoyment.   Playing in pubs will always be a crapshoot.


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#54
DieselCat

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Crock...I see it a lot too...matches with a high mmr of anywhere from 1900 to 2500+ on a regular basis. I personally don't mind it as long as each team has a balance of the higher skilled players that can make it where the match will be somewhat decent and not a blowout. Last night I was in a bunch of matches that had  mmr scores of around 12-1300 to 2250- 2500 and the matches for the most part were really competitive and several  ended with just several points separating the teams. 

 

I can see the frustration in newer or lower skilled players, feeling they aren't being given an opportunity to improve when getting their asses handed to them on a regular basis...but you are correct, the main problem is the low player population.

 

And I also feel it can be beneficial to players still trying to come to grips with Hawken, to keep playing in matches where there are more skilled players than themselves, watch and try to learn...there are lots of matches that are streamed and posted to give tips and pointers (I should be reviewing some of those :tongue: myself) 

 

I think the main thing for the Op is try not to get frustrated and discouraged, Hawken is a fantastic game. Not everyone is going to be a top tier player, or even want to be, but most players want to be able to do well and have a good time with this game. ATM, just not enough players in the same skill brackets to go around.

 

For the players that are good and drop into matches to maybe just cause chaos and stomp lesser players, don't be knuckleheads and grow up. Fortunately I don't think there are a lot of players like that, most of the really good pilots don't and won't antagonize weaker players. I think most go out of their way to say and do the right things...(though I'll say it again, there are a few that ruin it, so grow the fuzzy bunny up)

 

I just hope players like the OP, if they really like this game, hang in there. Don't let some of the bullies get to you and make friend that you can feel comfortable playing with in matches when you see them....... :thumbsup:

 

Apologizes for the long winded thoughts.       


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#55
thirtysix

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Smurfs are blue, short, wear white floppy hats... and smell funny


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#56
talon70

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Guess I need to take a break then.  I'll keep watching the forums, hoping against hope for more players of my skill level to join the game (not likely).  I don't have the patience to play the game for a year before I get better at it.  Sorry to be a bother, everyone.

If reloaded does some type of steam 'release' then there will be influx of new pilots but training is the real issue.

I realize your frustration but new pilots playing only against their skill level isn't going to teach much and is part of the problem with the current system. The basic training is too basic and there is no other in game way to learn. There is great info here and on the old board but most people do not put the effort in. Even then nothing really takes the place of seat time. I think short single player campaigns against bots kinda like coop is, could be training. Each mech could have one.

 

Any multiplayer fps on the planet that you play is going to take longer than a few months to be a mid level player. Having voip is an advantage most will have, but that doesnt mean much unless you again go looking for the help to get better at that game too. So why don't you drive your robot around and pew pew pew a little more while looking for info on the mech you like to play most. There are some youtubes out there by community members and if I were you  I would watch some of the TPG replays to see what the comp players. I need to get teamspeak to work so I can ask the better players for help. You should take advantage of that before giving up.

 

As far as the OP, the smurf is the player that nobody knows and has 500 more points then the rest of us but what does it really matter. Ignore your mmr and  just stay alive, stay with your team and try to get better.


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#57
TheButtSatisfier

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Guess I need to take a break then.  I'll keep watching the forums, hoping against hope for more players of my skill level to join the game (not likely).  I don't have the patience to play the game for a year before I get better at it.  Sorry to be a bother, everyone.

 

Is your son still going to play? Or are you both taking a break?


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#58
harmless_kittens

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Is your son still going to play? Or are you both taking a break?

He is frustrated as well, but not as much as myself (but he is much better than me too).  We are both playing Stardew Valley now, as suggested by others.


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#59
SS396

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We are both playing Stardew Valley now, as suggested by others.

 

Best game of 2016!


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#60
ev0l

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Such crap, who cares if players are better? Call me an old fart but I miss the days where i picked servers based on silky smooth connection, not how good the players were there.

 

QQ there is a good player on the server.



#61
TheButtSatisfier

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I miss the days where i picked servers based on silky smooth connection, not how good the players were there.

 

I... I forgot that was a thing. It's been so long since we had the population to do that.


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#62
WmMoneyFrmMissouri

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Heard a great idea for smurf name today almost made me spit out the coffee. RobsChemo if you see that it DieselCub you'll know I've tried smurfing.

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#63
angryhampster

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You can tell if they are a smurf if they kill you....



#64
coldform

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Yes this is all well and good but how,do you smell a smurf

I like going against the best of any game I play. Helps you in the long run n motivates u to do more. Always room for improvement not failure

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#65
TheButtSatisfier

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Yes this is all well and good but how,do you smell a smurf

 

Simple. It smells exactly like red herring.


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#66
DallasCreeper

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"I smell a smurf with my own two eyeballs"

                                       - Anonymous


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#67
devotion

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He is frustrated as well, but not as much as myself (but he is much better than me too).  We are both playing Stardew Valley now, as suggested by others.

i saw your son playing in a server vs. a 2700+ player and holding his own a series of 1v1s; he looked to be doing quite well for himself.



#68
crockrocket

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i saw your son playing in a server vs. a 2700+ player and holding his own a series of 1v1s; he looked to be doing quite well for himself.

Yeah I saw him when merl was streaming recently, and he was doing pretty well


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#69
harmless_kittens

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i saw your son playing in a server vs. a 2700+ player and holding his own a series of 1v1s; he looked to be doing quite well for himself.

Thanks, I will tell him this.  He recently got 18 kills, zero deaths, 12 assists with his Scout in a TDM match!  He really is quite good, especially compared to his "old man" :)



#70
angryhampster

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The seed is strong.



#71
MomOw

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Yes this is all well and good but how,do you smell a smurf

 

An account below lvl 30 with a player knowing the maps, how to dodge (and boost/dodge), how to hit a scout with a TOW, and at the end scoring more than average in a 1.8K MMR server is probably a smurf.

 

My definition of a smurf is any alt account below lvl 30 and with a MMR lower than main  (< -200, except if there is a good such as playing strictly EOC rocketard with ISM and holos)


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#72
angryhampster

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I like how you guys dig so deep into a topic that is completely irrelevant to how I feel about  smurfs.

 

hence the reason i understand the world doesn't revolve around me.  which is a comforting thought.

 

to keep my post relevant and unbannable; I'd like to say that:

 

yes momow; you are righit. using those MMR assumptions is a good way to determine if a person is a smurf or not;  200 is a good valoue to start from because that's the value you think is perfect. 



#73
DallasCreeper

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I will try and decipher a smurf by their name(which will commonly be silly or witty( EX: herpderpherpderp), a pun or imitation on another user's name (EX: HOHOHOSANTA --> HAHAHARUDOLPH; DallasCreeper --> dailascreeper(this one was a hacker so...)), their herokuapp, or an unusually high level of performance at a certain skill-level server. 


 

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#74
MomOw

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I like how you guys dig so deep into a topic that is completely irrelevant to how I feel about  smurfs.

 

hence the reason i understand the world doesn't revolve around me.  which is a comforting thought.

 

to keep my post relevant and unbannable; I'd like to say that:

 

yes momow; you are righit. using those MMR assumptions is a good way to determine if a person is a smurf or not;  200 is a good valoue to start from because that's the value you think is perfect. 

 

I don't get the irony of your post, I smell that there is some, but my nose just doesn't get the taste of it.

 

My definition of smurf is based on my personnal experience with alt accounts :

I created alt accounts for some purpose, and I found that underdog peanuts (i.e. below lvl 30), and too low MMR lead to screw-up matches results and other players MMR.


Edited by (KDR) MomOw, 12 April 2016 - 09:51 AM.

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#75
angryhampster

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there's no irony. i don't have the cognitive senses to apply that into any of my posts.

 

thank you for acknowledging there is something when there was nothing to begin with.



#76
Nov8tr

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SMURF - giphy.gif

 

 

NOT A SMURF - giphy.gif


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"Nov8tr" is pronounced "INNOVATOR"

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#77
StubbornPuppet

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I would really like the OP to finish their sentence.  I don't know how to answer this incomplete question - "How do you tell a "smurf"... ?"  How do you tell a smurf what?


To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#78
SS396

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I would really like the OP to finish their sentence.  I don't know how to answer this incomplete question - "How do you tell a "smurf"... ?"  How do you tell a smurf what?

 

He used a poor choice of word for the title, but what he meant is "how do you identify a smurf?"

 

Read the 2nd paragraph of the original post for context clues.

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fuzzy bunny you CZeroFive 


#79
angryhampster

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i jus had to do it

 



#80
StubbornPuppet

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He used a poor choice of word for the title, but what he meant is "how do you identify a smurf?"

 

Read the 2nd paragraph of the original post for context clues.

 

 

I know... I know.


To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 





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