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New Internal: Shotgun Barrel Choke

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#1
comic_sans

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A thing that bugs me about videogame representations of shotguns is that their spread is typically insane and not representative of shotguns at all; they're not really made to cover a whole person's body in pellets at 3 feet away.  Hell, in hunting, they're used to provide a tight spread and increase the chances of hitting a mid-range fast moving target, like a bird.  You can even change the diameter of this spread by putting different "chokes" in a shotgun's barrel.  So why not have an internal in hawken that decreases spread or damage falloff distance but increases heat generated for a tradeoff?  Shots would be harder to hit, and it's nice to know you'll always hit a little with the default spread, but this would reward better aim.  This would only be for shotgun variants, obviously.  Thoughts?  I'm also aware none of the suggestions in this forum really have a chance to take off until content starts dropping, but it's an idea I had that I'd likely forget by then.


Edited by clomic_snuts, 20 August 2015 - 11:16 AM.

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#2
StubbornPuppet

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Good idea.  I don't know if I think it needs a negative consequence, outside of that it must be aimed more accurately to do any damage.  On second thought, I suppose maybe it would need one, because there are some incredibly accurate pilots out there who would be able to ruin entire teams if we made their already deadly burst weapons even more accurate.  But for most of us, tightening the spread would actually make shotgun type weapons even harder to use.


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#3
CraftyDus

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Doesn't the reaper accuracy ability choke a shotgun primary if you weapon glitch?


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#4
Silverfire

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Doesn't the reaper accuracy ability choke a shotgun primary if you weapon glitch?


It does and it's quite ridiculous. Nothing like landing a full Flak 100% of the time.
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#5
Liederkranz

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The Breacher provides that right now, although I don't know if the charge time is proportional to the spread of the spikes or if full concentration is achieved only on full charge and any other mid-charge results in the same spread as if uncharged, I hadn't the chance to test it.


Edited by Liederkranz, 20 August 2015 - 11:32 AM.

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#6
comic_sans

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The Breacher provides that right now, although I don't know if the charge time is proportional to the spread of the spikes or if full concentration is achieved only on full charge and any other mid-charge results in the same spread as if uncharged, I hadn't the chance to test it.

 

It's either fully charged or normal shot, no difference.

 

Also yes, reaper abil affects any primary.  Vulcan gets to be about as accurate as an unaffected AR and it's NUTS, and it turns the flak cannon into 1 little hitscan wad of death.


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#7
Amidatelion

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It's either fully charged or normal shot, no difference.

Also yes, reaper abil affects any primary. Vulcan gets to be about as accurate as an unaffected AR and it's NUTS, and it turns the flak cannon into 1 little hitscan wad of death.


Miniflak: full auto hitscan wads of death.
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#8
LaurenEmily

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It's either fully charged or normal shot, no difference.

I could almost swear half-charging is a thing with the breacher. Please prove me wrong if you can.


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#9
DeeRax

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I know for a fact half-charging is a thing with the Bolt.
I, too, thought Breacher, on the other hand, had to be all-or-nothing. But then again, I have only played Pred like 5 whole times.

Anyways... Good idea for an internal item. Though I'd argue that a better idea would be to just adjust the spread and falloff of the weapons themselves. (Please, please, at least change it for the Bolt and Bolt XT. Such a cool weapon, held back by goofy mechanics).


Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 20 August 2015 - 12:14 PM.

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#10
JackVandal

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I could almost swear half-charging is a thing with the breacher. Please prove me wrong if you can.

Im almost certain its partial charged, it narrows the spread of the shot for slightly longer shots, iv goofed with it before releasing to soon and just having the shot hit a shield instead of breaching it.

 

 

EDIT: i have been corrected by my betters, no half charge spread on breachers, carry on.


Edited by JackVandal, 20 August 2015 - 08:38 PM.

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#11
JackVandal

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i think this could work with slight extra heat added, though i think testing should be done at some point to see if its op or not, as above, flack or mini could be very nasty with perfect accuracy.


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#12
Hyginos

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While I don't have a problem with this from a gameplay standpoint, it seems thematically different from the other items in that, rather than adding a conditional stat, it modifies an existing one.


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#13
comic_sans

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While I don't have a problem with this from a gameplay standpoint, it seems thematically different from the other items in that, rather than adding a conditional stat, it modifies an existing one.

 

Maybe there's room for that?  It kinda works in a similar way to TF2 weapons balancing.

 

Also T32 and HEAT both have partial charge, breacher doesn't.  The damage goes from 120 to 100 as soon as the shot is considered charged, IIRC.


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#14
Meraple

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Also T32 and HEAT both have partial charge, breacher doesn't.

I'M GOING TO TEST THIS RIGHT NOW

 

EDIT: Breacher's accuracy improving from partially charging is false, as cosmicman above pointed out.


Edited by (KDR) Meraple, 20 August 2015 - 12:52 PM.


#15
Kopra

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Maybe there's room for that?  It kinda works in a similar way to TF2 weapons balancing.

 

Also T32 and HEAT both have partial charge, breacher doesn't.  The damage goes from 120 to 100 as soon as the shot is considered charged, IIRC.

Which attribute is changed upon Heat Cannon's partial charging?

Also, since when did Breacher Flak do 120 damage instead of 144? but you have iirc granted immunity here, heh

 

As for the topic:

 

I disagree with the statement that shots would be harder the tighter the spread is, when it's quite the opposite. To get the full damage with high spread weapons you have to be 1) close enough to hit all/most of the pellets with a reliable probability, 2) aim accurate enough at the middle. With absolutely accurate weapons, firing at the general direction of the hitbox is enough as it will do the same damage regardless. You can be aiming at the edge of a mech's hitbox, for a Slug Rifle it means max damage while for a shotgun weapon it's expected to miss half of the pellets. Even if you hit say.. 1/3 of the pellets, the chances are that at meaningful ranges, the consolation prize is not enough, you will get gunned down. With shotguns you really need to be hitting at the middle of the hitbox, switch to laser hitscan or go home.


Edited by (KDR) Kopra, 20 August 2015 - 01:46 PM.

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#16
Amidatelion

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Maybe there's room for that? It kinda works in a similar way to TF2 weapons balancing.

Also T32 and HEAT both have partial charge, breacher doesn't. The damage goes from 120 to 100 as soon as the shot is considered charged, IIRC.


What? Heat doesn't have partial anything afaik. T-32 might, but i don't use it enough.

#17
JeffMagnum

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As far as I know, EOC and T32 are affected by partial charging, while Breacher and Heat aren't. 


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#18
Amidatelion

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Maybe there's room for that?  It kinda works in a similar way to TF2 weapons balancing.
 
Also T32 and HEAT both have partial charge, breacher doesn't.  The damage goes from 120 to 100 as soon as the shot is considered charged, IIRC.


What? Heat doesn't have partial anything afaik. T-32 might, but i don't use it enough.


As far as I know, EOC and T32 are affected by partial charging, while Breacher and Heat aren't.


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#19
Hyginos

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Shooting the video now.

 

Initial testing shows:

  • T32 does charge incrementally (looks like linear in 4 segments)
  • HEAT does not charge incrementally. It is either charged or not.
  • Breacher does not charge incrementally, it is either charged or not.

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#20
CounterlogicMan

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I want an acog + lazer sight on my tow launcher. 

 

On topic:

 

Normalizing shotgun spread would go a long way to making the weapons less frustrating to use (damn rng) and balance them a bit more against sustain. Less people getting away or less lost fights because the hearthstone rng gods decided to stop into hawken to rek you.

 

Eliminating the need for a choke internal.

 

Spread was reduced on sustain weapons. Burst weapons were left alone.

 

 

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#21
comic_sans

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Shooting the video now.

 

Initial testing shows:

  • T32 does charge incrementally (looks like linear in 4 segments)
  • HEAT does not charge incrementally. It is either charged or not.
  • Breacher does not charge incrementally, it is either charged or not.

 

 

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#22
SatelliteJack

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Horizontal choke on a mini-flak sounds like the end of the A class to me. You can dodge around all you want, but there's no escaping it. I approve.

 

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#23
SatelliteJack

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Hold on now, what about just making a new weapon? A shotgun with a spread choke, which can be rotated? Horizontal for slippery dodgers, vertical for things a little more stationary (or flyers). Could be put in a mech designed like an actual hunter. A B class, choked shotgun primary, X secondary, and an ability that mimics the SOS on enemy radar?
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#24
Hyginos

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Shooting the video now.

 

Spoiler

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#25
6ixxer

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I think this will not happen simply due to balance.

 

[in gameland] You have to trade range &/or reload speed for projectile damage.

 

High rate of fire / Accurate range / High Damage (pick two).

 

If this were a pay-to-win game that might be different.

 

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#26
6ixxer

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That's not to say the spread shouldn't be tightened in general. Just not an internal that = shotgun win.






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