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I like teamworks and I want to see more of that..

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#1
claisolais

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We've been discussing about nerfing buffing changing things individually. Or how useless a turret modes are.
I think because there is no teanwork, and we are not trying to promote teamworks, like the vanish of the old team voice chat... I know most of the time we're having a team of 6 solo pilots...and I hate it as well...
Fast kills shortened the gap for team taking reactions, fast speed does the same.. I don't like a scene that a Mech doing 1v3 and winning. :(
(consider me as a super noob)
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#2
nepacaka

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and we are not trying to promote teamworks,

 

6 assaults beats 6 bruisers. pew.

 

try increase your mmr, random people who play longer mostly understand what they should do in fight. well, you know, tech healing, brawler tanking, forming a death-ball, etc.


Edited by nepacaka, 04 August 2015 - 12:16 AM.

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Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#3
CrimsonKaim

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What's so bad if a player manages to 1v3 and win? Oh, he is in the enemy team and your team sucks, promote teamwork, yea, right ... hahaha.

 

On a serious side, the game is fast paced and by god, it shall stay like that. No scenarios where someone does a mistake and isn#t instantly punished for that (we do have these scenarios in Hawken as well but they are not 'that' bad as in other games).

 

If a team is too slow to think, punish it. It shows which team is better. Unfortunately, we have maaaaany bad teams these days.


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#4
Chickin

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I like chickens and I want to see more of them...


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#5
Elite_is_salty

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What's so bad if a player manages to 1v3 and win? Oh, he is in the enemy team and your team sucks, promote teamwork, yea, right ... hahaha.

 

You really have problems. I wish you the best.


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#6
Elite_is_salty

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I like chickens and I want to see more of them...

 

Just yesterday you said you regret having "Chickens" in your callsign  :sleep:


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#7
kaiserschmarrn_

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play deathmatch

its the only real gamemode


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#8
CrimsonKaim

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play deathmatch

its the only real gamemode

 

Indeed.


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#9
Aregon

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I kinda wanna recommend joining or creating a clan, however there is only one viable option here in EU and there is no point in creating a clan here in EU because you will have no players to recruit really.

 

So what I will say is get yourself couple of lads as friends, and play with them.


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#10
BL4CK_W1D0W

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@FakeName:

  • a single player winning (and surviving) a duel against 3 enemies either is extremely lucky, a damn cheater, or a smurfing veteran, using his op skills and mechs to stomp noobs, and therefore definitely on the wrong server.

 

  • we don't have MANY bad teams in the EU, because we don't have ANY Teams AT ALL - the matchmaking system (even including the party option) still doesn't allow a whole "team" 2 party up before the game starts, so your "teammates" are always random - more or less, and since the mm gone mad, good teamplay's a matter of pure luck because in most cases there IS a superior team, stomping the inferior one. Maybe due to the small playerbase, maybe due to unfavourable settings, maybe due to smurfing veterans, devil knows what reason for. However - even in the superior "teams" i rarely haven't seen any superior TACTICS, that led to victory - it's mostly the superior skills, and the fact that the superior team simply sticks together from the beginning, that makes 'em win. As soon as the inferior team is splintered, every single respawner can easily be stomped in a 6 vs. 1 in split seconds, while the deathball keeps rolling... I can see no special team-based "tactics", nor any kind of "teamplay" behind such playstyle. It's usually just 6 better skilled single players winning the match by combining their firepower, and even when they spread and play all as loners it's most likely they win the majority of 1 vs, 1 duels.

 

  • without a functional ingame voicechat solution there's absolute no way for tactical play anyway, and it's astoundingly hard to find someone that uses teamspeak on the official unofficial teamspeak server although the access is free there, and as long as the game remains in the current state, there won't be any "tactical" gameplay on public servers for sure. The only two options u get out there are: stomp or get stomped. Sad but true.

@Sir Aregon: Yes. To all this.



#11
claisolais

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6 assaults beats 6 bruisers. pew.

 

try increase your mmr, random people who play longer mostly understand what they should do in fight. well, you know, tech healing, brawler tanking, forming a death-ball, etc.

  I mentioned the case of turret abilities, I didnt say it out but...I would say different mech have their role.

 

Technician was never the default character in a FPS game.  

 

ADC --at least most of them cant play as Tank, something like that. 

 

brawler+ tech is efficient, and the game is not promoting any other combination to against this top combination--just an example.


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#12
claisolais

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I forgot to mention, but dont say anything about DM PLS, it has no difference than saying "deal with it or fuzzy off" here.

 

I am not here to complain bad teams, again, I am here saying that I want teams----without regular training things or timetable to follow

------------------------------Due to the connection issue, I cant play with many of my friends.----not those that I met in game.-------------------------------

 

1v3 is just an extreme example.  I am trying to say make the solo killing skill less useful will promote teamwork, at least something like that would.

 

 

Not enough player base, okay, ADH will takes the blame.

 

 

ITS LIKE NO GAME IS REALLY HAVING TEAMWORK SINCE MANY OF CASE THAT THEY CAN HANDLE IT THEMSELVES OR NOT ENOUGH RISK/LOST ASSOCIATED WITH TEAM-ABANDON ISSUES.

 

  I still remember one customized L4D2 map, that takes a whole night for three of my friends and me. It wasn't that hard but really requires teamwork, we had to stop after some failures, and held a meeting with pens and papers.  It was my best game experience ever.

 

 But I don't living in school dorm anymore. 

 

  I also remember one last-eco siege, a predator [TOLD] me not to give up on this team, and we turned it over---I wish I had more rounds like that, everyone  were changing mech to see if it suits the situation, and tried hard. --No one was over powered, and it wasn't FPS shooting or moving skills helped us , it was the first-hand battlefield experiences and teamworks, yea and that predator's words.

 

----I knew none of those ppl, I have no screenshot, not even a name, it happened, I cant guarantee the truth of that match--its been quite long, but that all I saw and felt.   I just want more.

 

I am like the opposite of talkative. :/ 


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#13
Badtings

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Teamplay is a part of hawken and when played well (at least in TDM) is amazingly fun. 

 

lately it's been pretty bad w/smurfs destroying new pilots. I've seen some really bad TDM scores (40-6, 40-10,etc)

 

While I understand there are a lot of players of the mindset that it's fine to jump in and dominate new players and that's how they

should learn (because that's how THEY learned) I think it alienates more than it helps 'teach' in a time when we need as many players as we can get.

 

While i don't think (for a second) that Veterans will go easy on newbs, perhaps you can at least play a mech (on your smurf) account that you're not too great with.

 

I say this as someone that loves hawken and wants it to do well. 


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#14
nepacaka

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brawler+ tech is efficient, and the game is not promoting any other combination to against this top combination--just an example.

Am a brawler and I dont care.
If you want teamplay follow me, am a central person in party, ololol



Yes, mostly point of view from above about EU servers is true. But actually, I'm always play with the same players. I.e. I always see this faces in fight. Sometimes I stomp noobs, sometimes someone stomp me. Mostly if my team leave me alone. (Cuz am a brawler, brawlers nut runaways). Never use smurFS and love it.
Balancing working not bad and gain me interested matches sometimes. I just press "play" and play. No problem here.

Edited by nepacaka, 04 August 2015 - 01:33 PM.

Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#15
TheButtSatisfier

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If you want teamwork then don't look for it in a pub. Join a league. Teamwork only happens when everyone knows what they are supposed to be doing, and very rarely will you ever get 6 pubbers to agree on what that is. It's not their fault, it's not that they are ignorant, they just all have different ideas of what teamwork is. Examples:

  • A Raider sees two low enemy units within boosting range. He fights them, expecting that the two teammates he saw 5 seconds ago will follow him. He doesn't see that they're being attacked and therefore distracted. He dies and promptly blames his failure on their absence. They ask why he overextended instead of reinforcing them.
  • An Assault is being healed by a Technician. Once fully healed, the Assault player begins to skirmish at a distance betting that the Tech is behind him. Instead, the Technician notices a nearby ally with low health and walks over to heal them. The ongoing skirmish wears the Assault down, but he stays exposed, now expecting the divine touch of the Green Beam. The Tech is busy healing someone else, so the Assault dies. The Assault player is furious that the Tech wasn't there. The Tech wonders why the Assault allowed himself to die.
  • Three allied players push one enemy flank while the other three push a different flank. One 3-man push gets crushed. The other 3-man push dies shortly after. Everyone blames everyone else. Nobody saw that the other flanking party died.

I could go on.

 

Hopefully you caught onto a pattern in those examples. There's one thing that everyone could have done in those examples to avoid those mistakes. It doesn't require voice communication, and it doesn't require typing. It's pretty simple, actually. Ready?

 

Use your radar to stick with your team.

 

Seriously. It's no more complicated than that. Check your radar all the time, see where the largest cluster of your teammates is, and go there. The tricky part is still doing that while you're attacked. It's not natural to look at your radar when taking damage, but do it. If you are that Raider that rushes in mindlessly, you'll be a lot more reluctant to do it if you see three enemies where you are about to go with no friendlies in the vicinity. Very few people can successfully fight off two enemy mechs simultaneously, let alone three.

 

The cool thing is that if everyone on your team follows this principle, you "accidentally" get a very tightly-clustered team. Nobody is isolated, you are all aware of the same area, it all works out.

 

TL;DR: anyone who is frustrated with lack of teamwork in pubs isn't focusing on the fact that they can only control themselves. Stay with your team. Use your radar. USE YOUR RADAR.


Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 05 August 2015 - 06:12 AM.

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#16
comic_sans

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Unfortunately, we have maaaaany bad teams these days.

 

What's funny about this is we probably have more good teams than ever and verifiably so.

 

also DONT U AGREE WITH ME OR MEATMAN THAT DM IS BEST, YOU ARE ALWAYS WRONG AND THAT MEANS WE'D BE WRONG AND NOOOOO NOT DM


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#17
claisolais

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If you want teamwork then don't look for it in a pub. Join a league. Teamwork only happens when everyone knows what they are supposed to be doing, and very rarely will you ever get 6 pubbers to agree on what that is. It's not their fault, it's not that they are ignorant, they just all have different ideas of what teamwork is. Examples:

  • A Raider sees two low enemy units within boosting range. He charges in there, expecting that the two teammate he saw 5 seconds ago will follow. He doesn't see they're distracted and being attacked. He dies and blames his failure on their absence. They wonder why he overextended instead of reinforcing them.
  • An Assault is being healed by a Technician. The Assault player, seeing his full health bar, begins to skirmish at a distance thinking that the Tech is behind him. The Technician notices a nearby ally with low health and walks over to health them. The skirmishing wears the Assault down, but he stays put expecting the Tech to swing by and heal him. The Tech is busy healing someone else, so the Assault dies. The Assault player is furious that the Tech wasn't there. The Tech wonders why the Assault was dancing in the open while he was healing someone else.
  • Three allied players push one enemy flank while the other three push a different flank. One 3-man push gets crushed. The other 3-man push dies shortly after. Everyone blames everyone else. Nobody saw that the other flanking party died.
I could go on.

Hopefully you caught onto a pattern in those examples. There's one thing that everyone could have done in those examples to avoid those mistakes. It doesn't require voice communication, and it doesn't require typing. It's pretty simple, actually. Ready?

Use your radar to stick with your team.

Seriously. It's no more complicated than that. Check your radar all the time, see where the largest cluster of your teammates is, and go there. The tricky part is still doing that while you're attacked. It's not natural to look at your radar when taking damage, but do it. If you are that Raider that rushes in mindlessly, you'll be a lot more reluctant to do it if you see three enemies where you are about to go with no friendlies in the vicinity. Very few people can successfully fight off two enemy mechs simultaneously, let alone three.

The cool thing is that if everyone on your team follows this principle, you "accidentally" get a very tightly-clustered team. Nobody is isolated, you are all aware of the same area, it all works out.

TL;DR: anyone who is frustrated with lack of teamwork in pubs isn't focusing on the fact that they can only control themselves. Stay with your team. Use your radar. USE YOUR RADAR.


In team voice chat may helps. Maybe I missed a loosing end and maybe one of my teammate saw it coming, he could have told me, instead typing?
8 out of 10 noob wont see words you typed and I might not see it as well while in battles. I myself have seen it many times, and have said many times "never you guys watch your radar?"

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#18
LoC_TR

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spread the word


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#19
claisolais

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spread the word

words in written is much less useful than instant in_battle voice lesson.. many noobs dont care after log off from the game.

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#20
CrimsonKaim

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DONT U AGREE WITH ME OR MEATMAN THAT DM IS BEST, YOU ARE ALWAYS WRONG AND THAT MEANS WE'D BE WRONG AND NOOOOO NOT DM

 

Paradox, hm? DM is indeed the best mode. I am not wrong, bish.


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#21
TheButtSatisfier

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words in written is much less useful than instant in_battle voice lesson.. many noobs dont care after log off from the game.

 

I'll put this bluntly:

 

My earlier post was made to highlight that your teammates aren't the problem. You are.

 

If you focus on your own positioning and situational awareness, you will become a better player. You will begin playing with other players who have accepted this first truth on the path to Hawken nirvana. You will rise out of the Doldrums of Noob. Practically speaking, your MMR will increase too.

 

Trying to get the newb population to practice teamwork is a large task, and that's why it's best to make whatever lesson you have as simple as possible. Which is why:

 

Watch your radar to stick with your team.

 

THE POWER IS YOURS


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#22
comic_sans

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I'd really like voicechat back too for the same reason.  While it's its own thing to learn to sort of curate an uncoordinated team, it's much nicer to have any amount of instant comms.


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#23
claisolais

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I'll put this bluntly:

 

My earlier post was made to highlight that your teammates aren't the problem. You are.

 

If you focus on your own positioning and situational awareness, you will become a better player. You will begin playing with other players who have accepted this first truth on the path to Hawken nirvana. You will rise out of the Doldrums of Noob. Practically speaking, your MMR will increase too.

 

Trying to get the newb population to practice teamwork is a large task, and that's why it's best to make whatever lesson you have as simple as possible. Which is why:

 

Watch your radar to stick with your team.

 

THE POWER IS YOURS

  Well I do help my teammate, but one at a time, now bring up my old mmr 2550 and consider it as a prove for me to be a successful "teammate helper" I cant be everywhere at the same time when they are charging to their certain death from every corner of the map.

  SO ( 1vs6 ) x 6 is my fault, suicide team,  forcing 1v6, something like that does not very sounds like MY PROBLEM, okay I loose a fight that is under 2000 mmr maybe it is.

  Noob cant see the situation if everything happened fast. help comes when they need it? they might JUST starting to charge, not that they've been suppressed for a while and could really need a help. SO they LEARN nothing from that.

POWER IS MINE, BUT I DONT WANT DO EVERTHING FOR A STUPID TEAM( just saying) , ITS NOT FUN TO ME.


Edited by claisolais, 05 August 2015 - 03:33 PM.

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#24
claisolais

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I'd really like voicechat back too for the same reason.  While it's its own thing to learn to sort of curate an uncoordinated team, it's much nicer to have any amount of instant comms.

 

A business without training from senior staff? Very efficient.  Not saying that playing game is a business, but efficient and turnover and retaining and motivations is something useful even here.

That initial VR training is just a movement tutorial, nothing more.


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#25
Gueber

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S

 

I'll put this bluntly:

 

My earlier post was made to highlight that your teammates aren't the problem. You are.

 

If you focus on your own positioning and situational awareness, you will become a better player. You will begin playing with other players who have accepted this first truth on the path to Hawken nirvana. You will rise out of the Doldrums of Noob. Practically speaking, your MMR will increase too.

 

Trying to get the newb population to practice teamwork is a large task, and that's why it's best to make whatever lesson you have as simple as possible. Which is why:

 

Watch your radar to stick with your team.

 

THE POWER IS YOURS

 

I don't think so, sometimes you just get a bad team. If I respawn and I have 5 teammates pointing in 5 different directions it's my fault? the power is mine?  In that situation even if i pick one and try to stick together if the other team has huddled into a group of 6 they are still going to run us right over 2v6. Sure I can tell the team to group up but I can't make them to do it and no amount of "positioning and situational awareness" is going to change that. Especially when they all choose to play solo/fringe mechs when it's not what we need to counter the enemies composition. About all I can do is try to lure some of the enemy out of their own group even if it means trying to take them 1v2 and/or lure them to the useless teammates and force them to help. Also not much you can do when you get someone that is determined to run from every encounter just to protect their own KD because their lack of presense puts the rest of the their team at a disadvantage (they will basically be playing a man down).


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#26
TheButtSatisfier

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  Well I do help my teammate, but one at a time, now bring up my old mmr 2550 and consider it as a prove for me to be a successful "teammate helper" I cant be everywhere at the same time when they are charging to their certain death from every corner of the map.

  SO ( 1vs6 ) x 6 is my fault, suicide team,  forcing 1v6, something like that does not very sounds like MY PROBLEM

 

I'm not saying that you are expected to carry the team or that you are supposed to be a team helper. As a matter of fact, when I say that you should use your radar to stick with your team, I'm saying it from a selfish standpoint and not an altruistic one (though it works out that way as a byproduct). Sticking with your team means that you get to watch fewer firing angles, you won't be surrounded as easily, and in any given firefight you won't be attracting as much damage because your teammates will be there to take some of it too.

 

I'm instead preaching that it's easier and more effective to teach a single lesson to all newbs rather than a more complex curriculum through voice chat. Hearing someone repeatedly offering sage advice in battle to random pubbers may be too much for them to process in the fight, or it may come off wrong and then you're just pissing your teammates off. That lesson of using your radar to stick with your team is one that can be typed.

 

This thread's title implied that we wanted to see more teamwork. I'm arguing that teaching more new players to use their radar to stick with their teammates will do more to promote something resembling teamwork among more players than implementing in-game voice chat will. If we want to turn this into a discussion about the merits of voice chat then I have some opinions on that as well, but I'm just thinking about it at a macro level.


Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 05 August 2015 - 04:04 PM.

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#27
Flifang

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A well utilized piece of cover, be it how small or big; can be just as good if not better than an entire team of mechs.

 

I just recently started to focus completely on my KLA splash game and I have been reaping the rewards.

 

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#28
claisolais

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I'm not saying that you are expected to carry the team or that you are supposed to be a team helper. As a matter of fact, when I say that you should use your radar to stick with your team, I'm saying it from a selfish standpoint and not an altruistic one (though it works out that way as a byproduct). Sticking with your team means that you get to watch fewer firing angles, you won't be surrounded as easily, and in any given firefight you won't be attracting as much damage because your teammates will be there to take some of it too.

I'm instead preaching that it's easier and more effective to teach a single lesson to all newbs rather than a more complex curriculum through voice chat. Hearing someone repeatedly offering sage advice in battle to random pubbers may be too much for them to process in the fight, or it may come off wrong and then you're just pissing your teammates off. That lesson of using your radar to stick with your team is one that can be typed.

This thread's title implied that we wanted to see more teamwork. I'm arguing that teaching more new players to use their radar to stick with their teammates will do more to promote something resembling teamwork among more players than implementing in-game voice chat will. If we want to turn this into a discussion about the merits of voice chat then I have some opinions on that as well, but I'm just thinking about it at a macro level.

Not arguing with that, just trying to say teaching itself is not applicable since they don't read your chat and log on to the forums.
1v6, hey I found a teammate their, that's made us 2v6! That's the mostof the case, not carrying because I m not that good, I can only see radar and find one of the teammate and help him. Voice chat can be annoying for sure, that's another topic of how to teach, I prefer to show them some fact to help them do their willing first.

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