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#1
talon70

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It seems to me that it is common knowledge in today's gaming world that derogatory statements regarding race, sexuality and religion are of course not allowed. If you have a private server, and if it is open to the public as opposed to a private group, theses behaviors should never be allowed. Even a brand new online gamer should know it is wrong.

 

Why do common online rules of conduct need to be more clear or open to determination? Lets get them carved in Cavorite then so server behavior rules are not ambiguous.



#2
ticklemyiguana

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gods no i did not just mess that up


Edited by ticklemyiguana, 14 December 2015 - 01:30 PM.

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#3
Silverfire

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lol cavorite is a fuel source you casual

 

vitroleum is the fuel source

 

cavorite is the weird low gravity rock things that make the mechs all light and floaty

 

nerd get ur facts str8


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#4
Call_Me_Ishmael

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It's the reason rocks float at the mining Facility

Did I say Call Me Ishmael?

 

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#5
TheButtSatisfier

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It seems to me that it is common knowledge in today's gaming world that derogatory statements regarding race, sexuality and religion are of course not allowed. If you have a private server, and if it is open to the public as opposed to a private group, theses behaviors should never be allowed. Even a brand new online gamer should know it is wrong.

 

Why do common online rules of conduct need to be more clear or open to determination? Lets get them carved in Cavorite then so server behavior rules are not ambiguous.

 

It's hard to define that anything is common knowledge - knowledge regarding any given topic may not be common among a region, culture, age group, gaming community, anything. Some 13-year old COD jockey may think that calling you a space n*gger is acceptable and a perfectly reasonable form of greeting. Screaming those same things in DayZ is acceptable for example. You get hog-tied and forced to drink bleach in that game, so calling someone a naughty word isn't really frowned upon when full-on torture is par for the course.

 

But, for the sake of argument, let's just accept that it's common knowledge not to say those naughty things in Hawken. Whether or not something should be fair game to say on a server is up to the server owner. If it's Reloaded, then they'll set the terms and have to find a way to enforce it. Same goes for a private server owner.

 

Are you saying that there should be some sort of player constitution where everyone is protected from the plight of naughty words in Hawken servers?


Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 14 December 2015 - 01:51 PM.

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#6
ticklemyiguana

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vitroleum is the fuel source

 

cavorite is the weird low gravity rock things that make the mechs all light and floaty

 

nerd get ur facts str8

I EDITED BEFORE YOU QUOTED ME DAMMIT. I DEMAND YOU REMOVE THIS LIBELOUS POST.


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#7
SS396

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This again?

 

Did the forums really need another thread about this?  Have some of you got nothing better to do?

 

 

BTW Talon, the solution to your problem lies in your own hands, use it.  Turn on the profanity filter, and mute individuals who you don't want to read.

 

 

 

I EDITED BEFORE YOU QUOTED ME DAMMIT. I DEMAND YOU REMOVE THIS LIBELOUS POST.

 

Its all about the slight of hand:

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#8
TheButtSatisfier

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Have some of you got nothing better to do?

 

Have you got nothing better to do than to point that out?


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#9
Silverfire

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I EDITED BEFORE YOU QUOTED ME DAMMIT. I DEMAND YOU REMOVE THIS LIBELOUS POST.

 

lol no


Edited by Silverfire, 14 December 2015 - 05:20 PM.

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#10
SS396

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Have you got nothing better to do than to point that out?

 

Someones gotta do it.....  apparently.


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#11
Nov8tr

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The only thing I know for sure is I'm old. And I'm pretty sure my name is Indiana. At least thats what my drivers license says! :yes:


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#12
CraftyDus

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derogatory language in a pub server in an online shooter is the real terrorism!

someone call the whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaambulance


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#13
talon70

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Nothing bothers me personally. It bothers others. Every other online game i have played or group i have been involved with has some type of rules regarding racist or sexist comments. That was my point.  Dayz is apparently different I have never played it.

 

I don't care really 'grow thick skin for online gaming' is what i said recently. But forum and server rules shouldn't vary or be unclear.



#14
coldform

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the psychological aspect of combat, specifically trying to enrage your opponent in order to coerce emotions to cloud their judgement, has been a vital tactic in combat since... ever.

Some of those who try to carry this over to video games seem to not quite get it right.

And, honestly, I don't have enough time or crayons to explain this.

Edited by (TDM)coldform, 14 December 2015 - 05:28 PM.

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I like going against the best of any game I play. Helps you in the long run n motivates u to do more. Always room for improvement not failure

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#15
TheButtSatisfier

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But forum and server rules shouldn't vary or be unclear.

 

That's a good point, and I hadn't thought of that. I just did a quick scan of the forums and didn't see a prominently-listed thread or guide to the forum rules, but then again, I could easily have missed it.

 

On a personal level I'm fairly open to just about anything being posted or said so long as it doesn't involve or start a witch hunt. As a result, if I had it my way I'd want the forums and in-game chat to reflect that: cursing should be allowed, or at least an option through a toggle filter. Spamming, as annoying as it is, could be addressed with a mute button. No combination of letters in any order should be outlawed basically.

 

My opinion would change if the forum / in game chat rules didn't match my preference. If the forums were more heavily moderated then I'd oppose the same being applied to in-game chat. For example, I'd be super pissed if there was a moderator who would occasionally pop in-game to tell me, "THIS IS NOT IN-GAME RELATED CONTENT - MOVING YOUR CONVERSATION TO SUGGESTIONS SUB-CHAT" whenever I talked about how scanners should be removed from the game or how they should remove the delay.

 

Any form of moderation is an opportunity for censorship. That's a difficult fear for me to kick.


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#16
ticklemyiguana

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lol no

look at the timestamps noob


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#17
nepacaka

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second candidate to being closed by tiggs?
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#18
crockrocket

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second candidate to being closed by tiggs?

If only it were just the 2nd


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#19
ATX22

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It seems to me that it is common knowledge in today's gaming world that derogatory statements regarding race, sexuality and religion are of course not allowed. If you have a private server, and if it is open to the public as opposed to a private group, theses behaviors should never be allowed. Even a brand new online gamer should know it is wrong.

 

Why do common online rules of conduct need to be more clear or open to determination? Lets get them carved in Cavorite then so server behavior rules are not ambiguous.

 

More open.

 

Because just like any derogatory statements that are in use today, the meaning or word(s) themselves change over time or from one group of people to the next.  Reloaded would have to be constantly updating their rules of conduct, forum rules, EULA, and anywhere else this is touched on to keep something like that up to date and that specific.  If you leave it vague an open-ended, you have a much wider net that this undesired behavior would fall into.

 

However, people need learn to deal with being offended.. this thin-skinned obsession a lot of people have with never having to be offended by suppressing anything offense TO THEM really needs to stop.  It's like watching a bunch of mollycoddled social morons foaming at the mouth every time someone dares speak whatever the banned word of the day is.


Edited by ATX22, 14 December 2015 - 11:37 PM.


#20
dorobo

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Space n*gger! ..sounds like a cool nickname.

 

Btw can more european peepz report that feeder person. thanks.



#21
CoshCaust

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It seems to me that it is common knowledge in today's gaming world that derogatory statements regarding race, sexuality and religion are of course not allowed. If you have a private server, and if it is open to the public as opposed to a private group, theses behaviors should never be allowed. Even a brand new online gamer should know it is wrong.

 

Why do common online rules of conduct need to be more clear or open to determination? Lets get them carved in Cavorite then so server behavior rules are not ambiguous.

 

Because freedom?

RFM0b09.jpg

 

Okay but really, my honest opinion: People should be allowed to say whatever the hell they want, because censorship is a very VERY VVEERRYY slippery slope which i trust no one with; and there are too many ludicrously simple ways of avoiding your poor widdle feelings being hurt- such as the in-game cuss-toggle option and, you know, the antichrist to this entire thread: MUTING.

 

Like really i don't mean to be rude, but i feel strongly about this and the mute function invalidates any and all argument near-instantly.

Keep Tumblr inside Tumblr pls.

 

Also you mean 'open to interpretation'- almost let it slide cause it almost makes sense...but we all know what you meant to say, which would've made a lot more sense.


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#22
SS396

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look at the timestamps noob

 
Pfft, time stamps mean nothing, you programmer noob.
 
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#23
ticklemyiguana

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Pfft, time stamps mean nothing, you programmer noob.
 

Spoiler

Silver didn't bother modifying the quote. Can you alter the timestamp of your own post?


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#24
SS396

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Silver didn't bother modifying the quote. Can you alter the timestamp of your own post?


Uh, no? I don't think so, pretty sure its locked into a database when you submit the post, so it'd be handled on the server side.

I was just trying to poke some fun and show you how you can change timestamps. He captured your first post before you edited it, so the snapshot of it remained unchanged, even though while he was spending a few minutes finishing his post, you edited your post. The two posts never actually reference each other.

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#25
JeffMagnum

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I mean on one hand I do love good-natured trash talk and participate in it all the time when I get a handful of people I know in the same server, but on the other there's definitely language that goes beyond that into territory that probably deserves a reprimand of some sort. Like yeah slippery slope free speech and all that, but clear targeted harassment shouldn't be tolerated especially when the game's blocking/muting function is relatively lacking. The sentiment of people needing to grow thicker skin is all fine and well, but culling the most obviously toxic players in a community to encourage a positive and inclusive environment seems okay to me especially in something ultimately as inconsequential as a F2P video game where the absolute worst that can happen is getting unfairly banned and having to spend two minutes creating a new account. Most of you (myself included) never have to deal with harassment and Hawken's playerbase is overall pretty friendly, but people of certain backgrounds can find competitive multiplayer games to be very toxic and consequently tend to avoid playing them or at least selectively hide parts of their identities when doing so. I've personally never been offended by anything I've seen, but I've stepped in on behalf of others to stop severely abusive behavior maybe two times in the almost three years I've been here and wouldn't have minded the offending players being banned in those cases. 


Edited by JeffMagnum, 15 December 2015 - 08:57 PM.

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#26
TheButtSatisfier

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... the game's blocking/muting function is relatively lacking.

 

What should be improved with the mute functionality?


Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 15 December 2015 - 07:39 PM.

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#27
SS396

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What should be improved with the mute functionality?


How about it remember that you muted someone in another match, and keeps track so you don't have to constantly mute someone when they follow you from match to match harassing you?
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#28
JeffMagnum

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Yeah, that's mostly what I'd change too. It's also easy to make new accounts to continue harassing someone, though that's a lot harder to prevent in a F2P game. 


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#29
TheButtSatisfier

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Thanks for the clarification. For Hawken in it's current form, I'd prefer the mute functionality changes you both suggested over a system that automatically censors anything.

 

That said, I'll admit that the more that I think about it, the more unsure I become about my position on the "prevent naughty words and phrases" to "allow anyone to say anything" spectrum. I think about the short time that I played League of Legends and its tribunal system. I have no idea how it panned out, but the level of toxic communication between League players was hilariously high at the time. Having a system which addressed players for constantly flying off the handle was a welcome turn of events. I think of that, and I wonder why I don't feel the same desire to have a similar system here.

 

It may be because the level of teamwork required to have a decent time in League is much higher than it is in Hawken. In a pub, I can rely on the "enemy sighted" calls and genereally ignore the chat because there's rarely anything of value there to read - at least, it's rarely relevant with how quickly the battlefield shifts. Then again, maybe we'd love to participate in Hawken pubs which involve the same level of teamwork and strategy you see in League matches that aren't entirely composed of noobs or scrubs. In our wildest dreams, where Hawken reaches a regular population just 2.5% of League, and where there's a ranked match system with pick and counterpicks for mechs, would our community become as toxic as theirs? Would we need a system which addressed that issue?

What an interesting topic.


Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 15 December 2015 - 08:16 PM.

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#30
JeffMagnum

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Automated word filters generally suck due to how unreliable they are, but there are a handful of words that don't have a place in civil discussion. I have no issue with unambiguous slurs based on gender/race/sexuality (e.g. c*nt [and yes I'm aware of the different meanings this has in British/Australian English, but Reloaded is an American company], n*gger, f*ggot) being automatically blocked, but all other words should be fair game due to the variety of ways they can be used. And people should be allowed to get pissed at each other and express their feelings regardless of whether they're positive or negative, but tbh there's no need to use words like what I mentioned above when doing so. They're ingrained in gamer culture but they're a shitty part of it that needs to die. 


Edited by JeffMagnum, 15 December 2015 - 08:36 PM.

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#31
CoshCaust

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I have to admit my threshold for allowing censorship isn't actually at infinity.

People like armored klown are obviously nothing but negativity for Hawken, and i have no qualms about purified toxicity such as him being banned...i just want that sort of censorship to be very rare and very, very well deserved before i see it.


Edited by CoshCaust, 15 December 2015 - 10:27 PM.


#32
Call_Me_Ishmael

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I have to admit my threshold for allowing censorship isn't actually at infinity.

People like armored klown are obviously nothing but negativity for Hawken, and i have no qualms about purified toxicity such as him being banned...i just want that sort of censorship to be very rare and very, very well deserved before i see it.

 

But even AK wasn't debate free - to some of us, he was truly just clowning.  Consistently.  I used to race, and I can think of examples in the racing community who were infamous for ticking people off while clowning (go to the WERA forum and look up Davie Stone, for example). 

 

There are others who are psychologically damaged who try to hurt (and I think we have some here, but they do not post on the forum). Those get banned, sure, but as a protection for both them and the community.

 

I could wish that AK weren't so consistent in the clowning, and maybe some people are super-sensitive to his jibes.  Censorship?  Uh-uh, we shouldn't ban him, IMO.

 

I'm not suggesting someone 'undo it', just that I think the decision was an incorrect one.


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#33
CoshCaust

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But even AK wasn't debate free

 

Exactly. Which is why i prefer staying away in general.
 

Censorship?  Uh-uh, we shouldn't ban him, IMO.

 

Well i meant temp-bans (but temporary censorship could work just as well) for specific cases of inarguable, pure toxicity- which i know can be debatable, it's just that...really at the end of the day what is trolling? Honestly the way someone acts is always this quantum entanglement where, until you 'find out for sure', this twat on the internet may be trolling, or he/she may just be a legitimate twat- but why even humor it? If you're just being a downright un-debatable twat to people and making everyone's experience worse- are you a troll? Maybe, but you're definitely a twat too.

The thing is, i don't trust anyone to make those judgments. For the reasons outlined above, i'd have no qualms about silencing something as useless as armored, but that's because i, like other avid Hawken players, am a sort of expert on his existence; we know what he does, we have a massive dossier on him- that's why he [in my mind] has earned punishment- he is clearly nothing but negativity for Hawken. The problem is that if we leave this sort of heavy-handed moderation up to, well, mods, it's essentially not even feasible for them to generate such a long-winded evaluation of a player before taking action.

 

Basically i think action should only be taken after a thorough evaluation- an evaluation so thorough that i know no mod would ever take the time to do it.


Edited by CoshCaust, 16 December 2015 - 03:00 PM.


#34
ticklemyiguana

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Regarding AK, I mean, he took it to some real extremes - like actual harassment extremes. When it gets to the point where community members, whether members of Reloaded or not, have to be careful about personal information leaking out, then I'd rather just ensure minimal contact between the individual and the community, which is what a ban is.

 

Regarding blanket censorship of words in game? fuzzy bunny no. fuzzy bunnyng fuzzy bunny no. Like, yay. The option's there to put on a word filter. I guess it's better than not being there.

 

Regarding blanket censorship of opinions? I'm also against that, but really really really for the people in the same server standing up, going "hey, you're a fuzzy bunny, so we're all muting you" and then just going on their way. Meaning I'm for censorship if it only effects the person who doesn't want to hear it and it's also evident that the censorship is a result of being a fuzzy bunny and not "because x opinion."

 

Solution? Easier report option, and more money in Hawken, because someone needs to sort through all that junk. If someone's actually being abusive with their words and detracting from the fun of the game enough that multiple people in a multiplayer game feel the need to report you, then it's probably economically worth it to negate the effect of the reported player.

 

Like always, more money will help solve the problem.


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#35
StubbornPuppet

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There is a difference between "filtering content" which is what is happening when a game blocks certain words and "censoring" where an entity seeks to squelch the thoughts and opinions of people so that they are not heard or spread.


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To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#36
ATX22

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There is a difference between "filtering content" which is what is happening when a game blocks certain words and "censoring" where an entity seeks to squelch the thoughts and opinions of people so that they are not heard or spread.

 

Wait, isn't that just a difference in severity when it comes to censorship?  Filtering out bits and pieces of content is censorship, so is outright removal of large chunks, etc. etc. and it can be self imposed or imposed by (in this case) Reloaded.


Edited by ATX22, 19 December 2015 - 09:46 AM.


#37
talon70

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I hate any form of censorship and  I wouldn't block any words personally . But it is not censorship to suggest pilots be decent to each other regarding gender or sexual preference ect. Especially when it is new players of the women and children demographic. 

 

People are not going to change and I know it happens. But in general the server policies for public should begin with "don't be a fuzzy bunny" .

 

edit:Merry Mechsmas to All, and to All A Good Fight!


Edited by talon70, 19 December 2015 - 10:40 AM.

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#38
Nightfirebolt

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Unless the EULA specifically prohibits people from being assholes in-game - and I'm not sure it does - Utilize the mute button.



#39
JeffMagnum

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Also re: my earlier post with the list of blocked words it was more about the forums than in-game; the profanity filter works well there for people who want it for whatever reason. For the record I don't think anything should be absolutely censored on principle regardless of whether or not I agree with it but the current word filter here is useless. Honestly I ultimately don't care what Reloaded does with their video game though lol. Someone was giving me fuzzy bunny for my earlier post last night in-game but for clarification you people just shouldn't be assholes to each other, I don't like censorship IRL, actual prolonged harassment should be a bannable offense, and a lot of people take this game too seriously.


Edited by JeffMagnum, 19 December 2015 - 02:18 PM.

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#40
WmMoneyFrmMissouri

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I think repeated mega toxic players (not really sure I've come across anyone deserving of this) should either be locked into an a-hole server hell where that's the only server (server group) they can play on OR they get dropped into a death match (against some community annoited ahole destroyer) where if they die they lose that mech fully including all skins or cosmetics and have to buy a new one. It defaults to the mech with most time logged. Muahahaha!
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