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Jobs and Ord Changes - Feedback Thread

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#1
CZeroFive

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Dear Pilots,

We'd like to respond to your feedback regarding the two newest Mechs the Ord and the Jobs.

First, the jobs and its EMP Blast ability. This ability is intended to give your team an advantage in a team fight, but now it feels spam-able and quite frankly broken. An error in a push to our live database caused some of the values on the ability to be skewed from the original design. As such, the changes to the Jobs ability - effectively immediately on XB1 and PS4 - are as follows:

BlastDuration 3 seconds (down from 5)
Regeneration Time 35 seconds (up from 5)

Regarding the Ord Mech, we've heard your feedback regarding its firepower. The intention of the Ord is to reward players who are able to effectively manage their heat and land shots. However with the heat per shot being what it was, it was very difficult to effectively manage a high enough level of heat to make use of the passive ability. We've reduced the amount of heat per shot to allow you to spend more time at high heat, and we also reduced the re-fire rate on the Magnum pistols to give them a bit more burst.

RefireRate .8 seconds (down from 1)
HeatPerShot 6 down from (8.325)

As always, continue to provide us with feedback, so that together we can continue to shape Hawken together.
Happy Friday - Hawken Devs


Edited by CZeroFive, 10 February 2017 - 11:59 AM.

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#2
Ornual

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Great job! Feels much more balanced in game now.

 

 

Clutch response timing to comments, that was super fast :)


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#3
Amidatelion

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Ord

I really like the idea of the Ord - had a frankly ridiculous Prosk DM with it on Tuesday where I managed to be more accurate on Xbox than I'd ever managed on PC and it performed tightly. The problem is... the match itself was boring. The Ord is a boring mech to play. Its guns don't sound great, its lack of an active is meh and while the heat juggling presented above is absolutely a step in the right direction, the other half of "managing your heat" is that it requires you to fire at nothing to maintain over long periods, which nukes your stealth. 

 

What I would suggest is that instead of just being "pure hitscan" weapons, that a an alt-fire be added to the Mag pistol which would, while held, stop the heat venting process (and iunno, maybe prevent firing?). Makes sense considering the lore of the mech ability too.

 

Jobs

Full Disclosure: I have not yet played this thing. I will on Sunday or Monday, but from the other thread, here is my concern: This is a mech that punishes the development of skilled play. The lack of dodging on console is already a problem; I have met 1 player ever who could chain dodge (and hestoned but he doesn't count). Right now my answer to just about any situation is to walk at it and shoot it until everything blows up - there is no need or incentive for me to actually bust out moves. With this mech there will be much less incentive for anyone to learn how to dance on console. And that will make this game boring. 

 

The other problem is the straight buff this thing gives to the worst mech Reloaded has designed to date - the Civ. The Civ instagibs A-classes and dinged B-classes already - a design concept that ADH blatantly and straightforwardly said they would never implement. Because it's not fun. The Civ is a plague on new players who don't know how to dodge and now it will be a plague on players that will be shut down by the Jobs. Was it not bad enough that you designed a mech custom made to stomp noobs? Did you have to buff it by expanding its stomp to everyone?

 

Finally, the Jobs demonstrates a basic inability to understand Hawken's mechanics. Your most valuable resource is HP and you manage it with maneuverability. Depriving anyone of mobility cuts into that resource with no counterplay available. This is not the first time RLD has made this error - but implementing ADH's abandoned Heavy Armour at least came with damage reduction. Immobilizing people functionally kills them - flinging damage back at something that can move with impunity is not counterplay. The danger isn't even in team play, it is in already overwhelming odds, i.e. exacerbating the snowball effect.

 

Also it's friggin ability says EMP Blast, what was so hard about giving it an AOE EMP like the incin's stomp?! Balance? IT EMPS ITSELF TOO!


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#4
CZeroFive

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Also it's friggin ability says EMP Blast, what was so hard about giving it an AOE EMP like the incin's stomp?! Balance? IT EMPS ITSELF TOO!

 

It's an AOE emp blast. You'll understand more once you actually play with it.

 

It shuts itself off (including all mobility / weapon systems) for 3 seconds. After the 3 seconds elapse, the emp blast goes off and lasts for 3 seconds. It has a fairly large cooldown now, so you have to be careful about when to use it.

 

I would also like to note that Heavy Armor is a completely new internal and it wasn't 'abandoned things that Adhesive/Meteor left for us'. We'd like to create whenever possible.

 

That was entirely my idea from start to finish, and to be honest, I kind of like the concept of internals like that, even if they're not competitively viable. Heavy Armor certainly isn't my first choice for most Mechs, but it has its niches with specific loadouts.

 

The counterplay to a Jobs is to identify it by its big head and don't stand on top of it, as the EMP blast is point-blank AOE. They are easily baited by anything that has mobility and projectiles, like a Scout or Recruit. They are slow enough in movement speed that they cannot keep up with anything Class B or A. Identify when a Jobs is in the match with you and act accordingly.


Edited by CZeroFive, 10 February 2017 - 01:49 PM.


#5
wischatesjesus

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I largely agree with Amid here, and he starts to get at why I really wanted the PC to get a patch before a bunch of new mechs were released.
 
All these new mechs (and stat changes to old mechs, for that matter) have been released into the wild without the RLD team getting the benefit of seeing them really thoroughly beaten on by the PC players before cranking out the next one. The creativity is great, but it would be nice if there was more careful consideration in the execution.
 

 

It's an AOE emp blast. You'll understand more once you actually play with it.
 
It shuts itself off (including all mobility / weapon systems) for 3 seconds. After the 3 seconds elapse, the emp blast goes off and lasts for 3 seconds.


So to be clear, are you rooted in place or just unable to dodge/boost/shoot?


Edited by wischatesjesus, 10 February 2017 - 01:45 PM.

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#6
CZeroFive

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I largely agree with Amid here, and he starts to get at why I really wanted the PC to get a patch before a bunch of new mechs were released.
 
All these new mechs (and stat changes to old mechs, for that matter) have been released into the wild without the RLD team getting the benefit of seeing them really thoroughly beaten on by the PC players before cranking out the next one. The creativity is great, but it would be nice if there was more careful consideration in the execution.
 

 


So to be clear, are you rooted in place or just unable to dodge/boost/shoot?

 

 

We're in a code freeze. We are unable to share the Mechs with the PC community because it's not possible right now to do so until the relaunch. When we relaunch, we can revisit that.

 

EMP Blast:

 

You are rooted in place with the EMP blast upon using the ability for 3 seconds. The Mech performs a small shutdown animation while preparing the EMP blast. You cannot use movement abilities (WASD, Boost, Dodge), and cannot turn, aim or shoot. Items cannot be deployed during this time, but all internals apply still.

 

The only mobility that can happen is if you are boosting forward, and then activate the ability - the boost will stop, but you will be launched in the direction you are boosting during the shutdown due to inertia and gravity will still apply. You cannot change the direction of your Mech falling once the ability is active, though the ability will go off around your position, not where you activated the ability.

 

When the ability goes off and affects other players in a small radius around the Jobs, the players can look around (Mouselook), can still fire, and can fire their primary and secondary weapons - they will still benefit from the internals they have equipped and can still activate their abilities/items. The only thing they cannot do while immobilized is movement (WASD, Boost, Dodge). Affected players have a particle effect around them and a giant EMP blast is present as a particle effect resonates from the Jobs performing the ability.


Edited by CZeroFive, 10 February 2017 - 02:03 PM.


#7
americanbrit14

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We're in a code freeze. We are unable to share the Mechs with the PC community because it's not possible right now to do so until the relaunch. When we relaunch, we can revisit that.

Still no date on the relaunch though right? not even a "Possibly one of the halfs of this year"


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#8
nepacaka

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It's an AOE emp blast. You'll understand more once you actually play with it.

My own vision of possible solution:

1) - EMP blast probably shouldn't working through walls/ceiling (it is actually not a big problem, if blast will not be stun you/enemies, and start working like different variation of EMP)

2) - ok. it is an EMP blast.
let Jobs disable enemy team weapons, but also disable jobs weapon. no stun here. i mean, working like real EMP with bigger spherical radius, and disabled yourself anyway.
it is mean, jobs can "disarm" whole enemy team on 3-5 sec, but only his teammates can help him kill enemies. enemies also still have ability runaway to regroup, or dance when their weapons not working, or trying to cover or something else.

3) Ability reloading time. can be 2 variants.

- super long (50-60 sec), shutdown weapons to 3-5 sec.
pros
1 - you can't use it often
2 - you can buy internal if you want lower reloading time with kill/assist
cons
1 - you can play like a "stupid-suicide-idiot". rush into enemy group, press F, repeat.
2 - several Jobs in one team can do something really weird things by disabling 

- super short (12-15 sec), shutdown enemy weapons to 1-2 sec. 
pros
1 - several Jobs in one team con do some things and making some discomfort to enemy team (like a micro-stun, which can stopping you, or prevent you a making last shot to runaway enemy, etc.)
2 - you can't play like a "stupid-suicide-idiot", even if you rush to enemy team, disable them and die, it not give your team very big profit. will be more good for your teammates if you will be alive and halp them every time with "micro-stuns" (or disabling their weapons)
cons
1 - you need press F very often. it is bad if you play on brawler long and don't know where is F...

anyway, don't touch mechs mobility!

in short, i will be glag to see this ability 
vice versa. that Jobs disable ability to shoot for youself/enemies (like EMP do), insted WASD-stun.
 


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#9
crockrocket

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How would people feel about Jobs disabling healing from all sources rather than removing mobility?


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#10
nepacaka

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About Ord.
1) I think, players should have some mechs like this. I mean, several easy to use mechs, which can be played with WASD + LMB/RMB.

i really like conception of slug SS, for example. but when i trying to play on it, it momentally enrage me. i use config which allow me shoot with LMB with both hands, and use RMB as a zoom-mode, but even with this, it requres from you fully "concentration". you need concentrate on every shoot, if not - you're useles. it is not "relaxing" and fun gameplay. because you always need press zoom, shoot, unpress zoom, and at the same time do some maneveurs to not get bullets in face, or jumping around. and a problem with mouse sensitivity in zoom-mode, oh... i really hate this.

Ord just solve this problem, because you no need use zoom and you aim in standart mode. you still need be accurate, but it is more based on reflexes. you just play. at current moment, i know only several mechs (personaly for me) with the same comfort of gameplay. it is SMC-TV (SMC-assault), flak-brawler, heat-gren, heat/EOC-infil. All other mechs suffer with his own problem and always requires to do something from player, you can't just disable head and play intuitively.

i'm not say that playing on Pred (for example) bad, but such mech sometimes making your tired from such gameplay. Another example - incinerator. i can't play on this even if i want. After several minutes i tired constantly press LMB+RMB, and start hate this game. or rocketeer/bruiser, it is stupid press scrolling every second. i hate it.
i know, some people love such gameplay, but here also people who want play without many buttons. I also want to see at least one more C-class and B-class with TOW. cuz it is good, and we have bunch of mechs with GL. i think, nothing bad to get several good mech which can be easy and reliable as a brawler.


2) Ord ability image.
i think, it is look like "Ghost" which flying in right direction. It is really don't look like a fire (or what is this?) for me.
maybe it should look like something like this?
it is bullet in fire.
i don't know why, but i think it is more appropriate image of ability, you see that this related with your bullets, and heat (maybe it is only for me)
jaXn54B.png
 


Edited by nepacaka, 12 February 2017 - 12:34 PM.

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#11
nepacaka

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How would people feel about Jobs disabling healing from all sources rather than removing mobility?

sound doubly.
can be quite useless in siege mode if both team don't have a tech. due the except repair-kits you can't healing in siege. the good things can be, if Jobs will be disable internals also.

the bad side: the last thing which i want to see in siege (and in other gamemodes) it is combo Inci+Tech+Jobs. if jobs will disable your heal, you suffer even more against Inci+tech (or someone+tech).
in my opinion, it make you Hate this game even more, and making mech like this making them a little "mandatory" to play. i mean, you see Inci+tech+jobs combo, and you understand that you should pick jobs to to do something against them, as a result you should always pick them, bacoz jobs imba and disable the heal and can counter inci+tech combo easily. 
It looks as if the game makes you choose the right mech, instead of you playing on the mech, which you really want.
look at the siege in random pub. it is 90% the same. every fight is a Inci+tech+rockee+3 any mech (raider, scot, bers, salt, vanguard, gren, pred with the same weapons loadout). very rare people pick something like brawler, bruser, g2, except situations with new players who just buy this mech bacoz looking cool.

with this it is always be Inci+tech+jobs+rockee+ 2 another mechs. not because idea with healing good or bad, but imho, it is only in game another mech-combination which you will be HATE in every match when you see it. and after month of play aginst these you will be hate EVERYTHING in this fuzzy bunny game  :laugh:


Edited by nepacaka, 10 February 2017 - 03:59 PM.

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#12
DeeRax

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Spoiler

This is awesome. Sorry RLD, but the current icon for Ord is kinda' doofy.

Anyways... My main feedback is going to sound like a broken record at this point, BUT: Are you sure we need fuzzy bunnyng Mei in this game?
"Next up!: Roadho-I mean check out this cool mech with a cool grappling hook! 20$ pls"

I mean I love OW, and I play it a lot, but eventually I'll want to play HAWKEN again (i.e. PC relaunch?), and when I do I'd prefer it to be HAWKEN and not a crappy OW clone with mechs. When I wanna' play OW, I'll just play OW.

 

Sorry to be so blunt, I guess. I'm really not trying to sound like a whiny troll, sorry if I'm coming off that way. :turned:


Edited by DeeRax, 10 February 2017 - 05:33 PM.

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#13
DeeRax

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Like others have suggested, just make the thing emit a regular HAWKEN EMP (maybe bigger or something. Maybe it can be a big EMP that also adds the ISM effect as icing on the cake) that also EMPs itself. That would be cool and fit HAWKEN better, but still have a similar play style.


Edited by DeeRax, 10 February 2017 - 05:45 PM.

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#14
CZeroFive

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Still no date on the relaunch though right? not even a "Possibly one of the halfs of this year"

 

We're getting very close to announcing a date. When a date is available we'll post it. Until then...

 

Early 2017. :)


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#15
WillyW

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For the record, disabling movement (wasd, boost, dodge, mouse movement) is absolutely not an EMP by the HAWKEN definition. If you get hit by a normal bouncing EMP, it does not immobilize you; it just prevents you from shooting back or using items to defend yourself.

I fully agree with Amid's pre-analysis, but I would like to add that I am severely disappointed with the idea and implementation of immobilization. Totally not what HAWKEN needs. Normal EMP items are already annoying and a pain in the ass, but a version that immobilizes you as well is just ridiculous and, frankly, terrible insight towards the mechanics that HAWKEN offers.

If you change the Job's ability to act like a normal EMP, that is used as an item, but as an ability instead, then it seems reasonably balanced. I would also add that, if you make this change, then the Jobs should also be completely immune from its own EMP ability, be immune from all EMP items, and be immune from the EMP ability of other enemy Jobs mechs.


Edited by WillyW, 10 February 2017 - 07:04 PM.

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#16
PsychedelicGrass

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A couple of people have said the ability for the jobs mech should be like the emp item and I agree, seems way more balanced. I don't think it's a good idea to give anyone the option of preventing enemy mech movement given the importance of moving around


Also if it acts like an emp maybe the amount of time required to use the ability should be reduced. I dunno how long the incinerator ability takes; maybe it's the same, if not i think it should be. Basically the same ability as incin but an emp effect instead would probably be pretty balanced.


If you're set on the ability preventing movement it might be a good idea to increase the cooldown a bit more.

Edited by PsychedelicGrass, 10 February 2017 - 07:15 PM.

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#17
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We're getting very close to announcing a date. When a date is available we'll post it. Until then...

 

SoonTM

FTFY


 

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#18
Sigil_

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A couple of people have said the ability for the jobs mech should be like the emp item and I agree, seems way more balanced. I don't think it's a good idea to give anyone the option of preventing enemy mech movement given the importance of moving around


Also if it acts like an emp maybe the amount of time required to use the ability should be reduced. I dunno how long the incinerator ability takes; maybe it's the same, if not i think it should be. Basically the same ability as incin but an emp effect instead would probably be pretty balanced.


If you're set on the ability preventing movement it might be a good idea to increase the cooldown a bit more.

 

Incinerator's ability has a 2s cooldown, and you need to have enough heat before you can fire it again. EMP is an item, so 7s cooldown, 5s with the Item Regenerator. Since the PPA is the 'best' Incinerator weapon it works out to be about the same or slower than EMP spam considering it's spin-up time.

 

I have a couple questions about EMP Blast. Can the 3s telegraph animation be interrupted by destroying the Jobs? Is Jobs only disabled during this animation, or for the entire ability duration? EMP items have a distinctive audio tell, does EMP Blast have something similar?

 

I think it's a neat idea, adds some requirements for focus fire and spacing, but it seems like a handful for balance.

 

Ord seems to be on the right track with more fire rate and less heat, letting you get in more shots at high heat levels. I really don't know how well it would perform with mouse-level accuracy, so it might seem weaker on console than on PC. Adding an Alt-fire would help it out, but I don't know if it needs it or not. I'll throw in the idea of it toggling between the normal cooldown cycle that mechs have and the Incinerator's feature where it cannot vent its heat. That would help keep it off radar when not fighting.


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#19
Ornual

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I have a couple questions about EMP Blast. Can the 3s telegraph animation be interrupted by destroying the Jobs? Is Jobs only disabled during this animation, or for the entire ability duration? EMP items have a distinctive audio tell, does EMP Blast have something similar?

 

 

As soon as you press the button, the ability will activate regardless of the mech's destruction or not.

 

The Jobs is free to move once the ability is activated.

 

The mech emits the same beeping sound as the EMP charge when it is deploying.

 

 

 

It is actually quite balanced now, with having such a small radius of effect (post nerf) it is fun (not the easiest thing to use anymore), yet not over powered as it was upon release. 


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#20
ARCH3TYP3

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The most hated item in the game is the scanner, followed closely by the EMP.
It sounds like this mech will potentially be an EMP on steroids, much to the chagrin of the whole PC playerbase.
After being EMPed, it is a player's skill and creative movement which can really make gameplay fun and competitive for the critical moments that the enemy has the advantage.
Without playing against it yet, I can confidently say that removing the ability to move sure "sounds" like a bad idea.

Edited by ARCH3TYP3, 10 February 2017 - 09:40 PM.

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#21
nepacaka

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If you change the Job's ability to act like a normal EMP, that is used as an item, but as an ability instead, then it seems reasonably balanced. I would also add that, if you make this change, then the Jobs should also be completely immune from its own EMP ability, be immune from all EMP items, and be immune from the EMP ability of other enemy Jobs mechs.

you "add" something completely crazy. or it is a joke.

when you use regular EMP in cqc, you have a very big chance "hit yourself", and you also should do direct hit with EMP, or nothing happen and enemy just avoid it by dodge. 
if EMP-blast would working like ordinary EMP, but not affected on jobs, he just going close to you, preff F, and now you can't shoot, but Jobs can. you died. it will be a super-annoying ability.

current EMP (i mean item) not annoying. like i say, most of time you get in face and enemy also disarmed bacoz hit both. If enemy throwing it from long distance, or throw it in shield, you can retreat or find some covers, or trivially runaway from him 3-5 seconds like if you was overheated, here is nothing impossible to survive after EMP.

i don't think the EMP is annoying or OP or something else, and i don't hate EMP (but i hate stupid game mechanics without global cooldown, which allow you spam items and abilities), but i think having mech which is a literally "walking EMP" version, and not turnoff himself using the ability of standing face-to-face with you ... it's definitely a thing that will hate.

the same with stun-mechanics. all what i see now, it is absolutely suicidal mechs for idiots. you jump into enemy group, press F, and you stand, and they stand. but they can shoot and you not. obviously, they kill you, and than (maybe) your team kill them while they can't do nothing. it's worth to hate it, bacoz it is very not good mechanic and realization.


Edited by nepacaka, 11 February 2017 - 01:07 AM.

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Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#22
nepacaka

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It is actually quite balanced now, with having such a small radius of effect (post nerf) it is fun (not the easiest thing to use anymore), yet not over powered as it was upon release. 

it is also bad.
just right now it is remind situation with incinerator, which have imba/good ability from start, due the very big range, such wow, much kill. obviously, devs nerfed it and... now it is useless ability which you can use effectively probably one time in several fights (and you 99% die after using it, bacoz while you have standing animation, someone from enemy team will kill you... because you can't moving (i.e. you got stun :P). this is why jobs ability shouldn't stun! inci after ability got 1-1,5 sec animation stun, and most of time he can't survive after use (or if he miss ability in 1vs1, for example), incinerator is quite revealing here, and how 1-2 sec of stun related with amount of HP which you have :D

edit. alot of babaji mistakes xD


Edited by nepacaka, 11 February 2017 - 01:23 AM.

Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#23
dorobo

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What if that emp ability is on a map's scale and everyone gets the effect even the user gets affected but idk let's say he recovers smtn like 1 second earlier compared to everyone else. Or not even that.  It would be something to stop very hairy situations to help someone get away or just rearrange figures on the chessboard. BOOM! Everyone stop shooting and they can only move for a period of time like 7-10 seconds? Regroup! Back on. 

 

edit: or in a chokepoint stalemate situation ability ON emp wave goes out. Guns OFF. Everyone go in safely pick their targets and wait for a restart.. Im interested how it could bring chaotic situation back in order and orderly into chaotic.

 

tumblr_m4kcv3UiTW1qh33kso4_250.gif

 

edit2: needs a long reuse timer and im a bit worried what would a whole team of these would do (needs testing). Also maybe the radius might be smaller than everything but really big so it would be very hard to just hit an enemy team


Edited by dorobo, 11 February 2017 - 02:36 AM.

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#24
Kopra

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Dear Pilots,

RefireRate .8 seconds (down from 1)
HeatPerShot 6 down from (8.325)

Oh boy, numbers!

If you fire the pistols at the same time, you will get a heat accumulation over time that is a multiple of 12 heat units, adding up every 0.8 seconds. There is a small cooling (assuming it hasn't changed) of 3.3 heat/s when you're not cooling off in the rapid manner. In gameplay it's rather unnoticeable, but it's there. I assumed the cooling to be happening constantly, the resolution being 0.1 s.

fKmCT8G.png?1

So, now that we have a heat profile over time, it's easier to calculate damage steps. If the damage bonus is +100% damage increase at 100 heat, firing both pistols at the same time yields:
70×(1+heat/100) damage.
70 damage at no heat and 140 at full heat.

Taking up the heat value right before an instantaneous increase and plugging it into the formula yields following damage steps.

d 70.00	76.78	83.34	89.89	96.44	103.0	109.5	116.1	122.6	129.2	135.8
t 0.000	0.800	1.600	2.400	3.200	4.000	4.800	5.600	6.400	7.200	8.000

By taking a cumsum and plotting it over time you get this:

5uqPYh8.png?1

So you're getting around 1135 damage from zero heat to overheat.

Small note:

Spoiler


I guess there are optimal heat values to "stay at" for killing various A, B and C class mechs. Even at 0 starting heat it seems to be comparable to the Slug Reaper for killing A-class mechs at an optimal distance.


...
I don't even play this game.


Edited by Kopra, 11 February 2017 - 05:10 AM.

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#25
Onstrava

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Can someone drop a link for the info on these mechs? Not everybody has a console you know or wants one, thanks cubs.

Hold on to the things you care about most, even if others see it as insignificant..If you can't be true to yourself, are you really living?

W4znwFO.jpg1sHSjPn.png1sHSjPn.pngMLIZlEa.pngMLIZlEa.pngMLIZlEa.pngMLIZlEa.pngMLIZlEa.pngZVn3Cxy.pngZVn3Cxy.pngZVn3Cxy.pngbANk8SP.jpgMLIZlEa.pngMLIZlEa.pngMLIZlEa.pngMLIZlEa.pngMLIZlEa.pngMLIZlEa.pngMLIZlEa.pngZVn3Cxy.pngZVn3Cxy.pngZVn3Cxy.pngZVn3Cxy.pngZVn3Cxy.pngZVn3Cxy.pngZVn3Cxy.pngZVn3Cxy.pngZVn3Cxy.pngZVn3Cxy.pngMLIZlEa.pngMLIZlEa.pngZVn3Cxy.pngZVn3Cxy.pngZVn3Cxy.pngZVn3Cxy.pngZVn3Cxy.png1sHSjPn.pngW4znwFO.jpg


#26
DieselCat

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I say bring back the 7 second EMP with a free scanner ... :rolleyes:


Edited by CZeroFive, 11 February 2017 - 12:55 PM.

Just Relax....and take life one game at a time....

Don't run to your death....walk

 

th_Duckman.jpg   th_82c0a97c-98de-4aac-be47-05e5e099be80.

 

*+

 


#27
CZeroFive

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I cleaned up the thread a bit, please make sure to keep feedback to the Jobs/Ord. Makes it easier for us to sort through legitimate concerns. Thanks :)


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#28
Ornual

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  Here are the   ORD/JOBS Stats screens.


Edited by Ornual, 12 February 2017 - 01:44 AM.

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   PC/Xbone Hawken player. Community Organizer for the Hawken Community Xbox group (2100+ members and counting).                                                                                          

                                                                                 Controller FPS controls over Keyboards any day!                                      

                                                                             N8GCbTB.png


#29
_SARIN_

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I have a quick question, does the EMP blast effect the friendly team of the Jobs as well? If not, and the Jobs still doesn't really seem that balanced it might be a good way to add a little more balance. The EMP item works on friendlies so it would make sense if an EMP ability worked on friendlies too. I know a concern with this would be that the Jobs would become a troll mech and people would just run around freezing their team if they get mad, but I recently read a thread where someone followed a teammate around with the EMP item and used it on their team out of spite, so I don's think that giving one more EMP would make that much of a difference. Also, I feel the same as a lot of the other posts on this thread that touching mobility is a bad idea, at least for PC Hawken. Maybe when you add Jobs to PC give us a test period where we get to try out the mech and if the mobility stopping is too much of a problem, then make it to where it is just a regular EMP blast or maybe a little bit of a slow on the PC, because mobility is a much bigger part of PC gameplay than it is on console (from what I have heard anyways) so maybe the mobility stop on console is ok, but I doubt stopping mobility will be fine on PC.



#30
Silverfire

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for anyone looking for Jobs gameplay:

 


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lNM7VnC.png

( ^ click for the EMP song ^ )

 

Come take a look at Hawken guides | Join me on #hawkenscrim IRC

 

 


#31
WmMoneyFrmMissouri

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I like the rev-gl corsair combo.

wmmoney.png


#32
nepacaka

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I like the rev-gl corsair combo.

i like that moment in video where player literally making suicide with ability.

bacoz if you stand in hawken -> you ded. it is quite the same with incinirator self-stun. this is why i suggest replace stun with disarm. (or at least decrease speed, but not stun everyone and yourself. + very much suicidal ability)


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Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#33
DallasCreeper

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That overheat recovery is extremely fast, almost no downtime.


 

Spoiler

2XhpJes.png

Ridding the world of evil, one Berzerker at a time.


#34
ARCH3TYP3

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......if you stand in hawken -> you ded. it is quite the same with incinirator self-stun.

This.
As usual, I agree with nepacaka.
He's a man who understands Hawken and who has forgotten more about the game than I will likely ever learn.
He gets it.
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"Finally, the white knight I deserve. [ARCHETYPE]" -  Amidatelion


#35
Amidatelion

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Had a chance to get some time in on it tonight, tragically cut short by a pounding headache and distinct frustration that there was never a case where I had enough team mates around to test this in what is its obvious "best case."

My points stand:
1) Immobility is unfun.
2) The Job punishes skilful play and will be ROUNDLY hated on PC. You think people whining about Scout OP was bad? Get ready for your single most vocal and influential group to rag on this thing 24/7.
3) Should still just be a goddamn EMP.
4) Needs further testing, but I think the ability keeps "charging" after death? Finally, an instance where the high-tier cabal can whine about something encouraging dying (if this is an actual thing)

Again that last one needs more testing, but I had the pleasure of throwing down with Ornual and some other decent players tonight, and I am 75% sure that he Immobilised me after I killed him.

Another thing: I was going to save this revelation for the review video, but I need to comment on it now: the Grenadier's Rev-GL now blows up on contact with anything, but the Jobs is the standard PC one-bounce. This follows a troubling trend that includes, AT LEAST, the 36B's P4P4s, which absolutely do not behave like normal P4P4s in terms of heat gen or damage. Guys, PLEASE relabel your modded weapons. We're super pleased that you overcame that coding hurdle, but for crying out loud please consider the design implications of your gameplay implementations - the Rev-GL and P4P4 are already two of the hardest weapons to use in the game and the XT designation is RIGHT THERE.

Edited by Amidatelion, 12 February 2017 - 07:14 PM.

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#36
nepacaka

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several scenarios about which i think.

  Worst case scenario

1) Jobs spent 3 sec to charge, and stand benind corner, trying to stun you while he being covered and saving his body from bullets. You hear EMP-blast, it is mean, Jobs stop moving. 
You use boost+dodge and dodging to him, he stun both, but you can shoot. easy frag.

2) the second scenario, but jobs have a friend. quite the same, better solution, you start shooting in jobs and killing him (because he is easy target, TTK is 3 second, so you have all the time to kill him if you start shooting when you get stun), jobs teammate kill you after than.
if you have B or C-class, with DPS i think, jobs die first, than you died. if you on A-class, you died anyway.

3) Jobs use shift+jump, push yourself in air and charging, he flying to enemy group, stun many enemies (if they not runaway while hearing EMP charging, lol xD), yes, maybe you stun all enemy, then all stunned enemies shoot TOW/GL in you. it is almost instant death. 2-3 TOW + some bullets damage when you have 575 HP, it is 2sec to die if you stand.
Maybe after that you team also kills some enemies, but you will be dead anyway.

4) Put the shield on the ground, and start charging EMP-blast. Maybe it help you charging ability before they kill you. Anyway, when you stun them, they destroy a shield and you dead.

5) it is also possible situation where enemy press shift+S, and just ruanway, if he has enough speed you just stun yourself, lel.


  if Jobs ability bashing enemies through wall/ceiling, i think most profitable scenario will be:

1) push yourself into Origin jumper, and start harging blast while air. When you falling on top of AA, you can stun enemies inside AA, and they can't shoot in you (due the ceiling between you and them). Obviously, it is a bugged mechanic if EMP-blast can bashing through walls.

2) standing behind AA silo construction (you know what i mean, this place on AA on origin (also prosk, bazaar etc), where many people repair their mechs. and use Blast on enemy who fighting inside. it is mean, you don't see enemies, and enemy don't see you. than your grenadier should do some things and spam grenades inside =)

3) central bridge on Wreckage (this place with stairwell, with 2 tiny walls), you can stand inside (or outside) and can stun enemies through very tiny wall. it is mean you can stun somebody and being in safe. than your teammates on AA kill it with fire.

4) Randomly stunned A-class can be dead probably in less than second. (trying to don't moving on scout, and see how fast you die if enemy see you :D)


anyway, imo, you can use it only througs walls or corners. any situation where enemy can see you, or dodging to see you in the last moment (around column, for example) lead to death. even if your team kill they, you still can be priority target due the you don't move.

The idea was good, but the realization is weird. Just right now it is looking like ability working if you use broken game mechanics and use it not like you should use. Any player who trying use it like "i just press F" will be momentary punished and dead by self-stun. i feel it is weird gameplay.
i recomended rename JOBS into "Punishment Machine" (you know what i mean if you play in Warhammer 40k xD)


If devs delete self-stun, ability probably can be "imba", if you Jumping to enemy and charging while air, when you blast 'em and you can find cover or start shoot in they and moving, it is not solution, and probably, even worse decision (if you want to get more whine). 

if replace stun with weapons/items disarm (and delete self-stun after EMP-blast), like standart EMP do, it is the only way to give the Jobs a chance not being suicidal. but it is also have some disadvantages. i mean in siege. if you disarm enemies, and yourself, and maybe you team can catch someone who will be disarmed, and you got some assist.
anyway, while being disarmed, enemies runaway from the AA point and obviously lost AA (and game). it is mean, give a Jobs compact EMP is also bad.

Maybe will be not bad idea give Jobs a "slowdown" ability. like say... about -20% from maximal speed.
OR
Whole changing ability.
Delete charging and self-stun, making ability instant, without animation. But highly decrease %. 
Jobs giving -10% all the speed (dodge, boost, walk) to every enemy in radius, and giving -10% for yourself on 8-10 second. <- imo, it is the best variant. less annoying for enemies (-10%, or even -20%, it is not the same like have a 0% speed), and making jobs not a suicidal mech. he just can use ability and everyone continue fight. And Rename ability into "Energy Anchor", or just "Slowdown"


Most interesting variant which came up in my Brain
Also, whole changing of Jobs ability (can be called "EMP blast", or "EMP shockwave" or "Interrupt shockwave")
Jobs cast ability immideately. reloading time maybe 40 second (maybe 30, maybe 50, idk)
Jobs creating a shockwave, this abilty turn off ANY items in wide range (maybe 35-40 m in radius). it is working on any item like a standart EMP, but not affected on mechs and not affected on Jobs.
Shocwave do:
- destroy any shields in radius (like standart EMP do)
- disable any MG- and R-turrets on 5-6 second (like standart EMP do)
- disable any scanner or jammer on 5-6 seconds (like standart EMP do)
- disable any blockades on 5-6 seconds
- ability not working on heat-bomb, HE grenade, Detonator, repair-orb and other things which EMP not affected.
- it is also can disable Enemies radar (mech-radar) on 5 sec, if it possible (and probably disable also Jobs radar, and his teammates, like completely chaos)
after 5-6 seconds all items (instead shields) turn-on and continue working like always.

it is mean, making a Jobs straight corelated with items. it is less anoying for everyone, and it is not making jobs as a "suicidal retardo".

for example,
- you stand on AA and see how people spam-shields. BLAM! they don't get shields (and your team too, honestly)
- you pursuit tech on Frontline in narrow corridor, tech throw blockade to safe, BLAM! you have a new door for youself.
- see bunch of turrets on top of AA, or got in trap where you got MG-turrets from one side, and enemy mechs from another? BLAM! kill the enemies, than kill the turrets. eazy peazy.

imo, turn Jobs into a mechs which can Control items - best variant, to got normal gameplay, to get rid stupid stun or any immobilize from game, and not getting annoying mech which can be hated anyway.


 


Edited by nepacaka, 13 February 2017 - 01:33 AM.

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Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#37
Sriracha_Sauce

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Would prefer a self EMP over stun.

Can't handle the sauce?


#38
Nilithium

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How is this relevant to the PC edition? Still waiting on that update...

#39
Sigil_

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What's happening on console now is, more or less, what the PC version will be like. C05 is asking for our input on something that will affect us down the line.


No melee. No lasers.


#40
Nilithium

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What's happening on console now is, more or less, what the PC version will be like. C05 is asking for our input on something that will affect us down the line.

Not to be cynical, but it's had Soon© taped to the front of the box for a while now.




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