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#1
Aregon

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So for a long while I have been curious about other people`s opinion about certain subjects that I myself deem controversial on this forum, as they may affect people, organizations in the community and can easily create flamewars, which while entertaining to a certain point, keeping it civilised a lot better for everyone in the long term.

But with this curiosity I also got curious what the community`s opinion is about talking about controversial topics is, should it be allowed under strict circumstances, or is it best kept in the dark away from the public part of the forum? 


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#2
PsychedelicGrass

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Everyone should be allowed to freely express whatever they want and there shouldn't be any forum rules in any way. This is the most 100% legit way to run a forum, trust me.


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#3
crockrocket

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Everyone should be allowed to freely express whatever they want and there shouldn't be any forum rules in any way. This is the most 100% legit way to run a forum, trust me.

I don't necessarily agree in %100 percent hands free moderation, however controversial topics should be able to be discussed without fear of repercussions. 


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#4
PsychedelicGrass

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only ban spammers and obvious trolls everything else will work itself out

 

 

and provide me with endless amusement because i have no life


Edited by PsychedelicGrass, 05 September 2015 - 02:48 AM.

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What's the big fuzzy bunnyng deal? Lots of amazing people have committed suicide, and they turned out alright.

 


#5
CrimsonKaim

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Everyone should be allowed to freely express whatever they want and there shouldn't be any forum rules in any way. This is the most 100% legit way to run a forum, trust me.

 

^this

 

Everything else would be a censorship.


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#6
Aregon

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^this

 

Everything else would be a censorship.

Pretty sure it was sarcasm.

 

However if you let a forum be completely free and open, you will get racism, homophobia, scolding of others, flamewars and just a f*cking mess. Rules are good, but you should be able to talk about controversial topics to a certain extent.


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#7
CrimsonKaim

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Pretty sure it was sarcasm.

 

However if you let a forum be completely free and open, you will get racism, homophobia, scolding of others, flamewars and just a f*cking mess. Rules are good, but you should be able to talk about controversial topics to a certain extent.

 

 

I once had a quote: "If you sacrifice freedom for safety, you sacrifice your soul for a lie."

 

Means as much as:

 

Freedom <-------------> Safety

 

 

If you have a high security level, you may have not a high freedom level. Trading freedom for safety is awlays good since safety is an illusion.

 

While I personally don't mind 'some' rules, everything that is not 100% forbidden or clearly disliked should be allowed. 

Generally, freedom over safety. Safety and security is for the weak (physically and mentally).


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#8
SparkyJJC

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I once had a quote: "If you sacrifice freedom for safety, you sacrifice your soul for a lie."

 

Means as much as:

 

Freedom <-------------> Safety

 

 

If you have a high security level, you may have not a high freedom level. Trading freedom for safety is awlays good since safety is an illusion.

 

While I personally don't mind 'some' rules, everything that is not 100% forbidden or clearly disliked should be allowed. 

Generally, freedom over safety. Safety and security is for the weak (physically and mentally).

 

I'm sorry but I'm not quite understanding you.

How on earth is safety a lie and/or an illusion? Just because there are not many means of being 100% completely untouchable does not mean that safety is, as such, a lie. It's like saying that because world peace is not achievable or unlikely to happen, peace is therefore a lie.

Safety is defined as "the condition of being protected from or unlikely to cause danger, risk, or injury" and not "you cannot be harmed through any means whatsoever"

 

If safety and security is for the weak, then ditch your home and live out on the streets.
This could be me misinterpreting what you've said, in which case, I implore you to elaborate because something isn't quite adding up.


Edited by SparkyJJC, 05 September 2015 - 07:40 AM.

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#9
kaiserschmarrn_

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MY PROFILE PIC KIDDOS

WHAT'S THE DEAL WITH THAT HUH?

HUH?



#10
CrimsonKaim

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I'm sorry but I'm not quite understanding you.

How on earth is safety a lie and/or an illusion? Just because there are not many means of being 100% completely untouchable does not mean that safety is, as such, a lie. It's like saying that because world peace is not achievable or unlikely to happen, peace is therefore a lie.

Safety is defined as "the condition of being protected from or unlikely to cause danger, risk, or injury" and not "you cannot be harmed through any means whatsoever"

 

If safety and security is for the weak, then ditch your home and live out on the streets.
This could be me misinterpreting what you've said, in which case, I implore you to elaborate because something isn't quite adding up.

 

 

The simple explaination would be "dig deeper".

 

The second explaination would be "be abit philosophical".

 

The explaination I would give is: Just because laws and rules exist, doesn't mean it can be avoided/prevented. Even war has rules, who is following  these rules if there would be one dominant threat in the world? Neither the threat nor the opposition would give a damn about these rules anymore. 

 

 

"The ones are safe who are careful in a safe area." 

 

 

Let's say it like this: If someone would like to point out racism stuff, he/she will find a way (depending on intelligence). If someone wants to harm someone else, there WILL be a way. 

 

Safety is an illusion since it jus tdecreases the chance of harming, not the origin of it.


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#11
Brother3J

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I have one rule when it comes to video games and controversy  No Religion or Politics.  Everything else as long as its not a flame war/racism  is fine 


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#12
ticklemyiguana

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The simple explaination would be "dig deeper".

The second explaination would be "be abit philosophical".

The explaination I would give is: Just because laws and rules exist, doesn't mean it can be avoided/prevented. Even war has rules, who is following these rules if there would be one dominant threat in the world? Neither the threat nor the opposition would give a damn about these rules anymore.


"The ones are safe who are careful in a safe area."


Let's say it like this: If someone would like to point out racism stuff, he/she will find a way (depending on intelligence). If someone wants to harm someone else, there WILL be a way.

Safety is an illusion since it jus tdecreases the chance of harming, not the origin of it.

I've actually made a lot of money pseudo anonymously selling this exact sort of drivel. The demographic is largely composed of teenagers. It works from the seller's perspective because people always want to believe life is simple and can be explained away with a spectrum or two. I'm good at writing this stuff because I used to believe it. I still believe shaping a culture in a manner that builds respect for life is a better long term goal than writing a lot of rules that you get forcibly punished for breaking, but the fact of the matter is you can have both safety and freedom - and safety isn't in any way an illusion. Seatbelts work. Creating free clinics that give out clean needles to drug addicts works. Safety is a very real thing, it's measurable, it's evidence based, and denying it is sort of like denying global warming.

Spoiler: there's a huge market for that sort of stuff, and I probably make the world a worse place by catering to it, but I also exploit third work labor practices importing cheaply made goods from China to sell for five to ten times what I payed for it. Guess what we don't have in the U.S. or regulated areas of Europe - near forced labor conditions and awful environmental impact (to that degree) on account of that level of economic freedom.

Freedom is the illusion. Freedom gives people the means to exploit others, and take away that very same freedom. Welcome to the real world. Keep buying my stuff.

Also on the rules page of things - off topic?


Edited by ticklemyiguana, 01 October 2015 - 03:57 PM.

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#13
CraftyDus

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I have one rule when it comes to video games and controversy  No Religion or Politics.  Everything else as long as its not a flame war/racism  is fine 

 

Those are the exact guidelines of conduct we used to observe, before Tiggs.


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#14
DieselCat

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I'm sorry but I'm not quite understanding you.

How on earth is safety a lie and/or an illusion? Just because there are not many means of being 100% completely untouchable does not mean that safety is, as such, a lie. It's like saying that because world peace is not achievable or unlikely to happen, peace is therefore a lie.

Safety is defined as "the condition of being protected from or unlikely to cause danger, risk, or injury" and not "you cannot be harmed through any means whatsoever"

 

If safety and security is for the weak, then ditch your home and live out on the streets.
This could be me misinterpreting what you've said, in which case, I implore you to elaborate because something isn't quite adding up.

 

 

I've actually made a lot of money pseudo anonymously selling this exact sort of drivel. The demographic is largely composed of teenagers. It works from the seller's perspective because people always want to believe life is simple and can be explained away with a spectrum or two. I'm good at writing this stuff because I used to believe it. I still believe shaping a culture in a manner that builds respect for life is a better long term goal than writing a lot of rules that you get forcibly punished for breaking, but the fact of the matter is you can have both safety and freedom - and safety isn't in any way an illusion. Seatbelts work. Creating free clinics that give out clean needles to drug addicts works. Safety is a very real thing, it's measurable, it's evidence based, and denying it is sort of like denying global warming.

Spoiler: there's a huge market for that sort of stuff, and I probably make the world a worse place by catering to it, but I also exploit third work labor practices importing cheaply made goods from China. Guess what we don't have in the U.S. or regulated areas of Europe - near forced labor conditions and awful environmental impact (to that degree) on account of that level of economic freedom.

Freedom is the illusion. Freedom gives people the means to exploit others, and take away that very same freedom. Welcome to the real world. Keep buying my stuff.

Also on the rule page of things - off topic?

 

Both these messages I approve.....sorry ran out of my quota of likes for today  :mad:

 

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#15
Aregon

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Now I think I can be a little more specific why I made this thread, there is a clan, not clans, clan that kinda grinds my gears and I like to look at as the child of another clan that pretty much killed the clan community, but for the fear of having Houruck to tell me to edit my post I haven`t been able to talk about it.


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#16
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insert popcorn eating gif here



#17
LadyTiggs

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Those are the exact guidelines of conduct we used to observe, before Tiggs.

 

The rules have changed slightly from the old forums,  I am pretty lenient with you guys. 


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#18
Elite_is_salty

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I am pretty lenient with you guys. 

 

LOL


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#19
DieselCat

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The rules have changed slightly from the old forums,  I am pretty lenient with you guys. 

 

+1


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#20
Aregon

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LOL

In comparison to other forums I think she mean. Just use common sense and not being an fuzzy bunny and you should do damn well.


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#21
Elite_is_salty

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In comparison to other forums I think she mean. Just use common sense and not being an fuzzy bunny and you should do damn well.

 

What's your problem with me?


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#22
crockrocket

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The rules have changed slightly from the old forums,  I am pretty lenient with you guys. 

I mean jeez, not wrong. Just what exactly are the new rules though 


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#23
Aregon

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What's your problem with me?

It`s more what you post.


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#24
Elite_is_salty

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 I'm astonished that a fellow member of such a prestige organization such as the TPG would act and say things in such a manner towards another member of this community. 

 

Oh look who's talking :p


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#25
Aregon

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Just know this fuzzy bunny; I have absolutely 0 respect to you or to what you say to me so don't try to give me advice. Get a life and try to do good there. If you think you're my parent then you're not. I'd kill you if you are. Just fuzzy bunny OFF.

Huh, I have just shown disagreement to what you have said and not towards you, and I can understand it`s annoyance with me disagreeing the way I do, but seriously.

 

Seriously.

 

You go as far to say you would kill me if I was your parent for coming with harsh criticism of your way of thought, which after what I myself think and had intention to, only be pointed towards your opinions and comments, and I try to keep personal opinions about the person I am commenting on away from the post, but you still come and say you would kill me if I was your parent for just saying my opinion. Not only must this break some forum rule, but you are also getting offended by some d!ck on the web who disagrees with you. This is also an amazing way to show of maturity on the web as someone else would just look away and ignore, an example being Tickle who ignored a new guy on the old forums when he started criticising TAW.

 

Edited for ad hominem. 


Edited by Sir Aregon, 06 September 2015 - 06:37 AM.

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#26
SparkyJJC

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Just know this fuzzy bunny; I have absolutely 0 respect to you or to what you say to me so don't try to give me advice. Get a life and try to do good there. If you think you're my parent then you're not. I'd kill you if you are. Just fuzzy bunny OFF.

 

That went from 0 to 100 a bit too quickly.
At any rate, that was pretty uncalled for.
Aregon wasn't insulting you directly so much as he was just disagreeing with what you were posting. No need to employ that kind of language.


Edited by SparkyJJC, 06 September 2015 - 06:43 AM.

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#27
Elite_is_salty

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No need to employ that kind of language.

welcome to the internet where all you say is fuzzy bunny -_-


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#28
CraftyDus

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I'm astonished that a fellow member of such a prestige organization such as the TPG would act and say things in such a manner
 

 

 

Thats like saying YOU represent hawken. Fortunately that's not true.

 

ANYBODY can join or make a team and play in TPG league. Even you.

 

You can still talk all the smack you want to, ss396.

 

Just keep it respectful during a league match and you're fine.


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#29
SparkyJJC

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welcome to the internet where all you say is fuzzy bunny -_-

 

Sorry, but "this is the internet" isn't an excuse to act like a fuzzy bunny, especially not here, because it's just as easy to act kindly as it is to act harshly. Be nice.


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#30
Nept

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Yeah, that was a bit much, Elite.  "Internet persona" goes only so far.


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#31
reVelske

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I think most members of this forum are actually mature enough to debate/discuss controversial topics without devolving them into poopflinging contests. Though, it takes one small rat poop to ruin a pot of soup (however that idiom goes), so... yeah, dunno.


Edited by reVelske, 06 September 2015 - 08:54 AM.


#32
Elite_is_salty

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Be nice.

ok mom


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#33
Pure_Amazing

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welcome to the internet where all you say is fuzzy bunny -_-

 

Nice to see a community you have been a part of for a fairly long time is considered just everyday "the internet" to you.

 

Top notch respect for everyone at play here...

 

Edit: I love the way a topic about controversial topics itself has become controversial.


Edited by Pure_Amazing, 06 September 2015 - 09:02 AM.

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#34
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Just know this fuzzy bunny; I have absolutely 0 respect to you or to what you say to me so don't try to give me advice. Get a life and try to do good there. If you think you're my parent then you're not. I'd kill you if you are. Just fuzzy bunny OFF.

 

Huh, how puerile.



#35
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I was gonna say something about the water and the increase of micro-aggressions on the forums this weekend... but then I realized this was the "controversial topics" thread.

So, carry on?

#36
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#37
ATX22

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So for a long while I have been curious about other people`s opinion about certain subjects that I myself deem controversial on this forum, as they may affect people, organizations in the community and can easily create flamewars, which while entertaining to a certain point, keeping it civilised a lot better for everyone in the long term.

But with this curiosity I also got curious what the community`s opinion is about talking about controversial topics is, should it be allowed under strict circumstances, or is it best kept in the dark away from the public part of the forum? 

 

On the official forums for Hawken?  Probably not a good idea.  When you get people flaming each other with controversial topics you force the administrators here to start hitting people with the ban-hammer / post edits to enforce their rules or risk appearing to not fairly enforce their own rules.  Just one big can of worms that is best left alone.



#38
Amidatelion

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I'm going to surprise absolutely no one by saying I'm perfectly alright with heavy moderation of discussion, so long as that moderation scrupulously follows publicly available policies and procedures and is accompanied by clear communication of the logic and reasoning applied on a case by case basis.
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#39
thirtysix

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Every thread on this forum is a flame war... WHY?

Gentlepersons, IDK about you, but I believe it's time to throw the guantlet down, issue a challenge, and fight it out on the field of battle.

Have an enemy? Just don't like someone? Wanna kick your friends ass?

There used to be "Fight Club", let's bring it back!


Edited by thirtysix, 06 September 2015 - 06:13 PM.

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#40
6ixxer

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I don't know why anyone could think that an un-moderated Hawken forum would be a good thing for the community.

 

Some 'free speech' can reach the heights of epic douchebaggery and seriously damage the image of Hawken when really only reflecting the thoughts of a very small vocal & short-sighted group.

 

If it is a valid gripe, then it can be made without resorting to such flame wars.

 

Moderate away o' mighty moderators.

 

Cheers,

6ixxer


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