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Bringing the before steam customization system back

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#1
sMellfirez

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Okay so like many of old Hawken players, I loved the customization system that came with your pilot level. What it does was we gain like on point of customization every level and those points could be use to get more health for your mech more fuel, higher flying height or even mor speed and this was great For anyone who like better gameplay because level really meant something. Being level 1 or 30 doesn't change a thing.

Also mech levels also gave small bonuses like less heat generation but there was a price on these upgrades like 1000HC to 3500HC . It was all small tweak that made this game one that I wanted to play. On steam I got like 60 hours but, I have 2 accounts and I have more than 200 hours with them.

 

I would like to see that levels have a bigger impact and see this game reviving back from the dead. Because there is not many new players. Most of them quit playing right after trying it because they get destroyed by high level players. You should really make like beginner server for people up to level 10 this way we could see more people in the game. The customization system will even help to stay because they will have a goal. 



#2
IareDave

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I would like to see that levels have a bigger impact and see this game reviving back from the dead. Because there is not many new players. Most of them quit playing right after trying it because they get destroyed by high level players. You should really make like beginner server for people up to level 10 this way we could see more people in the game. The customization system will even help to stay because they will have a goal. 

No, the customization will make the destruction of noobs even easier than it already is. Competetive-skill based shooters have no need for vertical progression. Sure, the internals do offer a lot of benefits, but besides the Orblord the internals don't make a big enough difference as say +100 armor and +5m/s boost speed would with the old tuning points model. 


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#3
Silverfire

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I don't like this because vertical progression. I like levels representing only time played and not power because it gives an equal chance to lower level players against higher level players. Vert progression is not a good thing at all.

Also because the tuning system was broken and didn't give any real customization. Many players all used the same buiid so there really wasn't much choice at all unless you wanted to be ineffective.

Edited by Silverfire, 14 May 2015 - 09:18 AM.

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#4
M4st0d0n

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You see, layout of the internals system is horizontal now. That's why it's an horizontal progreshun. Of course you unlock with levels, and currency and stuff, and there's no downside to equip so that's direct upgrade. But it's an horizontal progreshun. So that's fair.



#5
CrimsonKaim

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No, the customization will make the destruction of noobs even easier than it already is. Competetive-skill based shooters have no need for vertical progression. Sure, the internals do offer a lot of benefits, but besides the Orblord the internals don't make a big enough difference as say +100 armor and +5m/s boost speed would with the old tuning points model. 

 

But instead, how about tardeoff tuning system? Like adding armor actually slows you down and addign speed decreases your overall armor. How about that?


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#6
IareDave

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But instead, how about tardeoff tuning system? Like adding armor actually slows you down and addign speed decreases your overall armor. How about that?

It would depend on how well the tuning system is balanced to prevent there being only one good build. The previous devs did a poor job of balancing that and many other things and I don't think the game really needs the system back. 

 

You see, layout of the internals system is horizontal now. That's why it's an horizontal progreshun. Of course you unlock with levels, and currency and stuff, and there's no downside to equip so that's direct upgrade. But it's an horizontal progreshun. So that's fair.

You're comparing apples to oranges. I don't know who you are or how long you have played but the benefits of a maxed tune mech vs unmaxed far outweigh the benefits of a fully internalized mech vs none (excluding orblord, as stated). Everyone just stacked armor, boost speed, and whatever random perk they wanted. Most internals actually require a condition to be met, such as a kill or an assist to even take effect. 


Edited by IareDave, 14 May 2015 - 10:13 AM.


#7
Miscellaneous

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Pretty much what Silverfire said - it was unbalanced and there was an optimal build for everything. If it was reworked to be more balanced and fair, sure, but it would require quite a lot of thought and community input.

 


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Edited by (KDR) Miscellaneous, 14 May 2015 - 10:18 AM.

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#8
nokari

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We've discussed this topic to death many times. The old system was not a good one because it provided vertical progression and everyone was trying to pick the "best" combination, which left all other optimization builds useless. An optimization tree is fine, but only if it's linear progression with tradeoffs. But that's hard to do.


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#9
Amidatelion

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No.
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#10
CraftyDus

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Tuning point system made for a loud chorus of balance complaints because some players didn't have the faculties to optimize.

Wasn't really that unbalanced, but the ubiquity of poor tuning decisions made it seem that way.

You got your last 5 at all at once on level 30, huge disparity if you played mostly with 30's during your late 20's.

You could tune up a nasty cqc sharpie. rip in pepperonis tuning points.


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#11
AsianJoyKiller

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Okay so like many of old Hawken players, I loved the customization system that came with your pilot level.

Most old players I know hate that system because they know how problematic it was for balance.

 

Please, name some of these old players for us.


Edited by AsianJoyKiller, 14 May 2015 - 12:22 PM.

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#12
Invader_guy

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We DON'T need the old system back, right now internals are a good thing, however I feel like the options for customization feel very limited, instead of bringing back the old system we should have a lot of brand new internals.



#13
Broham78

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Tuning points were awesome.

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#14
BaronSaturday

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How come every time this comes up, I'm the only one that suggest lateral progression unique to each mech. Take a bunch of the top guys, put them in a test server and test it until you don't even have to spend points for it to be balanced. Yes it would take a while, no it wouldn't be a lot of work for Reloaded because all they'd have to do is look at the data and tweak numbers.

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#15
Amidatelion

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Yes it would take a while, no it wouldn't be a lot of work for Reloaded because all they'd have to do is look at the data and tweak numbers.


And who would implement the lateral progression? How would you separate it from the current Storm server set-up that links all mechs with accounts, items and internals? The latest kerfuffle with the Reinforced Armour internal shows that you really do need a separate system for trial roll-outs. How would you prevent lateral progression mechs from entering a public game? Who would code the separate system required to do this?

And finally, who are you going to pay to go over thousands of hours of data in statistical analysis because it sure as hell isn't simply a case of "just look at data and tweak numbers."
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#16
Nightfirebolt

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The old stat building system was crap. There's a reason it was removed. Only a few builds were viable; notably, ones that stacked movement speed, allowing people to run circles around slower, lower-level mechs.

 

It also made the game inhospitable to new players, which is exactly what we want to avoid.


Edited by Nightfirebolt, 14 May 2015 - 05:19 PM.


#17
BaronSaturday

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And who would implement the lateral progression? How would you separate it from the current Storm server set-up that links all mechs with accounts, items and internals? The latest kerfuffle with the Reinforced Armour internal shows that you really do need a separate system for trial roll-outs. How would you prevent lateral progression mechs from entering a public game? Who would code the separate system required to do this?

And finally, who are you going to pay to go over thousands of hours of data in statistical analysis because it sure as hell isn't simply a case of "just look at data and tweak numbers."

Why wouldn't laterally progressed mechs be allowed in pubs?  What does Storm have anything to do with implimenting this system.  A similar iteration was added and then removed as noted by the topic of this thread.  And it wouldn't be thousands of hours.  It would be looking at the players usage of items within the Test server which would be an entirely seprate instance of HAWKEN from the rest of the client.  It wouldn't even need to be rebuilt.  Just cloned, add the new features, test the new features, "fix" the new features, test the "fixes, repeat last two until end goal is sufficiently met, release to client.


Edited by BaronSaturday, 14 May 2015 - 05:11 PM.

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#18
SwompKreetcher

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No.

>>--^

What he said.

 

edit: it seemed to me, that when this was implemented back-to-back with the Ascension debacle, literally hundreds (thousands?) of Hawken players left the game. Permanently.

let's let this dog lie.


Edited by SwompKreetcher, 14 May 2015 - 05:56 PM.

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#19
M4st0d0n

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Listen steamspawns. I dont care, I've got far too much UXP and HC. But for the records... No one stacked armor with the old tree. Old meta was about optimization points. Not balanced, but free re-rolls. And the few internals were sidegrades. Now, there's no update. But the system in place is perfect for maintaining more grind or milking with meta tweaks. So I'm comparing vertical with vertical. A lot of vets are biased with the pre-Assenshun build. I sure dont miss fuzzy bunnyng invisishields. Everyone knows that's quite two different games we're talking about. I'll leave it to you to judge if orblord, airzerk or failsafe are better than the old tree, but I can objectively say it's still not horizontal.






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