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#1
Scroticus42

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Put simply........too many machs use TOW rockets combined with some boring combination of machine guns.  Theres negligible difference between the Assault, the CR-T, and Berserker.  The Bruiser and Brawler are only halfway different.  I propose that every mech have access to a completely unique primary AND secondary weapon.  Failing that, open it up a little bit so all the weapons can be piled together and combined any way people want as long as they buy them with HC.  When it comes down to it theres not enough toys to play with.  Burst fire rifles?  Cannonball type things?  Melee weapons?  I dunno, I think the game needs to give in and adopt lasers/plasma/more high tech stuff.  I'm not saying copy everything from Mechwarrior, I'm just saying there needs to be more weapon variety both in general but specifically between mechs and especially when it comes to secondary weapons.

 

Next: hitboxes.  Again, no reason to go full MWO but I think at the least there needs to be hitboxes for legs and arms at least. 

 

Along with that:  TTK.  Look I get it HAWKEN isn't supposed to be full mech sim, but to be honest, thats kind of what people who play mech games want whether you like it or not.  The whole idea to try and siphon off TF2 players is never going to work because TF2 already exists and those players aren't looking to go anywhere.  So please make mechs actually feel like mechs so they don't disintegrate in 4 seconds of actual combat.  Right now they might as well be "mechsuits" or like the things in the third matrix movie.  One alpha strike and you're dead pretty much.

 



#2
kaiserschmarrn_

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The Bruiser and Brawler are only halfway different.

...

 

The whole idea to try and siphon off TF2 players is never going to work because TF2 already exists and those players aren't looking to go anywhere.  So please make mechs actually feel like mechs so they don't disintegrate in 4 seconds of actual combat.  Right now they might as well be "mechsuits" or like the things in the third matrix movie.  One alpha strike and you're dead pretty much.

This was never the plan

 

Put simply........too many machs use TOW rockets combined with some boring combination of machine guns.  Theres negligible difference between the Assault, the CR-T, and Berserker.  The Bruiser and Brawler are only halfway different.  I propose that every mech have access to a completely unique primary AND secondary weapon.  Failing that, open it up a little bit so all the weapons can be piled together and combined any way people want as long as they buy them with HC. 

I prefer balance to exist

 

 

Next: hitboxes.  Again, no reason to go full MWO but I think at the least there needs to be hitboxes for legs and arms at least. 

There are, although they are a bit annoying, as shots between the legs or between the legs and torso count as hits

 

 

When it comes down to it theres not enough toys to play with.  Burst fire rifles?  Cannonball type things?  Melee weapons? 

When the devs exist, be patient

 

 

Put simply........too many machs use TOW rockets combined with some boring combination of machine guns.  Theres negligible difference between the Assault, the CR-T, and Berserker.

WOW! You figured it out! Want a sticker?


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#3
Hyginos

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There's negligible difference between the Assault, the CR-T, and Berserker.

 

The salt and CRT being so similar is actually something that the previous devs acknowledged as a corner they painted themselves in to. As I recall is was something that was being discussed before the Silence, but never got fixed before ADH died.

 

The interchangeable secondary was something that was actually done in the early alpha, but people just found an optimal setup and ran with it, killing variety.

 

Melee weapons?

 

Drink.


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MFW Howken

 

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#4
GreyFa1con

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Overall, crappy post.

TF2 players are absolutely up for grabs.

But interesting strategy about any new Mechs being based around different secondaries.

Just curious what physics this new secondary would have, if it's not a straight shot, a lob shot, or a locking shot.
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#5
AxionOperandi

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Assault and CRT are pretty much the same, thats why the Assault is the starter mech now, Beserker however plays quite differently, the only similarity is the weapons it carries. Bruiser and Brawler are completely different so I assume you mean something else.

I'm not opposed to energy based weapons as long as they fit within Hawken's design language but a lot of people hate the idea. In my opinion on the matter for them to exist they can't just be laser or plasma version of the kinetic weapons we have now. They would have to behave differently and have some kind of trade off as to why every gun wouldn't just be a high-tech laser plasma or whatever as obviously they would have huge advantages of being lighting and not needing to carry any ammo.

#6
Pleasure_Mortar

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I play mech games. Lots of them.

I enjoy Hawken the way it is. I don't need seperate hit boxes and I really enjoy the fast paced gameplay and the time to kill.

 

I'm a diehard MW4 fan but I don't want Hawken to immitate the Mechwarrior feeling, or any other slow mech game.



#7
Scroticus42

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Well thanks for the usual level of internet snark.  Really that one claiming I want a sticker for "figuring it out", I mean really......apparently you are so dense that I have to spell out that my point is its been like that for what 2-3 years?  And the fix for it could take what, like ONE measley workday?  I noticed it before you ever created an account in all likelihood, the fact it hasn't changed is my gripe.  Open up the arsenal and make it interchangeable if you don't feel like making anything new.  Maybe I want my berserker to use seeker rockets and an EOC repeater?  Maybe I want my Bruiser to use a Flak Cannon and Hellfires?   My point was that for me at least, I have no desire to work on my Berserker because its the same thing as an assault, just faster and gets punched through in 3 seconds instead of 4.  The bottom line is limiting mechs to three primaries and one secondary is very limiting and not very fun.  It isn't my problem that min/max meta scumbags do what they do I don't care about them, they will always exist no matter what you change so why even bother to cater to them?  They will adapt or leave and the world will keep on spinning.  Make the game fun and have variety.  I don't need a third of the mechs in the game to all have the same exact loadout, its boring.  Theres a decent number of mechs to choose from, but only two thirds of that number are different enough from each other to be worth trying.  Even if the quirks ar different a lot of people at least want the appearance of something different to fool the psyche into thinking its different.  The appearance of variety is often enough.

 

Balance you say?  Since when has this game ever been balanced?  I'm not new, burst fire alpha strikes alwas have and always will ruin everything.  Any time that is an option in a competitive game it will always be the best choice in any game where it is a choice.  So get ready to take a few shots then because one of the reasons I quit playing is the burst fire alpha strike scouts.  It got really really really really really old.  I see they still do thier thing today, though not quite as dominant.  Let other chassis have access to the meta instead of just useless point Vulcan guns and boring assault rifles.  The other option would be to eliminate damage dealing items to get rid of the alpha strike meta.  Either that or make them cause a significant heat spike.

 

TF2 players up for grabs?  The 56,000 players in game right now at a non-peak time says otherwise.  If they aren't playing that they're playing CS:GO.  And saying "that never was the plan"......well we may just have to agree to disagree, I was here when it was pretty much acknowledged the goal of the game was to turn it into an e-sport and the inclusion of the game-breaking technician pretty much backhandedly gave it away what the REAL plan was: TF2 with mechs.  Its pretty intuitively obvious and I see zero evidence to the contrary.

 

I also wasn't advocating making HAWKEN feel more like MWO, I'm just advocating a lengthening of TTK through just giving everything more armor and possibly eliminating damage dealing items.  The movement and speed and strafing and jumping need to be the same, just make it so I can actually fight for more than a few seconds before dying.  Why the hell would anyone bother designing and building something so fragile?  Seems like from a lore pperspective it would be a waste of precious resources and manpower, I sure as hell wouldn't drive one of these things knowing I'd be dead in about 5 seconds, maybe 25 if theres a technician around.

 

Anyway, flame on.  Believe me or don't, I don't really care.  But its not hard to pinpoint some reason why other games are more successful and you can either implement some of those things to survive and compete or fail for lack of a completely unique vision and implementation.  HAWKEN is different, but its not THAT different.  I've talked to a lot of random people that love mech games but don't play them because none of them get it fully right.  They WANT to tinker like in armored core, but want faster ground combat like HAWKEN and a developer thats not the people who make Dark Souls to make it so its not all obtuse and unexplained.  They WANT good aerial combat too like armored core or even Zone of the Enders, but with some sim-like limitations.  They want high tech equipment, they want melee, they want customizable hardpoint layouts to choose WHERE to put the weapons even if they are the same choices for everyone.  And yea, they want energy weapons.

 

Sorry for the long post, I'd give you a tl;dr version but I refuse to cater to that cancerous internet culture fuzzy bunny.  Also I apparently can't post more than once per day even though I've previously made several hundred.  GTFO with that fuzzy bunny.  I'm not a spammer.



#8
Hyginos

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-unjustified vitriol-

 

Oh boy. Where do I even start. Maybe I'll type up a full response later, but for now I'd just like to clarify that the reason you get a sarcastic response is that many of the players on this forum have been playing and discussing these exact things on this exact patch for years. Its a bit tiresome when someone with 10 hours in to the game shows up and acts like he's hit on something brand new, like he has every thing totally figured out, like he speaks for a larger community, then complains that the responses are critical, especially when it happens once or twice a month. 

 

 

The community is really honestly very accepting, and we'd love you to stick around, its just infuriating that we seem to be in some kind of time loop with these discussions.


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#9
Pleasure_Mortar

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zPOhutc.png


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#10
GreyFa1con

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Make it so every Mech can equip everything, and that will make "variety"


No it won't.

It will make about 2 or 3 top tier choices, and the rest will be uncompetitive garbage.

"Competitive Variety" is far more valuable than raw variety.

It's the mark of truly good game designers.

http://www.gamedev.n...y-balance-r1765

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#11
GreyFa1con

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Balance you say? Since when has this game ever been balanced? I'm not new, burst fire alpha strikes alwas have and always will ruin everything. Any time that is an option in a competitive game it will always be the best choice in any game where it is a choice. So get ready to take a few shots then because one of the reasons I quit playing is the burst fire alpha strike scouts. It got really really really really really old. I see they still do thier thing today, though not quite as dominant. Let other chassis have access to the meta instead of just useless point Vulcan guns and boring assault rifles. The other option would be to eliminate damage dealing items to get rid of the alpha strike meta. Either that or make them cause a significant heat spike.

I'm not a spammer.


Srsly dude?

Missile Mechs, Rev-GL Grenadier, Reaper

http://hawken.heroku...ser/Scroticus42

Seems like you like long range spamming, with minimal exposure, and get buthurt when you get rushed down.

http://www.sirlin.ne...ducingthe-scrub
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http://hawken.heroku...user/GreyFa1con

 


#12
Pleasure_Mortar

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Excellent read. Thanks for sharing.



#13
StubbornPuppet

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I concur, this is a very legitimate read and a point I've believed in for a long time.  If you aren't doing what you know will help you win, you're not playing to win.  (cheating excluded, of course)


To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#14
GreyFa1con

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I concur, this is a very legitimate read and a point I've believed in for a long time. If you aren't doing what you know will help you win, you're not playing to win. (cheating excluded, of course)


Ironically though, I still think scanners are cheap sh*t.

Everything else is fine though.

TRIBES: Developed a server mod with 40 servers, 20 clans, and competitive league play.

PLANETSIDE: Got about 30 suggested changes implemented, and 40,000 game downloads via a 1Mb mini-installer I developed.

http://hawken.heroku...user/GreyFa1con

 


#15
StubbornPuppet

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Ironically though, I still think scanners are cheap sh*t.

Everything else is fine though.

 

Though I don't disagree with you in theory, they have never bothered me because I always assume that the enemy already knows exactly where I am anyhow.  For me, to assume that I am undetected, even for a moment, is a judgement error.  Sure, I do 'try' to move silently and poise for surprise strikes when appropriate, but I never go with the assumption that it's actually working - I stay on high alert and presume that there is a Predator looking at me and/or a scanner running... even that there is likely a cheater on the other team with a wall-hack or radar hack engaged.


To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#16
maxajcd

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i know that this thread has come up 10000 times but would a gl assault work? i dont see why not?


I do appreciate the art, but I don't have time to find anything good. /h/


#17
nepacaka

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too many machs use TOW rockets

 

i can explain why. obviously devs planned more mech than we have, and new mech don't have a tow as a secondary. so, when we have 30 mech (for example),  tow not be very often weapon. the same with vulcan-d. on closed beta3 only several mech have vulcan-d - bruiser and gren. brawler, assault, berserk don't have it. when game start in 12.12.12, they added third weapon for all mech. some mech recieved unique weapon, but many other mech get a vulcan-d.


Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/





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