While this topic has been suggested many times,i feel that reloaded should do something about it sooner or later..We should feel again that we are in huge mechs,thats the only thing i miss from old days..Size do matters..Though what can be changed without hearting fps in maps?Thats a bump..
Mech size vs the world..
#1
Posted 23 September 2015 - 03:52 AM
#2
Posted 23 September 2015 - 10:39 AM
current problem in hawken - trucks, which. we have on origin/uptown/bazaar. people just not fit in these trucks :D
bigger pre-ascension cars was better. you can find one old car into the "library" on Uptown, and compare it size with new trucks, for example.
also, more town-maps!
Edited by nepacaka, 23 September 2015 - 10:40 AM.
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#3
Posted 23 September 2015 - 12:15 PM
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#4
Posted 23 September 2015 - 12:31 PM
Honestly, the maps should have never been made to look like they were supposed to be some sort of "city" or "base" or "town" at all... at least not the way they are. There isn't anything about them that makes any sense in that context - like what on earth is the structure supporting the AA supposed to be anyhow? And what is with these weird ramps that are the perfect size for the mechs... but nothing else? There is practically nothing on the maps that would make any sense at all to a person the size the pilots are supposed to be. The maps only make sense as a playground for mechs to fight in - which works for the gameplay, but looks pretty stupid when you take a moment to pause, look around and think about it.
If new maps are made, I'd rather they just look like a battleground for mechs... and nothing else.
To be serious for a moment this is just a joke
#5
Posted 23 September 2015 - 12:43 PM
I'd like to have maps specifically designed for the game mode that they'll be used for. For example, near 100% symmetry for siege and MA maps and a more chaotic layout for TDM and DM maps. Then on to the map size and scaling, which are both still very important. The current scaling of various map assets down to not even muffling the weapon and explosion sounds so that it at least sounds like you're in a mech kind of hurt the Hawken atmosphere... though that's also very subjective.
#6
Posted 23 September 2015 - 01:11 PM
i do notice the graphics settings play a big role in this, when i turn them up for giggles the distance haze and shadows add a lot of that sense of a big mech, though i think the sounds also play a big role because as of the current patch few of the sounds, like walking or sliding along a wall, have the "weight" they should. Hopefully sounds would be easier to implement than map redesigns and such.
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#7
Posted 23 September 2015 - 03:21 PM
Imho every A and most of B class mechs looks like drones piloted remotely via vr-like stuff (virtual cocpits to add feeling of being in the battlefield). At least that's what I'm telling myself when I'm looking at them. No idea how living thing could fit in Raider, Scout, Assault and so on.
But! I have no problem with this. Look at the modern battlefields (real ones) - human-piloted machines are supported by drones and robots. The trend is to reduce soldier death ratio, because human life is more precious than machine. Now come back to Hawken, set in far future - it is only logic to have more drones on the field than "classic mecha" units.
About scaling - I know that giant robots are cool, but in reality something like this wouldn't be really useful. I think that Hawken mech's proportions are just right (well, almost) - not too small to be run over by a tank, not too big to fight gravity forces more than enemies (ok, Illal's gravity is probably less than Earth's). Also there are other games with really big robots to fullfil that fantasy.
My point of view. :)
Edited by kvazarsky, 23 September 2015 - 03:23 PM.
#8
Posted 23 September 2015 - 04:09 PM
I personally like seeing the mechs scaled to about 2-4 stories high. The Maps need to be more bigger in size to make you actually feel like you're in a city type setting for some maps. While your at it make the building skyscraper sized and increase the width of the roads to give you a better environmental feel of your mech as oppose to the current in-game narrow roads. Increasing everything in size while adjusting the props(light poles, trucks, etc) will give the individual a better perspective on the environment while adding obstacles to make fighting more dynamic. If you want an idea for what I'm talking about, look at Bf4's city's and Armored Core: Verdict Day for a general sense of scale for what I'm talking about. The mechs shouldn't feel stupid big like Gundam and shouldn't be less than 2 stories like Blacklight: Retribution, since the mechs aren't human sized. As seen below Bl:R. Inless the new devs want to take it to that level, which wouldn't be a good idea.
Armored Core's mech sizes are in the scale of about 2-4 stories as I was talking about, see below. Ignore the audio, just see the scale of the mech compared to the environment.
It seems to me the devs where trying to go for the level of 2-4 stories but never got around to fixing the environment to feel the same way. As seen below, the mech is scaled to 2-4 stories but the environment is narrow so you feel like your squished in. By increasing the width of the roads and the size of the building, this city would look more like a city. While you're at it, remove the jump pads and make them road ramps to fit in with the environment. Since a giant jump pad doesn't make any sense being in a city environment. Turn the open arch ways where the jump pad are into tunnels to fit with the road ramps. The mech size is fine, they just need to increase the scale of the enviroment and remove some things that doesn't make any sense. The giant AA missile in a city is fine but they need to change how it's designed overall. You shouldn't be walking under an AA missile launcher, that's just simple logic. For those wonder why their is an AA there you should know that we are at war, so the environment should reflect it more. Make the environment more gridy and atmosphere more dusty to make it feel more war like. While your at it scale down the star above to the afternoon to make the area look more depressing. Add big clouds and possibly ash as well to give you the feel of a toxic Illal (Hawken planet) environment. The Hawken planet is at war so lets make it feel more like it. As seen below it's a sunny happy day on Illal with mechs roaming a city.



I'll give one last example of what I'm talking about when it comes to the environment as seen below, then I'm done with my wall of text.
The reason I always fall back to Armored Core is because just like Hawken, the planet is at war and it should reflect it more. Armored Core does it well so I can use the series as good example to get my point across for what I'm talking about. Look at the environment below, cloud cover and what not.
Devs please listen and learn.
Edited by Onstrava, 23 September 2015 - 04:21 PM.
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#9
Posted 25 September 2015 - 07:34 AM
I've thought about this since I first started playing. The size of the people in the garage in comparison to the mechs and then the size of everything else when you go out and fight just don't match.
Two completely different scales.
An easy way to fix this is to just make the people in the garage smaller. You wouldn't have to change any maps that way.
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#10
Posted 25 September 2015 - 02:45 PM
I've thought about this since I first started playing. The size of the people in the garage in comparison to the mechs and then the size of everything else when you go out and fight just don't match.
Two completely different scales.
An easy way to fix this is to just make the people in the garage smaller. You wouldn't have to change any maps that way.
You'd need to change the scale of the railing, stairs, and all the little greebles sitting around too.
...
For those wonder why their is an AA there you should know that we are at war, so the environment should reflect it more. Make the environment more gridy and atmosphere more dusty to make it feel more war like. While your at it scale down the star above to the afternoon to make the area look more depressing. Add big clouds and possibly ash as well to give you the feel of a toxic Illal (Hawken planet) environment. The Hawken planet is at war so lets make it feel more like it. As seen below it's a sunny happy day on Illal with mechs roaming a city.
---
The existance of AA in town in Hawken hasn't really been a sticking point for me.. it's been that the two super important corporate offices of the two largest and most "evil corporations" on the planet in the Hawken universe that are sitting just a stone's throw away from each other. ALl while some unnamed entity went to the trouble of erecting a single SAM emplacement... or 3 rigged to target a ground target depending on the game mode your playing. Placed smack dab in-between these two very important buildings. Emplacements that respond to who parks the most mechs near it. That isn't war, that's squabbling over the good parking spaces under the shade of the AA tower to get the shorter walk to the office and avoid having the sun bleach out the shiny new coat of rust paint on your mech.
#11
Posted 25 September 2015 - 09:44 PM
About scaling - I know that giant robots are cool, but in reality something like this wouldn't be really useful. I think that Hawken mech's proportions are just right (well, almost) - not too small to be run over by a tank, not too big to fight gravity forces more than enemies (ok, Illal's gravity is probably less than Earth's). Also there are other games with really big robots to fullfil that fantasy.
They are big enough as they are,they are not look that way in some maps,thats at least my problem,as nepa mentioned back then we had different vehicles laying around the map than those we have now,if i am not mistaken they changed it to maximize fps?
#12
Posted 26 September 2015 - 02:52 AM
You'd need to change the scale of the railing, stairs, and all the little greebles sitting around too.
The existance of AA in town in Hawken hasn't really been a sticking point for me.. it's been that the two super important corporate offices of the two largest and most "evil corporations" on the planet in the Hawken universe that are sitting just a stone's throw away from each other. ALl while some unnamed entity went to the trouble of erecting a single SAM emplacement... or 3 rigged to target a ground target depending on the game mode your playing. Placed smack dab in-between these two very important buildings. Emplacements that respond to who parks the most mechs near it. That isn't war, that's squabbling over the good parking spaces under the shade of the AA tower to get the shorter walk to the office and avoid having the sun bleach out the shiny new coat of rust paint on your mech.
'They are big enough as they are,they are not look that way in some maps,thats at least my problem,as nepa mentioned back then we had different vehicles laying around the map than those we have now,if i am not mistaken they changed it to maximize fps?'
I agree about what you said with concern about the stuff in the garage, it would have to change too.
The bit about the front Line map though is inaccurate. The two corporations are not that close. Front Line is just the part where the two mega cities meet each other. The corporate headquarters are hundreds, if not thousands of mile away from each other. These cities are vast, taking up the size of an entire country.
A lot has happened in development since the live action trailer was conceived, that was made years ago.
None of the Axe's have glass cockpits for one thing. I think they envisioned a slightly different game back then, but the realities of game development meant that things had to change. Things always change.
Edited by SandSpider2, 26 September 2015 - 02:59 AM.
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#13
Posted 26 September 2015 - 12:28 PM
I agree about what you said with concern about the stuff in the garage, it would have to change too.
The bit about the front Line map though is inaccurate. The two corporations are not that close. Front Line is just the part where the two mega cities meet each other. The corporate headquarters are hundreds, if not thousands of mile away from each other. These cities are vast, taking up the size of an entire country.
A lot has happened in development since the live action trailer was conceived, that was made years ago.
None of the Axe's have glass cockpits for one thing. I think they envisioned a slightly different game back then, but the realities of game development meant that things had to change. Things always change.
Well...
The bit about the front Line map though is inaccurate. The two corporations are not that close. Front Line is just the part where the two mega cities meet each other. The corporate headquarters are hundreds, if not thousands of mile away from each other. These cities are vast, taking up the size of an entire country.
The distance if you're driving, from New York, NY to California is just shy of 3,000 miles. These structures are NOT thousands of miles apart. Illal is also not a planet without an atmosphere, nor is it flat. At these distances the horizon is going to come into play eventually, as well as atmospheric conditions that reduce visibility... like say air or pollution. Even hundreds of miles apart, you're talking roughly the width of California there.
You'd have to be at stupid high elevations with these towers being equally stupid tall to be able to see them from thousands of miles away, or even hundreds of miles away.
If I were to guess, well, I AM guessing here, they're more like 10 or 20 miles apart at best. Give or take 10 miles.
Edited by ATX22, 26 September 2015 - 12:29 PM.
#14
Posted 26 September 2015 - 05:40 PM
Screen shots, I want to see screen shots of the buildings that you speak of.
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#15
Posted 26 September 2015 - 06:22 PM
Screen shots, I want to see screen shots of the buildings that you speak of.
Perhaps buildings or structures would help as far as what I call them, but the two floating diving boards tethered to the ground based battle cruiser launcher. The huge building that coughs up explosions and then does nothing when you lose... or win, as they're both identical looking. Are we talking about the same thing?
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