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#1
coldform

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There seems to be a fair bit of discussion concerning the presence of "OP" mechs. Now, I may be wrong, but where is the discussion about filling the roster?

  • what mechs, if any, are being left out of high tier play?
  • what would you - the players with the sort of insight to leave these mechs alone - would change about these to make them more viable in high-tier play?
  • would these changes enrich gameplay across all levels? if so, how?

please limit your changes to the "low-grade" mechs that you do not see in the higher MMR matches, and not the standard "[insert mech here] is too OP plz nerf" response that seems, at least to me, so proliferate.

 

Extra credit: maybe consider a broader change to all other mechs that would eliminate the OP-ness of OP mechs?

 

Edit:  I will continue to reply and probe for specifics in order to keep this discussion going. be warned...


Edited by coldform, 16 April 2015 - 12:16 AM.

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I like going against the best of any game I play. Helps you in the long run n motivates u to do more. Always room for improvement not failure

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czerofive-Today at 2:22 AM > got banned from playing lazertag - I used a knife to conserve ammo

FIRST OFF WHAT THE FUZZ IS A "SHILL"


#2
KilleR_OrigiNs

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Increasing the speed in which most, if not all mechs move to the player's cursor would be a good place to start. Though it doesn't affect those who have practiced with them for an extended period of time, I can see where it would be challenging for newer players to learn the rotation time of each individual mech.

 

I was initially going to say to increase the speed in which the Predator turns about, but I feel that a solid buff for both B and C class mechs would benefit lower tier players. Upper tier players would only see benefit.


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#3
coldform

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Increasing the speed in which most, if not all mechs move to the player's cursor would be a good place to start.

 

Are you referring to the turn cap rate? if so, I was under the impression that the turn cap rate was part of what makes hawken's playstyle unique, and altering this would remove that. would that be the case?

 

I don't mean to derail my own thread, just trying to extend the discussion along the spirit of the topic.


I like going against the best of any game I play. Helps you in the long run n motivates u to do more. Always room for improvement not failure

z6aJAX7.png?1

 

czerofive-Today at 2:22 AM > got banned from playing lazertag - I used a knife to conserve ammo

FIRST OFF WHAT THE FUZZ IS A "SHILL"


#4
ticklemyiguana

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G2 Assault. Least viable mech in comp play due to complete lack of burst weaponry. It's very easy to escape one.

 

Perhaps the vulcan XTs could have a decreased spool up time, or perhaps they could literally be switched out for SMCs. Who knows. All I know is that thing is junk against players who know what they're doing.

 

 

 

 

Bonus points? Reduce or remove the pause between boosting and shooting. Such a mechanic only benefits defensive mechs, C classes mostly, and C classes are in general more powerful than A's and B's already. Boosting into a fight with a G2A is a death sentence.


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#5
SatelliteJack

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Outside of the G2's I feel like the Reaper needs some serious tooth sharpening. It does okay damage, but it never seems to get the job done, especially given the fact that it can't take that much damage. Also, accuracy boost ability on a sniper mech? Genius. Give it a little extra oomph, a more useful ability, and everything should be right as rain.


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#6
coldform

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G2 Assault. Least viable mech in comp play due to complete lack of burst weaponry. It's very easy to escape one.

 

Perhaps the vulcan XTs could have a decreased spool up time, or perhaps they could literally be switched out for SMCs. Who knows. All I know is that thing is junk against players who know what they're doing.

 

Great point.  I like the idea of a reduced Spinup on the Vulcan XTs.  even a skrub like me can appreciate the benefit this would have in playing this mech at any skill level. And just the Idea of dual SMCs makes me grin.

 

 

Bonus points? Reduce or remove the pause between boosting and shooting. Such a mechanic only benefits defensive mechs, C classes mostly, and C classes are in general more powerful than A's and B's already. Boosting into a fight with a G2A is a death sentence.

 

bonus points fo sho. I like this one because it has the possibility to be easily implemented from the developer's perspective, at least for all mechs.  What about varing degrees of "arms up" speed?

Class specific or mech specific?

Or would that create more OP-ness?

 

 

Outside of the G2's I feel like the Reaper needs some serious tooth sharpening. It does okay damage, but it never seems to get the job done, especially given the fact that it can't take that much damage. Also, accuracy boost ability on a sniper mech? Genius. Give it a little extra oomph, a more useful ability, and everything should be right as rain.

 

 

I like where this one is going too.

What exactly would you consider "extra oomph"? longer duration/shorter cooldown? or maybe a damage buff tied in?


Edited by coldform, 16 April 2015 - 12:11 AM.

I like going against the best of any game I play. Helps you in the long run n motivates u to do more. Always room for improvement not failure

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czerofive-Today at 2:22 AM > got banned from playing lazertag - I used a knife to conserve ammo

FIRST OFF WHAT THE FUZZ IS A "SHILL"


#7
dorobo

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I feel that g2 has it's place in it's current state. You just have to catch your opponent in the open. Sure if you gonna follow him corner after corner to your death it becomes junk. In chokepoint camping moments it really helps throwing that in at a certain moments. Im not much of a comp player anyways so who knows.. might be wrong here.


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#8
dorobo

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bonus points fo sho. I like this one because it has the possibility to be easily implemented from the developer's perspective, at least for all mechs.  What about varing degrees of "arms up" speed?

Class specific or mech specific?

Or would that create more OP-ness?

maybe even current weapon on a mech specific? 


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#9
ticklemyiguana

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I feel that g2 has it's place in it's current state. You just have to catch your opponent in the open. Sure if you gonna follow him corner after corner to your death it becomes junk. In chokepoint camping moments it really helps throwing that in at a certain moments. Im not much of a comp player anyways so who knows.. might be wrong here.

I can understand the mentality, however in comp play, in order for a mech to be viable, you can't leave the position of an entire engagement up to chance. You absolutely need to be able to control that, and few, if any comp players are going to engage with a complete lack of cover around. Once there's essentially any cover at all, you can just wait for the G2A to stop shooting, either as a result of overheat, or as a result of not wanting to overheat. Not to mention, if there's cover, most mechs have some form of burst functionality, and the minor damage you'll sustain from .5 seconds in the open against a G2A is literally always less than the damage of a single good TOW.


Edited by ticklemyiguana, 16 April 2015 - 12:20 AM.

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#10
BaronSaturday

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I say keep a vulcan xt and swap one for an assault cannon. That way there's still a spin up, but it could start putting decent damage on the enemy right away. I think having a double sustained hit scan mech is great, but the g2 assault is more of a damage support mech right noe. Giving this thing a more powerful sustain punch than it has would go leagues to making it viable. I know the g2 mechs are supposed to be fun and not taken seriously, but the g2 assault is lack luster in every sense of the phrase.
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#11
KilleR_OrigiNs

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Are you referring to the turn cap rate? if so, I was under the impression that the turn cap rate was part of what makes hawken's playstyle unique, and altering this would remove that.

It is indeed a major difference compared to other games, and an incredibly welcome one due to the realism of it, however a slight boost to a few of the mechs (perhaps all B and C classes is a bit much) would increase the crossover from A to C, and especially from CoD to HAWKEN. I would never recommend the removal of a challenge like that, but a boost to certain mechs would be more helpful than others.

Granted, it wouldn't be the worst just to increase the Predator's turn cap in Predator mode, as per the original idea. I'm certain it's just my own rust and lack of practice, but I know the Predator won't be getting a damage buff, so increasing its look speed a small amount works be an appreciable idea.

Edited by KilleR_OrigiNs, 16 April 2015 - 12:38 AM.

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#12
BaronSaturday

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It is indeed a major difference compared to other games, and an incredibly welcome one due to the realism of it, however a slight boost to a few of the mechs (perhaps all B and C classes is a bit much) would increase the crossover from A to C, and especially from CoD to HAWKEN. I would never recommend the removal of a challenge like that, but a boost to certain mechs would be more helpful than others.

Granted, it wouldn't be the worst just to increase the Predator's turn cap in Predator mode, as per the original idea. I'm certain it's just my own rust and lack of practice, but I know the Predator won't be getting a damage buff, so increasing its look speed a small amount works be an appreciable idea.


CoD drones don't tend to like HAWKEN. I'm fine with that. Halo fans seem to like it. I'm fine with that. CoD players tend to add toxicity to the community when they come over en mass. Not all CoD players of course. But there's a serious Doxing DDosing problem in the CoD community.

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#13
KilleR_OrigiNs

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CoD drones don't tend to like HAWKEN.

Feel free to interchange CoD with any other first person shooter.

Edited by KilleR_OrigiNs, 16 April 2015 - 12:37 AM.


#14
coldform

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Reply refrence, because quoting is going to get out of hand:

-> https://community.pl...rse/#entry18758

 

both of your points are valid(dorobo and ticklemyiguana), and my question would be to both of you, but more so to dorobo: what would you like to see done to the G2A that would make it more viable in corner play?

 

(BTW, I played in a high-tier match today. cornerplay is the order of the day. and: ouch! 4K/26D! XD)

 

---

 

-> https://community.pl...rse/#entry18759

 

another great idea, but how would you counter-balance the damage difference?

 

---

 

-> https://community.pl...rse/#entry18761

 

noted clarification: the turn rate for the predator.  any other mechs out there that you feel need this sort of change?

 

---

 

-> https://community.pl...rse/#entry18764

 

duly noted:  hawken's mechanics tend to attract friendlier players, which helps reduce toxicity in the community. but what about the mechs??     ;)


Edited by coldform, 16 April 2015 - 12:41 AM.

I like going against the best of any game I play. Helps you in the long run n motivates u to do more. Always room for improvement not failure

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czerofive-Today at 2:22 AM > got banned from playing lazertag - I used a knife to conserve ammo

FIRST OFF WHAT THE FUZZ IS A "SHILL"


#15
KilleR_OrigiNs

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any other mechs out there that you feel need this sort of change?

To be honest, I feel minimally qualified to comment on the Predator as it is. Though I've spent most of my time in it, I feel commenting on its status is unjust even with the dozens of hours logged in it.

I'd like to see that modification fine to the Brawler, but know how great it already is for higher skilled players.

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Can remove since it's not mech related.

Edited by KilleR_OrigiNs, 16 April 2015 - 12:48 AM.


#16
SatelliteJack

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What exactly would you consider "extra oomph"? longer duration/shorter cooldown? or maybe a damage buff tied in?

 

I think it needs an ability overhaul, as well as a damage buff. If I could get a side of kills with my heaping helping of assists, that'd be lovely.


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#17
BaronSaturday

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-> https://community.pl...rse/#entry18759

another great idea, but how would you counter-balance the damage difference?

change the DPS on tge xt until you're at 150 total then make changes from there.

Edit for clarification: change the Vulcan Xts DPS until the combined AC and Xt DPS is at 150. The current total DPS of two Vulcan xts is 135. That's only 10pts higher than a single Point D Vulcan.

Edited by SaturdayGhede, 16 April 2015 - 01:07 AM.

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#18
KilleR_OrigiNs

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Redacted.

Edited by KilleR_OrigiNs, 16 April 2015 - 01:12 AM.


#19
dorobo

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Maybe just reducing spinup time would be enough.. I don't think g2a needs to be good at corner play.



#20
Superkamikazee

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Bonus points? Reduce or remove the pause between boosting and shooting. Such a mechanic only benefits defensive mechs, C classes mostly, and C classes are in general more powerful than A's and B's already. Boosting into a fight with a G2A is a death sentence.


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#21
BaronSaturday

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Maybe just reducing spinup time would be enough.. I don't think g2a needs to be good at corner play.


I don't know. Maybe it should be? Besides, the AC isn't the best corner play weapon. It's more of an all purpose, mid range dps weapon. I think the change I proposed would keep it very dangerous up close, viable mid range, and add some interesting tactical options like corner play. Right now it's.just not viable. I really wish ADH didn't make the G2 line "just for fun." I think they would be better placed as an interesting and viable lateral progression of it's counterpart. Still a fun idea that brings new gameplay options with an interesting and unique loadout, but still viable in upper tier combat. Just my opinion.

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#22
Kopra

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change the DPS on tge xt until you're at 150 total then make changes from there.

Edit for clarification: change the Vulcan Xts DPS until the combined AC and Xt DPS is at 150. The current total DPS of two Vulcan xts is 135. That's only 10pts higher than a single Point D Vulcan.

 

February called. February of 2014.

 

The combined DPS was increased to 155 back then.



#23
M4st0d0n

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Maybe just reducing spinup time would be enough.. I don't think g2a needs to be good at corner play.

 

G2A was sold "for the lolz". If you tweak his primary will it impact the gameplay of the other mechs?

 

Edit : Ok to be clear, spinup reduced just for Vulcan XT? Right now balance between Vulcan D, SMC and AR could use a rework IMO.


Edited by M4st0d0n, 16 April 2015 - 05:43 AM.


#24
(P:B)Augmentia

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G2 Assault. Least viable mech in comp play due to complete lack of burst weaponry. It's very easy to escape one.

 

Perhaps the vulcan XTs could have a decreased spool up time, or perhaps they could literally be switched out for SMCs. Who knows. All I know is that thing is junk against players who know what they're doing.

 

 

 

 

Bonus points? Reduce or remove the pause between boosting and shooting. Such a mechanic only benefits defensive mechs, C classes mostly, and C classes are in general more powerful than A's and B's already. Boosting into a fight with a G2A is a death sentence.

 

I don't think you should reduce or remove the pause between boosting and shooting. There are tricks to reduce, such as bunny hopping, which require skill. If you hop into the air your weapons raise in the arc of the jump, and you can often shoot before you touch down to the ground. I think that little things such as these should be kept, because they are little quirks that make Hawken special. Also the G2A plays more of a support role and not a rambo role. If you boost into battle with it you are going to have a bad time fighting people with the same skill level as you.


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#25
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There should be a playtime requirement for accounts before they are allowed to post in these threads.



#26
AsianJoyKiller

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There should be a playtime requirement for accounts before they are allowed to post in these threads.

Time does not necessarily equal (in)competence.


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#27
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^agree
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#28
Silverfire

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My G2 Assault is beautiful and amazing

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#29
CraftyDus

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Depends on game mode and to some extent map, for the last 2 seasons in most teams in TPG, among the least played mechs are the g2's.

G2 assault, raider, and sharpie (reaper is a g2 sharpie imo).

Also conspicuosly scarce are rocketeers (g2 bruiser?).

But thats fine with me, because a just god has an unpleasant metaphysical purgatory planned for rocketeers;

and an eternal utopic paradise planned for those who pine for an alternative eoc C-class in their blessed and pure hearts.

 

 

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#30
ticklemyiguana

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I don't think you should reduce or remove the pause between boosting and shooting. There are tricks to reduce, such as bunny hopping, which require skill. If you hop into the air your weapons raise in the arc of the jump, and you can often shoot before you touch down to the ground. I think that little things such as these should be kept, because they are little quirks that make Hawken special. Also the G2A plays more of a support role and not a rambo role. If you boost into battle with it you are going to have a bad time fighting people with the same skill level as you.

I am aware of every single trick currently used in the game, and utilize them frequently. Bunny hopping into a fight against an equivalently skilled opponent is even worse than boosting. It preserves your momentum. If you have AC, enabled, you have a single opportunity to change that momentum, and are then stuck without any options. This is all happening after boosting and appearing on radar the entire time.
Preservation of momentum for a light mech is, well, a death sentence. The only viable method to negating the weapon raise delay at the moment is dodging out of a boost - however, in a firefight, this forces you into a pattern. I'm unsure where you're at in terms of play, but in order to effectively utilize a light mech in close quarters burst play, there are periods in time in which you must boost to rapidly change your direction after a dodge. In order to shoot again, you must either wait for your weapons to raise, or dodge again. This can easily force you into a recognizable pattern of engagement. Against another light mech, this usually does not matter. However, against something heavier, where the other player can afford to move less and therefore, shoot more, it's uh... A death sentence.

So you utilize corners and poke and adopt a timid playstyle against heavier mech's that takes more time to kill them and just pray that none of their team mates are around or be limited to literally only being effective within a certain survival radius of your team. At this point we've already stripped through the top three options that one has in effectively utilizing a bursty light mech, none of which are much of an issue for heavier or sustained mechs, both of which currently have the advantage in Hawken's meta.

Decreasing, or removing the weapon cool down time brings them just a little bit closer.

Now, of course, light mechs are actually pretty OP in lower matches where people are still trying to learn to hit the things, but at that point it's sort of a crap shoot and changing something like that isn't going to affect the meta that much, as in all likelihood, it'll help out B's and C's as much or more than A's simply on the basis of how much everyone at that level boosts.
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#31
KilleR_OrigiNs

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Perhaps a chance in the EOC-Repeater as well.
Spoiler


Just limiting its ability to hold up an area in someway would be nice, or providing Predators more reason to use the other two weapons.

#32
CounterlogicMan

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G2 Assault is fine imo. Slam one of those babies into a team fight and you just unloaded a lot of hurt on the other team. Absolutely decimates C and B classes. IMO this mech is very underutilized, same with G2 Raider.

 

Now to my contribution to the topic.

 

Think about how easy it is to apply full damage with most weapons....now think about how hard it is with the eoc repeater.

 

EOC mechs...I would like to see a slight speed buff to the pucks. A lot of dueling in an eoc mech does not only relies on the users omniscience of enemy movement (placing mines on the ground where the enemy will be) it also relies on getting direct hits. EOC does 13 damage when it explodes on the ground. It does an extra 13 damage if you hit directly (26 damage per puck on direct hit). Which is good burst if you can hit all the pucks but this rarely happens if you are fighting against competent pilots. On top of this the rate of fire is slow (1.5s fire rate for 3 pucks and 3s fire rate for 6 pucks).

 

Summary of eoc stats:

 

3 pucks = 39 damage no direct hit and 78 damage w/ direct hit | fire rate is 1.5s

6 pucks = 78 damage no direct hit and 156 damage w/ direct hit | fire rate is 3s

 

The mine lifetime is 7 seconds 

 

speed of the mines is 200 m/s 

 

I propose a 25-50 m/s increase to eoc mines flight speed. I believe this weapon is very nearly in a good spot but the mines are just a little too slow. The result of these pucks being to slow in the air is that an already high clutch weapon, that punishes you for missing direct hits w/ a low rate of fire and halved damage, is made even more difficult to use because of low puck velocity. This is especially apparent in 1v1 situations when you absolutely need to hit the enemy mech directly to win. I believe a speed buff to pucks would put the eoc repeater in a nice spot, in terms of versatility vs specialization, compared to other weapons in the game. 

 

The focus of this change is to make direct hits slightly more achievable in more situations.

 

This would benefit the eoc raider, eoc infiltrator, eoc predator, and eoc rocketeer. All mechs which most players, that I play with, agree to be very rare in high tier play and questionable picks over other mechs in scrimmages between organized teams. 


Edited by CounterlogicMan, 16 April 2015 - 11:53 AM.

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#33
ticklemyiguana

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G2 Assault is fine imo. Slam one of those babies into a team fight and you just unloaded a lot of hurt on the other team. Absolutely decimates C and B classes. IMO this mech is very underutilized, same with G2 Raider.

Now to my contribution to the topic.

Think about how easy it is to apply full damage with more weapons....now think about how hard it is with the eoc repeater.

EOC mechs...would like to see a slight speed buff to the pucks. A lot of dueling in an eoc mech does not only rely on the users omniscience of enemy movement (placing mines on the ground where the enemy will be) but also on getting direct hits. EOC does 13 damage when it explodes on the ground. It does an extra 13 damage if you hit directly (26 damage per puck on direct hit). Which is good burst if you can hit all the pucks but this rarely happens if you are fighting against competent pilots. On top of this the rate of fire is slow (1.5s fire rate for 3 pucks and 3s fire rate for 6 pucks).

Summary of eoc stats:

3 pucks = 39 damage no direct hit and 78 damage w/ direct hit | fire rate is 1.5s
6 pucks = 78 damage no direct hit and 156 damage w/ direct hit | fire rate is 3s

The mine lifetime is 7 seconds

speed of the mines is 200 m/s

I propose a 25-50 m/s increase to eoc mines flight speed. I believe this weapon is very nearly in a good spot but the mines are just a little too slow. The result of these pucks being to slow in the air is that an already high clutch weapon, that punishes you for missing direct hits w/ a low rate of fire and halved damage, is made even more difficult to use. Especially in 1v1 situations when you need to hit the enemy mech directly to win.

The focus of this change is to make direct hits slightly more achievable in more situations.

This would benefit the eoc raider, eoc infiltrator, eoc predator, and eoc rocketeer. All mechs which most players agree to be very rare in high tier play and questionable picks over other mechs in scrimmages between organized teams.

Just playing one argument against the other - if one of the signs that the EOC repeater needs a slight buff is that it's a rare and questionable pick in organized scrimmages, can't the same be said for the G2A?

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 16 April 2015 - 09:27 AM.

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#34
CraftyDus

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Gawd don't buff the eoc. It'd just make it popular with knuckle-dragging mouth-breathers.

Leave it wanting something from it's user, in order to be as effective as those driving the idiot cars.

It's nice where it is.


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#35
KilleR_OrigiNs

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This would benefit the eoc raider, eoc infiltrator, eoc predator, and eoc rocketeer. All mechs which most players agree to be very rare in high tier play and questionable picks over other mechs in scrimmages between organized teams.

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#36
Kopra

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G2 Assault is fine imo. Slam one of those babies into a team fight and you just unloaded a lot of hurt on the other team. Absolutely decimates C and B classes. IMO this mech is very underutilized, same with G2 Raider.

 

Now to my contribution to the topic.

 

Think about how easy it is to apply full damage with more weapons....now think about how hard it is with the eoc repeater.

 

EOC mechs...would like to see a slight speed buff to the pucks. A lot of dueling in an eoc mech does not only rely on the users omniscience of enemy movement (placing mines on the ground where the enemy will be) but also on getting direct hits. EOC does 13 damage when it explodes on the ground. It does an extra 13 damage if you hit directly (26 damage per puck on direct hit). Which is good burst if you can hit all the pucks but this rarely happens if you are fighting against competent pilots. On top of this the rate of fire is slow (1.5s fire rate for 3 pucks and 3s fire rate for 6 pucks).

 

Summary of eoc stats:

 

3 pucks = 39 damage no direct hit and 78 damage w/ direct hit | fire rate is 1.5s

6 pucks = 78 damage no direct hit and 156 damage w/ direct hit | fire rate is 3s

 

The mine lifetime is 7 seconds 

 

speed of the mines is 200 m/s 

 

I propose a 25-50 m/s increase to eoc mines flight speed. I believe this weapon is very nearly in a good spot but the mines are just a little too slow. The result of these pucks being to slow in the air is that an already high clutch weapon, that punishes you for missing direct hits w/ a low rate of fire and halved damage, is made even more difficult to use. Especially in 1v1 situations when you need to hit the enemy mech directly to win. 

 

The focus of this change is to make direct hits slightly more achievable in more situations. 

 

This would benefit the eoc raider, eoc infiltrator, eoc predator, and eoc rocketeer. All mechs which most players agree to be very rare in high tier play and questionable picks over other mechs in scrimmages between organized teams.

 

Having to wait 1.5s until I can finish an A-class after a full perfect salvo is what makes me switch to the flak weapons. I kill faster, easier, and often from a longer distance. EOC has burst but that burst is not viable on its own, you need either teammates to finish off your target or need to use those hilariously nerfed Detonators or HE-Charges to maybe go for an instakill.



#37
CraftyDus

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Damn theorycrafting forum lords, nvm the eoc. If you haven't spent 40 hour weeks on it in 2015,..... STAHP!

Go back to the low hanging fruit mechs you know and love.


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#38
Kopra

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Spoiler

 

You're probably mistaking EOC Repeater's area "control" to its Predator variant.

 

EOC-P has mines that have over quadruple damage (60 vs 13), Jupiter sized radius and falloff doesn't start until you've passed the equivalent of Neptune. The mines have infinite lifetime, and, sometimes can't be destroyed with splash.

 

 

Primary EOC mines only tickle if you manage to stumble right over them during their short lifetime.



#39
KilleR_OrigiNs

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Primary EOC mines only tickle if you manage to stumble right over them during their short lifetime.

I agree that the EOC-P needs to be reworked as well, but I'm indeed talking about the repeater.

Yes the repeater mines do die after a while, but how many are you allowed to put down in fully charged shots?

The repeater and the predators secondary makes the predator a more useful backfield player compared to it's other two weapons. Buffing the repeater in total will increase the number of spam predators.

#40
CounterlogicMan

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Okay, so first off. I was not proposing a change in rate of fire, or damage. I was simply suggesting a slight boost in the velocity of the pucks. Purposefully so, due to the fact that in various points of Hawken history the EOC repeater has been op precisely because of it either doing to much damage or firing to quickly. 

 

I believe a speed buff to pucks would put the eoc repeater in a nice spot, in terms of versatility/specialization, compared to other weapons. 

 

-----------

 

CraftyDus uses troll,

 

it is not very effective.

 

There is a problem when a player using any other weapon can reliably apply damage with very little effort, in comparison to the EOC Repeater. Especially if this difference causes the vast majority of the player population to simply not use the weapon.

 

I don't propose huge changes, I think a small elegant change can increase the EOC Repeaters versatility without making it to easy to use. 

 

#EOCMASTERRACE

 

-----------

 

@TicklemyIguana 

 

I was drawing from my experience as a player. To support the argument that many players don't use the EOC, or simply choose other mechs/weapons, because it is factually easier to apply damage with most other weapons in the game. It is not hard to apply damage with the G2A. You point directly at the enemy and fire. There is a difference between the argument I was making about the EOC and the argument I briefly mentioned for the G2A. One I argued is underutilized, and not underpowered/overpowered, while the other I am arguing the risk/reward for EOC is skewed compared to other weapon options resulting in the EOC being rewarding to use in very specific situations and very punishing and most other situations.

 

You can choose to use the fact that not many players choose the G2A as a sign that something might be wrong with it. If that is the case and you want to convince other people of this. Then you will need to create a post to argue that, preferably using stats and stuff. Kind of like what I did for the EOC repeater.

 

Sorry that I might not have been clear enough before in my argument. 


Edited by CounterlogicMan, 16 April 2015 - 12:00 PM.

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