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Matches can now start with just one player

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#1
capnjosh

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It will take some time for this configuration change to populate through all the servers, but I've been wanting to know for a long time what would happen if we allowed matches to simply start with just one players instead of 4.  The numbers say that a consistent 33% of all players do the "show up in a lobby, see the match is not started, leave".

 

I'm wanting to know what your actual experience ends up being with this change.  We will be looking at retention rates, number of play sessions, duration of play sessions, and what % of players do that "show up, look, leave" thing ;)

 

 


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#2
DerMax

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This is good.


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#3
eth0

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SCIENCE IS HAPPENING


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Pubstomping is a whole different strategic discussion, however, and usually just becomes an exploration of the ethics of dumpstering randos.

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#4
Miscellaneous

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nm


Edited by (KDR) Miscellaneous, 15 September 2015 - 10:27 AM.

KOBALT DEFENCE REGIMENT

...and let slip the dogs of war...

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#5
comic_sans

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When I said don't make the same mistake ADH did, I didn't actually expect you guys to not only avoid just that, but to learn from it and experiment in the other direction.  Hells yeah!


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#6
ThirdEyE

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I spent about 10 minutes on a ~2300 mmr account using the matchmaker on NA.  Every time but one it placed me in a server by myself and nobody joined for 30 seconds to 1 minute so I left and re-queued.  The problem I'm seeing is that the matchmaker no longer waits to find a populated server around your mmr, as it placed me in empty servers after only 5-10 seconds of queue time.  Not sure if these issues are related to this change, but regardless matchmaker is broken again.


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#7
Guns_N_Rozer

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noice step 


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#8
Zaxik

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Yeah, so I'm trying to queue for Siege on EU, plenty of servers with people, though all of them all zero-star. And sure enough, the matchmaker just drops me in an empty server :-( If it weren't for this side effect, it would actually sound like a great idea to me!


Edited by Zaxik, 15 September 2015 - 11:21 AM.


#9
Amidatelion

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Good idea, good communication. Keep an eye on the output and keep on keeping on.

#10
DirtyriceTX

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Why do people not just go to "View Servers" and choose one instead of waiting? 



#11
Amidatelion

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Why do people not just go to "View Servers" and choose one instead of waiting?

Because we can't get IN to any of those.

ThirdEye points out that this change seems to have had the unfortunate side effect of not letting high-MMR players queue down into lower brackets because it goes "oh, here's a server that'll start a game as soon as you join... by yourself." Previously it seems it looked for games able to start as soon as you joined, then games in progress.

Functionally, this makes queueing identical to starting your own server, which is pointless for high-MMR players with no one compatible on or the only viable server full already.

Edited by Amidatelion, 15 September 2015 - 11:42 AM.

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#12
Hyginos

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Why do people not just go to "View Servers" and choose one instead of waiting? 

 

MMR restrictions make that much less effective than you make it sound.

 

EDIT: 

 

For those of you without the holy trinity achievement, now might be the time.


Edited by Hyginos, 15 September 2015 - 12:07 PM.

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#13
nepacaka

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"show up in a lobby, see the match is not started, leave".

 

i did it all the time in DM or in MA =/

 

but regardless matchmaker is broken again.

 

i believe devs do something with this problem in future.


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#14
CraftyDus

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You guys need to be more social.

Just grab a few friends and start a server up.

It's why my steam is in my sig.

Community building is fun and easy, and the benefits are myriad.

#CldCllNrds4Hawken


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#15
-Tj-

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I find this to be an odd decision. It might be good for bot matches, but not for PvP servers. It would be fine to allow matches to start with one player on each team, or with two players in a DM, but I don't see what starting a match with one player in the server would help.

To the statistic that players leave if they see that the match hasn't started, does that take into account the number of players that leave when they arrive on an empty server, or just those with less than 4 players on it? I will say that I have left servers with less than 4 players for two reasons:

1: I don't really want to wait too long for more players to show up before the match starts (this is true primarily when I don't have much time to play, otherwise I like to wait for more players to show up, unless everyone else just wants to start).

2: I'm the only player waiting in an otherwise empty server, in which case I just leave immediately, unless I really want to play on that particular server and don't mind trying to wait for a little bit.

Starting a match with just one player would probably cause unbalanced matches to occur more often, too, since there would be no chance for matchmaker to evaluate and distribute players before the match starts.
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#16
StubbornPuppet

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I, for one, think this is not a good idea.  It is fine that you're experimenting, but it is a big problem when matches start with only 4-5 players - it doesn't play well with that few people and the worst part is balance.  It already created terribly imbalanced matches when people joined a match that started with 4-5 players... how awful it will be when people start with only 1 or 2 players.

 

I appreciate the idea, but no thanks.

 

I'd rather see you reduce the number of total matches/servers available and work to get as many people into full matches as quickly as possible than see even more matches with only a handful of bored players.

 

I'd rather wait for a good, balanced match than play by myself.  And how does it decide whether or not to start the match when there are only 2 players?  If one of them readies up and the other doesn't... who wins?


Edited by StubbornPuppet, 15 September 2015 - 12:17 PM.

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#17
TheButtSatisfier

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You guys need to be more social.

Just grab a few friends and start a server up.

It's why my steam is in my sig.

Community building is fun and easy, and the benefits are myriad.

#CldCllNrds4Hawken

 

My friends list shouldn't be doing matchmaker's job.

 

Edit: Crafty's point stands on its own - the benefits are myriad. But I view that as a separate topic from tweaking, critiquing, and improving matchmaker at the design level.


Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 15 September 2015 - 01:01 PM.

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#18
americanbrit14

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For those of you without the holy trinity achievement, now might be the time.

Best abuse the system while we can!


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#19
CraftyDus

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My friends list shouldn't be doing matchmaker's job.

 

Edit: Crafty's point stands on its own - the benefits are myriad. But I view that as a separate topic from tweaking, critiquing, and improving matchmaker at the design level.

 

I feel you

On the other hand if you lonely in Hawken and need a head, don't be a social mutant, hit me up


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#20
claisolais

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Now there are many 1/12, thx to that.


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#21
System64

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#22
capnjosh

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Here's the unexpected effect, as you have already identified - the MatchMaker now seems more eager to put someone into a new server if they are not suitable for any existing match.

 

I'm going to revert the change for now and look through the MatchMaker code to confirm why this behavior was happening.

 

The next change I want to try is to signficantly reduce the MMR expansion time.  I will launch that in the next day or two.


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#23
HorseHeadProphet

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have bot mechs in the server that match the human player's skill level. the bots disappear as human players join. Unreal (and probably other games) was doing this a over a decade ago.


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#24
DieselCat

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Here's the unexpected effect, as you have already identified - the MatchMaker now seems more eager to put someone into a new server if they are not suitable for any existing match.

 

I'm going to revert the change for now and look through the MatchMaker code to confirm why this behavior was happening.

 

The next change I want to try is to signficantly reduce the MMR expansion time.  I will launch that in the next day or two.

 

What does this mean ?

 

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#25
Ashfire908

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The next change I want to try is to signficantly reduce the MMR expansion time.  I will launch that in the next day or two.

What does this mean ?
 
*+


The time it takes for the mmr range of the matchmaking request it's searching in to expand, I believe. Reducing the expansion time means it will look for less desirable matches by mmr quicker. That may sound bad, but it's a trade off between quality and speed. If there's no matches to be had with at the smaller range, it's pretty much wasting time until the search widens. I think that's what josh is getting at.

If I'm wrong, josh can correct me :)

Edited by Ashfire908, 15 September 2015 - 09:03 PM.

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#26
crockrocket

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Here's the unexpected effect, as you have already identified - the MatchMaker now seems more eager to put someone into a new server if they are not suitable for any existing match.

 

I'm going to revert the change for now and look through the MatchMaker code to confirm why this behavior was happening.

 

The next change I want to try is to signficantly reduce the MMR expansion time.  I will launch that in the next day or two.

 

I do think that allowing low player match starts is a good idea as long as it doesn't affect matchmaking. Good work, I think you made the right call for now.


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