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New Internal: Radar Reflector

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#1
WillyW

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I was brainstorming some stuff in the Hawken TeamSpeak, and we came with the idea of an internal that would completely eliminate your individual mech's rader signature. Even with a scanner, you still wouldn't show up. Neither would dodging, boosting, or shooting cause you to show up. This would need to be a minimum 3 slot internal, maybe even 4 slot. The name of it isn't very important, so feel free to suggest a better one. The only thing that would cause you to show up on radar is if you get EMP'd.


Edited by WillyW, 05 October 2015 - 08:18 AM.

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#2
phed

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sounds too powerful.  if you've played in any of the private servers with radar off, you would know what an advantage you'd get by being able to full hard charge blindside ambush a team and not have 5 out of 6 even notice unless they're on voice.

perhaps if you stuck closer to the name, such that it would reflect your radar ping; it'll still show but be off position by a certain amount.

 

would be most useful in corner play and hard charging ambushes.  people are expecting you to round the corner at one moment but you pop out after your dot or right before it.  would pair nicely with the scrambler.


Edited by phed, 05 October 2015 - 08:39 AM.

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#3
Hyginos

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I would run it on every mech without exception.


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#4
ticklemyiguana

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This would be the new meta. No exception. If radar wasn't so powerful to begin with, and movement/positioning wasn't so vital, this would be a reasonable suggestion, but as it stands, it's very much not.
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#5
Merl61

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#6
JackVandal

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Im more to the mind of giving some sort of disruption to your radar signature, at least blocking scanners, perhaps reduce the time you stay on radar after finishing boosting or shooting?

 

Or perhaps reducing the range at which you appear on enemy radar in addition to blocking scanners? though if that was the case perhaps a 2 slot internal?

 

If it were to totally remove from radar it would be really op, like picking turkeys off in a line, start at the back and move forward with none the wiser. like a det infil or a G2R that sneaks behind, it would remove half the team before anyone noticed.


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#7
Draigun

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This is too powerful. Possible iterations (are these really iterations?):

 

  • Radar Signal Jammer, a two-slot, and three-slot only item
  • A working range of 150 m
  • No omnidirectional antenna implementation; instead it will utilize a rotating, small focused beam of coverage for a brief amount of time. See here for the general idea
  • Effect: While in the width of coverage, opposing forces will experience an intermittent signal disruption on the radar for the HUD, essentially removing radar functionality for the duration. Unlike the Radar Scambler, this physically affects the HUD and its radar Tx/Rx (transmit/receive) capabilities
  • However, instead of outright removing functionality of the radar, implement a very marginal, but randomized array of values relative to the strength of the signal jammer. For example, it is still possible to see radar signatures on the radar, but it would require you to take more of your time looking at the radar to actually determine where they are. Even so, the capabilities of your radar can only calculate the general vicinity during the disruption, so it's impossible to pinpoint their location
  • Has a somewhat loud sound when operating, but can only be heard from a distance that is relatively close to its location
  • The signal jammer's frequency will have covered 100 percent of the radius after 5 seconds; the focused beam's duration is exactly 30 percent of the unit's full coverage time; beam's physical width is unit's max operating distance divided by the time it takes to finish a full scan; total lifespan of the unit is 120 seconds
    • Which translates to: for every enemy within the operating distance (DetectDistance), they will experience a HUD radar signal disruption for exactly 1.5 seconds (BeamDuration) for every 5 seconds (ScanFinished).
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#8
SatelliteJack

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#BrokeAsFuzz I don't even want to think about what this would be like in-game. It would be so game-breakingly OP. Imagine a Raider with this thing. Or a Zerker. Or a Vanguard, or a Pred...

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#9
AxionOperandi

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I have my doubts that something like this could ever work but........

What if instead of jamming the radar signature it deflected it so you would appear to be a in a slightly different location than your actual position? How far off from your real location would be a balance tweak.

#10
The_Silencer

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At a first glance: OP.

 

Although you already have a "secret internal" which makes you to do not render on radar when walking. ;)

 

P.S. This reminds me of the Scanner. Item which still requires to be revised..


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#11
Panzermanathod

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I have my doubts that something like this could ever work but........

What if instead of jamming the radar signature it deflected it so you would appear to be a in a slightly different location than your actual position? How far off from your real location would be a balance tweak.

Isn't that basically the radar duping decoy?



#12
AxionOperandi

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Isn't that basically the radar duping decoy?


The Scrambler?

Yeah, kinda I guess. But instead of random contacts on the radar in places they can't be moving in random easily detectable ways this would throw your position off X number of feet making you look like you are in a slightly different position.

#13
DeeRax

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Along the lines of some other suggestions in this thread... Just make the Holograms show up on radar (If they don't already?? Correct me if I'm wrong).

Adds this sort of (sort of) functionality to the game, and buffs holos at the same time. 2 birds stoned at once.
Without being as OP as OP's original idea.


Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 05 October 2015 - 04:05 PM.

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#14
Panzermanathod

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The Scrambler?

Yeah, kinda I guess. But instead of random contacts on the radar in places they can't be moving in random easily detectable ways this would throw your position off X number of feet making you look like you are in a slightly different position.

 

So... basically a weaker version of the scrambler. (I forgotten what it was called)

 

Not to be rude, but this is basically the scrambler with fewer pips. At least with the scrambler there was the chance that someone may or may not be in that mass of pips. Whether or not some pips go outside the boundaries doesn't really matter much, it simply isn't being used in the best manner. But with having one pip there's limited uses. There *is* someone there more often than not. It might be good for ambushes except for the fact that it could also outright advertise that that's an ambush area.



#15
Call_Me_Ishmael

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I'd like to suggest the name be 'Radar Absorbent' and that it effectively either reduce the distance a mech can be illuminated at, or reduce the amount of time a mech lingers on radar after boosting or shooting to 0.

 

In the second approach, it has a subtle effect, but would help with evasion after losing a fight, and with counterattack/riposte.


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#16
6ixxer

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I suggest making it that if you EMP a radar, not only does it destroy in a fun way, but it disables the radar on the mech that dropped it for 20 sec.

Would make fun retribution on private servers and troll those that only know how to win with scanners.

 

Otherwise have a setting on private servers that bans certain items, If you drop them they just self destruct.

I specifically mean scanner and jammer and repair charges (not HE/Det which cause a proper splash explosion)

 

+1 to Holos on radar

1) Whole team drops holos under the AA :p

2) Profit?



#17
AxionOperandi

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So... basically a weaker version of the scrambler. (I forgotten what it was called)
 
Not to be rude, but this is basically the scrambler with fewer pips. At least with the scrambler there was the chance that someone may or may not be in that mass of pips. Whether or not some pips go outside the boundaries doesn't really matter much, it simply isn't being used in the best manner. But with having one pip there's limited uses. There *is* someone there more often than not. It might be good for ambushes except for the fact that it could also outright advertise that that's an ambush area.


Well, with the Scrambler the blips move in random pretty fuzzy bunny patterns that easy to spot as bogus. If the radar reported your movements correct but your position off say 200' the enemy would be expecting you in on spot but you'd show up in another. Could be quite useful for flanking maneuvers or avoid being chased down via the radar during hasty retreats.

#18
Panzermanathod

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But what if the single blip is also in a spot where it's impossible for someone to reasonably move in? and 200 feet isn't that far for a bunch of large robots. It won't be particularly great for ambushes unless you can actively set how the blip is positioned, and during "hasty retreats" something like that wouldn't help because if you're being chased, if you're making a blip the chaser will either see you still or note that the blip is now in a different spot.

 

Yes, the scrambler makes blips that are obviously fake. That's kind of the point. They could all be fake. Or they could mask an enemy or two.

 

I get what you're saying but in the end really proper use of a scrambler will take care of your needs. The fact that it's not tied to your actual position might be better overall.



#19
WillyW

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Wow I am surprised with how many people disagree with this. My original intention was to try to find something to combat the scanner item, due to its wall-hack ridiculousness.

Further, I have a suggestion to alter the original idea.

1) You are also invisible on your team's radar

2) Predators have the ability to pick up your signal and allow teammates/enemies within range as well.

4) To be implemented as an item instead. It could be dropped and have a radius that you need to stay within. It would basically nullify the scanner.


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#20
DeeRax

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Wow I am surprised with how many people disagree with this. My original intention was to try to find something to combat the scanner item, due to its wall-hack ridiculousness.

That just means scanners need to be nerfed/re-worked, not necessarily countered by another equally-powerful item. :thumbsup:

I do really like the idea of an item that displaces or bounces your radar signature, though, as others have suggested. Not sure how to implement something like that, though.

 

Also, to reiterate:
-Make scramblers work a little better

-Make holograms show up on radar


Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 06 October 2015 - 09:11 AM.

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#21
Silverfire

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How about you lose constant radar, get a pinging type radar that reveals more but is in the sweeping type form that refreshes radar every now and then. You gain more info but in short bursts and not sustained radar tracking like it is now.

Just an idea, could be a terrible one tbh
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#22
WillyW

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Also, to reiterate:
-Make scramblers work a little better

-Make holograms show up on radar

 

- Make scramblers imitate human movement (dodging/boosting) instead of looking like floating fairies.

 

- Make holograms pinged on the radar as well.


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#23
DM30

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Like a lot of people have said, in the originally suggested form this would be very OP. But, it's a fresh idea and it shouldn't be discarded.

 

I like the suggestion of having it displace your radar signature. I also really like the idea of having it reduce the distance that your radar signature can be detected at. Would make long flanks more useful since you could boost without showing up on radar for part of the distance (just hope that no members of the enemy team happen to be close enough to detect you.) Might still be OP but I do think this idea is worth more exploring.


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#24
Panzermanathod

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How about you lose constant radar, get a pinging type radar that reveals more but is in the sweeping type form that refreshes radar every now and then. You gain more info but in short bursts and not sustained radar tracking like it is now.

Just an idea, could be a terrible one tbh

 

That reminds me, Armored Core (at least in the older games) had a pinging radar. It didn't sweep, but the radars and radar capable heads had a "Scanning Interval" rating. The lower the number, the faster it refreshes. In Last Raven the lowest I've seen is 1, and the highest was 72, although I don't know if the rating is measured in frames or not.



#25
JackVandal

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This is a good idea for an internal, but the wrong approach, we shouldn't counter op things with other op things. give the scanner a sweep to nerf its wall hack, but make the radar internal half radar signature range detection, and reduce the time on radar after shooting/dodging to zero. 

 

we get a new interesting internal, and nerf a fuzzy bunny.

 

the last thing we need is some scanners users who are radar immune.


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#26
StubbornPuppet

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I've seen an item in other games which causes radar to get 'wonky' when a player running a radar interference device comes into a certain proximity.  The closer they get, the worse the effect becomes.  It's the combination of these two quirks that both make it useful AND keep it from being OP.  If a players radar gets funky, they know you are getting closer by how messed up it is... but they don't know for sure which direction.

 

It worked pretty well without ruining the balance in other games... maybe.


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#27
DieselCat

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Why is there even a need for this ? As I understand it now, radar scanning distances vary from mech to mech. Shouldn't the radar range be equal regardless of one's mech class or type to help keep game-play balanced ?

 

Then again, there was the old optimization tree, where one could chose from either (defense or movement ?) to increase the radar's range.

 

We already have the scrambler and scanner to disrupt things, why do we need more ? I feel adding items like this would just add to imbalance and would cause every player out there making sure their mech is equipped with this type of item.

 

To have such an item that allows one to circumvent radar altogether,  by not having to worry about showing up due to to boosting, firing weapons, etc. (imo) would create chaos.....much too overpowered for my meager abilities to handle.

 

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#28
Panzermanathod

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Why is there even a need for this ? As I understand it now, radar scanning distances vary from mech to mech. Shouldn't the radar range be equal regardless of one's mech class or type to help keep game-play balanced ?

No, that's not balance, that's homogeneity. I mean, you have the Scout... wouldn't be a good scout if its radar was the same as others.

 

I've mentioned before that Armored Core had different radar refresh rates. They also have different distances as well. Radar distances also add to the variety of what sets certain mechs from others.


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#29
DieselCat

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No, that's not balance, that's homogeneity. I mean, you have the Scout... wouldn't be a good scout if its radar was the same as others.

 

I've mentioned before that Armored Core had different radar refresh rates. They also have different distances as well. Radar distances also add to the variety of what sets certain mechs from others.

 

Then why do people fuzzy bunny about the scanner being OP ?....same concept here.......  :rolleyes:


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#30
Panzermanathod

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I'm not entirely sure I follow.

 

Radar ranges and hypothetical refresh rates aren't really the same as issues people have with the scanner.






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