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Where Reloaded Has Failed (so far)

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#1
Merl61

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No updates. 

No tutorials.

Minimal content releases.

Overpriced packages.

Incomplete communication eg. "I'm open to it"

Lack of knowledge concerning game mechanics.

Failure to properly deal with cheaters.

Failure to engage the community in balance discussions. (and subsequently act)

Overfocus on promoting the game through streams that don't show it's true potential. 

Failure to improve the new user experience. 

Failure to address the skillgap.

Failure to fix the matchmaking / in game balance.

 

That being said, there is potential for all these things to be fixed.  We can only hope that it happens soon. I don't claim to have all the answers but I do love Hawken. I don't want to see it go down its current path. There's still hope, but they must act quickly. Everyone has an end to their rope. I really don't want to get to mine.

 

GGs. See you on the battlefield.  

 

Merl


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#2
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

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Unfortunately, the majority several points of the OP are hyperbole at best and lies at worst.

 

EDITs incoming.

 

---

 

 

 

No updates.

https://community.pl...ate-2015-06-26/-> New data center.

https://community.pl...pricing-update/-> Pricing updates which on average decreased the mech price in HC.

https://community.pl...5-08/?hl=turret-> MG turret buff.

 

 

 

Incomplete communication eg. "I'm open to it"

https://community.pl...ate-2015-06-26/

>Week of the 19th was missed.

https://community.pl...ate-2015-06-12/

https://community.pl...ate-2015-05-29/

And so on...

 

 

 

Failure to engage the community in balance discussions. (and subsequently act)

The subsequently act portion is the only portion that is true. There have been instance(s) of capnjosh participating in discussions such as the "orblording" issue, whereupon he asked for requests for how to balance the variables. I cannot find the discussion at the moment.

 

 

 

Failure to improve the new user experience. 

Failure to address the skillgap.

Failure to fix the matchmaking / in game balance.

Although the end result may not have been very impactful, there have been efforts taken toward the new user experience and the matchmaking balance.

https://community.pl...me-adjustments/

All three issues are confounded by many community members' intense contradiction between their beliefs that high-skilled players should be able to play the game and yet the undeniable facts that these high-skilled players are disproportionately affecting individual match balance.

 

---

 

Many other points are much more subjective. For example, I agree deeply with the pricing complaints and I do not think enough has been done about this. HAWKEN really needs a "buy everything at once and so on for X$" package solution that does not place in the price range of triple A games, which the game Evolve on the PC platform has demonstrated spectacularly to be an utterly disastrous move.

 

This concludes my edits.


Edited by WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW, 01 July 2015 - 01:16 AM.

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Thank you for your time,

 

WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW


#3
Onebullit

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Reloaded is working on the game with 4-5 people, what exactly did you expect?


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#4
Elite_is_salty

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Unfortunately, the majority several points of the OP are hyperbole at best and lies at worst.

 

EDITs incoming.

 

WWWWWWWW intensifies


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#5
Aregon

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Give them time, they are still not a full team and have barely started up after what I have understood. 


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#6
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

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The problem facing Reloaded working on Hawken at present appear to me to be the following:
(1) Small team size

(2) Setting up infrastructure for a development team

(3) On-going problems in server and client performance.

(4) Catering to multiple community issues at once

 

Reloaded does not seem to have sufficient resources (primarily labour) to effect many changes at once. Capnjosh also seems to be very focused on making observations with large data before deciding on changes, which will naturally take a longer amount of time than to simply rush through things fixing issues. This matter particularly is a software development process issue.

 

I mean, I sure wish I could just jump on some source code repo and just start doing fixes but like, capitalism and property rights, man.

 

EDIT:

Still, I like this thread since it does summarize a pretty significant portion of issues that community members have been working on for a while.


Edited by WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW, 01 July 2015 - 01:28 AM.

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Thank you for your time,

 

WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW


#7
nepacaka

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Objective ?1 for current devs - find a programmers. all other is secondarily...

no programmers - no global changes. u should understand it.


Edited by nepacaka, 01 July 2015 - 01:38 AM.

Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#8
Anichkov3

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Sir Aregon right.

A few words about "orblording": in my opinion simply enough remove from the Extractor impact on orbs with armor. Thus, the effect of internal would apply only to orbs of energy. I believe that with the help and repair orb with armor should change. We need to do as well as we did with the technician: that if you take damage from an enemy (and in the next five seconds) the rate of repair of the orb with armor is halved.

 

A few words about matchmaking. In my opinion, as long as the players so little pointless to try to equalize both veterans and beginners.
In occasion balance of weapons: a rather complicated question, because the same weapons are used in various mechs (not poring over these wranglings probably going debate about the nerf raider, scout and Berserker).


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#9
comic_sans

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I think we're just now, with the hiring of new programmers, getting to the point where some of those things might be addressed.


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#10
crockrocket

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I think the primary fault here, i.e. the one that could be dealt with, is the inability to deal with hackers. It has been proven that players CAN be banned (RE: AK), yet reloaded has not actioned hackers even in the case where there is a significant body of proof.


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#11
dorobo

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history repeats itself.. let's hope that the outcome will be different this time. 


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#12
SOD_CyberTormentor

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The problem that Reloaded so far only do minor updates in the backend, anything related to interface for everyone to see their actions, merely to launch a patch changing the logo on the intro video, already promote a placebo effect on users less connected to reports the Reloaded and give the impression to them that this really is something being worked on. We understand how difficult it is to work with a small people, but the game also needs some changes more "visual" ...

 

and of course, being based on everything Merl said above 


Edited by SOD_CyberTormentor, 01 July 2015 - 03:52 AM.

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#13
CrimsonKaim

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While Merl probably just overreacts, his basic idea is true.

 

It was predictable that Reloaded will not be able to revive such a screwed up game, atleast not in time. 

 

Josh announced several things (for example more aggressive balancing changes) which never have been done in time. After almost one month, I didn't see any change in balancing. The turret damage icnrease was before this announcement.

 

In addition, I citicize Josh/Reloaded for approaching things slowly, as he stated in one dev update. Time is a resource Hawken/ADH wasted before. Imagine if hawken would be finished in like 2 years. That would be almost 5 years of developement to release a game that is stable. By that time, Hawken's main power (good graphics) are worthless since technology developes at a very fast rate.

 

So the only thing Hawken can attract players with is a weakness (poor graphics compared to other future games) and game specific/unique features such as gameplay (mech shooter, fast paced CQC, etc.). I fear this won't be enough and Hawken will never ever be a serious competetor to other F2P FPS games.

I even doubt that Hawken will ever get out of the beta phase at all.

 

See, I myself already switched to other games (Elite Dangerous at the moment) because, though ED has mixed reviews, I enjoy the game but furthermore I have hope in improvement, while I lost all hopes in Hawken.

 

 

 

The thing Merl is telling the majority and Reloaded is that Hawken is still in a terrible state (I like to call it having a disease). And the longer the disease is persistent, the more damage Hawken will suffer longterm.

In addition, he wants to tell Reloaded that trust is a valueable resource presented by the community and that it doesn't really help to promise stuff that is not delivered in time (ADH style) and being unsure about certain aspects is a disaster by itself because it feels like the devs have no idea about what they are doing.

 

 

See, I have played some games with Josh himself and I think we all can agree that he is a nice person, but additionally, we can agree that he does not really understand the gameplay of Hawken. Considering him being good in Hawken would be a lie.

Now, a developer hasn't to be good in the game but he should atleast understand it. And as far as I can tell, he does not. 

This results in a dependency of the community due to the lack of understanding to make influencign changes, which is (in my eyes) the main reason why no balancing changes are made, 'cause our devs still don't really understand the game.

 

 

Now my beloved restaurant example: I don't care wheather or not the kitchen is burning, I, as a customer, expect my food to be delivered in time with a decent quality. And why the kitchen may no longer burn, the reason for that isn't that the fire got cleared but that the fire already burned everything that is burnable due to the fatal failure of ADH. 

Josh has a huge task to do and, with all respect, I doubt he will succeed. I'm sorry.


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#14
The_Silencer

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to the @OP:

 

the topic of your thread should be

 

Reloaded, where is my new HAWKEN stuff (so far) ?

instead of ...

Where Reloaded Has Failed (so far)
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.

The difference between theory and practice is smaller in theory than it is in practice.


#15
PsychedelicGrass

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I'm not sure what your expectations were when Reloaded picked up the game, but they're too damn high. It's been what, three months? Three and a half months? There's like half a dozen people working on the game? They're still hiring developers for fuzzy bunny's sake. C'mon now.

 

 

It's going to take quite a long time before hawken becomes what we/the devs want it to be, if it ever happens at all. Just enjoy the fact that the game even still exists.


Edited by PsychedelicGrass, 01 July 2015 - 04:51 AM.

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What's the big fuzzy bunnyng deal? Lots of amazing people have committed suicide, and they turned out alright.

 


#16
CrimsonKaim

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For everyone telling the argument: "What did you expect? Reloaded is too small." 

 

Well then tell me who will succeed.

 

 

Mercedes with dozens of employees and factories as well as tradition and experience or five people who said "Let's rescue a car that has 3 wheels!".

 

 

The circumstances do not matter at all. Only the result does. If you have two employees or twenty, I don't care as long as my car has four wheels instead of three.


Edited by FakeName, 01 July 2015 - 05:07 AM.

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#17
Panzermanathod

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If circumstances didn't matter at all we wouldn't be here in the first place talking about this stuff.


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#18
Odinous

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Close your eyes,think about few months ago,u didnt had future in hawken,now u do,cause of Reloaded..Patience needed people..


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#19
LaurenEmily

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Drama queening intensifies


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#20
CrimsonKaim

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I think it is funny how people will always stay optimistic.

Still remember the days where a "cheer-the-devs-up" thread was created like .. every day.

 

What did it use?

Has anything changed?

Was the effort worth?

Did it make any single damn influence?

 

 

Today I laugh about those who thought they could change something, and about those who still think they can.

 

 

 

Face it, demanding something that is not available is quite impossible to archieve. 

 

 

 

EDIT: The problem and the state of Hawken was and still is in an alarming state, I don't understand how people take it that easy. That's like global warming. We all know how terrible the situation is.


Edited by FakeName, 01 July 2015 - 06:50 AM.

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#21
Volgraza

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I understand the frustration. Think of this game like a malnourished horse. Left to die and wither by its owner. Reloaded came along because it feels this is a Horse worth saving. and it is. but you don't just saddle the thing up and start riding. you have to Nurse it back to health. Diagnose any other problems and Rehabilitate it. It is a Labor of Love and takes time and recourses to make it happen. Its still a weak horse so it is going to fall down, Stumble, and struggle but if we give it enough time and love then it will be the Strong thoroughbred we know it can be.


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#22
CrimsonKaim

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I understand the frustration. Think of this game like a malnourished horse. Left to die and wither by its owner. Reloaded came along because it feels this is a Horse worth saving. and it is. but you don't just saddle the thing up and start riding. you have to Nurse it back to health. Diagnose any other problems and Rehabilitate it. It is a Labor of Love and takes time and recourses to make it happen. Its still a weak horse so it is going to fall down, Stumble, and struggle but if we give it enough time and love then it will be the Strong thoroughbred we know it can be.

 

Amen.


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#23
StubbornPuppet

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Best, perhaps, to remain disconnected and neutral.  I presume that Reloaded has smart and successful executives and employees who carefully weighed the decision to buy Hawken and found it to be a sound financial investment.  If they didn't have a plan for it's future and making money off it... they wouldn't have bought it (and for a relatively hefty price-tag too).

 

My thinking:

I don't work for Reloaded, never will.  I hope they do well and that Hawken does well - enough to keep it going and growing.  As with every game ever made, people eventually stop playing it and move on.  It's only a matter of time.  Nobody can predict when... or how many times it will enjoy a surge in popularity... but it will come to an end... probably within the next 3 years.  Will we get a sequel at some point... or just enough updates and added content to extend that life?  Nobody knows.

So, I don't worry about it or expend any energy getting upset over it.


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To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#24
nepacaka

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I think it is funny how people will always stay optimistic.

we have a choice?


Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

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#25
Panzermanathod

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I think it is funny how people will always stay optimistic.

I'm not being too optimistic. I'm trying to be reasonable. I'd like some major changes and additional content. I just know that it won't be coming for some time now. If this game crash and burns, so be it. But as we already know, it's been a few months since Reloaded got this game and the issues this game has are more far reaching then 'Needs new maps/balance issues'. But if there was one thing keeping me coming back, at least to these forums, it's knowing that people *are* working on this game.



#26
CrimsonKaim

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I'm not being too optimistic. I'm trying to be reasonable. I'd like some major changes and additional content. I just know that it won't be coming for some time now. If this game crash and burns, so be it. But as we already know, it's been a few months since Reloaded got this game and the issues this game has are more far reaching then 'Needs new maps/balance issues'. But if there was one thing keeping me coming back, at least to these forums, it's knowing that people *are* working on this game.

 

And exactly this made other people like me return but once again, people leave because of Hawken's failure.

I mean it is nice that some people stay but sooner or later everyone will leave.

 

Hawken steam chart

 

You see, after the failure of ADH, people left the game and never returned (so did I). The increase in players can be explained with the arrival of Reloaded but now the players start to leave again due to lack of updates/patches/work actually being done. 

 

I can just tell you how stuff is working. I can not change the circumstances nor can I help Hawken to stay alive. 

 

 

Once again, if Hawken wants to survive then something needs to happen and it needs to happen fast, very fast. ADH wasted most of the time Hawken had back in 12/12/12 and counting on the resource that ADH has wasted previously is a terrible choice. 


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#27
KaylaClaire

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I am pretty sure I read somewhere that not only are they limited by their small staff, but they also need to figure out how the previous team coded things and the like. a good analogy would be like asking you to put together a 3d puzzle of the millenium falcon which had nearly 900 pieces. it's gonna take some time, more then 3 months worth, Patience young one, it is a virtue.


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#28
Panzermanathod

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I'd rather they at least take their time. We don't need yet another rushed patchwork job like some games are nowadays. I'd rather wait than get a bunch of broken crap now.



#29
zorin1

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Does anyone know what the average amount of time a person plays a game?  I would think that Steam would have that kind of information.  Let's just say that most people only play a game for 3 months before them move on.  This means that Hawken need too keep the people interested in the game for at least that long.  The progression through the Mech has to meet that time frame.  I know that it took me a month to level a mech then I would have moved on to another game.  So there needs to be the right balance.  The problem right now with Hawken is that there is not enough people playing.  I myself am starting to get bored with the game since I have leveled every mech at least twice now.  Nothing new to do in the game.  My MMR has been pretty stable around 1950.  So, I don't think I can becoming any better of a player then what I am now.  What else is there to do?  Just waiting for a new Mech and a new map.  I am surprised that I have played Hawken for as long as I have.  Back to my point, people are going to leave after a certain period of time and new people will come to game.  The problem is attracting new players and trying to keep players longer than the average amount of time. 


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#30
comic_sans

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For everyone telling the argument: "What did you expect? Reloaded is too small." 

 

Well then tell me who will succeed.

 

 

Mercedes with dozens of employees and factories as well as tradition and experience or five people who said "Let's rescue a car that has 3 wheels!".

 

 

The circumstances do not matter at all. Only the result does. If you have two employees or twenty, I don't care as long as my car has four wheels instead of three.

 

Your analogy is incorrect.  The company is getting larger and doing work, but a car will not slowly grow its 4th wheel.  And tires are sold separately.  And a whole bunch of other conflations my brain is sparking to think about.


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#31
defekt

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Hawken is still the game I stopped playing a long time ago, for myriad reasons that have been mentioned many times already.  It will be six to twelve months before any material Reloaded-shaped changes hit the table, and only at that point shall I make a judgement as to whether or not Hawken lives again (for me).  Until such time I see absolutely no point in listing what Reloaded haven't fixed yet; to do so smacks more of frustration, impatience, if not even a smidge of arrogance.  Credit Reloaded with the gumption to understand what needs to be done - at least until they provide evidence to the contrary.


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#32
Onebullit

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It was predictable that Reloaded will not be able to revive such a screwed up game, atleast not in time. 

Dude, the guys at Reloaded just took over the project !! You make it sound like they worked on it for several years.

 

Can you pls explain how the game is screwed up?  Hawken has issues, yes, but it's far from a screwed up game.


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HAWKEN ---> hawken ---> hawken ---> RIP 2017

Hawken gameplay and funky fragmontages: Hawken playlist

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#33
CrimsonKaim

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Dude, the guys at Reloaded just took over the project !! You make it sound like they worked on it for several years.

 

Can you pls explain how the game is screwed up?  Hawken has issues, yes, but it's far from a screwed up game.

 

Bankruptcy. 


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#34
Odinous

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I think it is funny how people will always stay optimistic.

Still remember the days where a "cheer-the-devs-up" thread was created like .. every day.

 

What did it use?

Has anything changed?

Was the effort worth?

Did it make any single damn influence?

 

 

Today I laugh about those who thought they could change something, and about those who still think they can.

 

 

 

Face it, demanding something that is not available is quite impossible to archieve. 

 

 

 

EDIT: The problem and the state of Hawken was and still is in an alarming state, I don't understand how people take it that easy. That's like global warming. We all know how terrible the situation is.

Ofc it did,we once again have forums,we still have servers,we still have hawken,we still have this god damn great game to play.

Ok yes we didnt had updates in game,so?

How long Reloaded has this game?3 months?They already did more in few months than we had in a year+.Chill people.


Edited by Odinous, 01 July 2015 - 10:24 AM.

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#35
CrimsonKaim

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Ofc it did,we once again have forums,we still have servers,we still have hawken,we still have this god damn great game to play.

Ok yes we didnt had updates in game,so?

How long Reloaded has this game?3 months?They already did more in few months than we had in a year+.Chill people.

 

So you wanna tell me that cheering up ADH lead to Relaoded buying Hawken? 

 

...


- Sitting next to the sound box in Last Eco -


#36
peacecraftSLD

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Welcome to the world of software where everyone knows how a computer program should be made but will never get made they way it should be.


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#37
Kopra

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Hiring new people, great plans discussed during E3, tournament support in the form of prizes, tests and tweaks.

It's not dead yet.


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#38
hawken00

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Well it sounds a little harsh, but that's pretty much what it is. They probably need a specialized programmer to make a game build tho, that's just my guess. Their last post shows that they really have interest in the game.. I hope they will succeed



#39
Odinous

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So you wanna tell me that cheering up ADH lead to Relaoded buying Hawken? 

 

...

No i didn't.



#40
Aregon

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Bankruptcy. 

ADH went bankrupt, not Reloaded. That has not translated over.


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United in Diversity, Divided by Zero
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