Jump to content

Photo

Average experience in Hawken

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#1
Pixues

Pixues

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts

- start the game

- Game is stuck syncing

- alt + F4....doesn't work

- Task manager, end process

- restart the game

- get to menu

- queue for TDM, goes pretty fast

- Get in game

- one of the teams gets destroyed. 

- sit through this endless post-match screen

- screen ends

- 50% of players already left. 4 players now

- 3 players now

- 2 players now

- Leave game

- get stuck syncing

- alt + F4

- oh wait

- task manager

- end task

- come to forum

- complain

 

 

here is a tip for the devs. The post-match summery screen is unnecessarily long. But wait, if you manage to get through that, there is another screen, enough people have to press ready first before the next match can start. remove the ready button. At the very least remove it for TDM. 

 


  • CrimsonKaim, RED_FIVE and GGGanjaMan like this

#2
GGGanjaMan

GGGanjaMan

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 89 posts

Definitely agree that the post-game summary screen is unnecessarily long. Hawken has short game times to begin with (10 mins) - so being forced to just sit for basically half that time for the next game to begin doesn't make much sense.

 

This is further exacerbated when the game will often join you into an ongoing match regardless of how far progressed the match already is. So imagine ending up matched into a game with a minute or so left - you end up seeing no combat, game ends, and now you have to wait another ~5mins before the next match begins. It explains why a lot of casuals just hop from one match to another ongoing one, and why servers often end up dying out after 1 game played - people don't want to stare at summary screens and ready-up screens for 5 mins to get 10 mins of playtime.

 

Proposed changes:

 

- Eliminate the wait time at the post-game summary screen or just have the ready up option there to launch the next game (at game launch, there is already a further half-a-minute buffer time for match to start) so no need for all the wait times beforehand.

 

- Have matchmaking prevent players from entering an ongoing match after say half the game timer has already passed. Since matchmaking only balances the teams at the ready-up screen at the very start, this can also help with balancing issues.

 

- Prevent players that leave an ongoing match from being able to join/play another match until the one they left finishes.

 

Personally, I feel like players shouldn't be able to enter an ongoing match at all to keep balancing. Do LOL or CS allow players to join ongoing games already started, with no regards to balancing of those entering players? Of course not, because that would be ridiculous. But that's what matchmaking does in this game. Why?

 

If you're going to allow players to enter ongoing matches, you're going to have to redesign your matchmaking algorithms to adjust for that each time (which it currently does not do… and anyway who wants to keep having teams shuffled around in an ongoing match every time a player joins/leaves?) My suggestion is to just keep people trying to join in a queue and connect them through before the next game begins. Or if you ever get spectator mode (which you should), entering players can spectate until the next game begins. This should help with a lot of the server hopping that goes on.


  • DieselCat, DM30 and LoC_TR like this

#3
LobsterBox

LobsterBox

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts

I've never had any of the problems in the OP.



#4
kasei

kasei

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 100 posts
I've had all of the problems in the OP.

#5
StubbornPuppet

StubbornPuppet

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1508 posts

Before a bunch of folks jump to a conclusion about the post/pre-game wait time, try to consider/remember WHY it is there.

 

This time exists to allow you to go to the garage and make changes to your mechs before playing the match (since you cannot change the internals, items, paint, etc. while a match is in progress).

 

Also, the "Ready" feature allows players the opportunity to control how many players are in the lobby when the match begins.

I would personally much rather wait around a few minutes, send some invites, and wait for a mostly full match before the game starts.

 

The auto-balancer in Hawken actually works very well when you start a match with a mostly full lobby of players.  Matches where players are in a hurry to get started and ready up with only 4-6 players are the ones that turn into imbalanced ones.

 

The auto-balancer will create original teams of the 4-6 players that are well balanced, but when a new player wants to join the match, the auto-balance does exactly what it ought to do: it first puts the incoming player on the team that is short a player, then on the team that is losing.  And that is exactly how it has to be.  So, when you start a match without a mostly full lobby, you are simply asking for an imbalanced game - you have no control over the skill level of the next player to join in (and that, too, is how it should be) and if you have one team who is short a player getting the highest ranked player in the match... that's how the cookie crumbles.

 

So, in short, be careful what you wish for.


  • bacon_avenger, IareDave, nokari and 2 others like this

To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#6
hestoned

hestoned

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 252 posts

just allow us to customize our mechs during games, boom problem solved. make the end game screen like 15 secs MAXIMUM but preferably less. and shorten the wait time for after everyone readys and joins the map. what is it like 45 secs before the walls come down in a siege game?


  • WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW and gopherAnime like this

#7
LaurenEmily

LaurenEmily

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 892 posts

Imagine how much of this mess would go away if we had 1000's of players online at any given time..

I dare to say that 99.9% of these balance/wait time problems could be solved with a bigger playerbase.

Have a nice day.


CdbY2zw.gifRjGv7Ax.gif

D8mfrr9.png


#8
kasei

kasei

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 100 posts

This time exists to allow you to go to the garage and make changes to your mechs before playing the match (since you cannot change the internals, items, paint, etc. while a match is in progress).


That's where I disagree. If you need time to adjust your mech, do that outside of a match lobby. If you need a break, then leave and come back later.

 

Also, the "Ready" feature allows players the opportunity to control how many players are in the lobby when the match begins.
I would personally much rather wait around a few minutes, send some invites, and wait for a mostly full match before the game starts.


That's another point where I disagree. The purpose of the ready screen should be to indicate that the player is ready to play. Not that the match has met some arbitrary requirements. I do understand that the Ready screen is used that way because the game doesn't have robust matchmaking options.

My main gripe is with the post-match screen. It's too damn long. I alt-tab to something else every time. The post-match screen should be replaced by a match log, where I can view the stats later if I want to. Yeah, I know the winner animations are where people can show off their cosmetics. Do it at the next Ready screen then.

#9
StubbornPuppet

StubbornPuppet

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1508 posts

^Sure, but maybe I'm not "ready" to play until the lobby is full.

 

And, "no", I shouldn't have to quit out of a lobby I'm enjoying to make changes to my mech.


  • IareDave and -Tj- like this

To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#10
Broham78

Broham78

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 124 posts
Wait time can be annoying but it's good for chatting and mech changes in the garage. I just hate when everybody leaves after a well balanced match.

 wGoUz2B.gif


#11
Nept

Nept

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 939 posts

The original developers included that wait time between matches so that players could take a break (washroom, food, water, etc.).  Don't agree with the decision myself, but there's the intent.


  • OdinTheWise likes this

#12
OdinTheWise

OdinTheWise

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 547 posts

The original developers included that wait time between matches so that players could take a break (washroom, food, water, etc.).  Don't agree with the decision myself, but there's the intent.

i would have to agree. if you are taking a break, you can go to the lobby 


We Can Dance If We Want To     

 

 OTWsig2.jpg

ES3lMRu.png?1


#13
Nept

Nept

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 939 posts

Or just get a shitbucket.



#14
Rainbow_Sheep

Rainbow_Sheep

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 658 posts

Definitely agree that the post-game summary screen is unnecessarily long. Hawken has short game times to begin with (10 mins) - so being forced to just sit for basically half that time for the next game to begin doesn't make much sense.

 

Since when is one minute half of ten minutes?


  • zupsero likes this

Spoiler

#15
nokari

nokari

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 129 posts

Since when is one minute half of ten minutes?

 

I think he means the average time it takes for the end of a match to go through the timer, load the next map, wait for people to ready up, then wait for the timer to start the next match ends and you can actually start playing. It's a 1:30 minutes wait at least, if the syncing to the next map is fairly quick and enough people ready up within 10 seconds. Typically the wait is more than that though. If syncing is slow and people take their time readying up, it can easily be 5 minutes total between the end of one match and the start of the next.


Edited by nokari, 02 April 2015 - 11:48 PM.

  • GGGanjaMan likes this

hwk_sig_by_nokari-d8mkch4.png


#16
nokari

nokari

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 129 posts

- start the game

- Game is stuck syncing

- alt + F4....doesn't work

- Task manager, end process

- restart the game

- get to menu

- queue for TDM, goes pretty fast

- Get in game

- one of the teams gets destroyed. 

- sit through this endless post-match screen

- screen ends

- 50% of players already left. 4 players now

- 3 players now

- 2 players now

- Leave game

- get stuck syncing

- alt + F4

- oh wait

- task manager

- end task

- come to forum

- complain

In no way is that an average experience. The vast majority of people here do not have hanging sync issues as soon as they start up and have to force quit the app every time. That's a rare case.

 


hwk_sig_by_nokari-d8mkch4.png


#17
zupsero

zupsero

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 14 posts

i dont have any problems with the game techincally.. And tbh i dont mind the time inbetween games.

Every now and then i cant connect to some servers but other than that my experience is perfectly fine. Only thing for me is, i see the same players on EU everyday and they are just way better than me, thastwhy i would love a playerbase in 10k's.. but i think i have to get my butt whooped until i whoop butt :D


Edited by zupsero, 03 April 2015 - 12:20 AM.


#18
gopherAnime

gopherAnime

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts

Sync isn't fast, but it never stalls long. I had all the other problems from op before.

 

For me queuing for any match could be 2-3 minutes, end up alone in a queue list forever, check servers & there's a lot available, check hide empty/disable servers, join one, cannot join this server (tell me why?), try another, 4th try's a charm and get in.

But... around half the joins are < 2 minutes before match end. Actually I don't mind this as much, since I have enough matches where after all the syncing wait, I join in time for the scoreboard. :teehee:

 

Often next match starts with 4 players readied, 1 goes offline, 1v2 for 4 minutes (guess the score), then it grows to 5v4 4 minutes, last 2 minutes maybe 1~3 will join or not. I don't mind this either as it's common for low population game. People want to start playing asap. I'd prefer all the wait time removed. Allow garage change on the first deployment (you get ~3 minutes till blue wall falls & idle auto kicks you out). Any longer then you should really change in lobby instead of occupying a seat someone else could be playing in.

 

Solution for the current 2~5 minute wait between matches... GO WATCH ANIME.



#19
kasei

kasei

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 100 posts

^Sure, but maybe I'm not "ready" to play until the lobby is full.


You missed my entire point, that should be decided by match matching options, which don't currently exists.

#20
GGGanjaMan

GGGanjaMan

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 89 posts

Since when is one minute half of ten minutes?

 

Nokari seems to have already responded to your question, so I won't have to repeat what he said.

 

If you want to be pedantic about it, take a stopwatch and start timing from when you can no longer engage in combat from a prior game (last-kill/victor screen) to before you can start combat in the next game (after walls come down in buffer time of next game). The avg wait time will usually be 5 mins (+/- a cpl mins depending on your region/time being played etc.) When you've played like a thousand games, you're used to alt-tabbing out for that down-time and you can guess pretty well how long it is.

 

For those that want to change items/internals etc, the game should simply allow you to customize while in game as well. There is no need to make others suffer waiting even longer for 1 or 2, no?


Edited by GGGanjaMan, 03 April 2015 - 01:18 PM.


#21
OmegaNull

OmegaNull

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 458 posts

- start the game

- Game is stuck syncing

- alt + F4....doesn't work

- Task manager, end process

- restart the game

- get to menu

- queue for TDM, goes pretty fast

- Get in game

- one of the teams gets destroyed. 

- sit through this endless post-match screen

- screen ends

- 50% of players already left. 4 players now

- 3 players now

- 2 players now

- Leave game

- get stuck syncing

- alt + F4

- oh wait

- task manager

- end task

- come to forum

- complain

 

 

here is a tip for the devs. The post-match summery screen is unnecessarily long. But wait, if you manage to get through that, there is another screen, enough people have to press ready first before the next match can start. remove the ready button. At the very least remove it for TDM. 

I am agree with some of the things you say but where you have to constantly quite your game is not what everyone experiences. I recently had some issues with my Hawken install and had to reset the ini files (delete the Hawken folder from my games) and setup things again. I then deleted and redownloaded Hawken. All my issues have been resolved.

 

What issues were I having?

Not able to capture the game client with OBS for streaming and recording.

Issues were my game would suddenly stutter and get horrible frame rates.

Sound wasn't working sometimes. 

Syncing problems. 


Scootin' 'n Shoot | Bawlin' 'n Brawlin' | Ragin' 'n Raidin'

ca62ab9a-2ce9-4a20-b368-0cde03b1331d.png

"Velocitas et Eradico"


#22
moosa17

moosa17

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 50 posts

Game is stuck syncing

 

This is the worst of the things you've mentioned. I've sat waiting for 10 minutes at a time before with this on my screen. Sometimes it would finally go through. Sometimes it would crash to desktop. 

Ignoring this issue (or if it were eliminated, plz devs), I love how damn quick and easy it is to get into action after launching Hawken. It's wonderful.

The time between matches is not that bad, assuming everyone doesn't leave or fail to ready up and you don't have sync issues. There's just an ADD effect there due to the highly stimulating experience. Take a moment to go check on something else post-match and you'll be shocked how fast it goes by. (It's healthy to take breaks by the way.)



#23
Odra

Odra

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 17 posts

I tend to always leave as soon as the match is done, tend to hop around game modes.

 

If I remember correctly there was a bind to disconnect as soon as the match was over.


cj19DGF.jpg

"Less Pew Pew; More EU!"


#24
GGGanjaMan

GGGanjaMan

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 89 posts

The time between matches is not that bad, assuming everyone doesn't leave or fail to ready up and you don't have sync issues. There's just an ADD effect there due to the highly stimulating experience. Take a moment to go check on something else post-match and you'll be shocked how fast it goes by. (It's healthy to take breaks by the way.)

 

Look everyone seems to say breaks are healthy and that it was intended by the original devs. I have nothing against the breaks themselves, but when taken into context against the typical length of a TDM (the most-played?) match, which lasts 10 mins or 40 kills, does the length of down-time envisioned by the devs make sense?

 

This waiting time would be completely fine if the length of the games in TDM were increased (maybe 15-20 mins instead of 10? & up to 60 kills?). But 10 mins (or less usually) of playtime for then 5 mins of downtime just doesn't make sense to me. Shorten that wait time if you want to keep game lengths the same!



#25
nokari

nokari

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 129 posts

Look everyone seems to say breaks are healthy and that it was intended by the original devs. I have nothing against the breaks themselves, but when taken into context against the typical length of a TDM (the most-played?) match, which lasts 10 mins or 40 kills, does the length of down-time envisioned by the devs make sense?

 

IIRC, I believe their official response was that they provide so much information in those 4 tabs that they wanted to give people enough time to review it all before the next match. But realistically, they should have cut at least 10 seconds off the time, because most of us really don't need that much time to look. The fact that it gives people a chance to take a break for health reasons is either unintentionally or a secondary reason.


Edited by nokari, 03 April 2015 - 07:28 PM.

hwk_sig_by_nokari-d8mkch4.png





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users