Jump to content

Photo

Rocketeering Advise

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
28 replies to this topic

#1
Arkenbrien

Arkenbrien

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 13 posts

Hello,

 

There doesn't seem to be a n00b section, so I'm placing this here.

 

As you can see from my sig, my connection is beyond pathetic. Just keep that in mind. Trust me, I'd love to have a better connection, but that is simply impossible until perhaps this fall.

 

I maxed out my standard issue assault to rank 6. At the end of that period, before I switched to my shiny new Rocketeer, I was usually able to get a positive K/D ratio, a couple kill streaks, tons of assists, 4-600+ HC per game, score of ~120 per game, etc. In short, I was doing phenomenally well, all things considered. Because of my bad ping, the tow rocket was basically useless, making me rely solely on the SMC/Vulcan. (Although the only multi-kills I got was with the tow). All this with a ping of 700ms.

 

I was all pumped up about moving to the awesome-looking Rocketeer. I finally found some time to really play it just this last night. This was mainly because it seemed like the Rocketeer will solve my ping problems, by having some auto-aim assist from the missile spam I was planning to lay down.

 

I performed quite badly at first. I mean, really badly. No problem, just getting used to it. The problem was, I kept getting worse. At the end of my embarrassing 2.5 hour session, my best tactic was to not drag the team down and hide somewhere. My K/D ratio was consistently a flat 0, because I wasn't getting any kills, and when I did get a kill, it was usually the only one for the game. I was only able to scratch together a mere handful of assists. Score never peaked over 50, and I was lucky to have more than 200 HC. It was depressing.

 

Here are some of the problems I encountered. The primary acted to me like a automatic tow rocket: the projectiles were painfully slow and easily dodged. Accuracy? I had better accuracy on my first game spraying and praying with the smc with 700ms lag. The secondary was also lack-luster. The hell fires seemed to happily plow themselves into any teeny tiny obstacle they could find. When I did manage to land a hit with either weapon, the damage was simply lacking. The result was that every single fight I got into, the enemy would either stand there and take it, dealing more damage to me with whatever weapon they had, out tanking me, or simply dodge everything. It's really easy. This is compounded by the fact that I was quite the escape artists with my assault, but with the heavier frame, I usually just gave up and let them kill me sometimes. They're faster with more firepower. So what if I live for .1 seconds longer.

 

So, that sounded like a rant, and maybe it is. I'm pretty frustrated over tonight. But I'm okay. Not angry. Just a game I like and want to be better at.

 

What I want to know is, besides my hideous ISP, what am I missing from the Rocketeer?

Is there some special tactic I'm missing? 

Do I have to be 'locked on' to a target for my primary to work?

How accurate should I be in my aim (primary)? Lead or follow target?

When to use secondary?

Turret is useful when?

What items/internals should I slowly grind for?

Is the damage even comparable to other weapons, or is it heavily underpowered because of the lock ons?

 

That's all for now. That's enough noob whining for now... :sad: :ermm:

 

EDIT: Actually, according to my stats, my K/D in my Rocket is better than my assault. That may mean that I'm actually doing better K/D wise, or that the assault was heavily affected by my first few games ( I caught on quick). Maybe the last few games I played (which sucked) left the biggest impression on me. Maybe I'm over reacting. Maybe I should stop typing and go to bed...


Edited by Arkenbrien, 28 May 2015 - 11:09 PM.

:yes: :yes: Ping never below 680ms. :yes: :yes:


#2
reVelske

reVelske

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 229 posts

I find Rocketeer to be quite alright and very accommodating for high ping players (I'm playing with 200ms), and it has the 2nd highest K/D in my arsenal. Your main issue is really just that 700ms ping, which IMHO is completely unrealistic to be played on for a FPS. Can you really not just switch ISP? Where are you from anyways? SEA? South America? Those are the two places I constantly hear stories about these guttertrash high ping ISPs.



#3
Grollourdo

Grollourdo

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 907 posts
Lol well... I agree with the guy above me, also yeah the rocketeer is a suppression much using homing to its advantage.

So take it to your advantage, if there is an obstacle, try to shoot in a direction so it doesn't hit the obstacle, it is also good in choke points, since you can't really miss or anything... (Most cases)

For the ping, I don't know how to help you, my ping usually sux too...
  • Arkenbrien likes this

 (\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy bunny into
 (") (") your signature to help him gain world domination XD

 

And if you dont .... 

 

bloody_keyboard.gif    <-------------- ME and Bunny
 
 
(This is also me when u no cooperate in game XD)

#4
kasei

kasei

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 100 posts
At its core the Rocketeer is made to get more assists than kills, don't be surprised by that. As long as you're playing team death match, keeping your distance and getting assists is a perfectly fine way to play.

If I were you I'd grab the EOC Repeater, stay on your team's rear, and lay mines anywhere there's a fight. I assume you have more than decent anticipation skills having regularly played with ping that high. Use that your advantage by laying mines where you think people will go. You'll never have a direct fight this way, but you should be able to get some more assists.

As for using Hellfires, after locking on, aim really wide. Like you said, they can get caught on all sorts of little things. Also, considering your ping, your target is most likely somewhere else by the time you fire them, and your Hellfires will fly straight into a wall if you don't compensate for it.

Good luck :)
  • Arkenbrien likes this

#5
reVelske

reVelske

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 229 posts

I personally prefer aiming Hellfires straight up in most cases, works pretty well.

 

and EOC is the only realistic weapon for him to use at that ping. Seekers are completely useless, Heat Cannon works beautifully but not with 700ms I'd imagine, the fact that you can fire and forget with EOC makes it the ideal weapon for high ping players.


  • Arkenbrien likes this

#6
Silverfire

Silverfire

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1421 posts
Check links in my Sig out for a few guides
  • Arkenbrien likes this

lNM7VnC.png

( ^ click for the EMP song ^ )

 

Come take a look at Hawken guides | Join me on #hawkenscrim IRC

 

 


#7
PoopSlinger

PoopSlinger

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 588 posts

Rocketeer has Heat Cannon, which could be fun and useful to learn.  Not sure how well it works with super-ping, but it can hit those fast mechs better than seeker missles.


Edited by PoopSlinger, 29 May 2015 - 04:28 AM.

  • Arkenbrien likes this

khn3gAi.jpg?1CitkI9t.jpgGkp2fB7.jpg

Come on Crafty, you have been officially called out on your lies. Your online reputation is at stake here, this is just like an old school street race running for pink slips. Its run what you brung and hope its enough. Put up or shut the fuzzy bunny up.


#8
-Tj-

-Tj-

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 285 posts

I'm no Rocketeer expert, but I find the Seekers and Hellfires rather fun to use if you don't rely too heavily on their tracking ability. Both have a moderate amount of splash, so if you're squaring off against an opponent up close, try to lead your opponent and hit them with the Seekers and dumbfired Hellfires. Their relatively slow speed means you have to lead quite a bit, but the splash can make up for some of that, especially with the Hellfires' decently-large cluster splash radius. Make sure you're either firing down at your opponent from a higher vantage point, or flying. Meanwhile, try to minimize your flight time. While it means you get a better view of the terrain and where the enemies are (and better accuracy for splash while shooting downward), it also means you're an enormous, slow-moving airborne target. For distant targets, fly a bit to get a lock on something, and either shoot your Hellfires straight up within the lock time window, or to the sides if you're trying to get someone around a corner. Air Compressor really helps in a lot of tight spots, allowing you to fly up and around a corner, get a lock, air dodge back behind cover, and fire the now-locked missiles around said corner. Don't rely too much on Seekers seeking unless your target is running away from you, or you have a reasonable amount of distance between yourself and the target, because they don't really lock unless your reticle is over the target when you fire.

 

That said, like those above me have already stated, EOC Repeater or HEAT Cannon are better options than the Seeker. It'll take a bit of practice to get used to the whole hold-trigger-but-press-MMB-then-fire-Hellfires-and-EOC/HEAT thing, but it's a bit deadlier than the Seekers are, and more reliable.


  • talon70 and Arkenbrien like this

#9
Miscellaneous

Miscellaneous

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 401 posts

Seeker does what it says on the tin - it seeks stuff, but only if you're aiming at them. Rocketeer cannot survive in close-distance battles as well as the Assault can - so make sure to keep your distance. Use the lock on feature of the hellfires to obtain most hits, and make sure you have your crosshair pointed at people when using the seeker so that it knows who to follow. You should never really be firing the Hellfires untargeted, as they'll miss everything and everything.

 

Also, rocketeer has great air mobility for a C-class. Use that, but don't rely on it.


Edited by (KDR) Miscellaneous, 29 May 2015 - 04:34 AM.

  • Arkenbrien likes this

KOBALT DEFENCE REGIMENT

...and let slip the dogs of war...

Twitter%201.jpg?psid=1Steam%202.jpg?psid=1Tube%203.jpg?psid=1Hawken%204.jpg?psid=1Twitch%205.jpg?psid=1

Spoiler

#10
Arkenbrien

Arkenbrien

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 13 posts

Thanks, everybody.
 

My tactics originally, as was with the assault, was front line carnage: Cheaaaaaarge! I applied that to the Rocketeer. After bad results, I resorted to long range suppression, but I had dodging issues. So mid range here I come.

 

It's also comforting to know that getting kills isn't as expected in a rocket. :)


Edited by Arkenbrien, 29 May 2015 - 05:03 AM.

:yes: :yes: Ping never below 680ms. :yes: :yes:


#11
Amidatelion

Amidatelion

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2474 posts

Your Seeker is going to be useless at high ping, switch to EOC as soon as your can for persistent mines and then Heat for something that'll let you do reliable AOE damage at range. Fair warning, though, its one of the harder weapons to learn.

 

Hellfires are garbage, but in terms of whittling people down from range, they're pretty decent. Focus on A-classes, especially low ones. Once you learn how to arc the hellfires properly, you'll be able to pick them off from behind cover.

 

As to the air mobility, don't hold spacebar, especially if you're high ping. It just makes you a target. Use it to gain a momentary advantage, lock on an fire, then drop into cover. 


  • Arkenbrien likes this

#12
dorobo

dorobo

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 990 posts

700 ping.. I would uninstall and go outside  to run naked in the rain instead.

 

13219f8eaeef5876898eeb4013193e3274067931


Edited by dorobo, 29 May 2015 - 05:46 AM.

  • coldform, CrimsonKaim, EM1O and 1 other like this

#13
EM1O

EM1O

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 764 posts

for those that asked: he's out in the sticks in the northern U.S. midwest on a satellite uplink.

i agree (among the suggestions made) on the EOC as soon as you can hits are fine, misses become stompy-booms.

and this may be the best RECOMMENDATION:

as for fretting about the kdr/mmr/eieio, spend a few days in Coop TDM, you only get 1/4-1/3 of the XP/HC, but you get fumble around and get the hang of Rocketeer without destroying your kdr/mmr (they're not calculated in Coop games) or "embarrassing" yourself. nobody cares in bots-tdm, really.

enjoy!


Edited by em1o, 29 May 2015 - 06:03 AM.

  • Arkenbrien likes this

#:  chown -R us ./base

nRJ1C9n.png

"...oh great Itzamna, you shall know Us by the trail of Dead."


#14
Source_Mystic

Source_Mystic

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 147 posts

rocketeer is a Noob mech meaning if you are higher tier do not even bother this is because hellfire are in a really bad place rIght now making any meck that uses them garbage they they are nerfed into oblivion making them useless go incinerator or grenadier.ROCKETEER IS GOING TO BE  USELESS  WITHOUT  team support.


Edited by Source_Mystic, 30 May 2015 - 05:22 AM.


#15
reVelske

reVelske

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 229 posts

Did you even read the thread?



#16
coldform

coldform

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1100 posts
Where exactly are located? Im willing to wager that there is a radio based broadband provider in your area, and probably at the same price you pay for satellite access.

Some of the rural area s here in Arizona have decent airband access, yet still only have standpipe water service.

I like going against the best of any game I play. Helps you in the long run n motivates u to do more. Always room for improvement not failure

z6aJAX7.png?1

 

czerofive-Today at 2:22 AM > got banned from playing lazertag - I used a knife to conserve ammo

FIRST OFF WHAT THE FUZZ IS A "SHILL"


#17
Source_Mystic

Source_Mystic

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 147 posts

Most  do not realize one thing as long as you solo with any mech with out tactics you will loose. The irony  is there is mech synergy's  that are not used at all except tech + incinerator tech = Any c class. what a limited view.


Edited by Source_Mystic, 29 May 2015 - 07:35 AM.

  • dorobo likes this

#18
Panzermanathod

Panzermanathod

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 711 posts

Personally, I stuck with Seekers. But high ping would make the EOC a better choice. I don't stick with Seekers for damage, I know they do little of it. But as a mech of its type it's reasonable enough.

 

 the irony  is there is mech synergy's but with out team work nothing will happen.

 

That's not irony. That's literally the opposite of irony.



#19
Flifang

Flifang

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 478 posts

If you think that is the only mech combo with synergy you probably haven't faced a reaper and a G2 assault together. If the reaper is using the RPR you're dead and they're both competent you're done for. The same can be said for a raider pred duo. Had a few matches where me and LilBlackRainCloud wombo-combo'd everyone unfortunate enough to come close to us.

 

Rocketeer at that ping is a chokepoint holder. If you want to use heat cannon you need to fully charge it. If you use eoc you want a height advantage. The seeker requires enough aim for it to track at that point you need to use it as a mini-tow and just fire where the enemy will likely move to. Use your hellfires like a wall of damage down hallways and other openings.


Edited by Flifang, 29 May 2015 - 10:32 AM.


#20
EM1O

EM1O

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 764 posts

Most  do not realize one thing as long as you solo with any mech with out tactics you will loose. The irony  is there is mech synergy's  that are not used at all except tech + incinerator tech = Any c class. what a limited view.

that is NOT what this thread is about. he has a nearly 1000 ping. tactics are useless if he is unable to get hits.

he needs help on high-ping with a viable mech usable on an average ping of 680ms, which will give him a decent hit count.

read the thread!


  • dorobo likes this

#:  chown -R us ./base

nRJ1C9n.png

"...oh great Itzamna, you shall know Us by the trail of Dead."


#21
EM1O

EM1O

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 764 posts

 

13219f8eaeef5876898eeb4013193e3274067931

   ^--<< When I have a really bad night in Co-op Bot Destruct.  riot!!! :D


  • dorobo and AngryOgre like this

#:  chown -R us ./base

nRJ1C9n.png

"...oh great Itzamna, you shall know Us by the trail of Dead."


#22
Source_Mystic

Source_Mystic

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 147 posts

that is NOT what this thread is about. he has a nearly 1000 ping. tactics are useless if he is unable to get hits.

he needs help on high-ping with a viable mech usable on an average ping of 680ms, which will give him a decent hit count.

read the thread!

 

1OOO PING IS UNPLAYABLE ... WHY BOTHER



#23
Source_Mystic

Source_Mystic

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 147 posts

If you think that is the only mech combo with synergy you probably haven't faced a reaper and a G2 assault together. If the reaper is using the RPR you're dead and they're both competent you're done for. The same can be said for a raider pred duo. Had a few matches where me and LilBlackRainCloud wombo-combo'd everyone unfortunate enough to come close to us.

 

Rocketeer at that ping is a chokepoint holder. If you want to use heat cannon you need to fully charge it. If you use eoc you want a height advantage. The seeker requires enough aim for it to track at that point you need to use it as a mini-tow and just fire where the enemy will likely move to. Use your hellfires like a wall of damage down hallways and other openings.

 

 

i WAS NOT SAYING THAT WAS THE ONLY SYNERGY'S ...... What i was saying is that people only see the obvious ones and do not think of hawaken  as a tactical game  .. which is sad because if we had working voip in game that in itself would improve game.... lack of team work is the number one problem and that comes from another problem a lack of ability for everyone to communicate quickly and efficiently with there team and typing is half ass in the middle of battle


Edited by Source_Mystic, 30 May 2015 - 05:32 AM.


#24
reVelske

reVelske

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 229 posts

You could've said that in the beginning if you bothered to read any of the posts at all.

 

Either way, if he's enjoying himself, then let it be. Seems like he's able to cope with it and I'm sure he would've switched connectivity if he could.

 

And communication is largely unnecessary in pubbie TDM, watch each others' back, be aware of your surrounding are keep eye on minimap are all that's required.


Edited by reVelske, 30 May 2015 - 05:33 AM.


#25
Source_Mystic

Source_Mystic

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 147 posts

Personally, I stuck with Seekers. But high ping would make the EOC a better choice. I don't stick with Seekers for damage, I know they do little of it. But as a mech of its type it's reasonable enough.

 

 

That's not irony. That's literally the opposite of irony.

 

 

ironic : happening in the opposite way to what is expected. It is like having a hammer and choosing a rock instead to nail a nail into a piece of wood. People drive  mecks like they all are the same and they are not. most player are not tactical as tactical as it gets is one team staying in a group and focusing fire this is the exact opposite of how it should be.



#26
Meraple

Meraple

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 576 posts

On the topic of synergy:

While mech synergy is important, player synergy is important as well - this is shown very clearly when pocket Teching someone with a radically different playstyle than you're used to.

 

As for the OP, I'd reccomend getting the EOC R on Predator.

I'm not even sure if Hellfires are useful by any means with that PING.


  • Kopra likes this

#27
Arkenbrien

Arkenbrien

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 13 posts

Thanks all for the replies. Thanks to these and the guides, I was able to up my game.

 

I'm usually able to do at least as well if not better than I did on the assault.

 

I usually get ~4 kills per game, 10 assists or more. K/D around .75. Maybe a double/triple kill. It's all about positioning, situational awareness, and escape tactics. Flanking also helps a lot, as the target is usually moving one dimensionally.

 

I'm not 100% sure on how to use the seekers yet. The lock on works when the reticule is directed on an enemy. I'm not sure if that is server or client side. If anybody could tell me that would be great.


:yes: :yes: Ping never below 680ms. :yes: :yes:


#28
Kopra

Kopra

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 520 posts

I can't confirm the following entirely, as I had only tested its tracking briefly and only on an A-class opponent at around 60 ping.

It appeared that the radius for the seeking to activate extended about half times over the actual hitbox. So instead of 4 meter wide hitbox you'd be hitting a 6 meter wide one.

 

A question that is still open is whether the Seeker's tracking is server or client side, but afaik every other weapon operates server side (only the tracers are client side when you shoot) so it's fair to assume that so does the Seeker.

 

It's great for slightly bad ping but at 700ms you're really better off fullfilling suppression duties and staying as much out of harm's way as possible. Spam mines, get assists, deny a chokepoint with spam, use support items, etc. As Meraple said, the EOC Predator is a possibility that you should explore should you get sick of the Rocketeer. Rev-GL Grenadier, M4MA-Incinerator and Technician are also mechs that can be worked with at a super high ping. So, suppression and zoning should be your game. It isn't the most rewarding role (points wise at least) so it's up to you to determine if it's effective or not.



#29
Exomedia

Exomedia

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 34 posts

All of the rocketeer's weapons are projectile based, please lead your shots

 

Your objective is damage distribution and suppression not combat, keep your distance and carpet bomb your enemies, spread that damage around so your team can mop them up

 

You are slow and defenseless alone, avoid direct confrontations if possible when alone, if with team mate, back up and provide fire support

 

Shooting or boosting will reveal your position, since you are a big target, getting spotted before you can attack can be inconvenient.

 

If you are unnoticed in a fire fight, always try for the high ground preferably with a piece of cover to retreat to before opening fire and revealing your position. Hold your fire and WALK to a good firing position, your patience in stealth will be rewarded with clear fire zones and unaware targets.

 

You have a generous fuel tank, if you need to, take off for a temporary height advantage. WARNING: you are big and slow in the air, if you must fly, minimize flight time to minimize exposure to enemy retaliation

 

You hellfires are quite complicated and need practice to use effectively since they are not very damaging and are not subtle weapons since targets will be aware when they are locked on.

 

There is a shooting technique called arcing; after a lock on, flick your mouse quickly in a different direction before shooting; by shooting at a wide angle to flank your target, the missiles can possibly hit enemies behind cover.

 

You dont have to lock on to fire your hellfires, shooting without lock on (dumbfiring) is like a rocket shotgun. While you should almost always lock on before you fire, dumbfiring can be effective against a tight enemy cluster or ward off a would be ambusher and retreat. It is also effective for corner poking in tight quarters.

 

Target priority with hellfires is important, kill techs and light mechs first and since hellfires have good anti-air functionality prioritize flyers as well to kee your enemies grounded.

 

Just because you have a lock on does not mean you have to shoot. When some one is locked on they will recieve a notification that they are locked on or have missiles incoming.

When locked on most players tend to instinctively fight more conservatively or retreat to avoid your missiles, use this to your advantage in a fight or help manage your heat; if a locked on enemy retreats before you fire, that's heat conserved, if he does not back down, fire untill he backs off or a more important target appears.


Edited by Exomedia, 30 May 2015 - 11:55 AM.

  • AngryOgre likes this

Ya'll giddy up now.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users