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#1
Morquedeas

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So I am a somewhat higher level play, I'm sure some of you recognize me, and I main Raider.  Despite the time I put into Raider, I'd still like to hear peoples opinions on some things, especially from players who are better and have been playing longer than I.

 

First topic, Tbolt vs Reflak.  I'm sure this topic has been picked over before but I'm still gonna ask.  While I definitely prefer the tbolt because I like maximizing my burst and corner play effectiveness, lately I've found using the tbolt a bit maddening.  Even at close ranges I feel like I'm not doing full damage, especially against a class mechs who seem to be smaller than the spread of the gun and never take full damage.  Theoretically 5 shots from the tbolt should be more than enough to kill any A class, but this definitely never happens.  Basically my whole reason for switching to the reflak would be that it is more consistent.  Am I the only one who feels this way?

 

Secondly, I'm mildly curious what people take as internals for raider, and their reasons for doing so.  I almost always run with the 2 slot deflector and 1 slot fuel converter and toy with the other 3 slots.  I've heard that the 2 slot fuel converter is absolutely necessary but I think I'd need some convincing.  Right now I'm trying armor fusors, but I'm not sure Raider has the hp to really benefit from them.  I also try to avoid the extractors.

 

Fire away guys, I look forward to seeing people preferences and especially the reasoning behind them.


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#2
HOHOHOSANTA

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I like t32 better than reflak despite reflak being able to shoot off faster and the bullets can ricochet off walls incase they are around something. In terms of its ability being bursty Id say keep t32 bolt. Its more effect, but maximize dmg is 2 hit with mirv. on A class, its basically like a powershot+sabo combo but on raider. In terms of internal I feel the best for raider would be PowerSurge for sure, Deflector, Armor fusor.



#3
spinningchurro

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Here's my setup.  Keep in mind I haven't changed internals since I got the raider which was a long time ago.

 

Internals: Replenisher, Fuel Converter, Basic Extractor

Items: EMP Mk. II, Health Orb Mk. II

 

As soon as I got used to the T-32 Bolt, I forgot all about the reflak.  Some players can make it viable, but I never see reflak raiders.  All I can tell you is to get really close to your enemy.

 

Also last couple of days I too feel like the raider's weapons aren't doing as much damage as I feel they used to, but that's probably just me.


Edited by spinningchurro, 06 February 2016 - 05:31 PM.


#4
Hyginos

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I actually loathed the raider until I went back to the reflak. It just seems to do better at everything except corner play. The extra DPS is especially nice if you are fighting a C or a heavier B class.

 

Internals for me are usually deflectors and fuel converter in some combination, but I play around with armor fusor and air compressor. Surger and replenisher certainly have their uses but don't fit my play style personally, and the case can certainly be made for reconstructor if you play around it.

 

Extractor, repair kit, and composite armor are useful but not currently kosher in competitive play so many comp players will avoid them.


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#5
kaiserschmarrn_

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2 slot fuel converter, 2 slot deflectors, 2 slot armor fusor.



#6
HOHOHOSANTA

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raider is like infil, always suppose to stay on the ground. no aircompressor



#7
Call_Me_Ishmael

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2 slot fuel converter, 2 slot deflectors, 2 slot armor fusor.

 

agree.  Nothing is more helpless than an out of fuel Raider.


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#8
Coboxite

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#9
kaiserschmarrn_

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infil... always suppose to stay on the ground.

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#10
JackVandal

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Though i'm by no means competitive, i typically use the re-flack on open maps, where there aren't enough corners for t32, or i need the range on the reflack,  As for internals, if i'm feeling the run and gun, i run an fuser 3 slot, 2 slot deflectors, and 2 slot power converter.  When i'm feeling like flying, use the replenisher, a 2 slot health internal, either extractor OR repair, OR fuser, then the last slot is usually a fuel converter, the health regen keeps me going during a fight, and the replenisher helps get off more of the flying leaps over heads, though i find that second set usually falls flat against specific teams (Fat, or better than me by a good margin) where the replenisher doesn't pull its weight.


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#11
ThirdEyE

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Your internals are good.  1 slot fuel and 2 slot deflectors leaves you with 3 nice spots to play with, depending on map, enemy comp, and personal playstyle.  On maps with lots of verticality and/or jumppads I use AC, on more open maps I use replenisher (easy to refresh with reflak and kla spam for assists), and sometimes I use failsafe and air180 (usually with eoc).  If you're being sneaky by walking to flank often, you could try reconstructor as well, but it doesn't do anything in the middle of combat where raider usually finds itself.

 

Reflak and T32 aren't too different in terms of overall strength, but once again, depends more on map, enemy comp, and personal playstyle.  If you can consistently land the charged T32 burst, A's will often be too scared to fight you, but then again if you can consistently land reflak, you'll simply out-dps them.  In TPG I preferred reflak because it has slightly higher effective range and less spread, which is nice for playing with 80+ ping and it's more forgiving to miss a shot.

 

Good luck fellow raider :)


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#12
Morquedeas

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Lot of good ideas in here, and fast.  Thanks guys!

 

I'm definitely not a proponent for the power surger, +walk speed for 10 seconds on a kill doesn't seem great.  Maybe if it proc'd on assists and applied to boost speeds too but it doesn't.  I'm actually not a big fan of "on kill/assist" internals since they do literally nothing till after an enemy dies, especially in dm matches where kills are much less frequent, and assists don't exist.  I forgot to mention this but I'm also partial to the 1 slot reconstructor since I do spend a lot of time flanking and if you have to run far to repair in peace it often kicks in and knocks a couple seconds of the repair.  Right now I feel like I'm settling with 1 slot fuel converter (I've never run out of fuel in a fight), 2 slot deflectors, 1 slot reconstructor, and either the 2 slot repair kit or the 2 slot fusor.  Fusor provides a steady influx of hp, but if I'm dropping orbs and fighting on top of them (I hear it's not "orblording" if I don't have extractor+repair kit) repair kit would be better and actually have an effect in a 1v1.

 

As for reflak vs tbolt, most people here have outlined all the reasons why I like tbolt more than the reflak.  Problem with tbolt is if you are missing a single pellet, its worse than the reflak (charge mechanic aside).  Considering its spread this seems to happen a lot even in cqc against pesky a class mechs.  Frankly, if I'm not getting full damage from the tbolt, it's probably not worth using all the time.  Or maybe I need to change my play style to hug a class mechs enough for tbolt to not suck against them?  Maybe Reloaded will tweak the tbolt in the future to make it a bit more consistent, I know a reduction in its spread has been suggested more than a few times (and I've even had my own suggestion thread for the tbolt).  Guess I'll just try both some more.



#13
LoC_TR

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The trick with the T-bolt is ninja corner play attacks at close range, get around behind enemies and breaking their turn cap up close. My internal slots are 2 slot failsafe, 2 slot extractor, 2 slot deflectors. I really like the failsafe because it lets me KLA the ground around me so I can hit those trixy scoots, It also compliments the MIRV/Bolt combo by allowing you to be in tight with another mech, not only to increase your accuracy but to also take less self damage from your MIRV which does a substantial amount. 
 
Like others have mentioned though it all about how you play.I like to play-make and I was always looking for opportunities to open up engagements for my team which I always did by striking quickly and getting out fast, once my team draws agro again I can come in and clean up. Bolt raider is kinda like a one and done, meaning if you miss your first burst you'll have a hard time wrestling back the advantage which is why Blitz is sooo fuzzy bunnyng important.  
 
This is old footage but it a good demonstration of what's achievable with the bolt.

 


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#14
DeeRax

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T-Bolt was my fav weapon for awhile, but once I went back to re-flak, I didn't look back. If you prefer T-Bolt, you might as well go all-in and play G2R. Re-flak is way more accurate and has way better range. Difference being t-bolt is more in-your-face chaos kinda' play, and re-flak is a lil' more creeper-stalkerish. If that makes sense (Still taking advantage of cover and corners with both). I prefer creeper-stalker raider, with what little HP it has. Again, if I wanna' use the t-bolt, I just play G2 instead.

As others have said. 2 slot fuel converter, 2 slot deflectors, 2 slot armor fusor has done me well. I've also replaced the fuel converter with either power surger or even replenisher with success.


Edited by (TDM) DeeRax, 07 February 2016 - 12:28 AM.

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#15
Morquedeas

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Thanks, I'll check that out and the rest of your channel too sometime.

 

So the top two raiders use failsafe???? The mirv needs to be practically inside someone for you to take self damage... Or do people use the mortar that much?

 

Last I checked the tbolt acutally has "better" "range" according to the stats spreadsheet I found, but yeah I know tbolt is atrocious beyond medium-close range (though the reflak is only slightly less terrible at anything beyond the same range so I wouldn't consider it a selling point).

 

Someone is going to have to explain the 2 slot fuel converter to me, I've gotten by with the single slot just fine without ever having trouble.  But maybe I'm not boosting enough in fights?


Edited by Morquedeas, 07 February 2016 - 12:31 AM.


#16
DeeRax

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Thanks, I'll check that out and the rest of your channel too sometime.

 

So the top two raiders use failsafe???? The mirv needs to be practically inside someone for you to take self damage... Or do people use the mortar that much?

 
The mortar is almost always awesome. MIRV is amazing, but situational.
(IMO).


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#17
spinningchurro

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ITT I'm learning that elite raider players have a much different perspective and playstyle than I.

 

 

time to try this fuzzy bunny out



#18
Kopra

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Thanks, I'll check that out and the rest of your channel too sometime.

 

So the top two raiders use failsafe???? The mirv needs to be practically inside someone for you to take self damage... Or do people use the mortar that much?

 

Last I checked the tbolt acutally has "better" "range" according to the stats spreadsheet I found, but yeah I know tbolt is atrocious beyond medium-close range (though the reflak is only slightly less terrible at anything beyond the same range so I wouldn't consider it a selling point).

 

Someone is going to have to explain the 2 slot fuel converter to me, I've gotten by with the single slot just fine without ever having trouble.  But maybe I'm not boosting enough in fights?

 

Ideally you shouldn't be using Failsafe, for exactly that reason. MIRV's weakness of stupidly short splash radius becomes a strength at very close ranges.

The KLA mode is more versatile though, and for that reason it's on the ready more often (unless you anticipate CQC right around the corner). Finishing A-classes dancing around you on the ground is easier with the KLA, too (shoot feet, get kills). The correct juggling of modes provides more benefit than Failsafe does at 2-slots. It's ok with EOC, but even then it's not mandatory with it (a lot of power of EOC is focused on direct hits, not splash, and the KLA/MIRV juggling skill applies).

 

The 1-slot FC is enough. In fact, because of how Blitz works, having no fuel converter at all can be enough (you can replenish fuel during walking with just Blitz).

 

Here's a DPS/range graph of the shotguns versus different classes (different hitboxes). Even though T32 has technically a better falloff range, a lot of its damage is lost in the spread. T32 is great at medium range only if you like to gamble, but yet still, on average a charged T32 poke is better or comparable to a poke with Reflak, even with Reflak's spread advantage.

 

Spoiler

 


Edited by (KDR) Kopra, 07 February 2016 - 05:06 AM.

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#19
Morquedeas

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Yeah I definitely need to get used to switching between the KLA modes more frequently.  My main beef with the mortar mode is that is nearly useless against flying mechs like pesky zerks and assaults.  I also spend a lot of time flanking and I don't like to have the mortar mode ready if I come around a corner at someone.

 

As for the 2 slot fuel converter, after watching that ma match with LoC_TR, I watched the fuel gauge and noticed fuel wasn't too much of an issue, except that he would boost all the way back into a fight form spawn and be empty when he got there.  In which case the 2 slot fuel converter would allow him to regain lost fuel quickly while jumping into the midst of things.  I can't imagine it being quite as useful in tdm or dm where boosting all the time is not so wise, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

I know my playstyle is much more of a flanker than a frontliner, especially when I play raider so fuel is not such a big issue I suppose.



#20
Kopra

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Yeah I definitely need to get used to switching between the KLA modes more frequently.  My main beef with the mortar mode is that is nearly useless against flying mechs like pesky zerks and assaults.  I also spend a lot of time flanking and I don't like to have the mortar mode ready if I come around a corner at someone.

 

As for the 2 slot fuel converter, after watching that ma match with LoC_TR, I watched the fuel gauge and noticed fuel wasn't too much of an issue, except that he would boost all the way back into a fight form spawn and be empty when he got there.  In which case the 2 slot fuel converter would allow him to regain lost fuel quickly while jumping into the midst of things.  I can't imagine it being quite as useful in tdm or dm where boosting all the time is not so wise, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

I know my playstyle is much more of a flanker than a frontliner, especially when I play raider so fuel is not such a big issue I suppose.

 

It's a constant evaluation, KLA's strength lies in its combined splash radius and projectile speed; if enemies are not present on the radar, it means they are on the ground, which makes tagging with the KLA easier. Compared to a GL, a KLA is 50% faster, which makes it better at range for this purpose.

If there is a possibility of higher ground or the enemy is aware of your presence, or the enemy will definitely be at a close range, MIRV tends to work better. As the KLA is indeed harder to hit directly and against aware opponents, it's easily counterplayed at range.

 

If you consider the FC, you need to figure out three things: how much fuel you need for what reason, how much damage you will take, and what happens if you run out of fuel. With the basic fuel converter, 100 damage = 10 litres of fuel = 1 second of regenerating fuel (9.99 l/s on Raider) = 1 second of boosting (not taking into account the initial cost). Fuel converter provides no benefit if you don't take damage or you are at full fuel.

 

There is no general solution to this other than to equip the internal that suits your needs, and play on the strengths of the setup. In the situation where one boosts over to one's team, you can spend time to walk to a better position, insert items such as orbs or scramblers into convenient locations for support, or poke in as a second liner (less likely to take heavy damage). There is proved synergy between the fuel converter and the Raider, but it's always a case of supplying yourself with just enough fuel; there is no functional difference between a player boosting at 50% or a player boosting at 100% fuel as long as neither effectively run out of it.


Edited by (KDR) Kopra, 07 February 2016 - 03:26 AM.

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#21
eth0

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ITT I'm learning that elite raider players have a much different perspective and playstyle than I.

 

 

time to try this fuzzy bunny out

 

Seduced by the dark side, were they. Afraid of missing pellets in their bolt. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to sustain.


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Pubstomping is a whole different strategic discussion, however, and usually just becomes an exploration of the ethics of dumpstering randos.

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#22
MomOw

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raider are now called twix, I hope it helped a lot

 

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#23
MechFighter5e3bf9

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a t32 raider is easy to sync up with their shots cause its noise, delayed long enough to be able to react, say i dodge while he bang, i know dodge again asap in sync with bangs but reflaks abit too quick to keep an eye on its just sustain basicaly but if your not up against a pro a class you may land a charged burst or two

 

ps: i like how hallways reflect reflak down the hall when it gets packed

ps: i can alwase off myself with a reflak in entertaining ways


Edited by MechFighter5e3bf9, 08 February 2016 - 07:51 AM.


#24
MechFighter5e3bf9

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Seduced by the dark side, were they. Afraid of missing pellets in their bolt. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to sustain.

your right, only few days im all in tune with my mechs body and my mind then i hold fire propperly but most of the time i spray n pray,*cries* truth is i do alot less meth lately  its like nba player with cancer



#25
EM1O

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my 2 bits:

2shield, 2dets

power surger, evasive, fuel converter

T32 Bolt

 

speed, juice, alpha-strike, or bubbles if you get really low and some moron is YOLO-chasing you.

Speed Kills!

 

if you like ambush, with massive MIRV and slammin' sam Tbolt,

get a G2R, you'll never look back.


Edited by EM1 O, 07 February 2016 - 08:27 PM.

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