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DM Tournament Brainstorm

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#1
Merl61

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Dm is the best gamemode. None of that "teamwork" fuzzy bunny. Real, raw, Hawken. So behold! A deathmatch tournament format! There would be 3 stages. The first is a series of games where every participant is put in randomly. The total scores from all participants are added and the people with the highest cumulative scores move on. The next stage is similar to the first stage, only on a smaller scale. The same process with the scores remains. Finally, the top 5 from the second stage duke it out in a 30 min brawl to decide the 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th place. There would be no mech, item, or internal restrictions. 

 

That's just how I would do it. It's not very detailed so if you have questions feel free. Also if you think you have a better way then by all means go ahead and share. If this becomes a thing there will be prizes and I hope that all of Hawken's best come out. 

 

So what am I asking you guys to brainstorm? Share your ideas for tournament format / comments on mine. If you would like to participate let it be known. Finally, suggest prizes that would really get you excited about participation. 

 

Thanks. See you on the battlefield. 

 

Merl


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#2
crockrocket

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I would totally participate in a dm tournament, that sounds dank


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#3
OdinTheWise

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should limit item restrictions to TPG rules so that we dont have everyone orb lording


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#4
kaiserschmarrn_

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TPG rules are dumb.

 

Things we should absolutely restrict:

Repair kit

Scanner

PPA

 

Things we should probably restrict:

Berzerker

Predator

 

Things we should discuss restricting:

Extractor



#5
Merl61

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should limit item restrictions to TPG rules so that we dont have everyone orb lording

I want the unrestricted meta to come out. I want to see what the best in the game think is the best with no restrictions. Orblording, scanners, everything. Fair game. 


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#6
OdinTheWise

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merl you know know what the top players are gona use, its gona be all orb lord and scanners 

 

i think we should have unrestricted mech choice though


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#7
Merl61

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merl you know know what the top players are gona use, its gona be all orb lord and scanners 

 

i think we should have unrestricted mech choice though

It's something to consider at least. I want to see if taking off restrictions nourishes creativity or if everyone is stuck using the same stuff. 


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#8
ticklemyiguana

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EOC infil only. G2 exception active.
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#9
IareDave

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It's something to consider at least. I want to see if taking off restrictions nourishes creativity or if everyone is stuck using the same stuff. 

There's no more room left to be creative. The top players have found the best setup years ago and the meta really hasn't changed much since the buff to gamespeeds/sustain.


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#10
Merl61

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There's no more room left to be creative. The top players have found the best setup years ago and the meta really hasn't changed much since the buff to gamespeeds/sustain.

You, hest, xacius, cluster, cond0m, all run different scout/assault builds. Don't give me that. 


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#11
IareDave

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You, hest, xacius, cluster, cond0m, all run different scout/assault builds. Don't give me that.

And why is that? Because TPG has restrictions - the same restrictions you want to lift for this DM tourny.

 

Are you getting it now (hint: orblord)


Edited by IareDave, 10 October 2015 - 10:14 PM.

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#12
Merl61

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And why is that? Because TPG has restrictions - the same restrictions you want to lift for this DM tourny.

 

Are you getting it now (hint: orblord)

lol. Yeah I get your point. I guess restrictions are a must atm. 


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#13
IareDave

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lol. Yeah I get your point. I guess restrictions are a must atm. 

Yeah, I should of been more clear with my post, i was referring to you wanting to unlock the restrictions. I do agree there is some degree of customization with the current TPG ruleset, but mostly that falls down to which size deflector/fuel con and whether you want to run armor fusor or recon, and comp. armor is just silly OP.



#14
CrimsonKaim

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I would do it like this: "Survival of the fittest."

 

Everything is allowed, no rules (yes even scanners).

 

 

If you die once you are out. The cool thing about this method is that the next time, the outcome isn't clear since the last match is also influenced by luck stronger than these '3 matches to win' methods. 

So it is always cool to do the same stuff again as nothing is clear from the beginning (unlike modes like TDM ...).

 

Oh, I should have mentioned, 1v1 only (or 2v2).


Edited by FakeName, 10 October 2015 - 10:42 PM.

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#15
MomOw

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I would also like to see a naked Fred DM tournament


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#16
Kopra

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I think DM is pretty funny how you can form temporary alliances against a sandwiched opponent, or do the jackassy thing and go straight for the other opponent doing the sandwich.

 

Restrictions or not, it would be pretty funny to see this match.

 

Also, that feel when you're being chased by two opponents in DM and they completely ignore each other.

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Edited by (KDR) Kopra, 11 October 2015 - 01:34 AM.

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#17
Sp3ctrr

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How could you have a DM tourney?

 

If you're in an engagement with another pilot, the likelihood is that somebody else is going to turn up and finish you both off. 

 

 

IMO it would boil down to survival of the best scumbag-vulture.

 

If I'm missing something please do point it out.


Edited by Sp0oktre, 11 October 2015 - 01:40 AM.

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#18
crockrocket

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And why is that? Because TPG has restrictions - the same restrictions you want to lift for this DM tourny.

 

Are you getting it now (hint: orblord)

Yeah but y'all wouldn't actually need to use optimal builds until you were playing against each other. Other than that, I support a no-restrictions tourny; other than the best players a "sub-optimal" build (or for that matter "sub-optimal" mech choice) has the potential to actually be viable and catch people off guard. Yeah, anyone can do well with orblord, but if you're good at another build sub 2500 mmr it can actually be very viable. 

 

TL;DR: IMO meta only applies in the necessary sense to the cream of the crop. Why design the rules around that? I think there is actually potential for innovation at lower ranks, and a restriction free tournament promotes that.

 

 

How could you have a DM tourney?

 

If you're in an engagement with another pilot, the likelihood is that somebody else is going to turn up and finish you both off. 

 

 

This is exactly why you could have a good DM tournament. You're trying to see who is the best at that game mode. Sure, people like incitatus are better at DM (aka cleaning up as you mentioned) than other game modes. That's fine, it's a DM tournament. You aren't trying to see who's the best at the game, that's actually something that can't be quantified. 


Edited by (TDM)crockrocket, 11 October 2015 - 02:32 AM.

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#19
Dr_Freeze001

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I don't think a DM based on the current pub DM would work out. That just makes it 'who's the best at pub DM', and that'll be pretty predictable. I dunno, in my opinion DM's just boring. Team based gamemodes are interesting because it's about more than just getting score, so what you need to be thinking about is how to add an objective to DM. Keep is pvpvpv..., but do something extra. Instajib or permadeath would add some tension, but it'll still be DM. 

 

But then again, adding rules also mean adding ways to actually monitor those rules...

 

Man, I dunno. Either you go regular ol' DM or you do something completely different.


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#20
DerMax

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The problem with this format is that the outcome is too predictable. As Dave said, the meta is known, so no surprises here.

 

100% not gonna win: Raider, Bruiser, Rocketeer, G2Assault/Raider, Tech, Infil

 

Unlikely to win: Predator, Incin

 

Can possibly win: Gren, Vanguard, SS, Reaper

 

Most likely to win: Assault, Zerker, Brawler, Scout

 

If the game were better balanced, it'd be fun to see players switch mechs mid-match to counter the opponents' choice, but as it stands now, some mechs are just all-round good, with no real counter.


Edited by DerMax, 11 October 2015 - 03:35 AM.

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#21
comic_sans

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Yeah, thinking TPG rules at least or else the winner will either be an orblord assault or an orblord zerk, and at that point, who even cares whose name is on it.


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#22
kvazarsky

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Ok, I have slightly different idea:
 
Two teams - team A: all mechs allowed, except for Predator. Team B: a single Pred.
Team A can't use any internals, nor items. Team B can use everything.
 
At the begining, random player is chosen for team B.
 
Team A is hunting him. When killed, Pred's life time is noted, and player scoring kill changes team. Defeated Pred's driver switches to A.
 
If Predator kills someone, that person can't respawn to aid teammates in that round, nor spectate.
 
Game is played in DM mode, in this case working as friendly fire. A-team player killed accidently by his/her team also can't respawn in that round.
 
One player can't switch to B twice. If she/he scores kill again, new Pred is chosen randomly.
 
Game ends when last B-team player dies, or eliminates team A.
 
Longest living Predator wins.
 
 
 
A-team's number of players and maps: open to suggestions, as everything else.


#23
crockrocket

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Y

 

The problem with this format is that the outcome is too predictable. As Dave said, the meta is known, so no surprises here.

 

100% not gonna win: Raider, Bruiser, Rocketeer, G2Assault/Raider, Tech, Infil

 

Unlikely to win: Predator, Incin

 

Can possibly win: Gren, Vanguard, SS, Reaper

 

Most likely to win: Assault, Zerker, Brawler, Scout

 

If the game were better balanced, it'd be fun to see players switch mechs mid-match to counter the opponents' choice, but as it stands now, some mechs are just all-round good, with no real counter.

 

 

Yeah, thinking TPG rules at least or else the winner will either be an orblord assault or an orblord zerk, and at that point, who even cares whose name is on it.

 

Yeah but who actually gives a fuzzy bunny about the winner at this point? We know who's going to win, whether it's TPG, a 3v3, or straight up DM. Besides that "meta" is overrated for the reasons I stated earlier. The point of a no-restrictions DM would be to just see what fuzzing happens, and hell it's not TPG so who gives a fuzz if it's a little more casual as far as rules go. In that vein I would recommend doing no prizes beyond bragging rights in order to encourage creativity,


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#24
Hyginos

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I think each player should have their mech decided by their opponent prior to the match. Race to 7 or something.


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#25
Amidatelion

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Here's what I was going to run for a tournament that I straight up don't have the time energy for:

 

The Grand Melee

 

  • 3 rounds of 20-minute, 24-Man Deathmatch across Frontline, Bazaar and Last Eco. Yes, it's grueling. That's what a Grand Melee is supposed to be. Suck it up, buttercups.

  • Scores are added up at the end of each match. Placement based on highest total. Potentially based on highest average or highest of the three, but highest total allows dark horses to come into their own.

  • Add item/internal/mode restrictions as you see fit. Still distantly interested to see orb banned instead of orblord internals. Actually, in 24-man DM I'd strongly recommend banning the damn thing.

 

Go forth and slaughter, in my name.

 

EDIT: GODDAMN MOTHERFUZZING BUNNY-FUZZING BUTTMONGERS THE FUZZING BBCODE DOESN'T ALLOW UNICODE THAT FUZZING TITLE LOOKED SO BALLER


Edited by Amidatelion, 11 October 2015 - 08:27 AM.

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#26
hellc9943

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After getting killed, you have to respawn in the mech that killed you. Needs to have a fair amount of different mech types for the start, but that could be done by Hygino's suggestion or just by drawing.


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#27
Bergwein

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Why not make it a single mech type tourney?


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#28
Merl61

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Thanks for all the great suggestions guys! Keep it coming.

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#29
DieselCat

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Why not make it a single mech type tourney?

Good idea (Assault only ?)...with all mech's being totally stock. No items or internals.  Maybe 1 items ( H.E. Charge) since practically nobody uses it. Also take away the radar ? Could be interesting creating more of a level playing field.

 

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#30
PsychedelicGrass

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Remove radar and no items or internals except ac
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#31
Nept

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Why not make it an Unreal tournament?

 


Edited by Nept: Ultra Lord of the God-Kings, 11 October 2015 - 11:59 AM.

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#32
MomOw

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EOC rocketeer DM tournament  ?

 

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#33
ticklemyiguana

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Here's what I was going to run for a tournament that I straight up don't have the time energy for:

 

The Grand Melee

 

  • 3 rounds of 20-minute, 24-Man Deathmatch across Frontline, Bazaar and Last Eco. Yes, it's grueling. That's what a Grand Melee is supposed to be. Suck it up, buttercups.

  • Scores are added up at the end of each match. Placement based on highest total. Potentially based on highest average or highest of the three, but highest total allows dark horses to come into their own.

  • Add item/internal/mode restrictions as you see fit. Still distantly interested to see orb banned instead of orblord internals. Actually, in 24-man DM I'd strongly recommend banning the damn thing.

 

Go forth and slaughter, in my name.

 

EDIT: GODDAMN MOTHERFUZZING BUNNY-FUZZING BUTTMONGERS THE FUZZING BBCODE DOESN'T ALLOW UNICODE THAT FUZZING TITLE LOOKED SO BALLER

I just want to point this out, primarily because fuzzy bunny you, but the highest total and the highest average are going to be the same ranking.


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#34
Gyrocopter

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It would be really cool to have a 2v2v2v2 or something along those lines. Scores would be calculated from kills on opponents (we would need people spectating to count these) and friendly fire would be a thing. This would hopefully get rid of the leech strategies and also force team play but retain the gamefeel of a deathmatch.


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#35
comic_sans

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The point of a no-restrictions DM would be to just see what fuzzing happens

 

EXCEPT WE'VE ALL SEEN WHAT FUZZING HAPPENS HUNDREDS OF TIMES


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#36
_incitatus

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EXCEPT WE'VE ALL SEEN WHAT FUZZING HAPPENS HUNDREDS OF TIMES


Orb Lord ASSaults would dominate. As much as I love DM, I wouldn't want to play in a tourney without the TPG restrictions. Orb Lord is just stupid strong in DM, to the point the it's not very much fun to play against it unless you do it too. And even then it's stupid.

In a DM against an assault with repair kit, extractor AND composite armor - eww. Just yuck. Not fun. I will just avoid that asshat if possible.

Also, I vote for Deathmatch - American Style. (No radar, indicators, or death orbs).
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#37
Amidatelion

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Also, I vote for Deathmatch - American Style. (No radar, indicators, or death orbs).

No deathorbs is pointless when people carry around with them 3x that many orbs that are like 75% better.

Ban orbs, not internals.

To expand: in MA I can countenance the argument that banning orbs reduces tactical options, but the same doesn't hold true in DM as what makes those options work (teammates) are absent. In DM orbs drag out fights regardless of internals and restrict item selection. I had a top 10 player tell me yesterday that you're crippling yourself if you're not running 3 orbs on A-classes. In DM the orbs are definitively the meta-restricting source.

Edited by Amidatelion, 13 October 2015 - 08:25 AM.


#38
_incitatus

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No deathorbs is pointless when people carry around with them 3x that many orbs that are like 75% better.

Ban orbs, not internals.

To expand: in MA I can countenance the argument that banning orbs reduces tactical options, but the same doesn't hold true in DM as what makes those options work (teammates) are absent. In DM orbs drag out fights regardless of internals and restrict item selection. I had a top 10 player tell me yesterday that you're crippling yourself if you're not running 3 orbs on A-classes. In DM the orbs are definitively the meta-restricting source.

 

I see your point, but I disagree that its pointless.  Those deathorbs can pile up quickly and if you are the one standing on that pile, its that much harder to take you down.  Especially when enemies come at you one at a time.  Every kill gives you another orb to sit on and makes the next kill less challenging.  This gives you a better chance at multikills and killstreaks, and those bonus points add up quick.  And points wins DM. 

 

Sure, item-orbs drag out fights.  But so do emps, isms, shieldds, barricades...  Also it is MUCH harder to drop and heal in a DM than it is in a team mode, so having an orb to drop INCREASES your tactical options just like you say it does when you have teammates.  In team modes, you can get a team mate to heal you so you have even more options.  Why do you want to limit options in DM where your options for healing are already more limited than team modes?  I don't see how any viable strategy regarding an item-orb is ok in TDM but not ok DM.  Because you can do coordinated orb drops in TDM?  Seems like more of a reason to ban item-orbs in TDM to me, since it just drags out fights even longer when you can have six people drop an orb at once on the AA or something stupid.






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