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Take action against griefers?

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#1
opicr0n

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Now that Herken is back in development I was hoping that we can take care of the griefers and aimbotters who have been a pain in the fuzzybunny since the development stopped.

 

Just now we had our friend from EPA griefing yet again by feeding the enemy team because he decided he did not want to play with someone on his team.

 

He does this to Memag and Rozermabub too and I have been his target many occasions after pressing the right buttons (e.g. calling him out on his actions).

 

 

Please for the love of Herken remove these players after reviewing video material.

 

I think new players will enjoy a much cleaner experience with some of these griefers removed.

 

 

Any thoughts? Does anybody have video material?


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#2
Miscellaneous

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I do not have evidence, no, but I remember people like him doing it.

 

Is there a callout ban on these new forums? If so, you should probably remove the name ;)


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#3
opicr0n

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I do not have evidence, no, but I remember people like him doing it.

 

Is there a callout ban on these new forums? If so, you should probably remove the name ;)

 

I didnt name him, only his Clan name..


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#4
Miscellaneous

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I didnt name him, only his Clan name..

 Very good point, I thought you'd written the whole name.

 

My mistake! sorry :)


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#5
Guns_N_Rozer

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yeah...we want to ban his IP and name.....he ruin the fun of hawken ....if he will not ban, there will be no fun to play hawken and we loose hawken pilot....please Dev think about this griefers EPA  :pinch:


Edited by RozerMahbub1, 22 March 2015 - 07:59 AM.


#6
Guns_N_Rozer

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Now that Herken is back in development I was hoping that we can take care of the griefers and aimbotters who have been a pain in the fuzzybunny since the development stopped.

 

Just now we had our friend from EPA griefing yet again by feeding the enemy team because he decided he did not want to play with someone on his team.

 

He does this to Memag and Rozermabub too and I have been his target many occasions after pressing the right buttons (e.g. calling him out on his actions).

 

 

Please for the love of Herken remove these players after reviewing video material.

 

I think new players will enjoy a much cleaner experience with some of these griefers removed.

 

 

Any thoughts? Does anybody have video material?

sorry i had tons of video ....but just today i recover my windows and lost everything  :wallbash: but we asked about him and also some stuff related to like this in the TS to CapnJosh ....


Edited by RozerMahbub1, 22 March 2015 - 07:05 AM.


#7
Erzunterweltler

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Same as Rozer, I even recorded his bad attitude, but recently I deleted my old videos to have some space on my harddrive again. When I see him the next time I'll record it.



#8
Elite_is_salty

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While I'm not particularly with callout threads, I think that opi is right, and I can confirm what he says, but, I think all of these are not priorities opi. You understand very well how much work is awaiting the new devs. Work that is much more important than trying to get rid of EPA ...

 

Nevertheless, I'm all for a flag system. I should talk about this suggestion later in the future with details. 


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#9
Rainbow_Sheep

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I've never seen any aimbotters/suspicous players before, although i've had (only?) 100 hours of hawkening.

 

However this guy apprently saw a speed hacker https://www.youtube....h?v=BNKs9DTqG5w

 

I think a flag system would be great for not just hacking but harassment, bullying and all those things the minority of idiots do.


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#10
FRX23

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What about a "kick vote" button ?


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#11
opicr0n

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What about a "kick vote" button ?

 

So much this ^^. It would solve everything without flags, reviewing etc etc.

 

Such elegance ;).


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#12
YellerBill

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What about a "kick vote" button ?

Yeah being able to votekick players-- at least between rounds-- would be nice, as long as there was some kind of limit on its use so it didn't end up like those tf2 servers that always do a team scramble halfway through a round.


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#13
ReEvolve

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So much this ^^. It would solve everything without flags, reviewing etc etc.

 

Such elegance ;).

 

It wouldn't solve anything. You kick a griefer and he ends up on a different server harassing other people. That's not a solution for getting rid of griefers.

 

A system to flag people ingame and the ability to follow up by submitting screenshots or videos outside the game (like a ticket system) would be better. However, the devs would need people to look through the evidence etc and that might be a drawback for the devs.


Edited by ReEvolve, 22 March 2015 - 08:15 AM.


#14
MaNia_C

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In all actuality, there's kinda no way to get rid of both of the addressed problems. There's always gonna be crybabies and haxorz. Especially in PuG's...

Just ride out the storm :) ..

 

P.S. kick buttons can be seriously abused


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#15
YellerBill

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It wouldn't solve anything. You kick a griefer and he ends up on a different server harassing other people. That's not a solution for getting rid of griefers.

Votekicking does one thing better than a report system: It's immediate. I don't see why we can't let people votekick griefers while reports are still being processed.


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#16
YellerBill

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P.S. kick buttons can be seriously abused

A thousand times this. That's why I said there needs to be some sort of limit on votekicking if it's implemented.


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#17
MaNia_C

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Admin's can be hired from among the playerbase, which in all actuality isn't all that large. They can be a police force, they can video problematic people and send the material for reviewing. They can have the option to kick/ban someone for a limited amount of time (per-say 1 or 2 hours). Those admins can be some of the more prominent people in Hawken...true-blue dudes who can be trusted :)


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#18
Silverfire

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Admin's can be hired from among the playerbase, which in all actuality isn't all that large. They can be a police force, they can video problematic people and send the material for reviewing. They can have the option to kick/ban someone for a limited amount of time (per-say 1 or 2 hours). Those admins can be some of the more prominent people in Hawken...true-blue dudes who can be trusted :)


This also breeds elitism among such people and a possible abuse of power.

Best solution is from the devs implementing a system to deal with this. I don't want possible community drama to leak into a use of power such as this.
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#19
YellerBill

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Admin's can be hired from among the playerbase, which in all actuality isn't all that large. They can be a police force, they can video problematic people and send the material for reviewing. They can have the option to kick/ban someone for a limited amount of time (per-say 1 or 2 hours). Those admins can be some of the more prominent people in Hawken...true-blue dudes who can be trusted :)

In my experience, taking moderators/admins from the community never ends well.


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#20
Amidatelion

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Before we put it to rest, me and several others went through several drafts of community-side means to deal with hackers and griefers. We have the ability to review footage and screenshots and there are some among us with years of experience catching hackers thanks to stuff like TPG and other leagues. Furthermore, we're quite frankly better than them at all aspects of the game. 

 

The reason we never went forward with any was that I eventually determined that unless we had the power to ban, all we would be doing is giving them attention. Kicks are pointless. They feed them, give the griefers, exploiters and hackers a sense of accomplishment, which means they'll only be back for more. Hackers and griefers need to be dealt with dev side. Take on some volunteers, sure, if you want, but whoever takes action needs the ability to ban.


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#21
nokari

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It wouldn't solve anything. You kick a griefer and he ends up on a different server harassing other people. That's not a solution for getting rid of griefers.

 

A system to flag people ingame and the ability to follow up by submitting screenshots or videos outside the game (like a ticket system) would be better. However, the devs would need people to look through the evidence etc and that might be a drawback for the devs.

 

Vote kicking is more effective then flagging, taking screen shots/video, submitting, then waiting while the guy is still running around still doing whatever he wants. With vote kicking, even if he goes to the next match and does the same things, he can be quickly stopped by getting kicked in real time. It wouldn't matter if that's how the guy gets off, his efforts would be severely less effective if every time he gets into a match he gets kicked. And through word of mouth he may get kicked by everybody before he can even get into matches, leading to him either quitting the game entirely or changing his behavior.

 

I would say flagging for reporting behavior is an additional step that's helpful for getting serial griefers/aimbotters banned and should not be a replacement for kicking. Also moderating this is something that should never be put into the hands of the community, because that always ends with corruption/elitism/favoritism or at least accusations of it. Hawken admins are the most qualified for the job, not us.


Edited by nokari, 22 March 2015 - 09:02 AM.

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#22
nokari

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Admin's can be hired from among the playerbase, which in all actuality isn't all that large. They can be a police force, they can video problematic people and send the material for reviewing. They can have the option to kick/ban someone for a limited amount of time (per-say 1 or 2 hours). Those admins can be some of the more prominent people in Hawken...true-blue dudes who can be trusted :)

 

Time and time again we see this resulting badly. Volunteers lack accountability and trust from the community because they are more often than not unsupervised or untrained with no direct supervision (as in nobody of company authority in the room with them to question their actions or answer their questions). You may have 1 or 2 volunteers that do their job well and fair, but there will always be some that abuse their power on purpose or accident and even if they don't, the community won't fully trust them. Once somebody feels slighted, they'll begin the blame game, which can be very toxic. Just look at what happened when the forum "spam warrior" volunteers started moderating the forums at their own whims...

Having a say in what people can post in the forums is one thing, but having the power to BAN other players from the game itself is a whole other thing.


Edited by nokari, 22 March 2015 - 09:09 AM.

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#23
nokari

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A thousand times this. That's why I said there needs to be some sort of limit on votekicking if it's implemented.

 

A unanimous vote works along with preventing the kicked player from rejoining the same server for a limited amount of time (1hr, 2hrs, 12hrs, whatever).


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#24
MaNia_C

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Well reading though the comments, what i ascertained is that that all the systems we proposed are flawed.

 

1. Kick button system -- can be abused

2. Mods or Admins -- causes elitism and fractures the community

3. Pic's and vid's -- takes a long time to determine a hacker and it generally is unreliable

4. Anticheat systems -- they can't punish as fast as hackers adapt.

 

..so whada we'z do??


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#25
opicr0n

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Well reading though the comments, what i ascertained is that that all the systems we proposed are flawed.

 

1. Kick button system -- can be abused

2. Mods or Admins -- causes elitism and fractures the community

3. Pic's and vid's -- takes a long time to determine a hacker and it generally is unreliable

4. Anticheat systems -- they can't punish as fast as hackers adapt.

 

..so whada we'z do??

 

Most games we play have kick vote. How many cases did you experience abuse?

 

The only abuse I experience was that I got kicked because I was owning the server and they thought I was hacking. Which was actually a compliment.

 

I expect the abuse to be absolutely marginal.


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#26
DreamedArtist

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Well reading though the comments, what i ascertained is that that all the systems we proposed are flawed.

 

1. Kick button system -- can be abused

2. Mods or Admins -- causes elitism and fractures the community

3. Pic's and vid's -- takes a long time to determine a hacker and it generally is unreliable

4. Anticheat systems -- they can't punish as fast as hackers adapt.

 

..so whada we'z do??

I agree to this



#27
nokari

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Well reading though the comments, what i ascertained is that that all the systems we proposed are flawed.

 

1. Kick button system -- can be abused

2. Mods or Admins -- causes elitism and fractures the community

3. Pic's and vid's -- takes a long time to determine a hacker and it generally is unreliable

4. Anticheat systems -- they can't punish as fast as hackers adapt.

 

..so whada we'z do??

 

In my experience, while kicking CAN be abused, it rarely is and more often then not by a pre-made group of people intending for a private match (like a clan). In that case I don't see much of a problem though. A system that requires unanimous votes really reduces the possibility of abuse in random public matches compared to a majority vote.


Edited by nokari, 22 March 2015 - 09:25 AM.

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#28
MaNia_C

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Most games we play have kick vote. How many cases did you experience abuse?

 

The only abuse I experience was that I got kicked because I was owning the server and they thought I was hacking. Which was actually a compliment.

 

I expect the abuse to be absolutely marginal.

 

Well u just pointed out one form of abuse urself :) Peepz  get jelly, peepz use and abuse zi button. Though the pop in hawken is small, and i don't see it being a problem unless it grows to a more unmanageable size.

But...what if certain peepz start hating on some feeder who either is bad at the game or prepubescent and got steam rolled the last match and jus doesn't care how he plays in this one...

The game is close and u just wanna win...

u hit the button...

everyone else willing to win hits the button...

everyone's like "fuzzy bunny the dude he should have went to another server, etc etc"

It happens once...

It start happening more often...

U remember some people who don't play good and start kicking em before the match even starts...elitism ensues..

game goes even more down the drain...

 

 

I do believe that it can be abused...we just have to start thinking "creatively" about ways to use it

..and i think everyone of us will be susceptible to the "dark side " :O :)


Edited by MaNia_C, 22 March 2015 - 09:39 AM.

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#29
LaurenEmily

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The kickvote idea seems good, as long as it needs votes from both teams to actually kick someone, otherwise a team can just kickvote the best player in the enemy team and abuse it that way.


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#30
MaNia_C

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Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.

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#31
opicr0n

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The kickvote idea seems good, as long as it needs votes from both teams to actually kick someone, otherwise a team can just kickvote the best player in the enemy team and abuse it that way.

 

Agreed


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#32
Silent_

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So, he is still doing that? I was among the victims when I were still active. Was rather annoying to get blocked or EMPed by teammate, or to lose just because of feeding. In that thread dev promised to take action if involved players report. We did but that was when nothing really happened and right before devs went silent.

And oh, how many remembers that cheating thread he made? That self bust was funny and makes you think. Player that has been proven to have hacks on their pc is kinda suspicious in my opinion.

 

While kick system would have benefits, it would surely have downsides too. ie. kicks for no reason.

 

Propably coming back to Hawken. I have high hopes for new devs.



#33
Analysis

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Griefers? Hawken doesn't even have friendly fire, but it should(would cut down on mech blobs and stalemates). I'm not sure how "griefing" occurs.



#34
Amidatelion

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Griefers? Hawken doesn't even have friendly fire, but it should(would cut down on mech blobs and stalemates). I'm not sure how "griefing" occurs.

 

Emping your own team, feeding kills and EU, glitching out of the map, blocking snipers... i could go on. But I won't.

 

But I could.



#35
nokari

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Griefers? Hawken doesn't even have friendly fire, but it should(would cut down on mech blobs and stalemates). I'm not sure how "griefing" occurs.

 

Basically doing anything you can to make your team lose and frustrate them, like standing in front of teammates to block them, running to the enemy to get killed on purpose, shooting at teammates' faces constantly to distract them, etc.


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#36
LRod

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Aimbots and other hacks nearly snuffed the last few breaths out of this game.  I REALLY think this should be a priority for the new dev team.  I have seen so many pilots (vets and newbs) discouraged to the point of being so frustrated they leave not only the server but end the game.


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#37
Analysis

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Emping your own team, feeding kills and EU, glitching out of the map, blocking snipers... i could go on. But I won't.

 

But I could.

That sounds like poor play instead of griefing. Glitching out of a map would be an exploit, but not griefing. 



#38
DM30

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That sounds like poor play instead of griefing. Glitching out of a map would be an exploit, but not griefing.

It's only poor play if it isn't intentional. I've seen videos of people in siege games loading up full of EU then suiciding from enemy base turrets to help the other team out, just because someone on their team annoyed them.

So yeah, it's definitely possible even without friendly fire.

Edited by DM30, 22 March 2015 - 06:50 PM.

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#39
ArchMech

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What about a "kick vote" button ?

if you've ever played crossfire you know this is a bad thing, edit: most of the time anyway


Edited by ArchMech, 22 March 2015 - 07:02 PM.

don't mind me, i'm just on a crusade against humanity, by the end of my lifespan earth's population will be 8 billion+ trolls


#40
opicr0n

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Griefers? Hawken doesn't even have friendly fire, but it should(would cut down on mech blobs and stalemates). I'm not sure how "griefing" occurs.

 

Not sure if sarcasm. Its very easy to grief your own team by feeding kills to other team, by EMP'ing your own team in critical situations, blocking team members and what not.

 

However I am glad to conclude that you 1) do not know how to grief your team and 2) haven't played with an griefer in your team yet ^^.


Edited by opicr0n, 23 March 2015 - 06:13 AM.

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