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#1
StubbornPuppet

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Idea for item:

 

Bomb in player's inventory which will explode 3 seconds after the player's mech is destroyed, at the spot the last drop of mech health expired.

 

  • I'd say that it would have a blast radius about that of a shield and deal something like 100-150 damage... something like that.
  • You'd be able to hear 3 quiet beeps before it blows.
  • To add a bit of thought to it, the player must activate it within 4 seconds before their death. If it is activated and the player doesn't die, the item is forfeit.

As with every other thing in this game, a lot of possible positive and negative repercussions to balance.  Please discuss.


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To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#2
kaiserschmarrn_

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WAY TOO OP

tone it down by like, 110%, and then maybe someone will never consider this.



#3
DerMax

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and then maybe someone will never consider this.

This can be said about 100% of the suggestions in this subforum. Not necessarily because they all are bad, but because they don't have a recipient.



#4
StubbornPuppet

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So, the only feedback on this so far is actually just, "too much damage".  So what then, 75 damage.

 

If it is WAY TOO OP, I'm just asking "in what way?" and "what changes to the suggestion would make it fair and fun?" (other than saying, 'not having it at all.' or 'stupid suggestion'.)  Even the worst suggestions can lead to thoughts that form great ideas.


  • LRod likes this

To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#5
DerMax

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Even the worst suggestions can lead to thoughts that form great ideas.

This is true. However:

 

1. This idea, with slight variations, has been already discussed at least two times. Both times rejected by the community.

2. The suicide-bomber internal already existed in Hawken. It was introduced with Ascension but was removed shortly after due to the backlash.

3. The current consensus in the community is that any internals that reward dying (e.g. Composite Armor) are bad for the game.

4. At this point in time, community suggestions don't matter. Scroll through several pages of the suggestions in this subforum. How many of them have been implemented? The answer is zero. The game is ways off from needing any game content suggestions.


Edited by DerMax, 13 August 2015 - 07:37 AM.

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#6
kaiserschmarrn_

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Independant of Staler and Waldorf's cynical (and unproductive) feedback, I think it's an interesting idea and would add depth to the game mechanics; especially when considering that some folks counts on the orbs in their strategy.  I say keep the ideas coming...and f*ck the jaded cynics.

This is wrong. I'm sorry.

It would add zero depth and a death incentive.



#7
LRod

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This is wrong. I'm sorry.

It would add zero depth and a death incentive.

Oh well, if you say so, then I guess I am wrong and it's me who should be apologizing for mispeaking.  What better way to play the game than to allow yourself - because it's incentivized - to be killed for the sake of potentially inficting marginal damage to an opponent.


"The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting"  - Sun Tzu


#8
kaiserschmarrn_

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Oh well, if you say so, then I guess I am wrong and it's me who should be apologizing for mispeaking.  What better way to play the game than to allow yourself - because it's incentivized - to be killed for the sake of potentially inficting marginal damage to an opponent.

You are missing the point, but that's my bad because I didn't really give an in-depth explanation as to why it was bad. Oh well.



#9
StubbornPuppet

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 Even the worst suggestions can lead to thoughts that form great ideas.

 

This is true. However:

 

1. This idea, with slight variations, has been already discussed at least two times. Both times rejected by the community.

2. The suicide-bomber internal already existed in Hawken. It was introduced with Ascension but was removed shortly after due to the backlash.

3. The current consensus in the community is that any internals that reward dying (e.g. Composite Armor) are bad for the game.

4. At this point in time, community suggestions don't matter. Scroll through several pages of the suggestions in this subforum. How many of them have been implemented? The answer is zero. The game is ways off from needing any game content suggestions.

 

on points:

1. Maybe something like it was discussed before - I thought of it too and wanted to discuss it.  I couldn't care less whether you think the community rejected it - I am the community.  We are all the community.  We're not voting, just chatting.

 

2. I remember before Ascension.  It was short lived and not done well at all iirc.

 

3. Again with community consensus - how is that determined and settled again?  Does part of the forum user agreement prohibit me from continuing to post about things I want to discuss further, on the grounds that they've already been settled?

 

4. I'm not under any illusion that 99.9% of everything we talk about here is pure vapor and will never be seriously considered or even talked about on the developer end.  That's not gonna stop any of us from talking about it anyhow.  People love to imagine "what if".

 

 

I think it's fair that a player sacrifice a certain number of item slots in exchange for this.  And having that 3 to 4 second warning beep sound should be more than enough to tell players to get the f outta the way of a space the same size as a shield.  If it made people feel better about it, it could also do friendly damage.  I'm just not seeing the huge problem here - I have to take up item slots, remember to select the right slot, activate it within 3-4 seconds of death or lose it completely... and I still have a very good chance that the enemy will completely avoid it.  If that's OP, then they better remove TOW's and Grenades from the game ASAP, because they do more damage, require no wait time, take up no item slots and can be used over and over again. ;) jk


To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#10
Draigun

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Reminds me of a proof of concept that changed the way orbs operate. Instead of giving health, they would cause someone to lose health at the same rate they would have gained it. It was an excellent PoC against orblords during the peak of it.

 

75 damage is still too much. But that doesn't really matter right now. It's an interesting concept, but I don't think it has any merit in Hawken right now. Utilizing a strategy based on dying isn't what the game promotes. For other applications, it could perform well, but the problem is this item would have to be overpowered to compensate for death. However, there are a few mechs that often trade immense damage and burst for quick death in certain circumstances. This item would be advantageous for these scenarios.

 

Possible revisions:

  • A two-slot internal that causes your mech's explosion from death to do damage
  • A medium sized explosion radius
  • Damage is randomized from an output range of 35 to 50
  • The mech's explosion will have a different visual effect; possibly green tinted

The idea here is to randomize damage so as to not reproduce consistent results, which should largely prevent unnecessary death. Items have traditionally been of more tangible use than Internals. I think allowing some damage output to stem from certain Internals will increase the feeling of customization on mechs. There would be no need for a time-delay activation process, since the mech's death is already delayed by a brief amount of time.


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#11
kaiserschmarrn_

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Reminds me of a proof of concept that changed the way orbs operate. Instead of giving health, they would cause someone to lose health at the same rate they would have gained it. It was an excellent PoC against orblords during the peak of it.

 

75 damage is still too much. But that doesn't really matter right now. It's an interesting concept, but I don't think it has any merit in Hawken right now. Utilizing a strategy based on dying isn't what the game promotes. For other applications, it could perform well, but the problem is this item would have to be overpowered to compensate for death. However, there are a few mechs that often trade immense damage and burst for quick death in certain circumstances. This item would be advantageous for these scenarios.

 

Possible revisions:

  • A two-slot internal that causes your mech's explosion from death to do damage
  • A medium sized explosion radius
  • Damage is randomized from an output range of 35 to 50
  • The mech's explosion will have a different visual effect; possibly green tinted

The idea here is to randomize damage so as to not reproduce consistent results, which should largely prevent unnecessary death. Items have traditionally been of more tangible use than Internals. I think allowing some damage output to stem from certain Internals will increase the feeling of customization on mechs. There would be no need for a time-delay activation process, since the mech's death is already delayed by a brief amount of time.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head.

The only problem with this idea that you left out is how it would turn good fights into "oh he killed me because of that cheese internal" fights.



#12
SatelliteJack

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If this were a thing, I would buy a Scout and create an optimal build for dying. Not even a joke. I would consider a positive KD a failure. My goal would be to whittle someone down to the very brink of death, then let them finish me, just so that it would kill them too. They would waddle over to absorb my soul, only to get kersploded. It would be glorious.


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#13
nepacaka

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Idea for item:

 

Bomb in player's inventory which will explode 3 seconds after the player's mech is destroyed, at the spot the last drop of mech health expired.

 

if i remember correct, since ascension start in hawken already exist a "suicide" internal, which deal AOE damage when you die. but probably It was announced by accident and developers are very quickly removed this intermal from the game. only player who install it on mech have this.

i think ADH delete it because it was bad, and even shouldn't exist.

 

old russian player with nickname "rajhin" have this internal on his grenadier, but if you trying to check it, his grenadier page lead to "404 error" on herokuapp :D


Edited by nepacaka, 15 August 2015 - 03:01 AM.

Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#14
bacon_avenger

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if i remember correct, since ascension start in hawken already exist a "suicide" internal, which deal AOE damage when you die. but probably It was announced by accident and developers are very quickly removed this intermal from the game. only player who install it on mech have this.

i think ADH delete it because it was bad, and even shouldn't exist.

It was present in the HAB, and it was quickly identified as very broken and a Bad Idea to even exist, so it was locked out.  Sometime after ascension was pushed out to everyone, it was accidentally made available, but quickly locked out again.


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Test dummy for science, Follower of Wheatons Law, usually hanging around #hawkenscrim and #spawn, occasional poster of YouTube videos and streaming.  Can also be found on twitter

 

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#15
HepTagoN

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I think i had a break for hwk so i have never seen that internal. Did it work like OP suggestion? If not, i think its worth trying OP's idea. But make IT at least 75 dmg

Edited by HepTagoN, 17 August 2015 - 07:12 AM.


#16
StubbornPuppet

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It didn't work like I proposed.  It was more of an automatic, instant "BOOM" that required no thought and turned players who were low on health into suicide bombers.  It took up very little item space (1 space iirc) didn't require the player to trigger it, had no countdown and dealt too much damage.

 

Also, this item existed in a Hawken that is quite different than what it is today.  There was, for example, a much higher time to kill - which left those same low-health players with more time to pursue a suicide tactic.

 

I try to not let things that generally didn't work in the past taint my view of how similar things might work in the present.


To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 





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