Jump to content

Photo

Weapons you dislike, and why

- - - - -

  • Please log in to reply
109 replies to this topic

#81
MomOw

MomOw

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1039 posts

lets talk about weapons ! The purpose of this thread is not whining about weapons you don't master, but more weapons that you feel disappointed with

 

Hellfire : need something to make it more useful when shooting without aiming

 

Re-D0X : need something to make it more consistent, I found them usefull with crowed servers (9vs9), but IMHO this weapon fails has a support weapon

 

AM-SAR : that weapon is not bad, but it needs something, the semi-auto isn't that much a game changer. + remove the smoke

 

PN-223 : here again that weapon is not bad, but it's outshined by the RPR

 

I don't agree with Elite rage against hellfire, but I do agree that some maps needs more covers (bunker...) and hellfire NEED a useful dumbfire mode

 

I played with the EOC repeater recently, well,... low DPS and not really a burst weapon (as it doesn't fires puck in the same time), plus projectile but with AOE and self damages so you can't go really close. well it feels like a missed opportunity.


IRZUTYo.png

gXO9Nfd.pngmXasTsY.pngft4VqcE.png

 

KDR Member | Streamer | Priority Target II

Spoiler

#82
Hecatoncheires

Hecatoncheires

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 171 posts

Grenade Launcher

Would be great if it had a more apparent delay animation.


What the Heca-


#83
brackets

brackets

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 123 posts

@ticklemyiguana: You might find this thread interesting: reduce uncharged reload time to 1s for 78 dps (comparable to uncharged heat cannon in damage and dps); increase charge time for each puck to 0.66s retaining current 156 burst damage with 3s load time.



#84
NeptIsLuvNeptIsLyf

NeptIsLuvNeptIsLyf

    Newbie

  • New Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts

Everything that isn't Slug and Sabot.



#85
ticklemyiguana

ticklemyiguana

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1257 posts

@ticklemyiguana: You might find this thread interesting: reduce uncharged reload time to 1s for 78 dps (comparable to uncharged heat cannon in damage and dps); increase charge time for each puck to 0.66s retaining current 156 burst damage with 3s load time.

Brackets quote me so I get a notification goddammit! If I had previously known that thread existed I would have wanted to see it!
(Thank you)
This is a good suggestion.

Spoiler

LGdSqzD.png


#86
n3onfx

n3onfx

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 511 posts

EOC is actually pretty easy to fix imo, or at the least the direction to go in order to bring it up to par is evident enough. Burst on it is perfectly fine, all it needs is either a small travel speed buff or reload time buff, or both.

 

As tickle explained there is too much time right now between shots on it, which means that in a TDM situation you take too long to kill someone before their team comes back and you either have to flee or commit to finishing the fight and probably die. I love EOC infil and it still is possible to do well with it against competent teams but a HEAT infil will usually be better in every aspect apart from pure burst. And if pure burst is what you're going after might as well play a Raider in that situation which will give you increased survivability. EOC Raider suffers from long reload times even more than EOC infil given the huge reload time on the secondary, a T32 or Reflak Raider will pretty much always do better than an EOC one.

 

I've seen people suggest increasing the damage on EOC pucks laying around as mines but I don't think it fixes anything and starts overlapping with the Predator's role. You could argue that lowering EOC reload times will make it start overlapping with the HEAT but the 2 weapons are different enough that it shouldn't be an issue. EOC infil is clearly more defensive than a HEAT one.

 

Buffing the reload time and following it with a slight projectile travel speed if it is not enough would be a good place to start in regards to bringing EOC in line with other weapon viability imo.


  • HHJFTRU likes this

t

t

DWEH3ZP.png   CRITICAL  RqKpxHn.png    ASSIST   VDNrFxD.png

t

t


#87
GreyFa1con

GreyFa1con

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 172 posts
The thing about EOC is that it's second to hellfires in how annoying it is to have temporary landmines strewn all over the battlefield. (And it's not necessarily attached to a relatively defenseless Mech like a pred)

Annoying weapons need to have weaknesses. Or else the game becomes a spam fest of annoyance.

_

Edited by GreyFa1con, 23 October 2015 - 10:26 AM.

TRIBES: Developed a server mod with 40 servers, 20 clans, and competitive league play.

PLANETSIDE: Got about 30 suggested changes implemented, and 40,000 game downloads via a 1Mb mini-installer I developed.

http://hawken.heroku...user/GreyFa1con

 


#88
n3onfx

n3onfx

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 511 posts

The thing about EOC is that it's second to hellfires in how annoying it is to have temporary landmines strewn all over the battlefield. (And it's not necessarily attached to a relatively defenseless Mech like a pred)

Annoying weapons need to have weaknesses. Or else the game becomes a spam fest of annoyance.

 

Each individual puck does 10 damage if you step on it though, so the annoyance of these "temporary landmines" is minimal. Also dunno where you got the fact that the pred is relatively defenseless, that thing in the right hands is downright scary. Very hard to play to full potential but very strong when it happens.


t

t

DWEH3ZP.png   CRITICAL  RqKpxHn.png    ASSIST   VDNrFxD.png

t

t


#89
GreyFa1con

GreyFa1con

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 172 posts

Each individual puck does 10 damage if you step on it though, so the annoyance of these "temporary landmines" is minimal. Also dunno where you got the fact that the pred is relatively defenseless, that thing in the right hands is downright scary. Very hard to play to full potential but very strong when it happens.


Hellfires aren't hugely damaging either. Didn't stop them from being annoying. And if they got their DPS buffed, the game would suck.

If you buff the EOCs standard ability for DPS, you'd need to make the projectiles disappear the instant they hit a hard surface.

Granted, this could be an alternate fire mode. That would be perfectly fine.


_

TRIBES: Developed a server mod with 40 servers, 20 clans, and competitive league play.

PLANETSIDE: Got about 30 suggested changes implemented, and 40,000 game downloads via a 1Mb mini-installer I developed.

http://hawken.heroku...user/GreyFa1con

 


#90
n3onfx

n3onfx

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 511 posts

Hellfires aren't hugely damaging either. Didn't stop them from being annoying. And if they got their DPS buffed, the game would suck.

If you buff the EOCs standard ability for DPS, you'd need to make the projectiles disappear the instant they hit a hard surface.

Granted, this could be an alternate fire mode. That would be perfectly fine.


_

 

 

You really can't compare a homing salvo that does 100+ damage to big glowing pucks that last a couple seconds and require to step on them to do a measly 10 damage each. If you want to push the comparison anyways EOC pucks are easier to evade than hellfires. I mean it makes sense, evading something stationary on the ground glowing a bright color isn't exactly hard.

 

EOC is a bad weapon as is, ask anyone. It needs help. And the mine part of the weapon is so insignificant that it shouldn't be taken in account most of the time. If you really find EOC pucks to be a problem and you can't wait 5.5 seconds for them to disappear or walk around them then just hover over them, they can't be manually detonated like mines.


t

t

DWEH3ZP.png   CRITICAL  RqKpxHn.png    ASSIST   VDNrFxD.png

t

t


#91
GreyFa1con

GreyFa1con

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 172 posts

EOC is a bad weapon as is, ask anyone. It needs help. And the mine part of the weapon is so insignificant that it shouldn't be taken in account most of the time. If you really find EOC pucks to be a problem and you can't wait 5.5 seconds for them to disappear or walk around them then just hover over them, they can't be manually detonated like mines.


Make an alternate fire mode that only does damage from direct hits, and I'd be perfectly fine with that having higher DPS.

TRIBES: Developed a server mod with 40 servers, 20 clans, and competitive league play.

PLANETSIDE: Got about 30 suggested changes implemented, and 40,000 game downloads via a 1Mb mini-installer I developed.

http://hawken.heroku...user/GreyFa1con

 


#92
n3onfx

n3onfx

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 511 posts

Did you honestly even try the EOC Repeater? The link you provide in your signature shows you don't have a mech with EOC-R on it.

 

I can only encourage you to take an infil/raider with eoc and stick to it for a week. Then come back here and tell us your opinion again.


t

t

DWEH3ZP.png   CRITICAL  RqKpxHn.png    ASSIST   VDNrFxD.png

t

t


#93
GreyFa1con

GreyFa1con

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 172 posts

I can only encourage you to take an infil/raider with eoc and stick to it for a week. Then come back here and tell us your opinion again.


I'll give it a try.

But it is interesting how you argue the mine aspect doesn't matter, but an alternate fire mode with more dps minus the mine aspect isn't good enough?

TRIBES: Developed a server mod with 40 servers, 20 clans, and competitive league play.

PLANETSIDE: Got about 30 suggested changes implemented, and 40,000 game downloads via a 1Mb mini-installer I developed.

http://hawken.heroku...user/GreyFa1con

 


#94
n3onfx

n3onfx

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 511 posts

I'll give it a try.

But it is interesting how you argue the mine aspect doesn't matter, but an alternate fire mode with more dps minus the mine aspect isn't good enough?

 

Because there's not really a point to make it that complicated when the mine aspect is not an issue in the first place. It already has an alternate mode in charged/uncharged. When people here ask for more dps they really are asking for shorter reload times, not a buff to either mine/direct hit damage.

 

You'll see that the best use you get out of the mines is often information more than damage. Spray a passageway, and you'll know if someone is taking that path during the 5.5 seconds it's up due to the damage indicator. This is pretty important in a mech that takes a more defensive approach to engagements like the eoc infil. Getting people to step on it in a fight is more a small bonus than what you actually want a direct hit does three times more damage and more importantly, immediately.

 

Infiltrator is the "easiest" mech to try EOC-R on, Raider is harder imo, I hope you have fun testing it out :)


t

t

DWEH3ZP.png   CRITICAL  RqKpxHn.png    ASSIST   VDNrFxD.png

t

t


#95
GreyFa1con

GreyFa1con

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 172 posts

Because there's not really a point to make it that complicated when the mine aspect is not an issue in the first place.

Then I don't see where the disagreement is to adding an alternate fire.

When people here ask for more dps they really are asking for shorter reload times, not a buff to either mine/direct hit damage.


That's because the gun has some of the highest burst damage in the game.

Which needs to be balanced, without taking away the current gameplay.

Far easier to do that modularly, by splitting it off into a secondary fire mode.

TRIBES: Developed a server mod with 40 servers, 20 clans, and competitive league play.

PLANETSIDE: Got about 30 suggested changes implemented, and 40,000 game downloads via a 1Mb mini-installer I developed.

http://hawken.heroku...user/GreyFa1con

 


#96
n3onfx

n3onfx

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 511 posts

Then I don't see where the disagreement is to adding an alternate fire.


That's because the gun has some of the highest burst damage in the game.

Which needs to be balanced, without taking away the current gameplay.

Far easier to do that modularly, by splitting it off into a secondary fire mode.

 

Highest burst in the game if you land everything on the charged shot. By that logic, without looking at how the weapon works and being in the absolute best case scenario all the time then the EOC Raider should be leagues above T32 and Reflak Raider. In actual ingame scenario though nobody will tell you that EOC Raider is better than T32 or Reflak Raider. Try it out you'll see why people consider it a weak weapon and ask for a dps increase.


t

t

DWEH3ZP.png   CRITICAL  RqKpxHn.png    ASSIST   VDNrFxD.png

t

t


#97
GreyFa1con

GreyFa1con

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 172 posts
Just realized that a secondary wouldn't work anyways, since nearly all the Mechs that have EOC have a secondary.

Now that I think about it, you'd probably need to implement some sort of dynamic reload time.

Higher burst, higher reload.

TRIBES: Developed a server mod with 40 servers, 20 clans, and competitive league play.

PLANETSIDE: Got about 30 suggested changes implemented, and 40,000 game downloads via a 1Mb mini-installer I developed.

http://hawken.heroku...user/GreyFa1con

 


#98
Meraple

Meraple

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 576 posts

nearly all the Mechs that have EOC have a secondary.

Because Hellfires are so horrible they don't even count as a Secondary.

The secondary fire mode would only be possible with a tap-or-charge mechanism if you follow the current system.
Breacher/Heat/EOC-R are all examples of it.

#99
GreyFa1con

GreyFa1con

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 172 posts

Because Hellfires are so horrible they don't even count as a Secondary.

The secondary fire mode would only be possible with a tap-or-charge mechanism if you follow the current system.
Breacher/Heat/EOC-R are all examples of it.


Let me reiterate.

Lower refire after shooting a 4 puck EOC shot.

But possibly increase refire after shooting a 6 puck EOC shot.

Such that the DPS for the first 3 or 4 volleys, starting with a 6 puck burst is basically the same between current and updated EOC'S.

TRIBES: Developed a server mod with 40 servers, 20 clans, and competitive league play.

PLANETSIDE: Got about 30 suggested changes implemented, and 40,000 game downloads via a 1Mb mini-installer I developed.

http://hawken.heroku...user/GreyFa1con

 


#100
Meraple

Meraple

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 576 posts

Let me reiterate.
Lower refire after shooting a 4 puck EOC shot.
But possibly increase refire after shooting a 6 puck EOC shot.
Such that the DPS for the first 3 or 4 volleys, starting with a 6 puck burst is basically the same between current and updated EOC'S.

I didn't even address the dynamic reload time, so I'm honestly not sure why you quoted me?

#101
TheButtSatisfier

TheButtSatisfier

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 972 posts

I didn't even address the dynamic reload time, so I'm honestly not sure why you quoted me?

 

You said "EOC"


8) Tech in the streets, Brawler in the sheets (8


#102
n3onfx

n3onfx

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 511 posts

Because Hellfires are so horrible they don't even count as a Secondary.
The secondary fire mode would only be possible with a tap-or-charge mechanism if you follow the current system.
Breacher/Heat/EOC-R are all examples of it.

You forgot the T32 you insufferable fuzzy bunny <3



Damn, s c r u b is censored?

Edited by neon, 23 October 2015 - 04:26 PM.

  • HHJFTRU likes this

t

t

DWEH3ZP.png   CRITICAL  RqKpxHn.png    ASSIST   VDNrFxD.png

t

t


#103
Meraple

Meraple

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 576 posts

Damn, s c r u b is censored?

n2onfx got rekt by a wordfilter.
You're now demoted to n1onfx.

T32 is like the FLAK's handicapped cousin so I didn't mention it.

#104
n3onfx

n3onfx

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 511 posts

n2onfx got rekt by a wordfilter.
You're now demoted to n1onfx.
T32 is like the FLAK's handicapped cousin so I didn't mention it.


Soon it will be n0on.

t

t

DWEH3ZP.png   CRITICAL  RqKpxHn.png    ASSIST   VDNrFxD.png

t

t


#105
capnjosh

capnjosh

    Advanced Member

  • Administrators
  • 262 posts

By the way, this sort of thread is always a good read :)


  • DieselCat, brackets and JackVandal like this

#106
ticklemyiguana

ticklemyiguana

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1257 posts

the adults are here. three posts until lock calling it now


Edited by ticklemyiguana, 23 October 2015 - 05:11 PM.

Spoiler

LGdSqzD.png


#107
IronAxe

IronAxe

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts

Because sometimes you need adaptability. Sometimes you need specialization.

 

Also, of course some weapons work better than others in certain situations.

I have problems with my connection and not all weapons work well



#108
comic_sans

comic_sans

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 649 posts

the adults are here. three posts until lock calling it now

 

Did you ever sit next to a kid in grade school who would just say, totally unprompted, "Dude, shut up, I'm trying to work" so as to get you in trouble for nothing?  I hated that guy.

 

Also just checking back in to say I hate the mismatch of the firing rate and sound on the assault rifle.  Also how the wooshy noise after you stop firing is louder than the bassy thuds which are actually kinda nice sounding.


100% Hamburger | #becomeinpopcorn

AOTbYIL.png


#109
Rainbow_Sheep

Rainbow_Sheep

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 658 posts

Let me reiterate.

Lower refire after shooting a 4 puck EOC shot.

But possibly increase refire after shooting a 6 puck EOC shot.

Such that the DPS for the first 3 or 4 volleys, starting with a 6 puck burst is basically the same between current and updated EOC'S.


That's... Actually a really good idea.

It could work similar to the breacher charge shot ? Flak shot combo with the lowered reload.

Meaning charging the EOC would reward the player more.

Spoiler

#110
maxajcd

maxajcd

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 187 posts

the adults are here. three posts until lock calling it now

more than 3 ;)


I do appreciate the art, but I don't have time to find anything good. /h/





2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users