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#81
Panzermanathod

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But physically seeing something and having some means to detect something aren't the same thing. Just because you can just faintly see a Pred actively cloaking doesn't mean the radar should pick it up as well if the cloak is made to not appear on radar.

 

Also just because the scanner is sending a signal doesn't mean it should appear on everyone's radar. There are such a thing as varying frequencies that some instruments can and cannot immediately pick up.



#82
Sylhiri

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If the cloak is suppose to mask your mech both visually and from radar, I'd say make it work equally well for both.  While cloaked, you can still be seen, same should be the case for radar, just significantly reduced as is the case with being seen.  When it comes to active radar, which is pretty much what the scanner is as apposed to passive radar, which is probably what the mechs are using, you should show up... as well as a huge dot for the scanner since it's actually transmitting out a signal.

 

Why they hell would I use an ability if it only works some of the time, even more so since it eats fuel in the case of infil or limits a large portion of movement options with pred.



#83
GreyFa1con

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How about scanner has exactly the same detection ability as a friendly mech, but longer range.


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#84
ATX22

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Why they hell would I use an ability if it only works some of the time, even more so since it eats fuel in the case of infil or limits a large portion of movement options with pred.

 

It "works" all of the time, but would be countered by the scanner.  If the scanner shows up on your radar (make it another color if need be) you'd know to either stay out of the range of the scanner or not waste that ability.

 

But physically seeing something and having some means to detect something aren't the same thing. Just because you can just faintly see a Pred actively cloaking doesn't mean the radar should pick it up as well if the cloak is made to not appear on radar.

 

Also just because the scanner is sending a signal doesn't mean it should appear on everyone's radar. There are such a thing as varying frequencies that some instruments can and cannot immediately pick up.

 

It's a game, it's adding drawbacks and benefits to abilities and deploy-ables.  The Hawken Infiltrator page noted that the camo ability masked the mech both visually and from radar.. it could be 100% invisible on radar and optically, I don't care, that's up to Reloaded.  IMHO, the infiltrator doesn't become 100% invisible visually, so why should it be 100% invisible to radar?

 

I frankly don't play this game enough to care anymore.. probably going to uninstall anyway, so there's what I think about it, I'm done.



#85
Panzermanathod

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 IMHO, the infiltrator doesn't become 100% invisible visually, so why should it be 100% invisible to radar?.

 

Because those are two different things.



#86
hellc9943

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I frankly don't play this game enough to care anymore.. probably going to uninstall anyway, so there's what I think about it, I'm done.


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#87
Kauyon

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If scanner "reworks" end up making the infiltrator even weaker I'll get very sad and angry. Just go for the ~3 seconds item life that was suggested since it's simple enough to implement until we get client updates going.

Edited by Kauyon, 10 October 2015 - 02:00 PM.


#88
DieselCat

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Sonar? I could get behind that. Removing the item completely seems an extreme step to take, adjustments to the mechanic seems more appropriate.

 

A water map with submersible mechs would go nicely with the sonar concept as new content when it arrives....... :tongue: 

 

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#89
thedark20

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I think, for all intents and purposes of the development, these low-tier players are currently irrelevant to the game's future success.

You sir clearly have no idea how this works. Josh confirmed that TTK and other things will be tweaked to improve new player's experience. It IS important to make that experience confortable for those "low-tier" players you name, wich may be or not, more or less, doesn't matter, dedicated to the game: a rookie can PERFECTLY be a dedicated person who wants to improve at the game but doesn't have the time or just contributes to the community by posting ideas and reporting bugs on the forums. They deserve attention and they are the reason why the game is gonna grow/already grows (slowly). We must have new players' attention in order to get more skilled players, everyone dashed through the entire map and when we encountered someone we couldn't dodge anywhere because we were out of fuel, everyone had the bad habit of shooting while standing still, everyone missed every TOW rocket and overheated on front of someone. Seriously, you're being rude naming rookies "low tier players", at least there are that are much nicer than people like you who disrepect them.



To the topic, a progressive scanner would mean a complete rework for the scanner and also a nerf to it. A 3 seconds refresh between waves would be enough to balance it.

Another thing could like an active ability wich gives the mech the ability to throw 3 waves of scanning with the current range, with a delay of 3 seconds, wich is cancelled if the mech recieves damage. Then the scanner is consumed after the third wave.

There are so many ideas regarding the rework of this scanner, but for now the Dev team must focus on re-building the dev team once again.


Edited by thedark20, 11 October 2015 - 04:35 AM.

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#90
Amidatelion

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You sir 

 

Just want to point out that anytime anyone starts a sentence with this it's a pretty clear sign that you can ignore the rest of the post without any loss.


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#91
DieselCat

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Just want to point out that anytime anyone starts a sentence with this it's a pretty clear sign that you can ignore the rest of the post without any loss.

That's a pretty silly thing to be pointing out .

 

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#92
Panzermanathod

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Just want to point out that anytime anyone starts a sentence with this it's a pretty clear sign that you can ignore the rest of the post without any loss.

Sir, you would be ignoring a good point from the user.


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#93
thedark20

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Just want to point out that anytime anyone starts a sentence with this it's a pretty clear sign that you can ignore the rest of the post without any loss.

Welp, that's the last thing I expected from my TL;TR rant about this guy an his complete hate towards new players. I don't need a review from a guy who disrespects my entire post by just naming him "sir", as the above post said, it's pretty silly.


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#94
Amidatelion

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Welp, that's the last thing I expected from my TL;TR rant about this guy an his complete hate towards new players. I don't need a review from a guy who disrespects my entire post by just naming him "sir", as the above post said, it's pretty silly.

 

Alright, let's break down why you're wrong, and why your post was worth ignoring.

 

 

clearly have no idea how this works.

 

Because clearly being the one of the oldest extant players and having seen literally hundreds of thousands of new players play for a few days across all TTKs is going to leave zero impact on someone's personal experiences, expressed as an opinion. That's right. Opinion.

 

 

I think, for all intents and purposes of the development, these low-tier players are currently irrelevant to the game's future success. 

 

So first off, you're getting in DerMax's face for his opinion, for which he has plenty of subjective backing for.

 

 

 It IS important to make that experience confortable for those "low-tier" players you name, wich may be or not, more or less, doesn't matter, dedicated to the game: a rookie can PERFECTLY be a dedicated person who wants to improve at the game but doesn't have the time or just contributes to the community by posting ideas and reporting bugs on the forums. 

 

If I'm getting your point here, the participation of someone with no time to play the game is valuable because... what? Because it is? They have no time to play, by your own construction, how can they be contributing much of anything? if they were talking to their friends about it, or spending money on MC as Hyginos is suggesting, then you'd have a leg to stand on here. But a) we don't have numbers on new player pay-out and b) that's not the point you're making to begin with.

 

 

They deserve attention and they are the reason why the game is gonna grow/already grows (slowly). 

 

False. The population is shrinking (again). They are the reason the population spikes and returns to normal. 

 

 

We must have new players' attention in order to get more skilled players, everyone dashed through the entire map and when we encountered someone we couldn't dodge anywhere because we were out of fuel, everyone had the bad habit of shooting while standing still, everyone missed every TOW rocket and overheated on front of someone. 

 

True. But only people who actually like the mechanics of Hawken and can come to terms with its skill ceiling stick around. Which is where Dermax's point goes:

 

 

Players SteamCharts stat plummeting below 300; the only thing that can save the game is drastic changes — not idling. The more experiments we do with items/internals/mechanics, the better.

 

He's arguing that something is necessary to broaden the appeal of Hawken, period. Low-tier, medium-tier, high-tier. Some dude picked up Hawken a month ago and was wrecking my fuzzy bunny in like 2 weeks. Haven't heard from him since. I assume it's because the game didn't appeal in the long-term because of its mechanics, server issues, population. And before you latch on to that last word, trying to retain the trickle of players Hawken currently gains is like begging for scraps - the quantity is just not there. A serious population boost is necessary, one that comes with a long-term, backed-to-the-hilt marketing strategy. A strategy that does not make sense while significant chunks of the game are broken or unappealing. 

 

The problem with your post, and why it's worth ignoring, is that you threw a snit-fit at people being called low-tier and ignored the rest of the post. Guess what? They are. We are. You're low-tier. I'm medium-tier. Dermax is high-tier. Who gives a fuzzy bunny. I think low-tier players can be seen as irrelevant because, as you go on to prove, their understanding of the mechanics are stunted and, from an extra-monetary perspective, the only thing they can contribute is either entertainment or insight. There. I just made more sense than your entire argument and framed it as an opinion, backed by facts. As opposed to your post, which claimed facts and backed them with feelings. 

 

Framing low-tier players as irrelevant was the clear expression of an opinion, that you then tried to go ahead and "disprove" somehow by attacking the poster, saying its rude and that we should value low-tier players for no real reason given other than an appeal to our emotions or an even narrower, more limited version of Dermax's argument. And you did it with the fantastically entitled, fedora-doffing, cheetos-smacking redditor opener of "You sir."


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#95
MomOw

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removing radar for a week would be fun :smile:


Edited by MomOw, 11 October 2015 - 12:13 PM.

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#96
Sylhiri

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I would hate to see you when your pissed off Amid, lol



#97
DieselCat

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Alright, let's break down why you're wrong, and why your post was worth ignoring.

 

 

 

Your replies (along with DerMax) are toxic and uncalled for, which is usually the case here.....Please find some other way to reply to community members by not always having to attack them.

 

Grow the fuzzy bunny up ["SIR"].....

 

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#98
Amidatelion

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Please find some other way to reply to community members by not always having to attack them.

 

 

You sir clearly have no idea how this works. 



#99
DieselCat

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Please get off your high horse dude...you're really not all that................ :yes:


Just Relax....and take life one game at a time....

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#100
Nept

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Your replies (along with DerMax) are toxic and uncalled for, which is usually the case here.....Please find some other way to reply to community members by not always having to attack them.

 

Grow the fuzzy bunny up ["SIR"].....

 

*+

 

Please get off your high horse dude...you're really not all that................ :yes:

 

be-the-change1.jpg

 

Seriously, though: you're always calling people out for rudeness and high-horsery while exhibiting those same qualities yourself.


Edited by Nept: Ultra Lord of the God-Kings, 11 October 2015 - 02:40 PM.

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#101
Panzermanathod

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In this thread: Using sir unironically is stronger than any actual insult one could give.


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#102
Merl61

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Can I request this thread to be locked? For obvious reasons, the most important of which is the fact that it has strayed way off topic. 


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#103
Panzermanathod

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Off topic? Yes.

 

Way off topic? No.



#104
PsychedelicGrass

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quit crying at eachother and such, you're all equally dumb and boring.

/thread

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What's the big fuzzy bunnyng deal? Lots of amazing people have committed suicide, and they turned out alright.

 


#105
DieselCat

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be-the-change1.jpg

 

Seriously, though: you're always calling people out for rudeness and high-horsery while exhibiting those same qualities yourself.

Not so....just defending others that get attacked for stupid reasons....


Just Relax....and take life one game at a time....

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#106
Nept

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Had you left out the last line from each post I quoted ("Grow the fuzzy bunny up "SIR"; and "you're really not all that/emoticon"), you could've claimed that you were "defending" others with good intentions.  As it was, though, you engaged in much the same behaviour as the person whose attitude you're (ostensibly) attempting to improve. 

 

If you're actually attempting to improve someone's posting habits, maybe don't goad them in the same breath.

 

*Edit* Should mention that Amid's (admittedly harsh) argument was fairly cogent.


Edited by Nept: Ultra Lord of the God-Kings, 11 October 2015 - 08:20 PM.


#107
Aregon

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While I necessarily don`t agree with how DerMax phrased it, I do however agree that the more experienced players should get to say something than the less experienced when it comes to game mechanics and such. However the less experienced should still be listened to, as they must tell us maybe what keeps them playing, what made them stay, why did they test the game in the first place etcetc.

 

I personally highly dislike it when the terms high-tier and low-tier gets used, not because they are bad phrases by themselves, however they are often portrayed from my experience that a low-tier player is worthless to the game and that only the high-tiers are worth keeping. With a game with such a low playerbase that is proper bollocks as we really need every single player for the game to grow, however from what I believe this very vocal minority may  put of many new members who enter the forums or a game with these people.


Edited by Sir Aregon, 11 October 2015 - 09:55 PM.

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#108
thedark20

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I think the thing with the Scanner being "OP" is because the current TTK. TOW hits are much unforgiving for A classes than B classes, prefiring where the enemy is and doging away can give a high advantage that seems unfair. The scanner gives you that confidence to Hit and Run or prefire that red dot without being noticed, wich gives more opportunities to get slammed.

As i said, a temporary scan like UAV in CoD, with a 3 seconds delay, should be enough to make it a bit more balanced, as it will give the person using it a reason to doubt if he should dive or not into that detected enemy.

EDIT: Also, TOW reload time is way too fast for the current TTK, as a single TOW can make such a difference, they are easy to land because of their travel speed and splash damage/radius


Edited by thedark20, 12 October 2015 - 03:01 AM.

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#109
LadyTiggs

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Keep threads on topic please or they will get locked... like this one. 


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