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#1
CrimsonKaim

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Not make this equation be true:

 

Lose Team in TDM = loss?

 

 

Because I am sick of beeing forced to stick to a dumb team whic his unable to hold the frontline.

In this case I have three choices:

 

1. Fall back and back and back until my team respawns to prevent the enemy team pushing.

2. Assassinate someone. Rarely possible. Stealth is poorly implemented and way too easy to detect (Scanners, HUD, Pred, Messages, etc.)

3. Hide. The best thing you can do in TDM is hide when your team fails. Just wait (which can take up to 10 minutes) for one lonely enemy and oneshot him. Rarely works as well due to the long waiting time.

 

 

An individual should have more power and TDM mode is more like mass instead of class. The amount of DPS, guns, mechs and stuff like that decides the outcome of a battle. Not the skill by certain palyers (here is the problem).

Sticking to your team should not grant you instant success. 

 

And what happens when all players stick to your team? Death Ballz. 

 

Additionally, lower this secondaries spam. I rememebr the old Hawken having slow RoF of secondaries which was pretty good cause if you miss one shot, you have a clear disadvantage when the enemy decides to engage now. But these days, one Rocketeer/Bruiser is enough to spam spam spam rockets rockets rockets.

Players don't mind missing, even I don't mind. Spam EOC pucks and hope for some assists.

 

 

To be honest, I don't really have an idea how to solve deathballz and 6-player-tactic OP except these:

 

1. Let EMP be used like Detonator (Press fire mechanism again for manual detonation)*

2. Lower RoF of secondaries (all) and increase dmg slightly (this would cause the TTK to rise a tiny bit).

3. Increase heatgen for all wepaons except for Inci and remove 3-sec-insta-cooldown. This would cause atleast some kind of heat management.

 

Basically two tweaks to lower the spam and one tweak to have atleast one thing which is effective against a whole team as an individual.

 

 

Thank you for your attention.

 

If you didn't read everything, I am not thanking you for your not paid attention :]


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#2
Miscellaneous

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1. Let EMP be used like Detonator (Press fire mechanism again for manual detonation)*

 

NO.

 

NEVER AGAIN.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.

NONOONONONONONONONONONO.

 

IT WAS OP BEFORE, LET'S NOT BRING THAT BACK PLZ


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#3
Aregon

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3. Hide.

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#4
Amidatelion

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An individual should have more power and TDM mode is more like mass instead of class.

 

 


An individual should have more power and TDM mode

 

 


An individual should have more power and Team DeathMatch

 

 


individual

 

 

Team

 

No.


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#5
ThirdEyE

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Can we also please not make awful thread titles? Put the thread topic in the title, it's not that hard.


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#6
Merl61

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Your thread is bad and you should feel bad.
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#7
Armymonger

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The games are never a loss.

You only lose if you suck major donkey balls and don't get paid anything.
Which...is only possible if you don't do ANYTHING.

And...if I'm not mistaken, there was this ONE guy in a previous match where he was on our team.
...which sucked. Really. We sucked.
I was second on the team. With...100 or 200 points. This guy was banking 700 to 800 on a TDM.
While the other guys were pretty decent.

Needless to say...he carried us...for Three whole games straight. Each a win.

What is this individual nonsense you speak of?

Edited by Armymonger, 16 April 2015 - 09:39 AM.

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#8
BaronSaturday

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Um... This game is about team tactics. It's designed with teamwork in mind.
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#9
CrimsonKaim

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Um... This game is about team tactics. It's designed with teamwork in mind.

 

Wrong. It is about mass. The more palyers in one team, the higher the chance you win.

 

Tactical and strategic stuff only exists in MA and Siege as there are a clear front line, objectives and other resources to take care of. In TDM, the easiest mode of all (that's why it is a beginner mode), offers nothing except boring shooting of every average shooter. No flags to capture, no hill to conquer. Casically hold down Mouse buttons. That is what you do in TDM. Nothing more.

 

Maybe flanking but you can't deal serious damage to a team all by yourself, and by damage I do not mean damage regarding hitpoints. If someone is flanking, a team should push but due to the lack of communication, noone will do anything. It will forever remain at the two deathballs and it is not a question of skill.

 

There is a reason why the majority plays a beginner mode.


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#10
BaronSaturday

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Wrong. It is about mass. The more palyers in one team, the higher the chance you win.

Tactical and strategic stuff only exists in MA and Siege as there are a clear front line, objectives and other resources to take care of. In TDM, the easiest mode of all (that's why it is a beginner mode), offers nothing except boring shooting of every average shooter. No flags to capture, no hill to conquer. Casically hold down Mouse buttons. That is what you do in TDM. Nothing more.

Maybe flanking but you can't deal serious damage to a team all by yourself, and by damage I do not mean damage regarding hitpoints. If someone is flanking, a team should push but due to the lack of communication, noone will do anything. It will forever remain at the two deathballs and it is not a question of skill.

There is a reason why the majority plays a beginner mode.


That's your opinion. That's also my opinion. I don't play TDM very often. And deathballing is a tactic. It's kind of what happened on D-day and on the Russian front. Is it cheezy? Yeah. But it's still a tactic and it seems pretty effective. I will note that deathballing is countered by a good surround with good splash.

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#11
Elite_is_salty

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bad thread is bad. big ego is big.


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#12
Aregon

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That's your opinion. That's also my opinion. I don't play TDM very often. And deathballing is a tactic. It's kind of what happened on D-day and on the Russian front. Is it cheezy? Yeah. But it's still a tactic and it seems pretty effective. I will note that deathballing is countered by a good surround with good splash.

I am pretty sure they used "proper" tactics during the D-Day, and had Stalin during the push towards Nazi-Germany.


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#13
BaronSaturday

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I am pretty sure they used "proper" tactics during the D-Day, and had Stalin during the push towards Nazi-Germany.


Not the initial stage of D-Day. They were told part a was to shoot guns and run as close to the turrets as possible. Once there, proceed with part b.

And Russia was just Stalin the Nazis until the allies finished Hitlering them. Get it? Puns. Like how Vladimir is Putin his hands all over everything.

Okay. I'll stop...

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#14
CrimsonKaim

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I am pretty sure they used "proper" tactics during the D-Day, and had Stalin during the push towards Nazi-Germany.

 

Yes, I myself had to present like hours regarding that stuff. It was actually pretty complicated. TDM is not. It is senseless shooting and has ever been this. Every newbie can understand and play TDM. Stick to your team. That's all.

 

Too easy. And there are no alternatives. 


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#15
Armymonger

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Yes, I myself had to present like hours regarding that stuff. It was actually pretty complicated. TDM is not. It is senseless shooting and has ever been this. Every newbie can understand and play TDM. Stick to your team. That's all.
 
Too easy. And there are no alternatives.


Aaannnddd...you expected something different when you entered a team death match?
Emphasis on Team?
While it may not be a COHESIVE TEAM like a special ops team and more along the lines of a CoD team where everyone does their own bullshite...
You still get people to fight with. That's a team. Is it organized? Nah.
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#16
n3onfx

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2. Lower RoF of secondaries (all) and increase dmg slightly (this would cause the TTK to rise a tiny bit).

 

 

 

Problem with this is that it would mean I would be able to one-shot an A class when playing Raider. To be honest I would love that, but I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't like it. But you can't either increase the damage for everybody except the Raider, while as well increasing the reload time which is already huge on the Raider without effectively buffing every mech while nerfing the Raider.


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#17
CrimsonKaim

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Problem with this is that it would mean I would be able to one-shot an A class when playing Raider. To be honest I would love that, but I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't like it. But you can't either increase the damage for everybody except the Raider, while as well increasing the reload time which is already huge on the Raider without effectively buffing every mech while nerfing the Raider.

 

I wouldn't mind leaving the raider as it is but then the Corsair would just be as similar as GL and TOW are.

 

Oh, and you can ohneshot A-Classes. Pretty much with every burst class.


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#18
Amidatelion

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I wouldn't mind leaving the raider as it is but then the Corsair would just be as similar as GL and TOW are.

 

Oh, and you can ohneshot A-Classes. Pretty much with every burst class.

 

False.


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#19
CrimsonKaim

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False.

 

Right. Potential Oneshotters:

 

Infiltrator

Raider

G2 Raider

Scout


Edited by FakeName, 17 April 2015 - 05:15 AM.

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#20
n3onfx

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Right. Potential Oneshotters:

 

Infiltrator

Raider

G2 Raider

Scout

 

Still can't oneshot an A class with those, not without items and I'm not even sure the det or grenade item allow to oneshot. Maybe EOC Raider can oneshot some a classes when fully charged, and I'm not even sure it can.


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#21
Amidatelion

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Right. Potential Oneshotters:

 

Infiltrator

Raider

G2 Raider

Scout

 

You cannot one shot any mech with any of those. The closest you can come is a Sharpshooter on a tech.

 

Stop making fuzzy bunny up. 

 

You are probably talking about taking out a damaged mech in one salvo. That isn't one-shotting. One-shotting is bringing a mech from 100% to 0% in one salvo. Which no mech can do because it was an explicit design choice on the part of the developers.


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#22
Armymonger

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Right. Potential Oneshotters:
 
Infiltrator
Raider
G2 Raider
Scout


I'd have to first nail a direct hit with my corsair.
Then I'd have to take about three or four shots with a REflak.
Maybe more. Course, there's always a charged up T32 with a corsair...but still.
Not a one shot.

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#23
mittens800

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Agree that OP has BAD IDEAS.

Team match is team match... does it even make sense for you to win if your team loses?

 

Just find find a new server, sheesh.

 

Also RE carrying - it only works on lower level servers with really bad players.

One good player can wipe the floor.  On higher level servers it's hard to do this.


Edited by mittens800, 16 April 2015 - 01:22 PM.

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#24
Nept

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To be blunt, this thread feels like the sort someone would make after having lost a few TDM rounds in succession.  I'd say outright "No" to the OP's suggestion that TDM losses not count against their record.  It's a team-based gametype.  Sometimes your team will lose.  Tough cookies.

 

"Tactical and strategic stuff" doesn't exist only in MA and Siege.  Teams don't require objectives to formulate strategies or to operate according to small-group tactics. 


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#25
BluetoothBoy

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Right. Potential Oneshotters:
 
Infiltrator
Raider
G2 Raider
Scout

The only "one-shot" in the game is with EOC Repeater and/or mines... And that's not really one shot, but many combined shots.

#26
Nightfirebolt

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If you don't like team deathmatch, don't play it.

 

Let's be honest - Rallying your team into a fist-sized knot of mechs is the only viable strategy when it comes down to it. And if you don't like playing that way, play another game mode instead.

 

Simple.


Edited by Nightfirebolt, 16 April 2015 - 10:12 PM.


#27
talon70

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Not make this equation be true:

 

"....

3. Hide. The best thing you can do in TDM is hide when your team fails. Just wait (which can take up to 10 minutes) for one lonely enemy and oneshot him. Rarely works as well due to the long waiting time.

....."

:rolleyes: :wallbash:



#28
Source_Mystic

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Although every hawken player  that plays hawken tdm has been on the slaughter or be slaughtered team. The weapons are fine for the most part. TDM is team death match   ( TEAM ) that means if you and team are not using group tactics you will suffer. If you want an individual skill test go play DEATH MATCH. seriously it will make you a better player. Also learn different mechs  incinerator , grenadier pred and several support mechs change the team dynamics and can overturn death balls IF caught early.


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#29
JeffMagnum

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l2p and carry harder or don't complain


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#30
CrimsonKaim

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I'd have to first nail a direct hit with my corsair.
Then I'd have to take about three or four shots with a REflak.
Maybe more. Course, there's always a charged up T32 with a corsair...but still.
Not a one shot.


Uhm what did you say? Bolt? Flak? Hahahahahahahahahahahahaa
Hihihihihihi

It is sad that I have to mention the EOC.


Edited by FakeName, 17 April 2015 - 03:30 AM.

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#31
CrimsonKaim

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The only "one-shot" in the game is with EOC Repeater and/or mines... And that's not really one shot, but many combined shots.


Call it how you want, what matters is that the time passed from the beginning of the fight to the end is only the time that passes where the projectiles travel to its destonation.

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#32
MomOw

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I've have seen many top tier players soloing in 1900MMR servers in EU. Do you really want them to be even more... greedy ?

And fuzzy bunny A-class already owns "Origin" map.

 

I do agree that "hit and run" is somewhat hard against organized teams and useless if the ennemy team have a Tech, and lack of teamplay really punish flanking tactics.

I do agree that stealth could be reworked (make the ennemies appear on the reticule only after you hit them and not before, reduce the blur when they stand still, stuff like that)

 

Also the lack of options to communicate lead to simple roflstomp deathballs, if you could have "fallback", "push", "Warning" keys it could help. Or teamspeak but I live in babel europe so teamspeak is not an easy way.

 

Slight changes could do it.


Edited by MomOw, 16 April 2015 - 09:01 PM.

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#33
LoC_TR

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Can we also please not make awful thread titles? Put the thread topic in the title, it's not that hard.

I didnt want to bump this thread but you mad me spit out my beer.

 

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I'll just leave this here....


Edited by LoC_TR, 16 April 2015 - 10:36 PM.


#34
CrimsonKaim

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You cannot one shot any mech with any of those. The closest you can come is a Sharpshooter on a tech.

 

Stop making fuzzy bunny up. 

 

You are probably talking about taking out a damaged mech in one salvo. That isn't one-shotting. One-shotting is bringing a mech from 100% to 0% in one salvo. Which no mech can do because it was an explicit design choice on the part of the developers.

 

You seem to not be that much experienced.

 

Just an example. 

An Infiltrator can one-shot/one-combo-kill/insta-kill/whatever the following mechs:

 

Scout

Infiltrator

Technician

 

... at full health.

 

Just sayin'. And a Raider can oneshot every A class.


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#35
BaronSaturday

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You seem to not be that much experienced.

Just an example.
An Infiltrator can one-shot/one-combo-kill/insta-kill/whatever the following mechs:

Scout
Infiltrator
Technician

... at full health.

Just sayin'. And a Raider can oneshot every A class.


Also, I've been Alpha'd by preds in my Tech. If they lay all of there mines and I step on them, I die.

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#36
Houruck

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Alpha Strike is a thing again.

 

Also, I've been Alpha'd by preds in my Tech. If they lay all of there mines and I step on them, I die.

Every time a tech dies an angel gets his wings.


Edited by Houruck, 17 April 2015 - 04:14 AM.

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#37
CrimsonKaim

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Also, I've been Alpha'd by preds in my Tech. If they lay all of there mines and I step on them, I die.

 

The Predator is special and lays traps instead of walking to its target and oneshotting it without any environmental influences.


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#38
Hyginos

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Alright lets put this to bed:

 

Best case landing everything:

Infiltrator (EOC): 281, 341 with det
Raider (EOC): 300, 360 with det
G2 Raider (charged T32): 288, 348 with det
Scout (Flak): 233, 293 with det

Predator (EOC): 221, 281 with det

Sharpshooter (Powershot, slug, scoped) 212, 272 with det

 

So if you allow for items 3 of the 4 mechs FakeName originally mentioned can one shot stuff. Otherwise none of them can, though the EOC raider comes close.


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#39
nilesy

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Wow...more complaining from FakeName, damn bro why do you even play if everything upsets you



#40
Fstroke

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My head hurts. That was just a disjointed hodge podge of popular topics with nothing to do with each other followed by a wish list. 0/10
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