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Why Scanner is Broken in 20 Seconds

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#1
Merl61

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#2
angryhampster

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shouldive kept your post count at 666.  :(  you ruins it!!!

 

eidt:  scanner isn't overpowered, because in competitive gaming, it is banned.


Edited by angryhampster, 13 February 2016 - 04:24 PM.


#3
Nov8tr

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No respectable player EVER uses ones.


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#4
DemitronPrime

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scanners are quite easily worked around however, you can use a scrambler for one....

 

I mean I have just recently put scanners on a couple mechs to try them out, i dont find fuzzy bunny all advantage really, you may know WHERE the enemy is in a certain radius, but by the time you pop yourself into ambush, they generally know your there too,

 

specially when teammates dont maintain radar silence very often...

 

 

No respectable player EVER uses ones.

 

this im not so sure about


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#5
Nov8tr

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EVER


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"Nov8tr" is pronounced "INNOVATOR"

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#6
kaiserschmarrn_

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scanners are quite easily worked around however, you can use a scrambler for one....

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#7
DemitronPrime

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A cheetah laughing ?

 

Some how seems a fitting self display kaiser ^_^


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#8
HubbaBubba9849

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I've watched the video over several times and I cant find where the video indicates scanners being broken. Help me out here.


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#9
angryhampster

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I've watched the video over several times and I cant find where the video indicates scanners being broken. Help me out here.

 

it's much more simpler than you think

 

its like a map hack, that is legal.


Edited by angryhampster, 13 February 2016 - 05:49 PM.


#10
DemitronPrime

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it's broken because, the person knows exactly where the other person is at, because of the radar scrambler.

 

it's like, 1+1 equals 2, but it's soo simple you think it's complex, like my sex life.   which is appparently non-existent at the moment. and the reason i shared is for reasons unknown.

 

scramblers provide almost like a "scanner" effect for the person that drops them... aside from just scrambling scanners and radars....

 

Hence my previous statement...

 

scanners are not broken, they just are not as op as SOME people make out....

"players sucks, puts scanner in his mech... Player still sucks..." <-- truth


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#11
kaiserschmarrn_

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lol



#12
Merl61

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I've watched the video over several times and I cant find where the video indicates scanners being broken. Help me out here.

Sharpshooter coming down bridge. Scout hidden waiting to ambush. Sharpshooter puts down scanner. Scanner reveals scout. Sharpshooter backs away. 


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#13
DemitronPrime

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umm i think in which case it works exactly as it is intended to work... js


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#14
americanbrit14

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scramblers provide almost like a "scanner" effect for the person that drops them... aside from just scrambling scanners and radars....

 

Hence my previous statement...

 

scanners are not broken, they just are not as op as SOME people make out....

"players sucks, puts scanner in his mech... Player still sucks..." <-- truth

What...

 

Scrambler gives absolutely no effect for the person that drops it, it only mucks up the radar of the enemy's, and is easily seen through.

 

Scanner on the other hand allows the entire team to see any enemy inside its radius perfectly, and you can't even hear it until you're far inside its range so its not like you will know you're being seen, that is until a horde of enemies come along and gang bang you because they all know exactly where you are.


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#15
DemitronPrime

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Drop a scrambler and look :P i use them alot on my scout, i find when i drop it, if they are inside the radius ring thingy i can see them ^_^


Edited by DemitronPrime, 13 February 2016 - 08:59 PM.

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#16
americanbrit14

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But, they don't.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube....ed/nhmFZo6CQew"frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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#17
DemitronPrime

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thats odd, it does for me...

 

unless i went full tard and didnt realize that it could be L.O.S lol 

 

highly possible


Edited by DemitronPrime, 13 February 2016 - 09:51 PM.

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#18
HorseHeadProphet

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Yeah...the scanner is almost universally reviled, considered super-skrub-status, and in comp play, outright banned. I won't even run it, and I'm an orb-gobbling Vulcan addict. 

 

Most experienced players can see straight through a scrambler and differentiate the false radar blips from the real ones, either by the way they move, or the blips that you see instantly pop up, in places where you know there are no enemies. It does succeed in making your enemies' radar less useful, since it takes a second or two longer to read the radar, and there are plenty of people playing who are completely bamboozled by scramblers. Hell, there are tons of people who seemingly don't even know what the radar is.


Edited by HorseHeadProphet, 14 February 2016 - 06:47 AM.

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The Hawken forum's a forum, but it's like the only one you get yelled at for using.


#19
JackVandal

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The only time iv seen scramblers being effective is when a team is already not very radar observant, or when the radius of like 3 overlap, the sheer number of false signatures(scrambler buff?) makes it effective.


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#20
HubbaBubba9849

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What if scramblers, instead of making fake dots, just hid all enemy dots to those in the affected area?


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#21
DemitronPrime

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What if scramblers, instead of making fake dots, just hid all enemy dots to those in the affected area?

 

What if a enemy scrambler hid all enemy dots AND your own TEAM in the affected area.....


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#22
crockrocket

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 I won't even run it, and I'm an orb-gobbling Vulcan addict. 

 

 

Scanner so broken you can see it through cheese


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#23
ArchMech

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Valuable conversations are valued

 

this thread valued at = null


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don't mind me, i'm just on a crusade against humanity, by the end of my lifespan earth's population will be 8 billion+ trolls


#24
ArchMech

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what if.....we all had hestoneds hearing/peripherals?


don't mind me, i'm just on a crusade against humanity, by the end of my lifespan earth's population will be 8 billion+ trolls


#25
cavefishes

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shouldive kept your post count at 666. :( you ruins it!!!

eidt: scanner isn't overpowered, because in competitive gaming, it is banned.

You've got it a little mixed up: it's banned in comp play because it's broken. Making people not use it doesn't make it any less broken.

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#26
CoshCaust

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So many other aspects of this game are more broken than Scanners, idk why the hate is so focused on them. They're one of the only controversial things that i've never felt were OP.



#27
crockrocket

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So many other aspects of this game are more broken than Scanners, idk why the hate is so focused on them. They're one of the only controversial things that i've never felt were OP.


Then you should pay more attention to radar

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#28
TheButtSatisfier

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So many other aspects of this game are more broken than Scanners, idk why the hate is so focused on them. They're one of the only controversial things that i've never felt were OP.

 

There is no other item, internal, or weapon that can single-handedly give every member of your team the kind of advantage that a scanner does.

 

And you can equip three of them.


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#29
harmless_kittens

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I don't get it.  How do you break a scanner in 20 seconds?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:)


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#30
CoshCaust

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Then you should pay more attention to radar

I don't think you get what I mean- I utilize radar plenty, but the Scanner is just another crutch replacing developed skill like game sense. It's just not much of a bother when you know what you're doing in certain ways, and you know the enemy is using them.
...Most of the time.
Yeah, comp games are probably better off without them I suppose.

 

I don't get it.  How do you break a scanner in 20 seconds?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:)

The term 'broken' refers to the balance of that thing being off somehow; in this context, it means that the Scanner is OP (overpowered). The title can be read "Why the Scanner is overpowered, in 20 seconds.". In the video we see OP (original poster [of the thread]) find himself in an opportunity to surprise/flank an opponent when they don't know he's there- but then the enemy lays down a Scanner and can now see on the radar where OP is lurking.

 

EDIT: Shiiiiiii.....that smiley face at the end...did I just fall for sarcasm? You're a mystery, harmless_kittens...


Edited by CoshCaust, 18 February 2016 - 01:41 PM.


#31
harmless_kittens

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 Well, I was only acting naive (hence the lower smiley) to lighten the mood a little.

 

But the more I think about this, isn't it doing exactly what the DEVs intended it to do?  I think it is, but many just don't like what it does.  Is that a fair way to describe the "problem"?  As a really weak player myself I could see the benefits to something like this, though I haven't tried it yet.

 

Along these same lines, I don't really like Technicians being in the game.  They just give back all the damage I'm dealing to these heavies and make me think "What's the point"?  I've been in matches that were totally lopsided losses because we didn't have an effective way to counter the multiple Tech-Heavy combos.  But in like manner, I've heard some say "Just do it back to them!"  Sounds fair enough.  Why doesn't that work here?  If you don't like the enemy team running Scanners (which seem to be "banned" now anyway?), why not just run scanners on your own team and level the playing field?

 

By that same token, should Predators be banned because they can see all enemy mechs when stealthed?  Sounds like they're doing pretty much the same thing as a scanner.  If it'd been a cloaked Predator in that vid changing his plan of attack when he saw the Scout we'd be saying "Yep, that's what Stealth lets you do."  And a Pred can use the Stealth infinitely.  What, exactly, is different with the scanner?

 

I'm new and naive, so I admit something may be really obviously wrong or abusive with this item and I'm just missing it.  If so, please correct me gently :)  But so far it just seems to me like people don't like being seen when they think they're hidden.

 

(Lol.  I'm also trying to see this logic play out in real life combat.  "Dear good guys.  It's come to our attention that your expensive satellites can see us bad guys from space, and we don't have any satellites ourselves, so its not fair.  Please consider satellites "banned" now.  Thanks.")


Edited by harmless_kittens, 18 February 2016 - 01:55 PM.

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#32
Hyginos

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-tech and pred-

 

The important thing about tech and pred is that they both have notable trade offs that can be leveraged against them. The tech, for example, has the lowest HP of any mech in the game and essentially has half firepower outside of about 30 meters. The pred Has fairly low armor, and its ability reveals enemy mech positions only to the pred (the scanner reveals locations to teammates as well). Plus, the pred with its ability up must avoid using fuel or taking damage in all capacities to keep that up, and it's combat potential is much more difficult to access than other mechs. The fact that both of these are mechs (and thus take up a slot that could have been held by a less-niche combatant) presents another trade-off.

 

Scanner, on the other hand, gives you and everyone on your team omniscient map hacks for essentially zero effort.


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#33
harmless_kittens

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So has it been used in the past for coordinated team-mates to set them up all over the battlefield so that they always know where the enemy is, or is it still a big problem if just one player uses one?

 

Also, I assume these can be located and destroyed just like scramblers and turrets?  If its a problem of not noticing it until you're dead then maybe they just need to put a blinking dot on enemy radar alerting them to where it is?

 

And, again, maybe I'm trying to take the "realism" aspect a little far, but surveillance is a BIG part of warfare - always has been.  I'm just not getting why its bad here, especially if you can use the very same technology/strategy yourself.



#34
TURDxSANDWICH

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But the more I think about this, isn't it doing exactly what the DEVs intended it to do?  I think it is, but many just don't like what it does.  Is that a fair way to describe the "problem"?  

 

...

 

 If you don't like the enemy team running Scanners (which seem to be "banned" now anyway?), why not just run scanners on your own team and level the playing field?

 

...

 

(Lol.  I'm also trying to see this logic play out in real life combat.  "Dear good guys.  It's come to our attention that your expensive satellites can see us bad guys from space, and we don't have any satellites ourselves, so its not fair.  Please consider satellites "banned" now.  Thanks.")

 

 

I think Hyginos did a good job of describing that the Tech and Pred were designed with offsets to balance their respective abilities.  There has been some debate as to whether they are actually properly balanced, but those threads (as well as plenty on the scanner) can be found elsewhere.

 

As far as the scanner goes, this isn't real life combat where one nation's technical superiority should be a distinct advantage in battle.  This is a video game which should have sound game balance design principles in place.  Hawken has a great game mechanic where players show up on radar for doing specific things (boosting, hovering, and shooting) or are otherwise not shown on the radar.  This is a key, fundamental aspect of the game and something all players must learn and know how to manipulate, or else be at a distinct disadvantage.  But, the scanner completely breaks this basic game mechanic.  All one player has to do is drop one scanner, and now one entire team knows exactly where the other entire team is on the battlefield.  And just saying the other team should also employ scanners only serves to further break the on radar/not on radar game mechanic.  If having a scanner is such an advantage that both teams must employ them, then why even bother with the on radar/not on radar mechanic at all?  That is what it means that the scanner is broken.  Using it effectively in its current state actually breaks fundamental game mechanics.

 

 

(and as for your fights with the heavy/tech combo... focus on the tech... kill it first, then move on to the rest of the team.  its actually very easy to kill when your team focuses on killing it first instead of unloading into a heavy sponge supported by a tech.)


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#35
talon70

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It seems to me  the radar scrambler should scramble  any radar scanner. That is only logical.

 

Maybe a way for the devs make the scanner workable would be drastically reduce both radius and duration. Also a pilot should have an alert if he is in a scanners range.


Edited by talon70, 18 February 2016 - 02:32 PM.

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#36
TheButtSatisfier

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So has it been used in the past for coordinated team-mates to set them up all over the battlefield so that they always know where the enemy is, or is it still a big problem if just one player uses one?

 

Since battles in Hawken tend to coalesce in one or two areas the size of a scanner's range, you generally only need one scanner in one high-traffic area for them to be effective.

 

Also, I assume these can be located and destroyed just like scramblers and turrets?  If its a problem of not noticing it until you're dead then maybe they just need to put a blinking dot on enemy radar alerting them to where it is?

 

They can be destroyed, but that comes at a cost. Now your attention is focused on destroying this pulsing hellspawn in a corner. If this were a MG or rocket turret you could go on your merry way, but no. This is a scanner, and if you can hear it, then every person on the other team knows where you are. They know where your nearby buddies are too. The pred, the infil, the disciplined guy not bunnyhopping around a battlezone, everyone. Do you kill it? Do you run? Well, this time you decide to kill it.

 

Most times they aren't placed out in the open, so you won't always have a clear shot towards it unless you walk/run out of your way to kill it. Now you aren't paying attention to the enemy who just shoved a TOW up your butt, costing you 125 health - and that's assuming they haven't already opened up with their primary. It's okay, go ahead and turn around and try to line up a return shot, but not too quickly now! There's a turn rate cap, so you are giving precious deciseconds to your foe while you struggle to line up your shot while they're already maneuvering for cover, primary still roaring, and about a half-second away from gifting you another TOW before they are out of your reach.


Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 18 February 2016 - 02:56 PM.

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#37
angryhampster

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Scanner is definitely not broken, just use a scrambler to balance it out.

 

See, you balance a horrible cheating item with another horrible cheating item. 



#38
TheButtSatisfier

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Scanner is definitely not broken, just use a scrambler to balance it out.

 

See, you balance a horrible cheating item with another horrible cheating item. 

 

Please explain how scramblers are as "broken" as scanners are.


Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 18 February 2016 - 03:12 PM.

8) Tech in the streets, Brawler in the sheets (8


#39
Amidatelion

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Scanner is definitely not broken, just use a scrambler to balance it out.

See, you balance a horrible cheating item with another horrible cheating item.


Except any fuzzy bunny can tell a scrambler dot from a real dot with 5 seconds of study of the radar and any vet can do it without any study at all.

#40
angryhampster

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Except any fuzzy bunny can tell a scrambler dot from a real dot with 5 seconds of study of the radar and any vet can do it without any study at all.

 

im not a fuzzy bunny so i couldn't tell. =(


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