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Question to the devs: Do you trust the community and believe their reports?

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#1
Elite_is_salty

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For months, community members have been reporting aimbotters, trolls ... and almost all of them don't seem to have ANY worries.

 

They be like "DEAL WITH IT" because they strongly believe NO ACTIONS will be taken against them and unfortunately it's been true -very true- so far.

 

I hope this can be a little kind reminder to the devs/support team that actions should be taken against such people who are having their way as of right now.


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#2
OdinTheWise

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they may not have the manpower for this


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#3
Panzermanathod

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Yeah. At this point they have a large number of things on their plate and not enough time as of yet to really take care of things.


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#4
6ixxer

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*Some* people cannot tell the difference to an experience player with good anticipation

The devs don't necessarily know who is making the right call.

If you have solid video evidence then upload it an link to them via relevant support channels.

 

It would be good if CapnJosh could at least respond to tickets saying they have added players to a watch list for when they are able to work on banning cheaters.


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#5
Xer06siX

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Folks who rely on software in order to boost their performance are the real losers. They will never make it in serious competition without it. Just like HGH / Steroids in high physical sporting. Don't feel so bad if you run across them online.


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#6
Elite_is_salty

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Folks who rely on software in order to boost their performance are the real losers. They will never make it in serious competition without it. Just like HGH / Steroids in high physical sporting. Don't feel so bad if you run across them online.

 

The problem isn't really about just me. But when you have a very decent server and a such person ruins the game, most people might leave and you end up back in the hunt for a fine game. It gets irritating.

 

Me? Look at my name.


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#7
Niels

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Folks who rely on software in order to boost their performance are the real losers. They will never make it in serious competition without it. Just like HGH / Steroids in high physical sporting. Don't feel so bad if you run across them online.

 

Yeah, I don't think most cheaters care about that. Hell I'm not a cheater and I couldn't care less about serious competition. I just want to have some mindless fun when I play, to unwind from stress.

 

Cheaters get in the way of that and it's annoying.


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#8
CrimsonKaim

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They are not even really into Hawken, still right at the beginning of the beginning. Hawken is not revived yet. Consider Hawken still being in the death phase.

 

We don't have a dev team yet, more like a "will-be-recruit-team". Give them time .. more time. The return of devs hyped Hawken abit too much once again I suppose.


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#9
Shoutaxeror

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Why would they answer "no" ?


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#10
Buster X

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yes



#11
Skrill

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I have been playing this game since alpha 2 and have come across only one aimbotter in the last three years. Advanced players can predict your movements and compensate for it accordingly. This leads to a ton of groundless accusations and pointless forum threads. This game has been around for a while now. Expect people to know what they are doing and to be better than you. The community is very nice and many top tier players are more than willing to spend some time teaching you. Its just as boring stomping as being stomped after you have done it enough.


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#12
OmegaNull

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I myself have ran into a few aimbotters (about 5 or 6) but many of them are gone so it doesn't really matter. However, what you said is true there skrill.


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#13
Nightfirebolt

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Patience.

 

Reloaded will have a proper support team eventually.

 

For now, just dominate noobs who are using aimbots as usual. It's not hard to do. Usually hackers are terrible players - that's why they hack in the first place.


Edited by Nightfirebolt, 12 June 2015 - 05:14 PM.

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#14
Odinous

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the past months,in many matches so many good players are called cheaters and etc just because they killed someone using their brain actually.just saying....But give Reloaded some more time and the true chetares will get what they deserve..


Edited by Odinous, 14 June 2015 - 05:54 PM.

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#15
Veklim

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I can't argue with the *very few* examples of posted recordings documenting actual aimbotting taking place, these people should be dealt with (in due time, pending resources/manpower, yaddy yah) BUT it should be mentioned, even I have been accused of 'cheating' somehow when simply playing well, and I'm not even that good   o_O

 

Half the issue here is players being all too ready to call someone out as a cheater simply because they're playing well and using a modicum of intellect in their game. Once this knee-jerk response is lessened, I will have far more time and sympathy for the debate, but until then I fear I, as many other experienced players, will simply dismiss the discussions outright, since (in my experience at least) a good 95% of the accusations are both unfounded and unfair.


Edited by Veklim, 13 June 2015 - 05:42 AM.

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#16
Nept

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Half the issue here is players being all too ready to call someone out as a cheater simply because they're playing well and using a modicum of intellect in their game. Once this knee-jerk response is lessened, I will have far more time and sympathy for the debate, but until then I fear I, as many other experienced players, will simply dismiss the discussions outright, since (in my experience at least) a good 95% of the accusations are both unfounded and unfair.

 

Although it's true that most hackusations are products of frustration and inexperience, it's unlikely that public accusations over the forums would cause much issue.  The vet community's familiar with hacks - at least in the context of Hawken - and won't mindlessly jump to conclusions.  Anyone that were falsely accused would be cleared quite quickly.

 

*Edit* In fact, my typical response to in-game accusations is to tell people to make a forum post about it.


Edited by Nept, 13 June 2015 - 07:35 AM.

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#17
GalaxyRadio

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I have been playing this game since alpha 2 and have come across only one aimbotter in the last three years. Advanced players can predict your movements and compensate for it accordingly. This leads to a ton of groundless accusations and pointless forum threads. This game has been around for a while now. Expect people to know what they are doing and to be better than you. The community is very nice and many top tier players are more than willing to spend some time teaching you. Its just as boring stomping as being stomped after you have done it enough.

 

I played almost every day againts very bad and skilled hackers and some of them have more then 1 account. Its not rare, its very actual and now worse then before because the new dev team takes no action.

 

Caught already 1 and made a video and report him soon, its already uploaded on youtube. And i will make some more following those hackers. Many skilled players cant be caught by "snapping", because they use smooth aimbotting or only wallhack to get the upperhand or going for repairing mechs with alphastrike like 1 person in this thread does very often. Someone in this forum posted a lot about those tools, what they can do or not, its painful.

 

Hope the devs will go againts them and clean up hawken. This is 1 of the reasons why i dont like multiplayer/onlinegames.

 

And one of my clanmates told me, that a know predator player from russia is known as a ahcker at least for him, because he saw him in a hackerforum, don't ask me, how he got this information. I won't name him here. So i take this topic very seriously.

 

Galaxy Radio


Edited by GalaxyRadio, 14 June 2015 - 01:39 PM.


#18
Odinous

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maybe instead of posting any video of accussasions on forums,doing this instead on a support ticket?and let reloaded deal with them?



#19
brackets

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maybe instead of posting any video of accussasions on forums,doing this instead on a support ticket?and let reloaded deal with them?

 

If Reloaded were doing anything about botters, then this would be a great option. They're not - hence this thread.



#20
JeffMagnum

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Although it's true that most hackusations are products of frustration and inexperience, it's unlikely that public accusations over the forums would cause much issue.  The vet community's familiar with hacks - at least in the context of Hawken - and won't mindlessly jump to conclusions.  Anyone that were falsely accused would be cleared quite quickly.

 

*Edit* In fact, my typical response to in-game accusations is to tell people to make a forum post about it.

 

Has that ever worked for you? I've been telling people to do the same thing for maybe a year now but I don't think I've ever seen anyone make a thread. 


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#21
-Tj-

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Honestly getting sick of these cheaters. Started the night off with one, only for that cheater to quit and another to enter the match. Left for a meal, came back, and the first cheater of the night was back in. For all I know, they could have been the same player with two different accounts. I've seen both cheaters in the game before. One was calling hackusations on another player who wasn't cheating, but others were starting to believe it. Yes, the cheater was calling a legitimate player a hacker and others were believing the cheater.



#22
HepTagoN

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Just add spectate mode - cheap and efficient way to get rid of noob cheaters. Plus newbies could learn thing or 2. Plus, It would allow to add players in pairs to teams in midmatch. So 3v3 4v4 5v5 (after That, It doesnt matter) wont be ruined. Atm good people "sit out" until teams are even,and get bored or idiots join and ruin match. But eh, we can talk about it as much as we want, pointless until devs will prove that that at least read it.


Edited by HepTagoN, 15 June 2015 - 11:49 AM.

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#23
WmMoneyFrmMissouri

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Have come across a few aim botters (zero doubt) in my short time with the game. Annoying but a new wrinkle to learn how to fight. Typically doesn't go well for me but at least I can get myself to an angle where I can have some fun with it. What annoys me are the guys who have learned to hop over the shield before start of game. Is this a hack or map flaw? I'd like this fixed as the perps typically get a few quick kills then everything goes back to normal where basically it becomes water under bridge but they've hopped out in front pretty well. For some reason they're usually on my team and I'll call them out as they're racing for the other side before game starts so it minimizes this a bit but this seems like an easy fix. Just my thought on the subject.
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#24
-Tj-

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What annoys me are the guys who have learned to hop over the shield before start of game. Is this a hack or map flaw? I'd like this fixed as the perps typically get a few quick kills then everything goes back to normal where basically it becomes water under bridge but they've hopped out in front pretty well.

It's a flaw. They just didn't build the start walls high enough in some areas.



#25
Chickin

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And one of my clanmates told me, that a know predator player from russia is known as a ahcker at least for him, because he saw him in a hackerforum, don't ask me, how he got this information. I won't name him here. So i take this topic very seriously.

 

Galaxy Radio

 

If this guy plays on EU, he would surely be spotted by now, easily.

As far as I know, no one from Russia plays Predator.

There are just few EU pilots ( I know of 2) who play it as their main mech and both of them are great people and genuine pilots.

Unless you have solid evidence please refer from these hearsay/ my friend over at the hacker forum saw...../

and those kinds of statements as it can damage EU predator pilots,their relations and general pilot interaction.

There is already too much paranoia in such small group of people. 

 

 

to Yob and Emily


Edited by ILikeChickens, 16 June 2015 - 05:16 AM.

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#26
JeffMagnum

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I don't want to start fuzzy bunny with this idea, but would a hidden forum only accessible to very high-MMR players who know what to look for with hacks be acceptable if it cut down Reloaded's workload enough to get people promptly banned/suspended? Topics with video evidence submitted to support could be posted about specific users and the people in that thread could then vote to decide whether or not the accusations should be dropped without further investigation or if Reloaded should take a very close look at someone. The criteria for being included wouldn't necessarily have to be based on MMR, but that seems to be the easiest and most reliable way to go about the selection process without manually picking everyone individually. 


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#27
HepTagoN

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I don't want to start fuzzy bunny with this idea, but would a hidden forum only accessible to very high-MMR players who know what to look for with hacks be acceptable if it cut down Reloaded's workload enough to get people promptly banned/suspended? Topics with video evidence submitted to support could be posted about specific users and the people in that thread could then vote to decide whether or not the accusations should be dropped without further investigation or if Reloaded should take a very close look at someone. The criteria for being included wouldn't necessarily have to be based on MMR, but that seems to be the easiest and most reliable way to go about the selection process without manually picking everyone individually.


That is the most stupid idea EVER. I shall elaborate when i'll be back home, u can already expect intense fuc.ing disapproval.

Edited by HepTagoN, 16 June 2015 - 06:52 AM.


#28
JeffMagnum

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That is the most stupid idea EVER. I shall elaborate when i'll be back home, u can already expect intense fuc.ing disapproval.

 

What would you change? It's not me being elitist; it's just that if anyone could help, there would be a ton of false positives that would have to be to sifted through since average players often confuse smurfs and even regular 2000+ accounts with botters. The idea is to reduce Reloaded's workload, not give them even more to deal with. 


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#29
-Tj-

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I don't want to start fuzzy bunny with this idea, but would a hidden forum only accessible to very high-MMR players who know what to look for with hacks be acceptable if it cut down Reloaded's workload enough to get people promptly banned/suspended? Topics with video evidence submitted to support could be posted about specific users and the people in that thread could then vote to decide whether or not the accusations should be dropped without further investigation or if Reloaded should take a very close look at someone. The criteria for being included wouldn't necessarily have to be based on MMR, but that seems to be the easiest and most reliable way to go about the selection process without manually picking everyone individually. 

I have my own set of concerns regarding this idea as well, similar to the issues that came up with the old forums debacle. However, I do know that there is a sizable set of players who know a cheater when they see one. I think this idea is on a good track, though maybe needs some more refining.



#30
JeffMagnum

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I agree that it needs refinement. I don't think it'd be too bad though considering the members would only have the ability to get Reloaded to look into a particular player and not actually suspend or ban anyone. Weeding out people who are falsely accused would be easy, and it'd also be no big deal if there was an occasional false negative. 


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#31
DerMax

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CS:GO players have Overwatch, and we're

 

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#32
-Tj-

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True, though I think some might worry that these "upper tier" players might possibly start suggesting banning normal players who just act unsavory. I actually think it would be good to have a small team that can investigate cheaters. I'm sure there are some cheaters out there who are very good at hiding their cheats, while others are so blatantly obvious that it's embarrassing. The former would be difficult to prove, the latter would be extremely easy.

 

If this becomes a thing, I think whatever methods of detection used by these players should remain discussed behind closed doors, so to speak. One of those cheat sites has a post about how to not look like you're using cheats. I wouldn't want them to start posting how to know when someone may be recording them based on what we're discussing openly here.



#33
Elite_is_salty

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I don't want to start fuzzy bunny with this idea, but would a hidden forum only accessible to very high-MMR players who know what to look for with hacks be acceptable if it cut down Reloaded's workload enough to get people promptly banned/suspended?

 

Elitist.

I'm 2000-2100 and I have more experience than 70% of the 2400+ players. For good reasons.


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#34
StubbornPuppet

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And the suggestion to only talk to high MMR players about hacking cheating somehow implies that no cheater could ever be a high MMR player and no high MMR player could possibly be a cheater.  Since neither is the case, "NO".


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To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#35
Meraple

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And the suggestion to only talk to high MMR players about hacking cheating somehow implies that no cheater could ever be a high MMR player and no high MMR player could possibly be a cheater.  Since neither is the case, "NO".


I'm pretty sure that's just your assumption, rather than what Jeff implied.

#36
SS396

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I don't want to start fuzzy bunny with this idea, but would a hidden forum only accessible to very high-MMR players who know what to look for with hacks be acceptable if it cut down Reloaded's workload enough to get people promptly banned/suspended? Topics with video evidence submitted to support could be posted about specific users and the people in that thread could then vote to decide whether or not the accusations should be dropped without further investigation or if Reloaded should take a very close look at someone. The criteria for being included wouldn't necessarily have to be based on MMR, but that seems to be the easiest and most reliable way to go about the selection process without manually picking everyone individually. 

 

Meteor had this same idea years ago.  It existed on the old forums for quite a while in complete secrecy.  Many of us were given powers such as moderator privileges, in game account reporting/flagging from the scoreboard, and easier access to direct lines of communication.

 

I will say this though, many people didn't agree with who was in that group and some of their actions they took on specific things and subjects.  

 

Basing it strictly off of MMR is just asking for problems.  It needs to be people that are trustworthy and dedicated, not just have a high MMR.

 

While I do think those peoples work did help to make things better and get accounts banned, it caused more issues than it solved.  I don't think it was worth it, except on ADH's end where they got work for absolutely free.  It was mostly the reason it remained in secrecy for so long, the Devs were afraid of how the normal users would react.

 

I think its best left for Reloaded to handle themselves, if they are too busy then they need to hire more people, or get interns.


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#37
Hyginos

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Having a group of people that review hacking footage isn't necessarily bad, but I think it would be best if:

 

-members of the group were not informed of who else is in the group.

-selection criteria is hidden.

-members of the group do not discuss the footage or individual cases. Rather, footage is flagged by each person individually then reviewed by Reloaded if a number of flags land on top of each other.

 

Ultimately I think there are better options, but they require resources from Reloaded, which at the end of the day is what I think the real problem is here.


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#38
-Tj-

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Having a group of people that review hacking footage isn't necessarily bad, but I think it would be best if:

 

-members of the group were not informed of who else is in the group.

-selection criteria is hidden.

-members of the group do not discuss the footage or individual cases. Rather, footage is flagged by each person individually then reviewed by Reloaded if a number of flags land on top of each other.

 

Ultimately I think there are better options, but they require resources from Reloaded, which at the end of the day is what I think the real problem is here.

I liked these ideas, though I'm still kinda on the fence about the inability to discuss the cases. Maybe it's not really needed if enough flags are raised, and players can discuss in-game or in PMs if necessary anyway. Plus, players not knowing who else is reviewing cases would make it more difficult for the potential of cheaters getting into the group and skewing info. With the flag thing, isn't that kinda already being done with the support ticket reports? (hopefully)



#39
SS396

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One of the reasons I suggested basing it off of MMR is so no one can be accused of favoritism--admittedly it's not the ideal solution, but as an interim thing until the devs get used to the community and get more employees on board I think it could work out alright. From looking at the leaderboard, everyone who is 2500+ or so has a good enough understanding of the game's mechanics to make informed calls. Requiring at least 7-8/10 votes to be in favor of either dismissing an accusation or confirming that the player in question is suspicious would make sure no one can unfairly influence the devs to punish someone who's innocent.


Well, I hate to say it but, there is already a pretty large allegiance and favoritism within that group, and I'll leave it at that.

I would rather the fate of other players lives rest in someone being actually paid by Reloaded, although Hyginos's proposal does insert some interesting ideas that would help. I just have little faith that those people chosen could remain clandestine and unbiased.

I do agree though something needs to be done.

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#40
JeffMagnum

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I'm not going to deny that it can be cliquey and elitist at times (though tbh I'm hardly involved with any of it personally outside of occasional circlejerking on the forums), but I doubt that would cloud anyone's judgement if they were making decisions regarding whether or not someone is hacking. There wouldn't really be an incentive to falsely accuse someone out of jealousy or frustration or whatever considering that the vast majority of players are probably worse than anyone who would be participating.

 

I think having Reloaded employees review footage would be the best option too, but I'd rather something imperfect be done now than continue with the current status quo regarding botters for a few more months. 


Edited by JeffMagnum, 16 June 2015 - 07:04 PM.

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