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#1
nepacaka

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Due the "3rd October news" topic, and this text.
 

We’re working on making it so you can swap out your weapons, items, and internals.  Tell us what you think – do you want *all* the weapons, or do you think it should only be a selection of weapons?

 

i have a question. Devs, can you tell us more about solution which you think/ start working with unlocking items/internals, and weapons Before you implement this in console patch? (and i hope in PC pacth in future. yez, i still bielieve it happens)

because it is obviously, that hawken players and hawken devs have a totally different vision of hawken game concept. i'm ok with current "locked" concept on consoles (because think it is solved a lot of problem, with the same tactics, internal/items build, suicidal internals like composite, emp and shield spam in siege, weak weapons loadout on mechs, which nobody used (excepts some fun) and mech balancing between each other. yes, it is not solved all problems, and probably added some other problem, but it is actually can be solved in future.)


just for clearing.
1) if you want unlock all weapon for all mech, you should understand, that this way make 90% of mech just useless.
for example, which sense have a bruiser if you can put his weapons on SS body and got much more good ability like +20 dmg, for weapons. or even more, why you need use cheap use bruiser weapon if you can put kla+flak on SS body, and got insane alpha strike which can "oneshot" any a-class?

2) if you want unlock some weapons like choice between 2 weapons (like i suggest in topic)

Spoiler

or 3 weapons (like current pc version)
you should about weapons put on mech, because some of weapon loadouts now is really good (i.e. imba) or worse/useless.
like T32 predator, for example. yeah, it is fun mech, but this weapon have absolutely no sense, because breacher just better in any situation (and probably need nerf), it is loading fast, have higher alphastrike, can shoot at long range with 100% accuracy (i.e. if you not miss, weapon never miss). you got a little less dps, but all other parameters of weapon just better.
even Assault actually have 2 weapons, it is AR and Vulcan. Ar is actually much more universal than SMC.
Some mechs have 3 weapons viable (but it is actually only some mechs). Some mech, like rocketeer with EOK/Heat have a very small profit if compared with nub-seeker. just because he slow, dps is close to zero, and many other disadvantages...but you can shoot red lamps instead.

So, if you want unlock several weapons for mech, can you tell for us a weapn-list which you want to unlock (or added) to every mech before u do this?

Let's be true, i totally don't like mostly all of new mech which you doing. (i think nief is mistake, 36m and Charge is stupid like g2-asslt, and Civ is probably +/- OK)

Also, if you want more "Variativity" for mechs, Which different weapons got stupid mech like Nief, 36m, Civ, Charge?
The problem is, you unfollow (ignored) general hawken design rules, so, how you want added variatity for these mechs? Obviously it is impossible just making changable primary weapon, because these mechs have XT secondary (like charge) which more weak/low dps than original weapons. Also, how it working in general, because original hawken mech use system Primary+Secondary, and your new mechs use system Primary+Primary.

Or if you unlock all weapons, which sense have, for example Charge mech, if i just can put 2 real mini-flaks (not XT) on Berserk chassis and shred everything with 250 dps + 20% dmg while ability. Or even better, i can use Nief chassis with 2 Mflak, and got 500 dps while ability. did you really think about all weapons/combo vaiants? Because some of variants can be literally "Insane". And i even don't talking about some probably more annoying combos like 2 breacher to be "Imba + imba = i'm real gangsta", or two KLA, etc.


I'm personally don't see how you can implement "free weapon" system with current game design. because XT weapon will be useless with this system. So, this is why i want to hear/ see/ read your weapon-list for mech. Because i actually don't want to see in game C-class mech with breacher+TOW with ablity +50% dmg in 2 second "just because you can put this on mech"


p.s. I very like that CzeroFive dev got more activity and came with some ideas like trying to change orb-lording and other stuff (which should be reworked long time ago), composite and some other thing, but the real problem i feel, that the way how players "see problem", and how devs method for "solved" it, it is sometimes really annoying, because it is totally different point of vision. like:

players want -> delete composite to not reward "suicidal" playstile.
devs solution -> ok, we nerf it.
the total stuff -> "suicidal" problem still not solved. nerfed, but not solved.

this is what i'm talking about. we look at hawken from different angles. and this is sad :C

sorry for my english if it understandable. anyway i know that your not answer :D


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Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#2
Shoutaxeror

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Thanks for your dedication Nepa, but yeah, I stoped reading walls of text since nothing new happened in game. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. But yeah, it's probably interesting, so I'll like your post. Yeah, why am I even writing this?


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#3
nepacaka

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Thanks for your dedication Nepa, but yeah, I stoped reading walls of text since nothing new happened in game. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. But yeah, it's probably interesting, so I'll like your post. Yeah, why am I even writing this?

have no idea why u writing this. it is sad that nothing happen, but i still bieliev that something good may happen if reloaded do it right. probably i'm hopeless.


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Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#4
nepacaka

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i still feel that it have potencial. if devs for example, change their point about balance and loadouts. like for example, leave scout with heat and mini-flak as alternative. but wait, people love flak scout, so, devs just can create for them new A-class, with tow and flak. with different, rebalanced stat specially for this weapon loadout, instead creating another 36m, or stupid charge (which is just pew-pew plagiarism from d.va with matrix ability). 
Like creating SA+TOW C-class and give for G2-Brawler T32 as alternative weapon. Making new C-class with SA less armored, and more speed, to be more like long-range support. More comfortable for this weapon loadout than current Brawler. Like give a "replacement" for mech which are not very sucessfully right now.

rework some stupid internals and delete some mechanics, and this game can be much more good and not cause irritation (or angry/annoying have no idea which word is more correct). 

Not just create "change for change's sake", because it is stupid and not move hawken from current point in any direction.


  • Guns_N_Rozer likes this

Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#5
MomOw

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i still feel that it have potencial. if devs for example, change their point about balance and loadouts. like for example, leave scout with heat and mini-flak as alternative. but wait, people love flak scout, so, devs just can create for them new A-class, with tow and flak. with different, rebalanced stat specially for this weapon loadout, instead creating another 36m, or stupid charge (which is just pew-pew plagiarism from d.va with matrix ability). 
Like creating SA+TOW C-class and give for G2-Brawler T32 as alternative weapon. Making new C-class with SA less armored, and more speed, to be more like long-range support. More comfortable for this weapon loadout than current Brawler. Like give a "replacement" for mech which are not very sucessfully right now.

rework some stupid internals and delete some mechanics, and this game can be much more good and not cause irritation (or angry/annoying have no idea which word is more correct). 

Not just create "change for change's sake", because it is stupid and not move hawken from current point in any direction.

 

With the actual content some slight rebalance could make the game so much better :

 

- EOC with increased rof while uncharged

- dumbfire mode efficient for hellfire

- rocketeer with SA (instead of EOC) and brawler with another option

- Grenadier with a MAMA like (but more efficient) gun rather than Point-D

- Fred with AR + TOW / GL / Hellfire (instead of AR / SMC / Point-D + TOW)

- remove scanner or drastically reduce the duration

- remove extractor or change it to something else

- change the repair kit to increase the healing rate while you repair

- change the resplenisher to a 2 slot internal

- buff failsafe

- slight buff to fuel converter

- slight increase to turn rate

- change tech ability

- revamp of incinerator (an efficiency something between BBY and PPA)

- change T32 choice for predator to something else

 

Then harder but even cooler : new maps, new game modes, new skins


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#6
talon70

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Capt James Nepa Kirk: ( lays on the blue alien chick with 3 boobs trying to revive her, )

 

Dr. Talon Bones McCoy: "Shes dead Jim, and she slapped you in the face and spit on you before she died. so..."

 

 

 

Years from now when the game is long long gone, Nepa will still be here posting sketches of the potential "next mech" in hopes of revival. I will stop by and "like" them. ;)


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#7
DieselCat

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It's been almost 2 years since the takeover...still nothing new here. They knew from the beginning that they were going to focus on the consoles and if they were successful would carry that success over to the PC....But if it didn't,  the PC was just a throw away (my opinion of course)

How are the console version doing today ?

Maybe their investors felt the investment vs. return was greater going that route (consoles) than investing back into the PC version. But I feel that if they concentrated solely on the PC from the beginning (and had done it correctly) this game would have had the chance to really become a success....Sadly that never happened.

Now, the few that are left here,  are hoping this patch (derived from the consoles) may be the answer to solving getting the PC back on track.....Maybe....but (imo) unlikely. For me, changing the PC to mirror the consoles would take a game that's superior and water it down.

Still love the game here, play it and hoping for a miracle. 


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Just Relax....and take life one game at a time....

Don't run to your death....walk

 

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*+

 


#8
ATX22

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I wonder if everyone will still be having these same conversations this time in 2017, all while little to nothing is done to the PC version of Hawken.. (EDIT: Console ports don't count.  PC-Hawken is dead to me if that's the case)


Edited by ATX22, 15 October 2016 - 10:43 AM.


#9
nepacaka

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should say i disagree with many things.

With the actual content some slight rebalance could make the game so much better :

 

- EOC with increased rof while uncharged
doesn't help because air-doge. people who sux with EOK against air-dodge still sux, people who can play with EOK against bers, still can kill it or put 6 lamps while flying. it is maybe not bad buff, but it doesn,t change nothing in general.

- dumbfire mode efficient for hellfire
doesn't need cuz seeker. need rebalance HF and seeker in complex measures, with bruiser stats too.

- rocketeer with SA (instead of EOC) and brawler with another option
doesn't need cuz seeker dps is better. Actually, Brawler can got T-32 and be a totally 100% "shotgunner"

- Grenadier with a MAMA like (but more efficient) gun rather than Point-D
grenadier (on console i mean) should got GL back, cuz 2 rev-gl is unplayable thing. i feel it is most worse loadout for this mech. i have no idea how killing air-doge berserk without air-mid detonations. It is just required super-luck if you trying to play against more harder opponent than Ai Bot which stand and shoot in you. Also, grenadier with Heat is still very cool mech. will be sad lose heat-gren.

- Fred with AR + TOW / GL / Hellfire (instead of AR / SMC / Point-D + TOW)
Why u need HF if u have TOW? This mech (TV or Assault is a very universal right now, and it is also required change whole system to allow mech change their secondaries)

- remove scanner or drastically reduce the duration
remove. any Nerf not halp, and not cost it, because... (see screenshot 1 below)

- remove extractor or change it to something else
agree

- change the repair kit to increase the healing rate while you repair
agree

- change the resplenisher to a 2 slot internal
replenisher can have much more sense if all mechs abilities will have the global cooldawn. and you not just got "free ability" which cooldawn 50 sec when you Die. this is another thing which can "punish" stupid suicidal gameplay, and "reward" good playstyle and teamplay. especially in siege and MA gamemodes, where you death cost 0 to win and you can die how much as you want and spam strong abilities every 15 sec (like bers or raider. + adding composite here to got max effeciency).

- buff failsafe
no good idea. it is normal now. You forgot about free fuel-combo with heat+fuel converter and shooting under your feet. Heat-Grenadier actually can cost ~50-60 hp to converted it into 1/3 fuel tank by uncharged shoot, if he use "small fuel conv + big failsafe". it give you about 40% fuel if you use big fuel conv. I really don't like idea buff it, cuz it cause problems which we have Before and ADH spent time to solve this mistake.

- slight buff to fuel converter
no need. 2-3 AR shots in raider with 2 slot fuel c. add him 1/3 fuel tank. Actually, Fuel converter formula is working very strange.

- slight increase to turn rate
better delete crosshair shacking while walking. play on A-class is much more comfortable than B or C, C-class is just have unfair amount of this. at this time, when you jumping or fly your crosshair shaking is 0, so, game literally "reward" jumping playstyle on some mech, even if i want to do this (or don't know have/ have less skill, etc.)
Player only have disadvantages from this point of veiw, if he not use air-compressor. It is actually - Bad.

- change tech ability
Just give him AOE regen on 10 sec which heal 150 HP (15 per sec) in 50-60 meters radius and cooldawn 45-50 sec. Give him PN-223 + TOW. And making it like battle-tech which really need skill to play and kill someone. no stupid aimbot and fullheal brawler while ability in 2 sec. it should be support. it is also solved tech+inci mechanics.

- revamp of incinerator (an efficiency something between BBY and PPA)
just nerf this to 120-125 DPS summary. or make SAARE minimal reloading 1.1-1.2 sec, to not allow him spam balls in less than second.

- change T32 choice for predator to something else

yesh
 

Then harder but even cooler : new maps, new game modes, new skins

screenshoot 1
zwhixfJ.jpg

 

Capt James Nepa Kirk: ( lays on the blue alien chick with 3 boobs trying to revive her, )

 

Dr. Talon Bones McCoy: "Shes dead Jim, and she slapped you in the face and spit on you before she died. so..."

 

 

 

Years from now when the game is long long gone, Nepa will still be here posting sketches of the potential "next mech" in hopes of revival. I will stop by and "like" them. ;)

i actually try to play in several new games. they all bad. they don't have mech, or thousand liters of blood, or any other other cool stuff which i like. so, they sux if compared with hawken, and you need grind or pay tonnes $ to play with the same bugs or gameplay problems like hawken have, so... xD


Edited by nepacaka, 15 October 2016 - 12:08 PM.

  • MomOw and talon70 like this

Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#10
nepacaka

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How are the console version doing today ?

 

not super good as i hear. but not super bad.

i still feel that the game just unplayable for average people. it is main problems, hawken can't keep player in game, and gameplay sometimes literally make you "rage" because you see very stupid things in fight. 
not so long time ago i play siege agains +/- average infil with not very high skill. both of team will be full of low tier pilot (walk+shoot+dodge, nothing more). the infil use very simple tactics, he just push yourself into base and start flying, making some air-doge and kill everyone with AR. Since second half of match my team mostly just start "ignore" him. and shoting in something else, just because they can't do nothing with him. 
And all of what i'm doing in match, it is running for him with rev grenadier, to not allow killing my teammates. this match will not be super hard to win, but i was really "angry". just because it was super-stupid. it... it is not game which i want to play if i hear hawken. 

Now game just don't have coherent conception. this is like mosaic from 3-4 different complect, where all details not connect with each other.

- we have classical mech like brawler, scout, grenadier, sasalt, which is playing easy in 2 buttons, all what you need press lmb till enemy die. which insanely nerfed.

- air-dodge mechanics which not campared with some of old weapons, which was constructed for ground fight.

- changes in weapon spread, and movement system, as a result, if you stay on ground, you are suffer from weapon delay mechanics, if you use boost (as planned, not jumps, bunny-hops, etc.) you can't shoot, but when you just jump you release weapons in air faster, and you vector speed is stacking. 
why we need ground movement which we have before? like r-dodge and other sh!t? it is still good for combined, but... you just can press space and all be OK.

devs trying to make a game for everyone, and this was a mistake. as a result, people who came in game because it have cool and...hmmm, strange movement mechanics, now actually lose it. you no need to do it to be good, you just an hold space and shooting, no spread, no shaking, and you can shoot while you moving fast. ez.

- this game start in 2012 like something "tactical mech shooter", yes, even in 2012 it required good piloting, not bad reaction, and some knowledge about mech restrictions (stun after falling, slow down if you change direction incorrect, etc.) and will be not bad. it is like combo between slow gameplay and at the same time very dynamic firefight. And it will be not bad if you don't love gameplay fully based on your "reaction speed"

than devs changed it into concept like super slow C and fast A, with tonnes of regen, teambased, insane air speed (you remember rocketeer with full point in air? it was damn fast! :D). why?

than steam patch which was full about oneshots and unexpected death, than current version. I'm actually not a bad player in shooters. I'm not a cyber-sport, and have not bad reaction, but this game is literally Hard for me, and i think, i play much more better than many average players in hawken. Current hawken make me feel "rage" alot of time. And problem mostly not in my reaction, i rage because i can't play on mech on which i want to play sometimes.
For example, i love heat-gren, or rev-gren. some heat-infil, eok or heat rocketeer. 
But when i start play with another high-tier players, with insane accuracy and other stuff, it is impossible use these mechs, if they use simple mech like assault, berserk, raider, scout, vanguard. i just can't do nothing with they. All what i can to do, it is swap on Brawler and kill them (or the similar mirror mechs i.e. bers/salt/van), because there is another way to counter them, and their compressors and tonnes of EMP in face. Probably, Brawler is the one of the reason why i still play, because i can solve 99% of my problems with it, like lack of skill, lack of accuracy, lack of reaction.

And i actually easily can imagine, how "angry" sometimes people who play maybe worse than me, and trying to play on bruiser, for example. i can understand why, because i feel their pain, and than they start calling other players "cheater" and offensie they, but the real problem is a some mech is useless or don't have enough good abilities to be playable.

Just trying to say, than the people who love mechs, awaits something more "bulky" from mechs (i'm not talking about TTK, it is all about mech "feeling", doesn't matter you die from 2 rockets in face or from 10), but in reality they got shooter which totally based on human reaction speed and ping. And they just dissapointed with it. And i actually too. you may disagree with me, but i play in low-tier lobby sometimes, and it is just visual demonstration of how big the difference between, let say 1850 and 2000 players. First one just can not do anything, they almost can't deal adequate damage to second.

And you can't solve this with mechs balance, or matchmaking. Just because as it is the game itself, and a people. The problem is - Hawken is game about mechs! And the first it attract mechs fans. not a high-skilled FPS fans, because highskilled players play in quake, unreal, CS, and other game. 

If devs not planning put some millions in PR and put hawken on cyber-sport... i don't see why we need this game? This game not for mech fans, cuz it hard for people. This game not for the competitve players, because there is 0(zero) sense to play in hawken. For who this game? For us? For community which have less than 100 players?

All what i want see now from the developers (RLD), how they decided on the new strategy of development and followed it. Because Hawken in current state is a game for nobody (it include all alements. balance, core mechanic, and other stuff)
- this game too hard for ordinary people, and create huge gap in movement abilities between pilots (cuz there no restrictions actually)
- this game too stupid and unbalance for being competetive (TDM even don't have motivation to play, u literally no need to do nothing)

at a current moment, i really don't know why it is exist. and new mech or maps is not help here, because whole game conception is broken. Even 50 new dual-welding mechs not safe it. I told about this even from steam-patch, but there is probably useless to do :P


just think about this wall of text like my feedback "why current hawken is ugly, why people leave after 2 days of playing, and why in this game plays only nubs and elitish pilots (whichs actually not play right now anymore)


Edited by nepacaka, 15 October 2016 - 01:21 PM.

  • DeeRax likes this

Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#11
nepacaka

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just a bit humor :3

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Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#12
EM1O

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Always be carefully what you wish for...you might receive dual primary mchs that are either OP or bricks
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#:  chown -R us ./base

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#13
nepacaka

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Always be carefully what you wish for...you might receive dual primary mchs that are either OP or bricks

like i say, it is not help.

especially, if player start understand how things really worked, they understand that the G2-assault (for example) is stupid. it is ugly mech mech with one tactics. wait till it come, attack, hold lmd till one of us not die. if enemy have IQ higher than 80 and start use covers... u can't do nothing except trying to catch kill, and enemy start "kiting" you now and surprising with TOW in u face at every corner.

this is actually one funny things, when ADH probably trying to find solution in G2, like an instrument which can broken defensive gameplay, and we got mech which can't do nothing if enemy start trolling it with TOW and if player see g2 with high DPS, he start use... defensive gameplay and radar :D

it is even more fun, then RLD actually don't understand this. They also added idiotic mech with one tactics to play like "all or nothing" (i.e. "exchange HP gameplay", instead "survival gameplay" or "ming game" based on who will outfit ) and making mech which not born for hawken, and don't have instrument to be actually interesting for player who start undertand game mechanics and movement (cuz don't have any tow or explosive, maybe Civ have some potencial, due it all about corner play and it is actually, different with g2-salt, 36m, and charge, even if it have 2 primaries), it is mean, this mechs stupid not because they just pew-pew, but because they not born for hawken, they not born for cornerplay, and they not born for radar. 
Even if devs just delete radar from games, ordinary assault still kickass g2 just by using some covers and intuition. Maybe only on bunker... which is also map created for the same stupids fights on small amount of mechs who really good on this map (and actually g2-assault not one of them xD)

this is what i'm talking about before. Now half of game - classic hawken, with radar, covers, alphastrikes, and the second part - new mechs born for pew-pew and bunker, and totally not related with original hawken game mechanic. it is ugly constructor now where all game rules now broken, and game don't have their own integrity conception. it is fail.

just imagine, for example, as if CS developers added an RPG-7 in game which kill everyone in 20m radius, to attract more players. at least, it is easy, just buy RPG-7, and shoot somwhere to got some frags. i think, CS fans not will be happy if heard that devs want added stupid RPG-7 in game "all about bullets". The same with hawken. Devs actually added some "fuzzy bunny" and they not understand why things like g2-salt, new grenadier, or incinerator actually working ugly and no need in this game, only added problem in game, and ruine core gameplay which we have long time ago.

fixed mistakes


Edited by nepacaka, 15 October 2016 - 02:09 PM.

  • EM1O likes this

Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#14
Pumapaw

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Both console version have less then 1000 players. So enjoy it while they fork out for servers.



#15
X0X13X0X

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I like console Hawken, and I hope it succeeds. I try to play at least a little every day to help keep the numbers up  (and because I need the practice!). I dropped a little money on cosmetics when I started, but I'm holding off on spending any more until I see how weapon/internal customization shakes out. I agree with the OP that it's a pretty important next step, and I'd really like to know what the devs have in mind.



#16
MechFighter5e3bf9

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i know they responded when i asked simply for a garage option on round pre start it was alot easier to read



#17
MomOw

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should say i disagree with many things.

 

We agree to disagree :thumbsup:


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gXO9Nfd.pngmXasTsY.pngft4VqcE.png

 

KDR Member | Streamer | Priority Target II

Spoiler

#18
Nov8tr

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New Hawken Mech................

 

stickman2.png?itok=ThRLAWhZ


"Nov8tr" is pronounced "INNOVATOR"

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Yes I'm really 64 yrs old. July 6, 1953


#19
nepacaka

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New Hawken Mech................

 

stickman2.png?itok=ThRLAWhZ

 

i actually click "play now" xD


Edited by nepacaka, 16 October 2016 - 12:34 PM.

  • Neraste, EM1O and KarlSchlag like this

Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#20
DallasCreeper

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i actually click "play now" xD

I did as well...


  • KarlSchlag likes this

 

Spoiler

2XhpJes.png

Ridding the world of evil, one Berzerker at a time.


#21
CZeroFive

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Due the "3rd October news" topic, and this text.
 

i have a question. Devs, can you tell us more about solution which you think/ start working with unlocking items/internals, and weapons Before you implement this in console patch? (and i hope in PC pacth in future. yez, i still bielieve it happens)

because it is obviously, that hawken players and hawken devs have a totally different vision of hawken game concept. i'm ok with current "locked" concept on consoles (because think it is solved a lot of problem, with the same tactics, internal/items build, suicidal internals like composite, emp and shield spam in siege, weak weapons loadout on mechs, which nobody used (excepts some fun) and mech balancing between each other. yes, it is not solved all problems, and probably added some other problem, but it is actually can be solved in future.)


just for clearing.
1) if you want unlock all weapon for all mech, you should understand, that this way make 90% of mech just useless.
for example, which sense have a bruiser if you can put his weapons on SS body and got much more good ability like +20 dmg, for weapons. or even more, why you need use cheap use bruiser weapon if you can put kla+flak on SS body, and got insane alpha strike which can "oneshot" any a-class?

2) if you want unlock some weapons like choice between 2 weapons (like i suggest in topic)

Spoiler

or 3 weapons (like current pc version)
you should about weapons put on mech, because some of weapon loadouts now is really good (i.e. imba) or worse/useless.
like T32 predator, for example. yeah, it is fun mech, but this weapon have absolutely no sense, because breacher just better in any situation (and probably need nerf), it is loading fast, have higher alphastrike, can shoot at long range with 100% accuracy (i.e. if you not miss, weapon never miss). you got a little less dps, but all other parameters of weapon just better.
even Assault actually have 2 weapons, it is AR and Vulcan. Ar is actually much more universal than SMC.
Some mechs have 3 weapons viable (but it is actually only some mechs). Some mech, like rocketeer with EOK/Heat have a very small profit if compared with nub-seeker. just because he slow, dps is close to zero, and many other disadvantages...but you can shoot red lamps instead.

So, if you want unlock several weapons for mech, can you tell for us a weapn-list which you want to unlock (or added) to every mech before u do this?

Let's be true, i totally don't like mostly all of new mech which you doing. (i think nief is mistake, 36m and Charge is stupid like g2-asslt, and Civ is probably +/- OK)

Also, if you want more "Variativity" for mechs, Which different weapons got stupid mech like Nief, 36m, Civ, Charge?
The problem is, you unfollow (ignored) general hawken design rules, so, how you want added variatity for these mechs? Obviously it is impossible just making changable primary weapon, because these mechs have XT secondary (like charge) which more weak/low dps than original weapons. Also, how it working in general, because original hawken mech use system Primary+Secondary, and your new mechs use system Primary+Primary.

Or if you unlock all weapons, which sense have, for example Charge mech, if i just can put 2 real mini-flaks (not XT) on Berserk chassis and shred everything with 250 dps + 20% dmg while ability. Or even better, i can use Nief chassis with 2 Mflak, and got 500 dps while ability. did you really think about all weapons/combo vaiants? Because some of variants can be literally "Insane". And i even don't talking about some probably more annoying combos like 2 breacher to be "Imba + imba = i'm real gangsta", or two KLA, etc.


I'm personally don't see how you can implement "free weapon" system with current game design. because XT weapon will be useless with this system. So, this is why i want to hear/ see/ read your weapon-list for mech. Because i actually don't want to see in game C-class mech with breacher+TOW with ablity +50% dmg in 2 second "just because you can put this on mech"


p.s. I very like that CzeroFive dev got more activity and came with some ideas like trying to change orb-lording and other stuff (which should be reworked long time ago), composite and some other thing, but the real problem i feel, that the way how players "see problem", and how devs method for "solved" it, it is sometimes really annoying, because it is totally different point of vision. like:

players want -> delete composite to not reward "suicidal" playstile.
devs solution -> ok, we nerf it.
the total stuff -> "suicidal" problem still not solved. nerfed, but not solved.

this is what i'm talking about. we look at hawken from different angles. and this is sad :C

sorry for my english if it understandable. anyway i know that your not answer :D

 

Hey, so here's the deal with that remark from the dev Q&A - and thank you for the constructive feedback, by the way.

 

Weapons - We realize that giving every mech all the weapons is, at most, a silly idea. It ruins the special loadouts that most of the mechs have, and not every mech's weapon is really suited to every mech. So that's scrapped, at this point.

 

Primaries - We're likely going to lean towards an alternate/prestige loadout system again. In terms of balance, we would keep the PC prestige and alternate weapon choices. This would allow the PC build to 'just work' right out of the box when the codebases are unified. We're not committed on a way to obtain the weapons yet, hopefully we can share more when we get closer to finishing the UI changes needed to do that system.

 

Secondaries - The plan was to make the 'second' weapon on a mech locked in place, and almost sort of a 'class defining' secondary weapon as opposed to interchangeable secondaries.

 

Items - We're likely going to have to limit items to 2 items slotted per loadout for technical reasons. Other than that, the current choices will very well stay the same.

 

As for the composite internal, I am not convinced it's a major issue as you guys 'soft ban' those kind of internals from your tournaments and they're perfectly fine for casual play. Perhaps it would be a neat idea to look into restricting specific items, internals, weapons, and mechs as a server option in the future for PC players that rent servers so if you don't like a gameplay element, it's not forced on you.


Edited by CZeroFive, 16 October 2016 - 03:18 PM.

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#22
Nept

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As for the composite internal, I am not convinced it's a major issue as you guys 'soft ban' those kind of internals from your tournaments and they're perfectly fine for casual play. Perhaps it would be a neat idea to look into restricting specific items, internals, weapons, and mechs as a server option in the future for PC players that rent servers so if you don't like a gameplay element, it's not forced on you.

 

Honestly, I banned composite armour out of principle.


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#23
EM1O

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Dept. Of Bad Idea removals:
Assault
Assault G2
Technician
Incinerator
Honorable mention: Rocketeer

Fatten the armor and TTK back up to Dec 2012 levels also, and you now have a rockin' "new" Hawken patch.
  • Brother3J likes this

#:  chown -R us ./base

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"...oh great Itzamna, you shall know Us by the trail of Dead."


#24
dorobo

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Hawken made nepacaka go mad!

 

edit: take that babaji pill


Edited by dorobo, 16 October 2016 - 10:47 PM.

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#25
nepacaka

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CZeroFive, i've trying do my best in english to explain some moments "why?" people have different opinion with devs. thx for u answer and comminicate anyway.

Hey, so here's the deal with that remark from the dev Q&A - and thank you for the constructive feedback, by the way.
thx

 

Weapons - We realize that giving every mech all the weapons is, at most, a silly idea. It ruins the special loadouts that most of the mechs have, and not every mech's weapon is really suited to every mech. So that's scrapped, at this point.
nice to hear

 

Primaries - We're likely going to lean towards an alternate/prestige loadout system again. In terms of balance, we would keep the PC prestige and alternate weapon choices. This would allow the PC build to 'just work' right out of the box when the codebases are unified. We're not committed on a way to obtain the weapons yet, hopefully we can share more when we get closer to finishing the UI changes needed to do that system.
3 weapons it is good, but some mech have a problem and literally just unplayable if you want to play seriously:

1)Bruiser with SMC and AR - silly mech. SMC sux by DPS, if compare itwith vulcan, and probably not cost to use. And you can't use it like SMC-Assault due the HF is Not TOW.
Bruiser with AR is less sux probably, but you should have "insane" accuracy to use it.
General Bruiser problem - He sux! He sux because HF is weak weapon. The real problem that you should find solution between Bruiser and Rocketeer.

2) Rocketeer with Seeker - Thing which killing Bruiser and pulls him to the bottom. Many ppl think, that rocketeer have smaller dps, it is actually not true, it have probably higher DPS than SA Brawler if he laying his seeker in target (which is not hard). The real fun in this mech, that you not really need HF to play. If enemy not focus you, you can just kill him with seeker, and he die very fast.
Previously devs always trying to Nerf (highly nerf) HellGire missiles. The reason of Nerf - several rocketers killing everything on Lost Eco and Bunker, and many people (+/- average players) was annoying with this. but nerf HF is actually mistake, the real aimbot weapon which killing people - it is seeker. due to aim+high damage per bullet and firerate.

next. EOK-Rocketeer and Heat-Rocketeer. Sux with the same reason. Slow weapons, low dps, no TOW to adequate use it like scout or even grenadier. hidden parameter - it is hard to play due you need press to many buttons. Most of problems is a air mechs like Bers, Assault and other imba-mech with overbuffed DPS, which just shred this in pieces.
EOK and Heat-rocketeer is actually interest to play, and feel like really how rocketeer should be, but it is totally nerfed and unplayable right now.

In General = bruiser sux, because HF. rocketeer is normal, because seeker is good, but HF sux. Rocketer with EOK/Heat sux.
Solution -> Buf HF weapon, Nerf seeker. Bruiser stronger, cuz HF buff. Rocketeer with EOK and Heat stronger. Rocketeer with seeker the same, because nerf seeker, but buff HF.

3) Vulcan-Brawler. It is not weak (but he actually have problems with overheat and slow speed), but it is useless mech. Why? Actually Vulcan-Grenadier and Vulcan-Vanguard just better with this, as a result Vulcan-Brawler literally don't have any sense in game. This weapon not for him. I suggest replace Vulcan-D weapon on T-32 bolt. It have sense as a "Alternative" shotgun. T32 and Flak is almost equal by DMG, they have only difference in playstyle. So you can give players a choice which shotgun he can use, which he like. I think it will be positive changes for brawler.

4) PN223-Techinician. Another mech not worth to play it. The reason why PN223 is useless, because it is a little worse than Hawkins-RPR. so, why u need use anther sustain weapon if RPR just better? The problem is PN223 is a not burst weapon (dispite it look like something mixed between burst and sustain... it is sustain weapon.)
You can easily change PN223 and create a more difference between RPR and PN223, if you increase PN223 damage, and decrease rate of fire, and leave the same DPS like RPR in general. i.e. make a 223 real "burst weapon". So, if technician player want burst, he use 223, if want sustain, he use RPR. it is very easy solution. PN223 is cool weapon, but right now it don't have any sense.

5) PPA-Incinerator. It is a problem. This mech is called "support" but in reality, he have so much parameters with higher stats. He have high speed (as vanguard) which allow him use "bunny-hop" and move faster, he have very good HP value, not like real support, more like tank. he have Buffs for team, and debuff for enemies, and at the same time incinerator have second place by DPS after mini-flak vanguard.
But the real problem, that this mech can shooting without overheat (which can increase his damage per minute to insane values, much more higher than all other mech have, because all other mech should stop shooting, and wait 3 sec. or overheat and wait 4-5.5 sec without damage. The incinerator - not.)
Added to this situation technician = ability to shoot without overheat, insane DPS, infinity Healing (due the tech not overheat under incinerator cooling ability). It is literally - imba. Just because it have very many Pros, and small Cons. 

The next inci thing - 0.75 sec cooldawn of SAARE "Big faerbals". Even a-class with 1 sec dodge can't evade inci faerballs if stay on ground. He can use dodge and evade one bullet, but the next bullet will be 100% hit, because incinerator just shoot faster than you dodge, and have Insane blast-radius which is higher than GL. Only one way how you can beat him, it is use Air-compressor. If you not use Air-compressor - you sux. It is not how it should be.

ADH devs actually stop working on hawken before they can nerf this, and the problem with inci+tech was annoying long time ago.
So, the really thing which you can do with Incinerator it is just highly Nerf it to making a "support" role mech which incinerator always should be. Not a damager, Not a tank, Not a pusher. He should be a support and nothing more.

the are several way which you can use hard changes in code, just tweaking it with numbers:
- Decrease SAARE secondary mode "explosive radius"(blast radius) the same like the small fireballs. (i.e the same blast radius, but difference damage)
or
- Decrease SAARE rate of fire to 1.1-1.2 sec to not allow incinerator spam Big fireballs. (But it is bad way, because it makes PPA incinerator almost unplayable or very hard to play)
or
- Decrease SAARE big fireballs damage to 60, but leave current blast-radius (i.e. big and small fireballs damage are equal, difference only in blast radius. i actually preffer this variant)
- Higly Decreace HP to 685. And decrease boost speed to 27m/s. (based on PC stats. it is required tweking by Console stats, but you got idea big Nerf to HP and Speed, to not allow incinerator be a greatest tank in inci+tech combo)
- Replace PAPA with SMC as a starting wepaon (than you unlock BBY as alternative, than MMA as elite). ez. no prob.

incinerator problems not in "how nubs play on incinerator", the problem "how much nubs suffer because high-skill incinerator". You should understand this moment at first, to understand why it should got high nerf, and have a his place as a support in teamplay. And you also should understand about stacking Inci, when several players use it and as a result got much more summary DPS than enemy team can even imagine.

 

 

Secondaries - The plan was to make the 'second' weapon on a mech locked in place, and almost sort of a 'class defining' secondary weapon as opposed to interchangeable secondaries.

not very understand this part, but OK. i suppose you just leave it "as is", i.e. Brawler still continue use TOW, Raider still use KLA etc.

Items - We're likely going to have to limit items to 2 items slotted per loadout for technical reasons. Other than that, the current choices will very well stay the same.

2 items per mech it is good, (it is good because i have only 2 fingers which press Q and E for items, and never understand why we really need 3 items in inventory xD. But OK.)

As for the composite internal, I am not convinced it's a major issue as you guys 'soft ban' those kind of internals from your tournaments and they're perfectly fine for casual play. Perhaps it would be a neat idea to look into restricting specific items, internals, weapons, and mechs as a server option in the future for PC players that rent servers so if you don't like a gameplay element, it's not forced on you.
First of all, not all player want to use play on rental server. Maybe i don't have 11 friends to play with? or maybe just want to play in "solo-random" (how i always play in hawken, and i think, not only i use this method to play. just press "play" and kill someone). It is not an answer and not a solution.

It is not a major issue, but it is thing which make people "rage" and this internal can be very annoying. it is bad because allow players use "suicidal behaviour" and creating a stupid gameplay in hawken. And you mistake, than you think it is "casual" play.
I'm not use this principially, because this is "no respect for youself", But just for example, i can easily create a raider with Composite+Deflectors+Failsafe, and use next tactic.
Go close to my enemy which i special want to kill. Use ability and sticky to enmey, and start shooting under my feet with Corsair KLA mode (grenade), and kill enemy easy, due i have super speed, while ability raider use bosst, so, deflectors always give me armor, and composite give me even more HP in general, and failsafe just safe me from my own KLA damage. With all of this armor raider can be a really tanky. 
And i just special kill my target without any probs, and then being killing by his team. i.e. I'm speciall kill this player, and die. Than i ressurect myself, and start kill him again, because i'm still have super high defence and ability.

The same situations with berserker, which people use just like "go close to enemy with high armor, use imba-ability, kill both of us, repeat."


And the same situation with Scanner. I put screenshot above where one player called another Cheater and Wallhacker just because he didn't realise that our team use scanner and see whole map. And i can give you another 10 screenshots with the same chat.

The problem, that you (i mean Devs team) don't want to hear US. I play in this game 4 years since beginning, and see these situations every time in many matches since hawken exist. The real problem not how "Casual" players use Scanner or Composite. The real problem how "High tier" players CAN use it AGAINST casual player. Nub-team with incinerator+tech not cause problem. But two High skill players in inci+tech combo is literally "Immortal" for average players. And can just ruine whole match (or siege where effect is doubled). The problem in this thing, how it working if you use it correct, and know HOW it working in reality! not on paper.

This is what about i'm talking before. You not play in you own game. You not see HOW OFTEN players called each other cheaters, just because they can't realise that all of this because scanner, which is actually legal wallhack.
And now just please put yourself on these players place. You yourself would Like to play in a game, that you think "is infested with cheaters?" or "full of of cheater?". Despite in reality these players never be a cheater, but it doesn't matter, because 95% players think they play with cheaters.

Did you really think it is "how it should be"? I think no. And i see problem in this.

Community not asking so much. 

- fix scanner (i know you don't want delete item, but you just can restricted to scanner see walking mechs, i.e. working as small regular mech radar. very easy solution)
- fix inci+tech combo which cause alot of problems due the infinity healing and tonnes of dps with insane firerate from SAARE second mode
- nerf assault a little (u actually already did this, cuz in console version TV = Old Assault, and he just have less HP. i think it is normal)
- delete/rework composite which in combinations with other internal and putting on mech with imba abilities (like raider/ bers/ gren) cause suicidal gameplay. or put it on brawler, and you got insane HP/Def amount and advantage. or atleast added a negative for this internal, like if you use composite, you got higher armor, but suffer from speed debuff, or increase dodge time. it is also stupid, that this internal working only 1 time, i.e. it is disposable, and you need die to use it)
- close holes in walls on uptown, frontline, wreckage, facility (which is mostly problem only in siege mode, but uptown ceiling is can be really anoying cuz you can see whole map)
added some bonus HC earn to Deatmatch and MA mode

You did some good work with ping, with servers (i think many people like it. maybe not all, but i got more comfortable gameplay, for example). Just make some things about community asking for Years. You no need think "this will be better, or worse?", Just bielive US.

We know that these things are "Bad", we have many reasons to called this things "Bad", and we want FIX it. 

Just Believe in OUR hawken gaming experience, the number of hours that WE spent in the game, and OUR hawken skill.


Edited by nepacaka, 17 October 2016 - 01:32 AM.

  • Guns_N_Rozer, -Tj-, 1uster and 3 others like this

Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#26
nepacaka

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I should also added, that obvioulsy, probably many people who have skill higher than me, may disagree with some sort of my opinion. But, as i say, i play in solo-random. i dan't care which rules players use for play in special lobby, play as clan vs clan and do other competitve stats. 

Any Online games population mostly based on random player, and random matches, where players just "want to play" (in our way, just play in game with mech and do some pew-pew). These players don't care that the competitve people only use raidors, sasaolts, grenadiers and infailtrators to play between each others just "because imba and can't be countered!", but the is not the reason to make all other mech suffer or unplayable. like a:
- huh, bruiser is sux, what we do with this?
- nothing. still no one is playing on it. forget. let him sux on...

my opinion full of based on problems which i hate in game and see it many times. things which make people "angry", making a "ragequit", called other cheaters and do some other sh!t. 

My opinion - solo-random (pub) SHOULD BE comfortable to play. Even it is Dota, or LOL, or CS, most of players it is just people who don't know each other, who don't want use mic in game and be a pro. it is a people who came from work/school and want to play one hour and relax. And it should be comfortable for average players to not make these players suffer, and as a result creating effect "fuzzy bunny off this damned game, this is unplayable, i'm out! goodbye scrubs!!!"
this game should be positive, and the annoying things not halp hawken be a positive game (as positive as it possible for competitive gameplay). And if player want use his bruiser, let him use his bruiser and not sux so much. 
let him play more pew-pew and not die by corner play against cyber-athlet because he see it on radar every time, and predict his moves, and than "he is cheater!"

It is all about gameplay, because you know, Only Gameplay motivates people to "stay in the game". Noone camuflages, or new mech, or 500 new maps NOT HELP "keep player in game" if gamplay is sux, or have serious problems. And it doesn't matter how good the game graphic with direct X 15 and 50k polygons on models, it is good for attract, but player leave from game very fast, when he understan than gameplay is really ugly and broken, and have a serious drawbacks. It is all about fixing a gameplay problems for normal, average players, which is bigger part of players in Any game.


Edited by nepacaka, 17 October 2016 - 01:18 AM.

  • Guns_N_Rozer and MomOw like this

Kompotka 3000. 2D ha?ken game: https://community.pl...ve/?hl=kompotka

Interceptor, B-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...itdefence-mech/

Challenger, C-Class mech concept: https://community.pl...ccepted-thread/

G2-Brawler, C-class mech concept: https://community.pl...pacaka-is-here/

Kinetik, B-class mech concept: https://community.pl...ass-shotgunner/

Melter, A-class mech concept: https://community.pl...-class-support/


#27
MomOw

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Nepacaka I love your dedication. Reaching balance in random pubs is harder than in comp play. What happens when you enter a lower lobby ? Is it fun for the ennemy team to get rekt ? Is it fun for you team if you are outnumbered because uneven number of players ?

 

I've seen so many times false hackusation in EU server and that were pple who don't even use cheesy internals / items.

 

IMHO the game must be balanced for comp play and includes all rounder mechs for any class for lower skilled players.

 

About "scanner", "orblords", and in a lesser extent "composite armor" they don't add anything to the game, seriously, removing them won't hurt anybody.

 

Use the sprites for something else  :rolleyes:


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#28
nepacaka

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Reaching balance in random pubs is harder than in comp play.

 

yep, it is harder. but anyway, trying to play let say, Bruser vs Assault, where both of player have equal skill, is much more harder. Even if you put super-effort and your soul into bruiser, assault just beat you by using 2 buttons. It is harder to play, and got you lewer profit, any sense to play except "just play and sux for fun, or use it to kill 1000 nubs with vulcan-d" ?
 

What happens when you enter a lower lobby ? Is it fun for the ennemy team to get rekt ?

 

it is happen mostly if trying to play on shitty mech, or mech like pred, which is more hard to control and required some extra accuracy to be good. but even if i play with some nubs, i can be killed much more easier by team who use raiders, assaults, and berserkers. all what they need is just push me with primaries weapons and some tow. 

and the second Question, why it happened!? i mean, why people like me play with nubs in low-tier lobby? It is because nobody else plays! it is sometimes 40 ppl online. i even rather playing with bots than with people, just because bot play better than many ppl. most of average players just tired from all of this. tired from cheaters (which is 95% of time cheats it is = scanner, or low ping, or skill, or all the things in one time), from stupid siege matches which is 99% predictable, and maps like LE have a very high chance turn siege into: "hey, we have 5 rocketeers, yeah!", from leavers, oh... there is much more problems, but why not start from several which people ask?

And it is obviosly, that now it is much more harder to return game into normal state. Because if before you don't have so much problem with players (amount online), now you have. people endure more than year. And continue play with shitty gameplay, and bielive that devs came and fix all of this, which people asking many times.
but now they don't wait, because it to late. but some of people, for example, still believe in a miracle (i'm not about myself.lol), they not play but still check news, and wait "When" this game return to normal and devs fix "all the thing". or at least part.

 

I've seen so many times false hackusation in EU server and that were pple who don't even use cheesy internals / items.

it is more like a consistent response. Impunity cheaters who exist before, now has meant that people "paranoia" and they tart see "cheater" in everyone, who play better than they did. (But it doesn't mean that the scanner is not a legal wh, lol :3)

 

IMHO the game must be balanced for comp play

 

for the sake of what? it is obviously hawken never go on WCG or other championships. And people who play competitve always use only some part of weapons/chars. it is like people never use LRM in MWO when play competitive, or never use some characters in dota, or some useless weapons in CS, etc.
At the same time this things can be good on pub, where peoples not use/not interesting in super-tactic, timings and other fuzzy bunny.

Notice: when i say "competitive", i mean serious play. 6vs6 + mic. i don't think about hawken like "competitive" just because you pvp with another 6 ppl. it is not competitve for me. competitive - it is only "team vs team", or "duel". where all player play in the same conditions. all other - not. 

the real thing is - hawken don't have duels, and not balanced for duels. and don't have some sort of ranked, for what people can fight as a team. just right now you can play only for fun or interest, it is not give your any real profit, so, it is useless.

---

Look at WoT for example (i actually don't know, euro server for WoT have difference with russian WoT game or not, but...)

I know that WoT since last time got hated by many parameters in gameplay, and by many active auditory (who sit on forum, talking, creating guides, not only play). And this hate was reasonable, because people play with this broken things in gameplay for years, and in one moment, they actually start "resent", and start literally Cry on Wargaming, agressive critism it on forum, and got banned for they criticism. people start do negative videos on youtube, dislike everything what wargaming do on forum (and wargaming actually even delete "dislike" button from forum). 
And you know what? as a result - WG fired his stupid game designer, and hired new. Which now working about 0,5 years and already do more positive changes than previous team of gamedisegners for several years. And they also tell about his planes for people sometimes, like "we plan do this in the next several months, buff this because...*reason*, etc. And it is cool i think. it is how it should be. Now the stuff which wargaming do is much more positive, they still not fix all, but people see that they moving in more positive direction. 

edit:fixed mistakes


Edited by nepacaka, 17 October 2016 - 07:45 AM.

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#29
Guns_N_Rozer

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It is all about gameplay, because you know, Only Gameplay motivates people to "stay in the game". Noone camuflages, or new mech, or 500 new maps NOT HELP "keep player in game" if gamplay is sux, or have serious problems. And it doesn't matter how good the game graphic with direct X 15 and 50k polygons on models, it is good for attract, but player leave from game very fast, when he understan than gameplay is really ugly and broken, and have a serious drawbacks. It is all about fixing a gameplay problems for normal, average players, which is bigger part of players in Any game.

best speech 


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#30
nepacaka

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best speech 

Here the resonable question:

"Nepa, if you think, that gameplay is actually sux, why you still play in this game and don't leave?"

The answer is easy. Because i use brawler, and it help me. Brawler help you when you did mistakes. Brawler can help you against cheater (if cheater not use brawler too, lol). Brawler is mostly based not on human reaction, and you can think while you walking. And brawler can help you win. And i actually can beat air-doge users when they stay close to me (or i stay close to they, due the flak and close-mid range, because i'm Super-sux with long range weapons).
Even after 50 nerfs Brawler is still CAN.

so, This mech actually very sux in 6vs6 rumble, optimal fight for bralwer is a 5vs5 minimum. 3vs3 even much more comfortable. 1vs1 - still one of the imba mechs.

but, any trying to play in 2000+ lobby with another mech which i love, like heat-rockee, or heat-gren, it is just literally "punishment".
this is the reason why i have "rage mode" almost every time. Even if not writing nothing bad in game chat, be sure, i'm in "rage". And even if i'm not very bad with all other mech, even with config stuff which i use to play more with more comfortable cotrols (like auto-charge, or one-button-SS which i used for fun. because i'm less rage when i play on easy mech and press wasd+shift and mouse only), it is still impossible to play on most of half mechs. Just because they now working at all, if you trying to play against stronger opponents. at the same time, mechs like Brawler, or assault, raider, bers - can work.

and with all of this rage causing by hawken gameplay, i still can win. and i feel better than. it is just a luck than i love play on brawler, and brawler one of the mech which not "sux" against strong opponents. probably, if i love play on bruiser, meh... i was leave long time ago, cuz game will be unplayable for me.

and i can only imagine how other people rage sometimes, when trying to play on something else than raider, bers, sult or sherp. So, it is one of the reason why i see only some sort of mechs in game.
just check low tier lobby, and you find that people in it play more interest (not from skill point of view), they use bruisers, stupid weapons combinations, buying t32 for predator and sux with it. it is fun actually, but probably not not very effective. As a result we see lobby with: raiders, ar-saults, scout, infil, slug-ss, breach-pred, smc/mflak-vanguard, vul-gren. and the inci+tech in siege, or 6 rocketters on LE. it is boring, and it is always the same in matches. sometimes i just tired from seeing the same everytime and play about week or monts. then i return, play several matches and everytime i see the same pictures...raiders, salts, bers... pack of C-class in siege at AA wich make every siege super boring and you can counter it only if use the same team with 4000+ HP... and you can't just play on bruiser. Even if you play super very effectively, you team still sux. And you sux. And you understand that nothing changes in this games and leave again, because you tired play against crowd of raiders with EMP and shields, which ignore everything but use composite and trying to kill you (Just because they can) and don't care even if they die with you. 
Just meh.


Edited by nepacaka, 17 October 2016 - 07:49 AM.

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#31
MomOw

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for the sake of what? it is obviously hawken never go on WCG or other championships. And people who play competitve always use only some part of weapons/chars. it is like people never use LRM in MWO when play competitive, or never use some characters in dota, or some useless weapons in CS, etc.
At the same time this things can be good on pub, where peoples not use/not interesting in super-tactic, timings and other fuzzy bunny.
 

 

Because "balanced for comp play" means an overall good balance for skilled players, and not just 1 cheesy tactics. The actual game in organized Missile Assault, is really OK if you remove scanner, orblords.

Some mech need some changes to make them more usable, but appart from the tech+incin nosense, even the 2 above average SA brawler and assault are still manageable (I mean you may lose but not get rekt badly).

 

 

Notice: when i say "competitive", i mean serious play. 6vs6 + mic. i don't think about hawken like "competitive" just because you pvp with another 6 ppl. it is not competitve for me. competitive - it is only "team vs team", or "duel". where all player play in the same conditions. all other - not.

 

I've played only one tournament, but I did plenty of KDR training (when it was still a training), so yes I meant organized play.

 

 

the real thing is - hawken don't have duels, and not balanced for duels. and don't have some sort of ranked, for what people can fight as a team. just right now you can play only for fun or interest, it is not give your any real profit, so, it is useless.

 

This is true :thumbsup:


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#32
1uster

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Your tips, recommendations  and perspective enlightenment are pure gold for the devs.


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#33
teeth_03

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They could probably tweak the values on the current weapons to try to get them more balanced, so I would be fine if the Mechs just had the same options.

With that said, they could do some slight tweaks and break up some of the AR/SMG/Vulcan Mechs, by removing one of those options and adding a lesser used option for funsies.

I would also like to see items and internals swappable between Mechs, or a global unlock option (I'd pay real money for global unlock) or just make them dirt cheap.

#34
onedemnoobs

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Your tips, recommendations  and perspective enlightenment are pure gold for the devs.

 

just for the truth....

 

im glad some one sees it...

 

nepa.... you are destined to make awesome man... js


Puck Flinging-Nade Lobbing-Troll Tech

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::eoc/bolt Pred::Eoc Infil::Vulcanador::Manguard::Hawkins Tech::Zerker::

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#35
EM1O

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BTW, C: what Tournaments?
tpg may still hold practice, but I haven't seen a clan or comp announcement since the elites got banned and the subsequent Rage
6 servers, 54 in game. How's yer cash flow from Steam ? Heh.

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#36
nepacaka

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6 servers, 54 in game. How's yer cash flow from Steam ? Heh.

 

i suppose, there is some reason for this.

this game standing on small amount of players, who not leave even when game working on steam autopilot.
ow half of people banned, and other half leave because disagree with rld politics, i suppose.

 

even forum is pretty dead. people don't create new topics, (or create but it deleting). nothing new not happen. even i tired create the same topics like "devs, do this..., or change this..." etc. 

which sense it is have, if devs making "strongly opposite" things, instead things which people asking?

- we asking new cool camo -> we got new transparent etheric camouflage.

- we asking new mech Not like G2-sasalt -> we got 3 new G2-sasalt with P2W ability.

- we suggest help and advises with balance -> but devs have testers which play in this game first time and even don't know how to play.

the result is a logical. people not stupid, they see this what happen and leave, because they don't want to see all of this in game in which they spent several years. even stronger patience have a limit.

if devs use a politics like: "kill all veterant, and creating new hawken nub-world, without these scrubs!", well, they sucessfully implement it. it really working. congratz.


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#37
lo_spaghetto

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i had no idea people had a problem with composite armor


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#38
CZeroFive

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How's yer cash flow from Steam ? Heh.

 

About the same as it was with 500-2000 CCU, to be quite honest. Hawken is simply not generating revenue in its current state, and any adjustments we make would not change that. Especially balance changes as they do not affect revenue.. more players isn't equal to more money spent in Hawken's case.

 

 

which sense it is have, if devs making "strongly opposite" things, instead things which people asking?

- we asking new cool camo -> we got new transparent etheric camouflage.

- we asking new mech Not like G2-sasalt -> we got 3 new G2-sasalt with P2W ability.

- we suggest help and advises with balance -> but devs have testers which play in this game first time and even don't know how to play.

 

All three of these comments border opinions, in all honesty.

 

 

First of all, not all player want to use play on rental server. Maybe i don't have 11 friends to play with? or maybe just want to play in "solo-random" (how i always play in hawken, and i think, not only i use this method to play. just press "play" and kill someone). It is not an answer and not a solution.

 

You misinterpreted my concept of 'rental servers'. I was thinking more along the lines of old Quake3 servers, where you could join a game with a special ruleset through the server browser - not a private server locked behind a password. Maybe even a checkbox to 'queue' into rental servers if you wanted to opt-in. These would be forms of revenue for us and fairness for the community.

 

 

3 weapons it is good, but some mech have a problem and literally just unplayable if you want to play seriously:

 

The same could be said about any mech, really, beyond the ones that are overpowered. The problem with making these changes are really that there would be no short-term benefit to buffing them. What if the changes we make to underpowered mechs cause another balance issue? We'd end up reverting it, wasting development time on this instead of fixing why this game is uninspiring to newer players.

 

I am talking about the players who play one match and then never play again. There's an alarming amount of them and we've been tracking that data for a good couple months now. Here's a few things I identified that took virtually no time to think of:

 

1) The core gameplay is not fun to beginning users. No amount of balance changes will fix that. We have an uninspiring tutorial with monotone voiceovers and hand-holding, the game is confusing to understand unless you invest time into it, and there's not really a rhyme or reason to come back to the game and play it once you've experienced it once.

 

2) The lore/feel of the game is being violated because the lore/feel hasn't really been defined. Beyond a few snippets of text and in-game visuals, we haven't really defined any of the lore in the game. It just is... a nitty-gritty post-apocalyptic mech arena shooter with flavor text thrown in. Yes, we have lore, but outside of the comic books, the intro cinematic (which was also a TV spot, by the way) it hasn't been really defined ingame at all beyond a few text fields. And don't get me started on the console UI... something 'feels off' about it compared to the rest of the game's nitty-gritty feelings.

 

Lastly, I'll address these:

 

 

ommunity not asking so much. 

- fix scanner (i know you don't want delete item, but you just can restricted to scanner see walking mechs, i.e. working as small regular mech radar. very easy solution)
- fix inci+tech combo which cause alot of problems due the infinity healing and tonnes of dps with insane firerate from SAARE second mode
- nerf assault a little (u actually already did this, cuz in console version TV = Old Assault, and he just have less HP. i think it is normal)
- delete/rework composite which in combinations with other internal and putting on mech with imba abilities (like raider/ bers/ gren) cause suicidal gameplay. or put it on brawler, and you got insane HP/Def amount and advantage. or atleast added a negative for this internal, like if you use composite, you got higher armor, but suffer from speed debuff, or increase dodge time. it is also stupid, that this internal working only 1 time, i.e. it is disposable, and you need die to use it)
- close holes in walls on uptown, frontline, wreckage, facility (which is mostly problem only in siege mode, but uptown ceiling is can be really anoying cuz you can see whole map)
added some bonus HC earn to Deatmatch and MA mode

 

-Scanner - Yes, the internal will have to be tweaked in some way. There's been 10 different iterations of a fix posted on the forums by players and no matter which one we pick or choose I feel like we'll lose.

 

-Inci/Tech combo - We have the ability to tweak things on the fly, if this really becomes an issue again (it most likely will) we can adjust the incin/tech stats/weapon stats on the fly. We can't even do that on PC right now and we'd rather not touch anything until the codebases are synced up.

 

-Composite Internal -  may see some changes. My goal this afternoon is to think of entirely new internal and minimize the impact of changes to existing internals (if anything we'll tweak values or add effects to existing internals). I'd personally like to make you take increased damage while the effect is active from composite, that seems like a better idea than a pure bonus for 1 kill (or 2 assists) and gives the enemy you're fighting the same bonus against you.

 

-Holes in the walls - Quite honestly these are going to take a bit to track down, but thankfully we have the pipeline for content at a stage where we can add invis walls and patch these up. I'll be going over these, but they probably won't be in until after the next console update. I swear we asked for this info in the past but if we could have a centralized thread for those, I'd prefer to go over them sooner than later.


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#39
DerMax

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I am talking about the players who play one match and then never play again. There's an alarming amount of them and we've been tracking that data for a good couple months now. Here's a few things I identified that took virtually no time to think of:

 

1) The core gameplay is not fun to beginning users. No amount of balance changes will fix that. We have an uninspiring tutorial with monotone voiceovers and hand-holding, the game is confusing to understand unless you invest time into it, and there's not really a rhyme or reason to come back to the game and play it once you've experienced it once.

 

2) The lore/feel of the game is being violated because the lore/feel hasn't really been defined. Beyond a few snippets of text and in-game visuals, we haven't really defined any of the lore in the game. It just is... a nitty-gritty post-apocalyptic mech arena shooter with flavor text thrown in. Yes, we have lore, but outside of the comic books, the intro cinematic (which was also a TV spot, by the way) it hasn't been really defined ingame at all beyond a few text fields. And don't get me started on the console UI... something 'feels off' about it compared to the rest of the game's nitty-gritty feelings.

Does this mean you are planning to drastically change the game to make it appeal to new players and define the lore?



#40
Hyginos

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About the same as it was with 500-2000 CCU, to be quite honest. Hawken is simply not generating revenue in its current state, and any adjustments we make would not change that. Especially balance changes as they do not affect revenue.. more players isn't equal to more money spent in Hawken's case.


So...

What does this mean in terms of actual development? I have to imagine it can't bode well for the number of man-hours available for development.

 

Also I fail to see how more players does not translate to more revenue, if purely from a law of large numbers perspective.

 

 

You misinterpreted my concept of 'rental servers'. I was thinking more along the lines of old Quake3 servers, where you could join a game with a special ruleset through the server browser - not a private server locked behind a password. Maybe even a checkbox to 'queue' into rental servers if you wanted to opt-in. These would be forms of revenue for us and fairness for the community.


RIP comp play. Not so sure "fairness for the community" has anything to do with it though, so long as people pay for it.

 

Why not both?

 

1) The core gameplay is not fun to beginning users. No amount of balance changes will fix that. We have an uninspiring tutorial with monotone voiceovers and hand-holding, the game is confusing to understand unless you invest time into it, and there's not really a rhyme or reason to come back to the game and play it once you've experienced it once.

 

And your solution was to add emojis and a progression system that looks P2W at first glance? I seem to recall having to scour the menus in the console build to even find the tutorial.

 

 

2) The lore/feel of the game is being violated because the lore/feel hasn't really been defined. Beyond a few snippets of text and in-game visuals, we haven't really defined any of the lore in the game. It just is... a nitty-gritty post-apocalyptic mech arena shooter with flavor text thrown in. Yes, we have lore, but outside of the comic books, the intro cinematic (which was also a TV spot, by the way) it hasn't been really defined ingame at all beyond a few text fields. And don't get me started on the console UI... something 'feels off' about it compared to the rest of the game's nitty-gritty feelings.

 

Even if the only thing your art team can figure out about Hawken's artistic style is the "nitty-gritty post apocalyptic mech arena shooter", they have already failed to adhere to that with some of the most recent cosmetic entries.

 

That said, I'm not sure breaking the immersion or the style or whatever is really the primary gripe with the newer cosmetics. The new cosmetics appear to be insultingly low effort, especially when community members can come back with better concepts in a matter of hours.

 

You guys should just buy nepakaka a case of beer and have him crank out a dozen skin concepts.

 

-Scanner - Yes, the internal will have to be tweaked in some way. There's been 10 different iterations of a fix posted on the forums by players and no matter which one we pick or choose I feel like we'll lose.

 

First off, Scanner is an item, not an internal. As long as the thing is decidedly nerfed it will at least move in the right direction. I don't think the community would be too bothered if it iterated a bit.

 

 

-Inci/Tech combo - We have the ability to tweak things on the fly, if this really becomes an issue again (it most likely will) we can adjust the incin/tech stats/weapon stats on the fly. We can't even do that on PC right now and we'd rather not touch anything until the codebases are synced up.

 

-Composite Internal -  may see some changes. My goal this afternoon is to think of entirely new internal and minimize the impact of changes to existing internals (if anything we'll tweak values or add effects to existing internals). I'd personally like to make you take increased damage while the effect is active from composite, that seems like a better idea than a pure bonus for 1 kill (or 2 assists) and gives the enemy you're fighting the same bonus against you.

 

Honestly I would argue that neither of these things are even worth looking at for the foreseeable future. As you said, balance isn't going to generate revenue.

 

 

-Holes in the walls - Quite honestly these are going to take a bit to track down, but thankfully we have the pipeline for content at a stage where we can add invis walls and patch these up. I'll be going over these, but they probably won't be in until after the next console update. I swear we asked for this info in the past but if we could have a centralized thread for those, I'd prefer to go over them sooner than later.

 

 

This might help some:

Spoiler

 

As long as I have you here, can you tell us anything about the hierarchy of priorities for Hawken development now?


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MFW Howken

 

My post count is neat.





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