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#1
Merl61

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I know they can do it without a client side patch, and even if they can't, the radius could just be changed to 0. This is one of the things that EVERYONE agrees on. Why not show the community that you're REALLY committed to making big impact balance changes. The reason that I say a week is so that if something goes terribly wrong (somehow I doubt that it will) it can be reverted. In the last Q&A Josh said that there would be week trial versions of certain things. Why not start now? What do you guys think? 

 

 


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#2
Lioot

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I happen to like scanners because I'm that kind of a player.

 

I say increase scanner range to cover the whole map and see how that plays out


Edited by Lioot, 08 October 2015 - 01:33 AM.

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#3
Panzermanathod

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This is one of the things that EVERYONE agrees on. Why not show the community that you're REALLY committed to making big impact balance changes. The reason that I say a week is so that if something goes terribly wrong (somehow I doubt that it will) it can be reverted. I

 

I don't know, removing an item doesn't feel like a balance change. It just feels like removing an item.


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#4
Merl61

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I don't know, removing an item doesn't feel like a balance change. It just feels like removing an item.

When the very concept of the item is fundamentally broken, I'd say that it's a fine balance change. Only balanced scanner is a dead scanner. 


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#5
SupremeFetish

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This would effectively remove content from the game. I think this is a pretty bad idea, and the scanner in it's current state isn't even that bad.



#6
DerMax

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Merl, the Q&A was almost a month ago, and we've agreed with Josh to do Q&As once a month. Know what I'm getting at?


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#7
Rainbow_Sheep

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I'd be happy for this to happen

Another thing that would be cool to do is Extractor / Repair Kit / Orbz tweaking for a week - Twiddle with the numbers and see how it pans out

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#8
kvazarsky

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So... scanner is broken/op, but Predator's see-through-wall vision is ok? Interesting.



#9
Bergwein

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Stalker Vision has downsides (can't boost/dodge, very limited range, still can't see what's behind you) whereas dropping a Scanner has literally no downsides while being immensely powerful compared to other items.


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#10
Kauyon

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I agree with this on paper, but I have the feeling a lot of people would get assblasted their Mk III items now don't work, especially if they don't get anything in return.

Even for a week, players with scanners should be given some other items (scramblers?) or just the HC.

 

And orblord nerfs are as urgent, if not more. Maybe halve all the % for repair kit and extractors?

 

So... scanner is broken/op, but Predator's see-through-wall vision is ok? Interesting.

 

Scanner has more than 100 meters of range, pred vision has around 50 (I don't know the exact number).


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#11
FEF-FEFington

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I happen to like scanners because I'm that kind of a player.

 

I say increase scanner range to cover the whole map and see how that plays out

Classic Lioot...  :no:


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#12
Pleasure_Mortar

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I agree with this on paper, but I have the feeling a lot of people would get assblasted their Mk III items now don't work, especially if they don't get anything in return.

Even for a week, players with scanners should be given some other items (scramblers?) or just the HC.

 

And orblord nerfs are as urgent, if not more. Maybe halve all the % for repair kit and extractors?

 

 

Scanner has more than 100 meters of range, pred vision has around 50 (I don't know the exact number).

I agree a lot of people would get real emotional, just think about the angry threads on the steam forum, HOWEVER, this is Hawken BETA.

I think everyone would be better off to accept that Hawken is not a finished product, that there are bugs and glitches and balance issues and that things might be changed. 



#13
WmMoneyFrmMissouri

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Poopslinger said it best, orb lording fix needed first.
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#14
Hyginos

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#15
Kopra

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You just activated my Portable Scanner.


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#16
ATX22

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I know they can do it without a client side patch, and even if they can't, the radius could just be changed to 0. This is one of the things that EVERYONE agrees on. Why not show the community that you're REALLY committed to making big impact balance changes. The reason that I say a week is so that if something goes terribly wrong (somehow I doubt that it will) it can be reverted. In the last Q&A Josh said that there would be week trial versions of certain things. Why not start now? What do you guys think? 

 

Maybe, once Reloaded starts making content updates.  There's not an overabundance of stuff to remove from Hawken, yanking content out of an already stale game isn't exactly helping.



#17
thedark20

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Make it like a pulse scanner, so it just refreshes every 3 seconds for example


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#18
americanbrit14

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Make it like a pulse scanner, so it just refreshes every 3 seconds for example

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#19
GreyFa1con

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Make it like a pulse scanner, so it just refreshes every 3 seconds for example


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#20
Sylhiri

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Maybe, once Reloaded starts making content updates.  There's not an overabundance of stuff to remove from Hawken, yanking content out of an already stale game isn't exactly helping.

 

It's for a week and you still need to balance the game after making changes anyway. Why not test stuff now while we are sitting around with our thumbs up our butt instead of waiting half a year or more (?) until they are able to cilent patch. Give a good reason of why we shouldn't be testing what we can now to improve Hawken for the future?

 

It actually might keep the game interesting because something significant actually happened in the course of over a year.


Edited by Sylhiri, 08 October 2015 - 08:41 AM.


#21
crockrocket

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I don't think enough people actually use scanners for a one week trial to provide any meaningful results. Now, if there was a one week tril, and the scanner just didn't come back....


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#22
Amidatelion

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Make it like a pulse scanner, so it just refreshes every 3 seconds for example

 

The issue with this is that it is a client side change which is months away from being possible. It is a mechanical change as opposed to a statistical, server-side change which doesn't require a patch.



#23
Hyginos

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The issue with this is that it is a client side change which is months away from being possible. It is a mechanical change as opposed to a statistical, server-side change which doesn't require a patch.

 

You could make the duration really short, effectively giving you a single use radar burst. Just make the duration 3 seconds.


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#24
Amidatelion

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You could make the duration really short, effectively giving you a single use radar burst. Just make the duration 3 seconds.

 

Now there's an idea, sure.



#25
Panzermanathod

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I agree a lot of people would get real emotional, just think about the angry threads on the steam forum, HOWEVER, this is Hawken BETA.

I think everyone would be better off to accept that Hawken is not a finished product, that there are bugs and glitches and balance issues and that things might be changed. 

 

Let's examine this line of reasoning.

 

Hawken is not finished. More stuff needs to be changed and added.

 

The first major change in content that is playable under the new devs is the removal of an item.

 

As was said before, Hawken needs a lot of work and had remained relatively stagnant. People want new content, so, as of now, removal of an item that's been around for a long time is not "building up" the game. It's removing something. I'm not saying it absolutely should not be removed, just that it shouldn't be removed now, especially since issues with radar balance are not exclusive to the scanner.

 

 

 

It actually might keep the game interesting because something significant actually happened in the course of over a year.

 

No, it wouldn't really make it much more interesting to remove an item. It might change the playstyles of people who use scanners heavily (I hardly use them myself), but overall it's unreasonable to say that the game becomes more interesting when one removes things and make no changes.



#26
ATX22

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It's for a week and you still need to balance the game after making changes anyway. Why not test stuff now while we are sitting around with our thumbs up our butt instead of waiting half a year or more (?) until they are able to cilent patch. Give a good reason of why we shouldn't be testing what we can now to improve Hawken for the future?

 

It actually might keep the game interesting because something significant actually happened in the course of over a year.

 

Well, for starters, changing how it works, like how Hyginos suggested would be much better than intentionally breaking it or yanking it out of the game.  It's a damn good idea.  I'm of the opinion that Reloaded should avoid pulling too much out of Hawken until they have something to put back in.  Besides, this game has been dying since ADH tossed it onto STEAM and probably a while before.  How is hacking off pieces that you don't like going to ensure a future for it?  Should we yank out health orbs too?  How about the tech?  Shouldn't be too hard to find people who have balancing issues with either of those two.. maybe even nerf or remove the incinerator while everyone is in the mood for picking this game apart.



#27
IareDave

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Let's be honest, the people who do use it are more than likely not participants from TPG (speaking from US side) and if you aren't on TPG chances are you aren't very good to begin with and playing against that type of player with a scanner is negligible.

 

Orblording is a far bigger balance concern than scanners, but once again, most TPG players don't run that in pubs.



#28
Merl61

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For those of you saying that it would "remove content" scanner isn't content. It's basically map hacks that some bonehead thought would be a good idea to put into the game. It wasn't. Scanner creates bad habits in the person using it and ruins the game in many cases. I agree that ideally it would be changed and not removed, that isn't possible right now. What is is taking an obviously broken item out of the game. I'm not even saying permanently! Just for a week to see how it goes! As others have stated, IT'S A BETA. It's ment to be tweaked and experimented with.

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#29
Merl61

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Merl, the Q&A was almost a month ago, and we've agreed with Josh to do Q&As once a month. Know what I'm getting at?

Yes. We will see what we can do.

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#30
SatelliteJack

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So long as they announce it and put up a survey* for it, then it gets the thumbs up from me.

*Better yet, link it to a discussion a page on the forums. Test balance and boost community involvement.

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#31
Hyginos

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IT'S A BETA. 

 

After 3 years this becomes nothing more than a tiresome and flimsy excuse. The presence or absence of beta tag has little impact on player experience, and ultimately that's where the money comes from.


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#32
Aregon

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After 3 years this becomes nothing more than a tiresome and flimsy excuse. The presence or absence of beta tag has little impact on player experience, and ultimately that's where the money comes from.

Something I at least go after is that if it allows you to pay money to get stuff at all in the game, it is not a proper beta. A proper beta, alpha or really anything not ready to be released should be free for microtransactions so everyone are able to test everything to the full extent. 


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#33
TheButtSatisfier

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Something I at least go after is that if it allows you to pay money to get stuff at all in the game, it is not a proper beta. A proper beta, alpha or really anything not ready to be released should be free for microtransactions so everyone are able to test everything to the full extent. 

 

I'd rather play a mildly imbalanced Hawken that receives some measure of revenue over a balanced Hawken that receives no revenue at all.

 

Mostly because the latter Hawken wouldn't be playable without employees and infrastructure - which require funding - to keep this game alive.


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#34
6ixxer

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thedark20, on 09 Oct 2015 - 02:35 AM, said:

Make it like a pulse scanner, so it just refreshes every 3 seconds for example

 

3 seconds seems longer than necessary. I think start with 2 (although this sounds like a proper code change).

 

I suggest the week trial affect only private servers? on private servers set scanner distance to 0?

 

Perhaps later a server parameter that allows private server admins the ability to set scanners/jammers and repair charges to auto destruct after placing.



#35
Panzermanathod

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For those of you saying that it would "remove content" scanner isn't content.

 

You not liking the item does not make it a non-entity. It is an item that can be equipped. It is part of the game.

 

If you don't like it, fine. If you want it gone, fine. As I've said I'm not a scanner user myself most times. But don't go so far out of your way to justify its removal by creating such faulty reasoning as "it's not even content" despite it having physical presence in the game, or that because it's a beta the removal is justified even though whether or not its a beta has no bearing over whether or not the item stays, especially nowadays where full, "complete" games can get altered as well on a more wide scale basis.

 

And as far as bad habits go, don't act like the scanner, under normal use, is such a "bad habit". Especially in a game where the scanner is hardly the only object of contention within the playerbase.

 

Really, the trial should be something limited to public servers since it does actively involve taking away something from the players



#36
JackVandal

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im up for this for the most part, though i feel players who purchased it should get something in its place if its totally removed, it is content, i think its broken content, but it is content.


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#37
Sylhiri

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im up for this for the most part, though i feel players who purchased it should get something in its place if its totally removed, it is content, i think its broken content, but it is content.

 

I don't think it would be removed but remade into something else, the model and sound effects are still very much useable.


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#38
EM1O

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Change it into a sonar screen. Voila! A new op item!

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#39
Lioot

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I think we're missing the point here.

 

Why remove scanners when we can buff them up so much that everyone uses them? Its fair that way



#40
Ashfire908

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I don't think it would be removed but remade into something else, the model and sound effects are still very much useable.


Basically this. Removing an item (even for a short period of time) is a huge PITA, and is not really a viable option for reasons that may not be immediately apparent.
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