... can we please stop this?
Player 2500 MMR
Player 1300 MMR
... can we please stop this?
Player 2500 MMR
Player 1300 MMR
- Sitting next to the sound box in Last Eco -
Can you please stream a bit? I'd love to see that mighty EOC in your hands again. ![]()
Can you please stream a bit? I'd love to see that mighty EOC in your hands again.
For some reason it stutters alot at all qualtiy settings :/
Elite: Dangerous is fine with 720p 60 FPS but Hawken stutters at both, 144p 30 FPS and 1080p 60 FPS. Tried so much stuff :P
Edited by FakeName, 24 April 2016 - 06:19 AM.
- Sitting next to the sound box in Last Eco -
Eh, what a bummer.
Anyways, good to have you back. I'll try to come back permanently at some point.
Until devs bring Hwk back to life from its zombie state, THIS is here to stay :/
It shouldn't be that hard to just get rid of the dumb MM. Completely random matches are still better than intentionally bad ones.
Common case that the teamscore is 2/35 and guess who made the only two kills. 2/2 so 33 deaths and 0 kills the rest of the team.
I see that like every 3rd game. Either do we win 40/0 or we lose 0/40 lol.
- Sitting next to the sound box in Last Eco -
If you were really 2500 you'd win anyway. Or maybe that's what you're saying.

Thanks to Badtings for this awesome banner!
What's the big fuzzy bunnyng deal? Lots of amazing people have committed suicide, and they turned out alright.
I like how you say temporarily like it is a threat.
CRITICAL ASSIST

If you were really 2500 you'd win anyway. Or maybe that's what you're saying.
- Sitting next to the sound box in Last Eco -
Seems about as balanced as that situation could be.. high mmr guy has all the lowest on his team and everyone else on the other.
The problem is that matchmaker takes ranks literally. My mmr recently has been as high as 2400 and as low as 2000. If everyone potentially had a 400 point variance...
Not to mention that smurf accounts with the starting mmr get placed with the high mmr players, throwing way off the balance of a match and bringing everyone's mmr down, throwing off matchmaking entirely.
Also, one above average player can't be expected to babysit and save all his low-rank teammates from getting rekt.
If you want numbers, then if you average out the teams, the team with the high mmr player has an average rank of 1408, while the other team has an average of 1641.
Low player numbers = unbalanced matches. Until the player pop increases dramatically this will mostly continue to be the case and any type of MM system will always have problems trying to create equal teams of like skill.
There will never be a fix for this until Hawken gets and retains more players for the game.
#HawkenForLife
First of all, you garbage tier sock merchant, I said most of us.
You Norwegian fart market.
Low player numbers = unbalanced matches. Until the player pop increases dramatically this will mostly continue to be the case and any type of MM system will always have problems trying to create equal teams of like skill.
There will never be a fix for this until Hawken gets and retains more players for the game.
- Sitting next to the sound box in Last Eco -
before throwing out ideas, just think of the nightmares of reprogramming something to your liking...
that drive will be much stronger if you sent adhesive gaming 100,000 dollars.
Hold on to the things you care about most, even if others see it as insignificant..If you can't be true to yourself, are you really living?





































You mean, I get to play DM all the time, while the other poor fools play TDM?
Hmmm.... considering it...
Did I say Call Me Ishmael?
You should call me Luna.
... can we please stop this?
I guess that you already have tested the alternate solutions such as having checked herokuapp / players of your skill level in your contact list / moving to an empty server and sending invite / played in private server
Pubs ...

you can balance it by playing bad mech , u r realy bad in mech , so it will balance
you can balance it by playing bad mech , u r realy bad in mech , so it will balance
I started to play Raider ...
- Sitting next to the sound box in Last Eco -
I guess that you already have tested the alternate solutions such as having checked herokuapp / players of your skill level in your contact list / moving to an empty server and sending invite / played in private server
Pubs ...
I am not in the mood to spend 20 minutes searchign for a 10 minute long match. I am sorry :P
- Sitting next to the sound box in Last Eco -
The only thing that can really be done to stop this kind of imbalance is to NOT start matches until the whole lobby is full (or mostly so) and fix the party system to allow it to break parties up on to different teams.
The first point really shouldn't be addressed with the current low player-base.
The second point should have been fixed years ago... and should be easy to fix immediately.
To be serious for a moment this is just a joke
A typical 2200 mmr player can handle 2 x low mmr players at the same time, a 2500 one probably 3 x low mmr players. The number of enemies to fight at a time is a limiting factor to a high mmr player, because at some point their fuel and ability run out, their mechs break down.
As a (blunt) suggestion, why not double the effective mmr count of 2200 mmr players and triple that of a 2500 one, for instance: 2200 + 1600 vs 1500 + 1500 + 1500 + 1500.
A match like this is going to have too few players (only 6) for a duration, so allow queued players to spectate until enough spectating players can evenly divide into two groups, with +- 200 difference? thus 2200 + 1600 + 1800(new join) + 1200(new join) + 1600(new join) (effective=10600) vs 1500 x 4 + 2250 (new join). (effective =10500) and it's now a 5 v 5
Spectating players with the lowest mmr get to join game first. so if 1500, 1500 and a 2200 guy are spectating, the two 1500 guys get to play first.
the one with highest mmr among spectating players should join the other team which does not have a high mmr player, else random assign.
and maybe 1900 mmr players should count as 1.5 times effective. and 1700 1.2 times effective, etc.. (have to rework the above example) bah, rough math for now.
if the spectators leave, and queue again, redirect them to another server because they probably dont want to spectate again in the same server they came out of.
higher mmr who always lose playing chance to low mmr players may eventually sit in an empty server instead. (voila!) or fuzzy bunny uninst
oh if only spectate works.
just a thought
[edit: my dumb math]
Edited by Yehovah, 25 April 2016 - 09:02 AM.
There are no real viable fixes for this mm / mmr imbalance act until the game can increase and maintain a suitable and substantial player base. Until that happens high and low tier players are going to continue to be added together in servers and we will just have to deal with it for now.
The only other real solution atm is to go back to segregating the high and low players that can join a server....and we all know what happens. Not enough total high skilled players to find matches that they are allowed to enter which leaves that segment without substantial playing time which isn't fair.
Reloaded, I know you're working hard....but...whatever is taking place now with all you folks involved on all fronts (developers, mgmt, legal, etc.) please get it done soon to be able to get the patches, updates, new content, etc. etc. etc. released to start building a strong and long lasting community of players that will want to stay.
*+
#HawkenForLife
First of all, you garbage tier sock merchant, I said most of us.
You Norwegian fart market.
get to play DM all the time,
Josh please

Ridding the world of evil, one Berzerker at a time.
Unbalanced matches happen everywhere (Remember Soccer worldcup 2014? Germany - Brazil 7:1). Even in KDR practice where we can balance teams ourselves depending on our mmr and experience. Sure, in pub matches, the matchmaker has to deal with a severe spread of skill which he can only seperate by a number. But the matchmaker can not handle map knowledge, experience, communication skills (obsolete in pubs) and many more factors.
You are right: MM has a (very) small pool to pick from. But what messes up 90% of my pubs are people joining and quitting midgame. Not only does it seem to be the lack of frustration tolerance of players. I think it is also the way the UI is designed. People don't seem to know they can choose (at least in lower levels) from servers. So they just click launch again after leaving and land (surprise surprise) on the same server again, due to the lack of available games. The star system is also very misleading. I still find quite experienced players to tell people to "GET ON A ONE STAR SERVER, NOOB".
And this:
There are no real viable fixes for this mm / mmr imbalance act until the game can increase and maintain a suitable and substantial player base. Until that happens high and low tier players are going to continue to be added together in servers and we will just have to deal with it for now.
The only other real solution atm is to go back to segregating the high and low players that can join a server....and we all know what happens. Not enough total high skilled players to find matches that they are allowed to enter which leaves that segment without substantial playing time which isn't fair.
Reloaded, I know you're working hard....but...whatever is taking place now with all you folks involved on all fronts (developers, mgmt, legal, etc.) please get it done soon to be able to get the patches, updates, new content, etc. etc. etc. released to start building a strong and long lasting community of players that will want to stay.



KDR Veteran Member / KDR Server Administrator
In Siege, there'd be a 50/50 chance the highest MMR guy/gal would get so frustrated at their teammates that the high MMR person team would lose
In Siege, there'd be a 50/50 chance the highest MMR guy/gal would get so frustrated at their teammates that the high MMR person team would lose
- Sitting next to the sound box in Last Eco -
I love DM, favourite mode in Elite: Dangerous as well but in Hawken TDM is played because players tend to fail on their own and need support while as in Elite the dev team supports DM by anouncing events (even with prices) only for DM. They know that DM is harder than TDM.You mean, I get to play DM all the time, while the other poor fools play TDM?
Hmmm.... considering it...
Edited by FakeName, 26 April 2016 - 12:24 AM.
- Sitting next to the sound box in Last Eco -
pub matches
Found your problem.
balance pub matches
Does not compute.
"Git gud" or get stomped tryin'.
Treat them with honour, my Brothers.
Not because they will bring us victory this day,
but because their fate will one day be ours.
In Siege, there'd be a 50/50 chance the highest MMR guy/gal would get so frustrated at their teammates that the high MMR person team would lose
If there's only one high-MMR player it is likely that he/she will be put with noobs only on his side, where he/she needs to carry his full team which is not easy even in TDM, and in siege is usually impossible.
EDIT: eliminated male chauvinism (saw that Emily is reading the topic)
Edited by someone, 26 April 2016 - 03:06 AM.
Ceterum censeo ... bootcamp-servers! &:
#rapidMMR4newaccounts #removethedelay
#morespeed4EOC #lessspread4T-32
#buffG2R #nerfZerk'n'Assault
#dosomethingwithHF #noisesupression4breacher
THANKS FOR THIS AWESOME GAME!
on reading several posts: BZFlag incorporated a Rogue position, where one or more tanks were non-team affiliated in a server. it could attack/be attacked by anyone, YOLOing, humiliatingly smash an underdog team, or "balancing" a horribly unequal match at will. just sayin'
#: chown -R us ./base

"...oh great Itzamna, you shall know Us by the trail of Dead."
There are no real viable fixes for this mm / mmr imbalance act until the game can increase and maintain a suitable and substantial player base. Until that happens high and low tier players are going to continue to be added together in servers and we will just have to deal with it for now.
The only other real solution atm is to go back to segregating the high and low players that can join a server....and we all know what happens. Not enough total high skilled players to find matches that they are allowed to enter which leaves that segment without substantial playing time which isn't fair.
Reloaded, I know you're working hard....but...whatever is taking place now with all you folks involved on all fronts (developers, mgmt, legal, etc.) please get it done soon to be able to get the patches, updates, new content, etc. etc. etc. released to start building a strong and long lasting community of players that will want to stay.
*+
Is the lack of highly skilled players a bigger problem than the lack of new/low skill players? It seems to me that most of the players playing now have been here for months if not years, and that its the low skill players who are a rarity. And what I see in the alleged "3 star" low skill matches I get placed into is that at least one of them is a Smurf playing an Assault in their new account. So in truth, it seems there are even fewer TRULY new players than it seems. It just seems to me that there are definitely enough 1800+ players for them to have their own servers - maybe not 24 hours a day, but for a lot of it.
Case in point. Last Friday night around 10pm EST (prime gaming time) I'm playing in a "3 Star" match and the teams are really balanced. Keep in mind my MMR was around 1450 at the time. Then a certain player I cannot name here joins OUR match. I know this name well, and he is in the top 10 on the Leaderboard, with an MMR around 2500. So our MMR range suddenly went to 1400-2550, or something similar. I instantly left the match, because I wanted to see what was going on. As I suspected, there were AT LEAST THREE other TDM matches of higher MMR going on or forming (less stars for me), all of them with between 6 and 10 players. In short, there was NO WAY this person could say they HAD to join our match. In another ironic twist, that "3 Star" match I had been playing in, was now a "1 Star" match, because of who had just joined. All of this took me less than 30 seconds to do, and I rejoined the original match to see how it would turn out. Sure enough, it was something like 40-15, with the 2500+ MMR player getting over 700 points, everyone else sub 200. Over half of the players left the match at the end.
THIS, in my humble opinion, is why we cannot retain new players. There is no way that a player like this should have been able to join, and subsequently destroy, our match.
Case in point. Last Friday night around 10pm EST (prime gaming time) I'm playing in a "3 Star" match and the teams are really balanced. Keep in mind my MMR was around 1450 at the time. Then a certain player I cannot name here joins OUR match. I know this name well, and he is in the top 10 on the Leaderboard, with an MMR around 2500. So our MMR range suddenly went to 1400-2550, or something similar. I instantly left the match, because I wanted to see what was going on. As I suspected, there were AT LEAST THREE other TDM matches of higher MMR going on or forming (less stars for me), all of them with between 6 and 10 players. In short, there was NO WAY this person could say they HAD to join our match. In another ironic twist, that "3 Star" match I had been playing in, was now a "1 Star" match, because of who had just joined. All of this took me less than 30 seconds to do, and I rejoined the original match to see how it would turn out. Sure enough, it was something like 40-15, with the 2500+ MMR player getting over 700 points, everyone else sub 200. Over half of the players left the match at the end.
THIS, in my humble opinion, is why we cannot retain new players. There is no way that a player like this should have been able to join, and subsequently destroy, our match.
A 2500 mmr player cannot join a match with an average of less than 2200 from the server browser: he must be placed in the server by the matchmaker. If the other matches you saw were either in a map change or had high mmr joins after the player in question had queued, it is not unreasonable to assume that the player simply quick matched and ended up in that server. It is something that has happened to me personally before, and while I have taken to scanning the app for potential matches before queuing up, not everyone will be cognizant of that.
It is easy to assume malice, but the player probably just queued up for TDM and played whatever server it dropped him in without thinking to much about it either way.
THIS, in my humble opinion, is why we cannot retain new players. There is no way that a player like this should have been able to join, and subsequently destroy, our match.
To be clear: your position is that Hawken's matchmaker, which was designed to function with a population much larger than what we've got now, is the reason why we can't keep new players?
Put another way, are you are saying that fixing matchmaker would retain more new players than adding new content and/or heavily advertising this game?
To be clear: your position is that Hawken's matchmaker, which was designed to function with a population much larger than what we've got now, is the reason why we can't keep new players?
Put another way, are you are saying that fixing matchmaker would retain more new players than adding new content and/or heavily advertising this game?
Sorry, I'm admittedly still new and not understanding everything right. I just get frustrated when what happened Friday night happens and ruins everything for everyone else. I can think of zero reason that MM would place that person in OUR match when there were three other higher MMR matches still forming and/or not full.
I DO believe that an experience like that will make a new player stop playing. Nothing is more discouraging than having a "Nemesis" just 2 minutes into the match, and ending the match with zero kills and 8 deaths. Like I said, almost all the players left the match at the end, because it was clearly unfun (even for the winning side). Prior to that we had (mostly) the same group for several matches in a row.
It seems to me that what you mentioned will help to GET new players. But as far as KEEPING them, we need to keep the top players away from the newbies and poor players (like myself), in my opinion.
Sorry, I'm admittedly still new and not understanding everything right. I just get frustrated when what happened Friday night happens and ruins everything for everyone else. I can think of zero reason that MM would place that person in OUR match when there were three other higher MMR matches still forming and/or not full.
It's nothing to apologize for, and I don't blame you for feeling that way. It's definitely not an enjoyable experience for most people involved, and I don't like it either.
I DO believe that an experience like that will make a new player stop playing. Nothing is more discouraging than having a "Nemesis" just 2 minutes into the match, and ending the match with zero kills and 8 deaths. Like I said, almost all the players left the match at the end, because it was clearly unfun (even for the winning side). Prior to that we had (mostly) the same group for several matches in a row.
I agree that the experience you had is likely to drive a new player away. At the very least, it doesn't help keep them. I'm in favor of having matchmaker allow uneven team populations (3v5, 4v6, etc.) if the MMR is unbalanced enough. Having a mid-match team shuffle wouldn't be bad - base it on a vote or something if need be.
Also, having someone become your nemesis within 2 minutes of a match happens at all level of play and depends on many circumstances. Having a lopsided lobby doesn't help at all, but it one of many causes.
It seems to me that what you mentioned will help to GET new players. But as far as KEEPING them, we need to keep the top players away from the newbies and poor players (like myself), in my opinion.
In my view it's kind of a chicken-or-the-egg problem. I believe that having a sufficient influx of new players at the same time would noticeably alleviate some of the matchmaker pains we experience, and that would at least partially address our new player retention issues.
On the other hand, I agree wholeheartedly that matchmaker needs some tweaks in how and when it actively sorts players. My concern is that retaining new players now, when our growth is so slow, doesn't seem like it should be as high of a development priority as creating new content is. In my very limited development-roadmap experience, I think that prioritizing new content to serve as the foundation for a major advertising push would be more effective at getting matchmaker to work better in a roundabout way - and use the influx of new revenue to address matchmaker ASAP afterwards.
Just my $.02. I think you have a valid perspective that's worth considering, especially since you are one of the most vocal new players we have.
Edit: I'd also like a two-tier server system where nobody above X MMR is allowed to join, and vice-versa. Something in the 1800-2000 MMR range would work.
Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 26 April 2016 - 07:38 AM.
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