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Expanded MMR range for the MatchMaker: Actual Information

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#1
Amidatelion

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I don't have it, post it here.

 

Like, for example

 

WHAT'S THE FUZZY BUNNY RANGE?!

 

Seriously, please pay more attention to basic communication. We're going to find out anyways. Either you forgot to post it, in which case oops, or this is needlessly opaque.

 

Also, I hope the next "experiment" is doing away with the matchmaker entirely.


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#2
hoghead

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tumblr_n8mmtzuLz11qc4uvwo1_500.jpg Amid, Breathe... it will be ok. :smile:


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#3
Hyginos

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But in all seriousness, it would be really nice if Reloaded would give us the actual value when they change numbers. I shouldn't have to go through the game files or load into private servers to quantify just how much "slightly" is.

 

It bothers me a bit because it seems like someone is making the conscious decision to read the numbers then extrapolate them to english for the updates. That is more work than just copying the numbers.

 

("Slightly" turned out to be 30% in the scanner/turret case by the way)


Edited by Hyginos, 03 September 2015 - 07:44 AM.

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#4
CrimsonKaim

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Amid is right. I so hate it when devs are not specific like "tweaked Hitpoints" or "increased MMR range" or "made stealth less visible" or "Increased accuracy for X".

 

Better would be:

 

Tweaked hitpoints:

 

Old: 300

New: 400

 

Increased MMR range:

 

old: 300

new: 350

 

Stealth less visible:

 

Reduced the blur effect and now displays smoke through the mech. Additionally, the borders have been smoothed.

 

Increased accuracy:

 

The KE-Sabot had a spead of approx. 10° before and this was now decreased to 8° (unscoped).


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#5
StubbornPuppet

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I support their decision to keep the range adjustments to themselves.  If they tell what the range is, people will, no matter what, claim an instant opinion about it... regardless of how it actually changed their experience.

 

Leaving it unsaid is the smart move if they want to see honest, untainted results.


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To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#6
M4st0d0n

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LOL. Keep calm and keep beta testing.


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#7
Dnyarri

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I know that as someone who has played 18 total games and is pilot level 11 I am regularly going against people in the pilot level 20-30 range, I am not exactly looking forward to what happens with it being expanded. I understand that pilot rank isn't equal to MMR/skill but these people know a lot more about the game than I do.


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#8
Hyginos

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I appears the new range is at least 550.


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#9
Draigun

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Was able to join a 1850 server. I'm at almost 2600. It might be more than 550. Possibly 750 to 800...


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#10
thirtysix

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A 2600 should NEVER be able to play on an 1850 server. There is no competition, none. The 2600 player would be unstoppable. Been there, I leave the match. Since so few people play now, there are definite cut off times, after 9pm Pacific the game (as a sub 1800 player) is beyond my slight ability.

IMHO, very strict mmr limits should be applied but on a sliding scale, the higher you go the greater the gap.

If there is the slightest perception that newbies can play and win they will stay (old vets too, I leave if I can't get a kill), but if they get stomped all the time they won't it's a FACT. Doubt it? Look at the online player numbers...


Edited by thirtysix, 03 September 2015 - 08:21 PM.

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#11
kaiserschmarrn_

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A 2600 should NEVER be able to play on an 1850 server. There is no competition, none. The 2600 player would be unstoppable. Been there, I leave the match. Since so few people play now, there are definite cut off times, after 9pm Pacific the game (as a sub 1800 player) is beyond my slight ability.

IMHO, very strict mmr limits should be applied but on a sliding scale, the higher you go the greater the gap.

If there is the slightest perception that newbies can play and win they will stay (old vets too, I leave if I can't get a kill), but if they get stomped all the time they won't it's a FACT. Doubt it? Look at the online player numbers...

nein

unlock them



#12
MomOw

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At least I don't have to wait to get into a server at 5.am UTC (and I need another coffee)


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Spoiler

#13
HepTagoN

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nein
unlock them


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#14
kaiserschmarrn_

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Teenaged TROLL. Do not attempt to feed him.

age is just a number



#15
dorobo

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They can't join any server they complain. You let them in to noob pubs they complain even more.

 

hqdefault.jpg


Edited by dorobo, 03 September 2015 - 10:20 PM.


#16
Draigun

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A 2600 should NEVER be able to play on an 1850 server. There is no competition, none. The 2600 player would be unstoppable. Been there, I leave the match. Since so few people play now, there are definite cut off times, after 9pm Pacific the game (as a sub 1800 player) is beyond my slight ability.

IMHO, very strict mmr limits should be applied but on a sliding scale, the higher you go the greater the gap.

If there is the slightest perception that newbies can play and win they will stay (old vets too, I leave if I can't get a kill), but if they get stomped all the time they won't it's a FACT. Doubt it? Look at the online player numbers...

 

The problem with that 'logic' though, is that the 1850 server was the highest rated at the time. It would have placed me in there whether or not I manually joined.

 

There is no need for the majority of unskilled players to harass and scrutinize the higher tier due to the differences surrounding ourselves. It's not that one is better than the other, but rather both have their faults. Lower tier pilots tend to die more, are easy targets, and thus leave matches more than average. Higher tier players do not have the luxury of playing a balanced match most of the time, since those who are, by definition, weaker, outweigh the size of the skilled. In the end, both don't have fun due to the conflicting skill levels.

 

Of course, with the skill ceiling being naturally quite high, there will be a varying level of MMR spread throughout. Due to the lackluster size in our population at the moment, the inevitable happens more frequently. In other words, the difference in skill level is seen more frequently on each match. It's unfortunate, but we have all been playing the game even knowing so.

 

I forgive your ignorance regarding what exactly high tier has been suffering through these past couple years, but not your arrogance to the matter at hand. That being said, what many of us have already been saying:

 

Spoiler


Edited by Draigun, 03 September 2015 - 10:24 PM.

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#17
HHJFTRU

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keep-calm-and-suck-it-up-buttercup-13.pn

 

Yeah this should be the splash screen for the game in it's current state.


Ceterum censeo ... bootcamp-servers!  &:

     #rapidMMR4newaccounts      #removethedelay

     #morespeed4EOC                 #lessspread4T-32

     #buffG2R                               #nerfZerk'n'Assault

     #dosomethingwithHF             #noisesupression4breacher

THANKS FOR THIS AWESOME GAME!

 


#18
Dawn_of_Ash

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Yeah this should be the splash screen for the game in it's current state.

 

It's also not going to help anyone.

 

But again, fine. Kill the remaining noobs in the game and promote more negative thoughts about the game from newer players. I'm fed up of telling people about how smurfs destroyed the Australian servers. I'm fed up of one-sided games that are caused by good players joining a team. And I'm fed up of new people getting wrecked on the game, getting frustrated and then leaving before telling more people to not play the game because its "P2W". And people wonder why there are so many comments about P2W on Reddit...

 

There really needs to be a hard-cap to MMR to satisfies both veterans and newer players. It still alludes me why the devs just don't put I hard cap on how long a good player can join. I don't want none of this "400 above or below" stuff, I want a "1900/2000+MMR" search option where it secludes noobs from veterens so good players do not spoil the game for newbies.

 

And if you don't like the idea of going a day or two without Hawken, or not being able to join a game 100% of the time, ironically enough:

Spoiler


Edited by Dawn_of_Ash, 04 September 2015 - 12:11 AM.

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#19
HHJFTRU

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It's also not going to help anyone.

 

Sorry, I forgot to add: :confused:

There are too many things in my life that require me to keep calm, so I'm taking a break now.  I can't agree more with you about locking the low tier away from high tier, really. And unlock the servers that are 1800 MMR and above.


Edited by HHJFTRU, 04 September 2015 - 12:45 AM.

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Ceterum censeo ... bootcamp-servers!  &:

     #rapidMMR4newaccounts      #removethedelay

     #morespeed4EOC                 #lessspread4T-32

     #buffG2R                               #nerfZerk'n'Assault

     #dosomethingwithHF             #noisesupression4breacher

THANKS FOR THIS AWESOME GAME!

 


#20
Meraple

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I'm fed up of one-sided games that are caused by good players joining a team.

Lower tier players joining a match can cause imbalance as well, especially in higher tier (pretty rare) matches.
I've no idea how they get in, though.

I suppose I'll mention I'd really like 2100+ servers to allow everyone with a higher MMR to join.
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#21
Aregon

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age is just a number

Which in most cases displays maturity in said person. There are exceptions, but there is live examples that the younger the person the higher the chance they are immature. This can explain age-locks on some clans and games.
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Spoiler

 

 


#22
HHJFTRU

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When I was a teenager, no one took me seriously. Which is a good thing, because otherwise I'd be dead. :tongue:


Ceterum censeo ... bootcamp-servers!  &:

     #rapidMMR4newaccounts      #removethedelay

     #morespeed4EOC                 #lessspread4T-32

     #buffG2R                               #nerfZerk'n'Assault

     #dosomethingwithHF             #noisesupression4breacher

THANKS FOR THIS AWESOME GAME!

 


#23
Sorroritas

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The main problem still remains low population.

You can try to turn screws and push buttons in the background but it won't make more people appear out of thin air.

 

Last night the highest eu servers I found were 1600-1800 mmr.

I'm not sure if letting 2200-2400mmr+ mmr people joining those games is a good idea, but on the other hand people with that high or even higher mmr who can't find games will just (have to) create smurfs so they can actually play causing "imbalance" aswell when the mmr range gets changed back again.

 

So you can either choose between playing imbalanced games 40-70% of the time (really depending on server population) or "noobstomping" and not playing at all. Which all are not a very attractive option.

 

*snippy*

smurfs

*snippety*

 

Smurfing is as bad for Hawken as cutting a good chunk of remaining playerbase from the game by rendering them unable to play.

 

I do hope once we get some updates the population will go up a bit.


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Treat them with honour, my Brothers.

Not because they will bring us victory this day,

but because their fate will one day be ours.


#24
hoghead

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baby.png Soooooo..................what your saying maybe the only way to increase the population of this game is to have more babies? :huh:

 


Edited by hoghead, 04 September 2015 - 04:23 AM.

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#25
Hyginos

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I think at this point rather than trying to play with the range we need to implement servers dedicated to sub lvl 10 and 2k+.

 

Hell, just designate 1-2 servers per region "pro" servers and have them MMR unlocked and only available from the server browser.

 

EDIT: we could do that ourselves if private servers were taken out of the MM.


Edited by Hyginos, 04 September 2015 - 04:50 AM.

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#26
StubbornPuppet

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Taking a closer look at that 1850 server:  that is just the AVERAGE.  Hell, for almost a year now, every 3 star server I've joined has an "average" mmr of 1950... but the actual spread is usually 1450-2550.  So, that "1850" is irrelevant.  It lets people join based on how far they are from the highest or lowest player, depending upon which end they fall themselves.

 

What I've never understood about all the exceptionally skilled players claiming that they must create smurf accounts in order to find matches is why they don't seem to realize that it is that very action that makes it even harder for them and all other high MMR players to find matches in the first place.

If you create an alt and start playing it, you have just contributed to the lack of players at the upper end to create matches with.  This leads to yet another frustrated high MMR player who decides that they are tired of waiting and does the same... and now it's even harder for the rest.  So another frustrated high MMR player...  It's a vicious cycle.  And everyone who creates an alt in the effort to find matches is actually contributing to the problem they claim to be attempting to escape.

 

To compound that problem, as they work their way back up through the MMR ranks, they lower the MMR of every player they encounter - which now means the gap between the middle and high rank players is even larger.  Now the accounts with high MMR have even fewer players they can find suitable matches with.

 

So, I just don't get how it is supposedly justifiable to create a smurf to find matches when all it does is make it even harder to find matches - and creates frustration for the lower and middle rank players along the way back up.


Edited by StubbornPuppet, 04 September 2015 - 06:27 AM.

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To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#27
The_Silencer

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Just as one complementary idea, ok?

 

would be something like... "perhaps you forgot to mention what exactly the new MMR range in numbers is? If so, then please.. "

 

I may be wrong and probably flipping too much in here though... in the pelloteish way I probably may not mean.. I mean... anyways... :turned:


.

The difference between theory and practice is smaller in theory than it is in practice.


#28
Sylhiri

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So, I just don't get how it is supposedly justifiable to create a smurf to find matches when all it does is make it even harder to find matches - and creates frustration for the lower and middle rank players along the way back up.

 

Because they just want to play, the consequences are irrelevant.

 

Edit: Somehow the quote name was hidden. I really hate the quote system on the new forums, lol.


Edited by Sylhiri, 04 September 2015 - 08:30 AM.


#29
Hyginos

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So, I just don't get how it is supposedly justifiable to create a smurf to find matches when all it does is make it even harder to find matches - and creates frustration for the lower and middle rank players along the way back up.

 

Now that the server range is much larger the need to smurf should be pretty well mitigated.

 

People will still choose to smurf for other reasons, but you won't have people starting new accounts on a regular basis because they can't physically play hawken without doing so.


MFW Howken

 

My post count is neat.


#30
_incitatus

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Soooooo..................what your saying maybe the only way to increase the population of this game is to have more babies? :huh:

 

 

 

Way ahead of you...

 

bdjx3q.jpg


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#31
Sorroritas

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To compound that problem, as they work their way back up through the MMR ranks, they lower the MMR of every player they encounter - which now means the gap between the middle and high rank players is even larger.  Now the accounts with high MMR have even fewer players they can find suitable matches with.

 

So, I just don't get how it is supposedly justifiable to create a smurf to find matches when all it does is make it even harder to find matches - and creates frustration for the lower and middle rank players along the way back up.

 

Yes I understand that and I don't like smurfs too but you have to understand their stance too.

They cannot find any games because their mmr is too high and putting up a sign saying "Sorry you are too good at the game. You aren't allowed to play" is kind of stupid.

At least now they can play (at least when the range really is 800) without resorting to smurfs. Getting stomped by higher mmr players is less hazardous to your mmr than getting stomped by a 1500 mmr smurf.

 

On that mmr draining, yes I agree.

We need more players in the higher mmr range, but other than somehow tweaking the mmr calculation I have no idea how to achieve that safe for having a larger playerbase resulting in more people getting better at a reasonable amount of time for filling the gap.

 

Regardless of what you will do you will always step on someone's feet I guess


Edited by Sorroritas, 04 September 2015 - 09:17 AM.

Treat them with honour, my Brothers.

Not because they will bring us victory this day,

but because their fate will one day be ours.


#32
StubbornPuppet

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Yes I understand that and I don't like smurfs too but you have to understand their stance too.

They cannot find any games because their mmr is too high and putting up a sign saying "Sorry you are too good at the game. You aren't allowed to play" is kind of stupid.

 

That's not what I'm saying and they should never get a message like that.  I am saying that for every high mmr player who quits playing their main and creates a smurf, that's even fewer high mmr players who can find matches.

 

The only solution that doesn't leave someone with fewer matches is a huge increase in population.

For Reloaded to be attempting to fix matchmaking problems with such a small player base is futile - because there is no good or fair solution.  It's better to build it for the population it is expected to have and work on the things that will bring more players - not microscopic little adjustments to try to keep small groups of people appeased in the short term.


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To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#33
Sylhiri

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The only solution that doesn't leave someone with fewer matches is a huge increase in population.

 

ADH already used up their "First time on Steam" token. It's easier to start off with a good population and slowly increase (even if you lose some of that population at the start) then it is to start off at the bottom. I don't see how Reloaded can boost player base to fix matchmaking without massive advertising or Hawken 2.0.

 

 

Way ahead of you...

 

 

I want that monitor.


Edited by Sylhiri, 04 September 2015 - 10:22 AM.

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#34
Sorroritas

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That's not what I'm saying and they should never get a message like that.

That was a metaphor for the matchmaker saying "Launch fail: Unable to find appropriate match" or whatever the actual message reads, I forgot. :teehee:


Treat them with honour, my Brothers.

Not because they will bring us victory this day,

but because their fate will one day be ours.


#35
hoghead

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I am clearly the most mature person on the forums

 

I am also jesus christ your lord and saviour

11676628.gif :mellow:



#36
HepTagoN

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Way ahead of you...

 

bdjx3q.jpg

 

 

She is sitting waaaaaaaaaaaay to close to that monitor. I have smaller monitor (24") and it's  2 lengths-of-longer-side-of-A4-format-paper away. I mean its even further but i never get closer than that. IMO

 

PS But yea, i want that monitor too. What model it is? Is it fine, comfortable etc?


Edited by HepTagoN, 04 September 2015 - 02:46 PM.

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#37
thirtysix

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nein

unlock them

 

Really? What do you base your opinion on?

My opinion is based on nearly 3 years of playing, additionally my current rank (among those who care to be ranked) is 793, but I'm in the top 20 players with online hours most weeks. So I see it happen daily.

I can understand top tier player frustration on not being able to find a match to play. Sorry I personally don't have an answer for that problem. But I can tell you the solution is NOT letting anyone join any match they care to, we've done that and it does NOT work and causes more problems.

Answer this question, would you keep playing a game where you can never win? or at the very least feel you made a notable contribution to your team.

I don't know anyone who likes to lose all the time.


Edited by thirtysix, 04 September 2015 - 05:14 PM.

Asus Rampage III Extreme, Core I7 950, Dual EVGA 580Ti, 16Gb G.Skill Sniper, 240Gb PNY SSD, Walmart mic :P~


#38
Call_Me_Ishmael

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I don't know anyone who likes to lose all the time.

 

 

I *hated* it. 

 

 

So I learned.  And got MUCH better.


Did I say Call Me Ishmael?

 

You should call me Luna.


#39
thirtysix

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I *hated* it. 

 

 

So I learned.  And got MUCH better.

 

Another "get gud"...

Go away, you contribute nothing.


Asus Rampage III Extreme, Core I7 950, Dual EVGA 580Ti, 16Gb G.Skill Sniper, 240Gb PNY SSD, Walmart mic :P~


#40
thirtysix

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The problem with that 'logic' though, is that the 1850 server was the highest rated at the time. It would have placed me in there whether or not I manually joined.

 

There is no need for the majority of unskilled players to harass and scrutinize the higher tier due to the differences surrounding ourselves. It's not that one is better than the other, but rather both have their faults. Lower tier pilots tend to die more, are easy targets, and thus leave matches more than average. Higher tier players do not have the luxury of playing a balanced match most of the time, since those who are, by definition, weaker, outweigh the size of the skilled. In the end, both don't have fun due to the conflicting skill levels.

 

Of course, with the skill ceiling being naturally quite high, there will be a varying level of MMR spread throughout. Due to the lackluster size in our population at the moment, the inevitable happens more frequently. In other words, the difference in skill level is seen more frequently on each match. It's unfortunate, but we have all been playing the game even knowing so.

 

I forgive your ignorance regarding what exactly high tier has been suffering through these past couple years, but not your arrogance to the matter at hand. That being said, what many of us have already been saying:

 

Spoiler

 

Ignorance, arrogance... really you needed to make this a personal attack?

 

fuzzy bunny OFF AND DIE fuzzy bunny!!!

 

How you like that??

Useless fuzzy bunny...


Edited by thirtysix, 04 September 2015 - 05:27 PM.

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