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Improving Brand-New Player mech package to reduce pay2win perceptions.

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#1
HugeGuts

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Title almost says it all. Instead of having one starter mech equipped with many internals and items, have three starter mechs - one light, one medium, and one heavy - each with one full set of items and internals tailored for one of the game's three major play styles: Offense, defense, and movement.

 

The long-term goal for this new mech package system is to have all new mechs come with one full set of items and internals, tailored for their intended play style, to completely eliminate pay2win perceptions. But I don't see this happening until we get many more items and internals. However, I think the current item and internal system is close enough to at least improve the new-player experience!

 

Here's what a new package could look like:

 

- Scout -

o Items

     - Portable Scanner Mk I

     - ISM Disruptor Mk I

     - Hologram Mk I

o Internals

     - Air Compressor

     - Evasive Device

     - Basic Fuel Converter

 

- Assault -

o Items

     - Detonator Mk I

     - HE Charge Mk I

     - Rocket Turret Mk I

o Internals

     - New 3 slot that significantly changes offense, similar to show Air Compressor significantly changes movement.

     - Fail Safe

     - Basic Heat Sinks - New 1 slot that reduces heat generation.

 

- Brawler -

o Items

     - Barrier Mk I

     - Shield Mk I

     - Machine Gun Turret Mk I

o Internals

     - New 3 slot that significantly changes defense, similar to show Air Compressor significantly changes movement.

     - Deflectors

     - Basic Extractor


Edited by HugeGuts, 31 October 2015 - 01:37 PM.


#2
JackVandal

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these would be poor choices i think, because aside from the assault these can be hard to get thrown in to, 

i recommend 

Zerker,

assault

vanguard,

 

All 3 have similar play styles to get into while introducing the player to multiple classes.

 

though i also like the idea someone proposed of changing the crt to have its secondary change, hellfires, GL, and Corsair, so as to let the new players try the alternate weapons, in addition to changing the CRT(a basically weak assault) to something unique.


Edited by JackVandal, 31 October 2015 - 01:46 PM.

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#3
kaiserschmarrn_

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these would be poor choices i think, because aside from the assault these can be hard to get thrown in to, 

i recommend 

Zerker,

assault

vanguard,

 

All 3 have similar play styles to get into while introducing the player to multiple classes.

 

though i also like the idea someone proposed of changing the crt to have its secondary change, hellfires, GL, and Corsair, so as to let the new players try the alternate weapons, in addition to changing the CRT(a basically weak assault) to something unique.

zerk is op

reaper, maybe?



#4
JackVandal

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zerk is op

reaper, maybe?

well, i offer it as an extension of the new player bad habit of spacebar warrior, thought the assault is a bit op as well, i felt giving new players the better mechs would counter their inexperience, though if its a general consensus that the zerker for new players is a bad idea, then reaper would be a good backup. though perhaps its better to counter the spacebar bad habits early instead of encouraging it. i just wouldn't offer the scout, as its to fragile i feel for players that generally don't have a good grasp of movement yet.


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#5
nepacaka

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Have a choice from three mechs...
I suggest. (like in warframe)

Bers/Salt/Vanguard

Edited by nepacaka, 31 October 2015 - 03:25 PM.

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#6
asipo

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well, my suggestion is

- assault

- vanguard

- technician


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#7
Zavier_

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zerk is op

reaper, maybe?

Depends on the player, any mech is op if you know how to play it well. The only op thing i see here is the ability of the zerker which is only for a short period.


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#8
Dawn_of_Ash

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Depends on the player, any mech is op if you know how to play it well. The only op thing i see here is the ability of the zerker which is only for a short period.

 

That short period is enough for some major damage. But personally I think that the new Gren ability is more OP than 'Zerker. My saltiness is with the Assualt which is basically look-and-gun. I wouldn't mind it if it was just OP for noobs rather than actual experienced players.



#9
JackVandal

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well, my suggestion is

- assault

- vanguard

- technician

i feel the tech would be a bad choice, as its play-style is vastly different than any other mech, being almost specifically noncombatant, iv seen new teams get wiped with a tech that's trying to battle tech and not realizing its just a dps pit that gives the other team a virtual one up advantage, i feel mechs like the pred, tech, G2R, and other high learning curve mechs should be saved till new players improve and pick them up, not starting them off with them.


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#10
Aelita

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nothings more annoying for a team then a inexperienced tech. pls reconsider. in general, 3 mechs or 3 to chose from   is a nice idea.

 

also i would suggest mechs with different playstyle. if assault isn´t your kind of playstyle, zerker won´t make you happy either.


Edited by Aelita, 01 November 2015 - 08:49 AM.

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#11
TAZ_

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nothings more annoying for a team then a inexperienced tech. pls reconsider. in general, 3 mechs or 3 to chose from is a nice idea.

also i would suggest mechs with different playstyle. if assault isn´t your kind of playstyle, zerker won´t make you happy either.


Imagine a new player who's still have no idea about positioning , doesnt have awareness to radar, try to stand up in a middle of battlefield , not moving a bit and just keep healing.
it will be the first target of enemy team.

3 mech with different playstyle :
I've suggest :
- reaper
- assault
- grenadier
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#12
(P:B)Augmentia

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I would really like it if we didn't introduce the zerker to all the newbs. I have enough problems with the beserklejerk as it is.


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#13
maxajcd

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I would really like it if we didn't introduce the zerker to all the newbs. I have enough problems with the beserklejerk as it is.

Spoiler


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#14
6ixxer

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IMO the assault is fine and no need to give away 2 mechs.

They get enough HC in the first few games, let alone the first few days to buy extra mechs.

 

I'd love them to implement a mech voucher that new players get one so they can get a mech without spending that HC.

Would be good if you could buy a mech voucher for cash and could be gifted to other players, or offered as a prize for private events.



#15
Odinous

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well, my suggestion is

- assault

- vanguard

- technician

No more technician,pls no..if every new player is gonna start with one,they will top the boards in every match,cause it isnt that hard to make points with tech.First of all they will think they are good already,but the answer will be No.Then they will climb the mmr tree and start facing tougher opponents,then the wining will start.Plz no.Tech needs a rework in my opinion,less heal,more dmg ftw.Then and maybe then i believe it can  be a newcomers choice.


Edited by Odinous, 01 November 2015 - 07:57 PM.


#16
BaronSaturday

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While that seems like a good idea, this is Reloaded we're talking about. If it's not going to make G1 money, it's not gonna happen. While player retention is important, they use the "less players paying a lot of money individually" market strategy.

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#17
(P:B)Augmentia

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We could have an instance after their 5th game where they get the change to spin a circle thing, and they get a random mech added to their garage. The only mechs excluded from this would be the G2's.


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#18
AxionOperandi

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3 mech with different playstyle :
I've suggest :
- reaper
- assault
- grenadier


Yeah, I like that list. I had always suggested Beserker as the A Class but now that its been brought up seeing a ton of noobs flying around in zerkers really makes me think its not a good idea. Scout might not be a bad one though either.

#19
GreyFa1con

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Don't start players with a bunch of Mechs.

Instead, give an ideal newbie-friendly internal/item combo for each new purchased Mech.

That way, they don't have to fiddle around learning all the tweaking Meta, and can focus on just playing.

(I'd be totally cool with more pricey Mechs for doing this. Say 15,000 HC)

_

Edited by GreyFa1con, 02 November 2015 - 01:51 PM.

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#20
AxionOperandi

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Don't start players with a bunch of Mechs.

Instead, give an ideal newbie-friendly internal/item combo for each new purchased Mech.

That way, they don't have to fiddle around learning all the tweaking Meta, and can focus on just playing.

(I'd be totally cool with more pricey Mechs for doing this. Say 15,000 HC)


I said this in a different thread (and I thought that was the idea) but I suggest a selection of 1 mech of 3 representing each class like Warframe does as suggested by Nepa. You could have a demo period where you could play each of the 3 as long as you want but you gain no XP and you can't change internals or customize until you choose which one you want to roll with. But yeah, giving players 3 mechs off the bat I do not agree with.

#21
TAZ_

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Yeah, I like that list. I had always suggested Beserker as the A Class but now that its been brought up seeing a ton of noobs flying around in zerkers really makes me think its not a good idea. Scout might not be a bad one though either.

 

Hahaha..

They'll fly, and jump into enemy line..

alone...

for 3second...

and then die...

 

Don't start players with a bunch of Mechs.

Instead, give an ideal newbie-friendly internal/item combo for each new purchased Mech.

That way, they don't have to fiddle around learning all the tweaking Meta, and can focus on just playing.

(I'd be totally cool with more pricey Mechs for doing this. Say 15,000 HC)

_

 

10,000HC + 360MC is enough for me  :whistling:



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#22
StubbornPuppet

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I have never had, from the moment I started playing in the first, early access beta, a single perception that Hawken was P2W.

 

I thought the CR-T was a perfect starter mech - charming, newbie friendly, humorous, capable and felt like a natural starting point.

 

I thought the grind was PERFECT.  Just the right amount of work vs. reward and I would finish leveling up my current mech at almost the exact time I had enough to buy and equip a new mech.  And I was just getting a good solid feel for how to be competitive in my current mech at the time it was fully leveled.

 

Bring back the CR-T as the B-Class starter.

Add two new simple looking mechs, one A-Class and one C-Class.

Provide a detailed description and videos of the skills and functions of each of those classes/mechs and let new users choose which path they will take to get started.


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#23
AxionOperandi

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I thought the CR-T was a perfect starter mech - charming, newbie friendly, humorous, capable and felt like a natural starting point.
 
Bring back the CR-T as the B-Class starter.
Add two new simple looking mechs, one A-Class and one C-Class.


Well its good that some people liked the CRT but that dosn't change the fact that it was bad overall for player perception. Making it look like they start you with a low-end crippled mech simply to create incentive to start spending money in order to be competitive in the game, hence P2W perceptions.

Personally I didn't like Fred simply because it didn't look right. Every other mech has all kinds of intricate and functional looking parts and then you have Fred which is no more than a box with legs and windshield wiper. Nothing else in the game looks like this (and frankly dosn't make any sense when you look at it from a functional point of view) so honestly if the point of Fred wasn’t to give players a crappy “looking” mech in order to get people to spend money I really don’t know what the point was.

Creating 3 new simple (crappy) looking mechs is just going back to the root problem of Fred; it looks like they are giving you crap in the hopes you start spending money, going back to the whole P2W thing again.

Edited by AxionOperandi, 03 November 2015 - 11:06 AM.


#24
Aelita

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CR-T IS perfectly fine but you know how those kids are. Its ugly (LIE), its underpowered (fuzzy bunny please) and so on.Assault 

as starter was a nice compromise, but better would be 3 to choose from. 

 

since we all are posting lists.

 

a) Reaper

 

b) CR-T

 

c) Grenadier

 

pretty much what Taz said, just changed the mighty Assault to the lovely CR-T. Or what about a slotmachine that spits out a random one...ok thats a bad idea probably

 

 

Axion said:

Creating 3 new simple (crappy) looking mechs is just going back to the root problem of Fred; it looks like they are giving you crap in the hopes you start spending money, going back to the whole P2W thing again. 

 

I don´t understand. We are talking about Mechs that are in the Game already and pls stop calling Fred crappy. It looks awesome, especially when u get the level 6 goodies. No more TV then.


Edited by Aelita, 03 November 2015 - 11:19 AM.


#25
StubbornPuppet

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...opinions...

 We all have our own opinions.  I've heard just as many people say they love the Fred chassis as say they didn't.  It's a game - and therefore should be fun - funny begins with fun.

 

So, you don't think the CR-T and 2 new basic mechs is a good idea.  OK.

 

What I still don't get is the whole new assumed paradigm in games that "If you have to actually work and fight to earn something, the game is Pay-To-Win."  What is that?  Kryst! Half of the fun of video games is from starting off with something basic but functional and working your way up to earn the fancy stuff.  This has been the norm for decades.  But now, a game is supposed to give you everything immediately or it is rigged?


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#26
GreyFa1con

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Don't start players with a bunch of Mechs.

Instead, give an ideal newbie-friendly internal/item combo for each new purchased Mech.

That way, they don't have to fiddle around learning all the tweaking Meta, and can focus on just playing.

(I'd be totally cool with more pricey Mechs for doing this. Say 15,000 HC)

_


To add to this idea.

Mechs purchased with MC should have nearly every internal and item unlocked. (I'm cool with the guns being locked though)

Since we have to remember. Buying Mechs, so far has been one of their most profitable things for people to buy.

(Just bought myself a second scout yesterday with MC, then unlocked the Flack cannon with xp transfer)

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#27
AxionOperandi

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We all have our own opinions.  I've heard just as many people say they love the Fred chassis as say they didn't.  It's a game - and therefore should be fun - funny begins with fun.


Yeah, opinions are opinions. I think Fred looks dumb but I also see why someone thinks it has some charm, I don't really that strong of feelings for it/him really. My real hangup with me not liking is that it stands in such stark contrast in design to every other mech in the game, it just dosn't look right. But enough about Fred, that isn't what this thread is about.....

Opinions aside though if new player perception is that Fred is a dumbed down weak starter mech and that you have to drop $$$ or grind FOOOORRRREEEEEVVEERRR to get something good then that is obviously bad.
 
 

What I still don't get is the whole new assumed paradigm in games that "If you have to actually work and fight to earn something, the game is Pay-To-Win."  What is that?  Kryst! Half of the fun of video games is from starting off with something basic but functional and working your way up to earn the fancy stuff.  This has been the norm for decades.  But now, a game is supposed to give you everything immediately or it is rigged?


Yeah, I don't get that one either. Plenty of games you pay $60+ for have more grind to move up the progression ladder than Hawken. Hawken's grind seems to be just about right to me or if anything slightly too easy. I think the issue is whenever there is a option to buy you way up people just a assume by default the grind is going to be huge?

#28
StubbornPuppet

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^Which brings me right back to "Hawken should be a plain, retail priced game with no paid progression."  Just make the game like $30-$40 and sell it.  Make players earn HC and rank to earn new mechs, weapons and parts and the only thing you can buy is cosmetics.

 

FACT:  Almost everyone instantly assumes that a Free-To-Play game has built in Pay-To-Win mechanics.

 

Therefore, the only way to eliminate the automatic perception of P2W is to make the game retail.

 

EDIT:  Also, make sure there is a free trial.  I often take a complete pass on buying a game because there was no way to 'test drive' it first.  If you game is solid, you shouldn't have anything to hide - and, therefore, nothing to lose by letting me have a taste first.


Edited by StubbornPuppet, 04 November 2015 - 06:59 AM.

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#29
AxionOperandi

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^Which brings me right back to "Hawken should be a plain, retail priced game with no paid progression."  Just make the game like $30-$40 and sell it.  Make players earn HC and rank to earn new mechs, weapons and parts and the only thing you can buy is cosmetics.


Ok........ a good idea perhaps but not at all likely to happen and not what this thread is about.

#30
StubbornPuppet

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^Which brings me right back to "Hawken should be a plain, retail priced game with no paid progression."  Just make the game like $30-$40 and sell it.  Make players earn HC and rank to earn new mechs, weapons and parts and the only thing you can buy is cosmetics.

 

Ok........ a good idea perhaps but not at all likely to happen and not what this thread is about.

 

Boy, you are all over my case today :P

 

But actually, "Yes, that is what this thread is about in essence - How to reduce new players perception of Pay to Win."

 

OP suggests we overhaul the mech and equipment that new players start with as their solution.  I suggest that is not the best way and give my own suggestion.

 

And 99.99% of everything we discuss on this forum is "not at all likely to happen."


Edited by StubbornPuppet, 04 November 2015 - 02:59 PM.

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#31
AxionOperandi

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And 99.99% of everything we discuss on this forum is "not at all likely to happen."


Awwwwww, shucks......, alright everyone pack it up and go home I guess.




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