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Uneven matches getting worse?

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#41
Flifang

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Nah. Peak of the day if you're all good little children and stay in a match balance does its work. Iv'e avoided commenting this for a while but almost every thread like this I see people complaining about overly one-sided matches, while when I play; I'm somehow able to have fairly balanced matches after only 2 map rotations most of the time. At the state of the game, a few significantly higher skill players per game is pretty much unavoidable (well I mean assuming us forum-goers witness it it kind of confirms it) and the only time I see a significant balance issue is when one of those players dips out because "insert whining about dallas here," or just because they choose to. Tdm is short enough you should be able to leave before they absolutely have to to avoid causing others grief by leaving mid match or right after freaking balance happens. Some things are unavoidable and even I accidentally slip up in that sense about one in every 5 times I have to leave a match. It's ridiculous when good matches do happen, where it's pretty even at the end or if it's even till the end and one team swings a 10 point lead. People only mention in the chat that it's a good match less than half of the time, which isn't to say they don't notice: but they don't say anything. God forbid a bad or uneven match happens though. I see so many people start to complain, or blame others, or blame balance on the failure.

 

Then people complain here occasionally (but not really notably often at all) about the newbies. In all my time playing hawken, I can't for the life of me remember any group of players so positive about the game, and so damn respectful of another player's skill or experience. It's honestly the most refreshing thing, and most of them aren't even that vocal in game. If we had working voip (inb4 people latch onto this specific part of my rant because VOIP) I feel like we would bring in a few more voices into a match. The most fun I have ever had in hawken was when in TS or when the voip worked. Of course there isn't much that can be done about that yet, I just think especially with how many games based on PVP these days have voice chat it might turn some people who are accustomed to being social while gaming away. The most lonely thing about this game is not the lack of players for me: it's the lack of person to person contact. This is precisely why you might see me try to insight some sort of vulgar yet good humored banter within matches. To get people fired up, and to get noticed. I don't just want their guns trained on me: I want their spite. I want them to know me in some way. I could be that trash player, or that scary turkey player. I don't care. I hate playing with the equivalent to adaptable AIs. 



#42
WmMoneyFrmMissouri

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But MMR DOES mean something right now, doesn't it? If I go 0/29 as suggested, and my MMR tanks low enough, then even these 1 Star matches will become outside of my player range, won't they?


Actually kittens the worst thing you can do for your mmr is quit matches. I've noticed lately you quit just about every match I see you in. Regardless of your reasons, that will tank you mmr worse than sticking around and taking the supposed beating you think you're going to get. Just saying, you might want to rethink that strategy.
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#43
Call_Me_Ishmael

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If you quit, do it in the first two minutes.  Otherwise, you'll be in the bottom scorers in the match, ranked anyway, and then take the MMR decrease.


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You should call me Luna.


#44
PsychedelicGrass

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Leaving guarantees mmr loss, if you care about that. It also further contributes to the balance issues you enjoy complaining about.
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#45
DieselCat

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Nah. Peak of the day 

 

 

Sorry..I lost you after this ^^^


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#46
harmless_kittens

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Actually kittens the worst thing you can do for your mmr is quit matches. I've noticed lately you quit just about every match I see you in. Regardless of your reasons, that will tank you mmr worse than sticking around and taking the supposed beating you think you're going to get. Just saying, you might want to rethink that strategy

Are you suggesting that I will lose more MMR by leaving, say, 3 minutes into a match, than if I stayed and went 1-10, or something like that, do to the smurfing and ended up at the bottom of my team's score?  Because I've tested it both ways, and it definitely seems that leaving these horribly uneven matches BEFORE getting even more slaughtered is the better option (and more fun to boot).

 

And its interesting how many people I see here that say "don't leave a match" whom I have personally witnessed leaving a match on multiple occasions.  In fact last night one of the highest ranked players in the game "readied-up" in MM, got placed on my team, and in the first 5 seconds of the match he left the match.  You can imagine how that match went.  I also see a lot of you join a match on the losing side, see that your team is down by about 20 kills, and then immediately leave.  Don't get me wrong, I do the same thing, but let's not be hypocrites please.



#47
Hyginos

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Are you suggesting that I will lose more MMR by leaving, say, 3 minutes into a match, than if I stayed and went 1-10, or something like that, do to the smurfing and ended up at the bottom of my team's score?  Because I've tested it both ways, and it definitely seems that leaving these horribly uneven matches BEFORE getting even more slaughtered is the better option (and more fun to boot).

 

And its interesting how many people I see here that say "don't leave a match" whom I have personally witnessed leaving a match on multiple occasions.  In fact last night one of the highest ranked players in the game "readied-up" in MM, got placed on my team, and in the first 5 seconds of the match he left the match.  You can imagine how that match went.  I also see a lot of you join a match on the losing side, see that your team is down by about 20 kills, and then immediately leave.  Don't get me wrong, I do the same thing, but let's not be hypocrites please.

 

My understanding is that if you are in a match for long enough to move MMR it will treat you as though you had been there start to finish. That means that if you leave early it will be the same (rank wise) as being afk and scoring zero points for the rest of the match. If you were already doing very poorly or extremely well this might not change too much at the end, but in theory you will always lose more for leaving early than sticking around and potentially scoring a few more points.


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#48
Call_Me_Ishmael

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^this

Did I say Call Me Ishmael?

 

You should call me Luna.


#49
DemitronPrime

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My understanding is that if you are in a match for long enough to move MMR it will treat you as though you had been there start to finish. That means that if you leave early it will be the same (rank wise) as being afk and scoring zero points for the rest of the match. If you were already doing very poorly or extremely well this might not change too much at the end, but in theory you will always lose more for leaving early than sticking around and potentially scoring a few more points.

yup... thats bout right imo


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#50
harmless_kittens

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I'm also curious how a person can have zero points, 0 kills, 16 deaths, 0 assists, and have their MMR go UP by about 40 points.  Happened on another account just night.



#51
Amidatelion

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I'm also curious how a person can have zero points, 0 kills, 16 deaths, 0 assists, and have their MMR go UP by about 40 points.  Happened on another account just night.

 

I'm curious how you do this, period.



#52
Hyginos

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I'm also curious how a person can have zero points, 0 kills, 16 deaths, 0 assists, and have their MMR go UP by about 40 points.  Happened on another account just night.

 

I find that hard to believe with 0 points, but with a huge difference between the player's MMR and the server MMR weird things can happen.

 

For example, when I dueled IareDave a while back (him at 2900, me at like 2300) both of out MMR's stayed almost exactly the same despite the score being like 20-0 over 2-3 rounds. Similarly, when I first started participating in organised events, My MMR would pretty much always go up even if I did poorly because I was a 1900-2000 player in a 2300+ avg server.

 

I think it is possible that a fresh account at 1250 will still gain MMR with an incredibly poor score if it gets quick-matched into a server with an average somewhere either side of 2000.


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#53
harmless_kittens

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I'm curious how you do this, period.

It was an experiment on a new account, and I thanked and apologized to both teams.  MMR went from 1333 to 1373.  No joke.



#54
Call_Me_Ishmael

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Wen I get home tonight I'll run an excel model scenario, but I think it's possible if thecserver average were sufficiently far overhead

Did I say Call Me Ishmael?

 

You should call me Luna.


#55
Amidatelion

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It was an experiment on a new account, and I thanked and apologized to both teams.  MMR went from 1333 to 1373.  No joke.

 

Yeah, what was the srd?



#56
harmless_kittens

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Yeah, what was the srd?

That's a good question.  Something between 1900 and 2000 rings a bell, but I'm not certain.  I do think that it was a 1 star match, as most of them are for this new account.



#57
angryhampster

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the person with the highest MMR, will determine the outcome of the game.  in 90% of the games.

 

that's why hawken can't be balanced, with so many variables, known and unknown that are involved.

 

add in teamwork, healing, self repair, orbs, and other healing devices, new content (the bad ones) is like adding more black pepper into a bowl of cut fruits.


Edited by angryhampster, 03 June 2016 - 11:50 AM.


#58
JackVandal

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To be fair I have also seen the reverse to be true, in cases of a player who is in first match or who has a solid 500 ping, will determine the match regardless of who gets on their team, barring the gods among us. Though in most matches I agree matches are often determined by the best player.


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#59
DallasCreeper

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the person with the highest MMR, will determine the outcome of the game.  in 90% of the games.

In the other 10%, smurfs. 


 

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