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Funny things I've heard while playing the Tech

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#41
AsianJoyKiller

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Also I'm pretty sure Tech without a tether would be next to useless in most cases. I've teched plenty of times, and with people either deciding to still run away from you while you heal them, or people jumping around the place (and until one of you proves you have telepathy I don't expect anyone to perfectly match someone else's movements), those times where you see a mech hide behind a wall healing others or surrounded by other mechs would be, I think, the only real major uses Tech will recieve.

If that were true, Nanite guns and healing grenades would have been useless in Global Agenda. The healing darts and various skillshot healing abilities in Firefall would have been useless. Aphro would be the only useful healer in SMITE. Val would unequivocally be the best medic in Evolve.

 

This idea that the healing leash is the only effective way to heal in games with shooter-styled controls is nonsense. This fallacy needs to stop being used as an argument, because it is simply not true at all.



#42
Panzermanathod

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I do not play SMITE or Global Agenda (never heard of GA, even), so I won't make any direct comments there. That being said, I think comparisons get iffy if you include other games.

 

I mean, just because Combo Breakers are in Killer Instinct doesn't mean that CB's being put in Marvel Vs Capcom 3 wouldn't outright alter how the game is to be played.

 

And if the leash is removed, Tech would have to be changed in some other area, I think. As it is now, if the only change to the Tech is removing the leash, the mech will be overall worse. Given the situations the Tech can be in, a leash does *seem* like the easiest thing.

 

Now, if it was a short ranged, high heat healing laser... I dunno. Maybe that could work?



#43
BaronSaturday

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Protip: If I can exchange the subject of your argument and have your reasons still work out logically no matter what I exchange it with, then your answers are catch-all.


So do HoTs, AoE heals, etc. There is nothing unique about a leash that automatically makes it better for the purpose of being an equal opportunity healer and damage dealer.


Exactly how so? It's curious to make a statement so conclusive when I didn't define much about the idea. There's many different ways for a healing grenade to work.

So what about the most basic aspect of a healing grenade (ie: A projectile that travels along an arc, and results in an AoE heal) makes it inherently more dangerous? Why can't the mechanics or numbers of it be tweaked so it's balanced?


That's not true.

You can botch your aim. You can mistime. You can make the grenade result in an AoE HoT that only works when not taking damage. You could have the grenade deploy a static HoT AoE that people have to stay within to receive healing. You could have a very slow projectile. You could have the heal be so small it would only be worth it if you chained several hits. You could make the AoE falloff be severe enough that it strongly encourages direct hits over ground splashes.

I could go on, but I think I've made my point. This assertion is false.


Unless you made the cooldown on the weapon longer than the HoT. Or made healing less effective the more targets you hit. Or made it so that only 1 HoT could be applied at a time.

Another false assertion, simply because you're making assumptions.


Damage reduction also keeps the battle going longer and forces substantial reactions without giving too much power. That's not unique to the healing leash. What unique trait makes the healing leash better? Why is healing in combat a better method of prolonging combat than damage reduction?

Also, what would make damage reduction useless? I'd think that if there were 100% damage reduction, it would be overpowered. So obviously, the very nature of it simply being damage reduction can't mean it would be useless. I need you to explain what trait damage reduction has that renders it "mostly useless".


The fact the you can change x for y for z doesn't make it a catch all. The predator fundamentally changes how the battlefield is appraoched. The Tech does the same. Adding another automatic hit scan weapon does not, adding another grenade does not. In turn, it is not a catch all. Yes. Many other thinvs will change how the game is played, but not everything will. In fact, most things will not. Remember that slippery sloap thing you mentioned a few topics ago?

As for everything else you mentioned, you were pretty sparse on details yourself. You gave no details about what those things would do. Just a base mechanic for those things. Don't be the pot.

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#44
LU0P10

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The question isn't whether or not the Tech is balanced.
The question is, are it's current mechanics really the best implementation for a defensive support class in Hawken?

Exactly this... why is this so hard to understand when even proposing a change to a Tech.

 

And why suggestions side of the forums often seems to be overlooked...  sigh...  



#45
Panzermanathod

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And I've generally been saying that if the main beam mechanic is altered, the Tech will be worse off unless there are additional changes made.

 

Also, thinking about it... if the Tech did have to manually aim it's beam, that would mean it's primary weapon is useless since you are aiming at your ally. Yes, there is the drain beam but sometimes a Tech has to shoot and heal.

 

I'm not saying the leash is the only effective way. Just the way that, subjectively, has the most potential general use.



#46
crockrocket

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Wait you don't pause after every kill to write #rektlolgitgudnoob ?
i thought everybody did that, even with the risk of getting blown up during it.
The more you know...


That's why taunts exist xD

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Player Retention & Howken

 

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[14:32] <Crafty> hawken is unlike anything Ive played

 

 


#47
AsianJoyKiller

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The fact the you can change x for y for z doesn't make it a catch all. The predator fundamentally changes how the battlefield is appraoched. The Tech does the same. Adding another automatic hit scan weapon does not, adding another grenade does not. In turn, it is not a catch all. Yes. Many other thinvs will change how the game is played, but not everything will. In fact, most things will not. Remember that slippery sloap thing you mentioned a few topics ago?

 

Remember what you said before?

It wasn't about "fundamentally changing the battlefield". It was simply "gives more options", "changes the dynamic", and "creates a playstyle that wouldn't exist without it". None of these (Yes, including the "creating a playstyle" bit) necessarily mean they fundamentally alter the battlefield.

 

You're moving the goalposts. Yet another fallacy.

 

As for everything else you mentioned, you were pretty sparse on details yourself. You gave no details about what those things would do. Just a base mechanic for those things. Don't be the pot.

 

Ah, I see. Ad hominem and strawman in order to avoid answering. Anyway, you weren't even able to explain the reasons why those base mechanics would be bad. You merely said things like "it would be too dangerous" or "it would be useless". Okay. Explain the technical elements of why those mechanics would be "too dangerous", "useless", etc. And then explain why tweaking the numbers couldn't be adjusted.

 

Besides, at this point I've given you several examples of alternate healing mechanics. You can't argue I've been sparse with the details after I lay them out.

Quit avoiding and just answer already. If you can.

 

 

I do not play SMITE or Global Agenda (never heard of GA, even), so I won't make any direct comments there. That being said, I think comparisons get iffy if you include other games.

 

I mean, just because Combo Breakers are in Killer Instinct doesn't mean that CB's being put in Marvel Vs Capcom 3 wouldn't outright alter how the game is to be played.

 

And if the leash is removed, Tech would have to be changed in some other area, I think. As it is now, if the only change to the Tech is removing the leash, the mech will be overall worse. Given the situations the Tech can be in, a leash does *seem* like the easiest thing.

 

Now, if it was a short ranged, high heat healing laser... I dunno. Maybe that could work?

 

Hawken is not so amazingly unique that you can't make easy comparisons of healing mechanics in other games. For example, hitscan HoTs and projectile healing AoEs were used in Global Agenda, and that's a game with more mobility than Hawken.

 

So, it's not like you can make the argument that you need the autoaim leash to keep track of friendly targets. And all the alternate methods of healing that I mentioned allow healers to both attack and heal at the same time. It just might take a bit more skill in some cases.

I'm going to tell you this. The Tech beam could not lock on at all, and you still have the truly competent Tech players able to heal and fight at the same time.



#48
BaronSaturday

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Remember what you said before?
It wasn't about "fundamentally changing the battlefield". It was simply "gives more options", "changes the dynamic", and "creates a playstyle that wouldn't exist without it". None of these (Yes, including the "creating a playstyle" bit) necessarily mean they fundamentally alter the battlefield.

You're moving the goalposts. Yet another fallacy.


Ah, I see. Ad hominem and strawman in order to avoid answering. Anyway, you weren't even able to explain the reasons why those base mechanics would be bad. You merely said things like "it would be too dangerous" or "it would be useless". Okay. Explain the technical elements of why those mechanics would be "too dangerous", "useless", etc. And then explain why tweaking the numbers couldn't be adjusted.

Besides, at this point I've given you several examples of alternate healing mechanics. You can't argue I've been sparse with the details after I lay them out.

Quit avoiding and just answer already. If you can.



Hawken is not so amazingly unique that you can't make easy comparisons of healing mechanics in other games. For example, hitscan HoTs and projectile healing AoEs were used in Global Agenda, and that's a game with more mobility than Hawken.

So, it's not like you can make the argument that you need the autoaim leash to keep track of friendly targets. And all the alternate methods of healing that I mentioned allow healers to both attack and heal at the same time. It just might take a bit more skill in some cases.

I'm going to tell you this. The Tech beam could not lock on at all, and you still have the truly competent Tech players able to heal and fight at the same time.


I'm actually done arguing with. You can't ever be wrong and that's so awesome for you. How aboutit works because it's well balancex, it isn't broken, and it can do it's job effectively? Why isn't this good enough for you? It allows for strong pushes, it keeps things fighting. It's a mech about motion and it can create a lot of it, which is interesting. It just works. That's the best I can give you.

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#49
Bad_BennyAK

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Here's a simple test:  Player A  plays tech against player B with a similar skill level, in another tech.  If A wins,  put player B in a well prepped Berserker.  If A loses,  Nuff said.   If A wins, we know Tech is no better than a Berserker.

 

if B wins the first time,  Put  player A in a Berserker.  If A wins,  Nuff Said. 

If A loses AGAIN,   then....

 

 

Player A just needs to get some skillz!


KOBALT DEFENCE REGIMENT

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...and let slip the dogs of war...

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#50
PolarBear571

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I think people don't complain about the Tech when facing it alone. It's the combo that's causing the discussions. And anything causing so many discussions can't be balanced the way it is now.

#51
AsianJoyKiller

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I'm actually done arguing with. You can't ever be wrong and that's so awesome for you.

You know what the funny part is? I haven't actually stated a position in this thread yet. You basically lost this all by yourself.

 

And you ask why it isn't good enough for me? Because it can be better.

 

With a change to the healing mechanics, the Tech could have a higher skill ceiling while remaining fairly newbie friendly. A change to the healing mechanics of the Tech could lead to deeper, more interesting plays that rely precise timing, positioning, aiming and bigger, more exciting hero moments. It's not that the leash doesn't require timing, positioning, etc., but that it requires a relatively lesser degree of them, and the mechanics don't lend themselves to exciting "clutch" plays.

 

"It just works." you say. Well, I don't want the Tech to "just" anything.



#52
BaronSaturday

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You know what the funny part is? I haven't actually stated a position in this thread yet. You basically lost this all by yourself.

And you ask why it isn't good enough for me? Because it can be better.

With a change to the healing mechanics, the Tech could have a higher skill ceiling while remaining fairly newbie friendly. A change to the healing mechanics of the Tech could lead to deeper, more interesting plays that rely precise timing, positioning, aiming and bigger, more exciting hero moments. It's not that the leash doesn't require timing, positioning, etc., but that it requires a relatively lesser degree of them, and the mechanics don't lend themselves to exciting "clutch" plays.

"It just works." you say. Well, I don't want the Tech to "just" anything.


I didn't lose anything. You vompletely derailed the topic. The point was about accountability. Why people divert their mistakes to a specific mech when the situation would have been far worse had they been fighting any other mech, to which they would have said nothing.

I don't agree that thd skill cieling is low relative to any other mech. the tether allows for survivability. You must be highly mobile, while healing a highly mobile target all while, if you're worth your salt, putting damage down range. I find myself in the air trying to do all of these things effectively.

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#53
defekt

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This idea that the healing leash is the only effective way to heal in games with shooter-styled controls is nonsense. This fallacy needs to stop being used as an argument, because it is simply not true at all.

Yup.  Apologies if this has been mentioned in the thread already but ADH all but said as much when they justified making the heal beam sticky: the Tech was intended to be 'easy mode' to allow less skilled players to punch above their weight.  (I'm not getting into how flawed the logic is there, that's just what they said at the time.)


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#54
BaronSaturday

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Yup. Apologies if this has been mentioned in the thread already but ADH all but said as much when they justified making the heal beam sticky: the Tech was intended to be 'easy mode' to allow less skilled players to punch above their weight. (I'm not getting into how flawed the logic is there, that's just what they said at the time.)


Yeah, then they nerfed it's health, speed, the rate at which it heals, and then the rate it heals when things are being hit.

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#55
defekt

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Yup.  Apologies if this has been mentioned in the thread already but ADH all but said as much when they justified making the heal beam sticky: the Tech was intended to be 'easy mode' to allow less skilled players to punch above their weight.  (I'm not getting into how flawed the logic is there, that's just what they said at the time.)

 

Yeah, then they nerfed it's health, speed, the rate at which it heals, and then the rate it heals when things are being hit.


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#56
DerMax

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Over the course of the several past days, we have empirically determined that matches without a tech on either of the teams tend to be much more fun to play.

Edited by DerMax, 10 April 2015 - 01:51 AM.

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#57
BaronSaturday

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Over the course of the several past days, we have empirically determined that matches without a tech on either of the teams tend to be much more fun to play.


I think the word you're looking for is subjectively.

Edited by SaturdayGhede, 10 April 2015 - 01:53 AM.

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#58
Meraple

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Every match with a Tech in it have been fuzzy bunned lately in EU.

Atleast the ones I've been in.

 

To be honest, there's something that bothers me more.

Which is, that a certain Tech we had was VERY bad..

..And he still got way more points than the rest of us.

 

None of those matches where both teams had a Tech did the kill count go over 30 for either team.

They turned it into campfest: deluxe edition.

 

Reduce score gained by healing allies with the Helix and I'm happy enough.


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#59
GalaxyRadio

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1. Remove self repair

2. exchanged drones with a short duration shield you can activate all 60 seconds or with other benefit (more dmg/speed etc.)

3. remove green beam, its too strong and exchanged it with making small heal orbs in front on tech

4. reduce the amount of exp a tech gets

5. please give the tech another color on the radar, for enemy AND own teammates, so my own teammates are not running away every time, and know exactly where iam for retreat and getting healed without having me in sightline

6. i want another "weapon", nothing to kill someone, more a support tool to help in some way

 

Galaxy Radio


Edited by GalaxyRadio, 10 April 2015 - 02:36 AM.

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#60
BaronSaturday

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1. Remove self repair
2. exchanged drones with a short duration shield you can activate all 60 seconds or with other benefit (more dmg/speed etc.)
3. remove green beam, its too strong and exchanged it with making small heal orbs in front on tech
4. reduce the amount of exp a tech gets
5. please give the tech another color on the radar, for enemy AND own teammates, so my own teammates are not running away every time, and know exactly where iam for retreat and getting healed without having me in sightline
6. i want another "weapon", nothing to kill someone, more a support tool to help in some way

Galaxy Radio


1. No.

2. No.

3. No.

4. Yes

5. Maybe?

6. Yes. PNG is useless compared to the Hawkins RPR

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#61
DerMax

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1. No.

2. No.

3. No.

4. Yes

5. Maybe?

6. Yes. PNG is useless compared to the Hawkins RPR

 

Compare:

 

http://hawken.heroku...r/SaturdayGhede

http://hawken.heroku...ser/GalaxyRadio

 

Galaxy mains the tech, is one of the best EU techs, but he still thinks the mech needs a change.


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#62
dorobo

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Just heard this from a gdc talk - When people tell you something is wrong with your game there is something wrong most of the time and when they tell you how to fix it they are wrong most of the time  :pirate:


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#63
BaronSaturday

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Compare:

http://hawken.heroku...r/SaturdayGhede
http://hawken.heroku...ser/GalaxyRadio

Galaxy mains the tech, is one of the best EU techs, but he still thinks the mech needs a change.


Has he raised his mmr over 200 points in the last two weeks? I've been working very hard to become competitive and it's showing. The fact that he's better than me, does not invalidate my opinion.

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#64
GalaxyRadio

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Compare:

 

http://hawken.heroku...r/SaturdayGhede

http://hawken.heroku...ser/GalaxyRadio

 

Galaxy mains the tech, is one of the best EU techs, but he still thinks the mech needs a change.

 

You give me too much credit! Most EU players above 2000mmr are as good or better as i am, "if" they would play technician :)

 

@Saturday,

 

1 week ago my mmr was over 2500+, it dropped, because i was sitting out a lot to make some games more balanced. If i would play every game with all i have my mmr would maybe even raise to 2600. But for that i need to be in good matches with top players.

 

One thing i know for sure is, i love the technician and the way supporting my team, i always love this role in every game, but as now, if the team uses the right mechs on the right maps and kow how to "use" me as a moving repair station, so sometimes A classes coming to me instead of running away from healing which takesa lot longer to do so and some C/B Classes know how to protect me from being raped by raider/scout going into 6 VS 1 just to finish me off with alphastrike (Detonator/EMP/invisible Infiltrator), turns into a hellish game for the enemy, cause they cant kill C Classes without getting me first, can't make a class to run away, because i can heal them faster as they can leave the current fight place to retreat and heal themself.

 

If i play with all i got and my team use me in a good way so i am not fighting every time in the "open" so i can use cover while i heal constantly its turning into a hard mostly unforgiving match for the enemy. And if the enemy is pushing without a technician on their side, almost killed our C Class (maybe our best dmg dealer) and i pop my green beam and a heal orb and if he has even a healorblordbuild, he is pretty muc undestructable for the enemy team, even if 3 enemy are shooting at him.

 

If two teams know their stuff, the team with technician will most likely win, if the technician is not completly useless.

 

And iam getting a lot of hate comments in most games, even when iam sitting out for better balancing...

 

Galaxy Radio


Edited by GalaxyRadio, 10 April 2015 - 04:07 AM.

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#65
Meraple

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Has he raised his mmr over 200 points in the last two weeks? I've been working very hard to become competitive and it's showing. The fact that he's better than me, does not invalidate my opinion.

Who would you ask, someone who knows little, or someone who knows alot?

The opinions of the two would most likely differ, but the one of the latter would obviously be more valued by most people.

 

This is an over-simplified and obvious example, not a literal equal to this situation.


Edited by Meraple, 10 April 2015 - 04:08 AM.


#66
BaronSaturday

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Who would you ask, someone who knows little, or someone who knows alot?
The opinions of the two would most likely differ, but the one of the latter would obviously be more valued by most people.

This is an over-simplified and obvious example, not a literal equal to this situation.


Merl is ranked number 11 in the world. He's arguably the best tech on earth. He's expressed numerous times that it needs no changes.

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#67
DerMax

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Merl is ranked number 11 in the world. He's arguably the best tech on earth. He's expressed numerous times that it needs no changes.

Off the tip of my head: TunsOfFun is better.



#68
Meraple

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Merl is ranked number 11 in the world. He's arguably the best tech on earth. He's expressed numerous times that it needs no changes.

USE players of the same skill level as EU players typically have a higher MMR, from what I know.

Back in the old forums Xacius posted something like a 100-MMR difference between the two being standard.

The 100-MMR difference may not be the same anymore, however the MMR system hasn't or has barely been changed at all since then.

Thus, I think comparing regions between eachother doesn't do much.


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#69
BaronSaturday

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You give me too much credit! Most EU players above 2000mmr are as good or better as i am, "if" they would play technician :)

@Saturday,

1 week ago my mmr was over 2500+, it dropped, because i was sitting out a lot to make some games more balanced. If i would play every game with all i have my mmr would maybe even raise to 2600. But for that i need to be in good matches with top players.

One thing i know for sure is, i love the technician and the way supporting my team, i always love this role in every game, but as now, if the team uses the right mechs on the right maps and kow how to "use" me as a moving repair station, so sometimes A classes coming to me instead of running away from healing which takesa lot longer to do so and some C/B Classes know how to protect me from being raped by raider/scout going into 6 VS 1 just to finish me off with alphastrike (Detonator/EMP/invisible Infiltrator), turns into a hellish game for the enemy, cause they cant kill C Classes without getting me first, can't make a class to run away, because i can heal them faster as they can leave the current fight place to retreat and heal themself.

If i play with all i got and my team use me in a good way so i am not fighting every time in the "open" so i can use cover while i heal constantly its turning into a hard mostly unforgiving match for the enemy. And if the enemy is pushing without a technician on their side, almost killed our C Class (maybe our best dmg dealer) and i pop my green beam and a heal orb and if he has even a healorblordbuild, he is pretty muc undestructable for the enemy team, even if 3 enemy are shooting at him.

If two teams know their stuff, the team with technician will most likely win, if the technician is not completly useless.

And iam getting a lot of hate comments in most games, even when iam sitting out for better balancing...

Galaxy Radio


I think a lot of this speaks to how unbalanced Orb lording is. The change I would make is not to allow a mech to ever heal faster than a green beam. There's a huge stacking issue, a green beam and two orbs with a basic extractor can nearly insta heal a c class.

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#70
Panzermanathod

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Hawken is not so amazingly unique that you can't make easy comparisons of healing mechanics in other games. For example, hitscan HoTs and projectile healing AoEs were used in Global Agenda, and that's a game with more mobility than Hawken.

 

So, it's not like you can make the argument that you need the autoaim leash to keep track of friendly targets. And all the alternate methods of healing that I mentioned allow healers to both attack and heal at the same time. It just might take a bit more skill in some cases.

I'm going to tell you this. The Tech beam could not lock on at all, and you still have the truly competent Tech players able to heal and fight at the same time.

I'm not saying Hawken is very unique. I'm saying bringing in mechanics from another game in the same genre as an example can get iffy because mechanics are different. Both games I mentioned before were fighting games, and as I said, just because one game had one thing doesn't necessarily mean it'll easily fit into the other.

 

Here's a closer example: Resident Evil and Silent Hill (as far as the older games are concerned). In SH, you can move and shoot. In RE, you cannot. But RE's level design favors more cramped areas than SH. Moving and shooting in the old RE games would effectively require a change in how the levels and enemies are made.

 

I am not invalidating your point. I am only saying mechanics in one game may not work as well in another for any reason (may make the game too easy/hard, outright change the way a fight happens, etc.)

 

As for your suggestions...

 

"And what about these sorts of things makes them the best option possible? Why is a healing leash better than a hitscan HoT? Why is it better than a healing grenade launcher? Why is healing as a weapon ability better than something like a damage reduction beam? Why is an ability that just makes you heal faster better than a group burst heal or something else?"

 

As mentioned before, Tech was made to be easy to use (and also very fragile). If the beam was hitscan you would have a harder time attacking enemies while healing. I don't know about anyone else, but when I do tech I more often than not will also fight. Camping/protected by others, there's little problem. But if you're trying to attack an enemy as well as heal an ally who is dodging, trying to do both means you are actively switching targets between friend and foe. Being a tech, at this point why bother attacking? You'll try to heal an ally who is bouncing around the place and not quite knowing where he would go and making it less capable at healing.

 

If Tech had a healing grenade, it would not be anything but a low ROF weapon. I don't think it would work on the Tech in it's current state and would make the tech more camp-based. Instead of constantly healing one mech at a time just form a somewhat tight squad and have all of them get healed. And the amount it would heal with probably either be too much or too little in people's eyes , I think.

 

I think a damage reduction beam might not be a good idea in most cases. It'll exchange it's own set of issues for another. You'll have people saying Tech and Turret Mode is OP, the Tech would need more health to counter the inability to heal itself. Techs would be rather pointless for A class mechs which are more mobile but less health.

 

Group burst heal would have a couple of the same points I made for healing grenades. It'll also make the Tech too good at solo play if it also heals itself.

 

Again, some of these might be viable on Tech, but you'd have to really change it. And at that point you might as well just make another mech. and replace the Tech.



#71
EM1O

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a. Remove Tech

or

b. Remove all other healing methods/repair orbs and "lost soul" orbs.

 

Either one, without changing any other game or mech mechanics, would be sufficient to solve most complaints, without infuriating the Tech-opposition camp.


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#72
_incitatus

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If two teams know their stuff, the team with technician will most likely win, if the technician is not completly useless.

 

 

Disagree.  I think it kind of depends on the game mode.  Having extra firepower does have its advantages over running a Tech.  When you have two equally matched teams with good mech composition, I'd say it's a toss up.  In pubs, I see the team with the Tech lose a lot more often than the team with extra guns.

 

Tech is fine, just reduce it's XP to bring it in line with all the other mechs...



#73
LadyTiggs

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Reminder: Stay on topic, and stop bickering (you know who you are). 


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#74
Scow2

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If I were to speak my mind about the tech
I think of him as like a flee stuck to the side of a bear.
You don't see him when you are getting attacked by the bear.
You only see the Bear.

That's a problem with your perception, not the tech. it's not a flea stuck to a bear - it's a Russian Bear Cavalry Rider atop the bear. The tech is just as much a player and mech as the incinerator/grenadier/brawler
 
 
 

The issue is that a competent mech tech will NEVER BE ALONE.


A competent pilot of ANY mech will never be alone

But he's behind everyone! I'm just a raider! I can't dive into 6 others to ninja strike that tech.

You can if you have 5 other mechs drawing their fire and keeping the deathball suppressed. If you don't have 5 other mechs, it's your fault for trying to defeat a superior force.

Thing with the Tech is, it negates the burst, harras, damage you deal on medium-long distances.
 
Whe nI engage a 2v1 in a Brawler for example against two A - classes, I expect to win ebcause I have way more health, a tremendous dmg output plus a really good burst (assumign you are usign the Flak cannon). 
 
The strategy is to burst down one A-Class fast so I don't get so much damage fro mthe first one so I remain with only 100 HP damage to 1v1 the other one. The Tech disables that by this jesus revive beam.

No it doesn't. The tech is an A-class mech. It can't heal a mech that's been burst to nothing. And, it can't heal itself after being similarly burst down to nothing. And, if you expect to beat two A-class mechs in a brawler you're not facing competently-driven A-class mechs. Even one berzerker or scout dancing around is an even match for a Brawler or Vanguard. Two is suicide.

A 1-hit kill weapon with an AoE that covers the entire map also gives options, changes dynamics and creates a play style that, while not necessary, wouldn't exist without it. Doesn't mean it's good.

Counterpoint: "Nuke Deployed". However... there are a few things that made the Nuke a more viable weapon in BattleTanx than it would be in Hawken:
1. It was a map pickup, not something built into any mechs. It was rare, and rewarded level layout knowledge and speed - and any player could get it. Controlling the map was a skill. The gang that got the Nuke as its item only had a chance of having it per life - most of the time, they were fighting at a disadvantage compared to the other gangs.
2. It gave LOTS of forewarning - Boldly announced, then air-raid sirens wailed for a few seconds before detonation, at which point the ground darkened and sky turned yellow, followed by the shockwave. Plenty of time to evade the blast (Either using a Teleporter, or ducking into a tunnel)
3. Friendly Fire isn't. In team games, you could end up having a nuke break even on the scoreboard. Losing all your accumulated items could hurt if others manage to dodge the blast and you couldn't.

However - none of those options are available in Hawken.

a. Remove Tech
or
b. Remove all other healing methods/repair orbs and "lost soul" orbs.
 
Either one, without changing any other game or mech mechanics, would be sufficient to solve most complaints, without infuriating the Tech-opposition camp.

No it wouldn't. Removing the tech would infuriate the pro-tech group, and those who've spent money and skill mastering the mech.

And...

Removing all other healing from the game would completely ruin the game by making the Tech mandatory. As it is, the other healing options in game makes a Tech a nice option to have in a battle, but by no means mandatory. By removing all other healing, the tech becomes an absolutely mandatory mech, at which point the developers need to remove all but five other mechs (Since the game is only 6 vs 6), and make each of those remaining mechs mandatory for their team as well.

Edited by Scow2, 10 April 2015 - 06:52 AM.


#75
CrimsonKaim

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Freeze, can you teach this guy how to play Tech?


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