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Would the old EMP be better for comp games than the current one?

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#1
Elite_is_salty

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So, I'd like to know if you think the old type of EMP (activate on -any- object hit, much lower radius than the old one...) be better for competitive games.

 

It has a much smaller radius and can't be bounces off walls, so it won't be that major suppression weapon that -when used well- is the ultimate game-changer, but it will still have important offensive and especially defensive powerness.

 

I certainly would take the old on over the current, but I'm sure a lot of others think otherwise.

 

 

Whatchu think about this?


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#2
Silverfire

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Old one was too easy to use, duration, depending on which version of the old EMP you are referring to, was too long. It was basically a non remote detonate Detonator that disabled weapons for x amount of seconds. I don't precisely remember the radius, but I feel like it was similar if not larger. Could be wrong about that though. Didn't have recording capability back then.

The change makes it a little harder to use because of weird geometry bouncing, plus a little more utility, like its slight arcing, bounce off walls, and a little easier to avoid because there's a little bit of warning instead of a giant green blob moving towards you.

If we're worried about EMP radius, why not just address that instead of changing EMP mechanics again?

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#3
Pure_Amazing

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Speaking of EMP radius' of the past, anyone remember the OP one from back in the day, you know the one that was larger then the animation size?? Hot dam those were nasty days.

 

As for the suggestion at hand, I kinda like what we have now, I'm sure people will say it needs tweaking which is fine everything needs tweak every now and then. I find it slightly more challenging to use yet still perfectly usable (When compared to previous versions) which is how a weapon like that should be I think.


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#4
CrimsonKaim

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I think if you add a manual detonation and reduce the radius of the current EMP, it would be even better than both.

 

As silverfire said, the old one was too easy to use and the reward was too high for that. This applies for many weapons and mechs atm too.

 

 

However, the EMP now is not really an "EMP" more like an "Anti-shield-countermeasure". I rarely use EMP for actually EMPing someone, more to disable shields or to wish myself good luck to hit more than one player when throwing it into a team of 5 or more.

 

 

EDIT: 

 

And ofcourse, we all know that one already, but still:

 

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Edited by FakeName, 25 June 2015 - 05:15 AM.

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#5
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#6
Elite_is_salty

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The old EMP version had less than half of the current one.

 

@fake if you one day get to play comp MA or SG you'll see that they are much much much much more than a shield countermeasure.


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#7
The_Silencer

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being straight here..

 

how long is the EMP effect for the mk-I version right now ?

 

1 or 1.5 second? I remember when it was 3 or more secs.. that was a pain in the ass(istance)..


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#8
Amidatelion

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No, I think people need to put time into learning to aim and time them. Turd pointed out that TANG was much, much better at using them appropriately than we were.



#9
The_Silencer

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Well..

nevertheless, I honestly believe in that no item, i repeat, no item should leave you in underwear on the battlefield to the extent of granting your inevitable death because of having an opponent pilot using one item against you. Mostly referring to A and also to B mech classes here.

 

That why I asked for..


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#10
Amidatelion

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being straight here..

 

how long is the EMP effect for the mk-I version right now ?

 

1 or 1.5 second? I remember when it was 3 or more secs.. that was a pain in the ass(istance)..

 

...it's 4.25 seconds.

 

Well..

nevertheless, I honestly believe in that no item, i repeat, no item should leave you in underwear on the battlefield to the extent of granting your inevitable death because of having an opponent pilot using one item against you. Mostly referring to A and also to B mech classes here.

 

That why I asked for..

 

It's not an auto-kill. Learn to break turn caps, reposition, and corner play your way out of situations.



#11
The_Silencer

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...it's 4.25 seconds.

 

 

It's not an auto-kill. Learn to break turn caps, reposition, and corner play your way out of situations.

Did you know that I joined in the HWK community 1 day after Ashfire?

 

I've to admit that it's been a long haul here at my end, hence my partial and pretty well justified ammnesia on some details of the game right now. I'm consuming coherent doses of phosphorus and revising my notes to counter the effects though..

 

Anyway, besides the evasive maneuvers you're referring to against a 3 secs long EMP impact... and having into account that you've not many more options to strike back or better said to survive... I'll remind you that you'll have no weapons nor items at hand as response of such an attack (or firepower denial if you want...).

 

Also,

anyone remembers of those chained and well coordinated EMP situation on the battle field in the past?

 

That was pretty nasty nasty... IIRC..


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#12
JackVandal

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lately in pubs iv seen some pretty nasty emp chains coupled with scanners, its brutal.


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#13
The_Silencer

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...it's 4.25 seconds.

 

 

It's not an auto-kill. Learn to break turn caps, reposition, and corner play your way out of situations.

Wait a minute..... 4.25 seconds you said, an EMP mk-I, full impact?

 

You must be playing me, dude... Really?


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#14
KirkGoneWild

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IMO I think the way we have it now is fine.

 

The current EMP allows the enemy to get away once they hear or even see the EMP come their general direction. Since it only detonates after a period of time or if hits you directly.

 

If we use the old EMP,  I don't think it would allow the enemy to have the chance to react if they are holding/camping a position either on MA or Siege. I'd like to agree with Amid that our EMP placement is fairly strong, since I and others on my team like to use it to set up our plays or push the enemy back from camping a position. The old EMP I believe would actually be too OP in the right hands because of the instant impact detonation. I think I would have a field day with it, so I should actually be saying yes I want this! But I still don't think the old EMP would make it a level playing field.

 

Also, lets say IF you accidentally throw the current EMP around your team or completely miss and it comes back to you. I'll admit I have done this and have had the time to scream to my team like a littler girl to "RUN". You can then imagine how things may turn out against a strong team or strong individual when that happens. 

 

But in TDM, my opinion may change since the game play is different. 


Edited by KirkGoneWild, 25 June 2015 - 09:06 AM.

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#15
Nept

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I think if you add a manual detonation

 

No.


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#16
Flifang

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The old Emp reminds me of when the Iron Giant get's  mad near the end of the movie. Green splosions!



#17
comic_sans

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I like the beeping dreidel purely as a source of fear.  You know how sometimes if you're fighting a 1v1 around a pillar, you can shoot your burst primary at one side and a secondary shot on the other to mess with your opponent, but at best you hit once?  With an emp you can just bonk it on one side and rush the other or wait for them to pop out of the unaffected side.

 

EDIT: also if you're running from someone, turn 90deg to face a wall, launch the emp, dodge, and reorient yourself to be boosting away again.  If you were at the right range and you didn't eat your own EMP, you'll at least seriously discourage them from chasing you on that path without really losing any momentum at all yourself.  This is really easy to work into your playstyle if you are a smart player and you do the boost+dodge chains to save fuel and move quickly.  It also helps to have more than one EMP since this is a little frivolous.


Edited by cosmic_spand, 25 June 2015 - 09:54 AM.

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#18
StubbornPuppet

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...it's 4.25 seconds.

 

 

It's not an auto-kill. Learn to break turn caps, reposition, and corner play your way out of situatio

 

Wait a minute.  What do you mean by "Break turn caps"?


To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#19
Kopra

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Wait a minute.  What do you mean by "Break turn caps"?

Being EMP'd means you can still move. Because mechs can only turn so fast, boosting around an enemy mech in a way that makes it harder for the opponent to keep the bead on you (eg. breaking the turn cap) can help diminish the effects of the EMP. Easier to do on A-classes (smaller hitbox, quicker dodge, faster boost speeds), but also doable on B-classes.


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#20
CraftyDus

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Wait a minute.  What do you mean by "Break turn caps"?

 

do you even aimbot, bro

 

he means play it in their peripherals, dodge/boost beyond your opponents ability to keep a bead on you, cuz hawken


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#21
CraftyDus

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Being EMP'd means you can still move. Because mechs can only turn so fast, boosting around an enemy mech in a way that makes it harder for the opponent to keep the bead on you (eg. breaking the turn cap) can help diminish the effects of the EMP. Easier to do on A-classes (smaller hitbox, quicker dodge, faster boost speeds), but also doable on B-classes.

 

sniped me nicely


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#22
nepacaka

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Whatchu think about this?

 

no. new version is better.

 

more suitable design for ascension.

 

less stupid EMP'd in cqc.

i use it on rocketeer in siege, just throw it in 5 people, or in tech/inci combo.

 

and i actually being EMP'd in very rare case, so i just almost forgot how it worked :D

mostly it happen if enemy (99% it will be a ololo-raider) throw it in my face and we both disabled on 3-4 sec, and runaway with panic.


Edited by nepacaka, 25 June 2015 - 11:25 AM.

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#23
LoC_TR

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I love the top, it's so much more interesting than an orb that just flies across the map in a straight line, it's an intriguing skillshot mechanic that I enjoy using is in unusual ways. Stop hatin on my E-M-P!


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#24
thirtysix

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What about a double tap activation instead?


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#25
LoC_TR

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What about a double tap activation instead?

Any sort of detonation on the emp would reduce the difficulty of use, say for example you are just using the emp to crowd control or the denial of an area, it would be much easier to accomplish. The difficulty of the emp is throwing it at the right time and at the right spot, if you can delay that on an activation then it will naturally be a much easier item to wield because you aren't necessarily punished as much for throwing it poorly.


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#26
Nept

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Remote detonation is for scrubs.  Although I realize that it's never going to happen, I would love to see Hawken redesigned around remote detonation's absence.  The skill ceiling would skyrocket from its current position.


Edited by Nept, 25 June 2015 - 12:07 PM.

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#27
(KDR) SethUK

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The only change I think should be made to EMP is that when it contacts shield it should only destroy the shield and not shut down the weapons of the mech inside of it.


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#28
Kopra

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The only change I think should be made to EMP is that when it contacts shield it should only destroy the shield and not shut down the weapons of the mech inside of it.

Well, there's already something you can do about it most of the time at least.

 

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#29
thirtysix

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Any sort of detonation on the emp would reduce the difficulty of use, say for example you are just using the emp to crowd control or the denial of an area, it would be much easier to accomplish. The difficulty of the emp is throwing it at the right time and at the right spot, if you can delay that on an activation then it will naturally be a much easier item to wield because you aren't necessarily punished as much for throwing it poorly.

 

guess I could have been more clear... meant in ADDITION to the bounce activation, like the TOW.

more difficulty is NOT what we need


Edited by thirtysix, 25 June 2015 - 02:53 PM.

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#30
peacecraftSLD

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I like to use the EMP when I am being chased. I have boosted straight to a wall, cause you know they are OP in this game, and will bounce the EMP on the ground near it or against it to reduce the rest of the bounces. By the time the enemy catches up, there is a chance they will be hit by the EMP.

 

I find it fun to trick shot my EMPs. Makes the fight more enjoyable for me.



#31
LoC_TR

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guess I could have been more clear... meant in ADDITION to the bounce activation, like the TOW.

more difficulty is NOT what we need

I know, this is exactly what nept is talking about... the ability to detonate the tow mid air is easy, much easier than a KLA which does not have that option. We don't want the game to get easier either haha. With a TOW you can make a poor shot in their general direction and with decent timing can still get dmg on your opponent with air burst. TOW has a distinct advantage over its counterparts because of it's speed, accuracy, spam ability, and air burst. No other secondary encompasses all of these traits so well. Even the GL is a smidge worse because of its air speed and RoF. 


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#32
The_Silencer

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2 ideas made by you guys that I'd like to highlight in here:

 

1. Detonating an EMP in mid-air sounds like pretty interesting to me.. would make gameplay more interesting imo. Although if the EMP collides with some other mech, map geometry, props, etc. then it should "detonate". Ergo no bouncing property for EMPs because that little line of code could probably make 'em too OP, IMHO. It's actual AoE is fine, IMO.

 

2. An EMP deactivating an E-shield without affecting mechs within its umbrella sounds like pretty coherent improvement to me. Just to highlight that every blockade or shield (no matter how many) within the EMP's AoE should be canceled or deactivated.

 

/*

IMO, balanced EMPs (with coherently short effect duration and area of effect),

plus a bit more sophisticated (like by adding mid-air detonation) and even adding some of distinctiveness factor to the various MK version (the more slots you invest in EMP tech the slightly better your EMPs are)..

these would be a nice touch as a whole, IMO. */

 

Also, considering EMPs with longer duration, enough duration to have you critically damaged if your opponent is good, then

the possibility of allowing the deployment of, at least, defensive items after, let's say, half the effect* of the EMP would not be a terrible idea either.

For example allowing blockades, shields, disruptors... that reduce the underwear impact the average pilot may feel after being hit by an EMP. --> The fact is that I find the faster mechs in the game to be quite dangerous after EMPing you (Scouts, Raiders..).

 

That worths its evaluation too, imo.. probably even to be well put into some test build soon. =)

 

 

---

.. As one pseudo-related Note:

 

Big NO to any hypothetical future item nor weapon to decrease the maneuverability of the mechs in the game.


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#33
Flifang

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If a remote detonation for EMP is added, the duration needs to be greatly reduced. It could make sense if you figure the beeping of the EMP is it charging up for the blast. I'll tell you though, what I would want is either an initial velocity increase, and/or the ability to bounce more without losing all of its momentum. But that's just because I like causing chaos and being able to turn the AA into a glorified bay-blade arena would bring me bourse of fun

#34
WillyW

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I personally think the new EMP is awesome. I use the Infiltrator, so I'm used to dealing with calculating arcs and bounces with grenades. I would definitely agree that manual detonation would improve the weapon. I ALWAYS use shields as traps for EMPs though. You could say I abuse it. But if it was changed to only deactivating the shield, without affecting the mechs inside, I could live with that.


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