I don't think that forum posts about potential hackers should be removed. Carefully watched (by reloaded), yes. Many members of the community are experienced at spotting hacks (not necessarily just high mmr players mind you), and they can provide a valuable assessment about whether or not the footage is "clean", "dubious", or "definite" (I forget who I'm quoting there). Should any community members have the power to act on such? No, and I don't care what demographic you're pulling from. Whether or not to take action against a player is reloaded and reloaded alone's decision. That being said they should actually do something when it comes to obviously recognizable hackers about which multiple support tickets have been filed (with evidence of course).
Question to the devs: Do you trust the community and believe their reports?
#41
Posted 16 June 2015 - 06:50 PM

Salvage: An Idea to Stop Leavers
#42
Posted 16 June 2015 - 07:51 PM
Ugh. I'm bad at spotting aimbots but that was so blatant. I agree the RELOADED needs to take action, however I disagree on principal with giving community members power in this situation. I understand that high mmr players understand what is going on, but reloaded needs to step up and handle this, not the players. Our duty should end once we have given reloaded evidence. Again, that's assuming they take action.
I'm just stepping in here for a moment, but while in principle this is correct, this is a game I've sunk a lot of hours into, and so have many other people. I've put time and effort into helping the game stay on its feet, and I'd be willing to put more in if it meant saving the company currently responsible for the life support Hawken is on some of their time and money.
Not every game company can afford to prioritize these things with their own employees.
- -Tj- and JeffMagnum like this
#43
Posted 16 June 2015 - 08:22 PM
I play with cheaters in hawken pubs
every
damn
day
....it's pretty good practice.
We have been accumulating evidence on pub cheaters and may actually post a running list of indisputable cheaters at TPG if no action is taken by the company.
If you have a video demo of some obvious cheating, we invite you to contribute to it by hitting our support ticket button with a link.
Also if anyone, ANYONE can help in an anti cheat capacity/has some experience or aptitude for it SUBMIT AN APPLICATION we'd like to add some ac admins.
- Nept and Hek_naw like this
EOC Raider, Bolt Pred, Rev Gl Gren, EOC Infil, All the Reapers, Father, Expert in Guitar Kung Fu, and Founder of TPG Hawken
#44
Posted 16 June 2015 - 08:42 PM
Edited by WmMoneyFrmMissouri, 16 June 2015 - 08:42 PM.
#45
Posted 16 June 2015 - 09:40 PM
I'm not in the 2500+ MMR range, but I knew something was up with that player in hestoned's video after the first few shots hit me. After you play for a while, you get an instinct for how the game should feel, and sure enough, it wasn't right. Not even shots from the top 10 feel like those from an aimbot.
#46
Posted 17 June 2015 - 01:55 AM
That you can't recognize it is simply a matter of experience and perceptive abilities. No one should fault you for genuinely not being able to understand what it is, you're probably unfamiliar with what cheating looks like mostly because you do not cheat. Nothing wrong with that.
That you'd argue that the import and impact of a cheater on a public game server, and make the excuse that it's not significant or especially onerous if they aren't very effective with a high kdr against other skilled playes who aren't using cheating software is what I would take issue with when considering whether or not the Hawken community should disregard your opinion on the matter.
- -Tj- likes this
EOC Raider, Bolt Pred, Rev Gl Gren, EOC Infil, All the Reapers, Father, Expert in Guitar Kung Fu, and Founder of TPG Hawken
#47
Posted 17 June 2015 - 02:41 AM
We don't need High MMR Player to see videofootage and to decide if someone is a hacker or not, because the failurerate would be too high and even High MMR Player are hacking this game, so no, i don't trust anybody, not even High MMR Player because some god there only with hacks or to be even more stunning.
What we need is really really simple task
1. Spectator Mode, so we can directly see what this person is doing -> aimbot will be tracked easy this way because of same beviour aimingmovement
2. in Spectator Mode you need to see the whole time where the enemy exactly is, so we can decide much easier if the hacker CAN actually see the enemy movement through walls (Preaimed tows, looking directly to enemy through walls, walking in their direction every time no enemy can be seen or marked from teammates). You can only assume where they could be as potential spawningpoints, but thats it
3. Mouse/Keyboardoverlay what buttons they are using, this is very important to see all possible keys they are using, because if someone is using aimbot or configuring hacks, they would use another keys for that purpose, so this is a very good and important indicator for that
4. turncaprate, we need a indicator if a player is "overturning" because of aimbot, a simple green for everything is ok and red if he did something impossible
5. another good indicator would be a green walking/boostingspeed info and red, if he cross the line (internals effects included), so if he/she is a speed hacker, we could see that with thoise indicators
If we had something like that and iam very sure the new devs are capeable of programming such things, we players could easy doing there jobs to track down some hackers with proof ourself. Maybe they can install that system to automatically detect hackers, i don't know. So at lease players using aimbots (breaking turncaprate or perfect tracking while shooting to exactly 1 point) or speed hacks (walking/booster faster then its possible) could be spo really easy this way automatically. But there is also wallhack that can't be detected i think, so this is where we players have to do some work too if we want a clean game.
And yes, blocking IP Adresse for people known as hackers, so they can't just make a new account.
Galaxy Radio
- PoopSlinger, Hek_naw and HepTagoN like this
#48
Posted 17 June 2015 - 03:29 AM
Jeff, this is like the 3rd or 4th time you've posted that reference complaining about that guy. Can I ask how much harm a 2166 MMR player, with a 1.6 K/D ratio is causing? I mean really look at the guys stats, nothing stands out screaming that something is majorly wrong here. I watched the video a number of times and I didn't see a single snap that ended up perfectly lined up on someone. I placed my mouse cursor where Hestoneds reticle centered at the start of the video, and then every weird movement after that, was not on target. To me, I need better data, perhaps actual spectator video of this guy directly, instead of relying on kill cam through Hestoneds connection. What if those jumps were caused by dropped packets between this guy and the server and then Hestoned? I'm not saying something isn't wrong, it just doesn't seem very conclusive as you lead it to be, to me. I've seen video of far worse snaps over 90 degrees, and when I look up those players data, it normally has a much larger K/D ratio and much better MVP to wins ratio than this guys terribly average performance.
I'm sure I'm going to get a shitload of flak for saying what I did, but seriously, I've wanted to say it for about 3 or 4 posts and I keep deleting it cause I know I'm going to be ridiculed. My intentions are not to stick up for this guy, I have no idea who he is, and since he's only ever played 17 matches of siege, I've never run into him, I'm just explaining what I see and don't see, and how I don't see it as all that obvious. By all means if you see something I don't please explain.
Can't wait for the bashings to start.
The stats like MMR and KDR won't tell you much about this player because of a number of things:
First, the 2166 MMR is indicative of a player who maintains a high average score over a period of time. I don't know the specifics, but that's how I know it to work. This can also be easily manipulated by playing badly or playing as a Tech constantly and such (so I've heard anyway... I don't play Tech often so I can't confirm this personally). The 1.6 KDR tells you nothing, really. All that means is this player is able to kill more than they die on average.
I've played against this player on many, many occasions now, and their situational awareness and tactical positioning are atrocious. Think "hardly dodging, firing constantly out in the open, walking right into tough-to-win situations, flying in straight lines and not air dodging or anything." A player in the 2100+ MMR range typically doesn't do these kinds of things. Their KDR is 1.6 because they aren't good at anything but shooting. I'm assuming you're looking at their stats at hawken.herokuapp.com? Note the number of kills on their SS and Reaper and KDR on those mechs vs all the others. Someone who actually plays decently would have much better numbers than that across their mechs more evenly, not heavily weighted to sniper mechs.
The snaps in hestoned's short video is extremely obvious. Mechs can't turn that fast without cheats. All of the shots in that video are perfectly lined up. You might not be able to tell some of them are because their aim is locked to mechs that are behind walls. The jumps in that video are not caused by a shaky connection, those are actual target snaps. True, the video isn't exactly conclusive proof, but it's suspicious enough to warrant an investigation.
That video was posted at the end of last month. Since then, said player has 'wised up' and put in a short, but still too-short turn cap on their aimbot, so it doesn't snap the way it does in that video. I know this because I've recorded this player on multiple occasions, including the first time I experienced their cheating and have reviewed the video evidence.
Anyway, it's not exactly bad that you question whether said player is cheating or not. That's exactly what needs to be considered when someone is accused of cheating. The evidence needs to be scrutinized in a fair manner. In this case, after having seen this player in action, the evidence I've seen is damning.
- PoopSlinger, ThirdEyE, JeffMagnum and 3 others like this
#49
Posted 17 June 2015 - 03:38 AM
And yes, blocking IP Adresse for people known as hackers, so they can't just make a new account.
IP blocking is bad for a number of reasons, GR.
What we need is really really simple task
1. Spectator Mode, so we can directly see what this person is doing -> aimbot will be tracked easy this way because of same beviour aimingmovement
2. in Spectator Mode you need to see the whole time where the enemy exactly is, so we can decide much easier if the hacker CAN actually see the enemy movement through walls (Preaimed tows, looking directly to enemy through walls, walking in their direction every time no enemy can be seen or marked from teammates). You can only assume where they could be as potential spawningpoints, but thats it
3. Mouse/Keyboardoverlay what buttons they are using, this is very important to see all possible keys they are using, because if someone is using aimbot or configuring hacks, they would use another keys for that purpose, so this is a very good and important indicator for that
4. turncaprate, we need a indicator if a player is "overturning" because of aimbot, a simple green for everything is ok and red if he did something impossible
5. another good indicator would be a green walking/boostingspeed info and red, if he cross the line (internals effects included), so if he/she is a speed hacker, we could see that with thoise indicators
If we had something like that and iam very sure the new devs are capeable of programming such things,
Given a few seconds thought - would the same network inconsistencies which lead to rubberbanding and multi-tick compression not make what you're proposing unreliable?
I'm not saying it wouldn't be useful at all.
Did I say Call Me Ishmael?
You should call me Luna.
#50
Posted 17 June 2015 - 04:03 AM
Anyway, it's not exactly bad that you question whether said player is cheating or not. That's exactly what needs to be considered when someone is accused of cheating. The evidence needs to be scrutinized in a fair manner.
It is by no means cause for ridicule that ss396 would consider that the subject was assisted by luck, circumstance, or appeared unusual due to connection issues; or that this short clip would be all that was required for indisputable evidence (at least at the competitive level).
What he doesn't know is that the subject is something of a celebrity, as many of our cheaters have become who continue to use cheats in public servers with impunity; has been recorded by dozens of players and directly observed cheating by scores more of our community. Certainly to the degree that there is enough timed evidence to issue an indisputable ban for cheating in any competitive league in existence.
That being said, the topic of the thread is directed at Reloaded.
Players who have reported these persons with footage are understandably puzzled when they continue to rub elbows in the public servers with cheaters.
They would just like to know if they feel there are instances of actionable contention in regards to evidence submitted, or conversely if there are other, more important issues pressing them in their endeavor to make Hawken a sustainable enterprise.
It wouldn't hurt my feelings to see the back of cheaters as they become known.
I would be delighted to entertain gif threads seeing them off to make a new free account for their actions.
Particularly in cases of people like the subject of Hestone's clip, who have bought skins and attempted to pass as skilled players over time.

Edited by Crafty, 17 June 2015 - 04:03 AM.
- JeffMagnum and comic_sans like this
EOC Raider, Bolt Pred, Rev Gl Gren, EOC Infil, All the Reapers, Father, Expert in Guitar Kung Fu, and Founder of TPG Hawken
#51
Posted 17 June 2015 - 05:18 AM
Given the fact that the playerbase is limited, and the cheat accusation support tickets sent per week can surpass 5-7, I don't think it would be a tedious task for tiggs or josh to review the sent proof and take action. Sometimes it's too obvious to even rethink about it.
The PC community is the red headed step child Reloaded never wanted but got saddled with when they married the PC community's mother.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Shoutout to mah real Africans out there.
#52
Posted 17 June 2015 - 08:05 AM
Keep the name and shame out of the thread please. We do review the reports that are submitted and action if someone is found to be violating the TOS.
- Aregon likes this
~~Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for thou art crunchy and go well with ketchup!!~~
#53
Posted 17 June 2015 - 08:27 AM
- -Tj- likes this
#55
Posted 17 June 2015 - 08:48 AM
Keep the name and shame out of the thread please. We do review the reports that are submitted and action if someone is found to be violating the TOS.
Can you at least post the results of these investigations? We've seen no action from your admin team, and the most blatant cheaters have continued playing, apparently unabated. Honestly, it seems as though you're more concerned with protecting the forum reputation of cheaters than you are the community's integrity.
- DerMax, crockrocket, Elite_is_salty and 9 others like this
#56
Posted 17 June 2015 - 09:18 AM
Videos of aimbotters should be allowed.
I agree, video of possible cheaters should be allowed and scrutinized. Naming and shaming is one thing, it's another when proof is provided.
Can you at least post the results of these investigations? We've seen no action from your admin team, and the most blatant cheaters have continued playing, apparently unabated. Honestly, it seems as though you're more concerned with protecting the forum reputation of cheaters than you are the community's integrity.
I understand why results of such investigations are often withheld since it can destroy a person's online reputation, and such reputations can be difficult to change even if the person changes. What stays in Vegas doesn't necessarily stay in Vegas, so to speak. HOWEVER, I don't like cheaters, plain and simple, and many have been in the game far too long. I would also like to see some sort of proactive approach to the banning of cheaters, like perhaps some acknowledgement that something is being done other than "we do review the reports that are submitted and action if someone is found to be violating the TOS."
#57
Posted 17 June 2015 - 10:06 AM
Particularly in cases of people like the subject of Hestone's clip, who have bought skins and attempted to pass as skilled players over time.
You might have answered why they're slow to take any action. Even hackers bring in revenue! ppl have kids to feed bro... :p
Jokes aside though, I don't know if Reloaded currently even has a dedicated support or investigations team to deal with hackers/cheats, even with proof. They are relatively new, having just acquired the game, and I wonder if their admin team has yet acquired the experience or understanding of what may be presented to them and thus, understandably hesitant to take any decisive action. What may seem as undisputable & blatant proof to us, may be something alien to them. I doubt they even have more than 1 or 2 people doing "support" stuff at any rate.
Hopefully in the future things will pan out, they'll be able to flesh out their teams, and deal with these things.
Edited by GGGanjaMan, 17 June 2015 - 10:07 AM.
- comic_sans, talon70, CraftyDus and 1 other like this
#58
Posted 17 June 2015 - 11:11 AM
Can you at least post the results of these investigations? We've seen no action from your admin team, and the most blatant cheaters have continued playing, apparently unabated. Honestly, it seems as though you're more concerned with protecting the forum reputation of cheaters than you are the community's integrity.
I mean, I can understand them not wanting to make every individual investigation public, but there obviously needs to be more communication and action that them saying they take reports seriously and then shutting down discussion related to the player in question without doing anything about the problem. I agree with the rest though.
What purpose does the no callouts even with video proof rule serve? Everyone knows everyone in a community this small, so it's not like people who are falsely accused wouldn't have their names cleared immediately. And regardless of that, to anyone who has significant in-game experience, the difference between someone botting and someone who's just really good is extremely obvious.
Also, on a semi-related note, why are entire posts being deleted here instead of just having the offending links edited out? No one even mentioned the player in question by name, and the discussion was nothing but respectful the entire time even when SS and I had differing opinions.
Edited by JeffMagnum, 17 June 2015 - 11:12 AM.
- DerMax and CraftyDus like this
#59
Posted 17 June 2015 - 12:01 PM
The dev's CAN'T stop people from cheating. Banning of accounts and IP will only cause them to take a roundabout way. No callouts is a good rule for anything because public shaming without forgiveness can lead people to darker depths. I honestly don't know what their plan is on the subject but I know that they don't want to rule with an iron fist.
I wish there was a function to whitelist and blacklist people on private servers. A FPS without private server infrastructure is very bazaar to me 0.o
Edited by LEmental, 17 June 2015 - 12:03 PM.
#60
Posted 17 June 2015 - 02:00 PM
I've seen one REALLY good suggestion in this thread and I've seen it before. SPECTATOR MODE would indeed shine a light on a bunch of cheats. Crooks don't generally like the "light of day" on them which is why most steal at night. (not all) If people could follow them and see what someone does it might help do two things. One it might help catch some of them. Two it might prove to some that person is not cheating. Aren't there some other games with spectator mode? Seems to me I remember it in another game but can't remember what it was. This (IMO) would save a lot of time for everyone. Save time IF a team to preview was made. Time for the players themselves. And time for Reloaded. Love this idea.
"Nov8tr" is pronounced "INNOVATOR"

Yes I'm really 64 yrs old. July 6, 1953
#61
Posted 17 June 2015 - 02:25 PM
While spectator mode would be great in general, I'm not convinced that it'd cause the devs to take action if they aren't already willing to do so from first-person killcam videos with snapping or Pred footage of someone perfectly tracking enemies through walls. I'm willing to cut Reloaded some temporary slack on account of them not knowing the game well enough yet to conclusively determine whether someone is botting or not, but there was no excuse for Adhesive ignoring that sort of submitted evidence.
LE, there are actual reasons to ban botters that would discourage them from coming back. The one in particular that a lot of the discussion has centered around probably has at least $50 worth of cosmetics (which also shows how confident they were that ADH gave approximately zero shits), plus they have to earn enough HC to buy back all of the mechs they've purchased. And FWIW, every time there's been a public accusation from a user who knows what they're talking about, it's been more "People have been trying to go about getting this person banned via legitimate channels without anything happening for months now, so maybe this will work" than "lol look at dum aimbotter pls harass them until they quit forever."
Edited by JeffMagnum, 17 June 2015 - 02:33 PM.
- Nept, -Tj- and Dew like this
#62
Posted 17 June 2015 - 04:31 PM
Well, I know AirMech has a spectator mode, and that's been mostly great for new players to learn the ropes, and for experienced players to learn new tricks, but apparently it was an utter ballache to get right and took some significant development time to iron out the bugs. It IS a reasonable idea for Hawken, but I honestly don't see how it will change the current issues since video evidence (note NOT proof, that is subjective) already exists for many potential botters and yet no action appears to have been taken.
I can only assume, but with reasonable confidence, that the in-game purchase issue is a big part of the trouble, since there is a two-way legal obligation once any monetary transaction has taken place, and even a single instance of erroneous perma-ban (in whatever form that may take) could lead to big issues and bad publicity. This is something I understand Reloaded NEED to avoid, especially at the tentative stage the game is currently at.
Naming and shaming causes trouble. It always has and it always will. Even if you get it right 1000 times on the trot, the first time you get it wrong could spell disaster, a player can create a new account, use proxies, or a dozen other ways to get around a besmirched reputation, the devs do not have the same luxury, and THEIR reputation is what the very existence of the game hinges on, especially at the moment.
If it is TRULY so much of an issue for people in this community, surely a couple of you have the time/ability to offer services to Reloaded in an official (and therefore ACCOUNTABLE) manner...? Perhaps that is the way to go, perhaps not. The whole subject is sensitive, awkward and somewhat hazy tbh. I come across the occassional botter, here and there, and honestly I find them entertaining more often than not. They usually can't play the game particularly well in the first place, and it is often fairly simple to merely out-play the bot with some canny moves and a bit of team coordination. If they are on the enemy team, make a point of gunning for them, if they are on your own, make a point of NOT helping them. 9 times out of 10, a botter who doesn't get the reactions of frustration and woe from their 'victims' will rapidly lose interest anyhow.
Regardless, I do hope that Reloaded keep a copy of evidence sent, and keep notes on those players reported repeatedly, because eventually there will need to be accountability, but for now, in this state of purgatory within which Hawken currently resides, there must be patience and understanding. Every time another post comes up on here bemoaning the 'hackers and botters' and how they 'ruin' the game, the real cheaters get another little kick of smug self-superiority. PLEASE stop feeding the trolls...
All I ask is a tall ship, and a star to steer her by.
#63
Posted 17 June 2015 - 04:40 PM
- Nov8tr likes this
#64
Posted 17 June 2015 - 04:49 PM
Also, on a semi-related note, why are entire posts being deleted here instead of just having the offending links edited out? No one even mentioned the player in question by name, and the discussion was nothing but respectful the entire time even when SS and I had differing opinions.
I wouldn't say we had differing opinions, I would just say I didn't see that single video as obvious aimbotting. Yeah, theres some weird movements I can't explain, but theres also a weird movement I noticed with Hestoneds reticule at the 3 second marker that I can't explain either. His reticule jumps back and forth between two positions a few degrees apart like 4 times. Any idea what caused that? Cause to me that doesn't seem normal. For some reason I just keep wondering if there was something server side that was not keeping up with tracking players (like rubberbanding or something).
Overall I need more proof to make an informed decision on that guy is all I'm saying. Like larger degree snaps, perfect dead center snap to targets and way better tracking. Tj said he had more video and I'd love to see it.
As far as them nuking peoples posts, its just easier for them to click the nuke button than to go in an edit them. Editing them would of been nice, but in the end they don't have to be nice.
Also, I'm sure that theres no way in hell Reloaded is going to discuss the results of accusations, ADH never did that with us before either. Even for us in the secret group, they wouldn't discuss actions enforced. I'm pretty sure they also don't swing the banhammer and nuke an account at the very first infraction. They probably start off with a day or two of a temp ban, and then on consecutive infractions they start increasing ban time trying get the person to realize they should stop. Kinda like how they do on the forums when someone steps outta line. So expecting that guy to just lose all his stuff instantly might be a bit of a reach.
[DELETED]
fuzzy bunny you CZeroFive
#65
Posted 17 June 2015 - 05:05 PM
I can only assume, but with reasonable confidence, that the in-game purchase issue is a big part of the trouble, since there is a two-way legal obligation once any monetary transaction has taken place, and even a single instance of erroneous perma-ban (in whatever form that may take) could lead to big issues and bad publicity. This is something I understand Reloaded NEED to avoid, especially at the tentative stage the game is currently at.
Naming and shaming causes trouble. It always has and it always will. Even if you get it right 1000 times on the trot, the first time you get it wrong could spell disaster, a player can create a new account, use proxies, or a dozen other ways to get around a besmirched reputation, the devs do not have the same luxury, and THEIR reputation is what the very existence of the game hinges on, especially at the moment.
If it is TRULY so much of an issue for people in this community, surely a couple of you have the time/ability to offer services to Reloaded in an official (and therefore ACCOUNTABLE) manner...? Perhaps that is the way to go, perhaps not. The whole subject is sensitive, awkward and somewhat hazy tbh. I come across the occassional botter, here and there, and honestly I find them entertaining more often than not. They usually can't play the game particularly well in the first place, and it is often fairly simple to merely out-play the bot with some canny moves and a bit of team coordination. If they are on the enemy team, make a point of gunning for them, if they are on your own, make a point of NOT helping them. 9 times out of 10, a botter who doesn't get the reactions of frustration and woe from their 'victims' will rapidly lose interest anyhow.
All they'd have to do is add an appeals system for the very rare accidental ban. I don't think the risk there is nearly as large as you're making it out to be anyway since that scenario happens in popular games that are doing well financially.
I realize naming and shaming isn't optimal, but what do you expect people to do after multiple players report someone with included video evidence and nothing is done? Do you think getting a reputation as admins who let aimbots and wallhacks go unchecked is better than getting a reputation for accidentally banning a handful of people who were promptly unbanned after they showed they were legitimate? Hawken already has a persistent false reputation for being P2W, and it definitely doesn't need even more baggage when the new devs are trying to turn things around.
What sort of official role are you thinking? I doubt they're going to actually hire on people from the community for the sole purpose of reviewing footage of suspected botters. It also isn't an issue of whether or not bots are easy for us to kill; the problem is that the average 1400 MMR player is going to have no way to counter that sort of aim and will likely quit out of frustration if they go up against cheaters frequently.
I think Nov8tr meant spectator mode would make the cheaters uncomfortable while playing. When I put a known hacker on the spot, they usually either stay absolutely silent, or immediately change their behavior that can be read through what they type in chat. If the vast majority of people oppose what they're doing, people will get uncomfortable. In the case of hacking, most of these people know what they're getting into. They know it's wrong. There are well known bots that turn their stuff off at times, for that reason. If nothing is going to be done, why would they need to turn their bot off? Or the people who pretty evidently use wall hacks or toggles only. On the private servers with radar and indicators off, there were a few individuals suspected of tracking through walls. They're still nervous.
It would only matter if they knew actions were being taken against people confirmed to be cheating though. They historically have had no reason to not be blatant about it.
I wouldn't say we had differing opinions, I would just say I didn't see that single video as obvious aimbotting. Yeah, theres some weird movements I can't explain, but theres also a weird movement I noticed with Hestoneds reticule at the 3 second marker that I can't explain either. His reticule jumps back and forth between two positions a few degrees apart like 4 times. Any idea what caused that? Cause to me that doesn't seem normal. For some reason I just keep wondering if there was something server side that was not keeping up with tracking players (like rubberbanding or something).
Overall I need more proof to make an informed decision on that guy is all I'm saying. Like larger degree snaps, perfect dead center snap to targets and way better tracking. Tj said he had more video and I'd love to see it.
Yeah, that probably wasn't the best way to describe it. One of the main reasons I'm so certain of it is because I've played with them every day I've been on for about a week now and it's always the same deal, so I imagine that video would be less damning if you didn't have that recent experience. If you want to try to get into a game with them to see firsthand, they tend to be on sporadically during the day and more consistently for a few hours after getting on at 10 pm-12 am CST.
Edited by JeffMagnum, 17 June 2015 - 05:15 PM.
#66
Posted 17 June 2015 - 05:10 PM
theres also a weird movement I noticed with Hestoneds reticule at the 3 second marker that I can't explain either. His reticule jumps back and forth between two positions a few degrees apart like 4 times. Any idea what caused that? Cause to me that doesn't seem normal.
Overall I need more proof to make an informed decision on that guy is all I'm saying. Like larger degree snaps, perfect dead center snap to targets and way better tracking. Tj said he had more video and I'd love to see it.
hestoned's reticle movement is normal. In fact, if I ever start streaming, you might see the same thing on my screen. It's basically your hand movements doing some target compensation that happens somewhat automatically. I'm sure not everyone does it, but it's one reason I suck at hitscan weapons. My ping is always all over the place and I never really know how far to compensate for the difference, so I end up trying various degrees of target leading before I find the sweet spot and stick with it, at least till the target changes direction. Because of this, sometimes my reticle will jump around as my hand and brain fight over where they think the target is going. Are they going to suddenly dodge or jump, or are they going to continue on their current path in a straight, predictable line? Hand will do what it wants, brain will try to keep it in line.
I'll PM you some links to the videos. I have a video in the works that describes in detail what the cheater is doing and why it's obvious they're cheating. It's about halfway done (there's a lot of notes I'm adding) but hopefully I can get it done soon. I'll PM that to you later, too.
#67
Posted 17 June 2015 - 07:27 PM
It also isn't an issue of whether or not bots are easy for us to kill; the problem is that the average 1400 MMR player is going to have no way to counter that sort of aim and will likely quit out of frustration if they go up against cheaters frequently.
Thats an interesting observation. Do you think the same frustration could be experienced by that 1400 player against anyone with really good aim though?
I did get into a game with them yesterday, but they were playing bruiser and rocketeer on uptown, so it didn't really do any good except for me to be able to view his profile in game.If you want to try to get into a game with them to see firsthand, they tend to be on sporadically during the day and more consistently for a few hours after getting on at 10 pm-12 am CST.
And thanks, I look forward to it.I'll PM you some links to the videos. I have a video in the works that describes in detail what the cheater is doing and why it's obvious they're cheating. It's about halfway done (there's a lot of notes I'm adding) but hopefully I can get it done soon. I'll PM that to you later, too.
And BTW, you asked earlier about the stats I was referring too, and I have my own way of getting peoples stats. Thats how I got his MMR. lol
[DELETED]
fuzzy bunny you CZeroFive
#68
Posted 17 June 2015 - 09:18 PM
LE, there are actual reasons to ban botters that would discourage them from coming back. The one in particular that a lot of the discussion has centered around probably has at least $50 worth of cosmetics (which also shows how confident they were that ADH gave approximately zero shits), plus they have to earn enough HC to buy back all of the mechs they've purchased. And FWIW, every time there's been a public accusation from a user who knows what they're talking about, it's been more "People have been trying to go about getting this person banned via legitimate channels without anything happening for months now, so maybe this will work" than "lol look at dum aimbotter pls harass them until they quit forever."
I was mainly repeating what I have heard the devs talk about. I honestly don't know the best way to handle this.
#69
Posted 17 June 2015 - 10:15 PM
Thats an interesting observation. Do you think the same frustration could be experienced by that 1400 player against anyone with really good aim though?
I think it's worse if they actually know the person beating them is aimbotting, whether that's from noticing personally or from other people in the server pointing it out. People usually accept that they're going to have to work awhile to get good in a game they're new to, so seeing a seemingly unbeatable botter is likely more frustrating and offputting since the new player knows that the other person has effectively taken a shortcut to being skilled and has a significant unfair advantage over everyone who plays without cheats.
- SS396, DieselCat and comic_sans like this
#70
Posted 17 June 2015 - 10:33 PM
And BTW, you asked earlier about the stats I was referring too, and I have my own way of getting peoples stats. Thats how I got his MMR. lol
Wut
- SS396 likes this

Salvage: An Idea to Stop Leavers
#71
Posted 18 June 2015 - 03:33 AM
I think it's worse if they actually know the person beating them is aimbotting, whether that's from noticing personally or from other people in the server pointing it out. People usually accept that they're going to have to work awhile to get good in a game they're new to, so seeing a seemingly unbeatable botter is likely more frustrating and offputting since the new player knows that the other person has effectively taken a shortcut to being skilled and has a significant unfair advantage over everyone who plays without cheats.
Well, thats kinda what I was pondering. I wonder if the 1400ish player can differentiate between someone aimbotting and a good player with good aim. You know what I mean, from their perspective they are just killed quickly every time theres a confrontation with either case. I don't know if theres enough time to actually understand and analyze where they made the mistakes. So I think that the new players are unable to determine the difference correctly, and its just easier to draw a conclusion that both cases are cheating somehow. Overall I think the end result is the same though, frustration and we lose another player. Some people are able to overlook the insta jump to cheater accusation and take the licks and keep pressing on. Whats alarming is the number of accounts that have never even gotten to pilot rank 2. Makes me think a great deal of them are the result of that.
After looking at some of the video Tj provided privately, there is certainly some foul play going on. Even his comments in chat seem to be pretty smug and boisterous. I guess we can only hope that Reloaded actually enforces some sort of discipline sooner than later.
[DELETED]
fuzzy bunny you CZeroFive
#72
Posted 18 June 2015 - 05:24 AM
Even his comments in chat seem to be pretty smug and boisterous.
I have noticed a while ago that aimbotters almost always shittalk, in one way or another. It's like a common trait. Never seen a polite, sportsmanlike player cheating.
- comic_sans and GalaxyRadio like this
#73
Posted 18 June 2015 - 05:52 AM
I have noticed a while ago that aimbotters almost always shittalk, in one way or another. It's like a common trait. Never seen a polite, sportsmanlike player cheating.
Either they shittalk or they don't say anything at all.
- DerMax, DieselCat, GalaxyRadio and 2 others like this
#74
Posted 18 June 2015 - 09:48 AM
- -Tj- and Nov8tr like this

Salvage: An Idea to Stop Leavers
#75
Posted 18 June 2015 - 01:36 PM
I agree CrockRocket, but don't forget. Hawken is by no means the only game with aimbots and wallhacks. In fact most of the sites that sell this fuzzy bunny have them over 35 different games. So some people would recognize one no matter what game. But yes for the most part, new people would not know how to recognize one. And Flifang, you're right that is what I meant. I don't think that being able to sit outside the game and follow any player around is going to be the answer but it would help a lot. Plus it would be a good start for sure. ![]()
- SS396, crockrocket and Flifang like this
"Nov8tr" is pronounced "INNOVATOR"

Yes I'm really 64 yrs old. July 6, 1953
#76
Posted 20 June 2015 - 09:15 PM
I have noticed a while ago that aimbotters almost always shittalk, in one way or another. It's like a common trait. Never seen a polite, sportsmanlike player cheating.
What really? How is that possible? How can that be? I totally learned something new today.
Now, kill aimbotters in a 1v1. It is the best feeling ever. T-Bag and taunt. Maybe a Thug Life holo taunt especially for these players ;D
- Sitting next to the sound box in Last Eco -
#77
Posted 21 August 2015 - 03:21 AM
The problem...
Sad sociopaths who haven't a shred of self respect (I could go on, easily), a.k.a. Hackers
Community fail...
Waiting for the cops/devs/someone else to do something. I keep seeing suggestions and instructions about reporting with video evidence bla bla bla, all of these effors are to no avail, and if you think your gameplay time is being wasted by a hacked, why extend that waste even more time reorting? I have reported hackers myself, and besides the heartwarming responses from the dev team, the result has been a big fat zero. I understand why and I expected the zero, but I did it a couple of times just to try and tackle this via the correct channel.
Solution 1 - Programmatically...
Friendly fire on! Good luck waiting for the devs - it's not just the devs you're gonna be waiting for, there is an entire process. Yet, this is a solution which worked very well in other games I have had the displeasure of playing.
Solution 2 - Socially (the real solution)...
:: Preamble ::
Nothing will make a hacker dissapear from the server faster than a dot com company as an inevitable loss. We all know their common MO, why is this not being used against them?
:: Just do them ::
The next time you come accross one of the usual loathed callsigns, the hacker's enemy team should only targer the hacker, and the hacker's team should sit and watch the slaughter while drinking endless cups of tea in an ergonomically comfortable position. By the time your favourite mug needs a refill, there will be more t-bags avilable than the hacker can handle, resulting in an instant Kaiser Soze.
:: Implementation ::
You don't need to be an influencer or a community leader to instanciate this. All you need is a minimum of 2 people. An inciter, and an approver. Once the idea is incited, without the approval of at least one other player, the inciter starts looking a little, well, like me on a bad day. Don't just ignore the inciter or leave the server, the equation is simple... STICK TOGETHER.
Concern & Coherence...
Implementation not to be used nonchalantly. I am not talking about "potential" hackers or good players, I am talking about the usual suspects. If you have a plentitude of experienced players which are of the same opinion, well, 1.5 billion Chinese can't be wrong. That's all the jury you need. The youtube vids are the icing on the cake.
Tolerance...
If a player has such challenged hand to eye coordination, to point where an aimbot is need just to kinda stay on par, so be it.
The punishment...
Keep bullying them out of the servers till they have to open a new account or leave the game completely. Even if they see the error of their ways, apologise, send you flowers and chocolates (probably poisoned), no crime goes unpunished, make'em start from scratch!
Experience / Let down...
I have witnessed this done only ONCE in the last 6 months, and it was an instant success. Though, laissez-faire is what I always get "oh never mind, just play". It is this defeatist attitude which enables these little goat droppings to keep ruining games one after the other. Why never mind? I don't usually play to be someone's cannon fodder, but when I do, it's because I get my rectum handed to me fair and square.
I would like all of you to consider this proposition and actually implement it, so we can go back to our fun servers without having to check if the slots are full in order to have piece of mind that no hacker will join and ruin a game half way through.
Some of you may be reading with a lingering flavour of disbelief that I wrote this for lack of any mention of fornication, so let me reassure you, **** the ******* *******.
#78
Posted 21 August 2015 - 08:12 AM
^I have tried, probably as many times as you, to convince all the other players in a match to act against the cheater (I won't call them hackers because I have more respect for the clever intelligence of actual hackers than I have for stupid cheaters) to get them to leave. And it has always gone the same way:
I ask all players on the cheaters team to isolate themselves from the cheater AND all players on my team to focus on the cheater.
I'll get one or two people from the team opposite the cheater to agree. The rest of that team says, Eh, whatever, I'ma play like normal.
The people on the same team as said cheater say, "Don't make haccusations, how do you know they're cheating?" OR they say nothing and do nothing at all... because they are winning and that's what they really care about.
Folks simply don't get upset when the cheater is benefiting them - but they're the first person to leave the server when the cheater is on the other team.
- -Tj- and DieselCat like this
To be serious for a moment this is just a joke
#79
Posted 22 August 2015 - 02:26 AM
Hmm food for thought. Reloaded has been here 8 months now. Not a "little while". I don't know anyone who has been banned. And I know a LOT of people in this game. A LOT. None of them have said one word about anyone being banned. Ever. I don't see any dev team. I don't see problems being fixed. In fact most of what I do see is a lot of items being sold. I have way too much time and way too much money invested in this game to watch it disappear. But sadly enough, piece by piece and bit by bit it is. I will be sad if or when it does. I have done everything I humanly can to prevent that. I'm a very tired, worn out old man now. My "good fight" is about at a end. I still play, I still try to help others, I still try to encourage new players. I thank all of you that do the same. I'm just not sure it's enough. I'm going to bed now, it's 6:30 AM EST and I'm tired, so tired. Good night.
"Nov8tr" is pronounced "INNOVATOR"

Yes I'm really 64 yrs old. July 6, 1953
#80
Posted 22 August 2015 - 02:37 AM
Build upon the 1st person deathcam, Make an option to spectate from that player's POV as it's not a viable/reliable way of catching people at the moment.

1 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users
Sign In
Create Account



Back to top
















