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#1
Greennovis

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Hello. 2 days ago i started playing this game (i though its cool). But now im getting a real difficulty not to get mad. When i started playing i really like this game and i also bought premium right away. I've bought my first mech after day and half of farming. It was incinerator. I totaly liked it until i bought the new weapon. I wasted 6000 points on weapon that makes the incinerator totall useless piece of fuzzy bunny and now i have to buy and exp new incinerator for it to be not totally uselesss. WTF????????????? 



#2
phed

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Hello. 2 days ago i started playing this game (i though its cool). But now im getting a real difficulty not to get mad. When i started playing i really like this game and i also bought premium right away. I've bought my first mech after day and half of farming. It was incinerator. I totaly liked it until i bought the new weapon. I wasted 6000 points on weapon that makes the incinerator totall useless piece of fuzzy bunny and now i have to buy and exp new incinerator for it to be not totally uselesss. WTF?????????????


Hey buddy, you can re-equip the other gun if you prefer it, no need to get a 2nd incin (unless you want to have 2 different item/internal builds to choose from on the fly). Also, if you look around they got some pretty good guides on how to use that gun and not overheat every other second (though I still can't use it myself). Most incin pilots will agree that it is actually the best gun for the mech once you learn it.

Good luck, have fun, and welcome to the hawkens pilot!

Edited by phed, 08 May 2015 - 11:49 PM.

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#3
Lioot

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It's awesome you like te game and I do understand how you feel. I pretty much did what you did, purchased the incinerator and grinded for the next weapon, or the PPA.

It's certainly different from the first weapon and does require more micro managing due to it's massive heat generation.

But yeah, no need to buy a new mech, just change the weapon by clicking on it before you spawn or just in your garage

#4
BaronSaturday

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The M4M4 is arguably a very good weapon for the Incin.  Also note that if you plan to stay with your team, then there is nothing wrong with using the M4M4.  It just takes a little practice.  The PP4 is going to net you a higher DPS all around, better suited for your lone wolf style of play, but comes with a much higher learning curve than the M4M4. Remember, each secondary except the TOW and grenade launcher has an alternative firing mode. With the incin it's a larger fireball. Try using only that mode withbthe M4M4. Also, you can just switch back to the BBY at any time.


Edited by BaronSaturday, 09 May 2015 - 08:10 PM.

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#5
Merl61

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The M4M4 is arguably the incins best weapon. Remember, each secondary except the TOW and grenade launcher has an alternative firing mode. With the incin it's a larger fireball. Try using only that mode withbthe M4M4. Also, you can just switch back to the BBY at any time.

No. NONOONONONONONONNONONNONONNOONONNONNOONONOONO. PP4. All day. 


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#6
Xacius

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The M4M4 is arguably the incins best weapon. Remember, each secondary except the TOW and grenade launcher has an alternative firing mode. With the incin it's a larger fireball. Try using only that mode withbthe M4M4. Also, you can just switch back to the BBY at any time.

The PPA is the best weapon for the incinerator.  Infinite heat gen, just requires a rhythm.  Big SAARE > little SAARE.  


Edited by Xacius, 09 May 2015 - 12:43 AM.

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#7
BaronSaturday

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I would argue that, on the grounds of the M4M4 being more accessible and viable across all mmr ranges, it is better. While the PPA has very high dps it also comes witg a very high wind up time and heat generation so massive that if you fart while.using it it will over heat. While this certainly makes it more interesting than the M4M4, usability is something to take into consideration.

Also, note that I did say arguably. It's subjective. Inn skilled hands both weapons are super dangerous.

Edited by BaronSaturday, 09 May 2015 - 01:01 AM.

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#8
LiveBacteria

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The M4M4 is arguably the incins best weapon. Remember, each secondary except the TOW and grenade launcher has an alternative firing mode. With the incin it's a larger fireball. Try using only that mode withbthe M4M4. Also, you can just switch back to the BBY at any time.


Secondary firing, Utility, mode for TOW is actually used to explode the TOW Rocket when you choose. ^^

Edited by LiveBacteria, 09 May 2015 - 01:18 AM.

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#9
BaronSaturday

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Secondary firing, Utility, mode for TOW is actually used to explode the TOW Rocket when you choose. ^^


Oh come on. That only almost counts... >.>
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#10
Blaz0re

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I think for players new to the game it really would be nice to have something like a dificulty rating on the mechs.
The first mech you buy on your own is something really special, i remember when i bought my first brawler because it was cheap and immediately hated it because it was so slow and i hated the flak cannon.
Incinerator is a nice mech, but I also think it might not be the best to buy first because of the price and because of how special it is to use.

Just a random idea: How about the possibility to do the practice mode with every mech you like, doesn't matter of you bought it yet or not. You could see how it feels before you spend your hard grinded HC on it and you won't be disappointed then. On the other hand a lot of the magic of unlocking the mech and playing it for the first time in a battle will be destroyed.

Anyways, this game really needs new players and for the new players it will be very frustrating if they spend their money on crap ( even if it only seems liek crap to them ).
Maybe the option to refund the HC within 4h, 8h, 12h, 24h after you bought it or something like that might help as well.



#11
Greennovis

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Thx for advices but my problem is that the M4MA is useless in combat. You ither focus on hitting with M4MA and miss many (like 60-80%)  "Big Fireballs"  (unless enemy is standing in a corner then its OP but honestly what mech isnt op vs stanging target????) or to focus on hitting enemy with "big fireball" and then u dont hit them with M4MA. Either way i find the incinerator many times stronger with BBY bcz with BBY u can manage to hit with both. And the PPA? WTF? Im dead before it spins up. Im overheated about 1 seconds after it starts shooting. Imho PPA is very unpractical in combat.

 

Now i want to get 2nd mech. I wanted to buy rocketeer but playing him on a test drive really made me roconsider that. Im tunnel-visioned roamer who finds "teamplayers" being a faggotz and want to be able to make difference solo. I like the assault bcz i like machineguns and rocketlaunchers. I find myself average in keeping the enemy in crosshair so i like using machineguns and i also find myself prety good hiting with rockets (played a lot of Quake and TF2) so i dont know what mech to buy if the (i dont know the name i think its bruiser its the one who starts with Vulcan and Hellfire Rockets) or G-2 assault.



#12
kasei

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And the PPA? WTF? Im ded before it spins up. Im overheated about 1 seconds after it starts shooting. Imho PPA is very unpractical in combat.


That's where the rhythm Xacius mentioned comes in.

You really don't want to be surprised when using PAPA. You should try to dictate when you enter combat so the PAPA is at full speed when you want it to be.

When holding a point, the PAPA should always be spinning, even when you're not shooting. It takes practice to keep it spinning all the time.

When in combat, shoot PAPA a little, then stop, aim, and shoot a fireball, rinse and repeat... forever. Half the time you don't even need to aim the fireball since its splash radius is so large.

With that said, I use MAMA most of the time. Heat from teammates screws me every time.

Edited by kasei, 09 May 2015 - 04:04 AM.


#13
BaronSaturday

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Thx for advices but my problem is that the M4MA is useless in combat. You ither focus on hitting with M4MA and miss many (like 60-80%) "Big Fireballs" (unless enemy is standing in a corner then its OP but honestly what mech isnt op vs stanging target????) or to focus on hitting enemy with "big fireball" and then u dont hit them with M4MA. Either way i find the incinerator many times stronger with BBY bcz with BBY u can manage to hit with both. And the PPA? WTF? Im ded before it spins up. Im overheated about 1 seconds after it starts shooting. Imho PPA is very unpractical in combat.

Now i want to get 2nd mech. I wanted to buy rocketeer but playing him on a test drive really made me roconsider that. Im tunnel-visioned roamer who finds "teamplayers" being a faggotz and want to be able to make difference solo. I like the assault bcz i like machineguns and rocketlaunchers. I find myself average in keeping the enemy in crosshair so i like using machineguns and i also find myself prety good hiting with rockets (played a lot of Quake and TF2) so i dont know what mech to buy if the (i dont know the name i think its bruiser its the one who starts with Vulcan and Hellfire Rockets) or G-2 assault.


I'm actually not sure what to say to this. If team play is for, as you so elegantly put, "faggotz", then you should play DM or better yet, go play CoD where you can be a mindless offensive drone. This game is built around working in a team. There is no 1v1 in this game because nothing is balanced 1 to 1 and that's a deliberate design decision. Good luck bud.
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#14
MomOw

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a. switch SAARE to charged mode

b. (spinning) P4P4

c. DAKKA DAKKA

d. POW

 

repeat from part c.

 


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#15
CraftyDus

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Papa is strongest, no contest.
Baby is easiest.
Use alternate Primary Mode.
Never Stop Firing.
Don't listen to Starterday OP, he doesn't have the knowledge or experience to know any better yet.

Edited by Dustin, 09 May 2015 - 04:46 AM.

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#16
kasei

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#17
LaurenEmily

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One problem in these *insert useless mech/weapon here* threads is the fact that less experienced players seem to assume everything is supposed to be played like the assault mech, and obviously they fail, get frustrated and come here complaining.

 

Now i'm not sure if this is entirely the game's fault for not explaining the differences clearly enough, but it sure could do a better job on that regard. 


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#18
CraftyDus

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random vitriol

 

I'm not trying to be mean or pick on you guy.
You just aren't familiar enough with the incin to pontificate.

It's nothing personal, you just gave some bad misinformation.


Back to topic; The primaries on the incin are named  for Goldilocks and The Three bears.

Papa Bear is too much. (max dps)
Mama Bear is less so.
And Baby Bear is juust right. (for a girl who's lost, tired, and hungry in the forest)

Are the Cockpit Shows archived somewhere?
Huge fund of wisdom there, I remember an awesome episode about the incin.


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#19
LaurenEmily

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Papa Bear is too much. (max dps)
Mama Bear is less so.
And Baby Bear is juust right. (for a girl who's lost, tired, and hungry in the forest)

 

I also realized this a while ago and it's a very clever reference by the developers, only thing i would like to nitpick though is that i believe the 'bear names' are in reference to their heat levels, just like in the story if you read it very carefully. 

(papa bear is too hot, baby bear too cold, mama bear just right.)


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#20
CraftyDus

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[–]Xacius The king returns 7 points

1 year ago *

 The PPA trumps both the MMA and BBY for one reason: Higher heat generation. The Incinerator's strength is its secondary weapon, the SAARE Launcher. Since both the small SAARE and large SAARE have the same cooldown, it's more advantageous to spam the larger projectile (higher damage, bigger radius). The PPA generates enough heat, too much actually if held down all the way, to spam the big SAARE infinitely at max speed. The BBY and MMA do not. The trick is managing enough heat to spam the SAARE as fast as possible while not overheating. Parse your shots on the PPA and spam the fuzzy bunny out of the SAARE! If you're interested in seeing the PPA playstyle, check out some of my scrim footage here[1]

 


Edited by Dustin, 09 May 2015 - 09:09 AM.

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#21
comic_sans

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PPA is best by a mile, learn it and love it.

 

Also, I've said it a few times, but it is so useful I'll say it again.  After the PPA gets spun up and starts firing, start actually clicking your left and right mouse button in alternation really fast instead of trying to figure out what a good ratio of bullets to SAARE shots is.  It only require the most basic attention to the heat bar to not overheat, even with a team behind you.


Edited by &THC& comic_sans, 09 May 2015 - 09:13 AM.

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#22
LaurenEmily

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Haha this is great :)

 

Except what kind of a sick sadistic bastard would name a series of giant-ass spinning death bringers after such adorable characters from a children's story :D ?

I actually appreciate the sheer amount of dark humor in that.


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#23
IareDave

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Don't listen to all these casuals. The BBY is superior. 


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#24
Flifang

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I kind of want to hit on the idea of a detailed description in the mech store about difficulty. If I remember correctly at one point there was something that allowed players to view how hard the mech was. I'm not sure if it's still there but if it's not maybe implement it again or if it is still there make it a baseline sorting option so you can sort by difficulty
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#25
nokari

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Here's an idea: The Incinerator isn't the best mech choice for everyone. I can use every mech in this game pretty well, but some definitely better than others. Incinerator is one I just can't seem to get used to.

Some people just have a hard time using it, be it because of the unique rhythms you have to get used to or some people have better aim than others.

 

I'd suggest you watch some game play vids of people using the Incinerator with each of the weapons and then going out and practicing against Bots. In my experience, it's difficult to pick any new mech with weapons you've never used before and expect to do well your first few matches. This game can have a steep learning curve that can only be overcome by practice. But, you may just not like the mech and that's A-OK. There are plenty others you can try.


Edited by nokari, 09 May 2015 - 01:25 PM.

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#26
Xacius

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I would argue that, on the grounds of the M4M4 being more accessible and viable across all mmr ranges, it is better. While the PPA has very high dps it also comes witg a very high wind up time and heat generation so massive that if you fart while.using it it will over heat. While this certainly makes it more interesting than the M4M4, usability is something to take into consideration.

Also, note that I did say arguably. It's subjective. Inn skilled hands both weapons are super dangerous.

 

I don't mind when people speculate.  I do mind when people are wrong and claim that their speculations are accurate.  

 

Also, note that I did say arguably. It's subjective.

 

It's not subjective.  You can't take a concrete set of stats, i.e. weapon damage/firing speed/spread, apply them in your own little world, and then state "it's subjective because I'm arguing that it's subjective. "

 

The M4M4 fires projectiles with spread.  It's not easier to use than the BBY, which fires hitscan with minimal spread.  In fact, it's far more difficult, and gets even harder at longer range.  See, I've used both extensively.  I have hours upon hours of personal experience to back up my assertions.  How many hours do you have logged on the Incinerator? 

 

Spoiler

 

While this certainly makes it more interesting than the M4M4, usability is something to take into consideration.

 

It's not a matter of "more/less interesting."  It's a matter of effectiveness.  A weapon being more/less interesting means nothing regarding its effectiveness.  

 

Even if it were a matter of usability, the entire reason that this thread exists is because OP purchased the M4M4 and fuzzy bunnyng hates it, which is indicative of a lack of usability. 

 

Arguably, you are wrong on every front.  


Edited by Xacius, 09 May 2015 - 01:45 PM.

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#27
BaronSaturday

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I'm not trying to be mean or pick on you guy.
You just aren't familiar enough with the incin to pontificate.
It's nothing personal, you just gave some bad misinformation.


Back to topic; The primaries on the incin are named for Goldilocks and The Three bears.

Papa Bear is too much. (max dps)
Mama Bear is less so.
And Baby Bear is juust right. (for a girl who's lost, tired, and hungry in the forest)

Are the Cockpit Shows archived somewhere?
Huge fund of wisdom there, I remember an awesome episode about the incin.


It's not random vitriol. I guess it was removed too. Let me clear the air here with you as it does actually bother me. It's not what you say, it's how you say it. While you are more experienced than I am, my point is not invalidated by that fact because there is a point to be made for the M4M4 over the PPY, but instead of asking you disregarded it completely and you did so on an assumption and you did so in a disrespectful tone.

As for the topic at hand. I've played with some of the most capable players in this game. We've discussed, at length the, the merits of weapons such as the M4M4 and the pn223. While not optimal, both of those weapons are strong damage support weapons. It's all in application. For the OP who doesn't want to be a "faggotz" and work in a team the PPA is perfect. He won't be around his team so heat gen won't be an issue. He won't have to think very hard and the PPA is the thinking mans gun. The M4M4 is more forgiving and allows the player to continuously fir big balls in a the group support role without having to worry, thus allowing them to focus on the battle better. The M4M4 id better suited for that role but leaves something to be desired 1v1. It's really a trade off. You cannot maximize the PPYs DPS potential with 3 other people fighting near you. The M4M4 is purpose built for it. That's been my experience with some of our guys and it's been a talking point in our team because we don't discount things just because it's not the meta. We vigorously test things to develop a firm understanding. What we've found, is that the M4M4 fits our group dynamic better thsn the PPA because of how we use support and suppression. Moving forward, we understand that we can be surprised and try everything.

In conclusion, the M4M4 is ARGUABLY the incins best primary, but that's dependant on it's application.

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#28
Silverfire

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From what I've seen across two full seasons of competitive play, and having been around when the Incinerator first appeared, Incin, particularly PPA Incin, is greatly effective leading a charge with infinite DPS and massive damage/heat output, even with team mates stuck around you. All it means is more heat for your SAARE to use, which does decent damage and gives the opponent heat to boot. PPA can be kept spun up and used in tandem with secondary SAARE.

M4M4 and BBY just can't compete with that amount of DPS, for a spearhead type mech, and even as "support" type (despite not maximizing the Incin's effectiveness). More damage (and PPA is hitscan too, not projectile like M4M4) plus offensive heat gen is something that has proven to be far more effective than just more heat given on dual projectiles.

Edited by Silverfire, 09 May 2015 - 02:40 PM.

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#29
Xacius

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It's not random vitriol. I guess it was removed too. Let me clear the air here with you as it does actually bother me. It's not what you say, it's how you say it. While you are more experienced than I am, my point is not invalidated by that fact because there is a point to be made for the M4M4 over the PPY, but instead of asking you disregarded it completely and you did so on an assumption and you did so in a disrespectful tone.

As for the topic at hand. I've played with some of the most capable players in this game. We've discussed, at length the, the merits of weapons such as the M4M4 and the pn223. While not optimal, both of those weapons are strong damage support weapons. It's all in application. For the OP who doesn't want to be a "faggotz" and work in a team the PPA is perfect. He won't be around his team so heat gen won't be an issue. He won't have to think very hard and the PPA is the thinking mans gun. The M4M4 is more forgiving and allows the player to continuously fir big balls in a the group support role without having to worry, thus allowing them to focus on the battle better. The M4M4 id better suited for that role but leaves something to be desired 1v1. It's really a trade off. You cannot maximize the PPYs DPS potential with 3 other people fighting near you. The M4M4 is purpose built for it. That's been my experience with some of our guys and it's been a talking point in our team because we don't discount things just because it's not the meta. We vigorously test things to develop a firm understanding. What we've found, is that the M4M4 fits our group dynamic better thsn the PPA because of how we use support and suppression. Moving forward, we understand that we can be surprised and try everything.

In conclusion, the M4M4 is ARGUABLY the incins best primary, but that's dependant on it's application.

 

While I understand your frustration, you must also understand that it's equally frustrating to see someone attempting to give advice to players that are struggling, yet giving the wrong advice. While your intentions are good, your actual advice is not.

If you're speculating, then speculate and ask questions. Outright stating something that you think is true is not the same as speculating.  

 

The M4M4 requires that you always have 3 people in proximity to maintain maximum DPS with the SAARE.  While your statements regarding the PPA (in bold) are true, you should know that the main advantage of using the Incinerator is being able to spam the large SAARE indefinitely.  The PPA's DPS is negligible compared to the AOE DPS and application of the SAARE.  The large SAARE has the highest AOE DPS out of any splash weapon in the game.  It also has a ridiculous radius, and causes anyone that it hits to generate heat.  It's overpowered, imo.  

 

Additionally, situations wherein you always have 3 people around you are few and far between in any lobby.  The Incin's heat absorption radius isn't big enough to always be soaking heat from 3 people.  

 

While you are more experienced than I am, my point is not invalidated by that fact because there is a point to be made for the M4M4 over the PPY

In conclusion, the M4M4 is ARGUABLY the incins best primary, but that's dependant on it's application.

You can't make a conclusion like that and expect people to simply agree.  If you continue to make statements that are plainly false, expect opposition from people with more experience/knowledge on the subject.  This shouldn't be a surprise to you.  

 

The PPA is the incin's best primary, and it's been proven through-and-through by people with more experience than you.  


Edited by Xacius, 09 May 2015 - 02:44 PM.

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#30
Panzermanathod

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I see threads like these and scoff at the people who go "PPA is super easy just have a rythym". While not completely false, while in a fire fight with allies and enemies giving you heat, sometimes you just can't pay attention to everything.

 

In any case, I use all three Incin weapons. Baby is easiest to use and more general purpose (plus if you get off your special ability Baby won't leave you vulnerable like the other weapons do). Papa is pure offense if you can control it. Don't be like Dark Phoenix.

 

 

Mama is more or less pure support, and isn't particularly good in direct combat.



#31
Nept

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While you are more experienced than I am, my point is not invalidated by that fact because there is a point to be made for the M4M4 over the PPY, but instead of asking you disregarded it completely and you did so on an assumption and you did so in a disrespectful tone . . .  That's been my experience with some of our guys and it's been a talking point in our team because we don't discount things just because it's not the meta. We vigorously test things to develop a firm understanding . . .

In conclusion, the M4M4 is ARGUABLY the incins best primary, but that's dependant on it's application.

 

Just responding quickly to provide some perspective as an outsider to this conversation.  The two top incinerator players are quite clearly Leonhardt and Xacius.  They play for the top Hawken team - a team  which tests, scrims, and practices extensively.  Omniscient doesn't follow the meta.  We are the meta.

 

Haha, sry.  Couldn't resist.  Seriously, though - they're about as expert an opinion as you're going to find on the incinerator.  They've tested the thing extensively, through a variety of scenarios and team compositions, and against the best competition available.  When it comes to high-level play, they always run PPA.

 

Given their experience and expertise, it's extremely unlikely that their assessments have failed to account for the M4M4's strengths.  It's more likely that your assessments aren't adequately backed by your experience.


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#32
Greennovis

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Whyle u were arguing i find out how to use the M4MA and still find PPA total useless piece if sheet 



#33
JeffMagnum

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Just responding quickly to provide some perspective as an outsider to this conversation.  The two top incinerator players are quite clearly Leonhardt and Xacius.  They play for the top Hawken team - a team  which tests, scrims, and practices extensively.  Omniscient doesn't follow the meta.  We are the meta.

 

Haha, sry.  Couldn't resist.  Seriously, though - they're about as expert an opinion as you're going to find on the incinerator.  They've tested the thing extensively, through a variety of scenarios and team compositions, and against the best competition available.  When it comes to high-level play, they always run PPA.

 

Given their experience and expertise, it's extremely unlikely that their assessments have failed to account for the M4M4's strengths.  It's more likely that your assessments aren't adequately backed by your experience.

 

nah

 

m4m4 is best they're just bad


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#34
nokari

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Just responding quickly to provide some perspective as an outsider to this conversation.  The two top incinerator players are quite clearly Leonhardt and Xacius.  They play for the top Hawken team - a team  which tests, scrims, and practices extensively.  Omniscient doesn't follow the meta.  We are the meta.

 

Haha, sry.  Couldn't resist.  Seriously, though - they're about as expert an opinion as you're going to find on the incinerator.  They've tested the thing extensively, through a variety of scenarios and team compositions, and against the best competition available.  When it comes to high-level play, they always run PPA.

 

Given their experience and expertise, it's extremely unlikely that their assessments have failed to account for the M4M4's strengths.  It's more likely that your assessments aren't adequately backed by your experience.

 

Also, also!...

 

 

Xacius is Fat.

 

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Edited by nokari, 09 May 2015 - 03:42 PM.

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#35
nokari

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nah

 

m4m4 is best they're just bad

 

Jeff is a mama's boy. Confirmed.


Edited by nokari, 09 May 2015 - 03:44 PM.

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#36
Silverfire

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Whyle u were arguing i find out how to use the M4MA and still find PPA total useless piece if sheet 

 

If you can get the rhythm down, PPA is objectively the best.  Some can't handle it, and that's okay, PPA is a tough beast to handle for many users, as evidenced by a few posters in this thread.  Just that you aren't using the Incinerator to its maximum potential, and that's okay too. Not everyone can be as l33t and handsome as Team Handsome.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And myself of course.


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#37
BaronSaturday

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While I understand your frustration, you must also understand that it's equally frustrating to see someone attempting to give advice to players that are struggling, yet giving the wrong advice. While your intentions are good, your actual advice is not.

If you're speculating, then speculate and ask questions. Outright stating something that you think is true is not the same as speculating.  

 

The M4M4 requires that you always have 3 people in proximity to maintain maximum DPS with the SAARE.  While your statements regarding the PPA (in bold) are true, you should know that the main advantage of using the Incinerator is being able to spam the large SAARE indefinitely.  The PPA's DPS is negligible compared to the AOE DPS and application of the SAARE.  The large SAARE has the highest AOE DPS out of any splash weapon in the game.  It also has a ridiculous radius, and causes anyone that it hits to generate heat.  It's overpowered, imo.  

 

Additionally, situations wherein you always have 3 people around you are few and far between in any lobby.  The Incin's heat absorption radius isn't big enough to always be soaking heat from 3 people.  

 

While you are more experienced than I am, my point is not invalidated by that fact because there is a point to be made for the M4M4 over the PPY

In conclusion, the M4M4 is ARGUABLY the incins best primary, but that's dependant on it's application.

You can't make a conclusion like that and expect people to simply agree.  If you continue to make statements that are plainly false, expect opposition from people with more experience/knowledge on the subject.  This shouldn't be a surprise to you.  

 

The PPA is the incin's best primary, and it's been proven through-and-through by people with more experience than you.  

Right.  Like in back in Wrath when prot couldn't PVP because it lacked the raw DPS of Arms/Fury and then 3 seasons in a row world top 3v took a prot warrior?  Just because it's "proven" doesn't make it true.  I remember when people discounted orbs almost entirely for dets and shields and now every build in comp play uses orbs almost exclusively on every mech.  Someone is going to find the thing that makes the M4M4, and then you'll rethink what the word meta means in relation to how things can happen.  I don't concern myself with what the top team is doing except that we might have to find an answer for it.  No one has found an answer for Omni and that should probably say something.  And everyone that fights them uses the same meta builds through and through that Omni uses.  If it isn't working it's high time to find the thing that does.  And before you say it, no, this isn't wow.  Yes the PPA is the meta and for good reason, however, circumstance will dictate both weapons effectiveness period.  I'm not going to argue with either of you anymore because you seem to have some misunderstanding as to what the words "false" and "fact" actually mean and are substituting them for words like "subjective" and "opinion".  But what do I know?  I'm sure you'll respond to this with some great thing about how awesome Omni is, and they are, and how they use a thing, and that's great, but at the end of the day, when the dust settles, Omni won't be topping forever.  Do you know why?  Because someone is going to break convention the way that Stephano did in SCii, or L0stC4use did in CS.  So it is, factually, arguably better than the PPA given it's purpose.

Furthermore, just because you're afraid to break the Meta because that's what Omni uses, doesn't make anything a fact.  I'm glad you run the meta build.  It's a winning strategy.  For now.  And when the new meta comes, and it will, you'll talk about how much experience you have and how that's the new tried and true method to success, but you remember this post because game changers will come as Omni did, and they will put the new meta in order.  Or maybe Omni will develop a new meta, but it will change.  You will see.


Edited by BaronSaturday, 09 May 2015 - 04:04 PM.

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#38
JeffMagnum

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I remember when people discounted orbs almost entirely for dets and shields and now every build in comp play uses orbs almost exclusively on every mech.

 

Items weren't the same then, so this is irrelevant. Shields allowed outgoing fire and were so buggy that they'd frequently take 1k+ damage before popping, so they're not even comparable to the current iteration. Dets were just better in general, plus they complemented the burst-centric meta well. 

 

Someone is going to find the thing that makes the M4M4, and then you'll rethink what the word meta means in relation to how things can happen.

 

Incin gameplay heavily focuses on being able to spam large SAARE shots, and PPA>M4M4 when it comes to keeping that going. That's it. Neither M4M4 nor BBY are even close to good enough weapons by themselves to make up for the heat being lost by not running PPA. 

 

I don't concern myself with what the top team is doing except that we might have to find an answer for it.  No one has found an answer for Omni and that should probably say something.  And everyone that fights them uses the same meta builds through and through that Omni uses.  If it isn't working it's high time to find the thing that does. 

 

With Omni's current roster, they're virtually unbeatable regardless of the meta. There are only a handful of unaffiliated players who can compete on an individual level with people in Omni's comp lineup, and all of them are either clanless or split among a few teams that are far worse overall. The #1, #2, #4, #8, and #10 players by MMR are all members, so unless a huge amount of new talent joins, there's effectively a monopoly on skill. The rest are also good but don't care as much about keeping their ratings up. And I'm not even in the clan; this is just plainly obvious if you have any experience whatsoever playing at the top levels of Hawken. 


Edited by JeffMagnum, 09 May 2015 - 04:38 PM.

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#39
Nept

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Just because it's "proven" doesn't make it true.  I remember when people discounted orbs almost entirely for dets and shields and now every build in comp play uses orbs almost exclusively on every mech. 

 

Have to run, but wanted to address this section.  People never entirely discounted orbs.  Hestoned and the Omni heavies have run them for a long time now.  Perhaps more importantly, the population at large moved away from dets and shields not because of some attitudinal shift, but because dets and shields were nerfed significantly.


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#40
Nept

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With Omni's current roster . . .  there's effectively a monopoly on handsome.

 

FTFY






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