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The WRONG way to motivate a new player

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#41
angryhampster

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#42
Pleasure_Mortar

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thanks for sharing xD


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#43
_incitatus

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On the subject of profanity in HKTS, why not have a "clean channel" available and labeled as such? 

 

Enforcing it would be the hard part I guess, but might be worth a try anyway...



#44
harmless_kittens

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I don't think a game with bloody bodyparts would be teen rated anyway.

But the OP made it pretty clear that teen rated games are a big nono.

Sorry for the confusion.  MOST Teen rated games are off our list, because of profanity, blood/gore, or sexual content.  Hawken, other than chat (occasionally), has none of those.  But for a game rated "Mature" (the next step up I think), we have not yet found even one that allowed us to play it in good conscience.  And like I said, this is sad, because I think most of us would agree that games don't really "need" that stuff in order to be good.



#45
HoneyBoomBoom

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Hi Kittens!

 

To the issues you brought up, it is (unfortunately) the nature of things.  But as you've already experienced, there are those of us that try to nurture the player base and welcome new players!  I'm a bit protective when it comes to people badmouthing other players, no matter what.  It's really the only thing in Hawken that REALLY gets me really mad.  We're all here to play a game and have some fun.  People shouldn't ruin that for others.  If someone joined a TDM match, it's the gamble they take that not everyone of those six players is going to be a 2000+ mmr player.  If they want full control of how they finish a match, they should go play DM. No one else to blame there though when they lose, and I guess it's easier to point fingers instead of TOWs for some folks.  Don't let them discourage you though!  They are not the majority.

 
Also... I would second the idea of at least giving the TS a try.  As a female gamer, I was VERY reluctant to jump on TS.  While most of the players I chatted with in game seemed decent enough, most of them assumed I was a guy which was preferable to having unfamiliar folks know otherwise and harass me.  So joining TS, unless I said nothing at all, would certainly mean the jig was up.

 

But I did it.  My first experience was... interesting.  I happened to join during War Wednesday (a big event, if you weren't aware), and was apparently the only female on TS (at least that was speaking).  I was initially met with some surprised reactions along with a couple rather crude responses.  Then I was surprised by what came next.  Instead of the majority joining in on the "boys will be boys" behavior, there was actually a call for people to be respectful and to not "scare [me] away".  

 

I went on to have a fantastically fun evening!  Hawken is a wholly different game with TS, and I'm really glad that I got to know the community better.  I can't recall who said it above me here, but it's really true that you will find only the best of the community in TS on non-event days.  I think even on event days it's the same, just that there are so many of us who are very passionate about the game and are just having a blast, so words sometimes slip in the excitement.  That said, I, for one, have a really foul mouth but I'm not sure that anyone on TS could attest to that.  We generally keep it pretty clean.  Many of our player base are parents as well, so they're used to curbing their language for their own kids anyway.

 

Try it yourself with a headset and see if it's tame enough in your own opinion.  I think you'll be surprised.  And, if you opt to have your son join us too (which would be AWESOME btw), you could always jump in ahead of him and let the room know that young ears will be joining the TS.

 

See you on the battlefield!  GLHF!


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#46
Pleasure_Mortar

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Sorry for the confusion.  MOST Teen rated games are off our list, because of profanity, blood/gore, or sexual content.  Hawken, other than chat (occasionally), has none of those.  But for a game rated "Mature" (the next step up I think), we have not yet found even one that allowed us to play it in good conscience.  And like I said, this is sad, because I think most of us would agree that games don't really "need" that stuff in order to be good.

There are games that don't need that stuff and there are games that have it all and they wouldn't be nearly as good, or even worth playing, without it.


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#47
Amidatelion

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On the subject of profanity in HKTS, why not have a "clean channel" available and labeled as such? 

 

Enforcing it would be the hard part I guess, but might be worth a try anyway...

 

Nope.



#48
_incitatus

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Nope.

 

Why not?


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#49
Amidatelion

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Why not?

 

More channel clutter, zero willingness to police it, PTSD (Post-TAW Swearing Disorder).

 

Look, you're an admin, you wanna take this on, you are more than welcome to do it. But you own it.


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#50
_incitatus

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More channel clutter, zero willingness to police it, PTSD (Post-TAW Swearing Disorder).

 

Look, you're an admin, you wanna take this on, you are more than welcome to do it. But you own it.

 

 

Lol, I keep forgetting that I'm an admin.  I think it wouldn't hurt to have a PG rated channel.  But I also I think it would be near impossible to police, so we'd have to rely on people to be respectful.  And for the most part, the people in HKTS are a well behaved.  So, I'll give it a shot for the fuzzy bunny of it.


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#51
angryhampster

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thanks for sharing xD

 

 

 

your welcome.  don't forget to visit  japan



#52
Pleasure_Mortar

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your welcome.  don't forget to visit  japan

 

I'm so going to do this. Not because of the video, but I'm really fascinated by their culture.



#53
claisolais

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BACK to the main topic:

 

Look, I'm a team guy, my personal 1v1 skill is...not good. On the other hand, my team affects me. (Obviously we are not talking Death Matches.)

 

Now that we brought the game to the TEAM level (DON'T say no unless you play DeathMatch only.), I must address that some of those issue are REAL, based on your action that might affecting OTHER PLAYERs.

 

Let's put it in extreme case: Player refuse to fighting the match and walking around at base, it's not about him anymore, its affecting entire team.

 

SEE? I've seen a Rocketeer in turret mode moving around slowly and got killed dozens of times with getting single kills. His teammates hated him, guess what he replied? "Report me."

Guess you don't want be like this, you want to be good, at least not too bad, correct?

Without your threads asking for help? Things would have been different. *Nothing good*

 

Even it happens in Coop Bot Destruction mode or Coop TDM mode. Complain? single ppl out? sarcasm? Sadly I do such of things, not because I feel happy, but because those ppl might have already affecting my game experience, and they DON'T CARE.

 

See I know I am selfish sometimes, but ppl enter the game are not for teaching new people or helping them to get better, they want to play their game.

 

And for enemy team? You are a walking chance, just (sometimes) like the feeders (Not saying you are, since I haven't played with you in PVP, hopefully not anytime soon) they have/ had on their team.

Scenario 1:  The enemy team have 2 feeders, and your team have one, they will surely try to level the difference.

Scenario 2:  Hey it's the guy got your team lost, he is on the other team! Revenge time.

Scenario 3:  Leave that enemy noob? Okay..but hey he's chasing and shooting at me! / In the middle of hard fights(pretty balanced), the noob jumped out from nowhere(maybe just lucky) and got you. 

 

Like a student without experience entering society? The student WILL have his/her lessons.

 

Having no new-player only server or teaching-lessons server is THE WRONG WAY to motivate new players. 

 

Nothing personal, I have been the victim of new players doing their own things, donno your cases, but they might not be all wrong.

Even with high-tier players, I've been victim because they play DM in my TEAM.


Edited by claisolais, 10 February 2016 - 07:58 AM.

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#54
harmless_kittens

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You are correct that there needs to be a group training location (or is there one and I have missed it?).  I think Map Explore  or even the basic training location would be fine for this.

 

As an example, an in-game friend wanted to "train me" in some combat and movement tactics.  We first went to TDM.  That was a mistake, as the enemies don't know we're just training, and our team-mates are suffering.  So we went to Co-Op TDM instead.  This did work better, as if you stay back at base you will be left alone by the bots.  But there is still the issue of struggling team-mates (although, Really?  It's bots.  Even I can beat the bots.).  Anyway, it still felt like there should have been a better way for someone to bring a new player with them and show them some things, even if with other players present, if weapons could be set to "no damage" or something like that.  

 

How have you guys solved the "showing someone how to play" issue?  If all we do is throw them straight from Training into DM or TDM, I'm thinking a lot of inexperienced people will get discouraged and quit.  Imagine instead a safe zone that someone could go into to train, and Veterans could go in there to greet them and show them their best "tricks".


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#55
Amidatelion

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Fight Club servers. The password is firstrule

 

People are usually understanding about them. If you keep getting interrupted, ask around for a private server. There are a few on hand willing to help out, TDM most notably.



#56
DallasCreeper

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You are correct that there needs to be a group training location (or is there one and I have missed it?).  I think Map Explore  or even the basic training location would be fine for this.

 

As an example, an in-game friend wanted to "train me" in some combat and movement tactics.  We first went to TDM.  That was a mistake, as the enemies don't know we're just training, and our team-mates are suffering.  So we went to Co-Op TDM instead.  This did work better, as if you stay back at base you will be left alone by the bots.  But there is still the issue of struggling team-mates (although, Really?  It's bots.  Even I can beat the bots.).  Anyway, it still felt like there should have been a better way for someone to bring a new player with them and show them some things, even if with other players present, if weapons could be set to "no damage" or something like that.  

 

How have you guys solved the "showing someone how to play" issue?  If all we do is throw them straight from Training into DM or TDM, I'm thinking a lot of inexperienced people will get discouraged and quit.  Imagine instead a safe zone that someone could go into to train, and Veterans could go in there to greet them and show them their best "tricks".

This could probably be done on a Clan's private server with their permission/help.


 

Spoiler

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#57
EM1O

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 PTSD (Post-TAW Swearing Disorder).

Immediate nasal Pepsi spew upon seeing this.

Guilty...

:laugh:


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#58
claisolais

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You are correct that there needs to be a group training location (or is there one and I have missed it?).  I think Map Explore  or even the basic training location would be fine for this.

 

As an example, an in-game friend wanted to "train me" in some combat and movement tactics.  We first went to TDM.  That was a mistake, as the enemies don't know we're just training, and our team-mates are suffering.  So we went to Co-Op TDM instead.  This did work better, as if you stay back at base you will be left alone by the bots.  But there is still the issue of struggling team-mates (although, Really?  It's bots.  Even I can beat the bots.).  Anyway, it still felt like there should have been a better way for someone to bring a new player with them and show them some things, even if with other players present, if weapons could be set to "no damage" or something like that.  

 

How have you guys solved the "showing someone how to play" issue?  If all we do is throw them straight from Training into DM or TDM, I'm thinking a lot of inexperienced people will get discouraged and quit.  Imagine instead a safe zone that someone could go into to train, and Veterans could go in there to greet them and show them their best "tricks".

Actually, I could also use some more lessons... I have been playing this game for quite a long time, but I only had few chances to learn something, half of my skills were learned from playing random Coop Bot Destruction modes...surviving, CQC, 1v1, predict movements, etc.

I had about 5 personal lessons, actually all of them was because me and the other guy were the only ppl left in the server. :I 

I learned some more by watching videos and participate in fights that are slightly higher than my skill level.

I love coop modes, they are the best ground for me to practice something. 

  For example coop TDM, I have plenty time to observe other people's action, and try it out (Don't be afraid of being killed, its coop TDM!),and  if I don't  understand, I will ask---I just had a lesson regarding how to aim Breacher yesterday, or maybe the day before yesterday.

 

My aiming sux, I sometimes play like a stupid bunny, but I found my way to mmr 2500, at least it means something. :)

 

Not saying my path of learning is the best one, but you might wanna try some of those. GL.

 

And I hope I typed English correctly.


Edited by claisolais, 10 February 2016 - 02:18 PM.

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#59
DallasCreeper

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And I hope I typed English correctly.

I've seen bad English, this isn't remotely close


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Spoiler

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Ridding the world of evil, one Berzerker at a time.


#60
6ixxer

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+1 for fightclub servers for training. Shame there isn't even a basic texture on the walls.

 

@claisolais: My aim/tracking improved when I changed reticule to circle for primary and 3 little circles for secondary.

The normal one kept getting lost in screen clutter. I'm not a high MMR, but that is held back somewhat by the low population in Oceanic servers and fuzzy bunny ping to Asia. I found last night that I get better ping to Chicago so I'm gona start playing US and see if my MMR increases there.

 

I learn better by facing 2000+ MMR pilots but my MMR doesn't improve until I can take that learning into a 3 star match and try to MVP.

I actually don't want my MMR to go up too much until we get improved local population.


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#61
claisolais

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+1 for fightclub servers for training. Shame there isn't even a basic texture on the walls.

 

@claisolais: My aim/tracking improved when I changed reticule to circle for primary and 3 little circles for secondary.

The normal one kept getting lost in screen clutter. I'm not a high MMR, but that is held back somewhat by the low population in Oceanic servers and fuzzy bunny ping to Asia. I found last night that I get better ping to Chicago so I'm gona start playing US and see if my MMR increases there.

 

I learn better by facing 2000+ MMR pilots but my MMR doesn't improve until I can take that learning into a 3 star match and try to MVP.

I actually don't want my MMR to go up too much until we get improved local population.

I have only the basic circle on everything, both Jeff and Silent_ are using the same setting. I've nvr tried 3 dots, they might be too distracting.  

My aiming issue is actually my personal problem, that I got nervous super easily...loose my head, hands got out of control sort of things. I something think it's one major side-effect of my lack of confidence. :I

Use different mechs and take them into different level of fights, every experience you gained will be beneficial, you don't need a 3-stat server to learn things :)

 

But...ping issue is darn annoying, I spent my last summer in Asia, gladly I had Tokyo servers, but overall, it was a Terrible experience...NA servers are the best, if your ping are not higher than 300, it is fine. 

Don't care about mmr, just play games, have fun. Even though your ping might be a setback, I guess...playing a little defensively or sneaky should be fine. :)


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#62
CounterlogicMan

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Almost as metal as Hawken.

 

I am glad someone mentioned TAW, because they are exactly the environment OP and his son would thrive in. If only they still had a Hawken battalion...


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#63
DonCornelius

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My aiming issue is actually my personal problem, that I got nervous super easily...loose my head, hands got out of control sort of things. I something think it's one major side-effect of my lack of confidence. 

 

 

Something I have learned as I've gotten older. Don't let your emotions control your actions. Rage and frustration degrade your physical and mental performance in game. Too much adrenaline makes your hand shaky and ruins your aim. Frustration leads to loss of hope and one stops trying. Its not something you can just tell to someone. Every person must learn to achieve tranquility in their own time, in their own way. This knowlage can also be applied to reallife situations. Don't worry about winning or losing. If in your mind the ultimate objective of the game is fun, over winning, then you can always achieve your objective with a positive frame of mind.

 

Stay positive. Remain calm. Do not give up. Have fun.


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#64
claisolais

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Something I have learned as I've gotten older. Don't let your emotions control your actions. Rage and frustration degrade your physical and mental performance in game. Too much adrenaline makes your hand shaky and ruins your aim. Frustration leads to loss of hope and one stops trying. Its not something you can just tell to someone. Every person must learn to achieve tranquility in their own time, in their own way. This knowlage can also be applied to reallife situations. Don't worry about winning or losing. If in your mind the ultimate objective of the game is fun, over winning, then you can always achieve your objective with a positive frame of mind.

 

Stay positive. Remain calm. Do not give up. Have fun.

2400 hrs in total, I think I know what my problem is...after all it's generally in my life :I I feel it when speaking, does matter foreign language or not, I keep asking "come again?" or being asked, because of the same problem I have. Lack of confident and..not paying 100% attention for long time cos I've entered a new level of laziness.

 

And I thought speak it out might helps :/


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#65
angryhampster

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Almost as metal as Hawken.

 

I am glad someone mentioned TAW, because they are exactly the environment OP and his son would thrive in. If only they still had a Hawken battalion...

 

 

blow this song up in your room, lock your doors so you're the only one in it, and dance to it.......  that's all i'm saying.... i haven't done it, but ya know, it's something to do if you ever feel like doing it.

 


Edited by angryhampster, 11 February 2016 - 12:55 PM.


#66
6ixxer

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Use different mechs and take them into different level of fights, every experience you gained will be beneficial, you don't need a 3-stat server to learn things :)
 
But...ping issue is darn annoying, I spent my last summer in Asia, gladly I had Tokyo servers, but overall, it was a Terrible experience...NA servers are the best, if your ping are not higher than 300, it is fine. 
Don't care about mmr, just play games, have fun. Even though your ping might be a setback, I guess...playing a little defensively or sneaky should be fine. :)

I don't look for 3 star to learn, I look for those to try and increase MMR only. I only aim to be within the range where I am in fitness ranges for Aus matches which are typicaly 2000-2100 lobby (so I'm aiming to keep around 1700-1750). I play one match in asia and I lose 30MMR+ as I can't hit anything with 360-440 ping. It takes a fair bit of effort to get it back near 1700 again.

I learn from 2K+ players. I don't get butthurt when I get killed, I analyse my weaknesses and usually it is that I missed shots by not watching my enemies dodges, or I get myself out of position and am overwhelmed by 2+ of the opposite team.

360+ to Singapore (WTF?)
There is some major bad hop in Singapore. Tests show I can get the first hop to Singapore OK then it goes to fuzzy bunny.
230 to Chicago.
Guess where I'm playing from now on.

As I said, I only care a little about MMR, just to keep within server browser fitness range on my local region. I understand that it is a broken metric. I'm hoping the not-quite-so-bad ping to Chicago will help. At least I don't hand the enemy easy kills there. Would love to see enough regular players in Oceanic again for a couple of mostly full servers.

Edited by 6ixxer, 16 February 2016 - 08:44 PM.


#67
Gyrocopter

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Am I the one person in this thread who hasn't been haccused?

 

 

Am I bad?

 

:'(

 

lol



#68
6ixxer

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I'm too fuzzy bunny to be haccused....
If I could play with low ping maybe...
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#69
CoshCaust

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<lots_of_words>

I'm not going to reply to individual points because plenty of people already have, and probably covered the bases.

But I want to offer up any specific help you might want. I appreciate your attitude but recognize you and your son are likely priority targets for trolls, simply by publicly expressing concern for trolls- and I want to do what I can to counteract their poisonous behaviour.

Point being, I'd be happy to offer advice/tips/help on any level/aspect of play in Hawken to you or your son. I'm...deep into this game to say the least, and know what I'm doing quite well; and I really enjoy helping, as I adore Hawken and want to do whatever I can to help it thrive.

My in-game names are CosineHyperbolic and CoshCaust if interested.

 

I'm sorry you're dealing with some friction in this game, but I'm happy you're not giving up on it.

Have fun and see you in-game!


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#70
EVO_Cor

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A lot those points you listed, many of them are simple internet gaming rules.

 

Say ignoring bad feedback, preventing tilting.

 

It's a game after all, and don't take people on the internet too seriously.

Doyoualsohappentobeeasilytriggered?



#71
Dew

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I WOULD LOVE TO MAKE YOUR ACQUAINTANCE IN-GAME AND SERVE YOU A STEAMING HELPING OF INTERNET.


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#72
ATX22

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I WOULD LOVE TO MAKE YOUR ACQUAINTANCE IN-GAME AND SERVE YOU A STEAMING HELPING OF INTERNET.

 

Should they be afraid?  I'm leaning towards them needing to be afraid.  :teehee:



#73
dxdy

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1) TELL ME WHAT TO DO.  Not "offer advice", but instead say "Kittens, DO this", as if I'm somehow accountable to you.  I don't have time for this, and I will leave a battle where it happens.

Stay away from the Siege mode, because when I say "AA" or "STAY IN THE SQUARE YOU FOOL", that's exactly what you are supposed to do; doing anything else usually (unless you are really good, or have some intel that would allow you e.g. easily intercept enemy carrier) simply does harm to the team.


Edited by dxdy, 24 February 2016 - 03:35 PM.

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#74
The_Silencer

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Something I'd like to mention is that when you play with -not necessarily nor fully new pilots here- players who play too defensively as a basis during Siege / MA then.. well.. here you got it.. you may repeat yourself to the saciety suggesting, indicating, even yelling at them if you wish to get in the AA... they simply won't. Easy as that.

 

However..

 

Maybe they do not know that getting into the AA, not only conquers it to launch its missiles to the enemy stuff, but also (with a max of 3 pilots into the AA) the missiles will cause more damage too.

 

Maybe those too defensive players do not know that they gain extra XP when killing enemy mechs within the AA nor on that they gain XP as well when got killed performing into the AA. Although when any of these cases occurs then big blue letters are rendered on everyone's HUD, IIRC.. ;) Anyway..

 

Maybe turns out that they do not understand that going alone -ergo not paying attention to their radar- and getting into the AA ALONE (yes again :P) will, most of the times, imply bad consequences... even fustration and even even rage quits .. to mention some. Or just bad mood..

 

That's why I mentioned having you guy trying to suggest actions to them in order to have them performing better and accomplishing the game mode goals better.

 

And additionally, I'm ending btw.., game tips should be always checked on in the settings. Or that's already checked on by default?

 

Just my 2cents ++


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The difference between theory and practice is smaller in theory than it is in practice.


#75
StubbornPuppet

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^I've always chalked it up to a combination of fear and bad habits learned from other games.  If a player is coming from a game and a mindset of "KDR is everything... I must not die.", then they are going to instinctively avoid the AA.  Their thought: "Every time I go into the AA, I get killed... so I'm staying back."

 

Unfortunately, having even one player on a team who is timid about going into the objectives on Hawken is a recipe for loss.  These people are going to have to play a whole lot more Siege to get them out of that old mindset - to learn that "holding the AA is more important than my KDR." and "Sometimes I must be willing to sacrifice my life in order to help kill a particular player that is keeping us from capturing this thing."


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To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#76
ATX22

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^I've always chalked it up to a combination of fear and bad habits learned from other games.  If a player is coming from a game and a mindset of "KDR is everything... I must not die.", then they are going to instinctively avoid the AA.  Their thought: "Every time I go into the AA, I get killed... so I'm staying back."

 

Unfortunately, having even one player on a team who is timid about going into the objectives on Hawken is a recipe for loss.  These people are going to have to play a whole lot more Siege to get them out of that old mindset - to learn that "holding the AA is more important than my KDR." and "Sometimes I must be willing to sacrifice my life in order to help kill a particular player that is keeping us from capturing this thing."

 

Good old Hawken siege and MA game modes can be counter intuitive to newer players who want to do anything BUT CQC.  Hanging back and trying to play the role of sniper is usually bad, wandering around the map trying to catch an enemy mech by surprise is bad, pulling back from AA to heal is bad, doing anything but acting as a meat shield on an arbitrary spot on the map to keep more mechs of your team on that spot than the  other team is bad.  And when you have try-hards utilizing this fixed-point of combat with Hawken's movement mechanics, heat limited only weapons, and healing mechanics new players are set up for high levels of frustration in this game.

 

Either do as you're told and die repeatedly (may still get yelled at) or don't and be yelled at by some keyboard commando who will demand that you contribute your health pool and firepower to the death-ball they're trying to maintain at the flag.. I mean AA.



#77
Superkamikazee

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I take it OP's never played CS: GO. By comparison, Hawken is the equivalent of everyone sitting together and singing kumbaya.


Edited by Superkamikazee, 26 February 2016 - 05:38 AM.

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No crew


#78
coldform

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I take it OP's never played CS: GO. By comparison, Hawken is the equivalent of everyone sitting together and singing kumbaya.


By comparison, Galactic Civilizations 3 is a much better game than CS:GO
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I like going against the best of any game I play. Helps you in the long run n motivates u to do more. Always room for improvement not failure

z6aJAX7.png?1

 

czerofive-Today at 2:22 AM > got banned from playing lazertag - I used a knife to conserve ammo

FIRST OFF WHAT THE FUZZ IS A "SHILL"


#79
ATX22

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I take it OP's never played CS: GO. By comparison, Hawken is the equivalent of everyone sitting together and singing kumbaya.

 

Wait, is CS:GO worse than the original CS?  Or the same "DEFUSE THE $(%*$* BOMB YOU (%$)$%( ($)$%( PIECE of $)(%$(%)!!! O*$%)$*!"?  Sometimes before.. sometimes after some idiot flash-bangs his/her entire team.



#80
Amidatelion

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Wait, is CS:GO worse than the original CS?  Or the same "DEFUSE THE $(%*$* BOMB YOU (%$)$%( ($)$%( PIECE of $)(%$(%)!!! O*$%)$*!"?  Sometimes before.. sometimes after some idiot flash-bangs his/her entire team.

CS:GO is relatively slightly more popular than 1.6 at its peak and massively more than CS:S. 

 

Make of that what you will.






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