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#1
BRiDGEb

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Has anyone noticed the rather drastic decline in the number of people playing Hawken these past few weeks. As of the time I'm posting this, there are 329 people playing Hawken. At the same time 3 weeks ago there were upwards of 600. That's almost a 50% DECLINE in player numbers!

 

Where the hell did all those players go? Hawken is back to the number of players it had BEFORE it was bought by Reloaded.

 

Call me paranoid, but if this keeps up for long enough I fear for the future of Hawken again. A big, big thing that needs to be focused on right now is NEW PLAYER RETENTION, because these new players are the future of Hawken, and I feel that both the new devs and the community need to take steps to improve the situation. It doesn't matter if the core community stick with the game through thick and thin, but players who have not invested so much time and effort into the game won't be as willing to fork out money for a game they don't like.

 

FEEL FREE TO LEAVE ANY CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM OR SUGGESTIONS

 

That being said, I think a good place to start would be what is driving the new players away. There are 3 main problems that need to be addressed:

 

1) Lack of understanding: A major complaint of almost all new players I've met, heard, or vaguely seen is that there is a severe lack of understanding among new recruits on topics that any seasoned player would mock you for not knowing.

 

For example, maneuvers!: L dodging, R dodging, feint dodging, Diagonal dodging, wave dodging, When and where to bunny hop, etc. Everyone should be able to learn all these and more from the get go, not by having to go to forums or meeting a player to teach you. This will vastly increase the number of skills that players can learn and increase the overall skill of the game.

 

HOW TO PLAY DIFFERENT GAME MODES! This  one is especially important, especially in siege mode because the vast majority of player have no idea why you have to collect EU, no sense of timing or strategy to launching ships, no idea why getting in the AA is so important and then get pissed off when they lose over and over again. This drives people away in droves from a really fun and competitive game mode. And before anyone says it, IN GAME POPUPS ARE NOT ENOUGH TO TEACH PLAYERS HOW TO PLAY! Even with them enabled, I completely ignored them and then turned them off because they were annoying, and I can guarantee hundred of other people did the same. There needs to be a proper tutorial for all the game modes!

 

New players need to have access to better tutorials and education to game mechanics, simple as that. It's not just because it's nice, but because it's necessary.

 

2) Hackers, Smurfs and Trolls. Although fundamentally different, all three of these have the exact same effect and are relatively self explanatory. They drive players away from the game because it: A) irritates/angers them, b) Gives then a negative impression of the game. 

 

Hackers drive players away for the simple reason that they are cheating, and it makes them think that cheating is either the way to win or it gives them a bad impression and they leave.

 

Smurfs have the same effect. If you ware a brand new player and some guy who is clearly leagues better than you kicks your ass in you first hour or two of playing, then it would make you not want to play anymore unless you are very persistent.

 

Trolls, they troll, people get angry and leave, 'nuff said.

 

In order to fix this there NEEDS to be an anti cheat system in place, and we need it asap. Removing the cheaters and hackers would remove a large chunk of the problem.

 

However, hacking is only part of the problem. Not only do we need anti cheating, but there needs to be a shift in the community's attitude towards smurfing and trolling. People generally accept smurfs because they sympathize with the "uber leet" players, many of whom I've met or played with, because they can't play any matches on a regular basis. While this is understandable, they also need to recognize that going into matches with brand new players in disguise is not helping the game that they clearly love to play. it's scaring away players, and that is directly affecting the player retention of Hawken. The 2200+ mmr range of players accounts for less than 5% of the population. This is a huge minority of the players, and we can't keep catering to wants of the minority over the needs of the majority.

 

3) The progression system needs a revamp, pronto. Reaching player rank 30 is practically a joke at this point in Hawken's lifespan, and it is a highly inaccurate representation of skill and time played. A brand new player can be at player rank 30 within 15-30 hours of playing, which is not nearly enough. If Hawken is going to have a level based system, the level cap needs to be raised to a  ridiculously high level like 500. It gives players a goal to go for and it constantly rewards players for playing with the level system. When I first started playing Hawken, I was so excited every time I ranked up because I had a goal to reach for and I was rewarded for it with items and holograms. It encouraged me to play the game for that extra hour to level up again.

 

And horizontal progression needs to be a thing, it provides even more incentive to play the game and rewards players.

 

IF YOU HAVE ANY KIND OF CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM OR SUGGESTIONS FEEL FREE TO LEAVE THEM. IF YOU ONLY LEAVE DESTRUCTIVE CRITICISM OR NASTY COMMENTS, YOU ARE ONLY SHOWING TAHT THERE NEEDS TO BE A SHIFT IN THE COMMUNITY'S ATTITUDE TOWARDS CHANGE AND OPENESS.


Edited by BRiDGEb, 07 May 2015 - 11:54 PM.

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#2
reVelske

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Urgh.

 

Look, this is an early access game that has JUST came out of the ded thanks to a new dev team and publisher, give it time. As they've mentioned on several occasions already, they NEED time to dig through and understand the game codes before they can produce any significant content update, as such there will inevitably be player retention issues, that's something we just have to live with, but as I've said in another thread, if this game and its community can survive through almost a year of ded devs and ded forum, it can survive few months of active devs getting fuzzy bunny done.

 

I don't see a point in the "lack of understanding" issue, there will inevitably be a lack of understanding in any game at the start followed by a short learning period, people don't need to be spoonfed, the core mechanics are not THAT much more complicated than any other FPS. Besides, there is already a very good in-game gameplay tutorial which is more than sufficient, new players don't NEED to move and dodge like the pro from the get go.

 

Despite there already is a basic "walkthrough" (if you can call it that) for Siege, I do believe there needs to be a more thorough tutorial enforced on new players for that particular mode.


Edited by reVelske, 08 May 2015 - 12:14 AM.

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#3
ROBOT120807

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I'm in college and finals are this week. 
I'm sure a lot of other players are in various universities around the US also going through a similar schedule that's cutting into their gaming time. 

 

long story short, real life is getting in the way for a lot of people at once. 

 

[edit]
I have gotten my roommates to start playing. So far they're liking it a lot and have had some good things to say about the community/their attitude towards new players.
I think everyone realizes how important it is to get people playing this game, myself included. People are always as helpful as possible when it becomes known that someone is new to the game. People are always gonna rage at newbies sometimes (especially siege, holy hell) but overall it's pretty rare for someone to be toxic to the point of driving someone out of the game. 

 

Remember, if you run into someone that's having a tough time figuring out how to play (like flat out getting stomped in a server) point them towards the Co-OP v AI mode so they can get a little more familiar with the game mechanics before going against real players. 


Edited by ROBOT120807, 08 May 2015 - 01:28 AM.

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#4
Grollourdo

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I agree with a bit of both of you
(Didn't read all fully)

It is true that we should have a big more patience but also we should suggest things for the future .

Of course we need patience we are getting back on out feet! Tho if we keep giving that excuse for a long period it will eventually "expire"

We should think for the future so we could then after the new devs are done with the start up stuff, we could be at the minimum ready!

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#5
Grollourdo

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I'm in college and finals are this week. 
I'm sure a lot of other players are in various universities around the US also going through a similar schedule that's cutting into their gaming time. 
 
long story short, real life is getting in the way for a lot of people at once.


Omg soooo true I'm getting all my exams to get into high school! XD
(French schools dont count 9th grade as high school.... Lol going in 10th grade!!!! XD)

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#6
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

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The fact that pretty much everything in Hawken is being a paywall or unlock wall contributes to the problem. It only takes one look at the price of the items and internals to realize how desperate Hawken is. It is a cringe worthy sight that also discourages players from staying with Hawken.
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Thank you for your time,

 

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#7
BaronSaturday

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I am all about playing with new players. Aside from that, I'd like to note that CapnJosh has noted that the game was immediately sustainable the moment they moved the product. That also implies it was profitable for the investors and Reloaded/G1. Really, they only have to satiate the people here now. While that's unacceptable, that is the case. In the end, we need not fear that HAWKEN will be going anywhere soon. Which is good because it means there's time to get things done deliberately, sequentially, and correctly.

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#8
Grollourdo

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Very good point.

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(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy bunny into
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And if you dont .... 

 

bloody_keyboard.gif    <-------------- ME and Bunny
 
 
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#9
CrimsonKaim

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And once again, I will point out that players are impatient. And once again, I want to say, that cheering up the old devs had no fuc*ing influence on the future of Hawken. 

 

And once again, we need content, updates, bug fixes and no empty promises from Hughes/ADH or countless excuses.

 

However, Hughes was right about one thing:

 

"If you visit a restaurant and give up your order, you expect that your food is delivered in time. Even though the kitchen is burning and about to explode, the customer will expect his food to be dilivered with a decent quality in time. The customer will not care about what is happening in the kitchen, he only cares about his food for which he paid for to be delivered in time with a decent quality."

 

Quote not 1:1 but the key idea is the same.

 

Thing is, that's how it is like, players who are not loving Hawken will just move on as they get dissappointed. I can tell you that everyone I wanted to show Hawken said the following:

 

"Yes, it looks nice, feels awesome and is cool overall but ... it is still boring [...] as it is always the same."

 

With 'the same' they mean different stuff, however, everyone agreed on being stomped and having a dumb team isn't fun. 

I am no developer, but facts are facts.

And once again, Hawken will fail one more time, if nothing is done "in time with a decent quality."


Edited by FakeName, 08 May 2015 - 04:35 AM.

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#10
reVelske

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Well too darn bad, the new devs factually CAN'T pull content out of their arses and present them to you on a silver bloody platter right this bloody moment regardless of how many times you'd like to complain about the matter like a broken record, so please kindly hide back into your hole and wait patiently for that inexorable end of Hawken, of which you preach so feverishly, leave the rest of us to enjoy our supposedly borrowed time in this doomed game.


Edited by reVelske, 08 May 2015 - 04:41 AM.

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#11
DerMax

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Decline? Are you living in a parallel universe? The userbase increased 58% in April.


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#12
CrimsonKaim

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Decline? Are you living in a parallel universe? The userbase increased 58% in April.

 

https://steamdb.info.../271290/graphs/

 

http://steamcharts.com/app/271290

 

 

He is looking at the most recent numbers which indeed show a difference. Look at the last weekend and the previous one. Let's see what this weekend will do.


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#13
Leonhardt

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https://steamdb.info.../271290/graphs/

http://steamcharts.com/app/271290


He is looking at the most recent numbers which indeed show a difference. Look at the last weekend and the previous one. Let's see what this weekend will do.


Last weekend was a double xp/hc weekend. Plus finals week this week and maybe a sale at Walmart. Until the decline is constant freaking out isn't gonna do anything.
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#14
BluetoothBoy

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Guys, the biggest reason behind the "declines" you're seeing is people either a) coming back to the game for a bit, and then stopping, or b) new players joining, and then deciding the game is not for them. The reason why? Because a few weeks/a month ago, the game was being hyped up. It had been revived! There were new posts on Facebook! It was like Christmas morning!

 

Of course that sort of thing is going to fade. I predict (and I rarely predict anything) that it will drop down to slightly higher than it was before April, and stay there for awhile.


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#15
dorobo

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Well summer is coming.

One Cammo and a chassis won't do for the content but give them time.

All the points that OP mentioned are valid in a way but they are just shadows and mirros.. concentrating on that would be a mistake.

Every normal person will learn the game eventually that is I even dare to say a fun part of the process cause all of this stuff fresh and new to you as you go in to this new game. Don't even start about hackers and smurfs.. that is not the reason people leave.

 

I would place my bets on CORE experience - make that polished deep and worthwhile. 


Edited by dorobo, 08 May 2015 - 06:56 AM.


#16
Jelooboi

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The real problem here is a lack of singleplayer mode AND the complete lack of advertising. The dumb 2400+ players have been arguing about tiny "issues" like the weapons raise delay just to benefit their own selfish ideals. Don't listen to those goys. 
Every complete game should have a singleplayer mode of some kind, and the only reason I even found this game is not because I stumbled upon it, but saw the game as an promotional advertisement when I was installing Nvidia drivers for my GTX680 I had just bought at the time. 

We need a singleplayer mode and advertising. 


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#17
reVelske

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Because every iteration of Counter Strike and Team Fortress had a single player. Because every Call of Duty, Battlefield and Medal of Honor had such brilliant and engaging single player. So, of course, EVERY COMPLETE GAME SHOULD HAVE A SINGLE PLAYER OF SOME KIND, BECAUSE REASONS.

 

Deviating from the genre, there's also stellar games like DOTA2 and LoL that are famous for their wonderful must-play single player modes.

 

Seriousness aside, this game is nowhere near ready for full release, advertising it now would be a complete and utter waste of potential players' time and would only serve to deplete their level of interest in the game further down the line. THIS IS IN EARLY ACCESS with NO estimated time of release, please don't forget that.


Edited by reVelske, 08 May 2015 - 08:49 AM.


#18
BIsmuthZornisse

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I wouldn't mind a single player bot destruction and other modes against bots, or at least tdm.

 

But the Multiplayer stuff should take precedence here. Especially balancing things, but i don't know when they can start working on the weapon codes to change stats/behavior.


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I have a lot of ideas and would like some feedback on them:

Suggestions for fixing things:

https://community.pl...of-suggestions/

Suggestions for new things:

https://community.pl...for-new-things/


#19
(Unknown)1590d2c747fabd

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I wouldn't mind a single player bot destruction and other modes against bots <SNIP>

 

^^^THIS^^^

 

The ability for someone to go off into a corner and practice against bots without getting curb-stomped will do a lot for new players. Throw in better "real world" based tutorials (in game or YouTube or community) and you have a winning combination for new players.

 

I mean, think about it:

 

You are a new player, you are in a game and you see a tiny little bug-like mech hopping and flying all over the place and you can't land a hit on them. (Hopefully) You start searching around for a way to deal with that. You find a YouTube video "How to hit fast moving targets" that is focused on piloting the Noobie Assault. It says "Watch this video, then go play single-player-bot-mission-six and practice these techniques." (In fact there are probably 4 or 6 videos teaching techniques that all can be practiced in single-player-bot-mission-six.) So you go practice your wax-on-wax-off and eventually go back to the game.

 

Are you now gonna smoke that jumpy little A-Class? Probably not. But are you going to deal with it better now with some basics ingrained in you? Yes. Are you going to feel like you have a way to win that you just need to perfect? I hope so.


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A little link from the "old days" because it seems I lost all my street cred with the forum reboot:

http://hawken.mirror...primary-weapon/

#20
Flifang

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These are the times where we all must remember that life happens. Not saying players right now have no life, but rather life has a way of not allowing compromise for things like video games. The only time I ever stopped playing hawken was early 2014 from about January to about a week into the summer break and that happened because I was busy working my ass off to finish 10 high school credits in a month to qualify for a 20,000$ scholarship. The moment I was free I started playing again and I don't at all regret taking time off for a change. Those who fell in love with this game will be back.



#21
BIsmuthZornisse

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maybe there should be an offline mission with nonshooting flying drones for target practice. bullseye paintjob optional.


I have a lot of ideas and would like some feedback on them:

Suggestions for fixing things:

https://community.pl...of-suggestions/

Suggestions for new things:

https://community.pl...for-new-things/


#22
Nept

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The real problem here is a lack of singleplayer mode AND the complete lack of advertising. The dumb 2400+ players have been arguing about tiny "issues" like the weapons raise delay just to benefit their own selfish ideals. Don't listen to those goys. 
Every complete game should have a singleplayer mode of some kind, and the only reason I even found this game is not because I stumbled upon it, but saw the game as an promotional advertisement when I was installing Nvidia drivers for my GTX680 I had just bought at the time. 

We need a singleplayer mode and advertising. 

 

Post of the week.


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#23
IareDave

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 The dumb 2400+ players have been arguing about tiny "issues" like the weapons raise delay just to benefit their own selfish ideals. Don't listen to those goys. 
 

Elitist scum!


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#24
CraftyDus

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Single player campaigns are all well and good.

That only gets me in for so long though.

 

For me and mine, the games I've really sunk the hours into have no single player campaign whatsoever.

 

I've got 2,700+ hours into DoD, 1,400 into Hawken, and now CS:GO, five hundred.

And most of that is spent trying to learn them.

 

Don't get me wrong.

I've got untold thousands of hours (collectively; individually they dry up quick) into games that have a single campaign aspect to them.

 

However, I like games with a person on the other end doing their best to survive me.


Edited by Dustin, 08 May 2015 - 11:02 AM.

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EOC Raider, Bolt Pred, Rev Gl Gren, EOC Infil, All the Reapers, Father, Expert in Guitar Kung Fu, and Founder of TPG Hawken

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#25
DerMax

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ITT: Coach experts trying to tell 2 (two) developers to push for gigantic updates asap. Get fukn real.

 

(Maybe more than two, but still very few.)


Edited by DerMax, 08 May 2015 - 11:03 AM.


#26
dorobo

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No one plays dota as a single player lol and hawken has bot modes last I heard.



#27
BIsmuthZornisse

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No one plays dota as a single player lol and hawken has bot modes last I heard.

bot destruction was kinda bad last time i played it, way too many emp/bombers.


I have a lot of ideas and would like some feedback on them:

Suggestions for fixing things:

https://community.pl...of-suggestions/

Suggestions for new things:

https://community.pl...for-new-things/


#28
Brother3J

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And once again, I will point out that players are impatient. And once again, I want to say, that cheering up the old devs had no fuc*ing influence on the future of Hawken. 

 

And once again, we need content, updates, bug fixes and no empty promises from Hughes/ADH or countless excuses.

 

However, Hughes was right about one thing:

 

"If you visit a restaurant and give up your order, you expect that your food is delivered in time. Even though the kitchen is burning and about to explode, the customer will expect his food to be dilivered with a decent quality in time. The customer will not care about what is happening in the kitchen, he only cares about his food for which he paid for to be delivered in time with a decent quality."

 

Quote not 1:1 but the key idea is the same.

 

Thing is, that's how it is like, players who are not loving Hawken will just move on as they get dissappointed. I can tell you that everyone I wanted to show Hawken said the following:

 

"Yes, it looks nice, feels awesome and is cool overall but ... it is still boring [...] as it is always the same."

 

With 'the same' they mean different stuff, however, everyone agreed on being stomped and having a dumb team isn't fun. 

I am no developer, but facts are facts.

And once again, Hawken will fail one more time, if nothing is done "in time with a decent quality."

I would disagree with your last line here... I have seen much more developed games, that should have been dead, a long time ago, still kicking.  Two examples Ghost Recon Phantoms and Gotham City Impostors..  Phantoms started out great but now is just a WTF happened?  Devs have totally screwed that game up.  Big pay wall, selling power, etc.   Gotham City Impostors hasn't had an update in years and people still play and give them money...

 

I get where your coming from, you like the game and want to see it thrive.  I am with you!!!  Just give the new devs some time.  


Edited by Brother3J, 08 May 2015 - 06:44 PM.


#29
DreamedArtist

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from making a smurf account I found out a few things that need to be looked into from the new devs/ owners...

 

1.  they complain that A class are too powerful and fast

2.  items to make mech better cost too much and take too long to get and force you to spend money

3.  match making is stupid from what they said saying it's unfair

4.  they enjoy playing co op team dm with bots cause it is more balanced and fun.... 

5.  price of parts with real money cost WAY TOOO MUCH even I think and I been playing this for 3 years...

6.  you have no selection of mechs from the start like to choose from to start playing, you only get 1 mech assault

7.  Broken chat that don't work for trying to do team DM

8.  not enough maps

 

 

That's the info I found out playing 10 hours in with the account talking with people and hearing what was going on.

 

These are things that need to get fixed and I know it's been talked about for years but never looked on for some reason but yeah :/


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#30
Pumapaw

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Bingo you win the prize. Nailed it. I would also suggest removing the mayhem servers off the hawken auto server game do hickey. If folks want that type a game make it a manual join.


Edited by Pumapaw, 08 May 2015 - 07:59 PM.


#31
Nightfirebolt

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When I logged on tonight, the amount of active people on my friends list was so high that I figured there must be another stress test or bonus XP/HC event going on. Turns out there wasn't. People just love Hawken. Who'da thunk it?

 

Until steamcharts shows us different, I don't think we have a major cause for concern.


Edited by Nightfirebolt, 08 May 2015 - 08:27 PM.


#32
PsychedelicGrass

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Looking at the steam charts I'm not seeing anything that's at all concerning. When Reloaded acquired the game a large amount of players returned after hearing the news. Some of them are now getting impatient because updates aren't happening RIGHT NAO and are leaving again. This is to be expected. 

 

 

There will be player retention issues until the devs are in a position to implement regular updates and content additions, that's just how it goes. 


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What's the big fuzzy bunnyng deal? Lots of amazing people have committed suicide, and they turned out alright.

 


#33
AsianJoyKiller

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The real problem here is a lack of singleplayer mode

Tell that to all the major online, multiplayer-only game devs.

 

Here's the main issue. Singleplayer modes take a ton of time and resources to create, while having relatively little replay value, and thus, relatively little value for player retention.


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#34
Leonhardt

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Tell that to all the major online, multiplayer-only game devs.

 

Here's the main issue. Singleplayer modes take a ton of time and resources to create, while having relatively little replay value, and thus, relatively little value for player retention.

 

False.

 


Edited by Leonhardt, 09 May 2015 - 07:13 AM.

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#35
talon70

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... .

 

However, Hughes was right about one thing:

 

"If you visit a restaurant and give up your order, you expect that your food is delivered in time. Even though the kitchen is burning and about to explode, the customer will expect his food to be dilivered with a decent quality in time. The customer will not care about what is happening in the kitchen, he only cares about his food for which he paid for to be delivered in time with a decent quality."

 

Quote not 1:1 but the key idea is the same.


 

..."

 

You do not quote someone and then say its not an actual quote.

 

The restaurant said our food will be about six months and its only been 2. Appetizers been pretty good so far.


Edited by talon70, 09 May 2015 - 08:31 AM.


#36
AngryOgre

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FEEL FREE TO LEAVE ANY CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM OR SUGGESTIONS

 

 

This. However, it seems a few people in the community would like to pile on to folks leaving constructive criticism or suggestions, that is something that has to change. It gets kinda hostile.


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#37
reVelske

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Really? This has been one of the more tolerating communities I've wandering through in my time, I'm not seeing much hostility save for a bit towards one or two individuals who are endless source of negativity and unconstructive criticism.



#38
AngryOgre

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https://community.pl...-tested-hawken/

 

It doesn't need to reach super toxic levels of hostility, it just needs to be a hostile environment. This is a great community, but it has it's bullies. 


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#39
DieselCat

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Really? This has been one of the more tolerating communities I've wandering through in my time, I'm not seeing much hostility save for a bit towards one or two individuals who are endless source of negativity and unconstructive criticism.

 

Yes you're correct... it's the 1% of the 5% that are that source you speak of.

 

As for this topic, I agree with some of the points made by the OP and don't feel as if his/her suggestions were for the devs to be making major updates asap. I took them as mostly suggestions that were of importance and could be discussed and implemented at a later date when the timing for such ideas was right.

 

And these were very valid points that do have a great impact on what is happening. I didn't read into this as someone yelling, screaming or fist pounding that they wanting to see suggestions like these put in place yesterday....Points 1, 2 and 3,  I though were on the mark in helping get, keep and retain new players and even getting back others that may have left the game.......I took it as well expressed food for thought.  :thumbsup:

 

*+


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Just Relax....and take life one game at a time....

Don't run to your death....walk

 

th_Duckman.jpg   th_82c0a97c-98de-4aac-be47-05e5e099be80.

 

*+

 





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