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On the Scout: Is it too fast on the field or is it not?

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#41
DallasCreeper

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There is nothing wrong with scouts, they are my favorite prey. Where they belong.

G2 Raider is life. 


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#42
StubbornPuppet

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Aren't you the guy who calls any player better than you a 'smurf', as if that's a bad thing? 

 

Do you not know that we are ALL smurfs, reflections of the higher dimensional being known as: "Crafty"?

 

(the accuracy of the rendition of the name diminishes exponentially as you traverse down-dimension many levels.  If you are far from Crafty, you might misread the name as something else, and suspect 'Smurf' as you watch the fireball which was formerly your mech start to cool.)

 

Scout is fine.  They're easy to hit.  320 health.

 

No, that's not me.  Best not to dish out a tongue lashing unless you're sure you're aiming it at the right individual.  I couldn't care less whether other players are better than me - the only stat I care about is my FFR (fun factor rating).

 

I can vouche for puppet as a solid dude who does not express much hate or salt.... Except when it come to THE RAIDEROSITY ! Muahaha! You might have the wrong guy lunatic.

 

Thanks Money.  I don't hate the Raider at all.  I love it.

 

The only change I would make to it is to fix the mistake Adhesive made when they increased the overall speed of the mechs and lowered the time-to-kill.  Their mistake was that the Raider (and a couple of others) had secondary weapon cool-down's which were originally timed to align with the time-to-kill, mech movement speeds and health pool of the game before the Steam update - and when they made that change, they left the Corsairs reload/cool-down speed at the same speed as pre-Steam.  This leaves the Raider in a precarious spot that forces it to disengage earlier from combat to avoid losing it's last bit of health against other burst mechs in head-to-head... mechs that it used to be able to afford "one last shot".  When Adhesive made those changes, they should have adjusted the time on those weapons as well... but we all know how stupid they were in those final days...


To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#43
JackVandal

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Im gona say the scout is not to fast, it just sits in a weird spot due to the fact a skilled player can wipe new players easily in a 1v1, the scout has the speed necessary to pick those 1v1's in TDM against new players, and then move on to the next spawn, being a solo deathball, the same could be done in a brawler, but its lack of mobility prevents it from reaching new spawns as fast.


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#44
The_Silencer

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Just as side note:

I think that I mentioned how relevant latency may become about facing off Scouts on the field. Now that I'm about to play the game on optical fiber here at my new location, I'll be able to feel how much relevant that is. But that half or those 3/4 of a second as time reaction must be crucial while fighting versus good Scout pilots. Always talking here when in between CQC or a Close Combat frame and mostly pointing to A Vs. A Class mech CQC fights as well...  you know

 

Extra hint to those who may concern:

Trying to adjust what your mouse sensibility value is during a match -if required due to skilled  Scout presence on the field, Etc. - won't be a terrible idea for you to consider either


Edited by The_Silencer, 05 April 2016 - 10:22 AM.

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#45
Call_Me_Ishmael

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No, that's not me. Best not to dish out a tongue lashing unless you're sure you're aiming it at the right individual.



No mistake.

Did I say Call Me Ishmael?

 

You should call me Luna.


#46
TheButtSatisfier

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No mistake.

 

Are you all out of things to say? Can't provide defensible evidence? Then stall them the Ambiguous Retort!

 

Remember: the best callout is the one where you force your accusee to drag your accusation out of you under penalty of looking like a coward!


8) Tech in the streets, Brawler in the sheets (8


#47
Call_Me_Ishmael

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Are you all out of things to say? Can't provide defensible evidence? Then stall them the Ambiguous Retort!

 

Remember: the best callout is the one where you force your accusee to drag your accusation out of you under penalty of looking like a coward!

 

Butt, butt out.  I was on my cell in the line to pick up kids from school.

 

Puppet spouted many times, some recently.  I'm not mistaken in my target in the slightest.  I bet, without a lot of searching, you'd find his posts in this forum fuzzy bunny about smurfs and stomps.  Here's a few of his oldest in the current forum:

 

https://community.pl...ive/#entry14759

https://community.pl...ge-2#entry30441

and the general theme in this one https://community.pl...ion/#entry39707

 

Something more recent, showing an evolving stance:

https://community.pl...ion/#entry39707

 

Search for yourself from here. I was more or less tolerant, and in some agreement with Puppet (next paragraph), until he started griefing me in a match - my first match in a while, so it stuck wtih me.  Shortly after, he posted in this thread, prompting my response.

 

But Puppet isn't all bad, and I agree with this post here.

https://community.pl...nce/#entry30418

 

But no, I didn't mistake Puppet for someone else.


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Did I say Call Me Ishmael?

 

You should call me Luna.


#48
TheButtSatisfier

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-snip-

 

This was the exact response I was hoping to elicit. Now I can look at your evidence and decide for myself!

 

Also, there is no butting out for Butt. If it's public, it's fair game.


8) Tech in the streets, Brawler in the sheets (8


#49
Call_Me_Ishmael

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This was the exact response I was hoping to elicit. Now I can look at your evidence and decide for myself!

 

Also, there is no butting out for Butt. If it's public, it's fair game.

 

Well, it made a cockneyed sort of sentence...

 

(rhyming cockney slang)


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Did I say Call Me Ishmael?

 

You should call me Luna.


#50
Silverfire

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Note: mech movement speed has gotten slower with each major iteration of Hawken. Alpha, OB, Ascension, Steam, movement speeds have gone down, yet TTK is up and "mech speed" is up.

Any thoughts?

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#51
Hyginos

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Note: mech movement speed has gotten slower with each major iteration of Hawken. Alpha, OB, Ascension, Steam, movement speeds have gone down, yet TTK is up and "mech speed" is up.

Any thoughts?

 

People gettin real good ad boostin and dodgin.


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#52
crockrocket

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People gettin real good ad boostin and dodgin.

 

Out of curiosity, how relevant do you think this is? Has the playerbase at large gotten significantly better over time?


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#53
Hyginos

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Out of curiosity, how relevant do you think this is? Has the playerbase at large gotten significantly better over time?

 

 

I actually think it has, though I have no way of quantifying it. A lot of movement options are not intuitively obvious from the controls, but are intuitively obvious to replicate from observation, so between that and the fact that the pop is so low those that do stick around will almost assuredly meet some veteran (inb4 crafty) players and learn a few moves.


MFW Howken

 

My post count is neat.


#54
Arkhaun

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I actually think it has, though I have no way of quantifying it. A lot of movement options are not intuitively obvious from the controls, but are intuitively obvious to replicate from observation, so between that and the fact that the pop is so low those that do stick around will almost assuredly meet some veteran (inb4 crafty) players and learn a few moves.

 

oh good ole plaguedoctor.... too many elited bruisers

i miss my swing dancing lock on angel

he taught me to be brave and AC


SORRY CAPS

 

 

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#55
Kopra

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Note: mech movement speed has gotten slower with each major iteration of Hawken. Alpha, OB, Ascension, Steam, movement speeds have gone down, yet TTK is up and "mech speed" is up.

Any thoughts?

 

Fuel inflation through FC and dodges using no fuel leads to more boosting and dodging.


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#56
StubbornPuppet

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Aren't you the guy who calls any player better than you a 'smurf', as if that's a bad thing? 

 

Your claim was the above.  Yet, not a single one of your examples is of me crying that any player who beat me was a smurf.  I don't ever complain about how I got beat or by whom.  I've complained that smurfing ruins the matchmakers ability to create balance and that it exacerbates the problems of high MMR players being able to find suitable matches.


To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#57
Rei

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It has to be once per thread, or else Poopslinger will kill us all very, very quickly.

The rule is, in the OP only. Can be multiple.

 

I should edit it and add "drink entire handle" for when we get a patch


Edited by Rei, 05 April 2016 - 06:03 PM.

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#58
Nightfirebolt

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Scout is the fastest mech in the game, has the most powerful weapons, and has the smallest hitbox.

 

Do the math.



#59
DallasCreeper

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Scout has the smallest fuel tank, has the second-smallest health pool, and heats up very, very quickly. 

 

Do the math.


 

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#60
hoghead

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When I kill a scout I'm like all............. :woot: giphy.gif


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#61
CoshCaust

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>is Scout too scoot 4 u

ZymPHtN.png

 

Seriously try using this thing against top tier players- no, let me be more specific:

Try using the Scout alongside your trusty and seasoned friends, against a comparable enemy team; you versus a singular unit comprised of individual entities who are each a great fight on their own, not to mention their synchronisation as a team. You can get alpha'd by a single mech- imagine the peril you face knowing all six of your enemies are functioning as one. You make the slightest mistake, and that enemy unit doesn't even need to act even close to flawlessly to wipe you off the map in an instant.

 

I have confidence in myself, enough confidence to say there is no individual I fear in Hawken - I'll happily take anyone on if the odds are even enough (full health?) - but to consider myself OP? Nah. Scout isn't too fast. I actually think it's fairly well-balanced (if not maybe a bit lacking). Not to mention Hawken players aren't even near the skill ceiling; if the Heat Cannon didn't have some of the highest potential in this game, I'd be fairly confident that the Scout wouldn't even be used by any of the top .01%- if we were close to the ceiling.

 

The Scout feels OP to lower-tier players because there is virtually no teamwork at all going on there. A-classes absolutely flourish there.


Edited by CoshCaust, 07 April 2016 - 01:01 AM.

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#62
crockrocket

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Scout is the fastest mech in the game, has the most powerful weapons, and has the smallest hitbox.

 

Do the math.

 

+

 

Scout has the smallest fuel tank, has the second-smallest health pool, and heats up very, very quickly. 

 

Do the math.

 

 = Balanced


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#63
Nightfirebolt

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Scout is the fastest mech in the game, has the most powerful weapons, and has the smallest hitbox.

 

Do the math.

Scout has the smallest fuel tank, has the second-smallest health pool, and heats up very, very quickly. 

 

Do the math.

 

You can't kill what you can't hit, whether it has low health or not.

 

And since it can double its fuel capacity with its ability, its small fuel tank is practically a moot point.


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#64
DallasCreeper

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You can't kill what you can't hit, whether it has low health or not.

 

And since it can double its fuel capacity with its ability, its small fuel tank is practically a moot point.

If you can't hit a Scout, you need to practice. 

 

Scout's Ability has a fairly sizable cooldown, so it's small fuel tank can hamper it's staying time in a prolonged duel. 


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#65
PoopSlinger

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You can't kill what you can't hit, whether it has low health or not.

 

And since it can double its fuel capacity with its ability, its small fuel tank is practically a moot point.

Isn't it just hard to aim because you are playing in like australia?

 

Maybe if they included a C-Class melee, where if a scout was scooting, breaking that turn cap, gettin close.  You could swat around with your wings to do damage and put a momentary delay in scouts movement or lose directional control for scout pilot.


Edited by PoopSlinger, 08 April 2016 - 04:00 AM.

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Come on Crafty, you have been officially called out on your lies. Your online reputation is at stake here, this is just like an old school street race running for pink slips. Its run what you brung and hope its enough. Put up or shut the fuzzy bunny up.


#66
_incitatus

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You can't kill what you can't hit, whether it has low health or not.

 

 

This is not a problem with the scoot, it is a problem with aim and patience.  I have more problems hitting Techs than Scouts.



#67
TheButtSatisfier

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I have more problems hitting Techs than Scouts.

 

Probably goes without saying, but I wager that's because a Tech is more focused on evading than firing


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#68
phed

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Probably goes without saying, but I wager that's because a Tech is more focused on evading than firing


Techs are faster too
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#69
TheButtSatisfier

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Techs are faster too

True, but that's only for walking speed, and the difference is marginal. Technician's walk is 23.5 m/s, and Scout's speed is 22.5 m/s. On the other hand, the Technician has a considerably slower boost speed than the Scout: 33.68 m/s vs. 39.8 m/s, respectively.


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#70
Jelooboi

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Scout has 320 health. /thread

low health? run to a corner and orb, problem solved.

 



#71
Jelooboi

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>is Scout too scoot 4 u

ZymPHtN.png

 

Seriously try using this thing against top tier players- no, let me be more specific:

Try using the Scout alongside your trusty and seasoned friends, against a comparable enemy team; you versus a singular unit comprised of individual entities who are each a great fight on their own, not to mention their synchronisation as a team. You can get alpha'd by a single mech- imagine the peril you face knowing all six of your enemies are functioning as one. You make the slightest mistake, and that enemy unit doesn't even need to act even close to flawlessly to wipe you off the map in an instant.

 

I have confidence in myself, enough confidence to say there is no individual I fear in Hawken - I'll happily take anyone on if the odds are even enough (full health?) - but to consider myself OP? Nah. Scout isn't too fast. I actually think it's fairly well-balanced (if not maybe a bit lacking). Not to mention Hawken players aren't even near the skill ceiling; if the Heat Cannon didn't have some of the highest potential in this game, I'd be fairly confident that the Scout wouldn't even be used by any of the top .01%- if we were close to the ceiling.

 

The Scout feels OP to lower-tier players because there is virtually no teamwork at all going on there. A-classes absolutely flourish there.

You also aren't accounting for the terrible server hitregs that makes A classes even harder to hit by default, but that is a server problem. 



#72
MomOw

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1 vs 1 against a scout in wreckage can be fuzzy bunny, but when you go raider and manage to hit the scout first it just goes BOOM.

Taking into account that mini-flak scout need to stay in the open, and the HEAT has low DPS, so beside heat cannon AEO poking the "most OP" is the flak scout.

 

Basically losing against a scout just means #getbetter, even against scout focused players ('cuz those players should be even better if they mained a salt)


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#73
angryhampster

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winning a scout is the ultimate test of how good your computer is.

 

if you die from a scout, you either have bad internet or you need to upgrade your archaeic computer.



#74
The_Silencer

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winning a scout is the ultimate test of how good your computer is.

 

if you die from a scout, you either have bad internet or you need to upgrade your archaeic computer.

 

 

well, if you play the game as smoothly as if you were exploring a map while piloting an Scout in a normal match then... cool and good for you. congrats! You've a beefed computer, dude!

 

Note: And more than probably a good Inet connection too, ofc


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The difference between theory and practice is smaller in theory than it is in practice.


#75
DallasCreeper

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I personally don't like to play A classes. They're just too soft. Except Reaper. I luv Reaper. 


 

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#76
angryhampster

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i dont mean to be rude here...

 

but do some people rather post and read on the hawken forums instead of playing the actual game itself?

 

im lookin at you....  yes....you.....



#77
DallasCreeper

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i dont mean to be rude here...

 

but do some people rather post and read on the hawken forums instead of playing the actual game itself?

 

im lookin at you....  yes....you.....

Me? I play hawken all the time!


 

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Ridding the world of evil, one Berzerker at a time.


#78
StubbornPuppet

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i dont mean to be rude here...

 

but do some people rather post and read on the hawken forums instead of playing the actual game itself?

 

im lookin at you....  yes....you.....

 

I spend more time posting and reading the forums than playing Hawken... because I'm sitting in a mostly empty lobby waiting for enough players to start a match of Siege or Missile Assault.  If fewer people copped out and kept playing TDM because they don't want to wait for Siege or MA, then I probably wouldn't post here as much, cuz mah lobbies would be fully filled.


To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#79
angryhampster

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Me? I play hawken all the time!

Do you think flattery will you from posting?

 

 I smell you, I hear your breath, I feel your air.  Where are you?



#80
DallasCreeper

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Do you think flattery will you from posting?

 

 I smell you, I hear your breath, I feel your air.  Where are you?

No


 

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Ridding the world of evil, one Berzerker at a time.





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