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TPG Season 3: Gametype "Poll"

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#1
Nept

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I can't seem to create polls.  So here's a lazy man's poll.  Post your responses within this thread, and I'll tally the answers later.  The best bit is that you'll be able to justify your choices (if you so choose)!

 

*Edit*

-----------------------------------

Poll is now closed.  Thanks to everyone who took participated.

-----------------------------------

 

Question 1: What's your preferred gametype between Missile Assault, Siege, and Team Deathmatch.  Please pick only one.  If you're indifferent, say so.

 

Question 2: Are you against playing more than one gametype within a single TPG match?

 

Note: The results of this poll will not determine our S3 gametype - at least not definitively.  Its purpose is to provide TPG admins a window into community opinion, not to dictate selection through vote. (I trust democracies about as far as I can spit)

 

 

Current Results

 

Missile Assault: 15

Siege: 8

TDM: 9

Indifferent: 8

 

Against multiple gametypes within a single match: 15

Not against: 21

 

 

------------------------------------------

 

 

Alongside this poll, I'm going to post my personal opinions.  There's been a lot of drama and LOUD NOISE MAKING re: gametype selection, and I think I can provide a balanced (emotionally and otherwise) overview.  Previous community opinion threads can be found here and here.

 

First, a quick disclaimer: I'm posting from the perspective of TPG Hawken's Head Admin, and from the perspective of Omniscient's captain.  As the latter, I couldn't care less about which gametype is selected.  As the former, I - alongside our other admins - care only that we select a gametype which the community will either enjoy or come to enjoy with experience.  Our gametype of choice should also provide strategic depth while remaining free of gamebreaking defects.

 

Here are my thoughts on the various gametypes:

 

Team Deathmatch:

  • Emphasizes tactical fluidity and rapid repositioning
  • Obvious emphasis on shooting skills
  • Provides a nice balance of map strategy and small-group tactics (where on the map will you engage, how will you engage, and how will your team respond to shifting scenarios during engagement)
  • Weaker teams, or teams with less strategic and tactical intelligence/coordination, have difficulty breaking strong map positions and often assume that they're unassailable
  • Score disparities can be large
  • Matches are quick to complete.  The timer can encourage teams to drain the clock through passive play (which, depending on your perspective is either annoying and lame, or "tactical)
  • Strategy-wise, this gametype provides the most options – assuming teams of similar skill. Large skill disparities severely limit strategic and tactical options.
  • Largest map selection (although some are terrible)

 

Missile Assault:

  • Emphasizes map strategy and team coordination
  • Small-group tactics still present, but not as complex as 6v6 TDM
  • Shooting skills de-emphasized. Still present and important, of course.
  • Score disparities tend to be lower – especially on triangular maps. Can be better for morale.
  • Provides weaker teams (DM-wise) their best shot at beating stronger teams – especially if the stronger team isn't properly controlling spawns on triangular maps.
  • This gametype punishes overly-passive play.
  • Multi-point gametypes are typically well-balanced and difficult for designers to get wrong. They've been around for awhile (in UT99, MA was called Domination).
  • Match length is limited by the missiles constantly chipping away at base health.
  • Good map selection.

 

Siege:

  • Emphasizes team coordination. Might provide for some interesting strategies revolving around energy collection and ship launches.
  • De-emphasizes map strategy since the main battle will always occur over the AA. Certainly some room for tactical positioning around the AA, though. (Hint: Don't stack all your players on a small point without barriers)
  • Perhaps a middle ground between TDM and MA re: emphasis on shooting skills.
  • May render less popular items and mechs more common (e.g., barriers and Predators)
  • Potential for large score disparities. Given the map structures and gametype objectives, it would not be difficult for Omniscient to 3000-0 most teams. Might be disheartening. That being said, I could be wrong: the TPG Cup saw some weaker DM teams beat stronger opponents through coordinated pushes.
  • Potential for long games. Unlike TDM and MA, there's no set length. Games between closely-matched opponents might be excruciatingly long. Or very exciting. Depends on perspective again, I suppose.
  • Hasn't featured during a TPG season.  Might be interesting to try something new.
  • Small map pool. Were Siege selected, it's unlikely we'd limit maps. Teams would have to develop strategies to overcome certain map shortcomings.

Keep this discussion civil and perhaps with a few less dramatics than we've observed in past threads.  Specifically, I suggest avoiding the "THIS MODE OR I'M NOT PLAYING" route.  It'll get you as far as ultimatums got my last ex.


Edited by Nept, 06 June 2015 - 04:04 PM.

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#2
crockrocket

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(I trust democracies about as far as I can spit)

Damn canucks

 

 

Anyway, my vote is for siege.

 

EDIT: I'm stupid and somehow missed Q2 (swear I read the whole thing!). Answer: indifferent


Edited by (TDM)crockrocket, 02 June 2015 - 10:02 PM.

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#3
Nept

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Dave's vote:

 

2:55 PM - IareDave: vote for TDM
2:55 PM - IareDave: godddddamnit
2:56 PM - OmniNept: you go vote for tdm
2:56 PM - OmniNept: it takes like 2 secs
3:04 PM - IareDave: id rather work on my lats
3:05 PM - OmniNept: go work on your calves instead
 


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#4
Amidatelion

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Question 1: MA

 

Question 2: Slightly against multiple game types.



#5
Call_Me_Ishmael

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Dave's vote:

 

2:55 PM - IareDave: vote for TDM
2:55 PM - IareDave: godddddamnit
2:56 PM - OmniNept: you go vote for tdm
2:56 PM - OmniNept: it takes like 2 secs
3:04 PM - IareDave: id rather work on my lats
3:05 PM - OmniNept: go work on your calves instead
3:05 PM - OmniNept: bro, do you even lift?

 

1: MA

2: Single Type Season.


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#6
ArchMech

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about the fourm polls, josh and tiggs want to use those for dev purposes only rather then have the community spitting out a ton of polls everywhere

use strawpoll

 

1. TDM or MA clearly, since im only allowed to pick one thing per his poll rules i pick not siege

2. ^like this^? fine but see below

 

 

i wish instead of all these teams forming of there own accord helter skelter there would be some actual rhyme and reason to it

 

it'd be nice to see X# of team captains have to go through a draft pick for a team to form but thats a pipe dream cuz esports and teams in esports is like the wild frikkin west GG


Edited by ArchMech, 02 June 2015 - 02:25 PM.

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#7
ThirdEyE

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1) Missile Assault

2) No, but I would prefer a single mode.


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#8
CraftyDus

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indifferent

 

This is the first and closest thing to comp shooters most of these players have ever experienced.

Having said that I might have asked 'em after they'd at least played a season of each game mode


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#9
Silverfire

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Prefer MA, it works.

 

Wouldn't mind MA and Siege combo. Siege does allow for interesting strategies and it's little more varied than MA.  Just if Siege comes around exclude Bazaar Siege, that's just not fair.

 

Just keep TDM out of this.  

 

And please add tutorial speedruns


Edited by Silverfire, 02 June 2015 - 06:05 PM.

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#10
OmniStone

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TDM, and ban the extractor from comp play :P. No to mulitple game modes as well.


Edited by OmniStone, 02 June 2015 - 05:20 PM.


#11
_incitatus

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1. Indifferent.

2. Indifferent.
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#12
TURDxSANDWICH

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1) Mostly indifferent, but lean towards TDM.

 

2) I would be open to multiple game modes.  Why not all 3?  Every match-up we play 1 game of each game mode. Teams would earn a win for each game they are victorious.  We can have an overall champion, and an individual champion for each game mode.  Standings would be kept per win, but score difference per game mode would be the tie breaker.

 

If we do go multiple game modes, i would argue against combining scores for seige and MA. The flow of those game are sufficiently different and I would assume that even in competitive play, the average margin of victory for seige would outweigh the average margin of victory for MA.


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#13
Merl61

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1. MA

 

2. Depends on how it is organized. I wouldn't mind MA/Siege but you'd have to work it out really well.


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#14
coldform

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  1. MA all the way.
  2. insufficient evidence to support either a yes or no. need more dakka data.

I like going against the best of any game I play. Helps you in the long run n motivates u to do more. Always room for improvement not failure

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#15
SaivixAvar

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I prefer Siege because it lasts longer but MA also works depending on the map. No Bunker Siege though


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#16
bkcat1

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TDM. A mix of gamemodes is fine.



#17
Interrobang87

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1. siege - all the high tier players that boycott it will open up room for new blood to participate without feeling like it's pointless (and it hasn't been done yet)

 

2. yes multiple modes - first game missile assault, second missile assault, and in the event of a tie EPIC SIEGE BATTLE!


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#18
LoC_TR

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1. MA

2. Single game mode

#19
CounterlogicMan

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1. Siege -what can I say...this is my favorite game mode.

 

2. multiple (test your might)


Edited by CounterlogicMan, 02 June 2015 - 04:36 PM.

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#20
KejiGoto

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1.) As much as I prefer TDM for Hawken I'm casting my vote for MA. While I dislike having the action forced to take place in only certain parts of the map instead of being able to take advantage of the whole map but after last season and running up against camp tactics I'd rather force combat to move around than see people camp certain areas of the map because that is the best point to spam from.

2.) One type only. Changing things up in terms of game mode just leaves too much open for complaining about match results and so forth. Consistency is always best and makes map selection and all that far easier when dealing with strictly one mode.



#21
Dew

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1) Indifferent.

 

2) One game type.

 

EDIT: Actually I'm vehemently against multiple game types in one season. Keep it simple, no need to complicate things like that.


Edited by Dew, 02 June 2015 - 05:00 PM.


#22
ticklemyiguana

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It'll get you as far as ultimatums got my last ex.

 

Hypothetical situations are not valid in this discussion.

 

1. TDM (Simply because it's a game mode I can play over and over again and I haven't played it competitively.)

 

2. No I'm not opposed to it, but would prefer TDM and MA, as I enjoy siege the least out of any game modes, including co-op bot modes. It's typically the most repetitive and monotonous (even bot destruction on Facility lets you pick which side you get to engage on) due to its very strict points of conflict and order in which they must be contested.

 

That being said, in the interest of the community, I would be perfectly accepting of a best of three format involving Siege, TDM, and MA. It would allow, as stated above, individual game mode champions and runner ups, as well as a league champion. I'd prefer each game type weighted equally. I've seen tournaments in Hawken in which winning a certain game mode awarded you a different number of points.

 

I also do appreciate Arch's vision about drafts and whatnot given the ludicrous state of the "competitive" scene in Hawken - ie: second place is all that matters.


Edited by ticklemyiguana, 02 June 2015 - 05:10 PM.

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Spoiler

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#23
Hyginos

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I think the most competitively viable mode is by far is speedrun co-op bot destruction.


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#24
Daronicus

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1:  Anything but siege.

 

2:  Anything but siege.


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#25
PsychedelicGrass

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1. TDM

2. Yes

Edited by PsychedelicGrass, 02 June 2015 - 05:17 PM.

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#26
breadeffect

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1. MA

 

2. 1 gamemode


Edited by breadeffect, 02 June 2015 - 05:41 PM.


#27
ThirdEyE

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1. Indifferent.

2. Indifferent.

MVP vote right here


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#28
DM30

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Preferred game type: indifferent*

 

*Siege could be fun to try since there have already been seasons for the other two team-based modes, but I wouldn't want to play two or more Siege games back to back (and most people I've talked to have said the same thing, despite how much they may like Siege as a game mode). This really would only not be an issue if the season was set long enough to allow matches to be split over a couple of days so that people aren't exhausted by the end of the second/third round.

 

Multiple game types: No. It just seems messy to me, and if you were to try and tally up score across the different game types in any way other than just who won/lost I could see it being a hassle. I would prefer a more consistent layout for a single season.


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#29
LEmental

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  • Given the map structures and gametype objectives, it would not be difficult for Omniscient to 3000-0 most teams.

Keep this discussion civil and perhaps with a few less dramatics than we've observed in past threads.  Specifically, I suggest avoiding the "THIS MODE OR I'M NOT PLAYING" route.  It'll get you as far as ultimatums got my last ex.

 

Wat? Over half of the teams in season 3 are very competitive. Are you being serious, or just a jerk? D=

1. MA (with no triangle maps)

2. I'm ok with multiple game made

 

I would also be interested to see 3v3 TDM.  I think it's a very solid format.  I would also be interested in testing TDM without tech/repair charges.


Edited by LEmental, 02 June 2015 - 08:49 PM.

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#30
Nept

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Wat? Over half of the teams in season 3 are very competitive. Are you being serious, or just a jerk? D=

1. MA (with no triangle maps)

2. I'm ok with multiple game made

 

I would also be interested to see 3v3 TDM.  I think it's a very solid format.

 

Oh, I'm being serious - but I'm not trying to be a jerk or a braggart.  We just scrimmed the Mustangs (was our first time playing coordinated Siege) and ran 2800-0; 2700-0; and 2500-0.  With what we learned through those maps, we could certainly coordinate launches to hit the 3000-0 mark.

 

Siege provides - in my opinion - more domination potential than other modes.  It's something to consider when voting, I think.



#31
M1lkshake

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1. MA

2. Single game mode only.

 

TDM presents interesting gameplay that I would love to master, eventually. It focuses entirely on how well you and your teammates can aim, coordinate attacks, get out of difficult situations, etc. with no distractions. However, score differentials can be quite large and discouraging to any team.

 

Siege is similar, because although there are more objectives (gathering EU and guarding the AA), almost the exact same skills are needed to make any progress anywhere. Score differentials are likely to be around the same for any two teams as in TDM. Also, again, siege can take an extremely long time, even for best-of-three unbalanced matchups.

 

Personally, if either of these were chosen, I would enjoy still enjoy it. Learning MA from the ground up was a challenge, but we got the hang of it and things turned out pretty well in the end. I see both of these game modes as similar opportunities.

 

Regardless, I feel that MA is the best choice for the time being. On the one hand, the mode is more forgiving to unbalanced matchups, for a variety of reasons. Newer or less experienced teams will be less discouraged, and with the right tactics in mind may even beat teams that would ordinarily have a combat advantage. There are a lot of promising teams signed up for season three that nobody wants to see disband - and even if everybody understands that losing is part of the learning process, nobody likes to be on the receiving end of that.

 

On the other hand, teams that think they would find no trouble in the other two game modes stand to lose nothing here. "TDM skills" are still a large part of what determines the winner, even if it is a reduced part. Besides, having the coordination to control two or three points with six people, as opposed to one point, is a unique challenge in and of itself.


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#32
Massive_Assailant_Stingray

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1. MA (with no triangle maps)

That sounds like a season of Wreckage with the occasional Origin thrown in.


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#33
PoopSlinger

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1. TDM

 

2. No,  Just to see how it works out.


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#34
SOD_CyberTormentor

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1. MA

2. Single game mode only.


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#35
eth0

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1. Siege
2. No, multiple modes make marvelous matches.

Spoiler


Pubstomping is a whole different strategic discussion, however, and usually just becomes an exploration of the ethics of dumpstering randos.

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#36
Nept

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Edited with current results.  About 30 votes so far, people - let's see some more.


Edited by Nept, 03 June 2015 - 06:07 PM.


#37
TheButtSatisfier

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1. Siege

2. I have interest in playing multiple game types

 

My general answer for #1 is "indifferent", but I feel thirsty for more siege after this most recent cup.


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#38
Nept

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Climatic's vote is for TDM.  He's also fat, and is against multiple gametypes.



#39
IareDave

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TDM: 7 + 6 indifferent = 13
MA: 12

Yup, looks like we have a winner.
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#40
hestoned

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ma or siege

 

just one game mode for the season






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