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A Tree's view on current Gameplay in Hawken

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#1
deidarall

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Firstly, let it be said I am very happy to be making this thread, I was thinking that I would never make a game-play suggestion thread for this game ever again. So let me preface this post with some music in happy celebration. 

 

 

 

 

Now, on to the serious matter what I think of this Hawken, this game-play is great, but it is more float-y than the early days. In part due to the air dodge mechanics put in place when Ascension hit.  

 

This is not really directly a issue with air dodge in terms of the concept, but the air dodge, and the air dynamics in general now quite simply make hawken flow in a very very different way than it did before. While air dodge does arguably effect balance in a negative manner with weapons such as Rev Gl, my main issue with it is that it makes game-play feel a bit more spongy than I remember hawken originally being. Of course I admit it has been a long while sense I have played old hawken, but I think the focus on foot work without the extra dimension of people using air dodge floating tactics, and how this effects duels and other aspects of aim and game play sort of leads to this feeling. Moving in the air feels a lot like running in Tf2, or skiing in tribes but not quite so robust or interesting,  and you can sort of tell in my view that it was added on later, with weapons like EOC that are very clearly meant for a game focused on ground work, as well as knowing that the ground work system feels more direct, and is more robust.  

 

I would suggest trying to make ground work more central for most mechs, and having the air dodge tricks somehow limited, I personally think it hurts how abrasive the game should feel in a odd way, in old Hawken that abrasive jerky feeling made it feel much more interesting, nearly every shooter ever is float-y and flows, they own that, and it works, but Hawken was/is full of jerk dodging and therefore it danced to it's own tune it flowed in it's own way with choices being moment to moment, and still does, but the tune is blunted now with the constant way air dodge killer bees just float around in some cases, and it just feels awkward at points. 

 

There is also the aspect of fuel management which is less important than it used to be, which I dislike, dodging used to take up fuel, which made players more thoughtful in my view, and made game play more abrasive and tense which I enjoyed. I would suggest bringing that back as apposed to allowing dodge to be used in the manner that it is. These two ideas in my view are the most important things. Hawken needs to feel a bit more like it did before in my view, cause that was when it was most unlike any other shooter I played and it hooked me like a fish hooked to fried chicken on a summer Sunday morning. 

 

 

 

 

Moving on, I would like to talk about abilities lightly. Let's start with heavy mechs, these abilities are in Hawkens history the hardest to get right the old guard devs never cracked it, with only Vanguards turret mode being really good at doing something interesting and unique.  Signs that Turret mode was being left behind were it's removal from Gren, and the fact that the Incen lacks turret mode and instead has a replacement. 

 

Quite simply I disagree with it's removal from gren, I would suggest instead making turret mode for gren more support based, with it perhaps giving a limited AOE buff to mechs or filling out some other support role, it might also be a good idea to actually consider a idea where grens turret mode lets him walk at normal speed without dodge but provides a sort of buff to his firing depending on what primary he is using. Perhaps the Vulcan can fire mini exploding bullets and people down. 

 

The point is please consider turret mode carefully for gren, I do suggest adding it back as a support focus, also consider something like that for brawler turret mode, some or of AOE healing perhaps.

 

Turret mode and heavy mechs overall should focus on pretty much being the core of a team with the most powerful supporting powers. Try to embody that.

 

Otherwise Light mechs have a good set of powers focused around more solo play, and med mechs are set up pretty well as well. It is really just heavy mech powers that are often horrid, mainly with the original three in Brawler, Rocketeer, and Gren, those are your problems in getting the turret mode powers right.

 

 

Lastly, there is the splash of secondary weapons, I sort of miss the old TOW and Nade a bit, and while I do not like the idea of them being as extreme as the game was in it's first day of open beta, I still wish the splash was a bit larger, with the better hold the game has over feathering the splash damage I think it might not be bad to bring the slow firing big TOW back, with a slightly more fast firing but bigger splash nade as well. What do you guys think about this.

 

Ciao- I am a tree

 

I love you all 

 

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Edited by deidarall, 22 March 2015 - 11:04 PM.

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#2
Aregon

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I miss the times when C-classes felt really heavy, not just like a balloon filled with only air.


CRITICAL ASSIST

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#3
deidarall

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I miss the times when C-classes felt really heavy, not just like a balloon filled with only air.

 

 
 
I must confess I do miss how, again abrasive everything felt, and how heavy everything felt, now again I have to use the float word, but it does sort of fit what happened to hawken, it feels much more float-y and balloon-y than it did before, and really we have a ton of balloon-y float-y shooters, and it is not what made hawken special to me. 

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#4
DerMax

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Yes.



#5
RedVan

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Please don't use the argument that because some weapons are designed with splash, gameplay was meant for the ground. I already proved that wrong in my thread. You're simply trying to avoid that by making a new thread and using it.

#6
deidarall

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Please don't use the argument that because some weapons are designed with splash, gameplay was meant for the ground. I already proved that wrong in my thread. You're simply trying to avoid that by making a new thread and using it. 
 

 

 

Actually I am focusing more on actual feeling rather than balance in this thread in regards to the float-y feeling of the game from my perspective, I would rather have the ground work be highlighted more in hawken cause I really do think it is more robust and interesting gameplay. OR have the air systems changed to not be float-y, but I do not know how that would be done. 



#7
deidarall

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Top expand on my ideas regarding air dynamics, what it allows is for mechs to keep proper distance without foot work. It also allows retreat or pushing with constant damage without foot work. There are also many cases where the limited directional options of foot work are just not going to cut to compared to wind work. 

 

What this means is that the foot work based duels are not going to happen as much. Also wind work lets players care less about keeping proper distance overall, as rockateers and other mechs use it very simply as a easy way to keep distance. It is very powerful in making the game derpy and spongy feeling as players sort of just use simple wind work to keep distance or decide distance, and  this is before adding in stuff like air dodge, and other options. It is annoying to fight just cause it is so awkward to be looking up at these mechs, and they have the ability to constantly adjust while you move forward with boost, able to fire down at you while are trying to gain ground. That is why it is such a go to, cause it lets you passive decide distance in a very simple not very risky manner, as apposed to boosting which will not allow you to shoot. 

 

I don't really like how simple it is to keep distance with air work, it brings out a passive sustained play style too a fault where everyone plays it safe. 

 

 

Plus I will raise a point. Did we really need a more complex movement system than this? I mean I really miss the tightness of the focused foot work play-styles, and I think the air play is just not going to compare to how that felt. 

 

https://youtu.be/vmXEwcdMwtg?t=13m54s






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