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#1
Timeraider

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After approx. 1 year ive been trying out Hawken again. Now i was wondering if something happened to Predator.

It used to be like a tiger.. sneaking around and then unleashing both weapons and rockets into the enemies back which usually bursted down light units quite fast.

Atm i feel like its more comparable to a kitty cat .. you can unleash all your burst into a light unit's back for 5 minutes and he still will be alive. Looking at the numbers compared to how they were before (when predator was fine imo :P it had his niche), there has been at least like a 50% reduction to his whole burst setup (fully loaded shotgun + tier 3 rocket + some stick grenades)...

Anyone else feel like this?

(please only answer if Predator is one of your top 3 ... obviously anyone not actually playing Predator will either be neutral or against this depending on what mechs he does play :P)

 

p.s. just talking objective numbers-wise... not influenced by what map etc.

 

 

pps... omg.. 1 post? Have i seriously never made a post in all that time? .. jeez... im a bad community member XD


Edited by Timeraider, 31 March 2015 - 10:38 PM.


#2
Amidatelion

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90% of predator players have no idea what they are actually doing and so can't effectively utilize the plentiful burst the thing has.


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#3
ThirdEyE

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Predator still has a ton of burst potential, you just need to be patient and make sure you don't miss.  Playstyle depends a lot on each weapon but I'll assume you're talking about the Breacher since it's the default.

 

For A-classes, the trick is to land a charged shot first, then an uncharged shot in quick succession.  This can do a max of 244 damage (100 charged + 144 uncharged) in about 1 second.  Add in 1-2 EOCP mines at 60-65 damage each and/or a detonator/HE charge for another 60-65 and you've got a very ded A-class.

 

Edit: Put a short video together to demonstrate this technique.  Enjoy!


Edited by ThirdEyE, 01 April 2015 - 01:02 AM.

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#4
Amidatelion

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^ 10%


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#5
Vdragon

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Predator is fine.

Tho I'd personally be ok with a buff to it :p


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#6
Timeraider

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Predator still has a ton of burst potential, you just need to be patient and make sure you don't miss.  Playstyle depends a lot on each weapon but I'll assume you're talking about the Breacher since it's the default.

 

For A-classes, the trick is to land a charged shot first, then an uncharged shot in quick succession.  This can do a max of 244 damage (100 charged + 144 uncharged) in about 1 second.  Add in 1-2 EOCP mines at 60-65 damage each and/or a detonator/HE charge for another 60-65 and you've got a very ded A-class.

 

The problem is.. yes, this used to be able to. But atm even if the guy (low armor mech) is afk and i would use the Breacher to get like 2 shots off, use the tier 3 rocket and hit a few mines (hard to pull off against real targets but lets say you manage it) .... he used to be.. well.. dead.

Do it nowadays and he has 50% health left.

 

The "very dead A class" isnt working for me as far as ive noticed :S ... maybe my numbers are different then yours :D



#7
Grollourdo

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Predator still has a ton of burst potential, you just need to be patient and make sure you don't miss.  Playstyle depends a lot on each weapon but I'll assume you're talking about the Breacher since it's the default.

 

For A-classes, the trick is to land a charged shot first, then an uncharged shot in quick succession.  This can do a max of 244 damage (100 charged + 144 uncharged) in about 1 second.  Add in 1-2 EOCP mines at 60-65 damage each and/or a detonator/HE charge for another 60-65 and you've got a very ded A-class.

 

Edit: Put a short video together to demonstrate this technique.  Enjoy!

 

.... wow .... and i thought i was good a predator ... T.T for some reason i suck at aiming my breacher .... so yeah i now use the repeater lol XD 

 

ima have to train with breacher again XD


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#8
vonbach

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As far as I've seen the best way to use this thing is to be smart and sneaky.

I usually sneak about assisting other mechs in their battles and killing enemies as their

wounded and trying to repair. In one on one fights (especially against experienced players)

the predator seems to be know where near as effective. In general I try to support my team

rather than just gank things by myself. 


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#9
Grollourdo

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As far as I've seen the best way to use this thing is to be smart and sneaky.

I usually sneak about assisting other mechs in their battles and killing enemies as their

wounded and trying to repair. In one on one fights (especially against experienced players)

the predator seems to be know where near as effective. In general I try to support my team

rather than just gank things by myself. 

 

same ... maybe because i m rusty lol XD


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#10
Animal_Instinct

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DONT. TOUCH. MY. PREDATOR.

 

If someone doesn't know how to use it properly, it's HIS problem. They can always play the Rocketeer or something similar. No skill or tactical aware involved to get kills with those...


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#11
Grollourdo

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Lol man XD

 

 

i like my pred XD i just am bad at hawken lol XD

 

 

yes i think i m bad at hawken XD


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#12
Erzunterweltler

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http://hawken.heroku...user/Timeraider

 

Seriously, no offense, but stats don't lie. You're level 18, you're Predator is your best Mech (even though it's Rank 3), your KD with Pred is 1.13. All in all you have got a KD of 0.99, with 270 kills, 273 deaths and 300 assists. I saw you playing and you weren't a that great help, even with Underdog Bonus you were almost the last of the team everytime, only walking around as a cloaked Pred, at least it seemed so.

 

 

If someone doesn't know how to use it properly, it's HIS problem. They can always play the Rocketeer or something similar. No skill or tactical aware involved to get kills with those...

 

I have to agree with that. Probably you're just rusty, get back into the game by playing other Mechs, such as Rocketeer, Bruiser or Assault. Predator and Infiltrator belong to the most difficult Mechs to play in Hawken, so take an easy Mech first and get a feeling again for the game mechanics. I promise you'll play better then again, also with the Predator.


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#13
Bergwein

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As a wise man once said: "Instead of a tiger or a lion, think of the Predator as a spider."

This more or less wraps it up for me.

 

Also: utube.com/watch?v=BewWjlMS164


Edited by Bergwein, 01 April 2015 - 05:53 AM.


#14
Silverfire

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Since when did the Predator's burst potential change that dramatically? I don't recall any serious changes to the Pred other than the EOC P rework.

Edited by Silverfire, 01 April 2015 - 06:15 AM.

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#15
Meraple

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The problem is.. yes, this used to be able to. But atm even if the guy (low armor mech) is afk and i would use the Breacher to get like 2 shots off, use the tier 3 rocket and hit a few mines (hard to pull off against real targets but lets say you manage it) .... he used to be.. well.. ded.

Do it nowadays and he has 50% health left.

 

The "very ded A class" isnt working for me as far as ive noticed :S ... maybe my numbers are different then yours :D

 

It means you didn't hit.

If all of those shots did hit, it'd be way more than just 50% of an A mech's HP.



#16
CraftyDus

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It is important to pop each off your EOC secondaries as they land on or near your target.

Even binding a weapon utility key to make certain they are popping off effectively.

And because it's Hawken, rebind the weapon utility key before every session  to make sure it's actually working, because Hawken's keybinding is.....fickle.

The secondary EOC has great reliability of damage direct or splash.

It's often one last EOC puck that seals the deal.

 

I recommend;

Before your regular online sessions, practice offline bot tdm like 10-20 minutes a day using ONLY your secondary for a week or 2 .

You will improve rapidly.

 

 

 

related gif:

 

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Edited by craftydus, 01 April 2015 - 07:18 AM.

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#17
-Tj-

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I jumped into a Pred a few times in the past couple weeks, having been away from the game for about 4 months. Still feels very much deadly to me. x)

 

If the Pred felt different to you now from a year ago, you might just need to acclimate to the changes. I usually play with a higher-than-desireable ping (like 150-ish), but I can still get some respectable kills. The EOC-Ps are harder to direct hit against a lot of targets, so I like to throw 'em on the ground around them and detonate them either when they land, or when the target I'm engaging moves back toward them. Primary, I usually go with the T32 since I like to be closer to my target when I take them out, and it has a higher rate of fire.

 

Since when did the Predator's burst potential change that dramatically? I don't recall any serious changes to the Pred other than the EOC P rework.

 

Thinking back on it, there was a bug with the Breacher that caused a crapload of damage. That might be what got changed, they fixed the bug.



#18
Timeraider

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Guess its just me getting seizures while playing from these lockon messages, might not have a good impact



#19
KOS_Baconman

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I think its fine, I typically get 1st or 2nd place on my team in my pred, pulling around 10-12 kills total by the end of the match with only 1-3 deaths. I've got no problems with it currently.


  

What if we just give some bacon paint, some bacon holo-emotes and change Bunker from snow to bacon.

 

This way, everyone will be happy.

What you should really do, is replace your parts with bacon, so you can cook games and eat bacon

Obviously the wallpaper would be cooler if bacon was incorporated into it.

 


#20
Timeraider

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Just saying btw ... i have a feeling alot of you see it more as a "lets bash on predator untill he gets a buff or something"-thread.

 

I was just asking wether or not stuff has changed, how the opinions are atm etc. ... nothing more, nothing less. 

 

So thanks for the advice so far


Edited by Timeraider, 01 April 2015 - 01:54 PM.


#21
Silverfire

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Just saying btw ... i have a feeling alot of you see it more as a "lets bash on predator untill he gets a buff or something"-thread.

 

I was just asking wether or not stuff has changed, how the opinions are atm etc. ... nothing more, nothing less. 

 

So thanks for the advice so far

 

Not much has changed.  Direct damage dealt by EOC Predator mines has increased, but you can only place 8 mines down instead of 10 mines down.  Other than that, a firing bug was corrected with the Breacher. Walk/run speed increased in Stalker mode (Predator's ability). Other than that, not much else has changed.
 

In terms of opinion, the Predator remains one of the hardest mechs to play effectively, but if you can play it well, kudos to you.  It's tricky to get used to.


Edited by Silverfire, 01 April 2015 - 06:53 PM.

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#22
vonbach

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The predator feels underpowered when you first use it. Thats how I felt but 

after you get some practice with it it feels much more powerful.

It not so much DPS output as tactics in my experience.



#23
Aregon

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I like to use the Pred as an ultimate assassin, going after repairing mechs and those away from the battlefield. In DM it is also amazing at escaping enemies.

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#24
StubbornPuppet

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I'm from the "just leave the Predator like it is" camp.

The predator isn't really supposed to be a skirmish fighter, so "getting up close to your enemies back and unleashing" should be reserved for desperation.

As it is, a good Predator player can get an instant kill on a Scout, Berzerker, Tech or Reaper with full health and leave any B or C-Class with very little health at all.  This is done by strategically laying down all of your pucks in a specific spot and then adding a full volley from the EOC Repeater in the same place - then watching that spot (preferably while cloaked) and detonating when someone steps near it.  And if you're close enough when that happens, anyone that happens to escape instant death is just one good shot away from their demise.


To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#25
WastingTime

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The pred can be used as area denial with EOC spam or can be a nasty little corner (bursty) mech

It is a very different play style compared to the others.  Might just need to get used to it again

 

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Thanks for the link to see the mech info.  I didn't know that was available.


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#26
DM30

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The problem is.. yes, this used to be able to. But atm even if the guy (low armor mech) is afk and i would use the Breacher to get like 2 shots off, use the tier 3 rocket and hit a few mines (hard to pull off against real targets but lets say you manage it) .... he used to be.. well.. ded.

Do it nowadays and he has 50% health left.

 

This is probably the main difference you're noticing. Items were changed a while ago so that different tiers all had the same power. A mk.III detonator does the same damage as a mk.I det. The difference is how many you get per life.

 

Aside from that the only real change is the Pred mines like Silverfire mentioned, which actually upped the alpha damage in a direct fight.


Edited by DM30, 02 April 2015 - 12:27 PM.

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#27
m0bieduck

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The pres is probably the most op mech in the game, in the right hands. It is just one of those examples of high skill ceiling high reward. You should listen to third and appleman, they are among the best at pred (and maybe me :3). You want wallhacks? Fine. You want to basically one shot scouts? Fine. You want to be invisible? Fine. You want to be amazing at corner play? Fine. You want traps? Fine. You want a sexy mech? Fine. You want coaching? Is 21st still in hawken?
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#28
Source_Mystic

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I have been around about 2 years. Everyone told me not to buy predator when I was new. Me being who I am it was my second mech. The first week I hated it. Why ? Timing of weapons after I started to get the hang of it the mech is realy well ballenced. It is a difficult mech to play ... I would say the hardest. personaly the t32 is a compleat waste on pred you have to get way to close with it and that means taking self dammage if you use your Eoc P. 

 

 Some notes if you do go pred

 

ONE ,  patience this is the key to a good pred pilot. GET BEHIND THEM , WAIT WAIT , WAIT .... NOW ATACK WHEN THEY ARE WEAK.

 

TWO , breacher is the only weapon that can fire though sheilds. Side note most  good pred piolets know if you charge your breacher fire and then tap second shot will fire faster than if you just dobble taped it.

 

THREE , DULE EOC IS THE ONLY WAY TO PRED ,  When using both eoc drop one or two eoc pred on the enemy then drop all six eoc R , Another  trick , do not fire on the mech directly fire at ther feet or knee level. lastley fire whe you think they will go not where they are.

 

Pred is not a front line mech if you play it like that you will get slaugtered be a sneeky backstabbing Bastered. If you are not playing like this you are doing pred wrong.

 

Pred's cloke is just that not true invisablity so do not think you can just walk in front of a person while cloked . Cover is your ally so  is  your heat vision as well as not moving somtimes... IF YOU DO NOT MOVE IT IS WAY HARDER to spot you when cloaked.. this fact has saved me more times that any thing else.  Finaly pred is most powerful for BURST DAMMAGE that is pop out drop all you mines doge for cover relocaate , rinse repeat.

 

 

 Lastly if you stay in th middle of a map  cloked and a persons redicule passes over you you will be hilighted ...... be warned  cover and not moving ,,,, do not stand in the middle of a map and get killed and say I did not move why did I get killed.

 

 aditional  notes : pred is The  most difficult mech in the game to play well.  Even us people that main preds still think so ... but I will say this Please  FOR THE LOVE OF GOD LEAVE PRED THE WAY IT IS.  IF YOU BUFF THE WEAPONS IT WILL NOT END WELL...  ( PRED IS FINE WHER IT IS AT THE MOMENT.)

 

Most people that scream that pred needs a buff just have not learned to play it to its full potentional.

 

Like I said I hated pred for the first week ... by the second he was my main mech.

 

PLAY PRED AS A DEFENCIVE SUPPORT MECH WHEN YOU START OUT , WHEN YOU GET BETTER YOU CAN PLAY SOMEWHAT MORE OFFENCIVE ... BUT YOU WILL NEVER BE A FRONT LIINE MECH. 


Edited by Source_Mystic, 03 April 2015 - 07:53 PM.


#29
Hijinks_The_Turtle

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Pred needs no changes.


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#30
Amidatelion

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Is 21st still in hawken?

 

He's not.



#31
m0bieduck

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He's not.


What a shame, he had loads of free time in which he used to teach noons, but he was barely a mature pilot at the time, I guess he left because the religion lughtangelism died
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#32
eyolas

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I love the predator, think it's the most ** FUN ** mech around.
[Just one piece of advice: Be sure to install the no-fall-damage internal]

 

It's a nice spec-op mech that shouldn't be changed, maybe barring one glitch.

When it's cloaked and when you run across a hellfire mech that scans for targets, it finds you.

I'd love to see that changed into a situation where only a rocketeer in **turret mode** will see a cloaked pred, but not otherwise. (adding some love to rocketeer turret as well.)

 

I don't have the numbers with me, from the top of my head, pred with dual eoc has an insane burst potential.

Especially when you've already dropped pucks at a chokepoint it has great area denial.

Also I love it's support role (imagine a frontal assault where you hover behind your friends and toss pucks on the ground towards your opponents - every strafe your enemy camp does, inflicts damage.

Plus it's the only mech I know that can easily kill whilst repairing :)

 

If you're having problems with pred, try to rekindle your understanding of the mech. Sometimes when I switch to another mech, or haven't run it for a while, it takes some readjusting: you can forget a lot in 1 year...

 

TL;DR: predator is a viable and really fun option to play with; just practice more often :)



#33
DreamedArtist

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I would like to see a 10% buff to deal with slow attack speed in the middle of intense combat, That would be nice but pred is purely a support mech from what I seen.



#34
KOS_Baconman

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Predator still has a ton of burst potential, you just need to be patient and make sure you don't miss.  Playstyle depends a lot on each weapon but I'll assume you're talking about the Breacher since it's the default.

 

For A-classes, the trick is to land a charged shot first, then an uncharged shot in quick succession.  This can do a max of 244 damage (100 charged + 144 uncharged) in about 1 second.  Add in 1-2 EOCP mines at 60-65 damage each and/or a detonator/HE charge for another 60-65 and you've got a very ded A-class.

 

Edit: Put a short video together to demonstrate this technique.  Enjoy!

I've managed to get pretty good killstreaks (6-10) by following people going to heal (especially light mechs) and firing a secondary shot first, then releasing my charged shot from my EOC this way, the EOC pred shot makes it to the mech about the same time as the primary EOC (I used to be all breacher, but then I saw the EOC's potential when a guy dominated a match with it)


  

What if we just give some bacon paint, some bacon holo-emotes and change Bunker from snow to bacon.

 

This way, everyone will be happy.

What you should really do, is replace your parts with bacon, so you can cook games and eat bacon

Obviously the wallpaper would be cooler if bacon was incorporated into it.

 


#35
KilleR_OrigiNs

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Predator still has a ton of burst potential, you just need to be patient and make sure you don't miss. 

 

make sure you don't miss.

 

you don't miss.

 

don't miss.

 

miss.

 

iss.

 

ISIS.

Illuminati confirmed.



#36
Hijinks_The_Turtle

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The only thing I'd like is if we could detonate the mines midair.  That'd be nice.



#37
ThirdEyE

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The only thing I'd like is if we could detonate the mines midair.  That'd be nice.

I actually like that they don't have airburst, since that would make them really easy to spam for free damage.  However, I do want there to be less restrictions on detonating mines that are already placed, like while you're boosting or overheated.


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#38
Lightangel112

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Allow me to drop this in here ;)

 

http://hawken.heroku...r/Lightangel112



#39
Meraple

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I've managed to get pretty good killstreaks (6-10) by following people going to heal (especially light mechs) and firing a secondary shot first, then releasing my charged shot from my EOC this way, the EOC pred shot makes it to the mech about the same time as the primary EOC (I used to be all breacher, but then I saw the EOC's potential when a guy dominated a match with it)

Breacher is the best weapon for Predator in general, there's no argueing that.

For more specific playstyles however I can see why you'd like the EOC R.

 

 

As it is, a good Predator player can get an instant kill on a Scout, Berzerker, Tech or Reaper with full health and leave any B or C-Class with very little health at all.  This is done by strategically laying down all of your pucks in a specific spot and then adding a full volley from the EOC Repeater in the same place - then watching that spot (preferably while cloaked) and detonating when someone steps near it.  And if you're close enough when that happens, anyone that happens to escape instant death is just one good shot away from their demise.

I don't see why a good Predator would lay down a large trap like that at all and then even wait.

The maximum amount of pucks may have decreased, but laying down 8 of them still takes a while.

Also worth noting that your trap will self-destruct once you hit the terrain with another puck, most likely in combat.

 

Personally if I ever lay a trap I do it with 3 pucks at maximum.

It's fast, does a decent amount of damage and won't blow up the moment I hit terrain with another puck.

 

 

For people who are giving advice, that's nice and all, but there's something called the Ultimate Predator Guide for a reason.

:tongue:


Edited by Meraple, 06 April 2015 - 06:26 AM.

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#40
vonbach

vonbach

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As far as I've seen the main use for the Predator is standing as far as possible and firing

hockey pucks on the objectives in siege or missile assault. At least thats how most people use

it.






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