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What advantage could Scanners have, instead of seeing walking players through walls?

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#1
GreyFa1con

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Scanners aren't much fun.

What's an alternative benefit scanners could have, instead of being a legal wallhack?

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#2
Hyginos

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It could be removed from the game and it's HC price refunded. That seems like a pretty beneficial thing.

 

Seriously though, one of the scanner rework ideas I'm fond of would be combining turrets and scanners together by giving turrets significantly improved spotting abilities and nixing scanner altogether.


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#3
SatelliteJack

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..combining turrets and scanners together by giving turrets significantly improved spotting abilities...


Or having then work in tandem. Leave turrets as they are, but give boosted stats if in a scanner's radius?

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#4
GreyFa1con

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Another option. Give scanners near unlimited line-of-sight radar range.

So the goal would be to put it wide out in the open. Or high up, on the corner of a building.

Then just raise it's health, or make it harder to get the red "enemy scanner" label to pop up.

Could also make it so you could deploy 3x of these simultaneously, without destructing the previous ones.

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#5
ticklemyiguana

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Instead of a radar dish, convert it to a different animation, and make the duration one to three seconds so as to be used in a firefight, similar to a health orb, emp, detonator, etc.


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#6
InkaLord

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Scanners, as defensive items, are a way of evening things up for snipers and slow mechs vs. those annoying scouts / infils / Zerkers.

When a scanner detects and enemy, it emits a sound that gives us some prrrrreciousssss moments to evade or set up for an incoming enemy that wants to flank our arses.

It can even detect the position of Predators which, in my case, is an even cooler way to counter the "invisibility" on those assholes. 

 

Also, leaving one behind will alert you and your team when an enemy passes by, even if you are outside of its range, so having a few of those laying around is quite beneficial for the whole team.

 

Additional benefits? I don't see why we would need those... whoever uses scanners (the right way) has an enormous advantage already.

 

You can either love or hate them but I still think scanners are useful, especially for those of us who can't afford to go 1-on-1 cqc due to high ping or hardware limitations.

 

Aaaaaand, as I remember, its detection range was nerfed a few months back so I wouldn't expect additional nerfing anytime soon.

 

Anyway, I'm not a pro by any means but just wanted to leave my 2 cents here.

 

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#7
GreyFa1con

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Instead of a radar dish, convert it to a different animation, and make the duration one to three seconds so as to be used in a firefight, similar to a health orb, emp, detonator, etc.


That's actually pretty interesting.

Instead of making it a deployable that boosts all players, you could just have it be an instant ability that boosts one player.

Just have the same "ability" flash on the players hud, and then have a little light green glow highlight around the radar.

Which disappears as soon as the radar boost goes away.

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#8
ticklemyiguana

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Scanners, as defensive items, are a way of evening things up for snipers and slow mechs vs. those annoying scouts / infils / Zerkers.

When a scanner detects and enemy, it emits a sound that gives us some prrrrreciousssss moments to evade or set up for an incoming enemy that wants to flank our arses.

It can even detect the position of Predators which, in my case, is an even cooler way to counter the "invisibility" on those assholes. 

 

Also, leaving one behind will alert you and your team when an enemy passes by, even if you are outside of its range, so having a few of those laying around is quite beneficial for the whole team.

 

Additional benefits? I don't see why we would need those... whoever uses scanners (the right way) has an enormous advantage already.

 

You can either love or hate them but I still think scanners are useful, especially for those of us who can't afford to go 1-on-1 cqc due to high ping or hardware limitations.

 

Aaaaaand, as I remember, its detection range was nerfed a few months back so I wouldn't expect additional nerfing anytime soon.

 

Anyway, I'm not a pro by any means but just wanted to leave my 2 cents here.

 

Long Live Hawken!

You uh.. missed.

 

The discussion is "instead of removing them due to the fact that they're obscene and OP, what could they do instead to avoid removing them entirely."


Edited by ticklemyiguana, 26 October 2015 - 11:37 AM.

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#9
CraftyDus

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Scanners could be made to perform like turrets that spit out holotaunts every 7 seconds until the user dies


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#10
InkaLord

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You uh.. missed.

 

The discussion is "instead of removing them due to the fact that they're obscene and OP, what could they do instead to avoid removing them entirely."

I know what he meant... I just don't think we need to nerf or remove them or even modify them AT ALL. That's the point I was trying to make with that long ass comment. Sorry if I wasn't clear, English is not my thing.



#11
GreyFa1con

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Instead of a radar dish, convert it to a different animation, and make the duration one to three seconds so as to be used in a firefight, similar to a health orb, emp, detonator, etc.


Actually now that I think about it.

Wouldn't it be easiest option just be to keep it as-is.

But make it destruct in 5-10 seconds.
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#12
ticklemyiguana

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Actually now that I think about it.

Wouldn't it be easiest option just be to keep it as-is.

But make it destruct in 5-10 seconds.

Sure it'd be easiest. I just think the animation and model need a rework if it's going to be a short period of time. 5-10 seconds of omniscience for an entire team is still a little high though. The scanner's been broken for so long, my personal opinion is to work it from the ground up - not risking it being OP, as when it is, as it is now, practically the entire population of the game that devotes significant energy into theory crafting and determining appropriate use just boycotts it.

 

 

I know what he meant... I just don't think we need to nerf or remove them or even modify them AT ALL. That's the point I was trying to make with that long ass comment. Sorry if I wasn't clear, English is not my thing.

 

Scanner is wallhacks for an entire team for an extended period of time and range. No item, weapon, mech, or any mechanic in the game comes close in terms of having that affect - the scrambler being a runner up in terms of range, time, and team, but the effect itself is considered next to negligible without stacking them. The predator is worth debate, but it is explicitly limited to a single, out of combat mech with reduced visibility at range.

 

The scanner is not negligible in its effect nor does it provide the user with any detriments, nor is it limited to a single player.

 

It has been banned in every season of Hawken's NA comp league for all of the above reasons.

 

While its effects are not as obvious to newer players, there are options to balance the item and make it more engaging at every tier of play.


Edited by ticklemyiguana, 26 October 2015 - 12:06 PM.

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#13
nepacaka

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It can even detect the position of Predators which, in my case, is an even cooler way to counter the "invisibility" on those assholes.

Optical camouflage not give you invisibility, firstly pred/infil abilities should "guarantee" you a "anti-radar" function, and enemy not see you at radar. That's how it working before, and that's how it should working.
In some sense, I think, it is completely broken now.

Invisibility is actually not an invisibility like many people think. It is only hide on radar. G2 raider ability is also some sort of invisibility, but it is not working now, even without scanner :(

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#14
GreyFa1con

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Here's a dumb question.

How useful would a stupid amount of range, but otherwise completely normal radar detection?

Like say, detecting a boosting enemy at 500m.


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Edited by GreyFa1con, 26 October 2015 - 12:13 PM.

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#15
ticklemyiguana

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Here's a dumb question.

How useful would a stupid amount of range, but otherwise completely normal radar detection?

Define completely normal?


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#16
GreyFa1con

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Define completely normal?


Can detect boosts/gunfire through walls, and line of sight.

But walking Mechs don't show up.

And for a "stupid amount of range", I'm thinking half the map on Bazaar.

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#17
ticklemyiguana

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Can detect boosts/gunfire through walls, and line of sight.

But walking Mechs don't show up.

And for a "stupid amount of range", I'm thinking half the map on Bazaar.

Gotcha. That honestly might be a little underpowered, as radar has a limit to its usefulness when you take into account that at range, people are likely to move by the time you have any opportunity to use that information to your advantage. I mean, I could see well coordinated teams getting some use out of it, but not a ton.

 

Totally open for debate though.


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#18
GreyFa1con

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Another option, to take on yours, with a bit more visual flair.

Would it be OP if it gave 1-3 seconds of Predator vision.

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#19
maxajcd

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maybe make it ping the radar every few seconds, kinda like cod radars, and if thats too powerful, make it so it tells the enemy that they are being scanned, also it could just give a notification of someone in its range but not a precise location.


I do appreciate the art, but I don't have time to find anything good. /h/


#20
nepacaka

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Totally open for debate though.

Just need to nerf it into oblivion :D
Easy. Without changed game mechanics and tonnes of programming.

1 - Just decrease range.
2 - Then maybe need a think about reworking if it required/not enough.

Edited by nepacaka, 26 October 2015 - 12:30 PM.

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#21
Hyginos

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Someone also mentioned making it another spinning top that would reveal positions for a second or so at its impact location.


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#22
maxajcd

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or have it so you need many scanners to triangulate a radar area, and they can only be connected by a certain range to for it to be very useful, you need a whole team running it setting up a network.


I do appreciate the art, but I don't have time to find anything good. /h/


#23
GreyFa1con

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Someone also mentioned making it another spinning top that would reveal positions for a second or so at its impact location.


Ooh if it's a projectile, or maybe make it similar to a TOW rocket, and have it deploy to any flat surface.

That way if you're at a front line, or a corner-play battle, you can sneakily shoot it around the corner to have it inform in the baddies behind it.

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#24
CraftyDus

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Scanners could be made to perform the chicken dance song/never gonna give you up/it's raining men/ etc for 7 seconds before perishing and a new one can be thrown.


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#25
Sylhiri

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Someone also mentioned making it another spinning top that would reveal positions for a second or so at its impact location.

 

I like this. When it explodes it sends out a ripple (visual) revealing positions within a set distance for a second. I think if you hit the mech directly, it should highlight all enemy mechs (radar got compremised) for 1-2 seconds as an incentive for skill shots.

 

But please, no more spinning tops. They look so lammmmmmeeeeee.



#26
Nept

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Scanners could chemically castrate the people who purchase and use them.


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#27
_incitatus

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Scanners should chemically castrate the people who purchase and use them.


FTFY.

Edited by (thc)_incitatus, 26 October 2015 - 03:05 PM.

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#28
HugeGuts

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Ideas I like:

 

Scanner only affects the deploying player and has a very short run time.

Scanner now increases radar range of friendly players in its influence instead of giving wallhacks.

 

I like the Scanner Grenade idea as well, but I would rather have that be a separate item if the regular Scanner can have other fixes.


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#29
Nightfirebolt

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I have conflicting opinions about scanners.

 

On the one hand, they make sense as a strategic support item in Siege and MA, allowing you to effectively detect incoming enemies that are approaching the objectives

 

On the other hand, they only serve to give people pseudo-wallhacking capabilities in DM and Team DM with no inherent strategic value; they simply provide an unfair tactical advantage.

 

So maybe we need to remove them from team DM and deathmatch, and keep them for the other modes?

 

Let's keep in mind that scanners can be "countered" by scramblers, too. Perhaps the solution to this dilemma is simply to improve this functionality - i.e., scramblers would completely disable the scanner altogether, instead of simply muddling it with false positives.


Edited by Nightfirebolt, 26 October 2015 - 03:28 PM.


#30
WmMoneyFrmMissouri

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I think scanners have their place in the game. I found it to be a great tool when I was still trying to get my bearings on the maps. I got to a certain point in my game play though where it wasnt necessary and I dropped it.

Just because I don't use the scanner doesn't make it useful to a lot of players. Sure some are better than me and having that tool gives them an advantage but a lot aren't and it gives them a chance. I'm ok with that.

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#31
6ixxer

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I think they should ping at 3sec intervals and fade quickly (similar to if they fire a single shot).

If they boost to you then they show up anyway, so it should be balanced based on a walking mech.

Range should be about the distance where the slowest A class can walk to you in 6 sec. So there is potential that you get only 1 ping on an A class approaching.

 

I think range based on slowest B class distance in 6 sec might* be too short. If similar to the current distance then it that would be fine.

 

In low tier fights they would still have value, in high tier they would have less value, but they would probably still be banned in those.
 



#32
eth0

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Replace boring dish scanner with a drone bot from coop that hangs out where you release it. The bot only pings to you what it's "looking" at. Adjustments to FOV and aimbot pending.

 

Now hurry up with those item drones reloaded.


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Pubstomping is a whole different strategic discussion, however, and usually just becomes an exploration of the ethics of dumpstering randos.

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#33
Silverfire

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Sensor grenade, functions like a GL, shoots out like one, but instead bursts out a sort of radar explosion that'll give you complete radar awareness within a certain radius for like 5 seconds.


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#34
Odinous

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Instead of a radar dish, convert it to a different animation, and make the duration one to three seconds so as to be used in a firefight, similar to a health orb, emp, detonator, etc.

This or make it scan to all directions,but if hit any walls or an obstacle,it wont show up the player behind it..



#35
StubbornPuppet

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Sorry guys, but this topic is about opinions on how to fix an actual problem that exists in Hawken and, therefore, will be locked soon.


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To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#36
maxajcd

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Sorry guys, but this topic is about opinions on how to fix an actual problem that exists in Hawken and, therefore, will be locked soon.

wait im kind of new why do threads get locked?


I do appreciate the art, but I don't have time to find anything good. /h/


#37
GreyFa1con

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Instead of a radar dish, convert it to a different animation, and make the duration one to three seconds so as to be used in a firefight, similar to a health orb, emp, detonator, etc.

But please, no more spinning tops. They look so lammmmmmeeeeee.

Replace boring dish scanner with a drone bot from coop that hangs out where you release it.

Hold up. Mix those ideas.

What if you could "shoot" a drone, similar to a detonator projectile. However, when it hits a hard surface, it just kinda does a 180 and hovers there chilling. (Including ceilings)

Which has normal radar capabilities of a friendly Mech. However, the kicker is that the radar is active while it's midflight. So you could shoot it around corners, during a firefight.

Would also give people another robot looking thing to shoot at in TDM. (Fun!)

That'd be pretty badas$.

_

Edited by GreyFa1con, 29 October 2015 - 08:30 AM.

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#38
Hyginos

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wait im kind of new why do threads get locked?

 

Stubbornpuppet is just being a sarcastic fuzzy bunny. We've just had a few threads get out of hand recently and end up locked.


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#39
maxajcd

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Stubbornpuppet is just being a sarcastic fuzzy bunny. We've just had a few threads get out of hand recently and end up locked.

oo haha ok


I do appreciate the art, but I don't have time to find anything good. /h/


#40
maxajcd

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Sensor grenade, functions like a GL, shoots out like one, but instead bursts out a sort of radar explosion that'll give you complete radar awareness within a certain radius for like 5 seconds.

CoD Bo2 much


I do appreciate the art, but I don't have time to find anything good. /h/





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