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#1
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

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The weapon HC pricing was recently increased.
The per-match HC reward cap was increased.
New-user HC rewards was increased.

I require data to analyze these changes. Please help provide this data.

Does anyone have the old HC weapon prices? (Otherwise I will rely on the Salty Stats spreadsheet.)

Does anyone have the new HC weapon prices?

Does anyone have the new HC match reward cap?

---

Here are my first impressions:

1) It is great that the new user HC gain has been improved. More data will help measure how much help that will provide.

2) Increased per match HC cap lowers the grind required and better rewards staying in games.

3) The weapon price increase is a step backward in terms of both grind and user exclusive. Depending on the exact values of the new pricing, this change may have even completely negated the grind-reduction of the earlier average HC price per mech reduction, or worse, made the grind even worse in terms of net change.

4) Now in terms of user experience, new users will also be confronted with high weapon prices, which will serve as a barrier to access of new content and on some mechs, significant play style changes.

5) Ultimately I remain confused with this apparent pattern of two steps forward, one step backward approach to HC.

Edited by WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW, 04 August 2015 - 04:10 PM.

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Thank you for your time,

 

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#2
crockrocket

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Were weapon prices increased? I don't remember that. 

 

I do think the increased HC gain, both from achievements and per min, is a step towards improving the new player experience and therefore player retention. Is it still a little too grindy? Quite possibly. More data is needed, as you say.

 

EDIT: derrrp I see that now in the weekly update. In that case it does seem a bit like two steps forward, one step back


Edited by (TDM)crockrocket, 04 August 2015 - 04:26 PM.

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#3
Aregon

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5) Ultimately I remain confused with this apparent pattern of two steps forward, one step backward approach to HC.

The lower expectations, the better reaction when something very positive happens.


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#4
Amidatelion

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Here's a great idea: swap the underdog bonus from EXP to HC.

 

Ditches the bloody irritating "this smurf just outscored me by 100pts in DM," gets new players more HC faster, rewards players with something fuzzing useful for doing relatively well, gets smurfs into mechs of their choice faster, cancels out once players get to level thirty, promoting MC purchases amongst economy inbetweeners.

 

NO ONE LOSES.


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#5
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

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I think smurfing should result in losing all HC tbh.

 

IIRC, previous cap was 120. It is now apparently 170. Delta is +50.


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#6
Hijinks_The_Turtle

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Here's a great idea: swap the underdog bonus from EXP to HC.

 

Ditches the bloody irritating "this smurf just outscored me by 100pts in DM," gets new players more HC faster, rewards players with something fuzzing useful for doing relatively well, gets smurfs into mechs of their choice faster, cancels out once players get to level thirty, promoting MC purchases amongst economy inbetweeners.

 

NO ONE LOSES.

Can the devs frame this on a wall?  This is pretty good thinking.



#7
fAEth

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Here's a great idea: swap the underdog bonus from EXP to HC.

 

Ditches the bloody irritating "this smurf just outscored me by 100pts in DM," gets new players more HC faster, rewards players with something fuzzing useful for doing relatively well, gets smurfs into mechs of their choice faster, cancels out once players get to level thirty, promoting MC purchases amongst economy inbetweeners.

 

NO ONE LOSES.

 

This is BRILLIANT.


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#8
Hyginos

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Here's a great idea: swap the underdog bonus from EXP to HC.

 

Ditches the bloody irritating "this smurf just outscored me by 100pts in DM," gets new players more HC faster, rewards players with something fuzzing useful for doing relatively well, gets smurfs into mechs of their choice faster, cancels out once players get to level thirty, promoting MC purchases amongst economy inbetweeners.

 

NO ONE LOSES.

 

Under dog bonuses allow smurfs to get to a reasonable MMR more quickly, so I'm not totally sold.


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#9
Amidatelion

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Under dog bonuses allow smurfs to get to a reasonable MMR more quickly, so I'm not totally sold.

 

Your maximum gain is 50. They're not that useful when you're hitting your max gain until you're almost out of 1900.



#10
ThirdEyE

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I think the idea behind these changes is alright.  Even if the weapon price increase negates the increased income for new players, it will effectively reduce the price of everything else.  Previously items and internals cost way too much relative to weapons and mechs, and were probably causing too important of a choice between weapons and everything else.

 

Hopefully this new economy will allow new players to invest in fully outfitting each of their mechs in addition to aquiring new mechs.


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#11
Boospengi

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I believe old weapon prices were around 2723 HC (might be off on the last digit). New prices are 4130 HC.


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#12
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

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I believe old weapon prices were around 2723 HC (might be off on the last digit). New prices are 4130 HC.

If this is the case, then each weapon requires an additional 9 matches to accumulate enough HC to purchase and each mech requires an additional 18 matches to fully outfit.

I'm somewhat disappointed.

Edited by WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW, 05 August 2015 - 04:44 AM.

Thank you for your time,

 

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#13
Hyginos

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If this is the case, then each weapon requires an additional 9 matches to accumulate enough HC to purchase and each mech requires an additional 18 matches to fully outfit.

I'm somewhat disappointed.

 

There's so much front loaded HC now that I think it's at least mostly justified. Players can get a new mech or two within a few hours of starting the game at this point, depending on how well they play.


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#14
Hijinks_The_Turtle

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If this is the case, then each weapon requires an additional 9 matches to accumulate enough HC to purchase and each mech requires an additional 18 matches to fully outfit.

I'm somewhat disappointed.

Even with the HC changes?



#15
StubbornPuppet

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In general, I really hate to "grind" in video games.

 

However, I feel that the grind in Hawken is and always has been pretty spot on.  It has been my observation that, when I buy a new mech using HC, it takes me the whole grind through it's levels before I actually really have a good grasp on how to use it well and can be competitive with it.  The point where I have enough HC to buy another mech comes at almost exactly the same time as I finish ranking up and unlocking all the weapons for the current mech.

 

I don't know how much more ideal that could be.


Edited by StubbornPuppet, 05 August 2015 - 11:26 AM.

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#16
comic_sans

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In general, I really hate to "grind" in video games.

 

However, I feel that the grind in Hawken is and always has been pretty spot on.

 

 

Mneeeeeehhhhhh, not quite.  The Silence had some pretty fuzzy bunny effort-to-gain ratios.  I like the frontloading now, though; once you have to grind, you have a buncha mechs to do it in.


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#17
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Even with the HC changes?

Yes.

 

 

Mneeeeeehhhhhh, not quite.  The Silence had some pretty fuzzy bunny effort-to-gain ratios.  I like the frontloading now, though; once you have to grind, you have a buncha mechs to do it in.

 

I detest grind. It is a terrible excuse to get money out of players. It is a fundamentally broken concept. It in tandem with the paywall and matchmaking system is incompatible with the goal of balanced competition. The way it is implemented, as a paywall to gameplay mechanics, also increases frustration given that iin this system, payments are now required for both gameplay mechanics and cosmetic options.

 

In any case, I plan never to pay for any gameplay elements in Hawken, nor do I ever pay for gameplay elements in other games. Microtransactions for gameplay options almost automatically devalue a game's quality in my eyes unless this payment is upfront, especially in the field of F2P.


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#18
talon70

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It seems like the economic strategy so far has been to make the grind hard enough that some will buy MC , but not so hard that players quit. I think it would work better to get people hooked on the game and  it should be still be even easier for new pilots to feel they are progressing. Maybe add  more boost like NEWRECRUIT in the future in addition to making the prices have some logic to them. 


Edited by talon70, 05 August 2015 - 03:02 PM.


#19
Hijinks_The_Turtle

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It seems like the economic strategy so far has been to make the grind hard enough that some will buy MC , but not so hard that players quit. I think it would work better to get people hooked on the game and  it should be still be even easier for new pilots to feel they are progressing. Maybe add  more boost like NEWRECRUIT in the future in addition to making the prices have some logic to them. 

The problem is that the grind was already ridiculous.  I've already seen far too many complaints about it...



#20
Browno

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Start a new acc, play 3 games and have 30k hc from all achievements. I think it is good for new players
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