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#41
ticklemyiguana

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If you can after before handle a bong then I need to know who your dealer is.

gold thanks


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#42
CoshCaust

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Do you even play Hawken?? The hellfires suck so badly they lose track of objects in plain sight that dodge a few meters sideways, or simply jump while the missiles are in flight. Why on earth would you assume that they can only regain a lock if you stood at exactly the same place they lost acquisition? They lose lock all the time on their own AND NEVER REGAIN IT.... EVER.  Real life weapons systems would adjust accordingly in flight and would never lose a lock in that sort of simple situation.

Also, if the system used infrared detection, a little bit of cover isn't going to be enough for the system to lose acquisition. You'd be just as visible in front of the cover as behind it. For example, think about how a predator can still see through very thick walls and structures, infrared detection is no different.

Well golly friend, your jimmies may be getting rustlier than necessary. From my understanding, the missiles don't lose lock until, well, exploding; but i might be wrong and haven't noticed simply because they usually explode right after getting to cover anyway. Will be testing this in a minute.

Um...no they wouldn't. You think if i dodge and boost, real life missiles would just do a U turn on a dime and still hit me? Lol.

 

You don't have to have two way communications between the HUD and the missile, this is the fundamental basis for "fire and forget", the missile has everything it needs once its left the pylon of the aircraft.

 

I'm not sure why you are trying to figure out the lore of how hellfires work.  The fact is they detect any mech, cloaked or not, who cares.

I know...i never implied you would have two-way communication...i never even implied you'd have one-way communication [after firing]. I explained very clearly that you do have one-way communication before firing (missile says "i see bad guy beep beep"), and for some reason the data being sent from the ordinance's systems is bare minimum, when the same amount of work would go into sending all the data being collected rather than just beeps. The rocket sees potential lock, why is it not sending all the data it acquired to conclude a lock when it's already sending a notification (the cockpit beeps)? Makes no sense at all.

The attitude of "who cares" is probably why you can't figure this out- it's not that you can't, it's that you're not even trying.

Like i said, it's perfectly reasonable to take the side of "fuzzy bunny logic, it's a video game, leave it because it works." I'm simply here to point out the fact that the current implementation of Hellfires is illogical, and i don't like that.



#43
WmMoneyFrmMissouri

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If you can after before handle a bong then I need to know who your dealer is.


I'll tell you what you give me 50 bones and I'll deliver 30 clams... It's that good though ;)

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#44
SS396

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Well golly friend, your jimmies may be getting rustlier than necessary.

No.

From my understanding, the missiles don't lose lock until, well, exploding; but i might be wrong and haven't noticed simply because they usually explode right after getting to cover anyway. Will be testing this in a minute.

Yeah, get to testing, then come back with some actual information on how they work (or how they work badly) in game. That'll help things move forward tremendously.

Um...no they wouldn't. You think if i dodge and boost, real life missiles would just do a U turn on a dime and still hit me? Lol.

No, thats retarded. No respectable weapons system would ever pass by a target and need to do a U turn. Tracking targets is more sophisticated than what you are thinking. Simple fin adjustments in flight can alter a flightpath by thousands of feet by the time it reaches a target. How a real life system works is it would simply adjust a few fins or vector the thrust and make a perfect hit every time.

I know...i never implied you would have two-way communication...i never even implied you'd have one-way communication [after firing]. I explained very clearly that you do have one-way communication before firing (missile says "i see bad guy beep beep"), and for some reason the data being sent from the ordinance's systems is bare minimum, when the same amount of work would go into sending all the data being collected rather than just beeps. The rocket sees potential lock, why is it not sending all the data it acquired to conclude a lock when it's already sending a notification (the cockpit beeps)? Makes no sense at all.

No. You are commanding the missiles to begin a scan, once it returns that it has found something of value, it queues a beep indicating a valid launch parameter. The missiles do not automatically detect any mechs, it requires you (the pilot) to actively hit middle mouse button to begin the process for every lock on (unless you are retarded and in turret mode and even then the scans are automatic, but they are still required before a valid launch). If you don't ever hit MMB, the missiles will never lock on to anything.

The attitude of "who cares" is probably why you can't figure this out- it's not that you can't, it's that you're not even trying.
Like i said, it's perfectly reasonable to take the side of "fuzzy bunny logic, it's a video game, leave it because it works." I'm simply here to point out the fact that the current implementation of Hellfires is illogical, and i don't like that.


I've got it figured out, I've used them. I understand how it works the way it does and I don't have any issues with it at all.

[DELETED]

 

fuzzy bunny you CZeroFive 


#45
Nept

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Oh look.  SS is making friends again.


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#46
CoshCaust

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Yeah, get to testing, then come back with some actual information on how they work (or how they work badly) in game. That'll help things move forward tremendously.

Well..no it won't, because that was a less-than-necessary note on the list of reasons why the current Hellfire implementation is silly..but nice sass :)

 

No, thats retarded. No respectable weapons system would ever pass by a target and need to do a U turn. Tracking targets is more sophisticated than what you are thinking. Simple fin adjustments in flight can alter a flightpath by thousands of feet by the time it reaches a target. How a real life system works is it would simply adjust a few fins or vector the thrust and make a perfect hit every time.

So uh...then you actually think the Hellfire should just never miss unless they hit cover?

Hey leave me out of that discussion, that's not why i'm here.

 

No. You are commanding the missiles to begin a scan, once it returns that it has found something of value, it queues a beep indicating a valid launch parameter. The missiles do not automatically detect any mechs, it requires you (the pilot) to actively hit middle mouse button to begin the process for every lock on (unless you are retarded and in turret mode and even then the scans are automatic, but they are still required before a valid launch). If you don't ever hit MMB, the missiles will never lock on to anything.

There is no one single scan; there is in Hawken of course, yes, but the missile has to constantly know where the target is to adjust accordingly to a moving target- meaning the missile is continuously observing where the target is in relation to where the missile is moving, adjusting. That's what i'm referring to. This paragraph responded to an unrelated issue- miscommunication is a fuzzy bunny, haha.

 

I've got it figured out, I've used them. I understand how it works the way it does and I don't have any issues with it at all.

I just got out of a server testing this with a friend...the topic is now downright laughably illogical to me at this point. Either they made adjustments to the lock-on process since i last used the HF, or i never fully appreciated how silly they were. Either way, i was speaking in this whole thread a little bit ignorantly. Thing is, all the new information is simply worse than i thought.

 

The following text refers to this image:

http://i.imgur.com/6Bed5C9.jpg

So i guess...a player goes cloaked, and i can no longer see their glowing outline or text above them, but i can still wave the scan over them, get a lock on them, hold the lock NOWHERE NEAR my line of site, completely out of sight of the missiles themselves- then i can move to my right behind cover, blocking ALL sight of the CLOAKED enemy, aim outside the corner to my left and quickly fire, and the missiles connect.

gHCl8Ix.jpg

 

Am i taking crazy pills?? How is anyone defending this pure insanity??


Edited by CoshCaust, 18 December 2015 - 10:32 PM.


#47
SS396

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There is no one single scan; there is in Hawken of course, yes, but the missile has to constantly know where the target is to adjust accordingly to a moving target- meaning the missile is continuously observing where the target is in relation to where the missile is moving, adjusting. That's what i'm referring to. This paragraph responded to an unrelated issue- miscommunication is a fuzzy bunny, haha.


Yes, there is only one single scan, you have to initiate it before every locked on launch with MMB like I said before. What you have tried to explain isn't a scan, that is called in flight tracking, tracking happens after the missiles have launched and are in flight. Please use the correct terms so that your thoughts are clear and concise.
  

I just got out of a server testing this with a friend...the topic is now downright laughably illogical to me at this point. Either they made adjustments to the lock-on process since i last used the HF, or i never fully appreciated how silly they were. Either way, i was speaking in this whole thread a little bit ignorantly. Thing is, all the new information is simply worse than i thought.


If you just got out of a match testing with your friend, the lock-on process shouldn't of changed since the last time you used the HF's. That doesn't even make sense, there hasn't been a patch to change gameplay in over a year. How would something of changed in only a few minutes? Did you actually test them or not?
  

So i guess...a player goes cloaked, and i can no longer see their glowing outline or text above them, but i can still wave the scan over them, get a lock on them, hold the lock NOWHERE NEAR my line of site, completely out of sight of the missiles themselves- then i can move to my right behind cover, blocking ALL sight of the CLOAKED enemy, aim outside the corner to my left and quickly fire, and the missiles connect.


Remember, you locked on to him before you repositioned? You trained the missiles that theres something in the general area for them to target. Why wouldn't they fly away and begin tracking your stationary target? He should be right where the missiles thought he was.

Also, theres a limit on how far you can pivot left or right from LOS to maintain lock. I really doubt you pivoted far enough for it to be "NOWHERE NEAR your line of sight". If I remember correctly the limit is around 30 to 40 degrees max, with a 105 degree FOV, thats nowhere near off screen and out of line of sight.

And lastly, you would only connect and do damage if the target stands COMPLETELY still, so great job on explaining how to use hellfires against noobs that don't understand what the incoming warning sound is. Any other decent Hawken player would of dodged or moved to cover the instant they heard the incoming warnings, making your hellfire launch break lock and rendering your launch completely useless. That is why hellfires suck, its way to easy to break lock, and the missiles give an audio warning that is easily countered.

Sorry for ignoring the rest of your post, I'm kinda short on time at the moment, and have to be really brief.

[DELETED]

 

fuzzy bunny you CZeroFive 


#48
crockrocket

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inb4 loc


                                                                    JgQjgkx.png

 

Salvage: An Idea to Stop Leavers

Player Retention & Howken

 

[14:31] <Crafty> I know that in my balls
[14:32] <Crafty> hawken is unlike anything Ive played

 

 


#49
CoshCaust

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Yes, there is only one single scan, you have to initiate it before every locked on launch with MMB like I said before. What you have tried to explain isn't a scan, that is called in flight tracking, tracking happens after the missiles have launched and are in flight. Please use the correct terms so that your thoughts are clear and concise.

I never used the word 'scan' until you did; you used it, and i was never meaning to refer to the initial scan at all. There was a miscommunication that made you bring the scan up, and now there's another one based on the first one...

Boy we sure are good at miscommunicating :)

 

If you just got out of a match testing with your friend, the lock-on process shouldn't of changed since the last time you used the HF's. That doesn't even make sense, there hasn't been a patch to change gameplay in over a year. How would something of changed in only a few minutes? Did you actually test them or not?

Whuh? I literally never use Hellfires- like i almost certainly haven't used them in a year. After using them on my friend earlier to test details, i was surprised because i either was incorrectly remembering their functionality, or they had been changed since i used them last.

It's unimportant.

 

Remember, you locked on to him before you repositioned? You trained the missiles that theres something in the general area for them to target. Why wouldn't they fly away and begin tracking your stationary target? He should be right where the missiles thought he was.

Also, theres a limit on how far you can pivot left or right from LOS to maintain lock. I really doubt you pivoted far enough for it to be "NOWHERE NEAR your line of sight". If I remember correctly the limit is around 30 to 40 degrees max, with a 105 degree FOV, thats nowhere near off screen and out of line of sight.

And lastly, you would only connect and do damage if the target stands COMPLETELY still, so great job on explaining how to use hellfires against noobs that don't understand what the incoming warning sound is. Any other decent Hawken player would of dodged or moved to cover the instant they heard the incoming warnings, making your hellfire launch break lock and rendering your launch completely useless. That is why hellfires suck, its way to easy to break lock, and the missiles give an audio warning that is easily countered.

Sorry for ignoring the rest of your post, I'm kinda short on time at the moment, and have to be really brief.

 

Nah it's fine, in a way i'm ignoring those last four paragraphs [though i read them] because i realized such detail is unnecessary; here's why:

Look at that image i linked.

Why

Why oh why

WhereforeartthouRomeo in the world is it that, as soon as the enemy cloaks, the text and outline in 'enemy' colors disappears, but the fat circle saying 'LOCKED' in 'enemy' colors remains.

How is it that the cloaking ability nullifies all the other targeting systems pointing Mr. Cloaky out- but this one remains?

Tthe weapon cannot see the enemy (it's facing a wall, just look at the picture), so there's no argument for "The weapon's lock system is detecting the enemy, not the mech's."

 

Like imagine the engineer's footnotes on this 'cloaking' system:

"Does that stereotypical three-fourths-assed invis thing where the hull is mostly invisible, but the ridges are shimmery and bend light a little; you've seen it in video games.

Allows mech to make maneuvers which would otherwise alert enemy radar- no damn clue what's causing that (radar is based off movement??).

Enemy cockpit-derived targeting systems no longer detect name and outline...but uh, it still tracks and locks on, just with no name/outline...again no explanation.

Bastard's a mystery. Brought this his cloaking mechanism [if you can call it that] into existence via an alcohol-fueled attempt to see how many electrical components from the garage i could get to physically connect- which included the seven heated blankets we ended up using to wrap around the mech chasis for the final result. Honestly i don't how i qualified for the position i'm in."

 

It's inexplicable. Really think it over. I'm not trying to defend my opinion that cloaked mechs shouldn't be vulnerable to lock-on, i'm just laying out logic here.


Edited by CoshCaust, 19 December 2015 - 02:49 AM.


#50
SS396

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How is it that the cloaking ability nullifies all the other targeting systems pointing Mr. Cloaky out- but this one remains?
Tthe weapon cannot see the enemy (it's facing a wall, just look at the picture), so there's no argument for "The weapon's lock system is detecting the enemy, not the mech's."


Easy, because the two systems must not use the same extremely simplistic method of detection you are relying on for the basis of your argument. If they did, then cloaking would knock out both systems, but it doesn't therefore it must be that it doesn't work the same way as the one system it nullifies.

I think you need to do some more testing. Have you ever noticed that hellfires will fly right into an obstacle such as a wall in between the missiles and the enemy? Obviously if they are still tracking said enemy behind a wall, the walls must be invisible to them, otherwise they would of lost lock on, right?

 

It's inexplicable. Really think it over. I'm not trying to defend my opinion that cloaked mechs shouldn't be vulnerable to lock-on, i'm just laying out logic here.


Then what are you doing besides trying to apply logic to a make believe world of a video game?

[DELETED]

 

fuzzy bunny you CZeroFive 


#51
TheButtSatisfier

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Where is all the ammunition / fuel stored?


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8) Tech in the streets, Brawler in the sheets (8


#52
Amidatelion

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Where is all the ammunition / fuel stored?

 

Fuel is generated from a brick of rat poop stored in some compartment of the mech, accessed by the thrusters for reaction mass and fuel converters for neutral matter to catalyze.

 

Ammo is constructed on the fly by nanomachines hard-coded to assemble the requisite parts from surrounding material.

 

One of these things is true/cannonical.


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#53
coldform

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We need to stop trying to form opinions based on our own reasoning and experience without first consulting SS. It seems that the vast majority of us have our points of view cross-eyed, or are not articulating them correctly.

Edited by (TDM)coldform, 19 December 2015 - 03:11 PM.

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I like going against the best of any game I play. Helps you in the long run n motivates u to do more. Always room for improvement not failure

z6aJAX7.png?1

 

czerofive-Today at 2:22 AM > got banned from playing lazertag - I used a knife to conserve ammo

FIRST OFF WHAT THE FUZZ IS A "SHILL"


#54
CoshCaust

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I think you need to do some more testing. Have you ever noticed that hellfires will fly right into an obstacle such as a wall in between the missiles and the enemy? Obviously if they are still tracking said enemy behind a wall, the walls must be invisible to them, otherwise they would of lost lock on, right?

I'm trying really hard to ignore the fact that a couple posts back, you were implying they do lose lock after going behind cover...as you can see i am not succeeding.

 

In more serious response to your entire post:

Thank god.

We finally made it.

The discussion is over.

Why didn't you just tell me earlier you were on the side of "It doesn't need to make sense, it's a video game."?? I told you it's a completely valid stance to have! It really is!

We really could've avoided a lot of typing :/


Edited by CoshCaust, 19 December 2015 - 02:43 PM.


#55
SS396

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I'm trying really hard to ignore the fact that a couple posts back, you were implying they do lose lock after going behind cover...as you can see i am not succeeding.


What? No. I said, dodging in plain sight breaks the lock. Moving to cover will simply place a shield between you and the missiles explosion.

[DELETED]

 

fuzzy bunny you CZeroFive 


#56
JackVandal

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As far as i know the hellfires track heat signatures, which is why they follow cloaked mechs, its also why pred vision sees cloaked mechs, also why it follows players through walls ect. personally, the bruiser ability isn't actually bad, though it is difficult to use efficiently, generally it relies on some degree of a mind game with an opponent, ie making them eat some self splash combined with a direct hit dumb-fire that you block.


"but the dead horse has been beaten so many times it's practically a pulpy mess in the barn by now."

-M1lkshake


#57
Spearkirby

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"Also Berserker should have two vulcans that shoot EMPs"

 

     - This guy, probably

actually that sounds stupid, and it wasn't me  even i know thats retarded



#58
DallasCreeper

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why can't this  hellfire-missiles.png be like this?  

agm114a_03.jpg06c2f996-fc62-483b-8c5e-c0


 

Spoiler

2XhpJes.png

Ridding the world of evil, one Berzerker at a time.


#59
StubbornPuppet

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why can't this  hellfire-missiles.png be like this?  

agm114a_03.jpg06c2f996-fc62-483b-8c5e-c0

 

Because Hawken takes place on Illal... trillions of miles from the nearest US Army supply depot. :P


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To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#60
DieselCat

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Because Hawken takes place on Illal... trillions of miles from the nearest US Army supply depot. :P

 LOL....very good  :tongue:

 

*+


Just Relax....and take life one game at a time....

Don't run to your death....walk

 

th_Duckman.jpg   th_82c0a97c-98de-4aac-be47-05e5e099be80.

 

*+

 


#61
ATX22

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Because Hawken takes place on Illal... trillions of miles from the nearest US Army supply depot. :P

 

But... Hawken...it... it's in the future!  With even more advanced high tech lighter than air mechs and whatever else they duct-tape together to make stuff.  Except for the hellfires, because "the great silence" after the "great nerf" that prevented the "great hellfire re-balance" or some nonsense.. I can't remember.






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