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#41
phed

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My favorite version of hawken was just after the reaper patch.

I really miss the old hud, and the way the reticle would change color when over an enemy target. Really helped the high ping players.

I liked the skill trees, just thought they could of used some tweaking.

Sticky shields was so funny, like in dm when you'd accidentally shield your enemy. I think it'd be even better now, and just hilarious without being game breaking as it was before. Shield stickiness should return, just leave the rest alone.

Edit and clarification:
That said, I think that hawken is in a good place now, and wouldn't want the newdevs to waste their resources on sweeping changes.

Edited by phed, 26 March 2015 - 06:40 PM.

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#42
Superkamikazee

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I had a very large group playing the game.  Meteor flew myself and my wife out to Boston and Seattle for multiple Pax events to help work the events and help sign people up. I am actually the person who introduced them to IPB and showed them how it would sync with the game better than the forum software they intended to you. I don't say these things to brag but, to point out how early on I was involved with the game.  I was one of the first 100, NON ADH MTR Employees, to get to play the game.   The game was utterly amazing in its Alpha stage.  It was simple, it was dirty, it was immersive and it was by all means absolutely fun.  This was when we had skill trees still.  The game lost a huge player base when they enabled flying and dodging in the air.  A lot of people bailed on the game when those features.  Many people told me the game lost its feel once you had giant fortresses turkeying about.  This game was at its best with quick ground play and slow air movement.  It used to be that if you went airborne you were toast.  We need to go back to that.   I really do miss this game and what it used to be.  I had such high hopes for the game and it seemed like they shattered it and went belly up.

 

 

Just to show you ...

https://fbcdn-sphoto...ed1823536bcd71d

 

I've always had a gut feeling that that's probably where the game should be, but with so many people pushing for faster, more flight, less sim than it already was, I was beginning to think I was wrong. But after taking a long break,  taking a step back then getting back into I think you're right. Things may have gotten out of control a bit here, at times there's just so much going on I can't even enjoy myself. Tonight in particular a few games were complete cluster fuzzy bunny fuzzy bunny shows, it was a mosh pit of explosions, I was kissing berserkers, I didn't even get any numbers.

 

It's gotten to the point that I purposely just walk around so I can hear and feel like I'm in a lumbering giant heavy mech. And this is happening (didn't realize till now) because I hardly even walk in this BIPEDAL MACHINE! I miss walking around, in a video game lololol. The majority of time in Hawken is spent boosting, dodging, and flying now. The legs barely even touch the ground haha. 

 

Also that poster is awesome. Nice work getting it framed, a frame makes all the difference.


Edited by Superkamikazee, 26 March 2015 - 06:56 PM.

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#43
Xacius

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The immersion in the cockpit was just awesome then. For all intent and purpose you felt like you were driving those things into battle. Yes it seams faster now but more clinical and somehow more removed.

 

It was definitely more immersive back then.  The HUD was fantastic, and Ascension took all of that away.  

 

I remember the first time that I launched Ascension (having been playing with the old HUD for more than half a year at that point), and despite the game being faster, it felt far less immersive than it was before.  The old HUD was more cluttered, sure, but it was also more involved.  

 

http://www.twitch.tv...2002402?t=92m30

 

#MakeTheOldHudAnOption


Edited by Xacius, 27 March 2015 - 09:01 PM.

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#44
OdinTheWise

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i liked the alpha build the most, granted there were lots of bugs and balance issues, it seemed to be the most fun


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We Can Dance If We Want To     

 

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#45
deidarall

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I liked the first few open beta builds. Cause I remember really liking the hud and how the game played. 


Edited by deidarall, 27 March 2015 - 09:18 PM.


#46
Rei

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I miss 7 second, not bouncing EOCs that explode on contact with a mile radius. That and AOE weapons stopping dodges in their place :3c


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#47
bacon_avenger

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i liked the alpha build the most, granted there were lots of bugs and balance issues, it seemed to be the most fun

I liked the first few open beta builds. Cause I remember really liking the hud and how the game played. 

 

The two builds I seem to hear referenced the most are alpha and closed beta 2.

 

As much as I'm in agreement with the idea of fixing things we have now instead of making sweeping changes (again!), I do have to admit that I would not mind seeing a return to either one of those builds and start rebuilding from there.


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Test dummy for science, Follower of Wheatons Law, usually hanging around #hawkenscrim and #spawn, occasional poster of YouTube videos and streaming.  Can also be found on twitter

 

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#48
davek1979

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I joined in January 2013, early OB.

 

Yes, there were problems. Yes, every new mech had its compulsory 1 month OP period.

 

BUT!!! The game was atmospheric, you FELT like you were piloting this 10-ton monster into battle. You could literally feel the WEIGHT of an imaginary mech surrounding you. Cockpit was great. Speed was right. TTK was RIGHT. Flying was dangerous. Rockets were deadly. Healing was needed. Tactics was a must. Community was great.  I could not play anything else for 4 months straight, every night it was Hawken.

 

Bring that back for my wallet.

 

Ditch these flying paperweights. If you want to cater for OR folks, make the old HUDs optional. My computer is more than ready to handle them.

These stale, stinking remnants of once-awesome Hawken make me sick. I am more than willing to support the game financially if the right steps are made towards awesomeness.


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#49
deidarall

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The two builds I seem to hear referenced the most are alpha and closed beta 2.

 

As much as I'm in agreement with the idea of fixing things we have now instead of making sweeping changes (again!), I do have to admit that I would not mind seeing a return to either one of those builds and start rebuilding from there.

 

 

 

Well sadly I can't comment on what I did not play ~_~. But open beta for me was the high light, cause while it was unbalanced in many many ways, it felt so good to play. Things felt heavy and abrasive, which is in high contrast to how it feels now. 

 

The TOWS felt great, the GL was scary, and fights were committed  to as apposed to this very very conman stalemates  caused by defensive air/orb lord play. And they ditched all of these things for reasons that are still unknown for me.

 

Again it is as those EU players in that interview said, patches just thur out old players, and did not bring new ones.   (Until steam, but I would argue that is cause it is steam, and even then not many players stuck round, mainly cause of lack of dev support and updates ofc)

 

It was definitely more immersive back then.  The HUD was fantastic, and Ascension took all of that away.  

 

I remember the first time that I launched Ascension (having been playing with the old HUD for more than half a year at that point), and despite the game being faster, it felt far less immersive than it was before.  The old HUD was more cluttered, sure, but it was also more involved.  

 

http://www.twitch.tv...2002402?t=92m30

 

#MakeTheOldHudAnOption

 

 

 

Also look at those duels! Look at that effective TTK, mannnn it looks so good. Without people pressing spaceeee unless it was for a better postion in map.... The fact there only seems to be one item, so people do not orb lord... How big the tows look.

 

tumblr_m25tdr0Dvl1r7juvi.gif

 

So many design choices and such were put into making that game, and nearly all of them are gone in favor... Of this... Idk it was not a perfect game back then, but man it hooked me.

 

ahh maybe it will never be the same.

 

please_don_t_leave_me_______grell_gif___


Edited by deidarall, 28 March 2015 - 07:25 AM.


#50
Mergaz

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It's simple: old devs heard the wrong group of players and the game almost died ...  Let's see if the new DEVs will still hear the wrong group of players and keep the stupid gameplay now or will do something that really makes Hawken an epic F2P that possess millions of fans as was the initial objective. DEVs can not settle for low numbers of players and do not change the game to another course will continue embittering those pathetic numbers of players online.

PS: I started playing in the OB start, but it was a good time ... 2k players and promising development ... Now we have this metagame pig barely keep 500 players online, even in steam.


Edited by Mergaz, 28 March 2015 - 07:28 AM.

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#51
FRX23

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I joined the very first day of open beta.

 

What i remember in few words :

 

+ Higher TTK that made the game more forgiving (opposite of "2shots human fps").

+ Team synergy was the only solution  to win (stick or die).

+ Immersion and mech feeling was better.

+ Mayhem TDM (20vs20)

+/- No internals

+ welcoming community

- Worst matchmaking issues even with a bigger player base.

- Unbalanced classes ( A > B > C )

- OP weaps/items ( flak,nades /HEnade,Detonator)



#52
CaliberMengsk

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A little late to the game, and not reading through other's posts, I'll just post my feels. 

 

**Note: WALL OF TEXT. Rather then being 100% opinion, I... kinda wrote a timeline from my perspective, and it got quite large... so... Enjoy? [edit: it took me over an hour to type this out XD]

 

Closed beta was a ton of fun. There's two things that have to knock the opinion of closed beta out though. #1, it was new, and worked quite well, so it's hard to give honest opinion of the game. It's like asking someone how they felt the first day they got a new zelda or mario game. You aren't likely to get an accurate answer from it, especially when it's been 2-3 years after the fact. #2, there was a very small player base that was actually in game, so you pretty much knew everyone at the time, so it was more like always playing with friends then just a normal match like today.

 

Past that, I'll try to convey my opinion of the changes through til now.

 

Pre-release (closed beta/alpha, up until launch)

Quite fun, though skewed through the points above, but there were still problems. Sahara (now bazaar) was the worst if you were on one side, and the best if you were on the other. There was only one way into the side point in siege, and the base from above had a literal cliff edge to get into the aa. Siege was also quite different. Instead of the current ticket system, it was 3 points per side, and the ship rather then shooting the base, just... plowed into it and exploded XD. Kind of a waste of resources. Honestly though, I like this siege much more then the current. There was a sense of urgency about stopping the ship, rather then "Oh no.... I loose a few points." The ship launching was an immediate call to attention to both sides, rather then the now lax "I'll get there when I feel like it". 

There were other quirks to be fix, like if you wanted to use an alternate gun as your primary, then you had to switch it ever time you started a match. Some things were massively op (hellfires did literal path finding, and would magically fly around walls to hit you... like even if they aimed at the wall and you went behind it before they fired, but they still had a lock on, it would completely avoid the wall. Fun times)

 

Public Release (12/12/2012, from launch until tech)

This period was an odd time. Guilds were just getting set up, the dev team was trying new things, etc. Hawken was quite stable, and to my memory, there weren't a ton of balancing issues. Sharp shooters were a pain, but I think that's more people just weren't use to them... and.... they did a ton of damage per shot if I recall right (like 300+ points). This is around the time that bubbling people started happening regularly and every week there was a different mech marked as the op mech. (I think there was even a time where the CRT was claimed to be op) There was a lot more visual and audio appeal at this time too. Explosions were louder and had an amazing thud to it, you could hear every little thing going on and what direction it came from. This was even true for bullets hitting the side of your mech (which now is just basically a tap sound that's hardly audible). The tow spiraled about in a larger way that made it feel like you could hit around corners (Though, Hughes or Vana... don't remember which let out the secret that tows even though they visually went all over, their hit boxes actually only ever traveled in a straight line, so it was impossible to actually shoot around corners... I'm not sure to the validity of this, cause I'm fairly certain I hit people around corners, but I could be wrong).

 

The HE grenade actually did more damage then a normal grenade, though most people didn't know that you could hold the fire he grenade button to actually shoot it further then a few feet. Near the end of this period, (again, if I recall right) a new item was added. The detonator was similar to an he grenade in damage, but shot in a straight line instead of being a grenade. Comparison is very similar to tow vs grenade. Anyway, when the detonator came out, people found out about the alpha strike tactic (still fairly valid today). This is where you get a high burst damage mech (say a scout), you rush in, and fire your primary (flak), secondary (tow) and item (detonator/he grenade) and pretty much kill nearly any mech out there in one shot. This tactic isn't used very much anymore, cause people have gotten adequate enough to dodge when people get that close. Also, because of the alpha strikes, later down the line (don't know when) damage in general was lowered to account for the alpha strike.

 

Lastly, during this time period, the internals of today was a point system. Similar to how an rpg game has. You could put points into armor to raise your health, boosters to increase your boost speed, fuel tanks to add more fuel, etc. I don't know if the stats are still as easy to change but it'd be nice if we get to the point of renting our hosting our own server, it'd be nice to change the stats of mechs in a similar fashion or a config file or something.

 

Tech Time

Ask anyone that knows me in hawken, and they can tell you I've been against the tech since before it was released. (I've been against it since it was just a murmur of an idea in alpha) When the tech was added, everything changed in the game for me at least, and a lot of other people. While I can appreciate support mechs and such, the tech was a bad move IMO. I do agree now that it could be viable, but it needs change even today, but I also still feel that games were much more fun before the tech was added. There was less of the death ball situation, and to keep a position, you had to actually be good. Before the tech appeared, it was easily possible for a good player to take on 2-3 other good players at the same time. It's still possible today to get into those types of fights and come up on top, but there is literally no way to do this if there is a tech in that group of 2-3 mechs.

 

You can't take points in MA, and attacking the AA is really hard, even for a good team fighting only a decent team, unless said good team also had a tech. In my opinion, if there is a mech added that requires both teams to have that mech to be on equal footing, it's a bad mech to add to the game. The tech also replaces the need for repairing. This added a lot of tactics to the game when you had to repair. Just repairing willy nilly wasn't smart. You had to find cover. This isn't true with the tech being there.

 

Anyway, I can go on and on about the tech, but I'll stop myself (as much as I can) for now. When the tech was added, they also did a slew of changes to pretty much everything. They tweaked tows and grenades to have a much smaller splash radius (I think the tow was lowered by like 40%, possibly more), some items were lowered in damage (detonator and he grenade), and some mechs had speed changes (pretty sure, scouts actually had a buff... they were insane... and Xacius was extremely happy... literally giddy when streaming with the scout).

 

This was also the time period where match making was implemented (again, if I recall right). Before this, it was random. You didn't have a way to "find" a server, you just joined one that had an open slot. Now you could find a match, but it was not very well implemented and was near random still. This just had to do with how they were calculating mmr (which btw, was publicly visible without the use of scrimbot. It was just a number above your profile) and was slowly, over time fixed to where it worked decently like it does today. 

 

Though I didn't like the tech, and personally too much had been changing too quickly, it still felt like hawken. If memory serves, this was also the time that voice chat was going down hill.

 

Ascension (the dreaded day)

I have to say that I was in the first round of beta (HAB is the official term. Don't remember what it stood for). There were two rounds. The first filled mostly with "elite" players (a lot of BSB members, and members that became BSB), and the second with lower ranked players, but still players that played a lot. The first day in hab... pretty much everyone hated it... or at least a fair amount of it. We were under NDA, (I think technically we still are, but screw it. I don't think I'll be pressed about it at this point, just like closed alpha stuff), so we couldn't talk about it on the forums, so there wasn't a great way to discuss stuff. But it was a massive change. Armor dropped 200-300 points for all mechs, speeds were reduced, damage was lowered, graphics/audio quality was lowered, internals became internals, items changed from a mk3 turret just having a ton of health to you get 3 turrets, etc. This meant TTK (Time to kill) was lowered considerably. The lowered attack damage wasn't offset as much as the lowered armor. I think in hab, the scout had less then 300 health. That mean that a sharpshooter with it's ability to do more damage could one shot the scout.

 

It seemed no one like it. As one of the lead members of BSB (and the guy doing the web stuffs), this is where hawken started to die. And when I say started to, I mean it crashed. We went from around 400ish active members to 120ish in around 3 months after the release of ascension, at least on our site (active members means members that at least logged in once every two weeks, bsb was the largest guild for a long time). By time we hit the new year (around 6 months after ascension) BSB was pretty much ded. There were still the core members hanging around, but nothing was happening really. I say all this without knowing how other guilds faired or how the userbase daily players changed, but for BSB, in less then a year, it was pretty much a full loss of users.

 

This was definitely the worst period for me in hawken. Both sides of HAB (elites and non-elites) said it was a bad change, overwhelmingly. They still pushed it out thinking we were over reacting. This is also the period where devs stopped listening, and some of our favorite devs disappeared.

 

Steam Launch

This was a sudden thing that happened. To my knowledge, only a couple people got to try the changes before steam launch, and it was only like a month from being announced to being launched completely. The changes hadn't been tested by even a decent size group, and from what I heard, any feedback was pretty much shunned from the people that actually did get to test it. It was a no going back situation. To me, I feel this is right before the bankrupt point (around a year ago at this point). I felt that something had gone wrong in the company cause as soon as the steam launch, there was pretty much 0 communication. A few devs would talk, like Vana or Defter, but they wouldn't ever want to talk about the game (or couldn't). Defter did talk with me and a few other people about the private server stuff, but beyond that, there was extremely little talk.

 

Private servers did come out in a beta like fashion. Only a few people had access to them (elite players or promenent players like Saturnine, Houruck (I think), and Xacius), but they did work. But after hearing about those servers working, nothing. Only a month or two after steam release, hawken was what most would call ded. Still a trickle of players, but no new content, the forums were in chaos, bugs didn't get fixed or even read, then the forums went down, came back up, then went down again for the final time. I was sad to leave, but in my mind, Hawken (the game I had sunk around 400 hours of my life into over 2 years) was utterly and completely ded. To me, the steam launch was the last ditch effort to try and get hawken back on it's feet, but too much had been done to break it.

 

Rising from the Ashes

There were a few rumbles at the beginning of this year. There was news that servers were going on and offline. There was a dev update according to steam, and then silence again for a few months. This is probably when CapnJosh was just starting to get things sorted out. I was hopeful something was happening, but I wasn't getting my hopes up. Then there was the facebook post, and all the stuff now happening. CapnJosh sounds like the devs did way back in closed beta. Fresh, new, excited, wanting to explore this vast new world that he can literally change with his own fingers, yet, seems like he doesn't want to destroy all that's there, and would rather build upon it then start from scratch.

 

I've been able to talk with him some on team speak a few times now, and he seems like he's on the right track. And better then that, he's actually listening to the people that have stuck around, and held out. The people that love the game so much they just couldn't leave. It's only been a shot time, but it seems like things are going in a good way. We'll have to wait and see, but I'm yet again hopeful.


Edited by CaliberMengsk, 28 March 2015 - 08:58 AM.

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#53
FRX23

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A little late to the game, and not reading through other's posts, I'll just post my feels. 

 

**Note: WALL OF TEXT. Rather then being 100% opinion, I... kinda wrote a timeline from my perspective, and it got quite large... so... Enjoy? [edit: it took me over an hour to type this out XD]

...

 

Thanks, you pretty well described the things and give underground bonus. Worth reading.


Edited by FRX23, 28 March 2015 - 09:26 AM.


#54
Zaxik

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Pre-ascension felt like driving huge metal mechs in a normal-sized world. Post-ascension feels like driving small mechs made of plastic in a scaled-down world.


Edited by Zaxik, 28 March 2015 - 09:39 AM.

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#55
Fstroke

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Overall the game is better now. Movement is more fluid and a faster "experience."

Many of you will point out that the actual speed values are less. True but the acceleration was real making changes in direction a bit laborious.

Also I like the addition of air compressor. More movement options are better. I think the next step is to make it a core movement mechanic rather than locking it behind a grind/pay wall.

They could probably bring some things back from beta though. With lower ttks they could probably stand to increase the cool down on secondary weapons such as the tow. I can't remember if remote set was in the game either but they could probably think about removing that too, with changes to the weapons that use it of course to make up for it.

And then there is the tech. I am all for support mechs, but that things mechanics need an overhaul.

Overall I think the game is better now. Mechs have a more unique identity and have better role definition on a team, class balance is as good as its ever been, better with a few tweaks here and there.

The only really broken item is the scanner. I didn't think anything of it at the time, but how ridiculous was that bubble shield? So broken.

We are close

#56
CaliberMengsk

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Thanks, you pretty well described the things and give underground bonus. Worth reading.

Well, :D At least one person enjoyed it! (actually two people {as of this post} have liked it, so :D)


Edited by CaliberMengsk, 28 March 2015 - 05:52 PM.


#57
Pap

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i played hawkend since alpha 2nd stage i think

 

like many guys expressed her, it was MUCH  different than it is now. the game had more appealing vibe it was more tactical (maybe call it slower if u want) more strategy and thinking was involved in each fight and teamplay was a big must in team games.

it was better then IMHO

 

now for me it's all mambo jumbo fly jump dodge like crazy horse spam shiet like a pigeon flying over your head. i understand that some ppl may like it but it ruins the "mech" experience. it's not mech anymore. feels like any other fast paced fps arena game with skins that look like mech


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#58
Pap

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I have to say that I was in the first round of beta (HAB is the official term. Don't remember what it stood for).

it was hawken advanced batalion

 

=======

sry cant delete post?


Edited by Pap, 31 March 2015 - 03:21 AM.


#59
Superkamikazee

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i played hawkend since alpha 2nd stage i think

like many guys expressed her, it was MUCH different than it is now. the game had more appealing vibe it was more tactical (maybe call it slower if u want) more strategy and thinking was involved in each fight and teamplay was a big must in team games.
it was better then IMHO

now for me it's all mambo jumbo fly jump dodge like crazy horse spam shiet like a pigeon flying over your head. i understand that some ppl may like it but it ruins the "mech" experience. it's not mech anymore. feels like any other fast paced fps arena game with skins that look like mech


Agreed, but be careful now, this goes against the "high tier skill ceiling " zeitgeist lol.


Edited by Superkamikazee, 31 March 2015 - 07:12 AM.

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#60
Pap

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:D yeah

but all honesty..

i think it depends. some people like faster paced games, some like slow tactical ones.

and that can be true we cant argue. BUT

i cant manage the feel that we have been fudged over by meteor/adhesive when they changed the game so much, when they took out the vibe it had. just looking at those old pre alpha trailers/teasers still makes me want to play that game but when i start up hawken the magic is gone for me:)

 

also they should ramp up the graphics. come one we are soon going to dx12 and what is hawken runing on? DX 'frickin' 9 ...come on:D i know graphics is not all but that is just being cheap now



#61
LoC_TR

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I played OB just after the Reaper patch. At the time Hawken was one of those games that really got my adrenaline going. It was much slower and more tactical on the ground fights. I had a sub par PC back then and the Hawken wasn't really optimized so i just played EOC Infil mostly, I basically tried to get people to follow me over my mines because it was sooo difficult for me to hit a target straight on. I remember playing with the big boys too, trying to figure out how to beat them when I could barely shoot them sometimes haha. For all its faults that Hawken got me going like a jackrabbit on crack, i just could not stay away! 

 

That apprehension right before he shot and you dodge, kill or be killed, that was addicting. Now I feel that is not there at all. It's also possible that I've just grown to accustom to the current version so I usually know the outcome of a fight. I hate to say it but the tech probably destroyed more of the player base than any other single decision. To sit down and heal was a huge risk forcing you to sometimes engage with low health, which is way more heart pumping. I dropped 1200$ on a new PC mostly so I could play Hawken, as soon as I bought it Hawken got optimized and lots was changed. Even so I continued to religiously play for another year without touching any other games. 


Edited by LoC_TR, 31 March 2015 - 04:08 PM.

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#62
thirtysix

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Installed Hawken in early 2013, February i think.

 

First month i spent only mastering the game mechanics, there was that much that is lost now.

Deeper heat management, movement accelerations, deeper fuel management (dodges consumed fuel, overall lower fuel amounts), weapons spread for example.

 

No magical mechs - no tech that heals (heals mechs, dammit!), no incinerator that throws magical fireballs indefinitely, no pred that gives no heck abous map architecture.

 

There was some problems with C classes for expample, but it were problems that one can balance. It's not the tech that you can't balance by design.

 

There was no flying circus - every move, every dodge and every turn were pulling you ahead or making you loose. Every fight was a tactical battle.

 

Game felt unique, and it was unique promising project.

 

 

That's what i can tell you in 5 minutes. Of couse there is more to say, other people sure will add something.

 

Have asked what direction this game WILL take in a previous post.

Is it going to be run and gun?

Is it going to be a thinking shooter?

Both?

IMHO this is where the game went south, no real direction, nothing to build towards.


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#63
DieselCat

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Installed Hawken in early 2013, February i think.

 

First month i spent only mastering the game mechanics, there was that much that is lost now.

Deeper heat management, movement accelerations, deeper fuel management (dodges consumed fuel, overall lower fuel amounts), weapons spread for example.

 

No magical mechs - no tech that heals (heals mechs, dammit!), no incinerator that throws magical fireballs indefinitely, no pred that gives no heck abous map architecture.

 

There was some problems with C classes for expample, but it were problems that one can balance. It's not the tech that you can't balance by design.

 

There was no flying circus - every move, every dodge and every turn were pulling you ahead or making you loose. Every fight was a tactical battle.

 

Game felt unique, and it was unique promising project.

 

 

That's what i can tell you in 5 minutes. Of couse there is more to say, other people sure will add something

 

 

 

Well said, I agree with everything you described.  There are certain groups that want to keep the game moving in the direction, as you say 'Flying Circus'. Making it faster and faster. Hawken needs to go back to it's roots, what has been described as a blend between a mech-sim with speed. A mix of east / west mech game styles. The feel of a big machine under you, not this mosquito buzzing BS.

 

I've noticed since the game was taken over and the forums put back up, the same (discussions ?) have risen over which direction it should go.  Some people would like to put the cart before the horse ( competitive play ?...E-sports ?)  I remember a lot of that talk in the early beginnings while the game was still in closed beta.

 

And here we are again,  talk about who knows best on what suggestion should be made to improve the game play with increased speed, higher skill ceilings, etc...because certain groups feel they know best how to utilize all aspects of the game, so therefore seem to know better that all else.

 

I really feel for the new devs...looks like they're about to get placed in the middle again just like the last time of this ongoing debate about what's the best direction for Hawken.

 

My 2c.. like it or not !

 

*+


Just Relax....and take life one game at a time....

Don't run to your death....walk

 

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*+

 


#64
defekt

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I hate to say it but the tech probably destroyed more of the player base than any other single decision. To sit down and heal was a huge risk forcing you to sometimes engage with low health, which is way more heart pumping. 

 

((My GOD it's awkward to edit a quote on this forum!))

 

Anyhoo, what ^he said.  Twice.  :)
 


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#65
Jelooboi

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I had a very large group playing the game.  Meteor flew myself and my wife out to Boston and Seattle for multiple Pax events to help work the events and help sign people up. I am actually the person who introduced them to IPB and showed them how it would sync with the game better than the forum software they intended to you. I don't say these things to brag but, to point out how early on I was involved with the game.  I was one of the first 100, NON ADH MTR Employees, to get to play the game.   The game was utterly amazing in its Alpha stage.  It was simple, it was dirty, it was immersive and it was by all means absolutely fun.  This was when we had skill trees still.  The game lost a huge player base when they enabled flying and dodging in the air.  A lot of people bailed on the game when those features.  Many people told me the game lost its feel once you had giant fortresses turkeying about.  This game was at its best with quick ground play and slow air movement.  It used to be that if you went airborne you were toast.  We need to go back to that.   I really do miss this game and what it used to be.  I had such high hopes for the game and it seemed like they shattered it and went belly up.

 

 

Just to show you ...

https://fbcdn-sphoto...ed1823536bcd71d

I completely agree. This is a mech simulator, not Ace Combat 5. Being in the air like that doesn't just give you an evasive advantage but also a better angle to aim as well. 


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#66
AsianJoyKiller

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This is a mech simulator, not Ace Combat 5.

This is not a mech simulator.


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#67
Jelooboi

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This is not a mech simulator.

u wanna fight? ill ddos ur nan m8

mech simulator, mech game, call it whatever you want.



#68
Magnolia1038

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While CB had its share of issues I still feel it was one of the best iterations of Hawken. I've since adjusted to the changes that have been implemented but will always miss the feel of the game back then.

Hawken Chronicles

Red Sand | Sepulcher | Invasion | Virus | Proteus


#69
Superkamikazee

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Installed Hawken in early 2013, February i think.

 

First month i spent only mastering the game mechanics, there was that much that is lost now.

Deeper heat management, movement accelerations, deeper fuel management (dodges consumed fuel, overall lower fuel amounts), weapons spread for example.

 

No magical mechs - no tech that heals (heals mechs, dammit!), no incinerator that throws magical fireballs indefinitely, no pred that gives no heck abous map architecture.

 

There was some problems with C classes for expample, but it were problems that one can balance. It's not the tech that you can't balance by design.

 

There was no flying circus - every move, every dodge and every turn were pulling you ahead or making you loose. Every fight was a tactical battle.

 

Game felt unique, and it was unique promising project.

 

 

That's what i can tell you in 5 minutes. Of couse there is more to say, other people sure will add something.

 


 

I came by at Feb 2013. And the game was more HAWKENISH. Meaning HAWKEN's core stands out more than other things.

 

The battles were more tactical and epic, deathballs only happened in unbalanced siege games, which weren't nearly as frequent because before balance was better and there was good teamplay.

 

VOIP helped a lot and there were very active groups, clans or not. There was rarely any hackers and exploiters.

 

But now: low TTK, light mechs flying all over the place, OP combos like tech-incin. All of this not just changed the scene, but drove people away. Believe me. Right after the tech patch, ascension and steam; people were leaving in bunches. Old veterans that know the game and played it for its uniqueness.

 

You know, I once counted the people on my friends list. They counted 360. I had to delete 290 of them to help my syncing issues, and all those people were lost, they left anyways and never were active. These are my friends that are potentiall ELITE players that know the game very well, AND that use voice comms.That's the quality of the lost player-base after those gamechanging patches.

 

I strongly encourage major efforts to reduce the effect of all those patches. Balancing the tech and incin, increasing the TTK, making the air game less of a go-to strategy ...

 

 

Like.


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No crew


#70
AsianJoyKiller

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u wanna fight? ill ddos ur nan m8

mech simulator, mech game, call it whatever you want.

Do you consider CoD a military simulator?

Burnout a driving simulator?

Minecraft a survival simulator?


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#71
eth0

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rose-tinted classes aside, i miss the old hud and the fear of repairing alone.


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Pubstomping is a whole different strategic discussion, however, and usually just becomes an exploration of the ethics of dumpstering randos.

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Why mech game make when you no mech game have you don't want to make? 


#72
LU0P10

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Been playing since 161212... till the Tech. After that... I actually shed tears and...

...forget it... 



#73
OdinTheWise

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u wanna fight? ill ddos ur nan m8

mech simulator, mech game, call it whatever you want.

this isnt really a mech game, its an arena shooter 


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#74
Leonhardt

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I would just like to point out to everyone in this thread who has commented about how much they loved the old builds of Hawken, especially Alpha to early OB, that most of the changes made were a direct result of the community you were all apart of and if my memory serves me (which it often does) many of you agreed to. Some examples of this would be the hud changes... oh how everyone complained about the hud being impractical and yet here I see many of the same people complaining that the hud is not immersive enough.

 

Anyway my point here is not to make you all seem/feel like hypocrites. I am trying to give us all some perspective. No matter what build we were in there were QUITE A FEW THINGS that many many players all agreed needed to be changed (not everyone agreed on how to go about that change) and then after their were many other people who complained about the change.

 

I am pretty convinced at this point that most of the community doesn't even know what it wants. No offense to anyone here, but that seems to be the trend over time.

 

EDIT: I want to add that I am not trying to single anyone out with this post its meant as more of a general comment on my experience having been here from week 2 of Alpha.


Edited by Leonhardt, 01 April 2015 - 12:35 PM.

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#75
Houruck

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I would just like to point out to everyone in this thread who has commented about how much they loved the old builds of Hawken, especially Alpha to early OB, that most of the changes made were a direct result of the community you were all apart of and if my memory serves me (which it often does) many of you agreed to. Some examples of this would be the hud changes... oh how everyone complained about the hud being impractical and yet here I see many of the same people complaining that the hud is not immersive enough.

It was cluttered (especially the enemy sighted and the yellow circle kill confirmation marker) but it was immersive because almsot everything was integrated into the cockpit and had nice little features like a compass, the distance on the IFF boxes and so on.

 

I play this game since Alpha and I must agree with AJK when he says we had really annoying bugs (especially the stunlock) and badly designed or executed features that got fixed since but I miss the old HUD (but I love the colour options on the new one) and the tactics involved with the repair drones before the tech got introduced and orbs became a necessity. I somehow prefered the first siege system where the bases had 3 armour points and the battleships did kamikaze runs and attacked players. We had hour long matches (I guess that might be a problem to someone).


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#76
Brave_Sir_Robin

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I somehow prefered the first siege system where the bases had 3 armour points and the battleships did kamikaze runs and attacked players. We had hour long matches (I guess that might be a problem to someone).

 

Those matches were insane, especially when both teams would be down to one armor point each. The mad scrambles into the AA were absolutely nuts.

(sighs)

 

I miss those matches.


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#77
Sylhiri

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I somehow prefered the first siege system where the bases had 3 armour points and the battleships did kamikaze runs and attacked players. We had hour long matches (I guess that might be a problem to someone).

 

I don't miss having to repair 2-3 times before getting to the AA because some genius thought it was a good idea to allow the ship to shoot you.


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#78
Houruck

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I don't miss having to repair 2-3 times before getting to the AA because some genius thought it was a good idea to allow the ship to shoot you.

I can understand that. I remember how much I hated when it killed me, but most of the time it was my fault.


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#79
LobsterBox

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I agree with Deadmen_Tim. It was far more technical and (though there is a lot of talk about the learning curve at present) the learning curve was greater then.

One thing I miss is the sound design in the early OB. It actually felt/sounded like TOW's were flying past your head. The sound was grittier and more dynamic, a lot less processed/compressed than it is now. It seems similar to what happens in music production regarding "the loudness war".

 

The immersion in the cockpit was just awesome then. For all intent and purpose you felt like you were driving those things into battle. Yes it seams faster now but more clinical and somehow more removed.

 

As someone that's been playing since the alpha I can say that all of this is objectively incorrect. Except the worse learning curve.



#80
LoC_TR

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things

 

Lol the hud was impractical and im glad they changed it, my computer could not run it at the time. They also said they'd be improving the Ascension Hud as well, I don't recall them changing it in any way after that. I recall a debate of the Fuel/health bars looking a little "not-mechy-enough." While you may be correct in saying that the player base never knew what it wanted, neither did the Devs it seemed. If ADH/MTR knew where they should take Hawken there would have been more doing and less discussing what to do. This obviously seems to be a big issue though, a lot of the Hawken player base miss some of the more mech like attributes of this game, there could definitely be avenues Reloaded Inc. could take that would please most parties. 


Edited by LoC_TR, 01 April 2015 - 03:46 PM.





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