Me, I scripted a program to load without Steam, disable the movies, log me in, queue up for TDM.
I'm doing fine.
But new players aren't.
What, you mean you applied a few tags on the end of a shortcut?
The idea that the time it takes to log into something is a serious deterrent to new players is ludicrous. There has not been a single complaint about this on these forums, the Reddit, or the SteamCommunity Forums (at least a month back because I refuse to wade through that feculent cesspool of genetic waste). Furthermore, people who are actually bothered by this generally already know the tricks to get around it, as appending skip movie options to shortcuts works pretty much across all versions of Windows and Steam has a built in set of options to do this.
tl;dr citation needed, your experience is not representative of the whole
If your problem is new players not opening Hawken after the third day. Have you ever considered making it easier to launch Hawken?
Log into Steam, Patch Steam, Wait for the game to load, Skip/Watch 5 videos, Log in even though you're using Steam, then click three interface icons, then wait 10 seconds, then wait for the game to load.
If they let the videos play, and don't have an ssd, that's a good 3-5 minutes, between deciding the play, and being allowed to play.
_
If you honestly think that launch time is significantly important and relevant to player retention...because it's quite insignificant. It'll do literally nothing. Ludicrous. No one has ever complaind about it.
I launch steam, I launch Hawken, I don't let the videos play, I click right past them in under 5 seconds. I log in within a minute, and I jump in queue as soon as I'm logged in. I'm in a match in less than a minute. And I don't even have an SSD. I'm in Hawken in minutes.
You don't even need Steam to launch Hawken either.
If players can't wait a minute or two to get into the game, I'd send them back to kindergarten to learn a little lesson called patience. Because if they quit a game because of the launch time, they need to stop playing video games. It's just bad.
Edited by Silverfire, 04 December 2015 - 07:11 PM.
If they let the videos play, and don't have an ssd, that's a good 3-5 minutes, between deciding the play, and being allowed to play.
By default the movies are skippable by simply pressing any key or mouse button when the movies are playing. So, I'm not sure why you think players are just going to sit there and watch the movies without hitting any keys to skip them. Its been a fairly common practice for games to allow you to skip intros by pressing any key for years now. In the beginning, ADH didn't have the movies set as skippable, but after a few posts on the forums, they decided to implement it by default years ago.
Me, I scripted a program to load without Steam, disable the movies, log me in, queue up for TDM.
TIL creating a shortcut is "scripting a program", who knew.
Disabling the movies with the -nomoviestartup flag causes known issues of the screen freaking out and audio dropping out between matches, so its highly unadvised. If you are experiencing audio dropouts that cause you to have to restart Hawken, that is the sole cause of it.
If you really can't be bothered with clicking or pressing a key to bypass the movies on startup, then its best to go in manually and remove the movies in the ini's, but seriously thats almost too much trouble for what its worth.
If you create new acc, and play 5 min in TDM with newbies, you clearly see that 70% of players have a big problems with
- Aim and mech turn-cap.
- nobody look at radar
- nobody know about air-det, shoot from HF without lock-on, and don't know that tech have attack-mode. I.e. They never look game controls.
(this is why we need tips on loading screen!)
- Have a problem with dodges, with shift+s, and with positioning
- If you attack they from back, they start panic and don't understand what's going on.
I.e. New players have a big problem with Hawken, not with launching in steam. Not all players, but many of them.
I agree with nepa. New players are lacking vital basic knowledge.
Hawken looks like a typical mech game. Most mech games are kinda slow. The tutorial completely fails to make clear that Hawken plays more like Unreal than Mechwarrior. I also fails to display how short the TTK is. A new player has no idea how efficient the SMC TOW combo on the assault is. When I was new to Hawken I started using another mech ASAP because the Fred really seemed to suck.
Question. Which thing developer planned (or maybe already working on) to increase new players expirence in game? i mean, explain game mechanics, movement mechanics, making some tips, or maybe some other things?
sorry if question was already asked.
Spoiler
Pleasure_Mortar,
problem not in how showing TTK for player.
nobody tell you that you SHOULD use dodge every second in fight since begginig play (then you understand how it working, and start use dodge when it really need you, but it is another story)
nobody tell you that you can detonate your rockets.(did you really think that someone play in tutorial? Oh c'mon... :D)
nobody tell you that you should use boost every time if you want catch someone (then you understand how it working, and start use boost when it really need you, but it is another story)
nobody tell you that you need always press C when you have a free time.
and many other things, which just unobvious/hidden mechanic. nodoby not explain this for players.
stupid air-compressor also not help. it is a very bad thing. AC created for "better air-combat expirience!", but in reality - it is just a "Nub-Shredding" internal.
newbie players can buy AC only after they reach 14-15 pilot lvl. it can take about 10 hours of play, or even more. But some player already have AC, and nubs can't resist against AC. +/- good players with AC is almost immortal in low-tier matches.
as a result, many players in low-tier matches use flying (like always) and die. because we all know what is flying without AC. Stupid and fastest death in hawken.
question is - continue creating shooter for elite-fps-players only? or trying to make a game easy to control, made it available for everyone?
for me it is obviously. 90% player who play in hawken first, don't understand nothing, play 1-2 days, and delete game. even if they understand how it working, this game is still so hard for them. just my opinion, how it working, and why ppl not play long.
Question. Which thing developer planned (or maybe already working on) to increase new players expirence in game? i mean, explain game mechanics, movement mechanics, making some tips, or maybe some other things?
sorry if question was already asked.
Spoiler
Pleasure_Mortar,
problem not in how showing TTK for player.
nobody tell you that you SHOULD use dodge every second in fight since begginig play (then you understand how it working, and start use dodge when it really need you, but it is another story)
nobody tell you that you can detonate your rockets.(did you really think that someone play in tutorial? Oh c'mon... :D)
nobody tell you that you should use boost every time if you want catch someone (then you understand how it working, and start use boost when it really need you, but it is another story)
nobody tell you that you need always press C when you have a free time.
and many other things, which just unobvious/hidden mechanic. nodoby not explain this for players.
stupid air-compressor also not help. it is a very bad thing. AC created for "better air-combat expirience!", but in reality - it is just a "Nub-Shredding" internal.
newbie players can buy AC only after they reach 14-15 pilot lvl. it can take about 10 hours of play, or even more. But some player already have AC, and nubs can't resist against AC. +/- good players with AC is almost immortal in low-tier matches.
as a result, many players in low-tier matches use flying (like always) and die. because we all know what is flying without AC. Stupid and fastest death in hawken.
question is - continue creating shooter for elite-fps-players only? or trying to make a game easy to control, made it available for everyone?
for me it is obviously. 90% player who play in hawken first, don't understand nothing, play 1-2 days, and delete game. even if they understand how it working, this game is still so hard for them. just my opinion, how it working, and why ppl not play long.
They can add tips at the bottom of the screen either in waiting room before every match,or some in garage etc..I bet its not that hard...Oh and especially more tips before every game mode.New training session maybe too?cause the old..well its old..
Question. Which thing developer planned (or maybe already working on) to increase new players expirence in game? i mean, explain game mechanics, movement mechanics, making some tips, or maybe some other things?
sorry if question was already asked.
Spoiler
Pleasure_Mortar,
problem not in how showing TTK for player.
nobody tell you that you SHOULD use dodge every second in fight since begginig play (then you understand how it working, and start use dodge when it really need you, but it is another story)
nobody tell you that you can detonate your rockets.(did you really think that someone play in tutorial? Oh c'mon... :D)
nobody tell you that you should use boost every time if you want catch someone (then you understand how it working, and start use boost when it really need you, but it is another story)
nobody tell you that you need always press C when you have a free time.
and many other things, which just unobvious/hidden mechanic. nodoby not explain this for players.
stupid air-compressor also not help. it is a very bad thing. AC created for "better air-combat expirience!", but in reality - it is just a "Nub-Shredding" internal.
newbie players can buy AC only after they reach 14-15 pilot lvl. it can take about 10 hours of play, or even more. But some player already have AC, and nubs can't resist against AC. +/- good players with AC is almost immortal in low-tier matches.
as a result, many players in low-tier matches use flying (like always) and die. because we all know what is flying without AC. Stupid and fastest death in hawken.
question is - continue creating shooter for elite-fps-players only? or trying to make a game easy to control, made it available for everyone?
for me it is obviously. 90% player who play in hawken first, don't understand nothing, play 1-2 days, and delete game. even if they understand how it working, this game is still so hard for them. just my opinion, how it working, and why ppl not play long.
i feel the air thing is tricky, i think its good, adds some variety to game play, i think the issue is that the game sens for vertical movement is a lot lower than horizontal, so it makes air targets harder to hit, just by adding another axis, and new players notice this, but as when they meet players who can track air targets, they start to explode, and hit a new wall, there needs to be something to help with that.
"but the dead horse has been beaten so many times it's practically a pulpy mess in the barn by now."
They can add tips at the bottom of the screen either in waiting room before every match,or some in garage etc..I bet its not that hard...
We need to increase the visibility too. Not sure most people see them.
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
EDIT
never see this before. where you find it? :D
Exactly here:
Spoiler
It would be nice to have short introductory videos for every game mode explaining the goals of the mode. (Mostly for Siege/MA I guess). Kind of like in UT2004. (Forcing the tutorial might be helpful too for the basics?). Don't know how difficult it would be to implement them.
If all else fails maybe add a link ingame for a tutorial on youtube on the game modes.
Sorry for going off-topic.
I doubt it would make any sense to ask for a roadmap for hawken in 2016 and onwards?
Kind of what is the "big" plan for hawken? Big changes or just making small tweaks to keep it going till judgement day?
Former devs said the very "core" of hawken is done and won't change.
Edited by Sorroritas, 06 December 2015 - 10:03 AM.
anotherconfirmation of the factthat the game interfaceis too complicated. all of i know about current interface, that i need press big red "launch/play" button. this button actually nice, because i can press it. all other - not. :D
- Will there be Steam controller support for those that have moved onto the Steam Link? (been playing very little Herken since I got my link/controller)
- I know this is really towards the bottom of the list of priorities, but I might be inclined to skip the Steam link/controller, and go back to playing Herken at my desk if there was Multi-Monitor support. Is this on the to-do list?
"The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting" - Sun Tzu
If you create new acc, and play 5 min in TDM with newbies, you clearly see that 70% of players have a big problems with
- Aim and mech turn-cap.
- nobody look at radar
- nobody know about air-det, shoot from HF without lock-on, and don't know that tech have attack-mode. I.e. They never look game controls.
(this is why we need tips on loading screen!)
- Have a problem with dodges, with shift+s, and with positioning
- If you attack they from back, they start panic and don't understand what's going on.
I.e. New players have a big problem with Hawken,
Very good points.
Considering people aren't even looking at the Tutorials.
Maybe we should just shove it in front of their faces between maps:
Edited by GreyFa1con, 06 December 2015 - 03:02 PM.
Silverfire, Odinous, americanbrit14 and 3 others like this
TRIBES: Developed a server mod with 40 servers, 20 clans, and competitive league play.
PLANETSIDE: Got about 30 suggested changes implemented, and 40,000 game downloads via a 1Mb mini-installer I developed.
On a serious note, what's the point in having a dev interview right now or anytime int he near future? There is legitimately nothing to discuss, and there haven't been any significant updates. Lastly it's getting a little old and stale talking hypothetical's with Josh, I want to see progress.
Another dev interview, especially following Merl's podcast thing, feels incredibly redundant. Anything else not discussed, well, I feel all it would be is, "yeah we know and we're working on it," or "I'm open to it," from the devs.
I mean no disrespect to Augmentia, but I don't think he should interview because it'll rehash things we've heard before, unless he can tell us something new, which I doubt. Not much time has transpired between Merl's interview and now.
Another dev interview, especially following Merl's podcast thing, feels incredibly redundant. Anything else not discussed, well, I feel all it would be is, "yeah we know and we're working on it," or "I'm open to it," from the devs.
I mean no disrespect to Augmentia, but I don't think he should interview because it'll rehash things we've heard before, unless he can tell us something new, which I doubt. Not much time has transpired between Merl's interview and now.
While I agree about the recentness, it could be useful, assuming some actually hard-hitting questions get asked.
While I agree about the recentness, it could be useful, assuming some actually hard-hitting questions get asked.
You can ask all the hard-hitting questions you want but it doesn't amount to much if the answer is always "maybe", "we'll look into it", "one day", etc.
You can ask all the hard-hitting questions you want but it doesn't amount to much if the answer is always "maybe", "we'll look into it", "one day", etc.
No one game developer not give you answer like: "yes, it will be 100% done in 12.12.2016, in 19:45:10 sec."
It is just impossibru.
Also, question to OP, it is possible, to add subtitles in video? =/
No one game developer not give you answer like: "yes, it will be 100% done in 12.12.2016, in 19:45:10 sec."
It is just impossibru.
Also, question to OP, it is possible, to add subtitles in video? =/
How did you get wanting something other then extremely vague to wanting something impossibly accurate? I'm pretty sure there is something in the middle.
You can ask all the hard-hitting questions you want but it doesn't amount to much if the answer is always "maybe", "we'll look into it", "one day", etc.
Sure, you can think that and then we can all give up and just wait for word on high to be handed down, blinking in confusion as suddenly rocket turrets fire30 rockets a minute.
Augmentia seems to be positioning this series as a more journalistic approach rather than Merl's "hangouts." If that's the case, there is going to have to be more pressure and digging because otherwise this whole thing may as well be for attention, with all the legitimacy that implies.
On a serious note, what's the point in having a dev interview right now or anytime int he near future? There is legitimately nothing to discuss, and there haven't been any significant updates. Lastly it's getting a little old and stale talking hypothetical's with Josh, I want to see progress.
Another dev interview, especially following Merl's podcast thing, feels incredibly redundant. Anything else not discussed, well, I feel all it would be is, "yeah we know and we're working on it," or "I'm open to it," from the devs.
I mean no disrespect to Augmentia, but I don't think he should interview because it'll rehash things we've heard before, unless he can tell us something new, which I doubt. Not much time has transpired between Merl's interview and now.
I don't think he answered any of my questions in the interview with Merl.
I'd like if they just consolidated all the unanswered questions into a single bullet point email to Josh, for him to post a 'community questions answered' thread with brief answers to everything (even if the answer is 'can't discuss').
He can put thought into answers rather than being made to answer on the spot. Hell, he could delegate to some pleb to type up answers and then he just reviews then sigh his name at the bottom.
I don't think he answered any of my questions in the interview with Merl.
I'd like if they just consolidated all the unanswered questions into a single bullet point email to Josh, for him to post a 'community questions answered' thread with brief answers to everything (even if the answer is 'can't discuss').
He can put thought into answers rather than being made to answer on the spot. Hell, he could delegate to some pleb to type up answers and then he just reviews then sigh his name at the bottom.
true.
But it's fun to have somekind of live virtual contact with the devs...
So that Android version of Hawken......how different will the Android console version be and why?
What design concessions if any are you making to accommodate putting Hawken on a different platform with a very different play style and user base?
Lastly how is this good for Hawken in general and how is it going to help the PC client version (why should we be excited for this)?
Single player / co-op question....
Do you have any plans to expand the co-op experience? Frankly there isn't much there but it seems like there is a good framework there to build upon. Perhaps some objective base play modes?
This could be a real big draw for new players and building up their skill level.
Edited by AxionOperandi, 13 December 2015 - 07:27 PM.
I don't think he answered any of my questions in the interview with Merl.
I'd like if they just consolidated all the unanswered questions into a single bullet point email to Josh, for him to post a 'community questions answered' thread with brief answers to everything (even if the answer is 'can't discuss').
He can put thought into answers rather than being made to answer on the spot. Hell, he could delegate to some pleb to type up answers and then he just reviews then sigh his name at the bottom.
If Capt'n'Josh doesn't have any real news to discuss, I'd rather have something else than "we're working hardly / don't expect news soon but be patient ".
What about a Streaming session with Josh playing during war wednesday and commenting with augmentia ?
If Capt'n'Josh doesn't have any real news to discuss, I'd rather have something else than "we're working hardly / don't expect news soon but be patient ".
What about a Streaming session with Josh playing during war wednesday and commenting with augmentia ?
That or a dev hunt like ADH did a few times. Give people some zero effort icon for killing someone with a [HWK] Tag.
Anything that engages the community is probably good.
EDIT: I have an actual question.
What is your opinion on balance in Hawken? Not necessarily looking for proposed balance changes, I would just like to know what your image of the current state of the game looks like. Ideally mentioning specifically what items/mechs/weapon/internals seem strong or weak.
It is a Russian stream about Hawken created November 4, 2015. This stream is totally fuzzy bunny and players are nubs. But!
in the first minutes of video, commentator say something like this (i trying translate for you):
Commentator1 - We decided toplay in Hawken again (in the second time), andyou know what? Foldedthe impressionthat, in general, this game isgood!
Commentator2-This is nice game, I also like.
Commentator1- But, by the way, we went to the garage, looked at the "internals" that can be set on your mech. And we understood that there are elements that can be set only for real money. (MC) And in general,premiuminternals better in four times than regular, which you can buy for in-game currency (HC).
Commentator2- yes, yes ...
Than they start tell absolutely nonsense, cuz they are totally Nubs, and don't understand nothing in hawken.
they talking about "Unlock Early" internals (which have cost only 720HC), and they think that this internals just strongers (they don't think that you can made bild with six x1 internals, or x1+x2+x3, etc.)
So, when people start the game and have 0 pilot lvl, they actually think that is game is totally pay-2-win. (we know that hawken is not p2w, but like as practice shows us, many people have the same logic when they see hawken first, and thinking about p2w)
My Question is:
Augmentia, I want you toreadthis shortdialogueto CapnJoshandasked him, what hethought about this dialogue? It is obvious that many people get completely wrong impression about the system in F2P Hawken when they playing first time. And the problem is, that they can leave from Hawken faster, than they reach 10-15 pilot lvl.
also, in every stream which i see about hawken, all players notice that the game actually look very nice :}
I've heard some of the same misconceptions the people in nepa's video had from new players in-game too. So regarding the level gating of items and internals: how often, approximately, does artificially creating a barrier to their access result in conversion in comparison to e.g. mechs (which are sidegrades at best) and cosmetics (which obviously don't make an impact on gameplay)? In other words, is the revenue from restricting access to items and internals worth causing the game to appear P2W to a substantial number of fresh players?