If you're going Christmas shopping in the store, you should note that the Frostburn thruster is a "rental" with no time given. So maybe don't spend money on that.
Also, Reloaded:
fuzzy bunny move.
Just like they did with the Halloween drone. Although I noticed that as of a few days ago that was still available for "purchase" (rental).
Seriously Reloaded. Get that cosmetic rental fuzzy bunny outta here. Either offer it in full or not at all. Or, if you want to allow people to equip it for a limited amount of time, do it for free.

Salvage: An Idea to Stop Leavers
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(") (")?
I don't have my Hawken computer with me, so I'm just taking this post at face value, but that's ultra dumb. While I hope for Hawken's financial success, I encourage players to not purchase this. The appropriate methodology to monetizing a free to play game is to produce new cosmetics, not continually resell old ones.
Community members - its your choice whether or not to purchase this sort of thing, but I personally believe we shouldn't allow developers to get away with that sort of nonsense.
There is a more than willing community that has literally begged for Reloaded to allow them to create skins - for free. This is, well. It's kind of abusive and I hope it's not reflective of Hawken's future.
Edited by ticklemyiguana, 24 December 2015 - 05:13 PM.
Dammit Josh.
Also, if tourney mc could be delivered before holiday camos become unavailable ;/
Umm...
This is a leftover from the MTR days, not something new that reloaded came up with.
Hardly a 'fuzzy' move, they just turned on something that was already there, and something that I believe more than a few people bought into previously. Not that i agree with it, mind you, as I didn't 'rent' it before, and I'm not going to do it this time either.
Am I the only one who remembers this stuff? ![]()
Edited by bacon_avenger, 24 December 2015 - 06:34 PM.
Test dummy for science, Follower of Wheatons Law, usually hanging around #hawkenscrim and #spawn, occasional poster of YouTube videos and streaming. Can also be found on twitter
Umm...
This is a leftover from the MTR days, not something new that reloaded came up with.
Hardly a 'fuzzy' move, they just turned on something that was already there, and something that I believe more than a few people bought into previously. Not that i agree with it, mind you, as I didn't 'rent' it before, and I'm not going to do it this time either.
Am I the only one who remembers this stuff?
Thus far, yes. If it happened previously, it was at least two years ago - as it wasn't the case last year. If so, then this isn't exactly "justification" for it, but at least I can see a more reasonable path to the present action.
It doesn't change the fact that it reeks of lazy profiteering regardless of who did it first (I only support clever profiteering!) and I would discourage players from sending the message that "this is acceptable."
Dammit Josh.
Also, if tourney mc could be delivered before holiday camos become unavailable ;/
What? ARE holiday camos available? I haven't been on for a few days cuz of internet... I hope you aren't just talking about this bullshite rental option

Salvage: An Idea to Stop Leavers
Umm...
This is a leftover from the MTR days, not something new that reloaded came up with.
Hardly a 'fuzzy' move, they just turned on something that was already there, and something that I believe more than a few people bought into previously. Not that i agree with it, mind you, as I didn't 'rent' it before, and I'm not going to do it this time either.
Am I the only one who remembers this stuff?
Someone, somewhere, looked at the rental button and thought to themselves "yes, let us do this on Christmas eve."
I don't give two fuzzy bunnies who implemented it, when it was first done or what anyone's logic was.
It's a fuzzy bunny move.
Edited by Brumbpo Tungus, 24 December 2015 - 07:46 PM.
Thus far, yes. If it happened previously, it was at least two years ago - as it wasn't the case last year. If so, then this isn't exactly "justification" for it, but at least I can see a more reasonable path to the present action.
It doesn't change the fact that it reeks of lazy profiteering regardless of who did it first (I only support clever profiteering!) and I would discourage players from sending the message that "this is acceptable."
Someone, somewhere, looked at the rental button and thought to themselves "yes, let us do this on Christmas eve."
I don't give two fuzzy bunnies who implemented it, when it was first done or what anyone's logic was.
It's a fuzzy bunny move.
Ok, first off, I am against the rental of cosmetics in general, especially if they cost MC. As previously mentioned, I'm not spending any of my MC on them this year, just as I passed on them when they came out before.
That being said, I do not envy the position Josh is in. People complain that 'nothing is happening, no content is being released', but when something is done, even if it's really bad cheese, people complain about it.
Have we forgotten just how little Josh and the new dev team can actually do? Again, yes, rentals are arse, and I am one who isn't going to buy into them, but at the same time, it's something that shows they are not outright ignoring the game, and is something 'newish' that wasn't previously available.
Seriously people, lighten up. I'm not saying to just accept whatever comes down the pipe, good or bad, but this kind of reaction is how we gets ants, why we can't have nice things, and if his comments are to be believed, is an example of the behavior that caused Phil Fish, the former dev of Fez, to give the big finger to the gaming world and quit making games.
As used to be said to new players who wanted free cosmetics, devs got bills and gotta eat like the rest of us. ![]()
That sucks. I wish we would've gotten a few easy holiday camo releases like ADH did. I'm gonna make my mechs festive tomorrow too lol
Yea, I think this would have been a much better thing to do. I
my blue and snowflake infiltrator.
Edited by bacon_avenger, 24 December 2015 - 08:32 PM.
Test dummy for science, Follower of Wheatons Law, usually hanging around #hawkenscrim and #spawn, occasional poster of YouTube videos and streaming. Can also be found on twitter
They could've "gifted" the MC required to "rent" the holiday cosmetics if they can't figure out how to just switch then on for 0MC or set an HC amount for them... would've helped on the PR side if nothing else.
Have we forgotten just how little Josh and the new dev team can actually do? Again, yes, rentals are arse, and I am one who isn't going to buy into them, but at the same time, it's something that shows they are not outright ignoring the game, and is something 'newish' that wasn't previously available.
Well, that's not really the sentiment here and now. I think most of the people in this thread understand that they can't do a whole lot. I'm certainly not asking for new mechs and maps and matchmaking and voice comms and the like. I'm not asking for anything.
What I am saying is that rentals of that nature screams "give us money for pretty much nothing." Reloaded has a history of kind of just squeezing a game for dollars while applying minimal effort, and the decision to "rent" a digital item that is infinitely reproducible for zero to negligible costs - that was likely in the game when they took it over - is wholly in line with that kind of history. It offends me personally, as someone who has put the amount of time and money that I have into this game and its community in various attempts to help the game survive and make a comeback - what little I can actually do.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not particularly envious of Josh's position either, and thus far I have enjoyed his efforts to engage the community and work with what little resources he has to make the game better. That won't stop me from saying this is a shitty decision that reflects poorly on the game and the company. Not only does the buyer not get to keep the item, but to some degree it states "we'd rather try selling you the same thing again in the future than develop something ourselves or allow the community to help out as they've asked to do, time and time again."
I genuinely hope this is a misunderstanding. A misprint. Something. But if it's not, do you really think that this decision is indicative of a desire to work to get the game in a profitable state?
Even if they're short on cash - and money is always an issue, the decision to "rent" a digital item like that says "we would rather try and sell this to you again next year, than at some point in the next 365 days, develop something ourselves."
I'm not encouraging hostility toward Josh or Reloaded, but they are clearly trying to figure out how to make Hawken profitable, and I would encourage anyone to vote on this methodology with their wallets - especially in light of the fact that so many of us have our own ideas for cosmetics that we'd happily draw up and jump through however many hoops to get into the game.
It just reeks of laziness. I understand if you or anyone else doesn't feel quite so strongly, but I've put some stupid amount of time into making this game a better thing, and well. That's my thought process.
It's not about being able to do more faster with the game, to me. It's mostly about how loudly we've asked to help develop cosmetics for the game, to help the game be profitable versus this cosmetic based decision that's indicative of a plan to do nothing at all - and I can't ignore the fact that even though Reloaded has been infinitely better than ADH or MTR at working with the community, there have still been some pretty serious lapses gone either unexplained, or rectified well after the fact.
I'm in a feedback loop of thought here, but at no point am I looking at this decision and going "hey this is anything better than bad."
Edited by ticklemyiguana, 24 December 2015 - 09:28 PM.
Ok, first off, I am against the rental of cosmetics in general, especially if they cost MC. As previously mentioned, I'm not spending any of my MC on them this year, just as I passed on them when they came out before.
That being said, I do not envy the position Josh is in. People complain that 'nothing is happening, no content is being released', but when something is done, even if it's really bad cheese, people complain about it.
Have we forgotten just how little Josh and the new dev team can actually do? Again, yes, rentals are arse, and I am one who isn't going to buy into them, but at the same time, it's something that shows they are not outright ignoring the game, and is something 'newish' that wasn't previously available.
Seriously people, lighten up. I'm not saying to just accept whatever comes down the pipe, good or bad, but this kind of reaction is how we gets ants, why we can't have nice things, and if his comments are to be believed, is an example of the behavior that caused Phil Fish, the former dev of Fez, to give the big finger to the gaming world and quit making games.
As used to be said to new players who wanted free cosmetics, devs got bills and gotta eat like the rest of us.
Yea, I think this would have been a much better thing to do. Imy blue and snowflake infiltrator.

Salvage: An Idea to Stop Leavers
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate that we have devs again, and I'm happy that they've done some things. That being said, can you blame us for tryna keep them honest? I think we have an obligation to voice our opinion when we're dissatisfied.
Nope, not blaming anyone, and I expect the community to complain about bad decisions, just as we did with ADH (not that MTR listened to us, but that's another discussion).
What I was speaking to more was the 'vehemence' of the responses. Look at the first two in the thread... calling it a 'd*ck move' (I get email notifications of posts, and what it sends me is pre-bunny) and a sarcastic 'you were expecting?' comment.
Crock, yours was the first that was civil and level headed, followed by iguana.
We don't know if it was an attempt to bring something 'newish' back to the game for the holidiay, or if it was a 'money grab'. Heck, we don't even know if the old winter andromeda... err, prosk map is still around, or even works right with the current build of the game.
Throwing sarcasm and using terms that get bunnied does nothing to promote the cause/point, and the initial vibe I was getting from the thread was that torches and pitchforks were going to be pulled out sooner than later. So I jumped in to try and point out a few things that some might not have known as not everyone here has been around since the early days, and if I was lucky, be able to prevent a fire before it started. ![]()
Josh, Tiggs, if you read this thread, some kind of reason for putting this rental baloney up would be appreciated, and really, the christmas camos would be a much better thing to put back in for a limited time. Heck, putting the winter last eco and bringing back the jingle drone part would have been good as well.
Test dummy for science, Follower of Wheatons Law, usually hanging around #hawkenscrim and #spawn, occasional poster of YouTube videos and streaming. Can also be found on twitter
One thing that reloaded completely lacks or doesn't care about is customer expereience.
I guarantee that a well designed customer exprience and therefore propper interaction with the community would have prevented 75% of the criticism going on here and on the steam forum from coming up, and made people spend more money on the game.
But then there's also the chance that their statistics show that it's not worth the effort and the sheeple will continue to support the game.
Just look at this thread: https://community.pl...d-gameplay-etc/
Edited by ..., 25 December 2015 - 03:45 AM.
they also may be watching the overall player reaction to each offer whether permanent purchase or not. if a previous item was profitable, any subsequent offer would likely prove a positive cash flow.
remember: there are likely less than a couple hundred opinionated and frequent-posting forum members, they are likely vets like me that have been here 2 to 5 years, but Reloaded will always cater to the majority that feeds the piggy-bank (many whom will never visit this Forum or Steam's--even if they know about them).
i personally support anything that they attempt to keep the lights on, even if it's an obviously cheese move. i may not like it, but as already posted, i too have the freedom to ignore it.
expect more cheese.
in a business, it's all about the Bottom Line, and that, ultimately is what drives their actions in this game.
#: chown -R us ./base

"...oh great Itzamna, you shall know Us by the trail of Dead."
they also may be watching the overall player reaction to each offer whether permanent purchase or not. if a previous item was profitable, any subsequent offer would likely prove a positive cash flow.
remember: there are likely less than a couple hundred opinionated and frequent-posting forum members, they are likely vets like me that have been here 2 to 5 years, but Reloaded will always cater to the majority that feeds the piggy-bank (many whom will never visit this Forum or Steam's--even if they know about them).
i personally support anything that they attempt to keep the lights on, even if it's an obviously cheese move. i may not like it, but as already posted, i too have the freedom to ignore it.
expect more cheese.
in a business, it's all about the Bottom Line, and that, ultimately is what drives their actions in this game.
Unfortunately that still the way man businesses think and work, in the longer term this way of thinking fails in regards of customer retention and sustainable profit gain.
Edited by ..., 25 December 2015 - 07:20 AM.
The camos don't seem to have the rental symbol, but I would really like some confirmation from reloaded before buying any of the cosmetics.
The camos don't seem to have the rental symbol, but I would really like some confirmation from reloaded before buying any of the cosmetics.
Nah, camos should be rather easy to create and implement, therefore I don't think that they've got a time limit. Well, at least I've bought the camos now, I would be really annoyed if they would disappear from my inventory since they haven't been marked as rental cosmetics.
Nah, camos should be rather easy to create and implement, therefore I don't think that they've got a time limit. Well, at least I've bought the camos now, I would be really annoyed if they would disappear from my inventory since they haven't been marked as rental cosmetics.

Salvage: An Idea to Stop Leavers
Pretty sure that Reloaded would make more money - And make their customers happier - By offering the thruster as a permanent unlock. Raise the MC price if you have to, I'm sure people will be willing to shell out the cash.
Edited by Nightfirebolt, 25 December 2015 - 10:54 PM.
Pretty sure that Reloaded would make more money - And make their customers happier - By offering the thruster as a permanent unlock. Raise the MC price if you have to, I'm sure people will be willing to shell out the cash.
I would shell out for the drone. The thruster is kinda lame so meh, but that drone is the business

Salvage: An Idea to Stop Leavers
I had simply enabled the existing holiday offers in the store. There was evidence of some effort in there to *not* have any sort of permanent ones (besides, there was some mention of "OLD part A booster...", and there had been some functionality changes necessitating "new" vs "old' item definitions in some cases). I took the safe route, to be honest, since every time I've done something more drastic, something seems to break ;)
I *did* get the sense that the pricing seemed a bit steep, so if there was any fuzzy bunniness, you could argue that was it.
Tell ya' what, keep your eyes peeled for a midsummer holiday event where we'll have all these "OLD Part..." things straightened out. That's when we'll have more permanent item fun.
I had simply enabled the existing holiday offers in the store. There was evidence of some effort in there to *not* have any sort of permanent ones (besides, there was some mention of "OLD part A booster...", and there had been some functionality changes necessitating "new" vs "old' item definitions in some cases). I took the safe route, to be honest, since every time I've done something more drastic, something seems to break ;)
I *did* get the sense that the pricing seemed a bit steep, so if there was any fuzzy bunniness, you could argue that was it.
Tell ya' what, keep your eyes peeled for a midsummer holiday event where we'll have all these "OLD Part..." things straightened out. That's when we'll have more permanent item fun.

Salvage: An Idea to Stop Leavers
I had simply enabled the existing holiday offers in the store. There was evidence of some effort in there to *not* have any sort of permanent ones (besides, there was some mention of "OLD part A booster...", and there had been some functionality changes necessitating "new" vs "old' item definitions in some cases). I took the safe route, to be honest, since every time I've done something more drastic, something seems to break ;)
I *did* get the sense that the pricing seemed a bit steep, so if there was any fuzzy bunniness, you could argue that was it.
Tell ya' what, keep your eyes peeled for a midsummer holiday event where we'll have all these "OLD Part..." things straightened out. That's when we'll have more permanent item fun.
i was going to rant on rentals, But this makes me feel way better. Thanks...
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-Shade__
I had simply enabled the existing holiday offers in the store. There was evidence of some effort in there to *not* have any sort of permanent ones (besides, there was some mention of "OLD part A booster...", and there had been some functionality changes necessitating "new" vs "old' item definitions in some cases). I took the safe route, to be honest, since every time I've done something more drastic, something seems to break ;)
I *did* get the sense that the pricing seemed a bit steep, so if there was any fuzzy bunniness, you could argue that was it.
Tell ya' what, keep your eyes peeled for a midsummer holiday event where we'll have all these "OLD Part..." things straightened out. That's when we'll have more permanent item fun.
Thanks for the heads-up, looking forward to the team having a solid handle on this.
Thanks for chiming in on this! This sort of communication keeps us from turning feral and starting riots
This is why i like the communication and weekly posts, keeps stuff civil mostly.
"but the dead horse has been beaten so many times it's practically a pulpy mess in the barn by now."
-M1lkshake
I had simply enabled the existing holiday offers in the store. There was evidence of some effort in there to *not* have any sort of permanent ones (besides, there was some mention of "OLD part A booster...", and there had been some functionality changes necessitating "new" vs "old' item definitions in some cases). I took the safe route, to be honest, since every time I've done something more drastic, something seems to break ;)
I *did* get the sense that the pricing seemed a bit steep, so if there was any fuzzy bunniness, you could argue that was it.
Tell ya' what, keep your eyes peeled for a midsummer holiday event where we'll have all these "OLD Part..." things straightened out. That's when we'll have more permanent item fun.
I'm glad this is the case and it was not a conscious decision. As always, we all appreciate the communication - and I believe most of us wish there was more of it - even a minimal post every week or two saying "hey we're still here, working on figuring out x mechanics. Still only have x number of people working on Hawken but stuff is being done." Doesn't have to be as significant as the less frequent stuff.
It may invite some criticism that you might feel the need to take time to address, but in a game where we have so little to look forward to on a month to month basis, it may just keep my own attitude at bay, much less the writhing masses. And besides, if you feel there's a real need to address a concern, it's probably better that it was voiced in the first place.
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