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#1
cbrxx

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Consider abandoning or modifying grouping.

 

I will make this brief as it's bed time.  I'm not going to throw my mad mmo credentials at you but know I've put in some hours.

 

Grouping in this game is insanely  ....  Oh I said it...  OP.  There's that op word we all hate and is overused. 

 

I don't have a ton of shooter xp, I started this game in Dec 2014 but I've played mmo's for more than 10 years.

 

You put one capable / more than capable person in charge of some idiots and they're going to cause some major damage against a team that has no communication.  I've done it, add some talent and it's even more devastating.

 

A majority of matches (and I can't prove it but experience tells me) where there's a major imbalance are either the cause of one overskilled player or a group of players smart enough to stay together.

 

You need to make up your mind.  Group play or random play.  Give the new player a new player experience.  One smurf can wreck a newbie match but a majority of those will tire of it after a gaming session. 

 

You're going to have to roll the dice but encouraging team play vs encouraging solo play against those who are playing on a team is going to have more of an impact on your business than any new trinket/paint or even mech you can add to the game.

 

Focus on the team play and the solo play will improve.   Games with more of a goal than kdr are more fun, you just have to let people know it.  Joining a siege multiple times with people playing tdm will not encourage the strategic game play the true enthusiasts are hoping for. 

 

Stop encouraging people to leave matches, give them an incentive to stay in tdm if that's there preference rather than ditching the match to gain an extra 20 hc quickly to get to their next mech.  Lower the time between matches in half, 30 seconds to encourage the matchmaking system to keep people in their mmr range and offer an hc award for staying.

 

Tell me your thoughts.


Edited by cbrxx, 14 July 2015 - 05:25 AM.

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#2
JeffMagnum

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I don't think a nonexistent company is worrying about a lack of funds right now. 


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#3
System64

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Dude, Hawken is managed by Reloaded now. Meteor and Adhesive both closed down last year. They just haven't changed the start up screens.


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#4
OdinTheWise

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i dont mean to be blunt but you are beating a dead horse, come back when you have searched the forums for topics like this one (trust me, there is no shortage), if you want to play an actual coordinated match come to war wednesday till then stop complaining because you will get this in just about any game you play. come back to the forums when you have something new to discus.

 

https://community.pl...to-die-edition/

 

side not: you seem very miss informed. adhesive no longer exists, it is reloaded now


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#5
dorobo

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They wanted too much.. Oh that truth hurts so much!

 

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Edited by dorobo, 13 July 2015 - 10:35 PM.

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#6
cbrxx

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Ok, yeah I've been reading the loading screens in game and yeah, some of you have been here longer.  I like many of you want this game to succeed, someone just needs to make it happen.  I don't care if similar sentiments have been expressed, if this is reloaded instead of adhesive perhaps its worth another conversation.



#7
reVelske

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Barely matters if it's Adhesive or whoever, OP is trying to argue other points.

 

There are bad team players and TDMers in every game, no matter how obvious you make the map objectives be or how much you emphasis that teamwork is far more important than individual skill, they won't give a damn. This is not a problem unique to Hawken and there is very little one can do about it. Some people are just complete nincompoops, end of story.

 

Stop encouraging people to leave matches

Nobody is encouraged to leave match, people are simply not discouraged, they are NOT the same. Suggestions have been raised to combat this for months/years, I honestly think we'll see something being implemented for this before endtimes, but that remains to be seen.

 

Also, now that I look at it, the thread topic feels like a Buzzfeed clickbait title >:|


Edited by reVelske, 13 July 2015 - 10:56 PM.

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#8
Onstrava

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What people should understand is that this game has changed developers. It takes time to change the game to what they want it to be, coding coding coding you get it. No they can't change everything within the time line they where given the rights to this game. They are changing things and adding things as we speak, they're also hiring. So just give the game alittle time and we will see what Reloaded wants to do with Hawken. I'm not sure many people caught the post from what the Captain said alittle while back but they hiring designers and what not, that means new mechs, events, gamemodes, ex. Give them some time, they're getting it done. Just stick around and see.

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Hold on to the things you care about most, even if others see it as insignificant..If you can't be true to yourself, are you really living?

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#9
CrimsonKaim

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Just leave my cent here once again.

 

 

Time is a resource that is unavailable for Hawken. It was wasted before, high quality in a short period of time is the challenge that Josh faces.

 

 

For me, I am already gone. Just a matter of time until I leave the forums or deinstall Hawken (again). I don't doubt that I am the only one going to do this.


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#10
JeffMagnum

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You can edit titles with the full editor btw


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#11
PoopSlinger

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CBRXX, this game is very reliant on team play for sure.  The heavy reliance on teamwork was one of the reasons I got into this game.  What the game needs back is in-game Mics/Coms/VOIP whatever you want to call it.  You can't transmit battle information quick enough with typing.  It was also a lot of fun and you got to know people a bit too.  I think a connection with other plays through voice and being able to ask and get answers in-game with a voice would help retain new players.  Adding that extra little human element, especially if people could be nice about it, could go a long way for both retaining players and promoting teamwork. 

 

As an aside.  When I first joined Hawken the community amazed me at how non-toxic the people were on voice chat.  My only experience with public-coms came from various COD, Halo, etc titles on my roommates xbox.  I was amazed at the lack of sexism, racism, homophobia, violent threats, profanity and people having sex with various members of my family.


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Come on Crafty, you have been officially called out on your lies. Your online reputation is at stake here, this is just like an old school street race running for pink slips. Its run what you brung and hope its enough. Put up or shut the fuzzy bunny up.


#12
cbrxx

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Thanks Jeff. 

 

PoopSlinger the chat was there when I first started.  There will always be someone in voice that messes things up. 

 

Back to my original point, grouping is too powerful.  I've read it raises the mmr 100 points per person to compensate, not sure if that's true.  Was Josh the number cruncher?  I think if they have a look at the impact grouping has they'll find good teams have more than double the effective punch per match than they do solo.

 

It's not that I don't want people to group, my buddy bought the nemesis bundle.  We fooled around a bit teaming up but that put me, an average 1680 mmr person in matches with brand new players with the added bonus of communicating with the new guy.  He was much more effective when he was able to keep up with me.

 

I know how much fun it probably is for these multiplayer groups to mow constantly through the entire map but it doesn't promote player retention. 

 

 

Revelske, more hc is incentive/encouragement. 



#13
Hyginos

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Ohhhh you meant literally partying up, not just a team working together?

 

Yeah parties break matchmaking a bit. Not enough to singlehandedly sink the Hawken franchise though.


MFW Howken

 

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#14
cbrxx

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I will acknowledge they gave more incentive for time in match recently but some people including myself don't want to wait a full minute for the next match to start, chop the minute into 20 seconds.

 

Hyginos, we won't know unless their number crunchers post some stats but if they did I think it'd be quite the eye opener.


Edited by cbrxx, 14 July 2015 - 06:53 AM.


#15
hoghead

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Hey everyone uh, Fake is leaving again!
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#16
OdinTheWise

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nobody really uses the party function anymore  because it is a little on the broke side


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#17
M1lkshake

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You COULD party up with two other people and participate in the Try Hard Wizard Tournament coming this saturday. Link is in my signature. 5000mc reward per player (first place). Just saying.


"How do you avoid these cognitive biases? First, be aware of them. Recognize that we're all susceptible. Second, reconsider your first instinct whenever you've performed poorly. Often, these first thoughts revolve around preserving self-esteem and distancing yourself from responsibility. Always consider poor performances your fault, as that places them within your realm of control." - Nept

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#18
hoghead

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5000mc first prizes per player? How many first places will there be? ( No sarcasm intended or implied )

Edited by hoghead, 14 July 2015 - 09:07 AM.


#19
hoghead

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Opps

Edited by hoghead, 14 July 2015 - 11:02 AM.


#20
Elite_is_salty

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For me, I am already gone.

 

How many times did you say this?


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#21
Aregon

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How many times did you say this?

He wants us to make sure he is completely gone, because mentioning it at every damn possible occasion completely makes that seem like the case.


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#22
EM1O

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chop the minute into 20 seconds.

oh hell no. 

the time now is barely sufficient to hit the can, ("Did you wash your hands before you opened that fridge?"), grab a Refreshment, get the chips and dip, and get back before the in-match clock starts bleeping at you.

if you shorten it, that means you're going to have at least one (if not most) of your team sitting around AFK.

it ain't broke, don't try fixing it.

:no:


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#23
cbrxx

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I know 20 seconds isn't a lot but it usually takes another 30 seconds or more for enough people to click the damn ready button, go quick and keep the beverages in a cooler or fridge nearby.


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#24
EM1O

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hahahaha i actually do have a dorm-fridge 2 feet to my left just for that reason. yes, i am a dedicated drunk/gamer/punk-ass player. that post was in sympathy for those that do not practice Situational Awareness on a real-life level.

:D


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#25
KaylaClaire

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the "Deathball" to which you are mentioning is easily dispelled, when they're rolling a convoy on your team send one or two to flank, don't boost, don't use items, don't fire until you can see the white in their eyes. I call this "Going dark", doing the above will keep you off enemy radar until you can ambush them, or if they have scanners deployed.
anyways... when you get close enough, light em up and either... attack attack attack or turn tail after about 10 seconds, some will break off to follow you, just be sure you can dodge ^_-

I will admit however... having a fuctioning voice chat makes this a helluva lot easier


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#26
Call_Me_Ishmael

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the "Deathball" to which you are mentioning is easily dispelled, when they're rolling a convoy on your team send one or two to flank, don't boost, don't use items, don't fire until you can see the white in their eyes. I call this "Going dark", doing the above will keep you off enemy radar until you can ambush them, or if they have scanners deployed.
anyways... when you get close enough, light em up and either... attack attack attack or turn tail after about 10 seconds, some will break off to follow you, just be sure you can dodge ^_-

I will admit however... having a fuctioning voice chat makes this a helluva lot easier

 

I've been doing it just fine solo/no chat for 1.5 years...


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#27
Nov8tr

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nobody really uses the party function anymore  because it is a little on the broke side

Gonna have to disagree with you on this Odin my friend. I see a LOT of obvious groups on TS who trash match after match. Same group of people over and over on the same side over and over. So yeah, parties. Sometimes it 2 or 3 sometimes, its the entire other team. Just depends. A group of decent players (don't have to be 2000+ MMR ppl) who are partied and on some VOIP TS, whatever, will roll over low/mid players or even a disorganized group like childs play. I've watched it a thousand times over the years I've been here. See more of it now. For guilds, great idea. Lets them go head to head. They are prepared for it. Most Hawken players are not prepared for a partied group. I've said so for years and been ignored for years. Now people are beginnning to see it. Not right, not fair and definitely not good for new people. Again we are trying to build a NEW customer base so the game will survive, not set it on fire. I'm sure I'll get some who disagree, some who will make fun and some who will agree. But in the end, it needs to change. Believe or not.

 

(edited for grammer)


Edited by Nov8tr, 14 July 2015 - 09:55 PM.

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"Nov8tr" is pronounced "INNOVATOR"

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#28
cbrxx

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Thank you nov8tr and I honestly expected to be flamed way worse that I have been by those defending group play.

 

The problem is, and the reason I hesitated making this post is I love group play, it's just not fair to non grouped individuals.   PERIOD



#29
Nov8tr

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Yeah group against group is a blast. I do War Wednesdays and they rock! The people are great and many are friends. But that said, yeah stomping people is just wrong. It reminds me of bullies too much. I despise bullies.


"Nov8tr" is pronounced "INNOVATOR"

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#30
TangledMantis

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You COULD party up with two other people and participate in the Try Hard Wizard Tournament coming this saturday. Link is in my signature. 5000mc reward per player (first place). Just saying.

Arent those tourneys kindof biased? I mean, you join them to win some MC but every time one comes around everyone just gets stomped by the top 50 players who keep walking away with free MC they basically arranged for themselves? 

 

Arent these tourneys just a way for the elite to wave their e-peen around and congratulate eachother?


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#31
Hyginos

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Arent those tourneys kindof biased? I mean, you join them to win some MC but every time one comes around everyone just gets stomped by the top 50 players who keep walking away with free MC they basically arranged for themselves? 

 

Arent these tourneys just a way for the elite to wave their e-peen around and congratulate eachother?

 

K, so:

  • Teams made up of top level players show up to these cups to play against other top level players (or in some cases to make a statement about the viability of Battleturkey). Stomps surely happen, but I assure you all of the matches are played with mutual respect.
  • Yes, the point of the try-weekly is to show how good you are. That is by definition the purpose of a tournament.
  • We will run cups whether there is MC reward or not. (eg, all the cups prior to this upcoming one.)

So yeah, turns out people run tournaments because they enjoy the competition. Crazy huh?


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#32
Hek_naw

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oh hell no. 

the time now is barely sufficient to hit the can, ("Did you wash your hands before you opened that fridge?"), grab a Refreshment, get the chips and dip, and get back before the in-match clock starts bleeping at you.

if you shorten it, that means you're going to have at least one (if not most) of your team sitting around AFK.

it ain't broke, don't try fixing it.

:no:

This is why I've learned to always take a leak before playing Hawken.  :laugh: Pre-game wait times are quite short already.



#33
EM1O

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woops. guilty of team Partying. but if there is a deathball developed, i'll be the LoneWolf Infil flanking and harassing, or the YOLO-driver Brawler/Mobile-Meatshield ripping into their center. I may get highest kill-count, but never the highest KDR.

btw: did a Siege, 3-14-17 on WW last night and only dropped my MMR 5pts--steal-killing Merl in the Amber Alert helped, i think. woot! what fun that was, tho!

 

has this thread wandered a bit from OP?

:yes:


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#34
hoghead

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This is why I've learned to always take a leak before playing Hawken.  :laugh: Pre-game wait times are quite short already.

anigif_enhanced-3665-1397858102-23.gifMy age you pee when and at every opportunity  you get so the wait time between games doesn't bother me. :blush:



#35
TangledMantis

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K, so:

  • Teams made up of top level players show up to these cups to play against other top level players (or in some cases to make a statement about the viability of Battleturkey). Stomps surely happen, but I assure you all of the matches are played with mutual respect.
  • Yes, the point of the try-weekly is to show how good you are. That is by definition the purpose of a tournament.
  • We will run cups whether there is MC reward or not. (eg, all the cups prior to this upcoming one.)

So yeah, turns out people run tournaments because they enjoy the competition. Crazy huh?

 

What I mean is that we have this group of high ranking players that compete against eachother. At some point they decided to add rewards to the competition, but since its mostly exclusive, the reward is out of reach to anyone but the organizers. 

 

Its like a politician taking a salary bonus for 'a job well done' even though the politician was the one that defined their own job. 

 

"First one to the top of the mountain gets the golden egg! Ready.. set... oh wait, im already at the top. Well, ill just take this egg and be on my way." 

 

If it was true competition, there should be classes and requirements. Like - 'established accounts with x hours within x mmr range quality for x tourney' There are weight classes in boxing for a reason. MMR was created to balance games. Why not use it to balance competition? 

 

Instead we have competition for MC that anyone can compete for, but we all know its only ever going to consistantly end up with maybe 25 different players out of the thousands every time.



#36
Kopra

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What I mean is that we have this group of high ranking players that compete against eachother. At some point they decided to add rewards to the competition, but since its mostly exclusive, the reward is out of reach to anyone but the organizers. 

 

Its like a politician taking a salary bonus for 'a job well done' even though the politician was the one that defined their own job. 

 

"First one to the top of the mountain gets the golden egg! Ready.. set... oh wait, im already at the top. Well, ill just take this egg and be on my way." 

 

If it was true competition, there should be classes and requirements. Like - 'established accounts with x hours within x mmr range quality for x tourney' There are weight classes in boxing for a reason. MMR was created to balance games. Why not use it to balance competition? 

 

Instead we have competition for MC that anyone can compete for, but we all know its only ever going to consistantly end up with maybe 25 different players out of the thousands every time.

 

It's a lot harder to manipulate your weight so you get into the desired bracket in boxing without also hurting your actual performance. MMR can be manipulated and artificially lowered or disguised into a smurf account: "yup, that guy that plays like a 2400 player is totally a 1800."

 

Weight also doesn't equate skill, but it gives a good advantage. Kind of like connection speed, but no one would ever suggest making brackets based on connection.



#37
Hyginos

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"First one to the top of the mountain gets the golden egg! Ready.. set... oh wait, im already at the top. Well, ill just take this egg and be on my way." 

 

You realize, of course, that the two MC rewarded competitions thus far were announced without the foreknowledge that there would be a reward?

 

The race to the top of the mountain was announced as a test of skill. Someone noticed a glint at the top as the contestants gathered.


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#38
nepacaka

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A majority of matches (and I can't prove it but experience tells me) where there's a major imbalance are either the cause of one overskilled player or a group of players smart enough to stay together.

 

sometimes it happen, when 3 player go in group without any communication, just because they smarter. sometimes i see tech, who look on our team, and than starting heal only me like a "personal tech" :D

 

what do you suggest? gain player +100 bonus HC if he a dumb?

 

 

Lower the time between matches in half

 

nice idea. suggested many times, and I still vote for it.


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#39
DieselCat

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Keep the time between matches the same...no need to make it shorter, they're fine as they are . It's the teens with raging hormones bursting out their eyeballs that can't sit still for two seconds, take a chill pill, smoke a joint, get off the caffeine and for god's sakes stop drinking those awful energy drinks....they'll fuzzy bunnyng kill you.

 

Some of you people are like children on sugar shockers bouncing off the walls. Learn to chill out, your body will thank you for it later in life.....Damn, I have to use the head...don't start without me...... :tongue: 

 

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#40
Panzermanathod

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Yeah, I want time between matches to remain the same. Sometimes I want to check stuff in between matches or quickly rework a layout.






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