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Problems with MMR

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#1
Dawn_of_Ash

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From what I understand, MMR is based off you beating up players of a similar MMR to increase your matchmaking rank and the cycle continues as you go against more and more people with higher MMR and so your MMR also increases (please correct me if I'm wrong).

 

So tell me, what happens when your MMR is not right? Ever since the influx of activity in Oceania+Asia ever since the two regions have been fused together, I've been playing more and more in the region and loving my 100 ping rather than the 300+ I was having in the US. But I began to notice something. People in the region have averages of 1400-ish MMR. And while I did feel guilty when I dared to join the first time, I immediately regretted feeling guilty. The players were dodging my Hellfires on Bunker and rebounding with very accurate shots.

 

Maybe it was the one server I was in, but I feel that the MMR, in Oceania+Asia at least, is out of wack! People have been coming back into AU/Asia with too low MMR because of their bad lag in US and/or have returned to the game! Why would I care about this? - you may ask. Well, other than me not knowing which server is legit new players and which one isn't, high-tier AU players (at the very least) actually are not able to join these said games because of the average being so low.

 

Is this a problem that is seen in other servers, or is it just Oceania + Asia?

 

Also, I have no clue to help this problem without any intervention from either the devs or the community - and even then it is still iffy. This is a problem without a clear-cut solution and I feel that it'd only continue to grow as time goes on with a loss of community due to the possible unbalanced games that crop up. 


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#2
ticklemyiguana

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Oh wow. Yeah, I can see that being an issue. I think it'll sort itself out though, my bet is within a month or so. In the meantime, hopefully more and more players will play in the Oceania region.


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#3
nokari

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I would say 1 server example is not enough to go on.

 

There may be a slight improvement in their actions because of better ping, but most players who have consistently played long term with poor ping and have high skills were generally already compensating for it.

Next time you play, check Scrimbot to find out what the actual MMR range is of the server you're in, or better yet, use http://hawken.herokuapp.com/ to check individuals' MMRs. My guess is that you were either playing people who actually had high MMRs being mixed with lower MMRs, they were smurfs, or there are people who used to play and have decided to just start over with new accounts from scratch. It's possible their MMRs were skewed because of prior ping issues being a handicap, but this issue will quickly resolve itself as they continue to play.

 

Whatever the case, the more people play, the faster their MMR will go up if they're so good.


Edited by nokari, 08 April 2015 - 09:03 PM.

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#4
Amidatelion

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Straya and Oceania are in desperate need of population or for MMR to be turned off for those regions. If there isn't enough population in NA to get matchmaking working properly, there isn't enough population in Oceania for MMR to work at all.


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#5
Lioot

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I agree with Dawn, my MMR is too high to join most of the games in the Asia-Oceania region. I can join the game via match making, but this occasionally puts me in games with servers based in Tokyo rather than in Sydney 



#6
capnjosh

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I'm getting the analytics systems back online, so MMR distributions and other views on the topic will be very interesting to see.  I'll try to publish what I find.


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#7
Amidatelion

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I'm getting the analytics systems back online, so MMR distributions and other views on the topic will be very interesting to see.  I'll try to publish what I find.

 

Trade you. Our opinions for your numbers.


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#8
Lioot

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I'm getting the analytics systems back online, so MMR distributions and other views on the topic will be very interesting to see.  I'll try to publish what I find.

 

Well I don't know what this is for but if it works and I can join low MMR games, I just hope it'll still be fun



#9
Dawn_of_Ash

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Well I don't know what this is for but if it works and I can join low MMR games, I just hope it'll still be fun

 

It is, Lioot. :) Just came from one, although Kuro joined partway through and Dingo...and Thorn, so that may have helped. ^^; Unfortunate that you missed it.



#10
Dawn_of_Ash

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I would say 1 server example is not enough to go on.

 

And I do agree - I think that it may have been my frustration after one of these games that may have influenced such a hasty decision on my part, but I still feel that it is a problem. Higher players not getting matches = smurfs, and I don't want to see any more smurfs in an already dying region. Hence why I don't want to be a part of these 1-star games in case they truly are newbies. That, and that the servers are almost always full...and the MMR (my mmr dropped MASSIVELY after that one match, okay! XD).

 

If the MMR range is truely around 1400, then possibly AU is a "playground" for the newer players, but I seriously doubt that all the players there, playing almost every-time I'm on with full servers, are newbies. My experience so far leads me to think otherwise.

 

Also, on the subject of the Scrimbot and Shady's (?) app, I do use it often, which is where I got the 1400 average MMR stat from. I keep checking the app before I play and it almost always has a full server with the average MMR being around 1400. You can check it yourself (since I can't find the print screen button on this laptop XD).



#11
Fantus_Longhorn

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I think we're heading towards a point where a complete reset (or some kind of re-balance as described here) is going to be the best direction to head in.

 

In the case of the OP, I wonder if the isolation of those players all being at a similar skill level has led to their MMR not increasing. If you're playing against players of a similar skill level then your MMR shouldn't increase all that much. Suddenly increasing the pool of players brings in a wider range of MMR and the system needs to re-balance to take them into account. The ping change would also make a difference to their effective skill level, compounding the issue.


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#12
AngryOgre

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TBH all my progress was earned via alpha and CB. When the shift to the 1-30 levels happened I was at 30 right out the gate. A complete reset might be interesting, for all the vets and newbies to experience the grind would shine some light on early hawken from an experienced pov.

#13
CrimsonKaim

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TBH all my progress was earned via alpha and CB. When the shift to the 1-30 levels happened I was at 30 right out the gate. A complete reset might be interesting, for all the vets and newbies to experience the grind would shine some light on early hawken from an experienced pov.

 

Oh please no hard wipe. What's with the ones who paid MC to purchase mechs early? OR transferred XP?

 

To the OP. Imbalance has always been a great problem in Hawken, even since I joined back in 12.12.2012. Thing is, MMR and MM needs to be adjusted but this is a hard task to do, not only in Hawken. 

Determining a player's skill by a system will never be perfect, nor will a subjective rating be. However, some MMs are considered to work fine/good, I can not say that about the  Hawken MM.


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#14
_incitatus

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 A complete reset might be interesting, for all the vets and newbies to experience the grind would shine some light on early hawken from an experienced pov.

 

No.  A complete reset would piss off so many people.  Reset of MMR?  Yes.  Make me re-grind to level 30?  Nope. Nope. Nope.  That would be silly.


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#15
crockrocket

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TBH all my progress was earned via alpha and CB. When the shift to the 1-30 levels happened I was at 30 right out the gate. A complete reset might be interesting, for all the vets and newbies to experience the grind would shine some light on early hawken from an experienced pov.

 

An mmr reset would be very interesting, could encourage a lot of people to play a lot for at least a week or so. Full reset though? Nah I'm good.

 

EDIT: N00b stomping would be pretty bad for a little while though, and matchmaking would be havoc until mmrs had normalized again.


Edited by crockrocket, 09 April 2015 - 11:23 AM.

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#16
Dawn_of_Ash

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EDIT: N00b stomping would be pretty bad for a little while though, and matchmaking would be havoc until mmrs had normalized again.

 

This was the biggest reason why I hesitated with the idea of an MMR reset. Even though, admittedly, it's a quite similar experience currently with smurfs and the poor matchmaking itself, I'm not sure how bad it would be for the newer players. But then again, I also feel that if the idea was implemented later, when the game possibly has more people, it would affect more people and ruin their experience.

 

I feel that if an MMR reset is going to be implemented, then it should be soon.



#17
AngryOgre

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I said it would be interesting, and it would be. It would be interesting to see everyone claw their way back up to the top, in every respect. And just refund the points...

But social experiments are just simply interesting to watch unfold.

:p




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