If you start seeing enough people doing it to have a representative sample of the population then be sure to let us know.
![]()
I already fuzzy bunnyng did.
If you start seeing enough people doing it to have a representative sample of the population then be sure to let us know.
![]()
I already fuzzy bunnyng did.
[DELETED]
fuzzy bunny you CZeroFive
You're gonna end up being penned in The ButtSatisfier's next erotic short story at this rate.
Try to imagine that people like you.
Try to imagine that they are not trying to get into hostile confrontations where you always lose.
Instead of bending the spoon try to imagine the truth.
There is no spoon.
Did I say Call Me Ishmael?
You should call me Luna.
I already fuzzy bunnyng did.
Oh, fantastic! Do you have a dataset you can share? Or a rough estimate of what % of the population you saw doing those things?
Or are we supposed to rely on your anecdotal claims?
Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 25 March 2016 - 11:27 AM.
Oh, fantastic! Do you have a dataset you can share? Or a rough estimate of what % of the population you saw doing those things?
Or are we supposed to rely on your anecdotal claims?
I got your dataset right here.
See, I already know where your childish game is going, no matter what data I produce you are just going to keep saying it isn't large, good, or doesn't use enough fuzzy bunnyng colors on the spreadsheet. You are just arguing to fuzzy bunnyng argue with no real point, rather than admitting that Hawken has an easily exploitable feature that can be abused to secure wins and that many players abuse it nightly.
People like harmless_kittens are smart enough to visibly notice this sort of activity in game and not quickly dismiss it off as some random lame excuse that is false or a coincidence.
[DELETED]
fuzzy bunny you CZeroFive
But, to the game's credit, being on the winning side doesn't affect MMR at all by itself, correct?
The advantages that I can detect to being on the winning side (besides pride) is that if you stick like glue to that awesome player you will likely have more kills and assists yourself, which WILL help your MMR. Does this sound right?
See, I already know where your childish game is going, no matter what data I produce you are just going to keep [doing what I normally do in most of the things I say in this forum:] saying it isn't large, good, or doesn't use enough fuzzy bunnyng colors on the spreadsheet. You are just [again, doing what I normally do in this forum by] arguing to fuzzy bunnyng argue with no real point
Hehehehe.
And for what it's worth, if you did produce something that looked like a representative sample size, I'd happily concede and admit that I was wrong and learned something new. We rarely see that kind of data here in the forums, so I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one who would appreciate seeing it.
Rather than admitting that Hawken has an easily exploitable feature that can be abused to secure wins
Wait, what? When did you want me to admit that? I never commented on how easy that exploit was. In fact, I agree with you there - it's fairly easy. I'm just saying you aren't presenting enough proof that it's happening any more than any other explanation.
and that many players abuse it nightly
This is the first time you've cited this happening at a particular frequency in this thread. I haven't seen it happen nightly. When was the last time you saw it happen nightly?
Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 25 March 2016 - 01:48 PM.
But, to the game's credit, being on the winning side doesn't affect MMR at all by itself, correct?
The advantages that I can detect to being on the winning side (besides pride) is that if you stick like glue to that awesome player you will likely have more kills and assists yourself, which WILL help your MMR. Does this sound right?
Sometimes its not always only about just focusing on MMR, there are plenty of players that don't give a care in the world about having a high MMR and all the troubles that are associated with it. Some players purposely tank their own MMR so that they constantly get placed in with weaker players. Theres even players that simply would rather focus on other aspects that are easily displayed in their in game stats such as K/D ratio, total wins, or win percentage. Different players have their own personal goals driving them.
Hehehehe.
blah blah blah
I told you already, I'm done with your little game. harmless_kittens has noticed it happening, why haven't you? I suggest you go play more games with the general public, maybe you'll observe and learn something.
[DELETED]
fuzzy bunny you CZeroFive
On the subject of players leaving games to try and get onto the winning team, while this does happen, it's not as frequent as some are making it sound. And while there is a small number of repeat offenders, it's actually entirely possible for Matchmaker to unbalance a match with even teams in favor of the winning team, and here's why.
When a player starts joining a match, the server reserves a slot for them. This is the point at which you'll see "player connecting" on the scoreboard. It's at this point that Matchmaker places the reserved player slot on a team based on rules in what appears to be this specific order:
Rule 1: Which team has fewer players?
Rule 2: Which team is losing?
It will first check which team has fewer players, NOT which team is losing. This is why when players join, no matter if they're fresh accounts or 2500MMR+ vets, they are always placed on the team with less players, no matter what the score is. If the teams have an equal number of players, it will next check which team is losing and place the joining player's reservation on that team, again regardless of the player's skill level.
As more players attempt to join the match, more slots are reserved. It's important to note that these are reservations, NOT absolute certainties that the player will even connect. It's fairly common to see "player connecting" for several seconds and the player never connects. Also important, Matchmaker sees connected players and connecting player reservations equally, so a player in the match is no different to it than "player connecting" is.
With this in mind, let's take a look at a scenario that can and has happened many times:
- One team is losing badly (5v6, red is the losing team)
- A player on the losing team leaves (5v5)
- Another player attempts to join the game, reserving a slot on the losing team (Matchmaker sees this as 5v6)
- A second player attempts to join the game while the first is still trying to connect, reserving a slot on the winning team (Matchmaker sees this as 6v6)
- For whatever reason, the first joining player doesn't connect, but the second joining player does, thus unbalancing the match player-wise in favor of the winning team (6v5)
Because the game does not actually say in the log or on-screen when a player is attempting to join, only when they actually connect, you may never see the first player's connection attempt if you aren't watching the scoreboard. Thus, it might appear that Matchmaker had placed the newest player on the winning team mistakenly. It's even possible for this to happen:
- Two teams have the same number of players, but a player on the losing team leaves (5v4)
- Two players attempt to connect, reserving two slots on the losing team (Matchmaker sees this as 5v6)
- The first two connecting players don't connect, but the third player does and appears to have been placed on the winning team with severe imbalance as a Matchmaker mistake (6v4)
- At this point, Matchmaker will ask players on the winning team to switch, or forcefully do it to someone
This is also theoretically possible:
- Two players on the losing team leave (4v2)
- Matchmaker asks players on the winning team to switch, but before any switching occurs, three players attempt to connect (possibly a party), reserving three slots on the losing team and cancelling any team switching attempts (Matchmaker sees this as 4v5)
- Two more players attempt to connect during this time and succeed, but the other three don't (6v2)
- Matchmaker again asks players on the winning team to switch
As you can see, it's entirely possible for the teams to get screwed up royally. This is a flaw in Matchmaker. Instead of placing players on teams before they actually connect to the match, Matchmaker should really be deciding where to place players when they actually connect to the match.
Let's make this more specific, addressing the problem of players leaving a match to rejoin the winning team. Because of the way Matchmaker works, it's actually not that easy to leave and expect to join the winning team. Remember that Matchmaker takes into consideration the two factors above when placing players into a match in progress.
There are three main possibilities that happen when you immediately leave a game from the losing team:
Case 1. The losing team is now down at least 1 player
Case 2. The teams are now evenly balanced player-wise
Case 3. The losing team is still up by at least 1 player (rare)
Now let's look at this case by case, with the idea in mind that you left the match to attempt to rejoin the winning team, assuming no other players join between the time you leave and rejoin.
In Case 1, Matchmaker will place you on the losing team because of Rule 1.
In Case 2, Matchmaker will place you on the losing team because of Rule 2.
In Case 3, Matchmaker will place you on the winning team because of Rule 1.
This is only assuming no other players attempt to join during this time. If another player was to attempt a connection, and you join afterward, you would be placed on the winning team in Case 1 and Case 2, but not in Case 3.
Now let's consider the idea that someone in the match is helping to coordinate rejoining via VoIP, chat, or game invite. Because there's a varying amount of time between the actual decision to leave and all the coordination involved, there's still many opportunities for other players to join the match between when you leave and when you return. Far more likely is TheButtSatisfier's explanation, quoted below. Not only have I seen this happen to other players, I've also had it happen to me when trying to get back into a game.
Anecdotally, what I see most often is someone leaving a match for whatever reason and then they get dropped back in by matchmaker. Then they say, "Well, I guess I'm playing this game" in chat, and they stay for another round or so.
Sometimes I leave a match because of circumstances beyond my control (power surge, network issues, game crash) and I usually can't get into the same match because I have to random in via Matchmaker, thus I don't even know if I'll even get back into the same match I was in. In cases like these, I usually want to get back into the same match before it finishes so I don't lose the HC and XP I earned. It isn't about winning or losing; I could end up on the losing team and still secure the points I earned. But other times I leave a match simply because the match is staked in favor of the team I was placed on (yes, people do leave when their team is winning). Playing on a heavily stacked winning team isn't much fun, especially knowing the other team is probably already annoyed to hell.
I've even seen players come back to the same match over and over, and they'll still leave even if they're placed on the winning team. They just don't want to stay in the match for whatever reason, but they can only join a match by relying on Matchmaker, and Matchmaker thinks that's the best match for them.
So yes, while it is possible for players to leave a match and return to the winning team, it isn't commonly or frequently intentional. I say this based on the above knowledge, and the fact that this is based on observations made over 1400+ hours of play time over every possible combination of days of the week and time of day, including holidays, across a broad spectrum of player skill levels, over a period of over three years, from CB2 through present day.
(Sidenote, why do people say "good game" after a 14/40 match that was clearly NOT a good game?)
It's a simple pleasantry, akin to handshakes after hockey/soccer matches. Most users aren't attempting to convey their thoughts on the game, just as most people aren't actually interested in your feelings when they ask, "How are you"? TBH, Hawken's the first community where I've encountered players taking the gesture poorly.
so true, gg has alwase been the goto letters to show sportsmanship even after a stomp, also many rounds i seen 40 15 ish that was dead even only they would usualy have a tech one team not the other and ends up saving the lives of mutual victims
I agree that it takes WAY too long to start another match. I don't really understand why we need 1 full minute before the next location is displayed.
Here's what I "recorded" from last night, playing 10 TDM games for about 2 hours straight and never leaving the server. All of these were matches that at the end of the match had 12 players. This is how many of those 12 players stuck around for the next match: 9, 8, 8, 7, 5, 5, 7, 6, 8, 7. Again, ALL of these matches eventually had 12 players in them, but I don't think ANY of them started with 12. As a result of this and other factors, MAYBE 3 of these 10 matches were actually close.
So yeah, 7 or 8 hanging around (65% or less) is about the best we can expect right now. And yet there's all these people looking to join matches? That's just plain weird.
Stick around people! And DEVs, PLEASE cut down the amount of time between matches.
May be getting a little off topic here :
I think custom servers might resolve some of that issue with lower wait times for the next match to begin, but quite sure a much larger player pop would be required to do this if Reloaded was in favor of adding this feature to the game.
A player would have the options to join a standard server where the wait times would be as they are for people that don't mind it (such as myself) The extra time allows for reviewing the scores, going back into the garage, farting around in chat (especially if it's a group of people that know one another) or just waiting to ready up until enough players join in to even the teams before starting......sorry, I'm just not into speed dialing through matches and don't mind the short wait.
But if servers were reserved to start custom matches, the person starting that match would/could have multiple mods to choose from, such as : times allowed between matches, match lenght, # of players on a team, map selection (of course would need many new maps) What is allowed in game (mechs, weapons, items, internals, etc...) types of match played and so on.
Now I know there are currently custom servers offered through Reloaded, but for a fee and I understand this due to the need to make money on the game. But it would be great to see a custom server made part of the game for those that don't want to follow the standard/basic game format....But to do this I'm sure it would take thousands of players on an almost daily basis (that spend cash) to work.. and of course, how realistic it would be for Reloaded to be able to do it, if in fact they would even consider this type of option ?
Bottom line on the waiting issue...I really don't have a problem with it. For me, in the long run, at times it seems to help with the balancing issues when starting matches, though it still doesn't address the player/players leaving at the end or during the match before the next one begins.
edit: later
Edited by The_Silencer, 26 March 2016 - 09:06 AM.
.
The difference between theory and practice is smaller in theory than it is in practice.
The time at the end of the matches should be only 10 seconds and more people will end up getting to the next game in the same server,. The starting time on the other hand needs to be more than 10 seconds. Currently in LA servers the 10 second start time causes unbalanced starts and the momentum from one side starting with all players and the other side 3, can upset what might otherwise be a decent match. Some maps are worse than others but all players should be starting at the same time.
You should come to Australian servers, with usually 10 people in one server out of the five, no one leaves
The time at the end of the matches should be only 10 seconds and more people will end up getting to the next game in the same server,. The starting time on the other hand needs to be more than 10 seconds. Currently in LA servers the 10 second start time causes unbalanced starts and the momentum from one side starting with all players and the other side 3, can upset what might otherwise be a decent match. Some maps are worse than others but all players should be starting at the same time.
Many times, it's cool having some time to chat or talk after a match. Thus i can't agree on your first premise.
The second one -about the extension of the start time- sounds good to me
.
The difference between theory and practice is smaller in theory than it is in practice.
From the time it reaches zero seconds or 40 kills to the time you see the next location is 80 seconds (timed it last night). Then you sit there on the matchmaker screen waiting for enough people to hit "Ready". Then you wait another 45 seconds for the match to start (although I've rarely seen shorter but I don't know why). When you die (frequently in my case) you are out of the match for at least another 10 seconds, plus the time it takes you to get back to the enemy on the map. So I estimate that, if you get full 10 minute matches, we spend at least 25% of the time NOT fighting. This just seems like way too much waiting.
Respawn needs to keep you out for a bit. Its incentive to not die. If you don't die, you get a full 10min of pew pew pew.
TL;DR - Git Gud
[/asshat]
The server rollover could be shorter though.
Forgot about this, but here's my suggestion to alleviate the issue, in addition to reducing the wait time as you have suggested.

Salvage: An Idea to Stop Leavers
Playing Oceanic the other night, the only people that left our matches were the odd out of region high-pinger.
We had a US player come visit the other night.
It was about 5am US time and he had 200+ ping but he stayed.
Good to have you visit CrockRocket ;)

Salvage: An Idea to Stop Leavers
Well, I got bored and played again two nights ago. The people dropping after each match is a serious issue that will not be resolved until the game is changed to cut this time in half. Even after a great match now less than half the players remain for the next match to start. So if I play again, I'm adopting the "If you can't beat them, join them" strategy and just dropping after every match and joining another. I tested it and, sure enough, I do get into another match in less than half the time, especially because joining a match in progress lets me skip the pre-battle wait also.
I look forward to when they shorten the wait time.
Well, I got bored and played again two nights ago. The people dropping after each match is a serious issue that will not be resolved until the game is changed to cut this time in half. Even after a great match now less than half the players remain for the next match to start. So if I play again, I'm adopting the "If you can't beat them, join them" strategy and just dropping after every match and joining another. I tested it and, sure enough, I do get into another match in less than half the time, especially because joining a match in progress lets me skip the pre-battle wait also.
I look forward to when they shorten the wait time.
I like going against the best of any game I play. Helps you in the long run n motivates u to do more. Always room for improvement not failure

FIRST OFF WHAT THE FUZZ IS A "SHILL"
Come out to American deathmatch. I roll the server over immediately after the match ends. No carousel, no leaderboard, just lobby-match-lobby-match...
Given his previous comments, I do not think he would appreciate the pace of that event's gameplay.
Given his previous comments, I do not think he would appreciate the pace of that event's gameplay.
I like going against the best of any game I play. Helps you in the long run n motivates u to do more. Always room for improvement not failure

FIRST OFF WHAT THE FUZZ IS A "SHILL"
I think harmless'll do fine. After all, I don't do half bad during those matches, and I'm not at the "upper level of play." Right? Is that a bad analogy?

Ridding the world of evil, one Berzerker at a time.
There's no harm in him trying. If he likes it and sticks with it, it'll be one of the best ways to improve rapidly. If he finds it isn't for him then he can cross that off his list of things to try.
I don't think there's a strong risk of him wandering into American TDM and coming out with PTSD.
as a gamer dad, I recommend biting off more than you can chew and getting in over your head
EOC Raider, Bolt Pred, Rev Gl Gren, EOC Infil, All the Reapers, Father, Expert in Guitar Kung Fu, and Founder of TPG Hawken
Come out to American deathmatch. I roll the server over immediately after the match ends. No carousel, no leaderboard, just lobby-match-lobby-match...
Sorry to be so ignorant, but how would I get to this server/location? Is it available all the time? Thanks.
Sorry to be so ignorant, but how would I get to this server/location? Is it available all the time? Thanks.
Sunday @9:00 EST. Look for the one that says "Trentik" Also join the Teamspeak @ ts.gameservers.com:9152. We try to keep it civil ;).
Edited by (TDM) DallasCreeper, 11 April 2016 - 10:52 AM.

Ridding the world of evil, one Berzerker at a time.
Given his previous comments, I do not think he would appreciate the pace of that event's gameplay.
If I stay in my cloaked Predator I'm usually OK (ending with K/D and damage ratios higher than 1, which is good for me). But if I pull out a mech where others can actually see me, not so much. So far though my best are Predator, Sharpshooter, Vanguard and G2 Assault, but my "best" with these is still terrible by others' standards.
If there is no wait, and as long as other players are OK with me playing, I'm happy to stay around. But when players start throwing out the insults (as happened 2 nights ago), I mute them and then I'm out. Just not worth it to me to play with such people.
If I stay in my cloaked Predator I'm usually OK (ending with K/D and damage ratios higher than 1, which is good for me). But if I pull out a mech where others can actually see me, not so much. So far though my best are Predator, Sharpshooter, Vanguard and G2 Assault, but my "best" with these is still terrible by others' standards.
If there is no wait, and as long as other players are OK with me playing, I'm happy to stay around. But when players start throwing out the insults (as happened 2 nights ago), I mute them and then I'm out. Just not worth it to me to play with such people.
There will be no insulting during AMERICAN DEATHMATCH. Not against you, at least. That fuzzy bunny Epsilon on the other hand...
Anyways, show up in the AMERICAN DEATHMATCH server at 9pm next Sunday if you like. They'll bother you in chat to join the ts, but you don't gotta. It's just advertising to let new people know its there.
But when players start throwing out the insults (as happened 2 nights ago), I mute them and then I'm out. Just not worth it to me to play with such people.
Out of curiousity, what does leaving the game accomplish when you have muted the offending player? Assuming "I'm out" means "I leave".
Out of curiousity, what does leaving the game accomplish when you have muted the offending player? Assuming "I'm out" means "I leave".
Yeah, I know that practice seems weird. But for me its the 'knowing" that I'm playing with a person who wants me to leave. It brings out bad feelings in me that I would rather suppress by just not being there. If I was on their team, I'd be thinking things like "I hope you die", not wanting to help them, etc. And if they were on the other team I'd likely spend an unhealthy amount of time only looking for ways that I could kill them as a way to say "Take that!" Basically, I don't like that aspect of my personality so I just leave. But I mute them beforehand in the hopes that I will forget their name, so that a few days later they can be saying whatever they want about me, and I'm none the wiser. And since I mute everyone who uses offensive language (by my own strict standards I mean), then I'll (theoretically at least) just assume they were an otherwise nice player who just uses some salty language.
Sorry, long answer there. Just trying to show the "method to my madness" :)
-snip-
Sorry, long answer there. Just trying to show the "method to my madness" :)
Hey, no problem. You gave enough context to satisfy my curiosity, so thank you for taking the time to type it.
Ok. Time for some fair warning about American Deathmatch: I think you are going to come across pilots with a greater level of skill than you currently possess. this will not be a problem.
Yeah, I know that practice seems weird. But for me its the 'knowing" that I'm playing with a person who wants me to leave.
there will not be a single person that is honestly participating in the event(not cheating, not toxic) that will told to leave. I started doing this back when the some of the top 10 best pilots at the time were participating in the event, and not once did I feel as if I was not welcome.
If I was on their team, I'd be thinking things like "I hope you die", not wanting to help them, etc. And if they were on the other team I'd likely spend an unhealthy amount of time only looking for ways that I could kill them as a way to say "Take that!" Basically, I don't like that aspect of my personality so I just leave.
The event on sunday is an "American style" deathmatch. radar and indicators will be turned off, and the player cap will be cranked up to 24, the map set does not include bunker or facility.
all of these things are designed to do two things effectlively:
And since I mute everyone who uses offensive language (by my own strict standards I mean), then I'll (theoretically at least) just assume they were an otherwise nice player who just uses some salty language.
I don't recall anyone using strong language in the in-game chat, but if I see strong language while you (or anyone who is offended by what is said in chat or otherwise) are present, I will take appropriate action. I have zero problems being a d-bag.
I like going against the best of any game I play. Helps you in the long run n motivates u to do more. Always room for improvement not failure

FIRST OFF WHAT THE FUZZ IS A "SHILL"
Compounding XP and HC bonuses for staying?
Stay 1 games +3% XP or HC
Stay 2 games +10% xp or HC
Stay 3 games +20%
etc
Compounding XP and HC bonuses for staying?
Stay 1 games +3% XP or HC
Stay 2 games +10% xp or HC
Stay 3 games +20%
etc
I wish I could set this up myself, cuz I'd do it in a heartbeat.
I THINK I HAVE AN IDEA FOR MAY OMN
I like going against the best of any game I play. Helps you in the long run n motivates u to do more. Always room for improvement not failure

FIRST OFF WHAT THE FUZZ IS A "SHILL"
OVER MY DEAD HAMSTER BODY!
But you're dying, so that won't be a problem.

Ridding the world of evil, one Berzerker at a time.
OVER MY DEAD HAMSTER BODY!
But you're dying, so that won't be a problem.
oh, for corn sake, you two stop derailing threads..
I like going against the best of any game I play. Helps you in the long run n motivates u to do more. Always room for improvement not failure

FIRST OFF WHAT THE FUZZ IS A "SHILL"
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