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#41
Silverfire

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If hackers are actually spending real money on the game...


And what? So? What are you trying to say because I don't think anyone gets what you're trying to say.

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#42
ATX22

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And what? So? What are you trying to say because I don't think anyone gets what you're trying to say.


I get it. :P
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#43
TheButtSatisfier

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If hackers are actually spending real money on the game...

 

Then Reloaded should take their money, ban them, and let them create another account to spend more money on.

 

If they aren't banned, then the aimbotter will have no incentive to use $ to bypass the grind to get a SS or reaper to aimbot in, and subsequently to purchase super awesome skins to adorn them with.

 

In this way, banning hackers stimulates the Hawken economy.


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#44
Garx

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there are devs? i only saw some guy posting "devs update" but no one game update 



#45
Miscellaneous

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there are devs? i only saw some guy posting "devs update" but no one game update 

 

They're general progress updates rather than game updates. The console build is being focused for now.


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#46
TheButtSatisfier

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Hold on to your butts guys, I just came up with a game changer.

 

Instead of using email addresses to create a new Hawken account, all new players should have to sign up using a valid credit card. If that account is found to be using an aimbot or hack, then in addition to the ban, it also gets charged somewhere between $50 and $300 US. If they're found to be repeat offenders, then start increasing the penalty by multiples of 3. If someone (or multiple people) submitted evidence that led to the successful identification and banning of the hacker, then they should get ~$10 worth of MC each, and their choice of a forum green text under their avatar or pilot emblem.

 

Then I can become a hacker bounty hunter. Butt the Bounty Hunter, with a reality show and everything.

 

I don't know how to get around someone just cancelling their credit card # after they've signed up for the game. Maybe Hawken charges $.01 every so often to confirm validity.

 

Every other concern regarding my suggestion is anti-patriotic and is insignificant compared to how effective and awesome my suggestion is.

 

LET FREEDOM AND THE FREE MARKET RING


Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 10 August 2016 - 10:27 AM.

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#47
HOHOHOSANTA

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Hold on to your butts guys, I just came up with a game changer.

 

Instead of using email addresses to create a new Hawken account, all new players should have to sign up using a valid credit card. If that account is found to be using an aimbot or hack, then in addition to the ban, it also gets charged somewhere between $50 and $300 US. If they're found to be repeat offenders, then start increasing the penalty by multiples of 3. If someone (or multiple people) submitted evidence that led to the successful identification and banning of the hacker, then they should get ~$10 worth of MC each, and their choice of a forum green text under their avatar or pilot emblem.

 

Then I can become a hacker bounty hunter. Butt the Bounty Hunter, with a reality show and everything.

 

I don't know how to get around someone just cancelling their credit card # after they've signed up for the game. Maybe Hawken charges $.01 every so often to confirm validity.

 

Every other concern regarding my suggestion is anti-patriotic and is insignificant compared to how effective and awesome my suggestion is.

 

LET FREEDOM AND THE FREE MARKET RING

you think someone is gonna trust reloaded with their valid credit card information number?

 

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#48
TheButtSatisfier

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you think someone is gonna trust reloaded with their valid credit card information number?

 

Every other concern regarding my suggestion is anti-patriotic and is insignificant compared to how effective and awesome my suggestion is.


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#49
harmless_kittens

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Have players provide credit card numbers to stop all the HACKERS ....

 

:)



#50
HOHOHOSANTA

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Have players provide credit card numbers to stop all the HACKERS ....

 

:)

201503_0930_fcbcg_sm.jpg



#51
ATX22

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Hold on to your butts guys, I just came up with a game changer.

Instead of using email addresses to create a new Hawken account, all new players should have to sign up using a valid credit card. If that account is found to be using an aimbot or hack, then in addition to the ban, it also gets charged somewhere between $50 and $300 US. If they're found to be repeat offenders, then start increasing the penalty by multiples of 3. If someone (or multiple people) submitted evidence that led to the successful identification and banning of the hacker, then they should get ~$10 worth of MC each, and their choice of a forum green text under their avatar or pilot emblem.

Then I can become a hacker bounty hunter. Butt the Bounty Hunter, with a reality show and everything.

I don't know how to get around someone just cancelling their credit card # after they've signed up for the game. Maybe Hawken charges $.01 every so often to confirm validity.

Every other concern regarding my suggestion is anti-patriotic and is insignificant compared to how effective and awesome my suggestion is.

LET FREEDOM AND THE FREE MARKET RING


I thought Reloaded was trying to make money off a F2P game, not to run a scam similar to those "Microsoft support" people calling to tell you that you PC has a virus... I'm sure slamming people with such charges would open them up to lawsuits as well.. Funny suggestion, but probably never gonna happen.

#52
StubbornPuppet

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Games used to come with these one-time Key Codes for online activation...


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To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#53
TheButtSatisfier

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not to run a scam similar to those "Microsoft support" people calling to tell you that you PC has a virus...

 

This makes no sense, and I won't ask you to clarify because it'll probably make even less sense


Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 10 August 2016 - 01:23 PM.

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#54
Skrubdos7

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Games used to come in cardboard boxes with a manual and no online activation. 


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#55
Garx

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They're general progress updates rather than game updates. The console build is being focused for now.

so maybe, we will get updates on 2018?



#56
ATX22

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This makes no sense, and I won't ask you to clarify because it'll probably make even less sense


No more or less sense than charging over $100 to credit cards for cheating. :P. Or any amount for that matter. I'm under the assumption your suggestion was in gest.

#57
Silverfire

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Have players provide credit card numbers to stop all the HACKERS ....

 

:)

 

and if you don't have a credit card? Too bad?


Edited by Silverfire, 10 August 2016 - 05:43 PM.

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#58
ATX22

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and if you don't have a credit card? Too bad?

 

Not going to happen.  It wouldn't even be a F2P game from that point on.  People over at Reloaded would have to be out of their collective minds to take that approach.  Reloaded would also likely have to charge some amount (more than $0.01) to recoup the merchant fees that they would incur for each transaction they'd be processing to "verify" new accounts.  What's stopping people from say, going over to Warlmart and getting a Money Card?  Or using something like a BoA ShopSafe card which generates a temporary card number with a max balance that you can set (for avoiding any asinine hundred dollar cheater's fee).

 

To top that off, take this F2P game with little to no barriers when it comes to creating an account, that can't keep more than a few hundred players interested concurrently (PC version) and throw credit card requirements into the mix.  I'm still hoping this credit card idea is all a joke, sarcasm, whatever.


Edited by ATX22, 10 August 2016 - 07:35 PM.


#59
KamikazeCommando

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Back in yee olden days the simple solution was to simply require people to use an email address ( to sign up with ) that was provided by their ISP- essentially, a 'paid-for' email address. Typically ISPs only give you one, or a small number of email addresses with your broadband account- this, combined with email verification ( I can't believe we don't have this in Hawken right now ) would prevent hackers and botters from making dozens and dozens of accounts each time they get banned. 

 

Free email addresses ( hotmail, gmail etc ) would not be accepted, so the cheats would soon run out of options and ways to make new accounts. It's not a perfect solution since some ISPs allow you to delete old email addresses in order to create new ones, but you get the idea- the hassle of it all would deter all but the most persistent of botters. 

 

Unless things work differently these days or ISPs have gone mad and allow you to have infinite email addresses? We can but try.

 

If you wanna hear something else depressing, PM me to find out which other well-known cheat has been allowed to carry on playing after a lengthy ban ( I spotted them in a server the other day, I couldn't believe they were allowed back tbh )...


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#60
coldform

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Back in yee olden days the simple solution was to simply require people to use an email address ( to sign up with ) that was provided by their ISP- essentially, a 'paid-for' email address. Typically ISPs only give you one, or a small number of email addresses with your broadband account- this, combined with email verification ( I can't believe we don't have this in Hawken right now ) would prevent hackers and botters from making dozens and dozens of accounts each time they get banned. 

 

Free email addresses ( hotmail, gmail etc ) would not be accepted, so the cheats would soon run out of options and ways to make new accounts. It's not a perfect solution since some ISPs allow you to delete old email addresses in order to create new ones, but you get the idea- the hassle of it all would deter all but the most persistent of botters. 

 

Unless things work differently these days or ISPs have gone mad and allow you to have infinite email addresses? We can but try.

 

If you wanna hear something else depressing, PM me to find out which other well-known cheat has been allowed to carry on playing after a lengthy ban ( I spotted them in a server the other day, I couldn't believe they were allowed back tbh )...

 

My ISP stopped giving out email addresses. most WISPs don't do this.


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#61
DieselCat

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I say hire Luca Brasi and have him make house calls.


Just Relax....and take life one game at a time....

Don't run to your death....walk

 

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#62
Hecatoncheires

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Hold on to your butts guys, I just came up with a game changer.

 

Instead of using email addresses to create a new Hawken account, all new players should have to sign up using a valid credit card. If that account is found to be using an aimbot or hack, then in addition to the ban, it also gets charged somewhere between $50 and $300 US. If they're found to be repeat offenders, then start increasing the penalty by multiples of 3. If someone (or multiple people) submitted evidence that led to the successful identification and banning of the hacker, then they should get ~$10 worth of MC each, and their choice of a forum green text under their avatar or pilot emblem.

 

Then I can become a hacker bounty hunter. Butt the Bounty Hunter, with a reality show and everything.

 

I don't know how to get around someone just cancelling their credit card # after they've signed up for the game. Maybe Hawken charges $.01 every so often to confirm validity.

 

Every other concern regarding my suggestion is anti-patriotic and is insignificant compared to how effective and awesome my suggestion is.

 

LET FREEDOM AND THE FREE MARKET RING

Just watch them do this to the forums instead. :laugh:

Though, if you wanted a similar effect, you might as well just make Hawken a paid game it so that you have to pay for an account. If the game your account has to be bought for $50-300 (then free thereafter) it's pretty much the same as holding that $50-300 as a guarantee that you won't be hacking. Course, non-hackers need to pay up as well in this situation, but that's collateral.

 

Edit: Even better yet, require players to sign up with their social security number, so players who make multiple accounts can be sued for fraud.

 

Edit 2: I meant paid account, not game.


Edited by Hecatoncheires, 10 August 2016 - 09:41 PM.

What the Heca-


#63
harmless_kittens

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Back to my main topic, I haven't seen a certain someone for a couple days now.  Have I just lucked out and missed him, or can we maybe take this as a positive sign?



#64
Call_Me_Ishmael

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Signs, signs, everywhere signs, breaking up the scenery, making up my mind... 

 

Do this, do that, can't you see the sign?

 

 

(pretty sure someone got slapped)


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You should call me Luna.


#65
Silverfire

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Back to my main topic, I haven't seen a certain someone for a couple days now.  Have I just lucked out and missed him, or can we maybe take this as a positive sign?

 

If the alleged player has been banned, it still should be an embarrassment on RLD's end given the obscene amount of time the player was active despite repeated in-game reports and multiple tickets regarding the player. If the player still isn't banned, well RLD's ability to deal with hackers just grows increasingly pathetic.


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#66
harmless_kittens

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I frankly don't understand the "We can't discuss moderation action against players because of privacy" argument, personally.  It all belongs to Reloaded.  I wish they could have a "Wall of Shame" and tell the whole world, publicly, which cheaters they have banned, as a warning to others.

 

I go to an "old school" auto mechanic, and behind his desk he has a section called "Our wall of shame", where he has copies of all the bad checks he has been written.

 

I guess Reloaded doesn't want to risk lawsuits or have a reputation of sharing private information though.  Incidentally, is this also how other online games handle actions against cheaters?  


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#67
coldform

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I frankly don't understand the "We can't discuss moderation action against players because of privacy" argument, personally. It all belongs to Reloaded. I wish they could have a "Wall of Shame" and tell the whole world, publicly, which cheaters they have banned, as a warning to others.

I go to an "old school" auto mechanic, and behind his desk he has a section called "Our wall of shame", where he has copies of all the bad checks he has been written.

I guess Reloaded doesn't want to risk lawsuits or have a reputation of sharing private information though. Incidentally, is this also how other online games handle actions against cheaters?


I see this everywhere, from gas stations to grocery stores. They even put their pictures right on the glass of the front door.

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czerofive-Today at 2:22 AM > got banned from playing lazertag - I used a knife to conserve ammo

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#68
KamikazeCommando

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I don't see how it's a privacy issue either- player call signs are 100% anonymous ( unless anyone uses their real name, which would be naive ), there is no reason why the devs can't say 'we investigated player X, and upon reviewing your video / screen caps, as well as server data, we agree that they were clearly in breech of ToS due to obvious 'hacking' ( target snapping, blatant wall hacking, super speed, map exploiting etc ), and have decided to ban them for X number of days / indefinitely'.

 

No one's personal info would be revealed, and we would feel far more satisfied that something has actually been done about the issue.

 

I can only hope they do introduce some kind of proper anti-cheat in the future, and in the mean time deal with reports in a more timely fashion- letting known cheats back into the game after a month is sheer lunacy and only undermines their efforts to build up the player base...


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#69
StubbornPuppet

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They first have to do something to discourage creating a new account.

 

Hey, I get it, you lose all your mechs and so forth...

 

But, the fact that there is NO email verification (so you don't even have to create a new email address, just type one and remember it), NO required training (you can completely skip the tutorial even, quite easily) and NO actual connection to Steam accounts on PC... it's just too easy and inviting for those looking to make alt accounts.  Getting banned is probably even a badge of honor for those who enjoy cheating at online games when the punishment is so pointless - it must make these cheaters laugh that they can so easily circumvent the ban and walk right back into the game to keep doing what they do.  They must feel like Enron executives.


To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#70
Hyginos

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They first have to do something to discourage creating a new account.

 

Being promptly and repeatedly banned would do that.

 

If you make it harder to make a new account, it gets harder for everyone. Better to have a robust anticheat that makes it difficult for cheaters to remain active.


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#71
_incitatus

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Be interesting if they were letting that account continue to play for a bit in order to test anti-cheat measures...  But I doubt it.



#72
StubbornPuppet

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If you make it harder to make a new account, it gets harder for everyone.

 

I can't agree with that sentiment.  Creating a new account, for new players, wouldn't have to be any harder than it is or should be.

 

1. Use a real email address, have the game send an email for verification that has to be responded to.  Every online game does at least this - Hawken is the only online game I've played which didn't bother with confirming the email addy.

 

2. Requiring new players to complete a tutorial for the basics, and then a guided "complete each objective" based tutorial for each game mode before allowing them to play it online is not only a dissuasion for alt accounts, but it is GOOD POLICY for HELPING NEW PLAYERS improve their gaming experience (and that of those who's games they join).

 

Both of those things reduce the likelihood of cheaters (and smurfs) creating multiple alt accounts AND give new players a better overall experience.


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#73
Hyginos

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I can't agree with that sentiment.  Creating a new account, for new players, wouldn't have to be any harder than it is or should be.

 

1. Use a real email address, have the game send an email for verification that has to be responded to.  Every online game does at least this - Hawken is the only online game I've played which didn't bother with confirming the email addy.

 

2. Requiring new players to complete a tutorial for the basics, and then a guided "complete each objective" based tutorial for each game mode before allowing them to play it online is not only a dissuasion for alt accounts, but it is GOOD POLICY for HELPING NEW PLAYERS improve their gaming experience (and that of those who's games they join).

 

Both of those things reduce the likelihood of cheaters (and smurfs) creating multiple alt accounts AND give new players a better overall experience.

 

You can't identify a cheating account at its creation, so the statement that making account creation harder effects everyone is necessarily correct.

 

A new valid email and a new steam account are trivial efforts, and the tutorial takes a few minutes at the most. I do think that the tutorial should be improved and pushed harder, but adding email/steam verification will do fuzzy bunny all to deter hackers/smurfs.

 

Lets see what our resident smurf master CraftyDus has to say about valid email addresses:

[13:39] <Ginoshy> Jake_Holland: do you have a valid email for all of your smurfs?
[13:39] <Jake_Holland> every one
[13:39] <Ginoshy> and how many are there?
[13:40] <Jake_Holland> many
[13:40] <Jake_Holland> not sure exactly
[13:42] <Ginoshy> ballpark?
[13:47] <Jake_Holland> I keep them in a hardbound ledger
[13:48] <Jake_Holland> its several pages

Edited by Hyginos, 11 August 2016 - 10:54 AM.

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MFW Howken

 

My post count is neat.


#74
TheButtSatisfier

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In all seriousness, a robust anti-cheating system that automatically identifies cheating while it's happening is probably the most scalable and effective way to address cheaters. Verification methods (email, ISP email, credit card) can all be faked or circumvented in some way. But looking for snaps and speed hacks - that's when the hacking can be identified in real time.

 

Now granted, automatic cheat detection comes with a host of its own issues, but it appears to be the most direct approach to addressing cheaters.

 

I also really enjoy the possibility of soft-banning a player. Someone identifed as cheating? Put them in a queue hell where they are only allowed to join certain servers populated exclusively by other identified cheaters. That may slightly delay the time it takes for a cheater to create a new account and accrue enough HC to purchase a SS / reaper.


Edited by TheButtSatisfier, 11 August 2016 - 11:36 AM.

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#75
StubbornPuppet

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I'm specifically talking about ways to make it less favorable to those who do cheat to bother creating new accounts after (if) they are banned.

 

And, when I say "required tutorials", I thought I pointed out that they should be "robust" and include "more" (as in for each game mode).  Right now, a new user can just completely blow off the worthless tutorial we have... and go straight to playing online.  But, if a user is now forced to play and replay and reply the same tutorials for the game and each game mode... before they can play it online... 

 

I know it won't stop all of them, but it does help get further towards a point where they have to start asking, "Is the juice worth the squeeze?"


Edited by StubbornPuppet, 11 August 2016 - 12:50 PM.

To be serious for a moment this is just a joke

 


#76
HOHOHOSANTA

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there main priority is to get to a game and ruin it. I doubt tutorials and what not will stand in their way, if they got time to hack and be in lobbies all day, they got time to do a tutorial to get there. everytime.



#77
KamikazeCommando

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Meanwhile, OW has ( arguably ) the best anti-cheat system in existence, preventing new accounts being made by banned players due to 'finger prints' being left on the players computer that cannot be removed without a clean installation of the OS. I'd like to see Reloaded do some kind of licensing deal there- that's how you deal with cheats, ban them on-sight & for life, not let them back in a week later and bury their heads in the sand over how easy it is to make new accounts without any verification. 


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#78
comic_sans

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On the topic of softbans:  Dork souls 2 and 3 use a softban system, but From Software also doesn't really give too many customer support options regarding bans, while ADH and RLD have a somewhat easily accessed, if not immediately apparent, ticket system.  As I understand it, softbans are just plain permanent for FromSoft.  Players also quickly pinned down the triggers for a softban and learned to avoid them, and they also figured out that you could undo a softban via steam family sharing, and while that's not applicable here because hawken has its own proprietary accounts, evading a dark souls softban, which applies to the steam account that owns the game, is far more convoluted than simply making a new account and people did it anyway.  I don't think softbans would rectify that issue.

 

I'm going to ask this question completely sincerely, and this is not bait or sarcasm:  Is there any perceivable problem with some system that autobans if a player exceeds a certain level of accuracy over time combined with detecting a large enough sample of turncap violations to have it not falsely trigger due to spotty connections?  No system will be perfect or both reliable and instant, and I think this would be suitably discouraging.


Edited by comic_sans, 11 August 2016 - 01:31 PM.

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#79
ATX22

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I'm going to ask this question completely sincerely, and this is not bait or sarcasm:  Is there any perceivable problem with some system that autobans if a player exceeds a certain level of accuracy over time combined with detecting a large enough sample of turncap violations to have it not falsely trigger due to spotty connections?  No system will be perfect or both reliable and instant, and I think this would be suitably discouraging.

 

That boils down to how much you trust Reloaded to properly code such a system.  If it works, I wouldn't have any issues with it.  If it threw false positives left and right, I would.



#80
coldform

coldform

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That boils down to how much you trust Reloaded to properly code such a system.  If it works, I wouldn't have any issues with it.  If it threw false positives left and right, I would.

Im sure that the developers are competent coders.  they will properly compartmentalize the system to allow anything that would do this to be disabled, and quickly introduce a patch.

 

I think.


I like going against the best of any game I play. Helps you in the long run n motivates u to do more. Always room for improvement not failure

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czerofive-Today at 2:22 AM > got banned from playing lazertag - I used a knife to conserve ammo

FIRST OFF WHAT THE FUZZ IS A "SHILL"





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