311 replies to this topic

[Hyginos]

Who's going to be watching? Lol If any feature could be considered a waste of time, it'd be a spectator mode.

At least opening up the VR option, there's a known install base that will be looking for software to play. And going forward more and more people will be picking up VR.

I'm not seeing a very big comp scene in Hawken outside the small bubble here. But hey, what do I know. Pipe dreams, it'd be a long shot to see anything substantial happen, and a miracle if Hawken becomes even moderately popular.

 

Small in terms of numbers, yes, but as a percentage of Hawkens regular population there is quite a good bit of comp players. Season 3 of TPG had 10 teams at 6 players minimum, which for a game with a global concurrent that hovers between 200 and 300 is pretty significant, especially considering that there is an EU population as well.

 

Some games are marketed almost entirely around their e-sports or competitive nature. Considering a spectator mode is about an order of magnitude easier to do as compared to VR I think it would be silly to dismiss it entirely just because you would like to play only casually.

[SS396]

I'm not seeing a very big comp scene in Hawken outside the small bubble here. But hey, what do I know.

 

Yes because #bubbleboyslivesmatter.

[CraftyDus]

Comp Hawken is the most viewed Hawken on VOD and streams. Your opinions are extremely marginal. There's always MWO if it's too fast for you.

[StubbornPuppet]

^What percentage of all Hawken VOD and Streams are of competitive matches?

[SS396]

And most viewed by who?  The 60 people associated and involved directly within those competitive matches?

[Amidatelion]

Oh look.

 

Drama. 

 

[Nept]

*An attempt at.

[CraftyDus]

Most hawken created content that's out there is people involved in organized play. 

This stuff is on google boys, you're the ones stuck in a bubble.

[SS396]

Oh look.

 

Drama. 

 

 

Most hawken created content that's out there is people involved in organized play. 

This stuff is on google boys, you're the ones stuck in a bubble.

 

Ok, lets google.

 

https://www.youtube....ew_count&page=1

 

How do you explain the missing competitive matches holding the top view counts?

[CraftyDus]

Ok, lets google.

 

https://www.youtube....ew_count&page=1

 

How do you explain the missing competitive matches holding the top view counts?

 

searching youtube the TOP hawken video is a tpgplayer from among the last season

 

which included

 

crockrocket

roarschak

Syn

DieselCat

CyberTormentor

cavefishes

DeeRax

Al3xaxLE

sabrehawk90

Kayla

dlg587

32w

Plazma

WillyWonka

Get Mechd

Rukinom

OmegaNull

Augmentia

Sigil

fAEth

Fenrir_117

Amidatelion

OdinTheWise

Tom_Neverwinter

Robscancer

Silverfire

TurdxSandwich

ticklemyiguana

Lanatic_Fringe

hammockman22

EliteShooter

eth0

_incitatus

Poopslinger

Solosttarian

Nepr

lo_spaghetto

Skrill

Darktim300

TheButtSatisfier

GGGanjaman

kirkgonewild

Hyginos

THETOEMASHER

M1lkshake

breadeffect

Rei

Daronicus

NeoKronos

comic_sans

Dew

3jackice

TunsofFun

Cond0m

Xployt

Draigun

Coshcost

Clusterbombman

Brigantine

Chitman

peacecraftSLD

DM30

Counterlogicman

Thirdeye

x9x8x7x

LoC_TR

Xiphos27

Merl

bkcat

7ucky

Culex

Requiem132

Nept

hestoned

Omnistone

leonhardt

Climatic

iaredave

7rip

Xacius

devotion

 

not to mention the burgeoning EU events and the less formal war wed/sunday dm stuff

 

number 3 in the search is bergwein an active eu comp player

 

Spoiler

 

TL;DR

 

you few marginal misanthrops are missing out on what's actually happening and there's no good reason for that

Edited by CraftyDus, 14 January 2016 - 01:57 PM.

[Hyginos]

This stuff is on google boys

 

I'd like to point to this. I think it is often forgotten how important this is.

 

Search "hawken" on youtube. First four results are by Merl, Krebs, Bergwein, and Soldierhobbs, in that order. All of these players are or have been involved in the clan/high tier/comp/evil-cabal community. The official Hawken channel is 6 results down.

 

I don't necessarily agree that comp footage is the most viewed, but the most (and most viewed) content is certainly put out by comp players. If you can get the people who will make content any way a tool to make better content, I don't see how it can possibly be bad.

 

EDIT: I am not a fast typist.

Edited by Hyginos, 14 January 2016 - 01:59 PM.

[Superkamikazee]

Um, the top video is actually a trailer for the game, followed by another trailer, followed by another trailer, followed by another trailer, and then a rooster teeth play through.

What am I missing here? Lol

[SS396]

 

searching youtube the TOP hawken video is a tpgplayer from among the last season

 

TL;DR

 

you few marginal misanthrops are missing out on what's actually happening and there's no good reason for that

 

 

 

Wait what?

 

When I search youtube and sort by view count (the link I provided) I am greeted with this video at 2,438,338 million views.

 

 

Can you please post the link for the video you are referencing and its view count, because I don't see it, not even on page 10, or when I filter things to videos within the last month..  Maybe theres something wrong and Youtube isn't displaying everyones searches identical and basing them off of previously viewed videos.

[Hyginos]

What am I missing here? Lol

 

Google algorithms. I get the same results crafty does.

 

Anyone with a fresh IP want to give it a shot?

[StubbornPuppet]

Yeah, YouTube, being owned by Google, is just like Google - the search results vary by user.  Every person who searches is going to get a result that is tailored to what Google's algorithms think will please them most.

[Amidatelion]

Fresh IP from a work VM:

 

[SS396]

Well, either way we are able to compare direct numbers no matter if Youtube filters our results for us.

1. HAWKEN - Official Gameplay (Work in Progress)  2,438,203 views
2. HAWKEN - Official Trailer (Work in Progress) 1,012,432 views
3. Hawken Exclusive E3 2012 Trailer [HD]  985,102 views
4. Hawken Web Series Trailer [EXCLUSIVE HD] -- Series begins 2013  965,025 views
5. Let's Play - Hawken  752,703 views
6. ROBO-NANNERS vs ROBO-HUTCHY (Hawken)  560,113 views
7. Get Hawken Early!!! (free game)129,284 views
    

So from what I gather content creators such as Rooster Teeth, SeaNanners, TotalBiscuit, and even WoodysGamertag have all created content with hundreds of thousands of more views than anyone affiliated with the comp scene of Hawken, Crafty can you provide some evidence to disprove this?

[SS396]

Fresh IP from a work VM:

 

Now click filter and sort by view count.

[CraftyDus]

Seriously dude, what have you done for hawken lately ever, while just in the last season of TPG 40-ish some odd matches not including playoffs happened each of which was recorded by a dozen participants.

That's a lot of content.

All while Priority target got into the air and streamed their matches as well as all the weekly community event participant streams and montages.

While you make a singular paranoid spectacle of how none of it matters.

If you like Hawken, then it occurs to me that you have to really really try when it comes to ignoring this stuff.

Makes no sense to me. Must be very lonely.

That's how I feel.

[ATX22]

Now click filter and sort by view count.

 

I think this is what's going on, the most relevant(filter option) videos show up in the order posted by crafty for me, but if I go by the view count, this list consists of ancient trailers and other old Hawken videos.

Edited by ATX22, 14 January 2016 - 03:39 PM.

[SS396]

Seriously dude, what have you done for hawken lately ever, while just in the last season of TPG 40-ish some odd matches not including playoffs happened each of which was recorded by a dozen participants.
That's a lot of content.

First off, it doesn't matter what you think I've never done for Hawken ever, because you refuse to acknowledge anything I've done and only narrowly focus on what you want too. I've helped thousands of players over the years by offering my own volunteer technical support, on both this forum and the old forums, and even on steam. I created many technical documents that the old Devs used to use on their old zendesk support area to help people, I was personally thanked many times by players and by old Devs like ZamboniChaos and Charlie for the volunteer work I did. I have even been thanked by Josh and Tiggs. But thats ok, you will never acknowledge any of that cause getting all emotional and attacking me on what you think I've never done for the game makes your argument stronger right?

Please add up all the numbers of all the views of every one of those recorded TPG matches in question. What are the numbers we are talking about here? And also what have those comp matches done for Hawken? Do they attract new players to the game or are they just streamed to the internet to sit and for nobody to watch? At any time you can explain to me how the competitive scene matters to anyone else but the people directly involved with that competitive scene.

All while Priority target got into the air and streamed their matches as well as all the weekly community event participant streams and montages.

Again who was watching these live or even after the fact? New players or people already interested in Hawken??

While you make a singular paranoid spectacle of how none of it matters.

Its not a spectacle, its a counter argument.

If you like Hawken, then it occurs to me that you have to really really try when it comes to ignoring this stuff.
Makes no sense to me. Must be very lonely.
That's how I feel.

Hahahaha. What does this have to do with the blanket statement you made?
 

Comp Hawken is the most viewed Hawken on VOD and streams. Your opinions are extremely marginal. There's always MWO if it's too fast for you.

Maybe its time you just admit you were wrong?

Cause dang dude, I wasn't even trying to get under your skin.

[Superkamikazee]

Seriously dude, what have you done for hawken lately ever, while just in the last season of TPG 40-ish some odd matches not including playoffs happened each of which was recorded by a dozen participants.
That's a lot of content.
All while Priority target got into the air and streamed their matches as well as all the weekly community event participant streams and montages.
While you make a singular paranoid spectacle of how none of it matters.
If you like Hawken, then it occurs to me that you have to really really try when it comes to ignoring this stuff.
Makes no sense to me. Must be very lonely.
That's how I feel.

Not to sound like a jerk but what has that content done for Hawken, like seriously? I think it's cool you guys are having fun with the league play, and streaming all that, but none, I repeat, none of that has helped Hawken. Player retention is abysmal, and it has been for as long as I can remember. Player growth is non existent.

Dev involvement, new content, and a miracle like pewdiepie doing a let's play can help Hawken. Maybe a Kotaku article might do something. Yeah.

[CraftyDus]

comp hawken has helped keep this game alive way beyond its natural death. thats what comp gaming does, sorry you missed it

Edited by CraftyDus, 14 January 2016 - 03:56 PM.

[SS396]

comp hawken has helped keep this game alive way beyond its natural death. thats what comp gaming does, sorry you missed it

60 people being forced to return to play scheduled matches kept the entire game alive? Can you please go into greater detail on how that actually kept Hawken alive? Also, whats keeping Hawken alive now that there are no competitive matches?

[DM30]

Not to sound like a jerk but what has that content done for Hawken, like seriously? I think it's cool you guys are having fun with the league play, and streaming all that, but none, I repeat, none of that has helped Hawken. Player retention is abysmal, and it has been for as long as I can remember. Player growth is non existent.

Dev involvement, new content, and a miracle like pewdiepie doing a let's play can help Hawken. Maybe a Kotaku article might do something. Yeah.

I'm pretty sure that without organized league play and events like War Wednesday, a LOT more players would have left the game during the many, many months where development was nonexistent. Saying that those events did nothing for the game is just slightly over-exaggerated.

[SS396]

I'm pretty sure that without organized league play and events like War Wednesday, a LOT more players would have left the game during the many, many months where development was nonexistent. Saying that those events did nothing for the game is just slightly over-exaggerated.

But isn't saying that competitive Hawken kept Hawken alive just as over-exaggerated? I mean really we are talking about ~60 people here.

https://steamdb.info.../271290/graphs/

Filter the "Players in last year" graph by 1 year, and you see all the events listed, how did that keep anything alive? The only thing that rejuvenated life into Hawken and brought back players was the news of Reloaded buying the IP. But in reality we are almost at the same levels as the months before Reloaded bought Hawken during its worst time.

[Silverfire]

What somebody has done does not change who that person is.

[SS396]

What somebody has done does not change who that person is.

 

I dunno, maybe not but it sure as fuzzy bunny gets you labeled from that point forward.  Josh told me a long time ago that it would take me at least 6 weeks of posting for people to even begin to change the way their minds are wired, and thats if I could remain perfect the entire time and not reaggravate the old trauma that they revert focus on.

[Superkamikazee]

comp hawken has helped keep this game alive way beyond its natural death. thats what comp gaming does, sorry you missed it

I think it's kept the spirit of the game alive, but actually saved it from complete abandonment? The other 240 players online at any given time may disagree with that.

I'm not trying to knock the league play, but let's be realistic here, a little credit sure, but the way you're making it sound. Pfffffft.

Edited by Superkamikazee, 14 January 2016 - 06:37 PM.

[Dawn_of_Ash]

What has kept Hawken alive is that it is a good game and we all love it. A subset of this love is TPG and events - events that the community has created and not the devs. Regardless, TPG only allows high-tier people to still play the game and not the majority of the population.

 

From my point of view, TPG has nothing to do with me still playing. I just like the game. It's the reason I go to US servers and get 350+ ping with my glitchy graphics card and still play. As DM said, TPG has only really retained the people who play in/with the people. I also watch a bit of TPG and I can assure you that currently it's not all that entertaining to watch especially if you don't know what's happening so TPG is not really attracting new people either. The only reason I really watch TPG is because one of my friends play in it.

 

 

Oh look.

 

Drama. 

 

Drama IS what's keeping this forum alive.

[CraftyDus]

 Regardless, TPG only allows high-tier people to still play the game and not the majority of the population.

 

I don't know who told you that, but they were wrong. That has never been true.

[Dawn_of_Ash]

I don't know who told you that, but they were wrong. That has never been true.

 

Less of being told, more being seen. TPG is like a gathering place of really good teams and players from my point of view. Unless the B-team idea has gone through? From what I've seen its a competition between good players including some of the top MMR people in the world. Maybe it wasn't the intention, but from what I see, there is only one competition and it has really good people playing it in every single team. I don't see how TPG retains new players unless people are currently creating teams?

 

Plus, what I mean by "high-tier" is people who are truly invested into the game like many people on these forums. Unless you meant that TPG is the majority of the population?

 

But could you tell me what you mean about it never being true? As I said, I'm running off information that I'm seeing on the forums and on the few videos I watch of it. I admit, I never really double checked TPG stuff because I know it'll never affect me. 

Edited by Dawn_of_Ash, 14 January 2016 - 09:09 PM.

[CraftyDus]

I mean what you are saying is not true and hasn't been true once in 14 years if TPG.
There are new teams comprised of new players every season since 2002 in every game they host.
Including the last 3 of Hawken.
All Skill Levels Have Always Enjoyed Being Welcome There.

[SS396]

I think it's kept the spirit of the game alive, but actually saved it from complete abandonment? The other 240 players online at any given time may disagree with that.

 
^^ this, so much of this.
 
It kept some players interest alive and kept a reason for 60 people to continue playing, I'll give him that point, but keeping the entire game alive, no fuzzy bunnyng way in hell.  60 people in their own little group doing their own thing on private servers did nothing for the general public of Hawken, but maybe keep the general public's games evenly balanced during that time the high tiers were occupied with each other.  Kappa
 
 
Now Crafty, You started this debate with your posts, and I quickly finished it using the very same tools you told everyone to use.  Now address the following so we can move forward and put this to rest.
 

Comp Hawken is the most viewed Hawken on VOD and streams. Your opinions are extremely marginal. There's always MWO if it's too fast for you.

 

Most hawken created content that's out there is people involved in organized play. 
This stuff is on google boys, you're the ones stuck in a bubble.

 
I've proven that ALL of your blanket statements above are completely false.  
 
The number one VOD that is most viewed about Hawken is infact a trailer by Adhesive games themselves currently at 2,438,364 million views. 

Spoiler

 In fact the next few slots that take up those most viewed positions are also trailers.  Then they become "lets plays" by substantial youtube content creators that had built up a steady subscriber following and decided to create some content based on the game when it was relatively new.  Thus exposing great numbers of people to Hawken, which directly increased their number of views.

 

This can easily be determined by filtering Youtube results for Hawken by "view count".  I can see in the screenshot you posted, you are not sorting by "view count".  Can you explain the reasoning behind not sorting by view count when trying to prove a screenshot defending viewcount?
 
2.4 million is a few million above Merls 30,000 views which you are claiming is the most.  Do you not agree?  And out of all the 60 people you listed, I'll accept that maybe only one has a single video with a maximum of ~30,000 views, unless you can find me one that has more than Merls, which I'll allow you to replace willingly at any time.   Why, because it isn't going to come anywhere close to 2.4 fuzzy bunnyng million views which would negate my counter argument against yours, thats why.  Theres no way I can possibly lose this.  Thats why I'm standing here grinning from ear to ear like this.
 

I mean really your original argument was that "actual recorded competitive gameplay was the most viewed VOD and streams", and then when that quickly failed you scrambled and switched it to "well, Youtube says one of the players that is associated with comp play has a video that has nothing to do with comp play, but it has the most views".  

 

Also most of the Hawken related content out there on Youtube and Twitch also is not associated with anyone involved with organized play, its just thousands of normal people recording their own play for video montages, or lets plays or just plain fun.  Again we can use the tools provided by Youtube to sort by upload date and look at who posted what as recently as a 1 hour ago to one week ago.  Out of the 3 pages of videos I quickly skimmed over I see maybe 2 or 3 by people that I personally recognize could be remotely associated with an actual known player name in game or here on the forums.

 

ArM0rEdKloWn HAWKEN

Cosine Hyperbolic

Lauren Emily
 

None of these are listed in your list of the definitive 60 players directly involved with comp play.  Now I could of missed someone if their Youtube username wasn't easily cross referenced or similar between Youtube and Hawken.  And I apologize if I did, but still 1 or 2 videos out of pages does not satisfy your statement that "most of the content is by people involved with comp play" again.  Do you disagree?  Most of the videos aren't even from players that even visit the forums on a regular basis.

 

Crafty, I just love how you are telling me to google fuzzy bunny cause I am a fuzzy bunnyng misanthropic moron, and when I do and show it to you, it doesn't match your altered reality view and then you completely ignore it, and act like it never happened.

 

Just man up, poke your head out of your bubble and admit you are wrong, not once but twice (in reality 3 times).  God forbid you or any of your buddies would actually say I'm right about anything for once, I can see how they don't seem to be jumping on your bandwagon here defending you for some reason.  I wonder why that is, maybe they don't want to get involved for some unknown reason.  Hey wheres Buttsatisfier's post now that states I post only misinformation about Hawken.  I guess he's got an addendum to create.

 

Oh and anytime you want to acknowledge the volunteer work I've done for Hawken in the tech support areas of 3 forums, I'm willing to hear your apology and acknowledge the credit.  I certainly don't see many of your 60 definitive comp players contributing by volunteering to help others out by posting in that area very frequently.  Just sayin.

 

Edit: Spacing

Edited by SS396, 14 January 2016 - 09:50 PM.

[Dawn_of_Ash]

I mean what you are saying is not true and hasn't been true once in 14 years if TPG.
There are new teams comprised of new players every season since 2002 in every game they host.
Including the last 3 of Hawken.
All Skill Levels Have Always Enjoyed Being Welcome There.

 

Ah, so you're talking about TPG in general.

 

Well, I get the feeling you knew that I was talking about Hawken TPG so I don't understand why you would act like so. Sorry if I annoyed you...

 

But whatever. I thought this was going to be a serious conversation. :(

[Silverfire]

I was part of the TPG team The B Team, got regularly fuzzy bunny on by the upper tiers. We still played. Ask folks from the TDM clan. They didn't win a single game all season. At that time, they were not fantastically great players. Average, not to be offesnvie or anything. Didn't stop them from doing competitive Hawken.

[crockrocket]

Regardless, TPG only allows high-tier people to still play the game and not the majority of the population.

 

 

Drama IS what's keeping this forum alive.

 

Lol you've kicked my ass a time or two on american servers, while dueling. High-tier my ass. I mean TDM is the largest clan in Hawken right now, and over half of us are scrubs. 

 

 

 

However, you are 100% correct on that last point. 

[crockrocket]

I was part of the TPG team The B Team, got regularly fuzzy bunny on by the upper tiers. We still played. Ask folks from the TDM clan. They didn't win a single game all season. At that time, they were not fantastically great players. Average, not to be offesnvie or anything. Didn't stop them from doing competitive Hawken.

 

You know what the best part is though? When coldform and I co-founded the clan (also the 3v3 tourneys are 100% responsible for TDM's existence), I had the highest mmr, for a while too. Soon after I watched deerax, cavefishes, roarschak, and syn come into their own as pilots, and quickly surpass or equal cold and I. And we've been doing the samw thing ever since.

[ticklemyiguana]

What is this all about? What's been keeping Hawken alive?

Money. Obviously. Servers run on dollars.

Competitive Hawken hasn't paid the bills - I mean, we did a year or so ago before content was never released again, and even then only to a small extent, many of us have basically everything in the game and then some HC and MC to spare.

 

What's keeping Hawken alive? It's the prospective dollars in people's pockets a year or so from now. What's keeping Hawken alive is nothing but a bet, a gamble, a hope. Let's not get all ahead of ourselves with this "Comp scene keeps the lights on" thing.

 

I mean, really. If you were to bet on Hawken, would you? It never had proper optimization, it has a low playerbase that contributes rather insubstantial levels of money to the game, its previous developers actually went bankrupt and dissolved. Like, why bet on Hawken?

 

But the thing is, someone did. Someone's putting money into the game.

 

I can only speculate as to the reasons, but what if in addition to all the negatives listed, Hawken was also unloved? I mean, that'd just be the nail in the casket, wouldn't it? How do we, how does anyone know that Hawken is capable of being cherished, that despite all that, there's actually a chance, of if not a full financial 180 into AAA glory, a chance of sustaining a profit, living another day and making the best of that day?

 

It's not the ads of the old developers. They were neat. They probably even got some good attention from the people that needed to attend to Hawken. But on arrival, Reloaded, being at that point Josh and Tiggs, were enthralled with the community. They were struck by how much we cared for the game, and hoped to multiply that affection just a bit.

 

So what's keeping the lights on? Well, all of us, to some degree, but I'd wager that if we were to break it down, the people who care most about the game, the people who've inspired someone to start putting money into the game, I think you know who, as an abstract and rather fluid group, who I would bet on.

 

 

 

Me. Obviously.

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 15 January 2016 - 02:27 AM.

[HOHOHOSANTA]

I believe the game was good back then but overall the community is what makes the game. Of course overtime everything improves such as gameplay. Playstyles and graphics. It is true that back then teams worked better together but you have to think we were all pretty new still and learning. Some people left some stayed so now the mix of players we have is unbalanced