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Upcoming Balance Changes


Upcoming Balance Changes

Hey everyone, [HWK]Vanashinkaku here!

With Ascension, we created some really awesome systems. We've watched a lot of people play and we've collected a ton of data on how people have been building their mechs. We've taken this data and have been iterating on those designs based on how we've seen them effect gameplay.

We've talked before about the removal of vertical progression from Mech Progression and the re-balance to Pilot Progression. These things were critical in order for us to create the most balanced game we can. By removing Tuning Points, we are now able to deliver an extremely strong mech not just to a high level player, but to a new player as well. One of the biggest weaknesses of the old system was that new players were punished for having a weaker mech than someone who was max level and max mech rank. This new system puts a much larger emphasis on the skill of the player, rather than time played and optimal upgrades.

One question we've seen asked multiple times on the forums is: "Why not just give us all 30 points at the beginning_" We explored that option and here's why we ended up deciding against it.

  • In order to make the points meaningful, we have to make the effects pretty large. This makes balancing mechs very difficult when trying to take all tuning variations into account. This also makes it difficult for players to identify what a mech is capable of when spotted on the battlefield.

  • People often come up with what can be perceived as “Optimal Builds” for each class. Mostly everyone who keeps track will follow that same build and people who build differently may perform worse because of it. By removing tuning points, we can define the role of each mech and players will be able to have a much more balanced experience.

  • We want people to enjoy the game and be able to jump straight in and have fun. For that reason, people often forget to use their points. This becomes more apparent when players have many mechs in their garage. When this happens, they are basically penalized for not using them or for forgetting.

Another change we have been wanting to make is in regards to the current Time-To-Kill (TTK). TTK has been a hot topic of conversation for a long time and something we've been adjusting internally. We eventually came to the conclusion that engagements lasted far too long and for the most part felt extremely unrewarding. We believe the main reason for this was our large health pools.

When battling another player 1-on-1, we agree that maneuvering and dancing around is fun. However, the longer this lasts the more opportunity there is for another player to come and affect the outcome of the fight. This doesn't feel rewarding for either players involved in the 1-on-1 because it prevents them from having any closure for their duel.

Another disadvantage of high health is that it minimizes the importance of strategic placement, flanking and smart decision making. It's a disappointing experience when you attempt to outsmart your competition only to have the enemy simply escape due to his high health.

Before I go into the numbers behind the new TTK balance, let's take a look at "Effective Health."

The Effective Health of a mech is its potential health given through other means outside of armor itself. There are many things that contribute to your Effective Health, including movement speed, dodging, abilities etc. We've all faced a powerful Scout Pilot who is able to clean up an entire team and then run away without breaking a sweat. This is because their high mobility more than makes up for their lack of armor, giving them an Effective Health that is extremely high.

This issue also leads to balance problems. Light mechs are supposed to be glass cannons, but with their high Effective Health there really isn't anything "glass" about them. Not only are they the fastest mechs in the game, they can also be granted far too much armor using Tuning Points.

This is why we see a lot of Light mechs being played in the current version of HAWKEN, more so than most other classes in the game. We really want to see more high-level play involving Medium and Heavy class mechs while still keeping Light mechs as a viable option in competitive combat. In order to accomplish this, we have significantly lowered the Time-To-Kill in HAWKEN.

So what does lowering the Time-To-Kill mean_  Well, here are a few bullet points!

  • Mech Armor Heavily Reduced
  • Sustain Damage Increased
  • Burst Damage Re-Balanced
  • Heat Generation Lowered Overall

Essentially, the faster a mech is and/or the more potential burst damage output it has, the less armor the mech will have! With these new balance changes, one mistake can easily destroy that dominating Scout pilot without them getting more than a few shots off. Positioning, timing and map awareness will be far more valuable in this new environment and we look forward to seeing how combat will develop and evolve.

So, without further ado, here's our collection of statistics for the upcoming patch. Enjoy!

 

Mech Statistics

Weapon Statistics

Item Statistics




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177 Comments

Greetings fellow pilots...

Not sure what the bounds of my NDA are (it was never really written on paper), but I'd like to say a couple things about the upcoming balance changes.  Keep in mind, these are coming from the perspective of a high-tier player.  

I was at one of the testing sessions that ADH hosted in the beginning of January.  

Feedback on the new TTK:
Spoiler

Movement speed reduction:
Spoiler

for Van: What do the "Air Speed" numbers indicate_  Is that a m/s value or something different_  Can you translate it to grounded m/s for comparison_
It begins.
Get your popcorn .gifs ready.
NUMBERS! :D

I feel like this is going to throw me for a serious loop once the update hits, but here's hoping that when the dust settles it'll be a much more solid game.
B3-AR, SAARE launcher and HEAT MINE, you say..

Preternatural
Feb 03 2014 05:53 PM

View Post[HWK]Vanashinkaku, on February 03 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

In order to accomplish this, we have significantly lowered the Time-To-Kill in HAWKEN.


So what does lowering the Time-To-Kill mean_  Well, here are a few bullet points!
  • Mech Armor Heavily Reduced
  • Sustain Damage Increased
  • Burst Damage Re-Balanced
  • Heat Generation Lowered Overall
Oh Dear God, did Hawken just turn itself into yet another twitch FPS_ Dammit, one of the things I like best about Hawken is its TTK...

I really, really hope [HWK] realizes that this is a bad move.
The next mech: incinerator!

Glad to see the berserker and reaper being the two toughest A's.

The rocketeer only flies as well as the sharpshooter... that's interesting.

EternalAnnihilator
Feb 03 2014 05:57 PM
OOOOOooooh:D new mech:D
Posted Image

Preternatural
Feb 03 2014 06:06 PM
Did anyone else notice that the B3-AR names are PPA, BBY, and M4MA, which could  mean Papa, Baby, and Mama.
Posted Image
It doesn't look like there are any adjustments to the range on the flak type weapons. Also alpha strike A class kills are now possible. Not really crazy about either of those things, or the logic relating to the effect of TTK. I just straight up think the latter is wrong. But I guess this is a pretty clear message about which players ADH hopes to retain and which it can afford to lose.

View PostPreternatural, on February 03 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

View Post[HWK]Vanashinkaku, on February 03 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

In order to accomplish this, we have significantly lowered the Time-To-Kill in HAWKEN.


So what does lowering the Time-To-Kill mean_  Well, here are a few bullet points!
  • Mech Armor Heavily Reduced
  • Sustain Damage Increased
  • Burst Damage Re-Balanced
  • Heat Generation Lowered Overall
Oh Dear God, did Hawken just turn itself into yet another twitch FPS_ Dammit, one of the things I like best about Hawken is its TTK...

I really, really hope [HWK] realizes that this is a bad move.
Read the chart:
http://i.imgur.com/M07djoF.png
Even with armor "heavily reduced", heavies still have between 635 and 750 armor, and weapons loader tuning won't be available for that extra +10% damage.  Also, dodging won't consume fuel anymore, meaning you can probably avoid a lot of it.

Hijinks_The_Turtle
Feb 03 2014 06:12 PM
PWHOA!!!  What the heck is the Heat Mine_  I think I've fallen in love with another mech!  Also, there seems to be a new secondary weapon:  The SAARE Launcher!  It has a NEGATIVE heat gen of 15/30!  Anyone else find it interesting that this new 'Incinerator' Mech is very close to the speed at which Vanguard can move_
Its bout time we catually get numbers.

Kind of dumb to put them in a .png file if you ask me. Having them in a spreadsheet would allow the community easier access to getting the info they require.

also thanks for the info on the new incinerator class, item and weapons.

I'll take my time to analise all this in details but at quick glance i'm looking forward to the return of the heatscout meta.
I have a feeling a lot of people are gonna start using b and c classes after the patch.

https://docs.google....Y1E&usp=sharing

CookieTheory
Feb 03 2014 06:15 PM
You know what would make this patch even more awesome_
Releasing the Incinerator as well...just saying.

Hijinks_The_Turtle
Feb 03 2014 06:19 PM
Waaaaiiiitt a minute... I still find it odd that the C classes still don't have much fuel compared to the rest of the classes.

View Postshosca, on February 03 2014 - 06:14 PM, said:

I have a feeling a lot of people are gonna start using b and c classes after the patch.
We'll probably see fewer A's used as front line battle mechs.  The lower health opens up new flanking opportunities though, as you should be able to gun someone down pretty quickly if they aren't dodging.  People will either adapt their playstyles or switch to something heavier.
The devs are looking to make light mechs actually glass cannoning instead of dodging machines that really have more health than anyone due t movement_

TIME TO RAVE.

Posted Image


Also are abilities getting changes as well devs_ I would imagine such a sift in health pools would call for turret mode changes bruiser changes... well a ton of changes actually. Considering how those are based on percentages... Actually I am sure we will get more answers on this with the full patch notes.
*gets to C-class stats*
Brawler... ok, good, beefy
Grenadier... good good
Incinerator... lightly beefy, ok
Rock... wait a minute... INCINERATOR

DennisKnightPC
Feb 03 2014 06:24 PM
I haven't checked all the weapons but the B3-AR: PPA (whatever that is) looks like the new highest DPS weapon at a whopping 132dps.  Don't know why that specifically interested me so much, this is all quite exciting though.

DennisKnightPC
Feb 03 2014 06:29 PM
Also, there is a typo on the Corsair-KLA, it certainly will not do 1056 damage with a single burst!

View Posth0B0, on February 03 2014 - 06:14 PM, said:

Its bout time we catually get numbers.

Kind of dumb to put them in a .png file if you ask me. Having them in a spreadsheet would allow the community easier access to getting the info they require.

also thanks for the info on the new incinerator class, item and weapons.

I'll take my time to analise all this in details but at quick glance i'm looking forward to the return of the heatscout meta.

They finally give us numbers prepatch, and you complain.  Dude, seriously, chill on the negative (this is from me, the most negative guy ever)

Thanks for the info Vana, good luck with downtime, and deployment.  I am going to go over these numbers and reserve judgement until after I play, a metric f ton.

View PostGreenvalv, on February 03 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

*gets to C-class stats*
Brawler... ok, good, beefy
Grenadier... good good
Incinerator... lightly beefy, ok
Rock... wait a minute...

Shush, Rocketeers can fly.




One thing I want to remind folks, with tunings in the hands of the devs, these numbers can be (and should be) reviewed after data collection, AND community feedback.  Balance is not something that will just magically occur, and going forward it is even moreso important that we, as tester/players should give the devs good, constructive, and well mannered feedback about things.
I haven't done all the math but i'm sure that the majority of weapon combination alpha's can almost instantly kill any of the a classes.

A class will see more time in the garage then most people's C classes *ba dum tishhhhhhhhh*

[HWK]ZamboniChaos
Feb 03 2014 06:34 PM

View Posth0B0, on February 03 2014 - 06:14 PM, said:

Its bout time we catually get numbers.

Kind of dumb to put them in a .png file if you ask me. Having them in a spreadsheet would allow the community easier access to getting the info they require.

I agree this would be better for the long term, but I'm a one man army and I had to go with the most effective and time efficient solution in order to get this info out to everyone today. :)

View Postburns1124, on February 03 2014 - 06:30 PM, said:

View PostGreenvalv, on February 03 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

*gets to C-class stats*
Brawler... ok, good, beefy
Grenadier... good good
Incinerator... lightly beefy, ok
Rock... wait a minute...

Shush, Rocketeers can fly.
You missed my meaning, I fixed it