4 replies to this topic

[Akrium]

With this new beta comes the first push towards making the vertical level climb towards a horizontal climb. And has it succeeded_ I'd have to say no.. but this is the first step towards making it better.

The problem is in the long term goal of income from the game and the bonuses they are giving out via their vanguard promo. Boosters are going to be in the game, and they are really looking to hopefully cash in here in the long hall along w/ unique bling bling for us to buy.

This makes leveling a requirement. And because of that we have to navigate a horribly laid out tree system and choose worthless mod upgrades that don't do much at all anymore just so we are not over powering those that do not have them. This is causing a LOT of things in the game into meaningless choices.

It is almost better to only choose the upgrades that give zero negatives simply because the bonuses don't add up to anything even worth while taking. does 3% dmg over all add up_ Mathematically yes if you look at over all damage over time. But this game isn't about long drawn out fights... it's about small units of armor and quick damage.

Lets look at it vs a C class mech w/ 900 stock armor.
If you use the 3% bonus to all dmg that means he only has 873 armor now (900 - (900 x 0.03)). This is also assuming that the dmg is actually done in decimals and not just whole numbers w/ rounding down. Because if there is rounding going on half of these boosts are worthless because your bullets don't hit hard enough to add even 1 dmg to the gun per bullet. Unless it is rounding up.. but then that makes the second point into some tree worthless.

So the smg does 10 dmg per bullet... that means that 3% boost is worth a grand total of 3 successful smg shots on the c-class mech. That takes a total of a fraction of a second to do w/out any negative at all.

These "new" changes are just so harsh that any concept of actually making yourself some sorta hybrid build is a joke. Your choices don't add up to much of anything and you don't sacrifice much either to gain the nothing. Making each person feel they are some different style of mech but in reality they are just the stock mech. So ultimately why should we make these choices and spend possible mp (aka real money) on them_

Answer is... we shouldn't be.

How to fix this.

Drop xp... simply drop this component and consider increasing the amount of meteor points it requires to purchase hawken point boosts. Which if you look long term is going to be the only boost that people consider using. Once everyone has a level 20 of everything the xp boost is going to be dead. Yes some new players will consider doing it, but not until they feel the game is worth it. And if they got some horrible grind to do to get to the fun aspect of twinking out their guy.. they won't do it. Then this game will have no audience except some hardcore players.

What does this accomplish:

The ability to give full tree bonuses right at the start. This allows us all to be on equal grounds right away. This can make the trees far more interesting for game play and allow us to really start to diversify our builds. This will really help push fun game play as it allows people to really experiment and get to build a mech to their own play style or role on the field. Give us choices that are actually worth while to take. Amp up the tree so we have mech changing choices. This will allow you to stream line the trees as well. Currently it just feels like a lot of it was thrown together to just fill spots so you can feel like there is a reason to make us level up.

This will really allow more interesting game play and not me just fighting another scout or assault. This is me fighting a scout that went offensive and is just tearing me up when I don't watch my back, but who I blow to kingdom come when I see him coming. This turns that slow brawler into the speed of a B-Class mech and he can catch up to you much quicker than you thought and he is pounding your face. (side note: slightly more top speed difference between mechs would be nice I can do a different post on this and as to why).

Now with the ability to really make the tree section powerful the internals can be combined into the tree sections now. You can then make the internals something new, like more player hud changes. Or the bobble head mech on your dash. Or even clan symbols on your mech inside and out. These can all add income over the internals as they stand and allow you to still make money. And this will keep people FAR more interested in the game than some Korean mmo grind(not stereotyping.  American/EU players want end game, Korean want grinding.. just kinda how it is w/ rpg game markets). Players that love grinding should not be your audience for a fast paced fps.

Summary:

Internals and tree bonuses are too low. Drop xp/internals and instead combo internals and tree into worthwhile choices and give them to us right away. This will promote better game play and make the game FAR more interesting. Instead of showing player mech level on scoreboard you can show player ranking or skill level based on your match making stats. You can gain income in other places to counter the loss of xp and internals.

[WarPig]

/agree and signed.

[defekt]

It now feels like CB3 is merely a snapshot in time mid-way through a system-wide metamorphosis; it is currently neither an insatiable grub nor is it yet a graceful winged critter.  If that is the case then it is small wonder that CB3 feels so- ungainly.  The Open Beta will probably be our first glimpse of the winged beastie that Hawken is destined to transform into.  Some folks are going to be disappointed, and I might be one of them, but others will be delighted; it's up to us whether or not we are able to adjust our expectations to suit or go and play something else.  (It is free after all!)

As interesting a read as your post is, Akrium, it's way too late in the day to make such fundamental alterations.  (Incidentally, I agree with your idea that revolves around the reallocation of a finite set of resources, the same set of resources that all players possess, regardless of level.  Experience comes in being able to move more of those resources around as you see fit.  I suggested something very similar in CA2, CB1 and CB2.  That said, a horizontal progression system that contains fixed items that enable you to shuffle said resource around does pretty much the same thing, and a taster of that approach we now see in CB3.)  Changes are in the pipeline and until we see them, be that in-game or through an announcement post in here, we should probably sit tight and stop trying to reshape a world that we're not fully privy to yet.

[Akrium]

Oh i'm aware this is just the first step. As I stated with the opening sentence in my wall of text.

But is it something they can overhaul yet_ Yes... they have already stated themselves that they are an independent small company that doesn't have to answer to some greater company shoving dates down their throats. So if it is something that could make the game a better lasting game, they can still work it around. And to be honest.. it isn't that big of a change over what they are thinking about with some things already. And I know that not until maybe a week into open beta will we really start to know what full direction they plan on going. I just hope that this was the first step and something like what I mentioned is heading down the pipeline.

If you want to keep xp around, just have it unlock cosmetics. It will validate those that have put tons of time in and also not give anyone ANY advantage they don't really need.

TF2 does not have a tree system because it is built into their weapons and classes. Thus they go with the negatives on their gear to compensate for no tree. Think of it this way.. if we could only pick 1 tree to go down, we would be losing out on the others. So it would be like a green txt for the tree and a red txt for not getting either of the other trees. Our gear does not need negatives on it because we are already getting negatives by not being able to have the entire tree at our disposal.

CoD unlocking weapons as you lvl is junk. It makes balancing things much harder than it needs to be. Getting perks for said weapons by the longer you use them.. not so junk. But they all need balanced. What hawken is doing so far is they are giving flat out bonuses that stack. Luckily they are not huge bonuses so it isn't too crazy. So it works. But it is not based on using the weapon, it's based on your level. So yet again, the level mechanic we are running into is causing a lot of issues. The leveling aspect is from the rpg side of things. Most people don't play rpgs to just level. The leveling aspect is never fun. We just do it because we want to get to the fun.. which is having everything at the end. Yes it promotes certain business models but those models are changing. Blizzards next mmo will not be pay per month. And with the trend right now for horizontal leveling.. it probably will head down that road too. Blizzard is very good at stealing really good ideas and putting it into their games. They are not innovators, they are engineers.

Many game companies have lost sight of making games fun. With the crappy economy in the states, and the way just the gaming industry has been over the last decade+, there has been a sever lack of game making with the idea being.. it's about having fun. They cannot take chances or they will go bankrupt. This is also attributed to online game reviews. So we get the same fuzzy bunny over and over and over with a graphics update. Why_ It's safe... and we buy it. bleh... This is why I like hawken, the devs seem really cool about wanting it their way and making a fun game.

I just want a meta game to this game. The skill tree highly promotes it. And meta games help a game last longer w/ diversity.

[WarPig]

leveling system in itself is stupid and really ruined the FPS gaming market in general...I don't mind it personally but when ppl care more about gaining a level to have an advantage rather than invest time in learning to play better and work as a team I get sad..............