36 replies to this topic

[PlagueDoctor]

[ADH]Saunders, on November 27 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

This is a cool idea.

We've updated the vulkan internally (not to the above haha), but it should feel a lot better now.  I hope to roll out that change (and a bunch of other weapon changes) to you guys later this week after we do a bit more playtesting

Yay! I'll be sure to play a bunch and give more thoughts on it.

E: If you end up using that idea make sure to give me some credit

Edited by PlagueDoctor, November 27 2012 - 02:08 PM.

[Karaipantsu]

[ADH]Saunders, on November 27 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

later this week

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

[ADH]Saunders, on November 27 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

PlagueDoctor, on November 23 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

The first solution I brainstormed was, with scaling heat, effective damage range increases. At no heat, damage range is the same, within the yellow bracket of heat, damage range is increased by some amount, (25%_) and in the red bracket of heat, the damage range is increased further. (50%_ 75%_)

This is a cool idea.

We've updated the vulkan internally (not to the above haha), but it should feel a lot better now.  I hope to roll out that change (and a bunch of other weapon changes) to you guys later this week after we do a bit more playtesting

Thank FSM for that.
Now here's to hoping you guys fix the Sharpshooter as well, because i really miss being able to play it and having fun playing at the same time.

[Karaipantsu]

New Vulcan stats in tonite's patch.  Not good news, sadly.  Looks like the SMC is going to live on my Bruiser's arm from now on.

[Lithium03]

Karaipantsu, on November 27 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

New Vulcan stats in tonite's patch.  Not good news, sadly.  Looks like the SMC is going to live on my Bruiser's arm from now on.

Care to elaborate_ I got the patch today and the stats are the same as they were since the 21st. Hopefully this new patch actually reflects the heat tooltip.

[PlagueDoctor]

Yeah, tested after the patch, still OH in 6-7 seconds

[Karaipantsu]

Yes, that.  It's unchanged.  But this wasn't the "midweek" patch the devs were talking about in another thread.  It was something put out to fix a serious "text crashing servers" bug, and I'd imagine they tacked on whatever else was ready for test while they were at it.

[Akrium]

Lithium03, on November 25 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

It actually has the 3rd highest dps behind mini flak and regular flak, all of which are best at close range. The heat it produces now is basically too much, it's why they tried to buff it, but for some reason it didn't take. The point of improving the heat was to allow it to dps for long enough to be useful. With regards to repair, the base rate is 35 + 15 internal +9(3 points in defense tree) = 59/second at best, the Vulcan still does 40 dps over that plus your special weapon, which due to having a stationary target is an easy 216 damage. Assuming you're not trying to snipe with the vulcan, it can still be effective, they just need to fix that heat issue.

Understand those dps charts you are looking at are possible dps. Not true dps...

True dps is effected by accuracy, range, and LoS. The accuracy on the Vulcan is like standing 5 feet from a Barn and firing at it, at some point you will hit the roof while aiming at the side. I laugh knowing how badly people are overheating trying to hit me at range with it now. It's effective range is almost point blank. I have zero fear of this weapon as an A-Class now.. which is sad. It used to be my most feared weapon in enemy hands.

[PlagueDoctor]

Basically, yeah, that^


There is also the issue of damage fall off (which I addressed in my first suggestion)

Its easy to tell the flaks' fall off because they stop doing damage past an easy to see point. Vulcan doesn't have that luxury. There is no visual feedback as to where the weapon is most effective.

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

Karaipantsu, on November 27 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

New Vulcan stats in tonite's patch.  Not good news, sadly.  Looks like the SMC is going to live on my Bruiser's arm from now on.

Nothing was changed yet, so what are you on about _

[Lithium03]

Akrium, on November 28 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

Lithium03, on November 25 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

It actually has the 3rd highest dps behind mini flak and regular flak, all of which are best at close range. The heat it produces now is basically too much, it's why they tried to buff it, but for some reason it didn't take. The point of improving the heat was to allow it to dps for long enough to be useful. With regards to repair, the base rate is 35 + 15 internal +9(3 points in defense tree) = 59/second at best, the Vulcan still does 40 dps over that plus your special weapon, which due to having a stationary target is an easy 216 damage. Assuming you're not trying to snipe with the vulcan, it can still be effective, they just need to fix that heat issue.

Understand those dps charts you are looking at are possible dps. Not true dps...

True dps is effected by accuracy, range, and LoS. The accuracy on the Vulcan is like standing 5 feet from a Barn and firing at it, at some point you will hit the roof while aiming at the side. I laugh knowing how badly people are overheating trying to hit me at range with it now. It's effective range is almost point blank. I have zero fear of this weapon as an A-Class now.. which is sad. It used to be my most feared weapon in enemy hands.

It does have a quick accuracy drop off compared to others', but at a close 20-30m it's still top 5/6. And I do have an accuracy chart, one affected by range too.

[PlagueDoctor]

Lithium03, on November 28 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

It does have a quick accuracy drop off compared to others', but at a close 20-30m it's still top 5/6. And I do have an accuracy chart, one affected by range too.

Close range, assuming you hit every bullet, assuming they aren't moving at all. Every factor favors the Flaks over the Vulcan. Especially spin up time. You can't dash, shoot, dash, shoot like you can on the As with a flak.

Edited by PlagueDoctor, November 28 2012 - 07:26 PM.

[c0mpl3x1ty]

PlagueDoctor, on November 28 2012 - 07:26 PM, said:

Lithium03, on November 28 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

It does have a quick accuracy drop off compared to others', but at a close 20-30m it's still top 5/6. And I do have an accuracy chart, one affected by range too.

Close range, assuming you hit every bullet, assuming they aren't moving at all. Every factor favors the Flaks over the Vulcan. Especially spin up time. You can't dash, shoot, dash, shoot like you can on the As with a flak.

You have to look at the bigger picture, though. Speaking from a Bruiser's perspective, that's not the role you play. My "dash-shoot" is the hellfire, and usually when they get low enough I just run at them with the vulcan to finish.

Opening with the vulcan, currently, is just suicide BECAUSE of the OH. Hellfire costs like no heat, and if they run at you, just pop defensive+vulcan and they'll figure out pretty quick they're going to be in a tight spot. Point is, it's not supposed to fill the role the flak plays.

Edited by c0mpl3x1ty, November 28 2012 - 10:03 PM.

[PlagueDoctor]

c0mpl3x1ty, on November 28 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

You have to look at the bigger picture, though. Speaking from a Bruiser's perspective, that's not the role you play. My "dash-shoot" is the hellfire, and usually when they get low enough I just run at them with the vulcan to finish.

Opening with the vulcan, currently, is just suicide BECAUSE of the OH. Hellfire costs like no heat, and if they run at you, just pop defensive+vulcan and they'll figure out pretty quick they're going to be in a tight spot. Point is, it's not supposed to fill the role the flak plays.

The problem with stopping to chase someone is that if they're good at getting away (an A class for example) Is that you have to, 1) stop dashing, 2) spin up (its a small time, but time nonetheless) and, 3) fire at them. The Vulcan has pitiful ranged damage, and when someone is running away, that damage quickly diminishes to just about nothing. If they somehow manage to not dash away, you're still at the mercy of the ridiculous heat generation.

Yes. It can work. The problem is that 75% of the time I try to pull something like this, I overheat, and they just turn and kill me.

[AsianJoyKiller]

PlagueDoctor, on November 28 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

Yes. It can work. The problem is that 75% of the time I try to pull something like this, I overheat, and they just turn and kill me.

:3

[c0mpl3x1ty]

PlagueDoctor, on November 28 2012 - 10:29 PM, said:

c0mpl3x1ty, on November 28 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

You have to look at the bigger picture, though. Speaking from a Bruiser's perspective, that's not the role you play. My "dash-shoot" is the hellfire, and usually when they get low enough I just run at them with the vulcan to finish.

Opening with the vulcan, currently, is just suicide BECAUSE of the OH. Hellfire costs like no heat, and if they run at you, just pop defensive+vulcan and they'll figure out pretty quick they're going to be in a tight spot. Point is, it's not supposed to fill the role the flak plays.

The problem with stopping to chase someone is that if they're good at getting away (an A class for example) Is that you have to, 1) stop dashing, 2) spin up (its a small time, but time nonetheless) and, 3) fire at them. The Vulcan has pitiful ranged damage, and when someone is running away, that damage quickly diminishes to just about nothing. If they somehow manage to not dash away, you're still at the mercy of the ridiculous heat generation.

Yes. It can work. The problem is that 75% of the time I try to pull something like this, I overheat, and they just turn and kill me.

Once again, if you're using the vulcan as a ranged weapon you're wasting your time. The ones that get away will get away, and don't even get me started on mechanics for when you decide to chase or dive as a bruiser with a vulcan. Basically, you soften them up with hellfire, play cat and mouse a bit, then turn around and nuke them with a vulcan. I find that 9 times out of 10 if I catch the enemy and see him before he sees me, I can easily win an engagement. Most of the time if the enemy hits me first with his TOW or slug rifle, I have to run away, regroup, and try again.

The big fault with vulcan is that it's very much a 1 on 1 sort of gun that is situational in team games because you really do just blow everything on the vulcan. You either kill them, or overheat and end up dead if you overcommit to a fight. Personally, I like managing the heat, working around buildings, and looking to catch people on the back foot.

Lastly, I'm not saying you're wrong in the OP or that 75% of chases end with suicide, because they do. I really liked the suggestion on damage scaling with weapon heat, it's definitely an interesting idea. Vulcan definitely has problems with OH, and if it's adjusted just a teeny bit, it'll probably be great.

[PlagueDoctor]

c0mpl3x1ty, on November 28 2012 - 11:05 PM, said:

please stop quoting everything

It is a 1v1 gun yes, but I also like the idea of it being used for area denial (damage range scaling with heat) so if you manage your heat correctly, It BECOMES a ranged weapon. Personally, I believe the damage fall off is too short of a range. I would use a mini-flak if I wanted a short range high damage weapon. (sometimes I get fed up with the Vulcan and switch to my scout)