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Praise - Hawken's movement and dodge


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#1 wat

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Posted December 01 2012 - 06:55 AM

I've lurked the forums for several weeks and I never saw much discussion on dodging or movement, even though I think it's one of best successes in Hawken so far.  Shift+S to spin 180' is perfect.  I use it constantly.  It's amazingly useful.  If I have a fast mech that can do some good burst damage, like Scout or Infiltrator, and my health is low, I'll beat a hasty retreat, and if I'm getting followed, i'll wait til i get some distance, do a quick spin, pop off a single grenade and immediately spin again and basically continue the retreat without losing much ground.  So, so nice.  I haven't really seen many other players do this when I've been hunting down damaged mechs.

It's also particularly great for C-classes in that same situation - I could retreat with S while facing the enemy, but I know i'm going to take way more damage than I can give, especially when outnumbered and low on health - but if I sprint away, I might be able to find some help from teammates and survive.  Better yet, with 180' spin I can pop off some burst damage without sacrificing much ground, and by the time I reach my teammates they can deliver the finishing blows, and inevitably I'll have more health than I would have had if I had retreated in a more blunt way.  In other words, a little skill can be rewarded.  I can't say enough good things about 180' spin.

Ultimately, I think that the pace of basic walking, the speed/distance of dodge, its recharge, the 180' spin ability, the general concept of dodging in short, straight lines on a grid, the rate/height of jump fuel all work together in a magnificently flexible way.  I always feel "free" and capable, especially in A class mechs, but even in hulking C class mechs - the balance of weight/armor/mobility is very finely tuned already, even before the open beta; it's really awesome how good it is in its current state and it can probably still get better.  The maps perfectly compliment it too - Sahara/bazaar's little nooks (often used for repairs) are just the right size to dodge into and out of even when i'm not looking at them; the general size and features of the maps are ripe for careful, chess-like, grid-based positioning.  The game feels fluid - you can move all over the place, and if you have good awareness you can turn a clunky mech into something graceful that can jump backwards and float onto a platform and get control over an enemy in a clever way, for instance.  It's amazing that it manages to feel both intuitive and strategic; fun and rational at the same time.  Quake and Unreal Tournament are the only shooters I can really think of that had similar fast, hopping styles of play, but those are still very different from hawken obviously.

Dodge recharge is also pretty damn in sync with most of the burst weapon recharges - TOW and GL can pop off one shot, enemy can dodge it, and if their timing is careful, they can exactly dodge the next volley; I've had great A class 1v1's where neither of us can even land a shot on the other because we're each being so precise about our dodging.  So fun.  Careful timing can also dodge every shot of a SABOT, even though it's hitscan - if you're just conscious of weapon reload times, you can work magic.  It's beautiful.

Likewise, if you watch an enemy carefully and learn the precise distance his dodge takes him, you can predict where he will be and use the dodge recharge time as a window of opportunity to shoot him - fast enemies are most vulnerable immediately after finishing a dodge.  My point is, the game lays out all the mechanics in front of you, and if you learn to be keenly attuned to them, you can win with wits instead of brute force.

That said, I know that dodge like this has been a staple of lots of japanese mech games, but I haven't really played much Front Mission or Armored Core, and I haven't enjoyed what I have played too much - I think that implementing it in a straight-up MP FPS is unique and fits the mold perfectly.  Bravo devs.  Plenty of room for improvement in the game with things like upgrades/sidegrades, but most game mechanics are just straight-up good even in this early stage.  I really hope you guys get lots of positive attention after release.

Woo go Hawken!

Edited by wat, December 01 2012 - 08:05 AM.


#2 Ecdysis

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Posted December 01 2012 - 10:22 AM

I must agree.
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#3 AsianJoyKiller

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Posted December 01 2012 - 10:56 AM

What the Hell_
You're not complaining about constantly getting confused by the 180 spin and say that it's the games fault_
You're not whining that this is just CoD with mechs or it doesn't mimic Armored Core enough_
This frightens and confuses me.

Just to be clear, I like your post, and I'm just mocking all the people who would rather compare Hawken's movement to their preconceptions and not look at based on it own merits.

[HWK]HUGHES, on July 03 2013 - 11:07 PM, said:

AJK is right

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#4 dirty0harry

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Posted December 01 2012 - 12:03 PM

lol me like your post AJK! :)

#5 Culex

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Posted December 01 2012 - 12:19 PM

View Postwat, on December 01 2012 - 06:55 AM, said:

Careful timing can also dodge every shot of a SABOT, even though it's hitscan - if you're just conscious of weapon reload times, you can work magic.  It's beautiful.

Not hitscan. Although I wish it was (the way it was in CBE2).

Also the collision on certain parts of the terrain such as pipes sticking out is a nuisance but will be probably be remedied. Also the map bind is very lacking but I have received confirmation it will be worked on at or for open beta. Other than that, well said.

Edited by Culex, December 01 2012 - 12:20 PM.

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#6 NIGHTRAV3N

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Posted December 02 2012 - 01:06 AM

AJK speaks the truth haha. My first time really using an A mech since A2, and I enjoy every bit of Infil(except EOC). I always tend to stick to FPS that have great movement like UT, QL, and WSW.

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#7 BeefC4ke

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Posted December 02 2012 - 11:38 PM

I prefer the way it was in earlier versions of the game but it's still pretty good as far as having a mix between perceived weight and mobility.
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#8 OverWolf

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Posted December 02 2012 - 11:59 PM

View PostAsianJoyKiller, on December 01 2012 - 10:56 AM, said:

What the Hell_
You're not complaining about constantly getting confused by the 180 spin and say that it's the games fault_
You're not whining that this is just CoD with mechs or it doesn't mimic Armored Core enough_
This frightens and confuses me.

Just to be clear, I like your post, and I'm just mocking all the people who would rather compare Hawken's movement to their preconceptions and not look at based on it own merits.

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#9 NIGHTRAV3N

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Posted December 03 2012 - 01:05 AM

Pre-CBEs the movement was probably at it's best, but then again there wasn't so much detail being pushed at the time either. Nice, clean, and responsive-- the way I like it.

"God is not on the side of battalions, but on the side that shoots best"


#10 ConsterMonster

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Posted December 03 2012 - 06:19 AM

I have to agree the movement is great - I find myself trying to spin in other games like this now!

IMO, nothing beats boosting away with really low health till u reach a corner, doing a quick spin, firing off tow launcher (or other secondary/HEAT/FLAK/EOC i havent had enough time for anything other than berzerker this beta) as u dodge behind corner and getting kill after ur safe

#11 The_Silencer

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Posted December 03 2012 - 10:17 AM

Hmm..

1.- I'd suggest the UI playing a wave-sound for when you're trying dodge whilst you still have no fuel enough. That would adress many bad interpretations on certain issues with movement and its fluidity*.

2.- Definitely (and once more..) an air 180º turn is a must.

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#12 ItsThatGuy

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Posted December 03 2012 - 10:28 AM

It's nice to see positive posts. Such is the nature of anything online where people only take the time and effort to say something negative and so perspectives are easily skewed. 12-12-12 is approaching and i think they're in a good position

#13 c0mad0r

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Posted December 03 2012 - 12:11 PM

View PostBeefC4ke, on December 02 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

I prefer the way it was in earlier versions of the game but it's still pretty good as far as having a mix between perceived weight and mobility.

Realize that pre-CBT we had mechs with what would now be considered god-like stats and optimisations. Yes, I liked it too, but it was a bit too much overall as the Berserker was just capable of lightening fuzzy bunny speeds.

I do agree though, mech movement is great for the most part... *grumbles C-Class Seige Mode... Fuzzy Bunnies*
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#14 wat

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Posted December 04 2012 - 06:54 AM

View PostThe_Silencer, on December 03 2012 - 10:17 AM, said:

Hmm..

1.- I'd suggest the UI playing a wave-sound for when you're trying dodge whilst you still have no fuel enough. That would adress many bad interpretations on certain issues with movement and its fluidity*.

2.- Definitely (and once more..) an air 180º turn is a must.

These are both awesome ideas.  I think more audio feedback in general would be nice (for instance, louder sounds indicating you're getting hit by bullets).  180° turn in air sounds brilliant, would totally love that.  I can't imagine how its inclusion would be OP either - seems like a simple programming fix imo, since the animation on ground is nice as is, and would be the same in air.

#15 Cpt_Kill_Jack

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Posted December 04 2012 - 08:28 AM

The 180 thing does bother me but the jerking of the cockpit does even more than the 180 spin. Im a gamer that likes good visuals.  What I dont like is effects like the blue fuss that shows up here and there or the jerking of the cockpit. Its a game and these things mess up with the play and combat because it makes you think that your lagging and your not. I like High fps and crisp visuals. The cockpit lag just messes with your aim and your mind. Some people like the effect but other who are competitive will not. The game is also currently capped at 90 fps and my GPU can do more.

#16 DM30

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Posted December 05 2012 - 10:35 AM

View Postwat, on December 04 2012 - 06:54 AM, said:

I think more audio feedback in general would be nice (for instance, louder sounds indicating you're getting hit by bullets).

This. Please this. I've gotten used to it enough to glance at my health every time a red wedge appears to try and see how bad the hit was, but more noticeable impact sounds would be great. I've noticed plenty of times during a retreat that my health will be slowly dropping from an SMC, but I hear NOTHING. More than just being helpful from a gameplay perspective, it would also be good for the feeling of the game, because right now the lack of jarring impact sounds takes away a lot from the feeling of power of the guns, IMO.

As for the OP's sentiments, I agree. I like the overall feeling of movement in this game. Pretty good pace to it, and for the most part it does feel like I'm driving a big, hulking mech (especially on landings after large falls when I forget to use the jets--I almost wince at the giant crash). So many people complain about the movement style, but I agree, I think that's just them not liking the fact that it's different than other games that they're used to, and not taking the time to appreciate it FOR its difference.

#17 Xenophontis

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Posted December 06 2012 - 03:42 PM

I never understood people who complained about "movement' issues. This game was always incredibly easy to maneuver.

#18 BuDeKai

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Posted December 07 2012 - 07:40 AM

View Postwat, on December 01 2012 - 06:55 AM, said:

Shift+S to spin 180' is perfect.  I use it constantly.  It's amazingly useful.  

this is too hilarious how much this contrast to about 80 percent of the threads archived from alpha-cb2

well said tho man, i couldn't agree more.

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