39 replies to this topic

[JackDandy]

According to the trailers, right now the only way to gain life back is to shut your mech down for a while- you'll drop off the radar and be very vulnerable to attacks during that time, so you need to hide well before doing so.

It's a good system and a worthy replacement for the current "hide 5 seconds behind a car" system in most FPS games.

But still, I think it wouldn't make much sense for the mech to be fully repaired by it.

Some dedicated repair bays spread around the level would be the best, in my opinion. What do you think_

[KellAset]

I agree with second option, I was thinking about it just like that, self repair at best should repair our mech to like 50% but to repair to 100% repair bay is needed.

[SixSeconds]

I think repair bays and medpaks kill the dynamism of a lot of maps; they railroad players into certain areas, creating predictable hotzones. Far Cry 2 pulled off the "find spot, use slow regen button" very well for multiplayer, and it worked, so I don't know why it wouldn't work here. The only problem I can see with it is a sniper duel; if someone isn't crippled immediately, they'll just retreat and regen, forcing the other sniper to close the distance.

Could be cool if sniper rifles were left hand weapons, actually.

[innociv]

I like how Bloodline Champions does it where you can only heal to 40% above your remaining life lost above the lowest point you've been.

If you lose 50% health, you can get up to 70%.  If you get down to 10% you can back up to 46%.

With maybe having your defense stat improving the max you can recover.


It makes sense that your on-board repair wouldn't be able to fully repair you.
It'd also be nice if a dedicated repair point that could heal you up to 100% would exist even on neutral maps(So you know where weak people are headed)

[SixSeconds]

The repair limit is great, and I'd be behind it if there was some way to make it work without repair bays; I'm really quite against anything that forces predictability onto a player. Maybe if downed mechs could be salvaged for repair nanobots to repair permalost health, or some other such flavour_

[innociv]

I just figured auto regen when out of battle.

Salvaging from bodies sounds good(great, even.  That way you're more encouraged to kill people than run and try to hide behind something), it's just that buttons are limited since they want to bring this to consoles.

[SixSeconds]

They're going to have a shutdown feature where you exit the mech anyways, so they could piggyback the salvage onto that mechanic.

[innociv]

I'm more leaning toward autorepair now that I think about it, just after you haven't received damage for a while.

It can be sensibly quick, as long as it's capped and you aren't healing to 100%.  5 or so seconds out of combat to go from 90% to 94%, 50% to 70%, 5% to 46% all sounds reasonable to me.

Repair bays repair speed should be comparable to respawn time, not super quick, either.  It's annoying to be attacking and being going in and out of health regen.  Sucks that you can 1v2 two defenders, except now when one is popping in for a quick repair after nearly killing him while you're then killing the other.

Repair bays should also not protect you, so you aren't safe popping in one at 5% health.

[SixSeconds]

innociv said:

Sucks that you can 1v2 two defenders, except now when one is popping in for a quick repair after nearly killing him while you're then killing the other.

Not quite sure what you're going for here; you want to deemphasize cooperation_

Right now, I'm seeing people treat repair bays as a necessary evil if we want to have any sort of permanent damage. Which really, really sucks. I can't see a single thing about them that's a good reason for their existence apart from "Well, how else are you going to recover_", and any good team is just going to camp a repair bay forever. Even if there are preventative measures, repair bays are still going to be artificial hotspots of action, which kills strategic depth.

So long as there's some way to repair, not necessarily to full, I think it'll be balanced; just-can we try to think outside of the bay_

[xXxTALONxXx]

innociv said:

I like how Bloodline Champions does it where you can only heal to 40% above your remaining life lost above the lowest point you've been.

If you lose 50% health, you can get up to 70%.  If you get down to 10% you can back up to 46%.

With maybe having your defense stat improving the max you can recover.


It makes sense that your on-board repair wouldn't be able to fully repair you.

NO
It'd also be nice if a dedicated repair point that could heal you up to 100% would exist even on neutral maps(So you know where weak people are headed)

SixSeconds said:

They're going to have a shutdown feature where you exit the mech anyways, so they could piggyback the salvage onto that mechanic.

You kill then you get health... =  skill and no campers or cherry pickers who timed everything  out

However you take more punishment then most FPS even more then we've seen so far

[innociv]

1)aKillArmy said:

innociv said:

I like how Bloodline Champions does it where you can only heal to 40% above your remaining life lost above the lowest point you've been.

If you lose 50% health, you can get up to 70%.  If you get down to 10% you can back up to 46%.

With maybe having your defense stat improving the max you can recover.


It makes sense that your on-board repair wouldn't be able to fully repair you.

NO

Wait, hang on.

All you said is "NO" in caps; not really (or at all) an argument.

Didn't the devs already said there definitively WILL be some health regen_  The question is how it'd work.

SixSeconds said:

innociv said:

Sucks that you can 1v2 two defenders, except now when one is popping in for a quick repair after nearly killing him while you're then killing the other.

Not quite sure what you're going for here; you want to deemphasize cooperation_

Right now, I'm seeing people treat repair bays as a necessary evil if we want to have any sort of permanent damage. Which really, really sucks. I can't see a single thing about them that's a good reason for their existence apart from "Well, how else are you going to recover_", and any good team is just going to camp a repair bay forever. Even if there are preventative measures, repair bays are still going to be artificial hotspots of action, which kills strategic depth.

So long as there's some way to repair, not necessarily to full, I think it'll be balanced; just-can we try to think outside of the bay_

No.
I'm saying you COULD kill 2 people yourself who are defending their base, because you're more skilled than them, but then you're unable to because they're hopping back in and out of repair areas if they repair too quickly.
This happens in other games with similar mechanics.  It's pretty annoying.


I definitely agree with your last point, repair bays aren't a necessity.  You could die and respawn if you want full health.  Getting to 100% health without dying isn't a necessity.
I think simply having a auto-repair anywhere like the health regen in CoD, shields in Halo, but that doesn't bring you to full HP is fine enough.

1)aKillArmy said:

SixSeconds said:

They're going to have a shutdown feature where you exit the mech anyways, so they could piggyback the salvage onto that mechanic.

You kill then you get health... =  skill and no campers or cherry pickers who timed everything  out

However you take more punishment then most FPS even more then we've seen so far

Can only the person that kills salvage_  That'd look funny, it doesn't make sense.
It'd be silly if you automatically gain a bunch of health just from killing someone without getting close, too.

I mean, I like the idea because of the "Kill someone and then you can get some repair" aspect, definitely.  It's just all the little nuisances that break it apart..

[KellAset]

innociv said:

I'm saying you COULD kill 2 people yourself who are defending their base, because you're more skilled than them, but then you're unable to because they're hopping back in and out of repair areas if they repair too quickly.
This happens in other games with similar mechanics.  It's pretty annoying.

With repair how it is currently you probably can expect all that what you just mentioned to happen anyway since you can repair yourself fully quite fast anywhere anytime without anyone's help, you just need to watch to not get shot at during self repairs  :roll: .

Repair bays(capturable_) are ok and should be placed near spawn points perhaps but I wouldn't mind to see instead_ of repair bays some item that we could put on our mech during customization like repair backpack so that players could repair others with it(not themselves), that small thing would strengthen teamplay aspect :!: .
Players even while in repair bay should not be untouchable perhaps.

Btw. getting repaired because of kills eh really no offence but that is so so awful idea to me  :_ .

[Provi]

The only current advantage I see to repair bays is speed, but it also takes time to get to them...
so this is a possible solution they could add.

[SixSeconds]

innociv said:

No.
I'm saying you COULD kill 2 people yourself who are defending their base, because you're more skilled than them, but then you're unable to because they're hopping back in and out of repair areas if they repair too quickly.
This happens in other games with similar mechanics.  It's pretty annoying.

Ah, I thought you were referring to a situation where you're in combat with one person, then another enters the action and supresses you, creating some breathing room for the initial combatant to heal, which is the sort of cooperation I'd like to see rewarded. Agree that your example would be so aggravating.

innociv said:

Can only the person that kills salvage_  That'd look funny, it doesn't make sense.
It'd be silly if you automatically gain a bunch of health just from killing someone without getting close, too.

I mean, I like the idea because of the "Kill someone and then you can get some repair" aspect, definitely.  It's just all the little nuisances that break it apart..

Let anyone salvage a wreck. It's a mass of materials; it doesn't get a say in who consumes it. Of course, this makes it harder for snipers to heal, but it lets them indirectly support frontline fighters by leaving wrecks for them. The mechanic isn't just a reward for killing someone, it's an incentive not to get hit; the risk of having to shut down in the open (deaths should also emit a large radar blip to friendlies, making this riskier) is a penalty for taking damage.

Now, there needs to be a slight incentive to help out a teammate instead of letting them die, then killing the enemy that they were fighting and salvaging them both. Maybe some way to split the salvage 80/80 or an XP bonus, if they're doing that sort of thing_

[innociv]

Kell Aset said:

innociv said:

I'm saying you COULD kill 2 people yourself who are defending their base, because you're more skilled than them, but then you're unable to because they're hopping back in and out of repair areas if they repair too quickly.
This happens in other games with similar mechanics.  It's pretty annoying.

With repair how it is currently you probably can expect all that what you just mentioned to happen anyway since you can repair yourself fully quite fast anywhere anytime without anyone's help, you just need to watch to not get shot at during self repairs  :roll: .

The difference is that shooting someone presumably interrupts their auto-repair, while if there were repair bays it probably wouldn't.

That's why I prefer there just being the auto-repair like health/shield regain in other games, but at a cap since Hawken health pools are larger.

[KellAset]

Since nothing is final yet innociv You can always suggest as I did in my previous post to make players not untouchable while they are using repair bays.
I would imagine repair bay as a mobile field repair bay on a truck, that would also explain why those repair bays are present somewhere on the battlefield.

Btw. notice how fast light mech can repair( go to 1.52, repair takes 5-6 seconds   );
http://www.g4tv.com/... ... ideo-52755

I personally would like to get rid of all this self repair entirely, think there was already said that ammo will be unlimited(can't remember if for all weapons).
I am bit worried that Hawken is slowly going into lone wolf direction    since players don't have to worry about ammo or repair and don't have to depend on someone or something else much.

[innociv]

They certainly shouldn't be untouchable in them.  That should be set in stone, if they exist.

I was just also saying that even if they can be killed while repairing, if it's too fast you could still have some annoyingness of people juggling in and out of them when defending.



I really don't see what the big deal about respawning is, for the most part.

[The_Silencer]

One of more players should be able to fire all together at one player who is regenerating via shut down. So that player can be killed as he is regenerating his mech, IMO.

[Barcode1]

It's fine the way it is. It'd be nice to have to go through the shutdown animation (in reverse) on startup as well, though.

[innociv]

I think the shutdown thing is a bit silly.


Why not just have yourself repair while fuel is at 100% and you aren't being shot_

That why you can still move, but you can't outrun someone since you can't use fuel.  With that, it's not using up a button for it and such.