17 replies to this topic

[hestoned]

Im sure a lot of people would agree that the problem with SS wasn't how the bullets traveled. It was how much damage those bullets did. Well as some one who played Sharpshooter exclusively i can attest to that.
It did need a slight damage nerf and it got one. What i want to know is why Sabot and slug are projectile weapons now.

For those who don't know what hitscan is, it means instant contact with your target. Lets say i'm using the assault rifle. Even if your all the way on the other side of the map, as long as my cross-hair is on my target my bullets are going to make contact the instant I hit my mouse key. This isn't the case with the Sabot or slug rifle on Sharpshooter. Since they are projectile now i have to lead my target. This is done by putting my cross-hair in front of my target, depending on which direction they go and timing the bullet hit. Same as you would with a TOW rocket.

Why is that every other bullet based weapon in this game requires no leading but the two guns that, in theory, should have the fastest travel time require me to shoot ahead of my target_

[AsianJoyKiller]

Honestly, I don't feel that SS really needed any sort of nerf.

[h0B0]

SS scares me even in their current form.
I have seen AJK Plague and CaptainSoviet do well with it, and as an a class i lose half my health in 1 burst scary.

[Interrobang]

h0B0, on December 05 2012 - 08:47 PM, said:

SS scares me even in their current form.
I have seen AJK Plague and CaptainSoviet do well with it, and as an a class i lose half my health in 1 burst scary.

The SS isn't what scares you, it's Plague and CaptainSoviet that do. Just because they are very skilled players doesn't mean the class is op. I hope they return the SS to pre-CB3, the nerf was completely unnecessary.

[Karaipantsu]

The only thing I don't like about SS in this patch is how they relegated it to a support role with the reduction in move speed and the hamfisted nerf on the Slug and Sabot.  If the SS could still fire accurately with at least one weapon out of zoom mode, it would still be a force, but as is, it's best backing up a team of front line murder machines.  In smaller matches of 2 or 3, it's just a target.

[DarkPulse]

I could see the slight damage nerf although it certainly wasn't necessary as the SS was already the lowest DPS class in the game. The movement nerf was a bit bogus but I can live with that. The SA Hawkins needed a boost, but it probably got boosted way too much, but that's another tale entirely.

But moving Slug and Sabot off of hitscan basically killed any kind of fun I could have with this class.

It made it, literally, a chore to play and it was no longer fun at all. Fast moving target_ Hahaha, better be the god of prediction to hit that A-Class, Lieutenant Hawkeye. Even if you can compensate, you'd better be standing perfectly still or else you'll be missing your shot by several meters. Oh yes, and zoom in, too, because now hip-fire is absolutely useless as it will only hit about one out of every three times, unless the guy is so close he's air-conditioning your face with Mr. Flak Cannon. And don't even get me started on that RNG that seems to make shots go exactly where you don't want them to.

Until this is changed, realistically, I just don't see myself playing a SS anymore except for situationally. I got it up to Level 20 twice, once in CB1 and then again in CB2 when it lost ~3 levels due to the new leveling curve. What's my Sharpshooter's current level_

SEVEN! And it ain't from lack of trying! I'm certainly playing it no differently than I had been in any other beta, where I could be a decent force with it. But simply put, I'll never see scores like this again:



I'll be lucky to get about half the kills. Oh, and probably at least 2/3 as many deaths as kills, because to actually have a reasonable chance to hit something, I have to mover closer to my enemy - which kind of, you know, defeats the whole frickin' purpose of having a sniper rifle_ Especially when he can just rush over and remove 1/3rd of my health with a single TOW, or a Grenade, while I have to wait 5 seconds to do 160 (not even 185 anymore, 160!) damage back. Assuming, of course, it hits, and the chances of that happening are less than witnessing Elvis crash a UFO into the Loch Ness Monster, seeing Bigfoot crawl out of the smoking wreckage, opening a wormhole in space, and then getting picked up by ET, Lando Calrissian, and an Arilou Lalee'Lay in the Space Battleship Yamato.

Meanwhile I've got a L20 Brawler (which was the other L20 I made in those phases), a L16 Infiltrator that would've been L20 by now had there been no reset, and even a frickin' Scout which is five or six levels above my SS. Hell, I got a Rocketeer that's a higher level!

I know that you want to make it more of a skillful class. That's fine, but the damage reduction, the movement speed reduction, and the fact you need to scope and stay perfectly still should be enough. When someone can rush up to you, directly at you, and you're STILL missing usually one or two thirds of your shots - and you know it's not from lack of aim but from a damn RNG or the fact that your weapons have actual lag time in terms of hitting targets, whereas some ravishing rodent with an AR or a SMC can pepper you from much further away instantly, the class is, simply put, not fun to play at all and just ends up being a way to completely handicap yourself while you play. They already had the advantage in DPS; now they have the extra advantage of being able to actually hit you when you may not be guaranteed to hit THEM. It's the equivalent of playing Chess while giving the enemy three or four pawns worth of advantage: Doable, but only by the best. The average player has no chance in bunny hell.

Ask yourself a question: How many Sharpshooters have you run across this beta_ I can tell you how many I've seen, in all the games I've played this beta:

Two.

Exactly two.

And both of them, like myself, were known Sharpshooter users. One of them started this frickin' topic.

This is because most people, myself included, aren't playing a mech that, for all intents and purposes, has weapons that tickle their opponent only occasionally, and are playing mechs that can actually be a force without having to be backed up by a whole team to turn in an acceptable performance. While we could go, I dunno, 12-7 with a Sharpshooter, why bother when we can go 21-4 with something else_

The answer: There is literally no reason.

TL;DR: The Sharpshooter went from being a precision-rewarding class to a prayer-rewarding class. As in, you basically have to pray to the fuzzy bunny god, Eclipse, to get a kill, and your prayers being answered is 100% dependent on how often you say "Fuzzy Bunny" after every single death you WILL suffer.

Now if you'll excuse me, I got some worshipping to do. Hail Eclipse, fuzziest of the fuzzy bunnies, he whose presence is so with my Sharpshooter that his image is affixed to that mech's cockpit!

Edited by DarkPulse, December 06 2012 - 12:30 AM.

[Akrium]

There were a few things making SS a bit... too much in the last 2.

1. Fix across the board to the skill tree nerf. Armor count reduced, damage reduced. This put the mechs back more on equal grounds (at the expense of us being able to tweak a mech to the way we wanted)

2. Damage output reduced. Good god they hit way too hard. I played it both CBE2 and 3 and while I easily feel the damage difference and the lack of health, all it did was make me be more aware and play smarter. I still kill people perfectly fine. Could a slight damage increase be needed, I could see that. But you cannot go overboard or people are going back to playing run and gun sniper. This was a horrid thing back in CS before they nerfed the awp. I would run hallways and 1 shot ppl without zoom and no one stood a chance unless they were doing it too and got me first. The SS is meant to be a mech for long range, so it makes sense that it will not do well at CQC or at chasing down people to finish them off. There are many sacrifices to having the best long range in the game.

ok.. I expect to be trashed now. Because I know there are a lot of you guys that love your SS.

[DarkPulse]

Good news: A dev in charge of weapon balance has responded, and it seems to answer most of the criticisms.

I'll withhold full judgment until I actually buy one in OB, but from what it sounds like, much more of the shots will hit now, which is really mostly what it needed.

[Cpt_Kill_Jack]

I say put the SS back to how it was in Alpha. It was pretty good there. While not being too good.

Edited by Cpt_Kill_Jack, December 06 2012 - 07:58 AM.

[Akrium]

DarkPulse, on December 06 2012 - 06:09 AM, said:

Good news: A dev in charge of weapon balance has responded, and it seems to answer most of the criticisms.

I'll withhold full judgment until I actually buy one in OB, but from what it sounds like, much more of the shots will hit now, which is really mostly what it needed.

They seem to be coming out more now that this round of beta is almost done. Cage door opened_

I'd say everything looks promising for the SS after the dev post.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Akrium, on December 06 2012 - 08:39 AM, said:

They seem to be coming out more now that this round of beta is almost done. Cage door opened_

They've been under a huge crunch to get things done before 12.12.12. Perhaps some of them are starting to get a bit of free time here and there.

[Frenotx]

Btw, they're still hitscan, and have never NOT been hitscan.

[DeVact]

DarkPulse, on December 06 2012 - 12:27 AM, said:

... less than witnessing Elvis crash a UFO into the Loch Ness Monster, seeing Bigfoot crawl out of the smoking wreckage, opening a wormhole in space, and then getting picked up by ET, Lando Calrissian, and an Arilou Lalee'Lay in the Space Battleship Yamato.

May I use this as sig_ lol'd SO FRIGGIN HARD xD

OT: Agree, put the SS where it was in CB1 & CB2!

[DarkPulse]

AsianJoyKiller, on December 06 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

They've been under a huge crunch to get things done before 12.12.12. Perhaps some of them are starting to get a bit of free time here and there.

Or perhaps they got away from the men in the white coats.

Don't worry, guys! Only six more days of 18 hours, warm soda, and stale pizza!

DeVact, on December 06 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

May I use this as sig_ lol'd SO FRIGGIN HARD xD

Knock yourself out. Credit is appreciated~♥

[TerranCmdr]

Thanks for the link to the dev post, that eases my mind.  I loved SS in Alpha 2 and CBE1+2, but have had hit-or-miss (heh, literally) games with it in CBE3.  My most notable achievements with SS in CBE3 have been "most deaths," as opposed to usually top of the leaderboard in the previous betas.

Anyway, glad to hear it's getting rebuffed a bit.  Last night I had a couple of very frustrating games with SS and actually ragequit. =/

[h0B0]

Interrobang, on December 05 2012 - 09:39 PM, said:

h0B0, on December 05 2012 - 08:47 PM, said:

SS scares me even in their current form.
I have seen AJK Plague and CaptainSoviet do well with it, and as an a class i lose half my health in 1 burst scary.

The SS isn't what scares you, it's Plague and CaptainSoviet that do. Just because they are very skilled players doesn't mean the class is op. I hope they return the SS to pre-CB3, the nerf was completely unnecessary.

Not sure if you are trying to insult me or humour me.
I probably havent been clear enough but what scares me about the SS is its burst and the fact that i have almost no way of knowing i am being attacked and from where i am attacked from.
This has nothing to do with player skills and far less to do about "my fear" of those skilled players.

Enjoy this pic you deserve it.

Edit: i never referred to the SS as OP nor have i referred to the players as skilled or OP. although admitedly i have respect for their skill and ability with the SS(not fear).

Edited by h0B0, December 06 2012 - 06:46 PM.

[DarkPulse]

I don't see how you can not know. If you're shot, you naturally get a bit of cockpit judder and a red wedge showing you the approximate direction it came from. Plus now with the Sabot you get a smoke trail to trace.

Of course, that won't help if they're above or below, but situational awareness should be dictating that if you can't find them in the horizontal swath of that direction, you begin looking on the vertical, and 80% of the time, it'll be up and not down.

Edited by DarkPulse, December 07 2012 - 03:14 AM.

[h0B0]

DarkPulse, on December 07 2012 - 03:13 AM, said:

I don't see how you can not know. If you're shot, you naturally get a bit of cockpit judder and a red wedge showing you the approximate direction it came from. Plus now with the Sabot you get a smoke trail to trace.

Of course, that won't help if they're above or below, but situational awareness should be dictating that if you can't find them in the horizontal swath of that direction, you begin looking on the vertical, and 80% of the time, it'll be up and not down.

I haven't done much testing on the subject. But from my experience if i am focused on killing a mech i wont notice the "sound of a  damp haddock slaping the side of my mech". Furthermore cockpit judder_ I am fighting in a bobble head here adding light cockpit judder doesn't do much to help me differentiate who, when and where i am being attacked from. Lastly the HEAT has comparative range and accuracy and it leaves a giant red trail of smoke behind it, it also jerks your cockpit and knocks you back. compare that to the tiny white smoke of the SS. i compare the heat to the SS simply due to the fact that if you want to have a sniping class be fun and balanced for the player who are getting sniped they need to have a clear indication that they are being targeted (either by sound or visually) why then does the HEAT a non sniping weapon do this more efficiently_

I did not want to start arguing about the SS since i have no CBE3 experience with it and feel i can not judge accurately. But since i started i might as well continue.

I have issues with people stating the SS should not be a support class mech.
It should have disadvantages in CQC if it intends to be the most efficient range class. Asking the devs to make an SS be able to be just as efficient in CQC as other mechs just break the game since he will be able to dominate both ranged and CQC fights equally which is not the case of any other mech. Lastly turning a niche mech into an allround mech doesn't help the feeling of "lack of diversity" some people feel about this game. In due time when teams get organized, new mechs and maps are released i hope we can find a comfortable place for mechs that have a definitive advantage for specific tasks. Take the grenadier for exemple, he is pretty bad at dueling other mechs in general but he is great at denying certain areas of the map and i feel he will get his moment to shine when the time comes.

Sorry for the rant. what i meant to replay was

Quote

i have almost no way of knowing

Please make damage sustained more audible for most/all weapons and possibly make the tracers a bit more visible on the SS