24 replies to this topic

[LunarBlu]

Here is why.  A light mech can take it out!

The Flak Cannon and the Scouts Mini Flak Cannon do about the same amount of damage.  I had a mech, not sure which kind but it was not a Heavey Mech, right in front of me.  We where next to an AA gun. His body is so big that it is bigger than my redical. I shot him twice, than a lot for this mech.  It did not even take is life 1/2 way down.  As far as I under stand it the Flak Cannon is a shot gun.  So 2 hits up close and personal means you are dead, not alive.

Tow Rocket explosion radius needs to be expanded + it needs to do more damage. I know you get an upgrade for this.  This is frustrating. Light Mechs run circles around me and just kill me.
SA Hawkins, is over heats to fast. Plan and simple.

Fortified Torrent needs to have an increase in “heavy defense”.  I move in and out of cover but an Medium Mech just walks right up to me all the while not dodging and takes me out.  I mean come on.  I suppose to be a slow moving turret.  Why is that possible.

I know the Reload Rate is suppose to be slow.  I get why, the gun are suppose to be powerful. The guns are not powerful so this Brawler is handicapped with slow weapons.  I be aware that I do not want to nurf the game, but you came up with a week Mech that is a waste of money.

What really a pain is that the Flak Cannon is weak and not balanced with the rate of fire.

[KaszaWspraju]

A light mech have 500HP, you have 850, two hit from TOW practically leaves dying A-class mech.

If at that time the mech with 500HP, removes your 850 is probably not the fault of Brawler.

Brawler is the beast, I am in my little mech, do not walk up to him, if rookie pilots is there.

Edited by KaszaWspraju, December 17 2012 - 07:33 AM.

[Alloycat]

Brawler rocks!

Turret mode is bad on all the c classes, though Brawlers is the best of them (still pretty bad imo)

Flack is really strong - don't just sit and exchange fire, duck in and out of cover and take advantage of the very high burst damage of Flack+TOW.

Edited by Alloycat, December 17 2012 - 07:40 AM.

[LunarBlu]

I hit a Light Mech dead on with my Flak Cannon two times in a row and The Light Mech didn't die.  My room mate plays as well and he said the same thing as me.

I recomand that they either fix the damage or make the guns reload faster.

[Adler]

Brawler isn't a waste of money. You're a waste of a Brawler.

Also, Shotguns are high-damage at close range, but they aren't the killing machines you'd expect after playing infantry combat games. I suggest you find a way to cope, or use the Point-D Vulcan. I think Brawlers have access to those, last I checked.

[LunarBlu]

Thank you for the suggestion, I will look into it. The more I think about it the more I see where I was let down.  It all in the discription. I want to play a tank, the Brawler is made out to be a tank but it is not.

When you play a brawler chances are, you aren't going to win a head-on fight.  Brawler is made to be close range heavey defence fighter like a tank.  It is not what it discription says it is.   Then I make another suggestion to balance the brawler.

The loss of mobility is not really worth the added armor.

My suggestion for balance are this.  I say just pick one.
1 Increase the close range dammage of the Flak Cannon,
2 Increase the reload speed of the Tow Rocket.
3 Increase the hit point of the Bralwer to 1000.
4 Change the discription of the bralwer.

Honetly search the the internet and you will see the same thing.  People play style with the Brawler paired with an Assalt Mech .  Never alone even agenst a single mech alone.  Does that sound like a tank to you_

[marshalade]

Adler, on December 17 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

Brawler isn't a waste of money. You're a waste of a Brawler.

This. Skilled Brawler pilots are terrifying. Maybe it's not the mech for you, OP, but it's not bad.

Also, it's never a good idea to come onto the forums with 0 previous posts and talk about completely reworking and rebalancing a mech. That sort of thing is never going to be received positively. It indicates to us that you haven't been around the game very long, are not skilled, and are probably making judgments at face value. Level the Brawler to 25. If you still have concerns about balance, come back and talk to us.

Edited by marshalade, December 17 2012 - 10:18 AM.

[LunarBlu]

Marshalade, You made me rethink on how the community thinks/works. Thank you.  Especially a Support forum with a subject of “Tell us where it hurts.”   I took it as mean please explain to us what you would like to change in the game.
In my experience when someone new gives you a fresh look at something I tend to not ignore it.  I actually consider it and think about it and see if it is worth putting effort into in.
Simply put I was mislead by the description and applied what I know about FPS and shot guns to this Brawler mech.  I just expected something a little stronger and tougher.   Before I posted I looked on-line for how to play the Brawler better. I found out other shared my opinion.  That is why I posted.
Here is proof of the brawler Flak Gun needs to be fixed. This is the Brawler Game Play footage.  At 54 second the Brawler spins around and shoots a Medium Mec. The Brawler is on top of him shoots him with his Flak gun and hardly any damage at 56-57 seconds.   At that range it would take 15 to 20 hits to kill that Mech.   Am I wrong in my assumption that the Falk Cannon gun is too weak after seeing that video_


Ok, I really would like to hear from a Hawken team, no offence Marshalade or other who posted in replay to my comment.  I also not saying you not from the team it just does not seem like it.  I will add a few bug reports in and maybe my the community will take me seriously.

[marshalade]

I have absolutely no affiliation with the Hawken dev team whatsoever. I'm not saying I (shouldn't have said we) don't take you seriously, it's just that I've seen this mech though a lot of changes in the game and as a result I am comfortable with where it stands.

[Adler]

You're taking this well, Lunar. I imagine you'll be an asset to the community one day.

More on-topic, though, I've personally experienced shots at close range from the Flak Cannon against B- and C-class mechs doing substantial damage.

That and I've had kills achieved in under 3 seconds when I combine the TOW Rocket, Flak Cannon, and H.E Charge.

I don't think the Brawler or any of its weapons need to be reworked, although perhaps a reclassification may be called for, as it's really no more defensive than any other C-class Mech.

[Demi_God]

My problem with the Brawler is that if I can't run away I should be equipped for continuous combat.... less heat plz

The only time I was truly pissed off about the Brawler's balance was when I was engaged in a 2v1 defending a node.  I will not suggest I am a great player, but I played this encounter perfectly.  What actually killed me was over-heating on with my Flak Cannon.  Close quarters combat in a 2v1 node defense... in theory Brawler/Flak would be your best option.  I killed one of my opponents with perfectly timed shots, and then the other shoved a sub-machine gun in my face while I was left overheating.

And yeah the Flak cannon is light on damage.  It doesn't really shine in a way that makes it a compelling choice over mid to close range weapons.

[LunarBlu]

I got my ass handed to me by an Infiltrator. I came up behind him and hit him with a Flak Cannon and Tow Rocket.  It a simple fact that my Flak Cannon can not do enouph damage.  Yeah, Brawler is a waste of money.   Even in the You Tube video the Mechs the Brawler faught didn't move that much.

If things do not change or I feel I am not heard I will ask for my credit back.

Edited by LunarBlu, December 18 2012 - 07:54 AM.

[Krighton]

The Brawler in that video is killing everything in sight. I have to agree though, I made a thread calling out the balance. The weapon damage etc. is very misleading.

You have to run and cowar with certain mechs, you can't just play the game, and shoot stuff like you can with Fred.

Fred needs to be nerfed into the ground. and then again for good measure.

Edited by Krighton, December 18 2012 - 11:16 AM.

[Kronguard]

I got my Brawler recently,honestly,the by far BEST points sink i have ever committed to,brawler is easy to play,but hard to master,every single mech excels at specific situations,brawler is good for single target picks,if you know what you are doing,a light/medium class in close encounter should not be a trouble at all,i was just playing Siege,and at EU point i took down lvl13 scout and lvl 24 infiltrator and i still had 480hp left (i am running defensively with SA Hawkins and MG turret,nothing else)
Only because you are sitting in one of the toughest mechs,and it happens to have a ''specific'' name,does not mean you are invincible.
I think that 90% of people who cry about brawlers are those who expected to be immortal once they got it,and while you can come very close to it,it takes practice.

[Kronguard]

LunarBlu, on December 18 2012 - 07:43 AM, said:

I got my ass handed to me by an Infiltrator. I came up behind him and hit him with a Flak Cannon and Tow Rocket.  It a simple fact that my Flak Cannon can not do enouph damage.  Yeah, Brawler is a waste of money.   Even in the You Tube video the Mechs the Brawler faught didn't move that much.

If things do not change or I feel I am not heard I will ask for my credit back.

Ask for your credits back_ what do you think this is_ a money loan office_

[LunarBlu]

I taken out stronger before, but that not the point.  What I am saying is that the Brawler is unbalanced. I also offered suggestion on hwo to fix the ballance.

FYI, you want to know how to beat a brawler just walk towards it.  Use this an an example: Take a Brawler and another mech and infiltrator.  Have them walk toward each other.  The Brawler will loose even with more HP.   No other wepons involved.

The problem is everyone is playing this game based on beta strengths. Not on what they'd like to see.

[Gunhed]

As a pilot of A class mech..in 7 out of 10 solo dogfights with a C class..I win..cause I move fast..but it all comes down to a pilot and hes skill/tactics..Ive played against some bad mojo brawlers man..not every mech is for all..most have their preferences and a fav class..like me..a Berserker..why_..coz it fits my syle..
You should find your mech..rather than demanding changes that fit you..

Turret mode sucks IMHO..

[Brojo]

You are wrong in your assumption about the video. In the video you posted, at the :55 the first shot he takes didn't fully connect. Remember that the Flak shot comes from the left. The shot hit the wall. You can see the sparks. It still did some damage. The followup shot hit for about 15% of the targets life. He then splashes on the first TOW shot. Following that are 2 partial shots and then another good Flak shot with a TOW for the kill to clean up. 7 shots in all. Most of the damage came from the 5 Flak shots. Nowhere near 15-20 shots needed. Flak is really strong at that range. Just because you have your sights on them does not mean the shot will connect. The bullets don't come from the center of your screen.
The difficulty you have with the Brawler probably stems from having to get that close. Reaching close range is painful with a heavy mech like the Brawler. Your suggestion to lower the cooldown on TOW rocket leads me to believe you arent very good at getting damage out of it, despite it being one of the strongest weapons in the game. The extra HP that heavy classes have allow them to survive 1 more TOW Rocket than mediums. If you spend that HP closing distance, you are going to end up losing. I'm not trying to be rude here, but perhaps you need more experience (and thus a deeper understanding). You understand that your expectations aren't being met, but you need to realize where the problem lies.

The Brawler demands more than close ranged attrition. This game does not reward that style at all. You might win a fight, but spend just as long repairing as if you had died. The Brawler's ability to frontload damage can force enemies to hide in close quarters. The temptation is to hunt them down like some big scary monster. That is wrong. You are too slow to chase. A heavy mech rounding a corner is just going to eat a rocket as his prey ducks away. You are not the hammer. You are the anvil. Anyone forced into your range eats some of the highest burst in the game. Getting rushed down out in the open happens. You can only rely on the TOW rocket as they close in on you as the Flak Cannon is nearly useless outside of melee range. You must master the TOW rocket if you wish to have any hope of surviving. Dropping your Shield item can provide extra cover against bullets, but don't hide in it because you still take rocket damage. If you keep the shield between you and them, the enemy may try to jump and shoot over it. This means they cannot dodge and make for an easier target with the TOW. If you are good enough, you may even be able to avoid their rocket since you stayed on the ground. If they move to take cover inside your own shield, you can then force your way into melee with the Flak.
You may feel the Flak Cannon is weak, but its actual damage per second is rather high (assuming full damage). The problem is that you can reach circumstances where the slow, chunky damage is not efficient. That last shot you need might only need to do 5% health instead of 15%. It might take you a full second between shots, but an Assault Rifle could deal that in less than half the time. I realize this information is only good for making the best of an existing weakness and not for fulfilling your expectation of some ridiculous mech that doesn't need cover to take on multiple mechs. Taking on superior numbers is not an issue of the mech. That lies with the pilot. (And the quality of the opponents)

Edited by Brojo, December 18 2012 - 11:47 PM.

[LunarBlu]

I am sorry you all are missing the point.  I want this game to succeed.   There is no need to spend money on Mechs that are weaker than the free Mech.  Most of you are bias and know how to work around the short coming of the game.

Here is a post my friend put together after playing.  Again we want the game to succede for many years, but I do not see that happening ta this point. After the luster of piolting Mech wears off you have a game that  unbalanced and very much boring to play.
http://community.pla...536#entry137536




It will fail because of the community.   I going back to playing beta of Firefall.

[Kagekiri]

Here's how I see things. Remember. These are personal opinions, so don't get offended.

I don't think brawlers need any change to them CURRENTLY. That's important. The game's been in open beta for a week now, which is such a small timeframe to draw conclusions. Those of you who still remember how things were in the alpha / CBTs, I think the devs have done some amazing things to balance the game.

Lunar, you mentioned that people know how to work around the shortcomings of something. Well. That's really the way this game is meant to be played. This is not a modern day shooter (like CoD, MoH, BF etc), where everyone's stats are equal, like speed, hp, and such. That's the main reason you won't get 2-shot with a flak. In UT games, a flak instakilled you up close, because you were still a puny little mortal. However you are in huge mechs now, with tons of armor that can take a beating (even class As). The basic thing to do is to learn and adapt, or as someone said: "lvl your brawler to 25" first. You'll get to know it much better.

I've seen some pilots tearing the battlefield with them. Some even had less than 2-3 deaths in a deathmatch scenario on Bazaar, with their regular flaks, agains swarms of scouts and c-rt assults. You just have to know what to do with which mech. Yes a scout can circle around you an shoot you to pieces but what if you try to position yourself against walls / terrain, or into small choke points where the enemy's strengths become their weakness!

I was raging in my first few matchups against basically any light class mechs but mostly the berserker. I thought it's unfair that they can wield the same weapons as an assault whilst having more mobility, jumping height, acceleration, and such but really, it's just a matter of perspectives.

I'd suggest you play some more matches with your brawler, since it's a decent mech if you know how to handle it.

-See you on the battlefield.