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Poor Performance on AMD/ATI systems


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#1 mechjeb

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Posted December 17 2012 - 01:06 PM

As the title says, HAWKEN performs very poorly on AMD/ATI processors or GPU's.

My system specs are well above the minimum requirements, yet the game drops down to 20 frames per second. on even the lowest settings and resolution.

But the kicker is, even at 60FPS, the game still looks like it's running at something like 10-15FPS, including in the menu's.  Mouse movements are also very choppy.

Texture streaming also seems a bit slow, as everytime I spawn it takes a while to go from blurry low quality textures to full regular textures.

CPU and GPU usage are a bit erratic.  It doesn't really seem to align with what's going on in the game.  For example, just the main menu eats around 90% of the CPU or GPU at times.  In heavy fights in battle, the GPU might be pushing 60% and the CPU might only be pushing 39%.  There is a noticeable lag when zooming in with the Sharpshooter mech.

I've tried changing every setting possible, from inside HAWKEN and inside the GPU control panel, with oddly mixed results and not much success. There is literally almost zero performance difference even when I enabled 4x supersampling antialiasing, which tells me that the game itself is definitely not utilizing resources to their full potential properly.  

I don't know exactly what is causing the decreased performance, but there's definitely a huge performance reducing bug somewhere in the HAWKEN code.



SYSTEM SPECS:

AMD Phenom II X3 720 @ 3.2Ghz
Radeon 5770 GPU
8GB DDR3 1333 RAM
128GB Sata3 Samsung 830 SSD (500MB/s read speed)

Severity: 10/10.  almost gamebreaking, will definitely lose more than half of potential customers to this if it isn't fixed.

Edited by mechjeb, December 17 2012 - 01:11 PM.


#2 Bratwurst

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Posted December 17 2012 - 01:23 PM

This is my computer:

676GB HP Laptop
AMD A8-3530MX quad core @ 7.6Ghz
Dual Radeon HD 6620G
6144 RAM
4GB Memory

So far running well, no problems.

Edited by Bratwurst, December 17 2012 - 01:23 PM.

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#3 mechjeb

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Posted December 17 2012 - 02:30 PM

View PostBratwurst, on December 17 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

This is my computer:

676GB HP Laptop
AMD A8-3530MX quad core @ 7.6Ghz
Dual Radeon HD 6620G
6144 RAM
4GB Memory

So far running well, no problems.

View PostBratwurst, on December 17 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

This is my computer:

676GB HP Laptop
AMD A8-3530MX quad core @ 7.6Ghz
Dual Radeon HD 6620G
6144 RAM
4GB Memory

So far running well, no problems.

View PostBratwurst, on December 17 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

This is my computer:

676GB HP Laptop
AMD A8-3530MX quad core @ 7.6Ghz
Dual Radeon HD 6620G
6144 RAM
4GB Memory

So far running well, no problems.

7.6ghz_

#4 Animal_Man

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Posted December 17 2012 - 02:59 PM

Do you have PhysX Particles on_ If so, turn them off.

#5 SUPPPORT_ARE_TROOPS!

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Posted December 17 2012 - 03:30 PM

Menus are a known issue that plagues all users, not just AMD ones.  There is also a nasty bug that can show up if you play in windowed mode.  It will *feel* like you have a very low frame rate even though you technically have an acceptable frame rate.  AMD video cards run the game just fine, I had a 6850 for a while and it ran it on Ultra no problems.  Like Animal_Man said, do not turn on PhysX if you do not have an nvidia card.

#6 mechjeb

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Posted December 17 2012 - 03:50 PM

You all aren't telling me anything I don't already know.

As I said, I've tried every single setting there is in both the game and the GPU control panel.  I am highly proficient in virtually all aspects of computers.  

This is not an issue due to a setting or deficiency in my hardware, it is solely down to the game itself.  

It is not just the menu's it's the entire game.

#7 ArnieF4440

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Posted December 17 2012 - 04:32 PM

This might help, I'm not running AMD anymore, but I used to ...

Its for instability, but using a different profile may help
http://community.pla...nstable-system/
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#8 mechjeb

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Posted December 17 2012 - 04:43 PM

I have included a few videos to try and communicate the issue.   the only trouble is, since the frame rate is locked at 30fps, the issue doesn't appear as bad on recordings.

keep in mind, I am recording this at 1280x800 resolution with Physx OFF, low graphics, medium textures, Performance mipmap and texture filtering settings in Catalyst Control Panel.  Vsync OFF.  No Antialiasing. No other programs running in the background.  These are VERY LOW settings for a game this day and age, and my system should definitely be able to handle more.  Yet it still doesn't run great.  I usually run higher resolution than this, but since I have a 16:10 monitor, it's easier to just record at 720p for encoding and upload time.

As you can clearly see, the mouse itself is choppy.  All mouse movements are smooth mouse movements from input, and not once did I stop the mouse during the making of this video while in the menu's except to click on things.  You can clearly see this translates in game aswell.  You can also clearly see the game choke quite a few times, and the overall movement of looking around is choppy and not smooth.

as for the triple buffering comment, I've tried it both on and off already, and it doesn't make a difference.  but it wouldn't, because 1) it's for vsync, and 2) it's an opengl feature.....hawken is directx, not opengl.  therefore the option itself has no bearing on the game.

http://youtu.be/Hbu9IT8X1o4
http://youtu.be/CrTOys0YV30
http://youtu.be/HfGssINNAtU

Edited by mechjeb, December 17 2012 - 05:09 PM.


#9 Animal_Man

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Posted December 17 2012 - 05:27 PM

The game looks fine from your first video. I see no problems at all.

#10 mechjeb

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Posted December 17 2012 - 05:31 PM

View PostAnimal_Man, on December 17 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

The game looks fine from your first video. I see no problems at all.

you've got to be joking or trolling.  it's almost a slideshow.

Edited by mechjeb, December 17 2012 - 05:32 PM.


#11 Animal_Man

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Posted December 17 2012 - 05:33 PM

You're the one complaining about everything in the game.

You think Healing needs to be taken out of the game.

You think TOW Launcher needs a DMG Nerf.

You think the game performance is bad ( I don't see anything different on your screen from mine.)

#12 mechjeb

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Posted December 17 2012 - 05:37 PM

View PostAnimal_Man, on December 17 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

You're the one complaining about everything in the game.

You think Healing needs to be taken out of the game.

You think TOW Launcher needs a DMG Nerf.

You think the game performance is bad ( I don't see anything different on your screen from mine.)

View PostAnimal_Man, on December 17 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

You're the one complaining about everything in the game.

You think Healing needs to be taken out of the game.

You think TOW Launcher needs a DMG Nerf.

You think the game performance is bad ( I don't see anything different on your screen from mine.)

well then you obviously aren't qualified to respond to this thread.

#13 Rei

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Posted December 17 2012 - 07:50 PM

Have you updated your graphics drivers_ Just any idea to find out what's going on because your specs are definitely strong enough to run this game. You can check your in-game FPS with a console (F5) command. Type in "Stat FPS" with no quotations and hit enter

View PostBratwurst, on December 17 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

This is my computer:
...
AMD A8-3530MX quad core @ 7.6Ghz
...

Don't multiply your number by 4 because you have 4 cores... It.s a 1.9 GHz quad core.
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#14 Moderator03

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Posted December 17 2012 - 08:28 PM

Please keep ALL posts constructive and inviting to other members.

#15 mechjeb

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Posted December 17 2012 - 08:56 PM

View PostRei, on December 17 2012 - 07:50 PM, said:

Have you updated your graphics drivers_ Just any idea to find out what's going on because your specs are definitely strong enough to run this game. You can check your in-game FPS with a console (F5) command. Type in "Stat FPS" with no quotations and hit enter

View PostBratwurst, on December 17 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

This is my computer:
...
AMD A8-3530MX quad core @ 7.6Ghz
...

Don't multiply your number by 4 because you have 4 cores... It.s a 1.9 GHz quad core.

View PostRei, on December 17 2012 - 07:50 PM, said:

Have you updated your graphics drivers_ Just any idea to find out what's going on because your specs are definitely strong enough to run this game. You can check your in-game FPS with a console (F5) command. Type in "Stat FPS" with no quotations and hit enter

View PostBratwurst, on December 17 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

This is my computer:
...
AMD A8-3530MX quad core @ 7.6Ghz
...

Don't multiply your number by 4 because you have 4 cores... It.s a 1.9 GHz quad core.

I do have the latest drivers.  There are beta drivers, but I only bring that up in case anyone suggests that, because those are only aimed at specific tweaks for the 7000 series for a variety of games, which doesn't apply to hawken or my GPU model.  Even then, I don't think ATI could code a tweak to fix this issue without reprogramming the issue out of the game itself.  So I don't think ATI could make a driver update that would fix this, because it most likely has nothing to do with the drivers.

Any setting that is relevant, has been explored to the limit.  After thorough tinkering with everything that can be tinkered with, I can only conclude it's the game itself.  I wasn't really hoping for suggestions from the start though, because like I said, I was thorough.  All that it seems I can do is try to bring this issue to light so that hopefully the HAWKEN team can handle it.

Edited by mechjeb, December 17 2012 - 09:21 PM.


#16 Animal_Man

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Posted December 18 2012 - 12:43 AM

View Postmechjeb, on December 17 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

View PostRei, on December 17 2012 - 07:50 PM, said:

Have you updated your graphics drivers_ Just any idea to find out what's going on because your specs are definitely strong enough to run this game. You can check your in-game FPS with a console (F5) command. Type in "Stat FPS" with no quotations and hit enter

View PostBratwurst, on December 17 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

This is my computer:
...
AMD A8-3530MX quad core @ 7.6Ghz
...

Don't multiply your number by 4 because you have 4 cores... It.s a 1.9 GHz quad core.

View PostRei, on December 17 2012 - 07:50 PM, said:

Have you updated your graphics drivers_ Just any idea to find out what's going on because your specs are definitely strong enough to run this game. You can check your in-game FPS with a console (F5) command. Type in "Stat FPS" with no quotations and hit enter

View PostBratwurst, on December 17 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

This is my computer:
...
AMD A8-3530MX quad core @ 7.6Ghz
...

Don't multiply your number by 4 because you have 4 cores... It.s a 1.9 GHz quad core.

I do have the latest drivers.  There are beta drivers, but I only bring that up in case anyone suggests that, because those are only aimed at specific tweaks for the 7000 series for a variety of games, which doesn't apply to hawken or my GPU model.  Even then, I don't think ATI could code a tweak to fix this issue without reprogramming the issue out of the game itself.  So I don't think ATI could make a driver update that would fix this, because it most likely has nothing to do with the drivers.

Any setting that is relevant, has been explored to the limit.  After thorough tinkering with everything that can be tinkered with, I can only conclude it's the game itself.  I wasn't really hoping for suggestions from the start though, because like I said, I was thorough.  All that it seems I can do is try to bring this issue to light so that hopefully the HAWKEN team can handle it.

If you think your mouse is lagging during menu screens, get over it, it doesn't lag during game. Your gameplay looked flawless in comparison to mine, and I'm running an Intel i-7 3770k and a ATI 6850 and it looks just like yours, I have no issue with a semi slow cursor during menus, because it's perfectly fine during gameplay. What are you really complaining about here_ Your FPS also looks good. I honestly don't understand what the issue is. What's the issue MechJeb_

#17 SUPPPORT_ARE_TROOPS!

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Posted December 18 2012 - 11:47 AM

In an effort to make this thread constructive, use "stat unit" instead of "stat fps" and tell me which number is the highest (other than frame time).

#18 mechjeb

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Posted December 18 2012 - 03:33 PM

View Post[ADH]SUPPPORT ARE TROOPS, on December 18 2012 - 11:47 AM, said:

In an effort to make this thread constructive, use "stat unit" instead of "stat fps" and tell me which number is the highest (other than frame time).

ok here's what I have.

I decided for the first test, to max out the game.  so ultra graphics and textures @ 1680x1050 resolution (fullscreen). no special settings in catalyst control panel, 'letting the game decide' checked off on options like AA and AF, no vsync, physx off, etc.

there's 4 displays with that command:  Frame, Game, Draw, GPU.

One thing I noticed is frame and draw are almost always matched, although when they aren't, frame is usually the higher one.

at the settings listed above, this is about the average of what I saw in-game on the desert map.  it was unbearably choppy the entire time.

Frame: 45-65ms
Game: 8-12ms
Draw: 45-60ms
GPU: 30-45ms

all of these except 'game' went into the yellow or red quite often. at death, these stats seem to all be quite a bit less loaded and the game runs smoothly looking at my mech from above after its destroyed.

as another example, I'm going to list readings from the 'your mech' garage menu sitting idle

Frame: 47ms
Game: 1.8ms
Draw: 47ms
GPU: 40ms


Now those same readings, same resolution, but with the graphics and textures turned on low in the garage idle.

Frame: 35-37ms
Game: 1.8ms
Draw: 34-37ms
GPU: 30ms

Now I'm going to lower the resolution to 1024x768, textures and graphics still low, in the garage and idle.

Frame:8.20ms (seems locked, wont budge)
Game: 1ms
Draw: 2.3ms
GPU: 5-6ms


ok, now I'm going to use the same settings in-game as the previous result (1024x768 all low settings), but I'm going to list idle and loaded values (i.e. standing still looking at nothing, and in battle)

IDLE
-
Frame: 8ms
Game: 6ms
Draw: 8ms
GPU: 8ms

LOADED
-
Frame: 17-30ms
Game: 9-14ms
Draw: 17-29ms
GPU: 17-29ms

and even with these values, there's still hitches here and there sometimes and points where it goes into the yellow on all stats except 'game'. taking these millisecond delays in consideration, this means that even at the lowest settings and lowest resolution, I'm barely getting between 30-40fps on average with a max of around 58fps very sparsely.

Another test for control, I decided to do 1024x768 but with ultra textures and graphics.

sitting there after spawn:

Frame: 25-30ms
Game: 10ms
Draw: 25-30ms
GPU: 25-30ms

And here's a screenshot of me moving around, slightly in battle at the same settings of 1024x768 with ultra textures and graphics.

http://imageshack.us...1/97479364.png/

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Uploaded with ImageShack.us




Just to be a bit more thorough, I decided to take some screenshots of the game with GPU/CPU monitoring software in view.  this is the result:

Posted Image
-
Posted Image

Some things to note about these 2 images;

Image1:

FPS: 37
CPU USAGE:  59%
GPU USAGE: 82%

Image2:

FPS: 27
CPU USAGE: 63%
GPU USAGE: 82%


in this final test, I am getting a 37% frame loss at virtually the same CPU/GPU usage, and actually seeing 37% more frames with 4% less CPU usage, while both my CPU and GPU aren't fully utilized at all in either screenshot.  Not to mention this frame rate is quite low as it is even at its highest, especially considering the low resolution.

I'm no expert, but I'm also no laymen.  it's clear to see the issue lies in not the CPU execution of code, but rather there seems to be something being sent to the GPU that is eating far more cycles than it has any business to, (or at the very least mucking up everything else and causing GPU draws to take longer than they're supposed to), while still not utilizing the GPU to its fullest.

So in its simplest form, what we seem to have here is an instruction sent to the GPU that causes frame draws to take a very long time while still not fully utilizing the GPU itself.

If I had to guess, the culprit seems to be some piece of code the GPU is executing that doesn't work with parallel processing well or isn't 'parallelizing' enough... or both.

I think it's clear to see by now that this issue is very much real.

Edited by mechjeb, December 18 2012 - 11:55 PM.


#19 mechjeb

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Posted December 18 2012 - 05:52 PM

bump

#20 Thundercnut

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Posted December 19 2012 - 04:56 AM

Just to add to this I just spent 400 quid on a Sapphire 7970 GHz edition and this game runs like absolute dog sh*t on it. Which is really disappointing cos i bought the damn card so could play it!

More specifically, in the mech garage the panning is choppy and and not smooth, in game it is the same. tried it with resolution and and all quality settings on absolute minimum and still the same.

This new card is a bloody monster and should be able to max this game without breaking a sweat, yet my three year old Nvidia GTX 470 runs it better!

Is anything going to be done about this hawken people_

Also if anyone has any performance tips then I would be grateful! Although needing to tweak at all is a joke on this card...

IM going to go and put my head in the oven now....    -_-




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