56 replies to this topic

[Beemann]

So I've talked this over with a few players in my clan and in others, and I've been trying to work through the details and this is what I have so far

This proposal is for a competitive gametype. Matches can be played by length of time or til a given score. I wanted to avoid some of the issues that normal CTF runs into as a spectator-applicable gamemode so I made a few adjustments

Teams spawn in on their respective sides of the map. There is one device (be it a giant EMP, bomb, flag, or indestructible fuzzy Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog) in the center of the map
The goal of either team is to take said device and bring it to a specified point on the enemy team's side of the map. When picked up, the device replaces the secondary slot of the mech in question, showing which mech has the device, and allowing them to fire it grenade-launcher style. The obvious downside of this replacement mechanic is that it cuts down on the offensive capability of the mech in question

There are a few advantages this gamemode has over the current selection.
1. It promotes aggressive gameplay. In order to score at all you MUST move into enemy territory. There is no way to gain an advantage or keep a stalemate through passive play, and unlike classic CTF, it will never turn into a standoff (if you don't know what I'm talking about, try watching Tribes Ascend)
Teams cannot play passively or attempt to camp a specific spot (as they can in RA3, and TDM in most titles)

2. It centralizes conflict. Casters can always know where the major source of action is because there's one. On the flip side, it doesn't ignore 90% of the map in order to centralize said conflict. A well made map will include many routes, and methods of swapping between those routes, in order to give teams plenty of variation in their strategy, but without making the match confusing to watch.

Questions_ Comments_ Criticisms_

[AsianJoyKiller]

I can't help but think of large-scale tactical Grifball.

EDIT: I'll comment properly later when I'm not half asleep.

Edited by AsianJoyKiller, December 23 2012 - 12:56 AM.

[Necro]

I've always been more of a fan of 2 flag CTFs

one on each side and bring them back.

(will expand more later also)

[0Gungrave0]

Necro, on December 23 2012 - 01:04 AM, said:

I've always been more of a fan of 2 flag CTFs

one on each side and bring them back.

(will expand more later also)

2 flag CTF is one of the oldest game modes in FPS and is always a favorite of mine

I do hope it gets added because it would be a great game mode. but I think the one carrying the flag should burn through their boost faster while carrying the flag. Also you can press E (the "use" button) to drop the flag in case things get a little hairy in a fire fight that requires more movement of it you want to pass it to a teamate with more health.

[Beemann]

2 issues with 2 flag CTF
1. The previously mentioned standoffs (seriously, watch some comp Tribes: Ascend gameplay. I can pretty much guarantee you'll see a standoff where both teams have the opposing flag and send in small groups to try to retrieve their own flag to cap. It's probably the least interesting gameplay possible for something that people still make money playing)
2. It decentralizes conflict, which leads to either larger team requirements or smaller map sizes, confusing gameplay for newbies, and a more difficult time following the game as a spectator
I'd be fine with 2 flag CTF as just a pub mode, but there's a lot of issues with it as a competitive gamemode, especially with Hawkens current movement system and the feasibility of camping

[Necro]

Beemann, on December 23 2012 - 01:24 AM, said:

2 issues with 2 flag CTF
1. The previously mentioned standoffs (seriously, watch some comp Tribes: Ascend gameplay. I can pretty much guarantee you'll see a standoff where both teams have the opposing flag and send in small groups to try to retrieve their own flag to cap. It's probably the least interesting gameplay possible for something that people still make money playing)
2. It decentralizes conflict, which leads to either larger team requirements or smaller map sizes, confusing gameplay for newbies, and a more difficult time following the game as a spectator
I'd be fine with 2 flag CTF as just a pub mode, but there's a lot of issues with it as a competitive gamemode, especially with Hawkens current movement system and the feasibility of camping

What if the cap point was in the center_

2 flags and 1 central cap point.

Edited by Necro, December 23 2012 - 01:36 AM.

[0Gungrave0]

Necro, on December 23 2012 - 01:35 AM, said:

Beemann, on December 23 2012 - 01:24 AM, said:

2 issues with 2 flag CTF
1. The previously mentioned standoffs (seriously, watch some comp Tribes: Ascend gameplay. I can pretty much guarantee you'll see a standoff where both teams have the opposing flag and send in small groups to try to retrieve their own flag to cap. It's probably the least interesting gameplay possible for something that people still make money playing)
2. It decentralizes conflict, which leads to either larger team requirements or smaller map sizes, confusing gameplay for newbies, and a more difficult time following the game as a spectator
I'd be fine with 2 flag CTF as just a pub mode, but there's a lot of issues with it as a competitive gamemode, especially with Hawkens current movement system and the feasibility of camping

What if the cap point was in the center_

2 flags and 1 central cap point.

sort of a KoTH CTF_

If it was that way i think the central cap point should be something that moves around to change it up.

Edited by 0Gungrave0, December 23 2012 - 01:37 AM.

[Beemann]

Necro, on December 23 2012 - 01:35 AM, said:

Beemann, on December 23 2012 - 01:24 AM, said:

2 issues with 2 flag CTF
1. The previously mentioned standoffs (seriously, watch some comp Tribes: Ascend gameplay. I can pretty much guarantee you'll see a standoff where both teams have the opposing flag and send in small groups to try to retrieve their own flag to cap. It's probably the least interesting gameplay possible for something that people still make money playing)
2. It decentralizes conflict, which leads to either larger team requirements or smaller map sizes, confusing gameplay for newbies, and a more difficult time following the game as a spectator
I'd be fine with 2 flag CTF as just a pub mode, but there's a lot of issues with it as a competitive gamemode, especially with Hawkens current movement system and the feasibility of camping

What if the cap point was in the center_

2 flags and 1 central cap point.

How is that different from 1 flag and 2 cap points, aside from the fact that post-flag grab your strat is to just run away_
Oh and the decentralization issue

Edited by Beemann, December 23 2012 - 01:37 AM.

[Necro]

0Gungrave0, on December 23 2012 - 01:36 AM, said:

Necro, on December 23 2012 - 01:35 AM, said:

Beemann, on December 23 2012 - 01:24 AM, said:

2 issues with 2 flag CTF
1. The previously mentioned standoffs (seriously, watch some comp Tribes: Ascend gameplay. I can pretty much guarantee you'll see a standoff where both teams have the opposing flag and send in small groups to try to retrieve their own flag to cap. It's probably the least interesting gameplay possible for something that people still make money playing)
2. It decentralizes conflict, which leads to either larger team requirements or smaller map sizes, confusing gameplay for newbies, and a more difficult time following the game as a spectator
I'd be fine with 2 flag CTF as just a pub mode, but there's a lot of issues with it as a competitive gamemode, especially with Hawkens current movement system and the feasibility of camping

What if the cap point was in the center_

2 flags and 1 central cap point.

sort of a KoTH CTF_

Sort of.

It would centralize combat and flag carrier protection would become a huge thing.

obv. you can't cap if they both have the flag.

[Beemann]

Necro, on December 23 2012 - 01:38 AM, said:

Sort of.

It would centralize combat and flag carrier protection would become a huge thing.

obv. you can't cap if they both have the flag.

Except 2 flags decentralizes, because you have to follow 2 carriers
And if you can't cap, without having both flags secured, how have you fixed the normal CTF problem_

[Necro]

Beemann, on December 23 2012 - 01:37 AM, said:

Necro, on December 23 2012 - 01:35 AM, said:

Beemann, on December 23 2012 - 01:24 AM, said:

2 issues with 2 flag CTF
1. The previously mentioned standoffs (seriously, watch some comp Tribes: Ascend gameplay. I can pretty much guarantee you'll see a standoff where both teams have the opposing flag and send in small groups to try to retrieve their own flag to cap. It's probably the least interesting gameplay possible for something that people still make money playing)
2. It decentralizes conflict, which leads to either larger team requirements or smaller map sizes, confusing gameplay for newbies, and a more difficult time following the game as a spectator
I'd be fine with 2 flag CTF as just a pub mode, but there's a lot of issues with it as a competitive gamemode, especially with Hawkens current movement system and the feasibility of camping

What if the cap point was in the center_

2 flags and 1 central cap point.

How is that different from 1 flag and 2 cap points, aside from the fact that post-flag grab your strat is to just run away_
Oh and the decentralization issue

there is equal map travel in 2F and 1C but the other mode has one sided map travel. There are quite a few small changes.

I guess that's not really true it could be one sides both ways.

Beemann, on December 23 2012 - 01:40 AM, said:

Except 2 flags decentralizes, because you have to follow 2 carriers
And if you can't cap, without having both flags secured, how have you fixed the normal CTF problem_

But there is one cap point so combat would happen in one area instead of half way across maps.
And without the CTF having 2 flags it just doesn't seem the same to me. There isn't the tension of possibly losing your flag while grabbing the other.

Edited by Necro, December 23 2012 - 01:56 AM.

[HotDog]

That is a very nice Idea.

-----But---------

There has to be one issue fixed first -> Party Joining and Skillbased Team balance ^^

-----------

You dont want to have this turned in to a slaughterhouse. It could go onesided very fast!

------------

The reason is simple - CTF - is Teambased - Communication,Teamplay and Skill is key to success. Please dont be angry i realy like this idea but Basics need to be fixed first until such nice gamechangers should take effect. ;D

Yours Truly

-BV-HotDog

[Nitris]

I like the original idea. One 'flag' (I'm thinking better for it to be a bomb or something destructive.) in the middle and you have to take it to your opponents base. I think this should be implemented and become the eSports gametype of choice. Why_

1. All players know where they need to be at all times.
2. Action is focused and centralised- There is only one thing anyone should need to look at. The flag.
3. Massive tension when flag is getting nearer to one of the bases "Oh fuzzy bunny its close to our base!" or "Come on, so close to their base!!"
4. Due to the above it becomes firstly: Easy to commentate. Secondly: Easy to spectate. There are no gimicks you need to learn, just that the flag must go to point A or B and which team wins when it reaches one of them. Simple.

These other suggestions about multiple flags all split the action up and make things much harder to follow both as a spectator and commentator.

[h0B0]

Guess we can't be calling it capture the babe anymore if were gonna toss her around with a babe launcher.

Then again, its been done before.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Necro, on December 23 2012 - 01:46 AM, said:

Beemann, on December 23 2012 - 01:40 AM, said:

Except 2 flags decentralizes, because you have to follow 2 carriers
And if you can't cap, without having both flags secured, how have you fixed the normal CTF problem_

But there is one cap point so combat would happen in one area instead of half way across maps.
And without the CTF having 2 flags it just doesn't seem the same to me. There isn't the tension of possibly losing your flag while grabbing the other.

Problem with your 2flag 1cap idea is that what you end up with is basically a 1 silo MA match.

[Phaaze]

I have seen may infils that can cover an entire map fast no problem so if one of them picks it up and runs like hell (+holo) mode would be done in no time....

[AsianJoyKiller]

Phaaze, on December 23 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:

I have seen may infils that can cover an entire map fast no problem so if one of them picks it up and runs like hell (+holo) mode would be done in no time....

That wouldn't work.

You ever watch Grifball_ At it's core, it's the same gametype.
Baring occasional bouts of random luck or wiping the enemy team, you can't just pick up the bomb and run through unscathed.
And in Hawken, you'd be playing on a much larger map with relatively slower movement. And you would have defenders looking to stop that exact strat. And unless they're incompetent, they'll be able to stop a mad-rush Infil.

[Phaaze]

AsianJoyKiller, on December 23 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

Phaaze, on December 23 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:

I have seen may infils that can cover an entire map fast no problem so if one of them picks it up and runs like hell (+holo) mode would be done in no time....

That wouldn't work.

You ever watch Grifball_ At it's core, it's the same gametype.
Baring occasional bouts of random luck or wiping the enemy team, you can't just pick up the bomb and run through unscathed.
And in Hawken, you'd be playing on a much larger map with relatively slower movement. And you would have defenders looking to stop that exact strat. And unless they're incompetent, they'll be able to stop a mad-rush Infil.

hahaha you expect people to be competent hehehe .... ohh thats funny....

[AsianJoyKiller]

Phaaze, on December 23 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on December 23 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

Phaaze, on December 23 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:

I have seen may infils that can cover an entire map fast no problem so if one of them picks it up and runs like hell (+holo) mode would be done in no time....

That wouldn't work.

You ever watch Grifball_ At it's core, it's the same gametype.
Baring occasional bouts of random luck or wiping the enemy team, you can't just pick up the bomb and run through unscathed.
And in Hawken, you'd be playing on a much larger map with relatively slower movement. And you would have defenders looking to stop that exact strat. And unless they're incompetent, they'll be able to stop a mad-rush Infil.

hahaha you expect people to be competent hehehe .... ohh thats funny....

As Beemann stated, this is designed as a mode for competitive play.

[SirCannonFodder]

Reminds me of Bombing Run from UT, had a lot of fun with that back in the day.