19 replies to this topic

[D20Face]

Continuation on the derail in viewtopic.php_f=7&t=1108&start=40
I'm not quoting because it's ugly.

The problem I have is when they start taking out nonrandom elements and start by not even trying to make random elements formulaic.  When people say "don't add a low gravity map because it isn't what I consider competitive" it ticks me off. Low gravity isn't random, it's different.

Crits in League of Losers are a great example of something that could be made easily formulaic. Every x shots is a crit, as crit chance rises the number of shots it takes goes down. Same with dodges. If a person is taking the time to manage that cooldown they'd be rewarded. If they don't but they still run crit chance as a build, it can be looked at as a static DPS boost.

And they never play anything but control points in TF2. Not KoTH, not Payload, not Payload Race, not Attack/Defend, just control points. Those aren't random, they're just different. The argument that random is bad just flat out doesn't hold up when you start removing things that are considered fundamental game modes.

Gravity mods and physics mods also don't add anything random to the mix, they just add different skill sets that need to be used. Same with custom maps that aren't shitty.

Balancing weapons and junk also should almost never be done in competitive. When you are playing a game competitively, unless there is a MASSIVE outlier in terms of balance(AWP), you don't touch things. You accept the fact that some things are better than others and understand that it is what players are going to use.

I understand the removal of random elements. I do not understand the removal of all elements that aren't from Counterstrike, or the complete removal of any variation ever.

And because I like to poke at things. Poker is played competitively with millions of dollars on the line.

[GUEST!!]

Actually, I played a hell of a lot of KOTH and CTF. There are servers who are known for playing nothing but Two Fort on TF2.

In either case, I agree with you. User mods to add a little variety on occasion are nice. If you don't want what the server is offering, you can simply log onto another server. TF2 has shown me that if the core gameplay is good enough you will always be able to find a server with the core gameplay elements in tact.

[D20Face]

GUEST!! said:

Actually, I played a hell of a lot of KOTH and CTF. There are servers who are known for playing nothing but Two Fort on TF2.

In either case, I agree with you. User mods to add a little variety on occasion are nice. If you don't want what the server is offering, you can simply log onto another server. TF2 has shown me that if the core gameplay is good enough you will always be able to find a server with the core gameplay elements in tact.

I meant in competitive TF2. Tourneys and stuff for money.

I played the shit out of KoTH on normal servers.

[Cosm]

If it's separate, it's perfectly fine. I'm fine with there being maps and modes with different rules and effects, but I don't think you should be forced to play them or anything. If I want to play standard team deathmatch, and a map with low gravity comes up, I'm probably just going to leave because that's not what I wanted to play.

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If you don't want what the server is offering, you can simply log onto another server. TF2 has shown me that if the core gameplay is good enough you will always be able to find a server with the core gameplay elements in tact.

A set up like this would be ideal I think. 'Random' elements are fine, just as long as people know what they're getting into when they join a game. Otherwise everyone just leaves once the 'weird' map comes up.

[GUEST!!]

Arseface said:

I meant in competitive TF2. Tourneys and stuff for money.

I played the shit out of KoTH on normal servers

Ahhh. Yeah, never got into the competitive stuff, alas. Always wanted to but I never felt like I or my team was good enough.

[Keekenox]

Cosm said:

just as long as people know what they're getting into when they join a game. Otherwise everyone just leaves once the 'weird' map comes up.

Yes, In the server browser (which is a must in my humble opinion) servers should have information like gamemodes, mods, map rotation, ranked/unranked etc. Basicly every bit of information that we would need. I hate when they cram all the information in the names of servers and/or have no idea what the server is set up like. Basicly what it boils down to is i think that we as players, given all the information we need to do so, should make the choice on what kind of game we want to play and if we don't like it there is always another server.

Also, this goes a little into the fact that i love customization and i like things to be different. Maybe that is why i liked Garrys Mod so much. The game was based around customization, not that im saying hawken should be at all like Gmod.

Whatever, i ramble to much....

[Keekenox]

And now that i think of it, i would hope this same thing wouldn't cause a disconnect in the community. Some players ONLY likeing this mod and some players ONLY liking vanilla.

Whatever i have actual work i should be doing so im not going to waist to much more time. Im sure Arseface has something to say anyway  

[RedVan]

Thankfully, comp play is generally organized by ladders of different types.  So, if you don't like the rule set of one type, you just play the ladder that you do like.

Has nothing to do with randomness.

[The_Silencer]

As i view this, competitive tournaments are usually sponsored somehow thus that's the reason on why you can earn some of money or hardware ( or any other stuff you can think of in the past ).

IMO, it's pretty rare to find ladders based on game mods in which you can earn any award. I may be wrong on this though..

I've seen ladders organized by fan parties; yes. But most of the times the games are played under vanilla rules..

[Naraklok]

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League of Losers

I'm sorry you got owned.

[D20Face]

Naraklok said:

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League of Losers

I'm sorry you got owned.

We've been over this countless times. I hate LoL for its matchmaking queue, the item system, the lack of mod support, only 3 maps(all of which are different game modes, not just maps), the last hit system, the runes system, the fact that they add so many new champions so regularly, the passive leveling advantages, the mastery system, the completely unnecessary long-ass grind to level 30, and because being unskilled is a bannable offense.

I played a match with a friend. We were in Skype. At the end of the match he told me about how he reported one of our team mates for being unskilled. Fuck. That. I don't care how a bad a person is, banning them from a game for being that way is just wrong. The fact that the bans are largely community driven just makes it worse.

The idea that the only reason you can dislike a game is because you're bad also irks me to a large degree. LoL is full of elitist pricks who elevate the game as though it came from God. Granted, they're not worse than the Dota folks, but it's still damn bad. So many games are just a full of a bunch of bitches that aren't willing to accept the fact that something they like isn't perfect.

[Keekenox]

Arse said:

So many games are just a full of a bunch of bitches that aren't willing to accept the fact that something they like isn't perfect.

Valid Point Detected

[GUEST!!]

Had no idea you could get somone banned on LoL just for being new/bad at the game. That's pretty reprehensible if true.

[D20Face]

It likely never goes through as the reason for the ban. If it does they'll list the cause as intentional feeding instead of being unskilled. It's on the list as a separate option and you are fully able to report it though.

The fact that it's in the report feed encouraging people to consider poor play a sin on par with hacking is completely disgusting.

[Naraklok]

Being reported for "unskilled" won't result in a ban, ever.

It is there for ranking a players ELO. When matchmaking views them for a potential match, their ELO is lowered for the sake of team makeup.

ELO is a rating system. The reporting system isn't just used for bans but also weeding out system and or player errors.

[D20Face]

If somebody reports you for feeding it will.

The only difference between those two reports is cosmetic.

[Naraklok]

Being unskilled and intentionally feeding are two very different things.

[D20Face]

They look almost exactly the same when you're looking at a match. If you see 0/4/30 with 3-4 deaths before level 6, what are you gonna think_ Stupid people look like feeders because they are. It's difficult to tell intent unless the person is broadcasting it.

[Naraklok]

That's basically one of the few reasons for using the 'Intentionally Feeding' report.

If someone is broadcasting it or it's blatantly obvious. Otherwise you should be using the 'Unskilled' report. Nevertheless these reports are pretty much useless in non-ranked games.

[D20Face]

They both exist and that's evidence of the games severe hostility towards anybody that doesn't play solely to win.

And there are people that try and end up with scores like that.