182 replies to this topic

[superbank]

NWRMidnight, on January 05 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

Emp only takes away your ability to shoot and depoloy offensive/defensive weapons.  it does not limit or stop your ability to dodge, or any other mobility usuage.  If you can't avoid getting hit, or retreat and regroup in 7 seconds if you do get hit by it, you deserve to get killed.

It's not about player skill. You should not have that kind of power over another player in a fair competitive game. This is inarguable.

[Strayed_]

The poor new players! What about the new players_!_ Think of the new players!

Maybe new players aren't as pansy as you think they are. EMP is annoying but I don't think it's that widespread. Nobody is going to quit the game because one match had multiple EMP users.

That said, EMP is for pussies and it has no place in the game. Every other game that has EMP-like weapons always ends up nerfing it. I don't know why developers don't learn from each other. Disabling someone completely even for a couple seconds with a 1 min cooldown is a broken mechanic. 7 seconds is just stupid.

[Eroneouse]

The EMP is just crowd control like the rogue skills in traditional MMO's my rogue in wow can stun players to total immobility in WoW for X amount of seconds while my rogue char goes to town with massive damage attacks, my hobbit burglar in lord of the rings online can stun opponents in just the same way and again do massive damage while the poor victim can only stand there and take the damage, no option to run for cover or team mates in those games just stun n kill.

At least after an EMP hit in this game we can still scurry for cover or help.

Edit - In world of tanks a hit on an enemy tank can easily detrack the tank makeing it stand stock still for half a minit or so makeing it an easy kill for anyone close enough to hit it.

Edited by Eroneouse, January 05 2013 - 09:18 AM.

[Strayed_]

NWRMidnight, on January 05 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

Emp only takes away your ability to shoot and depoloy offensive/defensive weapons.  it does not limit or stop your ability to dodge, or any other mobility usuage.  If you can't avoid getting hit, or retreat and regroup in 7 seconds if you do get hit by it, you deserve to get killed.

^ What a badass pro. This guy, i bet he grabs life by the horns and eats newbies for breakfast, this guy.

[NWRMidnight]

superbank, on January 05 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

NWRMidnight, on January 05 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

Emp only takes away your ability to shoot and depoloy offensive/defensive weapons.  it does not limit or stop your ability to dodge, or any other mobility usuage.  If you can't avoid getting hit, or retreat and regroup in 7 seconds if you do get hit by it, you deserve to get killed.

It's not about player skill. You should not have that kind of power over another player in a fair competitive game. This is inarguable.

With that logic, each mech/weapons shouldn't have any different stats.. scout shouldn't be able to move so fast and do so much damage vs other mechs, which they control you with speed and damage.  That's all this whole game is about, control and domination.  The EMP  isn't control, it is a defense.  It is a defensive weapon, that has a counter if you chose to use it. (backup batteries)  I have only died to a EMP a couple times out of the hundred of times I've been shot, and I've never used the backup battery.  I've  destoyed people that think they got me, only to dodge/avoid them for the 7 seconds, then destroy them.  

To say a person shouldn't have that much contol reads to me "I shouldn't have to learn tactics on how to survive an emp hit, because I want easy mode"   That is all you are saying.

Edited by NWRMidnight, January 05 2013 - 09:21 AM.

[superbank]

Strayed_, on January 05 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

The poor new players! What about the new players_!_ Think of the new players!

Maybe new players aren't as pansy as you think they are. EMP is annoying but I don't think it's that widespread. Nobody is going to quit the game because one match had multiple EMP users.

That said, EMP is for pussies and it has no place in the game. Every other game that has EMP-like weapons always ends up nerfing it. I don't know why developers don't learn from each other. Disabling someone completely even for a couple seconds with a 1 min cooldown is a broken mechanic. 7 seconds is just stupid.

I've seen players consistently getting 0 kills. And that's without EMP usage. I can't imagine them toughing it out when they're being utterly demoralized by EMPs.

Eroneouse, on January 05 2013 - 09:16 AM, said:

The EMP is just crowd control like the rogue skills in traditional MMO's my rogue in wow can stun players to total immobility in WoW for X amount of seconds while my rogue char goes to town with massive damage attacks, my hobbit burglar in lord of the rings online can stun opponents in just the same way and again do massive damage while the poor victim can only stand there and take the damage, no option to run for cover or team mates in those games just stun n kill.

At least after an EMP hit in this game we can still scurry for cover or help.

Edit - In world of tanks a hit on an enemy tank can easily detrack the tank makeing it stand stock still for half a minit or so makeing it an easy kill for anyone close enough to hit it.

And that's a horrible idea when applied to a FPS. Refer to this thread for a relevant discussion: http://community.pla...-what-happened/

Read it all.

[superbank]

NWRMidnight, on January 05 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

superbank, on January 05 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

NWRMidnight, on January 05 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

Emp only takes away your ability to shoot and depoloy offensive/defensive weapons.  it does not limit or stop your ability to dodge, or any other mobility usuage.  If you can't avoid getting hit, or retreat and regroup in 7 seconds if you do get hit by it, you deserve to get killed.

It's not about player skill. You should not have that kind of power over another player in a fair competitive game. This is inarguable.

With that logic, each mech/weapons shouldn't have any different stats.. scout shouldn't be able to move so fast and do so much damage vs other mechs, which they control you with speed and damage.  That's all this whole game is about, control and domination.  The EMP  isn't control, it is a defense.  It is a defensive weapon, that has a counter if you chose to use it. (backup batteries)  I have only died to a EMP a couple times out of the hundred of times I've been shot, and I've never used the backup battery.  I've  destoyed people that think they got me, only to dodge/avoid them for the 7 seconds, then destroy them.  

To say a person shouldn't have that much contol reads to me "I shouldn't have to learn tactics on how to survive an emp hit, because I want easy mode"   That is all you are saying.

Except I don't agree with the assertions you're making. You've clearly misinterpreted my argument. Please refer to my posts in this thread. Try to understand why people think the EMP is unfair, while coincidentally we're fine with everything else. There's less complaining at least for those things.

[Kai_Kitamura]

h0B0, on January 05 2013 - 08:44 AM, said:

Most of the people i encounter using EMP can't follow thru with it.
They are not very skilled and use it as a crutch 80% of the time they use their emp and nothing happens for the next 7 seconds.

This. Every time I get EMP'd I make it my point to kill the user and I usually do because they never bother chasing or if they do, they catch up after I'm combat worthy again. Kinda defeats the point, you know.

Also, I only see one or two EMP users per match, at most. Is it because I'm mostly playing on EU/UK_

Edited by Kai_Kitamura, January 05 2013 - 09:33 AM.

[BluddyPoo]

Yes, they are probably aware of how OP emp is right now, but how hard is it to change a single number in a line of code to cut the duration down by 25-50% and send it out as a hotfix while they sort it out_ Its been OP now since Launch. I've that it was considered a little OP in CB even at 3 seconds. Im thinking they buffed it the way they did just to see if they can get people to spend Meteor Credits on Countermeasures.  

Why let it continue for almost a month when there is a thread on every page about how powerful it is_

[Eroneouse]

Superbank I had a look at that thread earlier today but ty for the link. I am sure that the arguments against EMP are as valid as those for, after all every arguments point of view is right from the perspective of the arguer.

How ever this thread is aimed at new players and I do qualify in that I have been playing this game less than 1 month and as a new player all I am saying is I am not put off the game by EMP hits. To me the EMP just resembles the crowd control mechanics I have seen in many other online games and yes even in FPS games, do the call of duty type games have stun grenades _  yes they do I used them when I played CoD.

Far from scareing this noob IE me away from the game it adds a dynamic I have to be aware of and even better I can get a counter measure to nullify the EMP or use one myself.

[Strayed_]

Kai_Kitamura, on January 05 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

h0B0, on January 05 2013 - 08:44 AM, said:

Most of the people i encounter using EMP can't follow thru with it.
They are not very skilled and use it as a crutch 80% of the time they use their emp and nothing happens for the next 7 seconds.

This. Every time I get EMP'd I make it my point to kill the user and I usually do because they never bother chasing or if they do, they catch up after I'm combat worthy again. Kinda defeats the point, you know.

Also, I only see one or two EMP users per match, at most. Is it because I'm mostly playing on EU/UK_

Out of 5 matches, like 2-3 of them will have a single EMP user. I have yet to play a match as described by the OP. That has been my experience on USWest and I've been playing pretty much non-stop for two weeks. I think people here on the forums just like being dramatic.

Also, NWRMidnight, if you were to run into someone of equal skill running EMP, you will lose everytime. You might not die everytime, but you will lose that engagement. What's the point of that argument anyway_ "EMP is ok because when a complete noob hits me with it, I can survive for 7 seconds and then kill him." Wow, want a cookie_

[superbank]

Eroneouse, on January 05 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

Superbank I had a look at that thread earlier today but ty for the link. I am sure that the arguments against EMP are as valid as those for, after all every arguments point of view is right from the perspective of the arguer.

How ever this thread is aimed at new players and I do qualify in that I have been playing this game less than 1 month and as a new player all I am saying is I am not put off the game by EMP hits. To me the EMP just resembles the crowd control mechanics I have seen in many other online games and yes even in FPS games, do the call of duty type games have stun grenades _  yes they do I used them when I played CoD.

Far from scareing this noob IE me away from the game it adds a dynamic I have to be aware of and even better I can get a counter measure to nullify the EMP or use one myself.

Fair enough.

You can still shoot when you're stunned in CoD. Even if you're killed you can still shoot (final stand etc.). Cod got it right.

I am also a new player only starting on OB. The first time I was hit with EMP I identified it for what it was. I'm not used to the concept having never played an MMO but it's implementation here definitely sends up red flags.

[BluddyPoo]

NWRMidnight, on January 05 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

superbank, on January 05 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

NWRMidnight, on January 05 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

Emp only takes away your ability to shoot and depoloy offensive/defensive weapons.  it does not limit or stop your ability to dodge, or any other mobility usuage.  If you can't avoid getting hit, or retreat and regroup in 7 seconds if you do get hit by it, you deserve to get killed.

It's not about player skill. You should not have that kind of power over another player in a fair competitive game. This is inarguable.

With that logic, each mech/weapons shouldn't have any different stats.. scout shouldn't be able to move so fast and do so much damage vs other mechs, which they control you with speed and damage.  That's all this whole game is about, control and domination.  The EMP  isn't control, it is a defense.  It is a defensive weapon, that has a counter if you chose to use it. (backup batteries)  I have only died to a EMP a couple times out of the hundred of times I've been shot, and I've never used the backup battery.  I've  destoyed people that think they got me, only to dodge/avoid them for the 7 seconds, then destroy them.  

To say a person shouldn't have that much contol reads to me "I shouldn't have to learn tactics on how to survive an emp hit, because I want easy mode"   That is all you are saying.

Lol_ That is the most ridiculous use of "with that logic!" i have ever read. They are in no way similar to each other in ANY respect. A scout moving faster does not force you to not attack. You dont have to stand there dumbfounded when a scout starts swarming around you. Now, you MAY stand there dumbfounded because you are bad, but thats besides the point.

Sure, in a 1v1 scenario, emp isnt THAT bad. you get hit by it and usually the maps have enough cover to hide. However, and this is a BIG however, this is a team game. If you are in a firefight at middle turret and your team pops off 2-3 emps and lands them, the fight just became a 5 v 2. You mop up the pieces and squash the ants scurrying for cover. If you cant get the ones running_ Oh well, you just captured that turret and can fortify your position and take control more of the map.

Then the game will become a race to see who can EMP who first (unless of course you buy countermeasures and feed some retardedly blatant attempt at making a p2w aspect concocted by meteor).

7 second lock down in a PVP Team based game is retarded. End of discussion. There is NO learning to play. If a pro player can land a tow on someone then you best believe they can land an EMP.

[NWRMidnight]

superbank, on January 05 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

NWRMidnight, on January 05 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

superbank, on January 05 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

NWRMidnight, on January 05 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

Emp only takes away your ability to shoot and depoloy offensive/defensive weapons.  it does not limit or stop your ability to dodge, or any other mobility usuage.  If you can't avoid getting hit, or retreat and regroup in 7 seconds if you do get hit by it, you deserve to get killed.

It's not about player skill. You should not have that kind of power over another player in a fair competitive game. This is inarguable.

With that logic, each mech/weapons shouldn't have any different stats.. scout shouldn't be able to move so fast and do so much damage vs other mechs, which they control you with speed and damage.  That's all this whole game is about, control and domination.  The EMP  isn't control, it is a defense.  It is a defensive weapon, that has a counter if you chose to use it. (backup batteries)  I have only died to a EMP a couple times out of the hundred of times I've been shot, and I've never used the backup battery.  I've  destoyed people that think they got me, only to dodge/avoid them for the 7 seconds, then destroy them.  

To say a person shouldn't have that much contol reads to me "I shouldn't have to learn tactics on how to survive an emp hit, because I want easy mode"   That is all you are saying.

Except I don't agree with the assertions you're making. You've clearly misinterpreted my argument. Please refer to my posts in this thread. Try to understand why people think the EMP is unfair, while coincidentally we're fine with everything else. There's less complaining at least for those things.

I understand why people think the emp is unfair, it is because they don't like getting completely shut down, and chose to blame it on over powered EMP rather then their own chose to no learn the tactics on how to survive an EMP blast.  I for one don't get mad, or even slightly upset if I get hit by an EMP, I laugh, sometimes out loud (girlfriend finds it ammusing) when I get hit because I think to my self "hahaha they think they got me, watch this, they are dead"  and in many cases I win the fight with that mech because one I know it's not the end of the fight, and two, they falsly think they got me.   It's all about skill and frame of mind.  If I thought "damn OP EMP again" I'd stop trying to survive,give up like, and blame it on that like  most people do rather then work on my skill to survive and dominate after an emp blast.

A person can either place blame on their death by getting hit by an EMP on themselves and their poor skill and ability, and learn from it to become better and less likely to die from an EMP hit, or they can sit back and call it OP and give up, which is what the complainers are doing.  They don't want to have to put in the time to learn how to survive an EMP blast.

[Strayed_]

NWRMidnight, on January 05 2013 - 09:50 AM, said:

superbank, on January 05 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

NWRMidnight, on January 05 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

superbank, on January 05 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

NWRMidnight, on January 05 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

Emp only takes away your ability to shoot and depoloy offensive/defensive weapons.  it does not limit or stop your ability to dodge, or any other mobility usuage.  If you can't avoid getting hit, or retreat and regroup in 7 seconds if you do get hit by it, you deserve to get killed.

It's not about player skill. You should not have that kind of power over another player in a fair competitive game. This is inarguable.

With that logic, each mech/weapons shouldn't have any different stats.. scout shouldn't be able to move so fast and do so much damage vs other mechs, which they control you with speed and damage.  That's all this whole game is about, control and domination.  The EMP  isn't control, it is a defense.  It is a defensive weapon, that has a counter if you chose to use it. (backup batteries)  I have only died to a EMP a couple times out of the hundred of times I've been shot, and I've never used the backup battery.  I've  destoyed people that think they got me, only to dodge/avoid them for the 7 seconds, then destroy them.  

To say a person shouldn't have that much contol reads to me "I shouldn't have to learn tactics on how to survive an emp hit, because I want easy mode"   That is all you are saying.

Except I don't agree with the assertions you're making. You've clearly misinterpreted my argument. Please refer to my posts in this thread. Try to understand why people think the EMP is unfair, while coincidentally we're fine with everything else. There's less complaining at least for those things.

I understand why people think the emp is unfair, it is because they don't like getting completely shut down, and chose to blame it on over powered EMP rather then their own chose to no learn the tactics on how to survive an EMP blast.  I for one don't get mad, or even slightly upset if I get hit by an EMP, I laugh, sometimes out loud (girlfriend finds it ammusing) when I get hit because I think to my self "hahaha they think they got me, watch this, they are dead"  and in many cases I win the fight with that mech because one I know it's not the end of the fight, and two, they falsly think they got me.   It's all about skill and frame of mind.  If I thought "damn OP EMP again" I'd stop trying to survive,give up like, and blame it on that like  most people do rather then work on my skill to survive and dominate after an emp blast.

A person can either place blame on their death by getting hit by an EMP on themselves and their poor skill and ability, and learn from it to become better and less likely to die from an EMP hit, or they can sit back and call it OP and give up, which is what the complainers are doing.  They don't want to have to put in the time to learn how to survive an EMP blast.

If you go up against a player of equal skill, or even decent skill running EMP, you will lose everytime. Just because you can beat a complete noob using EMP, doesn't make EMP ok. Seriously, it's a stupid argument and you should stop making it.

[Akaon]

NWRMidnight, on January 05 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

Emp only takes away your ability to shoot and depoloy offensive/defensive weapons.  it does not limit or stop your ability to dodge, or any other mobility usuage.  If you can't avoid getting hit, or retreat and regroup in 7 seconds if you do get hit by it, you deserve to get killed.

Play a class C mech, get hit by EMP from a berserker/scout, for example. If you honestly, honestly think you can survive that situation by *retreating*... Unless he's a complete noob of course. Also, plenty of situations where EMP is unavoidable. The AoE is huge.

[Cyclonus]

h0B0, on January 05 2013 - 08:44 AM, said:

Most of the people i encounter using EMP can't follow thru with it.
They are not very skilled and use it as a crutch 80% of the time they use their emp and nothing happens for the next 7 seconds.
When we fix the EMP issue everyone will jump on the next bandwagon and buy an MG turret because it too requires no skill to use.
Then we will see MG turret QQ threads. And the same question will arise: Is MG turrets making fresh meat leave_
Until the high skilled players start abusing the HE charges in game.

The mg turret takes a bit of skill in placement and utilization, it's not like the opponent doesn't having a fighting chance when he can take out a turret fairly easily.

Edited by Cyclonus, January 05 2013 - 09:59 AM.

[BluddyPoo]

Quote

***snipped***
A person can either place blame on their death by getting hit by an EMP on themselves and their poor skill and ability, and learn from it to become better and less likely to die from an EMP hit, or they can sit back and call it OP and give up, which is what the complainers are doing.  They don't want to have to put in the time to learn how to survive an EMP blast.

Sounds like you play a lot of DM my good man. Try to expand your horizons or get in to games that arent complete one-sided stomps.

[MaximumSquid]

h0B0:

EMP makes most heavy mechs useless because you eat a ton of damage once disabled and no real way to run

I'm just discussing the short term problems, but in the long run no change to EMP is going to be horrible for the metagame

[NWRMidnight]

Strayed_, on January 05 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

Kai_Kitamura, on January 05 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

h0B0, on January 05 2013 - 08:44 AM, said:

Most of the people i encounter using EMP can't follow thru with it.
They are not very skilled and use it as a crutch 80% of the time they use their emp and nothing happens for the next 7 seconds.

This. Every time I get EMP'd I make it my point to kill the user and I usually do because they never bother chasing or if they do, they catch up after I'm combat worthy again. Kinda defeats the point, you know.

Also, I only see one or two EMP users per match, at most. Is it because I'm mostly playing on EU/UK_

Out of 5 matches, like 2-3 of them will have a single EMP user. I have yet to play a match as described by the OP. That has been my experience on USWest and I've been playing pretty much non-stop for two weeks. I think people here on the forums just like being dramatic.

Also, NWRMidnight, if you were to run into someone of equal skill running EMP, you will lose everytime. You might not die everytime, but you will lose that engagement. What's the point of that argument anyway_ "EMP is ok because when a complete noob hits me with it, I can survive for 7 seconds and then kill him." Wow, want a cookie_

Oh, so you are saying that if a player with the same skill level with me engages me, and uses an EMP I will lose the engagement every time.  you are wrong sir.  I have had engagements with better skilled players then me lose the engagement with me when using an EMP.  You comment and your opinion shows that you are afraid of the EMP rather then embracing it's weaknesses and strenghts both as the target or the shooter.  The problem with the EMP is reguardless of your skill level, it gives the shooter a artificial sense of security.  I have it on one mech, and I have died using it because of the artificial security it gives you when it fails to shut down your intended target.

The only problem with the EMP is it misleads even skilled players such as yourself into believing it is Over Powered causing you to give up.  If you believe that you will lose to someone of equal skill using the EMP, you have already given up and you will lose the engagement.  BTW, the only way to win an engagement is to kill the other mech.  If you escape, then neither one wins the engagement because you have survived to continue the engagement at another point, so your arguement is mute.