32 replies to this topic

[erathic]

Seeing the fancy Apex PhysX trailer i did some researchs on youtube and found that this technology is also able to handle complex real-time destructions.

To me that feature would bring :

Pros :

• New tactical way to experiment some parts of certain maps (designed in this purpose).
  
• Better overall immersive feel and responsiveness.
  
• More "power feel" to the weapons and mechs.

Cons :

• Will clutter the view during combats
  
• Will take more time for making/balancing new maps
  
• May change the minimal requirements specs for the game,or unbalance it for players.

Videos :

Edited by erathic, February 01 2013 - 02:56 AM.

[Majic12]

I'd love to see a map get fuzzy bunny up during the course of a game, just not to the extend like in that demo.
But man, cqc with an enemy mech strafing behind a corner and your flak charge making some bits and pieces fly off it exposing the underlying structure would be truly awesome.

[M4GPUL]

I voted no. It would be a great idea for all the players having a good pc. But imagine what would happen to all the players that already now are playing hawken with low graphics.

[Majic12]

They can simply not activate the physx stuff_

[TeNkuLo]

this in hawken would be an fuzzy bunny^^,but for sure it need a lot of work.maybe more than make bigger maps and/or extend what we have now.for me in the first place hawken need bigger maps but also fully or partial environment destruction would make the game much better

[Juodvarnis]

My pc can barely run it on low settings, so i will not vote

[M4GPUL]

Majic12, on February 01 2013 - 03:54 AM, said:

They can simply not activate the physx stuff_

It doesn't mean anything. Not activating Physx stuff doesn't mean that the world is not destroyable.

[Majic12]

M4GPUL, on February 01 2013 - 04:11 AM, said:

Majic12, on February 01 2013 - 03:54 AM, said:

They can simply not activate the physx stuff_

It doesn't mean anything. Not activating Physx stuff doesn't mean that the world is not destroyable.

I'm sorry, I can't follow you here.
If you deactivate the settings which make the environment destructible, won't it stop being destructible_

[M4GPUL]

Majic12, on February 01 2013 - 04:26 AM, said:

M4GPUL, on February 01 2013 - 04:11 AM, said:

Majic12, on February 01 2013 - 03:54 AM, said:

They can simply not activate the physx stuff_

It doesn't mean anything. Not activating Physx stuff doesn't mean that the world is not destroyable.

I'm sorry, I can't follow you here.
If you deactivate the settings which make the environment destructible, won't it stop being destructible_

Answer to me. Imagine a situation where a building being destructed by a Tow causes a certain amount of damage to a mech. What the player with deactivated Physx will see_

[erathic]

Yeah the engine should be very well optimized to run on even the lower settings since it would be more than visuals improvements.
but maybe the engine can handle it (for now), i don't know.

Dice Frostbite 2.0 engine feature such destructions and particules effects and can run smooth on a Xbox 360, so it might be possible to achieve that by optimizing it. Or maybe not.

[Majic12]

M4GPUL, on February 01 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

Answer to me. Imagine a situation where a building being destructed by a Tow causes a certain amount of damage to a mech. What the player with deactivated Physx will see_

Gotcha. That would be a problem, yes. The effect can only be eye candy and not alter the actual gameplay possibilities.
But I don't think, that was ever in question, or am I mistaken here_

[M4GPUL]

But the effect can not be only eye candy, cos it will inevitably alter the gameplay. Imagine again a player with deactivated Physx who thinks of being covered by a building, but this one is actually destroyed...

[Majic12]

Yes, as I mentioned above, the extend of damage you could cause should never allow a player to actually destroy an opportunity for another player to find cover. Imagine just some bits of the edges flying off exposing some of the structure below it but never completely removing enough material to actually fire through a hole or something, that would be unfair of course.

[RedSamovary]

Agreed on that. Destructable environnement can be awsome, but it should never affect the "fun, gameplay" factor. Sometimes devs must make hard choices...

[M4GPUL]

Majic12, on February 01 2013 - 06:19 AM, said:

Yes, as I mentioned above, the extend of damage you could cause should never allow a player to actually destroy an opportunity for another player to find cover. Imagine just some bits of the edges flying off exposing some of the structure below it but never completely removing enough material to actually fire through a hole or something, that would be unfair of course.

Mmm, i've not completely got it. In few words u're saying to destroy just the parts of the buildings that don't affect the gameplay_

[erathic]

Yes If ever implemented in some maps any gameplay changing feature, it MUST work and force-enabled for all players.

M4GPUL, on February 01 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

Majic12, on February 01 2013 - 06:19 AM, said:

Yes, as I mentioned above, the extend of damage you could cause should never allow a player to actually destroy an opportunity for another player to find cover. Imagine just some bits of the edges flying off exposing some of the structure below it but never completely removing enough material to actually fire through a hole or something, that would be unfair of course.

Mmm, i've not completely got it. In few words u're saying to destroy just the parts of the buildings that don't affect the gameplay_

I think he suggested that you could destroy only a "layer " of a wall, permanently revealing it's inside/structure, since the current PhysX effect only "stack" particules (that looks all the same) over 3d meshs with decals, without modifying them. So it will still be a "visual improvement" rather than a tactical one.

Edited by erathic, February 01 2013 - 07:52 AM.

[M4GPUL]

erathic, on February 01 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

Yes If ever implemented in some maps any gameplay changing feature, it MUST work and force-enabled for all players.

M4GPUL, on February 01 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

Majic12, on February 01 2013 - 06:19 AM, said:

Yes, as I mentioned above, the extend of damage you could cause should never allow a player to actually destroy an opportunity for another player to find cover. Imagine just some bits of the edges flying off exposing some of the structure below it but never completely removing enough material to actually fire through a hole or something, that would be unfair of course.

Mmm, i've not completely got it. In few words u're saying to destroy just the parts of the buildings that don't affect the gameplay_

I think he suggested that you could destroy only a "layer " of a wall, permanently revealing it's inside/structure, since the current PhysX effect only "stack" particules (that looks all the same) over 3d meshs with decals, without modifying them. So it will still be a "visual improvement" rather than a tactical one.

Mmm, not a bad idea. But we don't have to forget the fps problem ...

[erathic]

Optimization is the key!

[necroq]

deleted

Edited by necroq, February 01 2013 - 09:03 AM.

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

Voted no, because arbitrary swirling particle streams do nothing for me in an FPS
Neither do the extra 'destruction' particles.
It was fun in certain games, but considering the strain Hawken already puts on systems without Physx (or with the current Physx), unles they optimize the hell out of it so the performance hit won't be too bad on mid range cards, i doubt it'll catch on quick, unles they manage to make it work properly off a secondary (lesser) GPU like you see in the Batman games.