36 replies to this topic

[Houruck]

You say Scouts are OP_ Maybe HEAT scouts in the hand of a skilled player kiting and corner fighting like a boss.



But this is nonsense.
We played a Siege match just now, and I admit it was one sided because we were about to win with 3000 base HP. Until a certain pilot showed up and started to take control of the AA with his C class and I think he advised his teammates to do so because they almost all were Rocketeers and Grenadiers after this point. No hard feelings, (and I know it is against the rules to mention his name ) He is a cool dude (even if he replied LOL to almost everything we wrote). But this was a nightmare. I am not a C class player so I could not adapt to it (this is my fault). It is much worse than a Scout gang fuzzy bunny or the Sharpshooter paradise (a.k.a. Bazaar). And not just because I was on the wrong side of the "fuzzy bunny".

It was nearly impossible to finish even one because despite they are slow, they can just take turns in the AA and defend their teammates. Hellfire was brutally buffed because Bruiser was underpowered. I know Rocketeers were kind of useless too but it is impossible to fight against a horde of them in Siege mode. The obvious problem is the weapons are not mech exclusive and tweaks can cause even more unbalance.

Edited by Houruck, February 19 2013 - 02:55 PM.

[nonsiccus]

This isn't the first time mass hellfires dominated on Titan. This is due in part to the buff that the hellfires got, but also due to the open layout of the map. Holding s2 provides an inordinate advantage when re-taking s1/3, especially when mass hellfire spam can prevent any kind of ranged retaliation.

[Houruck]

And in Siege there is no need to pay too much attention to E1 and E2 at this point. Do not get me wrong, I think it is okay to use the same weapon on more mechs.

I think maybe there should be a class or mech limit like in Primal Carnage, where you can spawn as a T-Rex only when there is a certain number of Human players. Clans already use class limits in Hawken.

Edited by Houruck, February 19 2013 - 02:54 PM.

[RentAKnight]

There are tunnels and an underpass on Origin that often goes unused.  Typically everyone groups up at the front of S2 and slams themselves into the brick wall that is the other team that's controlling the AA.  

People need to learn how to play on the MAP rather than QQ about trying to rush 6 guys on the AA.

Any combination of mech's grouped in one place are going to destroy anyone that marches toward them.  (this is an inherent design flaw with siege right now.)

Try sending teammates around the back while you distract them in the front.


The inherent problems with siege do not make a single class OP.

6 CRT's on the AA would cause as much trouble.

Similarly that skilled player would wreck as much havok in any other mech.

Edited by RentAKnight, February 19 2013 - 02:03 PM.

[BloodsHurricane]

you gotta peel them away from the AA. its possible but very hard

[C_Andrade]

i love my rockeeter

[Houruck]

RentAKnight, on February 19 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

There are tunnels and an underpass on Origin that often goes unused.

I use the tunnels and the jumppads to flank them and to cause surprise to repairing enemies but in this case it was really useless.

RentAKnight, on February 19 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

The inherent problems with siege do not make a single class OP.

I deliberately did not used that buzzword in the name of the thread. Rocketeers are not OP. The problem is with Siege and class stacking. Rocketeers are just the new guys on the block.

BloodsHurricane, on February 19 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

you gotta peel them away from the AA. its possible but very hard

This is also true for all other lineup, but add a load of HP and Hellfire downpour to the mixture:
You can not do it if they are really working together. Even if someone makes a mistake and tries to flee to the floor level (this is usually a bad idea, especially with slower mechs) a teammate can help him out with ease.

RentAKnight, on February 19 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

Similarly that skilled player would wreck as much havok in any other mech.

Please do not take me as a noob. I know.
Maybe you have to live through this situation to understand me.
I think I can not express myself clearly.

Edited by Houruck, February 19 2013 - 02:54 PM.

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

Meh, nothing that 3 well placed EMP's wont fix.
If i'm in my Berserker and i see a C class, i ready the EMP, dodge around them, light them up with the TOW and Vulcan, dodge away for cooldown (make them think i'm running) then as they turn the corner, EMP, F and then Spam bursts of Vulcan + more TOW.
Most of them die before they even realise it's a trap, some just give up, stand there and accept their fate, others try to dodge and/or try to run...
But in the end, they all succumb.

There is one exception to this, but that guy is OP

Edited by Dread_Lord_Pitr, February 19 2013 - 02:56 PM.

[Houruck]

I do not use EMP even after the needed nerf. If you got hit by one now, you deserve it. But you still can chain it with good team coordination. You suggest to play dirty against dirty tactics_

And again: In this situaction you can not dodge around them, the AA was full of them. Everyone thinks I am complaining about going against one Rocketeer in any other circs_ I am not afraid to go inside the AA (unlike some) when it is under enemy control (this showed on my stats at the end ). And with good situation awareness in an A class you can zip around them and crush everyone. But in this case you can not even take a step in this crowded place.

Edited by Houruck, February 19 2013 - 03:10 PM.

[BloodsHurricane]

Fact is a coordinated defense can only be beaten by a coordinated offence.
you want specifics_

*takes long breath*

you need to have a good team, you need to have someone distract them from the front, you need to have snipers bringing those c-mechs down to half health, you need infiltrators going in from behind using cloak and and GL+Detonator combo , you need to have granadiers bouncing rev-gl of the AA walls, you need EMPs, you need someone to act as bait try to lure them out by presenting a tempting target, they are only human and one of them will make a mistake , YOU NEED TO GET IN THEIR FACE AND MAKE THEIR SPLASH WORK AGAINST THEM!!!
*huff puff* i need some air

Edited by BloodsHurricane, February 19 2013 - 03:35 PM.

[v009]

Lol. 2 Rocketeers and 1 Brawler. It was a good turn around from 300 to win
I feel the C class dodge feels slower now for some reason.

[ReachH]

6 heat scouts bombarding from the low ground and the front and a few under the bridge would wipe that out pretty quickly. You can shoot the roof of the hut thing from the low ground and there is literally nowhere to hide.

Simply a case of 6 people trying to fight into a choke vs 6 class Cs with superior cover and layers.

Edited by ReachH, February 19 2013 - 09:52 PM.

[Beemann]

You know what would be great_
If the AA/S2 wasn't a tiny box that only AOE and CQC weapons could effectively deal with

[ReachH]

Beemann, on February 19 2013 - 09:57 PM, said:

You know what would be great_
If the AA/S2 wasn't a tiny box that only AOE and CQC weapons could effectively deal with

An elevated box, on a bridge, with gates.

ESPORTS.

Edited by ReachH, February 19 2013 - 09:59 PM.

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

Houruck, on February 19 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

I do not use EMP even after the needed nerf. If you got hit by one now, you deserve it. But you still can chain it with good team coordination. You suggest to play dirty against dirty tactics_

Hell yeah i am suggesting you treat them to a dose of their own medicine.
It's like HEAT Scouts, everyone knows it's OP, so if folks choose to use it anyway and then act like people shouldn't complain and that it's not OP, they deserve everything people throw at them.
I've played a game i like to call 'EMP's, EMP's ERRYWHARE !', where i coordinated a team to EMP a rather annoying Heat Scout every time they saw him...
Dude played for 3 minutes before he raged out, swore at us in Russian, and then left the game.
Team promptly stopped using the EMP and it became a fun match after that.
We still lost, but it was a close call, and everyone had fun.

Edited by Dread_Lord_Pitr, February 20 2013 - 12:50 AM.

[Houruck]

I must stress that the opposing team were the same that we almost defeated without breaking a sweat. And after the turnover our team morale went down to the toilet.

BloodsHurricane, on February 19 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

you need to have a good team, you need to have someone distract them from the front, you need to have snipers bringing those c-mechs down to half health,

Done that. Good pointer. It was not very effective. See above.

BloodsHurricane, on February 19 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

you need infiltrators going in from behind using cloak and and GL+Detonator combo

I love to do that, ninja style

BloodsHurricane, on February 19 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

you need to have granadiers bouncing rev-gl of the AA walls, you need EMPs.

So your advise is also to play dirty.

BloodsHurricane, on February 19 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

you need someone to act as bait try to lure them out by presenting a tempting target, they are only human and one of them will make a mistake

Done that. Even communicated it to my team.

BloodsHurricane, on February 19 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

YOU NEED TO GET IN THEIR FACE AND MAKE THEIR SPLASH WORK AGAINST THEM!!!

Oh boy, I tried it many times during the match.

Thank you for being specific about counter tactics but note that I am not really a newbie.
Maybe I overreacted, but you get the point. Rocketeers in a group are now more than fearsome defending the AA on Origin. But this is the same problem when a team consists of only other mech (like Scouts). A homogeneous setup should be a disatvantage, but sometimes it is on the contrary.

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

I fear only 1 Rocketeer...
The rest of them, i laugh at.
Brawlers, however...
THOSE i fear.

[Disrupted]

Am I the only one who noticed that this thread has an oddly high amount of views, even upwards of 9k+ during the OP's first post. It's strange...

But *ahem* on topic, the sight of a small C-class army is indeed terrifying. I can only imagine the terror imposed by an army of Sharpshooters, all perched neatly at high ground.

[ReachH]

Houruck, on February 20 2013 - 03:35 AM, said:

I must stress that the opposing team were the same that we almost defeated without breaking a sweat. And after the turnover our team morale went down to the toilet.

Maybe you just lost. They adapted, and your team didn't. Trying to win in a brawler is not exactly the best showcase of how OP a team of grens and rocketeers are.

[MojoNixon]

Play dirty_  Do you always fire a shot in the air to notify a mech before you ambush him_  This is a game (like any game video and otherwise) about exploiting the weaknesses and mistakes of the opponent.  The other team had better coordination using all the tools at their disposale, why didnt you_  A grouping up of mechs like that is the perfect time to be using EMP- this BS quasi-cavalier attitude of "I shall not use EMP" is silly as all hell.  Use every tool, especially if your being beaten down.

"I'll kill a man in a fair fight, or if I think he;s going to start a fair fight" - Jayne Cobb

Edited by MojoNixon, February 20 2013 - 03:55 AM.