66 replies to this topic

[ShadowWarg]

I'm not a pro, nowhere near the skill level needed, but I think I am above average. My question is why is it that I can win about 75% of my 1v1 duel (50% against high skill players) but I don't do so hot in teams games_ My game win % is 50% (+/- 0.5) exactly and has remained so since the beginning of open beta. I'm I bad player because I don't seem to have a meaningful effect on my teams matches_

[Rajhin]

ShadowWarg, on October 06 2013 - 01:52 PM, said:

I'm I bad player_

Actually everyone has their own strong and weak points. I know many players that are good in DMduelling but sucks hardly in using their team teamplay. Nothing new in that.

Edited by Rajhin, October 06 2013 - 02:01 PM.

[Charcoal]

Good team play is more than a bunch of solo players sort of pointing in the same direction.

[Sylhiri]

You can only carry so much.

[Onebullit]

Rajhin, on October 06 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

ShadowWarg, on October 06 2013 - 01:52 PM, said:

Do you want to show me your muscles and that beautiful smile _

What are you doing guys, what it this discussion about _

[ShadowGTR]

Sylhiri, on October 06 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

You can only carry so much.

^ This.

My "win" percentage is like 49.3, yet in random games joined from quick match, I often top the leaderboards. I just came off a TDM today where I outscored everyone, including the opposing team. Yet, my team still lost.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Team-based matches rely on everyone, not just you. As long as you are scoring well and not getting killed often, that's all you really can do in random Team-based matches.

Edit: If you really want to start testing yourself and seeing where you stack up, try participating in some of the organized scrim events (see the Community Scrims by Exeon). Some of the best show up there, and it's a great way to learn and practice.

Edited by ShadowGTR, October 06 2013 - 02:42 PM.

[ReachH]

I started typing some things, but then realized I don't anything about how you play, or even what I'm talking about.

So rather than some vague prose on FPS combat in Hawken, here are some things that I practice.

• Whenever you look at the radar, imagine in your head a virtual, 3D map, and where the bad guys are.
  
  Then you can see where to move to be the most annoying, depending on the class you play. Raiders want to pick off people who are slightly isolated, reapers want to have a good angle on as many people as possible, etc.
  
  The more you play, the more you watch the radar, the more complicated thoughts you will have about where to move, and how fast your enemy can respond, or where your teammates will move, or who will win on that side versus who will win on the otherside. Then position yourself accordingly to deliver the maximum amount of butt-hurt. Seriously, reading the radar and responding is the 'Art of Hawken'. The better player, the more information they will gather from a glance at the radar than a panic'd average player. Same with minimap watching in Starcraft, or hearing noises during a quake duel, or listening to the team radio during a CS match.
  
  
  
• Whenever you are in combat, force yourself to glance at your minimap often.
  
  Even though you are focused on the battle, you should know roughly where your team is, how many bad guys there are, where they are coming from, the time the battle has been going on, and the time till dead enemies can respawn cross map and come back. This will help you to decide which side to favor as you maneuver around in your 1v1, so you don't get trapped and killed off.
  
  
  
• Never miss. Seriously. This is the big one.
  
  Everytime you miss, you should feel a pang of guilt, and have a mental screenshot of the moment you missed, and where you should have been aiming/leading. You should know just when to land a guaranteed secondary. You should know if a player prefers hopping out of corners or dodging. You should know if someone favors a right or left dodge/r-dodge (most people are right dodgers but left L-dodgers, and right R-dodgers; e.g. people favor the Shift-D). You should be able to nail people as close to the cooldown as you can while guaranteeing a hit. You should be able to fire a TOW so they dodge into it if they are facing you at medium range and anticipating it. You should know which players are bad that you can aim directly, and which you have to wait a second. You should be able to lure out their dodge with EOC, and then smack them with your secondary, conversely you should know when you are close enough to hit them with a secondary and make them eat primary+item after they dodge. Every RevGL shot should be aimed and clicked, every other reflak shot should be centred and clicked, every slug should hit, every EOC volley should be led and traced, not just spammed and prayed for. For every bit of heat you generate, you should aim to do some damage
  
  My GL accuracy is at 70-80%, and I spam across map a ton. My EOC is at 60% and I spam corners all the time. I played slug reaper today, and topped the charts, but my accuracy was at 60-70%, which is terrible by some other people's standards, who main Reaper/SS. I wouldn't even consider myself good at those two anymore - targets are even a lot faster in high level play - but I know that with a week or two of practice, I can get some of that speed, fluidity, and accuracy back. Because I hold myself to a standard of 'it is not okay to miss', and that 'everything should be executed as quickly as possible' (and fall short all the time - that is the point, to strive ).
  
  
  
• Hit a secondary before you actually start a fight.
  
  Good players put you at a disadvantage before you even see them. Great players alpha strike you as you walk around, and drive you into the red with their follow-up after you panic and r-dodge instinctively. And then just when you think you are safe because they are far away, a grenade blows up in your face (see point 6). Preemptive damage will turn a potentially drawn-out 1v1 into a quick kill, allowing you to assist a nearby 2v2 and overpower the team.
  
  
  
• Don't do clean up.
  
  if there are just a few low hp enemies, and you are not the closest, start getting into good position, or find some chunkier targets, or even shoot a TOW across the map at a corner and detonate. You'll be surprised how often you hit something and start the next 4v3/ 5v5/ whatever with a team 100hp advantage. If you do have to clean up, be a cool guy and begin turning around before you even detonate your killing TOW/GL. Bonus points if you're already aiming at the next guy because you were sure that he was gonna walk over an EOC puck on the way out.
  
  
  
• Long range it.
  
  You see an enemy boosting in the distance_ Your first instinct shouldn't be to chase, but to fire your secondary at the next gap he will appear at. And then chase/cycle targets. Great players do significant damage from across the map. Even if you don't hit, you make it known that the bad guys have to play safely, and this limits their mobility. This is something that becomes very prominent in high-level TDMs.
  
  
  
• Mind game it.
  
  In an isolated 1v1_ do your team a favor and finish it quickly and aggressively. Boost up to a corner and stop short to lure out a secondary. They figured that out_ Boost all the way out, and then dodge and fire to trade a direct hit on them, for a glancing hit on you. Change the pace of the 1v1. Is it a chaotic and fast 1v1_ Then suddenly stop and disappear off radar and then use the fake boost out. Is it a slow peekaboo_ Then randomize and boost-then dodge out, or hop, get in their face all of a sudden. Against good players_ Be random and change the pace.
  
  
  
• Know how, and when, to get around maps.
  
  Enemy team pushing across the Prosk bridge_ if you haven't been noticed/ aren't in the main battle, then wait till they cross the middle and climb up to do damage from behind/side.
  On Origin you can float around off the bridge to hit the side areas where people always like to repair. You can also float around the side of the AA - vulnerable, but you can get a free secondary/alpha strike before falling to the mid level.
  You can traverse gaps quicker by dodging off the edge and floating, like on frontline to go from AA->bridge. Or prosk to get from bridge->building.
  
  
  
• Drop that repair charge often.
  
  If it's not on cooldown, then it isn't earning you extra HP, extra engagement time, and extra damage over the course of a match.
  
  
  
• Don't repair every time.
  
  Do you need 620 HP to jump in and help out in a 3v2_ No_ then don't do it. As long as you can eat a secondary, that is pretty much full combat effectiveness. If you are eating too much damage then back off a bit, but don't disengage. Let your ally take some damage, be aware of positioning. Is the enemy focused on you_ Then play conservative and lead him around pillars and walk into your shots while your teammates pound him for getting tunnel vision.
  
  
  
• And most importantly, know when not to be daring.
  
  If the teams are evenly matched, then most of what I told you does not even apply! Focus on doing more damage long-med range, taking little in return, and boosting to wherever an ally is at a disadvantage. Bide your time, and wait for that killer opportunity when you can boost into action, appear at a clever place, and carve the enemy team into two.
  Did critical damage and some guy is running away but you are too far away to chase_ Use the new 5v6 advantage to boost to the bridge and flank, getting some nice shots behind their cover and forcing them to run a bit.

Like I said, once you know how to play the game fully (e.g. are an above average player), then the game is not about mistakes, but about opportunity. The more you play, the more opportunities you can incorporate into your standard play. Then the more ridiculously scary you seem

Having Impact in a team game is what you are asking about, and its how you can get a win instead of just scoring highly (consequently, you'll score even higher).

Full disclosure, my win% before ascension was 75-80%, and right now it is 66%. I don't know if that is good or not, but this is what I do to maintain it.

Of course sometimes you just have to YOLOSWAGMÜNSTER it up, dive in, and fuzzy bunny the first two A-Classes you see. You know, to keep everyone on their toes D:

Edited by ReachH, October 06 2013 - 04:08 PM.

[solarflareTM]

[LONEDEADWOLF]

Think of yourself as such and so should it be.

[ShindaOkami]

Go to a mirror and ask the person in it if they did their best. If the answer is yes, then that person is a great player.

[eth0]

[Aims]

eth0, on October 06 2013 - 05:21 PM, said:

Lol, I'm mates with the guys who made that I used to go see that particular guy's band play all the time too, they are broken up now though. So weird seeing it now as a .gif

[OmegaNull]

Happens. Play more and you will get better.

[Leonhardt]

"A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~Bruce Lee

[FuryMonster]

A wise man once said  
-FuryMonster

[Xtratega]

I'm a bad pilot
I try to be better
Then it hit me
Nope
Cry
Wait, I canz strategy
Try
Yeah

Wait, -random tow-
Score kill

Game over.

Bad player is best player.

The end.

[FuryMonster]

Xtratega, on October 06 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

I'm a bad pilot
I try to be better
Then it hit me
Nope
Cry
Wait, I canz strategy
Try
Yeah

Wait, -random tow-
Score kill

Game over.

Bad player is best player.

The end.

best story I've ever read 10/10 would read again

[ShadowWarg]

Thanks for the guide ReachH I got 1 and 2 down no problem, the problem is the other 9.

Edited by ShadowWarg, October 06 2013 - 08:13 PM.

[OmegaNull]

Practice makes perfect. I have played pretty much every day since Feb.

[angryhampster]

ShadowWarg, on October 06 2013 - 08:09 PM, said:

Thanks for the guide ReachH I got 1 and 2 down no problem, the problem is the other 9.

i see the problem now.

when you look at the bigger picture, you see it more as an obstacle, therefore, taking away you from the true vision.   it's attitude and perspective that determines a good player or not.  

i know that i suck, but because i believe in myself, and i want to win, i'm at 70% win rate...    of course, i have good allies, but 70% win rate is a good  number for team death match and missile assult.