21 replies to this topic

[SlugBug]

So, I haven't gotten to play too much in the last few weeks, but one thing that is blaring to me is the EMP vs. Shield issue.  I have always liked both items since they add a bit of chaos to the games and add a layer of challenge that is a lot of fun.   However, since the update the EMP seems a bit OP since it can now not only negate a shield, but also still cause the original system overload.  Not sure why the devs went two steps forward with this one, maybe to just test us.  

Mostly, I utilize a shield as a last-second defense so I can survive (while at low health) in battle a bit longer and maybe turn the tables on my enemy.  Since my health is already low when I drop the shield, I expect to have a chance to attack my oncoming enemy/enemies, but then an EMP takes down my shield; which if this is all it did, I'd have the chance to try and dodge my way out with my weapons blaring full force.  But with the current EMP, I'm left not only with little health and now no shield and no weapons, and most likely...DEAD.  

Anyone else feel like the EMP should just take down the shield and not also disable the mech behind it.

This post is already running long, I'm sure others have similar situations where the EMP has now left them feeling useless; please share your thoughts.

[Nvain]

I hadn't actually noticed nor read anywhere that the EMP now affects shields as well... Where did you get that info from_
I've played a little today and it didn't happen to me...
Anyway, yes it's silly to also deactivate the mech inside the shield... Although realistic I'm afraid

[CounterlogicMan]

To sort of counter your point. I think this change was excellent. In my opinion it was always a downfall that the emp did not disable shields. You shouldn't be able to just throw down an extra 180-300 hp in a stationary (or moving if you throw it on a mech) position without some sort of risk/counter other than just raw damage. The emp provides that balance. It allows you to penalize players who try and use shields to win button their ways out of fights. You punish players for getting greedy with shield play by hitting them with the emp, trade offensive item for defensive item. Setting the players back on even footing, rewarding the player who more effectively used their item/positioning of item.

Keep in mind that you are not auto emp'd if you are in a shield when it is emp'd. It depends on the size of your shield and the level of the emp. Higher level emps have a larger radius, so a mkIII emp will emp you in a mkI shield no matter where you are in the shield (unless you are outside the opposite side of it, hint hint if you see emp coming at your shield either dodge or walk out the other end). However a MkI emp will only emp a few meters into the mkI shield potentially leaving you unscathed depending on your position.

Try embracing the change. Get creative with shield/emp usage.

Edited by CounterlogicMan, December 14 2013 - 09:17 AM.

[FakeName]

EMP, because offensive is always better than defensive.

Also, you want kills, so move your bud into the fire of death and come back alive with help of the EMP!

[PhysicsCrime]

EMP should take down shields but it should not also EMP the person inside.

[SlugBug]

Though I believe you missed my point in your first paragraph, thanks Counter for clarifying the effect of the EMP.  I am all for the EMP disabling the shield itself.  I just think it's a step too far maybe to have the EMP not lose some effectiveness upon the collision.  Perhaps a slight tweak (nerf) could be made to the AOE inside the shield perimeter.  Regardless of the current real mechanic of the EMP only having the AOE from the point of collision, the actual in-game feel is that it travels through the shield and disables your mech as if the shield wasn't even there.  The data doesn't always reveal the actual experience in game.  

I will embrace this change as a fun challenge as with every other game mechanic implemented thus far..... or while it lasts.  But that's not going to discourage me from at least letting the devs know that things are a bit out of balance here and could definitely be tweaked to retain a bit more fun gameplay.  

Nvain, on December 14 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

Anyway, yes it's silly to also deactivate the mech inside the shield... Although realistic I'm afraid

I don't think any of us are going to pretend this game or its weapons are perfect simulations.  Reality merely serves as a frame of reference to help base our initial expectations.  Let's not go there.

[Nvain]

SlugBug, on December 14 2013 - 10:46 PM, said:

I don't think any of us are going to pretend this game or its weapons are perfect simulations.  Reality merely serves as a frame of reference to help base our initial expectations.  Let's not go there.

What I meant was that realism, in this situation, might be the reason the devs took the decision they took. I'm not saying that Hawken was/is/should be a simulation, however when comparing the new effect of the EMP to other mechanics in the game, it is possible that they wanted it to be a little more plausible.
But okay, I'm wrong and you're right - good talk.

[SlugBug]

Ha, yeah, thanks for the cookie points.

[CounterlogicMan]

There are a lot of factors that could be at play in game when you are experiencing what you say. EMPs seemingly disregarding shields that is. It is most likely a case of your shield collapsing from incoming fire right before the EMP hits, or someone really likes to hit your shield with mkII and mkIII EMPs. I haven't experienced EMPs passing through my shield but I have experienced TOWs and grenades somehow magically finding their ways inside, so I am inclined to at least somewhat believe you if you say it has happened.

[Highchu]

Nvain, on December 14 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

I hadn't actually noticed nor read anywhere that the EMP now affects shields as well... Where did you get that info from_
I've played a little today and it didn't happen to me...
Anyway, yes it's silly to also deactivate the mech inside the shield... Although realistic I'm afraid

Its stated in the EMP description under game guide, not sure if this was changed recently or not though.

Quote

The EMP item is a projectile that temporarily disables the weapons and electronic systems of mechs in the affected area for a short time, plus turrets and deployed equipment caught in the affected area. The EMP shutdown can be countered by the Battery Charge countermeasure.

I use shield all the time and even when I it gets hit with an EMP I don't often get disabled as well. The shield has a big radius so just stand closer towards the back and you should be less likely of getting hit. Items have always disrupt balance and the very ability of being able to shut down anything is very powerful, but its still avoidable and the cooldown is long. You still have the option to use Countermeasures if its a real problem and they generally aren't that fast so if you see it coming just dodge appropriately

[PhysicsCrime]

CounterlogicMan, on December 15 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

There are a lot of factors that could be at play in game when you are experiencing what you say. EMPs seemingly disregarding shields that is.

Nope.  It happens all the time immediatly after deploying a shield with no other fire hitting it.

[SlugBug]

I'm glad to see some good discussion on this.  I really appreciate the advice on how to avoid getting hit by the EMP aoe inside the shield, and it's definitely something we can all try to implement in battle.  Though, I gotta say things are already pretty hectic without having to also remember exactly where to stand inside the shield.  This is why it would be helpful for the shield to cut down the aoe a bit; while this may seem the same as what is now in place, I believe it to be quite a nice fine tuning that would really finalize the shield vs. EMP interaction.

Highchu, on December 15 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

...and they generally aren't that fast so if you see it coming just dodge appropriately

Thanks.... generally good advice to dodge things that you see coming

A lot of people are using the EMP super close up, which negates the speed being an issue as it hits so quickly it's hard to dodge.  Luckily the aoe keeps them from getting too close.  But I digress...

Edited by SlugBug, December 15 2013 - 12:42 PM.

[OmegaNull]

The fact that shields can now be taken down with EMP is a welcomed changed. A HIGHLY welcomed change.

[JeffMagnum]

I've found that if you stand at the far back of your shield relative to an enemy, you won't have your mech shut down when they pop the shield with an EMP. Doing that has definitely saved me more than a few times.

[LordTemujin]

If you have spent any time in games with me you already know my opinion on shields, they are garbage antifun and currently EVERYBODY carries one to use as an I WIN! button.

This is pretty whatever, what I find upsetting is that if they throw down multiple shields i.e overlapping shields and you hit it with an emp, only a single shield will drop. Now you counter by saying how often will this happen_

Every game.

Every Fuzzy Bunny game.

In any given TDM there will be a minimum of 9 shields in use. Maybe two people will run EMP. If EMP is operating how it is written up, how it should operate I should be able to punish people who pull the LULSHIELD INTO SHIELD INTO ANOTHER SHIELD fuzzy bunny that most TDM's are becoming. Instead I throw it out, it drops weapons on those inside all the overlapping shields and....drops one shield ending at that. How this makes sense I dont even know.

This went kinda ranty, On topic: if EMP dealt with accumulated shields the way it should I would 100% be ok with it not shutting down a mechs systems, but currently it responds like a crippled monkey flinging its own fuzzy bunny around either by design or misfunction.

[PhysicsCrime]

EMP is far more of a fun ruiner than shields are.

[LordTemujin]

PhysicsCrime, on December 16 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:

EMP is far more of a fun ruiner than shields are.

I would put 20 bucks down right now if shield was removed from the game you would see ALOT less EMP's

most people I know started running EMP specifically because of how prevalent and fuzzy bunny annoying shields are

[JeffMagnum]

Am I the only person that actually likes when an enemy throws a shield down, at least when they're at CQC distances_ Shields are absurdly easy to take from the vast majority of people (side dodge in->start firing with primary->fire with secondary/primary when the enemy tries to create distance by leaving) and give quite a large advantage once stolen. Obviously they're annoying in some situations when used by competent opponents, but I find myself benefiting from them a good portion of the time against randoms regardless of who puts one down.

[PhysicsCrime]

JeffMagnum, on December 17 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

Am I the only person that actually likes when an enemy throws a shield down, at least when they're at CQC distances_ Shields are absurdly easy to take from the vast majority of people

This.

[HubbaBubba9849]

Ever since the EMP buff, I've seen more of them now than ever before.

People were already complaining about EMP being OP, so they buff them. Wunderbar.