10 replies to this topic

[Delta_56]

Well, one thing has been on my mind ever since purchasing my new Scout: "How do I play this thing_"

Ever since I unlocked the speed demon that I call the Berserker, I've been very happy playing Hawken. My strategy relies HEAVILY on dodging, and with mid-air dodging unlocked, I find fights to be rather easy when faced with a heavy or normal mech. When faced with a lightweight, I find myself challenged, often because they aren't that big of a target when compared to the bigger ones.

I've seen the Scout in action. More often than not, I'm facing off against it. I tend to win most of the fights, but they were often empty victories because I had a teammate nearby most of the time. Now, I did mention I win "most" of the fights, and with outside influence. That's because they give me a run for my money, and teammates that notice this, come to support me.

I found my face-offs, when one on one, to be more or less even. They would often end with me as the victor, then I lose the next time, then I win, etc. What I'm looking for is a mech that can dodge just as good as the Berserker, and deal damage when in a CQB environment, since that is what my play-style puts me in: CQB. For a while, i've looked at the Scout, with its flak and tow, and wondered just how much of a powerhouse I can be, especially with that fuel restoration ability.

Well, when I finally got the scout, I took it for a test run like I did with my infiltrator in offline, and I can honestly say, I was disappointed.

The fuel reserves on the scout are, if I remember correctly, half of those on the Berserker. When I would engage in my typical Berserker maneuvers (begin battle, dodge, quickly dash forward, jump into a mid-air dodge, land, dodge, close distance, more or less like this), I found myself at bingo fuel before I got to the mid-air dodge. As stated above, my strategy relies HEAVILY on dodging, as I tend to use the fastest mechs available in order to avoid damage and dish out the most. With the Scout, I felt like I downgraded from the Berserker. Yes, it is used in hit and run techniques, but that is not how I play, and definitely not how I'm used to playing. I only flee when the situation starts getting bad, such as reinforcements, lucky shot, etc.

I'm a level 15 pilot, with a maximized Berserker and about a 2.61 k/d on it. I'm not looking to replace him, but I am looking to try out a new mech and see how it operates when compared to my trusty friend. I haven't given up on the Scout, I just don't know how to approach him. If strategies/tips can be offered, as well as tuning recommendations, I would greatly appreciate it!

Feel free to ask about my Berserker's tuning, my high-risk strategy, etc. I'll gladly provide it for re-adjustment!

[aToastfan]

The strategy you use on the Beserker won't work on the Scout, as you discovered, because they are different mechs and require very different strategies.

One difference is in the damage type, where the beserker does sustained damage the scout does burst, which significantly alters the effective tactics. The scout also has the least armour of all mechs and is the fastest. I'd personally never fly with the scout, because it eats the little fuel you do have for manoeuvring. Corners are your friend with burst weapons, playing for line of sight with your speed is key, ideally you can out-dodge the other mechs. Also your ability has a pretty short cool-down and can be used for that extra dodge or short boost in chase during a high velocity situation.

As I understand it the scout is currently one of the strongest mechs in the game, Flak+TOW is a powerful weapon combo.

Basically, work at it and adapt how you play to fit the scout, because playing it like a beserker will not work. Every mech in this game requires different tactics, different strategy, what's effective on one will rarely be entirely as effective as it is on another.

Edited by aToastfan, December 17 2013 - 07:04 PM.

[Highchu]

The Scout is alot more focused on mobility and requires better use of cover and dodge mechanics to stay alive. Unlike the Berserker you won't have Air Dynamics and your fuel tank will be very small so you should avoid air combat. The lack of fuel is somewhat made up by your ability "Fuel Reserves" which is best saved for hasty retreats or reaching destinations faster. The Scout is the absolue fastest mech in the game with some of the highest "Hydraulics", "Boost Thrusters" and "Suspension" of any mech. Make use of this to get around slower mechs, deal massive burst damage and get away.

The two best weapons are the "Flak Cannon" for massive CQC burst and the "Heat Cannon" for better midrange versatility with good splash damage. The "Heat Cannon" has a high learning curve, but if you can push through it offers alot more utility all ranges compared to the "Flak"/"Mini-Flak". Some players like the "Mini-Flak" which is more of a sustained CQC weapon. Its good in smaller maps where cover is limited and you can fire continuously on them in the open.

The best internals are "Fuel Converter", "Deflectors", and "Failsafe". Obviously "Fuel Converter" is a must have for a mech with such a small fuel tank and "Deflectors" is good with all the boosting and dodging Scout make. "Failsafe" is better if you decide to use the "Heat Cannon" to reduce self inflicted splash damage and will allow you to hug enemy players. For healing I like to use an "Advanced Repair Kit".

Tuning you want to max out "Weapon Loader" for maximum dps,"Booster Thrusters" and "Hydraulics" for added mobility. Split the rest of the points into "Armor" and "Generator" as you see fit.

Edited by Highchu, December 17 2013 - 07:31 PM.

[comic_sans]

Watch your radar.  Just stare at it whenever you can't see someone right in front of you.  If the radar says someone is where your tow can hit them but you can't see them, fire a tow!  This is kinda key to being a scout; be exposed only long enough to do damage, and try to get close to and behind your target if you can.

A shield helps; hold down the item button and you can throw it surprisingly far, giving you a safe bubble to boost for if you're closing on a longer range mech.  This also often forces other players to come to you, inside the shield, giving you an advantage since you have their walk-up time to shoot at them and they're in your flak's sweet spot once they're in the shield and probably 80% dead anyway.  If you see a health orb on the field anywhere you think you're gonna fight someone, plop your shield right on it for even more survivability.

A det helps, if you do heat.  Heat has lower DPS, so I pack a det to make up for the slower kills.  Also makes for an absurd alpha strike, which is the very first attack of a fight.  Firing heat (or flak)+tow+det all at once can knock an a-class down to half health and make them paaaaaniiiiiic.  Pack a failsafe for this unless you're super confident in your ability to range out your opponent.

Repair orbs and internals to maximize their effectiveness can be stupid broken; drop a shield and an orb with a repair kit and an extractor and your enemy will be bewildered and then dead at how fast you healed up in a fast-paced situation.  If you pack internals for this, it's even more fun & effective to steal enemies' orbs.  Standing between a dead enemy's orb and an item orb while repairing can get you back up to 100% in less than 5 seconds.

Wait til your quicker enemies dodge to fire your tow; they're guaranteed to be far less mobile for the next second or so.  Don't ever miss with your primary, you can't afford to take shots.

Don't waste tuning points on radar; as a scout, you have the biggest base radar to start and those points are probably better spent elsewhere unless you feel exposed without knowing everything about the battlefield.  I'm a fan of maxing hydraulics, suspensions and boost thrusters, and dumping all the rest into armor.  Hydraulics is surprisingly useful; max it out and your forward boost acceleration is almost as fast as a side dodge, and every bit as useful.

Save your ability for fleeing or halfway through a fight with someone better than you so you can keep dodging.

Finally, do the boost hop.  You've probably noticed that after letting off the thruster button, you have to wait a sec for your mech to land to be able to use your weapons again.  If you tap space as soon as you're done boosting instead, your weapons will be ready instantly.  This and the super acceleration from hydraulics lets you pursue everything but a fleeing raider while doing solid damage, though if you use a flak weapon, it is far less accurate in the air.

Good luck!

Edited by comic_sans, December 17 2013 - 09:23 PM.

[pseulak]

comic_sans, on December 17 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

Repair orbs and internals to maximize their effectiveness can be stupid broken; drop a shield and an orb with a repair kit and an extractor and your enemy will be bewildered and then dead at how fast you healed up in a fast-paced situation.  If you pack internals for this, it's even more fun & effective to steal enemies' orbs.  Standing between a dead enemy's orb and an item orb while repairing can get you back up to 100% in less than 5 seconds.

^ do that.

I've also found that the radar scanner is crazy good for corner play since if you can force the fight to be over a small distance, you'll know exactly when to fire your TOW as someone is coming to the corner and not boosting. You can also blast a few charged Heat shots to frontload a little splash on them.

You can do pretty will in the Zerker out in the open and jumping into the thick of a fight and pressing the action. Scout is a lot more about waiting for good opportunities and then anticipating where mechs will be in relation to you a couple seconds from now. It is very helpful to learn exactly how far mechs move when side dodging so you can fire that TOW where they will be when the dodge finishes.

The small fuel tank is very difficult to manage at first, mostly because you can side dodge twice in rapid succession and be out of fuel. Make your dodges count.

[Inkululeko]

The scout now, if you upgrade the fuel all the way, is a bit OP. I mean, I've seen people zoom from one side of the map to the other in 4 seconds. The scout now seems a bit too fast.

[FenixStryk]

Disregarding Mech size, Hawken has two functional types of Mechs: Burst-damage Mechs (e.g. Flak, Heat, EOC), and Sustained-damage Mechs (e.g. automatics, Rev-GL). The reason you prefer the Berserker is because your current approach to combat is better suited to Hawken's sustained Mechs, which generally want to expose themselves to their enemy as much as possible, long enough for their bigger HP and DPS numbers to outpace initial burst. This is not to say that Burst Mechs are bad (if anything, the reverse is true), only that you will need to significantly alter your mindset if you want to use Burst Mechs, particularly the Scout since it has the least leeway for mistakes -- it has the smallest HP pool and the smallest Fuel Tank.

Burst Mechs such as the Scout win by using cover intelligently to limit exposure to the enemy as much as possible, such that the only times you see your enemy are when you are pulling the trigger. By doing so, the result is that your... "effective DPS" in the engagement, excluding downtime (hiding, moving, etc.), is much higher than what Sustained Mechs can deal. In a manner of speaking, proper use of cover allows you to "fire" your Flak+TOW every 0.3 seconds, albeit in real time those 0.3 second instances are spread over about a dozen seconds. I think anyone would agree that dealing 900 damage per second* summarily trumps anything a Berserker can do.


The Scout may be a tough sell for learning how to play Burst Mechs, so if you are interested in learning the style with a somewhat more forgiving Mech then you may want to consider the Bolt Raider or Flak Brawler. The Raider is almost as fast and has a similar weapon (the Bolt, a mix between burst and sustained), while the Brawler has the Scout's exact weapon setup but trades an egregious amount of maneuverability for the bare minimum in favor of the highest health pool in the game. While there are differences between all three, the mindset you'll need for them is more similar than what you'll find is necessary inside the Berserker.

The replies above me better cover how to play the Scout in specific, so I'll avoid touching on it. I don't have too much to add to their advice considering I greatly prefer C Class Mechs, most of which are Sustained.

[dorobo]

if you want something more similar to a berserker try an infiltrator with an automatic weapon. A grenade launcher instead of a tow might be an interesting change you were looking for.

[Delta_56]

Wow, I really wish I could reply to all of the posts. I've been experimenting with the advice provided, and found that most of the techniques to work nicely.

comic_sans, on December 17 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

Watch your radar.  Just stare at it whenever you can't see someone right in front of you.  If the radar says someone is where your tow can hit them but you can't see them, fire a tow!  This is kinda key to being a scout; be exposed only long enough to do damage, and try to get close to and behind your target if you can.

Repair orbs and internals to maximize their effectiveness can be stupid broken; drop a shield and an orb with a repair kit and an extractor and your enemy will be bewildered and then dead at how fast you healed up in a fast-paced situation.  If you pack internals for this, it's even more fun & effective to steal enemies' orbs.  Standing between a dead enemy's orb and an item orb while repairing can get you back up to 100% in less than 5 seconds.

Wait til your quicker enemies dodge to fire your tow; they're guaranteed to be far less mobile for the next second or so.  Don't ever miss with your primary, you can't afford to take shots.

Don't waste tuning points on radar; as a scout, you have the biggest base radar to start and those points are probably better spent elsewhere unless you feel exposed without knowing everything about the battlefield.  I'm a fan of maxing hydraulics, suspensions and boost thrusters, and dumping all the rest into armor.  Hydraulics is surprisingly useful; max it out and your forward boost acceleration is almost as fast as a side dodge, and every bit as useful.

Save your ability for fleeing or halfway through a fight with someone better than you so you can keep dodging.

Finally, do the boost hop.  You've probably noticed that after letting off the thruster button, you have to wait a sec for your mech to land to be able to use your weapons again.  If you tap space as soon as you're done boosting instead, your weapons will be ready instantly.  This and the super acceleration from hydraulics lets you pursue everything but a fleeing raider while doing solid damage, though if you use a flak weapon, it is far less accurate in the air.

Good luck!

I had no idea that "Hydraulics"  would influence your forward boost. I'm actually interested in seeing how that works out, now. I do, however, boost hop quite a bit, but more as a way of disorienting the enemy mech. I never noticed that my weapons come back online immediately after jumping. I'm very conservative with my heat generation, though, so missing shots shouldn't be to much of a problem.

The radar has never been more than a tool for me to see where the action is. I just figure out the general direction, and then walk from there. You nailed me right on the other tuning spots, though. I do think that mobility should be a priority in the tuning process, as being a brick with legs doesn't really appeal to me. I find staying alive that much longer to be more effective, at least for me, than dedicating to weapons loader and armor.

FenixStryk, on December 19 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

Disregarding Mech size, Hawken has two functional types of Mechs: Burst-damage Mechs (e.g. Flak, Heat, EOC), and Sustained-damage Mechs (e.g. automatics, Rev-GL). The reason you prefer the Berserker is because your current approach to combat is better suited to Hawken's sustained Mechs, which generally want to expose themselves to their enemy as much as possible, long enough for their bigger HP and DPS numbers to outpace initial burst. This is not to say that Burst Mechs are bad (if anything, the reverse is true), only that you will need to significantly alter your mindset if you want to use Burst Mechs, particularly the Scout since it has the least leeway for mistakes -- it has the smallest HP pool and the smallest Fuel Tank.

Burst Mechs such as the Scout win by using cover intelligently to limit exposure to the enemy as much as possible, such that the only times you see your enemy are when you are pulling the trigger. By doing so, the result is that your... "effective DPS" in the engagement, excluding downtime (hiding, moving, etc.), is much higher than what Sustained Mechs can deal. In a manner of speaking, proper use of cover allows you to "fire" your Flak+TOW every 0.3 seconds, albeit in real time those 0.3 second instances are spread over about a dozen seconds. I think anyone would agree that dealing 900 damage per second* summarily trumps anything a Berserker can do.


The Scout may be a tough sell for learning how to play Burst Mechs, so if you are interested in learning the style with a somewhat more forgiving Mech then you may want to consider the Bolt Raider or Flak Brawler. The Raider is almost as fast and has a similar weapon (the Bolt, a mix between burst and sustained), while the Brawler has the Scout's exact weapon setup but trades an egregious amount of maneuverability for the bare minimum in favor of the highest health pool in the game. While there are differences between all three, the mindset you'll need for them is more similar than what you'll find is necessary inside the Berserker.

The replies above me better cover how to play the Scout in specific, so I'll avoid touching on it. I don't have too much to add to their advice considering I greatly prefer C Class Mechs, most of which are Sustained.

You actually helped me A LOT with telling me the different play-styles. I had sort of an idea of how weapons work in Hawken, but you went pretty deep into explaining how the sustained-style fit my combat approach more than the burst-style. After reading yours and several other posts, I realized that the game plan I signed up for is the complete opposite of what I had intended. Thanks for the comparison! I'll give the burst-family a try (or, already have) and let you guys know how I did.

Thanks for all the advice, guys! I greatly appreciate it!

[ThatDamnedBoedy]

The berserker is a great mech...one of my favorites.  I have found the trick with it is simply to stay mobile...find a target under some pressure and turn on the damage amp ability and charge.  It is very good for putting pressure on entrenched positions in siege along with a grenadier and the sound of that point d winding up puts fear into many hearts!

The scout will 8/10 times get more kills since it can alpha-strike through most mechs armor faster than the point-d tears it down.  The berserker actually does well if played defensively as well.  Use the assault rifle and dodge a lot...short bursts of power and make people run into you as you retreat towards a nest of turrets that have been dropped.  Just keep dodging.

I've seen some pilots use/abuse air dodging quite well in the berserker.  it can be quite the marauder even though it has no ability to alpha.  It is a mid to short range fighter.  quite durable and speedy with a good fuel tank.

[RedVan]

ThatDamnedBoedy, on December 20 2013 - 11:35 AM, said:

The scout will 8/10 times get more kills since it can alpha-strike through most mechs armor faster than the point-d tears it down.

Well see, that's just a terrible comparison because you're comparing 2 weapons vs 1 weapon.  May I kindly recommend a comparison that would be worth while to consider_