27 replies to this topic

[BlindHaze]

To all Breach-Preds, let's analyze this primary.

I'm completely fine with how Breacher is right now, except for its heat generation without tuning for heatsinks. I think its heat build up per shot should be tweaked a little bit.

I also don't like the idea of increasing its RoF like what other forumers have stated, because doing so will just push heat management to the limit.

[FakeName]

Pred is in general a case for: "OMG MY MECH IS ON FIRE!!"

They could first rework the secondary, because it's playstile is pretty similiar to the EOC. (Though it's meant to be an EOC, it's just boring firing with 2.)

[Zhoyzu]

the only thing that needs tweaking is its secondary and it would be good if they would just increase its fuzzy bunny travel speeds.

breacher would be better if hawken had a decent reticle

[BlindHaze]

Zhoyzu, on January 01 2014 - 04:32 AM, said:

the only thing that needs tweaking is its secondary and it would be good if they would just increase its fuzzy bunny travel speeds.

breacher would be better if hawken had a decent reticle

EOC-P seems to work fine with me. It has good dps, and nice for harrassing. I do agree though that it does not synergize well with stalker.

In my experience, breacher makes pred more than viable, you just need to be good at aiming. The problem i'm experiencing is in certain clutch situations, i find myself overheating. I only fire my EOC-P when im certain it'll hit my target or to plant a mine close to an enemy and manually deto, otherwise it's mainly charged breacher shots.

Edited by BlindHaze, January 01 2014 - 07:33 AM.

[MrWilpon]

BlindHaze, on December 31 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

I'm completely fine with how Breacher is right now, except for its heat generation without tuning for heatsinks. I think its heat build up per shot should be tweaked a little bit.

I would prefer a very slight damage increase, it would fit better with the "ambusher" philosophy of the Predator.

Lower heat generation suits better with mechs designed to be in the heart of the battle shooting repeatedly, which is not supposed to be the case with the Pred, especially equipped with its stock/signature weapon.

Edited by MrWilpon, January 08 2014 - 06:38 AM.

[motakudgi]

I've tested all main weapons for predator and can assume that breacher is definetely bad. It's better than EOC Repeater but it's worse than T-32.

breacher as shotgun

• damage: 5 pellets x 10 dmg
  
• fire rate: 1 shot per second
  Considering the pellet spread at mid distance, we can hit 2-3 pellets from 5. That means:
  
• DPS 1m-5m distance: 30-50
  
• DPS 5m-10m distance: 20-30
  
• DPS 10m-20m distance: 0-20

It's easy to hit with breacher shotgun in cqc, but DPS is really low.

breacher as "cqc sniper rifle"

• damage: 1 pellet x 100 dmg
  
• fire rate: 0,5 shots per second (shot cooldown 1 second, charge time 1 second)
  Breacher sniper rifle has 2 disadvantages: it is really hard to place shots in cqc and it has lower dps from range 20m+
  
• DPS 1m-20m: 50
  
• DPS 20m+: 30 - 10

It is hard to hit with breacher sniper rifle and it is uneffective at mid range.

The only advantage of breacher is penetrating shot: you can shoot through Blockades, Shields and other mechs - friendly or hostile.

EOC Repeater looks just like breacher sniper rifle - it has 108 damage on 6 pellets. But it is worse because of:

• 3 times more heat generation
  
• slower projectile travel
  
• It has lower fire rate (1 charged shot per 3 seconds)
  
• destroying your own mines
  
• It makes maximum damage from 6 pellets, not from one (hostile can dodge some)
  
• it has no penetration

T-32
damage: 8 pellets x 10 dmg
fire rate: 1,33 shots per second ( 1 shot per ~0,75 seconds)
DPS CQC: 107

Advantages of T-32: it's easier to hit than breacher sniper rifle, it has much more fire rate than breacher shotgun, it has 2-3 times more dps and it has the same overheat.

_________________

Imo, the damage from charged Breacher should be trippled:
250-300 damage in CQC (means 150 dps) - if you actually can hit fast moving targets. DPS of charged breacher should be more than dps of T-32 because of: less fire rate (it means more burst damage due to higher miss cost), harder to hit (no damage spread).

The pellet count for breacher shotgun should be trippled, too:
15 pellets 10 damage each - deals 150 dps in 1m range, and 60-90 dps im 5m-10m range.

Anyway, breacher right now is not the best option for predator.

Edited by motakudgi, January 23 2014 - 03:38 AM.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

Are you sure_  Okay, I admit, using the 'sniper mode' (it's not really a sniper, it sucks at long range) for the breacher in CQC is pretty hard.  It's meant more for mid/mid-close range combat.  I do very well with the Breacher!  Also, the EOC repeater is a very good weapon.  It just has a higher learning curve than some other weapons.

To be honest, the effectiveness of the EOC and the Breacher depends on the user.  Maybe you just aren't using the weapons right.

[motakudgi]

Hijinks_The_Turtle, on January 23 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

Are you sure_  Okay, I admit, using the 'sniper mode' (it's not really a sniper, it sucks at long range) for the breacher in CQC is pretty hard.  It's meant more for mid/mid-close range combat.  I do very well with the Breacher!  Also, the EOC repeater is a very good weapon.  It just has a higher learning curve than some other weapons.

To be honest, the effectiveness of the EOC and the Breacher depends on the user.  Maybe you just aren't using the weapons right.

EOC Repeater is useless against any flying-dodging targets. I had lots of situations, when I had to fight 1v1 against: scouts, infiltrators and reapers.
If they had device internal (dodging in mid-air) - they won every round.
Just look at the thread about this weapon - most people saying the same.

So, unable to hit fast targets in cqc with EOC-R, I returned to Breacher with similar to EOC-R tactics:
charging + aiming -> shooting.
I lost 8 damage per shot (from 108 to 100), but started hitting most targets in cqc and mid range.

And only then I realised: if we use breacher only on mid-close range, why won't we take more efficient weapon_ More dps, more fire rate, easier to hit and same heat generation.

Plz, describe me some situations when breacher is better than T-32 and tell me - what's my mistake in previous post_

Edited by motakudgi, January 30 2014 - 09:51 AM.

[Ker4u]

read title as "Brawler Twerk" was really intrigued

[Lightangel112]

I think the heat on the breacher should be tuned down slightly.
I think the speed of the pucks should be increased slightly also.

There is nothing wrong with breacher imo.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

motakudgi, on January 24 2014 - 01:25 AM, said:

Hijinks_The_Turtle, on January 23 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

Are you sure_  Okay, I admit, using the 'sniper mode' (it's not really a sniper, it sucks at long range) for the breacher in CQC is pretty hard.  It's meant more for mid/mid-close range combat.  I do very well with the Breacher!  Also, the EOC repeater is a very good weapon.  It just has a higher learning curve than some other weapons.

To be honest, the effectiveness of the EOC and the Breacher depends on the user.  Maybe you just aren't using the weapons right.

EOC Repeater is useless against any flying-dodging targets. I had lots of situations, when I had to fight 1v1 against: scouts, infiltrators and reapers.
If they had evasive device internal (dodging in mid-air) - they won every round.
Just look at the thread about this weapon - most people saying the same.

So, unable to hit fast targets in cqc with EOC-R, I returned to Breacher with similar to EOC-R tactics:
charging + aiming -> shooting.
I lost 8 damage per shot (from 108 to 100), but started hitting most targets in cqc and mid range.

And only then I realised: if we use breacher only on mid-close range, why won't we take more efficient weapon_ More dps, more fire rate, easier to hit and same heat generation.

Plz, describe me some situations when breacher is better than T-32 and tell me - what's my mistake in previous post_

1) Breacher's rail shot isn't meant for CQC combat.

2) Breacher's spike shot has less spread than T-32's uncharged shot and more range.

3) Breacher overall has more range than T-32 and can do more damage to a mid-range target than T-32's charged shot.

4) EOC Repeater:  Use it by going a little ahead of what your target's direction of movement is and fire ahead.  The same goes for Infils and Scouts, you fire where they will land and move.

5) T-32 is meant for Predators who like to get up close and personal with charged and uncharged shots, Breacher is meant for mid range while piercing through shields (emphasis on mid) and some close range, EOC Repeater is for area control and isn't for hitting targets in the air (shoot where they land).

6) T-32 isn't for everyone.  Not everyone can use every weapon perfectly when they first pick it up.

7) EOC Pred is the real heat guzzler + you can't detonate them in midair + they have a slow speed unlike EOC Rep's charged shot.

[Kulikov1990]

You want universal mech which will all win_ Such not will! Breacher-average distance, murder wounded. T-32 near distance. EOS-trap. They Are Changed depending on situations.

Edited by Kulikov1990, January 25 2014 - 06:57 AM.

[Onyxmizer]

The only thing I want back is the more pronounced bullet trail. Right now it looks really dinky compared to all the really nice tracers we have now.

@motakudgi: The breacher fits the mech it self much better than the t32 imo. Pred needs to be able to maintain positional advantage, something cqc doesn't provide for a b-class (but it's better now that it's faster. Before you HAD to have a fule converter to keep up with everyone). It's speed might be the only issue, but then again, it's matches with the speed of the mech really well.

I learned how to sneak with t32 and I did really really well, but I became an asset to my team when I learned how to use the breacher. The t32 is, for sure, a good wepon and is very usefull and effective for the pred, but for what the pred is supposed to do, how it best handels on the playing field, it needs the breacher. (of course this depends on the map. Bazzar is not fun imo. too much sniping and team spread).

Scene:

You're stalking, waiting for someone to come by. Someone approches, pop with an eoc and breacher, doge out.
Now they're disoriented.

If they're looking for you (or dumb and flew up) you push in and get a quicker shot off, hopefully you landed a puck or two. They will either run or chase. If they want to follow,  back peddel, breacher shot. Pucks. Pow. gg. Now, if they're still alive, they're running. Maybe they'll try the same fuzzy bunny on you now. Wait for you to follow and play a little peek-a-boo.  If you know what you're doing, you can tank a tiny bit and finish the job. (this is coming from ~ 2k mmr play.

The pred is about attacking when it's the right time to attack. All of it's wepons are made for that, but i've never popped a berserker balloon with an EOC, and I've never gotten anyone on the run with the t32 bolt.

tl;dr -

Edited by Onyxmizer, February 16 2014 - 12:42 PM.

[Sylhiri]

They need to fix the cooldown (for Breacher) when you do a charged shot and a non-charged shot in succession, it is NOT a 2 second CD.

[Onyxmizer]

I always thought that was a feature. It makes a different sound doesn't it_ ...

Edited by Onyxmizer, February 16 2014 - 12:53 PM.

[Stormpuma]

Do you guys even play Pred_ The breacher uncharged, up close, does close to double the damage the charged or uncharged T-32 does. Then again, the breacher outperforms the T-32 in mid range with yet again more damage.

Let's keep going. The breacher blows the T-32 Bolt out of the water at Longe range. I covered all ranges. In every case the Breacher wins evertime. What game are you guys playing___

If you hit your shots with the Breacher, and not spam EoC pred in a panic when it's one on one, you should should win more fights than you lose, especially if you got the drop on them.


My problem is that the T-32 Bolt exists at all in our weapon line-up. It was nerfed into oblivion and now it just sucks compared to the Breacher. Please give us a proper replacement if the T-32 Bolt  is to remain in it's current state.

Edited by Stormpuma, February 17 2014 - 12:37 AM.

[Onyxmizer]

WHat would you replace it with_ Heat cannon might be fun but it would obliterate any pucks on the field, nothing else is really a charge wepon. Vulcan maybe_ That'd be bonkers.

[Stormpuma]

Onyxmizer, on February 18 2014 - 09:15 AM, said:

WHat would you replace it with_ Heat cannon might be fun but it would obliterate any pucks on the field, nothing else is really a charge wepon. Vulcan maybe_ That'd be bonkers.

That's the thing, the Breacher is not a problem and should be our secondary weapon instead of the EOC Pred. The EoC Predator forces us to play a style of play that does not fit this game, especially now.

Forcing players to set traps in, i hope someone will come along and run across one, greatly hinders our ability to contribute to our team. How many times have you laid a trap only for your own teammates to blow it up right before an enemy get's there_

Even worse is that if we lay a trap somewhere, now we are forced to fight any other confrontations with only one weapon or risk destroying our trap. The entire design is GARBAGE!!!!!! I'd be happier if i had the ability to self destruct and 1 shot the mech i took out with me. At least that way i'd be guaranteed a kill.

Trying to use the EOC Predator in cqc is a fuzzy bunny nightmare, especially now that "flying" combat is the new meta.

I cant even count how many games i see players either switch from Pred mid match or the Predator go under 150 in points for the match (Or even 100). No one here can deny it.

Edited by Stormpuma, February 18 2014 - 10:01 AM.

[Timeraider]

Kinda love Breacher.. sure EOC, Breacher and hs secundary can use some tweaks (some good tweaks and some bad) but aside from that.. i snipe sniper-mechs easier then they snipe me,while still maintain enough dmg to come out of stealth as surprise unit and wreck enemies quite nicely

[Lightangel112]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Stormpuma I don't know how you play predator or how other's do, but for me I consistantly see good predator pilots within the top 3 including myself. There isn't a time I don't get kills, if you are seeing this then it's pilot error simply put. You can use the EOC P in CQC you just have to be smart with your shots.[/font]