6 replies to this topic

[Greenvalv]

Someone mentioned that the playstyle trend is gearing more towards players turtling in shields and I've begun to witness this more and more.  Catch someone by surprise and they drop a shield which you have to either suicidally charge at it, run away, drop your own shield and play battle turtles, or nearly overheat yourself to get rid of the shield much less kill the guy inside it.

I remember a time when explosive AOE would penetrate shields.  Dunno when this was changed but it felt pretty balanced to me especially with the introduction of blockades which, well, BLOCK everything.  I feel that it would be more balanced if we saw a return of AOE penetration of shields.  Perhaps by a reduced amount, but have explosive AOE penetrate the shield nonetheless.

Edited by Greenvalv, January 02 2014 - 11:43 AM.

[tek1]

Just get yourself a lvl1 EMP. Not only will it shutdown the shield - it will also hit the guy "turtling" under it most of the times.

[Pure_Amazing]

To be fair though, while this isn't an ideal play style to see in Hawken, the shield itself is waaaaaaaay less powerful than it used to be, they seem to go down fairly quickly now compared to the past. But hey, maybe with some more tweaks we can get back to more fast paced combat, since thats how Hawken is supposed to be played.

[caduceus26]

Greenvalv, on January 02 2014 - 11:42 AM, said:

Someone mentioned that the playstyle trend is gearing more towards players turtling in shields and I've begun to witness this more and more.  Catch someone by surprise and they drop a shield which you have to either suicidally charge at it, run away, drop your own shield and play battle turtles, or nearly overheat yourself to get rid of the shield much less kill the guy inside it.

I remember a time when explosive AOE would penetrate shields.  Dunno when this was changed but it felt pretty balanced to me especially with the introduction of blockades which, well, BLOCK everything.  I feel that it would be more balanced if we saw a return of AOE penetration of shields.  Perhaps by a reduced amount, but have explosive AOE penetrate the shield nonetheless.

tek1, on January 02 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

Just get yourself a lvl1 EMP. Not only will it shutdown the shield - it will also hit the guy "turtling" under it most of the times.

This.

As for blockades, they can be a detriment to the other team when deployed incorrectly.  While they may block you, they also block him and his teammates.  Sometimes his teammates' retreat gets cut off providing easy pickings if you're vigilant or their firing lanes are blocked providing an opportunity for you to retreat as they can't shoot through the blockade.

[JeffMagnum]

Now that EMPs are a hard counter to shields, they have far more utility than they used to, and the high-level item meta has definitely changed to reflect this. I see far more people running EMP MK-I/Repair Charge MK-III than Shield MK-I/Repair Charge MK-III now, but I personally still prefer the shield to an equivalent EMP even though shields are far more fragile than they used to be prior to the EMP change. I don't think shields are really an issue at all right now.

A more effective method than a simple charge to take shields in CQC is to turn, dodge in a way that causes you to face directly at your enemy's side once you get inside of the shield, and then fire with your primary to force them out. This gives you the advantages of minimizing your time outside of  the shield, leaving it intact for you to use against your opponent(s), causing the person you're taking it from to usually take splash damage if they fire their secondary while you're dodging in, and forcing your target to quickly swing around with a dodge (wasting fuel and often resulting in them ending up outside of the shield) if they want to return fire before they take significant damage. Better players can counter it without too many issues, but it works probably 90% of the time against random people.

[caduceus26]

JeffMagnum, on January 02 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

Now that EMPs are a hard counter to shields, they have far more utility than they used to, and the high-level item meta has definitely changed to reflect this. I see far more people running EMP MK-I/Repair Charge MK-III than Shield MK-I/Repair Charge MK-III now, but I personally still prefer the shield to an equivalent EMP even though shields are far more fragile than they used to be prior to the EMP change. I don't think shields are really an issue at all right now.

A more effective method than a simple charge to take shields in CQC is to turn, dodge in a way that causes you to face directly at your enemy's side once you get inside of the shield, and then fire with your primary to force them out. This gives you the advantages of minimizing your time outside of  the shield, leaving it intact for you to use against your opponent(s), causing the person you're taking it from to usually take splash damage if they fire their secondary while you're dodging in, and forcing your target to quickly swing around with a dodge (wasting fuel and often resulting in them ending up outside of the shield) if they want to return fire before they take significant damage. Better players can counter it without too many issues, but it works probably 90% of the time against random people.

Hey! I would never disagree with a top-tier shooter! Especially one that I've tried to learn from (I remember your Brawler videos well)!  However, what if the opponent is sandbagging with a failsafe_  He counters your side move and unloads his secondary plus deto and/or H.E. causing you to rethink and retreat! Ouch!!!  

I've jumped into shields.  Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose.  One thing for sure--the EMP provides the certainty of knowing that the shield is coming down.  You may be able to take advantage or a teammate close by may benefit.  Either way you get the opponent out of that bubble.  This is my counter against turtled up heavies--which seem to be more and more prevalent in my games these days.

[JeffMagnum]

caduceus26, on January 02 2014 - 07:40 PM, said:

However, what if the opponent is sandbagging with a failsafe_  He counters your side move and unloads his secondary plus deto and/or H.E. causing you to rethink and retreat! Ouch!!!

Well yeah, something like that is entirely possible whenever you're trying to get into a shield regardless of how you do it. I was just giving a more efficient method to getting inside them than charging straight ahead and eating the oncoming fire. And for a less practical but much more fun way to take shields from people, it's possible to completely blast someone out if they jump or hover inside the shield and you hit them right with a Det while they're airborne. For some reason Dets have far more knockback than the rest of the weapons and items, especially on mechs in the air.

caduceus26, on January 02 2014 - 07:40 PM, said:

Hey! I would never disagree with a top-tier shooter! Especially one that I've tried to learn from (I remember your Brawler videos well)!

You're free to disagree with me all you want!