30 replies to this topic

[caduceus26]

I've been playing the Raider off and on--more on than off lately as I got bored with the Berserker. I try to play an opportunistic strategy. That means hanging back a bit and whittling away at opponents, pick an opening, get in, do max damage, blitz weakened opponents and retreat to safety if I can.  

I seem not to have a lot of success with charged weapons. I've tried the T32-Bolt several times but the slow fire and shorter range doesn't work well for my play style but heat is more manageable (likely due to slower fire rate). EOC Repeater doesn't do enough damage for me. On the other hand, I am effective with the ReFlak but it heats up like a SOBO. I like the idea of ricocheting flechettes although I don't know how effective they really are.   

My tuning is in weapons Loader, Armour, Boost Thrusters and Hydraulics. I'd really be interested in your thoughts and ideas on the Raider primaries and any other tips for improving Raider play. TIA!

[Beefsweat]

Personally, I lean towards the Reflak as I've been able to squeeze more versatility out of it than any other weapon for the raider. The ricocheting projectiles can be a little wacky and hard to estimate/control at times, but when you get that collision detection just right the ricochet can be very effective at flushing enemies out of cover (especially those who may be trying to repair or flee) for you to blast with a rocket or airburst MIRV from the Corsair. It can also be a somewhat intimidating weapon to be shot at with as it's one of the only weapons that feature actual tracers, and filling up a small space with tons of hot, bouncing flechettes is bad news for anyone involved. The heat generation is a little crazy on the Reflak, heat management is really important though I guess it makes a little sense, as the Reflak is a repurposed Mini-Flak which also has stark heat gen. The T32 really doesn't do it for me, its sustained damage is simply piss-poor and its burst-damage mode takes too long to charge for way too little payoff (seriously, why use the T32 when one could use the Flak Cannon that's superior in almost every way_) and I find the EOC repeater is just an uninteresting and needlessly complex weapon to use, especially on a class that isn't exactly purpose-built for making traps. All of my tuning points go to everything except armor, with the exception of a couple points in armor because 800 is enough for me and my playstyle.

[comic_sans]

I love me some t-32.  Charge it whenever you can't see your enemy, and that's a lot of the time if you're dancing with an A-class.  Play like it's a flak til they're down to a smidgen and then rapid-fire pursue til dead.  Plus, you never overheat ever!

Edited by comic_sans, January 12 2014 - 09:10 AM.

[Paschar]

Subscribed.  

Just got my raider and been learning on him.  Only have the reflak so far, very interested if I should spend on the "upgrades".

[Preternatural]

Definitely T32 Bolt. It can be charged to do as much damage as the Flak Cannon, or just spammed to do a pretty good amount of damage semi-rapidly. It is very versatile, and can be used at all ranges: close, medium, and long. Paired with the Corsair, you get a pretty deadly one-two punch if MIRV mode and fully charged T32 connect with your victim. It has no real weakness and, as long is your aim is up to par, can knock out any opponent with relative ease.

Edited by Preternatural, January 05 2014 - 05:18 PM.

[Lucier]

I prefer the T32-Bolt. In comparison to the reflak, it's sustained damage is effectively the same, and it's burst damage is greater. The ideal range is a little shorter, but it's not really a big deal since raider is generally a CQC mech anyway. Whenever I'm not firing the bolt, I'm charging it. It charges in stages, so even a partial charge will increase the damage.

For me, the damage superiority & easy heat management of the bolt outweighs the added utility of the ricochet of the reflak. In most situations where the ricochet would be useful, you could probably just use the splash from the corsair for a similar effect.

[caduceus26]

Paschar, on January 05 2014 - 05:11 PM, said:

Subscribed.  

Just got my raider and been learning on him.  Only have the reflak so far, very interested if I should spend on the "upgrades".

Definitely!

[Paschar]

Really sounds like (with decent aim) the T32 shines above and beyond the other options.  

I know this isn't my thread, but thanks Cad and everyone else! This is good reading! I've read some older topics on the subject, but the way a game in beta changes you never know how much you can trust older information.

Edited by Paschar, January 05 2014 - 05:46 PM.

[ThirdEyE]

Agree with just about everything comic_sans and lucier said.  T32 has been my favorite primary on Raider for a long time now, but it can be a bit difficult to learn proper usage.  Besides, knowing how to use it leaves out the ability to execute optimal damage with it.  Patience is a virtue, especially when it comes to the T32.

If you like standing back and picking away at enemies before Blitzing in for cleanup, I would recommend the Reflak to learn on.  Much of the Raider's strength is in the secondary, so I wouldn't bother with learning a difficult primary until you're comfortable and consistent with the secondary.  Reflak is easy to use with full automatic, decent range, good dps, a reasonable heat rate, low spread, and the ricochet effect is a nice added bonus.  Just don't spam it too much from a distance, or when you Blitz in for cleanup you might overheat, which makes you a sad Raider

Edit:  Also, my tuning right now with T32 is max Weapons Loader, Boost Thrusters and Generator, with 6 in Armor.

Edited by ThirdEyE, January 05 2014 - 06:37 PM.

[caduceus26]

Paschar, on January 05 2014 - 05:46 PM, said:

Really sounds like (with decent aim) the T32 shines above and beyond the other options.  

...This is good reading!...

This! Echoing the sentiment on the information you guys are sharing. It is invaluable and once again validates the fact that the Hawken community is first rate--the best of the best!  

Thanks, everyone!

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

Preternatural, on January 05 2014 - 05:16 PM, said:

Definitely T32 Bolt. It can be charged to do as much damage as the Flak Cannon, or just spammed to do a pretty good amount of damage semi-rapidly. It is very versatile, and can be used at all ranges: close, medium, and long. Paired with the Corsair, you get a pretty deadly one-two punch if MIRV mode and fully charged T32 connect with your victim. It has no real weakness and, as long is your aim is up to par, can knock out any opponent with relative ease.

Wha...what_!_  I know I don't have the epic Raider mech (I use Predator, my favorite mech) but how the heck can you use a shotgun who has an extremely short range for long range combat_ o.o  Unless the T32 has some secret function that everyone else knows about and I don't... <.<

[IareDave]

The raider has always been my top mech. T32 bolt and corsair are savage together, just learn when to use charged vs. uncharged shots. Also like comic says, it never overheat*

[Paschar]

After reading all the reviews on the T32 I finally earned enough to splurge on this fine weapon, and I must say after a bit of practice it really does perform.  I miss being able to just hold down my mouse and the Reflak going to town, but with proper left-click spamming while in my enemy's face I feel I'm really putting the hurt on some folks.  

Thanks everyone!

Edited by Paschar, January 06 2014 - 03:18 PM.

[Beefsweat]

Hijinks_The_Turtle, on January 05 2014 - 07:40 PM, said:

Wha...what_!_  I know I don't have the epic Raider mech (I use Predator, my favorite mech) but how the heck can you use a shotgun who has an extremely short range for long range combat_ o.o  Unless the T32 has some secret function that everyone else knows about and I don't... <.<

Fun fact, the reflak has even longer range than the T32. Also these are not conventional 'shotguns' per se.

[caduceus26]

Based on all the excellent recommendations here I switched to T32-Bolt. It turns the Raider into a wrecking ball (nod to Miley) when I am able to score with it! I also love the superior heat management. Although statistically the "Bolt" generates higher heat than ReFlak I never heat up with it.

Now the bad news for me:

Looking at my performance with the two weapons it's clear that I am much more effective with the ReFlak,  I seem to die a lot more with the T32-Bolt than with the ReFlak. Kills and assists drop to single digits and deaths go to double digits. My thinking on why this is the case is 1) I'm not able to do as much primary weapon damage at mid-range before trying to close in and finish off an opponent 2) I have to engage at close range a lot sooner to finish an opponent which means they usually have higher health and 3) apparently I'm missing a lot of shots in the cqc dance.

So I'm back to the ReFlak for now and plan to re-visit the T32-Bolt down the road. I guess I need a lot of practice in training mode because I hate to drag my team down by not carrying my weight in a game. Wish the training mode AI opponents were smarter. They can give you a false sense of confidence that gets one in trouble when facing real opponents.

Hope this is helpful to other fledgling Raiders!  Blitz on!

[Exeon]

I've been using Reflak since the changes made to it. Its spread is far tighter while maintaining very high DPS. Unless you are up close you just lose so much damage via spread on the T32 Bolt. However, many players may find the Bolt a much easier weapon to come into as charging lets you track players without being penalized for not firing right away as much.

[LoC_TR]

T-32 bolt here, as soon  as i got it i haven't looked back. Both are optimal though so it's really gonna come down to how well you play with the raiders regardless of your weapon. Other than that, you got the best raiders in hawken giving you advice in this thread. good luck out their pilot.

[Meraple]

The ReFlak has almost no spread, making it useful for both close- to medium range combat.
Heat management is easy.
The ricochet is also useful when enemies are using cover.

If you can hit alot with the Corsair's normal mode, I'd reccomend trying the EOC.
Same story as with the Pred, only fire if you can hit them.

[Xtratega]

T32-Bolt.

The reason I choose the T32-Bolt over the other ones, is because of its versatility:

1-) As someone already mentioned, you can charge the shots to deal massive amounts of damage (most useful against those C classes, where a simple spamming of shots will lead you to overheat well before a kill.)

2-) When doing uncharged shots, they can be devastating to A Class mechs on the close range, which is part of the reason I choose the Raider when a lobby is crawling with A classes. (Plus that you can use your ability to 'out-dance' a Scout in CQC.)

3-) Yolo

[Meraple]

Xtratega, on February 10 2014 - 03:04 AM, said:

2-) When doing uncharged shots, they can be devastating to A Class mechs on the close range, which is part of the reason I choose the Raider when a lobby is crawling with A classes.

To me, it seems like the ReFlak DEFINATELY has more DPS then the Bolt.
But maybe it's just me.