20 replies to this topic

[zaedish]

The latest patch has brought a lot of surprises. My first thoughts (past the cursing and WTF's) are more about player enjoyment/accomplishment than balance.

The overall armor nerf: I would like to think that each of us values effort over ease. We like to believe we have honed our skills of aim and dodge to the extent that we can take down someone beyond our mech lvl/pilot lvl. The reality with this patch is that we die so much easier (across the board). I don't have the same sense of "earning" the kill that I had before. And I have a seriously increased sense of WTF from 237 millisecond deaths from full life. I don't think anyone enjoys feeling like they've been "one shotted" and this patch makes that sensation much more common.

Pilot progression: I can somewhat (begrudgingly!!!) understand the need to remove the tuning system. But I feel no desire to level my pilot anymore. New levels unlock... emblems... yay... (that was sarcasm in case you missed it). In any game where you invest time for your experience, you want that time to translate to advantage plain and simple: I've been here longer than you so I should be able to kick your ass... I know you want new players to not be obliterated by experienced players, but taking away a system that rewards time and replacing it with "cosmetics" really sucks the life out of wanting to "invest" in this game. Balance the new players vs. veterans some other way please!!! Let my hard earned pilot levels actually mean something.

Losing the monetary gating system: Looking at the "perks" you get from leveling a mech, weapons seem to be the big thing now. I love this idea. Work hard to unlock potential... the only problem (and this may be a bug), is that I have mechs that are lvl 5/6 where I never purchased the alt weapon or prestige weapon. And now I'm expected to purchase that weapon with credits/cash. Not such a big deal except that the credit cost is more than double what it was before, AND the same as unlocking the mech... I feel like, as a player that's been her awhile, I just got fuzzy bunny in the ass without lube...

Mech tree: From what I can tell through the interface, mech level 6 no longer unlocks some new mech. No problems with that, but the mech tree needs serious overhaul then. There is still the legacy of "related" mechs... ambush, assasination, infiltraton, etc. But their classification is now the only linking factor. And some mechs that appear at the bottom (tier 3) are now cheaper than mechs that appear at tier 1 and 2... very very confusing.

To summarize: I don't think anyone likes instant death (it feels like that happens more now than before). We all want to measure our progress with increased effectiveness (that seems to have been removed in favor of balance toward new players), we want time spent to unlock a new experience; new mechs, new weapons, etc (removal of tuning and readjust of premium weapons makes that PAINFUL).

Some general comments: I really like that lights have been made significantly easier to kill (and I play lights almost exclusively), but everything else became easier to kill as well. The overall armor nerf was a little to "even" across the board IMHO. I feel that the armor ratio for lights:mediums:heavies should be 1:2:3 - heavies should have 3 times as much armor as lights. Since firepower is fairly even across mechs (THE BEST THING ABOUT HAWKEN!!!), mobility becomes the next advantage. When two mechs can dump the same DPS, mobility and armor should reflect the expected outcome... should a light vs heavy (1 v 1) win 50% of the time_ I don't think so. Right now, mobility is more weighted than armor...

I started playing this game about 3 months ago and I love it. Mostly because I feel it's balanced across the bored... there are still issues with player skill vs. player lvl in match making, but I feel like in any given mech (if I play to it's advantages), I'm not going to get completely obliterated by any one other mech. This is the beauty of Hawken, and why I expect it to stick around for awhile...

[Nazmorgul]

Its simple. Steam takes a nice cut from all purchases and Valve did not like the current pay system so they forced an overhaul in order to increase revenue.

Ive balanced a few of the landmark games out there in the last 10 years but this patch has got to be one of the worst thought out from a game balance point of view. The difference (negative) in the game-play experience is so dramatic and its absurd. So much fuzzy bunny is out of line that i cant even really begin to think of where to start the fixing.

Yes, insta death is pretty much what its all about now. Instant overheat too. Its going to kill the new player experience.

[caduceus26]

Granted, getting thrown into a game where you're way overmatched can and will be frustrating and painful.  However, in a match where the balance is relatively even I've been able to hold my own so far.  The game is fuzzy bunny fast now and my Raider does a lot more running and dodging to stay alive now.  I'm having to learn a different way to play but I'm still having fun. Gotta break some bad habits though as they get me killed quickly now--can't be as sloppy on positioning and combat awareness as before.

There are still a few glitches but so far this hasn't been anywhere near the "disaster" some have predicted. From the transition to Steam to the changes in the game I'm enjoying the challenge. I'm looking forward to the next set of changes coming later this month.  Good job HWK team!

[Moridar]

zaedish, I absolutely agree with you (in fact, I just posted an open letter on just about the same topic). I really don't like where the game has gone... and it's simply not fun for me to play anymore. It's too bad, really... I've been with it since Alpha 2... but I don't enjoy the game like I used to. And that has only come from this recent patch.

[SystemX]

After a good 2-3 hour play session I have to agree with the statements made above. Although I do feel the combat having a small amount more impact. It is so twitch that it is hard to even keep up with what is going on. As if it was not difficult before.

Currently I have noticed an even farther departure of any type of tactics, aiming and strategy. I try to pick the fastest firing, most spammable/damaging weapons. That require no charge times. Then just try to rush down an opponent as fast as possible. This latest batch of changes has switched how the game is played. I realized I was adapting to this style myself. Throwing all sense of the map and tactics. Instead jumping onto any target a team mate was already attacking just to overwhelm them to reduce numbers. Before I at least would try to probe to find the weak spot in an enemy line, flank, or find an advantage point.. The game is so fast that this is not an option. That has all been removed and is now been change to a style that I have zero interest in playing.  I understand the idea behind these changes was to push us back to the old gameplay style from last year, it just got cranked up TOO much.


As for tuning points, I do also miss them it does take out that sense of ownership of my mech. I as a pilot could customize it in a certain way unlike anyone else. I made my own builds for what I felt made of for my strengths and weaknesses of not only my play style, but the mechs I piloted.

As for a bug, i noticed i did not get my vanguard icon unlocks.. have the mech,engine, repair drone... no portrait

Edited by SystemX, February 05 2014 - 10:55 PM.

[Mackindale]

I have to agree with SystemX, I really have no interest in playing anymore. Hawken was for sure my favorite game, but I feel it was my favorite because of what it was. It was the large amount of health that MANY FPS games lack. It was the careful fuel management and heat management. It was the ability for one mech to take on 2 others and actually win, if that person had the skill. It felt like I was riding in a powerful mech. Now I feel like I'm riding in cardboard or something. It's not really that fun. I loved the teetering between MechWarrior styled "long dogfighting, resource managing" battles and normal FPS speed and agility, yet now it feels like it gave in to normal FPS gameplay style. That's fine if it wants to do that. But for me, Hawken makes a crappy pure FPS game. It needs to have some mechanical power or it just doesn't fill my love of dueling and dogfighting. When I play CoD or something, I'm an organic human. When I play Hawken, I want to be a powerful mecha. That's what this patch has changed.

[Ker4u]

first thoughts on  item ballance
1) item regenerator internal useless
2) replenisher and repair charge  lost a lot of its value
3) detonator/predator/ss da king

[Xacius]

Ker4u, on February 06 2014 - 12:09 AM, said:

first thoughts on  item ballance
1) item regenerator internal useless
2) replenisher and repair charge  lost a lot of its value
3) detonator/predator/ss da king

Tbh, the repair charge needed a nerf.  I believe the Detonator is due for one as well.

[LarryLaffer]

Xacius, on February 06 2014 - 12:15 AM, said:

Tbh, the repair charge needed a nerf.  I believe the Detonator is due for one as well.

The Detonator is really outstanding item especially after new patch. Now it's only one projectile item that flies in a straight line and can be remotely detonated anytime.  Why should we use something else when we have such universal item (I mean in terms of raw damage, not status effects)_ It's a perfect example of KISS principle (Keep it simple, stupid). I haven't seen any skilled player using the HE-Charge instead of the Detonator.

Edited by LarryLaffer, February 06 2014 - 12:48 AM.

[_BMO_]

They replace the soundtrack with a set of noises O_o It was amazing!_

[LarryLaffer]

_BMO_, on February 06 2014 - 02:04 AM, said:

They replace the soundtrack with a set of noises O_o It was amazing!_

I kinda like it more than the old menu theme. It sounds more postapocalyptic

[RunaPanda]

Mackindale, on February 05 2014 - 11:31 PM, said:

I have to agree with SystemX, I really have no interest in playing anymore. Hawken was for sure my favorite game, but I feel it was my favorite because of what it was. It was the large amount of health that MANY FPS games lack. It was the careful fuel management and heat management. It was the ability for one mech to take on 2 others and actually win, if that person had the skill. It felt like I was riding in a powerful mech. Now I feel like I'm riding in cardboard or something. It's not really that fun. I loved the teetering between MechWarrior styled "long dogfighting, resource managing" battles and normal FPS speed and agility, yet now it feels like it gave in to normal FPS gameplay style. That's fine if it wants to do that. But for me, Hawken makes a crappy pure FPS game. It needs to have some mechanical power or it just doesn't fill my love of dueling and dogfighting. When I play CoD or something, I'm an organic human. When I play Hawken, I want to be a powerful mecha. That's what this patch has changed.

My sentiments exactly, the feeling of being a machine to be reckoned with is gone. Now it feels like your a kid in a cardboard box playing make believe. What used to be head to head intense 20~30 second skirmishes has now been reduced to, light head bumping into tables instant death. It's far to geared towards TDM/DM then the unloved MA and SG, MA and SG drew me in. As I preferred strategy and tactics over mindless slaughter. Now the strategy and tactics have been removed and it's all mindless slaughter no matter which mode of play you choose.

[_BMO_]

LarryLaffer, on February 06 2014 - 02:29 AM, said:

_BMO_, on February 06 2014 - 02:04 AM, said:

They replace the soundtrack with a set of noises O_o It was amazing!_

I kinda like it more than the old menu theme. It sounds more postapocalyptic

I take this as an insult



I'm here to know what you are thinking right now about the new S. Hawken.  (Steam not Saint..)
I'm so scared of all this change, it seems that less TTK (time to kill) we have less tatics and skill we use.
Now I only see people with shift + A and shift + B, the game is very fast and feel very strange for now.

[TheFrostnessMonster]

Reading the above comments makes me sad. I haven't played Hawken in a long time (since open Beta) and since I read that it was making the transition to Steam, I decided I'd get back in. I just hope they fix the balance issues mentioned in the previous posts, since I might not rejoin if these issues are in the game right now. And, since I was in Alpha 2, I hope this game won't croak due to bad updates. This game has serious potential.

Edited by TheFrostnessMonster, February 06 2014 - 06:48 AM.

[Opicron]

Sorry guys I disagree with you completely. I just finished a few maps and they were great.

Scout is no longer dominating the playfield. My reaper and bruiser kick ass as never before. And they were already kicking ass before .

Now, one needs to make split second decisions instead of face punching eachother for 10 seconds. It can be over quicker but one can still take on multiple enemies. Just think before you boost into action.

Cheers!

[_BMO_]

Opicron, on February 06 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:

Sorry guys I disagree with you completely. I just finished a few maps and they were great.

Scout is no longer dominating the playfield. My reaper and bruiser kick ass as never before. And they were already kicking ass before .

Now, one needs to make split second decisions instead of face punching eachother for 10 seconds. It can be over quicker but one can still take on multiple enemies. Just think before you boost into action.

Cheers!

You have been paid by them (it's a joke)


I agree with you in fact I have played all the day but It's not Hawken for me, it's a bad copy.


However I have a question about TTK.

I read that they reduced TTK because they wanted enhance things like strategy, team work and player's skills but now it didn't seems that the game is better than before about the strategy, team work and player's skills. Am I wrong_

Please answer and try to make a usefull discussion.

[LarryLaffer]

Well, after playing for a few hours I can say I mostly like this patch. Matches became more intensive. Only 2 things bother me right now; it's the Detonators and tremendous power of Sharpshooters and Reapers. Even if i can close my eyes on first one, I can't do that on such instagib and universal in terms of range mechs.

[Dinre]

If I'm really being honest with myself, I'd have to say that Hawken has never felt like a very strategic game (been playing since alpha).  That's okay, as long as there are many opportunities for tactical decisions.  In the last several months, it feels like the Hawken devs are aware that the feel of the game has been less than optimal and are experimenting to find a better formula.  As long as Hawken keeps changing things up, I have a good feeling about the long-term outlook.  Heck, I'd probably keep playing the game even if they never found a solid formula as long as the game kept changing and surprising me.

Now, my opinion about Hawken will completely change if they move all our topics with complaints into a locked, archived forum thread and release only paid content updates for the next six months.  I've experienced that once, and once is too much.

[Ker4u]

LarryLaffer, on February 06 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

Well, after playing for a few hours I can say I mostly like this patch. Matches became more intensive. Only 2 things bother me right now; it's the Detonators and tremendous power of Sharpshooters and Reapers. Even if i can close my eyes on first one, I can't do that on such instagib and universal in terms of range mechs.

this^ and i would add new overheating system,   it kills the good old balancing on the edge,  to make 1 more shot, and now you  need to hide for 3 seconds

[Superkamikazee]

I like the new system quite a bit after spending a few hours in the game. In the last patch even if you caught someone by surprise they could scurry away, or even fight back to kill you. Positioning meant nothing, catching someone off guard meant nothing. If someone gets the jump on you, I feel you should be at a major disadvantage and it seems like the new update reflects that to some degree (lower hp).

To me it feels like every encounter matters now, there's more at stake meaning you could be killed easily if you fuzzy bunny this up. Personally that's more exciting than dodge straffing in an infinite loop because neither one of can die due to 830hp B classes slapping each other in the face, then just running off like a bunch of silly school girls to go repair so we can just do it all over again.