22 replies to this topic

[ShadowWarg]

Don't get me wrong I love the patch, but PLEASE for the love of all that is holy, PLEASE, remove the rear damage bonus. Now MORE THAN EVERY it is unneeded.

Turret mode has:

• low health in general because the C's themselves have low health
  
• have limited mobility
  
• have a more restricted turn cap

I understand it is tactical and for situational use, but even when the time to use it is right, turret mode is even more unappealing than it was before because of the low health and that rear bonus. Not even the frontal defense buff can negate the down sides that come with the lack of mobility hands you in this super mobile game. That alone is enough to get yourself killed if not used right.

So please I AM BEGGING, please remove the turret mode rear damage.

[Estif]

Well, I agree with you, I loved absolutelly the new patch, but yeah, the turret mode needs some more love :3

[TheVulong]

You have like.. 80-90% frontal damage reduction and you still complain_!

P.S. Thank God you changed back your avatar. Couldn't recognize you without it.

[ShadowWarg]

TheVulong, on February 08 2014 - 06:55 PM, said:

You have like.. 80-90% frontal damage reduction and you still complain_!

That's only on 2 mechs. And there is still 270 degrees in 3 dimensions of other ways you can take hits that isn't frontal. Yes the frontal defense buff is cool, but that matters not anymore when it is so easy to get behind a turret mode with the now lower health.

TheVulong, on February 08 2014 - 06:55 PM, said:

P.S. Thank God you changed back your avatar. Couldn't recognize you without it.

I know what you mean. I came on one day and saw that avatar on a post and was wondering "who the heck is that and why are they using my name_"

[SparkyJJC]

I'll agree with the fact that the Type C mechs are very easily killed from the rear - A single Raider Corsair-KLA rocket can knock it down to about an eighth of it's health - but I still believe that there should still be some sort of penalty while in turret mode. I know there is a MASSIVE speed reduction, but there is sometimes another upside when in turret mode (i.e Instant locking on with Rocketeer, health regen with Brawler, more mobility in turret mode than other mechs with Vanguard).

I'll have to agree with a rear damage bonus, but it should be reduced from what it currently is because at the rate I'm going, I'll dropping a lot more Type C's as if they are Type A's.

[Kerc_Kersa]

Instead of just removing the rear damage bonus, why don't we reduce the reduction on the front by the bonus on the back_ This way the amount of damage to kill a C class stays about the same, but there isn't "bonus points" for attacking their back. It is already rewarding enough to shoot them in the back since they can't move fast enough to follow you.


Grenadier: 85% Reduction - 30% = 59.5% Reduction

Brawler: 90% Reduction - 50% = 45% Reduction

Vanguard: 40% Reduction - 50% = 20% Reduction

Rocketeer: 55% Reduction - 50% = 27.5% Reduction

This would help turret mode not be overpowered and still offer a benefit.

Edited by HawkEyE_, February 09 2014 - 05:30 PM.

[DennisKnightPC]

just in case anyone is confused, the reduction % is misleading.  The number actually represents the amount of damage you take. So:

Brawler takes 90% of the normal damage
Grenadier - 85%
Rocketeer - 55%
Vanguard - 40%

If a TOW missile (125 dmg) hits the brawler in the face while in turret mode it does 112.5 damage whereas it would only do 50 damage to the Vanguard. Imo, although there is a little unevenness between them, turret mode got a lot better with the patch, mostly because mechs don't have enough health to boost towards you and "vault" over to shoot you in the back any more.

[Kerc_Kersa]

DennisKnightPC, on February 09 2014 - 06:56 PM, said:

just in case anyone is confused, the reduction % is misleading.  The number actually represents the amount of damage you take. So:

Brawler takes 90% of the normal damage
Grenadier - 85%
Rocketeer - 55%
Vanguard - 40%

If a TOW missile (125 dmg) hits the brawler in the face while in turret mode it does 112.5 damage whereas it would only do 50 damage to the Vanguard. Imo, although there is a little unevenness between them, turret mode got a lot better with the patch, mostly because mechs don't have enough health to boost towards you and "vault" over to shoot you in the back any more.

If that is true, then it's very misleading lol

However, it still is very easy to move faster than a C mech in turret mode since it cannot turn fast enough to keep you from attacking it in the back.

Edit: I still believe that the rear damage bonus should be removed and lower the front damage reduction by that %.

Edited by HawkEyE_, February 09 2014 - 07:05 PM.

[ShadowWarg]

HawkEyE_, on February 09 2014 - 07:00 PM, said:

DennisKnightPC, on February 09 2014 - 06:56 PM, said:

just in case anyone is confused, the reduction % is misleading.  The number actually represents the amount of damage you take. So:

Brawler takes 90% of the normal damage
Grenadier - 85%
Rocketeer - 55%
Vanguard - 40%

If a TOW missile (125 dmg) hits the brawler in the face while in turret mode it does 112.5 damage whereas it would only do 50 damage to the Vanguard. Imo, although there is a little unevenness between them, turret mode got a lot better with the patch, mostly because mechs don't have enough health to boost towards you and "vault" over to shoot you in the back any more.

If that is true, then it's very misleading lol

However, it still is very easy to move faster than a C mech in turret mode since it cannot turn fast enough to keep you from attacking it in the back.

Edit: I still believe that the rear damage bonus should be removed and lower the front damage reduction by that %.

I think "Missleading" is a freaking understatement.

So just to clear things up (at least for my sake)

Brawler turret mode damage reduction - 10%
Grenadier turret mode damage reduction - 15%
Rocketeer turret mode damage reduction - 45%
Vanguard turret mode damage reduction - 60%

if those values are reversed, then all the more reason to remove the rear damage bonus.

Edited by ShadowWarg, February 09 2014 - 11:07 PM.

[DennisKnightPC]

ShadowWarg, on February 09 2014 - 11:06 PM, said:

HawkEyE_, on February 09 2014 - 07:00 PM, said:

DennisKnightPC, on February 09 2014 - 06:56 PM, said:

just in case anyone is confused, the reduction % is misleading.  The number actually represents the amount of damage you take. So:

Brawler takes 90% of the normal damage
Grenadier - 85%
Rocketeer - 55%
Vanguard - 40%

If a TOW missile (125 dmg) hits the brawler in the face while in turret mode it does 112.5 damage whereas it would only do 50 damage to the Vanguard. Imo, although there is a little unevenness between them, turret mode got a lot better with the patch, mostly because mechs don't have enough health to boost towards you and "vault" over to shoot you in the back any more.

If that is true, then it's very misleading lol

However, it still is very easy to move faster than a C mech in turret mode since it cannot turn fast enough to keep you from attacking it in the back.

Edit: I still believe that the rear damage bonus should be removed and lower the front damage reduction by that %.

I think "Missleading" is a freaking understatement.

So just to clear things up (at least for my sake)

Brawler turret mode damage reduction - 10%
Grenadier turret mode damage reduction - 15%
Rocketeer turret mode damage reduction - 45%
Vanguard turret mode damage reduction - 60%

^Yes exactly.

[Kerc_Kersa]

ShadowWarg, on February 09 2014 - 11:06 PM, said:

HawkEyE_, on February 09 2014 - 07:00 PM, said:

DennisKnightPC, on February 09 2014 - 06:56 PM, said:

just in case anyone is confused, the reduction % is misleading.  The number actually represents the amount of damage you take. So:

Brawler takes 90% of the normal damage
Grenadier - 85%
Rocketeer - 55%
Vanguard - 40%

If a TOW missile (125 dmg) hits the brawler in the face while in turret mode it does 112.5 damage whereas it would only do 50 damage to the Vanguard. Imo, although there is a little unevenness between them, turret mode got a lot better with the patch, mostly because mechs don't have enough health to boost towards you and "vault" over to shoot you in the back any more.

If that is true, then it's very misleading lol

However, it still is very easy to move faster than a C mech in turret mode since it cannot turn fast enough to keep you from attacking it in the back.

Edit: I still believe that the rear damage bonus should be removed and lower the front damage reduction by that %.

I think "Missleading" is a freaking understatement.

So just to clear things up (at least for my sake)

Brawler turret mode damage reduction - 10%
Grenadier turret mode damage reduction - 15%
Rocketeer turret mode damage reduction - 45%
Vanguard turret mode damage reduction - 60%

if those values are reversed, then all the more reason to remove the rear damage bonus.

This means that using the Deflector internal will grant a better damage reduction with NO drawbacks then half the turret modes.

[ShadowWarg]

HawkEyE_, on February 10 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

ShadowWarg, on February 09 2014 - 11:06 PM, said:

HawkEyE_, on February 09 2014 - 07:00 PM, said:

DennisKnightPC, on February 09 2014 - 06:56 PM, said:

just in case anyone is confused, the reduction % is misleading.  The number actually represents the amount of damage you take. So:

Brawler takes 90% of the normal damage
Grenadier - 85%
Rocketeer - 55%
Vanguard - 40%

If a TOW missile (125 dmg) hits the brawler in the face while in turret mode it does 112.5 damage whereas it would only do 50 damage to the Vanguard. Imo, although there is a little unevenness between them, turret mode got a lot better with the patch, mostly because mechs don't have enough health to boost towards you and "vault" over to shoot you in the back any more.

If that is true, then it's very misleading lol

However, it still is very easy to move faster than a C mech in turret mode since it cannot turn fast enough to keep you from attacking it in the back.

Edit: I still believe that the rear damage bonus should be removed and lower the front damage reduction by that %.

I think "Missleading" is a freaking understatement.

So just to clear things up (at least for my sake)

Brawler turret mode damage reduction - 10%
Grenadier turret mode damage reduction - 15%
Rocketeer turret mode damage reduction - 45%
Vanguard turret mode damage reduction - 60%

if those values are reversed, then all the more reason to remove the rear damage bonus.

This means that using the Deflector internal will grant a better damage reduction with NO drawbacks then half the turret modes.

Wrong. They made it so the deflector does not work in turret mode. Although I think it should , it was designed not to.

[Kerc_Kersa]

I meant that it grants the bonus to all mechs, except turret mode. Sorry for the confusion.

It would be great if it worked for turret mode, but the two main reasons it doesn't is because it would protect your rear and make the front reduction too powerful.

[Skrill]

Normal damage from behind reduced damage from the front. Problem solved

[PhysicsCrime]

Especially with the prevalence of dodging now.  Simply not being able to dodge makes the turret mode a bad idea in terms of defense while also making your offense worse due to limited tracking ability.

I think it should be something like:

Brawler: -50% damage taken from the front
Grenadier: -30% damage taken from the front
Rocketeer: -50% damage taken from the front
Vanguard: -60% damage taken from the front

In addition:
-All take normal damage from the rear (being able to be hit with 100% certainty is enough of a disadvantage).
-Brawler HP regen reduced to: 5 HP/s in combat (from 14), 15 HP/s out of combat (from 22).

Spoiler

ShadowWarg, on February 09 2014 - 11:06 PM, said:

HawkEyE_, on February 09 2014 - 07:00 PM, said:

DennisKnightPC, on February 09 2014 - 06:56 PM, said:

just in case anyone is confused, the reduction % is misleading.  The number actually represents the amount of damage you take. So:

Brawler takes 90% of the normal damage
Grenadier - 85%
Rocketeer - 55%
Vanguard - 40%

If a TOW missile (125 dmg) hits the brawler in the face while in turret mode it does 112.5 damage whereas it would only do 50 damage to the Vanguard. Imo, although there is a little unevenness between them, turret mode got a lot better with the patch, mostly because mechs don't have enough health to boost towards you and "vault" over to shoot you in the back any more.

If that is true, then it's very misleading lol

However, it still is very easy to move faster than a C mech in turret mode since it cannot turn fast enough to keep you from attacking it in the back.

Edit: I still believe that the rear damage bonus should be removed and lower the front damage reduction by that %.

I think "Missleading" is a freaking understatement.

So just to clear things up (at least for my sake)

Brawler turret mode damage reduction - 10%
Grenadier turret mode damage reduction - 15%
Rocketeer turret mode damage reduction - 45%
Vanguard turret mode damage reduction - 60%

if those values are reversed, then all the more reason to remove the rear damage bonus.

When I first saw this in the patch notes I was astounded.  I thought they actually made turret mode not just useful but OP.

Edited by PhysicsCrime, February 11 2014 - 10:43 AM.

[Viconaut]

dont go into turret mode out in the open O.o

poor C class go down like scouts on fly paper when they dont have a team or a hall/wall to keep me from the back door

[Claxus]

IMO, that back damage really should go. As has been stated, with the current pace and stats of the game, it makes Turret Mode /way/ too crippled. On my Vanguard, I'm terrified of Scouts. These guys hit me with their glass cannon weapons easily, while being so quick. I'm stuck in turret mode, and can barely keep up while the Scout just dodges to the side and I have to completely readjust my aim and I miss some shots with the slowness of turret mode, while taking in every single shot, myself. This goes for most Type-As, but I've rarely been able to beat them in a duel. Not to mention what happens if they fly up and shoot my back. To put it bluntly, I feel a heavy dueling a Type-A will lose every time, and that doesn't feel right. Even out of turret mode, I'm always now avoiding Type-As because their superior mobility with powerful weapons just makes them more efficient...

As the game is now, Turret Mode is extremely situational, and even when you use it right, it only aids your survivability by a few seconds. That's when defending a spot or trying to lead an assault. It helps, or does it_

In reality, I survive longer now since I stopped using it. Dodging is way much more important now. Even a heavy mech survives more with dodges. Turret mode will take TOW Rockets and other splash-capable weapons head on, and 100% of concentrated fire. With only 600~ armor, avoiding like 30% of fire is better than soaking it up with 50% reduction. On the other hand, it's amazing with a tech helping, but that's all...

Getting snuck up by on by a Scout... Well, you die before you can even see you got hit. That shouldn't happen with a Type-C. Their weapons are hardly even superior to lighter types. They're sluggish. Their only big plus is having more armor. But the pace of the game now is dodge or die. Type-Cs can't live long enough to make use of that armor. Turret mode is already an invitation to get prioritized and killed even faster than attempting to dodge. The last thing I need is to see enemies splitting up on the radar and I can't do anything. I have to face both of them, or I'm going to get teared down in a second. But I can't do that... I can revert to normal mode, but those 3 seconds mean life or death. Sure, you can hug a wall, but in the end, that won't buy you much more time at being alive, and it's not always practical. Plus you can just be cornered and shot from above.

Sorry for the ranting, but I really feel the ability is in dire need of a buff one way or another, and I'm on the mech that best utilizes it. HP is way too low in the game for it to help outlast more than dodging. Mobility of Type-As still beat you out, Type-Bs combine speed and power (and impressive abilities), and trying to use it against more than one enemy just means you get 100% accuracy fire from multiple enemies which isn't helped much by the shield, or flanked. At least take out that vital worry about getting flanked, you know_ You can barely even do anything once someone's behind you. Not for 3 seconds anyway. If they don't rotate to stay behind you. I think just removing back damage is a big step to making the skill more useful like others, Exposing your back is just so bad right now that it makes it not worth using at all in tandem to the rest of the drawback turret mode has. You can't even defend in Siege/MA because you can't stay in the defense zones without exposing your back at least a little bit, let alone the too back area.

Edited by Claxus, February 24 2014 - 04:01 AM.

[Duralumi]

Skrill, on February 10 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

Normal damage from behind reduced damage from the front. Problem solved

Pretty much this.
The damage boost from behind doesn't even make sense from a physical standpoint since the only armour that is moved are the giant wings which didn't exclusively cover the rear in the first place.

[Farlanghn]

The C-classes turn super fast. You as a pilot should know not to drop turret in the middle of the fight. Turret mode is to push through the enemy line. If you do not know the mech then you should practice and learn its strengths. I love that the mech has a weak point. It is still super hard to hit be it turns retardedly fast.

I was recently in a game where I had to fight against 3 C-classes with a tech behind all 3 turreted. I would flank yet my team took everything straight on and of course we lost. It needs a balance. Learn the balance young grasshopper!

Edited by Farlanghn, February 24 2014 - 08:58 AM.

[Stingz]

Farlanghn, on February 24 2014 - 08:58 AM, said:

The C-classes turn super fast. You as a pilot should know not to drop turret in the middle of the fight. Turret mode is to push through the enemy line. If you do not know the mech then you should practice and learn its strengths. I love that the mech has a weak point. It is still super hard to hit be it turns retardedly fast.

I was recently in a game where I had to fight against 3 C-classes with a tech behind all 3 turreted. I would flank yet my team took everything straight on and of course we lost. It needs a balance. Learn the balance young grasshopper!

Only Vanguard has enough resistance and speed to push into enemies. Grenades and snipers have an easy time picking on C-class mechs since they can't move out of the way.

Incinerator is actually dangerous since it has ridiculous sustained firepower in direct fights, and A-class repellant ability.

Edited by Stingz, February 25 2014 - 09:38 AM.