18 replies to this topic

[RemoteRadical]

Seasoned FPS players no doubt know what I am referring to.
Quick-scoping is effectively an exploit of game mechanics, allowing experienced players to land high damage and/or high accuracy shots at ranges scopes were not meant to be useful at. It is done by placing the aim outside of scoped view, zooming for just a split-second and shooting immediatelly.
Various FPSs dealt with this exploit in different ways. In Team Fortress 2 it is impossible to shoot at all for 0.5s after scoping with sniper rifle.

I didn't manage to test it yet, but I am sure high level players already know or would be interested to know if accuracy and damage bonuses to sniper weapons in HAWKEN are applied immediatelly on zoom, or only when zooming animation is over, or somewhere in between.

EDIT:
By simply observing KE-Sabot tracer I can definitelly tell that the bonus starts to apply well before zooming animation finishes, but not immediatelly. The small delay means its is not highly exploitable, but I would be surprised if experienced players weren't already taking advantage of this.

Edited by RemoteRadical, February 18 2014 - 07:45 AM.

[CounterlogicMan]

In this game, midrange and cqc sniping is quick scoping. If you are not quick scoping as an SS or reaper at mid ranges and cqc you are staying exposed for way to long, are not doing enough damage, and are going to take a lot of damage/get rushed.

The difference between quick scoping in Hawken and quick scoping in other fps' is quite simple. Other fps', that may have problems with quick scoping, generally have 1 hit kills with snipers. In Hawken snipers cannot 1 hit kill any mech in the game, even scoped. For that reason, along with the general speed of Hawken, quick scoping becomes a necessity of snipers not an exploit.

[Dinre]

I almost exclusively used quick-scoping for all ranges with the Sharpshooter, because Hawken has a high penalty for being caught unaware.  I found the Sharpshooter to be a bit over-powered with this play style, leading to high performance but very boring matches.  Sharpshooter could just be removed from the game, and I wouldn't mind.

[RemoteRadical]

Thanks guys,

I am getting hang of firing both burst weapons at the same time. I am rapidly getting better at quickscoping too.

Given that both Reaper and Sharphooter have near identical loadout (SS's Sabot being slightly more accurate and slower refiring) should I pay up and get the SS, or is there -any- reason I would prefer stick to Reaper that came in Steam bundle_

Reaper's special ability is absolutely useless when comboing Slug and Sabot rifles. It even has poorer air dynamics than B-class SS.

Edited by RemoteRadical, February 18 2014 - 10:37 AM.

[Dinre]

This is just my opinion:

The Reaper has a completely different purpose when compared to a Sharpshooter.  The Sharpshooter fills the standard sniping role of long distance kills, while the Reaper is MUCH better at harrassing.  When playing a Reaper, the point is usually to ping every enemy mech on the field, distracting the enemy and assisting your teammates in their duels.  Played well, the Reaper can turn the tide of a match, but it won't perform as well if you just sit in a hunting stand and snipe.

[RemoteRadical]

This might have been the intent behind a lighter, more mobile sniper class, but you didn't actually say why Reaper would be signifficantly better at harassing playstyle than Sharpshooter_
Is the minor agility boost really worth 120 less armor_ Refire rate of Reaper's secondary is higher, but overall DPS is almost identical.

[CounterlogicMan]

Reaper is much more forgiving than SS because of its quicker speed. It won't hit as hard but is a good start for sniping. Dinre is right in saying that you will mostly harass and pick off easy kills. It is better at harassing than the SS because of its mobility and small hit box.The ability on the reaper is far from useless with slug and ke-sabot, keep in mind when you use your specially ability you essentially have 100% accuracy scoped, and unscoped. So for slug and ke-sabot it can be extremely useful in a frantic cqc situation.

[RemoteRadical]

CounterlogicMan, on February 18 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

Reaper is much more forgiving than SS because of its quicker speed. It won't hit as hard but is a good start for sniping. Dinre is right in saying that you will mostly harass and pick off easy kills. It is better at harassing than the SS because of its mobility and small hit box.The ability on the reaper is far from useless with slug and ke-sabot, keep in mind when you use your specially ability you essentially have 100% accuracy scoped, and unscoped. So for slug and ke-sabot it can be extremely useful in a frantic cqc situation.

Thanks for that. It takes considerably long time to outfit a completely new mech in items and internals, so I really needed you guys' informed opinion before commiting. Also, I think Reaper simply looks better.

Edited by RemoteRadical, February 18 2014 - 05:16 PM.

[PhasmaFelis]

I'm not sure if I'd call it an "exploit." More of a workaround for silly devs who think that bullets hurt less when the shooter is not wearing binoculars.

[Hayseed]

Personally, I think that the sharpshooter class is extremely under-powered. Granted it's Sabot rifle is very powerful, it is impossible to one-hit kill anything, and practically anything you hit is going to immediately duck behind cover and heal. The only way that I found myself to be of assistance to my team is simply "pinging" enemy mechs with both the SA-HAWKINS and the Sabot rifle, or maneuvering around and picking off weak enemies while they are trying to heal. It takes a while to get used to but by getting some turrets into my inventory I was actually able to do a bit of damage (worth noting, on average I can deal about 5000 damage in a single round, but this usually translate into 3 to 4 kills at the most and about 12 assists).

[Zycat]

Hayseed, on March 14 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

and practically anything you hit is going to immediately duck behind cover and heal.

Suppression is good since they'll have to spend time repairing instead of doing anything else more dangerous to your team. You've basically disabled a mech if you can induce them to repair.

[IareDave]

Reaper is no where near as useful as an SS. It's weapons are weaker, ability is essentially useless, and it has all the pros/cons of an A-class. A skilled SS can really bulk up a team more so than the reaper. SS has a Better ability, stronger burst, and more hp.

[Ls777]

RemoteRadical, on February 18 2014 - 07:15 AM, said:

In Team Fortress 2 it is impossible to shoot at all for 0.5s after scoping with sniper rifle.

Actually the delay is only 200ms. Barely anything.

[IronClamp]

More ranting about SS and Reaper_ You people are nuts.
And how the F*** do you shoot and scope in the middle of a firefight_
Understand I'm a noob, but really_ You people must drink half a dozen Monsters before playing to do that kind of S***

Edited by IronClamp, March 29 2014 - 01:15 PM.

[Dinre]

IronClamp, on March 29 2014 - 01:14 PM, said:

And how do you shoot and scope in the middle of a firefight_

Quick scoping is actually quite easy once you get used to it.  You just zoom, fire, unzoom without actually looking at anything through the scope.  You line up the shot before you zoom, and you get crazy bonus damage for almost no effort.  This is especially effective in games like CS or UT.

[gsilver]

With the Sharpshooter, I've used it long enough to know to aim to the right of what I want to hit with the secondary weapon while not using scope. It can be tricky to hit, and you're generally in trouble if people engage you at that range, but it works in a pinch.

[Stingz]

gsilver, on March 30 2014 - 12:34 PM, said:

With the Sharpshooter, I've used it long enough to know to aim to the right of what I want to hit with the secondary weapon while not using scope. It can be tricky to hit, and you're generally in trouble if people engage you at that range, but it works in a pinch.

The key thing is unscoped, the (Ke-)Sabot looses accuracy AND DAMAGE when unzoomed.

Edited by Stingz, March 30 2014 - 01:36 PM.

[kanamisan]

IareDave, on March 15 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

Reaper is no where near as useful as an SS. It's weapons are weaker, ability is essentially useless, and it has all the pros/cons of an A-class. A skilled SS can really bulk up a team more so than the reaper. SS has a Better ability, stronger burst, and more hp.

but your forgetting all the damage a reaper can avoid, the extra mobility it has to move with its team and not be caught out of position. and the fact that the reaper has a lower accuracy penility when not scoped in allowing it to perform much better in cqc if it has to. not to mention that its faster rof allows it to tag kills  with out leaving the targets as much time to escape. over all, it can perform much better in near medium dmr roles as well as proper rifleman roles with out being bogged down to one, this gives it so much more flexablity. while the ss can hit very hard and its sabot sounds amazing, Its much more focused on getting the wounding hits so that the more forward memebers of the team can clean up. but, the reaper is much better for keeping the team suppressed as well as gutting anyone who tries to fight your team. the main diffrence is that the reaper can act like an assult or play a bit more back. and even help cover team mates in cqc as needed. the ss just cant keep up as well.

[IronClamp]

Thank you! Some one who understands why some people prefer the Reap over that clunkin' (and more expensive) SS.