46 replies to this topic

[XyXly]

Bringer, on March 20 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

I always boost towards them to smite them with my seething hatred of all things different. The trick to fighting a scout, is to kill it!
What you have to do is ram them so they panic and blow their dodge. Thats when you have them! They try to run sometimes, but everyone needs sleep...

what the heck kind of scouts were you playing against

[Phantasmo]

From my noob point of view:
The scout looks like godmode on.  Such DPS with insane speed is very difficult to fight.
I just can't kill them with my Predator EOC Repeater. Landing a shot with such a weapon on a flying scout is extremely difficult, landing two even more.
By the time you can score two or three shots you're almost dead since the guy carries a TOW nothing less, and that other destroyer DPS cannon , which is also very easy to use.

And herein lies the problem: first, using such mechs is a no-brainer: dodge from cover, shot tremendous damage, get back. It hardly needs any skill.
On the other hand, fighting the scout requires insane skills. Perhaps automatic weapons like the AR, SMC, etc might give you better chances. Trying to kill a flying one with Predator weapons is.. desperately difficult.

I think too that giving such weapons to light mechs is a strange thing to do. Normally, heavy mechs carry powerful weapons while scouts (pun intended) have light weapons and rely on speed. Hawken's scout carries the same weapons as a heavy, hit's as hard as a heavy but moves way, way faster.
Add the air compressor (was that the name_) and we have a problem.

Edited by Phantasmo, March 20 2014 - 05:25 PM.

[Stingz]

Phantasmo, on March 20 2014 - 05:24 PM, said:

From my noob point of view:
The scout looks like godmode on.  Such DPS with insane speed is very difficult to fight.
I just can't kill them with my Predator EOC Repeater. Landing a shot with such a weapon on a flying scout is extremely difficult, landing two even more.
By the time you can score two or three shots you're almost dead since the guy carries a TOW nothing less, and that other destroyer DPS cannon , which is also very easy to use.

And herein lies the problem: first, using such mechs is a no-brainer: dodge from cover, shot tremendous damage, get back. It hardly needs any skill.
On the other hand, fighting the scout requires insane skills. Perhaps automatic weapons like the AR, SMC, etc might give you better chances. Trying to kill a flying one with Predator weapons is.. desperately difficult.

I think too that giving such weapons to light mechs is a strange thing to do. Normally, heavy mechs carry powerful weapons while scouts (pun intended) have light weapons and rely on speed. Hawken's scout carries the same weapons as a heavy, hit's as hard as a heavy but moves way, way faster.
Add the air compressor (was that the name_) and we have a problem.

It's certainly not easy on the Scout's part either, 1 TOW(125) is over 1/3 health(320) in one shot . The Scout is bewildering up close with how fast it moves.

Backing up means their speed and dodging covers less distance on your screen, it's much easier to hit a Scout from a distance.

HEAT Cannon Scouts are just evil though, mid-range terror that's extremely hard to stop.

Edited by Stingz, March 21 2014 - 04:49 AM.

[mccrorie]

For all the complaints they are still quite fragile. The problem for myself, and I expect many others have the same issue, is that when your latency gets up around 80+ms all the A-class mechs become very difficult to hit directly. Especially if the pilot is good. This makes A class seem especially formidable in a lot of online play. I'm not sure what can really be done about this.

In another way things like FOV and the increase in flying ability are exacerbating things by slanting the game towards a more DM-arena style of play (trying to flank an A-class with bug-eye vision is quite a joke, really) rather than a highly considered slug-fest between two groups of differing mechs.

One way I could imagine tackling this problem is to buff the armour on B and C class and leave A as it is.

Edited by mccrorie, March 20 2014 - 07:07 PM.

[XyXly]

Phantasmo, on March 20 2014 - 05:24 PM, said:

From my noob point of view:
The scout looks like godmode on.  Such DPS with insane speed is very difficult to fight.
I just can't kill them with my Predator EOC Repeater. Landing a shot with such a weapon on a flying scout is extremely difficult, landing two even more.
By the time you can score two or three shots you're almost dead since the guy carries a TOW nothing less, and that other destroyer DPS cannon , which is also very easy to use.

And herein lies the problem: first, using such mechs is a no-brainer: dodge from cover, shot tremendous damage, get back. It hardly needs any skill.
On the other hand, fighting the scout requires insane skills. Perhaps automatic weapons like the AR, SMC, etc might give you better chances. Trying to kill a flying one with Predator weapons is.. desperately difficult.

I think too that giving such weapons to light mechs is a strange thing to do. Normally, heavy mechs carry powerful weapons while scouts (pun intended) have light weapons and rely on speed. Hawken's scout carries the same weapons as a heavy, hit's as hard as a heavy but moves way, way faster.
Add the air compressor (was that the name_) and we have a problem.

Try playing as a scout. See if it feels like "Godmode On".

There's scout players who give up, and then there's good scout players.

[Bringer]

XyXly, on March 20 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:

what the heck kind of scouts were you playing against

the distracted kind with out air compressors

[OmegaNull]

Bringer, on March 21 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

XyXly, on March 20 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:

what the heck kind of scouts were you playing against

the distracted kind with out air compressors

A scout doesn't need air compressor to be good. However, it opens up whole new avenue of maneuverability that just wasn't there before. And even more, allows you stay alive longer. It really is a glass cannon and only those who understand the movement mechanics and various other aspects of the game will never truly appreciate just how hard the damn thing can be.

Also, scout in TDM,,,is hard... REALLY hard sometimes. Sometimes it is impossible so I use a Brawler or something else.

[Desert_Fox2]

OmegaNull, on March 20 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

Stingz, on March 20 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

Bringer, on March 20 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

If you let the scout get away you arent going to kill it. When a scout does its alpha immediately boost towards it, it cant shoot you for a while. Then dodge when its TOW cooldown is up. If you did it right the scout has eaten two TOWs and you have eaten one TOW and a few flak hits. More importantly, you are also now probably angled properly so that whatever corner it had been planning to use for peekabooing is useless for cover and can finish it off with your SMC and hitpoint buffer.

A-class must be ran down and slaughtered with out hesitation! It is the only way. If you let them turn it into a game of speed and distance control they will win! So you must react fast and decisively and kill them while they are planning to enter a remote detination corner peeking TOW duel with you.

This is the great secret of every game, let your strenghts carry themselves, you are playing your weakness.

If you see something more dangerous than you, you must rush it! And then you kill it.

Just be careful about how far you chase, you might get ambushed by a teammate.

Or, a good scout will be waiting for you to chase,

Being a scout pilot, let me give you some insight into what you are doing wrong and why I love it.

First, charging right at me is awesome because of 3 things:
1) When boosting, you are unable to fire your weapons
2) Unless you know to jump at the end of your boost (something good players know of) to quickly ready your weapons, I have about 2 seconds to hit you in the face
3) You are a really easy target. Hell, I don't even have to aim much.

If a scout runs away, let them. If you chase, be careful. If someone is chasing me, I am going to find the nearest cover, drop a repair orb (and if they are far enough behind me) drop down to repair. OR I will just sit and wait. As you come around a corner, fire a tow.

*Sighs*

I know you like to help the new guys, but you almost tell them more than they need to know and make it harder on the rest of us. Especially me with how much of a noob I am now! LOL

[Bringer]

OmegaNull, on March 21 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

A scout doesn't need air compressor to be good. However, it opens up whole new avenue of maneuverability that just wasn't there before. And even more, allows you stay alive longer.

The damage you do coresponds to how long you have to do it. You act as if 'staying alive longer' is a seperate thing_ 'staying alive longer' is the difference between being killed or killing something.

Air compressor on a scout allows scout to safely go into the air. With out it they are TOW bait. Also when charging scout my next two TOW MUST HIT it or im probably ded, being able to do something infinitly frustrating like jumping over me then side dashing after a half turn mid air as its falling can throw my pre-aim off as i turn to blast it by it being further away than i am expecting when it lands. This not only makes my next TOW less likly to hit but also negated my glorious charge as scout is now far enough away to continue controlling range ;_;

Scout with air compressor is much more dangerous!

Hmm.. Maybe i modify tactic, to not just ram scout, but to jump over it! This will surely confuse tiny scout mind ( ^-^)b

[_vanzi]

It's so amusing to see all those people claiming that Scout is not OP. Or that it's difficult to play (I can't play it for fuzzy bunny yet I maintain ~4.0 k/d). The way it stands now, Scout is the perfect tool to get the entire enemy team rage quit.

[Desert_Fox2]

At a low level the Scout destroys everyone. Once you get up there with the better players it isn't so much. I still is very good at high level play but it isn't all powerful. Just work on getting better and you will find the good Scouts. Right now jut consider the guys you play as practice.

Edited by Desert_Fox2, March 21 2014 - 02:56 PM.

[Desert_Fox2]

Bringer, on March 21 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

The damage you do coresponds to how long you have to do it. You act as if 'staying alive longer' is a seperate thing_ 'staying alive longer' is the difference between being killed or killing something.

Air compressor on a scout allows scout to safely go into the air. With out it they are TOW bait. Also when charging scout my next two TOW MUST HIT it or im probably ded, being able to do something infinitly frustrating like jumping over me then side dashing after a half turn mid air as its falling can throw my pre-aim off as i turn to blast it by it being further away than i am expecting when it lands. This not only makes my next TOW less likly to hit but also negated my glorious charge as scout is now far enough away to continue controlling range ;_;

Scout with air compressor is much more dangerous!

Hmm.. Maybe i modify tactic, to not just ram scout, but to jump over it! This will surely confuse tiny scout mind ( ^-^)b

A couple things.

You shouldn't be even thinking about "charging a Scout unless you are in another Scout or maybe Raider. From all your posts that I have read it feels like you are assuming that the Scout is going to be standing still. It isn't unless you are using him for practice.
That reminds me.... OmegaNull and ShadowGTR owe me like 50 bucks each.

You say that a Scout with an air compressor should take to the skies. Anything that flies is dead faster than a blitzing Raider. Infils and Zerkers are they only real mechs that can get away with it. There is some logical reasoning behind this. The Scout doesn't have a ton of upfront fuel. That is really going to hinder you when you are back on the ground. You also have the lowest hit points of any of the other mechs in game. The Scout is meant to stay on the ground. That is where it has the most advantage. Also, dodges in the air use fuel. so you wouldn't be able to stay up more than eight seconds with dodging if you are lucky.

[Desert_Fox2]

Fuzzy Bunny double post......

Edited by Desert_Fox2, March 21 2014 - 02:56 PM.

[XyXly]

Desert_Fox2, on March 21 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

you wouldn't be able to stay up more than eight seconds with dodging if you are lucky.

Eight seconds_ That's a freaking eternity in a game like this, count it, and you'll realize how long that is.

[Stingz]

XyXly, on March 21 2014 - 03:31 PM, said:

Eight seconds_ That's a freaking eternity in a game like this, count it, and you'll realize how long that is.

Two and 2/3 of a Corsair shot, and that's probably without air-dodge burning fuel.

[Desert_Fox2]

XyXly, on March 21 2014 - 03:31 PM, said:

Eight seconds_ That's a freaking eternity in a game like this, count it, and you'll realize how long that is.

What he was saying is to just fly around. I was trying to give him an idea on how fast his fuel would burn. I would have to get in a match to measure it exactly but I think it would be close to that. I know eight seconds is a long time in a fight but that is about seven and a half seconds to long in the air.

[OmegaNull]

Desert_Fox2, on March 21 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

Bringer, on March 21 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

The damage you do coresponds to how long you have to do it. You act as if 'staying alive longer' is a seperate thing_ 'staying alive longer' is the difference between being killed or killing something.

Air compressor on a scout allows scout to safely go into the air. With out it they are TOW bait. Also when charging scout my next two TOW MUST HIT it or im probably ded, being able to do something infinitly frustrating like jumping over me then side dashing after a half turn mid air as its falling can throw my pre-aim off as i turn to blast it by it being further away than i am expecting when it lands. This not only makes my next TOW less likly to hit but also negated my glorious charge as scout is now far enough away to continue controlling range ;_;

Scout with air compressor is much more dangerous!

Hmm.. Maybe i modify tactic, to not just ram scout, but to jump over it! This will surely confuse tiny scout mind ( ^-^)b

A couple things.

You shouldn't be even thinking about "charging a Scout unless you are in another Scout or maybe Raider. From all your posts that I have read it feels like you are assuming that the Scout is going to be standing still. It isn't unless you are using him for practice.
That reminds me.... OmegaNull and ShadowGTR owe me like 50 bucks each.

You say that a Scout with an air compressor should take to the skies. Anything that flies is dead faster than a blitzing Raider. Infils and Zerkers are they only real mechs that can get away with it. There is some logical reasoning behind this. The Scout doesn't have a ton of upfront fuel. That is really going to hinder you when you are back on the ground. You also have the lowest hit points of any of the other mechs in game. The Scout is meant to stay on the ground. That is where it has the most advantage. Also, dodges in the air use fuel. so you wouldn't be able to stay up more than eight seconds with dodging if you are lucky.

I use air compressor but I use it sparingly. It is there to get position on someone and open up a new avenue of movement that wasn't previously there. Not to mention, diving into someoen and then in mid air dodging out of the way is nice. Air compressor should be an extension of what you do on the ground. NEVER hover unless it gives a distinct advantage.
Also, jumping, then quickly air dodging can completely disorient your opponent.

Also, Desert, it is actually 100.

Edited by OmegaNull, March 21 2014 - 08:56 PM.

[Phantasmo]

Scout shouldn't have such a long range radar, since it's not really an scout. It should rely on their team and portable radars.
Also, Scout is said to be a burst damage mech. This is false. Scout can pump lots of damage for a long (several seconds) time.

[Stingz]

Phantasmo, on March 22 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

Scout shouldn't have such a long range radar, since it's not really an scout. It should rely on their team and portable radars.
Also, Scout is said to be a burst damage mech. This is false. Scout can pump lots of damage for a long (several seconds) time.

At most that's the Mini-Flak(which heats up fast), and Scout has too little health for a sustained damage fight without cover.

[Phantasmo]

Stingz, on March 22 2014 - 07:33 PM, said:

Phantasmo, on March 22 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

Scout shouldn't have such a long range radar, since it's not really an scout. It should rely on their team and portable radars.
Also, Scout is said to be a burst damage mech. This is false. Scout can pump lots of damage for a long (several seconds) time.

At most that's the Mini-Flak(which heats up fast), and Scout has too little health for a sustained damage fight without cover.

TOW.
You can keep firing TOWs from cover forever.

The Scout is no scout, it's more like an assassination mech. It zooms up to you, discharges a huge payload then leaves.
That's not what a scout is supposed to do.