315 replies to this topic

[MechCraft]

March Patch Notes said:

Players can no longer fire their weapons immediately after boosting.

Having played quite a few rounds since the patch, I honestly can't say I'm a fan of this change. Combat feels much clunkier and unwieldy, with reduced emphasis on split second plays and clutch maneuvers. That's not to say clutch maneuvers aren't a thing anymore - it's just that we've lost one of the tools which helped enable them in the past.

It feels like the game's combat has lost some speed and depth, and I'm honestly not convinced it's for the better. We just got a round of movespeed buffs - yet in the same vein, we've lost one of the tools which helped accelerate and diversify Hawken's combat.

As far as I'm aware, no one ever requested the removal of boost-firing. It might not have been an intended mechanic but it did add another layer of potential maneuvers to Hawken's combat and it did make engagements feel faster and more fluid. Without it, the game just feels needlessly clunky.

Edited by MechCraft, March 27 2014 - 01:09 PM.

[Stingz]

Jumping after boosting to skip the delay was a bug.
Dodging at the end of a boost can offset this weakness, also give Raider's Blitz ability more value.

Edited by Stingz, March 27 2014 - 01:13 PM.

[Fstroke]

Disagree. It was a bug that allowed you to circumvent a subtle intended restriction in the game. That and it served as a leg up on anyone who was not aware of that little bug.

If the devs didnt want that restriction in the game then they wouldnt have put it in. Tapping the spacebar at the end of a boost to sucker punch someone did not really add "depth"

[nokari]

Boost firing was never an intended mechanic. It deserved to be removed. Honestly I never even used it and it's never stopped me from wrecking shop.

[JeffMagnum]

I personally don't like it either. A-Class CQC seems to be affected most and feels significantly less fluid, particularly when I'm using Scout or Infil. Regardless of whether or not this was a bug, its removal lowers the skill ceiling and makes some fairly difficult yet rewarding maneuvers impossible to pull off.

[SkyeBeats]

I'm gonna have to agree with Jeff on this, CQC as an A-Class does seem a bit chunky now and it isn't as smooth as before.

[RunaPanda]

JeffMagnum, on March 27 2014 - 02:06 PM, said:

I personally don't like it either. A-Class CQC seems to be affected most and feels significantly less fluid, particularly when I'm using Scout or Infil. Regardless of whether or not this was a bug, its removal lowers the skill ceiling and makes some fairly difficult yet rewarding maneuvers impossible to pull off.

For once I have to agree with you, it now feels like we're stuck to either ground combat or air combat, no more in between. Most other games allow this type of fire mechanics as a normal play function only seems to hurt combat and skill level instead of improving it.

[Hastur609]

As a somewhat new player who didn't even know this existed...wow, that'd explain some situations I've ended up in. Having never used that, I can't say I'll miss it too much.

[Ker4u]

nokari, on March 27 2014 - 01:18 PM, said:

Boost firing was never an intended mechanic. It deserved to be removed. Honestly I never even used it and it's never stopped me from wrecking shop.

have you played today_  enjoying   2 second delay after boosting_
this just sucks a lot of dynamic out of the game, and gives more advantage to defenders and will make gameplay more passive.

Edited by Ker4u, March 27 2014 - 02:20 PM.

[Duralumi]

nokari, on March 27 2014 - 01:18 PM, said:

Boost firing was never an intended mechanic. It deserved to be removed.

Not intended =/= Deserving of removal

Especially since it wasn't game-breaking, and instead bought more to the mobility table.

[MechCraft]

Fstroke, on March 27 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

It was a bug.

Just because something wasn't originally intended doesn't mean it's necessarily bad.

Quote

Tapping the spacebar at the end of a boost to sucker punch someone did not really add "depth"

There was much more to boost-firing than just "sucker punching". In higher levels of play, it was very commonly used to quickly reposition/break LoS during duels and skirmishes while still maintaining offensive capability. It also allowed for more fluid transitions between air and ground maneuvers and rewarded players who could effectively leverage both movement dynamics.

Basically this change was a terribly ironic and unecessary nerf to mobility which lowered the potential skill ceiling and slowed down the game's combat. And it feels terrible.

Edited by MechCraft, March 27 2014 - 02:57 PM.

[Stingz]

MechCraft, on March 27 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

There was much more to boost-dodging than just "sucker punching". In higher levels of play, it was very commonly used to quickly reposition/break LoS during duels and skirmishes while still maintaining offensive capability. It also allowed for more fluid transitions between air and ground maneuvers and rewarded players who could effectively leverage both movement dynamics.

Quite sure that inflated the value of Air Compressor also, to avoid eating a TOW rocket for hopping.

Edited by Stingz, March 27 2014 - 02:45 PM.

[Planerunner]

Honestly, what concerns me about this is the precedent: are we now going to see A class speeds get progressively nerfed while B and C classes are buffed_ Granted we just saw an across the board boost to speed for ALL mechs. But with all the recent forum griping about A classes and their 'OP-ness', I'm wondering what the devs intend to do_

No sir. I don't like it.

[Ker4u]

Planerunner, on March 27 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

Honestly, what concerns me about this is the precedent: are we now going to see A class speeds get progressively nerfed while B and C classes are buffed_ Granted we just saw an across the board boost to speed for ALL mechs. But with all the recent forum griping about A classes and their 'OP-ness', I'm wondering what the devs intend to do_

just take assault or inciniator press W  shoot and dodge sometimes, new hawken meta

[Daronicus]

I kind of like the change, honestly.  It's cool that skilled ground movement in a Type-A is just as viable as skilled air movement.  Air compressor no longer feels absolutely necessary on every speedy mech (though it's certainly still very good), and I'm ok with that.  I also never really felt that boost-jump-shoot-dodge was all that difficult to pull off, so no points from me for that argument.

With that said, part of me can't shake the feeling that it was necessary for Type-A's to truly excel in dueling situations.  I need more playtime to get a full picture, though.  Possibly everyone does.

I think there's room for compromise, though.  Maybe jumping still has a delay, just a shorter one_


Edit:  To clarify my first paragraph, I like some of the effects this change had, but I'm not yet sure it was the best way to accomplish them.  The current change might have unintended consequences.

Edited by Daronicus, March 27 2014 - 03:05 PM.

[nokari]

Duralumi, on March 27 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

nokari, on March 27 2014 - 01:18 PM, said:

Boost firing was never an intended mechanic. It deserved to be removed.

Not intended =/= Deserving of removal

Especially since it wasn't game-breaking, and instead bought more to the mobility table.

You mean the advantage table of someone who knows they can do it vs. someone who doesn't. The "shoots and gets hits first" vs. "boosts and shoots as intended" table.

[nokari]

Ker4u, on March 27 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

nokari, on March 27 2014 - 01:18 PM, said:

Boost firing was never an intended mechanic. It deserved to be removed. Honestly I never even used it and it's never stopped me from wrecking shop.

have you played today_  enjoying   2 second delay after boosting_
this just sucks a lot of dynamic out of the game, and gives more advantage to defenders and will make gameplay more passive.

Honestly not yet since I've been at work all day, but I've known about the space bar trick since Alpha and chose never to use it. So unless they increased the boost-to-shoot delay the game has always had, to most people nothing has changed. If they increased the delay, then that's a different issue than the unintended bug that this was.

[SoloCreep]

Thank you for the removal of boost firing. Those who are complaining about it will get used to it before they know it

[Fstroke]

You guys are kidding me with this lowering the skill cieling thing right_ "Reduce depth", "lowers skill cieling", this is just something people seem to say when they dont like something. You cant just say it and not explain why.

What if by tapping space bar while turning it automatically would negate the turn rate cap_ Does that raise the skill cieling somehow_ Would that be welcome to the game, bug or not_ Or what if just dodging in one direction negated the shock after landing from a hard fall_ That skill_ No its an exploit of an unintended mechanic.

As a matter of fact I would say that the post boost hop if left in the game, trivializes the decision of whether or not to use a forward boost in combat.

[BoompigXD]

I have never actually noticed it, mostly because i get around faster by boosting a little bit, rotating left, and then dodging.