11 replies to this topic

[Mykinius]

As much as I enjoy the SAARE and managing heat, there are a couple things that really bother me about the class.

Sound: The fireballs sound fine, but the miniguns sound like someone tapping on a water barrel. They should sound more like the gatlings they are. I would expect a powerful, high-pitched whir, but it just sounds like a toy.

SAARE refire rate: The SAARE can shoot more often than any other secondary, so why is it the only one without automatic fire_ Mashing right-click is a chore, and I hate feeling like I'm playing suboptimally because I can't possibly use it as fast as possible. Ideally, it would be a slow-firing automatic weapon like the other secondaries, but I could settle for more forgiving semi-accurate timing like the AM-SAR.

Ability: The special ability is worthless. Up to 200 damage is nice, but turning into a vulnerable sitting duck for seconds is not. To boot, this ability turns the mech's arms into a bizarre, vestigial hood ornament rather than the interestingly functional riot shields the other C-classes use.

Stats: 74 L of slowly regenerating fuel_ The only other mech that compares in this regard is the scout, which is the fastest mech in the game AND which has a refuel ability. Combined with its abysmal aerial movement (particularly hard to swallow given how aiming at the ground is the best way to use the SAARE), mobility with the incinerator feels unnecessarily hampered.

Passive heat absorption: This obnoxious mechanic tends to hurt me far more than it helps my allies and me. Overheating due to a sudden burst in nearby weapons fire feels like I've had control taken away from me, and enemies benefit from the passive cooling whenever they move near me to try to take me down (this is especially a problem with light and medium players who know that flying above and around a heavy is the best way not to get shot). Meanwhile, allies who stay next to me for the passive cooling are begging for us to be barraged by AoE fire due to our proximity.


All that said, I've noticed that Incinerators seem to be played more often than any other heavy mech. My guess is that it's way more interesting than the others, and nobody wants to feel bored in a game.


EDIT: Also, the Baby Bear seems to fire very slowly for an automatic weapon. Seems weird that it feels slow (even at full spin-up) compared to the assault rifle, SMC, or Hawkins RPR.

Edited by Mykinius, April 06 2014 - 04:33 PM.

[Wasabi_Wei]

I would disable the passive ability if it were an option - it's THAT bad. I think the fuel limitation is a bit of a pain, but probably necessary to prevent Incinerators from chasing everyone around the map laughing maniacally. (Similar to the Grenadiers drawbacks.)

[Crocket101]

I would end up losing control of the PPA fire rhythm if right click was full-auto. :/

[IareDave]

It's one of the fastest C-classes, has the highest dps, and assuming you're skillful enough you can basically fire any of it's weapons without overheating. Personally I use the PPA, because it gives a lot of heat and assuming you know how to arc the saare it can do some ridiculous damage. They had to limit the mech somehow; reduced fuel tank/regen and non-full auto saare are just to put it in a more balanced position.

To me it just looks like you're nit picking the small details

[Mykinius]

Crocket101, on April 06 2014 - 04:12 PM, said:

I would end up losing control of the PPA fire rhythm if right click was full-auto. :/

Except you wouldn't, because you could just click whenever you wanted like you can now. Slow-firing automatic weapons always have the option of firing one shot at a time if you don't hold down the trigger (other than burst fire, which the SAARE is obviously not).

IareDave, on April 06 2014 - 04:20 PM, said:

To me it just looks like you're nit picking the small details

For the most part, yes. They are small details. I've largely mitigated my fuel problems by getting the fuel converter internal (as a C-class, I'll be hit anyway, so I might as well use that for infinite combat flight). The feel of the miniguns is one of Hawken's many player feedback issues: games that foster excellent situational awareness (like TF2) have distinct sounds and effects for everything. It's unfortunate that many things in Hawken (like the incinerator's toy miniguns) lack the proper effects to make that kind atmosphere.

But then again, a worthless ability is nothing to sneeze at in terms of importance. Given how similar stats often are across weight classes, weapon options and activated abilities are what make each mech unique. It's unfortunate that (due to its uselessness), the incinerator effectively lacks one. Turret modes on other heavies are at least a nice option to have if you're confident you won't be flanked (they're not as good as the A- and B-class abilities, but at least they're not 100% useless).

Edited by Mykinius, April 06 2014 - 04:35 PM.

[kanamisan]

I dont want to sound mean, but I really have to laugh at anyone who thinks that taking damage, even reduced damage and making yourself a big target is a good idea, sa brawler might be able to get away from it when poking at range because it does have alot of it. but most classes except for the gernader are just sad with there fortress mode ability. the incinerator ability is so much better then you make it out to be. keep in mind that while it has a delay, it is a minor one before it fires and a minor one after. range is a bit to short, but again, its a very strong ability when a scout is hugging you, or someone is trying to goomba stomp you, it works amazingly well for finishing off other c class mechs when your near them and they are low. and it lets you finish off a slightly damaged a class in one hit in cqc. also, you are forgetting that the incinerator has the best flow out of any c class mech, that is that it can dance very well with even a class mechs and its weapons work well with it. also for anyone who hate the pasave ability, I can only assume your using the ppa, with the bby, I have had no problems helping my team sustain for longer. also, the sound effects will be reworked at a time when they have handled everything else that is more important for gameplay and the game overall. keeping in mind that they only have 18 members right now.

[IareDave]

Mykinius, on April 06 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:

But then again, a worthless ability is nothing to sneeze at in terms of importance. Given how similar stats often are across weight classes, weapon options and activated abilities are what make each mech unique. It's unfortunate that (due to its uselessness), the incinerator effectively lacks one. Turret modes on other heavies are at least a nice option to have if you're confident you won't be flanked (they're not as good as the A- and B-class abilities, but at least they're not 100% useless).

I disagree. There are many situations where the incinerators ability can be used. It's more of a last resort option but nonetheless I use it more than I would use turreted modes. If you're corner playing and about to die, click f and get a quick kill or soften them up a bit for your team. Also works If you're dealing with a face hugging flying bumble-bee zerker who got a little to close and is hovering above you. A strategy I like to do is pop a shield when on low health, lure a mech into chasing you, and get the ability in right when they enter the shield.

[Crocket101]

Clicking over and over for the primary weapon is very glitchy for the incinerator from my personal experience, I would lose out on some precious dps if I had to resort to clicking in a werid/overconfident fashion more so than the current pattern however. Every little bit with any C-class mech counts, especially one with a very good damage potential.

[kanamisan]

one other thing that really makes the incinerator amazing is its ablity to clear out items fast and with out wasting time. you can take a sheild out in about 4sec and a barricade out even faster. really great for both offence and def play. it does these roles better then other mechs because it does not have a dps penalty from sustained fire. also been thinking that the main point of the mother is to allow you to aim with both it and the saab at the same time. that allows you to make the most of the dps but takes more skill to use.

[Mykinius]

Sounds like I need to lrn2(use the ability correctly). All constructive responses.

Definitely enjoying incinerator otherwise though. I have a hella hard time hitting airborne targets, but that'll get a little better once Papa Bear lets me shred them.

[kanamisan]

Mykinius, on April 06 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

Sounds like I need to lrn2(use the ability correctly). All constructive responses.

Definitely enjoying incinerator otherwise though. I have a hella hard time hitting airborne targets, but that'll get a little better once Papa Bear lets me shred them.

actully a lot of the ppa dps comes from the fact that you can spam large fireballs. but that also cuts down your range as well, also the ppa is very hard to manage, so pratice with it in offline training for a bit before you bring it into a match, otherwise you will hurt badly.

[Fulano2]

I agree with IareDave.
Incinerator has some very strong goods. You never stop firing provided you can manage the heat properly. Its ability can deal more than 200 damage, and it is useful against A mechs which insist on flying around you like mosquitoes. Is one of the fastest C mechs available. It has to have some drawbacks, otherwise it would be FOR SURE OP... Everything has a price... The PPA needs a 3 second spinup before firing, has a small tank, and so on. For me it is good the way it is. Actually I can only play decently with Incinerator. althought i've been doing well with Berzerker too.