18 replies to this topic

[Skitzo1d]

I know this topic has been discussed before but mines different trust me so read on.

Simply really all I am asking is if you suck at using the heat, such as your a bad aimer and cant seem to hit fuzzy bunny with it for some reason (big part for me is almost everyone in the current meta flys and heat cannon is impossible to hit those fuzzy bunnies), then is the eoc going to be any easier to use or is it pretty much if you suck using the HC your going to suck using the Eoc_ Or possibly could be ok with the Eoc even if you suck with the HC_

with the heat cannon on my inf I go normally about 1.0 kdr but i switch back to the assault rifle and i can easily manage a 2.0.  So I know it must be my aim with that blasted gun lol, I hate it when it dont work but love it when i manage to get to hit someone, but most people are always flying and get the kill before you can run them out of fuel so .

Edited by Skitzo1d, April 25 2014 - 08:24 AM.

[FakeName]

It is confusing if you write HC for Heat Cannon because HC is used for Hawken credits.

I suggest to remain at the AR or just to give up the Infiltrator because EOC is one additional level above the Heat due to low fire rate; miss one shot, you lost the battle and need to dodge behind a wall fast, otherwise you die. You have no potential sustain in fights using the EOC. EOC stands for BURST potential and area control.

I suggest you the Berserker as it seems you are better with hitscan and sustained weapons. This little guy has a good dmg potential but low armor. Good to learn how to pilot an A class. If you managed to pilot this guy, switch to Scout, it will teach you how to NOT sustain in fights but more how to confuse your enemy so you deal dmg but your opponent doesn't. The keyword is POSITIONING.

If you mastered the Scout, try Infiltrator with the heat cannon. When you mastered that, try EOC. But do me a favor .. do not buy EOC now, you will fail.

PS: I like your signature .. it's cute

Edited by FakeName, April 25 2014 - 09:07 AM.

[Coboxite]

HEAT infiltrator stands a better chance in a straight on fight, but EOC is strictly for ambushing with inf.

[EliteShooter]

Slug rifle ... prestige 2.0












Coming soon on TNT.

[Skitzo1d]

Thanks for the reply,  as I already have the scout fully leveled out and do great on him (if im not using the heat cannon).  I love A class mechs and by design I do seem to do better with sustain but I know the deadly potential of burst because the scouts burst damage is awesome and I can do fine with its cause the flak is hitscan type. Its those more trickier slower type weapons that give me the most trouble.  If the opponent stays on the ground and isnt a super zipping A dodging freak I do ok with the heat cannon but soon as someone takes to the air where I cant splash damage to the ground next to them im screwed (which 99% do ).  I love the see the burst potential of the eoc repeater though and thats why im drawn to it. I love hitting someoen hard and fast and being gone before they even know I was there.

[Stingz]

Skitzo1d, on April 25 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

I love the burst potential of the EOC Repeater though and that's why I'm drawn to it. I love hitting someone hard and fast and being gone before they even know I was there.

EOC is possibly the wonkiest weapon I've ever used, if the target isn't stationary you need to use it somewhat like a sword.
"Slash" the EOC in the direction the enemy is moving. If the opponent tries to use cover, lay a short burst on the ground.
(Charging EOC loads more pucks)

Look into Raider if you like burst damage, can unlock T-32 for more burst, or EOC for defensive/ranged fights.

Edited by Stingz, April 25 2014 - 10:27 AM.

[Amisto]

Heat Take's a Long time to master.

when you get good though here is a checklist of things you should try to learn well.
Land a Heat shot on an enemy boosting full speed perpendicular to you (crossing your path).

Land a charged Heat round and air burst grenade in between 2 enemies that are close together, hitting both with both weapons. (this is good if you are trying to finish off 2 low health enemies that are clustered.)

Hitting air target with heat - you must track their falling and movement direction, and predict where they will be and fire at that point.

And lastly, Mastering uncharged shot - this is a must, as in close combat you should mostly be using uncharged shots.

3 Hit Combo
Charged shot ready - encounter enemy, fire, launch secondary, and immediately fire uncharged shot,  If you land these it takes about 1.5 seconds, and you just did 71 + 85 + 125 = 281 damage - you pretty much just won the fight if you didn't take any return fire,you can use another uncharged to finish off an A class, or get them to dodge, and finish with grenade. For Assault, you still have to continue to be cautious, but good thing is the bigger the mech, the easier it is to land uncharged heat, vs heavies, I soften them up to about half health before I fully engage on them, then circle dance to win.  Most people can't turn and aim very well.

[mittens800]

It's hard.  I know as soon as I hear heat cannon I start flying
But the closer you are the easier it is, so if you are using it indoors on flying opponents it's not too bad to land charged heat shot.

[SoldierHobbes11]

If you can't use te heat cannon, the EOC isn't going to be any easier for you to use. Both take an extensive amount of time to learn and even more to master. The heat cannon is definitely the easier of the two. I use both extensively. I'll be releasing videos on all the mechs, so look for the ones that use these weapons, as I will discuss in detail on them.

[Desert_Fox2]

SoldierHobbes11, on May 11 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:

If you can't use te heat cannon, the EOC isn't going to be any easier for you to use. Both take an extensive amount of time to learn and even more to master. The heat cannon is definitely the easier of the two. I use both extensively. I'll be releasing videos on all the mechs, so look for the ones that use these weapons, as I will discuss in detail on them.

In my case I tried the EOC but stunk. Then I started playing Heat Scout more. Of course I had to hit all the flying Zerkers and everything else that thought they could fly. I also got better at leading shots, etc, etc. (ETC=End of thinking capacity). Recently I went back to EOC, and behold. It is god mode! I get a 3.0+ damage ratio every game. I still have a ways to go, but playing Heat for a month or so should help you all you need.

[SoldierHobbes11]

Desert_Fox2, on May 11 2014 - 05:46 PM, said:

SoldierHobbes11, on May 11 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:

If you can't use te heat cannon, the EOC isn't going to be any easier for you to use. Both take an extensive amount of time to learn and even more to master. The heat cannon is definitely the easier of the two. I use both extensively. I'll be releasing videos on all the mechs, so look for the ones that use these weapons, as I will discuss in detail on them.

In my case I tried the EOC but stunk. Then I started playing Heat Scout more. Of course I had to hit all the flying Zerkers and everything else that thought they could fly. I also got better at leading shots, etc, etc. (ETC=End of thinking capacity). Recently I went back to EOC, and behold. It is god mode! I get a 3.0+ damage ratio every game. I still have a ways to go, but playing Heat for a month or so should help you all you need.

Agreed. That's kind of how things went for me. H-Cannon and EOC-R take patience to use above all else. If you don't have that patience, then these weapons won't work so well for you.

[n3onfx]

Weirdly enough I'm much better with the EOC than the HEAT, while you have to lead with both they are still quite different. The EOC gives more chance to hit (useful in case you need to land just a little bit more damage quickly) but you have to lead the target until all pucks have left the muzzle. With the HEAT it's just lead -> shoot, and with EOC it's lead -> shoot -> keep leading.

The EOC also has no drop-off, you can shoot it in a straight line and it will cross the map. The HEAT is "harder" in my opinion since you have to manage both charged and un-charged shots that handle very differently, whereas the EOC charge only makes it fire more pucks that behave the same as an uncharged EOC shot.

Either way you'll miss a ton at first, especially with the EOC. In my opinion the EOC is harder to use overall but easier to master to optimal efficiency. The HEAT is easier to learn but harder to use to full potential.

If you have enough spare HC to buy it without being broke why not give it a try, and you'll suck at it at first which is completely normal. It really is a weapon that takes learning.

Edited by n3onfx, May 12 2014 - 02:16 PM.

[IareDave]

Heat will always be the king. The concept and mechanics behind pucks make them very easy to dodge, whereas a heat shot is realible at all ranges

Edited by IareDave, May 12 2014 - 07:27 PM.

[Sylhiri]

n3onfx, on May 12 2014 - 02:10 PM, said:

The EOC also has no drop-off, you can shoot it in a straight line and it will cross the map.

Depending on the distance the pucks will gradually move upwards. The first one will be straight while the second puck will be above it, the third one will be above the second one and so on. I believe this is do to the slight recoil on the gun. You can test this out by shooting at the ground long distance, the pucks will spread in a line rather then on top of each other. If you want to shoot someone across sahara and hit them in the same area then you would have to very carefully move your gun in a downwards direction as it is firing.

You don't notice it at short/medium ranges because the distance in height between each puck is small but it does impact long range shots.

Edited by Sylhiri, May 12 2014 - 09:12 PM.

[n3onfx]

Sylhiri, on May 12 2014 - 09:10 PM, said:

n3onfx, on May 12 2014 - 02:10 PM, said:

The EOC also has no drop-off, you can shoot it in a straight line and it will cross the map.

Depending on the distance the pucks will gradually move upwards. The first one will be straight while the second puck will be above it, the third one will be above the second one and so on. I believe this is do to the slight recoil on the gun. You can test this out by shooting at the ground long distance, the pucks will spread in a line rather then on top of each other. If you want to shoot someone across sahara and hit them in the same area then you would have to very carefully move your gun in a downwards direction as it is firing.

You don't notice it at short/medium ranges because the distance in height between each puck is small but it does impact long range shots.

I didn't know that. The effect is small enough though that on Bazaar you can be at the AA and hit a sniper that's in the corners of the map with all 3 pucks without moving the gun. I've already done it without any aim adjustements during the shots since I didn't know about the recoil and the hit indicator triggers 3 times.

Edited by n3onfx, May 13 2014 - 01:30 AM.

[Sylhiri]

n3onfx, on May 13 2014 - 01:29 AM, said:

I didn't know that. The effect is small enough though that on Bazaar you can be at the AA and hit a sniper that's in the corners of the map with all 3 pucks without moving the gun. I've already done it without any aim adjustements during the shots since I didn't know about the recoil and the hit indicator triggers 3 times.

Charged shots are definitely more noticeable. Since the DPS is the same charged/uncharged I usually always charge shots unless I can't during a 1v1 engagement. Against the heat cannon, EOC 3 second charge time vs heat cannons 2.15 second charge time is very noticeable. Heat Cannon's charge time actually lowers the DPS from the uncharged 76.06 damage to the charged 39.53 damage, while EOC DPS remains 52 charged or uncharged. It's actually better to use uncharged shots then charged shots for the heat cannon.

In a fight the heat cannon is superior because it pumps out damage faster and has a more reliable, faster and higher damage splash then mines do both charged and uncharged. Long ranged fights are just horrible on both ends, charged EOC doesn't gain a speed increase but the heat cannon does while adding an arc to the shot. EOC is slightly better against air opponents but it is also slower rate of fire, in both cases the best weapon is the GL. You can get some damage but the majority of damage is still coming from your secondary.

In high tier matches the EOC isn't that reliable because it just doesn't have the rate of fire to keep up with other weapons, it's actually the slowest primary in the game. With a low TTK you really can't afford to be slow, Siege and MA are great for it but TDM is the go to mode for scrims and high tier play.

Edited by Sylhiri, May 13 2014 - 07:19 AM.

[Frisbee_Player]

Using the heat cannon is all about positioning... you have to make the fight work the way you need it to, its easiest to learn it on the scout first then go to the infiltrator.

[Silk_Sk]

Frisbee_Player, on June 02 2014 - 05:16 AM, said:

Using the heat cannon is all about positioning... you have to make the fight work the way you need it to, its easiest to learn it on the scout first then go to the infiltrator.

But not the other way around, oddly. The HEAT cannon in the infil is by far my most overall used weapon in Hawken. But I absolutely cannot run a HEAT scout. I keep angling my TOW shots up because I'm so used to using the GL with the HEAT cannon.

[IIIShadow_SparkIII]

The wierd thing about me seeing this thread is...

I'm better with eoc_r than with heat cannon. I ran eoc_r on my inf waaay before i even tried the heat on anything, the most noticable diference is the fire type: is a burst-sustained(as i like to call it), where as the heat cannon is just a burst.

Burst-sustained, by my definition is basically a when something fires a series of induvidual shots in a burst instead of one projectile or blast.again, this is a term that i thought of, but has probably been used before somewhere. another example of this firetype is the prestige tech weapon(i think).

This is one of the biggest differences between the two and, in my opinion one of the main reasons why i do fairly well with it: If you dont with the first puck, you can hit with the second or third, and so on. Also having a consistent projectile speed is nice.


Also I mostly play siege.