18 replies to this topic

[Wraithknight]

ok, so I understand the premise of the PPA, but I cannot for the life of me get the hang of not instantly overheating or not having the damn thing doing any consistent damage.  What's a good method for not overheating but still being able to control your damage output and spend less time worrying about keeping your guns going than actually trying to hit anything_

[Silverfire]

Keep the PPA constantly spooled and on the verge of firing.  Fire a short burst of PPA and then dump the heat out with the alternate SAARE. Rinse and repeat.  Couple shots of PPA, couple shots of SAARE, etc.

[Audible_Silence]

i was havuing the same issue... spin up the PPA, then first 4 shots, fire off big SAARE, then repeat.

You CAN NOT fire more than prolly 10 shots without overheating, so dont think about throwing tons of lead down range.

[jrkong]

Hmm learn to keep your eye on the heat bar and fire the PPA constantly firing SAARE shots, secondary mode of course, and pause occasionally to shoot 2 SAARE balls to get rid of the extra heat. Also keep it ALWAYS spun up I always boost for 2 seconds then stop to quickly maintain my spin.

[ticklemyiguana]

http://www.twitch.tv...acius/c/4149059
This is xacius playing it. Just note the timing while he's covering the doorway. (most of the game). Keep practicing.

[mkultra77]

whirrr whirrr taka taka taka boom! taka taka boom! taka taka boom! taka taka taka taka boom! boom! whirrr whirrr...

[EliteShooter]

 ticklemyiguana, on May 05 2014 - 06:48 PM, said:

http://www.twitch.tv...acius/c/4149059
This is xacius playing it. Just note the timing while he's covering the doorway. (most of the game). Keep practicing.

Thanks, I was too lazy to find that link, even tho I was planning to find it for him ... lol

[Hyginos]

 Silverfire, on May 05 2014 - 03:00 PM, said:

Keep the PPA constantly spooled and on the verge of firing.  Fire a short burst of PPA and then dump the heat out with the alternate SAARE. Rinse and repeat.  Couple shots of PPA, couple shots of SAARE, etc.

I do this, but I'm wondering if its sub-optimal because I tend to overheat when a nearby mech (or mechs) start shooting in the middle of the PPA burst. I think the SAARE should come first, and then the ppa used to replenish lost heat (eg: Boom dakadaka instead of dakadaka Boom). That way you can modulate the ppa burst farther below the overheat threshold. It should give you more control over your heat levels in the presence of other mechs.

Unfortunately PPA first has become muscle memory to some degree. Will report back when successfully re-trained.

[craftydus]

I lost 270 mmr in order to learn the Papa. But It was worth it.

[jrkong]

 Hyginos, on May 06 2014 - 06:41 AM, said:

 Silverfire, on May 05 2014 - 03:00 PM, said:

Keep the PPA constantly spooled and on the verge of firing.  Fire a short burst of PPA and then dump the heat out with the alternate SAARE. Rinse and repeat.  Couple shots of PPA, couple shots of SAARE, etc.

I do this, but I'm wondering if its sub-optimal because I tend to overheat when a nearby mech (or mechs) start shooting in the middle of the PPA burst. I think the SAARE should come first, and then the ppa used to replenish lost heat (eg: Boom dakadaka instead of dakadaka Boom). That way you can modulate the ppa burst farther below the overheat threshold. It should give you more control over your heat levels in the presence of other mechs.

Unfortunately PPA first has become muscle memory to some degree. Will report back when successfully re-trained.

I prioritize heat bar>muscle memory if you learn to watch the heat bar and continuously spam SAARE shots you'll be fine. Muscle memory is good and all but if you learn to shoot the PPA based off of the heat bar you will never overheat even in the craziest of fights.

Edited by jrkong, May 06 2014 - 12:16 PM.

[Stingz]

 jrkong, on May 06 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

I prioritize heat bar>muscle memory if you learn to watch the heat bar and continuously spam SAARE shots you'll be fine. Muscle memory is good and all but if you learn to shoot the PPA based off of the heat bar you will never overheat even in the craziest of fights.

Much better to watch the heat than memory, especially when someone with a Vulcan decides to facehug to heat you up.

Edited by Stingz, May 06 2014 - 12:56 PM.

[jrkong]

 Stingz, on May 06 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

 jrkong, on May 06 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

I prioritize heat bar>muscle memory if you learn to watch the heat bar and continuously spam SAARE shots you'll be fine. Muscle memory is good and all but if you learn to shoot the PPA based off of the heat bar you will never overheat even in the craziest of fights.

Much better to watch the heat than memory, especially when someone with a Vulcan decides to facehug to heat you up.

Usually if this happens, if situation permits (no other enemies around or if I got a spare Heat Charge) I just weaken them enough to Heat Dispersion them to teach them it's never a smart idea to hug an Incinerator unless you're a friendly tech.

Edited by jrkong, May 06 2014 - 01:58 PM.

[SectionZ]

The PPA is not so much a gun, as it is a heat provider that happens to be powered by bullets (Let's take a look at that in game accuracy rating on the Papa... 7.  Flak cannon is 10, Point D vulcan is 44, for comparison).  It is not there to shoot people, it is there to enable your Godzilla impression with nonstop Large fireballs.

When I use the PPA, I have had the best luck not even considering hitting people with the gun on purpose, and just using it to provide for a nonstop stream of large fireballs (remember, utility fire switches you to bigger fireballs that take more heat).  Watch your heat, use M1 to manage heat, if you happen to hit somebody with bullets then it is a pleasant bonus while you focus your entire aim on GODZILLA BREATH instead of trying to split aim between weapons.

When I want to shoot people with a gun, I use the Baby, or the Mama.  Mama may be projectiles instead of hitscan, but it's heat build up is in that sweet spot where you can sustain fire while lobbing nonstop large fireballs.  Baby you can practically tape the M1 down unless you are standing in a heat mine, and in that case of if you think you are at risk of overheating you just switch from small fireballs to big ones.

While we are on tips with the Incinerator's more awkward weapons, be careful with that ability.  The big downside is not it's range, but the fact it forces your weapons into the startup animation so you can't even start firing again for a few seconds.  Most of the time it is more practical to just keep shooting or pitch a few more fireballs at the enemy, but it has been delightful in finishing off half health Technicians.  Or putting the hurt on a group of enemies like a fat suicide bomber you know your team will clean up off of the AA or missile silo.

Probably 90% of my Incinerator ability kills are against Techs.  90% of my "Awww MAN, it didn't kill them and now I am dead because I can't shoot for three+ seconds" ability botches are against damaged scouts who came out with 5-15 health left, but I was too lazy to try and nail with another fireball or two.

Honorable mention:  Ability kills on pursuing Predators who have nailed me with EMP.

TL;DR:  Just forget about consistent damage from the PAPA itself, and treat it like a novelty heater that just happens to shoot things by coincidence sometimes while you vomit out M2 large fireballs.

Edited by SectionZ, May 07 2014 - 01:34 PM.

[jrkong]

 SectionZ, on May 07 2014 - 01:29 PM, said:

TL;DR:  Just forget about consistent damage from the PAPA itself, and treat it like a novelty heater that just happens to shoot things by coincidence sometimes while you vomit out M2 large fireballs.

You're missing out on a lot of damage my friend you'll be much better off with the M4MA if that's how you use the PPA. You'll hit more and deal more damage. I agree the accuracy on the PPA is so so but it works as a great finisher due to the number of bullets you spit out. Change them based on the situation: SAARE to lower HP and PPA to finish. Also you might want to note at some ranges the PPA's spread actually makes it possible to hit enemies even when you're compensating for the SAARE's parabolic drop.

As for your ability problem: toss a Heat Charge and you'll be able to toss SAARE shots as your PPA revs up or it gives you the option to fire the F-bomb again if your first shot wasn't enough to finish off your target.

Edited by jrkong, May 07 2014 - 04:13 PM.

[SoldierHobbes11]

 jrkong, on May 07 2014 - 04:11 PM, said:

As for your ability problem: toss a Heat Charge and you'll be able to toss SAARE shots as your PPA revs up or it gives you the option to fire the F-bomb again if your first shot wasn't enough to finish off your target.

-Smacks self in forehead- Why I did not think of this sooner, eludes me.... But the charge has a 3 second delay to it, so if you are going to use it in this manner, you have to toss it out before you use your ability. And lol, f-bomb. Again, why didn't I think of this before_ It's pretty much what goes through my head when I use it. Especially when I use it just before dying.

[SectionZ]

 jrkong, on May 07 2014 - 04:11 PM, said:

You're missing out on a lot of damage my friend you'll be much better off with the M4MA if that's how you use the PPA. You'll hit more and deal more damage. I agree the accuracy on the PPA is so so but it works as a great finisher due to the number of bullets you spit out. Change them based on the situation: SAARE to lower HP and PPA to finish. Also you might want to note at some ranges the PPA's spread actually makes it possible to hit enemies even when you're compensating for the SAARE's parabolic drop.

As for your ability problem: toss a Heat Charge and you'll be able to toss SAARE shots as your PPA revs up or it gives you the option to fire the F-bomb again if your first shot wasn't enough to finish off your target.

  I suppose waist deep in combat firing duration of "Two seconds of bullets before you have to let go of M1 or overheat" while small and sad on it's own, does add up over time from how often it happens.  I wasn't joking when I said I have better luck when I just focus on aiming the fireballs and let whatever Papa damage happens, happen though.  Just because I'm trying to land fireballs as a priority doesn't mean I literally never aim the Papa at them.  Though against enemy C classes the Papa can be of some readily tangible note even with that amount of "aim".  Baby has spoiled me for "Shoot the flying A Class with bullets" quality, but if you are mostly up against close quarters fatties or Raiders, may as well enjoy the bigger gun needing less aim to hit them.

  You have a LOT more leeway if no enemies or allies are anywhere near you with the papa, at least 8 large fireballs worth of time, more if you're clickspamming enough.  But once you actually get in there or allies are beside you firing TOWS, not so much.  Sure, heat absorption all by itself doesn't seem to be able to raise your bar past a certain point.  But that point is 1, sometimes two Papa bullets shy of overheating.

Papa is beloved by the Incinerators I see who just hang back all from the AA match, for obvious reasons.  Can't spam large fireballs from a safe distance as well with the Baby.

 SoldierHobbes11, on May 07 2014 - 05:46 PM, said:

 jrkong, on May 07 2014 - 04:11 PM, said:

As for your ability problem: toss a Heat Charge and you'll be able to toss SAARE shots as your PPA revs up or it gives you the option to fire the F-bomb again if your first shot wasn't enough to finish off your target.

-Smacks self in forehead- Why I did not think of this sooner, eludes me.... But the charge has a 3 second delay to it, so if you are going to use it in this manner, you have to toss it out before you use your ability. And lol, f-bomb. Again, why didn't I think of this before_ It's pretty much what goes through my head when I use it. Especially when I use it just before dying.

Toss it inside AA bunkers (if available) the enemy is holed up inside, waddle in, and mash M2 or even get some Ability Kills while they have to either run away or overheat.  Good times on Origin.  Remember the heat mine will be thrown farther if you hold the item button down.

As for not being able to shoot right after ability, I meant more that I keep getting slammed with the "you overheated/Mech spawn weapons raise" animations locking me out of so much as starting to spin up my gun, or fire my SAARE if I am inside a heat mine.  I can't seem to replicate it in training mode, so I am wondering if it is a strange latency bug where I fire off the ability before overheat at really high heat (because more heat = more damage), but the game still thinks I overheated anyways despite dumping all my heat.

[jrkong]

 SectionZ, on May 07 2014 - 09:22 PM, said:

 jrkong, on May 07 2014 - 04:11 PM, said:

You're missing out on a lot of damage my friend you'll be much better off with the M4MA if that's how you use the PPA. You'll hit more and deal more damage. I agree the accuracy on the PPA is so so but it works as a great finisher due to the number of bullets you spit out. Change them based on the situation: SAARE to lower HP and PPA to finish. Also you might want to note at some ranges the PPA's spread actually makes it possible to hit enemies even when you're compensating for the SAARE's parabolic drop.

As for your ability problem: toss a Heat Charge and you'll be able to toss SAARE shots as your PPA revs up or it gives you the option to fire the F-bomb again if your first shot wasn't enough to finish off your target.

  I suppose waist deep in combat firing duration of "Two seconds of bullets before you have to let go of M1 or overheat" while small and sad on it's own, does add up over time from how often it happens.  I wasn't joking when I said I have better luck when I just focus on aiming the fireballs and let whatever Papa damage happens, happen though.  Just because I'm trying to land fireballs as a priority doesn't mean I literally never aim the Papa at them.  Though against enemy C classes the Papa can be of some readily tangible note even with that amount of "aim".  Baby has spoiled me for "Shoot the flying A Class with bullets" quality, but if you are mostly up against close quarters fatties or Raiders, may as well enjoy the bigger gun needing less aim to hit them.

  You have a LOT more leeway if no enemies or allies are anywhere near you with the papa, at least 8 large fireballs worth of time, more if you're clickspamming enough.  But once you actually get in there or allies are beside you firing TOWS, not so much.  Sure, heat absorption all by itself doesn't seem to be able to raise your bar past a certain point.  But that point is 1, sometimes two Papa bullets shy of overheating.

Papa is beloved by the Incinerators I see who just hang back all from the AA match, for obvious reasons.  Can't spam large fireballs from a safe distance as well with the Baby.

 SoldierHobbes11, on May 07 2014 - 05:46 PM, said:

 jrkong, on May 07 2014 - 04:11 PM, said:

As for your ability problem: toss a Heat Charge and you'll be able to toss SAARE shots as your PPA revs up or it gives you the option to fire the F-bomb again if your first shot wasn't enough to finish off your target.

-Smacks self in forehead- Why I did not think of this sooner, eludes me.... But the charge has a 3 second delay to it, so if you are going to use it in this manner, you have to toss it out before you use your ability. And lol, f-bomb. Again, why didn't I think of this before_ It's pretty much what goes through my head when I use it. Especially when I use it just before dying.

Toss it inside AA bunkers (if available) the enemy is holed up inside, waddle in, and mash M2 or even get some Ability Kills while they have to either run away or overheat.  Good times on Origin.  Remember the heat mine will be thrown farther if you hold the item button down.

Very honestly I use my PPA everywhere sure it loses a bit of leeway if you're around others but honestly, it hasn't stopped me from rushing headfirst into an AA or into a friendly heavy firefight. Like you said fireballs are my main focus but being able to off 4-5 bullets every few seconds isn't anything to laugh at. Either I'm lucky or even when I'm swarmed the PPA is a viable finisher regardless but I've been using the PPA SAARE combo long enough to know roughly how much leeway I have with SAARE fireball AoE to kill so I use both to finish. A fun strategy I go by sometimes is to use the SAARE as deterrent to make the enemy mech fly into my PPA's range.

I haven't used my Heat Charges as an area denial tool in a while they're soo much more useful for covering my back when I need to finish off an A mech that's buzzing around in the air quickly. It makes me wish I could carry soo many more of them because I get so much use out of it.

I don't know if my MMR is too low or something but I rarely see PPAs at the 1800-2000s range so I just shred most of my enemies with my PPA and break through AAs by loobing my large fireballs.

 SoldierHobbes11, on May 07 2014 - 05:46 PM, said:

 jrkong, on May 07 2014 - 04:11 PM, said:

As for your ability problem: toss a Heat Charge and you'll be able to toss SAARE shots as your PPA revs up or it gives you the option to fire the F-bomb again if your first shot wasn't enough to finish off your target.

-Smacks self in forehead- Why I did not think of this sooner, eludes me.... But the charge has a 3 second delay to it, so if you are going to use it in this manner, you have to toss it out before you use your ability. And lol, f-bomb. Again, why didn't I think of this before_ It's pretty much what goes through my head when I use it. Especially when I use it just before dying.

I always toss the Heat Charge before I pop the ability for the reason you mentioned there AND because you start gaining heat before the animation fully finishes so you can almost immediately follow up with large SAARE shots or F-bomb again. Tbh I've always wanted to see the look on the person's face when they narrowly survive the first F-bomb just to be hit by the one I follow up with. I swear, killing with the F-bomb is the most satisfying thing you can do with the Incinerator especially when you use it to kill an A mech which is buzzing around you.

Edited by jrkong, May 07 2014 - 10:13 PM.

[SectionZ]

 jrkong, on May 07 2014 - 10:10 PM, said:

Very honestly I use my PPA everywhere sure it loses a bit of leeway if you're around others but honestly, it hasn't stopped me from rushing headfirst into an AA or into a friendly heavy firefight. Like you said fireballs are my main focus but being able to off 4-5 bullets every few seconds isn't anything to laugh at. Either I'm lucky or even when I'm swarmed the PPA is a viable finisher regardless but I've been using the PPA SAARE combo long enough to know roughly how much leeway I have with SAARE fireball AoE to kill so I use both to finish. A fun strategy I go by sometimes is to use the SAARE as deterrent to make the enemy mech fly into my PPA's range.

I haven't used my Heat Charges as an area denial tool in a while they're soo much more useful for covering my back when I need to finish off an A mech that's buzzing around in the air quickly. It makes me wish I could carry soo many more of them because I get so much use out of it.

I don't know if my MMR is too low or something but I rarely see PPAs at the 1800-2000s range so I just shred most of my enemies with my PPA and break through AAs by loobing my large fireballs.

Nice.  No matter what I think about a gun, if you are kicking ass with the PPA itself with zero problems then clearly you are doing something more right with it. I've not had as much luck in shooting anything but C's or less dodgey B classes with my own PPA even in prime vulcan range.

If it helps, there ARE higher versions to carry more heat mines.  But I'm an incredible cheapskate when it comes to the deployable Items so as much as I love my incinerator I'm still using the default freebie.

But I am sure the MKIII Heat mine is TOTALLY worth the same 6,510 HC pricetag as the MK III EMP or MK III Machinegun turre-oh I can't even type that with a straight face.  Ugh.  The pricetags on Mechs and internals I have no issues with (in tracking my earnings, Rank 5 on average was around 15k rank 6 was around 18-19k).  But the pricetags on Deployable Items and Guns is just painfully bonkers.  It costs literally the same to unlock both guns on my Recruit (still locked to this day, even though I am unlocking the guns on other mechs on principle) as it does to buy a Predator of Assault G2, etc.

Edited by SectionZ, May 08 2014 - 11:43 PM.

[jrkong]

 SectionZ, on May 08 2014 - 11:42 PM, said:

Nice.  No matter what I think about a gun, if you are kicking ass with the PPA itself with zero problems then clearly you are doing something more right with it. I've not had as much luck in shooting anything but C's or less dodgey B classes with my own PPA even in prime vulcan range.

If it helps, there ARE higher versions to carry more heat mines.  But I'm an incredible cheapskate when it comes to the deployable Items so as much as I love my incinerator I'm still using the default freebie.

But I am sure the MKIII Heat mine is TOTALLY worth the same 6,510 HC pricetag as the MK III EMP or MK III Machinegun turre-oh I can't even type that with a straight face.  Ugh.  The pricetags on Mechs and internals I have no issues with (in tracking my earnings, Rank 5 on average was around 15k rank 6 was around 18-19k).  But the pricetags on Deployable Items and Guns is just painfully bonkers.  It costs literally the same to unlock both guns on my Recruit (still locked to this day, even though I am unlocking the guns on other mechs on principle) as it does to buy a Predator of Assault G2, etc.

Well I don't know if I'm doing anything more right then you are for the PPA but I'm landing like 80% of my shots on Bs and Cs at prime vulcan range. Even though it seems like it has a lot of spread as long as you keep the crosshair loosely on the targets enough bullets will land for it to make a difference. Heck I actually like the larger spread to a degree since it means my PPA bullets still land on the target even when I'm compensating for SAARE drop at close and mid range. At the moment I tend to compare the PPA to the miniflak or the vulcan, just keep the crosshair relatively close and shots will land.

I agree so much prices on items are expensive as hell. Actually MK III items look like they're actually a bit more expensive then weapons themselves. Only items I've ever pulled the trigger on was the MKIII Machine Gun Turret for my tech and the Mk III Heat Charge for my incinerator just yesterday. More Heat Charge=more semi safe f-bombs. I find that it's really good for DM where you need to be quick so you don't have others hoping in on your fight and taking your kill.