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Differences Between the Predator and the Infiltrator-- A Guide by 21st


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#1 TwentyFirstPilot

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Posted June 27 2014 - 05:33 PM

First of all, know this: While the Infiltrator and Predator can cloak, they can't go invisible. When active, both mechs leave a fuzzy outline that any experienced player can quickly spot, so long as they're looking directly at you. Some argue that such makes cloaking useless, but I say not.

The Infiltrator's active camouflage ability has a cooldown of about forty seconds. It lasts as long as the Infiltrator has fuel. Generating heat deactivates the cloak. Boosting doesn't, but doing so means that the Infiltrator's cloak won't last as long.

Due to the above restrictions, an Infiltrator spends most of his time uncloaked, like any normal mech. Due to what I've said so far, you might be tempted to agree with those players who believe that cloaking is useless. However, if you've carefully picked over what I've said, you'll know that far from the case. This is because a cloaked Infiltrator is removed from the radar entirely, even while boosting. Such is tremendously helpful while escaping and while initiating attacks.

Due to these points, the Infiltrator is a powerful mech designed for hit and run assassinations.

TL;DR Infil's cloak is for evading detection via radar, it is not for hiding.


--


The Predator, on the other hand, is an entirely different beast. Do not ever mistake a Predator for an Infiltrator. Doing so guarantees you a swift and confusing death.

Stalker Mode, the Predator's special ability, is simultaneously an upgrade and a downgrade to the Infiltrator's Active Camouflage. Like AC, SM causes the Predator to become nothing more than a dull blur. Unlike AC, SM lasts indefinitely. Like AC, SM deactivates if the Predator generates heat. Unlike AC, SM deactivates if the Predator takes damage. Unlike AC, SM deactivates if the Predator boosts, dodges, or flies. Like AC, SM increases the Predator's walk speed. Unlike AC, SM allows a Predator to see mechs, both friendly and hostile, through grayscale terrain. This is what makes Stalker Mode viable, this is what makes the Predator an amazing, versatile mech suitable to any role-- so long as its pilot is skilled enough.

The Predator is notoriously difficult to play. This is for several reason. Most notably, the Predator is a slow mech, its weapons have a slow rate of fire (though they hit like a couple of piled up semi trucks), and the Predator relies on positioning more than most B and A class mechs.

The Predator can be a simple mine layer, but to stick to that role is to drastically underutilize your mech. To be effective, a Predator pilot must employ many different tactics during a match. What tactics that pilot uses depends on his skill at the controls and his ability to read his opponents.

Examples of these tactics include:

The boogyman. The boogyman's goal is not to destroy mechs. Rather, it's to psyche the enemy and let them know that there really aren't any safe places to hide.

The garbage man. The garbage man's goal is to find and dispose of mechs that have been damaged by teammates and are frantically searching for a place to repair. Stalker Mode makes the Predator terrifyingly effective at this role. One can argue that this is the Predator's natural role, and they'd be right.

The assault Predator. The assault Predator is a difficult tactic to employ, mainly because it goes against everything the Predator is designed to do well. However, an experienced Predator pilot can make this role work, though it usually requires the air compressor internal. The assault Predator's role is less of a role as it is a state used to gauge the battlefield. Stick near your team, attack the baddies, fly around, run and swap to a flanking role as soon as the situation presents itself.

The flanker. The flanker's role is to-- you guessed it! --flank. This is an extremely fun role to play, though it requires a pilot to be patient and to know how to read the battlefield. A good flank can destroy an enemy front line, a good flank can psyche out the enemy, a good flank can distract the enemy long enough for your allies to break in, a good flank can take out the enemy team's Technician, a good flank can cause absolute chaos behind enemy lines.

The miner. The miner's role-- if it can be called that --is to lay traps then lure enemies into them. This role by itself is pretty boring and often useless for your team. Play this role for seconds at a time, play this role in combination with others. If you're flanking and are afraid you might be chased back, lay a trap along your escape route. If you notice a chokepoint, spray some mines there and continue on.

The scout. The scout's role is to relay information back to his allies. This role is a bit difficult to play in pub matches, due to how the VOIP system is a bit buggy at times. Like the miner, this is more of a sub role. Don't dedicate yourself to spotting, but alert your team if you have critical information for them.

The denier. The denier's motto is this: The ground is lava! The denier devotes himself to being a long range area denial extraordinaire. The EOC Repeater is a required primary in order to fill this role to any extent. The Repeater makes the denier less effective at solo roles. For that reason, the denier should hide out with his buddies, blasting dual EOC fury across the map from the back of the pack anywhere one may suspect the enemy to run towards.

This is the Predator. It can fill so many, many roles, so long as you're willing to learn those roles. When piloting a Predator, you are an artist and the battlefield is your clay. You can take the time to learn and make something beautiful of it, or you can smear it everywhere and whine on the forums about how clay is underpowered and Assault fingerpaint is better in every conceivable way.

TL:DR The Predator is amazing and it can fill every role on the battlefield if you'll take the time to learn it.


Notes:
Questions, comments, or corrections_ Let me know if you have any!

Looking for a good Infiltrator pilot with a bit of time of his/her hands to help me rewrite the Infiltrator section. PM if interested.

Please note that my section on the Infiltrator is smaller than my section of the Predator by virtue of the fact that I have less experience with the Infiltrator and am therefore not qualified to offer tips and tricks on its usage. I just know the basic facts gained by examining the mech and seeing it in action.

My wording may be a bit odd in places. For example, my introductory paragraph is a bit blunt. This is because I originally wrote this guide as a reply to a dude on /r/Hawken. Decided to post it here after I realized that I had actually written something half decent. I may later pretty up my formatting.

I'm thinking about writing individual guides based off of each tactic I mentioned, complete with gameplay videos. Are we interested in that_ Also, anyone know of any good, free screen recorders_

Edited by TwentyFirstPilot, June 29 2014 - 04:07 PM.

Aspiring Professional Yolodriver


View PostAmidatelion, on May 24 2014 - 01:36 AM, said:

Yeah, but dude, we are at 1750. As much as we would like to be Professional Yolodrivers like you [Meraple] and Lightangel112, we're not there yet. It's something to aspire to, sure, but there's a lot of ground to cover.

View Postcomic_sans, on October 31 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

SS, you wanna fight me_  I'm druuuuuunk_____ You could maybe win_!!

#2 Sylhiri

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Posted June 27 2014 - 05:57 PM

View PostTwentyFirstPilot, on June 27 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

Such is tremendously helpful while escaping and while initiating attacks.

I would say it's "ok" at initiating attacks.

[13:14] <nonsiccus_work> uh oh

there's gravy in my keyboard

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[11:18] <+shosca> if you wanna play ar, go play zerker
[11:18] <Hyginos> and if you want to play zerker, go smc
[11:19] <someone> if you want to play sustain, please go and die in hell


#3 Hijinks_The_Turtle

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Posted June 27 2014 - 06:33 PM

So glad the other Predator pilots are writing the guides.  I don't have to deal with it! Yus!  Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha!  Work my minions, work!  Do my bidding for internet cookies!

#4 TwentyFirstPilot

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Posted June 27 2014 - 06:44 PM

View PostHijinks_The_Turtle, on June 27 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

So glad the other Predator pilots are writing the guides.  I don't have to deal with it! Yus!  Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha!  Work my minions, work!  Do my bidding for internet cookies!

Writing this was actually really fun. I'm thinking about doing a few in depth guides on each of the tactics I mentioned.

Aspiring Professional Yolodriver


View PostAmidatelion, on May 24 2014 - 01:36 AM, said:

Yeah, but dude, we are at 1750. As much as we would like to be Professional Yolodrivers like you [Meraple] and Lightangel112, we're not there yet. It's something to aspire to, sure, but there's a lot of ground to cover.

View Postcomic_sans, on October 31 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

SS, you wanna fight me_  I'm druuuuuunk_____ You could maybe win_!!

#5 T_Bird

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Posted June 27 2014 - 08:55 PM

As for the infiltrators cloaking, there is another benefit, you get a speed boost as well.
Infiltrator already is a really fast booster but while cloaked you boost at lightning speed. You won't get far, but great for escaping death as damage won't break cloak.

/Edit

Sample of speed bonus testing.
https://www.youtube....h_v=1-EMRCvS_GA

Edited by T_Bird, June 28 2014 - 06:18 AM.


#6 mmm_yep

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Posted June 27 2014 - 09:12 PM

I don't have the Predator yet but when I do, I hope/expect to jump right into the garbage collector role!

Edited by mmm_yep, June 27 2014 - 09:12 PM.


#7 TwentyFirstPilot

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Posted June 27 2014 - 09:36 PM

View PostT_Bird, on June 27 2014 - 08:55 PM, said:

As for the infiltrators cloaking, there is another benefit, you get a speed boost as well.
Infiltrator already is a really fast booster but while cloaked you boost at lightning speed. You won't get far, but great for escaping death as damage won't break cloak.

Ooh, really_ I didn't know that. I'll update that part of the guide tomorrow.


View Postmmm_yep, on June 27 2014 - 09:12 PM, said:

I don't have the Predator yet but when I do, I hope/expect to jump right into the garbage collector role!

It is so very very fun to unload a Breacher double tap + EOC P combo into the face of some poor sap who thinks those little garages around Bazaar are good places to rep up.

Aspiring Professional Yolodriver


View PostAmidatelion, on May 24 2014 - 01:36 AM, said:

Yeah, but dude, we are at 1750. As much as we would like to be Professional Yolodrivers like you [Meraple] and Lightangel112, we're not there yet. It's something to aspire to, sure, but there's a lot of ground to cover.

View Postcomic_sans, on October 31 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

SS, you wanna fight me_  I'm druuuuuunk_____ You could maybe win_!!

#8 EliteShooter

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Posted June 27 2014 - 11:05 PM

The infil's cloak, don't use it.

Posted Image


#9 T_Bird

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Posted June 28 2014 - 04:12 AM

View PostEliteShooter, on June 27 2014 - 11:05 PM, said:

The infil's cloak, don't use it.

Why not_
It is an excellent escape from death tool.
Has saved me many times when a 1v1 suddenly turns into a 1v2+. Cloak and make a run for it, if you think you been followed drop a scrambler when the fuel runs out and cloak breaks.

Can also be used to rush down escaping enemies (but then you need to make sure you can finish the job as you will be out of fuel when you reach your target).

#10 Sylhiri

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Posted June 28 2014 - 08:18 AM

View PostT_Bird, on June 28 2014 - 04:12 AM, said:

Why not_
It is an excellent escape from death tool.
Has saved me many times when a 1v1 suddenly turns into a 1v2+. Cloak and make a run for it, if you think you been followed drop a scrambler when the fuel runs out and cloak breaks.

Can also be used to rush down escaping enemies (but then you need to make sure you can finish the job as you will be out of fuel when you reach your target).

You lose your ability to cloak for sneak attacks. Mechs like Scout and Raider will easily destroy you if you try to escape them since you run out of fuel faster, even mechs with no speed boost can outlast your fuel drain to chase behind you. You can't use it to sneak and escape, if your using it only to escape then that is just missing the point of cloak in the first place. Scrambler doesn't do much when they see you drop it. Against good players using cloak to escape will get you killed.

Also I hope your not adding the fuel regen from your internal in that video because you did get hit.

[13:14] <nonsiccus_work> uh oh

there's gravy in my keyboard

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[11:18] <+shosca> if you wanna play ar, go play zerker
[11:18] <Hyginos> and if you want to play zerker, go smc
[11:19] <someone> if you want to play sustain, please go and die in hell


#11 T_Bird

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Posted June 28 2014 - 11:53 AM

View PostSylhiri, on June 28 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:

You lose your ability to cloak for sneak attacks.
Yes, But EliteShooter kind off suggested not to use it at all, ever.

View PostSylhiri, on June 28 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:

Mechs like Scout and Raider will easily destroy you if you try to escape them since you run out of fuel faster
True, you wont escape a "blitzing" raider due to insane speed and ability to shoot while blitzing. And most likely you wont escape a scout either, but there are plenty of other mechs that you can outrun.

View PostSylhiri, on June 28 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:

... even mechs with no speed boost can outlast your fuel drain to chase behind you.
Well, by the time you run out of fuel (in about 6 seconds if boosting while cloaked) you should be either out of radar range or re-grouped with your team.

View PostSylhiri, on June 28 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:

You can't use it to sneak and escape, if your using it only to escape then that is just missing the point of cloak in the first place.
True, you cant use both in the same simultaneously. As for my play style I would estimate that the ratio between avoided deaths (due to cloak) vs successful kills (due to cloak) would be like 60% avoided deaths and 40% successful kills.

View PostSylhiri, on June 28 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:

Against good players using cloak to escape will get you killed.
I assume the target group for this guide are for new players, either new to the game, or new to the stealth mechs (Inf + Pred).
For me with only 65 hours in game and MMR pending between 1650 - 1750 it works like a sharm. So good that I even consider replenshier internal on some maps.

#12 TwentyFirstPilot

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Posted June 28 2014 - 11:58 AM

View PostT_Bird, on June 28 2014 - 11:53 AM, said:

I assume the target group for this guide are for new players, either new to the game, or new to the stealth mechs (Inf + Pred).
For me with only 65 hours in game and MMR pending between 1650 - 1750 it works like a sharm. So good that I even consider replenshier internal on some maps.

That's the case, yes.

Aspiring Professional Yolodriver


View PostAmidatelion, on May 24 2014 - 01:36 AM, said:

Yeah, but dude, we are at 1750. As much as we would like to be Professional Yolodrivers like you [Meraple] and Lightangel112, we're not there yet. It's something to aspire to, sure, but there's a lot of ground to cover.

View Postcomic_sans, on October 31 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

SS, you wanna fight me_  I'm druuuuuunk_____ You could maybe win_!!

#13 Sylhiri

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Posted June 28 2014 - 12:45 PM

View PostT_Bird, on June 28 2014 - 11:53 AM, said:

I assume the target group for this guide are for new players, either new to the game, or new to the stealth mechs (Inf + Pred).
For me with only 65 hours in game and MMR pending between 1650 - 1750 it works like a sharm. So good that I even consider replenshier internal on some maps.

I do believe that Elite posted not to use it was because of high tier. The higher you go the less useful it is to the point where it may be detrimental to use it. For new players it might be wise to give some information so they don't rely on it while playing in the lower tiers as it can be very effective at that level.

[13:14] <nonsiccus_work> uh oh

there's gravy in my keyboard

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[11:18] <+shosca> if you wanna play ar, go play zerker
[11:18] <Hyginos> and if you want to play zerker, go smc
[11:19] <someone> if you want to play sustain, please go and die in hell


#14 SoldierHobbes11

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Posted June 28 2014 - 03:50 PM

View PostSylhiri, on June 28 2014 - 12:45 PM, said:

View PostT_Bird, on June 28 2014 - 11:53 AM, said:

I assume the target group for this guide are for new players, either new to the game, or new to the stealth mechs (Inf + Pred).
For me with only 65 hours in game and MMR pending between 1650 - 1750 it works like a sharm. So good that I even consider replenshier internal on some maps.

I do believe that Elite posted not to use it was because of high tier. The higher you go the less useful it is to the point where it may be detrimental to use it. For new players it might be wise to give some information so they don't rely on it while playing in the lower tiers as it can be very effective at that level.
True, while the cloak may only fool lower tier players, the ability still has usage in higher tier play. The main advantage you can still use in higher level play with the ability is to quickly flank enemies while staying off their radars.

However when it comes to piloting any mech, I highly suggest players learn to fight without having to rely on a mech's ability too often in order to make kills. If a player can learn to be dangerous in a mech without using the ability, it'll make them EVEN MORE deadly when they do decide to use it.
Need help with Hawken_ Click here for my Handy Hawken Handbook!

#15 Sylhiri

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Posted June 28 2014 - 04:20 PM

View PostSoldierHobbes11, on June 28 2014 - 03:50 PM, said:

True, while the cloak may only fool lower tier players, the ability still has usage in higher tier play. The main advantage you can still use in higher level play with the ability is to quickly flank enemies while staying off their radars.

The problem with cloak is that it's effectiveness is entirely dependent on the enemy, there really is nothing you can personally do to make it better, it just is what it is.

[13:14] <nonsiccus_work> uh oh

there's gravy in my keyboard

----------------------------------------------------------------------

[11:18] <+shosca> if you wanna play ar, go play zerker
[11:18] <Hyginos> and if you want to play zerker, go smc
[11:19] <someone> if you want to play sustain, please go and die in hell





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