14 replies to this topic

[ForeverHappy]

Hi

For starters, lovely game.

As for the discouragment, as a new player why do we have to match up with players having over powered mechs compared to us_

I am gonna give this game a try even though I have to hit 8-15 times more than what the enemies has to do onto me.....! This favours ONLY the long time player and really frustratingly discourages new players.

I thought this was more  of a skill based game with a tad bit of RPG flavour. Seems to me that when you hit "level 60" on this game its a cakewalk destroying new players regardless of skill =/

Well this is my feedback, hope it helps you adjusting the game for us new players, your potentially new revenue.

[comic_sans]

Just to clarify, no matter what level you're at, you do the same damage.  A new player with any mech can do the same amount of damage as a player who's been playing since day 1 in the same mech.

[Moreapples]

Edit: Ninja'd

Edited by Moreapples, August 16 2014 - 03:11 PM.

[nokari]

This is a misconception. Different mechs are not overpowered. This is not a game of vertical progression, but of skill. Each mech has pros and cons and a lot of them share the same primary or secondary weapon as the one you start with. None of them deal extra damage based on the pilot's level or experience.

Player level has no effect on power and it only tops out at 30. If you reach 30, you'll find out that there are tons of people at that level who are terrible. It's just a way of unlocking free things within the game, all which don't have any functional effect and are only cosmetic.

Edited by nokari, August 16 2014 - 03:13 PM.

[EM1O]

keep cracking at it. usually you will be teamed up with folks at your skill level, and the system gets slightly better (i'm gonna get flamed for this) as it accumulates data about your play characteristics.
you will see it mentioned as MMR. in your game window open the player list, and Friend "Scrimbot"
click on Scrimbot and open Chat, then type in MMR. starting rank is 1500. that will give you an idea of where you are.
i hang at about 1500 (after nearly 2 years of play) and am lvl 30. don't be fooled--i've had my ass handed to me plenty of times by noobs.
Enjoy, and welcome aboard!
-O

[AsianJoyKiller]

ForeverHappy, on August 16 2014 - 03:07 PM, said:

Hi

For starters, lovely game.

As for the discouragment, as a new player why do we have to match up with players having over powered mechs compared to us_

I am gonna give this game a try even though I have to hit 8-15 times more than what the enemies has to do onto me.....! This favours ONLY the long time player and really frustratingly discourages new players.

I thought this was more  of a skill based game with a tad bit of RPG flavour. Seems to me that when you hit "level 60" on this game its a cakewalk destroying new players regardless of skill =/

Well this is my feedback, hope it helps you adjusting the game for us new players, your potentially new revenue.

Generally, it's not the mech that are overpowered. In fact, the starter mech is really rather decent.
It's that who you're facing is likely more experienced and skilled.

That said, there is a bit of vertical progression and some people may have access to items and internals you do not have access to yet. Things that can heal you faster, or allow a person to dodge in the air.

But these are not insurmountable advantages. Hawken has a steep learning curve, so you just have to keep plugging away. And by the way, just because someone is level 30, it does not mean they are automatically more powerful, or more skilled. Pilot levels are relatively meaningless.

[AsianJoyKiller]

nokari, on August 16 2014 - 03:12 PM, said:

This is not a game of vertical progression, but of skill.

Objectively, there is a certain amount of vertical progression.

Having higher tiers of items and internals, not to mention weapon variants, being both level locked, and require currency, is vertical progression. They do provide advantages, ones that can be overcome, but advantages nonetheless, and against new players those advantages are magnified.

[ticklemyiguana]

ForeverHappy, on August 16 2014 - 03:07 PM, said:

Hi

For starters, lovely game.

As for the discouragment, as a new player why do we have to match up with players having over powered mechs compared to us_

I am gonna give this game a try even though I have to hit 8-15 times more than what the enemies has to do onto me.....! This favours ONLY the long time player and really frustratingly discourages new players.

I thought this was more  of a skill based game with a tad bit of RPG flavour. Seems to me that when you hit "level 60" on this game its a cakewalk destroying new players regardless of skill =/

Well this is my feedback, hope it helps you adjusting the game for us new players, your potentially new revenue.

Believe it or not, this is one of the most well balanced class-based game I have ever played, and I've played a lottt of games. There are certainly some flaws, much of which are contained in the post right above me, and just one or two flaws with balance of the actual mechs.

The CRT recruit is regarded by many as being one of the best mechs in the game. Yes. It looks a little dinky. But, it's able to play and win at almost any engagement. Soon in your playtime, you will begin to see speed and maneuverability to be the dominant factor, and later on you will see teamwork, cooperation, and heavy armor as being the dominant factors- never wholly discounting speed either.

At the level you are at (and I don't mean level 1, 2, or 30, I mean the actual level of play you are at when you first start) there is truly no dominant mech, only dominant players with more experience than you. Yes, you'll face some people with different internals that you don't have access to, and yes, some do have their advantages, but the CRT is built to counter them.

It has decent speed, some pretty high armor for a B class, a very useful ability, and the weapons on it (as many have stated, do no less or more damage than those same weapons on other mechs, regardless of level) are exceptionally versatile. The TOW launcher is a rocket capable of being remote detonated, and on direct impact, can knock most A classes to around 2//3 or even half health. All the primary weapons available for the CRT are solid sustained fire weapons capable of outputting high damage over the course of a firefight.

You will want to make sure that you are manipulating your engagements into more open space so you can land more of those shots. This will change with different mechs, some needing more consistent line of sight, and some relying on only poking around corners after their weapons can fire again. (Many weapons have long cooldowns between shots, certainly much longer than the automatic fire of the assault rifle). So keep playing, you may find this to be one of the best games you ever stuck with.

If you're interested, here's a pretty detailed guide to all the mechs (needs a little updating to account for some additions as of my last reading, but it's still almost entirely relevant).
https://community.pl...or-march-patch/

Edited by ticklemyiguana, August 16 2014 - 03:34 PM.

[EM1O]

also: if you'd like to practice with random mix of players on a Team Death Match, go to Play, Coop Match, Co-op Team Deathmatch.
it's 6vs6, humans vs enemy AI bots. their skill is approx the avg of humans present MMR, so the higher the avg of everyone, the better the play and learning.
this game mode does not affect your actual game MMR, but does earn HC & XP (albeit at a much-reduced rate), ranks up your mech, and is a no-fret way to get a feel for the game, and to try out new Mechs when you really have no Clue.

[ForeverHappy]

Nice community, great fast replies thanks!

Well I will give this game a try, but I'm still not convinced about it being the most well balanced game out there for new players... at least not yet.

Ok some numbers, the difference I've seen is that it takes roughly 10-15 seconds to kill a mech using the CRT, but I've been reduced from 100% to 10% hp just by one shot! and dead withing 4 seconds against only one mech.
Is it possible to do that with CRT against other as well_ Am I missing something like weapons, items or other stuff_ ....or levels to unlock the railguns_ (joke)

Is it only me here on the forums that experience this_ ....Perhaps you guys should create a new account from scratch to test this issue (I'm having) your selves from level 1.
I know 2 others friends that has just picked up this game at the same time as me (today), they also say that this game is somewhat discouraging. Not because of skill and gameplay experience differences, but because of meeting overpowered mechs, the matchmaking in other words. We compare it against world of tanks where it's like a tier 4 tank meets a tier 8 tank =)

But when the matchmaking DO work its great we love it. I usually end up as the top player.... even though this is the first day I've played this game.

This first part above was about overpowered mechs.
Next part below might conceptually help counter the matchmaker issue (which feels like it's kinda random doing its thing)

[EM1O]

no, not 90% hp reduction from one shot. this is what Situational Awareness means. you got team hit, 2 or 3 different weapons or enemies simultaneously. and that should not have reduced you more than 2/3 from the first salvo, with a CRT.
there are weps combos of primary + secondary + an explosive addon item in the first salvo, referred to around here as an Alpha strike, but that rarely knocks you almost dead. it takes another well placed shot or 2 to do kill you, in a B frame mech.
stay behind cover. keep moving. dodge and fire at where the enemy's dodge ends. not at him, where you think he'll wind up at.
Boom!
get in the habit of firing the TOW first then following up with shots from AR. dodge. cover. repeat.
HavaLottaFun!

[Chihuahuan]

EM1O, on August 16 2014 - 05:27 PM, said:

no, not 90% hp reduction from one shot. this is what Situational Awareness means. you got team hit, 2 or 3 different weapons or enemies simultaneously. and that should not have reduced you more than 2/3 from the first salvo, with a CRT.
there are weps combos of primary + secondary + an explosive addon item in the first salvo, referred to around here as an Alpha strike, but that rarely knocks you almost dead. it takes another well placed shot or 2 to do kill you, in a B frame mech.
stay behind cover. keep moving. dodge and fire at where the enemy's dodge ends. not at him, where you think he'll wind up at.
Boom!
get in the habit of firing the TOW first then following up with shots from AR. dodge. cover. repeat.
HavaLottaFun!

Dang it. I have been playing wrong for months. I should have discover the forums sooner. Also a pred firing a eoc repeater + eoc pred + detonator can really knock down a mech's health if all the shots land. As I know, since I main the pred

[BurnsHot]

I think what the OP is talking about is Burst vs Sustained weapons.  If you are not familiar with the terms its simple.  Burst weapons do ALL potential damage in one Instant.  With sustained weapons like the rifle and machine gun, you have to track your enemy and keep firing as it wears down their Health.

He is probably going up against Infiltrators, scouts, etc and I can total sympathize with him that it feels like 4 to 5 seconds (or Burst) and you are dead.

You could test drive different Mechs and that will allow you to play with the different weapons.  I think you can test drive up to 3 different ones.  Hopefully you can test drive one of those annoying Mechs that seem to be able to kill you so easily.  Maybe choose one with a Burst type weapon, which are the ones that are not rifles or machine guns.

You might find them more difficult to use, because now its more important to land each shot.  It's a part of the balance in the game between Sustained weapons and Burst weapons.

As far as the CRT goes, I highly recommend switching out the rifle to the SMC.  I think the SMC is the sweet spot for sustained fire weapons.  It is better at mid range to close quarters and has very good DPS.  I cant tell you the exact numbers but I believe the rifle has less DPS due to it's longer effective range.

If you haven't already discovered it, most of your fights will be mid range or close quarters.

[LONEDEADWOLF]

It is not a perfect game but no one mech has a big advantage over another.....weapons are very unique and can take a while to figure out...practice with bots and you will see how the weapons play and track friends on the field and see how they use them..also there are awesome Veteran players who skills are those of GOD's...Watch them play on YouTube and you will see just how awesome that TV mech is......
also WELCOME to HAWKEN!!!

[EM1O]

i have been working for days at trying to master the Technician. I leveled it up, but i'm still a slob with it. what i (surprisingly) seem to be gifted at is Vampire kills. i've been criticized by teammates for being too "aggressive" while getting compliments for excellent life-saving. i think i just might be getting the Hang of it.
Play on dude, enjoy the game, and havalottafun. i've been here for 20 or so months, and still have much to learn!
O

oh as for that Gawd Level Skilz: google Hawken, Xacius, streams.
you shall be well rewarded!