35 replies to this topic

[MechFighter5e3bf9]

Flifang, on September 19 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

I voted incinerator because it's bulky, it's fast, and it does too much fuzzy bunny damage. Actually, I'm fine with it's damage but the fact that almost all of it is aoe and that it can inevitably sustain it makes it a team roller. I have witnessed the mere presence of a lone incinerator make an ENTIRE team flee. And what's even worse is they all flee in the same direction in a straight line. Or one guy stands there takes the aoe and shares it with teammates around him trying for dear life to get past.
I don't play incinerator often unless the enemy team has at least two of their own because I got so tired of how broken the darn thing is.

muhahahaha yes i have partook in this experience many times

Edited by MechFighter5e3bf9, September 20 2014 - 04:40 AM.

[TwentyFirstPilot]

Amidatelion, on September 19 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

Not really, as versatility often leads to a confusion of purpose: there's so much you can do that your options cloud your view of what needs to be done. The inability to see a tree for the forest, if you will.

It also leads to a user confusion between ability and execution... just because you are able to do something doesn't mean you can. Sure, you are able to take that Scout in a straight up match because of good mobility and good HP. But that doesn't mean you can. You start the fight and the scout pulls you into a cornerplay duel and you lose.

Versatility is a plethora of theoretical attributes that you can apply to an objective, whereas the quality of overpoweredness is a practical application of one or more attributes. And even with all its theoretically good attributes, the application of any up to all of them does not lead to a state of overpoweredness in the Assault.

Merl made a good point last night in a discussion: the Assault shouldn't exist with the CRT. He had a different logic behind it, but in my opinion the Assault is only over-powered relative to the CRT and that is more a failing of the CRT. Sure, the CRT is better at a few things and worse in others, but none of the things that it is better at have a practical application. The larger radar range and better fuel tank are things that any experienced pilot in an Assault does not need because they can circumvent them via good teamplay and not goddamn boosting all over the place. And the better overheat recovery is fuzzing pointless on a mech whose ability is putting off overheating. The Assault isn't overpowered, the CRT is underpowered in vis-a-vis the Assault and vice versa. Disclaimer: the CRT is still a perfectly viable and versatile mech, it is only in regards to the Assault that it isn't. In the wider meta they are functionally identical.

Honestly, I think the Assault is the best balanced mech in the game and it is because so many other mechs are imbalanced one way or another and to varying degrees that we think it's over-powered. If the balanced present in the Assault were present in other mechs, we'd have a very different viewpoint on it.

tl;dr: its not over-powered, it's balanced and everything else is imbalanced in some direction or another

That's an interesting way to look at things. I'm not sure if I'd agree or disagree.

[m0bieduck]

comic_sans, on September 19 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

I'd argue a vulcan gren can pull the most weight in the most situations, right now.  If you can get 2 nades on or near a scout, they're toast.  If you can get the incin before he spins up or kite with the nade for a bit, he's gone.  Preds are their own weird problem and your mileage may vary.

+69
You and he stoned are so annoying in Vulcan gren, its soo op. Also, pred is the 2nd best

[ThatDamnedBoedy]

The devs were heading in a certain direction with mechs like the incinerator which synergized with other mechs.  However since the older mechs haven't been updated and the abortion called the G2 raider was introduced we haven't seen anything in the way of tweaks.  I'd love to see the scout's heat capacity swapped with the brawler.  Then I think its in the right neighborhood.

As to the gren...I still have to figure that mech out better.  I think I'm gonna like the heat cannon version when I get there as its special seems like it will do well with that weapon for breaking up groups.

[ThatDamnedBoedy]

The Assault is basically the CRT on amphetamines and it was my favorite for a long time.  Great all purpose mech.  The scout with the big flak is absolutely a terror...rather see it given something like the Hawken RPR instead.  The Reaper is alright but too many noobs use it in siege and basically result in throwing the game because they never get on the aa to help control it...but its a good mech overall.

The Rocketteer is abusive on maps like last eco and bunker...but is otherwise decent. The same goes for the brawler...though admittedly less so since it doesn't have the seeker missile launcher as well.  The Heat Cannon on it can work fantastically as can the EOC repeater...the seeker missile launcher is unique and somewhat OP...but again that depends on the map and how much cover you can use to close the distance.

The Raider is a lot of fun to play and frustrating to come up against.  But overall it is in a good place.  The infiltrator is absolutely devastating but is decent enough on the HP so that a good shot will make it evaporate.

The Vanguard is my absolute favorite with or without a technician.  Good speed, HP and firepower.   When coupled with a good tech pilot is it also murder to come up against.

The Incinerator is absolutely overpowered.  As fast as the Vanguard with more base HP and noticeably more dps and alpha strike.  Not sure how this mech made it past testing without the devs giggling and pointing out that it was a joke.  But it isn't a joke and one can imagine a team of 6 of these riding up your fuzzy bunny.

The Predator is a niche mech.  It is a spectacular assassin but only the best pilots can really duel with it successfully repeatedly.  The lack of sustained DPS or large burst.  The T32 bolt is kind of underwhelming to me...but I do suck with it so that is probably my problem.  Everything else works alright.

The Sharpshooter can be great at CQC and excels with a great amount of practice.  Good situation awareness lets you keep behind your team and never really have to face serious incoming damage.  Definitely the least OP mech out there if there ever was one.

The Berserker is absolutely a YOLO driver's delight.  20% damage amp on the tow rocket and the point D or the Sub-machine cannon is dps jesus.  

The Brawler needs its heat capacity expanded...but it is rather lovely to use with a tech and some repair orbs.

The Tech is the mech that upsets the entire balance.  It can solo and amp its armor eating ability OR it can repair the more tenacious mechs.  It used to be worse but it can still be frustrating since the armor destruction alt fire is also sticky thus requiring less skill to kill with.  Plus it has unbelievable range.  It should probably be tweaked a little bit.

The G2 Assault is fun and the XT's are accurate at a longer range than the normal vulcans giving it a bit more medium range punch which does make up for some of the dps drop over the vanilla assault.  

The G2 Raider is an abortion.  Yeah it hits like a truck...if and when it hits.  I've come across some good pilots but it honestly makes a pilot work harder for a kill than almost any other.  That Corsair KLA XT does hit like a truck but at a 3.75 sec reload if you miss...you're probably dead.

[MomOw]

I vote for incin', to much for the mech itself but because of its insane symbiosis with the tech.
(By the way I luv' to lick that hot mech with my techie sticky helix tongue)

[Sylhiri]

ThatDamnedBoedy, on September 20 2014 - 11:33 PM, said:

The devs were heading in a certain direction with mechs...

Holy ****, the devs had a direction_!

[ThatDamnedBoedy]

Sylhiri, on September 21 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

ThatDamnedBoedy, on September 20 2014 - 11:33 PM, said:

The devs were heading in a certain direction with mechs...

Holy ****, the devs had a direction_!

yep right up until they were all 'let go' or left of their own accord.

[Sylhiri]

ThatDamnedBoedy, on September 21 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

yep right up until they were all 'let go' or left of their own accord.

But it really didn't seem like they had a direction at all, most of the mechs they produced after closed beta looked like they were thinking of "wow this should be fun" or "you know what would be totally cool". The only real attempts I see for any kind of balance was Raider and Incincerator as poor attempts to break up the deathball problem that has plagued Hawken since the beginning, both attempts failed. A large part of those mechs failing was because of the first mech they produced outside of Closed Beta, the casual friendly Technician (which is really funny because the Raider and Incinerator became the front runners of most deathballs during their metas). So many experimental changes they made and the lack of good patch testing looks like they ran in too many directions at once.

Currently the biggest problem I see is the Incinerator, it has a large effect on the current meta. Overall, in the grand scale of Hawken, the Technician is the devil. I don't think the Scout has ****ed up a meta enough to be even close to the amount the Technician has.

[phed]

Sylhiri, on September 21 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

ThatDamnedBoedy, on September 21 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

yep right up until they were all 'let go' or left of their own accord.

But it really didn't seem like they had a direction at all, most of the mechs they produced after closed beta looked like they were thinking of "wow this should be fun" or "you know what would be totally cool". The only real attempts I see for any kind of balance was Raider and Incincerator as poor attempts to break up the deathball problem that has plagued Hawken since the beginning, both attempts failed. A large part of those mechs failing was because of the first mech they produced outside of Closed Beta, the casual friendly Technician (which is really funny because the Raider and Incinerator became the front runners of most deathballs during their metas). So many experimental changes they made and the lack of good patch testing looks like they ran in too many directions at once.

Currently the biggest problem I see is the Incinerator, it has a large effect on the current meta. Overall, in the grand scale of Hawken, the Technician is the devil. I don't think the Scout has ****ed up a meta enough to be even close to the amount the Technician has.

i agree, but the reaper was first, tech was the second mech release after beta opened.

[Sylhiri]

phed, on September 21 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

i agree, but the reaper was first, tech was the second mech release after beta opened.

Ah, I had it confused due to that whole advertisement thing about the Technician from a while back:

https://community.pl...ametrailers-tv/

Completely forgot about the Reaper, it's impact was pretty underpowered (which is better then overpowered).

[phed]

Yeah, the reaper was so weak when it was introduced that it felt like a joke.  

Unfortunately it seems like the devs took that fuzzy bunny to heart with their later releases (g2's not withstanding).

[Flifang]

Makes me sad how many people trash the g2 raider when they have no idea how fuzzy bunny stupidly powerful it is in the right hands. I'm pretty good with it, but not as good as someone out there is if they would just pick it up. it's gonna take a g2 raider master for people to see its worth. maybe then it will seem like a doable prospect in getting the 500 g2 raiders killed emblem.

I still stand firm in my belief of the incinerator. I guess the mech itself is not overpowered, but its reputation is and this causes all but the MOST experienced players to flee from it, even when they have superior numbers. And another thing,
I would like to dispel the idea that a technician can out heal two mechs focus firing their ally being healed. It's so stupid how five people will run from a tech and other duo just because they pop their green beam.

[phed]

phed, on September 19 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

It's all alphabetical -from memory! Ha!

my memory sucks, just realized i didn't have tech in the list >__<

[ThatDamnedBoedy]

The G2 Raider is great.  but it still makes you work a lot harder for kills.  Although sometimes that is just dependent on the team itself.  If you have a good team that is constantly flushing people from cover...you can capitalize.  Or if your team helps you corner people so you can blast em it works too.  The T32's range is decent when charged but altogether sucks when spammed.  

It does pay to be patient with lining up your shots with the G2 Raider. On the other hand...combat can very often be frantic and aside from when its special is active the G2 Raider is slow as heck.  It works well with a tech however. Prolongs its combat abilities quite a bit.

[OmegaNull]

Scout is awesome but it is nowhere near as powerful as people think it is. Once you learn how to actually AIM, it makes it hard. I would say Assault ATM is the most balanced. Most powerful is pred but it balances out with how hard it is. Incin is only strong in team games.

Side: G2 Raider makes my junk turn inside out and retreat. fuzzy bunny thing scares the fuzzy bunny out of me.

Edited by OmegaNull, September 28 2014 - 11:42 AM.